Author Topic: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread  (Read 1800185 times)

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Offline mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #30025 on: April 23, 2019, 10:50:29 pm »
I would just like to apologise to anyone's bank balances affected by my enthusiasm for this stuff  :-DD

HP 200A: http://hpmemoryproject.org/wa_pages/wall_a_page_01.htm

Kind of the holy grail of TE.
Now I know what a 200A is thanks for clearing that up, I've come across that feedback technique somewhere before on You Tube, it might well have been your favourite (batten down the hatches here on this one) Paul Carson on Mr Carson's Lab.

Yup. Now you know where he snurched it from. And, indirectly, where the idea probably originated from for everybody alive who's ever used a dim-bulb tester. ;)

mnem
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Offline bd139

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #30026 on: April 23, 2019, 10:57:41 pm »

On to purchase list:

1. HP counter
2. HP scope
3. HP signal generator
4. HP analogue voltmeter (427A)

Am I a fanboy?
Just saw a a fine looking one on continental Ebay.
And I don't want to dangle the 4261A before your nose, as it is sure that it will become redundant in the near future, but the timeframe is not yet decided.

Thanks for the heads up on the 427A!  I have sent the seller a message asking if he will post to England. My German isnt great so I wonder if he’ll respond  :-DD
 

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #30027 on: April 23, 2019, 10:58:17 pm »
Nah, you mericans have got it all wrong, life is precious and is worth saving, you should all campaign for better from your governments, after all, you can't work to pay your taxes unless you're fit and well. No work, no pay, no spending, no profits, no taxes and that vicious circle could be stopped if your health system was like our NHS, free at the point of delivery.
While I understand certainly the argument for change concerning the U.S. (as I do to a certain degree for their distractors), I would rather not suggest that they replace 'rotten' with 'broken'. It will not work properly until a compulsory system of insurance is coupled to any job. And payed by both parties to that contract. After that they can judge if they have enough to provide the remainder for free.
The problem with insurance as you describe it is that you have to have a job in the first place and not everyone has a job or indeed maybe either of employable age or well enough, or even retired, so what happens then? What happens if a natural disaster happens, are going to check everybody for insurance first? Failure to act in some instances could well lead to national epidemic that without prompt action in all known cases cause for worse things, like the Black Death. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Death
Who let Murphy in?
 

Online Neomys Sapiens

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #30028 on: April 23, 2019, 11:10:11 pm »

On to purchase list:

1. HP counter
2. HP scope
3. HP signal generator
4. HP analogue voltmeter (427A)

Am I a fanboy?
Just saw a a fine looking one on continental Ebay.
And I don't want to dangle the 4261A before your nose, as it is sure that it will become redundant in the near future, but the timeframe is not yet decided.

Thanks for the heads up on the 427A!  I have sent the seller a message asking if he will post to England. My German isnt great so I wonder if he’ll respond  :-DD
Feel free to contact me for assistance in communication. Also for trans-shipping, if necessary.
 
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Online med6753

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #30029 on: April 23, 2019, 11:13:08 pm »
After something slightly older if I'm honest. Without hybrids in it. Possibly HP 180 series: https://www.hpl.hp.com/hpjournal/pdfs/IssuePDFs/1966-08.pdf

Used the 180 in mainframe test of IBM S/370-3158. They worked well but a lot of techs didn't like them because they were used to Tek. The 180's were replaced with 475A/DM44's about 1978 or so.
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Online Neomys Sapiens

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #30030 on: April 23, 2019, 11:29:21 pm »
Nah, you mericans have got it all wrong, life is precious and is worth saving, you should all campaign for better from your governments, after all, you can't work to pay your taxes unless you're fit and well. No work, no pay, no spending, no profits, no taxes and that vicious circle could be stopped if your health system was like our NHS, free at the point of delivery.
While I understand certainly the argument for change concerning the U.S. (as I do to a certain degree for their distractors), I would rather not suggest that they replace 'rotten' with 'broken'. It will not work properly until a compulsory system of insurance is coupled to any job. And payed by both parties to that contract. After that they can judge if they have enough to provide the remainder for free.
The problem with insurance as you describe it is that you have to have a job in the first place and not everyone has a job or indeed maybe either of employable age or well enough, or even retired, so what happens then? What happens if a natural disaster happens, are going to check everybody for insurance first? Failure to act in some instances could well lead to national epidemic that without prompt action in all known cases cause for worse things, like the Black Death. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Death
As far as natural disasters and pandemics are concerned, the U.S. are not worse of than either of our countries, because the govenment can take control of all and any resources it needs once such a situation is declared.
But how to build a sustainable system of health insurance is a different topic. They started here in 18umpteen with the workforce, then extending it to their dependents and pensioners. It is mandatory, but it is not the state that pays for it - it rather defined the legal framework, under which the providers must operate. Then, when such a system is in place, the state could pick up the burden to care for those left outside.
 

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #30031 on: April 23, 2019, 11:34:47 pm »

On to purchase list:

1. HP counter
2. HP scope
3. HP signal generator
4. HP analogue voltmeter (427A)

Am I a fanboy?
Any idea yet which model or generation that should be?
And why did you omit the pulse generator? To say nothing of the.....(taking cover now)
 

Offline bitseeker

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #30032 on: April 23, 2019, 11:37:54 pm »
Wait'll he sees what's waiting for him at his local PO...  >:D


Yup, I got it! The exterior box was pretty banged up, but the inner layer(s) were pristine. Thank you, mnem! Also, the 3DP cover is very cool. :-+

Now, I need to find a cozy spot for it and get some probes that won't suffocate it. Then, I can start re-learning how to use an analog scope. ^-^

So, mnem, what is the ubiquitous intermittent HV fault that you mentioned in https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/msg1528642/#msg1528642 (almost a year ago)?
« Last Edit: April 23, 2019, 11:54:03 pm by bitseeker »
I TEA.
 
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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #30033 on: April 23, 2019, 11:44:06 pm »
Ok, those probe power outlets on the FRONT are a definive plus compared to those offered as options on the REAR for the later models. Because the cables on the active probes, when connected that way, become somewhat short overall.

And now I understand MNEMs post and pictures - whoa, huge print. I had thought that to be a plaque/label, maybe a screen cover..
 

Offline bitseeker

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #30034 on: April 23, 2019, 11:46:23 pm »
Yeah, I also thought it was a screen cover in the first photos since the 454 is widescreen. Hmm, widescreen CRT. How modern. ;D
I TEA.
 

Offline mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #30035 on: April 24, 2019, 01:59:54 am »
Nah, you mericans have got it all wrong, life is precious and is worth saving, you should all campaign for better from your governments, after all, you can't work to pay your taxes unless you're fit and well. No work, no pay, no spending, no profits, no taxes and that vicious circle could be stopped if your health system was like our NHS, free at the point of delivery.
While I understand certainly the argument for change concerning the U.S. (as I do to a certain degree for their distractors), I would rather not suggest that they replace 'rotten' with 'broken'. It will not work properly until a compulsory system of insurance is coupled to any job. And payed by both parties to that contract. After that they can judge if they have enough to provide the remainder for free.
The problem with insurance as you describe it is that you have to have a job in the first place and not everyone has a job or indeed maybe either of employable age or well enough, or even retired, so what happens then? What happens if a natural disaster happens, are going to check everybody for insurance first? Failure to act in some instances could well lead to national epidemic that without prompt action in all known cases cause for worse things, like the Black Death. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Death
As far as natural disasters and pandemics are concerned, the U.S. are not worse of than either of our countries, because the govenment can take control of all and any resources it needs once such a situation is declared.
But how to build a sustainable system of health insurance is a different topic. They started here in 18umpteen with the workforce, then extending it to their dependents and pensioners. It is mandatory, but it is not the state that pays for it - it rather defined the legal framework, under which the providers must operate. Then, when such a system is in place, the state could pick up the burden to care for those left outside.

Not worse, eh? Ask the citizens of Puerto Rico about that. Or my own town (as abhorrent as it may be) of Houston... how it is that a single corrupt man can steal the Disaster Relief monies procured for both and use them to built a private militia on the border for the singular purpose of terrorizing poor brown people so they don't show up at the polls.

You're talking about the difference between Universal Healthcare and Single Payer. Single payer, essentially what you espouse, is just a BS stopgap to KEEP basic medical care for-profit. That by definition makes it literally a death sentence (for sure an early death for many) to be poor and old.

We used to understand on a fundamental level the need for basic "public services". In this age of plenty, the idea that it is somehow okay for the poor, disabled or old to die simply because they no longer make money for the privileged few is abhorrent. It is also a core principal of the corporate mentality; the idea that people are disposable but profit is not.

mnem
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« Last Edit: April 24, 2019, 02:07:46 am by mnementh »
 
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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #30036 on: April 24, 2019, 02:02:09 am »
Not that I want to encourage anyone to get a 427A but the one I won at auction last week (55USD, shipped) with the original manual and a power cord, arrived today.



It is in pretty good mechanical shape except for the obviously badly replaced meter cover. Inside looks good, too, other than that suspect 0.1mfd 600V capacitor down there. 







Powered it up. AC performance is, well, terrible. The meter bounces all over the place and the only readings that are near right are in the low voltage ranges at 1MHz. DC performance is good. Resistance performance is good. I will probably fix this one before I tackle the 400EL which appears to be in much worse shape.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2019, 02:14:06 am by wch »
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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #30037 on: April 24, 2019, 02:08:49 am »

On to purchase list:

1. HP counter
2. HP scope
3. HP signal generator
4. HP analogue voltmeter (427A)

Am I a fanboy?
Just saw a a fine looking one on continental Ebay.
And I don't want to dangle the 4261A before your nose, as it is sure that it will become redundant in the near future, but the timeframe is not yet decided.

Thanks for the heads up on the 427A!  I have sent the seller a message asking if he will post to England. My German isnt great so I wonder if he’ll respond  :-DD
Feel free to contact me for assistance in communication. Also for trans-shipping, if necessary.

Poor bd139 seems he has no choice to buy one and join the 427A club  :-DD Not sure what the online manuals are like but I have a good quality paper one if anyone wants bits scanned.

Should we start a specific thread?
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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #30038 on: April 24, 2019, 02:52:11 am »
Randomness from an Evilbay search for used 'Multimeter' and this turned up. Seller has what appears to be 3 HP 427A meter movements not listed as such :o eBay auction: #223064574713 Not cheap but if you need a movement worth an enquiry. Same Glass as my 419A too.



More Randomness Freight is way to much for me but some CHEAP Dana Nixie Multimeter eBay auction: #123359545699

« Last Edit: April 24, 2019, 02:56:29 am by beanflying »
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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #30039 on: April 24, 2019, 03:34:57 am »
This was on my bench when I got home today...





I dunno, do you think my wife has noticed my infatuation with Tektronix gear?  :-DD
specialization is for insects.
 
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Offline mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #30040 on: April 24, 2019, 04:33:20 am »
Wait'll he sees what's waiting for him at his local PO...  >:D
Yup, I got it! The exterior box was pretty banged up, but the inner layer(s) were pristine. Thank you, mnem! Also, the 3DP cover is very cool. :-+

Now, I need to find a cozy spot for it and get some probes that won't suffocate it. Then, I can start re-learning how to use an analog scope. ^-^

So, mnem, what is the ubiquitous intermittent HV fault that you mentioned in https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/msg1528642/#msg1528642 (almost a year ago)?

IIRC (this was quite some while back; when it was my only working 'scope) I brought it up in the Anatek forums and was told this was a common failure mode; the carbon composite resistors in the HV would shift value and cause excessive loading in the caps, eventually breaking them down. This requires a rebuild of the resistor array and replacing HV caps in the HV doubler, as well as sometimes the resistors and pot in the grid bias circuit. Plus of course the usual seek & destroy of leaking electrolytics throughout. I think this one predated tants but probably had a few suspect jelly-roll caps; not positive though.

Supposedly, the same fault was common in the 453 as well, but as it used hybrid hollow-state/solid-state rectification, it only caused the screen to collapse rather than intermittently blowing fuses like the all solid-state 454.

The problem is... I'm not positive as I never actually fixed the thing. I just kept replacing fuses every once in a while until I got my 2465 back online... then I kept the 454 as a backup until I got my EX-NASA 2465. When I rebuilt my 2230, the 454 pretty much went in the closet never to return to active duty.  :-[

I've been searching and searching and I can't find any of that older stuff... I'm sure there's oodles of discussion on it in alt.sci.repair too, but I long ago fell out the habit and no longer even know of a working portal with access since the Purge of '08.

Manual with schematics is here: http://bama.edebris.com/download/tek/454/tek%20454.pdf



I'm glad you got it in one piece; that was why I decided to print up a cover for it. I literally spent half a day trying to think of a way I could reasonably expect it to make it all the way there without one or more delicate knobs getting effed up... in the end I realized there was no other way.

   

So I spent another afternoon designing it, and then had some issues with my printer not liking the Gcode and randomly trying to print the damned thing at like 60% scale one time and then 100% the next... And THEN it FINALLY printed successfully... and I put it on the floor and STOOD ON IT with all my 300 lbs.  :scared:

And it HELD.  : :-+ So once I touched up the inside corners with a heat gun to get a moderate press-fit on the 454's outer bezel, I declared success and took a few victory pics, and it was time to pack up my old beast...  :-[

After med's tale of a Euckered CRT spooked me; for all you naysayers, I not only DOUBLE-BOXED it... with layers of bubble-wrap and a whole year's worth of accumulated Amazon bubble-mailers... I TRIPLE-BOXED it.  :box: 

MAXIM 37: "There is no 'overkill.' There is only 'open fire' and 'I need to reload'... this into yet another box." :-DD


You all have NO IDEA how hard it was for me NOT to plaster the thread with all these pics, as I checked in on it over a day and a half:

1) A good start...
2) Good inner face and walls...
3) Almost...
4) Done! Now... to wait an hour for it to cool completely so I don't rip its face off trying to separate it...  EFF THAT!!! Turn the ceiling fan on high and crank the AC down to 67°F!!! 30 minutes of snap, crackle, pop later... it jumped off by itself right into my hot little hands!  >:D
5) I totally eyeball-measured the location of this slot for the latch-catch... I got it pretty close. But the depth I deliberately got just right so you COULD add spring-steel hooks to snap onto these catches.  :-+
6) However, I did NOT make allowances for the rubber feet that belong here. That didn't even dawn on me until it was halfway through the print.  :palm: I still don't care; I'm dead-chuffed with the results, because:
7) MONEY SHOT!!!  :clap:

mnem
Thank you for giving this beast a good home; may you both live long and prosper!  :-+


« Last Edit: April 24, 2019, 03:16:21 pm by mnementh »
 
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Offline mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #30041 on: April 24, 2019, 04:43:40 am »
This was on my bench when I got home today...       I dunno, do you think my wife has noticed my infatuation with Tektronix gear?  :-DD

I think she has crossed over from "Keeper" to "Enabler" status, just like mine.  :-DD

mnem
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« Last Edit: April 24, 2019, 04:53:19 am by mnementh »
 

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #30042 on: April 24, 2019, 04:55:02 am »
Real nice front cover mnem.  :clap:
You need flick that 3DP file through to Bean's thread.  :)
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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #30043 on: April 24, 2019, 04:57:59 am »
Wait'll he sees what's waiting for him at his local PO...  >:D


Yup, I got it! The exterior box was pretty banged up, but the inner layer(s) were pristine. Thank you, mnem! Also, the 3DP cover is very cool. :-+

Now, I need to find a cozy spot for it and get some probes that won't suffocate it. Then, I can start re-learning how to use an analog scope. ^-^

So, mnem, what is the ubiquitous intermittent HV fault that you mentioned in https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/msg1528642/#msg1528642 (almost a year ago)?

That is a beautiful bit of TEA right there.  :-+ It's interesting how you can sort of follow the evolution of the design from the earlier 5xx scopes, to this 454, to the 465 etc. This one has the basic layout but still has the "Type 454" designation and other older details.
 

Offline mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #30044 on: April 24, 2019, 05:14:14 am »
Real nice front cover mnem.  :clap:
You need flick that 3DP file through to Bean's thread.  :)

Thanks!

Yeah, I know. I need to get him to kibbutz with me on it too; I made a fundamental eff-up on it that I only fixed after the fact, and wanted a second opinion on how to make it right. It's on my agenda for tomorrow.  :-+

mnem
*Toddles off to ded*  :=\
 

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #30045 on: April 24, 2019, 05:20:28 am »
Real nice front cover mnem.  :clap:
You need flick that 3DP file through to Bean's thread.  :)

Thanks!

Yeah, I know. I need to get him to kibbutz with me on it too; I made a fundamental eff-up on it that I only fixed after the fact, and wanted a second opinion on how to make it right. It's on my agenda for tomorrow.  :-+

mnem
*Toddles off to ded*  :=\

The other obvious question is how many hours on the bed 20+ or not  ;D
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Offline bitseeker

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #30046 on: April 24, 2019, 06:18:04 am »
So, mnem, what is the ubiquitous intermittent HV fault that you mentioned in https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/msg1528642/#msg1528642 (almost a year ago)?

IIRC (this was quite some while back; when it was my only working 'scope) I brought it up in the Anatek forums and was told this was a common failure mode; the carbon composite resistors in the HV would shift value and cause excessive loading in the caps, eventually breaking them down. This requires a rebuild of the resistor array and replacing HV caps in the HV doubler, as well as sometimes the resistors and pot in the grid bias circuit. Plus of course the usual seek & destroy of leaking electrolytics throughout. I think this one predated tants but probably had a few suspect jelly-roll caps; not positive though.

Supposedly, the same fault was common in the 453 as well, but as it used hybrid hollow-state/solid-state rectification, it only caused the screen to collapse rather than intermittently blowing fuses like the all solid-state 454.

The problem is... I'm not positive as I never actually fixed the thing. I just kept replacing fuses every once in a while until I got my 2465 back online... then I kept the 454 as a backup until I got my EX-NASA 2465. When I rebuilt my 2230, the 454 pretty much went in the closet never to return to active duty.  :-[

I've been searching and searching and I can't find any of that older stuff... I'm sure there's oodles of discussion on it in alt.sci.repair too, but I long ago fell out the habit and no longer even know of a working portal with access since the Purge of '08.

Manual with schematics is here: http://bama.edebris.com/download/tek/454/tek%20454.pdf

OK. At least that gives me some idea what I'm looking for (and what's going on when the fuse fails again). Thanks for the links.

Quote
I'm glad you got it in one piece; that was why I decided to print up a cover for it. I literally spent half a day trying to think of a way I could reasonably expect it to make it all the way there without one or more delicate knobs getting effed up... in the end I realized there was no other way.

Yep, it worked great! The cover is much beefier than I expected, too. Now, I want a printer. :P

Quote
After med's tale of a Euckered CRT spooked me; for all you naysayers, I not only DOUBLE-BOXED it... with layers of bubble-wrap and a whole year's worth of accumulated Amazon bubble-mailers... I TRIPLE-BOXED it.  :box: 

MAXIM37: "There is no 'overkill.' There is only 'open fire' and 'I need to reload'... this into yet another box." :-DD

Overkill that prevents equipment death is a good thing.

Quote
You all have NO IDEA how hard it was for me NOT to plaster the thread with all these pics, as I checked in on it over a day and a half:

1) A good start...
2) Good inner face and walls...
3) Almost...
4) Done! Now... to wait an hour for it to cool completely so I don't rip its face off trying to separate it...  EFF THAT!!! Turn the ceiling fan on high and crank the AC down to 67°F!!! 30 minutes of snap, crackle, pop later... it jumped off by itself right into my hot little hands!  >:D
5) I totally eyeball-measured the location of this slot for the latch-catch... I got it pretty close. But the depth I deliberately got just right so you COULD add spring-steel hooks to snap onto these catches.  :-+
6) However, I did NOT make allowances for the rubber feet that belong here. That didn't even dawn on me until it was halfway through the print.  :palm: I still don't care; I'm dead-chuffed with the results, because:
7) MONEY SHOT!!!  :clap:

It fits like a glove. Really amazing job. I didn't realize the foot spacing issue, but it's not a showstopper. Bean has a model for the feet, though, which you might be able to use to mod your design.

Quote
Thank you for giving this beast a good home; may you both live long and prosper!  :-+

We shall. We shall. It's the first Tek scope I've owned. :-+
I TEA.
 

Offline bitseeker

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #30047 on: April 24, 2019, 06:19:31 am »
This was on my bench when I got home today...       I dunno, do you think my wife has noticed my infatuation with Tektronix gear?  :-DD

I think she has crossed over from "Keeper" to "Enabler" status, just like mine.  :-DD


I should say so. A good development, indeed.
I TEA.
 

Offline bd139

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #30048 on: April 24, 2019, 06:46:09 am »

On to purchase list:

1. HP counter
2. HP scope
3. HP signal generator
4. HP analogue voltmeter (427A)

Am I a fanboy?
Any idea yet which model or generation that should be?
And why did you omit the pulse generator? To say nothing of the.....(taking cover now)

8640B most likely

@beanflying: On the 427A front I have actually owned two of these already. They were however just bounced to make some money. Now I decide I want to keep one I don’t have one  :palm:
 

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #30049 on: April 24, 2019, 06:58:43 am »

On to purchase list:

1. HP counter
2. HP scope
3. HP signal generator
4. HP analogue voltmeter (427A)

Am I a fanboy?
Any idea yet which model or generation that should be?
And why did you omit the pulse generator? To say nothing of the.....(taking cover now)

8640B most likely

@beanflying: On the 427A front I have actually owned two of these already. They were however just bounced to make some money. Now I decide I want to keep one I don’t have one  :palm:
I can certainly see the appeal, having owned that 1740A but I can't help but think the 427A is a bit boat anchorery for what it does. There is no denying the construction quality of HP gear though.

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