Author Topic: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread  (Read 3035617 times)

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Offline mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #31275 on: May 13, 2019, 11:58:23 pm »
The damage lead does to a developing brain is not "modern PC press garbage." It was discovered literally when I was still in swaddling clothes.

That information was committeed to death for decades before any American health organization took it seriously, and even then only because pretty much the entire rest of the developed world, and half the undeveloped world, kept asking us  :wtf: and "When the holy hell are you gonna do something about this?!?"

ANY LEAD in a developing brain is TOO MUCH. Period. And it's still not good for us old punks with ossified frontal lobes, either.

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Offline mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #31276 on: May 14, 2019, 12:11:27 am »
Had a sudden flashback to getting Sky here and discovering MTV. Type O and Metallica with Beavis and Butthead commentary  :-+ ... black black black black number one ... no way beavis.

Solder: 0.5mm in proper units :)

Apparently my elecraft order has been picked up and will be with me in 18 hours having travelled 5300 miles. Wonder where it’ll go wrong.

Right bed time for me.

0.050"/1.2mm for large wires, 0.032"/0.8mm for everyday SMD, TH & jumpers, 0.020"/0.5mm for small SMD, repairing cracked traces and micro-soldering direct to uPCs. 600-620°F for 60/40 & 63/37, 700°F for lead-free.

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #31277 on: May 14, 2019, 12:17:00 am »
Note that you two seem to be arguing different points. Soldering with lead isn't imminently dangerous, but having it enter the environment or the body in an uncontrolled fashion is. As mnementh says children are especially susceptible to lead hampering and permanently damaging their development. The damage lead can cause is well documented and virtually undisputed. If we disposed of our electronics responsibly it wouldn't be that much of an issue, but unfortunately too much of it ends up in burn pits in third world nations.
 

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #31278 on: May 14, 2019, 12:19:42 am »
Solder: 0.5mm in proper units :)

+1 for 0.5mm
 
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Offline tautech

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #31279 on: May 14, 2019, 12:33:30 am »
The damage lead does to a developing brain is not "modern PC press garbage." It was discovered literally when I was still in swaddling clothes.

That information was committeed to death for decades before any American health organization took it seriously, and even then only because pretty much the entire rest of the developed world, and half the undeveloped world, kept asking us  :wtf: and "When the holy hell are you gonna do something about this?!?"

ANY LEAD in a developing brain is TOO MUCH. Period. And it's still not good for us old punks with ossified frontal lobes, either.

mnem
While you're at it, purge aluminum cookware from your life as well.
Lead itself is not the problem, it's how we use it, handle it and dispose of it !

Yes when I was a kiddie we knew the dangers of lead based paint on toys and that should've flagged us for life as to the dangers of exposure to lead and using it carefully. It did for me.
When removing 80+ years of lead paint from my house some 20 years back we chose to strip it with hot air and a broad knife rather than use the faster method of a 7" pad and #24 grit sanding pads as the prospect of containing the dust was impossible. We had young kids at the time so the risk of contamination was extremely high and unacceptable.
Every substance we come into contact has negatives even such inert ones as glass that can scar and cut us up so much to damage bodily functions for life.

Lead based starter batteries pose a greater risk to the environment but such is their value as scrap most are recycled ATM but one wonders if lead products are on some continual ban list will their scrap value diminish to the point where they won't be recycled ?
Alloy cookware, well yes I've seen the damage that can do to a guy just a year or so older than me.....poor guy has had buggered health for 30+ years.

In years gone by stuff like asbestos cladding was endorsed by gubbermints of the day and it was used on dwellings, schools and industry and worked well for decades. Come to remove it now..........well what a fiasco of legislation one must jump through to even get onto a site where it is. Been there done all that from the fixing of new sheets on schools when I was a chippy in my youth and decades later donned in a white disposable suit and respirator working on a residential site where it had been used as landfill but where a new house was to be.
Talk about one extreme to the other......shit we even had to pass through a double air lock thingy dropping the suit and boots while 2 yards away on the other side of a security fence was the footpath where the locals came to watch dressed in their normal clothes.

Education to risks is the key not to remove risk and personal responsibility by wrapping populations in cotton wool to protect us from ourselves.  ::)

Why would we even get out of bed in the morning to face all the risks life can throw our way ?
Far greater risk of getting killed in a motor accident than all this BS.
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Offline mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #31280 on: May 14, 2019, 12:46:47 am »
While in general I agree with this sentiment, lead is one thing I don't throw in that cauldron. It is as evil as mercury, and much less carefully handled in general.

Bottom line is we don't NEED lead for anything. There are better, safer products for almost everything we use it for. Contamination from batteries arises from the fact that we treat recycling as a BUSINESS, not as the public service it has to be for us to survive as a species. This means that recycled batteries get sent where there aren't any laws protecting people and the environment, recycled in a manner that poisons us all, and then most of that lead gets shipped back to us... all because this is still cheaper than fucking processing it ourselves safely.  |O

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Offline tautech

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #31281 on: May 14, 2019, 01:25:22 am »
While in general I agree with this sentiment, lead is one thing I don't throw in that cauldron. It is as evil as mercury, and much less carefully handled in general.

Bottom line is we don't NEED lead for anything. There are better, safer products for almost everything we use it for. Contamination from batteries arises from the fact that we treat recycling as a BUSINESS, not as the public service it has to be for us to survive as a species. This means that recycled batteries get sent where there aren't any laws protecting people and the environment, recycled in a manner that poisons us all, and then most of that lead gets shipped back to us... all because this is still cheaper than fucking processing it ourselves safely.  |O

mnem
"Oh, I'm gonna be sore in the mornin'..."
Well yes and no.
You might be surprised that a big user of lead is the yachting industry where no other material offers the density of lead for keels at anything like its price point.

My buddy down the road uses lead fill for the hammers in his piling business, some of which are 3+ tonne each.

It'll always be part of our lives whether we like it or not...........oh and how many tonnes of it are driving around world roads as wheel balance weights ?
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Offline bitseeker

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #31282 on: May 14, 2019, 01:43:11 am »
Solder: 0.5mm in proper units :)

0.050"/1.2mm for large wires, 0.032"/0.8mm for everyday SMD, TH & jumpers, 0.020"/0.5mm for small SMD, repairing cracked traces and micro-soldering direct to uPCs. 600-620°F for 60/40 & 63/37, 700°F for lead-free.

Yeah, quite the range. I was leaning toward 1mm, but then thought I'd poll the house. I guess 0.8mm would be the way to go for one-roll-to-rule-them-all. OK for THD without being too large for SMD.

I haven't done a lot of SMD, but when I do, I usually put down some liquid flux. Then, pick up a bit of solder on the iron tip, rather than feed it in as with THD. So, the solder diameter didn't seem super critical for SMD. I guess that might be different for large tabs on things like connectors.
I TEA.
 
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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #31283 on: May 14, 2019, 01:47:24 am »
I use 0.031" for everyday. I have some 0.020" for SMD and my silver solder is 0.025".  Feeding the small stuff reliably on a through hole component was a PITA but it is great for SMD.


I use .7mm or 0.027" for everything electronic and I have a couple of rolls of 1mm for everything else electrical or mechanical.
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Online Specmaster

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #31284 on: May 14, 2019, 01:53:48 am »
I thought it was the Jinhao-branded ones that were supposedly a cheap-cheap copy of the cheap P6100 probes I have which are a cheap-but serviceable copy of a real Tek probe...  :o

mnem
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   Are they the Jinhao-branded ones?

mnem
 :popcorn:

Yes, they are and TBH, I've had zero issues with them at all.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2019, 01:55:24 am by Specmaster »
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Online BravoV

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #31285 on: May 14, 2019, 01:58:17 am »
I thought it was the Jinhao-branded ones that were supposedly a cheap-cheap copy of the cheap P6100 probes I have which are a cheap-but serviceable copy of a real Tek probe...  :o

mnem
*currently searching for the pre-fukt gift on Amazonk*
   Are they the Jinhao-branded ones?

mnem
 :popcorn:
Yes they are and I've had zero problems with them TBH.

Those Jinhao is quite decent, own few pairs of them as they were dirt cheap when bought them from Aliexpress few years ago, to reduce tear & wear of my Tek P6139.

If my memory serves me well, last time I did brief comparison probing at about 150MHz signal with my 2465B, the Tek vs Jinhao were pretty spot on at each other.

Offline bitseeker

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #31286 on: May 14, 2019, 01:59:57 am »
Well, at around $4 a probe, if you get a bad one, it's not a big loss. Keep a few bags around. ;D
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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #31287 on: May 14, 2019, 02:02:39 am »
Well, at around $4 a probe, if you get a bad one, it's not a big loss. ;D

Exactly, sort of disposable, and 4 bucks is quite expensive, I could be wrong, remembered it was sort of 2 bucks if bought in bigger quantity, not many, I bought 5 or 6 pairs, not sure, it was while ago.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2019, 02:05:06 am by BravoV »
 

Offline beanflying

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #31288 on: May 14, 2019, 02:13:13 am »
For Solder Leaded all the way and love my 2% Silver for R/C bullets and big wire. 0.5 and 1mm are my normal and 0.3 on hand when needed.

It is how any e-waste is handled post use is the issue shipping it off to other countries is not an answer.

We have sorted Shotgun shells out which the Duck hunters in particular spray into our water  :-+ http://www.gma.vic.gov.au/education/fact-sheets/non-toxic-shot

Battery Recycling is becoming 'normal' and among others local councils take batteries for nothing. We are still cleaning up industrial sites in all of our major cities where Batteries were made for decades not to mention other numerous pollutants.

We still face modern cockups too https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-03-04/harmful-rise-in-lead-levels-concerning-for-sa-regional-city/10868806

Like it or not Lead is here to stay and there is zero push on the solder front.
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Offline tautech

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #31289 on: May 14, 2019, 02:15:39 am »
Well, at around $4 a probe, if you get a bad one, it's not a big loss. Keep a few bags around. ;D
P6100's and all P**** probes from anywhere have only one source, an obscure company specializing in probes in Yangzhong China.
There are many many rebrands and they've been around for donkeys dicks years.

Took me ages even now to re-find them but heaps longer some years back when I first went looking.
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Online med6753

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #31290 on: May 14, 2019, 02:25:14 am »
While you guys were discussing (arguing?) the environmental impacts of lead I had to open windows to blow the stink out. Pretty big magic smoke release. Been a long time since the last one. Working on a 7A24 plug-in and for some reason the +15V v2 supply on the main board is a solid short to ground. Took out at 3.3mH inductor wound around a 10 ohm resistor in spectacular fashion. Gonna be fun trying to find the source as it supplies over half the board. Oh well.  :-// :-DD

Geez....still stinks in here.  :o   
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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #31291 on: May 14, 2019, 03:22:54 am »
I believe it's a problem caused by improper use rather than a problem with the ESI SV194 B. I took some more accurate measurements and drew a schematic of the unit. As I said, these resistors just don't drift. This divider was designed before modern meters and the calibration of the input against a standard cell and the output voltage were both measured potentiometrically, i.e., no current being drawn. The reason you get lower errors on the lower taps is the parallel resistance of the meter used and the internal resistance it is in parallel with have a lesser effect if you have your 10Mohm meter in parallel with 20 ohm resister rather than across a 4000 ohm resistor.

I think you are right. Part of the confusion came from the first quick test I did with my Prema 5017. This meter drop to 10M impedance on the 20V range. Can only do 10G on the 2V range and lower. This is weird for a 7.5 digit meter  :o

Nevertheless, I found a cable leading to the switch, inside the ESI SV194, that was almost cut-off. Multiple core were broken. So I repaired the cable and cleaned the calibrator.



Just did a proper test and this time I connected my voltage source correctly to the ESI SV194 hooking up the sense terminals. Feeded 1Kv from the voltage source (Fluke 332a) and adjusted the Calibrator to output 10V. The 3456a is probably loading the voltage divider a bit but on the >10G impedance range it's not as bad as 10M. I'm planning to build a buffer to avoid loading my voltage dividers.



By the way, your schematic of the ESI SV194 correspond to the schematic published by ESI. Good job  :-+

« Last Edit: May 14, 2019, 03:55:23 am by Kosmic »
 
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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #31292 on: May 14, 2019, 06:33:11 am »
While you guys were discussing (arguing?) the environmental impacts of lead I had to open windows to blow the stink out. Pretty big magic smoke release. Been a long time since the last one. Working on a 7A24 plug-in and for some reason the +15V v2 supply on the main board is a solid short to ground. Took out at 3.3mH inductor wound around a 10 ohm resistor in spectacular fashion. Gonna be fun trying to find the source as it supplies over half the board. Oh well.  :-// :-DD

Geez....still stinks in here.  :o

Taaaaants to quote mnem.

Good luck with that one  :(
 

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #31293 on: May 14, 2019, 06:49:20 am »
I was going to say that I bet its a shorted Tant but you beat me to it. I think I prefer Bastard Taaaaants when describing them though  [emoji1787]

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« Last Edit: May 14, 2019, 06:52:40 am by Specmaster »
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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #31294 on: May 14, 2019, 06:57:46 am »
Well, at around $4 a probe, if you get a bad one, it's not a big loss. Keep a few bags around. ;D
P6100's and all P**** probes from anywhere have only one source, an obscure company specializing in probes in Yangzhong China.
There are many many rebrands and they've been around for donkeys dicks years.

Took me ages even now to re-find them but heaps longer some years back when I first went looking.
I thought to myself for a long time now that I bet most if not all probes are made at the same place and big brands like Tek etc buy and badge them. I'm happy with my probes via ebay and seem to get good results with them.

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Offline maginnovision

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #31295 on: May 14, 2019, 07:40:52 am »
2% silver stuff is amazing. I bought a roll of this a while back to use on some old Tek stuff and it is just the best stuff to use: https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/solders/1047303/ (Felder 62/36/2 RA 0.5mm)

Only problem is the price! I am using it to assemble my K2 which I think deserves decent solder unlike my shitty prototypes :D
Yeah, my 20 year old 2% silver roll is tucked away for only special duties. Works great on multi layer heat robbing PCB's.  :phew:

------------
Keeps looking over shoulder to judge if current leaded solder stocks will see me out or not.......probably, but what might the kids use when I'm pushing up daisy's ..............better get some more ! ASAP.

Yep I just did that. Bought ten rolls of 60/40 as backup off ebay. Specmaster took advantage of the deal as well but got a make an offer discount whereas I didn't  :palm:

I noticed there's usually lots of it at hamfests these days but it's probably got extra nicotine flux  :-DD

I don't even pay full price when they don't have the make offer button.
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #31296 on: May 14, 2019, 07:42:23 am »
Well, at around $4 a probe, if you get a bad one, it's not a big loss. Keep a few bags around. ;D
P6100's and all P**** probes from anywhere have only one source, an obscure company specializing in probes in Yangzhong China.
There are many many rebrands and they've been around for donkeys dicks years.

Took me ages even now to re-find them but heaps longer some years back when I first went looking.
I thought to myself for a long time now that I bet most if not all probes are made at the same place and big brands like Tek etc buy and badge them. I'm happy with my probes via ebay and seem to get good results with them.
Seems that way but it's not.

There's 3 or 4 eastern probe manufacturers, most are pretty easy to find but one of the biggest that make the P**** probes is not. You'll find them re-badged and sold under several names as well as their own.

There's some quite reasonable probes coming from this part of the world now.
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Offline beanflying

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #31297 on: May 14, 2019, 07:42:37 am »
Non Productive Afternoon  :palm:

So many interesting data type channels to look at more closely around 433 >:D
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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #31298 on: May 14, 2019, 07:51:54 am »
2% silver stuff is amazing. I bought a roll of this a while back to use on some old Tek stuff and it is just the best stuff to use: https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/solders/1047303/ (Felder 62/36/2 RA 0.5mm)

Only problem is the price! I am using it to assemble my K2 which I think deserves decent solder unlike my shitty prototypes :D
Yeah, my 20 year old 2% silver roll is tucked away for only special duties. Works great on multi layer heat robbing PCB's.  :phew:

------------
Keeps looking over shoulder to judge if current leaded solder stocks will see me out or not.......probably, but what might the kids use when I'm pushing up daisy's ..............better get some more ! ASAP.

Yep I just did that. Bought ten rolls of 60/40 as backup off ebay. Specmaster took advantage of the deal as well but got a make an offer discount whereas I didn't  :palm:

I noticed there's usually lots of it at hamfests these days but it's probably got extra nicotine flux  :-DD

I don't even pay full price when they don't have the make offer button.
I don't either, cos I have a pay after delivery account so I get an extra 2 weeks credit. That's great, but it's easy to run up a bigger bill than you thought if not paying attention [emoji848]

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Online tggzzz

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #31299 on: May 14, 2019, 07:54:05 am »
Hell, lead is everywhere as roof flashings and even waste pipes from yesteryear and the only reason it's not still in common use is cost......and the loss of skills to work with it.

Or, as in my house, in the water supply from the road.

I've lived here for 30 years, and have been very sure to run the water for 1 minutes to clear the water out of those pipes.

Or another traditional source: lead shot in game.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2019, 08:00:43 am by tggzzz »
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