Author Topic: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread  (Read 1612179 times)

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Online mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #35400 on: July 22, 2019, 03:32:21 pm »
Today is my sixty-first birthday. That's an impressive number given what I have put this meat bag through. To celebrate, SWMBO took me out to dinner at a local restaurant that happens to have a butcher shop.  Here are two of the gifts I received:

   About the key fob... one day after a particularly frustrating conference call, I walked into the kitchen, announced someone seemed to have slipped a full dose of fukitolTM into my club soda, and went outside to spend the rest of the day on the deck, reading a biography of Newton.  SWMBO had never heard the term before, interwebbed it, and turned it into a birthday present.



mnem
*toddles off to ded*
« Last Edit: July 22, 2019, 03:33:53 pm by mnementh »
 
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Offline tggzzz

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #35401 on: July 22, 2019, 05:02:51 pm »
I've finally got around to opening 1/3 of a previous acquisition.
Snip
Datron voltage divider, operating in a manner of the volt ratio box(L&N,Guildline)made the primary standard ones.
Datron 4902. I'd buy it from you...



Ok please don't tell me you paid 10$  |O

Close, but no cigar.

That box doesn't have its schematic on the front panel and is easy to understand. It is also the second 1/3, which I haven't opened since it is wired to the third 1/3.

No, I didn't pay $10, either for the complete setup or for 1/3 of it:( But within an order of magnitude if you include petrol and depreciation. My photo showed 65 resistors, and if you take  the price I saw on fleabay yesterday[1], then that's much more than I paid :)

[1] virtually nothing visible today?!
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
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Offline tggzzz

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #35402 on: July 22, 2019, 05:15:52 pm »
I've finally got around to opening 1/3 of a previous acquisition.
Snip
Datron voltage divider, operating in a manner of the volt ratio box(L&N,Guildline)made the primary standard ones.
Datron 4902. I'd buy it from you...

I've got the other 2/3 as well.

I think learning to use it will occupy me for a while.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less
 

Offline Ero-Shan

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #35403 on: July 22, 2019, 10:00:20 pm »

Its another Philips. Couldn't find anything resembling a manual, but for less than 22 € including shipping you can't do much wrong:




Looks like one of the Japanese made ones (a re-branded Takeda Riken), I have a Philips PM 2423 multimeter made by them.

David

You have a point there. The whole appearance is definitely not Philips-y. Colors, buttons, tilt stand. Still haven't opened it, scheduled for this evening.

I have no issues whatsoever with the counter being not a Philips original.
 

Offline Ero-Shan

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #35404 on: July 22, 2019, 10:03:03 pm »
Luck was on my side yesterday and I scored this nice frequency counter; a BK Precision 1803D.
Sure, it's quite basic for a FC, but a basic frequency counter is better than no frequency counter at all.

It's a start, and not a bad one!
200 MHz also.

Congratulations!  :-+
 
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Online 0culus

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #35405 on: July 22, 2019, 11:54:11 pm »
As usual, Shahriar has you covered.  :-+



Some of the stuff he repairs is WAY beyond my skill level to barely comprehend. But I watch anyway and this old dog does sometimes learn new tricks.  ;D

Paul Carlson is more my speed.  :-+

I watch them both, learn so much from them. Both of their collections of test equipment are absolutely awesome.  :-+ I still want to know just how big Paul's basement is.  :-DD He's showed us parts of it in video tours, but he still has tons of space for all that stuff.

Pulled the trigger on the type 114. Also been amusing myself with the hidden timer/clock on the HP45.

I knew you would.  :-+ But I'm sort of in the same place. I have so much stuff laying around here that needs repair/restore that unless something comes along that's an absolute screaming deal I'm going to pass for now.

Yeah, and a good pulse generator is something I need. I built one a while back using a 555 timer, and it works, but it needs a square wave trigger input, which takes the function generator out of commission.

I agree; it has to be a screaming deal and ideally something small and light.  :-DD I have an 8568B in the repair queue still yet to be touched. Need to install a battery in my 8566A so it stops losing it's mind. Plus I am going to be getting another box of Tek goodies for my 7904A soon, which will be a mix of stuff that's working and ready to go and some projects.
 

Offline Specmaster

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #35406 on: July 23, 2019, 12:12:07 am »
As usual, Shahriar has you covered.  :-+



Some of the stuff he repairs is WAY beyond my skill level to barely comprehend. But I watch anyway and this old dog does sometimes learn new tricks.  ;D

Paul Carlson is more my speed.  :-+
Yep, I whole heartily concur with that thought although he does at times get involved with stuff from the higher realms and leaves me way behind him in his wake

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Online bd139

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #35407 on: July 23, 2019, 12:29:02 am »
A question for TEA members ... if presented with the choice, which would you buy and why?

1. A Fluke 25.
2. A Fluke 77.

(I ran out of DMMs today again. Need one more)

I owned a 77 for a number of years so am familiar with them but not the 25.
 

Online med6753

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #35408 on: July 23, 2019, 12:41:54 am »
I'm biased. Not familiar with the 25 but I am with the 77. 
An old gray beard with an attitude.
 

Offline tggzzz

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #35409 on: July 23, 2019, 12:54:38 am »
I've had N 25s, and sold N-1 of them at a profit :) With a bit of light repair (fuse, clean the LCD's zebrazone connector etc) the all worked and were in spec.

Basically, they are large, heavy, have a surprisingly good spec, and are squaddie proof. The hollow double-skinned case makes them even larger, and if sending them through the post, the only packaging that would be needed is a polythene bag. (Cardboard? Bubblewrap? Forget it!)

I like them. I prefer them to my Fluke 21.

There are a couple up for auction on the 30th, and Ramco will post them for £25. https://www.bidspotter.co.uk/en-gb/auction-catalogues/ramco/catalogue-id-ramco-10171/lot-711b27a1-c59d-4b64-a773-aa8f00d8e259
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
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Online bd139

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #35410 on: July 23, 2019, 01:11:07 am »
Interesting. Just what I need :)

I just compared the basic accuracy and spec sheet to the 77 and they are considerably better.

What's the continuity tester like on them for response?

Edit: found a size comparison picture  :o



Could kill an elephant with one of them.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2019, 01:24:15 am by bd139 »
 

Offline Specmaster

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #35411 on: July 23, 2019, 01:42:46 am »
A question for TEA members ... if presented with the choice, which would you buy and why?

1. A Fluke 25.
2. A Fluke 77.

(I ran out of DMMs today again. Need one more)

I owned a 77 for a number of years so am familiar with them but not the 25.
Ok, then that is a serious no brainer for except that I'd replace the Fluke 25 for Fluke 27 which is the identical meter but with 2 extra buttons , Rel and Min/Max which are well worth paying a few extra £ for.  For what little these old meters cost nowadays and also given as tggzzz said they are squaddie proof and are nearly always dead nuts on the calibration.

Edit.

To answer you latest post the continuity tester is first rate.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2019, 01:44:17 am by Specmaster »
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Offline tggzzz

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #35412 on: July 23, 2019, 01:51:44 am »
What's the continuity tester like on them for response?

Touching leads to hearing the sound is a very small fraction of a second.
Ohms setting o/c voltage is 0.8V. Continuity/diode setting o/c voltage is 2.5V, and will light LEDs.

Other than that, the 25/27 manual gives the answers.

I've never needed delta or min/max settings. The only difference is the buttons in the case, so you could get a faulty 27 and swap cases.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less
 

Online bd139

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #35413 on: July 23, 2019, 01:54:06 am »
Yeah don't need a 27. They seem to fetch a premium for being yellow and having two buttons.

Does the continuity detector always beep even if the contact is extremely short? To test this I usually stuff the DMM on continuity and strike the probe tips together lightly and away again.
 

Offline tggzzz

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #35414 on: July 23, 2019, 02:03:37 am »
Yeah don't need a 27. They seem to fetch a premium for being yellow and having two buttons.

Does the continuity detector always beep even if the contact is extremely short? To test this I usually stuff the DMM on continuity and strike the probe tips together lightly and away again.

Yes or no, depending[1]. Good answer, innit.

[1] probably on duration of contact and/or resistance of contact, but impossible to tell.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less
 

Offline Cubdriver

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #35415 on: July 23, 2019, 02:03:54 am »
I can't speak directly to either, but have a 77-II that I bought in the 90s, and a 27/FM I snagged a few years ago off the 'bay when the military surplussed a ton of them.  Both are excellent.  The 27/FM normally lives in my toolbox; it is a meter that can also serve as a blunt-force weapon if needed.



Flip a coin - you won't go wrong with either, IMO.

-Pat
If it jams, force it.  If it breaks, you needed a new one anyway...
 

Online bd139

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #35416 on: July 23, 2019, 02:13:13 am »
In that case, thanks all. I shall lurk on ebay for a good one. I don't fancy any of the currently listed ones.

Edit: I found a reasonable one for £40. Accepts offers. Put a £35 offer in. Not accepted. Put £37 offer in. Not accepted. On principle the seller can bugger off now :)
« Last Edit: July 23, 2019, 02:23:13 am by bd139 »
 

Online mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #35417 on: July 23, 2019, 03:31:56 am »
I've finally got around to opening 1/3 of a previous acquisition.
Snip
Datron voltage divider, operating in a manner of the volt ratio box(L&N,Guildline)made the primary standard ones.
Datron 4902. I'd buy it from you...
I've got the other 2/3 as well.

I think learning to use it will occupy me for a while.

tggzzz has become one with the resistance.  ;)

mnem
 

Offline Specmaster

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #35418 on: July 23, 2019, 03:36:34 am »
In general I agree with tggzzz but why not have the min/max, I have had many occasions to use it, not so the REL button though. I have never had any problems when testing circuits using the buzzer, it seems to always work OK for me, no noticeable delay at all and it is not scratchy like so many other meters can be, but then again you wouldn't expect anything less from Fluke world you.

As Dave has very ably demonstrated in many of his videos, the Min/Max is a really useful addition to any DMM, especially if you have suspect power rails, the Min/Max is ideal for extended soak tests. These 2 videos show that in action and also of course why you can never have too many DMM's  :-+ Look at 1:55 in the 2nd video  :popcorn:


« Last Edit: July 23, 2019, 03:39:04 am by Specmaster »
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Online mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #35419 on: July 23, 2019, 03:46:58 am »
What's the continuity tester like on them for response?

Touching leads to hearing the sound is a very small fraction of a second.
Ohms setting o/c voltage is 0.8V. Continuity/diode setting o/c voltage is 2.5V, and will light LEDs.

Other than that, the 25/27 manual gives the answers.

I've never needed delta or min/max settings. The only difference is the buttons in the case, so you could get a faulty 27 and swap cases.

Is it "scan & latch" type, or strictly linear response? The latching continuity was a feature I fell in love with on the 87; you could just drag the probe across the pins of an IC and listen for a short. The 189 has a different implementation; it latches and warbles, I guess to be more noticeable in noisy environments. Still haven't gotten used to it; the crisp, clear pseudo-sine wave of the 87's tone was music to my ears.  :-+

mnem
 

Offline tggzzz

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #35420 on: July 23, 2019, 04:16:26 am »
What's the continuity tester like on them for response?

Touching leads to hearing the sound is a very small fraction of a second.
Ohms setting o/c voltage is 0.8V. Continuity/diode setting o/c voltage is 2.5V, and will light LEDs.

Other than that, the 25/27 manual gives the answers.

I've never needed delta or min/max settings. The only difference is the buttons in the case, so you could get a faulty 27 and swap cases.

Is it "scan & latch" type, or strictly linear response? The latching continuity was a feature I fell in love with on the 87; you could just drag the probe across the pins of an IC and listen for a short. The 189 has a different implementation; it latches and warbles, I guess to be more noticeable in noisy environments. Still haven't gotten used to it; the crisp, clear pseudo-sine wave of the 87's tone was music to my ears.  :-+

Certainly not latching, beyond hat difficult to say.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less
 

Offline Specmaster

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #35421 on: July 23, 2019, 04:33:10 am »
What's the continuity tester like on them for response?

Touching leads to hearing the sound is a very small fraction of a second.
Ohms setting o/c voltage is 0.8V. Continuity/diode setting o/c voltage is 2.5V, and will light LEDs.

Other than that, the 25/27 manual gives the answers.

I've never needed delta or min/max settings. The only difference is the buttons in the case, so you could get a faulty 27 and swap cases.

Is it "scan & latch" type, or strictly linear response? The latching continuity was a feature I fell in love with on the 87; you could just drag the probe across the pins of an IC and listen for a short. The 189 has a different implementation; it latches and warbles, I guess to be more noticeable in noisy environments. Still haven't gotten used to it; the crisp, clear pseudo-sine wave of the 87's tone was music to my ears.  :-+

mnem

No, you can't just drag the probe in that fashion, for that sort of feature you need something a little more up to-date. But if you take your time dragging it across the pins then it is certainly upto the task with a pleasing sound. But it has plenty of other features that are way head and shoulders what other meters, even today especially when it comes robustness and build quality.
Who let Murphy in?
 

Offline nixiefreqq

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #35422 on: July 23, 2019, 05:12:03 am »
hey med:

mail just came....THANKS!

glad you liked the fluke counter (even though others think it is fugly).  it is a nice little instrument.  but it lacked nixie-ness and was not a "bill and dave" product.  (and just does not fit into any of my stacks).

shame about the shipping incident with the other counter!

pm on the way with another tracking #.  it will make your measurements easily better than 1 part in 100 million.  would not recommend that you even remove the cover screw over the adjustment pot.....it is already performing at about the limit of its design.  oh, and please note that the power really is minus 12V.  oh, and don't be afraid to let the counter overflow for higher resolution.  long gate times and overflows are sometimes your friend with 8 digit counters.

will apologize in advance if this drives you into parts per billion and beyond.  that path leads to true freq-land.   



« Last Edit: July 23, 2019, 05:21:44 am by nixiefreqq »
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Offline factory

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #35423 on: July 23, 2019, 05:20:38 am »
I've finally got around to opening 1/3 of a previous acquisition.
Snip
Datron voltage divider, operating in a manner of the volt ratio box(L&N,Guildline)made the primary standard ones.
Datron 4902. I'd buy it from you...
I've got the other 2/3 as well.

I think learning to use it will occupy me for a while.

tggzzz has become one with the resistance.  ;)

mnem

I'm guessing the whole set is something like this one.

791961-0

David
« Last Edit: July 23, 2019, 05:26:18 am by factory »
 

Online mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #35424 on: July 23, 2019, 05:24:39 am »
Is it "scan & latch" type, or strictly linear response? The latching continuity was a feature I fell in love with on the 87; you could just drag the probe across the pins of an IC and listen for a short. The 189 has a different implementation; it latches and warbles, I guess to be more noticeable in noisy environments. Still haven't gotten used to it; the crisp, clear pseudo-sine wave of the 87's tone was music to my ears.  :-+

mnem

No, you can't just drag the probe in that fashion, for that sort of feature you need something a little more up to-date. But if you take your time dragging it across the pins then it is certainly upto the task with a pleasing sound. But it has plenty of other features that are way head and shoulders what other meters, even today especially when it comes robustness and build quality.

Yup; no contest on the price/value argument. There's a reason these meters are still around; they're built like a tank, because they were built to be used in a tank, literally.  :-+

mnem
*giggles at nixiefreqq Paying It Forward*
 


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