Author Topic: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread  (Read 2858171 times)

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Offline mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #54375 on: April 02, 2020, 12:39:13 pm »
   Having ignored they "nay-sayers" and the why-bother gang, I went ahead and finished my 3D printed attachment for my DER EE DE5000 LCR meter. I can now connect my BNC Kelvin tweezers and probes to the meter.

McBryce.

 :P PPPPPPPTTTTTPPPPBBBBB!

That said... how did adding all that coax & connectors affect your accuracy & ability to zero out the poor fucker...? Net gain, or just more assache...?


In all honesty... I didn't mean to sound so negative; it just seemed a lot of work to try & achieve Lab-grade measurement process from a device which was designed primarily to be quick & versatile in connectivity yet reasonably accurate for diag work. Kind of the antithesis of what the DE-5000 is all about. :-//

mnem
*currently hating the "oh, so close..." aspect of Murphy's Law*

I haven't wired it up yet. The PCB in the picture is still the 1.6mm version which doesn't fit into the meters slots. The 1mm PCB has arrived, but I haven't had a chance to cut and fit it yet. It shouldn't be an issue to zero it out. If it's properly shielded and the internal connections kept to a minimum length and seperated it should have results equal or better than the standard crocodile clip version.

McBryce.

You & I both know that "shouldn't be" & "should have" are BOTH Murphy's pups. I can see just the capacitance of all that extra coax fscking with your head bigtime. Good luck, my friend. ;)

mnem
The Devil, she never sleeps.

Yes, but we won't be able to answer that question until I actually build and test one.


And to answer your 3D question above. I've had best results with the brass coloured fitting on the far right of your pictures.

McBryce.

Agreed. And I promise; I was being sincere when I wished you luck. More power tooya. ;)

Thanks. I'm trying to decide whether to keep the red extruder or send it back while I can, along with a few other bits. More data points helps make that an informed decision. :-+

mnem
 

Offline med6753

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #54376 on: April 02, 2020, 01:11:32 pm »
The overnight run on the 8505A appears to be a fail but I discovered the issue. I mentioned that I thought there were cal issues with the 100V range and 1000V range. This proved to be correct. The ABSOLUTE cal data in memory is indeed correct but the ZERO point is incorrect and that was screwing up the readings.

See pix. The 8505A powers up default 1000VDC manual range. Look at the display. 10mV? That ain't right. If you short the input still reads 10mV. I found the procedure in the manual to set an absolute zero. Turns out all the DC ranges needed to be reset. Now that it's done this 8505A is freaking BANG ON.  :-+ :-+ But I'm going to repeat the burn in to make sure. I'll post results tomorrow.

An old gray beard with an attitude.
 
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Offline mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #54377 on: April 02, 2020, 01:15:15 pm »
   

One. Fucking. Millimeter. Doesn't seem like much from the overview... but when you look at the business end, it really is a BIG fucking deal. The one side is close enough to either melt or totally eff up the thermals on the heat block. SO CLOSE.

Of course, my inner bean is whispering (while poking me with a hand-made scratch awl) "iterative design..." and I can hear other voices murmuring "You have your first iteration... now fix it with a new design in Fusion."

Fuck you all very much.  :-DD


mnem
and a special "Fuck. You." just for bean.  ;)
« Last Edit: April 02, 2020, 01:17:15 pm by mnementh »
 
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Offline bd139

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #54378 on: April 02, 2020, 01:17:30 pm »
1mm out is hot snot distance  :-DD
 
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Offline med6753

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #54379 on: April 02, 2020, 01:18:40 pm »
Gee Dragon.....frustrated much??  :P :-DD
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Offline AVGresponding

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #54380 on: April 02, 2020, 01:29:15 pm »
As it happens, I have a full set of RS 1998 paper catalogues...
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Online Brumby

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #54381 on: April 02, 2020, 01:34:43 pm »
Gee Dragon.....frustrated much??  :P :-DD

I think I can see singed Smurf in the near future....
 

Offline Specmaster

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #54382 on: April 02, 2020, 01:35:06 pm »
As it happens, I have a full set of RS 1998 paper catalogues...
Well it would be nice to know if it mentions the metal case in the description for this meter and also what its original price was when you get a few minutes to spare, please.
Who let Murphy in?

Brymen-Fluke-Solartron-HP-Thurlby-Heathkit-Thander-Tek-Extech-Black Star-GW-Advance-Avo
 

Offline bd139

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #54383 on: April 02, 2020, 01:38:41 pm »
Gee Dragon.....frustrated much??  :P :-DD

I think I can see singed Smurf in the near future....

 
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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #54384 on: April 02, 2020, 01:39:40 pm »
Yep.
 

Offline mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #54385 on: April 02, 2020, 01:57:31 pm »
Gee Dragon.....frustrated much??  :P :-DD
I think I can see singed Smurf in the near future....



I don't have time for that shit right now. I'll just hire Wendy to deal with the little bastards.  >:D

Worse... I just found the EASY cure actually in stock someplace I can order it. US$30 delivered and anything made for the Ender 3 hotend setup will just bolt right on. |O

mnem
Maybe I should just throw a little money at the problem and wait a few days... :o

 
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Offline McBryce

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #54386 on: April 02, 2020, 02:08:32 pm »

Agreed. And I promise; I was being sincere when I wished you luck. More power tooya. ;)

Thanks. I'm trying to decide whether to keep the red extruder or send it back while I can, along with a few other bits. More data points helps make that an informed decision. :-+

mnem


I use the red extruder and I'm quite happy with it. Even if you have a better one, I'd still keep the red one as a spare.

Getting back to your concerns about the parasitic capacitance on my DER EE expansion. I thought I'd do some tests on a few bodged lengths of coax and I don't think there will be any extra capacitance to zero out. There are 4 coax leads, each carrying one signal - Sense+, Sense-, Load+, Load- and the shield of each coax is connected to the Guard. As far as I can see, the only capacitance build-up would be between any line and guard, but I assume that the sense lines are being measured differentially relative to each other, not relative to the guard (if they did it properly). So how would any capacitance be added to the circuit, no matter how long the coax leads are. Inductance perhaps, but not capacitance.

McBryce.

P.s. Version two of the DER expansion is printing at the moment, with all the changes I manually made to V1. I also added anti-rotation features to the BNC socket holes.
 

Offline AVGresponding

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #54387 on: April 02, 2020, 02:18:46 pm »
As it happens, I have a full set of RS 1998 paper catalogues...
Well it would be nice to know if it mentions the metal case in the description for this meter and also what its original price was when you get a few minutes to spare, please.

No mention of case type. Curiously enough, the 1906 in the catalogue is not a lot more expensive, unless you get the GPIB option, £100 extra!
Also curiously, the 1906 has a plastic case, whereas mine has a metal case... I guess Black Star and TTi were both using whatever they could get their hands on at the time? Playing suppliers off against each other? Would be nice if there was some former employee member of this forum that could shed some light, just to satisfy curiosity at least   :-//



My 1906:



Pulled apart a dimmable LED lamp that had failed, last night (wow, was I bored or what...). Was a Crompton 5716 (now discontinued).  Digging all the silicone out was a proper ball-ache, particularly as I wanted to do as little damage as possible to the power supply so I could identify the failure mode (had already checked all the LEDs).
Does no-one clean flux off boards any more?

As their factory is within throwing distance of several of our sites, I might just post the remains through their letterbox...
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Offline Saskia

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #54388 on: April 02, 2020, 02:32:26 pm »
that does not look healthy.
 

Offline AVGresponding

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #54389 on: April 02, 2020, 02:41:55 pm »
Yeah I think it's a combination of not cleaning the flux and overheating.

The diode tests ok, as does the snubber diode in the mosfet, but I'll have to remove the mosfet from the board to test it properly.

There is also a 160V 47uF electro on the other side of the board where that mosfet is, and even though it's a 105 celcius one, it's on the list of suspects.
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Offline Specmaster

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #54390 on: April 02, 2020, 02:42:40 pm »
You can clearly see the case is metal though  :D

If anyone is at a loose end while being locked down this might cheer you up a bit  :-DD

Who let Murphy in?

Brymen-Fluke-Solartron-HP-Thurlby-Heathkit-Thander-Tek-Extech-Black Star-GW-Advance-Avo
 

Offline AVGresponding

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #54391 on: April 02, 2020, 02:46:32 pm »
Yeah, you can.

Think I'll dig out my Maplins and Farnell catalogues from the same era and see if they have them too.
nuqDaq yuch Dapol?
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Offline Saskia

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #54392 on: April 02, 2020, 02:49:03 pm »
first of all I would clean up the area. Remove the components, test them, and resolder them.
 

Offline AVGresponding

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #54393 on: April 02, 2020, 03:01:19 pm »
No point, I did damage some "unpotting" it, one in particular 1206 sized one has lost it's resistive coat and markings, just the ceramic substrate left.
Also a couple of inductors are now "sine filis"...   :-[
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Offline AVGresponding

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #54394 on: April 02, 2020, 04:21:52 pm »
Well, some interesting reading, going back to the past to see what these things cost new.

Looks like the metal body 4503 is the later version, probably to do with the EMC changes at the start of 1996. Seems to be the same for the 1906, and of course mine is badged TTi, so is later still.

One fascinating (to me) little nugget, is that the Fluke 8060A and AVO 8 were still sold up to at least 1998, and were more expensive than a Fluke 87 III   :o

Also looking at the prices of some of my other gear makes me glad I wasn't trying to build a workshop collection back then, I would have needed to be a lottery winner, especially regarding scopes and scopemeters   :scared:
nuqDaq yuch Dapol?
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Offline Ice-Tea

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #54395 on: April 02, 2020, 04:23:21 pm »
Cheers Ice-Tea, you pre-empted me stubbing my right foot into a wooden storage chest that we have in our hallway in the early hours of the morning while attempting to catch a very naughty cat who didn't want to go to bed last night. It almost brought tears to my eyes. Had no sleep all night as it kept giving my shooting pains like someone was poking red-hot needles into my toes. Got up worked my way downstairs and took some painkillers and then sat up all night with the pain. Still doing this morning, no sign of an bruising or other damage just these regular shooting pains  |O

On the bright side: it helps with the "well, now you're home here's a list with all the things that need to be done".

Offline Specmaster

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #54396 on: April 02, 2020, 04:29:15 pm »
Cheers Ice-Tea, you pre-empted me stubbing my right foot into a wooden storage chest that we have in our hallway in the early hours of the morning while attempting to catch a very naughty cat who didn't want to go to bed last night. It almost brought tears to my eyes. Had no sleep all night as it kept giving my shooting pains like someone was poking red-hot needles into my toes. Got up worked my way downstairs and took some painkillers and then sat up all night with the pain. Still doing this morning, no sign of an bruising or other damage just these regular shooting pains  |O

On the bright side: it helps with the "well, now you're home here's a list with all the things that need to be done".
To an extent it does, it also gives rise to "open your eyes", "you knew it was there" comments etc  :horse: :-DD
Who let Murphy in?

Brymen-Fluke-Solartron-HP-Thurlby-Heathkit-Thander-Tek-Extech-Black Star-GW-Advance-Avo
 

Offline Cerebus

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #54397 on: April 02, 2020, 04:44:22 pm »
You can clearly see the case is metal though  :D

If anyone is at a loose end while being locked down this might cheer you up a bit  :-DD



Oh god, can we please leave Jim Davidson where he belongs, on stage in a smoky working men's club in Scunthorpe in the 1970's, being pelted with the leftovers of people's pies and empty beer bottles?
Anybody got a syringe I can use to squeeze the magic smoke back into this?
 
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Offline Specmaster

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #54398 on: April 02, 2020, 04:49:48 pm »
Well, some interesting reading, going back to the past to see what these things cost new.

Looks like the metal body 4503 is the later version, probably to do with the EMC changes at the start of 1996. Seems to be the same for the 1906, and of course mine is badged TTi, so is later still.

One fascinating (to me) little nugget, is that the Fluke 8060A and AVO 8 were still sold up to at least 1998, and were more expensive than a Fluke 87 III   :o

Also looking at the prices of some of my other gear makes me glad I wasn't trying to build a workshop collection back then, I would have needed to be a lottery winner, especially regarding scopes and scopemeters   :scared:

Well, don't forget that for years, in the UK at least, the Avo 8 was considered to be the bench mark of meters and service charts / manuals often used to cite it as the meter to be used when measuring voltages on a piece of equipment, or at the very least, they would state that a meter of 20,000opv be used, so I'm not at all surprised that it was still on sale or that it was more expensive than some newer boys on the block, even if they were called Fluke  :-DD.

I know what you mean about the prices back in the day, all I could do was dream of owning such items of TE and its only in the last few years that I have been able to start gathering some decent equipment around me, I now have two Avo 8's.

Well she is back in operation and all seems to be working fine apart from the Auto Ranging. still got to look at the advanced functions like logging etc. Not sure if the remote part works, never had the need to use any remotes so far so not bothered.

Here its reading a voltage of according to my Fluke 8840A 5.5032V and it reads 5.426V so a calibration will be done once the auto ranging is sorted.


Who let Murphy in?

Brymen-Fluke-Solartron-HP-Thurlby-Heathkit-Thander-Tek-Extech-Black Star-GW-Advance-Avo
 

Offline AVGresponding

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #54399 on: April 02, 2020, 05:00:32 pm »
Well, the 1998 RS catalogue lists the Fluke 87 III at £239, the 8060A at £429, and the AVO 8 at £499.

My PM99 II was around £1700, couldn't find my TDS420A, but lower models like the 310 and stuff were listed at well over £2k. Oh, and my Fluke 8840A would have cost me around £110 £1100   :palm:.

All prices are exclusive of vodka and tonic of course... which if memory serves was at 17.5% back then.


EDIT: Here's a 1906 for you. When considering the price, always remember, it's been "cleaned and tested" !   :-DD :palm:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/THURLBY-THANDAR-INSTRUMENTS-58122-0280-581220280-USED-TESTED-CLEANED/392307906399
« Last Edit: April 02, 2020, 05:41:06 pm by AVGresponding »
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