Author Topic: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread  (Read 3000683 times)

Specmaster, Saskia, Robert763, 6h8c, xrunner, mnementh, tonyalbus and 13 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline factory

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 363
  • Country: gb
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #54500 on: April 03, 2020, 09:37:49 pm »
Finished repairing the wiring harness on the 3400A (thanks again factory/david for the photos!), applied power and nothing exploded. Proper DC voltages in the right places. That's the good news. 

The bad news is the thermocouple is bad. When I powered up the meter, the needle slowly swung to full scale and pegged. Checked the thermocouples and one of the two is out of limits.

The good news is that sphere has a couple in stock. The bad news is they cost $60 plus shipping.  So a couple more 3400A questions before I spend three times what the meter cost me for a single part  |O

1. If the thermocouple got fried, how likely is it that the chopper amp is damaged, too?

2. What's the likelihood of randomly finding another 3400A parts mule with a good thermocouple?  Seems like the easiest part of the meter to damage.

1). Sometimes the thermocouples die of old age, no idea if anything else can bugger them up.

My 'conceit' re HP 3400A has come back to bite me!
I hadn't used it for a long time, so I plugged it in and the meter pegged - typically a fault in one of the pair of thermocouples. Fortunately the parts unit's t-couples / board were working fine - so just a board shuffle - I have managed to find some NOS of 2 matched pairs of t-couples for not crazy money - so will have a go at fixing it - they seem to be a common failure in this unit.

2). Probably difficult to say, the second last one I bought (newer unit) had dead thermocouples, I was hoping the meter had survived, but it got damaged by DumPeD* delivery as all the screws were loose or missing.  :palm:

I'm having better luck with BD's 3400A, more on that tomorrow.

David

*They left it hidden in the garden out in the rain too (with no note through the letterbox), only noticed an email saying delivered after it finished raining.
 

Online 0culus

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2208
  • Country: us
  • Electronics, RF, and TEA Hobbyist
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #54501 on: April 03, 2020, 09:47:45 pm »
Been after one of them for a few years. Thanks for the mini tear down  :-+

You're welcome! I just chanced upon in listings from a large equipment reseller it while browsing ebay, and the price was very good. I didn't picture it, but I believe it was a gift from HP to the Univ. of Washington EE dept, as it has a property tag on the rear panel and a large "DONATED BY HEWLETT-PACKARD" nameplate nicely screwed into the top cover.

Good luck finding one!

Nice, Sean - glad to see it's working again.  I'd been following the thread on the HPAK list; it's nice to see some pics of it.  That resistor certainly did its imitation of a match when it went out, huh?   :o

-Pat

Yeah, that had to smell really bad when it happened.  :o Luckily, it appears the neighbors escaped damage (just some black soot).
 
The following users thanked this post: bd139

Offline worsthorse

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1188
  • Country: us
  • aina varma, usein väärin
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #54502 on: April 03, 2020, 10:00:12 pm »
Finished repairing the wiring harness on the 3400A (thanks again factory/david for the photos!), applied power and nothing exploded. Proper DC voltages in the right places. That's the good news. 

The bad news is the thermocouple is bad. When I powered up the meter, the needle slowly swung to full scale and pegged. Checked the thermocouples and one of the two is out of limits.

The good news is that sphere has a couple in stock. The bad news is they cost $60 plus shipping.  So a couple more 3400A questions before I spend three times what the meter cost me for a single part  |O

1. If the thermocouple got fried, how likely is it that the chopper amp is damaged, too?

2. What's the likelihood of randomly finding another 3400A parts mule with a good thermocouple?  Seems like the easiest part of the meter to damage.

1). Sometimes the thermocouples die of old age, no idea if anything else can bugger them up.

My 'conceit' re HP 3400A has come back to bite me!
I hadn't used it for a long time, so I plugged it in and the meter pegged - typically a fault in one of the pair of thermocouples. Fortunately the parts unit's t-couples / board were working fine - so just a board shuffle - I have managed to find some NOS of 2 matched pairs of t-couples for not crazy money - so will have a go at fixing it - they seem to be a common failure in this unit.

2). Probably difficult to say, the second last one I bought (newer unit) had dead thermocouples, I was hoping the meter had survived, but it got damaged by DumPeD* delivery as all the screws were loose or missing.  :palm:

I'm having better luck with BD's 3400A, more on that tomorrow.

David

*They left it hidden in the garden out in the rain too (with no note through the letterbox), only noticed an email saying delivered after it finished raining.

Thanks... I did some more research and it sounds like thermocouple failures are often the result of mis-setting the front panel switch and overloading them.  There's even a blurb in the manual to remind the user that doing so is a bad idea, along with instructions on how to test and replace them.

So I buttoned it up, put a note on it regarding what was wrong, and put it on the shelf for now.  There are other, more interesting projects in the queue that I want to dig into.  I will probably buy another one (less likely) or spring for the NOS thermocouple (more likely) next week and get it back out when I have the parts to fix it.

I am happy I have a front porch as I rarely have to worry about rain-soaked packages. Porch pirates are a more pressing concern in my neighborhood...  speaking of which the box of parts for the S38B arrived about fifteen minutes ago, which moves it to the top of the list for bench space.


« Last Edit: April 03, 2020, 10:02:07 pm by worsthorse »
if someone succeeds in provoking you, recognize that your mind is complicit in the provocation.
 

Offline AVGresponding

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1022
  • Country: england
  • Exploring Rabbit Holes Since The 1970s
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #54503 on: April 03, 2020, 10:18:53 pm »
For some reason I've been playing Knights of Cydonia by Muse all day... not quite on repeat, but not far off   :-//

@bd139 I remember those lego motors, and the earlier ones that were a giant block with 4 holes for axles, so you could make a 4wd car or locomotive.

@BU508A, it's a 2-way thing. I just raised "schadenfreude" as we were talking about humour. It's probably my favourite German word after "Donaudampfschiffahrtsgesellschaftskapitän".

Here's a nice power supply for bd139: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Statron-Hochspannungsnetzteil-1-bis-25kV-max-1mA-Typ-4212-VEB-Statron/353032788702
nuqDaq yuch Dapol?
Addiction count: Tektronix-Hameg-Fluke-HP-TTi-Solartron-Thurlby-IsoTech-Black Star-Micronta-Mastech-UniT
 
The following users thanked this post: BU508A, bd139, Ero-Shan

Offline nixiefreqq

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 580
  • Country: us
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #54504 on: April 03, 2020, 10:41:51 pm »
Earlier this week, I got a nifty little package, containing a very nice condition 4332A LCR meter. This is a Yokogawa product like most (all?) HP LCR meters. Unfortunately, it wasn't working. The most obvious thing was a cremated 100 ohm resistor on the A4 board. This probably resulted from someone applying a too-large signal to the guard terminal. Replaced that, but still no go. The oscillator (which also didn't work at some range settings) was stuck at 12.3 KHz rather than switching between 1 KHz and 100 KHz depending on range. After much troubleshooting (with help from a kind person on the HPAK list), I by chance unsoldered A1Q1 (an P-channel FET) to test it out of circuit, which didn't go anywhere. I soldered it back in....and it was working now? Looks like either a cold solder joint or (hopefully not) an intermittent lead on A1Q1.

Anyway, I aligned the meter movement, and it seems to be working now.  :-+

Note -hp- calculator porn in photo, placed carefully for @nixiefreqq.  >:D


i AM jealous of the meter collection.  especially the 4332a.

got frustrated trying to snag one a couple of years ago and finally gave up.  bought an analog discovery 2 instead. (but still have an itch for a swinging needle lcr meter.)

ps  was fixated on the meters and probably would not have noticed the rpn irritant.   thanks for pointing it out. (sarcasm alert for those with out a suitable detector)

 
post lockdown free range primate
 
The following users thanked this post: 0culus

Online mnementh

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7641
  • Country: ca
  • *Escaping The Suck*
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #54505 on: April 03, 2020, 10:47:48 pm »
Been after one of them for a few years. Thanks for the mini tear down  :-+

Absolutely... there's an interesting mix of design ethics there. The overall board configuration is typical HP; probably constraints of the HP chassis layout. But the very angular chromed traces and board component layout in tidy vertical rows of "little soldiers" feels very communications-age Panasonic or Sony. Like the engineers were still "thinking" in terms of terminal strips the way old Tek scopes were made, and applied that same logic to the PCB layout.

mnem
"The true measure of a mountain’s greatness is not its height but whether it is charming enough to attract dragons." ~Tom Holland

« Last Edit: April 03, 2020, 10:50:38 pm by mnementh »
 
The following users thanked this post: BU508A

Offline AVGresponding

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1022
  • Country: england
  • Exploring Rabbit Holes Since The 1970s
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #54506 on: April 03, 2020, 10:52:23 pm »
Oh, mnem's mention of Tek terminal strips reminded me of a recent Mr Carlson's Lab vid, on a Tek UT5 scope calibrator.

I do like his stuff, nice and relaxed presentation, but must admit, I'm not liking the way he seems to be constantly pimping his cap tester these days   :(

Anyone else noticed that, or am I being over-sensitive?
nuqDaq yuch Dapol?
Addiction count: Tektronix-Hameg-Fluke-HP-TTi-Solartron-Thurlby-IsoTech-Black Star-Micronta-Mastech-UniT
 

Online mnementh

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7641
  • Country: ca
  • *Escaping The Suck*
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #54507 on: April 03, 2020, 10:57:10 pm »
The bold and blue font I use because I like the color and it's easier for me to read. I did switch to Navy instead of Primary blue in response to complaints that all the colors made it look like Walt Disney threw up in here. ;)

mnem
Sarchasm: The enormous gulf between your eloquent, pithy remark and the daft git who just doesn't get it.
Nah, it's just a feeble attempt at not falling into the gulf of Med's blue haze.  :P

Dig those claws in memn and resist.....if you can.  :-DD

meh. If the worst that happens to me in a day is I got a splatter of Smurf-berry juice on me, it's been a damned fine day. :-DD

mnem
 
The following users thanked this post: tautech, Specmaster

Offline Mr. Scram

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 9248
  • Country: 00
  • Display aficionado
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #54508 on: April 03, 2020, 11:05:39 pm »
10 Put up a significant amount of additional shelving
20 Fill shelving
30 Find I need more shelving
40 LOOP

:palm:
 

Online bd139

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 14922
  • Country: gb
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #54509 on: April 03, 2020, 11:30:27 pm »
5 DO

Can’t get the staff these days  :-DD
 
The following users thanked this post: Specmaster

Offline Mr. Scram

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 9248
  • Country: 00
  • Display aficionado
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #54510 on: April 03, 2020, 11:42:36 pm »
5 DO

Can’t get the staff these days  :-DD
I debated adding a DO but as I don't set out to loop I decided against it. It also conveniently annoys people.
 

Offline beanflying

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5179
  • Country: au
  • Toys so very many Toys.
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #54511 on: April 04, 2020, 12:37:09 am »
Oh, mnem's mention of Tek terminal strips reminded me of a recent Mr Carlson's Lab vid, on a Tek UT5 scope calibrator.

I do like his stuff, nice and relaxed presentation, but must admit, I'm not liking the way he seems to be constantly pimping his cap tester these days   :(

Anyone else noticed that, or am I being over-sensitive?


Nope you are not being over sensitive the last video on the 419A was full of multiple plugs for Patreon. It is Irritating but the quality of the content dulls the edge a bit.  :-\
Coffee, Food, R/C and electronics nerd in no particular order. Also CNC wannabe, 3D printer and Laser Cutter Junkie and just don't mention my TEA addiction....
 

Online 0culus

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2208
  • Country: us
  • Electronics, RF, and TEA Hobbyist
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #54512 on: April 04, 2020, 02:10:34 am »
I like Paul's work (and I'm super jealous of his lab space), but I do agree he seems to think very highly of his own designs. Which is fine, but sometimes one gets the feeling that he toots his own horn a lot. I've found without fail that most of the time the very smartest people in the room seldom call attention to that fact unnecessarily.

That said, I think the good outweighs the bad with his content. He is extremely detail oriented and doesn't do flashy annoying video intros where the first thing outta the presenter's mouth is "Like! Comment! Subscribe!!!"
 

Online 0culus

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2208
  • Country: us
  • Electronics, RF, and TEA Hobbyist
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #54513 on: April 04, 2020, 02:14:23 am »
Earlier this week, I got a nifty little package, containing a very nice condition 4332A LCR meter. This is a Yokogawa product like most (all?) HP LCR meters. Unfortunately, it wasn't working. The most obvious thing was a cremated 100 ohm resistor on the A4 board. This probably resulted from someone applying a too-large signal to the guard terminal. Replaced that, but still no go. The oscillator (which also didn't work at some range settings) was stuck at 12.3 KHz rather than switching between 1 KHz and 100 KHz depending on range. After much troubleshooting (with help from a kind person on the HPAK list), I by chance unsoldered A1Q1 (an P-channel FET) to test it out of circuit, which didn't go anywhere. I soldered it back in....and it was working now? Looks like either a cold solder joint or (hopefully not) an intermittent lead on A1Q1.

Anyway, I aligned the meter movement, and it seems to be working now.  :-+

Note -hp- calculator porn in photo, placed carefully for @nixiefreqq.  >:D


i AM jealous of the meter collection.  especially the 4332a.

got frustrated trying to snag one a couple of years ago and finally gave up.  bought an analog discovery 2 instead. (but still have an itch for a swinging needle lcr meter.)

ps  was fixated on the meters and probably would not have noticed the rpn irritant.   thanks for pointing it out. (sarcasm alert for those with out a suitable detector)

Hahaha, see? Nixies absolve a lot of sins.  :-DD


I'm working on my second 3440A/3444A tonight. I replaced a 390uF/10V cap that had vomited it's electrolyte (fortunately, mostly on itself!) in the 3444A with a modern Vishay one. That replacement set me back $33 US on DigiKey.  :o But, it works. The meter now sits happily at a stable zero with nothing going on instead of refusing to settle down. 
 

Offline med6753

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6024
  • Country: us
  • Tek nut
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #54514 on: April 04, 2020, 02:47:15 am »
Oh, mnem's mention of Tek terminal strips reminded me of a recent Mr Carlson's Lab vid, on a Tek UT5 scope calibrator.

I do like his stuff, nice and relaxed presentation, but must admit, I'm not liking the way he seems to be constantly pimping his cap tester these days   :(

Anyone else noticed that, or am I being over-sensitive?


Nope you are not being over sensitive the last video on the 419A was full of multiple plugs for Patreon. It is Irritating but the quality of the content dulls the edge a bit.  :-\


I like Paul's work (and I'm super jealous of his lab space), but I do agree he seems to think very highly of his own designs. Which is fine, but sometimes one gets the feeling that he toots his own horn a lot. I've found without fail that most of the time the very smartest people in the room seldom call attention to that fact unnecessarily.

That said, I think the good outweighs the bad with his content. He is extremely detail oriented and doesn't do flashy annoying video intros where the first thing outta the presenter's mouth is "Like! Comment! Subscribe!!!"

Agree on all points. Paul is extremely knowledgeable and provides excellent presentation but does seem to toot the horn a bit. That said his videos are very interesting and I enjoy them. He recently did a quick tear down of a Pioneer vacuum tube receiver and I had no idea Pioneer even made vacuum tube gear. I really wonder where he finds some of this stuff and if you catch quick views of his other lab he has all kinds of neat vintage stuff on the shelves.   
An old gray beard with an attitude.
 

Offline Brumby

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 10027
  • Country: au
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #54515 on: April 04, 2020, 03:10:51 am »
Sarchasm: The enormous gulf between your eloquent, pithy remark and the daft git who just doesn't get it.

Haven't heard that one before.

I like it!   :-+
 

Offline Cerebus

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4857
  • Country: gb
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #54516 on: April 04, 2020, 03:14:41 am »
Sarchasm: The enormous gulf between your eloquent, pithy remark and the daft git who just doesn't get it.

Haven't heard that one before.

Probably because you were on the other side of the chasm. [ paradiddle, rimshot, cymbal crash ]
Anybody got a syringe I can use to squeeze the magic smoke back into this?
 

Offline Brumby

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 10027
  • Country: au
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #54517 on: April 04, 2020, 03:26:44 am »
(At the risk of getting an unflattering answer...)

Do you mean the daft side or the non-daft side?

Click..click..click..click..click... ...click-clack.  Ready.
 

Offline mansaxel

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 596
  • Country: se
  • SA0XLR
    • My very static home page
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #54518 on: April 04, 2020, 03:30:15 am »
I've got a slightly newer Cliff quicktest somewhere. I think I've only used it a few times as I rarely do anything mains side that isn't dead simple or encapsulated. So much so I actually got rid of my scariac and isolation transformer a couple of years back now.

As for megger, yeah something like that would do the job. I did notice the Chinese have come up with some options in the £30 bracket though which are interesting. Good to 1KV which is fine for giving the odd hooky looking transformer a poke before you kill yourself with it.

Yes, I borrowed the pic, mine's a fairly new RS branded something, and it is useful a couple times per year. A very British thing it is. I learnt about it in the 90s when I worked at a small disco and AV install company. We imported quite a lot of kit from the UK, and the boss had seen a Safebloc on a visit to Jem, the smoke machine manufacturer now a part of Samsung via a series of take-overs..

The Evershed & Vignoles one is internally limited to 500V, so while painful, I mean "educational", might not fill the need for 1KV, especially so since it's a cranker. (a mighty useless transfer standard, that, unless you're very good at precision cranking.  :-DD )

Offline mansaxel

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 596
  • Country: se
  • SA0XLR
    • My very static home page
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #54519 on: April 04, 2020, 03:34:12 am »
Earlier this week, I got a nifty little package, containing a very nice condition 4332A LCR meter.

How cute. Yes, I need a DE-5000, but i want a 4332A.

'Ah 'spose it means i'm at the right place, innit?

Offline Cerebus

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4857
  • Country: gb
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #54520 on: April 04, 2020, 03:35:40 am »
(At the risk of getting an unflattering answer...)

Do you mean the daft side or the non-daft side?

Click..click..click..click..click... ...click-clack.  Ready.

You're assuming that, amongst the bunch of monkeys you've chosen to hang out with here, that there is a non-daft side. I fear that you many be wrong.
Anybody got a syringe I can use to squeeze the magic smoke back into this?
 

Offline mansaxel

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 596
  • Country: se
  • SA0XLR
    • My very static home page
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #54521 on: April 04, 2020, 04:08:46 am »
You're assuming that, amongst the bunch of monkeys you've chosen to hang out with here, that there is a non-daft side. I fear that you many be wrong.

We're all daft (or rather "much less sensitive to detail") in some vector. Life becomes more bearable that way.

/M, hyper-cardioid. It's the back lobes that make me unpredictable..

Online 0culus

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2208
  • Country: us
  • Electronics, RF, and TEA Hobbyist
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #54522 on: April 04, 2020, 04:14:13 am »
Earlier this week, I got a nifty little package, containing a very nice condition 4332A LCR meter.

How cute. Yes, I need a DE-5000, but i want a 4332A.

'Ah 'spose it means i'm at the right place, innit?

The DE-5000 can't replicate the swinging needle.  >:D It would be nice to have both.  :-+
 

Offline beanflying

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5179
  • Country: au
  • Toys so very many Toys.
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #54523 on: April 04, 2020, 04:21:37 am »
No overkill here. 6 1/2 digit continuity tester during a power tool repair ;D
Coffee, Food, R/C and electronics nerd in no particular order. Also CNC wannabe, 3D printer and Laser Cutter Junkie and just don't mention my TEA addiction....
 
The following users thanked this post: edavid, mnementh, Mortymore

Offline URI

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 580
  • Country: de
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #54524 on: April 04, 2020, 05:11:41 am »
[..]
@BU508A, it's a 2-way thing. I just raised "schadenfreude" as we were talking about humour. It's probably my favourite German word after "Donaudampfschiffahrtsgesellschaftskapitän".
[..]


May I extend that a little bit for you, just a random thought:

"Donaudampfschiffahrtsgesellschaftskapitänskajütenbullaugenausblick"   >:D   :-DD
A life without TEA is possible but pointless.
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf