Author Topic: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread  (Read 3353857 times)

sarahMCML, tautech, djadeski, med6753, K0ELB, tggzzz, Specmaster, mnementh and 34 Guests are viewing this topic.

Online mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #62325 on: July 02, 2020, 07:07:01 pm »
Recapping the 2465. All the RIFAs are gone already. Now what? Get rid of all the PSU elcos? They actually look in decent shape.. What about the ones on the analog board? Do they suffer much? Should they be replaced? Don't look too bad either...

Med has an EXCELLENT article on doing the recap starting here: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/tektronix-2465b-oscilloscope-teardown/msg1658102/#msg1658102

It breaks the regulator board and inverter board into 2 easily digestible sections in 2 posts.  :-+



Short version: You're going to replace all the electrolytics except the 2 huge blue axials. Also look for the little RIFAs & bead tants shown above and check those diodes (replace them all if any one is open or drastically different resistance than the others) and that resistor to make sure it hasn't shifted value, even if it doesn't LOOK toasted.

I've also attached a well-known .pdf of this service procedure from CondorAudio below; it is the source of the photo above. There are electrolytics on the A5 board that commonly fail causing electrolyte damage; it also has their locations. ;)

Good hunting!  :-+

mnem
 :-BROKE
« Last Edit: July 02, 2020, 07:20:59 pm by mnementh »
 

Offline tonyalbus

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #62326 on: July 02, 2020, 07:13:39 pm »
Ebay strikes again, well to be more precise, eBay sellers strike again. I won this insulation tester which was photographed working, oh hell yeah.

As soon as I received it I switched it on, nothing, so I opened it up expecting that the seller had removed the batteries, nope, what a disgusting mess I found. I took photos and opened up a dispute via eBay this afternoon within minutes of receiving it from the postman. Within 30 minutes I had a full refund and the seller has sent me a returns label, so I'll be sending it back tomorrow. I have asked him if he really wants me to return it or bin it, save him the job of doing it?

He was very apologetic though, saying that had been in the left while since he put the batteries in, and he thought that he tested it before sending it to me, this somehow I doubt, but at least it is resolved and speedily, I have been once to often by sellers who have played for time, so I don't give them the option now. :phew:

some sellers.......
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Offline fkfaraz

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #62327 on: July 02, 2020, 07:17:19 pm »
hello @mnementh

nice review and nice lCR tweezer.

this particular mastech tweezer was on my shopping list before COVID-19 started. |O

it has 0.15v rms output testing voltage with selectable frequency range(i think up to 10khz). so i was thinking can it be used to measure the esr of el cap. :-\ ( obviously only for repair works not for designing work). comparing the result with ur de5000 will be intersting

in fect  i remember a youtube review about it and in the comment section someone was asking about the same. the reviewr replied affirmatively.
 
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Online mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #62328 on: July 02, 2020, 07:34:55 pm »
Well, "ESR" (as measured by common testers available nowadays) and Delta tan are two different things. The short version is that tan δ is a function of the Q of a capacitor, factoring ESR vs Reactance, and is a spec usually available from the capacitor's datasheet for comparison which you can validate directly against a meter with tan δ.

"ESR" values measured by common ESR testers and Chinese component testers are much more ummm... variable and really only valid as a quick go/no-go diag tool. ;) I'm kindof in the middle of sorting zillions of photos to put in a digital photo frame for my dad right now; that's my priority. Hopefully I'll have a little bench playtime in the middle of packing to move... :o

mnem
 :popcorn:
« Last Edit: July 02, 2020, 08:00:47 pm by mnementh »
 

Offline Cerebus

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #62329 on: July 02, 2020, 07:52:09 pm »
I have started looking into aligning the 585A. Vertical alignment seems excellent, timebase alignment not so much. Lucky I have a freshly repaired and aligned Type 184! I was doing great till I got to the point of adjusting the .05 uS/cm setting. It seems someone before me fuxxored C348, which is the variable cap that adjusts the sweep rate for this setting. The screwdriver slot is totally broken off from the internals...it just spins.   :palm: :-- :--

Good thing the vertical amp is in alignment. You really don't want to mess with that cascaded type circuit unless you really have to.

I was wondering when you were going to find signs of Gorilla activity.  Magilla seems to get around.  :-DD It's a 3pf - 12pf trimmer. You should be able to come up with a replacement even if it isn't exact. As long as it covers most of that range you should be OK. 

Edit.....I have some parts only plug-in's here. I'll check later today and see if one of them has a trimmer cap close to that value.

Yeah, it had to be somewhere. At least this one is an easy to get to... some of the others are buried pretty deep.

Thanks, that would be awesome if you have one. Feel free to drop me a message if you do and I’ll send you my address and such.

Here you go. 5.5pf - 18pf trimmer. Out of a 465 timing board. Not an exact match but should get you there. I tried testing it but not getting valid readings. The value is so small that stray capacitance is fooling the DMM. But I see no reason why it shouldn't be OK.

If you want it PM me and I'll get it in the mail tomorrow.



Sure the part is still OK ? Looks like from a slightly overpowered RF transmitter filter  >:D

If you look very well it even says FRIES  :-DD

Where's the mayonnaise ???
Anybody got a syringe I can use to squeeze the magic smoke back into this?
 

Offline Ice-Tea

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #62330 on: July 02, 2020, 08:00:22 pm »
Recapping the 2465. All the RIFAs are gone already. Now what? Get rid of all the PSU elcos? They actually look in decent shape.. What about the ones on the analog board? Do they suffer much? Should they be replaced? Don't look too bad either...

Med has an EXCELLENT article on doing the recap starting here: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/tektronix-2465b-oscilloscope-teardown/msg1658102/#msg1658102

It breaks the regulator board and inverter board into 2 easily digestible sections in 2 posts.  :-+



Short version: You're going to replace all the electrolytics except the 2 huge blue axials. Also look for the little RIFAs & bead tants shown above and check those diodes (replace them all if any one is open or drastically different resistance than the others) and that resistor to make sure it hasn't shifted value, even if it doesn't LOOK toasted.

I've also attached a well-known .pdf of this service procedure from CondorAudio below; it is the source of the photo above. There are electrolytics on the A5 board that commonly fail causing electrolyte damage; it also has their locations. ;)

Good hunting!  :-+

mnem
 :-BROKE

Was just reading the Condoraudio document. CAN SOMEBODY PLEASE JUST TELL ME I NEED TO REPLACE A SINGLE CAP AND ALL WILL BE FINE???

NO?

Then FU all.

Also: thanks mnem. Reading Meds stuff ;)
 
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Re: mnem's Bench: MasTech MS-8911 LCR Tweezer Mini-Review
« Reply #62331 on: July 02, 2020, 09:19:17 pm »


So... yesterday's Canada Post had 2 packages; it was package number B that REALLY made me go SQUEEEE!!!

As a result of goading by Kosmic (and because I felt a need for something NEW on the bench), I bought a MasTech 8911 just to see if it was as much better than my MS8910 as people say... 
Still waiting for mine. Everything is so slow these days.

Wanna come on down and play with mine for a while...? I'll BBQ up some pork chops and baked taters for dinner. >:D

mnem

                "ROAD TRIP!!!"

Sound like fun  :)

Funny how I spend most of my time home now but still working full time  :phew:

My Office is not supposed to open until the end of the summer. Even if it's open, it's unclear if I would be able to go back :(
« Last Edit: July 02, 2020, 09:24:39 pm by Kosmic »
 

Online mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #62332 on: July 02, 2020, 09:55:01 pm »
*Sigh*

Sounds like heaven to me. You know; the working full-time thing. Would mean something has moved forward in our immigration, and we'd no longer be in limbo... |O

The offer is genuine; would love to visit.

Cheers,

mnem
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Offline BU508A

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #62333 on: July 02, 2020, 10:16:40 pm »
<RANT>
I hate the German Telekom! Arrogant fucking incompetent bastards!
To be exact: I hate some of ther managers, which decides dumb things!

But let me tell the story from the beginning ...

What we have:
- A friend of mine, let's call her Bärbel
- me, as the guy who knows one or two things about Internet, DSL, IP, administration etc.
- a place at the edge of known civilization where Bärbel is living
- German Telekom
- German Telekom hotline
- the guy at the hotline, let's call him Mr. Hardison

Bärbel needs internet access and asked me, if I could help her with this stuff, because she's not very experienced in this kind of technical things. Okay, why not, sounds like an easy job.
I checked, what the available options are at her place. No DSL available via copper wire. Fibre will be available in two or three years, so the only option left was this LTE "Magenta für zu Hause" (magenta at home) from the German Telekom.

Ok, fine. Did a list of the hardware needed:
- AVM Fritz!Box 6890 for the LTE connection
- 2x media converters copper - fibre
- 1x AVM Fritz! Repeater 3000
- 1x Fritz!Fon C5
- 50m fibre cable with plugs

I need to place the 6890 directly under the roof of the house, because otherwise there will be no radio reception because of the dead zone because of the geography where she is living (end of a valley with some high hills nearby). Edge of civilization.
The plan is to connect the repeater in her appartment via the fibre cable with the 6890.

This week all gear arrived and I set it up in my lab for configuring and testing.
All worked well except for one thing: this bloody phone is refusing to connect.
So I called the hotline of the German Telekom and after listening to this Warteschleifengedudel for about 45min, Mr Hardison picked up my call. I explained him the situation and he did some checkings . After some discussions with him (and him with his boss), he concluded to this:

I need to connect the 6890 to the telephone line connection box. VoIP via LTE is not possible.

[...]

WHAT?!?   :wtf:

I asked him, if he is really serious about this.
He confirmed.
Twice.
With his boss.

 :palm: :palm: :palm: :palm:

The German Telekom is NOT able to do VoIP traffic via an LTE connection.   |O   |O   |O
To be clear: Mr. Hardison did a very good job and he couldn't understand either, why this shouldn't be possible.

May those bloody bastards of incompetent, dumb and arrogant managers from the German Telekom burn in hell for this stupid decision!
Together with a 24/7 acoustic irradiation of their Warteschleifengedudel from evil madness!

Now I have to explain this to Bärbel, that we need another wire because of the incompetence of the Telekom.

Really! I hate the German Telekom. Parts of them.
</RANT>

Now I'm feeling a little bit better.
Thanks for listening.


Warteschleifengedudel = hold/elevator music in a waiting loop
“Chaos is found in greatest abundance wherever order is being sought. It always defeats order, because it is better organized.”            - Terry Pratchett -
 

Online xrunner

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #62334 on: July 02, 2020, 11:24:04 pm »
I hate the German Telekom! Arrogant fucking incompetent bastards!

Sounds like me talking about the local cable company.  :-DD
I am a Test Equipment Addict (TEA) - by virtue of this forum signature, I have now faced my addiction
 

Online mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #62335 on: July 03, 2020, 12:12:52 am »
The problem is you told them it's a internet connection. Tell them it's a iPwn; they'll get you hooked right up.  :-DD

mnem
*only half-joking*
 

Offline Neomys Sapiens

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #62336 on: July 03, 2020, 01:43:44 am »
<RANT>
I hate the German Telekom! Arrogant fucking incompetent bastards!
To be exact: I hate some of ther managers, which decides dumb things!

But let me tell the story from the beginning ...

What we have:
- A friend of mine, let's call her Bärbel
- me, as the guy who knows one or two things about Internet, DSL, IP, administration etc.
- a place at the edge of known civilization where Bärbel is living
- German Telekom
- German Telekom hotline
- the guy at the hotline, let's call him Mr. Hardison

Bärbel needs internet access and asked me, if I could help her with this stuff, because she's not very experienced in this kind of technical things. Okay, why not, sounds like an easy job.
I checked, what the available options are at her place. No DSL available via copper wire. Fibre will be available in two or three years, so the only option left was this LTE "Magenta für zu Hause" (magenta at home) from the German Telekom.

Ok, fine. Did a list of the hardware needed:
- AVM Fritz!Box 6890 for the LTE connection
- 2x media converters copper - fibre
- 1x AVM Fritz! Repeater 3000
- 1x Fritz!Fon C5
- 50m fibre cable with plugs

I need to place the 6890 directly under the roof of the house, because otherwise there will be no radio reception because of the dead zone because of the geography where she is living (end of a valley with some high hills nearby). Edge of civilization.
The plan is to connect the repeater in her appartment via the fibre cable with the 6890.

This week all gear arrived and I set it up in my lab for configuring and testing.
All worked well except for one thing: this bloody phone is refusing to connect.
So I called the hotline of the German Telekom and after listening to this Warteschleifengedudel for about 45min, Mr Hardison picked up my call. I explained him the situation and he did some checkings . After some discussions with him (and him with his boss), he concluded to this:

I need to connect the 6890 to the telephone line connection box. VoIP via LTE is not possible.

[...]

WHAT?!?   :wtf:

I asked him, if he is really serious about this.
He confirmed.
Twice.
With his boss.

 :palm: :palm: :palm: :palm:

The German Telekom is NOT able to do VoIP traffic via an LTE connection.   |O   |O   |O
To be clear: Mr. Hardison did a very good job and he couldn't understand either, why this shouldn't be possible.

May those bloody bastards of incompetent, dumb and arrogant managers from the German Telekom burn in hell for this stupid decision!
Together with a 24/7 acoustic irradiation of their Warteschleifengedudel from evil madness!

Now I have to explain this to Bärbel, that we need another wire because of the incompetence of the Telekom.

Really! I hate the German Telekom. Parts of them.
</RANT>

Now I'm feeling a little bit better.
Thanks for listening.


Warteschleifengedudel = hold/elevator music in a waiting loop
TFOAR Neumayer wittert den Erzfeind eines geordneten Fernmeldebetriebs: ATYPISCHES NUTZERVERHALTEN!
 

Online mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #62337 on: July 03, 2020, 03:00:42 am »
 :-DD

Wie können Sie es wagen, Ihr drahtloses Telefoniegerät als Telefon zu verwenden?!?

mnem
*toddles off to ded*
« Last Edit: July 03, 2020, 03:06:35 am by mnementh »
 
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Offline worsthorse

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #62338 on: July 03, 2020, 03:27:15 am »
Spent a couple of hours today, going through the pile of stuff i acquired during my last trip south. First up was an unlabeled directional coupler, which worked and appears to have a bandwidth of 500MHz to n GHz, where n is greater than 2 (the top end of my SA).  Next was a HP 33304 11dB programmable attenuator, for which I can find no documentation, so I set it aside.  Last up was this Alan Industries attenuator, which was sold to aeronautics manufacturers:

 

These screws seem to be calibration adjustments:



As you can see, there are two broken switches and a simple test of feeding a sine wave into one end results in nothing coming out the other.  I decided to take it apart and see what was inside. This has proven harder than I might have imagined.  I removed all the screws from the bottom. No joy.  I removed the nuts securing the switches to the top of the case. Again, no joy. 

The flat bottom piece of the case is clearly separate from the rest of the case, that is, there is a visible seam. There are also four holes on the top, which are threaded and end in blank metal, too

Anyone here ever worked on anything like this? Any idea how to take it apart?
specialization is for insects.
 
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Online mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #62339 on: July 03, 2020, 03:34:15 am »
Got C-4...?

mnem
 >:D
 

Offline 0culus

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #62340 on: July 03, 2020, 03:37:37 am »
You might need something thin to slip between the halves to start jimmying it. If it's anything like HP directional couplers such as the 778D it's a little fortress and will not come apart easily.
 
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Offline worsthorse

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #62341 on: July 03, 2020, 04:14:11 am »
Got C-4...?

mnem
 >:D

that's usually option C around here.   ;)

You might need something thin to slip between the halves to start jimmying it. If it's anything like HP directional couplers such as the 778D it's a little fortress and will not come apart easily.

given the thickness of the metal plate, fortress is a good description. i thought, maybe that the whole attenuator is mounted to the bottom plate (including the switches) which is why i removed the nuts on the switches, too. on the HP attenuators, is this just a friction fit? i can't imagine it is more than that but it is clearly not meant to be casually dis-assembled.

which, of course, inspires me all the more to get it apart.

« Last Edit: July 03, 2020, 04:17:39 am by worsthorse »
specialization is for insects.
 
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Offline BravoV

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #62342 on: July 03, 2020, 04:39:35 am »
Guys & gals, whats the point of having more than one of GPSDOs ?  :palm:

Offline AVGresponding

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #62343 on: July 03, 2020, 05:09:05 am »
Guys & gals, whats the point of having more than one of GPSDOs ?  :palm:

So that you can be reasonably confident that the other 6 are giving nominally accurate readings.
nuqDaq yuch Dapol?
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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #62344 on: July 03, 2020, 06:04:52 am »
Guys & gals, whats the point of having more than one of GPSDOs ?  :palm:

..checking them against each other. And against the rubidium oscillators collected over the years.

Main purpose is checking the resolution and precision of your frequency counters and making long term measurements with them checking for correlation with e.g. temperature, solar altitude, different DC power-filtering, variation of solar activity, of course.   >:D   :popcorn:
A life without TEA is possible but pointless.
 
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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #62345 on: July 03, 2020, 06:25:35 am »
Was just reading the Condoraudio document. CAN SOMEBODY PLEASE JUST TELL ME I NEED TO REPLACE A SINGLE CAP AND ALL WILL BE FINE???

Yes, you can replace a single cap and all will be fine. Provided you replace the correct cap, that is  >:D
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #62346 on: July 03, 2020, 06:32:32 am »
Spent a couple of hours today, going through the pile of stuff i acquired during my last trip south. First up was an unlabeled directional coupler, which worked and appears to have a bandwidth of 500MHz to n GHz, where n is greater than 2 (the top end of my SA).  Next was a HP 33304 11dB programmable attenuator, for which I can find no documentation, so I set it aside.

DC-18GHz. Pulse of 24V changes the position of the latching relay.

https://nscainc.com/wp-content/uploads/pdf/A_33300.pdf
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less
 

Offline tonyalbus

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #62347 on: July 03, 2020, 07:41:52 am »
Funny i never hear bad things about dutch telecom..   |O :-DD
but now everything runs on tv cable here 250/25 MB :)
Electronics enthusiast, TEA and Radio Amateur (PE1ONS)
Marconi 2955/2432A/2414A - TTi TF930/TF600/TG102 - HP5302/5315/5323/5385/3478 - Fluke 8000/8010/8125 - SDS1202X-E -XDM2041 - TEK 475 - Anritsu MS610/MF1603 - Keitley 199 - PM2521/2522/2527
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Offline capt bullshot

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #62348 on: July 03, 2020, 07:46:29 am »
<RANT>
I hate the German Telekom! Arrogant fucking incompetent bastards!
To be exact: I hate some of ther managers, which decides dumb things!
...

It's all the customer lock-in stuff. Someone decided Telekom won't let you use your SIP accounts anywhere else than through this particular land line that they rent to you. No matter if it's POTS or VoIP. So they won't allow you to route their SIP accounts through their LTE since it's not that particular wire you pay for. Other vendors SIP accounts work fine, either directly through LTE or with the help of  a VPN connection.
Safety devices hinder evolution
 
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Offline RolandK

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #62349 on: July 03, 2020, 08:20:09 am »
<RANT>
I hate the German Telekom! Arrogant fucking incompetent bastards!
To be exact: I hate some of ther managers, which decides dumb things!

....

I need to connect the 6890 to the telephone line connection box. VoIP via LTE is not possible.

[...]


</RANT>

No, they can. Like all germany wireless communication provider they don't want. They just block the VOIP port. If you can VPN over a proxy at a hard wire internet connection it will work fine. Or if you find an VOIP Provicer with "unusual" ports.
 


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