Author Topic: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread  (Read 3456171 times)

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Offline factory

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #65400 on: August 03, 2020, 05:55:32 pm »
Ok 3478A test report:

1. RIFAs are good. No sign of cracking. Will replace anyway.
2. Main filter cap tests good for ESR.
3. Battery backup at 3.044V. Need to work out if that's ok to leave or not.
4. Self test passes.
5. DC volts -> works fine. Agrees to the mV with the 8060A
6. AC volts -> works fine. Agrees to the mV with the 8060A.
7. DC amps -> works fine. Agrees to the mA with the 8060A.
8. Resistance -> works fine. Agress to the ohm with the 8060A.
9. All keyboard buttons work.
10. Front and rear jacks work fine as does the switch.
11. AC amps untested. I'll do that another day but I don't need it really.

That's a win!

Definite win!  :-+

guys i have seen the term RIFA a lot...what kind of caps are those... other then smelly things if they go wrong on you?
any pictures?
With what you replace them?

Try this

Replacing them with corresponding X2 and Y2 capacitors from other brands, e.g. WIMA, Kemet, ...

Kemet took over RIFA and WIMA also make some paper crapacitors too. I really don't know why they still make these, they should have disappeared decades ago, at work we have had RIFA/Kemet paper crapacitors go open circuit after less than 5 years in service.

Note: not all the RIFA capacitors in the translucent yellow casings are paper based, you need to read the data-sheets to find out if they are paper or plastic film types.

A long thread about these crapacitors on the vintage radio forum; https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/showthread.php?t=69128

David
« Last Edit: August 03, 2020, 06:03:32 pm by factory »
 
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Offline mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #65401 on: August 03, 2020, 06:00:49 pm »
Yebbutt... don't all of them in that package eventually craze and crack, making them a liability anyways...?

mnem
 :-/O
 

Online bd139

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #65402 on: August 03, 2020, 06:21:28 pm »
Bingo. Sorted



 
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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #65403 on: August 03, 2020, 06:22:35 pm »
Yeah, see, that's the problem. Up here, it doesn't appear you CAN buy anything but the minis; I haven't seen a regular BIC lighter since I escaped the DFU territories. Maybe it's some safety regulation about the amount of liquid butane per unit, I dunno. The single most common lighter I've seen is a 3-pack of BIC minis.  :-//

Missed the bit about "amount of liquid butane per unit" the first time around. Some might think that sounds a bit 'nanny state' and usually I'd agree. But, many years ago a friend/colleague had a disposable light shatter in his hand just as he was striking it. Ye gods it made a mess of him. He eventually recovered but it took months, a lot of pain and left scars. So this is one occasion where, if that is the reason behind the local absence of 'full size' Bics, I'm not going to criticise.

Weird...  Must be a local or Ontario thing.  Out West here the standard (big) ones are the norm, with the minis more difficult to find, not that I have any idea why you'd want the minis. 

They are very convenient if you want portable fire but you don't want it to take up space or weight. Now, that sounds like statin' the bleedin' obvious but it's not meant to be. A smoker is quite happy to devote space to a lighter, but someone who just wants constant access to fire might carry one in the same way someone will put one of those single AAA Maglites on their keyring  "just in case". It's so small that the extra burden is acceptable for something that may get little frequent use.

Assuming you have a way to keep it charged, those electric arc lighters could work. I had a friend in college who was not a smoker but he carried one just in case. It could easily ignite just about anything that could be ignired with a lighter.
 

Online bd139

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #65404 on: August 03, 2020, 06:26:04 pm »
@bd139, Those batteries on the 3478A are a BT701 and are only 3V anyway so I would say that it is fine safely leave the battery as it is.

Thanks - that's the plan. I will lurk for a USB GPIB interface I think and grab one if it turns up, then tackle it after I've backed up the cal data  :-DD
Absolutely no need to do that, pull down a data sheet on the RAM chip and you'll be pleasantly surprised to see that it is down to 1.6V

Yeah plenty of room left. Will leave it. Have ordered EPCOS and Vishay replacements for the RIFAs as they are dirt cheap.
 
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Offline factory

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #65405 on: August 03, 2020, 07:02:27 pm »
Yebbutt... don't all of them in that package eventually craze and crack, making them a liability anyways...?

mnem
 :-/O

Yes they may craze, but it's the paper/metal dielectric that is the main problem, it slowly absorbs moisture & dries in a continuous cycle over decades, the paper/metal slowly expands and makes the cracking problem worse, enough moisture combined with mains voltage results in the infamous failure mode.

I tested some paper RIFA's that were removed from the multi-stage thermostats at work years ago, they were left in a small amount of water, this was topped up over a few days/week (can't remember how long), some of them had expanded & cracked very badly after this time. They were removed & dried and subjected to a Megger test (low current), one or two were arcing inside & getting slightly warmer, one even created the distinctive & horrible smell.

Following this all NOS RIFA paper crapacitors in the storeroom were dumped in the e-waste bin.

David
« Last Edit: August 03, 2020, 07:48:31 pm by factory »
 

Offline nixiefreqq

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #65406 on: August 03, 2020, 07:02:50 pm »
was busy last week.  snagged an 8620c chassis for 30 bucks plus 10 buck s&h.

then grabbed a 5.9 to 9 Ghz plug in for 30 bucks and 12 s&h. 

never expected in my 30's  to live long enough to afford to have an hp sweeper on my bench.

to quote the bard of avon  ---- "O excellent! I love long life better than figs."



ps  why did i need a 5.9 - 9 ghz signal source?   already had generators up to 6 Ghz.  and a homebrew yig sweeper that covered 8.5 -12 Ghz.  that left me with a capability void (and that created a void in my very being).




« Last Edit: August 03, 2020, 07:12:19 pm by nixiefreqq »
free range primate
 
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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #65407 on: August 03, 2020, 07:05:58 pm »
Bingo. Sorted



Nice job!

that would look great with my TTi TF930 ;-)
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Offline mansaxel

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #65408 on: August 03, 2020, 07:17:44 pm »
@bd139, Those batteries on the 3478A are a BT701 and are only 3V anyway so I would say that it is fine safely leave the battery as it is.

Do read up on the voltage vs time curves of those batteries before you trust a simple voltage reading.  The fitted batteries tend to sink very fast at the end of their design life, and thus it is better to apply an "Army" style of maintenance scheme, ie. "You will replace this within set intervals, discussion closed" than to try being clever ;-)

There is a nice thread on here that is a good start on the subject.


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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #65409 on: August 03, 2020, 07:38:11 pm »
@bd139, Those batteries on the 3478A are a BT701 and are only 3V anyway so I would say that it is fine safely leave the battery as it is.

Do read up on the voltage vs time curves of those batteries before you trust a simple voltage reading.  The fitted batteries tend to sink very fast at the end of their design life, and thus it is better to apply an "Army" style of maintenance scheme, ie. "You will replace this within set intervals, discussion closed" than to try being clever ;-)

There is a nice thread on here that is a good start on the subject.


While that might well be true, you can never be sure about the age of the replacement battery you obtain, it might be new old stock, who knows. Seeing as its nominal voltage is 3.0V anyway, the battery being swapped out, could even be younger than its replacement.

Unless the meter is going to be left switched OFF for very long periods then it is extremely unlikely that the battery voltage is going to drop below the 1.6V required as a minimum by the RAM chip to retain its calibration data, since every time the meter is powered up, the battery has a voltage of 3.2v applied to it by the power supply so it will be slowly recharged during use. This website explains it. http://www.azurelectronics.com/HP%203478A%20Multi-Meter.htm
« Last Edit: August 03, 2020, 07:45:11 pm by Specmaster »
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Offline AVGresponding

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #65410 on: August 03, 2020, 07:50:56 pm »
Don't know what is worst:

1) Stickers
2) Permanet Marker
3) Nicotine layer
4) White plastic going yellowish
5) Scratches on display

First check is always is something is rattling inside, then I open the puppy up.

Ohh I need to buy something now...

The only one of these that bothers me is a layer of nicotine/tar.

The others are just the evidence of the life the item has had, its history.

I suppose if anything interfered with the functionality I'd still remove/repair it.


Keithley 197 arrived today, nice shade of brown but I still want a square one...


The 2A fuse had been replaced with a 3.2A one. Yeah, that's not suspicious at all...

Yep, low current ranges are borked. Need to peruse the service manual and have a look at how hard it's likely to be to find the problem. Guessing toasted input resistor network, as in the pic you can see the 8840 is in series and showing a current flow of just 40uA, pretty much down in the noise for that meter. The source is my TTi EX354D, set at 104mA or so.

Fortunately elektrotanya had the manual.

The obligatory topless pic:

Naturally I used the opportunity to remove the tilting stand at this point   ^-^

The rear end provides some interesting information:

Keeping an eye on the competition? Or maybe Fluke engineers prefer Keithley meters..!   :-DD :-// :popcorn:


In non-TE news, I received my Star Trek Voyager complete box set today. Except... no I didn't, instead I have received a Star Trek TNG complete DVD box set, which is not just wrong, it's completely useless to me as I have the BluRay set already   :palm:
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Offline factory

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #65411 on: August 03, 2020, 08:01:52 pm »
@bd139, Those batteries on the 3478A are a BT701 and are only 3V anyway so I would say that it is fine safely leave the battery as it is.

Do read up on the voltage vs time curves of those batteries before you trust a simple voltage reading.  The fitted batteries tend to sink very fast at the end of their design life, and thus it is better to apply an "Army" style of maintenance scheme, ie. "You will replace this within set intervals, discussion closed" than to try being clever ;-)

There is a nice thread on here that is a good start on the subject.


While that might well be true, you can never be sure about the age of the replacement battery you obtain, it might be new old stock, who knows. Seeing as its nominal voltage is 3.0V anyway, the battery being swapped out, could even be younger than its replacement.

Unless the meter is going to be left switched OFF for very long periods then it is extremely unlikely that the battery voltage is going to drop below the 1.6V required as a minimum by the RAM chip to retain its calibration data, since every time the meter is powered up, the battery has a voltage of 3.2v applied to it by the power supply so it will be slowly recharged during use. This website explains it. http://www.azurelectronics.com/HP%203478A%20Multi-Meter.htm

Is that correct? HP part number 1420-0278 mentioned on the "azure" link above is described as non-chargeable on this site;
https://www.parttarget.com/6135-01-276-5402_6135012765402_1420-0278.html/-C26B9992-B3BB-49E9-92A9-F829ACBE03DA

Edit: added part of the circuit showing the battery, I can't see how this would re-charge.  :palm:


David
« Last Edit: August 03, 2020, 08:17:18 pm by factory »
 

Offline AVGresponding

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #65412 on: August 03, 2020, 08:26:14 pm »
Edit: added part of the circuit showing the battery, I can't see how this would re-charge.  :palm:


David

Well there's gonna be some reverse leakage current through that diode...   :-DD
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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #65413 on: August 03, 2020, 08:41:21 pm »
@bd139, Those batteries on the 3478A are a BT701 and are only 3V anyway so I would say that it is fine safely leave the battery as it is.

Do read up on the voltage vs time curves of those batteries before you trust a simple voltage reading.  The fitted batteries tend to sink very fast at the end of their design life, and thus it is better to apply an "Army" style of maintenance scheme, ie. "You will replace this within set intervals, discussion closed" than to try being clever ;-)

There is a nice thread on here that is a good start on the subject.


While that might well be true, you can never be sure about the age of the replacement battery you obtain, it might be new old stock, who knows. Seeing as its nominal voltage is 3.0V anyway, the battery being swapped out, could even be younger than its replacement.

Unless the meter is going to be left switched OFF for very long periods then it is extremely unlikely that the battery voltage is going to drop below the 1.6V required as a minimum by the RAM chip to retain its calibration data, since every time the meter is powered up, the battery has a voltage of 3.2v applied to it by the power supply so it will be slowly recharged during use. This website explains it. http://www.azurelectronics.com/HP%203478A%20Multi-Meter.htm

Is that correct? HP part number 1420-0278 mentioned on the "azure" link above is described as non-chargeable on this site;
https://www.parttarget.com/6135-01-276-5402_6135012765402_1420-0278.html/-C26B9992-B3BB-49E9-92A9-F829ACBE03DA

Edit: added part of the circuit showing the battery, I can't see how this would re-charge.  :palm:


David
IIRC when I had my 3478A and after replacing the BT701 I did measure the voltage across the battery off-line and online and I'm reasonably sure that it did rise to 3.2V across the battery when online. The attached schematic from the manual also shows a different circuit arrangement for the battery, so perhaps it was altered at some point?
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Offline factory

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #65414 on: August 03, 2020, 08:49:39 pm »
The diode is still shown in the same orientation and the battery is described as non-rechargeable on that mil-parts site. Could it be the same thing you get with lithium coin cells, the internal resistance & storage?

David
 

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #65415 on: August 03, 2020, 08:54:53 pm »
Don't know what is worst:

1) Stickers
2) Permanet Marker
3) Nicotine layer
4) White plastic going yellowish
5) Scratches on display

First check is always is something is rattling inside, then I open the puppy up.

Ohh I need to buy something now...

The only one of these that bothers me is a layer of nicotine/tar.

The others are just the evidence of the life the item has had, its history.

I suppose if anything interfered with the functionality I'd still remove/repair it.


Keithley 197 arrived today, nice shade of brown but I still want a square one...


The 2A fuse had been replaced with a 3.2A one. Yeah, that's not suspicious at all...

Yep, low current ranges are borked. Need to peruse the service manual and have a look at how hard it's likely to be to find the problem. Guessing toasted input resistor network, as in the pic you can see the 8840 is in series and showing a current flow of just 40uA, pretty much down in the noise for that meter. The source is my TTi EX354D, set at 104mA or so.

Fortunately elektrotanya had the manual.

The obligatory topless pic:

Naturally I used the opportunity to remove the tilting stand at this point   ^-^

The rear end provides some interesting information:

Keeping an eye on the competition? Or maybe Fluke engineers prefer Keithley meters..!   :-DD :-// :popcorn:


In non-TE news, I received my Star Trek Voyager complete box set today. Except... no I didn't, instead I have received a Star Trek TNG complete DVD box set, which is not just wrong, it's completely useless to me as I have the BluRay set already   :palm:


I've got one of those, so if you need internal voltages measured or whatever just ask.
Anybody got a syringe I can use to squeeze the magic smoke back into this?
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #65416 on: August 03, 2020, 08:58:28 pm »
Nice job!

that would look great with my TTi TF930 ;-)
I'm sure bd139 won't mind sending you a picture of the set if you send him your TF930.
 
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Online Specmaster

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #65417 on: August 03, 2020, 09:31:48 pm »
The diode is still shown in the same orientation and the battery is described as non-rechargeable on that mil-parts site. Could it be the same thing you get with lithium coin cells, the internal resistance & storage?

David
It could be, but as I said, I'm pretty sure the voltage across my BT701 was higher when the meter was switched on. I'm unable to be 100% certain about this now as I no longer have the meter as I decided the 300V maximum voltage range was just too low for some of my work, therefore I flipped it and replaced it with meters capable of 1,000 volt readings. I have just checked the information provided on another site at the times was incorrect, the minimum voltage at the RAM chip uPD5101L is 2.0V and not the 1.6V given by users blog. Interestingly though, one of the meters that I replaced the 3478A with was a Blackstar 4503 which had lost all cal data due to a totally dead battery that leaked all over the PCB, I replaced the battery and gave the PCB many scrubs with IPA to bring it back to health and also recapped it. The battery in that was 2.4V and was charged upto a maximum of 2.7V and it had the same diode in place, but the battery was rechargeable.
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Online BU508A

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #65418 on: August 03, 2020, 09:38:05 pm »
Question for all of you. What common object, other than a ruler, would one use for scale in a photograph that is universal? Yeah, a ruler works but it doesn't have that same visceral feel that, say, a box of matches does.

For the Brits, a standard box of matches would work, but the "standard box of matches" varies in size around the world. A packet of Gitanes is the same size the world over but most people don't have a pack of French Cancer Sticks to hand. A bunch of keys? Pretty universal but you don't really want to embed the key profile of your front door key in a photo for publication. I've been over a few other things in my mind and discounted all of them as not universal enough. Pencil? The ubiquitous Bic? Too long and thin. Cups and cutlery are too variable in size.

I finally hit on a standard pack of playing cards. Right kind of scale, the same size all over the world, something that fits in the hand.

So, can anyone else think of a common household object that is truly universal worldwide, and that fits the bill better than a pack of cards? Thoughts? Something obvious that I've missed?

I'd suggest D6 (Dice, six-sided). They are very common and the standard size of them is 16x16x16mm³



Good, undoubtedly. I'm not sure that I like the fact that the two 'best' results so far are playing cards and dice - both standardised worldwide as the result of commercial gambling (the only lawful vice that I find myself tutting over and condemning whenever I encounter it).

I have to disagree. Playing games with cards or dices aren't necessarily commercial gambling games.
One of my hobbies is playing board games and role playing. Those are coming with huge loads of dices of all kind.

(From one non-native English speaker to another)  Dice is a funny word in English.   It is actually:  one Die, and two (or more) Dice!  :D

Thanks for that. "Die" and "Dice" are one of those words which I'm tending to use them not properly.  :palm:

And now ... choose your weapon!   >:D     8)


“Chaos is found in greatest abundance wherever order is being sought. It always defeats order, because it is better organized.”            - Terry Pratchett -
 
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Offline Cubdriver

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #65419 on: August 03, 2020, 09:38:38 pm »
Cheers!   :-+ :-+








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If it jams, force it.  If it breaks, you needed a new one anyway...
 

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #65420 on: August 03, 2020, 09:44:52 pm »
@bd139, Those batteries on the 3478A are a BT701 and are only 3V anyway so I would say that it is fine safely leave the battery as it is.

Thanks - that's the plan. I will lurk for a USB GPIB interface I think and grab one if it turns up, then tackle it after I've backed up the cal data  :-DD
Absolutely no need to do that, pull down a data sheet on the RAM chip and you'll be pleasantly surprised to see that it is down to 1.6V
I just pulled a data sheet for that chip, uPD5101L and it seems that minimum voltage for data retention is 2.0V, not the 1.6V as claimed in a bloggers post about when he replaced his battery on a 3478A :palm:
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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #65421 on: August 03, 2020, 09:46:12 pm »
Anyone is looking for a cheap 100A Load (42$) ?  ;D

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Standard-Power-Inc-PS2-L-1000-Programmable-Solid-State-Load-FOR-PARTS/174067508781

Shipping is killing the deal for me  :'(



shipping will kill me i see


Dang, I have to quit reading this thread.  I was looking for a cheapish load and I don't mind analog meters so I grabbed it.  Schematics are available and it shouldn't be a big deal to fix.  That unit has 34 pass transistors.   A kilowatt load for ~ $100 isn't all that bad.  A quick hack with an arduino will give data logging. 

Shipping is a killer anywhere these days.  The other week I got a quote of $350 to ship a box of fuel lines for my truck (that was more than the lines cost).  $65 is actually not all that bad considering.

Double dang, the seller canceled the order.  Some gobble about they scrapped a lot of stuff and this must have been in the lot.  Grrr..
 
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Offline mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #65422 on: August 03, 2020, 10:14:45 pm »
   Welp... the deed is done. Juki is finished, tested, up on Kijiji for sale.

My moving boxes have finally arrived, so time to get them filled. Think maybe I'll start with my RC truxx...  :-DD

Just checked in on my 54645A... STILL hasn't shipped yet...  :palm:

mnem
« Last Edit: August 03, 2020, 10:16:20 pm by mnementh »
 
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Offline Saskia

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #65423 on: August 03, 2020, 10:35:29 pm »
Question for all of you. What common object, other than a ruler, would one use for scale in a photograph that is universal? Yeah, a ruler works but it doesn't have that same visceral feel that, say, a box of matches does.

For the Brits, a standard box of matches would work, but the "standard box of matches" varies in size around the world. A packet of Gitanes is the same size the world over but most people don't have a pack of French Cancer Sticks to hand. A bunch of keys? Pretty universal but you don't really want to embed the key profile of your front door key in a photo for publication. I've been over a few other things in my mind and discounted all of them as not universal enough. Pencil? The ubiquitous Bic? Too long and thin. Cups and cutlery are too variable in size.

I finally hit on a standard pack of playing cards. Right kind of scale, the same size all over the world, something that fits in the hand.

So, can anyone else think of a common household object that is truly universal worldwide, and that fits the bill better than a pack of cards? Thoughts? Something obvious that I've missed?

I'd suggest D6 (Dice, six-sided). They are very common and the standard size of them is 16x16x16mm³



Good, undoubtedly. I'm not sure that I like the fact that the two 'best' results so far are playing cards and dice - both standardised worldwide as the result of commercial gambling (the only lawful vice that I find myself tutting over and condemning whenever I encounter it).

I have to disagree. Playing games with cards or dices aren't necessarily commercial gambling games.
One of my hobbies is playing board games and role playing. Those are coming with huge loads of dices of all kind.

(From one non-native English speaker to another)  Dice is a funny word in English.   It is actually:  one Die, and two (or more) Dice!  :D

Thanks for that. "Die" and "Dice" are one of those words which I'm tending to use them not properly.  :palm:

And now ... choose your weapon!   >:D     8)




Glock magazines have a universal size. They also come in handy if you have to apply a tourniquet. Expect some questions at the hospital, though
 
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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #65424 on: August 03, 2020, 11:22:19 pm »
Question for all of you. What common object, other than a ruler, would one use for scale in a photograph that is universal? Yeah, a ruler works but it doesn't have that same visceral feel that, say, a box of matches does.

For the Brits, a standard box of matches would work, but the "standard box of matches" varies in size around the world. A packet of Gitanes is the same size the world over but most people don't have a pack of French Cancer Sticks to hand. A bunch of keys? Pretty universal but you don't really want to embed the key profile of your front door key in a photo for publication. I've been over a few other things in my mind and discounted all of them as not universal enough. Pencil? The ubiquitous Bic? Too long and thin. Cups and cutlery are too variable in size.

I finally hit on a standard pack of playing cards. Right kind of scale, the same size all over the world, something that fits in the hand.

So, can anyone else think of a common household object that is truly universal worldwide, and that fits the bill better than a pack of cards? Thoughts? Something obvious that I've missed?

I'd suggest D6 (Dice, six-sided). They are very common and the standard size of them is 16x16x16mm³



Good, undoubtedly. I'm not sure that I like the fact that the two 'best' results so far are playing cards and dice - both standardised worldwide as the result of commercial gambling (the only lawful vice that I find myself tutting over and condemning whenever I encounter it).

I have to disagree. Playing games with cards or dices aren't necessarily commercial gambling games.
One of my hobbies is playing board games and role playing. Those are coming with huge loads of dices of all kind.

(From one non-native English speaker to another)  Dice is a funny word in English.   It is actually:  one Die, and two (or more) Dice!  :D

Thanks for that. "Die" and "Dice" are one of those words which I'm tending to use them not properly.  :palm:

And now ... choose your weapon!   >:D     8)




Glock magazines have a universal size. They also come in handy if you have to apply a tourniquet. Expect some questions at the hospital, though

This was your 666th posting here.  :-DD

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https://youtu.be/RlsCObKlVcY    :popcorn:
“Chaos is found in greatest abundance wherever order is being sought. It always defeats order, because it is better organized.”            - Terry Pratchett -
 
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