Author Topic: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread  (Read 3652608 times)

mansaxel, mnementh and 28 Guests are viewing this topic.

Online mnementh

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 9687
  • Country: ca
  • *Escaping The Suck*
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #73625 on: October 30, 2020, 12:23:55 pm »

You can thank REACH which prohibits the use of lead in "consumer products"

The EU and their directives.

Lead will kill you in one or another way, if you're around it too much. I for one am more comfortable with the regulations that try removing Pb in as many places as possible, because lead in products offers the manufacturer short-time convenience large enough to prevent its demise unless forced. 

IMNSHO, there has to be a counter-force to the corporate greed, or we will all work unprotected in sweat-shops and then drag our asses home and be forced to consume products that are made with but one goal, bottom line. Like parts of SE Asia, for instance.

I have been complacent, but as I grow less stupid with age I take some things more seriously.  I am happy that my children have had a mostly lead-free environment to grow up in. They are stronger and healthier for that. 

I do appreciate and enjoy the child's play (sic) that is soldering with PbSn. And I keep a roll around for repairs (at current usage level, I'm good until 2040, at least). Even if I'm not doing separate tool environments for PbSn and RoHS solder as I should by the book, I try to limit PbSn to where it is necessary.

Finally; I see lead-free soldering as a new craft to be mastered. As such, it takes adjustment of one's habits, and at this age, just above 50, that does mean some effort.

Thanks... you just saved me typing out a whole long diatribe saying pretty much exactly this, only probably with the snark cranked up to 11, as I woke up "full of piss & vinegar", and annoyed as fuck at my 4070A.  :-DD

mnem
*goes back to reading the fukkin' manual*
 

Offline bd139

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 17095
  • Country: gb
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #73626 on: October 30, 2020, 12:33:48 pm »
 
The following users thanked this post: tautech, Cerebus, BU508A, med6753, mnementh, Specmaster, Neomys Sapiens, mansaxel, TorinoFermic

Online mnementh

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 9687
  • Country: ca
  • *Escaping The Suck*
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #73627 on: October 30, 2020, 12:35:55 pm »
Defeated right from the get go. None of my soldering/desoldering equipment can generate enough heat to properly wick the solder off these capacitors. Even braid dipped in liquid flux. The mass of those capacitors acts like a giant heat sink. My suction bulb desoldering iron just sits there with very little melt. The pix shows about 20 minutes of freaking around just making a fucking mess.

Obviously I need a heavy duty vacuum pump desoldering station. Recommendations? Hopefully something that will do the job without spending a fortune. I know Hakko has one but it's damn near $300 USD. I'm looking to spend less than that.

Going to clean up this mess and reassemble everything and call it a day.  ::) :palm:   
Use a high power solder gun like the one in the photo?   



https://www.amazon.com/Weller-GT7A-Solder-Solid-State/dp/B0042T1G0I/

Good lord... that thing dates back to Edison FFS. :palm: At least suggest something civilized with temp control like a GT7...

mnem
 :-/O
« Last Edit: October 30, 2020, 12:39:56 pm by mnementh »
 

Online mnementh

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 9687
  • Country: ca
  • *Escaping The Suck*
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #73628 on: October 30, 2020, 12:49:10 pm »
I have a Weller soldering gun but now you're risking burning the board. I am just about convinced a mini hack saw is the best alternative here.

Oh gawd no...  :palm:  I didn't realize what you were planning to do with the saw. No, no, a thousand times no.  :scared: If you try and fit a sawblade between the caps and the PCB, you are going to make that gorgeous old-school FR4 look like a complete fucking magilla-gorilla chewed-up shitshow.

If you're just looking to nip off the protruding bit to decrease mass a Dremel is ideal, or even a pair of flush-cutters. Please, just get the GT7. It will make short work of this project, I can promise you that from personal experience as I've owned one since I was 14, and it is a tool you'll never regret owning. In fact, you'll find yourself wondering how you got along without it all these years.

mnem
*back to the bench*

« Last Edit: October 30, 2020, 01:14:37 pm by mnementh »
 

Offline Specmaster

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 10519
  • Country: gb
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #73629 on: October 30, 2020, 12:55:35 pm »
Defeated right from the get go. None of my soldering/desoldering equipment can generate enough heat to properly wick the solder off these capacitors. Even braid dipped in liquid flux. The mass of those capacitors acts like a giant heat sink. My suction bulb desoldering iron just sits there with very little melt. The pix shows about 20 minutes of freaking around just making a fucking mess.

Obviously I need a heavy duty vacuum pump desoldering station. Recommendations? Hopefully something that will do the job without spending a fortune. I know Hakko has one but it's damn near $300 USD. I'm looking to spend less than that.

Going to clean up this mess and reassemble everything and call it a day.  ::) :palm:   
Use a high power solder gun like the one in the photo?   



https://www.amazon.com/Weller-GT7A-Solder-Solid-State/dp/B0042T1G0I/

Good lord... that thing dates back to Edison FFS. :palm: At least suggest something civilized with temp control like a GT7...

mnem
 :-/O
I still have one somewhere as well that I pull out if I really have to crank up the heat, but TBH the T12, with a large bit and boost applied will normally suffice.
Who let Murphy in?

Brymen-Fluke-Solartron-HP-Thurlby-Heathkit-Thander-Tek-Extech-Black Star-GW-Advance-Avo-Kyoritsu-Amprobe-ITT-Robin-TTi
 
The following users thanked this post: mnementh

Online mnementh

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 9687
  • Country: ca
  • *Escaping The Suck*
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #73630 on: October 30, 2020, 01:04:02 pm »
Yup... most of the time the 4mm chisel tip is adequate for even these brutes. But I didn't want to open the whole "T-12 OLED Soldering Controller" can of worms this morning; I have enough line items on my shit list today. ;)

mnem
Choose your battles.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2020, 01:06:02 pm by mnementh »
 
The following users thanked this post: bd139, tonyalbus

Offline tonyalbus

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 624
  • Country: nl
  • To better understand, you need to open it ;-)
    • My Channel
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #73631 on: October 30, 2020, 01:17:47 pm »
Found someting to compliment my 8200A and 8125A Fluke Nixie... :)
8120A  :-DD



Electronics enthusiast, TEA and Radio Amateur (PE1ONS)
Marconi  - TTi - Thandar - Thurmbly - HP - Fluke - Philips - Siglent - Owon - TEK - Anritsu - Keitley - AVO - BG7TBL
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwLPcv2xiA3D9lfGArF58ww
 
The following users thanked this post: Cubdriver, BU508A, bd139, shakalnokturn, FransW, factory, AVGresponding

Offline Specmaster

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 10519
  • Country: gb
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #73632 on: October 30, 2020, 01:44:28 pm »
Yup... most of the time the 4mm chisel tip is adequate for even these brutes. But I didn't want to open the whole "T-12 OLED Soldering Controller" can of worms this morning; I have enough line items on my shit list today. ;)

mnem
Choose your battles.
Yep, but there is no point in denying the truth though  :popcorn:
Who let Murphy in?

Brymen-Fluke-Solartron-HP-Thurlby-Heathkit-Thander-Tek-Extech-Black Star-GW-Advance-Avo-Kyoritsu-Amprobe-ITT-Robin-TTi
 
The following users thanked this post: mnementh

Offline bd139

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 17095
  • Country: gb
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #73633 on: October 30, 2020, 01:57:00 pm »
Only if you shout Allah Akbar before swapping tips.  :popcorn:
 
The following users thanked this post: BU508A

Offline Cerebus

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6218
  • Country: gb
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #73634 on: October 30, 2020, 02:04:45 pm »
Now the puppy is able to sweep the dinner table with her tail.  Too tall to qualify as a miniature horse (32 inches at the shoulder maximum).

May be time to start considering a saddle, or at least saddle bags for trips to the local shops. When I were a lad my cousin Michael (who owned a small farm on Guernsey) and my parents did a house swap for the summer holidays. This left 14 year old me with the job of looking after his dog, Bruno, on Guernsey. Bruno was a Pyrenean Mountain Dog puppy that probably had at least 15-20 kg on me weight wise. I had to take him for a walk every day - well he took me for a drag. Life would have been a lot easier if Michael had had a pony or two - I could have borrowed a saddle and made the daily walk a lot easier on myself.
Anybody got a syringe I can use to squeeze the magic smoke back into this?
 
The following users thanked this post: mnementh

Offline Specmaster

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 10519
  • Country: gb
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #73635 on: October 30, 2020, 02:08:04 pm »
Only if you shout Allah Akbar before swapping tips.  :popcorn:
Nah, you were just unlucky with a duff handle I reckon.
Who let Murphy in?

Brymen-Fluke-Solartron-HP-Thurlby-Heathkit-Thander-Tek-Extech-Black Star-GW-Advance-Avo-Kyoritsu-Amprobe-ITT-Robin-TTi
 
The following users thanked this post: mnementh

Offline BU508A

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2459
  • Country: de
  • Per aspera ad astra
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #73636 on: October 30, 2020, 02:14:41 pm »
Now the puppy is able to sweep the dinner table with her tail.  Too tall to qualify as a miniature horse (32 inches at the shoulder maximum).

May be time to start considering a saddle, or at least saddle bags for trips to the local shops. When I were a lad my cousin Michael (who owned a small farm on Guernsey) and my parents did a house swap for the summer holidays. This left 14 year old me with the job of looking after his dog, Bruno, on Guernsey. Bruno was a Pyrenean Mountain Dog puppy that probably had at least 15-20 kg on me weight wise. I had to take him for a walk every day - well he took me for a drag. Life would have been a lot easier if Michael had had a pony or two - I could have borrowed a saddle and made the daily walk a lot easier on myself.

“Chaos is found in greatest abundance wherever order is being sought. It always defeats order, because it is better organized.”            - Terry Pratchett -
 
The following users thanked this post: mnementh

Offline Saskia

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1165
  • Country: de
  • you unlock this door with the key of imagination
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #73637 on: October 30, 2020, 02:50:41 pm »
a little bit of detonating cord should be able to take care of that electrolytic ...

I'd still have a go with a hot air station tho.


btw bought some keysight stuff today. A N2756A probe cable. Was reduced to 204€ and summthang.
 

Offline cyclin_al

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 105
  • Country: ca
  • VE3TSD / VA2XAR
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #73638 on: October 30, 2020, 03:58:45 pm »
Now the puppy is able to sweep the dinner table with her tail.  Too tall to qualify as a miniature horse (32 inches at the shoulder maximum).

May be time to start considering a saddle, or at least saddle bags for trips to the local shops. When I were a lad my cousin Michael (who owned a small farm on Guernsey) and my parents did a house swap for the summer holidays. This left 14 year old me with the job of looking after his dog, Bruno, on Guernsey. Bruno was a Pyrenean Mountain Dog puppy that probably had at least 15-20 kg on me weight wise. I had to take him for a walk every day - well he took me for a drag. Life would have been a lot easier if Michael had had a pony or two - I could have borrowed a saddle and made the daily walk a lot easier on myself.

Ah, so you understand perfectly well!  Nya (as in the LEGO Ninjago character for those with human/dragon pups) is a Great Pyrenese Mountain Dog (what we call the same breed here)!  Training will change the drag into a walk, but that is a challenge when it is not your dog and you were taken advantage of.  :-DD  On the other hand, training here has not yet achieved that success.  Based on the size of her parents, we were expecting an adult size of approximately 120 lbs.  However, based on growth so far and leg and paw size, the expectation is now 160 lbs, which is 98th percentile.

Puppy is reduced to a blubbering cry-baby today, after the show of bravado last night.  Old dog has gone out to the groomers and gone for a car ride no less.  Puppy is left behind with me and is highly anxious.   Having a puppy now is no problem, but there will surely be widespread problems when people return to normal schedules.
 
The following users thanked this post: mnementh

Online mnementh

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 9687
  • Country: ca
  • *Escaping The Suck*
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #73639 on: October 30, 2020, 04:19:41 pm »
Only if you shout Allah Akbar before swapping tips.  :popcorn:
Nah, you were just unlucky with a duff handle I reckon.
I hot-swap my tips constantly... probably 50 times this morning alone, desoldering different parts trying to isolate the DC offset problems with my 4070A. In that respect it's better even than my MetCal, as I don't have to reset the power unit every time I swap.  :-//

mnem
*punt*
 
The following users thanked this post: Specmaster

Offline Robert763

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 387
  • Country: gb
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #73640 on: October 30, 2020, 04:24:24 pm »
Had 3 packages arrive this afternoon. Parts for the Delta 300V PSU.
3 x 2N3439 BJTs, a 2N6027 PUT, 82V zener (had 6.2V and 12V in stock) and 4 BT148-600 SCRs (2 spares). Capactors and resistors I hve in stock. So will get on that tonight. It will be a bit of a shotgun approch replacing just about everything in the pre-regulator, but with so much missing or disconnected by a previous "repair" it seems the only way to go.
The SCRs are a subsitution. The unit had 2 x HS64S by Hutson (never heard of them before). It is a 4A 600Vsensitive gate type. The obvious replacement is the C106M1. However according to the manual, earlier versions of the PSU had a single C106M and they changed to two obscure parts. The question is why didn't they use two C106Ms? The only obvious difference with the HS64S is it has higher maximum gate current and gate power ratings. So I picked the BT148. It's gate is higher rated than the C106M but not quite as high as the HS64S. Each BT148-600 has a higher peak gate current than the anode rating of the 2N6027 driving them.
Lets hope it does not all go up in smoke.
 
The following users thanked this post: mnementh, tonyalbus

Offline Cerebus

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6218
  • Country: gb
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #73641 on: October 30, 2020, 04:24:37 pm »
Training will change the drag into a walk, but that is a challenge when it is not your dog and you were taken advantage of.  :-DD

Bruno was pretty well behaved to be fair to him, it was just that he wanted to do everything at a minimum 10 mph which led to a constant effort to restrain him while he was on the leash - I came back from that holiday looking like a junior muscle man. Fortunately the actual time spend on leash wasn't too long. Michael's place, as part of a farm, had a very generous back yard where you could wear some of the energy off. Then it was a half mile walk to a nearby beach cove below a cliff path, reached down Guernsey's roads which necessitated a leash for the road bit. Roads in that part of Guernsey are twisty, 10 feet wide and banked by high hedges both sides - it's local practice to sound your horn in daylight every time you approach a bend. All that was left was to avoid a massive saltwater drenching afterwards if Bruno had decided to take a dip.
Anybody got a syringe I can use to squeeze the magic smoke back into this?
 

Online mnementh

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 9687
  • Country: ca
  • *Escaping The Suck*
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #73642 on: October 30, 2020, 04:51:39 pm »
Ahhh.... lunging the dog. I used to have to do that with our Dobie/Shep/Wolf mix when we lived in the city. Still have to do it from time to time with my daughter.  >:D

The latter is much more fun. ;)

mnem
moo.
 

Offline 0culus

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2647
  • Country: us
  • Electronics, RF, and TEA Hobbyist
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #73643 on: October 30, 2020, 05:04:40 pm »
Going to order a mini hack saw.
:o  :scared:
The blue butcher !  :P

I think the capacitor overlords are trying to tell med to quit while he's ahead!  :-DD
 
The following users thanked this post: Specmaster

Offline Specmaster

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 10519
  • Country: gb
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #73644 on: October 30, 2020, 05:41:58 pm »
Defeated right from the get go. None of my soldering/desoldering equipment can generate enough heat to properly wick the solder off these capacitors. Even braid dipped in liquid flux. The mass of those capacitors acts like a giant heat sink. My suction bulb desoldering iron just sits there with very little melt. The pix shows about 20 minutes of freaking around just making a fucking mess.

Obviously I need a heavy duty vacuum pump desoldering station. Recommendations? Hopefully something that will do the job without spending a fortune. I know Hakko has one but it's damn near $300 USD. I'm looking to spend less than that.

Going to clean up this mess and reassemble everything and call it a day.  ::) :palm:


TBH Med, if you have a hot air rework station, I'd be inclined to select a small nozzle, low air flow, medium to high heat, cut of the excess cap legs flush with the solder, then apply heat slowly to each caps joints, alternating while trying to insert a screwdriver blade between the board and the cap to gently lever it out of the holes as the solder melts. Once out you'll be able to use the wick method to clean the holes ready for the new caps to go in.
Who let Murphy in?

Brymen-Fluke-Solartron-HP-Thurlby-Heathkit-Thander-Tek-Extech-Black Star-GW-Advance-Avo-Kyoritsu-Amprobe-ITT-Robin-TTi
 

Offline med6753

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7244
  • Country: us
  • Tek nut
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #73645 on: October 30, 2020, 06:13:42 pm »
Going to order a mini hack saw.
:o  :scared:
The blue butcher !  :P

I think the capacitor overlords are trying to tell med to quit while he's ahead!  :-DD

I never give up.  :P :-DD
An old gray beard with an attitude.
 
The following users thanked this post: Specmaster, 0culus

Offline med6753

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7244
  • Country: us
  • Tek nut
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #73646 on: October 30, 2020, 06:22:28 pm »
I have a Weller soldering gun but now you're risking burning the board. I am just about convinced a mini hack saw is the best alternative here.

Oh gawd no...  :palm:  I didn't realize what you were planning to do with the saw. No, no, a thousand times no.  :scared: If you try and fit a sawblade between the caps and the PCB, you are going to make that gorgeous old-school FR4 look like a complete fucking magilla-gorilla chewed-up shitshow.

If you're just looking to nip off the protruding bit to decrease mass a Dremel is ideal, or even a pair of flush-cutters. Please, just get the GT7. It will make short work of this project, I can promise you that from personal experience as I've owned one since I was 14, and it is a tool you'll never regret owning. In fact, you'll find yourself wondering how you got along without it all these years.

mnem
*back to the bench*

Of course I'm not going to go stupid with a hack saw. But it's going to be in my arsenal when I go back in there. Use where appropriate. Using a big Weller alone isn't going to get these bastards out. They are tightly packed and really no room to leverage them doing one leg at a time. At least 2 legs need to be cut and then you have a fighting chance of getting them out. So whether a Dremel or saw will be determined as I go. This isn't my first rodeo.

I consider getting that PSU in and out a dry run and a familiarization because it is freaking tight. And as proof that I didn't FUBAR anything here it is running. 

An old gray beard with an attitude.
 
The following users thanked this post: Specmaster

Offline bd139

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 17095
  • Country: gb
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #73647 on: October 30, 2020, 06:42:43 pm »
So I was going to slack off and play with some test gear this evening but now I just spent two hours tracking down a Linux kernel bug. Turns out if you pull an HDMI cable out of an Intel chipset after boot on some kernels it hammers the fuck out of the CPU. Total fail.

 

Offline med6753

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7244
  • Country: us
  • Tek nut
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #73648 on: October 30, 2020, 06:46:45 pm »
So I was going to slack off and play with some test gear this evening but now I just spent two hours tracking down a Linux kernel bug. Turns out if you pull an HDMI cable out of an Intel chipset after boot on some kernels it hammers the fuck out of the CPU. Total fail.



Simple solution. Don't unplug the HDMI cable when booted.  :P

KISS.  :-DD

An old gray beard with an attitude.
 
The following users thanked this post: tonyalbus

Offline bd139

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 17095
  • Country: gb
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #73649 on: October 30, 2020, 06:51:54 pm »
Well it's a headless server so YMMV on that  :palm:. Fixed. drm related. Add "nomodeset" and "i915.modeset=0" to the kernel parameters.

Ffuuuuuuck all I wanted to do was program a sodding AVR.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2020, 06:53:33 pm by bd139 »
 
The following users thanked this post: mnementh, Saskia


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf