Author Topic: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread  (Read 4285797 times)

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Offline tautech

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #79975 on: January 18, 2021, 09:53:45 am »
And I didn't take pics  :palm: when at the Navy Cal lab today of all the gear they had...universal calibrators, reference signal sources, voltage sources, bench meters by the dozen, counters and all top class plus other TEA items too numerous to list.
Talk about a kid in a candy shop.....all of it very yummy.  :)
Wiped the dribble off my chin all the way home.  :-DD

Now they have a couple more Siglents, yes more to add to the potpourri of instruments they have already.  ;D
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Offline Specmaster

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #79976 on: January 18, 2021, 10:05:55 am »
So I take it you think that a hundred years of private vehicle ownership isn't enough experience for us to have accumulated sufficient data to accurately predict how people use privately owned vehicles? Obviously there is a huge body of statistics in the hands of governments and motor vehicle manufacturers that says otherwise. Or perhaps you think that 100 years of engineering experience building the same isn't a sufficient basis for predicting the likely lifetimes and failure modes of their components over that lifetime? If that's true then I think we'd better throw the whole profession of engineering in the bin.

Nope, we're got quite enough data and experience to be able, as engineers and scientists, to come to some reasonable conclusions as to the environmental impact of substituting EVs for ICE vehicles. And people have, and have published that data and those conclusions. On that basis, I don't think there's any element of the "jury still being out".  The only reason that there might appear to be, to some people, is that there are a whole shitload of vested interests involved who'd like to muddy the waters. The tactic of falsely claiming a need for "further study" is such an old delaying tactic that it was handed out in advice on sabotage in WWII.

Quote from: OSS Simple Sabotage Manual
(11) General Interference with Organisations and Production
(a) Organizations and Conferences
(1) Insist on doing everything through "channels." Never permit short-cuts to be taken in order to expedite decisions.
(2) Make "speeches." Talk as frequently as possible and at great length. Illustrate your "points" by long anecdotes and accounts of per­ sonal experiences. Never hesitate to make a few appropriate "patriotic" comments.
(3) When possible, refer all matters to committees, for "further study and considera­tion." Attempt to make the committees as large as possible — never less than five.
(4) Bring up irrelevant issues as frequently as possible.
(5) Haggle over precise wordings of com­ munications, minutes, resolutions.
(6) Refer back to matters decided upon at the last meeting and attempt to re-open the question of the advisability of that decision.
(7) Advocate "caution." Be "reasonable" and urge your fellow-conferees to be "reason­ able" and avoid haste which might result in embarrassments or difficulties later on.
(8 ) Be worried about the propriety of any decision — raise the question of whether such action as is contemplated lies within the juris­ diction of the group or whether it might conflict with the policy of some higher echelon

(Some of us may also recognise elements of the above as "good business practice" as promulgated by a certain class of PHBs.  :))

As engineers and scientists we ought to be immune to this kind of propaganda, especially in this day and age where getting your hands on peer reviewed science and engineering publications packed with hard facts is a few clicks away on the Internet. Instead, as has been evidenced many times by the too-ing and fro-ing about EVs across the whole of this forum, we as a body seem to be just as gullible as readers of the Daily Mail or the National Enquirer.
Nope, we have to remember that engines of today are hugely more efficient than those that came and went before them and that trend is ongoing. Not only do we get considerably more power extracted from a litre of petrol now, but we also get a massive drop in the emissions of those same engines, plus new cars now have start/stop technology and some cars actually shut down upto half of their cylinders so there are more savings that weren't possible before. Bio-fuel can be grown and processed locally thus removing the high-cost energy wise of building drilling rigs and other such gear to extract oil from the earth, transport it to a refinery etc, so it is perfectly possible that ICE cars will become superclean and EV may not be needed just yet, who really knows what  tomorrow will bring?
Who let Murphy in?

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Offline BU508A

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #79977 on: January 18, 2021, 10:24:32 am »
And I didn't take pics  :palm: when at the Navy Cal lab today of all the gear they had...universal calibrators, reference signal sources, voltage sources, bench meters by the dozen, counters and all top class plus other TEA items too numerous to list.
Talk about a kid in a candy shop.....all of it very yummy.  :)
Wiped the dribble off my chin all the way home.  :-DD

Now they have a couple more Siglents, yes more to add to the potpourri of instruments they have already.  ;D

Oh come on tautech!   :-DD

“Chaos is found in greatest abundance wherever order is being sought. It always defeats order, because it is better organized.”            - Terry Pratchett -
 
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Offline beanflying

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #79978 on: January 18, 2021, 10:30:45 am »
At least only minimal Test gear was used. Kind of cool but wow on the $ even with the level of work eBay auction: #274391389907



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Online mansaxel

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #79979 on: January 18, 2021, 10:36:57 am »

Oh come on tautech!   :-DD



Tautech wrote "Navy Cal Lab". I'd be very surprised if there wasn't a photo ban, if not outright a phone ban. I've worked places in that line of work with "phone Kindergartens" outside, like miniature lockers large enough for a laptop and a bunch of phones each. Bringing a unapproved computer, phone or camera inside would equal "intent of espionage".

Offline beanflying

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #79980 on: January 18, 2021, 10:41:28 am »
It had to be done and Sheep don't swim well.  :-DD

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #79981 on: January 18, 2021, 10:43:31 am »
..., so it is perfectly possible that ICE cars will become superclean and EV may not be needed just yet, who really knows what  tomorrow will bring?

So, we just wait and see if that happens, or doesn't,  do we, meantime sitting on our thumbs? Don't you get the clash between saying "possible ... will become" (conditional future tense) and "may not be needed just yet" (present tense)? We need solutions now, not after 20 years of further research, procrastination and sticking our heads in the sand. Do you have a basis for that "possibility" of superclean ICE cars, or is this just "all things are possible" wishful thinking? It's possible that next year I will get "A pony and the moon on  stick." but I ain't gonna hold my breath.

Really, I find it very frustrating that a man who seems intelligent to me seems so wedded to wishful thinking in place of pragmatic realism.

As BD says, and I've been saying for years, what we've really got wrong is the expectation of cheap consequence free travel, and structuring the world so that it is a necessity (e.g. out of town supermarkets in place of local shops, commuting 20 miles twice a day instead of walking to a local place of work). Restructuring the last 60 years of socio-geographic change is going to be as much, if not more, of a struggle as weaning people off the idea that every household can have one or more cars and use them whenever they like or the idea that they can jump on a plane for a cheap weekend break in Barcelona. Frankly the whole EV versus ICE thing is just a sideshow.
Anybody got a syringe I can use to squeeze the magic smoke back into this?
 
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Online Cerebus

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #79982 on: January 18, 2021, 10:45:33 am »
And I didn't take pics  :palm: when at the Navy Cal lab today of all the gear they had...universal calibrators, reference signal sources, voltage sources, bench meters by the dozen, counters and all top class plus other TEA items too numerous to list.
Talk about a kid in a candy shop.....all of it very yummy.  :)
Wiped the dribble off my chin all the way home.  :-DD

Now they have a couple more Siglents, yes more to add to the potpourri of instruments they have already.  ;D

Oh come on tautech!   :-DD



Pluse video, then we could have had the additional entertainment of watching Tautech being dragged off in chains by naval MPs for photography in a restricted area.  >:D
Anybody got a syringe I can use to squeeze the magic smoke back into this?
 
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Online mansaxel

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #79983 on: January 18, 2021, 10:46:07 am »

Nope, we have to remember that engines of today are hugely more efficient than those that came and went before them and that trend is ongoing.

The present day ICE is tolerable simply because its emissions and shortcomings are compensated for by support systems far exceeding it in complexity. That this is untenable seems to me as the most obvious conclusion. 

Still, I (and even more so my children) will readily attest to the efficiency of said measures because their absence (like in a 70s muscle car you end up stopping behind at the traffic signal) today is quickly noticed.

In comparison, an induction motor is a simple thing of beauty.

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #79984 on: January 18, 2021, 10:55:52 am »
And back to TEA, this message just arrived, so I have my spray bottle of IPA already to disinfect the meter first before inspecting and powering it up, more on it later.  :-+

I hope it's 70-90% IPA, 100% alcohol is not very effective!
 

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #79985 on: January 18, 2021, 11:02:48 am »
 Super clean ICE is possible now. Run them on hydrogen. No CO2 from exhaust. NOx might need a bit of work  ;)
We just need a bunch of fast neutron reactors to breakdown water and "burn" all the stockpiled part used fuel and DU. At current rates that should give us time to get fusion sorted  >:D
 

Offline BU508A

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #79986 on: January 18, 2021, 11:04:41 am »
Super clean ICE is possible now. Run them on hydrogen. No CO2 from exhaust. NOx might need a bit of work  ;)
We just need a bunch of fast neutron reactors to breakdown water and "burn" all the stockpiled part used fuel and DU. At current rates that should give us time to get fusion sorted  >:D

Here we go:

“Chaos is found in greatest abundance wherever order is being sought. It always defeats order, because it is better organized.”            - Terry Pratchett -
 
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Offline Specmaster

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #79987 on: January 18, 2021, 11:55:55 am »

Really, I find it very frustrating that a man who seems intelligent to me seems so wedded to wishful thinking in place of pragmatic realism.


Thank you for thinking I'm intelligent, I think we are all intelligent here, but have our own opinions, just as people far more intelligent than us also have theirs.

I really do think that it would be foolish to dismiss the oil industry at the present moment in time, I can't accept that they are happy to sit back and watch a huge slice of their revenue disappear without doing one of 2 things, A/ Do extensive research to find a way of retaining the ICE or B/ Buy into the battery industry in a massive way to keep the cash flow coming in.

As an intelligent person, I don't close my mind to anything at all, and I will be astounded if all goes down quite as many think it will, for a start I seriously doubt that the 2030 ban on sales of ICE will be implemented as planned given that we are still reeling from this virus on a global basis will have an impact on the research etc.
Who let Murphy in?

Brymen-Fluke-HP-Thurlby-Heathkit-Thander-Tek-Extech-Black Star-GW-Advance-Avo-Kyoritsu-Amprobe-ITT-Robin-TTi
 

Offline Specmaster

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #79988 on: January 18, 2021, 12:16:52 pm »
Back onto genuine TEA, the TTi 1906 has arrived, very packed and is indeed working as I expected it would be. It has just been PAT tested prior to dispatch and has a sticker to that effect applied to it. A quick and test, shows that it does need calibration on DC volts at the very least as it appears to be 50mV high in its readings, but I have not got the time now to post photos of it so these will follow later.

One thing I have gleaned is that it is not quite as intuitive to use as say a Fluke 8840A or the Black Star 4503 are for the basic functions. It does have selectable input impedance on the 2 lower ranges of 10M or 1G which is good and also T Hold which will automatically hold the reading once taken until you reset it.  :-+
Who let Murphy in?

Brymen-Fluke-HP-Thurlby-Heathkit-Thander-Tek-Extech-Black Star-GW-Advance-Avo-Kyoritsu-Amprobe-ITT-Robin-TTi
 
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Offline dl6lr

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #79989 on: January 18, 2021, 12:30:05 pm »
So a relatively humble EV is going to have better acceleration (and hence throttle response) than a reasonably quick sports car, and is going to stomp over a petrol equivalent of the same class. If you're not used to that level of throttle response, then yeah, it's going to seem twitchy, just the same as if you jumped out of a Corsa and into a Porsche 911.

The diagram is similar to even reasonable sized cars with variable geometry turbocharged engines. There you have the max. torque from about 1000rpm on as it is limited by the engine control. If you are not familiar, that feels strange as the torque is almost constant, resulting in a feeling that the "power" output is reduced with higher rpms, where in fact the power output is linear with the rpms. Most drivers are familiar with peaks of torque in the region of about 4000rpm.
 

Online Robert763

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #79990 on: January 18, 2021, 12:46:02 pm »
Silly ebay prices again
HP 547A current tracer went for over £200  :o
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HP547A-Current-tracer-with-original-manual/224311631255?
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #79991 on: January 18, 2021, 01:08:23 pm »
It had to be done and Sheep don't swim well.  :-DD


Neither do Yanks apparently.  :P

I only put one hole in it Sir:

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #79992 on: January 18, 2021, 01:21:45 pm »
Hahahahahaha  :-DD :-DD
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #79993 on: January 18, 2021, 01:22:35 pm »
One big hole:

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Offline tautech

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #79994 on: January 18, 2021, 01:28:12 pm »
And Bean's poking borax at the NZ Navy when he should be reminded of this:  :P
San Diego 1995



That ^ went all the way to the bottom where it still is I believe.
Yanks should have fined the Aussies for littering like the Aussies did to the Yanks when bits of SkyLab crashed onto WA.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2021, 01:45:43 pm by tautech »
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Online mansaxel

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #79995 on: January 18, 2021, 01:30:17 pm »
I opened the "newest" member of the bench up today, the 8022B. Case taken off to cleaning, and giving ample evidence that it's been in a smokers hands before me. Doesn't smell but a lot of Kimwipes were considerably yellow after the IPA wipedown. Much cleaner now.  PCB taken out, and, lo and behold, Murphy is marching in.

Three 22µF 'lytes, all of which have had bowel movements. Luckily enough, even my stash held slightly uprated components, so 25V 105°C Nichicons fitted now, instead of 16V 85°C ones. Had to forego social distancing to get them in, but they're there now, and meter works.

Edit: This is a complete shotgun replacement, or as I'd like to call it, a cluster munitions deployment, because it actually was necessary in all three cases.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2021, 01:40:23 pm by mansaxel »
 
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Online mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #79996 on: January 18, 2021, 01:52:05 pm »
   

...Had to forego social distancing to get them in, but they're there now, and meter works. This is a complete shotgun replacement, or as I'd like to call it, a cluster munitions deployment, because it actually was necessary in all three cases.


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« Last Edit: January 18, 2021, 01:57:28 pm by mnementh »
 

Online Cerebus

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #79997 on: January 18, 2021, 02:36:24 pm »
... I seriously doubt that the 2030 ban on sales of ICE will be implemented as planned given that we are still reeling from this virus on a global basis will have an impact on the research etc.

I don't think anybody with a grasp of realpolitik believed, on the day it was announced, it would actually be implemented as claimed. It's just greenwashing, a grasping at some green credentials to waive about at election time, and as we get closer to the date some plausible excuse will be found to delay it, at least once. When it does finally arrive, in say 2037, it will be a phased ban on certain classes of ICE vehicles with a nebulous plan to do something like "eliminate all sales of ICE vehicles by 2050".
Anybody got a syringe I can use to squeeze the magic smoke back into this?
 
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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #79998 on: January 18, 2021, 02:45:41 pm »
Well, SWMBO, who is even older and crustier than me, just got a phone call to make an appointment for her to go and get her COVID jab on Wednesday. Gosh!
Anybody got a syringe I can use to squeeze the magic smoke back into this?
 
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Online mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #79999 on: January 18, 2021, 02:53:15 pm »
..., so it is perfectly possible that ICE cars will become superclean and EV may not be needed just yet, who really knows what  tomorrow will bring?

So, we just wait and see if that happens, or doesn't,  do we, meantime sitting on our thumbs? Don't you get the clash between saying "possible ... will become" (conditional future tense) and "may not be needed just yet" (present tense)? We need solutions now, not after 20 years of further research, procrastination and sticking our heads in the sand. Do you have a basis for that "possibility" of superclean ICE cars, or is this just "all things are possible" wishful thinking? It's possible that next year I will get "A pony and the moon on  stick." but I ain't gonna hold my breath.

Really, I find it very frustrating that a man who seems intelligent to me seems so wedded to wishful thinking in place of pragmatic realism.

As BD says, and I've been saying for years, what we've really got wrong is the expectation of cheap consequence free travel, and structuring the world so that it is a necessity (e.g. out of town supermarkets in place of local shops, commuting 20 miles twice a day instead of walking to a local place of work). Restructuring the last 60 years of socio-geographic change is going to be as much, if not more, of a struggle as weaning people off the idea that every household can have one or more cars and use them whenever they like or the idea that they can jump on a plane for a cheap weekend break in Barcelona. Frankly the whole EV versus ICE thing is just a sideshow.

SOAPBOX:    :blah:

I never suggested that EV isn't the way to go. Of course it is; we simply cannot go on with the mindset that burning stuff to do what we want is the way to progress as a species. What I'm saying is that the only reason we're actually giving it any of this "reasonable consideration" right now is because Big Oil and their associates have figured out how to make as much or more money from EV as we do it now than by distributing gasoline to every household so they can burn it in a rolling firepit.

This is because it is easier and cheaper to pipe oil & CNG to centralized, clustered locations so it can be burned for electricity, then distribute that over existing infrastructure, plus the multiple levels of losses therein combined with the ability to burn less refined oil actually mean more of the raw product gets used in one shot, as opposed to re-refining and distributing oodles of kinds of different fuel products.

It is no accident that one of the biggest new investors in corn production right now is not a food producer, but rather a consortium of Big Energy money; even the attempt at shifting to E10-E85 vehicles still puts money in their pockets rather than taking it away. The only people who don't benefit from that investment are... surprise, surprise, small family farms. :palm:

The expectation of consequence-free individual travel is a byproduct of our sick, twisted pyramid socioeconomic structure, not the other way around. Human beings by nature tend to congregate in small clan-sized pockets, and begin to get uncomfortable in population centers large enough that the cloak of anonymity allows ne'er-do-wells to prey on them at will. It is only the insane demands of modern commerce... wherein merely great profit-investment ratios are no longer acceptable, but which must rather be on the scale of usurious and gluttonous to be considered marginally acceptable, that makes huge population centers necessary as people are the fuel for that cash refinery.

Most people would prefer to live in a small or medium sized town. however, making that possible while providing the modern niceties would mean investing heavily in cellular distribution mechanisms as opposed to centralized distribution, which inherently means more expense up front and less egregious profits for those at the top of the pyramid.

It would in fact erode and destroy that very edifice, as cellular distribution means more of the profit is made by local interests and less is concentrated in centralized interests, and the climate of constant desperation in the struggle for the legal tender which fuels that pyramid structure would vaporize, returning most of humanity to their natural agrarian culture. Making this happen would of course mean a huge redistribution of wealth as we redistribute the population, and thereby the profits, more evenly across the available geography. We simply cannot have that, even if it means the doom of the species in a few short decades.

No, no, no... we must keep the current system wherein human beings put themselves into debt for a lifetime for the privilege of shipping themselves great distances 6 times a week, at their own cost, to and from the centralized abattoirs and sanatoriums which we call the modern workplace. And lets not forget to keep rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic; that is so much more important than fixing the hole which is sucking us all in.

mnem
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