Author Topic: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread  (Read 4316501 times)

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Offline mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #80025 on: January 18, 2021, 07:47:51 pm »
   Okay... thinking aboot it, the C4 is probably a bad analogy, considering different chemistry, and my point was aboot packaging. Hmmm...

Okay... how aboot this. Grossly simplified, dynamite is nitroglycerine repackaged to A) make it more stable and B) to make the amount of explosive potential per package smaller and more predictable by dilution.

Similarly, cylindrical Li-xx cells are by nature more capable of keeping their integrity under pressure due to shape and size, and B) by individually encasing a smaller amount of lithium electrolyte material per cell, the likelihood of similar mass of electrolyte becoming involved is less.

Yes, I know that prismatic cells are supposedly chamber-isolated, but as videos we've seen demonstrate, that is not nearly as effective in a catastrophic short-circuit condition.

Does that comparison make more sense?


Okay... so here is my question to you old friend... as I know you know the chemistry better than I do:


How much of the difference in chemistry between Nitroglycerine/Dynamite is really different chemistry, vs just being able to make a higher concentration of the nitrate explosive (terminology...?) "stable" in a given amount of "filler" material, whether colloid or powdered cellulose...?

Nitroglycerine is still the same family of explosive, is it not?

mnem
 :popcorn:

Standard petrol (or gasoline to our cousins on the other side of the pool) has 31.5MJoules of energy per litre, that's 8.7kW/hrs in just one litre. Factors higher than the best battery on the market and we drive around with 40 to 50 litres of it in a glorified bucket every day. If safety didin't bother us up to now, why should it now? :D

McBryce.
You're fucking kidding, right?

I'm scared shitless of the stuff. 

I used to work in a boneyard cutting cars up with torches. I've had more than a few near-misses and regrown eyebrows. And been literally blowed-up by a propane furnace. As in blasted across the basement, with 3rd degree burns from wrist to armpit. And then there were the gasoline-mist and BLEVE demonstrations which were part of my volunteer firefigher basic training.

mnem
« Last Edit: January 18, 2021, 07:54:11 pm by mnementh »
 

Offline mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #80026 on: January 18, 2021, 07:48:33 pm »
Okay... thinking aboot it, the C4 is probably a bad analogy, considering different chemistry, and my point was aboot packaging. Hmmm...

Okay... how aboot this. Grossly simplified, dynamite is nitroglycerine repackaged to A) make it more stable and B) to make the amount of explosive potential per package smaller and more predictable by dilution.

Similarly, cylindrical Li-xx cells are by nature more capable of keeping their integrity under pressure due to shape and size, and B) by individually encasing a smaller amount of lithium electrolyte material per cell, the likelihood of similar mass of electrolyte becoming involved is less.

Yes, I know that prismatic cells are supposedly chamber-isolated, but as videos we've seen demonstrate, that is not nearly as effective in a catastrophic short-circuit condition.

Does that comparison make more sense?


Okay... so here is my question to you old friend... as I know you know the chemistry better than I do:


How much of the difference in chemistry between Nitroglycerine/Dynamite is really different chemistry, vs just being able to make a higher concentration of the nitrate explosive (terminology...?) "stable" in a given amount of "filler" material, whether colloid or powdered cellulose...?

Nitroglycerine is still the same family of explosive, is it not?

mnem
 :popcorn:

Dynamite* is just nitroglycerin adsorbed or absorbed into some inert material to make it safer to handle - originally Kieselgur, a siliceous earth not unlike the Fuller's Earth we're all familiar with from cat litter. It's just a mixture, there's no change in chemistry; indeed the inertness of the ad/absorbent is necessary, historical versions have used wood meal to disastrous consequences as it's not strictly inert. The packaging is typically waxed paper, it facilitates handling and keeps water out and that's about it. Certainly the packaging into sticks offers no protection against explosion - if one stick detonated in a room every stick in the room would be detonated by that, even if yards apart. Nasty stuff and in the modern world it's obsolete as an explosive - there might be some edge use cases for it but if there are I don't know of them.

* There have been some bastard cousins going under the name of "Dynamite" such as 'military dynamite' which is basically RDX. But Dynamite per se gets all its explosive power from nitroglycerin.

Okay... then that makes this analogy relevant as far as dilution, but not as far as the armor casing we use on battery cells.* Understood dynamite is only relatively "safer" than liquid nitroglycerine. Thanks for the lesson aboot the nature of the inert material.

Is there more to it than simple dilution with better inert materials with C-4? I understand the stuff "burns" slower, which makes it possible to use it for a cutting action; but I've deliberately avoided further study due to a parallel incident (not involving myself in any way) involving class C fireworks which caused a come-to-Jesus dialog with myself many years ago when I was just getting into it.


*Indeed, such a metal shell is how naughty people make pipe-bombs. Li-Ion cylindrical cells have been deliberately evolved over decades to include sufficient gas expansion volume and fuse-shunts and better mechanical sealing such that short-circuit-induced rupture in most cases is very infrequent, and first vented by a gas seal diaphgragm.


mnem
 :popcorn:
« Last Edit: January 18, 2021, 08:29:43 pm by mnementh »
 

Offline Specmaster

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #80027 on: January 18, 2021, 07:53:40 pm »
Looks pretty nice inside. As always with recent TTi. Got to love how they put their stuff together with generic parts always. No nasty ASICS with HP part numbers on them  :-DD

As for the cal data battery that definitely needs swapping out. Wonder if you can dump and restore the cal data

Edit: service manual covers all calibration options. Nice http://userequip.com/files/specs/1194/1906%20Service%20Manual%20(cct's%20incomplete%20+%20iss%20nos%20different).pdf
Yep, thats why I'm slowly carrying out what we spoke about a couple of years ago, swapping over to as much TTi stuff as I can get they are good and use off the shelf parts so should not be any problem getting parts if required, plus they are incredibly helpful if you need to contact them. Thanks for service manual, I'd already downloaded that and the user manual. My motto generally these days is, if you download the service manual, leave it for someone else to sort out. I think now I have manuals for all of my kit except the Chinese gear.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2021, 08:01:10 pm by Specmaster »
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Offline Specmaster

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #80028 on: January 18, 2021, 07:59:58 pm »
There is a 3v Lithium 20mm button cell that retains the cal data and as this meter was made in 1997, I suspect that the cell needs replacing, and they stuck it in vertically, right beneath the IEC mains inlet and its boot.

The battery terminals show some nice corrosion which makes me wonder if it is still alive.
We'll find out soon when I strip it down further to check the battery. The test points are also under the main's inlet,  :palm:
« Last Edit: January 18, 2021, 08:01:37 pm by Specmaster »
Who let Murphy in?

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Offline Specmaster

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #80029 on: January 18, 2021, 08:35:55 pm »
Standard petrol (or gasoline to our cousins on the other side of the pool) has 31.5MJoules of energy per litre, that's 8.7kW/hrs in just one litre. Factors higher than the best battery on the market and we drive around with 40 to 50 litres of it in a glorified bucket every day. If safety didin't bother us up to now, why should it now? :D

McBryce.
Yes that is true, but Myth Busters did a program about getting a car to blow up like the always do in films when they crash or even get a bullet through the fuel tank and they failed to make it explode or even catch fire.
Who let Murphy in?

Brymen-Fluke-HP-Thurlby-Heathkit-Thander-Tek-Extech-Black Star-GW-Advance-Avo-Kyoritsu-Amprobe-ITT-Robin-TTi
 

Offline mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #80030 on: January 18, 2021, 08:58:02 pm »


Just for you Spec, since you were so grievously disappointed. :-DD It appears a minigun with tracer incendiary rounds can do the job.  ;)


mnem
būm.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2021, 09:06:14 pm by mnementh »
 

Offline Specmaster

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #80031 on: January 18, 2021, 09:09:08 pm »


Just for you Spec, since you were so grievously disappointed. :-DD It appears a minigun with tracer incendiary rounds can do the job.  ;)


mnem
būm.
Oh hell, yeah cos I always carry in my pocket a minigun, don't you? :-// :-// :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD
Who let Murphy in?

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Offline mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #80032 on: January 18, 2021, 09:14:14 pm »
Sorry, that's Saskia's schtick, not mine.  :-DD

I'm the pervy little dwagon fancier, remember...?  >:D

mnem
"I'm fireproof, you're not." ~HellBoy
 
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Offline Saskia

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #80033 on: January 18, 2021, 09:21:39 pm »
 

Offline mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #80034 on: January 18, 2021, 09:41:32 pm »
I bet she's right now thinking aboot how to stow it in a backpack for sub-60-second deployment. Or maybe something MOLLE that allows use while walking without someone shoving a wheelbarrow just to carry the ammo.  :-DD

mnem
*instigating-ily*  >:D
 

Offline VK5RC

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #80035 on: January 18, 2021, 10:07:46 pm »
I am no chemist but I thought that the 'safety' of petroleum mainly came from the issue that the explosive fuel / air ratio is pretty narrow. Too much fuel it just burns, too little fuel - not much. Unlike hydrogen.
Whoah! Watch where that landed we might need it later.
 
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Offline Zucca

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #80036 on: January 18, 2021, 10:12:08 pm »

Final Product:



happiness in the air
Can't know what you don't love. St. Augustine
Can't love what you don't know. Zucca
 
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Offline Zucca

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #80037 on: January 18, 2021, 10:15:28 pm »
What Saskia wrote. (below what I'm quoting) You should be grateful that your landlord does their part on purging legionella. Our geothermal pump makes extra hot water once a week to solve the same problem.

Do you not have tempering valves? Required here in NZ, and then your water is set to heat to >60c, but is then tempered down just before it comes out the tap to 50-55c. That way the water is largely sterilised but still comes out the tap at a safe temperature.

Interesting reading....
Can't know what you don't love. St. Augustine
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Offline bd139

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #80038 on: January 18, 2021, 10:22:20 pm »

Final Product:



happiness in the air

Glad to see the result of that. Looks really good. Nice work  :-+
 
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Offline med6753

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #80039 on: January 18, 2021, 10:26:40 pm »
An old gray beard with an attitude.
 
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Offline VK5RC

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #80040 on: January 18, 2021, 10:57:31 pm »
What Saskia wrote. (below what I'm quoting) You should be grateful that your landlord does their part on purging legionella. Our geothermal pump makes extra hot water once a week to solve the same problem.

Do you not have tempering valves? Required here in NZ, and then your water is set to heat to >60c, but is then tempered down just before it comes out the tap to 50-55c. That way the water is largely sterilised but still comes out the tap at a safe temperature.

Interesting reading....
I work part time in that area, for hospitals here in Sth Aus, the water is rechlorinated at hospital entry (the gubbermint do a dodgy job) distribution across the hospital is at 60C or above, mixers in patient care areas max at 50C, the mixers need to be dissambled and disinfected 6 monthly, showers run on hot only for 1-2mins every day whether the room is in use or not. Monitoring and records of all of the above. Culture of incoming mains water and cooling water towers - I think monthly.
Another area which is quite tricky is Ice Machines - for immunosuppresed /ICU patients - they are given individual sterile water packs frozen to avoid the 'communal ice bucket/machine ' which is thought to not be good from a microbiol perspective.
Whoah! Watch where that landed we might need it later.
 

Offline mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #80041 on: January 18, 2021, 10:57:46 pm »
Final Product:      happiness in the air

Glad to see the result of that. Looks really good. Nice work  :-+

Ditto. Awesome finished product.  :-+

mnem
now where did I put that perfection tattler...?
 
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Offline mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #80042 on: January 18, 2021, 11:36:24 pm »
https://youtu.be/-GgWIlvyEL8

Neat. Lookit all the women there doing high-precision repetitive work. Also all that expansion and automation... just in time to be obsoleted out of existence.  :-\

mnem
 :-/O
 

Offline Specmaster

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #80043 on: January 18, 2021, 11:53:43 pm »
I think that the Lithium battery in the 1906 might be OK, it is still measuring 3.09V on load (in circuit). I have managed to clean up the battery and the diode D12 so I'm tempted to reassemble the meter and see what ranges need to be calibrated and do those.

EDIT:
Removed PCB and inspected the track side, solder joints also show signs of corrosion, so I have now ordered the replacement battery and will replace while I have the board out, 2 other random solder joints also corroded and yet nothing visible apart some marking on the button cell. All cleaned up and the other joints will be sucked out and resoldered the new battery is installed.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2021, 02:53:11 am by Specmaster »
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Offline med6753

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #80044 on: January 19, 2021, 02:09:06 am »
An old gray beard with an attitude.
 

Offline mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #80045 on: January 19, 2021, 03:51:18 am »
...   propaganda film.  :-DD

There was a time when I had easily a dozen or more pieces of SONY gear in my home, most of it bought new. I loved and respected the brand for their commitment to quality. Now... unless it's a accident... I think all I have is a HT receiver and a PS3, both bought used because they were just too cheap to pass up.  :-\

I like the part aboot "motivated employees"; I suspect their idea of motivation was a bit more ummm... severe than we westerners would tolerate.

mnem
*toddles off to ded*
« Last Edit: January 19, 2021, 04:07:25 am by mnementh »
 

Offline mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #80046 on: January 19, 2021, 04:10:28 am »
I think that the Lithium battery in the 1906 might be OK, it is still measuring 3.09V on load (in circuit). I have managed to clean up the battery and the diode D12 so I'm tempted to reassemble the meter and see what ranges need to be calibrated and do those.

EDIT:
Removed PCB and inspected the track side, solder joints also show signs of corrosion, so I have now ordered the replacement battery and will replace while I have the board out, 2 other random solder joints also corroded and yet nothing visible apart some marking on the button cell. All cleaned up and the other joints will be sucked out and resoldered the new battery is installed.

How old did you say that thing probably is...?   

Oh, wait... NM. I see you've come to your senses. ;)

mnem
*knocks self unconscious with a Trinitron mallet*
 

Offline mansaxel

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #80047 on: January 19, 2021, 07:11:59 am »
...   propaganda film.  :-DD

There was a time when I had easily a dozen or more pieces of SONY gear in my home, most of it bought new.

I've got excellent relations with Sony product development and engineering. This comes from frank discussions on various technical subjects. They are good, and do innovative stuff. Once in a while they need a little push, like all vendors.

Yes, the Sony Professional side. Not the consumer goods ;-)

Offline bd139

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #80048 on: January 19, 2021, 07:58:50 am »
Consumer side is a shit show these days. Total one trick pony. They’re still stuck in pre 2010 thinking culture ie before the rise of the smartphone. The last Sony product I bought was a W880i phone. Typically it was what Sony always did by then: crappy user interface designed to look nice but having major software, electrical and mechanical flaws. Same story across their phone, television, car radio and hifi lines by then.

If I survey across people I know these days, their entire product line is a bit of a dead end. People don’t own hifi stacks any more, half the people I know don’t have cars and most of them seem to watch stuff on their phones and tablets. And none of them own anything Sony.

RIP but they’re dead to me on the consumer side of things. Apple replaced them.

Edit: actually it has got to the point the TV hasn’t been on here for two weeks now. It’s not even plugged in after I rewired everything. It may go. I’ve got a Sony 26EX320 I’m trying to get rid of too which hasn’t been turned on for months.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2021, 08:01:00 am by bd139 »
 

Offline BU508A

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #80049 on: January 19, 2021, 08:08:57 am »
Consumer side is a shit show these days. Total one trick pony. They’re still stuck in pre 2010 thinking culture ie before the rise of the smartphone. The last Sony product I bought was a W880i phone. Typically it was what Sony always did by then: crappy user interface designed to look nice but having major software, electrical and mechanical flaws. Same story across their phone, television, car radio and hifi lines by then.

If I survey across people I know these days, their entire product line is a bit of a dead end. People don’t own hifi stacks any more, half the people I know don’t have cars and most of them seem to watch stuff on their phones and tablets. And none of them own anything Sony.

RIP but they’re dead to me on the consumer side of things. Apple replaced them.

Edit: actually it has got to the point the TV hasn’t been on here for two weeks now. It’s not even plugged in after I rewired everything. It may go. I’ve got a Sony 26EX320 I’m trying to get rid of too which hasn’t been turned on for months.

It's not a trick. It's a SONY!

“Chaos is found in greatest abundance wherever order is being sought. It always defeats order, because it is better organized.”            - Terry Pratchett -
 
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