Author Topic: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog  (Read 339361 times)

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Offline roberthh

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Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
« Reply #1400 on: October 15, 2020, 12:28:25 pm »
SDS2104X+, 1.3.5R10

The SCPI command:

System:remote?

completely freezes the device interface instead of just reporting the remote status. It still responds to "ping" messages on the LAN interface, but acquisition is also stopped.

System:remote off
has no effect on the user interface, as expected.
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
« Reply #1401 on: October 15, 2020, 07:05:15 pm »
SDS2104X+, 1.3.5R10

The SCPI command:

System:remote?

completely freezes the device interface instead of just reporting the remote status. It still responds to "ping" messages on the LAN interface, but acquisition is also stopped.

System:remote off
has no effect on the user interface, as expected.
Is Remote a valid command ?
I could not find it in the programming guide ?
https://int.siglent.com/u_file/document/ProgrammingGuide_PG01-E02C.pdf

Are you working in normal SCPI mode or Tek mode ?
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Offline roberthh

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Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
« Reply #1402 on: October 16, 2020, 07:06:02 pm »

Is Remote a valid command ?
I could not find it in the programming guide ?
https://int.siglent.com/u_file/document/ProgrammingGuide_PG01-E02C.pdf
Commands like system:reboot or system:shutdown work.

Are you working in normal SCPI mode or Tek mode ?
Yes, it is. I am using SDS5000XSDS2000X_Plus_ProgrammingGuide_PG01-E11A.pdf, Page 317
Link: https://www.siglenteu.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2020/07/SDS5000XSDS2000X_Plus_ProgrammingGuide_PG01-E11A.pdf

I have the one you mention too, but does not match, and it does not mention the sds2000x-plus.

I am working in Siglent mode. Can you tell me what the TEK mode is?
« Last Edit: October 16, 2020, 07:18:37 pm by roberthh »
 

Offline Martin72

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Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
« Reply #1403 on: October 16, 2020, 07:27:56 pm »
Hi,

Quote
In Tek Mode, the SCPI commands that the instrument understands are adapted to match those of Tektronix.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000x-plus-coming/msg3033422/#msg3033422

Offline roberthh

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Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
« Reply #1404 on: November 12, 2020, 01:07:34 pm »
A new firmware has been published for the SDS2000x-plus, Version 1.3.7R5. Quite a few changes.
 

Offline sng61

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Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
« Reply #1405 on: November 29, 2020, 06:11:08 pm »
1202x-e
Sometimes the trigger pointer and trigger level line becomes invisible. This bug will be fixed ?
The latest firmware. The previous firmware was the same.
https://youtu.be/FsnhopZEPGk
« Last Edit: November 29, 2020, 07:08:04 pm by sng61 »
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
« Reply #1406 on: November 29, 2020, 07:53:04 pm »
1202x-e
Sometimes the trigger pointer and trigger level line becomes invisible. This bug will be fixed ?
The latest firmware. The previous firmware was the same.
https://youtu.be/FsnhopZEPGk
Normal behaviour in trigger AC coupled mode. Always been this way.

For more understanding on AC and DC trigger coupling watch Daves video EEVblog #685 - What Is Oscilloscope AC Trigger Coupling?

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Offline sng61

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Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
« Reply #1407 on: Yesterday at 04:23:12 am »
This is normal?? ))
This is not first oscilloscope in my life. There was no such glitch on the previous ones.

Apparently they did not understand me.

in this video: https://youtu.be/FsnhopZEPGk
The first half of the video, where there is no cursor - are there both modes, AC and DC.
And from the middle - the cursor is visible, also in both modes, AC and DC.

And most importantly - such a glitch does not always happen !!! Usually the cursor is visible in all modes, as it should be.
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 04:31:59 am by sng61 »
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
« Reply #1408 on: Yesterday at 04:36:45 am »
This is normal?? ))
Firstly, this is not first oscilloscope in my life), and there was no such glitch on the previous ones.
And secondly... in this video, I deliberately switched AC-DS modes, and the cursor was not visible in all modes, although the trigger worked normally.
And most importantly - such a glitch does not always happen !!! Usually the cursor is visible in all modes, as it should be.
No, the trigger level indicator is not visible in an AC coupled trigger but only when AC coupled. DC coupled should be visible.
Sometimes the trigger level indicator can be above or below the display and to get it back press the trigger level control to return it to the 50% position of your waveform. The level indicator points up or down when it is off the display.

Try a factory Default is case there is some other setting that is causing this problem.

BTW I need to get a new SDS1202X-E out for my presale checks so will have look at the behaviour you describe.
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Offline sng61

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Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
« Reply #1409 on: Yesterday at 06:08:07 am »
Of course I'm sorry, but do you read what I write?On my device, the cursor is visible ALWAYS, and in any mode - AC or DC.(The second half of the video shows this.) Always, except for periodically occurring similar disappearances of the cursor pointer. And I have not yet noticed after which operations this occurs.
And where are the situations when the cursor is off-screen ?? The trigger level is numerically visible and its magnitude is always clear. But the display of the trigger's line and the cursor on the right will disappear !! I specifically showed how the signal is synchronized in the middle of the front edge, and the cursor and the line are not visible!
I don't know how else to explain such simple things.
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 06:30:52 am by sng61 »
 

Offline rf-loop

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Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
« Reply #1410 on: Yesterday at 08:52:20 am »
Of course I'm sorry, but do you read what I write?On my device, the cursor is visible ALWAYS, and in any mode - AC or DC.(The second half of the video shows this.) Always, except for periodically occurring similar disappearances of the cursor pointer. And I have not yet noticed after which operations this occurs.
And where are the situations when the cursor is off-screen ?? The trigger level is numerically visible and its magnitude is always clear. But the display of the trigger's line and the cursor on the right will disappear !! I specifically showed how the signal is synchronized in the middle of the front edge, and the cursor and the line are not visible!
I don't know how else to explain such simple things.

You need carefully make difference between oscilloscope INPUT coupling AC/DC and TRIGGER coupling..
This input AC DC have "nothing to do" with TRIGGER coupling AC/DC. (yes it have but this is bit other thing)

Also there is Trigger source. When it is AC it do nothing to do with "coupling" mode.

In your video your oscilloscope works just as designed and with this particular thing there is not bug.

It need also understand that this scope trigger engine is totally after ADC. Fully in digital side, listening ADC output stream. So oscilloscope analog input signal AC/DC coupling do not matter anything there after ADC and data what it see. Now this TRIGGER  coupling DC/AC is there in digital side. Data there is perfectly just 8 bit bytes from ADC and it do not know (reading this data) if input channel is AC or DC coupled. It only see ADC data range 0 - 255.

What is Trigger coupling then. If now want think this digitally you can think it analogically. Put DAC after ADC. Take this DAC signal out for trig. Now there is analog signal what can couple via DC route or block this DC out using capacitor and what make some time constant in circuit.

Now when TRIGGER coupling is AC there is not trigger level marker visible but when you adjust level there is still voltage level numbers what change.

This may feel weird but it is not bad solution at all. Of course it can do with visible level marker but in many circumstances it is "dancing wild" with some signals and then you try adjust this it may be nightmare. Just you know your signal you see on screen you can easy think what is numerical level where you want is trigger level.
When yoy have different signals, say example rectangle wave with moving duty and then it ride over some slowly moving "nearly" DC... 

Take exercise and generate this kind different signals and change input AC/DC coupling and change also, together with thinking, trigger coupling  and look how it affect. Watch also signal shape vertican and horizontal moves when signal is changing up and down when this nearly dc is going up and down and you are triggering to this riding example triangle or pwm on it.

There is in trigger setup
Trigger DC coupling, just as previously told it can think trigger engine get just ADC ouput signal as it is
Trigger AC coupling, just DC block and corner freq around 6Hz (as high pass filer)
Trigger LF reject aka high pass filter, this is also kind of AC coupling. High pass filter.. It removes DC and LF freq, corner is around 2MHz
Trigger HF reject, low pass filter, is different, it is low pass filter. It do not remove DC. Its is just low pass filter down to "DC". It have around 1.2MHz corner freq.
These filters are not very steep.

When here is Keysight some scopes principle it can clearly see that if input is AC coupled also trigger is AC coupled. Look this small red line after input when analog signal go to trigger system and other pathway go to ADC. In this side pathway there is also trigger coupling in this kind of scopes. Older times most of DSO and DPO scopes was just like this analog side pathway trigger principle.


Keysigh year 2016 talk about trigger because they are married with they old ASIC. Of course they need say analog trigger is normal and most usual or as they say - digital trig is fairly rare (in truth not rare even on 2016 or well before).  :-DD  (of course they also have more modern higher level systems)

Siglent overall


And Siglent trigger (as also same principle in all scopes what have true digital side trigger. Of course details are then different and so on.


If thinking with analog is more easy... think - imagine there is DAC after ADC just in this line what come from ADC to trigger engine. These AC/DC/HF/LF circuits can then imagine in mind they are integrated to this line between this imagined DAC and Trigger "engine". So in mind imagined pathway is  ADC--DAC--Trigger AC/DC coupling and LF/HF filters -- Trigger "engine" what then do all these edge, pulse, runt, slope...lot of different functions.

Just successful using need bit exercise and all we have some learning curve. This can not do if just twiddle knobs as they are gameboy joystick. Best if if have some different test signals for exercises/training and carefully think what it is doing when adjust. After understand how it works living with it is more easy... other way... just mess and nightmare.
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 12:19:30 pm by rf-loop »
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Offline sng61

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Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
« Reply #1411 on: Yesterday at 02:07:41 pm »
Apparently these are the consequences of the language barrier and the translation of special terms.
I’ll say it even shorter:
In both parts of the video, there is the same signal, the customary aiming at the probe from the AC supply voltage sine 50 Hz 220v. Nothing hard to sync and display. But in the first part of the video the cursor is not visible, and in the other it is visible. There is no difference, DC or AC. The cursor is either visible or not, regardless of the change in the type of DC or AC. It should not be.
I have been working with this oscilloscope for more than 3 years, and similar situations with the disappearance of the cursor, do not happen very often, but periodically, and unpredictably.
I explained it more clearly?
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 02:33:57 pm by sng61 »
 

Offline McBryce

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Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
« Reply #1412 on: Yesterday at 02:50:19 pm »
Hi sng61,
    I think you are missing what he is trying to say. There are TWO settings that are important. One is the coupling of the CHANNEL: AC or DC. The other is the coupling of the TRIGGER: AC or DC. I'm not familiar with that particular scope, but you seem to have changed the TRIGGER coupling half way through the video.

McBryce.
 

Offline rf-loop

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Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
« Reply #1413 on: Yesterday at 02:56:00 pm »
Apparently these are the consequences of the language barrier and the translation of special terms.
I’ll say it even shorter:
In both parts of the video, there is the same signal, the customary aiming at the probe from the AC supply voltage sine 50 Hz 220v. Nothing hard to sync and display. But in the first part of the video the cursor is not visible, and in the other it is visible. There is no difference, DC or AC. The cursor is either visible or not, regardless of the change in the type of DC or AC. It should not be. I explained it more clearly?

Buuh....

I hope you watch carefully even once your own video.

Of course it do as you tell but you forget now one change what can see in video.

Really take now time and think, look your video and think. Read what I have told.

Yes you change there in video INPUT coupling AC/DC. Then also you twiddle trigger level knob.

But now I give one homework.

Why you do not note at all you have changed TRIGGER coupling between AC and DC. (when you paused video recording after 0:37 and then do something and after then you continue video recording or you have edited part of record away. . Sorry but after my long explanation you still continue this claim and reason is obvious. Trigger level cursor is not at all active when TRIGGER coupling is AC. It is disabled in this case and also independent of INPUT coupling AC or DC

Look before time position 0:37 there is TRIGGER coupling AC and trigger level marker off as designed..
After this point you do something (looks like video recording is paused) after then there can see that TRIGGER coupling is now DC and trigger level cursor(line) displayed when you move it and it disappear after time period automatically when not changed but leave trigger level mark in right side of display. Just as it is designed and works well.
Also after then somewhere around 0:47 you turn CHANNEL coupling to DC and of course this do not affect trigger level cursor. 
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 03:30:38 pm by rf-loop »
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Offline sng61

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Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
« Reply #1414 on: Yesterday at 03:48:09 pm »
Oh, this is not an easy job - to explain through a translator))  8)  |O

https://youtu.be/FsnhopZEPGk
From 0 to 0.37 is the first video where I recorded the "anomalous behavior" of the cursor, that is, its disappearance. Everything works fine, signal clearly synchronized, but the cursor is not visible! Both by the synchronization of the signal and by the numerical readings, it should be visible in the displayed field - but the cursor is not visible! This is a rare case. And without a difference, AC or DC, there is NO cursor AT ALL in any modes, if they disappeared once. Until I will reboot. Maybe I explained it more clearly?
After 0.37 comes the second part of the video. This is another video, shot with NORMAL operation of the oscilloscope, with the same settings and signal!!! Nothing has changed in the synchronize, trigger, channel.... and other settings! Nothing!!!!! And in this part (after 0.37) there are both AC and DC. This video is simply glued when editing the general video to show that the oscilloscope usually works NORMAL, and the trigger line is visible in all modes and settings.

P.S. Now... it seems to have understood what the problem is. The "Coupling" setting is spontaneously reset (knob "setup" on section "Trigger") to the "AC".

Thanks everyone for the help! ))
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 05:52:45 pm by sng61 »
 

Online mawyatt

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Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
« Reply #1415 on: Yesterday at 05:10:53 pm »
Somewhat related to these trigger discussions is the scope's ability to handle an small input with a large relative DC level without employing AC coupling and still achieve a reliable trigger.

To do this the input waveform DC value must be compensated (subtracted out) at the input preamp front end to keep the preamp & subsequent stages from saturation. The trigger comparison must come after the DC compensation. The DSO should have a low noise high resolution DAC capable of injecting a DC term at the front end to remove or reduce the signal's DC signal term and re-center the result around zero for the subsequent stages.

For example, consider an input of 0.004vpp @ 0.1Hz with a DC offset of 1.995 volts. This is a DC value 500 times the signal component, normally removed with AC coupling (5Hz) but at 0.1Hz the input is severely attenuated as shown. Note the input is at 500uv/div and sweep is 1s/div.

Result with DSO (5Hz -3dB) AC coupling,
[attach=1]

Result with DC coupling input using offset @ -2V
[attach=2]

Best,
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Offline McBryce

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Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
« Reply #1416 on: Yesterday at 05:50:42 pm »
It's not spontaneously reset. Modern scopes can be set to retain the previous setting when newly started or return to a default. The settings in your video are completely different in the second half of your video. This is plainly obvious in the video you posted. I suggest you spend more time understanding how this instrument works.

McBryce.

 

Online mawyatt

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Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
« Reply #1417 on: Yesterday at 06:47:52 pm »
Good suggestion McBryce and follows the First Four Proverbs from Lab EE Bible taught in EE Church.

1) Don't let Murphy in!!
2) If it ain't broke, don't fix it!!
3) Know thy Instruments!!
4) Repeat the 3 above Over and Over!!

We used to have a Dunce Cap filled with burnt and broken components that you had to wear if you messed something up :o 

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Offline sng61

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Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
« Reply #1418 on: Yesterday at 07:18:38 pm »
1. The settings in your video are completely different in the second half of your video. This is plainly obvious in the video you posted.
2. I suggest you spend more time understanding how this instrument works.
You have noticed everything very correctly! )
1. Yes, this is the cause of the cursor disappearing problem. I did not rebuilded the Trigger->Setup->Coupling to "AC". It happens somehow without my direct participation. And such surprises get in the way of work.
2. Yes, and I agree with that. Studying the device is a good thing)
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 07:25:43 pm by sng61 »
 

Offline ebastler

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Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
« Reply #1419 on: Yesterday at 07:55:20 pm »
I did not rebuilded the Trigger->Setup->Coupling to "AC". It happens somehow without my direct participation. And such surprises get in the way of work.

Hmm... You have shouted at the forum community, who tried to help you, in huge letters, and have implied that we are all fools. You have overlooked the clear pointer to AC trigger coupling from three different people five separate times. And now you are still telling us that "this happened on its own, without my participation". Yeah, right.
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
« Reply #1420 on: Yesterday at 08:02:55 pm »
I did not rebuilded the Trigger->Setup->Coupling to "AC". It happens somehow without my direct participation. And such surprises get in the way of work.

Hmm... You have shouted at the forum community, who tried to help you, in huge letters, and have implied that we are all fools. You have overlooked the clear pointer to AC trigger coupling from three different people five separate times. And now you are still telling us that "this happened on its own, without my participation". Yeah, right.
Yes I don't see how this can happen without some operator input.
To change from an AC coupled trigger to a DC coupled trigger requires the Trigger Setup menu to be open however if it is and the coupling box is open/active a small movement/bump of the multifunction control will change the trigger coupling.
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 08:27:20 pm by tautech »
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Offline sng61

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Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
« Reply #1421 on: Today at 01:05:32 am »
Quote
who tried to help you, in huge letters
Thanks for helps.
I'm not 'english". And through the translator, many meanings slip away. And so you yourself have to think a lot and look for the true meaning of what was said.

"this happened on its own, without my participation". Yeah, right.
yes. Really. without my participation. I did not go to this menu. This is the problem. And by default it is configured there for DC.

And... why shouldn't the cursor be visible if we see its numerical representation (in "AC")?
« Last Edit: Today at 01:18:10 am by sng61 »
 


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