Author Topic: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread  (Read 1618957 times)

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Offline Specmaster

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #10900 on: May 19, 2018, 11:14:13 pm »
Essex to the rescue again
Who let Murphy in?
 

Offline bd139

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #10901 on: May 19, 2018, 11:16:53 pm »
And worse yet, they "inspired" the designers of your scope to follow in the same ill-advised foosteps...

Telequipment were owned by Tektronix when this scope was made. I think some of the design people worked on the 22xx scopes so that might be where your problem is. Really shitty British engineering  :-DD

Essex to the rescue again

To quote a friend of mine who was dating a girl in Billericay; "Essex made me itchy". All is not forgiven yet :-DD
 

Offline mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #10902 on: May 19, 2018, 11:25:43 pm »
And worse yet, they "inspired" the designers of your scope to follow in the same ill-advised foosteps...

Telequipment were owned by Tektronix when this scope was made. I think some of the design people worked on the 22xx scopes so that might be where your problem is. Really shitty British engineering  :-DD

Essex to the rescue again

To quote a friend of mine who was dating a girl in Billericay; "Essex made me itchy". All is not forgiven yet :-DD


So you're saying that in this case, the shit rolled uphill?  :-DD Figures... If anybody can make that happen, it's ya'll "logic-be-damned" biscuit-eaters. :P

mnem
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Online tautech

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #10903 on: May 19, 2018, 11:28:36 pm »
Thanks for the link. I've got a spare HT transformer now in the other scope so I might unwind and count it out.
From the info in that manual I've mentioned there's no need.
One can calculate the wire length from the resistance and if you've got a crapped out transformer you can measure the wire gauge and come up with the length. If I were you I'd only take an accurate resistance measurement and record it in your archives....isn't that all you'd need to rebuild one ?
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Offline mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #10904 on: May 19, 2018, 11:35:24 pm »
I tend to agree; if I were going to unwind one to count it out, it'd be the dead one first. Only if I couldn't get a reasonably close count would I consider vivisecting a good xformer.


mnem
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Offline bd139

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #10905 on: May 19, 2018, 11:40:48 pm »
Fair points. The goal would be to produce a new HT transformer for it wound on a COTS E core. The ones in these have a Paxolin base which is nasty. I’ve done a couple of these before successfully.

I think I’ve negotiated another dead one off someone. They’re multiplying.  Well apart from the multipliers.
 

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #10906 on: May 19, 2018, 11:55:13 pm »
Fair points. The goal would be to produce a new HT transformer for it wound on a COTS E core. The ones in these have a Paxolin base which is nasty. I’ve done a couple of these before successfully.
That's where the L info on the manual could provide guidance on core selection but it's gunna be a suck it and see exercise IMO. Better you get those R and L measurements from a working one that you have. Then if you get a stuffed one the turns count will give further info.  :)

Wouldn't/couldn't you make a FR4 base ? I found the paxolin fine......treated with care and respect.
Or are you having trouble with those fingers again ?  :P  ;D
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Offline mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #10907 on: May 20, 2018, 12:00:39 am »
Fair points. The goal would be to produce a new HT transformer for it wound on a COTS E core. The ones in these have a Paxolin base which is nasty. I’ve done a couple of these before successfully.

I think I’ve negotiated another dead one off someone. They’re multiplying.  Well apart from the multipliers.

Can you re-engineer around the Tek/Murata 152-0806-00 multiplier on these? I think I bought the last NOS one in captivity for my 2230 about a year ago when I started on this latest stalled rebuild, but I still see them and the 152-1046-00 and the 152-0791-00 being sold "Used, Tested" on fleaBay; usually around $30-40.


[EDIT]

And isn't good ol' acetone the recommended solvent for phenol-based resins like Paxolin? I realize it may also strip the shellac off the wires, but who cares?

[/EDIT]


Cheers,

mnem
*poot*
« Last Edit: May 20, 2018, 12:12:05 am by mnementh »
 

Online tautech

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #10908 on: May 20, 2018, 12:07:06 am »
I did that same job on my Tek 2230 a decade ago; then replaced the HV multiplier flyback again this last time I worked on it. Altogether a right crunky affair; I get that the whole mess allowed them to run the beam at lower current, therefore better response and sharper focus at higher frequency... but damn. It's one of those designs that just seems to taunt Murphy.

And worse yet, they "inspired" the designers of your scope to follow in the same ill-advised foosteps...
mnem
Not a fan. Not a grommet, either.
It's a pretty standard CRT design and mostly reliable with modern components but the EHT and PDA is still often a primary failure point in CRO's, such are the stresses the components are under.
It's little wonder these days scope displays are nearly exclusively LCD.
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Offline Specmaster

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #10909 on: May 20, 2018, 12:11:16 am »
And worse yet, they "inspired" the designers of your scope to follow in the same ill-advised foosteps...

Telequipment were owned by Tektronix when this scope was made. I think some of the design people worked on the 22xx scopes so that might be where your problem is. Really shitty British engineering  :-DD

Essex to the rescue again

To quote a friend of mine who was dating a girl in Billericay; "Essex made me itchy". All is not forgiven yet :-DD

Humph with all recent murders in London, your more likely to survive a trip out my way than in your area, the locals here are more friendly, once they attack you, they give directions to the hospital 😇
Who let Murphy in?
 

Offline med6753

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #10910 on: May 20, 2018, 12:20:17 am »
Test Equipment Anonymous group therapy?  This whole thread is a sham!

It's like you walk up to a door that has an "AA" sign on it but when you open it and go inside the first guy you see is Sam Malone.

And everybody knows your name.

Thankfully, I don't have a problem and I don't need any help.

The mere fact that you are here indicts you as guilty. So what's you addiction? Post up! Mine is 7 vintage Fluke DMM's and 5 analog scopes so far. Plus all my other junk. And I'm always trying to make room for more.
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Offline mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #10911 on: May 20, 2018, 12:31:44 am »
I did that same job on my Tek 2230 a decade ago; then replaced the HV multiplier flyback again this last time I worked on it. Altogether a right crunky affair; I get that the whole mess allowed them to run the beam at lower current, therefore better response and sharper focus at higher frequency... but damn. It's one of those designs that just seems to taunt Murphy.

And worse yet, they "inspired" the designers of your scope to follow in the same ill-advised foosteps...
mnem
Not a fan. Not a grommet, either.
It's a pretty standard CRT design and mostly reliable with modern components but the EHT and PDA is still often a primary failure point in CRO's, such are the stresses the components are under.
It's little wonder these days scope displays are nearly exclusively LCD.

If by "Mostly reliable" you mean "most of the reliability issues are within these components on models that use this design" then I'll agree with you.  :-DD It seems to be the leading cause of death in the 22xx family by an order of magnitude for sure; their rate of extinction is directly proportional to the number of donor units left to scavenge HV multipliers from.

And before you say it doesn't, YES, it does have EVERYTHING to do with the design. Higher voltage in the primary means higher stress in everything in the HV transformer, and any distortion at those voltages becomes some pretty nasty reverse EMF.

IMO, the reason 'scopes today are nearly exclusively LCD is because we only have a relative handful of engineers who know more actual electronics theory than what they absolutely need to interface with a processor. It has nothing to do with what is a better technology; when it comes to troubleshooting noise issues I still look to my CROs first.


mnem
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Offline Cerebus

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #10912 on: May 20, 2018, 12:43:40 am »
To quote a friend of mine who was dating a girl in Billericay; "Essex made me itchy". All is not forgiven yet :-DD

"I come from Essex,
In case you couldn't tell.
My given name is Richard,
And I'm doing ... very well."
Anybody got a syringe I can use to squeeze the magic smoke back into this?
 

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #10913 on: May 20, 2018, 12:59:29 am »
I did that same job on my Tek 2230 a decade ago; then replaced the HV multiplier flyback again this last time I worked on it. Altogether a right crunky affair; I get that the whole mess allowed them to run the beam at lower current, therefore better response and sharper focus at higher frequency... but damn. It's one of those designs that just seems to taunt Murphy.

And worse yet, they "inspired" the designers of your scope to follow in the same ill-advised foosteps...
mnem
Not a fan. Not a grommet, either.
It's a pretty standard CRT design and mostly reliable with modern components but the EHT and PDA is still often a primary failure point in CRO's, such are the stresses the components are under.
It's little wonder these days scope displays are nearly exclusively LCD.

If by "Mostly reliable" you mean "most of the reliability issues are within these components on models that use this design" then I'll agree with you.  :-DD It seems to be the leading cause of death in the 22xx family by an order of magnitude for sure; their rate of extinction is directly proportional to the number of donor units left to scavenge HV multipliers from.

And before you say it doesn't, YES, it does have EVERYTHING to do with the design. Higher voltage in the primary means higher stress in everything in the HV transformer, and any distortion at those voltages becomes some pretty nasty reverse EMF.
mnem
That's muh story and ah'm stickin' teww itt.
And fair enough too.  :)
But let's look a little harder at this common and historical design, it requires quality and well spec'ed componentry, something the bean counters for decades have strived to reduce BOM cost on. PSU's, caps, in fact most component ratings are pushed to high % limits these days and maybe using modern components they'd be more reliable but it doesn't negate the fact LCD displays are now much cheaper to make than a CRT.
Watch this and tell me that isn't so  :P



Quote
IMO, the reason 'scopes today are nearly exclusively LCD is because we only have a relative handful of engineers who know more actual electronics theory than what they absolutely need to interface with a processor. It has nothing to do with what is a better technology; when it comes to troubleshooting noise issues I still look to my CROs first.
The world is a changing m'boy.   :box:
Good DSO's and knowing how to use one and you won't miss much.
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Offline mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #10914 on: May 20, 2018, 04:55:10 am »
Of course it's cheaper... but that doesn't necessarily mean BETTER. In fact, it USUALLY means one or more compromises.  ::)

And the fact you have to qualify that statement is the crux of the issue. You won't miss much. That says it all.

How many times have you heard someone tell a story of some inaccuracy in a modern DSO that was made glaringly obvious once the user switched to an even moderately well-specced analog 'scope? Sure, it's not MOST of the time. But sooner or later, you'll miss something.

My daily driver DS1054Z is a perfect example; it is a serviceable, well-rounded DSO that has amazing functionality at an amazing price point. For MOST of what I need a 'scope to do, it is all I need and more. This is a SUBJECTIVE evaluation, however, and purely based upon my needs at this moment.

The fact remains, as anyone who's used a vintage Tek in its prime will know, that it is OBJECTIVELY a crappy 'scope with poor definition and a number of QC issues and outright design flaws that introduce noise and make it actually distort the waveform horribly if pushed anywhere near its limits. This is in stark contrast to what we've come to expect from properly designed analog 'scopes, which will typically perform up to their rated frequency and well beyond, like bd139's latest acquisition, a 30-year-old 50MHz 'scope that isn't even fundamentally healthy, yet still performs at 125% of rated spec, and is capable of producing usable results at nearly twice rated spec.

The bottom line is... we STILL don't KNOW that what even a GOOD DSO shows us is right; we just trust that it is PROBABLY showing us a mostly accurate chart that mostly represents the waveform. Plenty of times we have to outwit the damned things to make sure what we're seeing (or worse yet, what we're NOT seeing) isn't just some damned artifact of the acquisition process.

And when we question what our DSO is showing us, what tool do we always reach for as a yardstick, just to be sure? Not usually another DSO... but rather the best analog 'scope we have handy set so we can "see with our own eyes" what we're not sure about... even if we know we'll only see a shadow or a momentary glimpse of what we're looking for to corroborate what we see on our DSO.

Yes, I know we live in an age where complex non-repetitive waveforms are the norm, and you MUST have a DSO (and usually a protocol analyzer as well) to be able to troubleshoot even the most basic devices anymore. But that does NOT in any way diminish the value of a quality analog 'scope. It only rightfully justifies their place on anybody's workbench.

The proof of this is that pretty much since their inception, whenever a manufacturer needed to "demonstrate" that their DSO is reproducing a waveform accurately, they held it up against a 24xx or a 7xxx series Tek 'scope (or similar, though what is "similar" is certainly a matter of argument) in prime condition.

Yeah, yeah... I know... not any more. There are a lot of newer 'scopes they use now as the "benchmark". But all of them ultimately were compared directly or indirectly against one of these benchmark 'scopes at some point in their history.

Just because we live in the digital age doesn't mean that analog is a thing of the past. Every digital signal must exist in the analog domain. This means a well-balanced understanding of analog circuitry and what does and does not work is still critical.

That, to me, is the most telling argument in favor of keeping CROs (especially these benchmark models) alive for at least a few more generations. If all they do is teach the next generation, by dint of having to learn how to service them and keep them alive, how a properly designed analog circuit works... they're still an invaluable tool.


mnem
*Toddles off to ded*
« Last Edit: May 20, 2018, 05:05:05 am by mnementh »
 

Offline Brumby

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #10915 on: May 20, 2018, 06:02:43 am »
My 15MHz Hitachi CRO was able to show me a 27MHz RF transmission with enough amplitude for me to see the transmitter working as expected.  Would a similar bandwidth DSO?
 

Offline Specmaster

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #10916 on: May 20, 2018, 08:05:27 am »
My 15MHz Hitachi CRO was able to show me a 27MHz RF transmission with enough amplitude for me to see the transmitter working as expected.  Would a similar bandwidth DSO?
I would expect not, you are asking it to be able to perform at almost twice its design criteria.

From mobile device so predictive text might have struck again

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Offline Specmaster

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #10917 on: May 20, 2018, 08:12:33 am »
Of course it's cheaper... but that doesn't necessarily mean BETTER. In fact, it USUALLY means one or more compromises.  ::)

And the fact you have to qualify that statement is the crux of the issue. You won't miss much. That says it all.

How many times have you heard someone tell a story of some inaccuracy in a modern DSO that was made glaringly obvious once the user switched to an even moderately well-specced analog 'scope? Sure, it's not MOST of the time. But sooner or later, you'll miss something.

My daily driver DS1054Z is a perfect example; it is a serviceable, well-rounded DSO that has amazing functionality at an amazing price point. For MOST of what I need a 'scope to do, it is all I need and more. This is a SUBJECTIVE evaluation, however, and purely based upon my needs at this moment.

The fact remains, as anyone who's used a vintage Tek in its prime will know, that it is OBJECTIVELY a crappy 'scope with poor definition and a number of QC issues and outright design flaws that introduce noise and make it actually distort the waveform horribly if pushed anywhere near its limits. This is in stark contrast to what we've come to expect from properly designed analog 'scopes, which will typically perform up to their rated frequency and well beyond, like bd139's latest acquisition, a 30-year-old 50MHz 'scope that isn't even fundamentally healthy, yet still performs at 125% of rated spec, and is capable of producing usable results at nearly twice rated spec.

The bottom line is... we STILL don't KNOW that what even a GOOD DSO shows us is right; we just trust that it is PROBABLY showing us a mostly accurate chart that mostly represents the waveform. Plenty of times we have to outwit the damned things to make sure what we're seeing (or worse yet, what we're NOT seeing) isn't just some damned artifact of the acquisition process.

And when we question what our DSO is showing us, what tool do we always reach for as a yardstick, just to be sure? Not usually another DSO... but rather the best analog 'scope we have handy set so we can "see with our own eyes" what we're not sure about... even if we know we'll only see a shadow or a momentary glimpse of what we're looking for to corroborate what we see on our DSO.

Yes, I know we live in an age where complex non-repetitive waveforms are the norm, and you MUST have a DSO (and usually a protocol analyzer as well) to be able to troubleshoot even the most basic devices anymore. But that does NOT in any way diminish the value of a quality analog 'scope. It only rightfully justifies their place on anybody's workbench.

The proof of this is that pretty much since their inception, whenever a manufacturer needed to "demonstrate" that their DSO is reproducing a waveform accurately, they held it up against a 24xx or a 7xxx series Tek 'scope (or similar, though what is "similar" is certainly a matter of argument) in prime condition.

Yeah, yeah... I know... not any more. There are a lot of newer 'scopes they use now as the "benchmark". But all of them ultimately were compared directly or indirectly against one of these benchmark 'scopes at some point in their history.

Just because we live in the digital age doesn't mean that analog is a thing of the past. Every digital signal must exist in the analog domain. This means a well-balanced understanding of analog circuitry and what does and does not work is still critical.

That, to me, is the most telling argument in favor of keeping CROs (especially these benchmark models) alive for at least a few more generations. If all they do is teach the next generation, by dint of having to learn how to service them and keep them alive, how a properly designed analog circuit works... they're still an invaluable tool.


mnem
*Toddles off to ded*
Check through Daves video's and I think you will find many references to the fact CROs are better performers in lots if ways and noise is just one them. In fact he advocates that every lab should have at least one CRO on its bench. Me, I'd love to be able to afford both but sadly DSOs are still out of my reach so I'll carry on with my 4 CROs for a while yet.

From mobile device so predictive text might have struck again

Who let Murphy in?
 

Offline Specmaster

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #10918 on: May 20, 2018, 08:22:49 am »
To quote a friend of mine who was dating a girl in Billericay; "Essex made me itchy". All is not forgiven yet :-DD

"I come from Essex,
In case you couldn't tell.
My given name is Richard,
And I'm doing ... very well."
Couldn't agree more, I feel much safer in Essex then I would / do in London area for instance. I have worked all over the London area for the last 35 plus years and never once felt at risk, however that is not the case these days for a whole host of reasons.

I'm afraid it's the same situation though, it's the minority who spoil it for the majority. Because of the authorities inability to deal with those people effectively, I don't see things getting better anytime soon.

From mobile device so predictive text might have struck again

Who let Murphy in?
 

Offline Specmaster

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #10919 on: May 20, 2018, 08:34:10 am »
Yes this has the original caps in it. They are rotten old bits of crap. Flat ceramics, speckled and cracked and film ones which look cracked too. Will be replaced. I've priced a few up and they're not that expensive fortunately. Will order next week once I've checked it over properly. You can apparently get a suitable equivalent multiplier from a company called High Voltage Modules in Braintree here in the UK. I'll give them a call.

Thanks for the link. I've got a spare HT transformer now in the other scope so I might unwind and count it out.

Have just ordered power supply caps. Cost a whopping £5 from RS so far. Embarrassingly small compared to the originals!
Yep, find that happens a lot these days as they get better quality, kind of begs the question though that if they make them to the original size, wouldn't they also last a lot longer?

From mobile device so predictive text might have struck again

Who let Murphy in?
 

Offline med6753

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #10920 on: May 20, 2018, 08:51:07 am »
Well I found out what's wrong with Channel 2 on the Tek 465 and it's not pretty. The X100 attenuator comprising of C60 and C61 has cold solder joints. I was able to pull the assembly off the board with little effort. Now normally this wouldn't be a big deal. Put it back on and re-solder. But not this board. You can't get to the backside of the vertical board unless you pull it. And it's going to be a nightmare to pull. I'm thinking of cutting my losses and just using it as a single trace scope.

Bd139, what do you think? You have a lot of experience with 465's. Pull it or leave it? Right now I'm going to get some sleep. Had to work some overtime tonight and then come home and discover this shitty issue.    :rant: :wtf:
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Offline bd139

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #10921 on: May 20, 2018, 08:59:01 am »
Couldn't agree more, I feel much safer in Essex then I would / do in London area for instance. I have worked all over the London area for the last 35 plus years and never once felt at risk, however that is not the case these days for a whole host of reasons.

London is fine. I’m in and out of the city 2-3 times a week. Safer than any Essex town on a Saturday night. You tend to find that any issues are between isolated groups of people.

Yep, find that happens a lot these days as they get better quality, kind of begs the question though that if they make them to the original size, wouldn't they also last a lot longer?

Well not necessarily. The original ones were technology constrained. We have a lot better materials now and a lot bette electrolytes. As long as you stay off the cheap ones then you’re fine. I’ve got a rule of Vishay, Epcos, Rubycon, Panasonic only.

Well I found out what's wrong with Channel 2 on the Tek 465 and it's not pretty. The X100 attenuator comprising of C60 and C61 has cold solder joints. I was able to pull the assembly off the board with little effort. Now normally this wouldn't be a big deal. Put it back on and re-solder. But not this board. You can't get to the backside of the vertical board unless you pull it. And it's going to be a nightmare to pull. I'm thinking of cutting my losses and just using it as a single trace scope.

Bd139, what do you think? You have a lot of experience with 465's. Pull it or leave it? Right now I'm going to get some sleep. Had to work some overtime tonight and then come home and discover this shitty issue.    :rant: :wtf:

I’d pull the vertical out and re-solder it if you can. While you’re at it clean the leaf switches on the back of the board too. It’s not too difficult to get out. Just watch that little carbon comp resistor connecting the attenuator to the front end. They break in half. I’ve not had a say joint on one of them yet. I’ve usually seen smoked attenuator modules though. It’s always the 100x one that gets toasted.
 

Offline Specmaster

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #10922 on: May 20, 2018, 09:00:22 am »
Well I found out what's wrong with Channel 2 on the Tek 465 and it's not pretty. The X100 attenuator comprising of C60 and C61 has cold solder joints. I was able to pull the assembly off the board with little effort. Now normally this wouldn't be a big deal. Put it back on and re-solder. But not this board. You can't get to the backside of the vertical board unless you pull it. And it's going to be a nightmare to pull. I'm thinking of cutting my losses and just using it as a single trace scope.

Bd139, what do you think? You have a lot of experience with 465's. Pull it or leave it? Right now I'm going to get some sleep. Had to work some overtime tonight and then come home and discover this shitty issue.    :rant: :wtf:
Personally I'd say pull it, but that said I have no idea just how difficult that is on Teks having never owned one. The finished result should be worth the effort though, bd139 always makes his look so dammed attractive.

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Offline Specmaster

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #10923 on: May 20, 2018, 09:07:50 am »
Couldn't agree more, I feel much safer in Essex then I would / do in London area for instance. I have worked all over the London area for the last 35 plus years and never once felt at risk, however that is not the case these days for a whole host of reasons.

London is fine. I’m in and out of the city 2-3 times a week. Safer than any Essex town on a Saturday night. You tend to find that any issues are between isolated groups of people.

Yep, find that happens a lot these days as they get better quality, kind of begs the question though that if they make them to the original size, wouldn't they also last a lot longer?

Well not necessarily. The original ones were technology constrained. We have a lot better materials now and a lot bette electrolytes. As long as you stay off the cheap ones then you’re fine. I’ve got a rule of Vishay, Epcos, Rubycon, Panasonic only.

Well I found out what's wrong with Channel 2 on the Tek 465 and it's not pretty. The X100 attenuator comprising of C60 and C61 has cold solder joints. I was able to pull the assembly off the board with little effort. Now normally this wouldn't be a big deal. Put it back on and re-solder. But not this board. You can't get to the backside of the vertical board unless you pull it. And it's going to be a nightmare to pull. I'm thinking of cutting my losses and just using it as a single trace scope.

Bd139, what do you think? You have a lot of experience with 465's. Pull it or leave it? Right now I'm going to get some sleep. Had to work some overtime tonight and then come home and discover this shitty issue.    :rant: :wtf:

I’d pull the vertical out and re-solder it if you can. While you’re at it clean the leaf switches on the back of the board too. It’s not too difficult to get out. Just watch that little carbon comp resistor connecting the attenuator to the front end. They break in half. I’ve not had a say joint on one of them yet. I’ve usually seen smoked attenuator modules though. It’s always the 100x one that gets toasted.
In Essex for starters, we don't have a history of terrorism so that aspect alone must make it safer, one less threat and far far less organised crime gangs fighting over turf.

From mobile device so predictive text might have struck again

Who let Murphy in?
 

Offline bd139

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #10924 on: May 20, 2018, 09:12:14 am »
Terrorism is minor compared to other crimes.

Also I think you need to read up on the drug dealers in Essex. I used to go out with one :)
 


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