Author Topic: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread  (Read 1808248 times)

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Offline Specmaster

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #10925 on: May 20, 2018, 09:31:29 am »
Terrorism is minor compared to other crimes.

Also I think you need to read up on the drug dealers in Essex. I used to go out with one :)
Crime is everywhere, but so far we don't have moped gangs etc, shootings are very rare etc.
SWMBO works in Crown Court so I'm only to aware of what happens around here, and according to what the media reports and I hear locally, there is no doubt about it London is the crime capital.

I wonder what RS will do now with the 3478A now that they have seen the photos complete with the exifs that prove when they were taken. There is no way that a momentary short via the solder would render it unrepairable, it was not even powered up for gods sake. The cynic in me thinks that sales of new meters might be down and they are trying to get me to buy one, no frigging way am I buying one. [emoji16]

From mobile device so predictive text might have struck again [emoji83]

Who let Murphy in?
 

Online bd139

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #10926 on: May 20, 2018, 09:45:17 am »
Terrorism is minor compared to other crimes.

Also I think you need to read up on the drug dealers in Essex. I used to go out with one :)
Crime is everywhere, but so far we don't have moped gangs etc, shootings are very rare etc.
SWMBO works in Crown Court so I'm only to aware of what happens around here, and according to what the media reports and I hear locally, there is no doubt about it London is the crime capital.

That's because there's more people

I wonder what RS will do now with the 3478A now that they have seen the photos complete with the exifs that prove when they were taken. There is no way that a momentary short via the solder would render it unrepairable, it was not even powered up for gods sake. The cynic in me thinks that sales of new meters might be down and they are trying to get me to buy one, no frigging way am I buying one. [emoji16]

From mobile device so predictive text might have struck again [emoji83]

Probably a combination of muppetry and salesmanship. Not sure what you can do about it really. I will drop mine of at Calmet and see what they come back with when I get a few minutes.

 

Offline Specmaster

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #10927 on: May 20, 2018, 09:47:46 am »
Terrorism is minor compared to other crimes.

Also I think you need to read up on the drug dealers in Essex. I used to go out with one :)
Crime is everywhere, but so far we don't have moped gangs etc, shootings are very rare etc.
SWMBO works in Crown Court so I'm only to aware of what happens around here, and according to what the media reports and I hear locally, there is no doubt about it London is the crime capital.

That's because there's more people

I wonder what RS will do now with the 3478A now that they have seen the photos complete with the exifs that prove when they were taken. There is no way that a momentary short via the solder would render it unrepairable, it was not even powered up for gods sake. The cynic in me thinks that sales of new meters might be down and they are trying to get me to buy one, no frigging way am I buying one. [emoji16]

From mobile device so predictive text might have struck again [emoji83]

Probably a combination of muppetry and salesmanship. Not sure what you can do about it really. I will drop mine of at Calmet and see what they come back with when I get a few minutes.
Thought you'd got yours to agree with your Agilent, that's good enough surely?

From mobile device so predictive text might have struck again [emoji83]

Who let Murphy in?
 

Online tautech

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #10928 on: May 20, 2018, 09:50:17 am »
My 15MHz Hitachi CRO was able to show me a 27MHz RF transmission with enough amplitude for me to see the transmitter working as expected.  Would a similar bandwidth DSO?
I don't think you can buy such a low BW DSO and who'd want to.  :P

Some screenshots showing what is possible at a pinch:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/msg1553074/#msg1553074
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Online bd139

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #10929 on: May 20, 2018, 10:37:55 am »
Thought you'd got yours to agree with your Agilent, that's good enough surely?

I did but that's only on 4 digit resolution. Perhaps I'm slowly turning into a voltnut :)
 

Offline Brumby

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #10930 on: May 20, 2018, 11:01:13 am »
My 15MHz Hitachi CRO was able to show me a 27MHz RF transmission with enough amplitude for me to see the transmitter working as expected.  Would a similar bandwidth DSO?
I don't think you can buy such a low BW DSO and who'd want to.  :P
I knew someone would arc up over the 15MHz bandwidth ... and my response is simple - scale it up to whatever number becomes competitive and then comment.

It's the principle in question.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2018, 11:02:49 am by Brumby »
 

Online bd139

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #10931 on: May 20, 2018, 11:07:11 am »
FFS is there a component shortage at the moment. Went to basket and all the parts I put in are out of bloody stock. Shopping around to no avail.
 

Offline Specmaster

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #10932 on: May 20, 2018, 11:13:53 am »
Thought you'd got yours to agree with your Agilent, that's good enough surely?

I did but that's only on 4 digit resolution. Perhaps I'm slowly turning into a voltnut :)
My new gadget has 4 digit resolution when it arrives so that do all the 3 and 4.5 digit meters and then from a known value I think it should be possible to take a calculated guess on the 5th digit from looking at the 4th on a 4.5 and on the 5. 5 surely?

From mobile device so predictive text might have struck again [emoji83]

Who let Murphy in?
 

Online bd139

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #10933 on: May 20, 2018, 11:42:31 am »
You can indeed do that. However if you cal at 1/3 FSD then the error is 3x as great at FSD.

Ordered caps for power supply finally. Managed to get it down to £8.34 for full rebuild with stock I have plus new bits. Not bad. Once that's working (there is ripple on it) then I will proceed to rebuild the HT.
 

Offline Specmaster

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #10934 on: May 20, 2018, 01:59:22 pm »
You can indeed do that. However if you cal at 1/3 FSD then the error is 3x as great at FSD.

Ordered caps for power supply finally. Managed to get it down to £8.34 for full rebuild with stock I have plus new bits. Not bad. Once that's working (there is ripple on it) then I will proceed to rebuild the HT.
Over at North Weald airfield today in the lovely sun again taking a few photos of the Gnats display team getting some practise in for their displays coming up soon. Beautiful day here, pop a couple of pics up later along with some from Old Warden yesterday, later.

From mobile device so predictive text might have struck again [emoji83]

Who let Murphy in?
 

Online mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #10935 on: May 20, 2018, 02:12:58 pm »
Well I found out what's wrong with Channel 2 on the Tek 465 and it's not pretty. The X100 attenuator comprising of C60 and C61 has cold solder joints. I was able to pull the assembly off the board with little effort. Now normally this wouldn't be a big deal. Put it back on and re-solder. But not this board. You can't get to the backside of the vertical board unless you pull it. And it's going to be a nightmare to pull. I'm thinking of cutting my losses and just using it as a single trace scope.

Bd139, what do you think? You have a lot of experience with 465's. Pull it or leave it? Right now I'm going to get some sleep. Had to work some overtime tonight and then come home and discover this shitty issue.    :rant: :wtf:
Personally I'd say pull it, but that said I have no idea just how difficult that is on Teks having never owned one. The finished result should be worth the effort though, bd139 always makes his look so dammed attractive.

From mobile device so predictive text might have struck again [emoji83]

It doesn't matter what any of us think; you and I both know that now that you know what the problem is, you're not going to be able to live with the 'scope (or yourself) until you either fix it properly or ship it off to some other poor bastard. Until you do it will just sit there mocking you; every moment of the day and night.  :-DD


mnem
It mocks me and I feel mocked!!!
 

Online mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #10936 on: May 20, 2018, 02:58:15 pm »
(SNIP)
And fair enough too.  :)
But let's look a little harder at this common and historical design, it requires quality and well spec'ed componentry, something the bean counters for decades have strived to reduce BOM cost on. PSU's, caps, in fact most component ratings are pushed to high % limits these days and maybe using modern components they'd be more reliable but it doesn't negate the fact LCD displays are now much cheaper to make than a CRT.
Watch this and tell me that isn't so  :P



(SNIP)

You know something else we see in this video? Aside from it being a showcase of high-technology precision manufacturing, we see people... lots of them  (and interestingly, a large percentage of them women  ;)), gainfully employed, doing work that requires skill and patience. Fueling a good work ethic, and fueling the economy.

This is the precise opposite of the bean counters' goal; which is to reduce all jobs to monkey work so that skill has no value therefore demands as little pay as possible, and then if possible, to replace those monkeys with machines that require no paycheck at all.

Fuck the bean-counters. And fuck the people who think the beans are all that matters. The only place that is true is when you're making coffee.


mnem
And chocolate... mmmmmm.... chocolate.  :P
« Last Edit: May 20, 2018, 03:05:02 pm by mnementh »
 

Offline Cerebus

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #10937 on: May 20, 2018, 03:18:29 pm »
To quote a friend of mine who was dating a girl in Billericay; "Essex made me itchy". All is not forgiven yet :-DD

"I come from Essex,
In case you couldn't tell.
My given name is Richard,
And I'm doing ... very well."
Couldn't agree more, I feel much safer in Essex then I would / do in London area for instance. I have worked all over the London area for the last 35 plus years and never once felt at risk, however that is not the case these days for a whole host of reasons.

I'm afraid it's the same situation though, it's the minority who spoil it for the majority. Because of the authorities inability to deal with those people effectively, I don't see things getting better anytime soon. [emoji850]

From mobile device so predictive text might have struck again [emoji83]

Ah, you've missed it. Perhaps you're not of quite the right generation (although for some reason we all seem to be remarkably close in age). That's Ian Dury's spoken intro to the song "Billericay Dickie".
Anybody got a syringe I can use to squeeze the magic smoke back into this?
 

Offline GerryBags

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #10938 on: May 20, 2018, 03:23:35 pm »
While I'm waiting for bits, I finally got round to sorting out the time-base knob on the 2465B. It had been sheared off where the grub screw bit on the shaft. I drilled the shaft, pinned it with a length of brass micro-tube which got the ends squished flat and was bonded in with vinyl superglue (PC-80). I drilled out a length of styrene rod , heated the squished end of the pin a little and glued that on with the PC-80 too. That's the white section. It was much easier this way than dismantling the front panel and replacing the shaft, and it seems plenty strong enough. A tap on the end gives a single, solid response from the shaft as a whole. I'm happy, even if it does show up the bromine on the older plastic a bit.

 

Offline Cerebus

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #10939 on: May 20, 2018, 03:28:44 pm »
Terrorism is minor compared to other crimes.

Also I think you need to read up on the drug dealers in Essex. I used to go out with one :)
Crime is everywhere, but so far we don't have moped gangs etc, shootings are very rare etc.
SWMBO works in Crown Court so I'm only to aware of what happens around here, and according to what the media reports and I hear locally, there is no doubt about it London is the crime capital.

That's because there's more people

I'd say no. I'd say that it's perceived as such because the media are so London-centric. If there's a shooting in London it gets reported on the national 6 O'clock news, if it's in, say, Newcastle (upon Tyne) it doesn't. Do you recall any news reports of shootings in London this year? Probably yes. Do you recall any news reports of shootings in Newcastle this year? Probably no. Now Google "shooting Newcastle".
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Online bd139

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #10940 on: May 20, 2018, 03:35:39 pm »
Good point. No one gives a shit about anywhere other than London then :D

While I'm waiting for bits, I finally got round to sorting out the time-base knob on the 2465B. It had been sheared off where the grub screw bit on the shaft. I drilled the shaft, pinned it with a length of brass micro-tube which got the ends squished flat and was bonded in with vinyl superglue (PC-80). I drilled out a length of styrene rod , heated the squished end of the pin a little and glued that on with the PC-80 too. That's the white section. It was much easier this way than dismantling the front panel and replacing the shaft, and it seems plenty strong enough. A tap on the end gives a single, solid response from the shaft as a whole. I'm happy, even if it does show up the bromine on the older plastic a bit.

That looks really neat. Nice job with the fix  :-+ .  When I see things in that state it usually puts me off.

Did some tests with my Keysight U1241C to see what lies there are in the spec sheet. It quotes only 2KHz AC bandwidth and 15MHz frequency measurement. I just measured it 100% flat to 66KHz. 3dB point is 145KHz. Will read still frequency to about 22MHz. Well done Keysight. Way over spec.

 
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Offline GerryBags

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #10941 on: May 20, 2018, 03:51:00 pm »
Cheers, it's ironic that the reason I have found such strong glues is because I spent years sticking bits of photoetch brass together whilst actively putting off learning how to solder properly. Now I've stopped sticking bits of brass together (otherwise known as military model-making) I'm getting quite good at soldering. I've got some nifty tricks for knocking up things out of plastic and metal, though, as long as they're not very large.

So nice to see outrageous over-specification like that Keysight meter. It's the antithesis of marketing bollocks. Quality!
 

Online bd139

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #10942 on: May 20, 2018, 03:55:21 pm »
I've dabbled a bit in the etched brass in the past myself, albeit with the trains. Great fun. Soldering it (and white metal!) is a dick compared to electronics work so I'm not surprised it put you off.
 

Online mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #10943 on: May 20, 2018, 04:25:06 pm »

 
While I'm waiting for bits, I finally got round to sorting out the time-base knob on the 2465B. It had been sheared off where the grub screw bit on the shaft. I drilled the shaft, pinned it with a length of brass micro-tube which got the ends squished flat and was bonded in with vinyl superglue (PC-80). I drilled out a length of styrene rod , heated the squished end of the pin a little and glued that on with the PC-80 too. That's the white section. It was much easier this way than dismantling the front panel and replacing the shaft, and it seems plenty strong enough. A tap on the end gives a single, solid response from the shaft as a whole. I'm happy, even if it does show up the bromine on the older plastic a bit.



Interesting alternative to my own similar repair using splice & solder technique a few weeks ago...


mnem
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Offline GerryBags

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #10944 on: May 20, 2018, 04:46:29 pm »
BD139 - I never had the guts to tackle a train but always admired the brass ones, they look beautiful in natural brass and very realistic when painted. Even doing smaller stuff I found the sense of accomplishment thing a very rare occurrence compared to electronics. Finished models only numbered two to five in a good year, and then I always felt I could have done certain things better. I get a bigger buzz every time I track down an issue and fix it (still rare, but not AS rare).

Mnem- Very nice scarf join! Did that not take a lot of heat? I'm lucky the shafts on the 24XX's are plastic.... my soldering is not that good yet.
 

Online bd139

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #10945 on: May 20, 2018, 05:16:45 pm »
Yeah know how that feels.  I had a pile of unbuilt kits floating around when I was into that. I completed an RJH class 37. That took me most of a year (1994-1995 autumn/winter/spring) and way too much money :(
 

Online med6753

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #10946 on: May 20, 2018, 05:21:37 pm »
Well I found out what's wrong with Channel 2 on the Tek 465 and it's not pretty. The X100 attenuator comprising of C60 and C61 has cold solder joints. I was able to pull the assembly off the board with little effort. Now normally this wouldn't be a big deal. Put it back on and re-solder. But not this board. You can't get to the backside of the vertical board unless you pull it. And it's going to be a nightmare to pull. I'm thinking of cutting my losses and just using it as a single trace scope.

Bd139, what do you think? You have a lot of experience with 465's. Pull it or leave it? Right now I'm going to get some sleep. Had to work some overtime tonight and then come home and discover this shitty issue.    :rant: :wtf:
Personally I'd say pull it, but that said I have no idea just how difficult that is on Teks having never owned one. The finished result should be worth the effort though, bd139 always makes his look so dammed attractive.

From mobile device so predictive text might have struck again [emoji83]

It doesn't matter what any of us think; you and I both know that now that you know what the problem is, you're not going to be able to live with the 'scope (or yourself) until you either fix it properly or ship it off to some other poor bastard. Until you do it will just sit there mocking you; every moment of the day and night.  :-DD


mnem
It mocks me and I feel mocked!!!

You got that right. I hate doing something half assed. Leaving this 465 with one dead channel is definitely in that category. Now that I've slept on it I've decided come hell or high water I'm gonna fix it.

I pried the top off X100 attenuator and checked it under a magnifier. I don't see any burning or other damage. Between the 2 inner pins I measured 1.0MEG. From the inner pins to all the outer pins I measured open except one which was 10K. I assume this is OK since the schematic does not show it's inner detail. The "opens" should be the variable caps. I cleaned it in IPA. I'll gently scuff up the pins for good solder adhesion.

Don't have time today to start pulling out the vertical board. I'll definitely report back.   
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Offline Specmaster

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #10947 on: May 20, 2018, 05:27:40 pm »
To quote a friend of mine who was dating a girl in Billericay; "Essex made me itchy". All is not forgiven yet :-DD

"I come from Essex,
In case you couldn't tell.
My given name is Richard,
And I'm doing ... very well."
Couldn't agree more, I feel much safer in Essex then I would / do in London area for instance. I have worked all over the London area for the last 35 plus years and never once felt at risk, however that is not the case these days for a whole host of reasons.

I'm afraid it's the same situation though, it's the minority who spoil it for the majority. Because of the authorities inability to deal with those people effectively, I don't see things getting better anytime soon. [emoji850]

From mobile device so predictive text might have struck again [emoji83]

Ah, you've missed it. Perhaps you're not of quite the right generation (although for some reason we all seem to be remarkably close in age). That's Ian Dury's spoken intro to the song "Billericay Dickie".
Hit me hit me hit me....rhythm stick...
.

From mobile device so predictive text might have struck again [emoji83]

Who let Murphy in?
 

Online tautech

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #10948 on: May 20, 2018, 07:59:52 pm »
You know something else we see in this video? Aside from it being a showcase of high-technology precision manufacturing, we see people... lots of them  (and interestingly, a large percentage of them women  ;)), gainfully employed, doing work that requires skill and patience. Fueling a good work ethic, and fueling the economy.

This is the precise opposite of the bean counters' goal; which is to reduce all jobs to monkey work so that skill has no value therefore demands as little pay as possible, and then if possible, to replace those monkeys with machines that require no paycheck at all.
Well you can only hope that Trumpy can get some of that manufacturing back as it's now mostly done in Asia even by the big brands and whatdoya know..... and by lots of women too.
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Offline Specmaster

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #10949 on: May 20, 2018, 09:29:40 pm »
As requested by some of the members, here is a small selection of photos from the Shuttleworth evening air show Saturday 19/5/18










And these ones were taken at North Weald Airfield when I went to watch the Gnat Display team training for the upcoming display season and was also escorted by a member of the airfield ops team to the opposite end of the airfield which is off limits to the general public, to get some photos of some Jet Provosts coming in to land and also do a few running breaks. There was a lot of general aviation landing and taking off as well and I include just one of these planes landing. Taken on 20/5/18












All of these photos are totally unedited and are therefore straight from the camera.


 
« Last Edit: May 20, 2018, 09:38:48 pm by Specmaster »
Who let Murphy in?
 
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