Author Topic: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread  (Read 1517361 times)

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Online med6753

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #11175 on: May 24, 2018, 11:00:08 pm »
The 3478A is on the sweet spot between boringly innaccurate and voltnut crazy. It’s just right  ;D
Yep, bang on there, even now the last digit changing about can be a distraction at times, imagine if you had 2 or 3 changing

From mobile device so predictive text might have struck again

Now that you've got the 3478A where you want it I would advise you to buy a 2nd AD584. Why? As a cross check. If something starts drifting you'll know right away which device is going south. That's what I've done here. And I document the results. My most accurate DMM is a Fluke 8800A. Here's the chart of how it compares to each AD584. I'll know right away if there's an issue.

1st AD584      8800A

2.50066         2.5007
4.99794         4.9979
7.50011         7.5002
9.99691         9.9970

2nd AD584     8800A

2.49937         2.4994
5.00030         5.0003
7.50042         7.5004
10.00096       10.0010     
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Online mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #11176 on: May 24, 2018, 11:58:00 pm »
From what I've seen online (haven't opened it yet) the insides of the 3455A may well induce some wood.

Some great photos in those Volker Ruff books, plus all the necessary plans to build a Fries 16T gantry crane, should the need ever arise (?). I think the range of engines (and guns) they managed to shoe-horn into the Sherman is what it made it such a success. The Chrysler Multibank from the M4A4 has to be my favourite, even more than the radial. Five V8's on a common crank, genius!




Here's how they tied those 6-cyl Chrysler L-blocks together.

I personally prefer the Ford GAA (1100CID, All-Aluminum 60 degree DOHC V8!!!); its ungodly torque and narrow block is the stuff of my hot-rod dreams. It was originally designed as a V12 counterpart to the Rolls Merlin aircraft engine, but Ford couldn't get a foot in the door for non-radial designs, so it evolved (devolved?) into this.


https://youtu.be/Z88gEaY0BeY

The Chrysler multibank had a unique sound though; 5 cylinders firing simultaneously at 60 degree offset is definitely different. If they'd made an OHV version it could've been even more amazing.




And, to keep it moderately TEA related, here's a video of NYAN CAT on an oscilloscope.  :P


mnem
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Online bd139

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #11177 on: May 25, 2018, 02:00:54 am »
Well some bad news. Looks like my “good” telequipment D83 has been bodged heavily and got at. This is going to take a long time to work through and fix. Total strip down and rebuild at least.
 

Online bd139

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #11178 on: May 25, 2018, 02:59:16 am »
Well 20 minutes into the D83 and the power supply board is out of the good one and it is in a right state. Genuinely surprised it even powered up. I'm going to swap the entire bottom half of the dead scope into the good one. That has IEC sockets, a board which isn't totalled and some healthier looking parts on it. I've got replacement caps so will re-cap, rebuild the power supply and backplane. Fun fun fun! Will temporarily jump the mains switch to bring the power supply up on its own.

This is quite difficult to work on this one. Everything is soldered individual wires. Fortunately it's "solder by numbers" so easy enough to put back together after.  I'm happy for once. No 10 minute easy fix here!

Some pictures:

Gunky cap vomit, courtesy of another British quality manufacturer (not): ITT.



PCB-eep! This might have survived if it wasn't for the massive bodge wires helping electrolyte puke capillary action.



Now for some engineering fun that my mother warned me about. The reason those big black wires are on there is a quality control fail. The board exposure was done badly and had gaps in the ground trace. It likely got all the way through assembly like this and then some poor fucker had to debug it and just jumped the duff traces with bodge wire  :palm:  :palm:  :palm:  :palm:

Other board is in much better state so will just sub that in.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2018, 03:02:41 am by bd139 »
 

Offline Specmaster

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #11179 on: May 25, 2018, 05:05:13 am »
Well 20 minutes into the D83 and the power supply board is out of the good one and it is in a right state. Genuinely surprised it even powered up. I'm going to swap the entire bottom half of the dead scope into the good one. That has IEC sockets, a board which isn't totalled and some healthier looking parts on it. I've got replacement caps so will re-cap, rebuild the power supply and backplane. Fun fun fun! Will temporarily jump the mains switch to bring the power supply up on its own.

This is quite difficult to work on this one. Everything is soldered individual wires. Fortunately it's "solder by numbers" so easy enough to put back together after.  I'm happy for once. No 10 minute easy fix here!

Some pictures:

Gunky cap vomit, courtesy of another British quality manufacturer (not): ITT.



PCB-eep! This might have survived if it wasn't for the massive bodge wires helping electrolyte puke capillary action.



Now for some engineering fun that my mother warned me about. The reason those big black wires are on there is a quality control fail. The board exposure was done badly and had gaps in the ground trace. It likely got all the way through assembly like this and then some poor fucker had to debug it and just jumped the duff traces with bodge wire  :palm:  :palm:  :palm:  :palm:

Other board is in much better state so will just sub that in.
That is rapidly becoming a horror story but if anyone can beat it, that's you, you owe it to your Mother Regarding ITT in the electrical world when they had an interest in wholesaling there was a story that ITT stood for "It takes time" and later they changed their name and became even worse. The new name was STC and never had much stock so it became "Still to come".

From mobile device so predictive text might have struck again
« Last Edit: May 25, 2018, 07:42:23 am by Specmaster »
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Online med6753

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #11180 on: May 25, 2018, 05:11:54 am »


Now for some engineering fun that my mother warned me about. The reason those big black wires are on there is a quality control fail. The board exposure was done badly and had gaps in the ground trace. It likely got all the way through assembly like this and then some poor fucker had to debug it and just jumped the duff traces with bodge wire  :palm:  :palm:  :palm:  :palm:

Other board is in much better state so will just sub that in.

That certainly brings back memories. To 1970 and my first Heathkit. AA-14 Stereo Amp. The circuit board sustained corner damage in shipping and fractured the main ground bus. There was no way this impatient 17 year old was going to wait weeks for a replacement board. Large bodge wire very similar to yours. Luckily that was the only damage and it work fine.  :-+
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Offline tautech

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #11181 on: May 25, 2018, 06:41:04 am »
Well 20 minutes into the D83 and the power supply board is out of the good one and it is in a right state. Genuinely surprised it even powered up. I'm going to swap the entire bottom half of the dead scope into the good one. That has IEC sockets, a board which isn't totalled and some healthier looking parts on it. I've got replacement caps so will re-cap, rebuild the power supply and backplane. Fun fun fun! Will temporarily jump the mains switch to bring the power supply up on its own.

This is quite difficult to work on this one. Everything is soldered individual wires. Fortunately it's "solder by numbers" so easy enough to put back together after.  I'm happy for once. No 10 minute easy fix here!

Some pictures:

Gunky cap vomit, courtesy of another British quality manufacturer (not): ITT.

PCB-eep! This might have survived if it wasn't for the massive bodge wires helping electrolyte puke capillary action.

Now for some engineering fun that my mother warned me about. The reason those big black wires are on there is a quality control fail. The board exposure was done badly and had gaps in the ground trace. It likely got all the way through assembly like this and then some poor fucker had to debug it and just jumped the duff traces with bodge wire  :palm:  :palm:  :palm:  :palm:

Other board is in much better state so will just sub that in.
Interestingly the D83 I had didn't have a mask on the PCB, they were just bare FR4. Really early one I guess.  :-//
IIRC there were bodge wires on mine too and I'm sure I traced them out and found there was no other way to get the connectivity in that layout style. Unless I missed something.  :-// Was a good few years back when I was still fairly green.
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Online mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #11182 on: May 25, 2018, 06:45:44 am »
Well 20 minutes into the D83 and the power supply board is out of the good one and it is in a right state. Genuinely surprised it even powered up. I'm going to swap the entire bottom half of the dead scope into the good one. That has IEC sockets, a board which isn't totalled and some healthier looking parts on it. I've got replacement caps so will re-cap, rebuild the power supply and backplane. Fun fun fun! Will temporarily jump the mains switch to bring the power supply up on its own.
(SNIP)

Other board is in much better state so will just sub that in.

So... forty-something years it worked amazing with that bodge wire from the factory, and NOW it needs to be "fixed"?  :-DD

I've always believed you should love your old iron "warts & all"; besides, you're going to be rebuilding that board anyways, when you decide to have a go at the basket case that came as a side order.  :P

Yes, I get it... you want to make this example as good as it can be; but there's a better than even chance that other mainboard has all sorts of OTHER crap wrong with it not related to the bodge wire or cap vomit.

mnem
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Offline GerryBags

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #11183 on: May 25, 2018, 07:28:18 am »
Thank the stars for dopey Ebay sellers (sometimes)!

My 3455A was sold as not working because it wasn't reading on the resistance ranges (apparently), I have just tested it after first checking the line voltage selectors, and because I remembered to RTFM, the line frequency selector.... which was set to 60 Hz, not 50. I didn't think that on its own would be the issue, but apparently it must have been as once powered up, and self-test run (not even warm) it was telling me a Vishay .01% 110k resistor was 100.009 - 100.010.

Then I had to turn it off because I thought I smelled magic smoke. I opened it up though, and I can't see any signs.... just really clean, gold-plated loveliness. I didn't find any evidence of smoke release, but I did find a dry solder joint on one of the EL caps inside the shield. I gave it a wiggle and you can feel both too much movement and a vary faint click as the joint opens and closes. Bummer.

Does anyone have a hi-res scan of the service manual? Most of the schematics in the one I found are just too low to see component IDs. I've got an original Operating Instructions manual on order, but I'm not sure that has the full schematics in.

Whichever way I cut it, it looks like a real bargain: Best £100 I ever spent  :-+
 

Offline Neomys Sapiens

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #11184 on: May 25, 2018, 07:42:24 am »
German tank maintenance? Do you have a Tiger in your lab you're not telling us about?

I wish I did! I've spent the last ten years making scale models of armour, Tigers included, and I'm a stickler for accuracy. I suppose it's unsurprising that once I got into electronics I'd gravitate to TEA in short order. Weirdly, both Silicon Valley and the British tech industry owe their existence to WW2, so having a handle on the history of that period has helped me get my head around the story of how things have developed since then. My understanding is up to about the early eighties at best, I reckon, I'm trying to give myself a better grounding in the basics before diving into MCU's and more complicated stuff.
My granddad served with a PzInst, first in Africa, later in Russia. So my early youth (when he was still around) was filled with stories about how to salvage a Tiger with three 18ton-halftracks, how the material suffered from the eastern cold and how they improvised vehicles (specially in africa), like scabbing a british PaK onto a salvaged italian tank and so on.
It took a long time for me to come back to armoured vehicles, but when I did, it was in the veritable house of Krauss-Maffei Wegmann. Had a lot of fun and interesting work there. As it is the home of the Leopard2, it was always very funny when you had someone at the telephone and they always were a bit shocked when a driver in the yard opened the throttle a bit. Lovely sound!
 
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Offline Specmaster

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #11185 on: May 25, 2018, 07:46:49 am »
 Are there any Hacker radio fans out there in TEA land? I like to repair and restore radios and Hackers and HMV Diplomats especially and today I couldn't believe my eyes at the price this old Hacker sold for on Ebay today https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HACKER-SUPER-SOVEREIGN-RADIO-MODEL-NO-RP-75-MB-WELL-OVER-40-YEARS-OLD/163052588190?hash=item25f6b10c9e:g:2U4AAOSwkcFa~dc5

Just wish it was one of mine and it sold for that kind of money, could reinvest in some TEA as well then  :-DD
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Offline glarsson

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #11186 on: May 25, 2018, 07:48:23 am »
... it was telling me a Vishay .01% 110k resistor was 100.009 - 100.010.
That's not good. Bad meter or bad typing?
 

Offline Specmaster

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #11187 on: May 25, 2018, 07:54:58 am »
Thank the stars for dopey Ebay sellers (sometimes)!

My 3455A was sold as not working because it wasn't reading on the resistance ranges (apparently), I have just tested it after first checking the line voltage selectors, and because I remembered to RTFM, the line frequency selector.... which was set to 60 Hz, not 50. I didn't think that on its own would be the issue, but apparently it must have been as once powered up, and self-test run (not even warm) it was telling me a Vishay .01% 110k resistor was 100.009 - 100.010.

Then I had to turn it off because I thought I smelled magic smoke. I opened it up though, and I can't see any signs.... just really clean, gold-plated loveliness. I didn't find any evidence of smoke release, but I did find a dry solder joint on one of the EL caps inside the shield. I gave it a wiggle and you can feel both too much movement and a vary faint click as the joint opens and closes. Bummer.

Does anyone have a hi-res scan of the service manual? Most of the schematics in the one I found are just too low to see component IDs. I've got an original Operating Instructions manual on order, but I'm not sure that has the full schematics in.

Whichever way I cut it, it looks like a real bargain: Best £100 I ever spent  :-+
Are you sure of the figures here, 110K .01% should read no more or less then 110.011K or 109.989K your resistor seems to have lost 10K??
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Offline GerryBags

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #11188 on: May 25, 2018, 08:00:27 am »
My granddad served with a PzInst, first in Africa, later in Russia. So my early youth (when he was still around) was filled with stories about how to salvage a Tiger with three 18ton-halftracks, how the material suffered from the eastern cold and how they improvised vehicles (specially in africa), like scabbing a british PaK onto a salvaged italian tank and so on.
It took a long time for me to come back to armoured vehicles, but when I did, it was in the veritable house of Krauss-Maffei Wegmann. Had a lot of fun and interesting work there. As it is the home of the Leopard2, it was always very funny when you had someone at the telephone and they always were a bit shocked when a driver in the yard opened the throttle a bit. Lovely sound!

It was the skill and ingenuity of fellows like your Grandfather, recovering and repairing vehicles thought by the Allies to be destroyed, that led to the Royal engineers going out at the end of a day's action and using as much explosive as they had to hand to blow up any tanks into as small pieces as possible.

I have pictures in one of my books of the recovery of a Tiger with three FAMO's, and somewhere I have one of a Tiger being towed by four because of a missing track, that's a serious amount of metal, and too much for many of the bridges they had to cross in the East. The maintenance and recovery operations always interested me as much as the combat and strategy. They certainly make for interesting models. I sold a really nice kit of the FAMO 18-Ton half-track to buy a 'scope - I only have room for one space hungry hobby ;D

I'd have loved a chance to rifle through your company's archives, I bet there's some model-maker's gold in their filing cabinets!

And yes, 100K... My typing AND screen reading suck, I double tapped the one, not the zero. I also forgot to store the lead resistance and subtract it from the reading. Now I'm off to find which set of Kelvin leads got the recommendation in that recent thread.
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #11189 on: May 25, 2018, 08:09:03 am »
I sold a really nice kit of the FAMO 18-Ton half-track to buy a 'scope - I only have room for one space hungry hobby ;D
YOU SOLD WHAT ?  :scared:

You should've bought a bigger place !  :P

My son  ::) but god bless him, bought a 35hp Fiat crawler for shits and giggles the other day and it spent a couple of weeks getting from one end of NZ to us in the north. Why, well cause he could and has his own decent shed in which to keep it. At only 2 tonne you can shift it on a decent 2 axle trailer.
I'll try and plonk a pic of it here in the next day or so.
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Online bd139

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #11190 on: May 25, 2018, 08:14:21 am »
Are there any Hacker radio fans out there in TEA land? I like to repair and restore radios and Hackers and HMV Diplomats especially and today I couldn't believe my eyes at the price this old Hacker sold for on Ebay today https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HACKER-SUPER-SOVEREIGN-RADIO-MODEL-NO-RP-75-MB-WELL-OVER-40-YEARS-OLD/163052588190?hash=item25f6b10c9e:g:2U4AAOSwkcFa~dc5

Just wish it was one of mine and it sold for that kind of money, could reinvest in some TEA as well then  :-DD

How the fuck did it get that much money.  You can pick up those for twenty quid at BVWS auctions!

Another D83 update. I just spent four hours rebuilding the arse of the scope from scratch.

First I had to separate the entire top half from the bottom half. This took a while, and a metric shit ton of desoldering. I really don't get why most of the power supply is connected to the top chassis with a nice connector. And then some dick decided to rats nest the rest of the wires and the heater connectors for the tube.



Now all the caps were eviscerated and new ones chucked in. The 3-pin ones, a new hole was drilled in the substrate with the Dremel into the ground plane so it took 2 pin snap in caps properly. As you can see here, I used the IEC socket equipped bottom half and jumped it onto the voltage selector.



Turn it on? Well thank fuck I checked as it was set to 220V to start with and look what turned up on the line! 250V selector activated!



In lieu of bring it up slowly on the scariac, I decided that I couldn't be arsed to drag it out so I donned suitable PPE (ear protectors and goggles) and fired it up. No explosions!

-24v rail came up at -24v ... 105V rail came up at 106V .... 24V rail came up at 27V and won't settle back down to 24V. Grr. I shall debug that one another day.

BTW if you want an exercise regime, I do recommend bench pressing Telequipment scopes. Each half of that is about 7Kg and I've been lifting bits of it around all evening. I feel like I could fight off some ninjas now.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2018, 08:16:49 am by bd139 »
 

Offline Specmaster

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #11191 on: May 25, 2018, 08:28:51 am »
They certainly used some heavy gauge metal on that chassis and no mistake, shame that they didn't build the electronics in the same style. 
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Offline tautech

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #11192 on: May 25, 2018, 08:30:19 am »
In lieu of bring it up slowly on the scariac, I decided that I couldn't be arsed to drag it out so I donned suitable PPE (ear protectors and goggles) and fired it up. No explosions!
As these have a linear PSU the good ol' dim bulb tester works fine on them with 100+W bulbs.
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Offline Specmaster

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #11193 on: May 25, 2018, 08:33:57 am »
If its just the power supply on its own that was powered up, I would have thought that a 40W bulb would be best as there wouldn't be any loading on it?
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Offline Neomys Sapiens

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #11194 on: May 25, 2018, 08:36:14 am »

I'd have loved a chance to rifle through your company's archives, I bet there's some model-maker's gold in their filing cabinets!

Which had already been put to good work, as all blind landings of the stairs had a large vitrine showing former and actual products in model form.
But seriously, with all those Spielberger and Jentz titles and lots of coverage given even to the late war prototypes, I would not expect that. Maybe constructive details, but nothing external that isn't covered somewhere. But maybe I'm wrong. I will not find it out, as I have been there for a some projects only.
 
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Online bd139

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #11195 on: May 25, 2018, 04:09:02 pm »
In lieu of bring it up slowly on the scariac, I decided that I couldn't be arsed to drag it out so I donned suitable PPE (ear protectors and goggles) and fired it up. No explosions!
As these have a linear PSU the good ol' dim bulb tester works fine on them with 100+W bulbs.

I really should build one of them. To be honest I’m not sure if you can get incandescent bulbs here. I’m all LED and haven’t bought one for about a decade as EU have rightfully banned them. Not sure that helped as I just leave my LED ones on all the time instead of worrying about the electricity bill  :-DD
 

Online BravoV

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #11196 on: May 25, 2018, 04:54:58 pm »
Any comments or insights for HP 54701A probe ? Especially for those we've experienced using it. TIA

Offline tautech

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #11197 on: May 25, 2018, 05:59:40 pm »
In lieu of bring it up slowly on the scariac, I decided that I couldn't be arsed to drag it out so I donned suitable PPE (ear protectors and goggles) and fired it up. No explosions!
As these have a linear PSU the good ol' dim bulb tester works fine on them with 100+W bulbs.

I really should build one of them. To be honest I’m not sure if you can get incandescent bulbs here.
Of course you can and rightfully so:
https://uk.rs-online.com/web/c/lighting/incandescent-light-bulbs/gls-incandescent-light-bulbs/

This one of mine gives some idea of how you can quickly cobble something together with just stuff you have lying around.

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Online bd139

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #11198 on: May 25, 2018, 06:09:03 pm »
That’s quite a nice bit of reuse that  :-+

Added to project list.
 

Offline Berni

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #11199 on: May 25, 2018, 06:33:49 pm »
Any comments or insights for HP 54701A probe ? Especially for those we've experienced using it. TIA

I have the new version of that probe that works with the Infiniium smart probe interface. I love these probes. They are great for any high speed work with there very low parasitic capacitance. Just keep it away from things with 24V power rails and such in them as the input is supposedly quite fragile

That’s quite a nice bit of reuse that  :-+

Added to project list.

I need to make one too. So far i just use a 1:1 isolation transformer when testing these things. The short circuit current on it is 16A so it does prevent things from going bang in a spectacular way, but its still enugh current to make a good smoke generator if something shorts out. A extra bulb in series would be useful to limit it down in to the miliamps
« Last Edit: May 25, 2018, 06:36:21 pm by Berni »
 


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