Author Topic: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread  (Read 1617932 times)

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Offline Cerebus

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #12600 on: June 30, 2018, 03:43:46 pm »
If you want much  less half-baked reasoning, then read comp.risks. That is low volume, high SNR, and has been going for 30 years.

I'm having one of my "where did the time go?" moments. I used to be a regular contributor to comp.risks (and cypherpunks) when it had been going for a few years, 6 or 7, which seemed long established at the time. Those were the days, you could have open, public discussions on Usenet with luminaries like Whitfield Diffie and Bruce Schneier without getting drowned out by noise. Sigh...

comp.risks is still excellent, and Schneier still contributes. Can't remember when Diffie last contributed. Ross Anderson occasionally contributes.

I'm on occasional drinking terms with Ross and some members of his team(s), I bought Whitfield his first ever pint of Fuller's ESB a few years back and sadly Bruce and I have only been the same room long enough for me to just have time to stop him, shake his hand and introduce myself for the first time about twenty years after we first corresponded.

Anybody got a syringe I can use to squeeze the magic smoke back into this?
 

Offline Cerebus

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #12601 on: June 30, 2018, 03:48:37 pm »
Some of the telcos worked out just not to bill people like that. Giffgaff etc. CDRs are subtractive from a standing amount and that’s it. Want itemised? Forget it. Oh what, millions saved! :)

The analog in the finance sector is commission management. That’s a world of hell. Usually held together with some VB written by a burned out crack addict.

What gets most people is the 700 confusing and mutually contradictory tariffs that they have on the books - which is remarkably similar to individually negotiated commission structures. Also, interconnect pricing and reconciliation, which you only every see from inside the telco.
Anybody got a syringe I can use to squeeze the magic smoke back into this?
 

Offline tggzzz

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #12602 on: June 30, 2018, 03:52:27 pm »
You are so right about telco billing. I just cannot understand why they find it so hard to go from a bunch of CDRs (call detail records) to accurate bills. Back in the day I seriously gave some though to going into the Telco Billing Software business because I knew a dozen people who would bite my hand off to get hold of a decent billing package.

Now do it in (soft) realtime, where the operators get shirty if you truncate the PAYG call 1s late :)
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
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Online bd139

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #12603 on: June 30, 2018, 03:56:31 pm »
Some of the telcos worked out just not to bill people like that. Giffgaff etc. CDRs are subtractive from a standing amount and that’s it. Want itemised? Forget it. Oh what, millions saved! :)

The analog in the finance sector is commission management. That’s a world of hell. Usually held together with some VB written by a burned out crack addict.

What gets most people is the 700 confusing and mutually contradictory tariffs that they have on the books - which is remarkably similar to individually negotiated commission structures. Also, interconnect pricing and reconciliation, which you only every see from inside the telco.

Ugh Id rather solder my eyes shut than deal with that shit.

Always reminds me of Billy Bleach:

https://youtu.be/y6QgHUJIQ5Q
 

Offline tggzzz

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #12604 on: June 30, 2018, 04:23:17 pm »
Some of the telcos worked out just not to bill people like that. Giffgaff etc. CDRs are subtractive from a standing amount and that’s it. Want itemised? Forget it. Oh what, millions saved! :)

The analog in the finance sector is commission management. That’s a world of hell. Usually held together with some VB written by a burned out crack addict.

What gets most people is the 700 confusing and mutually contradictory tariffs that they have on the books - which is remarkably similar to individually negotiated commission structures. Also, interconnect pricing and reconciliation, which you only every see from inside the telco.

I remember looking at the cost of an emergency only first generation phone for my parents, back in the mid 90s. All of the tariffs ended up costing the same per month.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less
 

Online med6753

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #12605 on: June 30, 2018, 04:40:29 pm »
I really have no clue in what you guys are talking about in ref to this security stuff so not sure if I should be dazzled by your brilliance or baffled by the bullshit.   :-//  Just kidding!  :-DD

Anyway, about a year ago I had an unauthorized use of one of my credit cards. It was a card that I hadn't used in probably 4 years and it wasn't even in my physical possession. It was locked in a strong box. The bank flagged it and asked me if I'd used the card in Las Vegas. Nope. Apparently the last time I used it that merchant had been hacked. Within days the charge was removed and a new card issued. I would have discovered it anyway because I ALWAYS check my accounts at least once a week for this very kind of stuff. 
« Last Edit: June 30, 2018, 04:43:54 pm by med6753 »
An old gray beard with an attitude.
 

Online bd139

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #12606 on: June 30, 2018, 04:46:57 pm »
It’s the day job leaking into the escape I think :)

Physical cards are a nightmare. One reason I like Apple Pay. It generates a new card number for every transaction basically. Zero chance of reusing any snatched data right up until the bank. Plus you can’t just grab someone’s handset and use it. The biggest security risks these days are with the merchant and vendor.  Look at ticketmaster recently.
 

Online bitseeker

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #12607 on: June 30, 2018, 05:01:36 pm »
After partially convincing the wife that the extra 9 at the end of the string of 9's is important, and with a 15% ebay coupon I decided to buy it.       

I saw a couple of mentions of this coupon, but I guess it was a short-lived promo as I never saw it. Do update us on the outcome of your DMM score.
I TEA.
 

Online bitseeker

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #12608 on: June 30, 2018, 05:02:56 pm »
I really have no clue in what you guys are talking about in ref to this security stuff so not sure if I should be dazzled by your brilliance or baffled by the bullshit.   :-//  Just kidding!  :-DD

Anyway, about a year ago I had an unauthorized use of one of my credit cards. It was a card that I hadn't used in probably 4 years and it wasn't even in my physical possession. It was locked in a strong box. The bank flagged it and asked me if I'd used the card in Las Vegas. Nope. Apparently the last time I used it that merchant had been hacked. Within days the charge was removed and a new card issued. I would have discovered it anyway because I ALWAYS check my accounts at least once a week for this very kind of stuff.

So many businesses are still in the dark ages when it comes to security. It both shocks and scares me.
I TEA.
 

Offline Specmaster

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #12609 on: June 30, 2018, 05:07:48 pm »
It’s the day job leaking into the escape I think :)

Physical cards are a nightmare. One reason I like Apple Pay. It generates a new card number for every transaction basically. Zero chance of reusing any snatched data right up until the bank. Plus you can’t just grab someone’s handset and use it. The biggest security risks these days are with the merchant and vendor.  Look at ticketmaster recently.
Well I can't even pretend to understand what all security protocol chat is about but your Apple pay has me intrigued, why couldn't I for instance just grab your iphone and use that to pay for something? Its a contactless payment method isn't it?
Who let Murphy in?
 

Online med6753

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #12610 on: June 30, 2018, 05:22:30 pm »
It’s the day job leaking into the escape I think :)

Physical cards are a nightmare. One reason I like Apple Pay. It generates a new card number for every transaction basically. Zero chance of reusing any snatched data right up until the bank. Plus you can’t just grab someone’s handset and use it. The biggest security risks these days are with the merchant and vendor.  Look at ticketmaster recently.
Well I can't even pretend to understand what all security protocol chat is about but your Apple pay has me intrigued, why couldn't I for instance just grab your iphone and use that to pay for something? Its a contactless payment method isn't it?

I will never drink the apple juice....out of principle. In 1984 Apple trashed my employer with this commercial:



They have become 100x worse than IBM ever was. All those drones sitting there are the same drones lined up outside an Apple store for the privilege to buy a $900 I phone. You gotta be freaking crazy.


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Online bd139

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #12611 on: June 30, 2018, 05:35:49 pm »
It’s the day job leaking into the escape I think :)

Physical cards are a nightmare. One reason I like Apple Pay. It generates a new card number for every transaction basically. Zero chance of reusing any snatched data right up until the bank. Plus you can’t just grab someone’s handset and use it. The biggest security risks these days are with the merchant and vendor.  Look at ticketmaster recently.
Well I can't even pretend to understand what all security protocol chat is about but your Apple pay has me intrigued, why couldn't I for instance just grab your iphone and use that to pay for something? Its a contactless payment method isn't it?

You’d have to steal fingers too and more recently the user’s head and their fingers. Plus five quick presses of the power button and it’ll lock up solid and shoot the encryption session in the Secure Enclave. Then you have to enter the 6 digit pin. Plus it’s a credit card anyway so you just charge back any stolen shit.

It’s the day job leaking into the escape I think :)

Physical cards are a nightmare. One reason I like Apple Pay. It generates a new card number for every transaction basically. Zero chance of reusing any snatched data right up until the bank. Plus you can’t just grab someone’s handset and use it. The biggest security risks these days are with the merchant and vendor.  Look at ticketmaster recently.
Well I can't even pretend to understand what all security protocol chat is about but your Apple pay has me intrigued, why couldn't I for instance just grab your iphone and use that to pay for something? Its a contactless payment method isn't it?

I will never drink the apple juice....out of principle. In 1984 Apple trashed my employer with this commercial:



They have become 100x worse than IBM ever was. All those drones sitting there are the same drones lined up outside an Apple store for the privilege to buy a $900 I phone. You gotta be freaking crazy.

AKA $25/month phone. Didn’t queue. Sat on butt and DPD chucked it over the back fence  :-//

TBH Apple were a joke until they landed with OSX and iOS etc. Totally different beast.

Edit: also trashing IBM has always been fun. Until they actually started doing it to themselves with Watson.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2018, 05:38:21 pm by bd139 »
 

Online mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #12612 on: June 30, 2018, 05:44:20 pm »
A quick heads up: Anybody in the UK who has been getting Metcal envy the last day or two, https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/oki-metcal-ps-900-soldering-iron-stand/173387210284 - used PS900 outfit, £100 buy it now.

And a MX500P complete with stand and several  tips; bidding at £142 right now: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/283028459738


mnem
*Back out into the suck*
 

Offline Specmaster

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #12613 on: June 30, 2018, 05:45:21 pm »
It’s the day job leaking into the escape I think :)

Physical cards are a nightmare. One reason I like Apple Pay. It generates a new card number for every transaction basically. Zero chance of reusing any snatched data right up until the bank. Plus you can’t just grab someone’s handset and use it. The biggest security risks these days are with the merchant and vendor.  Look at ticketmaster recently.
Well I can't even pretend to understand what all security protocol chat is about but your Apple pay has me intrigued, why couldn't I for instance just grab your iphone and use that to pay for something? Its a contactless payment method isn't it?

You’d have to steal fingers too and more recently the user’s head and their fingers. Plus five quick presses of the power button and it’ll lock up solid and shoot the encryption session in the Secure Enclave. Then you have to enter the 6 digit pin. Plus it’s a credit card anyway so you just charge back any stolen shit.

Not insurmountable  :popcorn:

Who let Murphy in?
 

Offline Specmaster

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #12614 on: June 30, 2018, 05:48:03 pm »
A quick heads up: Anybody in the UK who has been getting Metcal envy the last day or two, https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/oki-metcal-ps-900-soldering-iron-stand/173387210284 - used PS900 outfit, £100 buy it now.

And a MX500P complete with stand and several  tips; bidding at £142 right now: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/283028459738


mnem
*Back out into the suck*
That says that the tips need re-activating, activater will be included, WTF is that all about, security going to far now??
Who let Murphy in?
 

Online bd139

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #12615 on: June 30, 2018, 05:51:52 pm »
It’s the day job leaking into the escape I think :)

Physical cards are a nightmare. One reason I like Apple Pay. It generates a new card number for every transaction basically. Zero chance of reusing any snatched data right up until the bank. Plus you can’t just grab someone’s handset and use it. The biggest security risks these days are with the merchant and vendor.  Look at ticketmaster recently.
Well I can't even pretend to understand what all security protocol chat is about but your Apple pay has me intrigued, why couldn't I for instance just grab your iphone and use that to pay for something? Its a contactless payment method isn't it?

You’d have to steal fingers too and more recently the user’s head and their fingers. Plus five quick presses of the power button and it’ll lock up solid and shoot the encryption session in the Secure Enclave. Then you have to enter the 6 digit pin. Plus it’s a credit card anyway so you just charge back any stolen shit.

Not insurmountable  :popcorn:



Yeah but no less insurmountable than chip and pin :)
 

Offline Specmaster

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #12616 on: June 30, 2018, 05:56:03 pm »
Truth is, no security system is secure for long before a work around is found. >:D
Who let Murphy in?
 

Online bd139

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #12617 on: June 30, 2018, 05:57:40 pm »
Truth is, no security system is secure for long before a work around is found. >:D

Which is why some people get paid to play cat and mouse eternally. How can you lose?
 

Online mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #12618 on: June 30, 2018, 06:00:03 pm »
It’s the day job leaking into the escape I think :)

Physical cards are a nightmare. One reason I like Apple Pay. It generates a new card number for every transaction basically. Zero chance of reusing any snatched data right up until the bank. Plus you can’t just grab someone’s handset and use it. The biggest security risks these days are with the merchant and vendor.  Look at ticketmaster recently.
Well I can't even pretend to understand what all security protocol chat is about but your Apple pay has me intrigued, why couldn't I for instance just grab your iphone and use that to pay for something? Its a contactless payment method isn't it?

I will never drink the apple juice....out of principle. In 1984 Apple trashed my employer with this commercial:

*MacIntosh Ad*

They have become 100x worse than IBM ever was. All those drones sitting there are the same drones lined up outside an Apple store for the privilege to buy a $900 I phone. You gotta be freaking crazy.

You're thinking too small; thinking like an ordinary person with bills and a limited amount of money.

What Apple is selling is convenience and TIME; time YOU don't spend figuring it out, time you don't spend fixing it if it breaks, time you don't spend arguing with customer support. All you have to do is fit your needs within the confines of their ecology, and give them boatloads of money. In return, they constantly revise their ecology to fit more and more of the people with money, so eventually you will get more and more functionality from them.

Honestly, it's not that bad a deal, unless you are one of those people who just HAS to do it for yourself; then you're well and truly boned.


mnem
Time is your most valuable commodity; the one thing you can't make or buy more of. Trading mere money for more time is a deal that's ALWAYS in YOUR favor.
 

Online bd139

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #12619 on: June 30, 2018, 06:03:58 pm »
That’s exactly it. I run my business and my life off it. It is necessary that it just works.

Incidentally I did do it myself for a long time with cheap android handsets but a couple of critical failures left me in dire shit and lost me a wedge of cash. Can’t afford that downtime.

Incidentally I’ve got a duff pixel in my 6s. They are swapping for a new handset via post. They deliver the new handset to me then I return the old one in pre paid box. Can’t beat that.

Keeping it TEA if I was running a business I wouldn’t poke rigol with a stick. Keysight it is because at 3x the cost it’s still a good deal for the service.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2018, 06:07:20 pm by bd139 »
 

Online mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #12620 on: June 30, 2018, 06:08:54 pm »
A quick heads up: Anybody in the UK who has been getting Metcal envy the last day or two, https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/oki-metcal-ps-900-soldering-iron-stand/173387210284 - used PS900 outfit, £100 buy it now.

And a MX500P complete with stand and several  tips; bidding at £142 right now: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/283028459738


mnem
*Back out into the suck*
That says that the tips need re-activating, activater will be included, WTF is that all about, security going to far now??



99% positive it's this stuff; the outer shell of the MX tips is iron, just like any other. This stuff will "re-activate" a dog turd so it's nice & shiny silver, if you can get it hot enough.  :-DD


mnem
p00t!
 

Online mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #12621 on: June 30, 2018, 06:18:32 pm »
You're thinking too small; thinking like an ordinary person with bills and a limited amount of money.

What Apple is selling is convenience and TIME; time YOU don't spend figuring it out, time you don't spend fixing it if it breaks, time you don't spend arguing with customer support. All you have to do is fit your needs within the confines of their ecology, and give them boatloads of money. In return, they constantly revise their ecology to fit more and more of the people with money, so eventually you will get more and more functionality from them.

Honestly, it's not that bad a deal, unless you are one of those people who just HAS to do it for yourself; then you're well and truly boned.


mnem
Time is your most valuable commodity; the one thing you can't make or buy more of. Trading mere money for more time is a deal that's ALWAYS in YOUR favor.
That’s exactly it. I run my business and my life off it. It is necessary that it just works.

Incidentally I did do it myself for a long time with cheap android handsets but a couple of critical failures left me in dire shit and lost me a wedge of cash. Can’t afford that downtime.

Incidentally I’ve got a duff pixel in my 6s. They are swapping for a new handset via post. They deliver the new handset to me then I return the old one in pre paid box. Can’t beat that.

Keeping it TEA if I was running a business I wouldn’t poke rigol with a stick. Keysight it is because at 3x the cost it’s still a good deal for the service.

Yup, and if you didn't want to do it yourself, you could take it to the Apple Store, go do a little leisurely shopping, and when you come back, they'd have every last microt of your old/busted backed up to the cloud, then restored to your new/shiny.

THAT is what fApple is selling. If I could spare the cash, I wouldn't be futzing around rebuilding my Android phone either; it's just that right now, the only iPwns with a usable size screen (5.5 in or larger for me) are still ridiculously expensive, even refurb. Their real market is a couple tax brackets above me; that's what makes them the "aspirational brand".

My grandmother told me so many times, but I never listened:

"You want to make A LIVING, sell what people NEED. You want to make MONEY, sell what people WANT."

mnem
My reality check bounced.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2018, 06:24:39 pm by mnementh »
 

Online BillB

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #12622 on: June 30, 2018, 06:23:20 pm »
After partially convincing the wife that the extra 9 at the end of the string of 9's is important, and with a 15% ebay coupon I decided to buy it.       

I saw a couple of mentions of this coupon, but I guess it was a short-lived promo as I never saw it. Do update us on the outcome of your DMM score.

Will do. 

This coupon was just for a day. I'm glad that it escaped some; less competition!  ;D  Usually, a coupon comes around and my watched items are all gone by the time I get around to them.     
 

Offline tggzzz

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #12623 on: June 30, 2018, 06:52:44 pm »
It’s the day job leaking into the escape I think :)

Physical cards are a nightmare. One reason I like Apple Pay. It generates a new card number for every transaction basically. Zero chance of reusing any snatched data right up until the bank. Plus you can’t just grab someone’s handset and use it. The biggest security risks these days are with the merchant and vendor.  Look at ticketmaster recently.
Well I can't even pretend to understand what all security protocol chat is about but your Apple pay has me intrigued, why couldn't I for instance just grab your iphone and use that to pay for something? Its a contactless payment method isn't it?

You’d have to steal fingers too and more recently the user’s head and their fingers. Plus five quick presses of the power button and it’ll lock up solid and shoot the encryption session in the Secure Enclave. Then you have to enter the 6 digit pin. Plus it’s a credit card anyway so you just charge back any stolen shit.

Biometrics? Run away, as fast as you can!

Even if they worked well with few false positives/negatives, they have a killer weakness: certificate revocation.

If my credit card gets compromised by a company I didn't know existed, I ring up the company, they revoke the certificate (the card number/date/cvv), and they issue another set of magic numbers pressed into plastic.

With biometrics the magic number is my iris pattern etc. When, not if, some scrotty company in the middle of nowhere has a bad employee that makes money on the side by flogging the magic numbers, just how are new magic numbers going to be issued? I.e. certificate revocation == iris revocation, which isn't acceptable to me.

There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less
 

Offline tggzzz

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #12624 on: June 30, 2018, 06:57:09 pm »
Keeping it TEA if I was running a business I wouldn’t poke rigol with a stick. Keysight it is because at 3x the cost it’s still a good deal for the service.

I'm glad that's still the attitude.

In my first job we had a HeaP flatbed plotters (remember them?). Twice it failed just before an exhibition. Twice HP saved the day by loaning one to us.

Mind you, you could always have 3* the number of Rigols, so that when one breaks, you just slide it into the oubliette.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less
 


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