Author Topic: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread  (Read 1808218 times)

xrunner, Neomys Sapiens, mnementh, med6753, hoglet, Neonuros, jjoonathan, wch, exor and 18 Guests are viewing this topic.

Online Neomys Sapiens

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1207
  • Country: de
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #12750 on: July 03, 2018, 10:04:25 pm »
I hope that the TEAparty is well and going, as I am not.
I suffered total and sudden computer failure on the Internet-capable part of my IT.
Meh.
Took Laptop from work home to take care of the most urgent stuff.
See you (and your new gear, i hope) soon. New stuff under way. I HATE SETTING UP PCs!
 

Online bd139

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 11557
  • Country: gb
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #12751 on: July 03, 2018, 10:08:10 pm »
Gah so do I. I wouldn’t wish it on anyone.

You can have a load of fun with a photodiode, opamp and a DS1054Z. I built a simple photodiode amp with a LM358 and BPV11.  Record the power button waveform and load it into the DDS (DG1022Z) then play it back through a 2n7000 and IR LED pointed at the TV slyly with a simple trigger set up wired to a push button with a pull up.

Kids playing up, first warning, second warning clicked fingers and TV goes off.

They nearly fell off the couch in surprise, especially the one holding the remote control.

iPhone camera is no good for this as it has an IR filter on it.

Or https://www.tvbgone.com

That was the inspiration.  And to play with replay as i was pissing around with a yubikey’s innards :)
 

Online med6753

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4008
  • Country: us
  • Tek nut
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #12752 on: July 03, 2018, 10:11:23 pm »
Tek didn’t put a lot of thought into fixing it once it was built.

Tek was ahead of their time. Most things these days aren't designed to even last, let alone be fixed. Fortunately, not everything is crap, but so much certainly is. :palm:


If you're implying that Tek designed the 465 or any other equipment to be "unserviceable" or "throw away" I disagree with that statement. Yes, it's DIFFICULT to service but certainly not unserviceable. If it was would they provide extensive service info plus exhaustive parts lists including even the minor nut and screw? I think not. Now could they have made the 465 more modular and easier to service? Sure, but it would have added cost to an already expensive instrument. So there were trade offs and some serviceability lost out.

And think about this. The copyright date on this vertical board is 1971. Which says the Tek engineers were busy bees designing the 465 in the late 1960's. One Tek engineer had the foresight to specify gold plated contacts in the attenuator deck. Gold doesn't tarnish. But could that engineer have anticipated that in 2018, nearly 50 years later, someone would have to get in there to clean 50 years of accumulated dirt/oil/grease off those tarnish free contacts? I kinda doubt it.   
« Last Edit: July 03, 2018, 10:14:34 pm by med6753 »
An old gray beard with an attitude.
 

Online bd139

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 11557
  • Country: gb
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #12753 on: July 03, 2018, 10:15:55 pm »
It was designed with wanton disregard for the next guy after the assembly line. It was however designed with the best parts just in the wrong places.

If you ever have to get the HT inverter you will know what I mean :)

The thing is there’s a reliability Bell Curve. A few units failed rapidly and were repaired at cost and chucked back, most failed a long time ago and were chucked in a skip.  What we have is a collection of scopes on the market from which most of the crap has been filtered out.

Perhaps 70% of the normal lifecycle failure risks were outward facing by design but the remaining parts are difficult to get to. Problem is we’re well outside the normal lifecycle now.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2018, 10:17:38 pm by bd139 »
 

Online med6753

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4008
  • Country: us
  • Tek nut
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #12754 on: July 03, 2018, 10:23:20 pm »
It was designed with wanton disregard for the next guy after the assembly line. It was however designed with the best parts just in the wrong places.

If you ever have to get the HT inverter you will know what I mean :)

The thing is there’s a reliability Bell Curve. A few units failed rapidly and were repaired at cost and chucked back, most failed a long time ago and were chucked in a skip.  What we have is a collection of scopes on the market from which most of the crap has been filtered out.

Perhaps 70% of the normal lifecycle failure risks were outward facing by design but the remaining parts are difficult to get to. Problem is we’re well outside the normal lifecycle now.

Yep, I'm that next guy and I'm paying for it. I got the switch board removed and switch deck clear and cleaned all the contacts. The switch board and vertical board are reassembled. Tomorrow I'll reinstall the vertical board and apply power and keep my fingers crossed.

Edit...yes....It is WAY beyond it's normal life cycle. But so am I and I'm still kicking.  :-DD :-DD :-+
« Last Edit: July 03, 2018, 10:25:19 pm by med6753 »
An old gray beard with an attitude.
 

Offline Specmaster

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7416
  • Country: gb
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #12755 on: July 03, 2018, 10:24:57 pm »
Older style of equipment was not designed to be unserviceable, but because the designers probably could comprehend that their latest piece of artistry would ever fail, they gave the serviceability scant regard, in just the same way as car designers do when it comes down to being able to gain easy access to parts. If however they also had to do any repair work on their designs, then their next creation would have more serviceability (access) built in to them.
Who let Murphy in?
 

Online bd139

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 11557
  • Country: gb
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #12756 on: July 03, 2018, 10:29:16 pm »
Very true.

Some of the stuff we have now is pretty good. That TF930 for example. Really nice piece of engineering. And that got there after 30 years of learning from questionable designs :)

Ergo the amount of leaked batteries I have seen in Thurlby kit over the years which ate the boards. And the iffy as fuck wiring in the early PL supplies.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2018, 10:30:49 pm by bd139 »
 

Offline bitseeker

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7887
  • Country: us
  • Lots of engineer-tweakable parts inside!
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #12757 on: July 04, 2018, 12:23:48 am »
Yeah, sometimes you run into well-designed-for-servicing equipment and can really appreciate it. Thing of beauty, etc. :-+
I TEA.
 

Online mnementh

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4859
  • Country: us
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #12758 on: July 04, 2018, 03:54:15 am »
That's really neat, mnem! I think I have the electronics from an old floor-standing fan I scrapped some time ago. I believe it was IR controlled. So, I might have a chance of making something similar.

BTW, to do go/no-go checks of IR remotes, I usually use my phone's camera to see if the IR LED blinks.

None of the phones I've had in the last couple years will do it. Besides, it's nice to be able to decode and record the pulses.  >:D My current phone DOES have an IR emitter and app built-in tho. I like it greatly.   ;D

You can have a load of fun with a photodiode, opamp and a DS1054Z. I built a simple photodiode amp with a LM358 and BPV11.  Record the power button waveform and load it into the DDS (DG1022Z) then play it back through a 2n7000 and IR LED pointed at the TV slyly with a simple trigger set up wired to a push button with a pull up.

Kids playing up, first warning, second warning clicked fingers and TV goes off.

They nearly fell off the couch in surprise, especially the one holding the remote control.

iPhone camera is no good for this as it has an IR filter on it.
Samsung phones work a treat as an IR detector, I often use mine for that purpose, another score for Android in the TE arena.

Good to see England in the QFs after all this time, let's hope we continue the momentum and bring it home again.

From mobile device so predictive text might have struck again [emoji83]



You can record the pulses to a line input on your sound card, and play them back the same way from a IR LED connected to an audio amp from an old desktop speaker. Takes a little fiddling with a 1-10K pot to get unclipped pulses at record & playback, but you can use the same gain control cable for in & out. Very portable on a laptop with one of those cheap USB sound cards so as to not take a chance on frying your built-in sound.


I might have an old SamSuck smartphone in the back of my desk, now that you mention it...


mnem
*Toddling off to ded*
 

Online mtdoc

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3579
  • Country: us
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #12759 on: July 04, 2018, 04:12:37 am »
iPhone camera is no good for this as it has an IR filter on it.

FWIW, the rear facing selfie camera will work - it has no IR filter. At least on the older iPhones, not sure about the newest ones.


Quote from: tggzzz
Or https://www.tvbgone.com

TVbgones are great fun. I met the creator, Mitch Altman several years ago on a business trip to San Francisco when I had an evening to kill and went to the Noisebridge Hacker Space.  He was doing a soldering class which I signed up for fun and ended up helping teach several of the students. We built TVbgones and I had great fun afterwards walking down Market Street turning off window display TVs.  I'm going to have to dig it out and use it on my kids.. >:D
« Last Edit: July 04, 2018, 04:20:03 am by mtdoc »
 

Offline bitseeker

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7887
  • Country: us
  • Lots of engineer-tweakable parts inside!
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #12760 on: July 04, 2018, 04:47:00 am »
That's really neat, mnem! I think I have the electronics from an old floor-standing fan I scrapped some time ago. I believe it was IR controlled. So, I might have a chance of making something similar.

BTW, to do go/no-go checks of IR remotes, I usually use my phone's camera to see if the IR LED blinks.

None of the phones I've had in the last couple years will do it. Besides, it's nice to be able to decode and record the pulses.  >:D My current phone DOES have an IR emitter and app built-in tho. I like it greatly.   ;D

Yeah, getting the pulses on the scope screen is very cool. It was that screenshot that piqued my interest.
I TEA.
 

Online med6753

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4008
  • Country: us
  • Tek nut
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #12761 on: July 04, 2018, 07:08:27 pm »
 :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD
An old gray beard with an attitude.
 
The following users thanked this post: nixiefreqq

Offline Specmaster

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7416
  • Country: gb
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #12762 on: July 04, 2018, 07:13:52 pm »
Is that a new American holiday then? :-DD :-DD :-DD
Who let Murphy in?
 

Online PA0PBZ

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4082
  • Country: nl
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #12763 on: July 04, 2018, 07:25:13 pm »
Treason day

The 4th of July when American's celebrate their ancestors betrayal of their rightful King because they didn't want to pay tax to fund the Royal Navy.
They also celebrate having the world's largest military for which they pay large amounts of tax.
Keyboard error: Press F1 to continue.
 
The following users thanked this post: djos

Offline Specmaster

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7416
  • Country: gb
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #12764 on: July 04, 2018, 07:38:09 pm »
Independence Day then  :popcorn:

Poor George III could never have known just how big and powerful USA was to become on the world stage. :-DD
« Last Edit: July 04, 2018, 07:44:45 pm by Specmaster »
Who let Murphy in?
 

Online med6753

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4008
  • Country: us
  • Tek nut
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #12765 on: July 04, 2018, 08:48:50 pm »
Hey, we preferred coffee. Your tea sucked and was too expensive so we threw it in the harbor (harbour). What more can I say?  :-DD :-DD

Ebay package. After making several stops in New England it back tracked up to Latham, NY (Just north of Albany) then finally got to my local UPS depot in Kingston. Delivery Thursday. UPS typically delivers mid-day here but I suspect with the holiday and additional load it probably won't be until late afternoon. So I guess the big reveal will be Friday morning.

 
An old gray beard with an attitude.
 

Offline Cerebus

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3396
  • Country: gb
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #12766 on: July 04, 2018, 10:23:09 pm »
Quiet in 'ere today innit?

Geoff been in?
Anybody got a syringe I can use to squeeze the magic smoke back into this?
 

Offline Specmaster

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7416
  • Country: gb
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #12767 on: July 05, 2018, 01:07:13 am »
Ebay is also very quiet, where has all the good stuff gone?
Who let Murphy in?
 

Online mnementh

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4859
  • Country: us
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #12768 on: July 05, 2018, 02:24:36 am »
Treason day

The 4th of July when American's celebrate their ancestors betrayal of their rightful King because they didn't want to pay tax to fund the Royal Navy.
They also celebrate having the world's largest military for which they pay large amounts of tax.

No, not the Royal Navy (Even though the merchant marine of the time sometimes thought of themselves that way) those taxes taxes went directly to shore up the East India Tea Company, who also had exclusive rights to all tea sales in the colonies. The colonies were the victims of a particularly pernicious monarchy-mandated circle-jerk without having a seat at the table, which is what eventually resulted in all that unpleasantness in the Boston Harbor back then.

As with all matters of import (or matters of taxation and export), if you want to know what really happened and why, FOLLOW. THE. MONEY.


As for this bloated military which directly or indirectly accounts for more than 50% or our national budget and 90% of our massive national debt, I have no answers. I've been fighting this lunacy since I was 12; Cassandra got nuthin' on me.   :palm:

Eisenhauer warned us; Orwell warned us. Instead of moving to prevent these horrors from repeating on American soil, the powers that be treated Ike's exit speech and 1984 as a blueprint for their new world order.


mnem
https://youtu.be/OyBNmecVtdU

https://www.npr.org/2011/01/17/132942244/

"Good luck, and may your god go with you."
 
The following users thanked this post: mtdoc

Offline bitseeker

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7887
  • Country: us
  • Lots of engineer-tweakable parts inside!
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #12769 on: July 05, 2018, 02:44:13 am »
Ebay is also very quiet, where has all the good stuff gone?

I guess it's eBay Independence Day. We're TEA-free! :-DD
I TEA.
 

Offline Cerebus

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3396
  • Country: gb
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #12770 on: July 05, 2018, 12:58:46 pm »
No, not the Royal Navy (Even though the merchant marine of the time sometimes thought of themselves that way) those taxes taxes went directly to shore up the East India Tea Company, who also had exclusive rights to all tea sales in the colonies. The colonies were the victims of a particularly pernicious monarchy-mandated circle-jerk without having a seat at the table, which is what eventually resulted in all that unpleasantness in the Boston Harbor back then.

As with all matters of import (or matters of taxation and export), if you want to know what really happened and why, FOLLOW. THE. MONEY.

It's funny how countries schools never teach their children the inglorious parts of their history. In British schools we're told lots of good things about ourselves but not about the grossest parts of our history. So, Winston Churchill is a hero, not the man who ordered the massive use of chemical weapons against Russian revolutionaries in Emtsa in August 1919, or their use against Iraqi Kurds in the early 1920's. The huge war crime of the fire bombing of the civilian population of Dresden by the RAF got no mention in my history lessons. I've never know a Briton who knew about these things from school history lessons.

Similarly I've never know an American who knew the fully story of the prelude to the US Revolution from what they had been taught in school. In US schools, little or no mention is made of the Royal Proclamation of 1763 which established a line down the Appalachians which was supposed to be the limit of British settlement in North America, leaving the area to the west of the Proclamation Line for the Native Americans (and Spanish territory from the west coast inland). European scholars conclude that it was objections to this restriction that ultimately sparked the American Revolution ten years later, not a principled stand against "No taxation without representation". American scholars, for some reason, take the exact opposite position. On the "follow the money" principle, which is more likely a motivator, skipping a bit of tax*, or a massive land grab for the purposes of property speculation.

* 18th century taxes were generally negligible compared to modern levels of taxation and the tax on tea, a highly taxed luxury good, was 3d a pound versus a price of 24d a pound including tax (12.5% gross, 14.28% net). There was no Income Tax in Britain until 1798, when it was at the staggering level of 0.83% for income over £60 a year (£7140 present value).
Anybody got a syringe I can use to squeeze the magic smoke back into this?
 

Online med6753

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4008
  • Country: us
  • Tek nut
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #12771 on: July 05, 2018, 02:54:35 pm »
Sometimes you have to accept defeat. I just spent hours putting the vertical board back into the 465 and the result is the scope is in worse shape than when I started. Channel 1 trace but no response to any input. Channel 2 no trace at all. I checked and double checked all connections and they're OK. I'm in no mood at this point to try to toubleshoot this mess. But I'm not scrapping it, although tempted. I'm putting it away and I'll come back to it another day. It's rare that I can't fix a piece of equipment but this 465 is kicking my butt. So to avoid doing something stupid it will be put away...for now.
An old gray beard with an attitude.
 

Offline Cubdriver

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 2363
  • Country: us
  • Nixie addict
    • Photos of electronic gear
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #12772 on: July 05, 2018, 03:50:09 pm »
Sometimes you have to accept defeat. I just spent hours putting the vertical board back into the 465 and the result is the scope is in worse shape than when I started. Channel 1 trace but no response to any input. Channel 2 no trace at all. I checked and double checked all connections and they're OK. I'm in no mood at this point to try to toubleshoot this mess. But I'm not scrapping it, although tempted. I'm putting it away and I'll come back to it another day. It's rare that I can't fix a piece of equipment but this 465 is kicking my butt. So to avoid doing something stupid it will be put away...for now.

Sounds like a wise choice.  Best to walk away for a time and eventually return with renewed patience and a fresh outlook.  It reduces the potentially strong temptation to break out the Widlarizer to make gross adjustments to recalcitrant gear that often arises in situations like this.

-Pat
If it jams, force it.  If it breaks, you needed a new one anyway...
 

Offline Cerebus

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3396
  • Country: gb
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #12773 on: July 05, 2018, 04:03:12 pm »
Indeed, we all have days like that. Leave it "on the healing bench" for a bit and come back to it when you're completely fresh to it, a couple of weeks or so, and who knows, you might meantime have the solution to whatever you did wrong filter up from your deep mind (or in my case, from the pit of depravity).
Anybody got a syringe I can use to squeeze the magic smoke back into this?
 

Offline nixiefreqq

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 383
  • Country: us
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #12774 on: July 05, 2018, 04:10:07 pm »
Sometimes you have to accept defeat. I just spent hours putting the vertical board back into the 465 and the result is the scope is in worse shape than when I started. Channel 1 trace but no response to any input. Channel 2 no trace at all. I checked and double checked all connections and they're OK. I'm in no mood at this point to try to toubleshoot this mess. But I'm not scrapping it, although tempted. I'm putting it away and I'll come back to it another day. It's rare that I can't fix a piece of equipment but this 465 is kicking my butt. So to avoid doing something stupid it will be put away...for now.


hate to say this.......and you will probably curse my eyes for suggesting it......BUT.....maybe you should consider getting a second 465 for module swapping and signal cross checking. 

two of everything is almost a TEA minimum.

ok,  now you can hunt me down and kill me like a dog.


« Last Edit: July 05, 2018, 04:12:25 pm by nixiefreqq »
"free range primate"
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf