Author Topic: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread  (Read 2879306 times)

mftaylor, exor, mnementh, EV, 0culus, KentF, tonyalbus, JamesH, orin, Messtechniker and 18 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Kosmic

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1348
  • Country: ca
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #23025 on: January 18, 2019, 03:47:36 pm »
Part of looking at the Tweezers I have on the bench will be using it to test them across a range and at different frequencies but in this case the of one set of tweezers are down to 0.2% accuracy depending on range so they become as much about testing the box as being tested. But as they claim to have been tested/calibrated prior to shipping a good chance to see if the HP is still somewhere within spec. I will also be setting up a couple of sanity checks with the Sig Gen and DSO. Maybe I should have brought your Caps  ;D

Just Ordered bunch of 0.5% caps  ;D I should be able to lower uncertainty a little bit on the PM6303.
 

Offline Specmaster

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 9189
  • Country: gb
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #23026 on: January 18, 2019, 04:04:34 pm »
Part of looking at the Tweezers I have on the bench will be using it to test them across a range and at different frequencies but in this case the of one set of tweezers are down to 0.2% accuracy depending on range so they become as much about testing the box as being tested. But as they claim to have been tested/calibrated prior to shipping a good chance to see if the HP is still somewhere within spec. I will also be setting up a couple of sanity checks with the Sig Gen and DSO. Maybe I should have brought your Caps  ;D

Just Ordered bunch of 0.5% caps  ;D I should be able to lower uncertainty a little bit on the PM6303.
Did you swap the databackup battery OK? If you did without having to do a recal then I'd be very surprised if it wasn't in spec.
Who let Murphy in?

Brymen-Fluke-Solartron-HP-Thurlby-Heathkit-Thander-Tek-Extech-Black Star-GW-Advance-Avo
 

Online mnementh

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7284
  • Country: ca
  • *Escaping The Suck*
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #23027 on: January 18, 2019, 04:09:05 pm »
Just Ordered bunch of 0.5% caps  ;D I should be able to lower uncertainty a little bit on the PM6303.

Yeah, until you discover that the measurement methodology used by the manufacturer differs materially in some several different ways from that used by your meter... If you can even figure out the details at all.

What was that about "uncertainty"?   :-DD

mnem
Confidence is high... that certainty will be low.  ;)
« Last Edit: January 18, 2019, 04:12:42 pm by mnementh »
 

Online mnementh

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7284
  • Country: ca
  • *Escaping The Suck*
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #23028 on: January 18, 2019, 04:16:38 pm »
Sitting in the waiting room at my dentist; still waiting 15 minutes after my appointment time.

Now THAT is some hardcore uncertainty. 🤣

mnem
*wibble*
 

Offline Kosmic

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1348
  • Country: ca
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #23029 on: January 18, 2019, 04:29:54 pm »
Did you swap the databackup battery OK? If you did without having to do a recal then I'd be very surprised if it wasn't in spec.

There is no battery and ram in there. Also no real calibration procedure. The only thing you can do is adjusting the +-15V rail and zero the capacitance (usefull depending of the cable / connectors you use).
 

Offline Kosmic

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1348
  • Country: ca
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #23030 on: January 18, 2019, 04:32:11 pm »
Yeah, until you discover that the measurement methodology used by the manufacturer differs materially in some several different ways from that used by your meter... If you can even figure out the details at all.

What was that about "uncertainty"?   :-DD

mnem
Confidence is high... that certainty will be low.  ;)

Yeah well I just want to make sure it's not totally off. Not much interested in capacitance metrology  :)
 

Online mnementh

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7284
  • Country: ca
  • *Escaping The Suck*
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #23031 on: January 18, 2019, 04:36:05 pm »
Yet.  :-DD

mnem
This is TEAnonymous, after all.
 

Offline bd139

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 14644
  • Country: gb
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #23032 on: January 18, 2019, 04:37:51 pm »
Good news UK eBay lurkers. £1 listing weekend from Friday to Monday. That should clean up the test gear drought!
 

Online mnementh

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7284
  • Country: ca
  • *Escaping The Suck*
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #23033 on: January 18, 2019, 05:59:41 pm »
Survived the trip to the dentist, so I decided to treat myself to Subway. Got home in one piece, so blood loss, dehydration and local anaesthesia didn't dull my wits too badly.

Get my sandwich and tea, sit down... and the sandwich tastes like grapefruit, and tea tastes like some indeterminate fruit juice.

Evidently, after a little Guugling, this is because different areas of your tongue sense different types of flavor, and half the tastebuds on my tongue are numb. Interesting how something so simple completely changes the texture of your personal reality.

mnem
Food for thought; thought from food.
 

Offline med6753

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5795
  • Country: us
  • Tek nut
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #23034 on: January 18, 2019, 06:20:35 pm »
Started building up the 190mV, 1.9V, 19V reference with the precision parts. Once it's done it will be my "standard" for calibrating the 3.5 and 4.5 digit DMM's.

Here's the 19V reference built and adjusted.


After .5 hours. Absolutely stable.


The 1.9V reference built and adjusted.


And after .5 hours. Again, absolutely stable.


I did make some changes to the schematic that I originally published and I will post it again once I built up and test the 190mV reference which will be sometime tomorrow.

 
An old gray beard with an attitude.
 
The following users thanked this post: beanflying

Offline tggzzz

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 11416
  • Country: gb
    • Having fun doing more, with less
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #23035 on: January 18, 2019, 06:21:45 pm »
Evidently, after a little Guugling, this is because different areas of your tongue sense different types of flavor,

Not true, to any useful extent.

Quote
and half the tastebuds on my tongue are numb.

Quite possibly.

Don't forget that a very significant component of "taste" is actually "smell".
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less
 

Offline bd139

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 14644
  • Country: gb
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #23036 on: January 18, 2019, 06:37:06 pm »
Which is why if you want to fuck up the in-laws’ Christmas dinner a well timed fart can ruin the reputation of the big turkey reveal instantly plus the bolstering comment of “that smells a bit weird”  :-DD
 

Online mnementh

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7284
  • Country: ca
  • *Escaping The Suck*
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #23037 on: January 18, 2019, 06:42:40 pm »
LOL...  :-DD That part is not numb. And this big old polock honker isn't just for show; as a youth I used to track my farm animals by smell. Though a couple decades of city life and 2 kids worth of poopy diapers HAVE taken their toll on the old schnozz; I'm pretty sure the cause is half my tongue being numb.

If the "taste map" theory is all wrong, do you know why this very localized anaesthesia appear to affect the taste of foods so drastically?

Is there a current competing theory? Or is it just the same old "Nah... That's wrong. We don't know what's right, but that's wrong." stuff you get from the same people who produce "Study Group" gems like "Negative Colonoscopy Findings Linked to Lower Risk of Colorectal Cancer, Related Deaths."

Yes, that was a for real article, in my inbox this morning.  :palm:

mnem
"Awww, dendrites!!!" ~ my 3rd favorite "alternate cussword" of all time.



« Last Edit: January 18, 2019, 06:44:16 pm by mnementh »
 

Online mnementh

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7284
  • Country: ca
  • *Escaping The Suck*
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #23038 on: January 18, 2019, 06:50:12 pm »
Which is why if you want to fuck up the in-laws’ Christmas dinner a well timed fart can ruin the reputation of the big turkey reveal instantly plus the bolstering comment of “that smells a bit weird”  :-DD

Fuck that noise!!! The in-laws may be raging "conservatives", but they put on a helluva spread; good enough that I'm more than willing to drive almost 2 hours and put my politics in my hip pocket long enough to share a family meal, and be genuinely thankful for all that implies.   ;)

mnem
When it comes to Christmas dinner, I'm the liberal black sheep of the family who "lingers about like a fart in a phone booth". And shamelessly so.
 

Offline bd139

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 14644
  • Country: gb
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #23039 on: January 18, 2019, 06:51:56 pm »
I got asked about brexit. Enough said :)
 

Online mnementh

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7284
  • Country: ca
  • *Escaping The Suck*
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #23040 on: January 18, 2019, 06:55:41 pm »
And I'll bet your response was "Fuck that noise!" too...  :-DD

mnem
It just now occurred to me... I'm probably the last generation who'll even know what that saying, or anything referring to a "phone booth", means.  :palm:


 

Offline Kosmic

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1348
  • Country: ca
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #23041 on: January 18, 2019, 06:57:38 pm »
The winter storm "watch" that I mentioned yesterday has now been confirmed as a "warning" for Saturday afternoon through Sunday. No snow amounts given other than stating "heavy snow" and blowing snow. So there will be mass hysteria today at the local grocery stores since most did not heed the potential forecast posted days ago. :palm: I did my grocery shopping yesterday and the store was nearly empty. So I'm fully provisioned. :-+

All I have to do is visit my local pharmacy this morning and pick up a refilled medication. Then hunker down and watch it from the window.  ;D

That's actually a good idea. Got the same weather alert (i'm a bit up north) and the fridge is almost empty. Will go to the grocery store tonight so I will not have to go out this weekend.
 

Offline tggzzz

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 11416
  • Country: gb
    • Having fun doing more, with less
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #23042 on: January 18, 2019, 06:58:09 pm »
If the "taste map" theory is all wrong, do you know why this very localized anaesthesia appear to affect the taste of foods so drastically?

I could come up with half a dozen superficially plausible reasons - and they would be worth what you paid for them.

The impenetrability of this topic is illustrated by two observations:
  • until a decade ago, the standard rubric was that there are four tastes. Then they added a fifth, umami
  • the last time I looked, nobody really understood the mechanisms by which anaesthesia works, let alone anything more precise
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less
 

Online mnementh

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7284
  • Country: ca
  • *Escaping The Suck*
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #23043 on: January 18, 2019, 07:22:33 pm »
LOL... well, I can tell you this:

A little experimentation while I'm still in this state shows that if I bite and chew only on the numb side of my mouth, all I can taste is a faint hint of bitterness. If I roll the same bit of food over to the other side of my mouth, I can taste sweet and tangy too. So clearly, tastebud distribution on the tongue is NOT symmetrical.

What else, I haven't a clue. I remember reading that some simple sugars and starches are broken down almost immediately by our saliva and absorbed directly through the highly vascular areas of our mouths; I suppose we could somehow sense this as part of the whole taste sensory input.

mnem
Things that make you go "Hmmm..."
 

Offline bd139

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 14644
  • Country: gb
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #23044 on: January 18, 2019, 07:33:00 pm »
And I'll bet your response was "Fuck that noise!" too...  :-DD

It just now occurred to me... I'm probably the last generation who'll even know what that saying, or anything referring to a "phone booth", means.  :palm:

I invoked Godwin's Law pretty sharply.

Phone booths (phone boxes) exist only in London to shield you from the elements when having a wee and for the placement of advertisements from the local floozies.

Anyway some TEA related stuff. The owner of the 5316A I was going to get my hands on has changed his mind after someone offered him 20 quid for it. I said I'd have given him 40 if he'd asked and he said "oh" and that was it  :-- ... so now the objective is to put the OCXO in a case as a standalone 10MHz reference which I can plug into the TF930.
 

Offline Specmaster

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 9189
  • Country: gb
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #23045 on: January 18, 2019, 07:33:40 pm »
LOL...  :-DD That part is not numb. And this big old polock honker isn't just for show; as a youth I used to track my farm animals by smell. Though a couple decades of city life and 2 kids worth of poopy diapers HAVE taken their toll on the old schnozz; I'm pretty sure the cause is half my tongue being numb.

If the "taste map" theory is all wrong, do you know why this very localized anaesthesia appear to affect the taste of foods so drastically?

Is there a current competing theory? Or is it just the same old "Nah... That's wrong. We don't know what's right, but that's wrong." stuff you get from the same people who produce "Study Group" gems like "Negative Colonoscopy Findings Linked to Lower Risk of Colorectal Cancer, Related Deaths."

Yes, that was a for real article, in my inbox this morning.  :palm:

mnem
"Awww, dendrites!!!" ~ my 3rd favorite "alternate cussword" of all time.




I'm quite sure that you are correct about the numbness of your tongue affecting your taste, after your old schnozz still smells OK and is not numb so the it has to be after effects of the injections administered to you prior to surgery with the ole dentists black and decker power drill  :-DD
Who let Murphy in?

Brymen-Fluke-Solartron-HP-Thurlby-Heathkit-Thander-Tek-Extech-Black Star-GW-Advance-Avo
 

Offline Kosmic

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1348
  • Country: ca
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #23046 on: January 18, 2019, 07:41:21 pm »
so now the objective is to put the OCXO in a case as a standalone 10MHz reference which I can plug into the TF930.

Hey I'm working on something like that. but i'm adding a video distributer (swaped the 75Ohms resistors for 50Ohms) in the box to connect multiple devices. Mostly working on the bench but still need to find a standalone power supply and the enclosure.

Will post some pictures soon.
 

Offline Specmaster

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 9189
  • Country: gb
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #23047 on: January 18, 2019, 07:45:18 pm »
Did you swap the databackup battery OK? If you did without having to do a recal then I'd be very surprised if it wasn't in spec.

There is no battery and ram in there. Also no real calibration procedure. The only thing you can do is adjusting the +-15V rail and zero the capacitance (usefull depending of the cable / connectors you use).
Yep, had a brain fart then, it should have been directed at greywolfe, sorry for the confusion, I'm taking myself outside now for a swift kicking now....thud....whack...slap...smack  :box:
Who let Murphy in?

Brymen-Fluke-Solartron-HP-Thurlby-Heathkit-Thander-Tek-Extech-Black Star-GW-Advance-Avo
 

Offline bd139

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 14644
  • Country: gb
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #23048 on: January 18, 2019, 07:51:45 pm »
so now the objective is to put the OCXO in a case as a standalone 10MHz reference which I can plug into the TF930.

Hey I'm working on something like that. but i'm adding a video distributer (swaped the 75Ohms resistors for 50Ohms) in the box to connect multiple devices. Mostly working on the bench but still need to find a standalone power supply and the enclosure.

Will post some pictures soon.

Cool stuff. Please do post  :-+

Yeah I was going to do something similar. Mine escalated from something simple into an excuse to use up all the crap I have floating around so hopefully it'll end up a battery backed reference box with 2 outputs. I found a tube of 74AC14's in the cupboard which make nice line drivers, some nice Amphenol panel mount BNC connectors (CPC sale!) and I have a spare 7Ah 12V SLA floating around and a suitable box so throw them all together and sorted!
 

Offline Kosmic

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1348
  • Country: ca
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #23049 on: January 18, 2019, 07:53:13 pm »
Yep, had a brain fart then, it should have been directed at greywolfe, sorry for the confusion, I'm taking myself outside now for a swift kicking now....thud....whack...slap...smack  :box:

Either way it was still a good question  :)

I was wondering about calibration. I guess since measurement are all frequency base, the instrument precision is defined by the main oscillator. I should spend more time reading the service manual.
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf