Author Topic: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread  (Read 1384874 times)

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Offline bitseeker

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #23200 on: January 21, 2019, 12:38:29 pm »
Something more TEA related - a recent thread on the antique radio forum has prompted me to excavate and begin working on the ancient Electro Instruments DVM I got a few years ago.

...


Is it a Nixie readout or a meter?

Pre-nixie.  Edge lit etched plexiglass or polycarbonate panels driven by stepper relays, like the early Non Linear Systems voltmeters.



Looks like a predecessor of the modern Lixie (LED Nixie) display.
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Offline bitseeker

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #23201 on: January 21, 2019, 12:41:08 pm »
Wow, thanks bean, that could be the answer to the problem. I'll look into that a in a bit more detail maybe tomorrow. I think that the probe is such a useful tool, going by Pauls video, it should reduce the time spent of some repairs as it will if used correctly, ensure that the correct faulty area is identified and thus by process of elimination lead me straight to the faulty part  :-+

So, what are the benefits of the Super Probe over a classic signal tracer? More sensitivity, smaller size, and battery operation?
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Online Specmaster

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #23202 on: January 21, 2019, 02:23:48 pm »
The benefits as far as I know are that normal signal tracers require a signal being injected into the DUT and then then "felt" by the probe, I say felt because they require contact to made with the circuit under test and re basically RF only.

The so called super probe and others like it, which all seem to be home brewed are non contact probes and have a switch to switch between the 2 modes, i.e., Audio frequency or Radio Frequency and don't always require a signal being injected. It can pick up the audio signal on anything that already has something going on like only 1 speaker is working etc and in RF mode, it is so sensitive that can pinpoint a noisy transistor or cap, resistor etc and it can detect if a oscillator.
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Offline beanflying

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #23203 on: January 21, 2019, 03:03:13 pm »
I want to build one of those too, but my current lab space really doesn't support all the PCB making operations, nor do I have room for SMD soldering equipment. Perhaps when I move and am able to grab more lab space.

I wouldn't be to put off by the SMD components to much 0805's are not to bad with a visor and a small tip. 0603's can be a bit of an issue on a tightly packed board but this one is fairly spread out and single sided from memory?


Curve Tracer I think I am building  :) http://www.paulvdiyblogs.net/2017/12/building-curve-tracer.html Lots of other good stuff on his blog too.  :-+
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Online mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #23204 on: January 21, 2019, 03:49:30 pm »


It appears to me from looking at the schematic, that there's no good reason it has to be so flupping wide. Should be easily possible to get the board down to 10-13mm wide even on perfboard, to fit inside more commonly available probe housings or construction materials. Or maybe inside a cheap clone 907, 936, or FX-9501 soldering iron handle, if you shield the board with copper tape.

Speaker/amp could easily be an old amplified PC speaker as others have shown; just build a decent linear or protected LiPo PSU for it and regulate its power with a TPS79101 or similar low-noise linear regulator to get clean power to feed the probe gain control.

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« Last Edit: January 21, 2019, 04:06:29 pm by mnementh »
 

Offline beanflying

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #23205 on: January 21, 2019, 04:34:32 pm »
That moment you are working on a suspect power supply on the bench and the power goes out to 2000 people. It wasnt me I promise  :palm: "back in three hours" or not  :--
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Online mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #23206 on: January 21, 2019, 04:45:20 pm »
Was that in reference to my linear power supply comment, pure random mode, or your "current" reality?  :-DD

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Online mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #23207 on: January 21, 2019, 04:48:23 pm »
*Hastily adds 'Larger generator' to his 'Moving to Toronto' shopping list*

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Offline beanflying

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #23208 on: January 21, 2019, 04:51:58 pm »
Time for another UPS for the main bench and maybe another for the printers. Lost a bit of GPSDO data and a 3d print (small one luckily). 4.50pm beer is cold so not a total disaster  :popcorn:

Bench cleanup time. I do own a 6kVa inverter generator if needed.
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Online mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #23209 on: January 21, 2019, 05:32:14 pm »
Yeah.... been wondering to myself if the UPS I have my Tornado plugged into might be contributing to the ghosting issues I've been having. It does make the LED lights plugged into the same power strip flicker noticeably. I need to try plugging into a different outlet altogether, with & without the UPS.

Point being... with the modulation noise from the SSR that controls the bed, I may need to plug into a ridiculously oversized UPS to be sure it doesn't affect the printer.

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Online Specmaster

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #23210 on: January 21, 2019, 07:14:49 pm »
I want to build one of those too, but my current lab space really doesn't support all the PCB making operations, nor do I have room for SMD soldering equipment. Perhaps when I move and am able to grab more lab space.

I wouldn't be to put off by the SMD components to much 0805's are not to bad with a visor and a small tip. 0603's can be a bit of an issue on a tightly packed board but this one is fairly spread out and single sided from memory?


Curve Tracer I think I am building  :) http://www.paulvdiyblogs.net/2017/12/building-curve-tracer.html Lots of other good stuff on his blog too.  :-+
It wasn't the SMDs that was concerning me that much, I have a reasonable microscope to assist there. Its the making of the PCB, I have zero knowledge of doing so or the materials, chemicals or space available to me.

@mnementh I hear what your saying, but would refer you to the answer above, plus the fact that it would be my first attempt at doing something using SMDs so rearranging everything to fit a board so small would a step to far to soon for me and would not get to the starting blocks I doubt. Computer speaker was what I had in mind with battery power.
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Offline bd139

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #23211 on: January 21, 2019, 07:25:53 pm »
I don’t make PCBs any more for the same reasons. China do a good job for a fiver at average if you can wait :)
 

Offline bitseeker

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #23212 on: January 21, 2019, 07:42:19 pm »
Yeah, no need to make boards at home, especially if, like me, you're not already set up for it. Inverted18650 makes stuff using EasyEDA (hosted by JLCPCB in China). I tried it when we were collaborating on the Keithley 228/228A quick disconnect board. It wasn't too bad getting the hang of it. The PCBs turned out nice, too.
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Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #23213 on: January 21, 2019, 07:44:56 pm »
Yeah, no need to make boards at home, especially if, like me, you're not already set up for it. Inverted18650 makes stuff using EasyEDA (hosted by JLCPCB in China). I tried it when we were collaborating on the Keithley 228/228A quick disconnect board. It wasn't too bad getting the hang of it. The PCBs turned out nice, too.
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Offline 0culus

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #23214 on: January 21, 2019, 08:00:12 pm »
I want to build one of those too, but my current lab space really doesn't support all the PCB making operations, nor do I have room for SMD soldering equipment. Perhaps when I move and am able to grab more lab space.

I wouldn't be to put off by the SMD components to much 0805's are not to bad with a visor and a small tip. 0603's can be a bit of an issue on a tightly packed board but this one is fairly spread out and single sided from memory?


Curve Tracer I think I am building  :) http://www.paulvdiyblogs.net/2017/12/building-curve-tracer.html Lots of other good stuff on his blog too.  :-+
It wasn't the SMDs that was concerning me that much, I have a reasonable microscope to assist there. Its the making of the PCB, I have zero knowledge of doing so or the materials, chemicals or space available to me.

@mnementh I hear what your saying, but would refer you to the answer above, plus the fact that it would be my first attempt at doing something using SMDs so rearranging everything to fit a board so small would a step to far to soon for me and would not get to the starting blocks I doubt. Computer speaker was what I had in mind with battery power.


I decided to chip in the $2 a month so I could watch Mr. Carlson's patreon videos and his toner transfer method looks very doable once I have some more space for things (a laser printer being among them). He uses ferric chloride to etch and lacquer thinner to clean up afterwards. Of course ferric chloride is not the only etchant you can use.
 

Offline beanflying

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #23215 on: January 21, 2019, 08:21:41 pm »
Heat sealed Poly Polypropylene bag is about the least messy option and use bag clips on one end (Big Clive photo resist style). Still using the last of my Ferric chloride up then I have some magic (apparently) white Chinese powder to try, just don't call the cops to raid my shack  :o

Still for one offs for my own stuff I tend to use veroboard ugliness as it is quicker and generally gets the job done including with some SMD components.
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Offline 0culus

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #23216 on: January 21, 2019, 09:05:59 pm »
Heat sealed Poly Polypropylene bag is about the least messy option and use bag clips on one end (Big Clive photo resist style). Still using the last of my Ferric chloride up then I have some magic (apparently) white Chinese powder to try, just don't call the cops to raid my shack  :o

Still for one offs for my own stuff I tend to use veroboard ugliness as it is quicker and generally gets the job done including with some SMD components.

Funny white powders from China...nothing could possibly go wrong!  :-DD
 

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #23217 on: January 21, 2019, 10:43:11 pm »
There is Gerber files for the PCB's for the SuperProbe so you could always get them made for you?

Not sure if these are Paul's originals and I didn't go looking but down the bottom https://www.instructables.com/id/Carlsons-Super-Probe/
I have down loaded the Gerber files, what program do I need to download in order to view / edit them if required?
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Offline beanflying

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #23218 on: January 21, 2019, 10:53:10 pm »
To take a look use the demo here https://gerber-viewer.easyeda.com/
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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #23219 on: January 22, 2019, 02:53:41 am »
Completed projects. Both the 190VDC reference and the 190mv, 1.9V, and 19V reference.



The updated and final schematic for the 190mv, 1.9V, 19V reference.



The next challenge: a stable 500VDC reference. Will start some design/build work this week.

Other news: The Fluke 8810A is on the UPS truck for delivery.
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Online mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #23220 on: January 22, 2019, 05:07:20 am »
MMMMM... Juicy! Nice work med!  :-+

Also... just a reminder... DANGER!!! 500.000.000 VOLTS!!!   :-DD



I want to build one of those too, but my current lab space really doesn't support all the PCB making operations, nor do I have room for SMD soldering equipment. Perhaps when I move and am able to grab more lab space.
I wouldn't be to put off by the SMD components to much 0805's are not to bad with a visor and a small tip. 0603's can be a bit of an issue on a tightly packed board but this one is fairly spread out and single sided from memory?


Curve Tracer I think I am building  :) http://www.paulvdiyblogs.net/2017/12/building-curve-tracer.html Lots of other good stuff on his blog too.  :-+
It wasn't the SMDs that was concerning me that much, I have a reasonable microscope to assist there. Its the making of the PCB, I have zero knowledge of doing so or the materials, chemicals or space available to me.

@mnementh I hear what your saying, but would refer you to the answer above, plus the fact that it would be my first attempt at doing something using SMDs so rearranging everything to fit a board so small would a step to far to soon for me and would not get to the starting blocks I doubt. Computer speaker was what I had in mind with battery power.



Understood... I remember designing and assembling the LED backlight module for my Turnigy 9X RC radio... a PCB 3mm wide x 120mm long. All 0603 & 0402 components, hand-soldered.  |O If I ever find it or any of the pics I'll show ya. But I did this thumbwheel rotary encoder all on perfboard; and the main body of it is only 7-10mm wide.

I don’t make PCBs any more for the same reasons. China do a good job for a fiver at average if you can wait :)

Yup... and if you don't want to send your work over there to be stolen by every punk kid with a smartphone, or you just want it in days not weeks... OshPark still does good and quick for $10-15. Plus I love the purple PCBs. ;)  I did a quick search just now on OshPark's shared projects page... I couldn't find anything anybody had shared that looks like the probe. Afraid you'll have to use the files from that fellow's blog.

I decided to chip in the $2 a month so I could watch Mr. Carlson's patreon videos and his toner transfer method looks very doable once I have some more space for things (a laser printer being among them). He uses ferric chloride to etch and lacquer thinner to clean up afterwards. Of course ferric chloride is not the only etchant you can use.

I've done it... it's a complete PITA, and it's still the easiest way to DIY. That's why I just use OshPark. I can be 1-week-or-so patient to let someone else eat all that assache.  ;)

There is Gerber files for the PCB's for the SuperProbe so you could always get them made for you?

Not sure if these are Paul's originals and I didn't go looking but down the bottom https://www.instructables.com/id/Carlsons-Super-Probe/
I have down loaded the Gerber files, what program do I need to download in order to view / edit them if required?

KiCad and Eagle will both import Gerber files for viewing; modifying them is a complete PITA though. It's like trying to reverse engineer a gcode. Both programs have a free version. Hmmm... according to this discussion, it is possible now to convert Gerbers into a file you can work with in KiCad.

mnem
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« Last Edit: January 22, 2019, 05:38:42 am by mnementh »
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #23221 on: January 22, 2019, 05:11:48 am »
It wasn't the SMDs that was concerning me that much, I have a reasonable microscope to assist there. Its the making of the PCB, I have zero knowledge of doing so or the materials, chemicals or space available to me.
It's not at all hard and another handy thing to know how to do.
The only 2 big items are a laser printer and a laminator.
This thread has all the info and links within to get you started and on the right track to making good PCBs.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/toner-transfer/
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Online mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #23222 on: January 22, 2019, 05:18:33 am »
As I just told Oculus... I've done it; it's a complete PITA: Vias are a joke as is 2-sided indexing in general, and it's still the easiest way to DIY. That's why I just use OshPark. I can be 1-week-or-so patient to let someone else eat all that assache.   :-+ :-+ :-+

mnem
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« Last Edit: January 22, 2019, 05:24:05 am by mnementh »
 

Online med6753

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #23223 on: January 22, 2019, 05:51:56 am »
The Fluke 8810A showed up. Some issues:

The handle got broken in shipment. No biggie. Either fix with epoxy or take the handle off my 8800A parts unit.

The DCV/ACV/Ohms selector switch is jammed solid. Can only select DCV. Will attempt to fix or again, take it off the 8800A parts unit.

Has a last cal date of 2007. Currently reading high. +9.9975V vs +9.9969V reference. It's still freezing cold from being in the unheated UPS truck. Will leave it on for a few hours to warm up. I'm sure it will improve.

Downloaded a manual. I'm not sure how much different it is from the 8800A. Externally they look the same except for the color of the case.

Tomorrow I'll start cleaning it up, check the power supply, figure out what's up with the selector switch, etc.



 
« Last Edit: January 22, 2019, 05:54:57 am by med6753 »
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Online Specmaster

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #23224 on: January 22, 2019, 06:00:01 am »
Looks nice though, the handle will be fine glued, I had two HP3466A both of which also suffered from broken handles in transit, a few minutes spend on cleaning the broken bits and appling superglue soon fixed them, never had any problems with the handles after that whatsoever  :-+
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