Author Topic: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread  (Read 1536544 times)

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Online bd139

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #30500 on: May 01, 2019, 04:57:27 pm »
A $0.01 coin, much like our 1p, costs more to move around and handle than its worth. They're doing away with them here soon apparently.

Which is a bugger because I tend to glue lots of them into things to add some weight as they're the cheapest way of doing it!  :-DD
 

Online beanflying

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #30501 on: May 01, 2019, 05:20:51 pm »
Our 1 and 2's have been out of general use for a long while and the 5 should have followed but for some reason the keep peddling it in spite of no vending machine or parking meter taking them any more. I am working my way through my Dad's stash of them and in particular have gifted them to some of his remaining mates.

I did post the Fusion and STL's here if anyone wants to mod it for a washer or their own useless coinage https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/msg1896380/#msg1896380
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Online med6753

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #30502 on: May 01, 2019, 05:28:00 pm »
The Heathkit Oscilloscope. It look worst then it is I think. The outside is really dirty. There is rust on the metal part around the screen. Med, if you want it, it's yours. Just cover shipping.



As I thought. Heathkit OL-1 3 inch scope. Thanks for taking the pictures. She's rough but she'll clean up. Obviously every one of those tubular caps will have to be replaced. That's a given. Probably many of the carbon comp resistors have drifted up too. Who ever wired it was kinda sloppy. There's only one thing that concerns me. That's not the original CRT. Original CRT was a 3GP1. That CRT is 3EP1 which I think is Russian. Please do me a favor. For some reason there's masking tape around the base of the CRT. Peel it back and there should be a silver "getter" like the tops of the tubes. Let me know if it's still silver. If it's grey or flaking off the CRT has air in it and no good.

If it's OK let me know how much to ship and I'll send you a postal money order.  :-+
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Online BravoV

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #30503 on: May 01, 2019, 05:52:24 pm »
Anyone with a Tek 2465B parts mule they can spare the case from for Dave's fixer up ?

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-1203-repair-tektronix-2465b-oscilloscope/

I have one 2465 parts mule, but kindof wanted the case to protect it during my move in a couple months. And shipping to Oz will be painful. And I don't know if the shell is the same or not; I do know the back cover is different to accommodate the 8020 axial fan they upgraded to for the 2465B. Can anybody confirm?

That said... if nobody closer steps up in a week or two, I'll send him mine.  :-+

mnem
 :popcorn:

Wait for few days until I'm back home, as I own 2465B and 2465, will compare & report back.

mnem, as requested, comparison photos attached below.

This photos confirmed that the blue case is identical, while the back cover, the B version has a really tiny bump to accommodate the thicker internal axial fan, not suitable I guess.  :-//
« Last Edit: May 01, 2019, 08:23:15 pm by BravoV »
 
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Offline Ero-Shan

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #30504 on: May 01, 2019, 07:52:05 pm »
On we go with the Solartron week.

Today's episode is titled "The strange case of the 7061". Of course there'll be lots of biggish but useless pictures and some daft commentary.

Summary: This instrument is a weird mixture of 'wonderful' and 'terrible'.

Let us start with the case: plastic with a little bit of metal at the back. While it helps making the instrument rather lightweight (especially for a 19″ case), it looks a bit cheap for something of this class. However, this is not of the kind that shatters by just looking at it. Really sturdy and no isolation problems. Even the rack mount flanges are plastic - those I wouldn't trust any more after they've seen several years of sunlight. As a 'systems voltmeter', this is meant to be used as part of something bigger, like an automated calibration station in a production line. Here, the expensive input connector makes perfect sense (4 mm plugs and jacks aren't really that good), and another hundred bucks don't care. The tilted front however seems to be aimed for workbenches. And the sensor keys ... oh dear. Personally, I want tactile feedback. But I have to admit they work flawlessly so far.


My 7061 is equipped with the scanner option. Here, the designers decided to use a different kind of connector for the inputs! Were they just nuts or is the other one simply too big to fit 8 of them within the available space?
Needless to say, I don't have a matching plug.  >:(


Enough with the appearances, let's put it on the bench and power up:


It shows no error, good. And stays at this. No measurement. Of course I should have read the manual, but who reads them anyway? Manuals are for wimps. ;) And all my computers are off, I'm to lazy to boot one, so it's trial and error time.
Easy enough, tapping "TRACK" apparently gets it going.

First it has to measure my 10.00000 V reference:


Yuck, that sucks! (An error of 0.3 % would have been excellent for a meter with movement; I remember seeing a class 0.5 instrument in a catalog 40 years ago. Never could have dreamed that one day I might own meters with that accuracy.) It indeed does measure a voltage in the vicinity of the actual value. This was confirmed with some other voltages. All of them showed a little low (at least the conversion seems to be linear). Should be adjustable.

The display is somewhat strange, with the raised decimal point and the gap. But this actually isn't such a bad idea. E.g., with the HP34401 I keep having problems interpreting the display, as the decimal point is very small, especially compared to the thousands separator. Every now and then I need to look twice. Here it's clear.

The 2 quick tests I do are the already mentioned DC volts (just 2.5, 5.0, 7.5 and 10.0 volts) and my resistance box (0, 1, 10, 50, 100, 1000, 10 k, 17 k, 100 k, 1000 k, 10 M Ohms). The only cable I have has only 2 banana plugs, so no 4-wire measurement. :--
This is with 1 Ω:


The same silly 'every resistance is kΩ' as with the 7150s. Seems to be a Solartron thing.
And yet, despite only 2 wires, the value isn't too bad. And the resolution implies that the range is not kΩ, just the display. The switch on my resistance box has 2 open positions. While I went over these, I din't see any 'OPEN', 'OVER' or any such. Hm. Going up to 10 MΩ the measurements took longer. Amazingly, this DMM was the first that gave me a quite stable reading for this! All others have severe trouble above 1 MΩ. Then I got daring and tried a 330 MΩ resistor. After several seconds, I got this:


Holy shitballs! It's not only measuring these high resistances, it is also giving good results! And I was wrong! kΩ is not the only resistance reading for Solartron (my apologies to them). I'm really impressed and know now which instrument to use for resistances, especially for those above 1 MΩ.

Now for the ubiquitous nudity.
View from above:


The construction strikes me as exceptionally tidy. No wires running across, no patchwork, all cables neatly arranged. This is the second Solartron instrument that looks much better nude than dressed (that's rare with people, too). It is a real beauty inside, IMO.

My curiosity has killed some devices, but I certainly want to see what's inside the shield. 2 screws can't keep me away:


It's the GLUG oscillator, 49.152 MHz without a crystal. (And don't ask me what 'GLUG' stands for - I haven't found the definition yet.)

A rechargeable NiCd battery (dead). No idea what it is used for. The maintenance manual describes how to remove it (yup, not 'replace'). It's not for the calibration data, they're in a EEPROM.


The scanner, also known as relay cemetery:


For completeness sake, a view from below. Yes, with the basic device everything is easily accessible with just the removing the top and bottom covers. Gotta love it.


Looks like I should invest some time in this. Read the manuals. (Try to) calibrate it. Check the caps. Clean it up (the plastic case has a slightly rough surface; stickers do not really stick there - one more point on the plus side).

On a side note: This post took me 90 minutes to write. I'm really slow. (And despite proofreading three times, there will still be errors. Sigh.)
 
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Online BravoV

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #30505 on: May 01, 2019, 08:30:02 pm »
On a side note: This post took me 90 minutes to write. I'm really slow. (And despite proofreading three times, there will still be errors. Sigh.)

As English is not my nature tongue as well, if I share my experience, you'll catch a nightmare.  :-DD

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #30506 on: May 01, 2019, 08:32:56 pm »
:o I wouldn't even want that on my bench. Something may crawl out of it and bite me.  :scared:

I've had the same thought with some old gear. :scared: :-DD

Man, if med says it is toast, I know I am tiltin' at windmills.  :-DD

I wish there were a way to test some of the boards. I may save them as "give 'em a try if you dare" swap-ins"  In any case, I will strip it in the garage so as not to frighten the gear on my bench.  ;D
.

It might clean up better than you think. I was reading an article in an old Tektronix magazine of some kind a while back about how they disassembled, totally cleaned, reassembled, and returned to service 'scopes belonging to the AEC (before DOE existed) that were contaminated from being in proximity to nuclear testing operations. That's about the worst mess I can think of to have a piece of test equipment contaminated with and successfully cleaned, and back in service.

I read the two Tek articles on washing equipment and considered giving it a try, after all, what do I have to lose? The problem is it looks like it sat outside in the rain. All of the springs on the push buttons are rusted, as are most of the exposed screws and metal pots. I'd probably have to replace most of the mechanical hardware in addition to whatever fixin' the electronics might need. Not to mention the condition of the case, which would certainly test my limited metalworking skills.

Personally, the challenge for me is not taking this on as a project. The more busted stuff is, the more I generally like it.  ::)

The EHT multiplier can probably be saved, since it can be washed. I might even be interested
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
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Online tggzzz

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #30507 on: May 01, 2019, 08:43:20 pm »
I have a Solartron 7081. It s much better after I cooked for a couple of days, as per the  manual.

Basically, wrap it in a blanket, turn it on, and let internal temperature be say 40C?
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
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Offline Ero-Shan

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #30508 on: May 01, 2019, 08:51:25 pm »
On a side note: This post took me 90 minutes to write. I'm really slow. (And despite proofreading three times, there will still be errors. Sigh.)

As English is not my nature tongue as well, if I share my experience, you'll catch a nightmare.  :-DD

That's not even it. Often I get at the english term before I find the german name for it. But I really do try to write correct sentences. With some of them even conveying some meaning. Admittedly I usually fail. |O
I'm also notorious in including obscure references to songs, movies, TV shows or whatever that nobody ever gets.

I guess that means no Pulitzer prize for me ...  :-DD
 

Offline Ero-Shan

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #30509 on: May 01, 2019, 09:15:13 pm »
I have a Solartron 7081. It s much better after I cooked for a couple of days, as per the  manual.

Basically, wrap it in a blanket, turn it on, and let internal temperature be say 40C?

I just finished making the dough for my 'salt cake' (Salzkuchen). Maybe I should put the 7061 in the oven with it.  :-DD
Several days of warm-up only to measure some voltages? That is no real use case. I have meters that don't drift noticeably after a few minutes of warm-up.
IIRC the maintenance manual requests 3 hours warm-up time. I'll let it run for some time and watch for the drift. .3 % would be really bad.

As of now, I'm really happy to own a very good resistance meter.  :-DMM

While I'm at it. The Omega sign at the far right above the editor window is pure crap:  \$\Omega\$ (TeX math mode). Can't it be replaced with just a normal Ω? The board can handle Unicode characters perfectly, there's no need for doing it that way.
Compare:

1 k \$\Omega\$    (math mode)
1 kΩ      (plain Omega)
 

Online med6753

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #30510 on: May 01, 2019, 09:38:28 pm »
On a side note: This post took me 90 minutes to write. I'm really slow. (And despite proofreading three times, there will still be errors. Sigh.)

As English is not my nature tongue as well, if I share my experience, you'll catch a nightmare.  :-DD

That's not even it. Often I get at the english term before I find the german name for it. But I really do try to write correct sentences. With some of them even conveying some meaning. Admittedly I usually fail. |O
I'm also notorious in including obscure references to songs, movies, TV shows or whatever that nobody ever gets.

I guess that means no Pulitzer prize for me ...  :-DD

You need not worry. You write english better than some folks who's english is their native tongue.  :-+

Edit...and even though there is some German in my family tree speaking/writing/understanding it is a total fail.  :-DD
« Last Edit: May 01, 2019, 09:42:03 pm by med6753 »
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Online med6753

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #30511 on: May 01, 2019, 09:45:43 pm »
:o I wouldn't even want that on my bench. Something may crawl out of it and bite me.  :scared:

I've had the same thought with some old gear. :scared: :-DD

Man, if med says it is toast, I know I am tiltin' at windmills.  :-DD

I wish there were a way to test some of the boards. I may save them as "give 'em a try if you dare" swap-ins"  In any case, I will strip it in the garage so as not to frighten the gear on my bench.  ;D
.

It might clean up better than you think. I was reading an article in an old Tektronix magazine of some kind a while back about how they disassembled, totally cleaned, reassembled, and returned to service 'scopes belonging to the AEC (before DOE existed) that were contaminated from being in proximity to nuclear testing operations. That's about the worst mess I can think of to have a piece of test equipment contaminated with and successfully cleaned, and back in service.

I read the two Tek articles on washing equipment and considered giving it a try, after all, what do I have to lose? The problem is it looks like it sat outside in the rain. All of the springs on the push buttons are rusted, as are most of the exposed screws and metal pots. I'd probably have to replace most of the mechanical hardware in addition to whatever fixin' the electronics might need. Not to mention the condition of the case, which would certainly test my limited metalworking skills.

Personally, the challenge for me is not taking this on as a project. The more busted stuff is, the more I generally like it.  ::)

The EHT multiplier can probably be saved, since it can be washed. I might even be interested

Good point and yes, a very valuable part because of unobtanium status.
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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #30512 on: May 01, 2019, 10:09:11 pm »
I have a Solartron 7081. It s much better after I cooked for a couple of days, as per the  manual.

Basically, wrap it in a blanket, turn it on, and let internal temperature be say 40C?
I agree with this, the longer they are on for, the better the stability of its reading becomes. I've been running my 7150s for extended periods connected to my Heathkit IG-4505 calibrator and right now after an hours run time, they are measuring 100VDC out and the displays are altering by 2-3mV and when I first tried them on 100VDC the differences were in the magnitude of 20-30mV. These are really useful meters and I'm glad that I have added them to my meter line up.
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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #30513 on: May 01, 2019, 10:20:28 pm »
@Ero-Shan The best cleaner I have found for this type of plastic on the Solartrons is a cream cleaner, like a bathroom or kitchen cleaner and we've had this discussion before about your language problems, you don't have a problem, your postings are perfectly up to standard and are often of a higher standard then many British Nationals.
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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #30514 on: May 01, 2019, 10:36:27 pm »
I have a Solartron 7081. It s much better after I cooked for a couple of days, as per the  manual.

Basically, wrap it in a blanket, turn it on, and let internal temperature be say 40C?

I just finished making the dough for my 'salt cake' (Salzkuchen). Maybe I should put the 7061 in the oven with it.  :-DD
......

Mmmm Salty Beer Snacks - added to a future baking session  :-+
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Offline mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #30515 on: May 01, 2019, 11:24:59 pm »
Anyone with a Tek 2465B parts mule they can spare the case from for Dave's fixer up ?

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-1203-repair-tektronix-2465b-oscilloscope/
I have one 2465 parts mule, but kindof wanted the case to protect it during my move in a couple months. And shipping to Oz will be painful. And I don't know if the shell is the same or not; I do know the back cover is different to accommodate the 8020 axial fan they upgraded to for the 2465B. Can anybody confirm?

That said... if nobody closer steps up in a week or two, I'll send him mine.  :-+

mnem
 :popcorn:
Wait for few days until I'm back home, as I own 2465B and 2465, will compare & report back.
mnem, as requested, comparison photos attached below.

This photos confirmed that the blue case is identical, while the back cover, the B version has a really tiny bump to accommodate the thicker internal axial fan, not suitable I guess.  :-//
   

Thanks... that helps a lot, actually. The over/under shot explains a lot of my misgivings about the 2465B setup; I just couldn't figure how they were fitting a 20mm thick fan and a stamped aluminum centrifugal airflow deflector that appears to be at least 10mm deep into a cavity with ~27mm of depth.

Obviously the correct way to "fix" a 2465 would be to use a 2465B rear cover and fan deflector with a modern 8020 thermally controlled fan; however, that 2465B rear cover is unicorn poop unless you scavenge it yourself |O currently on its way to me from San Antonio.   

Could I get you to *cringe* take the back cover off the 2465B and measure the depth of the fan cavity to these points? It'd really help me out as far as my fan hack article. Never mind - I found one (the first I've ever seen actually available to buy) while I was looking for the pictures below. Now I'll have a real 2465B cover I can use for my testing!

I ALSO found something ELSE while looking... something that evidently became a reality since my last foray into "2465B Space". But it's important enough to give its own post. :-+

Cheers,

mnem
moo. or don't.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2019, 11:41:34 pm by mnementh »
 

Offline Ero-Shan

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #30516 on: May 01, 2019, 11:53:50 pm »

You need not worry. You write english better than some folks who's english is their native tongue.  :-+

Edit...and even though there is some German in my family tree speaking/writing/understanding it is a total fail.  :-DD

Well, thanks, but it really wasn't my intention to provoke compliments.

My first dabblings in electronic communications was in 1991 with a - then - illegal modem over a long distance call (I usually waited until 21:00 hours when it got cheaper). uucp on my Amiga, which didn't work reliably. I remember spending a Sunday afternoon (also cheaper) stepping through uucico to find the bug. But I can't remember whether I found it (I think so, as it worked fine for some years). Usenet was the thing (Dear Emily Postnews). Some guys' writing was extremely sloppy. They defended themselves by arrogantly proclaiming that their time was immensely valuable, so they couldn't proofread their hogwash or put a little more effort in while writing it in the first place. They thought that 1000 readers spending 2 minutes more each (trying to make out what was meant) was better than 5 minutes of their time. I decided to at least try to do better.

Of course, neither the long forgotten usenet nor this forum is a place for high class literature. I do not expect anyone to go to extremes. A little respect for the reader is all that is needed. We all make mistakes, typos and other blunders (especially those of us with a language barrier), but what I did not find here is disrespect. Thank you all for that!

It's my own fault to be so slow.

The cake is about to go in the oven. Maybe I will post a picture (that will disappoint some) of it. If it looks decent enough.

That's it, I already overstayed my OT welcome.
 
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Offline mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #30517 on: May 02, 2019, 12:18:37 am »
Dude... stop apologizing. This thread is VERY OT-tolerant; we are NOT a "technical bulletin", so casual conversation... as one would expect over dinner with friends or hanging out in a sports bar... is the norm.

As I obviously (obliviously?:-DD) take great pleasure in being "the local color" or "comic relief" in most of my haunts, this thread has a special place in my heart because of that tolerance.  >:D

And you are far too critical of your own English literacy. It is quite evident that you speak/comprehend/write in English much more fluently than at least half of those for whom it is ostensibly their first, be it the Queen's English or 'merkin Ainglish. ;)

mnem
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« Last Edit: May 02, 2019, 12:21:13 am by mnementh »
 

Offline Ero-Shan

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #30518 on: May 02, 2019, 12:47:39 am »
Since I promised it:


No salty beer anywhere. Eaten hot with a cup (or 2, or 3) of coffee. Mahlzeit!  :)
 
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Offline mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #30519 on: May 02, 2019, 12:47:55 am »

eBay auction: #312544171423

So... while searching out some pics today, I stumbled across something else besides my 2465B back cover: a 2465B A5 board overhaul kit based on this FM16W08 mod a few years ago in the 2465B teardown thread: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/tektronix-2465b-oscilloscope-teardown/msg904691/#msg904691 I vaguely remember this mod, but only that he hadn't successfully programmed the chip. Evidently there was some success since I last caught up on that thread!

It appears tautech is aware of the mod, as he spoke with OP at the time. Tau, if you could share with us any knowledge you have, it would be awesome.

The idea of a "forever" 2465B limited only by CRT hours and climate-controlled lifetime is intriguing; but as the DS1225AD has been successfully applied here as well now, I'm wondering if folks are just like "Okay... 60 years is long enough lifetime for ANY boat anchor, and the DS1225AD is the right family of parts for this application, so inherently safer" or if the fixed number of cycles lifetime I read about has some folks spooked about the real-world life expectancy of the FM16W08.

After this post, user Old-E wasn't very active on eevBlog; in fact, he hasn't been here for a couple years. I've eMailed him re: followup, and so far I haven't gotten a MAILER-DAEMON kickback, so hopefully he hasn't gone silent-key and we may get some feedback re: longevity of the mod.

I'll let y'all know when I have more knowledge,

mnem
*tinker-putter-tinker*
« Last Edit: May 02, 2019, 01:08:00 am by mnementh »
 

Offline mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #30520 on: May 02, 2019, 12:52:59 am »
Since I promised it:     No salty beer anywhere. Eaten hot with a cup (or 2, or 3) of coffee. Mahlzeit!  :)

Looks like a yummy pizza pie!  :-+ What flavor are the ants sprinkled on top? Anise or dill?    >:D

mnem
*agitating-ily*
« Last Edit: May 02, 2019, 12:55:00 am by mnementh »
 

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #30521 on: May 02, 2019, 01:09:55 am »
I thought ants to start with too  :-DD

More seriously, looks very nice and is making me hungry.

Busy week - not much time for TEA. Boo hiss :(
 

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #30522 on: May 02, 2019, 01:11:29 am »
Since I promised it:     No salty beer anywhere. Eaten hot with a cup (or 2, or 3) of coffee. Mahlzeit!  :)

Looks like a yummy pizza pie!  :-+ What flavor are the ants sprinkled on top? Anise or dill?    >:D

mnem
*agitating-ily*

Wow, that looks good!  :-+
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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #30523 on: May 02, 2019, 01:42:43 am »
...
The idea of a "forever" 2465B limited only by CRT hours and climate-controlled lifetime is intriguing; but as the DS1225AD has been successfully applied here as well now, I'm wondering if folks are just like "Okay... 60 years is long enough lifetime for ANY boat anchor, and the DS1225AD is the right family of parts for this application, so inherently safer" or if the fixed number of cycles lifetime I read about has some folks spooked about the real-world life expectancy of the FM16W08.
...
I would stick with the DS1225AD, but not for the reason of cycle life expectancy of the FM16W08.  Rather, the characteristics of the 2465B supporting circuitry is not suitable for the FM16W08 to guarantee safe power down.  It wasn't designed for that chip.  More detail here and in earlier posts in that thread:

  https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/tektronix-2465b-oscilloscope-teardown/msg2012572/#msg2012572

My $0.02, since you asked.
 
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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #30524 on: May 02, 2019, 02:20:35 am »
Warning....picture heavy post.

7904 Porn. I opened it up today to brush out the dust. I still haven't tried to power it up and in fact I may not get to that until next week. Tomorrow I have to go to NYC and Friday take the lady copper on some doctor appointments. Back home Friday night since she has to work this weekend. On Sunday there is another hamfest. And today I just feel too lazy to do anything more than dust it out.  :-//

The last calibration date I can find is 1980 on the plug-ins. I'd say it's a little overdue.  :o And speaking of the plug-ins.....I'll probably pre-test them in the 7603N to make sure they are OK.






An old gray beard with an attitude.
 
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