Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[beanflying]

@Kosmic I'm not sure that it really is a cheap 34401A even for lucky fellows in North America time you've paid your shipping, given the state of it and the scant info by way of decent photos, it could still pose a significant risk of needing quite a bit of remedial work needing to done. When I think I only paid £133 for 2 x Solartron 7150 Plus meters, OK, they need the mains filter replacing which did add about £80 to the cost but even so they cost a lot less, but that said, I know I'm a cheapskate 

They sell at around 400 - 500$ here. So below 300$ is the lowest I seen for a while. Also the 34401a is a hell of a meter. Really like mine.

My 34401A is actually more stable with Temp than the Keysight 34461A I now have when the shack cools down. The 34401A goes up a few PPM while the Keysight drops up to twice as much. Still both very good bits of kit and between about 18-25C rock solid.

[beanflying]

OT
Something for Bean and mnem that we discussed a good while back.
Finally finished the dry run protection on that new pump installed back in Feb. 
$12 flow sense switch plus a $1 timer chopped/hacked/cleverly installed  into the 12V pump control circuitry so that the pump will only run for 2s without sensing water flow.
Bonus visual feedback in that the ON light atop the pump shed power pole indicates the NO flow by going OUT/OFF when the NO flow sense triggers.
That's put that chapter to bed until the next stuff up happens. 

I recall bean warning to make the cross-section of the vane on that switch small enough not to give too much leverage so the switch didn't get broken; how did you resolve that? Myself, I'd print a box to go over that. If dirt and rust can get in there (as seen in the photo) where it's mounted bugs and moisture can too.

mnem
"You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike..."

The Vanes are fairly thin brass so you trim them in width generally leaving them to just clear the bottom of the pipe wall below.

2.25am here just swapped a print job over to get a job out the door tomorrow Sleep time I hope.....

[mnementh]

@Kosmic I'm not sure that it really is a cheap 34401A even for lucky fellows in North America time you've paid your shipping, given the state of it and the scant info by way of decent photos, it could still pose a significant risk of needing quite a bit of remedial work needing to done. When I think I only paid £133 for 2 x Solartron 7150 Plus meters, OK, they need the mains filter replacing which did add about £80 to the cost but even so they cost a lot less, but that said, I know I'm a cheapskate 

They sell at around 400 - 500$ here. So below 300$ is the lowest I seen for a while. Also the 34401a is a hell of a meter. Really like mine.

@Specmaster -

Yeah, especially when compared to my $30 ($47 delivered) 3478A eBay auction: #263969514965 or my $105 ($128 delivered) 189 from All-Test, who still have lots of HP g00dness and FLUKE awes0me that need a loving home.

I just don't know that I can make my wallet believe one more digit resolution (okay, and RS-232/GPIB + yummy CFL display) is worth THAT much more. 

Finding a vendor that still accepts reasonable offers AND that you can trust to actually 1) Sell TE that is "as-received" rather than "put together from knackered parts pulled off to fix another one" and B) is packed properly so you get what you bought instead of a 2-year horror story like URI's recently posted in here is a rarity indeed. 

I'd rather camp out on their door any day and wait for what I want than spend months trolling and scouring eBay for the "you stole that" deal that some people seem to think are the only thing eBay is good for. 

If I REALLY needed it, I'd probably look at Radwell first; their prices for never-used surplus or refurb with a 2 year warranty seem like a helluva deal in comparison to a $300 pig-in-a-poke from fleaBay.

mnem
*back to the salt mines*

[med6753]

I successfully bailed the Civic out of repair jail and the carnage wasn't as bad as I expected. Since I bought the tires from them they waved the $20 USD/tire mount and balance fee. So with the fixed annual NYS inspection fee of $21 USD the total was $476 USD. And they're not cheapy tires. They are Falkens. Still tough to swallow when I wasn't expecting it but I think I got a damn good deal. These guys are local, do good work, and above all are honest. I'd recommend them in a heartbeat. So the Civic just needs an oil change and new air filter which I do myself and already have the oil/filters on hand and it's good for another year. 

[mnementh]

Ummm... Falken IS a cheap-ass tire. They're a US-nameplate rebrand of Ohtsu (NOT Ohatsu), some of the cheapest Japanese-owned, [EDIT] China-produced now apparently South Africa-produced tires you can buy.  Both are subsidiaries of Sumitomo Rubber, whose Yakuza ties have cost them business associations with both Dunlop US (They still own Dunlop Japan) and Goodyear. They still manufacture tires in upstate NY using foreign-production raw material; I guess that's where your vendor got the idea they were a quality brand.  [/EDIT]

They are better than the Czek-manufactured Borum Tires I buy from Discount Tire, but only JUST. 

mnem
*tired and exhausted*

[Specmaster]

@Kosmic I'm not sure that it really is a cheap 34401A even for lucky fellows in North America time you've paid your shipping, given the state of it and the scant info by way of decent photos, it could still pose a significant risk of needing quite a bit of remedial work needing to done. When I think I only paid £133 for 2 x Solartron 7150 Plus meters, OK, they need the mains filter replacing which did add about £80 to the cost but even so they cost a lot less, but that said, I know I'm a cheapskate 

They sell at around 400 - 500$ here. So below 300$ is the lowest I seen for a while. Also the 34401a is a hell of a meter. Really like mine.

@Specmaster -

Yeah, especially when compared to my $30 ($47 delivered) 3478A eBay auction: #263969514965 or my $105 ($128 delivered) 189 from All-Test, who still have lots of HP g00dness and FLUKE awes0me that need a loving home.

I just don't know that I can make my wallet believe one more digit resolution (okay, and RS-232/GPIB + yummy CFL display) is worth THAT much more. 

Finding a vendor that still accepts reasonable offers AND that you can trust to actually 1) Sell TE that is "as-received" rather than "put together from knackered parts pulled off to fix another one" and B) is packed properly so you get what you bought instead of a 2-year horror story like URI's recently posted in here is a rarity indeed. 

I'd rather camp out on their door any day and wait for what I want than spend months trolling and scouring eBay for the "you stole that" deal that some people seem to think are the only thing eBay is good for. 

If I REALLY needed it, I'd probably look at Radwell first; their prices for never-used surplus or refurb with a 2 year warranty seem like a helluva deal in comparison to a $300 pig-in-a-poke from fleaBay.

mnem
*back to the salt mines*

I know precisely what you mean, I also got my HP3468A and Fluke 8840A and the Fluke 8842A from All Test, although I did pay a bit more then you did with the shipping etc to the UK but I'm very happy with them, and all were within spec, don't always agree with each other but are certainly close enough. I did once say that I could not see any real improvement in having meters that go beyond 4.5 digits, (certainly true for the stuff I do anyway) but that has not stopped me acquiring more capable meters, well it is TEA after all 

I was recently sniffing around a couple of 7.5 digit ones until I saw the state of my bank balance and thought twice about it but seeing as I'm now a retired gentlemen I do have the time to keep scouring the usual haunts where I have been known to find that "You Stole That" type of deal from in the hope finding that kind of deal because I'm safe in the knowledge that if I did, that I can generally recover the cost of if by flipping one of my lesser meters, that's another advantage in hunting out that special deal.

[med6753]

Ummm... Falken IS a cheap-ass tire. They're a US-nameplate rebrand of Ohtsu (NOT Ohatsu), some of the cheapest Japanese-owned, China-produced now apparently South Africa-Produced tires you can buy.  Both are subsidiaries of Sumitomo Rubber, whose Yakuza ties have cost them business associations with both Dunlop US (They still own Dunlop Japan) and Goodyear.

They are better than the Czek-manufactured Borum Tires I buy from Discount Tire, but only JUST. 

mnem
*tired and exhausted*

You know.....last year you pissed in my wheaties when I purchased Sumitomo from Tire Rack for the CR-V. Just so you know, they have been excellent tires. Wearing well, glass smooth on the highway, and have excellent traction in both wet and especially snow. No complaints.

The Civic hasn't been a daily driver since 2016 when I got the CR-V. Between last years inspection and this year I put exactly 1950 miles on it. Even if the Falken's ARE cheap ass like you claim it will be at least 2024 before I have to replace them.   

[Specmaster]

Ummm... Falken IS a cheap-ass tire. They're a US-nameplate rebrand of Ohtsu (NOT Ohatsu), some of the cheapest Japanese-owned, [EDIT] China-produced now apparently South Africa-produced tires you can buy.  Both are subsidiaries of Sumitomo Rubber, whose Yakuza ties have cost them business associations with both Dunlop US (They still own Dunlop Japan) and Goodyear. They still manufacture tires in upstate NY using foreign-production raw material; I guess that's where your vendor got the idea they were a quality brand.  [/EDIT]

They are better than the Czek-manufactured Borum Tires I buy from Discount Tire, but only JUST. 

mnem
*tired and exhausted*

Over here our tyres have ratings against them for various factors like Noise, wet grip, rolling resistance and wear and the ones I look for the ones that give me the best wet grip and wear ratings along with rolling resistance and noise levels and they are always in the most expensive brands, often double that of the cheaper brands but how much value do you put on the protection of not only your life, but also your family and If I can stop the car that much quicker and in a shorter distance then that's the one I invest my money into. Anything else is false economy, its like poking high energy supplies with a Harbour Freight Freeby or cheap arse meter, just don't do it. 

[GregDunn]

@Kosmic I'm not sure that it really is a cheap 34401A even for lucky fellows in North America time you've paid your shipping, given the state of it and the scant info by way of decent photos, it could still pose a significant risk of needing quite a bit of remedial work needing to done. When I think I only paid £133 for 2 x Solartron 7150 Plus meters, OK, they need the mains filter replacing which did add about £80 to the cost but even so they cost a lot less, but that said, I know I'm a cheapskate 

They sell at around 400 - 500$ here. So below 300$ is the lowest I seen for a while. Also the 34401a is a hell of a meter. Really like mine.

They seem like great DMMs - but I have a personal prejudice against the VFD in a lot of modern TE.  My experience with them (in a dozen or so pieces of audio/video gear in the house) is that they fade, and fade, and fade; my Sony receiver is almost impossible to read if the lights in the room are on, and the VCRs, DVDs and misc stuff is nearly as bad.  It's great if you love them, but I just can't.  I passed on a 34401 at a flea market a couple of weeks ago based on that, and the fact that $350 seemed a lot for something that was untested and appeared to have been rained on that morning.

It's worth a little less accuracy for me to have my Fluke/HP LED displays that I can read 20 feet away in full daylight.  They're also still easy to source replacements for.  Ultimately, it's what you're willing to accept and what suits your preferences.

[med6753]

Ummm... Falken IS a cheap-ass tire. They're a US-nameplate rebrand of Ohtsu (NOT Ohatsu), some of the cheapest Japanese-owned, [EDIT] China-produced now apparently South Africa-produced tires you can buy.  Both are subsidiaries of Sumitomo Rubber, whose Yakuza ties have cost them business associations with both Dunlop US (They still own Dunlop Japan) and Goodyear. They still manufacture tires in upstate NY using foreign-production raw material; I guess that's where your vendor got the idea they were a quality brand.  [/EDIT]

They are better than the Czek-manufactured Borum Tires I buy from Discount Tire, but only JUST. 

mnem
*tired and exhausted*

Over here our tyres have ratings against them for various factors like Noise, wet grip, rolling resistance and wear and the ones I look for the ones that give me the best wet grip and wear ratings along with rolling resistance and noise levels and they are always in the most expensive brands, often double that of the cheaper brands but how much value do you put on the protection of not only your life, but also your family and If I can stop the car that much quicker and in a shorter distance then that's the one I invest my money into. Anything else is false economy, its like poking high energy supplies with a Harbour Freight Freeby or cheap arse meter, just don't do it. 

We have pretty much the same standards here and I do pay attention to them.

[mnementh]

Ummm... Sorry. Maybe I have a different perspective; having sold, repaired, installed and raced tires from pretty much all the major manufacturers out there. I've seen them all literally inside & out, and in may cases, in cross-section as well.

Would rather have a nice sticky set of Kumhos or better yet, Yokohamas if I were going to go Asian-produced. In the northern US ice & snow, Goodyear All-Weather radials are still almost impossible to beat no matter which product line you choose, plus all but the cheapest lines are produced in the US. They're heavy-walled, which is good, but tend to need more weight to balance.

Michelins are still my 2nd choice for northern climate and first for summer; their hydroplaning-resistance is legendary for a reason. Their production standards and uniformity are second to none; the ONLY brand I've EVER seen a full set of tires that didn't need ANY weight to balance.

   And I've seen it more than once with them.

Down here in the Tejas suck, cheap takes priority for a daily driver; any tire will sun-rot in a couple-three years, so trying to get 50-60K from a set is idiotic. Get what's cheap, run them till they peel off the rims, replace them and pocket the difference.

On my trucks I used to run 31.5-10.50/15 8-ply radials retreads from Bandag, who also manufactured in New York state. Their utility tread was simply unbeatable for on/off road mixed use, and I NEVER had one peel, even when I was hauling ten tons of steel doing erection work. They sometimes took 1/4 pound of lead to balance, though.    If Manny Esquerra could beat them from one end of the Baja desert to the other, they had to have something going for them.

mnem
"The great wheel never stops turning..."

[SilverSolder]

Tires have gotten stupid expensive in general...   I distinctly recall fitting 4 tires for less than $200,  in the 2000's.

Repeat to yourself:  "There is no inflation"   ...  as the air hisses in!

[URI]

@Kosmic I'm not sure that it really is a cheap 34401A even for lucky fellows in North America time you've paid your shipping, given the state of it and the scant info by way of decent photos, it could still pose a significant risk of needing quite a bit of remedial work needing to done. When I think I only paid £133 for 2 x Solartron 7150 Plus meters, OK, they need the mains filter replacing which did add about £80 to the cost but even so they cost a lot less, but that said, I know I'm a cheapskate 

They sell at around 400 - 500$ here. So below 300$ is the lowest I seen for a while. Also the 34401a is a hell of a meter. Really like mine.

They seem like great DMMs - but I have a personal prejudice against the VFD in a lot of modern TE.  My experience with them (in a dozen or so pieces of audio/video gear in the house) is that they fade, and fade, and fade; my Sony receiver is almost impossible to read if the lights in the room are on, and the VCRs, DVDs and misc stuff is nearly as bad.  It's great if you love them, but I just can't.  I passed on a 34401 at a flea market a couple of weeks ago based on that, and the fact that $350 seemed a lot for something that was untested and appeared to have been rained on that morning.

It's worth a little less accuracy for me to have my Fluke/HP LED displays that I can read 20 feet away in full daylight.  They're also still easy to source replacements for.  Ultimately, it's what you're willing to accept and what suits your preferences.

Oh, no problem with the 34401A in this field (display).   
There a many offers for fresh VFDs from China in the range of $30-$40.   
Bought one in April and repaired my second 34401A with it -an Agilent that obviously had a life as a part of an always-on test system (was barely readable -but the 34401A was under 300€*..).

edit: added link and correct price and footnote..
----
*- 293,67€, but excluding shipping of 53,56€.   

[URI]

Need for a HP 3400A Multimeter?
[url=https://www.ebay.com/itm/333222140602]https://www.ebay.com/itm/333222140602[/url]

Photo of a nice radio shack included..   

[Housedad]

Life getting in the way of projects, like usual.  Still trying to finish my wood project.  On a better note, the wife just bought me a new Vizio 24" TV as a monitor for the bench.  I just ordered a articulating stand for it.  We'll  see how it goes.

You guys. On the tires.  I bought  5 new ones for my Excursion in December.  $1100 bucks with mounting.  It is a burning pain that won't go away.

[tautech]

My day has gone to shit. Took my '04 Honda Civic in for annual inspection. Turns out the tires are dry rotted and cracked. Won't pass. I only drive that car a few thousand miles per year and the thread isn't even half worn. But they have a date code of 2013 and the rubber is drying out. Gonna take about $500 USD went all is said and done to bail it out of jail. 

Oh well. 

A good buddy is real anal about his vehicles and every couple of weeks rubs some of that tire black on the sidewalls and never has issues with cracking.

The solution is to do more burnouts.

1.0L front wheel drive. Hmm 

You must be getting old if you can't remember how to smoke up a little front wheel drive car ! 
Easy if you have a working handbrake. 

Ma's 1275 GT Clubman could do the meanest burnouts. 

[mnementh]

Plus you can do wicked s-burnouts cuz you can steer the burn!

mnem
*The reason they outlawed FWD in 4-cyl street-stock class* 

[worsthorse]

Well, this TE free few days appears to be turning themselves into a week or two. Various RL fires burning - none of my own making - that I am trying to put out or keep going as required.  So... the TDR 1503 that arrived yesterday, (definitely a parts mule given the condition of its case) and the TDR 1502 that is supposed to show up on Monday, won't get photographed let alone power-tested for at least a week.

I am, running lurker mode and more or less, keeping up with high speed expansion of the TEA thread; you all continue to have a lot to say.   

  

PS - edited so it reads a little less like English is my third language.

[bd139]

You must be getting old if you can't remember how to smoke up a little front wheel drive car ! 
Easy if you have a working handbrake. 

Ma's 1275 GT Clubman could do the meanest burnouts. 

Yeah I know that but the damn thing has an obtuse computer in it. If the handbrake is on and a wheel goes round, it goes ding and drops the throttle off, stalls and reminds you to take the handbrake off. Literally any combination of naughty and it dings at you. It has a dickhead alarm basically 

Well, this has been a pretty much TE free few days that appears to be turning itself into a week or two. Various RL fires burning - none of my own making - that I trying to put out or keep going as required.  So the TDR 1503 that arrived yesterday, and is definitely a parts mule given the condition of its case - and the TDR 1502 that is supposed to show up on Monday, won't get power-tested for at least a week.

But I am, more or less, keeping up with the TEA thread though I am definitely running mostly lurker mode right now.   

It's impossible to keep up

I'm considering a TDR myself now. I spent half the evening trying to work out which bit of coax is the good one. That would have an answer to me pretty quickly as one of them has a broken middle somewhere

[tautech]

OT
Something for Bean and mnem that we discussed a good while back.
Finally finished the dry run protection on that new pump installed back in Feb. 
$12 flow sense switch plus a $1 timer chopped/hacked/cleverly installed  into the 12V pump control circuitry so that the pump will only run for 2s without sensing water flow.
Bonus visual feedback in that the ON light atop the pump shed power pole indicates the NO flow by going OUT/OFF when the NO flow sense triggers.
That's put that chapter to bed until the next stuff up happens. 

I recall bean warning to make the cross-section of the vane on that switch small enough not to give too much leverage so the switch didn't get broken; how did you resolve that?

Myself, I'd print a box to go over that board. If dirt and rust can get in there where it's mounted (as seen in the photo), bugs and moisture can too.

mnem
"You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike..."

The flow switch came with a selection of various length SS vanes and I trimmed one to the longest that would fit.
The arm it mounts on hit the side of the pipework and that provided a movement limit.

Timer lives in this green steel cabinet that while not entirely waterproof gives good enough protection against pump shed leaks and floods.....well it has thus far.



A couple of times we've had a full tank of 15k litres from a 55m head dropped into the pump house with no ill effects on the electrics. 
So yeah I should put a little plastic condom hat over the timer PCB or at least give it a coat of PCB lacquer.
Thanks. 

[med6753]

My day has gone to shit. Took my '04 Honda Civic in for annual inspection. Turns out the tires are dry rotted and cracked. Won't pass. I only drive that car a few thousand miles per year and the thread isn't even half worn. But they have a date code of 2013 and the rubber is drying out. Gonna take about $500 USD went all is said and done to bail it out of jail. 

Oh well. 

A good buddy is real anal about his vehicles and every couple of weeks rubs some of that tire black on the sidewalls and never has issues with cracking.

I use a tire dressing on the sidewalls every time I wash the car.....which is often. I hate a dirty car. The cracking and dry rot was in the thread. There is nothing you can do about it.

[tautech]

My day has gone to shit. Took my '04 Honda Civic in for annual inspection. Turns out the tires are dry rotted and cracked. Won't pass. I only drive that car a few thousand miles per year and the thread isn't even half worn. But they have a date code of 2013 and the rubber is drying out. Gonna take about $500 USD went all is said and done to bail it out of jail. 

Oh well. 

A good buddy is real anal about his vehicles and every couple of weeks rubs some of that tire black on the sidewalls and never has issues with cracking.

I use a tire dressing on the sidewalls every time I wash the car.....which is often. I hate a dirty car. The cracking and dry rot was in the thread. There is nothing you can do about it.

Oh hell, that’s enough to make you go 

[xrunner]

A siglent scope out in the field, way to go! 

[tggzzz]

I'm considering a TDR myself now. I spent half the evening trying to work out which bit of coax is the good one. That would have an answer to me pretty quickly as one of them has a broken middle somewhere

If you are only interested in clean breaks in the middle of a long cable, you can probably get away with a homebrew sharp-edged step generator and scope. Or possibly a noise generator, SDR and inverse FFT.

If you want to find more subtle problems near connectors, then you need a Tek 1502 plus they are fun to use at a hamfest to find a cable's actual impedance, cf nominal impedance.

[tautech]

A siglent scope out in the field, way to go! 

Not a scope actually but the SVA1015X, a combo SA/VNA showing a 315 MHz center frequency Smith chart.
Used there to confirm the newly made and installed RF antenna still performed OK despite possible proximity effects from the tin roof on shed, nearby concrete pole and the poles galv steel wire back stay.
Search for my Antenna Project Log for the full story. 

Much easier to lug to a remote location than some fine old