Author Topic: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread  (Read 1705249 times)

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Online tggzzz

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #34025 on: June 30, 2019, 06:19:34 am »
I don't climb well but around here we learn to cope with constant wind which is ALWAYS in your face.

Old cycling motto: "if the wind isn't against you, you aren't cycling fast enough".
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
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Online mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #34026 on: June 30, 2019, 06:49:52 am »
"Always some muthafucka tryin' ta skate uphill." ~ BLADE  :-DD

mnem
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Offline beanflying

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #34027 on: June 30, 2019, 07:05:57 am »
There is good reason on the flats around here some of the Strava segments have records over 70km/hr (without a motor  ;) )
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Offline battlecoder

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #34028 on: June 30, 2019, 09:58:05 am »
After like a year without any decent analog scope listing in our local second-hand market, I managed to score a Hitachi v-1085 scope!. It wasn't a bargain, really (~$140 USD), but that's still a reasonable price in my opinion for a 4-channel, 100Mhz analog scope with digital readouts and delayed sweep, especially considering that scopes here are REALLY expensive (even aftermarket; there's still some people trying to sell 2-CH, 20Mhz scopes for >$100).

It's also in pretty good shape, although it requires some minor calibration: CH2 "moves" when inverted, and adding CH1+CH2 also has an offset as well; there's probably one or two pots to adjust there. Also the test signal is a bit out of its 1Khz frequency (Currently sitting at 1.025Khz), but that is not really that important. Everything else is fine and completely within specs.

For you lucky guys in the States, there's a similar scope in eBay right now for $80 USD (Hitachi V-1100A), but just to show you why I can't get used tech equipment from that site; shipping to my country is $130 USD according to the listing, so even if I managed to win the auction at its minimum, and the parcel managed to miraculously dodge customs entirely, it would still be more expensive than what I ended up paying for mine.

Anyway, I'm quite happy with the purchase, and of course, as it would be expected from a member of this group, I had absolutely no need for it :-DD
 

Online Specmaster

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #34029 on: June 30, 2019, 11:04:12 am »
Let me ask you guys for advice, what is your goto transistor data/equivalents book?

I have one of these transistor kits and they are supposed to be general purpose transistors but the problem being is that I don't seem to be able to find much information about them, in the kits there are these transistors:
2N2222  PNP
2N5401  PNP
A1050    PNP
S8050    NPN
S9014    NPN
2N3904  NPN
2N5551  NPN
C1815    NPN
S9012    PNP
S9015    PNP
2N3906  PNP
2S945    NPN
S8550    PNP
S9013    NPN
S9018    NPN

The amplifier that I'm currently working on seems to be overloaded after the input stages and the transistors in use at this stage are 2 of 2N3904 with a high gain and I'm looking for something with less gain to prevent the next stage being over-driven.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
 

 
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Online tggzzz

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #34030 on: June 30, 2019, 11:35:46 am »
Let me ask you guys for advice, what is your goto transistor data/equivalents book?

I have one of these transistor kits and they are supposed to be general purpose transistors but the problem being is that I don't seem to be able to find much information about them,...             

I normally just google for the datasheet, optionally with words like "datasheet" and "transistor". The two on your list (s8050, s9015) that I tried gave many hits.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
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Offline VK5RC

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #34031 on: June 30, 2019, 11:37:32 am »
This fits perfectly, test equipment used today, 2020 Trek Checkpoint with road tires.  Test performed, road 110 miles, climbed a mountain to 8,800' elevation.  Test result, I didn't die.  Conclusion, I need therapy.

https://www.strava.com/activities/2491157501
That was one huge ride, after 2hrs and a couple of thousand feet height gain - I start 'thinking what crime did I commit?'
Was it hot?
Whoah! Watch where that landed we might need it later.
 
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Offline battlecoder

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #34032 on: June 30, 2019, 11:42:10 am »
Let me ask you guys for advice, what is your goto transistor data/equivalents book?

I have one of these transistor kits and they are supposed to be general purpose transistors but the problem being is that I don't seem to be able to find much information about them, in the kits there are these transistors:                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
The only equivalent/replacement guide I've ever owned, was a ECG Master Replacement Guide (1996 edition), and I think I used it only once or twice for its intended purpose. I would normally use it to find pinouts and check whether there was a part made specifically for a certain application.
Now I pretty much Google everything.

Back to your problem, I searched for a couple of random transistors from that list and I managed to find datasheet for all of them. I literally just appended "transistor datasheet" after the model number in all my Google queries.
Anyway, if for some reason you can't find information about a transistor I'd advice you to get those inexpensive transistor testers. I don't really know their accuracy for transistor measurements, but at the very least that will help you compare your devices, if you are looking for less/more gain, for instance.
 

Online bd139

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #34033 on: June 30, 2019, 12:18:32 pm »
On the gain problem, usually if there’s too much if you whip any transistor in  then the circuit is bad. The gain should be controlled by the resistor network around the transistor, not the transistor itself if possible.

You can hack it usually by adding some emitter degeneration if it’s a CE amp by putting 10-100 ohms in series with the emitter. That will make the gain a function of the collector’s load impedance and that resistor as RC/RE rather than beta.

If it’s an old circuit or the transistor have paint on them then you might find it’s hyper sensitive to this sort of stuff.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2019, 12:21:01 pm by bd139 »
 
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Online xrunner

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #34034 on: June 30, 2019, 12:33:29 pm »
Here is my JRC (Japan Radio Company) NRD-353D communications receiver. I got it in the early 1990's brand new. The price in 1990 dollars was about $1,500. All I'm doing today is replacing the battery.

But, I wanted to show you the construction of it. It's totally modular. All boards go into the main backplane. It's really beautiful.

Also, I guess I should have known about them, but I recently learned about JIS screws.  :P If you don't already know, JIS (Japanese Industry Standard) screws look like Phillips screws but aren't milled the same way. You can tell by the dimple on top of the screw. Most of my older shortwave receivers have them, as well as newer Yaesu radios. I also checked a cheap Chinese variac I got and it also has the JIS screws. I never even noticed that dimple before.

You can buy JIS screwdrivers on Ebay and elsewhere. I got one coming as we speak. You're never too old to learn something new!

P.S. As most of you know, but for those that don't, there is also another type of screw that looks like a phillips screw, It's a pozidrive screw. You can find them used on hp equipment. They have four lines scribed on the top of the screw, and need their own bit to really fit correctly.

The nice thing about standards is there are so many to choose from.  :-DD
I am a Test Equipment Addict (TEA) - by virtue of this forum signature, I have now faced my addiction
 
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Offline kj7e

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #34035 on: June 30, 2019, 12:58:16 pm »
This fits perfectly, test equipment used today, 2020 Trek Checkpoint with road tires.  Test performed, road 110 miles, climbed a mountain to 8,800' elevation.  Test result, I didn't die.  Conclusion, I need therapy.

https://www.strava.com/activities/2491157501
That was one huge ride, after 2hrs and a couple of thousand feet height gain - I start 'thinking what crime did I commit?'
Was it hot?

We started at 6:30am, it was a cool 10c or so.  On the way back around 4pm it was in the maybe 31-32c.  The climb up Mt Pions was a challenge, I was the only one in my group to make it to the top.  Others ran out of food and water just 2.5 miles from the top and turned back.  I was running low too and bummed water from some hikers at the top, but after riding 60 miles to get there I was not turning back with only 2.5 miles to go.
 

Online bd139

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #34036 on: June 30, 2019, 01:05:59 pm »
@xrunner. Nice bit of kit that radio. I love how you can positively smell the Zukon EDA on those boards. They always look unique coming out of that.
 
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Online Specmaster

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #34037 on: June 30, 2019, 01:10:30 pm »
Thanks guys, I seem the odd one out in wanting information in book format. The thing I seem to remember back in the day was that you could books that not only gave date on the transistors abut also grouped them by their main and what they are best suited to, usage, even their power ratings etc so that when designing or modifying you could quickly select the most suitable ones by voltage, power, type etc. It made selecting an alternative device so much easier.

I have a transistor tester that will provide a guide as to gain and also the pin out but they can never give the max voltage that they can withstand, the total power output or indeed if the device best suited to RF, switching Gen Purpose of AF etc.

I used to have loads of technical books but gave them all away when I got married and little ones came along  :palm: Never thought for a moment that I might want them again one day
Who let Murphy in?
 

Online tggzzz

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #34038 on: June 30, 2019, 01:35:40 pm »
Thanks guys, I seem the odd one out in wanting information in book format. The thing I seem to remember back in the day was that you could books that not only gave date on the transistors abut also grouped them by their main and what they are best suited to, usage, even their power ratings etc so that when designing or modifying you could quickly select the most suitable ones by voltage, power, type etc. It made selecting an alternative device so much easier.

There were two types of book:
  • all the datasheets for a single manufacturer's devices
  • compendiums like Towers International, which only gave very basic information for many devices
The latter is superceded by DigiKey's parametric searches.

The other alternative will be TAoE X-chapters, but that won't be available before December, possibly January.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less
 

Offline Cerebus

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #34039 on: June 30, 2019, 04:48:46 pm »
The other alternative will be TAoE X-chapters, but that won't be available before December, possibly January.

Yeah sure, but which year?

I've been waiting for the x-chapters since TAoE 3 was out and I think I'm quite close to giving up hope. I've heard nominated months for their appearance before and watched the same month of the floowing year come around without anything happening, so I'm not going to hold my breath...
Anybody got a syringe I can use to squeeze the magic smoke back into this?
 

Online bd139

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #34040 on: June 30, 2019, 05:01:01 pm »
Ugh spent most of today putting a Bliley OCXO in a box. Got it working. Now which counter is right out of the four I have? Correct answer: fuck knows - they're all different!

Ordered a Leo Bodnar GPSDO. Will review when it turns up.

In the mean time, OCXO in a box. LM317 regulator, Bliley 10MHz module, 2n2369 level converter, 74AC14 driver for 50 ohms. Works nicely. Dead stable but absolute accuracy is completely unknown. Plan is to compare this to the GPSDO once every 3 motnhs and use this permanently wired as I have no provision for a permanent GPS time reference.



Now a mini rant about China. Fucking bastards sent me a dead OCXO. My third one is duff. Oven doesn't work. Angry  >:(
 
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Offline FransW

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #34041 on: June 30, 2019, 05:21:16 pm »
Ugh spent most of today putting a Bliley OCXO in a box. Got it working. Now which counter is right out of the four I have? Correct answer: fuck knows - they're all different!

Depending on the number of digits, available on your counter, this will remain.
Whether they are Hz's, milli-Hz's or micro-Hz's.

Next time try the Oscilloquartz 8663-XS. The most stable DOCXO I got.
Another alternative is the GPSDO that is in the 1U LMU-300 19" module. From around 2010, TruePosistion and CTS OCXO.

Frans
 
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Online tggzzz

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #34042 on: June 30, 2019, 05:27:54 pm »
The other alternative will be TAoE X-chapters, but that won't be available before December, possibly January.

Yeah sure, but which year?

I've been waiting for the x-chapters since TAoE 3 was out and I think I'm quite close to giving up hope. I've heard nominated months for their appearance before and watched the same month of the floowing year come around without anything happening, so I'm not going to hold my breath...

This year.

Win Hill has been handing out small section, and I even found a trivial error in one.

On June 24th the finished latex and eps versions were sent to CUP. See https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/the-art-of-electronics-x-chapters/msg2506140/#msg2506140 and following messages.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less
 
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Online bd139

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #34043 on: June 30, 2019, 05:31:46 pm »
Ugh spent most of today putting a Bliley OCXO in a box. Got it working. Now which counter is right out of the four I have? Correct answer: fuck knows - they're all different!

Depending on the number of digits, available on your counter, this will remain.
Whether they are Hz's, milli-Hz's or micro-Hz's.

Next time try the Oscilloquartz 8663-XS. The most stable DOCXO I got.
Another alternative is the GPSDO that is in the 1U LMU-300 19" module. From around 2010, TruePosistion and CTS OCXO.

Frans

Main is an hP 5334B which I will slave off this. Only concerned with 1Hz absolute accuracy mainly for RF experiments. I’d like a really nice one but I can’t justify it. This is good enough basically.

I am going to bus this and my DG1022Z so I have consistent frequency measurement and signal generation basically.
 

Online bd139

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #34044 on: June 30, 2019, 05:32:47 pm »
The other alternative will be TAoE X-chapters, but that won't be available before December, possibly January.

Yeah sure, but which year?

I've been waiting for the x-chapters since TAoE 3 was out and I think I'm quite close to giving up hope. I've heard nominated months for their appearance before and watched the same month of the floowing year come around without anything happening, so I'm not going to hold my breath...

This year.

Win Hill has been handing out small section, and I even found a trivial error in one.

On June 24th the finished latex and eps versions were sent to CUP. See https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/the-art-of-electronics-x-chapters/msg2506140/#msg2506140 and following messages.

That’s good news. I was worried they’d be dead before it dropped :)
 

Offline BU508A

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #34045 on: June 30, 2019, 06:10:27 pm »
Let me ask you guys for advice, what is your goto transistor data/equivalents book?

Since I started with electronics back in the 80's I am using the books from ECA.

https://www.eca.de/

It's a pity, they do not print books anymore, the last one they are selling is dating from 2010/2011.

They have an online database here:

https://www.ecadata.de/

Maybe this might be helpful for your needs.
“Chaos is found in greatest abundance wherever order is being sought. It always defeats order, because it is better organized.”            - Terry Pratchett -
 
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Offline kj7e

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #34046 on: June 30, 2019, 06:47:30 pm »
Ugh spent most of today putting a Bliley OCXO in a box. Got it working. Now which counter is right out of the four I have? Correct answer: fuck knows - they're all different!

Depending on the number of digits, available on your counter, this will remain.
Whether they are Hz's, milli-Hz's or micro-Hz's.

Next time try the Oscilloquartz 8663-XS. The most stable DOCXO I got.
Another alternative is the GPSDO that is in the 1U LMU-300 19" module. From around 2010, TruePosistion and CTS OCXO.

Frans

Main is an hP 5334B which I will slave off this. Only concerned with 1Hz absolute accuracy mainly for RF experiments. I’d like a really nice one but I can’t justify it. This is good enough basically.

I am going to bus this and my DG1022Z so I have consistent frequency measurement and signal generation basically.

Id second the Oscilloquartz 8663 or the rebranded UCT 108663 which can be found NOS for cheap on eBay.  They both have an internal ovenized vref which should use for the EFC voltage, this gives you an amazingly stable output.  If you want, I would sell you one of my UCT's for cost and Ill provide the EFC voltage for exactly 10MHz.  I have two that have never been fired up so they would need to cook for a month or so before I would send it.

Edit, after looking at the Bliley nv47a1282 datasheet, I see it also has an internal vref.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2019, 11:44:22 pm by kj7e »
 
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Online mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #34047 on: June 30, 2019, 06:59:23 pm »
:wtf: Fuuuuu... When the hell did Viton seals get to be so gawddamn expensive? Used to be like 50¢ - $1.00 more than Nitrile; now they're effing double and triple the price?   |O

mnem
Kids are obnoxious. Music sucks out loud. Things cost more. Yup... officially an old fart. :o

Well... a new morning brings new joys; found a US vendor on fleaBag who took my lowball offer of $15 for two. Now I have one for this compressor and one for its little brother, which uses a smaller-displacement version of the same pump.  :-+

After like a year without any decent analog scope listing in our local second-hand market, I managed to score a Hitachi v-1085 scope!. It wasn't a bargain, really (~$140 USD), but that's still a reasonable price in my opinion for a 4-channel, 100Mhz analog scope with digital readouts and delayed sweep, especially considering that scopes here are REALLY expensive (even aftermarket; there's still some people trying to sell 2-CH, 20Mhz scopes for >$100).

It's also in pretty good shape, although it requires some minor calibration: CH2 "moves" when inverted, and adding CH1+CH2 also has an offset as well; there's probably one or two pots to adjust there. Also the test signal is a bit out of its 1Khz frequency (Currently sitting at 1.025Khz), but that is not really that important. Everything else is fine and completely within specs.

For you lucky guys in the States, there's a similar scope in eBay right now for $80 USD (Hitachi V-1100A), but just to show you why I can't get used tech equipment from that site; shipping to my country is $130 USD according to the listing, so even if I managed to win the auction at its minimum, and the parcel managed to miraculously dodge customs entirely, it would still be more expensive than what I ended up paying for mine.

Anyway, I'm quite happy with the purchase, and of course, as it would be expected from a member of this group, I had absolutely no need for it :-DD

Well... there are reasons the V-212 (That 20MHz scope you were probably talking about) still brings the same kind of money you paid for your V-1085; firstly, nostalgia. Pretty much everybody who went to any tech school in the 80s or 90s had one on the bench that they learned on. And the other reason is why they lasted so long on tech school benches: They just plain worked. And kept on just plain working; like that 19" RCA tabletop TV in your grandparents' bedroom for 30 years. ;)

Let me ask you guys for advice, what is your goto transistor data/equivalents book?

I have one of these transistor kits and they are supposed to be general purpose transistors but the problem being is that I don't seem to be able to find much information about them, in the kits there are these transistors:
2N2222 PNP   2N5401 PNP   A1050 PNP   S8050 NPN   S9014 NPN   2N3904 NPN   2N5551 NPN   C1815 NPN   S9012 PNP   S9015 PNP   2N3906 PNP   2S945 NPN   S8550 PNP   S9013 NPN   S9018 NPN

The amplifier that I'm currently working on seems to be overloaded after the input stages and the transistors in use at this stage are 2 of 2N3904 with a high gain and I'm looking for something with less gain to prevent the next stage being over-driven.

The ECG Master cross-Reference: https://archive.org/details/EcgSemiconductorsMasterReplacementGuide1989 has always been my first choice. The NTE QuickCross reference is based on it; you can use it online or download the app: https://www.nteinc.com/quickcross/

There's also https://alltransistors.com/ and the 2015 ECA database downloadable here: https://www.eca.de/download-vrt-dvd-2015/ and this 1973 GE cross-ref that has been circulating for decades: http://www.bunkerofdoom.com/lit/GE_73_transistor_repl_giude.pdf

And 101science's transistor substitution resource page: http://101science.com/transistor.htm#crossdb It's been up for decades, so unfortunately a lot of dead links... but always a good place to start your search.

Cheers,

mnem
*back to the salt mines*
« Last Edit: June 30, 2019, 07:07:06 pm by mnementh »
 

Offline battlecoder

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #34048 on: June 30, 2019, 07:06:06 pm »
Well... there are reasons the V-212 (That 20MHz scope you were probably talking about) still brings the same kind of money you paid for your V-1085; firstly, nostalgia. Pretty much everybody who went to any tech school in the 80s or 90s had one on the bench that they learned on. And the other reason is why they lasted so long on tech school benches: They just plain worked. And kept on just plain working; like that 19" RCA tabletop TV in your grandparents' bedroom for 30 years. ;)
Oh, I wish the 20Mhz scopes that you normally see here were v-212. It's normally a Protek 6502 or derivatives (I'm looking at you, Hung Chang 6502 currently going for $120 USD).
 

Online mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #34049 on: June 30, 2019, 07:09:42 pm »
Well... there are reasons the V-212 (That 20MHz scope you were probably talking about) still brings the same kind of money you paid for your V-1085; firstly, nostalgia. Pretty much everybody who went to any tech school in the 80s or 90s had one on the bench that they learned on. And the other reason is why they lasted so long on tech school benches: They just plain worked. And kept on just plain working; like that 19" RCA tabletop TV in your grandparents' bedroom for 30 years. ;)
Oh, I wish the 20Mhz scopes that you normally see here were v-212. It's normally a Protek 6502 or derivatives (I'm looking at you, Hung Chang 6502 currently going for $120 USD).

O-o-o-o-okay... that's just sad.  :'(

But... you found your way here, so not all bad. Welcome to the wingnut foundry!  :-+

mnem
"This is real life; of course there will be a test. When you're least prepared for it, and have the most on the line, probably." ~me
« Last Edit: June 30, 2019, 07:22:06 pm by mnementh »
 


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