Author Topic: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread  (Read 1722578 times)

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Offline Ero-Shan

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #34325 on: July 05, 2019, 11:55:47 am »
When I notified our little community about my acquisition of a Tek 475, I forgot to mention that it came with two 6105 probes:


They had some contact problems - the connectors on the cable ends needed some cleaning - but apart from being somewhat screwed up they seem to be working nicely.

The pouch also contained this:


and 2 folders regarding Unisys' OCR readers. It seems to me this scope was used in their repair.

Two and a half of the hind feet were knackered during shipping, but the seller can only partly be blamed for that, as all of them are rather brittle.


Even though it doesn't have a DM44 attached, a little over 100 € is acceptable, methinks (way below 1 €/MHz).
 

Offline Ero-Shan

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #34326 on: July 05, 2019, 12:16:06 pm »
There are people on eBay who try to sell you a single Tektronix knob for 20 €.

On the next listing page was a whole Tektronix scope still for less than that. OK, it wouldn't stay that way, and it was definitely an ugly duckling! But it had some knobs and maybe some other parts like double FETs. I placed a low bid to probably win a parts mule.
And got it with 40 cents to spare!

So here is my scope #24, a Tektronix T932. I guess it was aimed at repair shops, 'economy' class.


As we all know, the internet was made for porn. So even the ugly ones are stripped and displayed as their naked self:  ;)




It is not cleaned, and I think I will not clean it, so it doesn't get any ideas about being spared.  :-DD
 

Online med6753

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #34327 on: July 05, 2019, 12:40:42 pm »
Yep, the T932 certainly isn't a good example of a pleasing design. And for some reason the CRT offset to right rather than typical to the left really bugs me.  :-//
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Online med6753

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #34328 on: July 05, 2019, 12:42:51 pm »
Look at 5316A. Does the same stuff as an HP 5334B but much smaller.

Yea, that looks promising.  :-+

Sorry got a couple of minutes more to reply now. To note - things to watch out for on the 5316A's ...:

1. LED segments go pop. Look for ones showing the 8888888 self test. you can replace them worst case relatively cheaply
2. Some come with OCXO. If not you can get third party ones. There are loads of retro-fit projects out there.
3. Make sure you buy one with channel C option if you need more than 100MHz as you can't retro fit it.
4. Doesn't do math / amplitude or rise time measurements.
5. There's a portable version, the 5315A which has a battery option but loses external ref, HPIB and is cheap and plastic cased. These are pretty good to be honest (I had one!) but the thing has three old lead acid cylindrical batteries in it which are probably crusted up or leaked by now which is a risk. You can remove the entire battery option though! They don't stack well like the 5316A does.
6. The channel C is fused. Be prepared to find a fuse for it!
7. There's a 5314A version. AVOID. It's a different unit entirely and crap.

That explains why some of the 5316A's were so cheap. No channel C option. And 100MHz won't cut it. Good to know...thanks!  :-+
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Offline kj7e

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #34329 on: July 05, 2019, 01:30:52 pm »
The 5316's, A or B will easily count well beyond the 100MHz spec, typically >150MHz.  I have had a few, they are great counters, but look for options 001 (TXCO) or 004 (OCXO) and 003 (1GHz channel C).  I had an absolutely pristine sample with both options 003 and 004, I regret selling.  But it was to help offset the cost for a 53132A with both the options 10 (High Stability OCXO) and 30 (3GHz) channel C.  The 53132A is in another class, 12 digits in 1 second.

 

Online Kosmic

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #34330 on: July 05, 2019, 01:35:38 pm »
Or... you could get one of these (assuming they are available in the USA, other wise get one shipped), yes it is an LCD but it is specced to be accurate to 1ppm, goes up to 3GHz, has a USB port for connection to a PC and also has a ext ref in BNC (no monkeys clacker required) so you provide a 10MHz external ref signal to it if you required. It is small and lightweight runs off a wall wart, or internal rechargeable battery and if connected to a PC draws its power from the PC so is ideal for use as  portable devices to boot. What's not to like?

It's really a shame but TTI instruments are hard to find in NA. In fact, it's the same situation for all the European brands. Waited for more then a year to get my hands on a Prema DMM (probably a bad example since Prema stopped making DMM).
 

Offline nixiefreqq

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #34331 on: July 05, 2019, 02:05:10 pm »
hey med

here is an option for you.   fluke 7260a.

goes to 520 Mhz on the 50 ohm c channel. 

.5ppm off when compared to a rubidium (that's not bad for a non-ocxo unit),  but you can externally reference it.

its an old joke........but the fact that a non HP counter snuck into my basement really is a fluke.

any chance your vacation plans bring you near south central PA?

"free range primate"
 

Online med6753

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #34332 on: July 05, 2019, 02:14:11 pm »
The 7260A looks interesting but all the current ones available on Ebay lack channel C.

Vacation will be a working one in Staten Island at the Lady Copper's place. Her rear outside deck needs work and guess who's doing it?  ;D   
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Offline bd139

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #34333 on: July 05, 2019, 02:28:48 pm »
Today's lunch time soldering session, the final HP 5334B upgrade...

2x HSMS-2812 input limiter clamp.



2x HSMS-2812 peak detector ring (note the gap unlike above hence why I did a more shitty job of this one  :-DD):



1x MB506 prescaler socketed. Also showing the new cable to the front panel



1x TF2015 signal generator flat out into it



1.3GHz upgrade successful! I think. Need something faster to test it with now and thus TEA is born again.

Also need to get rid of this TF2015. It's totally unstable and not phase locked.
 
The following users thanked this post: med6753, kj7e, Ero-Shan, nixiefreqq, Kosmic

Offline nixiefreqq

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #34334 on: July 05, 2019, 02:34:59 pm »
The 7260A looks interesting but all the current ones available on Ebay lack channel C.

Vacation will be a working one in Staten Island at the Lady Copper's place. Her rear outside deck needs work and guess who's doing it?  ;D

sorry to hear about that.  i try to avoid work details away from home.  turns out you always need a tool that was left behind.

had not looked at ebay till you mentioned it.  yeah.....would not consider one without a c channel.  AND mine was only 20 quatloo's WITH the c channel.  too bad you are not local.

also noticed that the guy in erie has those 3 fluke 8375a nixie meters on the bay.  auction starts at 46 bucks and no bidders yet.  ends at 10pm.  would be on it in a heartbeat but......LOCAL PICKUP ONLY.
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Online med6753

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #34335 on: July 05, 2019, 02:55:26 pm »
I volunteered to do the work. Finding a general contractor in NYC who isn't a thief and does decent work is damn near impossible. It's not going to be all that difficult. Clearing some brush, replacing some rotten decking, and total re-paint. And I work for cheap. I told her all you have to do is feed me and....never mind!  :P :-DD And her typical sassy retort was "can I chose one or the other? Or how about NONE of the above?" Funny girl.  ;D 

In August she has another week off and that will truly be a relaxing vacation.
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Offline GregDunn

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #34336 on: July 05, 2019, 04:31:00 pm »
There are people on eBay who try to sell you a single Tektronix knob for 20 €.

On the next listing page was a whole Tektronix scope still for less than that. OK, it wouldn't stay that way, and it was definitely an ugly duckling! But it had some knobs and maybe some other parts like double FETs. I placed a low bid to probably win a parts mule.
And got it with 40 cents to spare!

So here is my scope #24, a Tektronix T932. I guess it was aimed at repair shops, 'economy' class.

I've had one of those for ~30 years and it hasn't yet required me to open it and fix anything.  Traces are still bright, and all the controls work just fine.  Since I primarily do audio, I never bothered to look for another scope till the latest round of inexpensive DSOs appeared.  I know people like to make fun of the 930 series, but for a student on a budget, or a hobbyist, it was hard to find a quality under $1000 scope back in the 70s.  I got mine for $200 with manual + Tek probes, and it still does the job.
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #34337 on: July 05, 2019, 04:36:03 pm »
I volunteered to do the work. Finding a general contractor in NYC who isn't a thief and does decent work is damn near impossible. It's not going to be all that difficult. Clearing some brush, replacing some rotten decking, and total re-paint. And I work for cheap. I told her all you have to do is feed me and....never mind!  :P :-DD And her typical sassy retort was "can I chose one or the other? Or how about NONE of the above?" Funny girl.  ;D 

In August she has another week off and that will truly be a relaxing vacation.
You call that cheap, most would call that an unacceptably high price. ;D
 

Offline BU508A

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #34338 on: July 05, 2019, 04:43:55 pm »
[That explains why some of the 5316A's were so cheap. No channel C option. And 100MHz won't cut it. Good to know...thanks!  :-+

Found this one in USA with the C option:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Agilent-Keysight-HP-5316B-001-003-Universal-Counter/362645002295

290.- US$ is maybe a bit high for option 001 and 003
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Offline bd139

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #34339 on: July 05, 2019, 04:44:57 pm »
Crazy high. I paid £45 for mine with an OCXO and channel C!

This was somewhat before they got popular on here though.
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #34340 on: July 05, 2019, 04:57:04 pm »
Crazy high. I paid £45 for mine with an OCXO and channel C!

This was somewhat before they got popular on here though.
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Online med6753

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #34341 on: July 05, 2019, 05:01:23 pm »
[That explains why some of the 5316A's were so cheap. No channel C option. And 100MHz won't cut it. Good to know...thanks!  :-+

Found this one in USA with the C option:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Agilent-Keysight-HP-5316B-001-003-Universal-Counter/362645002295

290.- US$ is maybe a bit high for option 001 and 003

Yea, I saw that one and thought that is a little steep in price. They found out I was in the market.  :-DD
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Online med6753

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #34342 on: July 05, 2019, 05:07:59 pm »
I volunteered to do the work. Finding a general contractor in NYC who isn't a thief and does decent work is damn near impossible. It's not going to be all that difficult. Clearing some brush, replacing some rotten decking, and total re-paint. And I work for cheap. I told her all you have to do is feed me and....never mind!  :P :-DD And her typical sassy retort was "can I chose one or the other? Or how about NONE of the above?" Funny girl.  ;D 

In August she has another week off and that will truly be a relaxing vacation.
You call that cheap, most would call that an unacceptably high price. ;D

Compared to the rape and pillage a NYC contractor would charge she is getting a bargain.  :P >:D
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Offline kj7e

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #34343 on: July 05, 2019, 05:19:29 pm »
I would not pay more than $100 for a 5316B even with 1GHz option, maybe up to $180 if it had the OCXO and 1GHz option and was very clean.  No more than $200 unless you really just want it.
 

Offline bitseeker

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #34344 on: July 05, 2019, 05:20:19 pm »
Yeah $100-150 is reasonable with the options.

I like that the 5316A has more alumin(i)um parts than the B. Other than that, they seem pretty much the same. I haven't compared the boards to see what component changes there were, if any.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2019, 05:24:26 pm by bitseeker »
I TEA.
 

Online mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #34345 on: July 05, 2019, 07:12:30 pm »
The rectangular cut-out for the display is done extremely well, wonder how it was made.    (SNIP)   The counter does work (at least in the 50 MHz mode). But this one's really meant as a parts mule.
I would assume it was stamped.
I thought of that, but hobbyists usually don't have that equipment. Reading all the 'Electronics World' from the fifties and sixties I understand that it was not so rare then to build your chassis yourself, and there were also ads for 'Greenlee punches' (I assume we mean the same thing). They are perfect for tube sockets or D shaped holes. But this size?



I've made a great many such panels using just these tools; like with anything worth doing, prep makes all the difference. You start by laying it out with a good rule, Sharpie and a scribe to get perfect lines. You COULD use Dy-Kem Blue if you happen to dabble in lathe work, but Sharpie is a lot cheaper.  ;)

Then you make a ~10mm hole close to each corner, and start nibbling. There ARE electric-powered equivalents to these, but for precise openings they just don't offer enough control. First you nibble the corners square, then start nibbling around the perimeter right next to, but NOT on the scribed line. The closer you get, the less file work you'll have later. Cut as much as you can from the BACK of the work for the cleanest lines; but sometimes you just HAVE TO cut from the front. Make allowances for this when laying out.

The file work is where patience really pays off. you'll use a 12-16" (size of work surface) single-cut mill (type with smooth diagonal cutting edges) bastard (fineness of cut between COARSE and 2nd CUT) file. For big jaggies you'll knock the high points down by push or pull filing towards the BACK of the work. This makes all your burr edges manifest on the back edge. Pull-filing helps to mitigate the file snagging on edges and "hopping" which can scar up the work edges, or worse, the face of the panel. You want to clamp the metal so the vise is as close to the surface you are cutting as possible; this eliminates flex-induced movement of the work that will also cause "hopping".

You may need a smaller file to do the vertical edges of the opening that tend to be much shorter; you need a file 1/3 to 1/2 the width of the edge or so to have room for draw-filing later. In some cases, a square or triangle file is your best choice; as long as it is a single-cut file of reasonably fine pitch, you can interchange them for this work. Just remember that the wider your file's cutting surface, while still allowing room to work, the better the smoothing effect of later draw-filing.

Once you have the edges of the opening within 0.20-0.30mm or so of the scribe line all around, you'll switch to draw-filing to square everything up perfectly. This is done by holding the file perpendicular to the work, and pulling the file from side-to-side. This technique leverages the angled cutting edges to makes a much finer cut that tends to "average-out" the depth of cut across the entire stroke. This is how you make the slightly jagged edges from the nibbler (these will become much less pronounced as you hone your technique) perfectly smooth. The scribe lines show you where you need to concentrate your work to bring everything perfectly square.

Remember to stop and "card" your file frequently with a wire-brush or file card; this keeps it cutting smooth & clean.  :-+

After the opening is perfectly square, you'll switch to either a finish-cut file or sandpaper on a block or emery boards to deburr; your burrs should be very thin and easily smoothed-out, or often are perfectly fine to ignore, thanks to the smoothing effect of draw-filing.  :-+

After that, you flatten out the face of the panel by orbital sanding with a sanding block, or if the piece is small enough, by gluing a full sheet of 220-500 grit to a glass or acrylic sheet and smoothing with an orbital motion prior to priming & painting. Care painting around the edges of the opening really pays off; an even, slightly heavy coating will hide any remaining imperfections.



This video is a good quick & clear primer on files & how to choose & care for them.  :-+

mnem
« Last Edit: July 05, 2019, 07:28:20 pm by mnementh »
 
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Online mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #34346 on: July 05, 2019, 07:24:20 pm »
There are people on eBay who try to sell you a single Tektronix knob for 20 €. On the next listing page was a whole Tektronix scope still for less than that. OK, it wouldn't stay that way, and it was definitely an ugly duckling! But it had some knobs and maybe some other parts like double FETs. I placed a low bid to probably win a parts mule. And got it with 40 cents to spare!

   So here is my scope #24, a Tektronix T932. I guess it was aimed at repair shops, 'economy' class. (SNIP) It is not cleaned, and I think I will not clean it, so it doesn't get any ideas about being spared.  :-DD

It still seems a shame to part out a working Tek scope so heartlessly; I suppose you COULD rob the knobs off it for a worthier machine, then replace them with 3DP equivalents on this poor unloved ugly duckling.
;)

mnem
I actually kindof like it, so :P
 

Offline bd139

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #34347 on: July 05, 2019, 07:30:16 pm »
@mnem: That nibbler is quite frankly the best mechanical tool on the planet. I have one. I paid to have one made in the USA shipped to me as the ones here are all shitty ones from China.

No TE for me tonight. My elderly neighbour gave me a bottle of wine for unjamming her door and I just necked the whole thing thinking I was half the age I am again. Alas it merely acted as anaesthetic so netflix and nap it is!  :palm:

On the T932 etc, I rather like the appearance. We had a couple at university, however abandoned as HP turned up with shiny digital ones at the time and we were all technology obsessed then. Literally at graduation I bought the hottest import at time; the minidisc player. Now I think about the machine from the perspective of the mindset of those who put it together. There's a weird mental connection between an analogue scope and all the trickery for me, regardless of the provenance.

Edit: decided I'm on a Tektronix 454 mission. Wish me luck.

Edit 2: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/153554170494 <-- anyone in UK fancy some storage action?
« Last Edit: July 05, 2019, 07:34:22 pm by bd139 »
 

Offline Specmaster

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #34348 on: July 05, 2019, 07:53:01 pm »
I think that the T932 looks OK personally, controls are spaced out well and are ideal for the person, like me with larger then normal hands, I find that very few computer are comfortable to use because I have to bend my fingers in order to operate the buttons and after a while they ache. I recently had to sell a video camera for the same reason.

As to the Tek 454, again I approve, its controls are well spaced and thus suitable for the larger framed people to use as well as being a perfectly usable, piece of kit, I say go for it  :-+
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Online mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #34349 on: July 05, 2019, 08:06:19 pm »
@mnem: That nibbler is quite frankly the best mechanical tool on the planet. I have one. I paid to have one made in the USA shipped to me as the ones here are all shitty ones from China.

No TE for me tonight. My elderly neighbour gave me a bottle of wine for unjamming her door and I just necked the whole thing thinking I was half the age I am again. Alas it merely acted as anaesthetic so netflix and nap it is!  :palm:

On the T932 etc, I rather like the appearance. We had a couple at university, however abandoned as HP turned up with shiny digital ones at the time and we were all technology obsessed then. Literally at graduation I bought the hottest import at time; the minidisc player. Now I think about the machine from the perspective of the mindset of those who put it together. There's a weird mental connection between an analogue scope and all the trickery for me, regardless of the provenance.

Edit: decided I'm on a Tektronix 454 mission. Wish me luck.

Edit 2: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/153554170494 <-- anyone in UK fancy some storage action?

LOL... I've worn out a couple dozen of good ones over the 40 or so years I've been doing this kind of work. Used to be Radio Shack had them made by Nicholson; they cost about $5 more per set but were exponentially better quality. That died in the late 80s, when they started importing all those cheap "Color Computers" from Thailand & Hong Kong.

The Adel ones are a lot easier on your hand, as the pull is in line with the greater strength of your grip. But the return spring thing on top of the die scratches the hell out of your work. Same with the C&D and GC Electronics ones, though they will actually work without it and the manufacturing quality is much better than the Chinese ones. There used to be several Japanese-made versions of Tool & Die making quality; they were around $100 a set but worth every penny and came with round, square & triangular dies/plates. They've been pretty much unobtanium since the Y2K bug was a thing.

Good luck on the 454; hope you find an example that's as good as Vera. They're definitely a machine that earns a place in your heart. :-+

mnem
Google them. You'll see what I mean.

« Last Edit: July 05, 2019, 08:08:49 pm by mnementh »
 


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