Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[bd139]

To reply to a couple of points:

1. 4K TV I'd have to sit closer or get a much bigger (65" TV) to be able to resolve the extra pixels. Doesn't make a lot of sense doing that.
2. Roku. No. We're an iOS household (most of us have an iPhone and an iPad or a PC and iTunes). In fact the Apple TV works really damn well with seamless integration with iOS which it uses as a remote control. The problem is with the stupid HDCP standard and content providers that mandate it. After reading about the periodic upgrade-a-thon required to keep up with new evolving codecs which benefit me precisely in ZERO ways then I'm not entering the game.
3. Media PC's. Hell no. I wanted a tool not another damn PC to look after and unfuck every so often.
4. VPNs for content. Can't be arsed. Also then you find out that iPlayer doesn't work because it thinks you are in the US.
5. Ad blockers. Can't be arsed. I use uBlock origin on PC if I need one.
6. Smart TV is landfill in a few years. I would pay good money for a dumb TV with Freeview HD and a decent HDMI implementation. They don't exist.

After careful evaluation, the net gain was slightly under zero so it's being returned.

[Zucca]

....
6. Smart TV is landfill in a few years. I would pay good money for a dumb TV with Freeview HD and a decent HDMI implementation. They don't exist.

After careful evaluation, the net gain was slightly under zero so it's being returned.

return it, zero tolerance. That's why I buy always used TV and then let them play with some stupid Firestick, chromecast or a very cheap, small, silent used home media PC.

Furthermore right now I have no TV. Life is good. Youtube and this thread are giving all the entertainment I need. Thank you guys!
Well not so easy, now SWMBO wants netflix. I have a big white wall, so I will buy a used projector and let Firestick do the rest.

Until she complains again so I have to buy a 600Euro TV no sense.

[nfmax]

It is now 25 years since I got rid of my last TV. I don't miss it

[Zucca]

The good analog times without internet... life was very different.

[tggzzz]

Edit: just did calculations. If I get a 43" screen and I'm 9 foot away I can't tell the difference between 4k and 1080p so fuck it, I'll just buy a 43" 1080p non Samshit dumb TV and be done with it. Apparently I need a 65" screen to make a difference there and it won't fit in the hole.

You surprise me.

I have a similar setup to that, and on certain programs the difference is clear - provided you have the right surce material. One example that sticks in my mind is the outdoor shots of Los Angeles in the Amazon version of Lucifer are stunning. My feeling is the Netflix version is slightly less clear.

Before I got my current TV, my concern was more that old media on a large screen would look too blocky to be pleasant. I was wrong; it is satisfactory. A pleasant surprise is that even 25yo TV shows on DVD (e.g. The West Wing) were better, since I was able top move away from SCART to HDMI interconnections.

33 years ago I remember seeing the future. At Futuroscope near Poitiers I saw three different types of projected media: normal, IMAX, and 70mm/60fps (I believe an early version of ShowScan). The last was gobsmacking, especially with aerial shots over the Pacific north west seashore and mountains.

Now I've been taking stereoscopic snapshots since 1984, so I know and love the reality of a decent (or even moderately good) stereo picture. Given the choice between a 3D TV (remember those!) and more resolution, I'd go for more resolution every time.

Summary: if you have good source material and normal eyesight, 4K is noticeably better.

[tautech]

To reply to a couple of points:

2. Roku. No. We're an iOS household (most of us have an iPhone and an iPad or a PC and iTunes). In fact the Apple TV works really damn well with seamless integration with iOS which it uses as a remote control. The problem is with the stupid HDCP standard and content providers that mandate it. After reading about the periodic upgrade-a-thon required to keep up with new evolving codecs which benefit me precisely in ZERO ways then I'm not entering the game.

iOS here too except for PC's and we hand over to the Apple TV frequently if watching 'pay for view' sport that we can usually find streamed online.

4. VPNs for content. Can't be arsed. Also then you find out that iPlayer doesn't work because it thinks you are in the US.

Sometimes use a VPN too but it's more of a PITA to use with an iOS than with a PC. Again, handed over to Screen Mirroring via Apple TV.

[med6753]

When I made the leap from analog to HD it was 720p and I found the difference so amazing that I've stuck with it. Yea, I've seen the 4K and curved screens and all that nonsense but to these old eyes big fucking deal. I'll stick with what I have.

My biggest beef with my set up is viewing YouTube thru my Firestick. I can't get rid of the blasted commercials. There's a program you could download to eliminate them but it doesn't work. On the computer Ad Block Plus with Firefox does the job but that's not an option on the Firestick.


 

[Specmaster]

The good analog times without internet... life was very different.

You're right, TV shut down for the night and the display disappeared to a little dot on the screen before switching off and everyone went to bed for the night  Nowadays, Internet takes over and people sit up watching / shopping / playing on line before going to bed much later 

[bd139]

When I made the leap from analog to HD it was 720p and I found the difference so amazing that I've stuck with it. Yea, I've seen the 4K and curved screens and all that nonsense but to these old eyes big fucking deal. I'll stick with what I have.

My biggest beef with my set up is viewing YouTube thru my Firestick. I can't get rid of the blasted commercials. There's a program you could download to eliminate them but it doesn't work. On the computer Ad Block Plus with Firefox does the job but that's not an option on the Firestick.

You can get rid of the ads with a "pi hole" https://pi-hole.net/ ... but that's another power consuming wart in the house. Although med, it'll probably cost about half an hour of 535A runtime every year hahaha 

As for being able to see 4K, I have 20/20 vision still by some miracle and it's not actually possible to perceive any improvement over a 1080p screen that is 9 feet away from me unless it's approximately 65" diagonal. Most of the perceived improvement comes from the dynamic range and only if it's an OLED TV as the number of lit elements is approximately 4x the 1080p. And on top of that a lot of the improvements are only visible in the show room as they turn the things on "factory mode" which makes everything look like telly tubby land with some carefully crafted 4k streams. By the time you've turned the glaring face-dickery down it looks about the same as a normal Full HD unit. And if it's a cheap arse backlit unit which is all I'm willing to pay for then not worth it.

....
6. Smart TV is landfill in a few years. I would pay good money for a dumb TV with Freeview HD and a decent HDMI implementation. They don't exist.

After careful evaluation, the net gain was slightly under zero so it's being returned.

return it, zero tolerance. That's why I buy always used TV and then let them play with some stupid Firestick, chromecast or a very cheap, small, silent used home media PC.

Furthermore right now I have no TV. Life is good. Youtube and this thread are giving all the entertainment I need. Thank you guys!
Well not so easy, now SWMBO wants netflix. I have a big white wall, so I will buy a used projector and let Firestick do the rest.

Until she complains again so I have to buy a 600Euro TV no sense.

This. I'd really like to get rid of the TV myself. It's large and it attracts usage as background noise and distraction when in fact we're a pretty creative family and all it does is suck that away. Watching something should be a chosen activity not a habit.

For me it was looking like a £500 spend to gain what exactly?

Anyway just dropped the Apple TV off at the post office on the way in and it's now gone!

Edit: in line with the thread, I will use the money for test gear 

[med6753]

Over here when stations shut down overnight they didn't turn off the transmitters instead they threw up the famous Indian Test Pattern.

The practice remained in effect until the 1970's - 1980's.

[bd139]

We had a variation of the following called Test Card F. I prefer this version (Mighty Boosh)

[beanflying]

Over here when stations shut down overnight they didn't turn off the transmitters instead they threw up the famous Indian Test Pattern.

The practice remained in effect until the 1970's - 1980's.

Our Two stations when growing up did the National Anthem thing about midnight or even before then test patterns until 6am. We got a third channel when I was about 12 or 13. No Cable here until the mid 1990's and then it was expensive.

[tggzzz]

When I made the leap from analog to HD it was 720p and I found the difference so amazing that I've stuck with it. Yea, I've seen the 4K and curved screens and all that nonsense but to these old eyes big fucking deal. I'll stick with what I have.

Curved screens always will be nonsense - as anybody that had to use non-flat computer monitors in the 90s will remember. The basic problem is that you cannot orient a curved screen to eliminate an annoying reflection.

As for sticking with what you have - I tend to agree.

When my previous TV died, I got a conventional 28" widescreen TV because the HDTV standards were still in flux - sh1t timing on behalf of that deceased TV

Only when that 28" TV died did I get my current 43" LCD "smart" TV. I did get 4K since the cost difference was trivial and I hoped source material would become available - which it has over WiFi and the net.

[med6753]

Sometimes you hear stuff on the scanner that makes you go  or just laugh.

A domestic incident involving a grand mother and grand daughter. Apparently grandma is beating her with a broom. 

[Specmaster]

Edit: just did calculations. If I get a 43" screen and I'm 9 foot away I can't tell the difference between 4k and 1080p so fuck it, I'll just buy a 43" 1080p non Samshit dumb TV and be done with it. Apparently I need a 65" screen to make a difference there and it won't fit in the hole.

You surprise me.

I have a similar setup to that, and on certain programs the difference is clear - provided you have the right surce material. One example that sticks in my mind is the outdoor shots of Los Angeles in the Amazon version of Lucifer are stunning. My feeling is the Netflix version is slightly less clear.

Before I got my current TV, my concern was more that old media on a large screen would look too blocky to be pleasant. I was wrong; it is satisfactory. A pleasant surprise is that even 25yo TV shows on DVD (e.g. The West Wing) were better, since I was able top move away from SCART to HDMI interconnections.

33 years ago I remember seeing the future. At Futuroscope near Poitiers I saw three different types of projected media: normal, IMAX, and 70mm/60fps (I believe an early version of ShowScan). The last was gobsmacking, especially with aerial shots over the Pacific north west seashore and mountains.

Now I've been taking stereoscopic snapshots since 1984, so I know and love the reality of a decent (or even moderately good) stereo picture. Given the choice between a 3D TV (remember those!) and more resolution, I'd go for more resolution every time.

Summary: if you have good source material and normal eyesight, 4K is noticeably better.

Totes in tune with you, a 4k TV will ONLY be any better if you are feeding it with 4K media, it does not upscale. So much of new TV programs are now being shot in 4K or even higher and there are even dedicated 4K channels on both Sky and Virgin that it does now at last make perfect sense to invest in a suitable TV. Even on a 32" screen, the différance is much more noticeable, colours are richer, and the over image is much sharper and general smoother on a 4K feed. Bd, you really need to compare apples with apples, nip into a local Currys store and watch 2 tv's side by side and make sure 1 is a normal TV and the other 4K and watch the same programme content, side by side comparison

[tggzzz]

As for being able to see 4K, I have 20/20 vision still by some miracle and it's not actually possible to perceive any improvement over a 1080p screen that is 9 feet away from me unless it's approximately 65" diagonal. Most of the perceived improvement comes from the dynamic range and only if it's an OLED TV as the number of lit elements is approximately 4x the 1080p. And on top of that a lot of the improvements are only visible in the show room as they turn the things on "factory mode" which makes everything look like telly tubby land with some carefully crafted 4k streams. By the time you've turned the glaring face-dickery down it looks about the same as a normal Full HD unit. And if it's a cheap arse backlit unit which is all I'm willing to pay for then not worth it.

Well, I have good angular resolution, a little astigmatism apparent when looking at the night sky, need +1D glasses to see the TV.

With the right source material, I can see a difference. In this case "right" means important small details, well illuminated - e.g. aerial views of crashing waves, or woodlands, or LA traffic jams Most material isn't "right" in that sense.

As for showrooms, I ignore that specially-crafted off-air demo stuff, since I'm only interested in what I can view at home.

[med6753]

Over here when stations shut down overnight they didn't turn off the transmitters instead they threw up the famous Indian Test Pattern.

The practice remained in effect until the 1970's - 1980's.

Our Two stations when growing up did the National Anthem thing about midnight or even before then test patterns until 6am. We got a third channel when I was about 12 or 13. No Cable here until the mid 1990's and then it was expensive.

Growing up in the NYC Metro Area we enjoyed an impressive number of stations to watch. Let's see, it was....

2, 4, 5, 7, 9, 11, and 13. Channels 2, 4, 7 were Networks (CBS, NBC, ABC). Channels 5, 9, 11 were independents. Channel 13 was public service. 

[BU508A]

In 1989 I've bought a Loewe Profi P115 TV and I still have it. I like it really for some nostalgic reasons.

Example (not mine):


Regarding ad-blocker: as earlier mentioned by bd139: I'm using this pi-hole DNS filter. Very effective.
And the advantage is: it cannot be detected from websites using ad-blocker detecting techniques.
It can be integrated transparently. If, for example, you are having guests which wants to login to your WLAN,
they aren't aware, that there is an ad-blocker working in the background.
There is one thing you should do, when you are going to use the pi-hole:
- configure it for daily updates AND do a reboot every 24h of the raspberry pi
This increases much the stability. I'm running it now for two years and in this time I was forced
only once to boot it manually because the DNS service has stopped with a weird error message.

Edit:
If you are interested in a teardown and the pictures, let me know. 

[McBryce]

When I made the leap from analog to HD it was 720p and I found the difference so amazing that I've stuck with it. Yea, I've seen the 4K and curved screens and all that nonsense but to these old eyes big fucking deal. I'll stick with what I have.

Curved screens always will be nonsense - as anybody that had to use non-flat computer monitors in the 90s will remember. The basic problem is that you cannot orient a curved screen to eliminate an annoying reflection.

As for sticking with what you have - I tend to agree.

When my previous TV died, I got a conventional 28" widescreen TV because the HDTV standards were still in flux - sh1t timing on behalf of that deceased TV

Only when that 28" TV died did I get my current 43" LCD "smart" TV. I did get 4K since the cost difference was trivial and I hoped source material would become available - which it has over WiFi and the net.

90's monitors had a convex curve, causing the reflection problems. Modern curved screens are concave which is completely different when it comes to reflections. However, I still think curved TVs are a stupid idea because the screen is still only correct for one person in the room. Curved monitors on the other hand are great, especially if (like me) you use a 32in screen.

McBryce.

[Zucca]

Regarding ad-blocker: as earlier mentioned by bd139: I'm using this pi-hole DNS filter. Very effective.
And the advantage is: it cannot be detected from websites using ad-blocker detecting techniques.
It can be integrated transparently. If, for example, you are having guests which wants to login to your WLAN,
they aren't aware, that there is an ad-blocker working in the background.
There is one thing you should do, when you are going to use the pi-hole:
- configure it for daily updates AND do a reboot every 24h of the raspberry pi
This increases much the stability. I'm running it now for two years and in this time I was forced
only once to boot it manually because the DNS service has stopped with a weird error message.

pfSense with pfBlockerNG here, works good but I have to whitelist one website every week. bah...

[tggzzz]

When I made the leap from analog to HD it was 720p and I found the difference so amazing that I've stuck with it. Yea, I've seen the 4K and curved screens and all that nonsense but to these old eyes big fucking deal. I'll stick with what I have.

Curved screens always will be nonsense - as anybody that had to use non-flat computer monitors in the 90s will remember. The basic problem is that you cannot orient a curved screen to eliminate an annoying reflection.

As for sticking with what you have - I tend to agree.

When my previous TV died, I got a conventional 28" widescreen TV because the HDTV standards were still in flux - sh1t timing on behalf of that deceased TV

Only when that 28" TV died did I get my current 43" LCD "smart" TV. I did get 4K since the cost difference was trivial and I hoped source material would become available - which it has over WiFi and the net.

90's monitors had a convex curve, causing the reflection problems. Modern curved screens are concave which is completely different when it comes to reflections.

True, and partially true.

The reflections on a concave screen are more likely to be localised on the screen. If there is a reflection on a concave screen, then the best you can do is move it around - the same as with a convex screen.

However, I still think curved TVs are a stupid idea because the screen is still only correct for one person in the room. Curved monitors on the other hand are great, especially if (like me) you use a 32in screen.

That is rather different to a TV. TVs are a long way away, are intended to be seen from anywhere in a well-lit room, and usually there isn't much option as to where they are placed in the room. Monitors are close to the eye, small, and can often be placed in a suitable location away from light sources in a less well-lit room.

[capt bullshot]

There is one thing you should do, when you are going to use the pi-hole:
- configure it for daily updates AND do a reboot every 24h of the raspberry pi
This increases much the stability. I'm running it now for two years and in this time I was forced
only once to boot it manually because the DNS service has stopped with a weird error message.

I'm running the pi-hole as an additional service on my "it's there anyway and always-on anyway" linux box. For this case, the pi-hole installer is an asshole rather than a pi-hole, because it messed up the network configuration. Once you got around this, and did some manual configuration, it just works.

[Specmaster]

What you mean you need to run this pi-hole software on a separate raspberry Pi? Can't it be run on the local PC then?

[BU508A]

What you mean you need to run this pi-hole software on a separate raspberry Pi? Can't it be run on the local PC then?

Sure it can. But since my PC isn't running 24/7 and I wanted to use it with other devices, I've decided to use a raspbery pi to run it.

[Zucca]

TEA Alert: Ender 5, used 3 months for 250Euro.
Seller got a markforged and don't need it anymore.

I will do the 2019 upgrade so about 75Euro more and 2 months until the corona package will be here.

Are 250 too much?

SWMBO seems to give green light this time.