Author Topic: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread  (Read 4640998 times)

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #54400 on: April 02, 2020, 05:30:49 pm »
Well, the 1998 RS catalogue lists the Fluke 87 III at £239, the 8060A at £429, and the AVO 8 at £499.

My PM99 II was around £1700, couldn't find my TDS420A, but lower models like the 310 and stuff were listed at well over £2k. Oh, and my Fluke 8840A would have cost me around £110.

All prices are exclusive of vodka and tonic of course... which if memory serves was at 17.5% back then.


My suspicion regarding the continued availability of otherwise 'obsolete' test instruments at high prices is that many of them were likely written into test procedures for things made for the military or perhaps medical fields - instances where it would be far less costly overall to pay 2 or 3 times the price of a contemporary instrument to get the manufacturer to basically make a one-off of an otherwise discontinued piece of gear that had died than to select and qualify a newer instrument that had never been used in that particular test setup before, then spend who knows how much time, effort and $$ getting approvals run up and down the chain before being able to use it.  For instance, the 5245L counter first appeared in the 1963 catalog, and made its last appearance in the 1981 issue.  And I recall seeing the 5340A in, IIRC, early 1990s era catalogs available on a "we'll build you another one if you reeeeallly want it, but it's gonna cost you" basis.

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #54401 on: April 02, 2020, 05:49:31 pm »
You're almost certainly correct on that.

Noted a typo in my post that you quoted, now corrected...

Does make one wonder how this policy might have to change, going foward, given the ubiquity of smd populated boards being made on automated rigs.

Though I suppose in theory it would be possible to make one-off or low volumes of obsolete stuff, but I'm sure it would be contingent on the availability of the original layout programs, especially for the more complex gear.
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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #54402 on: April 02, 2020, 06:14:38 pm »
Just had a good ebay win. Got the 160m + 2nd RX antenna option kit for the K2 off ebay unbuilt for less than half the retail price :-+. That gives it AM broadcast band RX as well which is handy. Also more importantly something to build / do / fettle with :-DD
 
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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #54403 on: April 02, 2020, 07:18:23 pm »
different note.
https://youtu.be/a19OpQfwB2w

fabulous wood working skills.

He does some really great projects without any regard for time taken  :)
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Offline BU508A

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #54404 on: April 02, 2020, 07:27:50 pm »
Just had a good ebay win. Got the 160m + 2nd RX antenna option kit for the K2 off ebay unbuilt for less than half the retail price :-+. That gives it AM broadcast band RX as well which is handy. Also more importantly something to build / do / fettle with :-DD

Well, you are not alone.  :D  I scored a few minutes ago three very nice units:

- a Fluke 732A voltage reference - 330 Euro
- a Keithley 155 Null Detector - 300 Euro
- a Fluke 750A reference divider - 255 Euro

 :-+  ;D  :-+  ;D :-+  ;D  :-+  ;D :-+  ;D  :-+  ;D :-+  ;D  :-+  ;D :-+  ;D  :-+  ;D

Here are some generic pictures of the devices:

Fluke 732A


Keithley 155


Fluke 750A


“Chaos is found in greatest abundance wherever order is being sought. It always defeats order, because it is better organized.”            - Terry Pratchett -
 
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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #54405 on: April 02, 2020, 07:32:30 pm »
You did better than I did by a mile :-DD
 
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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #54406 on: April 02, 2020, 07:39:17 pm »
Well, the Manson EP-613 is on the healing bench, and of course it's now behaving itself.   >:(

I did blow what looked like half a hamster cage of sawdust and various other debris out of it when I took the top cover off, but it must have been an epic coincidence for one of those pieces of debris to have the correct electrical characteristics and be in the correct place to cause the oddball fault.   :-//


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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #54407 on: April 02, 2020, 07:39:39 pm »
I've had the Fluke 8505A burning in all day after resetting the zero reference on each DCV range and I have some results and they are impressive.  8) I use both my AD584-M references as well as had a Fluke 8800A connected just a control and a reference. Here are the results:


AD584-M Ref 1        Fluke 8505A          Fluke 8800A
(Stated voltage)

2.50066V                   2.50068V              2.5006V

4.99794V                   4.99796V              4.9979V

7.50011V                   7.50007V              7.5001V

9.99691V                   9.99689V              9.9968V


AD584-M Ref 2        Fluke 8505A          Fluke 8800A
(Stated voltage)

2.49937V                  2.49939V               2.4994V

5.00030V                  5.00031V               5.0003V

7.50042V                  7.50039V               7.5004V

10.00096V                10.00093V             10.0009V


Ambient temp is 75 F with a R/H of 33%. This 8505A hasn't been calibrated since 2003 and clearly it is fine as is. But what I don't understand is why the zero references were off.  :-// I suspect that the Ohms function zero ref is probably off too but I haven't checked that yet. That's tomorrow's project. And this puts the last nail in the coffin that the Siglent SDM 3055 is clearly not properly calibrated. It will read consistently low as I have demonstrated in the past but the nay-sayers insist I'm wrong.  And I guess Siglent is not going to release a method for cal tweak as originally promised so I may have to send it to a cal lab at my expense.   :rant:

Here's 7 digits of goodness. Will I ever actually upgrade to 7.5 digits? Never say never I guess.   :-DD

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Offline BU508A

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #54408 on: April 02, 2020, 07:40:15 pm »
You did better than I did by a mile :-DD

My grandmother used to say: "Das Glück ist ein Rindvieh und sucht sich seinesgleichen."  :-DD
(Luck is a cow and it is looking out for it's own kind - in the sense of "Fortune favours fools")
“Chaos is found in greatest abundance wherever order is being sought. It always defeats order, because it is better organized.”            - Terry Pratchett -
 
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Offline BU508A

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #54409 on: April 02, 2020, 07:44:40 pm »
I've had the Fluke 8505A burning in all day after resetting the zero reference on each DCV range and I have some results and they are impressive.  8) I use both my AD584-M references as well as had a Fluke 8800A connected just a control and a reference. Here are the results:


AD584-M Ref 1        Fluke 8505A          Fluke 8800A
(Stated voltage)

2.50066V                   2.50068V              2.5006V

4.99794V                   4.99796V              4.9979V

7.50011V                   7.50007V              7.5001V

9.99691V                   9.99689V              9.9968V


AD584-M Ref 2        Fluke 8505A          Fluke 8800A
(Stated voltage)

2.49937V                  2.49939V               2.4994V

5.00030V                  5.00031V               5.0003V

7.50042V                  7.50039V               7.5004V

10.00096V                10.00093V             10.0009V


Ambient temp is 75 F with a R/H of 33%. This 8505A hasn't been calibrated since 2003 and clearly it is fine as is. But what I don't understand is why the zero references were off.  :-// I suspect that the Ohms function zero ref is probably off too but I haven't checked that yet. That's tomorrow's project. And this puts the last nail in the coffin that the Siglent SDM 3055 is clearly not properly calibrated. It will read consistently low as I have demonstrated in the past but the nay-sayers insist I'm wrong.  And I guess Siglent is not going to release a method for cal tweak as originally promised so I may have to send it to a cal lab at my expense.   :rant:

Very nice!  :-+  I think, we have now a voltnut smurf with us.  :-DD


Quote
Here's 7 digits of goodness. Will I ever actually upgrade to 7.5 digits? Never say never I guess.   :-DD


Why not? As long as you can paint it blue, I cannot see any obstacles.  :-DD

“Chaos is found in greatest abundance wherever order is being sought. It always defeats order, because it is better organized.”            - Terry Pratchett -
 
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Offline SilverSolder

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #54410 on: April 02, 2020, 07:50:15 pm »

[...]

Here's 7 digits of goodness. Will I ever actually upgrade to 7.5 digits? Never say never I guess.   :-DD


Nice results!

To turn on the 7.5 digit mode, just press the "Avg" button

The extra digit will appear in the part of the display that normally has the exponent.
 
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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #54411 on: April 02, 2020, 07:52:07 pm »
Welcome to the voltnuttery, med*!   ;)

I'm sure you'll get the ohms ranges right soon.   :-/O   :)






BTW, your 10.00093 reading is still 6 1/2 digit -the leading one is the 1/2 digit.   >:D
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Offline med6753

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #54412 on: April 02, 2020, 07:54:04 pm »

[...]

Here's 7 digits of goodness. Will I ever actually upgrade to 7.5 digits? Never say never I guess.   :-DD


Nice results!

To turn on the 7.5 digit mode, just press the "Avg" button

The extra digit will appear in the part of the display that normally has the exponent.

Yep, I've been playing around with that too.  :-+
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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #54413 on: April 02, 2020, 08:01:47 pm »
And this puts the last nail in the coffin that the Siglent SDM 3055 is clearly not properly calibrated. It will read consistently low as I have demonstrated in the past but the nay-sayers insist I'm wrong.  And I guess Siglent is not going to release a method for cal tweak as originally promised so I may have to send it to a cal lab at my expense.   
Don't be too hasty.  :P
I've helped successful user adjustments be made (supplied the necessary files and docs) for SDM3065X however the process is not yet publicly documented. It involved new FW and as yet I dunno if the existing SDM3055 FW supports it.
Behind the scenes Siglent are pretty nervous of everyone adjusting their bench meters especially while they still have a valid Cal cert.
I'll ask some questions if there is current user Cal support for the 3055 or check one of the new ones that have just arrived into stock.
Due to the factory sensitivity we should do this privately via PM or email Med.  ;)
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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #54414 on: April 02, 2020, 08:04:29 pm »
I'm not sure why it's not publically documented. 34401A for example is well documented here: https://www.keysight.com/upload/cmc_upload/All/34401-90013-mla2.pdf
 
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Offline med6753

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #54415 on: April 02, 2020, 08:05:24 pm »
And this puts the last nail in the coffin that the Siglent SDM 3055 is clearly not properly calibrated. It will read consistently low as I have demonstrated in the past but the nay-sayers insist I'm wrong.  And I guess Siglent is not going to release a method for cal tweak as originally promised so I may have to send it to a cal lab at my expense.   
Don't be too hasty.  :P
I've helped successful user adjustments be made (supplied the necessary files and docs) for SDM3065X however the process is not yet publicly documented. It involved new FW and as yet I dunno if the existing SDM3055 FW supports it.
Behind the scenes Siglent are pretty nervous of everyone adjusting their bench meters especially while they still have a valid Cal cert.
I'll ask some questions if there is current user Cal support for the 3055 or check one of the new ones that have just arrived into stock.
Due to the factory sensitivity we should do this privately via PM or email Med.  ;)

Okey Dokey. I just figured I'd shake the tree a little bit because there hasn't been an update in quite a while.  :-/O
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Offline med6753

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #54416 on: April 02, 2020, 08:11:31 pm »
I'm not sure why it's not publically documented. 34401A for example is well documented here: https://www.keysight.com/upload/cmc_upload/All/34401-90013-mla2.pdf

The procedure for full calibration is documented. What I want to do is just minor tweaks of some of the data in memory. Supposedly it's possible.

Edit...similar to what I did today to edit and reset the zero references in the 8505A memory.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2020, 08:14:12 pm by med6753 »
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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #54417 on: April 02, 2020, 08:12:29 pm »
Ah ok. Surely you can poke a single cal value somewhere slightly? I quite enjoyed doing that on my old 3478A after I blew the cal data away  :-DD
 
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Offline med6753

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #54418 on: April 02, 2020, 08:15:16 pm »
Ah ok. Surely you can poke a single cal value somewhere slightly? I quite enjoyed doing that on my old 3478A after I blew the cal data away  :-DD

That's exactly what I'm trying to find out.
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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #54419 on: April 02, 2020, 08:15:59 pm »
Talking about volt-nuttery: anyone (confirmed volt-nuts only) that might be interested in playing around with a 34420A. Shipping is free. Playing with it is free. Shipping back is free. EU only.
 
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Offline URI

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #54420 on: April 02, 2020, 08:16:20 pm »
Good news from the repair stack:

I couldn't wait for the strain relief being delivered.
So I just isolated the fuse holder solder lugs and checked PE and for isolation between housing (GND) and live/neutral.
After being sure the push on the 6284As button wouldn't electrocute me, I plugged it to mains and switched it on.

The inside fan started working, the meter showed a random voltage value (because of the adjustment knob being in a random position) and nothing let out magic smoke.   :-+
I connected my Fluke 87V to "Output" and "Com" and could adjust any Voltage between +/-51,6V with 1mV resolution using the fine adjustment knob.

Conclusion: my recently acquired 6284A power supply/amplifier isn't for parts as offered, it's fully alive!    ;D
I feel the 65,-€ shipped were well invested in these "parts".   ;)

The seller stated that it would show the adjusted voltage on the built in meter perfectly but no voltage could be measured at the output.

Well....
The output voltage is there -on the "Output" and "Com" binding post.   :-+
It's not there measuring on the "Output" and "Gnd" binding posts.    :palm:    :-DD

I think the seller (who doesn't seem to be into TE btw.) just picked the wrong pairs of binding posts.
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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #54421 on: April 02, 2020, 08:17:46 pm »
And this puts the last nail in the coffin that the Siglent SDM 3055 is clearly not properly calibrated. It will read consistently low as I have demonstrated in the past but the nay-sayers insist I'm wrong.  And I guess Siglent is not going to release a method for cal tweak as originally promised so I may have to send it to a cal lab at my expense.   
Don't be too hasty.  :P
I've helped successful user adjustments be made (supplied the necessary files and docs) for SDM3065X however the process is not yet publicly documented. It involved new FW and as yet I dunno if the existing SDM3055 FW supports it.
Behind the scenes Siglent are pretty nervous of everyone adjusting their bench meters especially while they still have a valid Cal cert.
I'll ask some questions if there is current user Cal support for the 3055 or check one of the new ones that have just arrived into stock.
Due to the factory sensitivity we should do this privately via PM or email Med.  ;)

Okey Dokey. I just figured I'd shake the tree a little bit because there hasn't been an update in quite a while.  :-/O
:) Done that myself just to get where we have thus far.
Might be a good project for tonight to see if the Cal commands work with 3055.

What we must have as 'the fall back position' is the original Cal file and for the 3065X done recently it was supplied by the factory and tied of course to the SN# however there's apparently is a way to retrieve it from the unit too.
Few other things to do today first........

I'm not sure why it's not publically documented. 34401A for example is well documented here: https://www.keysight.com/upload/cmc_upload/All/34401-90013-mla2.pdf

The procedure for full calibration is documented. What I want to do is just minor tweaks of some of the data in memory. Supposedly it's possible.
The worry is existing (current) Cal will be rendered null and void. Once the existing Cal is expired the specified drift values take over as the accuracy guide. If they are not met then Use Cal with a known checked standard is then appropriate IMO.
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Online bd139

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #54422 on: April 02, 2020, 08:20:52 pm »
That's one reason there's a cal count marker. That's recorded on the cal cert. Comes back with a different number, "get tae fuck"  :-DD.

Although looking at the stupid things people try and get away with I'm sympathetic towards hiding it away.
 

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #54423 on: April 02, 2020, 08:21:43 pm »
Talking about volt-nuttery: anyone (confirmed volt-nuts only) that might be interested in playing around with a 34420A. Shipping is free. Playing with it is free. Shipping back is free. EU only.

Oh man, you're stressing me.   :scared:
I'd like to have one but these are offered in a price range I can't explain to my wife...    :-DD
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Offline med6753

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #54424 on: April 02, 2020, 08:23:24 pm »
That's one reason there's a cal count marker. That's recorded on the cal cert. Comes back with a different number, "get tae fuck"  :-DD.

Although looking at the stupid things people try and get away with I'm sympathetic towards hiding it away.

But I think mine is out of the warranty period anyway so who gives a rat's ass?  :-//
An old gray beard with an attitude.
 
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