Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[mnementh]

Thanks a lot for the offer, but I need parts that appear on the NASA parts list. I am builing an USOs that is supposed to be space qualified, so a lot of parts are not even allowed. So for the types, that are 2N2222, 2N2857, 2N2848, 2N3866, ...
really retro, I know. Other parts may be even better, but you know the space buerocrats.

Is it possible, that you could post this parts list here? Just out of curiousity.

Thanks.

Yeah, why not. The link is here:
https://nepp.nasa.gov/npsl/

It also has links to the European and Japanese Space Agency Lists. Dont be surprised that some parts are older than you

Who still manufactures those devices to those Mil-Spec standards...?  To get that rating is more than just final parts testing; it's a whole process, from beginning to end that has to be maintained in closed-loop management to ensure the part is sufficiently abuse-tolerant.

After that, there's a whole nuther long involved process in the procurement aspect; from storage conditions to static-protection to chain-of-custody at every step of the part's handling to ensure it ARRIVES to the assembler without degradation. The last one left that I knew of back in the day was Fairchild; to my knowledge they no longer have US-based production facilities so would not qualify from the security aspect of that process control...?

mnem
*just me fulminating at the mind again...*

[med6753]

I think if we knew the real truth that a lot of MIL spec hardware contains Chinese sourced parts. 

[xrunner]

Returned the Heathkit IG-18 sine / square wave generator to the owner this morning. I wanted to show him the sine wave output amplitude as related to the Int. / Ext. 600 ohm termination - I asked if I could use his scope. He said yea sure but it hasn't been on in years. I was able to use it but the controls were very dirty, as was the whole unit. Really filthy.

I asked him, if the scope worked well, would he use it? He said he would. So now, I have another project - restoring a Kikusui 20 MHz scope to full operation. I think it just needs a little TLC, no - a lot. Check the pics. One of the dirtiest scopes I've seen in a long while. Right now the cover is off and its airing-out on the front porch. 

[med6753]

Holy crap, that is F....ing nasty. 

[bd139]

Mmmm sticky!

[mnementh]

I hate seeing this sort of shit     

you can sold fixe that with special aluminium welding rods

Probably not. That's a die casting and the aluminium alloy used for die casting has a lot of silicon in it. It makes it expand ever so slightly as it freezes - which is great for die casting, but lousy for welding. When welding it as it all freezes the base casting metal expands, the filler metal shrinks and the whole thing either bends out of shape or in extreme cases just cracks again.

You can "stitch" cast ally back together using lead, but on something that small...  idk.   Only seen it used on HGV engine blocks.
EDIT: This link might provide some useful clues/inspiration?  https://www.metalockengineering.com/en/typical-repairs/metal-stitching/

It can be done with a dirt cheap butane torch and some filler rods and patience  https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hewlett-packard-740b-dc-standard-digital-voltmeter-(and-740a)/msg1419955/#msg1419955

Mmmmhmmmm... that project was one of the better soap operas to appear in this channel. 

I cringed when you modded in that C14 socket, even tho I knew it "had to be done".

I forget... did you ever finish the I/O boxes, or are the cable end connectors still holding you up...?

mnem
 

[mnementh]

Returned the Heathkit IG-18 sine / square wave generator to the owner this morning. I wanted to show him the sine wave output amplitude as related to the Int. / Ext. 600 ohm termination - I asked if I could use his scope. He said yea sure but it hasn't been on in years. I was able to use it but the controls were very dirty, as was the whole unit. Really filthy.

I asked him, if the scope worked well, would he use it? He said he would. So now, I have another project - restoring a Kikusui 20 MHz scope to full operation. I think it just needs a little TLC, no - a lot. Check the pics. One of the dirtiest scopes I've seen in a long while. Right now the cover is off and its airing-out on the front porch. 

Oh dear... here comes another installment of "experiments with bleach paste & UV light"; lemme pull up a chair and get comfortable... 

mnem
 

[xrunner]

Holy crap, that is F....ing nasty. 

Mmmm sticky!

Oh dear... here comes another installment of "experiments with bleach paste & UV light"; lemme pull up a chair and get comfortable... 

Anyone a fan of the TV show "Dirty Jobs"?

I need them to visit my bench!

Grab a pair of nitrile gloves and some Simple Green and you can be on TV with me! 

[Wolfgang]

Thanks a lot for the offer, but I need parts that appear on the NASA parts list. I am builing an USOs that is supposed to be space qualified, so a lot of parts are not even allowed. So for the types, that are 2N2222, 2N2857, 2N2848, 2N3866, ...
really retro, I know. Other parts may be even better, but you know the space buerocrats.

Is it possible, that you could post this parts list here? Just out of curiousity.

Thanks.

Yeah, why not. The link is here:
https://nepp.nasa.gov/npsl/

It also has links to the European and Japanese Space Agency Lists. Dont be surprised that some parts are older than you

Who still manufactures those devices to those Mil-Spec standards...?  To get that rating is more than just final parts testing; it's a whole process, from beginning to end that has to be maintained in closed-loop management to ensure the part is sufficiently abuse-tolerant.

After that, there's a whole nuther long involved process in the procurement aspect; from storage conditions to static-protection to chain-of-custody at every step of the part's handling to ensure it ARRIVES to the assembler without degradation. The last one left that I knew of back in the day was Fairchild; to my knowledge they no longer have US-based production facilities so would not qualify from the security aspect of that process control...?

mnem
*just me fulminating at the mind again...*

I think one of the major MIL parts supplier today is Microsemi.

And, yes, for class 1 you need backtrackability from the part back to the wafer. including all processing steps, tests, ...
No wonder a 2N2222A with all the checks will cost you about 1K per piece. You get a telephone book of documentation with it,
and you have to wait a few months before you get it. And - most surprising - the data of these parts is not as good as standard parts.
Only the have proven that they can survive a lot more abuse than others. Thats what you want in a space environment. Reliability is king.
Cutting edge ? Nah. Never.

[mnementh]

What;    Philip Fry and company...? I thought they moved all their production to Taiwan in the early 2000s...? Not sure I'd trust security there any better than China...

mnem
 

[mnementh]

I think if we knew the real truth that a lot of MIL spec hardware contains Chinese sourced parts. 

Hmmm... knowing how Apple maintains Gestapo-level security on their Chinese production lines; I wonder if any such facility would or even COULD engage with  'merkin military security to ensure similar plant lockdown...? Not sure what their government would permit...

mnem
Trying to think in a "Cold War" mindset makes my brain cry...

[Saskia]

I propose soaking the PCB in "Essigessenz" and wait for the bubbling to subside. This neutralizes the KOH and basically stops the caustic from eating any further into your PCB.

If it has been there for any time it won't be Potassium Hydroxide any more, it will almost certainly have converted to Potassium Carbonate by taking up CO₂ from the atmosphere - remember that alkali metal hydroxides are used to make CO₂ scrubbers to remove CO₂ from the atmosphere in rebreathers and spacecraft. It isn't necessary to do anything so aggressive as trying to neutralize it with vinegar. Potassium Carbonate is basically the Potassium version of washing soda (Na₂CO₃) and it ought to wash out quite happily with just water - it's so soluble that it's deliquescent. Adding an acid to the mix could make things worse by attacking things that are susceptible to acid attack that weren't susceptible to attack by bases. In particular, copper is more susceptible to attack by weak acids (e.g. vinegar) than is it to weak alkalis (e.g. K₂CO₃) - I use citric acid to micro-etch copper when making PCBs to promote adhesion of resist films.

I tend to disagree here given my experience with battery induced corrosion on PCBs and corrosion repair. When doing corrosion repair on a pinball pcb the KOH eats away at the traces even under the solder mask quite happily and does so for weeks if not longer. The only viable way to get it off is to neutralize it an a weak acid, and you can basically watch that reaction when pouring acid onto the board. We usually keep it on the board until the bubbling stops (which is about 10 seconds max, far shorter than any bases have had a chance to wreak havoc), clean it off, throw it into the ultrasonic and then remove the solder mask and use the proper amount of flux to clean off any corrosion. Then inspect it under the microscope and fix the traces.

This has worked for many dead CPU boards so far. Thus my offer.

[mnementh]

Your patience for such vile work is both inspiring and frightening. 

mnem
 

[Neomys Sapiens]

Search for "JANTX" on ebay. Sorted. Also broke 

That should rather be JANS or at least JANTXV.

[Saskia]

bisi day.
@work and at home. Cannot tawk about the stuff at work, cuz dat'z sumwhat restricted ...

@home
sold one of my motorbikes.
Unloaded the Weber Barbecue and lugged it up the stairs.
Started rebuilding my home workstation PC which still needs to run W7.
X99 board, i7-5820k, currently 32GB mem, will be upgraded to 64. An intel PCIE SSD (750 series, 1.2 TB) and currently a GTX1060. Still hoping for the RTX 5k though. Currently installing W7 Ultimate
and downloading about 1.8 GB patches. Bloody hell. Installing them will take all nite.

Received a parcel today, I suspect it's that underpowered Raytheon thingie. Tomorrow will be paper sorting day. Hubby will be at work, so I can listen to the Grapevine (Creedence Clearwater Revival) at some ample decibels. Maybe also put on some comfortably numb which is what my neighbors should be by now ...

[AVGresponding]

I think if we knew the real truth that a lot of MIL spec hardware contains Chinese sourced parts. 

Yep, they probably just paint them blue. The navy is blue, right?

[SilverSolder]

[...] Currently installing W7 Ultimate and downloading about 1.8 GB patches. [...]

Microsoft does a couple of "Convenience Rollups" that take you to about 2016,  which can be applied offline in one go like a service pack.  Then the rest of the updates are not so bad.

[bd139]

Roll up pack is called windows 10 

[Saskia]

W10 makes my toe nails roll up.

[mnementh]

[...] Currently installing W7 Ultimate and downloading about 1.8 GB patches. [...]

Microsoft does a couple of "Convenience Rollups" that take you to about 2016,  which can be applied offline in one go like a service pack.  Then the rest of the updates are not so bad.

Yup. Still have them on a thumbdrive around here somewhere. You'll need to find & install Windows6.1-KB947821-v34-x64.msu first; otherwise Windoze Update will stall because the servers it's looking for don't exist anymore.

Others to look into depending on your needs: windows6.1-kb3125574-v4-x64.msu, windows6.1-kb4474419-v3-x64Sept2019SHA-2Update.msu, windows6.1-kb4490628-x64-April2019Rollup.msu, windows6.1-kb4516655-x64-Sept2019ServiceStackUpdate.msu

Good luck!

mnem
 

[Ice-Tea]

Who still manufactures those devices to those Mil-Spec standards...?  To get that rating is more than just final parts testing; it's a whole process, from beginning to end that has to be maintained in closed-loop management to ensure the part is sufficiently abuse-tolerant.

Used to work at a place that makes MIL grade displays. One of the tests simulated a torpedo detonation in the room next door. The display had to survive (but was allowed to reboot). One could make the note that the shock would have killed anyone in the room, but that was less important. The gear had to survive

[med6753]

Aw shit. 

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/repairrestoration-of-a-tek-type-561b/

[mnementh]

W10 makes my toe nails roll up.

mnem
*agitating-ily*

[mnementh]

Aw shit. 

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/repairrestoration-of-a-tek-type-561b/

Damn... Murphy DOES love to just pile it on, doesn't she...? Chin up, buddy. A man made it; a med can fix it. 

mnem
 

[Cerebus]

I propose soaking the PCB in "Essigessenz" and wait for the bubbling to subside. This neutralizes the KOH and basically stops the caustic from eating any further into your PCB.

If it has been there for any time it won't be Potassium Hydroxide any more, it will almost certainly have converted to Potassium Carbonate by taking up CO₂ from the atmosphere - remember that alkali metal hydroxides are used to make CO₂ scrubbers to remove CO₂ from the atmosphere in rebreathers and spacecraft. It isn't necessary to do anything so aggressive as trying to neutralize it with vinegar. Potassium Carbonate is basically the Potassium version of washing soda (Na₂CO₃) and it ought to wash out quite happily with just water - it's so soluble that it's deliquescent. Adding an acid to the mix could make things worse by attacking things that are susceptible to acid attack that weren't susceptible to attack by bases. In particular, copper is more susceptible to attack by weak acids (e.g. vinegar) than is it to weak alkalis (e.g. K₂CO₃) - I use citric acid to micro-etch copper when making PCBs to promote adhesion of resist films.

I tend to disagree here given my experience with battery induced corrosion on PCBs and corrosion repair. When doing corrosion repair on a pinball pcb the KOH eats away at the traces even under the solder mask quite happily and does so for weeks if not longer. The only viable way to get it off is to neutralize it an a weak acid, and you can basically watch that reaction when pouring acid onto the board. We usually keep it on the board until the bubbling stops (which is about 10 seconds max, far shorter than any bases have had a chance to wreak havoc), clean it off, throw it into the ultrasonic and then remove the solder mask and use the proper amount of flux to clean off any corrosion. Then inspect it under the microscope and fix the traces.

This has worked for many dead CPU boards so far. Thus my offer.

The bubbling you observe is pretty conclusive proof that you're looking at the carbonate K₂CO₃ + 2CH₃-COOH →  2CH₃COOK + CO₂ + H₂O whereas the hydroxide doesn't produce any gas when neutralised CH₃COOH + KOH → CH₃COOK + H²O. The (weakly basic) carbonate is no more difficult to wash off than the (weakly acidic*) acetate that you're creating. All the neutralisation step is doing is introducing another unnecessary chemical to the mix.

* It's a little more complicated than that, potassium acetate in the presence of acetic acid acts as a pH buffer and it gets a bit complicated from there...