Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[BU508A]

I did not want to write anything more about these esoteric views of some TEA fellows about Mathematics, but I changed my mind.

I've mentioned David Hilbert for a good reason: Hilbert's program.
This program is based on the invention of another mathematician, Georg Cantor and his set theory.
Hilbert tried to achieve a very basic theory, valid for all mathematics, which failed because of this guy: Kurt Gödel and his incompleteness theorems.
But it wasn't a complete fail, because Hilbert's program led to the ZFC which is as per "Today, Zermelo–Fraenkel set theory, with the historically controversial axiom of choice (AC) included, is the standard form of axiomatic set theory and as such is the most common foundation of mathematics."

So, if you come along with this "8-2+1" thing, then you'll have to mess directly with some of the greatest mathematicians, and, even worse, their well-proven theorems.

This has nothing to do with faith or Edit: "following some authoratives" or  supernatural stupidity, this is just all about axioms and logic. Nothing else.

That's just my view to all these things, no more, no less.

[bd139]

Yes. And Aristotle's Syllogistic from the Standpoint of Modern Formal Logic has the answer. 

[Mr. Scram]

Let's use a standard symbolic algebra system, one that is quite capable of calculus operations: Wolfram's Alpha. There are others, but Alpha is readily available on the web at https://www.wolframalpha.com/

To illustrate its power, type the algebraic equation "2 sin((x+y)/2) cos((x-y)/2)" into the box, and press return. It notes it is inferring multiplication, and (after thinking about it for a while) correctly shows the alternate simple form "sin(x) + sin(y)", plus the indefinite integral, some roots, and many other relationships, and a couple of pretty (but boring) numerical plots.
https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2++sin%28%28x%2By%29%2F2%29++cos%28%28x-y%29%2F2%29

Similarly "(a+b)*(a-b)" is computed to be a² - b², and the partial derivative w.r.t. a is "2a", etc.

Or a school maths question "simplify (x^2 + 9x +20)/(x+4)" returns the result "x+5"
https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=simplify+%28x%5E2+%2B+9x+%2B20%29%2F%28x%2B4%29

Yes, you could use it to do much of the school coursework. I wonder if teachers hate it?

Now that we have established that it is doing "proper maths", and isn't merely a computer language doing a few arithmetic operations, let's consider a couple of simple arithmetic questions....

Type the algebraic identity (not an arbitrary computer language) "a+b*c = b*c+a" into the box, and press return.  What do you think the result is?

Type the arithmetic identity "1+2*3 = 9", and press return.  What do you think the result is?

Wolfram Alpha is rather neat, but that's a lot of words to make another argument from authority. Besides,
we're now repeating posts. When even our scaly friend figures as much it's probably time to move on.

[tggzzz]

Let's use a standard symbolic algebra system, one that is quite capable of calculus operations: Wolfram's Alpha. There are others, but Alpha is readily available on the web at https://www.wolframalpha.com/

To illustrate its power, type the algebraic equation "2 sin((x+y)/2) cos((x-y)/2)" into the box, and press return. It notes it is inferring multiplication, and (after thinking about it for a while) correctly shows the alternate simple form "sin(x) + sin(y)", plus the indefinite integral, some roots, and many other relationships, and a couple of pretty (but boring) numerical plots.
https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2++sin%28%28x%2By%29%2F2%29++cos%28%28x-y%29%2F2%29

Similarly "(a+b)*(a-b)" is computed to be a² - b², and the partial derivative w.r.t. a is "2a", etc.

Or a school maths question "simplify (x^2 + 9x +20)/(x+4)" returns the result "x+5"
https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=simplify+%28x%5E2+%2B+9x+%2B20%29%2F%28x%2B4%29

Yes, you could use it to do much of the school coursework. I wonder if teachers hate it?

Now that we have established that it is doing "proper maths", and isn't merely a computer language doing a few arithmetic operations, let's consider a couple of simple arithmetic questions....

Type the algebraic identity (not an arbitrary computer language) "a+b*c = b*c+a" into the box, and press return.  What do you think the result is?

Type the arithmetic identity "1+2*3 = 9", and press return.  What do you think the result is?

Wolfram Alpha is rather neat, but that's a lot of words to make another argument from authority. Besides,
we're now repeating posts. When even our scaly friend figures as much it's probably time to move on.

That's awfully close to arguing that "my opinion is worth as much as the experts" - an attitude that I hate with a vengence since it leads downwards towards futures like those in the film "Idiocracy". I realised that early on when one of my landladies at uni seriously believed that fish come up to the surface to breath. She couldn't be persuaded otherwise, even by her husband who was the skipper of an sea-going ship!

No, a random blogger's opinions and misunderstandings are not worth diddly squat when put against the considered and accumulated wisdom of the giants in a field. Now it is possible that a random blogger or similar could overthrow previous beliefs; Einstein did. But "extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof", not merely "I think it ought to be done this way".

And Mnem merely has one viewpoint; there are others even in this forum.

(Oh, I suppose I ought to state that I am not a mathematical great, even though strictly speaking I have 3 Maths A-levels )

[mnementh]

Another manly-man milestone: The boy's first rattle-can. He's a natural; but I think I'll keep him away from the  blue stuff  for a little while longer, just to be on the safe side. 

mnem

[Mr. Scram]

I did not want to write anything more about these esoteric views of some TEA fellows about Mathematics, but I changed my mind.

I've mentioned David Hilbert for a good reason: Hilbert's program.
This program is based on the invention of another mathematician, Georg Cantor and his set theory.
Hilbert tried to achieve a very basic theory, valid for all mathematics, which failed because of this guy: Kurt Gödel and his incompleteness theorems.
But it wasn't a complete fail, because Hilbert's program led to the ZFC which is as per "Today, Zermelo–Fraenkel set theory, with the historically controversial axiom of choice (AC) included, is the standard form of axiomatic set theory and as such is the most common foundation of mathematics."

So, if you come along with this "8-2+1" thing, then you'll have to mess directly with some of the greatest mathematicians, and, even worse, their well-proven theorems.

This has nothing to do with faith or Edit: "following some authoratives" or  supernatural stupidity, this is just all about axioms and logic. Nothing else.

That's just my view to all these things, no more, no less.

That's an interesting take. That'll require some rumination, and possibly some beer and that annoyingly good at maths friend.

[med6753]

I'm been wanting to show some good porn and get everyone off this God awful math subject but I'm still waiting for FedEx to show up and it's already after 1500 hours here.   

[tggzzz]

That'll require some rumination, and possibly some beer and that annoyingly good at math friend.

Beer helps. Hot baths help. Beer in hot baths is better. Beer in hot outdoor baths are sublime, provided you aren't responsible for keeping it clean.

Hot streams are the best, since usually those have excellent views. Unfortunately the ones I am acquainted with are in countries where the alcohol is priced punitively. Sigh.

[bd139]

Alternatively LSD may help 

[mnementh]

I'm been wanting to show some good porn and get everyone off this God awful math subject but I'm still waiting for FedEx to show up and it's already after 1500 hours here.   

That's okay. I posted some truly choice spray-bombery for you above; just have you a sit and soak it all in.    We'll let him ease into the cooler colors, tho... don't wanna make his head explode or instigate a habit...

mnem
Whenever the offspring are involved, it is best to err on the side of caution.

[Mr. Scram]

That's awfully close to arguing that "my opinion is worth as much as the experts" - an attitude that I hate with a vengence since it leads downwards towards futures like those in the film "Idiocracy". I realised that early on when one of my landladies at uni seriously believed that fish come up to the surface to breath. She couldn't be persuaded otherwise, even by her husband who was the skipper of an sea-going ship!

No, a random blogger's opinions and misunderstandings are not worth diddly squat when put against the considered and accumulated wisdom of the giants in a field. Now it is possible that a random blogger or similar could overthrow previous beliefs; Einstein did. But "extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof", not merely "I think it ought to be done this way".

And Mnem merely has one viewpoint; there are others even in this forum.

(Oh, I suppose I ought to state that I am not a mathematical great, even though strictly speaking I have 3 Maths A-levels )

Speaking of "a random blogger" as if his authority was the point suggests the same issue. So far people have been pointing at pages of their Bible to prove the truth in their Bible, which can obviously be dismissed outright. The notable exception is BU508A, who has taken the time to properly formulate a much more substantial response which isn't just "nu-uh". A bit of substance makes all the difference in the world.

Fish can gulp at the surface in badly oxygenated water, so I can imagine some confusion. That's not to say some people aren't stubborn in their thinking. Dogmatic, one might say. 

[Mr. Scram]

That'll require some rumination, and possibly some beer and that annoyingly good at math friend.

Beer helps. Hot baths help. Beer in hot baths is better. Beer in hot outdoor baths are sublime, provided you aren't responsible for keeping it clean.

Hot streams are the best, since usually those have excellent views. Unfortunately the ones I am acquainted with are in countries where the alcohol is priced punitively. Sigh.

I could do a wood fired bath and beer, even if maths boy is included.

[BU508A]

Today I've received a bag of various crystals. I've tested some of them with my crystal tester and found the tester reasonable accurate.

Since I do not need that much crystals, I have here two sets to spare, one set contains eight crystals.
The crystals are having the following values:

• 1.8432 MHz
• 4.096 MHz
• 4.194304 MHz
• 8.8672 MHz
• 12.000 MHz
• 13.50 MHz
• 24.00 MHz
• 57.840 MHz (second overtone of 19.28 MHz)

If you are living in Europe and if you are interested in one set, please PM me. First come, first serve.   

[med6753]

At last. This Type 106 is in excellent condition. Even the cabinet. I won't need to paint it. Some dust on the inside because it does have a fan.








Does it work? Sure does.  7904 thru a 50 ohm 7A24 plug-in. The pots and controls are dirty. That's to be expected. I'll give everything a good cleaning. And naturally at some point I will re-cap it. It has A LOT of electrolytics in it.

[BU508A]

At last. This Type 106 is in excellent condition. Even the cabinet. I won't need to paint it. Some dust on the inside because it does have a fan.








Does it work? Sure does.  7904 thru a 50 ohm 7A24 plug-in. The pots and controls are dirty. That's to be expected. I'll give everything a good cleaning. And naturally at some point I will re-cap it. It has A LOT of electrolytics in it.

What a nice square wave generator! And it is looking realy nice, love it. 
I'm a bit curious: could you measure the rise (and perhaps the fall) time of this square wave? Would be great. 

[tggzzz]

Fish can gulp at the surface in badly oxygenated water, so I can imagine some confusion. That's not to say some people aren't stubborn in their thinking. Dogmatic, one might say. 

The landlady was pig ignorant in other ways. The fish story is merely one, one that is simple to relate.

[med6753]

At last. This Type 106 is in excellent condition. Even the cabinet. I won't need to paint it. Some dust on the inside because it does have a fan.


Does it work? Sure does.  7904 thru a 50 ohm 7A24 plug-in. The pots and controls are dirty. That's to be expected. I'll give everything a good cleaning. And naturally at some point I will re-cap it. It has A LOT of electrolytics in it.

What a nice square wave generator! And it is looking realy nice, love it. 
I'm a bit curious: could you measure the rise (and perhaps the fall) time of this square wave? Would be great. 

The manual sez 1ns rise time. Quick check here shows a considerably longer rise time so we'll have to see what's up.

[mnementh]

At last. This Type 106 is in excellent condition. Even the cabinet. I won't need to paint it. Some dust on the inside because it does have a fan.

Does it work? Sure does.  7904 thru a 50 ohm 7A24 plug-in. The pots and controls are dirty. That's to be expected. I'll give everything a good cleaning. And naturally at some point I will re-cap it. It has A LOT of electrolytics in it.

Awww, maaaaaan... I'm sorry you lost out on this one; better luck next time. 

Quick guys; lets pool our resources and send med a dingy D83 or at least a rusty ol' Ford wheel so he can get his fix... 

mnem
 

[doktor pyta]

Does anyone have photos showing what is inside PPM Inc AVM-100 Null Meter?


For addicted ones:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/PPM-Inc-Model-AVM-100-Null-Meter/223991698533?hash=item3426f21465:g:T2sAAOSwdNlep40o

[xrunner]

Just a quic-pic of my re-arranged bench after installing my new home-made riser-shelf with new LED strip underneath. This strip doesn't get false commands from the IR control for my other LED strip because this one uses an RF remote - Yay.

[0culus]

Wow, you can actually see your bench?  Nice work! _{I need to do some clean up. But a wise man once said that if you have time to clean your bench, it means you aren't being productive!}

[VK5RC]

xr - that bench is way too neat, it's an abomination! Needs more stuff!

[xrunner]

xr - that bench is way too neat, it's an abomination! Needs more stuff!

Had to clean it off to get the shelf set up right. Will get more projects on it soon. 

[bitseeker]

Check out the comment section on this video. Rich Wilson, designer on the HP 3478A, posted a reply. I haven't seen him around the YouTubes before.

[0culus]

At last. This Type 106 is in excellent condition. Even the cabinet. I won't need to paint it. Some dust on the inside because it does have a fan.


Does it work? Sure does.  7904 thru a 50 ohm 7A24 plug-in. The pots and controls are dirty. That's to be expected. I'll give everything a good cleaning. And naturally at some point I will re-cap it. It has A LOT of electrolytics in it.

What a nice square wave generator! And it is looking realy nice, love it. 
I'm a bit curious: could you measure the rise (and perhaps the fall) time of this square wave? Would be great. 

The manual sez 1ns rise time. Quick check here shows a considerably longer rise time so we'll have to see what's up.

Really neat little glowing box you have there! 

If you look at the 7904 manual, the 7904/7A24 combo is limited to 350 MHz / 1 ns risetime. And that is wildly longer than 1 ns!