Author Topic: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread  (Read 14555186 times)

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Offline bd139

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #88450 on: April 17, 2021, 06:05:50 pm »
Edge is pretty good  :-DD
 

Offline mansaxel

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #88451 on: April 17, 2021, 06:07:53 pm »
Edge is pretty good  :-DD

Compared to IE6, yes.

Offline bd139

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #88452 on: April 17, 2021, 06:11:38 pm »
Edge is pretty good  :-DD

Compared to IE6, yes.

It's just a fork of Chromium now, which I'm finding is slightly better than Chrome.

Firefox *was* nice but it got so deep in wankery that it feels dirty using it now.
 

Offline mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #88453 on: April 17, 2021, 06:14:30 pm »
Nahh... they've cleaned up their act quite a bit. By far the lesser of the multiple evils out there at this point. :palm:

@mansaxel - Already sorted; on fireFlumph right now. I was mostly just venting at that point because I knew it was out there somewhere:o  Safari kept taking me to links to versions that were NOT correct for my old OS X. One might think it knew that it was doomed...  :-DD

mnem
« Last Edit: April 17, 2021, 06:19:51 pm by mnementh »
alt-codes work here:  alt-0128 = €  alt-156 = £  alt-0216 = Ø  alt-225 = ß  alt-230 = µ  alt-234 = Ω  alt-236 = ∞  alt-248 = °
 

Offline bd139

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #88454 on: April 17, 2021, 06:19:39 pm »
Nah it's a secondary browser here for testing reasons for a good reason. It has some seriously fucked up things going on inside it. I actually spent an hour last week working on an issue related to Firefox which was resulting in cookie data being appended to over and over and over again until the server rejected the request. Of course as the dude responsible for the server this was my issue to deal with until I had proven otherwise :). This is due to a weird ass bug in Document.cookie.  I'm not joking i have opened over 50 bugzilla tickets against it. It's a shit show.

On the quality front it's the worst of all of the mainstream browsers now. I hate saying it but Chromium/V8 is actually rather good.

Edit: oh and the other one this week - wireshark and firefox dev tools don't always agree on what is going on over the network  >:(
« Last Edit: April 17, 2021, 06:22:28 pm by bd139 »
 

Offline mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #88455 on: April 17, 2021, 06:25:37 pm »
Yebbutt that's cuz it's yer job. For the random user off the street, like most of us, it's the least invasive and most usable. Plus you can reasonably painlessly configure it so it doesn't shouldn't give anything to the MS or Gurrgle datamining operations, aside from the inevitable DNS queries... which yes, I know you can kill off too, but fuck dat... I have a life. :palm:

It's that whole thing like you said aboot tying its feet together so it can't kick you in the balls but once in a while... ;)

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« Last Edit: April 17, 2021, 06:28:38 pm by mnementh »
alt-codes work here:  alt-0128 = €  alt-156 = £  alt-0216 = Ø  alt-225 = ß  alt-230 = µ  alt-234 = Ω  alt-236 = ∞  alt-248 = °
 

Online ch_scr

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #88456 on: April 17, 2021, 06:34:53 pm »
My Chinese peltier-element-controller came. Already got it hooked up to the chamber. It oscillates, of course, so some PID- :-/O is required.
Which I can't do, because the manual with the RS232 commands got lost. And ofc the seller is not responding on a weekend :palm:
But it does turn on :-+
 
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Offline DC1MC

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #88457 on: April 17, 2021, 06:36:54 pm »
Does anyone woant to bid for these beauties:

https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-anzeige/lot-148-hewlett-packard-4x-digital-multimeter/1708232302-168-4196
https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-anzeige/lot-152-hewlett-packard-digital-multimeter/1708415090-168-4196
https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-anzeige/lot-141-keithley-3x-geraete-multimeter-source-und-lcz-meter/1708205500-168-4196

If we make a group buy, I'm in !!!

The auction house has A LOT of cool stuff, but I was never able to properly do it and instruct a courier fro pick-up, maybe Mr. IceTea can give some advice.

Cheers,
DC1MC
 

Online ch_scr

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #88458 on: April 17, 2021, 06:41:50 pm »
Does anyone woant to bid for these beauties:

https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-anzeige/lot-148-hewlett-packard-4x-digital-multimeter/1708232302-168-4196
https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-anzeige/lot-152-hewlett-packard-digital-multimeter/1708415090-168-4196
https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-anzeige/lot-141-keithley-3x-geraete-multimeter-source-und-lcz-meter/1708205500-168-4196

If we make a group buy, I'm in !!!

The auction house has A LOT of cool stuff, but I was never able to properly do it and instruct a courier fro pick-up, maybe Mr. IceTea can give some advice.

Cheers,
DC1MC
Well, I live close by, about half an hour drive. Try not to buy more than what will fit into a Peugeot 107 :-DD
But more serious: maybe stop by on the discord, easier to sort it out there...
 
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Offline BU508A

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #88459 on: April 17, 2021, 06:45:48 pm »
Does anyone woant to bid for these beauties:

https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-anzeige/lot-148-hewlett-packard-4x-digital-multimeter/1708232302-168-4196
https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-anzeige/lot-152-hewlett-packard-digital-multimeter/1708415090-168-4196
https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-anzeige/lot-141-keithley-3x-geraete-multimeter-source-und-lcz-meter/1708205500-168-4196

If we make a group buy, I'm in !!!

The auction house has A LOT of cool stuff, but I was never able to properly do it and instruct a courier fro pick-up, maybe Mr. IceTea can give some advice.

Cheers,
DC1MC

 :-DD

Sorry, please do not misunderstand, but we've discussed this lot and this seller on discord one or two weeks ago.  :-+  ;D
“Chaos is found in greatest abundance wherever order is being sought. It always defeats order, because it is better organized.”            - Terry Pratchett -
 

Offline DC1MC

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #88460 on: April 17, 2021, 06:50:31 pm »

 :-DD

Sorry, please do not misunderstand, but we've discussed this lot and this seller on discord one or two weeks ago.  :-+  ;D

So, what was the result, like (most) of other auction houses, is crappy, wasn't just my bad luck with them ?!?!
 

Online tggzzz

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #88461 on: April 17, 2021, 07:09:48 pm »
If they are working and saturated, they will be so fragile they won't survive shipping (fragile glass envelope, and fragile crystals in the electrode[1]). OTOH if they are unsaturated, they won't be in spec any longer.

Yes, I can't imagine them surviving any normal shipping. The listing gives no condition classification, so I suspect they are indeed no longer saturated, and are no more than a curiosity, realistically.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Standard-Cell-Weston-Normal-Cell-1-Volt/313488809914


I guessed that might be the listing :)

I would bet on that being saturated since the temperature is mentioned, there are two in the container, there is a hole for a thermometer to measure the temperature, and the voltage is right.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
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Offline BU508A

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #88462 on: April 17, 2021, 07:12:08 pm »

 :-DD

Sorry, please do not misunderstand, but we've discussed this lot and this seller on discord one or two weeks ago.  :-+  ;D

So, what was the result, like (most) of other auction houses, is crappy, wasn't just my bad luck with them ?!?!

They are expensive (on top of the winning bid there are additional fees plus VAT), picking up the items by yourself is a pita (I think, in this case they will/might ship the items, but this increases prices), so it would/could be a lot of hassle to do business with them. One need a dedicated login as well for bidding. So I shield away from the effort.
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Offline Cerebus

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #88463 on: April 17, 2021, 07:21:20 pm »
So, the OCXO saga turns into the GPSDO saga.

I've got a very early prototype of a GPSDO up and running with one of the OCXOs that we were all buying like flies...

Very early days. This is just a trial pass at the core of things, proof of concept before getting anywhere near finalising an actual circuit design and thinking about actually spinning up a board. The current version relies on having a GPS receiver up and running producing valid PPS signals - no initialisation code for the GPS (heck, nothing but a PPS signal at the moment) I'm using a Trimble Resolution-T timing receiver that I already had around, its twin is the PPS source for my NTP server. The DAC I'm using for EFC in the lash-up is a crappy MCP4822 (12 bits 0-4.095V) that produces about 1 LSB of noise on the output and no filtering.

I'm using a truly simple control loop initially, just averaging the count from the OCXO (made with an STM32 timer in capture mode at 100 MHz, said 100MHz derived via PLL from the OCXO) over 100 seconds and making corrections once every 100 seconds on that basis. Haven't even done more than acknowledge that z-transforms, FIR and IIR filters exist and that I'm ignoring them for the time being. No proper analysis has gone into this beyond "Well, the PPS has ~10ns of innate jitter and another ±20ns from quantization jitter - that'll all have to be filtered out".

Results with such a crude setup are promising. Here's the debug output looks like from the latest run (ignore the 'frequency' figures once it gets into the main loop, the crappy printf library I'm using craps out beyond 8 digits of precision and truncates things as a consequence):



========== STM32F411 starting. ==========
Git hash: e2055dfa37582e14a92371c358e003e9395c6991

Creating blinky.

Initialising SPI1 ...done.

Setting DAC for OCXO MIN f calibration.
MIN frequency = 9999987.000000000

Setting DAC for OCXO MAX f calibration.
MAX frequency = 10000016.000000000

OCXO EFI gain = 7.160763740 Hz/Volt, 0.007114774 Hz/DAC step

Setting DAC to initial trial set point.
DAC set to 2000 (2.0163V).

frequency = 10000000.00Hz, error =  0.3100Hz, DAC correction = -43, new DAC value = 1957 (1.9736V)
frequency = 10000000.00Hz, error = -0.0460Hz, DAC correction =   6, new DAC value = 1963 (1.9795V)
frequency = 10000000.00Hz, error =  0.0030Hz, DAC correction =   0, new DAC value = 1963 (1.9795V)
frequency = 10000000.00Hz, error =  0.0109Hz, DAC correction =  -1, new DAC value = 1962 (1.9785V)
frequency = 10000000.00Hz, error =  0.0099Hz, DAC correction =  -1, new DAC value = 1961 (1.9776V)
frequency = 10000000.00Hz, error = -0.0010Hz, DAC correction =   0, new DAC value = 1961 (1.9776V)
frequency = 10000000.00Hz, error =  0.0049Hz, DAC correction =   0, new DAC value = 1961 (1.9776V)
frequency = 10000000.00Hz, error =  0.0060Hz, DAC correction =   0, new DAC value = 1961 (1.9776V)
frequency = 10000000.00Hz, error =  0.0120Hz, DAC correction =  -1, new DAC value = 1960 (1.9766V)
frequency = 10000000.00Hz, error =  0.0099Hz, DAC correction =  -1, new DAC value = 1959 (1.9756V)
frequency = 10000000.00Hz, error =  0.0049Hz, DAC correction =   0, new DAC value = 1959 (1.9756V)
frequency = 10000000.00Hz, error =  0.0010Hz, DAC correction =   0, new DAC value = 1959 (1.9756V)
frequency = 10000000.00Hz, error =  0.0040Hz, DAC correction =   0, new DAC value = 1959 (1.9756V)
frequency = 10000000.00Hz, error =  0.0030Hz, DAC correction =   0, new DAC value = 1959 (1.9756V)
frequency = 10000000.00Hz, error =  0.0020Hz, DAC correction =   0, new DAC value = 1959 (1.9756V)
frequency = 10000000.00Hz, error =  0.0010Hz, DAC correction =   0, new DAC value = 1959 (1.9756V)
frequency = 10000000.00Hz, error =  0.0049Hz, DAC correction =   0, new DAC value = 1959 (1.9756V)
frequency = 10000000.00Hz, error =  0.0099Hz, DAC correction =  -1, new DAC value = 1958 (1.9746V)
frequency = 10000000.00Hz, error =  0.0030Hz, DAC correction =   0, new DAC value = 1958 (1.9746V)
frequency = 10000000.00Hz, error =  0.0049Hz, DAC correction =   0, new DAC value = 1958 (1.9746V)
frequency = 10000000.00Hz, error =  0.0049Hz, DAC correction =   0, new DAC value = 1958 (1.9746V)
frequency = 10000000.00Hz, error =  0.0049Hz, DAC correction =   0, new DAC value = 1958 (1.9746V)
frequency = 10000000.00Hz, error = -0.0069Hz, DAC correction =   0, new DAC value = 1958 (1.9746V)
frequency = 10000000.00Hz, error = -0.0010Hz, DAC correction =   0, new DAC value = 1958 (1.9746V)
frequency = 10000000.00Hz, error = -0.0030Hz, DAC correction =   0, new DAC value = 1958 (1.9746V)



You're looking at 2500 seconds in the main control loop there, a bit of 40 minutes of operation. Wandering about by a few mHz isn't shabby, especially for such a crude lash-up. Currently has a rather poor constellation of satellites in view for the GPS, so take with a small pinch of salt.

On a slightly different front, my TTi TF930, which I last calibrated and adjusted over a year ago, is only ~8.5 ppb out versus GPS. Creditable, very creditable.
Anybody got a syringe I can use to squeeze the magic smoke back into this?
 
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Offline AVGresponding

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #88464 on: April 17, 2021, 07:31:22 pm »
If they are working and saturated, they will be so fragile they won't survive shipping (fragile glass envelope, and fragile crystals in the electrode[1]). OTOH if they are unsaturated, they won't be in spec any longer.

Yes, I can't imagine them surviving any normal shipping. The listing gives no condition classification, so I suspect they are indeed no longer saturated, and are no more than a curiosity, realistically.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Standard-Cell-Weston-Normal-Cell-1-Volt/313488809914


I guessed that might be the listing :)

I would bet on that being saturated since the temperature is mentioned, there are two in the container, there is a hole for a thermometer to measure the temperature, and the voltage is right.

The concerns over shipping remain, however.




Discord is live   :popcorn:
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Offline bd139

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #88465 on: April 17, 2021, 07:33:02 pm »
Be there soon. Hoovering. Well I’m not I’m posting this but should be hoovering.
 

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #88466 on: April 17, 2021, 07:38:04 pm »
hp 437B calibration reference

The calibration depends on the internal power reference being accurate. The reference frequency is well inside the 50 MHz +/- 500 kHz tolerance. The service manual specifically states that anywhere inside that window "no adjustment is necessary".

I can't perform the hp power calibration procedure because I don't have another calibrated power meter of similiar accuracy as it requires.

The power spec is 1.0 mW +/- 0.7%. This would be

0.7% of 1.0 mW = 0.007 mW

So we have between 1.007 mW and 0.993 mW, or between +0.0303 and -0.0305 dBm

I checked the output power level with a Rigol DSA815 and I measured -0.09 dBm (averaging). However, it isn't accurate enough to calibrate the output power (refer to the specifications of the DSA-815, < 1.5 dB uncertainty).

I have an Agilent 8648A signal generator that I could reference the Rigol to, but it has a tolerance of +/- 1.0 dBm output. So again, I can't use it to make any judgments. Therefore, I will leave well enough alone, because the output power may very well be within tolerance. It certainly isn't "wildly" off.

Note: Come to think of it, the 437B meter only sells for $37 ... if I had another one to compare to ...  :P
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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #88467 on: April 17, 2021, 07:48:00 pm »

Yes PSU ripple had crossed my mind however the main amp PSU seems to be working fine as it's still driving the 5 speakers without hum or noticeable distortion and able to blast us out of a 4 car garage when Pink Floyd get played and you crank it right up !  :-DD


So check how the lower voltage auxiliary supplies are generated. Might be a separate winding (with failed bridge rectifier) or some nasty dropper resistors from main amp voltage causing local hot spots on the PCB and nearby components failing ...
Yep all simple stuff you would normally spot with a little experience....spose I should go looking for a SM....oh hang on I've already got one on my Manual folder !  :-DD

Myself, I'd search out which relay(s) is/are rattling first. May not even be in the protection circuit; some of the older models used relays in the input switching and/or had relays that provided impedance matching or put the speakers in series if you switched in an additional pair of speakers on the B channel.

mnem
 :-/O
A, B and Rear all working fine and I think Robert might be correct in that the rattler is an AV input but not showing on the display.  :-//
Bad Driver seems to know these units well so will roll with what he's offered.

Discord !
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Online factory

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #88468 on: April 17, 2021, 07:49:40 pm »
Yokogawa DL1200A

Okay, as promised and even though it is getting late here (01:22 MEST),
here is the teardown and a little testing of the Yokogawa DL1200A.

First of all: I'm impressed. Why? Well, because of this:

This is the box. Looking suspiciously small and I'm fearing the worst.  >:(


Let's open the box and yes: no additional packaging material. Zero! None!  :wtf:  :rant:  :palm:


[snip...]

But is it working?
Let's find out.
First boot and CH1 and CH2. Looks good! This thing has survived the trip from Munich to me without any damage so far!
Very impressive!  :-+


The display is very crisp and all the functions seems to work!
I've connected my R&S dual arb generator  (type: ADS) to the scope and fooled around a little bit.
Signals are sine and triangle, 1kHz, 2Vpp. Sorry for the blurred pictures,
sometimes the cam did not focus on the display and I was too lazy to take new pictures.


I hope you've enjoyed this little teardown and testing.
I think, I've fallen in love with those Yokogawa scopes. Cute things, a bit unusual in their handling but not illogical.

But now it's bedtime, really tired at 02:14 MEST here ...  :=\

Thanks for the teardown, never got round to looking in mine.

Is the casing of your DL1200A made from sheet metal? certainly looks that way from the pictures, my later DL1520L is all plastic and would not have survived that crappy packing job.

Also noticed the with the three that have been posted in recent weeks all have slightly different layout for the controls. Not sure I like the reduction of front panel controls on the newer color screen one that was posted, also seems to lose screen space with the onscreen menus, they have ruined it.

David
 

Offline med6753

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #88469 on: April 17, 2021, 08:01:02 pm »
Be there soon. Hoovering. Well I’m not I’m posting this but should be hoovering.

Funny, I'm hoovering too.  ;D
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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #88470 on: April 17, 2021, 08:02:43 pm »

Yes PSU ripple had crossed my mind however the main amp PSU seems to be working fine as it's still driving the 5 speakers without hum or noticeable distortion and able to blast us out of a 4 car garage when Pink Floyd get played and you crank it right up !  :-DD


So check how the lower voltage auxiliary supplies are generated. Might be a separate winding (with failed bridge rectifier) or some nasty dropper resistors from main amp voltage causing local hot spots on the PCB and nearby components failing ...
Yep all simple stuff you would normally spot with a little experience....spose I should go looking for a SM....oh hang on I've already got one on my Manual folder !  :-DD

Myself, I'd search out which relay(s) is/are rattling first. May not even be in the protection circuit; some of the older models used relays in the input switching and/or had relays that provided impedance matching or put the speakers in series if you switched in an additional pair of speakers on the B channel.

mnem
 :-/O
A, B and Rear all working fine and I think Robert might be correct in that the rattler is an AV input but not showing on the display.  :-//
Bad Driver seems to know these units well so will roll with what he's offered.

Discord !
Well, clearly the relay that is chattering is not in the signal path of the current input to the amp and neither is it in the protection or output section of the amp. I have not seen a service manual or a schematic for this device, but it could be in the recording / playback circuit of the tape circuit, tuner or other input but, seeing as you cannot detect anything affecting the sound while playing Pink Floyd at good chat levels, I would say that it is not on the input side at all, maybe there is some sort of tape output monitoring circuit that could be causing the problem.

You also don't say if the amp is in a position that it could be picking up mechanical feedback from the speakers, Pink Floyd normal have some pretty healthy bass levels and if the amp is being subjected to feedback from this and has a high impedance contact, or subject  to low coil voltage then that feedback could be aggravating the condition and thus chattering?
Who let Murphy in?

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #88471 on: April 17, 2021, 08:05:26 pm »
Thanks Spec, amp isn't within 3m of a speaker.
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Offline VEGETA

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #88472 on: April 17, 2021, 08:28:41 pm »
It is either Philips PM3110 or ITT OX 710C for about 40JDs (~65$). Both without probes.


Offline Robert763

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #88473 on: April 17, 2021, 08:35:27 pm »
hp 437B calibration reference

The calibration depends on the internal power reference being accurate. The reference frequency is well inside the 50 MHz +/- 500 kHz tolerance. The service manual specifically states that anywhere inside that window "no adjustment is necessary".

I can't perform the hp power calibration procedure because I don't have another calibrated power meter of similiar accuracy as it requires.

The power spec is 1.0 mW +/- 0.7%. This would be

0.7% of 1.0 mW = 0.007 mW

So we have between 1.007 mW and 0.993 mW, or between +0.0303 and -0.0305 dBm

I checked the output power level with a Rigol DSA815 and I measured -0.09 dBm (averaging). However, it isn't accurate enough to calibrate the output power (refer to the specifications of the DSA-815, < 1.5 dB uncertainty).

I have an Agilent 8648A signal generator that I could reference the Rigol to, but it has a tolerance of +/- 1.0 dBm output. So again, I can't use it to make any judgments. Therefore, I will leave well enough alone, because the output power may very well be within tolerance. It certainly isn't "wildly" off.

Note: Come to think of it, the 437B meter only sells for $37 ... if I had another one to compare to ...  :P

What you need is an OLD power meter, a 432Aplus 478A sensor, preferrably with option H76. While the sensor is old it allows DC balance and low frequency subsitution. he meter does not have to be in cal just the sensor and a DMM.
This is the standrd for calibrating the calibrators and most sensors.
 
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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #88474 on: April 17, 2021, 08:36:12 pm »
This is not a bad deal if you need a quality RTD as a reference eBay auction: #333827379223 If you are looking to pair it with non Fluke just check out the Ro first or you will need to apply a fudge to the results when you get to uber accuracy.



The 1987 catalog states the Y2037 is a 100Ω RTD probe, it should work with anything that requires RTD 100Ω or PT100 sensors. Same wiring colours as the new probe I bought from Farnell for my second hp 2802A thermometer.

David
 


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