Author Topic: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread  (Read 14555678 times)

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Offline bd139

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #102225 on: September 18, 2021, 07:24:30 pm »
All this talk of "deathtraps" etc etc. Please find me a case of someone dying in an accident while driving a C5. I'm calling   :bullshit:

Be on discord soon.
 

Offline Cerebus

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #102226 on: September 18, 2021, 07:25:49 pm »
Just a quick note before I disappear into Discord -

Cerebus - This silicone pastry sheet is effing awesome; it makes a great workspace. I can rest my arms on the edges comfortably, and it has already caught like 3 tiny screws that tried to go pinging off.
Definitely claws up fro this tinkerdwagon.

mnem
 :-/O

I got one. Yet to be tried.
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Offline med6753

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #102227 on: September 18, 2021, 07:33:49 pm »
I haven't thought of Catweasel in ages.



The titular character is a bit reminiscent of a photo Mike posted of himself some long time back.  >:D

You referring to me? Bullshit, I don't look anything like that.  :o :D
An old gray beard with an attitude.
 
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Offline med6753

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An old gray beard with an attitude.
 
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Offline Specmaster

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #102229 on: September 18, 2021, 07:39:01 pm »


No, you inferred that;  I did not say, nor imply it. It was a response to you lauding the Sinclair calculators by claiming that they were 20% of the price of HP calculators - a deliberate chalk and cheese, bottom and top of the market comparison picked to make the Sinclair look good. A comparison to the Sharps and Casios of the day, Ford Sierra and Vauxhall Cavalier if you will, would have been much more realistic. I was pointing out how flawed that comparison was up by drawing a parallel with motor vehicles. The deliberately over-the-top rhetoric of condemning the impoverished lower classes to their proper station on their bicycles is all yours.


I beg to differ on this point as well, as someone pointed out in an earlier posting that HP preceded Sinclair releasing his pocket calculator. I have never claimed that he invented the pocket calculator, what I did claim is that he made them affordable to far more people though his vision of finding ways to take cost out of the product without affecting its performance. So that people living at the chalk end of the scale could also afford the luxury of a calculator, like those living at the cheese end of the scale could have the HP.
 
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Offline Specmaster

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #102230 on: September 18, 2021, 07:42:28 pm »
Just a quick note before I disappear into Discord -

Cerebus - This silicone pastry sheet is effing awesome; it makes a great workspace. I can rest my arms on the edges comfortably, and it has already caught like 3 tiny screws that tried to go pinging off.
Definitely claws up fro this tinkerdwagon.

mnem
 :-/O

I got one. Yet to be tried.

I have one, and they are great :-+
Who let Murphy in?

Brymen-Fluke-HP-Thurlby-Thander-Tek-Extech-Black Star-GW-Avo-Kyoritsu-Amprobe-ITT-Robin-TTi
 

Online nfmax

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #102231 on: September 18, 2021, 07:44:23 pm »
Sinclair sold products so cheaply that they became affordable by a whole new cadre of users. The calculators and computers, in particular, served to inspire many to seek a career in the technology field. And to earn enough so they were never forced to buy from Sinclair again.
 
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Offline Specmaster

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #102232 on: September 18, 2021, 07:44:39 pm »
All this talk of "deathtraps" etc etc. Please find me a case of someone dying in an accident while driving a C5. I'm calling   :bullshit:

Be on discord soon.
Clearly staged and on a playing field, I'm calling  :bullshit: :-DD
Who let Murphy in?

Brymen-Fluke-HP-Thurlby-Thander-Tek-Extech-Black Star-GW-Avo-Kyoritsu-Amprobe-ITT-Robin-TTi
 

Offline Cerebus

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #102233 on: September 18, 2021, 07:51:11 pm »
In an earlier post you also rubbished the Sinclair pocket calculator, it managed to produce exactly the same results to equations entered as the HP but at a fraction the HP calculators price and even compared it to being like a Lada and Rolls-Royce, which is IMHO utter rubbish. Not everyone can afford a Rolls Royce, so your response is then that if you can't afford a Rolls-Royce (for example) that you have to stick to walking, a push-bike or buses  :wtf:

No, you inferred that;  I did not say, nor imply it. It was a response to you lauding the Sinclair calculators by claiming that they were 20% of the price of HP calculators - a deliberate chalk and cheese, bottom and top of the market comparison picked to make the Sinclair look good. A comparison to the Sharps and Casios of the day, Ford Sierra and Vauxhall Cavalier if you will, would have been much more realistic. I was pointing out how flawed that comparison was up by drawing a parallel with motor vehicles. The deliberately over-the-top rhetoric of condemning the impoverished lower classes to their proper station on their bicycles is all yours.

Quote
The fact the C5 was deemed safe and legal to drive on normal roads is not of Sinclairs making but the government of the day, it also was only intended to be a solution to inner cities with its limited range of just 20 miles and top speed of 15mph, which surprisingly enough is almost the same as these E scooters I posted about earlier, not sure of their range but top speed is also 15mph. The C5 was never sold or intended to be a car, it was classified only as an electrically assisted bike.

You can say what you like about whether it was official deemed to be safe. In fact it was not, it was a deathtrap. Similarly, it doesn't matter what it was "intended to be" - what it actually tuned out to be is the measure of the endeavour. That is, an engineering and a financial failure.

All this talk of "deathtraps" etc etc. Please find me a case of someone dying in an accident while driving a C5. I'm calling   :bullshit:

There were a total of 12,000 C5s sold - ever. TRRL estimated the rate of accidents with C5s would be similar to accident rates with bicycles. There are about 100 bicycle fatalities a year in the UK, there are over 3.4 million bicycles in at least monthly use within the UK - giving a fatality rate of 2.94/100,000/annum. Basically too small a sample to produce a meaningful answer. Just on basic probability there would be 1/3 of a fatality per annum for all C5s, if they continued to be used and they were used at the same rate by their owners as by owners of bicycles rather than abandoned to rot in the garage as I suspect was the fate of many.

It's impossible to find any C5 fatalities in the news by web searches at the moment, as every combination of "C5" and "death" turns up a news story about Sinclair's death or C5 aircraft and it's likely that most fatalities involving a C5 would have happened in pre-Internet days.
Anybody got a syringe I can use to squeeze the magic smoke back into this?
 
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Online tggzzz

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #102234 on: September 18, 2021, 08:05:58 pm »
Has anyone else seen Daves new video? He is going to be restoring his Sinclair C5 in memory of Sir Clive Sinclair and Dave also said that he made consumer electronics affordable to the masses by building down to a price point and his pocket calculator was just 20% of the price of its comparable HP35, reaffirming my points about him making them affordable and even in some cases achieving what HP said was impossible. Anyway, watch the video, he makes many valid points and so many today owe a lot to Sinclairs products for inspiring them into getting them into the industry.

Just because you weren't the only person who swallowed Sinclair's self-promotional propaganda doesn't confirm him as the genius he went around telling everybody that he was, or that he was anywhere as influential as some (including himself) make him out to be. I'm sure that our esteemed prime minister can find all sorts of people that agree with him, that does not make him necessarily correct. Comparing a Sinclair calculator to an HP calculator is like comparing a 1980s Lada to a Rolls-Royce Silver Ghost, if the former cost 20% of the latter, you were ripped off.

Both the HP35 and Sinclair Scientific were "aimed" at replacing slide rules. As was the norm:
  • the -hp- product significantly exceeded its objectives
  • the Sinclair product barely met them
Nonetheless, the Sinclair Scientific was significant and influential and a remarkable achievement.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
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Offline BU508A

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #102235 on: September 18, 2021, 08:11:46 pm »
I haven't thought of Catweasel in ages.



The titular character is a bit reminiscent of a photo Mike posted of himself some long time back.  >:D

You referring to me? Bullshit, I don't look anything like that.  :o :D

Probably more like the new Catweazle?


“Chaos is found in greatest abundance wherever order is being sought. It always defeats order, because it is better organized.”            - Terry Pratchett -
 
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Offline Cerebus

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #102236 on: September 18, 2021, 08:18:10 pm »
 :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD
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Offline med6753

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #102237 on: September 18, 2021, 08:19:15 pm »
I haven't thought of Catweasel in ages.



The titular character is a bit reminiscent of a photo Mike posted of himself some long time back.  >:D

You referring to me? Bullshit, I don't look anything like that.  :o :D

Probably more like the new Catweazle?



You're a riot Alice.  :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD
An old gray beard with an attitude.
 

Offline Cerebus

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #102238 on: September 18, 2021, 08:19:22 pm »
UK eBay heads up - Metcal SP200 with handle, bit, and non-metcal stand £80 BIN: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/274951052192
Anybody got a syringe I can use to squeeze the magic smoke back into this?
 
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Online Vince

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #102239 on: September 18, 2021, 08:35:52 pm »
Vaguely TE and health related:
Metrix multimeter ashtray   ::)
I didn't fall for the 4€ LeCroy mug and I like both mugs and LeCroy so I doubt this one is for me. Vince maybe?  ;D

https://www.leboncoin.fr/collection/2042366426.htm

Thank you but no thank you !  ;D

I don't smoke and I hate merch of any kind, not my mindset....
 

Online Vince

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #102240 on: September 18, 2021, 08:51:34 pm »
I heard there are vegetarian and even vegan human beings ! It's just a rumor though, never seen one in real life so far.
So, why couldn't there be vegan Dwagons as well ?! It ought to be possible, at least in theory.  :-//
Do note that the French definition of "Vegetarian" is someone who'd happily eat chicken and fish. Happened to friends who are North European vegetarians..

I am not aware of any French particularities.... what ever happened to your friends needs investigating, sounds strange.. maybe he thought he was dining in a veggie restaurant when he was not... don't know...
IIRC though, I think the veggies do eat eggs. But anyway, I don't hang around with veggies and don't care at all so I can't ague nor do I want to  :-[
As long as they and their Vegan friends don't try to force other people in any way shape or form to conform to their views, nor ask for a special treatment / favours, I am fine. It's like religion really  :-//


Quote from: mansaxel
  • Dijon mustard (Bornier, the best!)

Good lord you are telling me you are IMPORTING freaking mustard from France instead of just making it yourself ?! Talk about ecology !  ;D
Thank you for supporting our economy though ! Just like Dwagon with "Bonne Maman" confitures...

Other than the Volvo 5 pot in-line engine in my Renault, I am not sure I ever "imported" something from Sweden ?
But that alone was worth having Sweden on the map, so thank you !  :-+

 

Offline Specmaster

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #102241 on: September 18, 2021, 08:54:13 pm »
Has anyone else seen Daves new video? He is going to be restoring his Sinclair C5 in memory of Sir Clive Sinclair and Dave also said that he made consumer electronics affordable to the masses by building down to a price point and his pocket calculator was just 20% of the price of its comparable HP35, reaffirming my points about him making them affordable and even in some cases achieving what HP said was impossible. Anyway, watch the video, he makes many valid points and so many today owe a lot to Sinclairs products for inspiring them into getting them into the industry.

Just because you weren't the only person who swallowed Sinclair's self-promotional propaganda doesn't confirm him as the genius he went around telling everybody that he was, or that he was anywhere as influential as some (including himself) make him out to be. I'm sure that our esteemed prime minister can find all sorts of people that agree with him, that does not make him necessarily correct. Comparing a Sinclair calculator to an HP calculator is like comparing a 1980s Lada to a Rolls-Royce Silver Ghost, if the former cost 20% of the latter, you were ripped off.

Both the HP35 and Sinclair Scientific were "aimed" at replacing slide rules. As was the norm:
  • the -hp- product significantly exceeded its objectives
  • the Sinclair product barely met them
Nonetheless, the Sinclair Scientific was significant and influential and a remarkable achievement.
Precisely, clearly if costs are removed to meet a price that is affordable, something has to give. I really doubt that anyone would have brought a Sinclair product if they had the means to get one of the other main stream products. My argument has always been that as an inventor etc, he is getting an undeserved bad press. Compare Sinclair with Steve Jobs as an example, Jobs set out from the get go to develop a flagship product at flagship prices and gets highly thought of, whereas Sinclair set off in the opposite direction, trying to bring to the less well-heeled people products that would enrich their lives at an affordable price point, and he seems to be getting disrespected for that. Not everyone can be a high earner and thus afford the better things in life.
Who let Murphy in?

Brymen-Fluke-HP-Thurlby-Thander-Tek-Extech-Black Star-GW-Avo-Kyoritsu-Amprobe-ITT-Robin-TTi
 

Online tggzzz

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #102242 on: September 18, 2021, 09:50:21 pm »
Has anyone else seen Daves new video? He is going to be restoring his Sinclair C5 in memory of Sir Clive Sinclair and Dave also said that he made consumer electronics affordable to the masses by building down to a price point and his pocket calculator was just 20% of the price of its comparable HP35, reaffirming my points about him making them affordable and even in some cases achieving what HP said was impossible. Anyway, watch the video, he makes many valid points and so many today owe a lot to Sinclairs products for inspiring them into getting them into the industry.

Just because you weren't the only person who swallowed Sinclair's self-promotional propaganda doesn't confirm him as the genius he went around telling everybody that he was, or that he was anywhere as influential as some (including himself) make him out to be. I'm sure that our esteemed prime minister can find all sorts of people that agree with him, that does not make him necessarily correct. Comparing a Sinclair calculator to an HP calculator is like comparing a 1980s Lada to a Rolls-Royce Silver Ghost, if the former cost 20% of the latter, you were ripped off.

Both the HP35 and Sinclair Scientific were "aimed" at replacing slide rules. As was the norm:
  • the -hp- product significantly exceeded its objectives
  • the Sinclair product barely met them
Nonetheless, the Sinclair Scientific was significant and influential and a remarkable achievement.
Precisely, clearly if costs are removed to meet a price that is affordable, something has to give. I really doubt that anyone would have brought a Sinclair product if they had the means to get one of the other main stream products. My argument has always been that as an inventor etc, he is getting an undeserved bad press. Compare Sinclair with Steve Jobs as an example, Jobs set out from the get go to develop a flagship product at flagship prices and gets highly thought of, whereas Sinclair set off in the opposite direction, trying to bring to the less well-heeled people products that would enrich their lives at an affordable price point, and he seems to be getting disrespected for that. Not everyone can be a high earner and thus afford the better things.

In many cases his bad reputation was self-inflicted. Consider his audioamps in the 60s, the black watch, the microdrives, to name but a few.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less
 

Offline Specmaster

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #102243 on: September 18, 2021, 10:10:20 pm »
Has anyone else seen Daves new video? He is going to be restoring his Sinclair C5 in memory of Sir Clive Sinclair and Dave also said that he made consumer electronics affordable to the masses by building down to a price point and his pocket calculator was just 20% of the price of its comparable HP35, reaffirming my points about him making them affordable and even in some cases achieving what HP said was impossible. Anyway, watch the video, he makes many valid points and so many today owe a lot to Sinclairs products for inspiring them into getting them into the industry.

Just because you weren't the only person who swallowed Sinclair's self-promotional propaganda doesn't confirm him as the genius he went around telling everybody that he was, or that he was anywhere as influential as some (including himself) make him out to be. I'm sure that our esteemed prime minister can find all sorts of people that agree with him, that does not make him necessarily correct. Comparing a Sinclair calculator to an HP calculator is like comparing a 1980s Lada to a Rolls-Royce Silver Ghost, if the former cost 20% of the latter, you were ripped off.

Both the HP35 and Sinclair Scientific were "aimed" at replacing slide rules. As was the norm:
  • the -hp- product significantly exceeded its objectives
  • the Sinclair product barely met them
Nonetheless, the Sinclair Scientific was significant and influential and a remarkable achievement.
Precisely, clearly if costs are removed to meet a price that is affordable, something has to give. I really doubt that anyone would have brought a Sinclair product if they had the means to get one of the other main stream products. My argument has always been that as an inventor etc, he is getting an undeserved bad press. Compare Sinclair with Steve Jobs as an example, Jobs set out from the get go to develop a flagship product at flagship prices and gets highly thought of, whereas Sinclair set off in the opposite direction, trying to bring to the less well-heeled people products that would enrich their lives at an affordable price point, and he seems to be getting disrespected for that. Not everyone can be a high earner and thus afford the better things.

In many cases his bad reputation was self-inflicted. Consider his audioamps in the 60s, the black watch, the microdrives, to name but a few.
Oh hell yes, the audio amps I believe featured many of those Plessey reject transistors, not that they were totally useless but failed to meet the high standards that they demanded for their equipment. Some of them had short lives it would seem, but that was in the early days, and the black watch also did not like nylon shirts which was a popular material for shirts back then as well. That said, I still think that if people dig deep enough similar failures probably beset other companies as well, but because they weren't aiming at the consumer market, they were better able to keep failures under wraps, and they also had better resources being as they were a more established business, to move quickly and resolve the problems as they arose.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2021, 12:33:47 am by Specmaster »
Who let Murphy in?

Brymen-Fluke-HP-Thurlby-Thander-Tek-Extech-Black Star-GW-Avo-Kyoritsu-Amprobe-ITT-Robin-TTi
 

Offline mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #102244 on: September 18, 2021, 10:11:36 pm »
Quote from: mansaxel
  • Dijon mustard (Bornier, the best!)

Good lord you are telling me you are IMPORTING freaking mustard from France instead of just making it yourself ?! Talk about ecology !  ;D
Thank you for supporting our economy though ! Just like Dwagon with "Bonne Maman" confitures...

Other than the Volvo 5 pot in-line engine in my Renault, I am not sure I ever "imported" something from Sweden ?
But that alone was worth having Sweden on the map, so thank you !  :-+

I ain't importing Jack-shit. French jam on French toast in the French colonies, I'm just buying groceries.  :wtf:

mnem
Okay, maybe I imported a little French kissing as a youth... but that was entirely consentual!!!   >:D
« Last Edit: September 19, 2021, 12:45:24 am by mnementh »
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Offline mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #102245 on: September 19, 2021, 01:03:30 am »
   So... once I escaped the Discord, I was actually able to get a little work done...  :-DD

Here the lens assemblies are, side by side, and things do look a lot better on this one.


   Well, until you look a little closer.  :o Now, not so good.

But... backlighting with a flashlight doesn't show any actual breaks... Hmmmmm.


   I think I've found the culprit.

This loop of the FPC is supposed to be held fast by pegs in the lens body, but they don't stay put and no adhesive was used. Unlike the other end, this area is not held in place by other parts pressed against the FPC.

The mass of the connector and all appears to be enough to pull it loose, and I can see it wiggle just by tapping gently. So pretty much from day one, any vibration is translated into movement concentrated right where the FPC is folded over itself, a natural weak point.

If I were cynical, I might think that were deliberate to ensure turnover.  ;)


   

Here I've stabilized this part of the FPC with a drop of CA and accelerant. Not pretty, but at least I should be able to handle the lens assembly without a repeat failure. Maybe I'll even be able to confirm continuity.  :-//

mnem
*tinker-ily*
« Last Edit: September 19, 2021, 01:18:10 am by mnementh »
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Offline mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #102246 on: September 19, 2021, 01:52:25 am »


Allright... I'm going in...!  :scared:

Oh fuck me... there's nothing in the manual on servicing the optical assembly...   |O

mnem
*wibble*
« Last Edit: September 19, 2021, 02:46:51 am by mnementh »
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Offline Cerebus

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #102247 on: September 19, 2021, 02:48:29 am »
 :popcorn:
Anybody got a syringe I can use to squeeze the magic smoke back into this?
 
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Offline cyclin_al

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #102248 on: September 19, 2021, 04:13:38 am »
*groaaaannnnnnnnnnnnnn...*

mnem
can't... reach... soggy ol' boot dispenser... *whummmmp*

Saskia, avenge us. I know you have his coordinates saved in the Suborbital Crowbar Launcher...


Everybody should have noticed that every time mustelids are mentioned I stoataly can't resist making puns. I'll do it even if you badger me. By now it should be the OP you blame for giving me an opening.

Had to look up mustelids. Now I somehow miss Catweasel, Catweazle, or was it Catstoat ...
don't remember ...
Argh. Flat joke we would call it here ...

I had to look up mustelid also.
It turns out I need one of these temporarily. 

Some creature is digging holes in my septic system to make a home.  I think it is a rather shitty place to make a home.
So much so that I have filled in holes, blocked entrances, etc. to make such critter feel unwelcome in the hope that it would move elsewhere.  So far, the critter has just created alternate entrance holes...  |O
Staying up all night & day to throw soggy boots at it is not an appealing option.  I have better things to do, like TEA.  A mustelid probably has nothing better to do than lie in wait for the critter...
 

Offline cyclin_al

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #102249 on: September 19, 2021, 04:39:37 am »
If you've ever tried adjusting convergence on an old school CRT colour TV, you will know the definition of "iterative insanity"!  :D

I have. That is exactly the kind of experience I'm talking about. You over-tweak one just too far and you're back at the beginning.



BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

You simply have not lived until you've done survived the unholy convergence rituals necessary on a old Pioneer or Hitachi CRT projection set with analog panel.  :-DD

mnem
*speaks soothingly to the PTSD dwagon juddering in the deepest recesses of the tinkerdwagon's memories*
"there, there.... it's okay.... we'll never, ever have to do that again... we promise..."
:o
Yes, but here is the interesting bit, if someone hadn't done it that way in the first instance, we would not have the system that we have today, someone has to do the pioneering bit to start with and then others find a better way of doing parts of it and these parts all get put together and slowly but surely we end with the modern era products. It makes zero difference be it electrical, electronics, aviation, mechanical etc, the evolution is much the same.

Compare the Wright Bros early plane



to the A380, things have come a long way but in a series of small improvements done over the years by hundreds of people all improving just a small part of the whole thing each time, its called progress.



Why stop with the A380?  Just to illustrate your own point, progress has continued.  The A220 combines together all of the advances in transport aircraft made since the A380.


So much so that I went out and bought one of these for myself.  Seriously, it is a die-cast model of the same livery as this picture, purchased from Airbus at the A220 assembly plant.  For some particular reason, none of the full-time employees would even touch the models in this livery  :-DD ; they were all buying the ones with the A220 paint job.   Maybe I acquired a collectible?
« Last Edit: September 19, 2021, 04:44:03 am by cyclin_al »
 
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