Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[mnementh]

the problem is how good the gorilla with the 200lb Allen wrench...

There, FTFY... 

mnem
*adjustment via application of blunt force* 

[cyclin_al]

   Pssssst... replace them all with stainless steel hex-drive button head screws. Bring it into the 20th century, now that we're in the 21st. 

mnem
*agitating-ily*

Since you're living in Canada, you mean stainless steel Robertson screws, right?

Absolutely not!

I find them viscerally offensive... like square-headed bolts and nuts. They are just plain butt-ugleee!

At least the US has settled on Philips as their LCD fastener type (but is fast taking up Torx as the "upgrade" or most common "better" type over Allen/Hex-drive)... it's like Canada totally devolved with slotted and Robertson as pretty much the only fastener types aside from hex-head bolts. 

mnem
*blerk and a half*

That is how Canadians show their patriotism.  Robertson was the Canadian inventor that patented it.  Not sure if he actually was the first to come up with this...

I have no issue with good quality Robertson screws and drivers.  They work great; very common for outdoor structures like decks and stairs.

However, poor quality Robertson stuff is absolutely frustrating, which I have only found in the last few years.
The latest batch of drivers I bought are pure crap and are horrid to work with; these came from a so-called quality brand.
Luckily, I found some old drivers in Grandma's barn ... they work great; keeping them for screws where I might need to re-use.

Recently, Robertson screws have been coming with anodizing/coating/paint over-applied and filling the head.  This makes it hard to properly fit the driver, or if it does fit, makes it difficult to drive straight.

[mnementh]

(screw-heads)
mnem
*blerk and a half*

Why do things half-assed? Bristol Spline, that's the way forward!

Is that the proper name for all the funky E6-E22 sized socket sets I've had to buy in the last 15 years or so for brake work and those horrible torque-to-fail head bolts...?

Or is it that other kind which is like halfway between those and proper Torx...?

mnem
We moved gigatons of materiel halfway around the world and fought two World Wars with hex-head bolts and slotted screws... do we REALLY need more?

[Cerebus]

(screw-heads)
mnem
*blerk and a half*

Why do things half-assed? Bristol Spline, that's the way forward!

Well, if you take the argument that more, smaller, contact points is better, to its logical conclusion you get to a shrink fit:



If one were to do that with machines screws it would be a bugger to heat the screw to release it from the driver after you'd tightened it. 

[mnementh]

   Pssssst... replace them all with stainless steel hex-drive button head screws. Bring it into the 20th century, now that we're in the 21st. 

mnem
*agitating-ily*

Since you're living in Canada, you mean stainless steel Robertson screws, right?

Absolutely not!

I find them viscerally offensive... like square-headed bolts and nuts. They are just plain butt-ugleee!

At least the US has settled on Philips as their LCD fastener type (but is fast taking up Torx as the "upgrade" or most common "better" type over Allen/Hex-drive)... it's like Canada totally devolved with slotted and Robertson as pretty much the only fastener types aside from hex-head bolts. 

mnem
*blerk and a half*

That is how Canadians show their patriotism.  Robertson was the Canadian inventor that patented it.  Not sure if he actually was the first to come up with this...

I have no issue with good quality Robertson screws and drivers.  They work great; very common for outdoor structures like decks and stairs.

However, poor quality Robertson stuff is absolutely frustrating, which I have only found in the last few years.
The latest batch of drivers I bought are pure crap and are horrid to work with; these came from a so-called quality brand.
Luckily, I found some old drivers in Grandma's barn ... they work great; keeping them for screws where I might need to re-use.

Recently, Robertson screws have been coming with anodizing/coating/paint over-applied and filling the head.  This makes it hard to properly fit the driver, or if it does fit, makes it difficult to drive straight.

Yeah, I'm not talking aboot their value as a driver/fastener interface; I've read numerous dissertations on how they compare to Hex, Torx, JIS and Philips screws as far as how much force they can actually apply to a screw without stripping out.

I just think they're ugly, like a square nut or square-headed bolt. 

EDIT: One real, material annoyance I have found with Robertson: They are much harder to clean out properly when contaminated with dirt/paint/rust in the hole vs Allen/Hex drive. The latter seems to be the sweet spot in all the popular faster interfaces for being easy to clean out with pretty much any scrap of wire or splinter of metal so you can get a good bite with a driver.

mnem
 

[mansaxel]

(screw-heads)
mnem
*blerk and a half*

Why do things half-assed? Bristol Spline, that's the way forward!

Is that the proper name for all the funky E6-E22 sized socket sets I've had to buy in the last 15 years or so for brake work and those horrible torque-to-fail head bolts...?

Or is it that other kind which is like halfway between those and proper Torx...?

Noo, look at their own "about" webpage: https://bristolwrench.com/about/

We moved gigatons of materiel halfway around the world and fought two World Wars with hex-head bolts and slotted screws... do we REALLY need more?

Am currently reading the official history of the Ordnance Department of US Army during WW2. It wasn't that easy.  Even if they, as they did, have Philips head screws for round 2.

TBH I am quite OK with Torx. There's a lot of it in my car, and in quite exposed places at that. It works. Better than hex-head, and tons better than slot.

[Cerebus]

(screw-heads)
mnem
*blerk and a half*

Why do things half-assed? Bristol Spline, that's the way forward!

Is that the proper name for all the funky E6-E22 sized socket sets I've had to buy in the last 15 years or so for brake work and those horrible torque-to-fail head bolts...?

Or is it that other kind which is like halfway between those and proper Torx...?

mnem
We moved gigatons of materiel halfway around the world and fought two World Wars with hex-head bolts and slotted screws... do we REALLY need more?

THE E6 etc. are the torx (properly hexalobular) profile on the outside of the fastener head, like a hex bolt. Bristol spline is another internal driving socket in the fastener head like allen et al.


Bristol (showing a fastener head):


Exterior hexalobular (showing the driver socket):

[mnementh]

Ugghh... yeah, that's the bastard. That one is too "grippy". Even the E-series sockets come on & off of bolts easily. Those Bristols are like a total bitch-mode precision-machined surface and always pull the socket off your ratchet. 

mnem
 

[Neper]

Unendlich ist des Schlossers Kraft,
wenn er sich einen Hebel schafft.

(Immeasurable is the mechanic's force when he finds himself a lever.)

[cyclin_al]

Boy I thought the may subject was your first tub scope, I must have been wrong !

   I guess some of us are like cats, getting distracted by whatever is shiny and ... ooh new topic in the thread.

I looked up some information on the RM564.  In theory, this one is all tubes.  The RM564B is the later solid state version.

I like the form factor and overall size to fit into a rack.
For comparison, a RM585 is a huge monster.

Tekwiki indicates that the plug-ins drive the deflection plates directly. I noted that means calibrating/adjusting each plug-in for the scope.
However, is the driver circuitry something to bang my head on over and over with each plug-in?
I assume if the driver circuitry is on the mainframe like in other Tek families, then it only has to be dealt with once.

There are no cool alternate phosphor colours for the CRT, just the possibility of one with a faster writing rate.

Is there a way to interpret Tektronix serial numbers?  I know we have a guide for HP test equipment, but I have not found such a guide for Tektronix.
RM564 Mainframe is "001205".
I have the list of plug-ins:
- Type 2B67 quantity 2 (time base)
- Type 3A72 (650 kHz dual trace)
- Type 63 (300 kHz differential amp)

[mnementh]

Unendlich ist des Schlossers Kraft,
wenn er sich einen Hebel schafft.

(Immeasurable is the mechanic's force when he finds himself a lever.)

No, that's not what I'm talking aboot.

One of the biggest recurring annoyances for a mechanic is having a socket stick on the nut/bolt, pulling it off the spring/ball detent of the ratchet. So much so, they developed a semi-locking mechanism for the ratchet, but it greatly weakens the square drive anvil in comparison to the older spring/ball design.

mnem
 

[mnementh]

(screw-heads)
mnem
*blerk and a half*

Why do things half-assed? Bristol Spline, that's the way forward!

Is that the proper name for all the funky E6-E22 sized socket sets I've had to buy in the last 15 years or so for brake work and those horrible torque-to-fail head bolts...?

Or is it that other kind which is like halfway between those and proper Torx...?

Noo, look at their own "about" webpage: https://bristolwrench.com/about/

We moved gigatons of materiel halfway around the world and fought two World Wars with hex-head bolts and slotted screws... do we REALLY need more?

Am currently reading the official history of the Ordnance Department of US Army during WW2. It wasn't that easy.  Even if they, as they did, have Philips head screws for round 2.

TBH I am quite OK with Torx. There's a lot of it in my car, and in quite exposed places at that. It works. Better than hex-head, and tons better than slot.

Are you sure aboot them having Philips...? It was my understanding that Philips was developed by GM in the 50s-60s as a torque limiting device to prevent assembly-line stalls when some over-eager worker over-tightened small screws and had to replace things like window regulators, etc.

The correctly-manufactured Philips screw is actually quite hard, so the amount of force applied is entirely a matter of the geometry of the driver vs friction and the torque needed to make the driver "cam-out", not the shear strength of the metal lobes.

So maybe more Korean War or Viet Nam era?

mnem
 

[Robert763]

(screw-heads)
mnem
*blerk and a half*

Why do things half-assed? Bristol Spline, that's the way forward!

Is that the proper name for all the funky E6-E22 sized socket sets I've had to buy in the last 15 years or so for brake work and those horrible torque-to-fail head bolts...?

Or is it that other kind which is like halfway between those and proper Torx...?

mnem
We moved gigatons of materiel halfway around the world and fought two World Wars with hex-head bolts and slotted screws... do we REALLY need more?

THE E6 etc. are the torx (properly hexalobular) profile on the outside of the fastener head, like a hex bolt. Bristol spline is another internal driving socket in the fastener head like allen et al.


Bristol (showing a fastener head):


Exterior hexalobular (showing the driver socket):

Bristol spline is found on jukebokes and Collins avionics
In addition to Torx and Spline there is RIBE that is used by FIAT nd some european GM cars. Often bodged with the wrong tool.

[Cerebus]

(screw-heads)
mnem
*blerk and a half*

Why do things half-assed? Bristol Spline, that's the way forward!

Is that the proper name for all the funky E6-E22 sized socket sets I've had to buy in the last 15 years or so for brake work and those horrible torque-to-fail head bolts...?

Or is it that other kind which is like halfway between those and proper Torx...?

Noo, look at their own "about" webpage: https://bristolwrench.com/about/

We moved gigatons of materiel halfway around the world and fought two World Wars with hex-head bolts and slotted screws... do we REALLY need more?

Am currently reading the official history of the Ordnance Department of US Army during WW2. It wasn't that easy.  Even if they, as they did, have Philips head screws for round 2.

TBH I am quite OK with Torx. There's a lot of it in my car, and in quite exposed places at that. It works. Better than hex-head, and tons better than slot.

Are you sure aboot them having Philips...? It was my understanding that Philips was developed by GM in the 50s-60s as a torque limiting device to prevent assembly-line stalls when some over-eager worker over-tightened small screws and had to replace things like window regulators, etc.

The correctly-manufactured Philips screw is actually quite hard, so the amount of force applied is entirely a matter of the geometry of the driver vs friction and the torque needed to make the driver "cam-out", not the shear strength of the metal lobes.

So maybe more Korean War or Viet Nam era?

mnem
 

The Phillips design was created in the 30's by John Thompson and the design afterwards sold to the eponymous Phillips. Original 1932 patent here: https://www.freepatentsonline.com/2046837.pdf

[Cubdriver]

(screw-heads)
mnem
*blerk and a half*

Why do things half-assed? Bristol Spline, that's the way forward!

Is that the proper name for all the funky E6-E22 sized socket sets I've had to buy in the last 15 years or so for brake work and those horrible torque-to-fail head bolts...?

Or is it that other kind which is like halfway between those and proper Torx...?

Noo, look at their own "about" webpage: https://bristolwrench.com/about/

We moved gigatons of materiel halfway around the world and fought two World Wars with hex-head bolts and slotted screws... do we REALLY need more?

Am currently reading the official history of the Ordnance Department of US Army during WW2. It wasn't that easy.  Even if they, as they did, have Philips head screws for round 2.

TBH I am quite OK with Torx. There's a lot of it in my car, and in quite exposed places at that. It works. Better than hex-head, and tons better than slot.

Are you sure aboot them having Philips...? It was my understanding that Philips was developed by GM in the 50s-60s as a torque limiting device to prevent assembly-line stalls when some over-eager worker over-tightened small screws and had to replace things like window regulators, etc.

The correctly-manufactured Philips screw is actually quite hard, so the amount of force applied is entirely a matter of the geometry of the driver vs friction and the torque needed to make the driver "cam-out", not the shear strength of the metal lobes.

So maybe more Korean War or Viet Nam era?

mnem
 

Based on what I can find, the Phillips drive was patented in 1932, and first used by Cadillac in 1936.  According to the link below, it had spread into a lot of the rest of the automotive industry over the next ten years.  That said, for cruciform head screws, I've become rather fond of the Pozidriv that HP used in a lot of things in the 60s/70s - they grip very well with the correct driver (and if they haven't been too buggered up by people jamming Phillips drivers into them).  I like Robertson and Torx for wood and deck screws.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/car-accessories/a33490602/phillips-head-screwdriver-history/

-Pat

[mansaxel]

Based on what I can find, the Phillips drive was patented in 1932, and first used by Cadillac in 1936.  According to the link below, it had spread into a lot of the rest of the automotive industry over the next ten years.  That said, for cruciform head screws, I've become rather fond of the Pozidriv that HP used in a lot of things in the 60s/70s - they grip very well with the correct driver (and if they haven't been too buggered up by people jamming Phillips drivers into them).  I like Robertson and Torx for wood and deck screws.

Add one for the Pozidriv club. Better grip. But it is not a large difference, provided only the correct tool has been used in a Phillips head.

[AVGresponding]

Tool of the day

Plastic Razor Blade Scraper

useful for not damaging plastic surface or carve a glass bed when removing the 3d prints

I have a box of them, good quality glass filled ones, and I have a box of single sided razor blades, plus several holders for them. Half the time the plastic blades are just the tool for the job, but half the time I start out trying to scrape something with one of the plastic ones I end up going back and getting a steel single sided razor blade out to finish the job. The problem with the plastic blades is that above a certain level of force needed to get the job done the edge just isn't strong enough and deforms below the level of pressure required for the job in hand.

Definitely something to have in one's armoury but get a box of single sided razor blades at the same time.

Yebbutt remember... just because they're plastic doesn't mean they're harmless. The good ones are still a effing sharp blade; I've learned respect for them the hard way a few times.

mnem
 

What you really need is one of those warranty-mooning teflon ones that AvE made.

[dl6lr]

Unendlich ist des Schlossers Kraft,
wenn er sich einen Hebel schafft.

(Immeasurable is the mechanic's force when he finds himself a lever.)

to complete the german poem:


Der Schlosser schafft,
Der Hebel wächst,
Es steigt die Kraft,
Die Schraube ächzt.

*KRACKS* *AB*

Zu spät merkt seine Großhirnrinde:
Die Schraube trug ein Linksgewinde!


Of course this is untranslatable...

(The mechanics works, the lever grows, the force increases, the bolt groans. *CRACK*  Too late he recognizes: The bolt was left-hand threaded!)

[factory]

I AM SCREWED !!!!!   I mean I am REALLY screwed !!!   


... trying to order brand new H/W nut and screws to replace all the rusty ones in my Tek 575 curve tracer.

It's a nightmare.. have to learn all the English screw related stuff, my goodness 

All US not English threads.
Look up sub 1/4" UNC and UNF sizes.

Are you kidding me ?! The US do NOT use the same designation as the UK ?! So I can't even find the proper screws in the UK, have to pay to import them from some US vendor ?!  OH MY !!! 

I've used https://www.accu.co.uk/en/ for UNC & UNF, you should be able to find almost everything you want there, don't know about the nuts with the star washer attached, never looked for those before. Probably only do stainless too, zinc plated steel seems impossible to get over here.

I've mostly bought CSK case screws & grub screws for HP TE from them.
Only problem I noticed last year was, some items the minimum quantity had gone up.

David

Watch yourself with accu.co.uk. A lot of their stuff is 'manufacture to order' or just plain insanely priced and if you aren't aware what the price for a particular part ought to be you can end up paying 100x what the parts ought to cost each. e.g. In their current stock "M3 X 8mm T10 Torx Low Cap Head Screws (ISO 14580) - Stainless Steel (A2)" £0.40 each (ex VAT)! Last time I bought some of those it cost me £7.15 (inc VAT) for a 100 from a sane supplier. Accu's prices can go down to sensible if you order enough of each part, but be cautious or you may get ripped off!

Only ever used them to buy UNC/UNF, got more metric crap than I'll ever need, from all the modern e-waste that my brother keeps finding in the dumpster. 
Do take note that the made to order items from Accu will delay the entire order. 


David

[factory]

So the TL/DR: Vince is screwed... and we're all NUTS!

mnem

No, sorry the locals have already claimed that title. 


David

[mnementh]

Based on what I can find, the Phillips drive was patented in 1932, and first used by Cadillac in 1936.  According to the link below, it had spread into a lot of the rest of the automotive industry over the next ten years.  That said, for cruciform head screws, I've become rather fond of the Pozidriv that HP used in a lot of things in the 60s/70s - they grip very well with the correct driver (and if they haven't been too buggered up by people jamming Phillips drivers into them).  I like Robertson and Torx for wood and deck screws.

Add one for the Pozidriv club. Better grip. But it is not a large difference, provided only the correct tool has been used in a Phillips head.

I've never had issue with Phiplips either, as long as I'm the only one who's ever been at the fastener. I make it a habit to keep my driver fresh & sharp, and I know to apply sufficient downward force while driving. 

mnem
 

[mansaxel]

No, sorry the locals have already claimed that title. 

Yeah, it's hard to be a glorified railway junction with a closed steam engine factory. No surprises.

[mansaxel]

I've never had issue with Phiplips either, as long as I'm the only one who's ever been at the fastener. I make it a habit to keep my driver fresh & sharp, and I know to apply sufficient downward force while driving. 

That's the problem which is solved by for instance Torx. They won't cam out. I do agree with you in principle, the Phillips works well if treated well. But it still needs pressure. And thats a dilution of effort I'd rather not do.

Edit: A good way towards solving the cam-out is using JIS screwdrivers, preferably "Vessel" brand. They don't cam out nearly as easy, neither on actual JIS heads nor on standard Phillips.

[Neper]

I've never had issue with Phiplips either, as long as I'm the only one who's ever been at the fastener.

This very nicely sums up the main problem with all those cross-head screws, particularly in vintage equipment: They've seen too many wrong screwdrivers before they reach us.

[Saskia]

had a torx bit break on me while trying to remove a screw. And I was pushing in the right direction ...