Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[TERRA Operative]

Could somebody help me with this addiction? With all the ideas floating around in my head I see me falling into a rabbit hole that costs more and more money.

Nope, I have no advice to give except earn more money.

Soon you'll be like me, buying gear to calibrate your gear to calibrate the gear you actually want to use. I'm currently at least 4 layers deep for some equipment at this point, with no indication of slowing down.....   

You'll know when you are truly in deep when you start buying stuff you don't even need just because it's cheap, or shiny, or 'just because'.... Someone^{pleaseHelpmeeeeeeee!}

[tonyalbus]

You'll know when you are truly in deep when you start buying stuff you don't even need just because it's cheap, or shiny, or 'just because'.... Someone^{pleaseHelpmeeeeeeee!}

 

and on top of that, you don't have the space for it either

[cyclin_al]

As I predicted it's getting closer. 2 C here this morning. Albany, 70 miles north, 1 C. Saratoga Springs, 30 miles north of Albany, -1 C. Winter is coming. 

Lake Placid in the Adirondacks is -2 C.

Not far away in the GWN, we have already had heavy frost a couple of times.
Remnants of the garden are surviving only because I have been covering it up with a tarp at night.

Winter tires required in slightly less than 3 weeks now.  That and car rustproofing (ok, it only slows it down, not proofing) are still on the ToDo list...

[Robert763]

According to my 1990/1991 Farnell catalogue the 27 was the second most expensive hand held Fluke at £279.
 A 87 was  one pound cheaper at £278. A 73 was £76 and a 77 £139. A huge difference in cost and performance for similar looking meters.
And the most expensive? My favorite, the 8060A at  £371.
All thes price were plus 17.5% tax. So the retail cost of a 27 was £327, a 73 £89 and the 8060A £435.

Edit, the 75 was £108 (£127 retail) so the 27 was £200 more retail, > than two and a half times the 75.

According to the Bank of England's inflation calculator, the retail pricing works out to a hair over £760 now and converted to C$, that's just over $1293.  That's...not cheap...  The surplus Fluke 27 kits are definitely a great buy for sure.  I know I'm not having any buyer's remorse, especially seeing what the original pricing looks like adjusted for inflation to today.

Makes me wonder what the cal cost on top of that, for units that got it...

mnem
 

At that time traceable calibration prices were:
73/75/77 £30
27 or 89 £35
8060 £40

[Andrew_Debbie]

At that time traceable calibration prices were:
73/75/77 £30
27 or 89 £35
8060 £40

Anyone have a rough guess on what calibration / adjustment on my Dana 5100 would be?  That is assuming I can find someone willing to do it.   (5 1/2 digit dmm)    I have no use for certificates but do want to know it is accurate.

[AVGresponding]

At that time traceable calibration prices were:
73/75/77 £30
27 or 89 £35
8060 £40

Anyone have a rough guess on what calibration / adjustment on my Dana 5100 would be?  That is assuming I can find someone willing to do it.   (5 1/2 digit dmm)    I have no use for certificates but do want to know it is accurate.

It's not just the fact it's 5.5 digit, it's the basic accuracy; it's as good on that meter as a decent 6.5 digit, so that's likely the price you'd pay at a lab.

Adjustment, as we know all too well, would be another matter...

Since BU508A and ch_scr both hang out in the metrology dungeon, maybe they know if there's metrology meets in the UK like there are in Germany, where you can turn up and a friendly fellow nerd with an HP3458A will simultaneously verify your meter and leave you green with envy.

[AVGresponding]

there is an easy fix. 50 grams should do nicely.

This particular FIAT makes noises like it runs on that stuff already:

[ch_scr]

Update on the LEM Memobox: With the help of an null modem adapter and a gender changer, it will talk to the "PQLog" software - and it immediately tells me it wants a license 

[mnementh]

LEMbox being interrogated via serial: "I want my lawyer." 

Are you sure you really want to dig any deeper...?

mnem
"Also, my IGFETs are cold."

[cyclin_al]

Thanks for the clarification, though. I probably can tease a tea-dumper a bit more calling his sedan a saloon, so will adapt language for maximum cheekyness.

Tease all you want. My Civic is a 2 door coupe (not a sedan) and the CR-V is an SUV. And if I want a drink I'll go to the local saloon. 

No, it's a 2-door sedan; it has back seats. A coupe has 2 doors, 2 seats only.

mnem
*has owned 11 Honda Civics, and every one a sedan. Or wagon.*

No I can't give you that one because coupe refers more to the styling of the roofline than the number of seats the car has, here we see photos of the Rover 3.5 Litre V8 saloon and coupe, but both are luxury 4 seater cars, used by Royalty and dignitaries alike.

Where is Vince on this one?  We need official interpretation of a french word.
He is building his garage his way, to fit whatever car he wants, regardless if it is coupe or sedan... or scope...

Styling of the roofline makes sense in this case.  Coupe comes, AFAIK, from the word coupé, which means something (roofline) was cut off (couper = to cut).

[ch_scr]

LEMbox being interrogated via serial: "I want my lawyer." 

Are you sure you really want to dig any deeper...?

mnem
"Also, my IGFETs are cold."

To me it looks like the PQLog wants the license, and the message is worded like that as well. Too bad it's the ONLY software for these I managed to find and TEquipment.net does not seem interested in my email (not that surprising as I am not a paying customer of them but still...) telling them their downloads are dead
Edit: Well, their support chat is manned and has forwarded the issue to the appropriate team. If you want something go through live chat I guess. 

[Robert763]

As for ugly, I see your Pacer and raise you  a Multipla.

Are there ANY Fiats that aren't fugly? 

The Dino comes to mind 
(it's a coupe)
I always liked my Croma
(big waggon)

 

[Robert763]

A couple of weeks back, we had quite a discussion about Sinclair in this thread, and it brought out a lot of polarisation about Sinclair himself and his often corner cutting price slashing designs and the lack of reliability as a result. Well as it so happens, there is often another side of the equation that not many people ever get to discover, there was another bespoke up market side to Sinclair, and that was making special electronic car instrumentation for some top car marques, Aston Martin is one of them. Now I never knew that, it seems that there are a few Aston Martin Lagonda cars made in the 80's, scattered across the globe that actually have instruments made by Sinclair in them.

This video gives some information about, however I think that this particular car ended up having some instruments fitted that were designed either for, or by the company that designed instruments for the McDonnell Douglas F-15 Eagle fighter jet. 

This is a car that I one time lusted after, safe in the knowledge that I'd never be able to afford one unless I came into loads of money. 

Aston Martin had to get a special dispensation for the type approval on the Lagonda. The Construction and Use regulations of the time specifically forbade having a CRT where the driver could see it.........

[AVGresponding]

Aston Martin had to get a special dispensation for the type approval on the Lagonda. The Construction and Use regulations of the time specifically forbade having a CRT where the driver could see it.........

They needn't have bothered; the failure rate meant the driver was unlikely to see it anyway!   





There are several variations of dashboard on these, including VFD (that one's for me!), and one had red LEDs, which would keep Specmaster the happiest...   

[Specmaster]

there is an easy fix. 50 grams should do nicely.

This particular FIAT makes noises like it runs on that stuff already:

Best to keep a healthy distance from the straw bails in that Fiat, (Fire Is A Threat) 

[mansaxel]

Where is Vince on this one?  We need official interpretation of a french word.

In French, "Sedan" is a castle. "Coupe" is a unit of dessert. "Une coupe de glace, SVP"

Hope I've put "un coup de graçe" into this particular discussion in favour of TE talk..

And no, I'm trying not for official Frenchness, but rather for effect! 

[Vince]

Where is Vince on this one?  We need official interpretation of a french word.

Was hoping to stay away from OT stuff from now on, but if people are talking to me I guess it would be rude to ignore them so....

Styling of the roofline makes sense in this case.  Coupe comes, AFAIK, from the word coupé, which means something (roofline) was cut off (couper = to cut).

Basically that's it, congratulations ! 

" Coupe " does not come from " Coupé ".. it's the same word but the yanks as always are too lazy so first thing they do with French words is to drop the accents because it makes it easier for them.  Just like people say " Cafe " instead of " Café ", for example.  Then they start concatenating the words to make it a single word... like  " Dejavu ", which is normally two words + two accents : " Déjà vu ". (meaning " already seen ") Etc etc...

Or when they say "Cab" as a short for " Cabriolet ".

As for Station Wagon versus Estate.... in France we say " a Break car "...  Break sounds English but since even the Brits or Yanks don't use it, no sure why we use this word !      Maybe that was our way long ago to shorten " Shooting break " ?!... who knows.

[Specmaster]

Aston Martin had to get a special dispensation for the type approval on the Lagonda. The Construction and Use regulations of the time specifically forbade having a CRT where the driver could see it.........

They needn't have bothered; the failure rate meant the driver was unlikely to see it anyway!   





There are several variations of dashboard on these, including VFD (that one's for me!), and one had red LEDs, which would keep Specmaster the happiest...   

Either the VFD or the LED TBH and I'd be happy.

Here is some info on this model , 1987


And here we have the 2018 model, which at the time was the world's most expensive luxury car.

[AVGresponding]

Blah, you can keep the 2018 version with its silly wheels and lack of anything resembling individuality.

[Vince]

In French, "Sedan" is a castle.

Nope, a Castle in French is " a Château ".   "Sedan" is just the name of the town that particular castle happens to be located at...

  "Coupe" is a unit of dessert. "Une coupe de glace, SVP"

"coupe" as a noun not a verb, just means " a cup ". You can have a coupe of champagne wine typically, or a coupe also means " a trophey ", the big shiny thing the winner agitates over his head on the podium while he is flooded with a giant bottle of champagne.... well that's what they used to do in Formula one in the old time ?! Have not watched F1 or any motorsport for 20+ years so not sure if that's still current practice...

0We have expression with this word too, like  " La coupe est pleine ", meaning " The cup is fuil "meaning " I am done ", " I have had enough of this crap ".

Of course as a noun also means what the verb means. Relates to they way something is cut/shaped.

Hope I've put "un coup de graçe"

" Grace " not " Graçe " 

[Neper]

We need official interpretation of a french word.

I'm not Vince, but Larousse (the French dictionary) offers the following definitions:

1. Ancienne forme de carrosserie comportant, à l'avant, le siège du chauffeur et, à l'arrière, une caisse fermée.
Old style vehicle body with a driver's seat at the front and a closed cabin behind.

2. Caisse comportant deux grandes portes latérales et deux places principales, avec quelquefois deux petites places arrière.
Vehicle body with two big lateral doors and two main seats, sometimes with two small back seats.

3. Véhicule hippomobile fermé, à quatre roues et à deux places, avec deux portières vitrées et un siège à l'avant pour le cocher.
Closed horse-drawn carriage with four wheels, two passenger seats, two doors with windows, and a front bench for the coachman.

4. Partie antérieure d'une diligence.
Front section of a stagecoach.

In my book, it's definition 2. YMMV.

" Grace " not " Graçe " 

Pas plutôt 'grâce' ? 

[Vince]

We need official interpretation of a french word.

I'm not Vince, but Larousse (the French dictionary) offers the following definitions:

Actually The Larousse is NOT " the" dictionary... quite the opposite it's a very complacent dictionary that every year incorporates completely silly words just because the random clueless uneducated joe in the street uses them... then moves on two years later but too late they are now polluting the dictionary and won't be taken away from it before at least 25 years...

Better / more serious dictionary would be the " Robert ".

[Neper]

Better / more serious dictionnary would the " Robert ".

Which in my book (pun intended) has always been the less respectable one of the two.

[Vince]

" Grace " not " Graçe " 

Pas plutôt 'grâce' ? 

Yes you are perfectly right... I was simply focusing on the most obvious/serious problem, which was this 'c' cédille that doesn't need to be there. But yes, the accent circonflexe  also needs to be there. You get a cookie.

[factory]

Some more digging into the -hp- 5245L with serial prefix 408:

Replaced some capacitors without much gain in terms of fixed issues. Counter is counting in CHECK and START mode on the last digit only. So measured the gate from the first decimal counter assembly A17(4), which is mainly working as the display assembly A18 is showing the correct counts, and found it to be stuck at +20V. WTF? The output is expected to be pulsed -15V/0V and the input on A16( is expected to have a coupling capacitor.

So I pulled out all other decimal counter assemblies A10 to A16. output A17(4) is -15V without pulses. So checked the A16 assembly and found it is missing the coupling capacitor but goes direct to a clamping diode to +20V (similar to the boards A10 to A14). I already observed a difference in board population, the service manual says the boards A10 to A14 should be 5212L-4A and A15/A16 should be 05232-6010. In my device the boards were populated A10=05232-6010 and A11 to A16 are 05212-6016. The latter are not mentioned in any service manual I have and hp states them to be 600kc decimal counters only, so this one will not work in position A16 where 5Mc are expected. And I guess the former owner swapped boards without knowing that this caused havoc at the first decimal counter.

So tested the output stage of A17 and found Q9 to be dead (open emitter). Installed was a 2N2455, service manual says 1850-0163 which would be 2N2635. 2N2943 or 2N2048 should be fine too. But I have neither of them. Tried to replace with a silicon PNP without luck, have to measure the pulse at the base now.

A quick reply, I think all seven boards are replacements, the manual from Artek is a little newer.
I can't see how they wouldn't work at a lower speed, with the 5MHz board in the correct position, just you wouldn't get the full 50MC.

David

I have the artek manual for the 5245L issued 1965. I have the service manual from BAMA or KO4BB for instruments serial prefix 628 as well.  I see no signs of these board revisions. The artek manual however includes six revisions of the A15/A16 boards. And they state the two high speed boards to be used, maybe the boards 5212L-4A are even slower than the 600kc of the 05232-6016?

When I received the counter (serial prefix 408, clearly marked as defective) the higher speed board however was populated at the upper most digit, so getting the lowest frequency But board and nixie are defective, so I think he swapped the boards to get a 7 digit counter but broke the high speed decimal counter. Will try to fix the board (more than one digit is lighting) which should be doable unless the photocoupler assembly is bad.
On wednesday I get another 5245L with serial prefix 504, let's see what's inside

Manual prefix 408 has: five of 5212L-4A (low frequency) fitted for A10 to A14, two of 5232L-4B (5MC) fitted for A15 & A16, 5245A-65C for A17 and 5245L-4B for A18. These numbers should be printed on the chassis next to the connectors.

OK, your 5245L has definitely had a replacement set of boards, they match what is fitted to my 1840A prefix 5245L, six of 05212-6016 fitted for A10 to A15, one of 05232-6010 fitted for A16 and it has 5245L-4B for A18, ignore A17 as it's a lot newer.


I have manual prefix 716 that covers 05212-6016 (600KC) and 05232-6010 (5MC), can take pictures of the diagrams if needed.

Manual prefix 408 has A17 (5245A-65C) Q9 & Q10 as 1850-0102 = 2N2455.
Manual prefix 716 has A17 (5245A-65C) Q9 as 1850-0158, but no ordinary part given, Q10 same as above (2N2455).

Note: there are minor component value differences on boards with the same part number, this will be most confusing if the manual doesn't cover the prefix of the unit, or if later boards have been fitted. 

Has your 5245L been serviced by hp in the past maybe? and they fitted the newer boards. Then years later someone attempted a repair, by incorrectly swapping boards.

David