Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[Vince]

Can't believe it..... what are the odds of coming across such an odd device, HERE, never mind while we are discussing it ?!

I will probably never see another one for sale here, for sure !

Guy wants 25 Euros, that's like what, 20 pounds or something ??
Fair price  ?

Guy refuses to ship anyway, so neither you nor I will get it...

EDIT : OH !!  Just looked, by some miracle the seller actually lives nearby, like 25 miles away from me or so ! Hmmm... could pick it up for you if you want...

It is not as rare as you might think. I've seen several on Ebay Germany and was not very tempted.
But that depends on the needs and preferences.

Ah OK... was just the first time I saw one in France...
Well it's up to tggzzz, I am just offering my help should he want this one, trying to be nice that's all ! 

Personally yes, it's not my cup of TEA either, so I am not going to steal it from him.

[med6753]

@med6753: Just look out for hashtag concentrations like #stayoffmylawn

Nah, can't be bothered. But you still need to get off my lawn. 

[Vince]

Can't even reply to the dragon, was well motivated but the forum denies me this right : when I click on "Quote"... it quotes.... some random message but not the one I want to reply to.  Bloody forum...  I guess Dragon wins again. But since he said his wife always wins, I guess that explains why he needs TEA to vent all his frustration to balance things out and keep his dragon heart happy. It all makes sense now, I understand.... it's about universe equilibrium, it needs to be in equilibrium, it's a physical, fundamental requirement, there is absolutely no way around it. It's like conservation of energy.

This means it's all hopeless, fighting is useless, and we are all doomed.

Only way out is to leave TEA but I can't resort myself to doing that, as I have grown quite fond of this place already. I despise social media and don't use any... but objectively this TEA place is a social media of sorts.. so I guess I am no better than all the people I laugh at... I just needed to come across "my" type of social media... I guess.

Don't leave. I enjoy having you here. In fact, I enjoy everyone here including...ahem....the dragon when he stays off his soap box. 

I don't use social media either like Twitter, etc. Why would I? I've made it plain many times I hate people. I do have a Facebook page but only because I'm a member of an Old Tek Scopes group. I rarely post on my home page and even more rarely read the drivel other people post. When Facebook/Twitter went down several weeks ago I LMAO because all those numb nuts that update their status every 5 minutes were having shit fits.

If there were a page dedicated to grouchy old bastards I might consider joining but then again, I don't need justification for who am I. 

I shall stay Papa Smurf, I am hooked to this TEA thing. I don't read any forum, not even the rest of EEVBlog. TEA is the only web space I am willing to devote time checking and participating in... means a lot to me ! 

I will just have to constantly remind myself to never ever reply to Dwgon even when he is wrong or mean or provocative or or or or... I will probably need to consult a psychiatrist once a week to keep my sanity, but that's OK I will send the bill to Dwagon, he can pay me via Paypal, or via Dwagon Airline postal services... Dwagons fly after all, I am sure they can cross the Atlantic...

[mnementh]

Okay... seriously... what the hell are you on aboot Vince?

I've gone back over my posts and I can't see where I've said anything today that was more than topically contentious; the only thing I could see that could be even marginally offensive was me contriving to gently agitate Robert over doing everything his wife says. And that, I thought, was obvious friendly agitation.

mnem
Seriously... ?!?

[xrunner]

I shall stay Papa Smurf, I am hooked to this TEA thing. I don't read any forum, not even the rest of EEVBlog. TEA is the only web space I am willing to devote time checking and participating in... means a lot to me ! 

Yea Vince don't go!

I will just have to constantly remind myself to never ever reply to Dwgon even when he is wrong or mean or provocative or or or or... I will probably need to consult a psychiatrist once a week to keep my sanity, but that's OK I will send the bill to Dwagon, he can pay me via Paypal, or via Dwagon Airline postal services... Dwagons fly after all, I am sure they can cross the Atlantic...

One of the most powerful tools available on a forum - ignoring. 

[Vince]

Cng is cow farts at 200 bar. LPG is liquified propane/butane . Vol o offered both version the energy density of cow farts is considerably higher than LPG

Ah OK thanks for the details, didn't know you could have different kind of gases in these cars. Here at the pumps we have LPG, so according to Google, a mix of butane and propane, mostly, as you said. So cow gas is more energetic then ? That's cool... I mean they all say how cow farts is tremendously more dangerous for the ozone layer than CO2 emissions... so let's make use of it to power cars rather letting it blow a hole in the ozone layer ! 

[mansaxel]

New used car. V70 bifuel CNG 2007, 140 bhp 5 cyl. New roadworthiness test

Congratulations. I have the same vintage, but mine is the 136 kW AWD Diesel. Very attractive, grin-triggering Newton-meters available from 1800rmps. 

[Vince]

Guy refuses to ship anyway, so neither you nor I will get it...

So why does the listing say "Livraison : à partir de 10,99 €"

Because this website is completely fucked. It often automatically displays this "will ship for XX Euros " icon, REGARDLESS of what the seller actually specified !

That's why many sellers, including this one, in the ad description will clearly specify : " I DO NOT SHIP !!!!  ".

Then, there are the people, many of them, who simply don't know how to use a computer, nor how to read what's on the screen, so they just click " next next next next " ... until they are asked no more questions and their ad is finally online.... that's 80% of the people.

[ch_scr]

Cng is cow farts at 200 bar. LPG is liquified propane/butane . Vol o offered both version the energy density of cow farts is considerably higher than LPG

Ah OK thanks for the details, didn't know you could have different kind of gases in these cars. Here at the pumps we have LPG, so according to Google, a mix of butane and propane, mostly, as you said. So cow gas is more energetic then ? That's cool... I mean they all say how cow farts is tremendously more dangerous for the ozone layer than CO2 emissions... so let's make use of it to power cars rather letting it blow a hole in the ozone layer ! 

It's the usual media (over-)simplification with methane from cows - yes they always produce methane, yes methane is a more powerfull "greenhouse effect gas" than CO2 but a cow on a pasture feeding naturally has low emissions. A "high octane" milk cow that lives inside, gets fed much soy protein and other stuff to pump out 13000L milk a year - now that one has worrysome amounts of methane emission (and, TBH lives a shitty live IMHO). It does allow to fuel a biogas reactor from it's manure alone, that can be readily collected in such an environment - so it is exploited to the end, in a way...

[tautech]

Cng is cow farts at 200 bar. LPG is liquified propane/butane . Vol o offered both version the energy density of cow farts is considerably higher than LPG

Ah OK thanks for the details, didn't know you could have different kind of gases in these cars. Here at the pumps we have LPG, so according to Google, a mix of butane and propane, mostly, as you said. So cow gas is more energetic then ? That's cool... I mean they all say how cow farts is tremendously more dangerous for the ozone layer than CO2 emissions... so let's make use of it to power cars rather letting it blow a hole in the ozone layer ! 

It's the usual media (over-)simplification with methane from cows - yes they always produce methane, yes methane is a more powerfull "greenhouse effect gas" than CO2 but a cow on a pasture feeding naturally has low emissions. A "high octane" milk cow that lives inside, gets fed much soy protein and other stuff to pump out 13000L milk a year - now that one has worrysome amounts of methane emission (and, TBH lives a shitty live IMHO). It does allow to fuel a biogas reactor from it's manure alone, that can be readily collected in such an environment - so it is exploited to the end, in a way...

Why imply CNG is a agricultural byproduct when it's not ! 
As CNG's last 2 letters implies it's a natural gas from the bowels of the earth and a byproduct of oil wells and in many cases targeted from natural gas fields then compressed to provide better density and therefore greater range when used for ICE fuel. In low pressure form it's domestic and industrial fuel used for all manner of generally heating requirements.

Here I register my offence in CNG being associated with agricultural emissions !   

[ch_scr]

Cng is cow farts at 200 bar. LPG is liquified propane/butane . Vol o offered both version the energy density of cow farts is considerably higher than LPG

Ah OK thanks for the details, didn't know you could have different kind of gases in these cars. Here at the pumps we have LPG, so according to Google, a mix of butane and propane, mostly, as you said. So cow gas is more energetic then ? That's cool... I mean they all say how cow farts is tremendously more dangerous for the ozone layer than CO2 emissions... so let's make use of it to power cars rather letting it blow a hole in the ozone layer ! 

It's the usual media (over-)simplification with methane from cows - yes they always produce methane, yes methane is a more powerfull "greenhouse effect gas" than CO2 but a cow on a pasture feeding naturally has low emissions. A "high octane" milk cow that lives inside, gets fed much soy protein and other stuff to pump out 13000L milk a year - now that one has worrysome amounts of methane emission (and, TBH lives a shitty live IMHO). It does allow to fuel a biogas reactor from it's manure alone, that can be readily collected in such an environment - so it is exploited to the end, in a way...

Why imply CNG is a agricultural byproduct when it's not ! 
As CNG's last 2 letters implies it's a natural gas from the bowels of the earth and a byproduct of oil wells and in many cases targeted from natural gas fields then compressed to provide better density and therefore greater range when used for ICE fuel. In low pressure form it's domestic and industrial fuel used for all manner of generally heating requirements.

Here I register my offence in CNG being associated with agricultural emissions !   

Well, while I can see your point and I think most people understood Saskias comment as the joke it was (and my comment was about agricultural methane emissions and not about CNG at all)- technically you can (at least in germany) purify your biogas and (instead of using it on-site to generate heat and power) compress it into the national natural gas grid as a "paid gas supplier". So when some of this leaks it would be to a very small percentage a CNG leak from a agricultural source... 

[dl6lr]

News from the nixies: The 5245L is counting!

Refilled the cans, see photos below.

I fixed the decimal counter assembly with a silicon. The problem was the cap C21 I measured OK broke its leg, the tiny gap was non-obvious. After resoldering the shortened leg, the "carry bit" now works. While experimenting with the board, I managed to kill the other 2N2455 Q10 on the board  Fixed with a silicon PNP too. The needle pulses I was missing are clearly visible with a faster scope (500MHz instead of 100MHz).

The high speed display assembly 05232-6010 with the dead nixie is counting, but the photocoupler is bad. Digits 0 and 6 are not working OK, digit 3 is somehow blurred. Sometimes the 4 is displayed for a short time instead of the 6. Swapped a good nixie from another board to this for tests. Will try to repair it later, currently this one has no display.

All other display boards are counting and displaying OK.

Several decimal neon bulbs are dead (broken legs at the glass suspected to corrosion), have to remove and refit new neons to it. Will do that in the next days, I hope.

The scaler output at the back has some glitches when scaling down to 100, 10 or 1cps. Have to look into it.

The fan is alarmingly loud, have to remove and rework it.

The oven is working but the frequency is off by several Hz, this has to be adjusted as the last step.

[tautech]

Certainly CNG is a low energy product compared to LPG and I too get Saskia's reference to it being likened to a cows fart however that's were the likeness should stop.

Here ag emissions are being pointed at as part of reducing emissions when expressly in the Paris accord ag emissions are expressly omitted as part of food production yet some gubbermints think farmers dimwits and an easy tax.
The uprisings have already started here..... 

[tautech]

News from the nixies: The 5245L is counting!

Refilled the cans, see photos below.

   

[dl6lr]

   

Discussed with ch_scr on discord and found it took only a few minutes to create that label. Printed on a label printer. I could have included the date and value...

[Vince]

Cng is cow farts at 200 bar. LPG is liquified propane/butane . Vol o offered both version the energy density of cow farts is considerably higher than LPG

Ah OK thanks for the details, didn't know you could have different kind of gases in these cars. Here at the pumps we have LPG, so according to Google, a mix of butane and propane, mostly, as you said. So cow gas is more energetic then ? That's cool... I mean they all say how cow farts is tremendously more dangerous for the ozone layer than CO2 emissions... so let's make use of it to power cars rather letting it blow a hole in the ozone layer ! 

It's the usual media (over-)simplification with methane from cows - yes they always produce methane, yes methane is a more powerfull "greenhouse effect gas" than CO2 but a cow on a pasture feeding naturally has low emissions. A "high octane" milk cow that lives inside, gets fed much soy protein and other stuff to pump out 13000L milk a year - now that one has worrysome amounts of methane emission (and, TBH lives a shitty live IMHO). It does allow to fuel a biogas reactor from it's manure alone, that can be readily collected in such an environment - so it is exploited to the end, in a way...

Why imply CNG is a agricultural byproduct when it's not ! 
As CNG's last 2 letters implies it's a natural gas from the bowels of the earth and a byproduct of oil wells and in many cases targeted from natural gas fields then compressed to provide better density and therefore greater range when used for ICE fuel. In low pressure form it's domestic and industrial fuel used for all manner of generally heating requirements.

Here I register my offence in CNG being associated with agricultural emissions !   

OK I am lost now, was this CNG a joke of Saskia I didn't get, and it's just another name for the LPG/GPL stuff we have in France...

Sorry Saskia, I guess I was not 100% today.... 

[factory]

Here are a couple of pictures from the two manuals showing A17 Q9, seems to be mostly the same apart from R53, will double check against the parts list tomorrow night in case of an error, too late tonight, could we have a picture of the actual board fitted?


David

My manual says 4.7 for R53 too and this is populated to the board. I think 4700 is an error, with 4700 you will not drive Q9 to lower the voltage on the output pin and it will convert the circuit from a common mitter to a common collector. Even saturating Q9, which would require about -14V at the base would lower the output only by 1/10 of the voltage, giving a 1.5 volt output swing. But the input to C21 is only about 2.5 to 3V swing as the flipflop Q7/Q8 are feeded with -11V and -15V and the emitter resistor R44 with R41 does not allow for the full voltage swing.

Edit: Photo of board with Q9 removed

David, R53 is the same, just that one has it in ohms, the other is shown in k's, 4700 ohms as opposed to 4.7k

The error is (as I suspected) with the A17 prefix 408 diagram, the parts list agrees with the later revision and R53 is 4.7Ω. Sometimes you have to double check hp manuals as there seems to be quite a few little errors. But maybe not as bad as British Rail service manuals, I'm some of them had deliberate errors.   

Attached are the parts list, diagram (bit blurred, need to try again) and component layout for A17 from the 408 prefix manual.

David

[Vince]

News from the nixies: The 5245L is counting!

Refilled the cans, see photos below.

I fixed the decimal counter assembly with a silicon. The problem was the cap C21 I measured OK broke its leg, the tiny gap was non-obvious. After resoldering the shortened leg, the "carry bit" now works. While experimenting with the board, I managed to kill the other 2N2455 Q10 on the board  Fixed with a silicon PNP too. The needle pulses I was missing are clearly visible with a faster scope (500MHz instead of 100MHz).

The high speed display assembly 05232-6010 with the dead nixie is counting, but the photocoupler is bad. Digits 0 and 6 are not working OK, digit 3 is somehow blurred. Sometimes the 4 is displayed for a short time instead of the 6. Swapped a good nixie from another board to this for tests. Will try to repair it later, currently this one has no display.

All other display boards are counting and displaying OK.

Several decimal neon bulbs are dead (broken legs at the glass suspected to corrosion), have to remove and refit new neons to it. Will do that in the next days, I hope.

The scaler output at the back has some glitches when scaling down to 100, 10 or 1cps. Have to look into it.

The fan is alarmingly loud, have to remove and rework it.

The oven is working but the frequency is off by several Hz, this has to be adjusted as the last step.

Wow that's a neat job, well done. Might give it a try to see how difficult and/or time consuming it is... have a dozen of them on my Tek 575 so quite an undertaking I feel......

That old cap was "slightly" dried out shall we say ?! 

Nice label ! Need a label printer...

[factory]

News from the nixies: The 5245L is counting!

Refilled the cans, see photos below.

I fixed the decimal counter assembly with a silicon. The problem was the cap C21 I measured OK broke its leg, the tiny gap was non-obvious. After resoldering the shortened leg, the "carry bit" now works. While experimenting with the board, I managed to kill the other 2N2455 Q10 on the board  Fixed with a silicon PNP too. The needle pulses I was missing are clearly visible with a faster scope (500MHz instead of 100MHz).

The high speed display assembly 05232-6010 with the dead nixie is counting, but the photocoupler is bad. Digits 0 and 6 are not working OK, digit 3 is somehow blurred. Sometimes the 4 is displayed for a short time instead of the 6. Swapped a good nixie from another board to this for tests. Will try to repair it later, currently this one has no display.

All other display boards are counting and displaying OK.

Several decimal neon bulbs are dead (broken legs at the glass suspected to corrosion), have to remove and refit new neons to it. Will do that in the next days, I hope.

The scaler output at the back has some glitches when scaling down to 100, 10 or 1cps. Have to look into it.

The fan is alarmingly loud, have to remove and rework it.

The oven is working but the frequency is off by several Hz, this has to be adjusted as the last step.

My last post was a bit late.... 

And here is the circuit diagram & board layout for A16 (05232-6010) from the 5245L prefix 716 manual.

It is recommended to add a fuse in line with the crystal oven heater,  then if the oven heater fails with a short (as they sometimes do), it won't also burn the second mains transformer out.

And, on my half day off work tomorrow, I will be collecting another Tek oscilloscope for my collection. 

David

[Saskia]

CNG is methane. At least most of it. There is a high energy and a low energy version available. In my home county 100% of the low energy variant is made from agricultural waste, I e. In some sort of bio reactor.

[Vince]

OK OK.... so indeed we don't have the sam egas at the pump.. .weird.. and I thought Europe was leveling everything ?!
Apparently tehy have not decided yet what gas to sue for cars ! 

So, if I go to Germany to fill my car with Methane instead of my French LPG... my car will go faster !!! 

[Saskia]

We also have lpg and you should never try to fill you lpg tank with cng. Cng comes at 200 bar. I don't think your lpg tank is rated for that ...

[Neper]

No danger of that. The nozzles won't fit.

@Vince:
The busses in many French towns run on CNG, like these here in Dunkirk.

[Trymon]

OK OK.... so indeed we don't have the sam egas at the pump.. .weird.. and I thought Europe was leveling everything ?!
Apparently tehy have not decided yet what gas to sue for cars ! 

So, if I go to Germany to fill my car with Methane instead of my French LPG... my car will go faster !!! 

In Germany you will find way more LPG than CNG Gas stations. Main reason for this is for CNG you need a pipe to the Gas station. This is quite expensive to realize. For LPG they could use even an outside tank for storage.

[mnementh]

Cng is cow farts at 200 bar. LPG is liquified propane/butane . Vol o offered both version the energy density of cow farts is considerably higher than LPG

Ah OK thanks for the details, didn't know you could have different kind of gases in these cars. Here at the pumps we have LPG, so according to Google, a mix of butane and propane, mostly, as you said. So cow gas is more energetic then ? That's cool... I mean they all say how cow farts is tremendously more dangerous for the ozone layer than CO2 emissions... so let's make use of it to power cars rather letting it blow a hole in the ozone layer ! 

It's the usual media (over-)simplification with methane from cows - yes they always produce methane, yes methane is a more powerfull "greenhouse effect gas" than CO2 but a cow on a pasture feeding naturally has low emissions. A "high octane" milk cow that lives inside, gets fed much soy protein and other stuff to pump out 13000L milk a year - now that one has worrysome amounts of methane emission (and, TBH lives a shitty live IMHO). It does allow to fuel a biogas reactor from it's manure alone, that can be readily collected in such an environment - so it is exploited to the end, in a way...

Why imply CNG is a agricultural byproduct when it's not ! 
As CNG's last 2 letters implies it's a natural gas from the bowels of the earth and a byproduct of oil wells and in many cases targeted from natural gas fields then compressed to provide better density and therefore greater range when used for ICE fuel. In low pressure form it's domestic and industrial fuel used for all manner of generally heating requirements.

Here I register my offence in CNG being associated with agricultural emissions !   

*farts in tautech's general direction*

mnem
that should keep his TEA shed warm for a few months...