Author Topic: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread  (Read 14562925 times)

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Online Vince

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #111800 on: January 21, 2022, 03:11:43 am »
You see, electricity is soon becoming a luxury thing here. Price went up 50% this year alone, and every year it keeps going up and up.

I have now gotten to the point where I can't afford to waste any electron.. hence the pan to make sure I can collect any that might escape the battery, or fall off the crocodile clips, so I can put them back into the battery !  :popcorn:
 
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Offline Zucca

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #111801 on: January 21, 2022, 03:19:24 am »
Such a steep increase is no sense.

I agree with pay more for electricity if they do like in Germany investing a lot in renewable. I happly paid salty bills in Germany  :-+!

This also change the business case to get some solar panels and some energy tank batteries at home.

I am the only one thinking in the future (maybe when it is too late?) homes will be energy independent or use a fraction of what they use now?
A home should need only potable water and maybe a sewer connection for waste... the rest is a challenge for future eng to master.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2022, 03:21:58 am by Zucca »
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Can't love what you don't know. Zucca
 
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Offline ch_scr

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #111802 on: January 21, 2022, 07:14:57 am »
BTW, I am the only one that can't see the picture?



First I thanked him, and then I looked up the HTML code to fish out the pic.  ;D
For me it's Ublock that's started swallowing his pictures recently  |O
Still need to figure out what to do.
Edit: Upon further investigation, it seems to have sorted itself out.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2022, 07:49:50 am by ch_scr »
 

Offline Andrew_Debbie

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #111803 on: January 21, 2022, 07:42:25 am »


What UK "PAT regs"? Answer, there aren't any. The official word from the Health and Safety Executive:

I've been told that, by law, I must have my portable electrical appliances tested every year. Is this correct?
The Electricity at Work Regulations 1989 require that any electrical equipment that has the potential to cause injury is maintained in a safe condition. However, the Regulations do not specify what needs to be done, by whom or how frequently (ie they don't make inspection or testing of electrical appliances a legal requirement, nor do they make it a legal requirement to undertake this annually).

I'm not saying that PAT testing isn't a good idea (although may be circumstances where it would not be appropriate) just that: (1) it is not required by law in the UK, and (2) that PAT testing alone is not enough to necessarily comply with The Electricity at Work Regulations 1989.

Many weasel words have been published by people with a vested interest in selling PAT kit that make it sound like a legal requirement when it it not. A similar weasel word mentality is used by the IET (formerly IEE) in labelling their wiring recommendations as wiring regulations (Their formal name in their British Standards version  is "Requirements for electrical installations"). They have no statutory force and while excellent codes of practice are not not necessarily enough in and of themselves to ensure compliance with the law - the HSE may treat compliance with the 17th edition as persuasive that you're following your legal obligations but it isn't the law (although the IET would like you to believe it is). The HSE's own turn of phrase is that 17th edition compliance is likely to comply with the law.

Sorry, this is a personal pet hate, things that do not have the force of law being sold as if they have by using names like 'regulations'.

Yes. 

A business could face a a huge fine  if HSE find they were not doing everything "reasonably practicable" to prevent injury or death from portable electrical equipment.  The exact guidance is "So far as is reasonably practicable , you must make sure that electrical equipment and installations are maintained to prevent danger."   


Here is the guidance for low-risk environments, like offices.

Quote
Not every electrical item needs a portable appliance test (PAT) In some cases, a simple user check and visual inspection is enough, eg checking for loose cables or signs of fire damage and, if possible, checking inside the plug for internal damage, bare wires and the correct fuse. Other equipment, eg a floor cleaner or kettle, may need a portable appliance test, but not necessarily every year.

OTOH if HSE accident investigation find an employer were not doing everything reasonably practicable, they are subject to a huge fine.

My employer does  annual testing of everything that plugs in, even in low risk environments like offices.   They do this because we already have a PAT tester and the annual visual and PAT tests take little time. 





« Last Edit: January 21, 2022, 07:47:19 am by Andrew_Debbie »
 
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Offline TERRA Operative

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #111804 on: January 21, 2022, 08:11:39 am »
BTW, I am the only one that can't see the picture?



First I thanked him, and then I looked up the HTML code to fish out the pic.  ;D

I can't see it unless I disable my adblocker, I'll have to tweak some settings.
Where does all this test equipment keep coming from?!?

https://www.youtube.com/NearFarMedia/
 

Offline TERRA Operative

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #111805 on: January 21, 2022, 08:12:36 am »
Quote from: TERRA Operative
Also, go unlock options if you have a GPIB-USB adapter! :D

I don't know what I can do via GPIB on this particular model scope ?
And I don't have a GPIB-USB adapter !  ... I have a REAL National Instrument ISA interface card and the MS-DOS and Windows 95 S/W to go with it !  8)
I  set up an old IBM Aptiva Pentium computer solely to be able to use a PCI  or ISA NI card.
Used it 5 years ago when I bought my TDS544A and wanted to clear the error log using a little S/W someone in the TekScope forum wrote.
Worked well. Then I had a bit of GPIB fun, see below !  :-DD

What a bobby dazzler! :D

If you can send arbitary commands to the scope via GPIB with your setup, you are set for unlocking options.

Follow these instructions: http://www.ko4bb.com/getsimple/index.php?id=enable-tds754d-options

You'll be able to enable options 1M, 2F, and 2C with no additional hardware. You have a floppy so option 1F is already enabled, I think 2F is enabled as standard on your unit?, and if you have the serial/parallel output board installed, you'll already have option 13 enabled too.
You can try option 2M, but it will only work if you have the extra RAM actually installed in your machine, that depends on model and serial number revision. You can try it and see if it shows 2M on the boot screen, if not, just revert it back and leave it at the 1M option.
2C might or might not work, I'm not sure on the 500 series scopes. I have all 600 and 700 series at the moment.

Option 05 requires the TV trigger board to be installed, and options 3C and 4C require the optical converter adapters etc. Not really useful unless you are doing optic fiber stuff anyway.

Also, take a look inside to see if you are lucky enough to have the hard drive option, and if you do, SELL IT TO MEEEEEEE!!!  ;D

I also have a spare serial/parallel board if you need it. :)
Where does all this test equipment keep coming from?!?

https://www.youtube.com/NearFarMedia/
 
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Offline med6753

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #111806 on: January 21, 2022, 08:19:29 am »
Why all of sudden are individuals having trouble viewing my pictures? It's the same format I've used for several years. I haven't changed anything.  :-//
An old gray beard with an attitude.
 

Offline med6753

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #111807 on: January 21, 2022, 08:25:06 am »
In other news....I told PayPal to go after hvstuff.com for a refund. An inquiry was sent through PayPal and they never responded. We'll see what happens.

As I mentioned before....avoid them.  :rant:
An old gray beard with an attitude.
 
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Offline dl6lr

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #111808 on: January 21, 2022, 08:30:55 am »
Go add a 47uF, 80V (or more) LOW-ESR cap you your next parts order, along with 4x 1000pF (10mm pitch) X-class capacitors to replace the Rifas (double check if yours has them first, I believe the 544A PSU does...).

Replace C13 on the power supply board ASAP, it's a ticking timebomb and will take out a bunch of parts when it decides to go off.
It's a weak point and will kill your standby power, meaning a dead scope until you replace a handful of parts.

Can you elaborate on where that cap is located? I just had a glance at the PSU diagrams of the 540 and 544A and could only find a C17 47µF with low voltage in the standby PSU.
 

Offline Robert763

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #111809 on: January 21, 2022, 08:47:54 am »
After a quick trip to my favorite distributor to grab some cable shoes (I returned with the cable shoes, some heat shrink tube, an SSD, a rust drive and a graphics card and was told to come back for the big Creality 3D printer, they had to think about the price they could give me) I had a hunch and started working on that pin.

Rewire the power box. Not pretty, but does the trick.
(Attachment Link)

Measured Voltage at metal parts against earth. A couple hunnerd mV, but that's it.
No dangerous voltage after correctly attaching the ground wires within the cabinet.

And behold:
(Attachment Link)

However a closer look at the CPU board reveals this utterly shameful situation:
(Attachment Link)

Why can't people take out the batteries before dying ?

Hrmpf.

No, this is not meant seriously.
Close up:
(Attachment Link)

The switch matrix is toast. Quite obviously. I need to remove the battery holder, the ULN2803, LM339, the 74LS line driver and all affected resistors, diodes, capacitors. The scrub in acid, remove all gunk, throw in ultrasonic, repair vias and put in new components.
Once that is done the bulk of the repair should be finished.

Estimated time needed to bring the pin back into operation: 10 hours.
Which includes lamp / rubber swap, repair of broken coil stops and mounts and the overhaul of the CPU board.

An additional day of work to make it reasonably tidy.

To make it nice: additional 100 hours. But I don't think I will go to that length.

Why do they mix cells?  :palm: |O |O :rant:
 

Offline Saskia

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #111810 on: January 21, 2022, 09:07:05 am »
probably because that was what they had at hand. And never bothered until the pin did not work anymore.

Most pinball CPU boards die because of cell leakage.

Time to dig for my moving box with the soldering equipment, the  flux, etc and whip out the ultrasonic.
Oh joy. Maybe I'll even get some exercise with the Bungard press and the industrial dust sucker (when I use the fibreglass pencil to scrape off the solder mask to assess the damage ...
 

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #111811 on: January 21, 2022, 09:13:46 am »
Go add a 47uF, 80V (or more) LOW-ESR cap you your next parts order, along with 4x 1000pF (10mm pitch) X-class capacitors to replace the Rifas (double check if yours has them first, I believe the 544A PSU does...).

Replace C13 on the power supply board ASAP, it's a ticking timebomb and will take out a bunch of parts when it decides to go off.
It's a weak point and will kill your standby power, meaning a dead scope until you replace a handful of parts.

Can you elaborate on where that cap is located? I just had a glance at the PSU diagrams of the 540 and 544A and could only find a C17 47µF with low voltage in the standby PSU.

Ah, my bad. It is C17 that you want to replace, as you highlighted in the schematic.

I'll edit my posts to reflect the correct part number.
Where does all this test equipment keep coming from?!?

https://www.youtube.com/NearFarMedia/
 
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Offline BU508A

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #111812 on: January 21, 2022, 09:30:39 am »
“Chaos is found in greatest abundance wherever order is being sought. It always defeats order, because it is better organized.”            - Terry Pratchett -
 
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Online AVGresponding

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #111813 on: January 21, 2022, 10:19:32 am »

Sorry, this is a personal pet hate, things that do not have the force of law being sold as if they have by using names like 'regulations'.

We're on the 18th edition now.

Regardless of your personal opinion, mine, Big Clive's, or anyone else's, they are de facto regulations by means of the trouble you can get into if you fail to comply with them.

Quoting the HSE saying portable appliance testing isn't a legal requirement after your employee dies by electrocution while using a toaster in your canteen won't stop you from getting a hefty fine and maybe a jail sentence, if you don't have an audit trail showing you did your legal duty to ensure the appliance was safe to use.

Nobody, least of all the regulator who would be prosecuting you "after your employee dies by electrocution while using a toaster in your canteen" (that's the HSE in case you're in any doubt), is saying that PAT testing is not useful as part of a proper maintenance regime, just that it is not required per se by law, that there is no regulations requiring you to undertake PAT testing (as generally understood), or hand money over to a bunch of cowboys who turn up at your door with a C&G 2377 certificate in their sticky mitts and no clue what is actually safe or not, just which button to press, claiming that there are regulations that require you to. (Check back for Robert's (I think) horror story of idiot PAT testers left on their own in a factory for the weekend - do you really want to align yourself with that crowd by advocating for non-existent regulations?)

Quote
The fact is that PAT regs (I will not apologise for calling them regulations) [/color][/size][/b]

Well you should, because they are not regulations. I know this because I know if I say "Show me a copy of these 'regulations' then." you will come up empty handed, sans Act of Parliament, sans Statutory Instrument. Calling them something they are not serves nobody except people who try to profit from FUD and is just being Humpty Dumpty. There is no such thing as a de facto regulation, regulations are de jure or they are not regulations. Words matter, ask Victoria Derbyshire; I suspect her mis-naming of Jeremy Hunt caused her no end of problems, not matter how much it amused the rest of us.

Why should I apologise for recognising a de facto situation created by someone else? I'm recognising the reality of the situation; you are just complaining that it isn't as it should (in your opinion) be.

You will not get a mortgage on a property where the wiring (if newly installed) does not meet the current wiring regs. You will not get public liability/fire insurance for your building if the wiring is not periodically inspected and found to comply with the regs (at the time of installation).
You may not get a mortgage on a property where the wiring, even if it complied with the regs at the time of installation, does not comply with the current ones; it depends a lot on the individual circumstances.

The situation that Robert outlined re PAT some time ago is not an argument against PAT, it is an argument against incompetent testers.

You may indeed, as the responsible person in a company/organisation, decide that certain items do not require testing. If you wish to avoid potential future prosecution by the HSE, you MUST provide documentation stating why this is the case. If you are/were wrong in your assessment, you are still going to be for the high jump.

FWIW I'm with Big Clive on the subject of changes to the regs, by and large. It has become a means to extort money, with the constant "improvements to safety" having long since passed the point of diminishing returns. Once upon a time we educated people not to stick metal objects into mains powered equipment to "see if it's working", like we once educated people to look both ways before crossing the road, and to use a crossing point if possible.

Nowadays it has apparently been decided that it's too difficult/expensive to educate people properly, and so make every situation as completely idiot-proof as possible. We all know where that leads...
nuqDaq yuch Dapol?
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Offline m k

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #111814 on: January 21, 2022, 11:23:57 am »
Any freight mules/resellers near Luzern?
I don't have even a passport.

https://www.ricardo.ch/de/a/tektronix-5441-speicheroscilloscope-1195868928/
Advance-Aneng-Appa-AVO-Data Tech-Fluke-General Radio-H. W. Sullivan-Heathkit-HP-Kaise-Kyoritsu-Leeds & Northrup-Mastech-REO-Simpson-Sinclair-Tektronix-Triplett-YFE
(plus lesser brands from the work shop of the world)
 

Offline mansaxel

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #111815 on: January 21, 2022, 11:45:15 am »

Why should I apologise for recognising a de facto situation created by someone else? I'm recognising the reality of the situation; you are just complaining that it isn't as it should (in your opinion) be.


Because it is not what the law says, it is bullying by insurers that have been influenced by PAT vendors and even more so the "Compliance companies" -- the ones who can't tell which is the toaster and which is the PAT when their goons show up to make a middle manager feel safe from blame.

The law says that you shall take reasonable precautions. Or words to that effect. Full stop.

The rest of the PAT circus, especially the outsouring sharks, just add cost and cumbersomeness, for little return. It is entirely in their interest to further the impression that their activities are required and impossible to do without.

We have exactly the same situation here with "hot work" regulations. When the insurance companies (it is NOT the law, again the law says "reasonable precautions") have had their way, you can't shrink some tubing on a cable without an (expensive and pointless) education, a fire guard, and having filled out a "Hot work risk assessment" form.

This makes me sick.

Offline Mortymore

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #111816 on: January 21, 2022, 11:50:18 am »
Why all of sudden are individuals having trouble viewing my pictures? It's the same format I've used for several years. I haven't changed anything.  :-//

I have uBlock, and only if turned off I can see the pictures.

Offline BU508A

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #111817 on: January 21, 2022, 12:05:53 pm »

Why should I apologise for recognising a de facto situation created by someone else? I'm recognising the reality of the situation; you are just complaining that it isn't as it should (in your opinion) be.


Because it is not what the law says, it is bullying by insurers that have been influenced by PAT vendors and even more so the "Compliance companies" -- the ones who can't tell which is the toaster and which is the PAT when their goons show up to make a middle manager feel safe from blame.

The law says that you shall take reasonable precautions. Or words to that effect. Full stop.

The rest of the PAT circus, especially the outsouring sharks, just add cost and cumbersomeness, for little return. It is entirely in their interest to further the impression that their activities are required and impossible to do without.

We have exactly the same situation here with "hot work" regulations. When the insurance companies (it is NOT the law, again the law says "reasonable precautions") have had their way, you can't shrink some tubing on a cable without an (expensive and pointless) education, a fire guard, and having filled out a "Hot work risk assessment" form.

This makes me sick.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Hugging_Day

 ;)
“Chaos is found in greatest abundance wherever order is being sought. It always defeats order, because it is better organized.”            - Terry Pratchett -
 
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Offline McBryce

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #111818 on: January 21, 2022, 12:24:39 pm »
Why all of sudden are individuals having trouble viewing my pictures? It's the same format I've used for several years. I haven't changed anything.  :-//

I have uBlock, and only if turned off I can see the pictures.

I use ABP (Firefox) and all pictures are visible, even the ones I don't want to see!

McBryce.
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Offline ch_scr

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #111819 on: January 21, 2022, 12:45:17 pm »
Why all of sudden are individuals having trouble viewing my pictures? It's the same format I've used for several years. I haven't changed anything.  :-//

I have uBlock, and only if turned off I can see the pictures.

I use ABP (Firefox) and all pictures are visible, even the ones I don't want to see!

McBryce.
That is yesterdays toy. Nowadays cool kids use "uBlock Origin". But serious, I come from ABP as well - uBlock is a nice upgrade.
 

Offline med6753

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #111820 on: January 21, 2022, 01:03:57 pm »
Test. Can everyone see this?  :P :P :P :P :-DD :-DD

An old gray beard with an attitude.
 
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Offline Andrew_Debbie

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #111821 on: January 21, 2022, 01:24:07 pm »
Test:  Can anyone un-see that?
 
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Offline mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #111822 on: January 21, 2022, 01:46:28 pm »


mnem
retaliatory strike.
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Offline BU508A

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #111823 on: January 21, 2022, 01:50:25 pm »
Anybody interested in some microwave / tunnel diodes (NAWTS)?

https://www.ebay.de/itm/403421249948

“Chaos is found in greatest abundance wherever order is being sought. It always defeats order, because it is better organized.”            - Terry Pratchett -
 

Offline Cerebus

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #111824 on: January 21, 2022, 02:03:32 pm »
Why all of sudden are individuals having trouble viewing my pictures? It's the same format I've used for several years. I haven't changed anything.  :-//

It's one of the downsides of external image hosting that some of us warn about on a fairly regular basis, that at some point in the future they may change their rules about how images may be used and enforce it technically, or they change how they technically deliver images (which is what this instance seems to be on first examination), and things break. It's one of the reasons that I advocate uploading images to the forum if they matter for continuity purposes.
Anybody got a syringe I can use to squeeze the magic smoke back into this?
 
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