Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[mnementh]

Nice. Judging from the whisps of smoke and the charring I'd say that was a minute or two from actually catching fire. Scary isn't it.

Submitted for Your Approval: PROOF That Somebody DOES Actually Listen to Cerebus!

Normally they only listen at swordpoint.

Yup. I'm not sure because it happened so quick, but I think I saw it flashover as I was flipping it into the bucket. 


They just don't know how easy it is to make listening to you so much more fun.   

mnem
*casts a prayer of thanks to Ifni for favors both large and small*

[Vince]

Retro bench day... ironically designing filters with analogue toys...

It's cool that you have a little bench to play with but... I am very confused. Maybe I missed an episode or two, but I thought you were in the process of PACKING stuff in preparation for a soon to come move to an appartement in town center ?  Or have you already moved in there since you last posted about it ?

[BU508A]

Get you friend to demonstrate how, while driving along, he deals with

• the screen starts misting up: how does he redirect ventilation
• you are about to drive through smoke from a fire; how does he switch from external air to recirculating air

I can't speak to the Tesla case but the number of bells and whistles in the new (to me) BMW surprised me in this regard. If in "auto" climate mode the answer in both cases would be "nothing", there are sensors for both misting up and external air quality and the car will automatically do the right thing. There are also physical "demist the windows with the aircon" and "fresh/recirculate/auto air circulation" buttons if I have the climate control off or in manual mode. The answer for the old car would vary between "fiddle with lots of manual controls" or "stop and put the roof up/down", but it had the two great advantages over the 'new' car of (1) having a soft top, (2) having the engine just behind the driver's seat - both qualities I shall miss.

Lotus Elise?

Lotus Elise is on my list of desirable cars that I'd rock in a minute. They are very rare here but I have seen one up close and there was someone local that has (had?) one. But I understand you practically need a shoehorn to get into it. 

Yesterday in the newspaper:
Lotus Elise is end of production. The photo below shows the last Lotus Elise built together with its namesake, Elisa Artioli. She is the granddaughter of Romano Artioli. He was at this time the CEO of Lotus.


Here is the full story (article is in German):
https://www.badische-zeitung.de/das-letzte-lotus-modell-elise-geht-an-die-namenspatin-elisa-artioli--212530392.html

[mnementh]

   At this point, it's going to be a matter of "Gotta let SWMBO see and decide."

This was her father's table and it got mangled by UHaul contract movers; big chunks knocked out of one end and bits of broken glass embedded in one edge. Those spots have been repaired to the best of my ability, so now we're getting to the final finish. I know I can make it a lot darker with a dark-tinted urethane finish; we'll see what she says when she sees it.

Restoring it is her Anniversary present this year, so it has to be the way she wants it, not how I think it looks good...

SWMBO has seen it, and she says she "wants it the way my hands made it". End of story.

mnem
A labor of love is indeed its own reward. 

[mnementh]

Retro bench day... ironically designing filters with analogue toys...   

It's cool that you have a little bench to play with but... I am very confused. Maybe I missed an episode or two, but I thought you were in the process of PACKING stuff in preparation for a soon to come move to an appartement in town center ?  Or have you already moved in there since you last posted about it ?

"Retro bench day" means it was his old bench from "back in the day".   

mnem
 

[BU508A]

Retro bench day... ironically designing filters with analogue toys...

It's cool that you have a little bench to play with but... I am very confused. Maybe I missed an episode or two, but I thought you were in the process of PACKING stuff in preparation for a soon to come move to an appartement in town center ?  Or have you already moved in there since you last posted about it ?

This perhaps can explain it:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Procrastination

 

[Vince]

Retro bench day... ironically designing filters with analogue toys...   

It's cool that you have a little bench to play with but... I am very confused. Maybe I missed an episode or two, but I thought you were in the process of PACKING stuff in preparation for a soon to come move to an appartement in town center ?  Or have you already moved in there since you last posted about it ?

"Retro bench day" means it was his old bench from "back in the day".   

mnem
 

OK ! 

I thought he said retro because... bench is made of only very retro / vintage stuff, and the other day he said he is now buying precisely that kind of stuff right now. Like his old Fluke or old sig gen.
So it all added up in MY mind !

OK problem solved then...

[bsfeechannel]

I'm posting this here mostly for the benefit of BD, who did express some envy on Discord perhaps 2 weeks back..



This was the second concert they played since 2017 (the first was on the same stage the night before), so it was really an event. Am really happy.

Mind me asking, what band is this?

[TERRA Operative]

Space Ceiling, the final frontier... These are the voyages of a TEA guy. His continuing mission, To explore his apartment and basement, to seek out new Test Equipment and new bargains money sinks. To boldly measure quantities which no (wo)man has done before."

 

I'll take that PG507 from the top shelf thanks! 

[TERRA Operative]

Think I'm going to go buy a Peak Atlas ZEN50 Zener diode tester tomorrow. I've needed a zener diode tester on a number of occasions now and setting up a multimeter, power supply and resistor is a pain in the bum.

Anyone got any reason why I shouldn't?

The Peak/Atlas siren song. 

You buy one, you're going to hear it singing to its cousins til you buy the next one, and the next one, etc... Then those will sing at you in harmony until you have the full set.   

mnem
Then they'll sing choir to the matching fitted case until you buy or print it...

I already found the carry case that will hold two, so I'll have a spare open spot driving me mad until I fill it.

https://akizukidenshi.com/catalog/g/gM-06539/

I too would like a way to quickly test Zener diodes. Can't justify the money for a dedicated tester though. Instead I put my Zener need in the balance to strengthen my motivation to get a proper / modern power supply these old  HP / Agilent ones with a VFD display every one has but not me, where you can control the short circuit accurately and display the voltage accurately too.

I could just shove the Zener in the jacks of the PSU and limit the current to 1mA and see what voltage that gives me. Then increase the current and see how the voltage behaves.
Now I think of it maybe it's not a good idea : the output caps in the PSU might discharge into the Zener when I connect it, and blow it ?
But if I set the output voltage to Zero and current limit it to 1mA say, then slowly increase the voltage,  should be safe ?

Anyway, I could still put a series resistor to limit the current to a safe level. Could make a little test jib with  ZIF socket, a resistor, couple 4mm binding posts and I could just grab that whenever I need to test a Zener, grab a couple test leads to connect it to the PSU and that's it.

I think that's how I will go about it. Cheap, simple, efficient... and an excuse to buy a decent PSU.

I actually have a design in the works, adapted from one I found online. It's not finished by a long shot, but one day when I have time (hahahahaha) I'll finish it.
https://www.nutsvolts.com/magazine/article/november2014_Hoffman

See below for my schematic.

I've used a portable DC insulation tester (Megger), combined with a DMM to measure the voltage, both at work & home to test Zeners. The current available is low enough to not destroy the Zener (unlike the TTI PSU, without series resistance). Even used this method, to prove that some ordinary diodes had been incorrectly fitted, in place of some 100V Zeners. 

Some Megger testers have output ranges from 50V up to 1kV, this is also useful for testing glow tube voltage references & neon number/symbol readout bulbs, which sometimes they age badly, or crack. The Megger/DMM will find out if they are knackered, i.e. require too high a voltage to glow, or don't glow at all.

The only Peak testers I have are the ESR60 (bought second hand) and the DCA75 (new, as used are barely any cheaper).

David

I have a Fluke 1587 that does the 50V to 1000V thing from my electrician days. Maybe I could try using it, but then I'm back to the same point of multimeters and PSU's anyway, just with a different flavour, and I want my shiny new thing.

I have a good selection of Peak stuff available here in Akihabara, not sure how the prices compare to elsewhere, but they seem ok.

https://akizukidenshi.com/catalog/goods/search.aspx?maker=peak&search.x=70

[mnementh]

mnem
*coughDCA75cough*

[mnementh]

   OK so I am done with the TO3 packages now.

23 of them in total. 3 that I could not identify, if people can help, you are most welcome. If not... straight to the junk bin, since an unidentified anything is as useful as a rock. Maybe I could saw them open out of curiosity...

Anyway as you can see they are : - S-1828 made by " SI " in 1974. Or so I understand.   ...snip...

Well the S-1828 gives nothing, but 1110715 cross references to NFR8117 diode on the parttarget NSN stock list website and searching for NFR8117 finds a Digital parts list here http://vtda.org/docs/computing/DEC/Handbooks/EB-21850-75_SparesKitHandbook_1982.pdf
The DEC book lists it as PIV 75, 20A in T03 package, under part# 11-10715-00 (also cross-references back to the NSN list). Does it test as a diode?   

David

Thanks a lot ! 

Yes it does indeed register as a double diode when I shove it into the chinese tester : common cathode on the metal can. The two anodes on the two pins.
However what worries me is that the tester also displays a 5 ohm resistance between the two anodes ?! 
That's weird... maybe it's toast...   

mnem
It'll never worry you again. 

[vk6zgo]

Think I'm going to go buy a Peak Atlas ZEN50 Zener diode tester tomorrow. I've needed a zener diode tester on a number of occasions now and setting up a multimeter, power supply and resistor is a pain in the bum.

Anyone got any reason why I shouldn't?

I too would like a way to quickly test Zener diodes. Can't justify the money for a dedicated tester though. Instead I put my Zener need in the balance to strengthen my motivation to get a proper / modern power supply these old  HP / Agilent ones with a VFD display every one has but not me, where you can control the short circuit accurately and display the voltage accurately too.

I could just shove the Zener in the jacks of the PSU and limit the current to 1mA and see what voltage that gives me. Then increase the current and see how the voltage behaves.
Now I think of it maybe it's not a good idea : the output caps in the PSU might discharge into the Zener when I connect it, and blow it ?
But if I set the output voltage to Zero and current limit it to 1mA say, then slowly increase the voltage,  should be safe ?

Anyway, I could still put a series resistor to limit the current to a safe level. Could make a little test jib with  ZIF socket, a resistor, couple 4mm binding posts and I could just grab that whenever I need to test a Zener, grab a couple test leads to connect it to the PSU and that's it.

I think that's how I will go about it. Cheap, simple, efficient... and an excuse to buy a decent PSU.

Back in the day, we used the Calibrate output on a Tek 545b as a voltage source, & hung a probe across the diode.
Unlike modern 'scopes, "Cal" was adjustable right up to around 150v.

The Calibrator has a reasonably high output resistance, so we didn't need a series resistor.

We would start out at 1v or so, then increase the calibrator setting till the display on the 'scope screen suddenly dropped.
That was the zener point of that device.

OK, the resolution was only as good as the screen display, but it was usually near enough, as the vertical gain could be set on the CRO beforehand, using the calibrator normally.

[Zucca]

Retro bench day... ironically designing filters with analogue toys...

A calculator with = on bd desk? Very retro indeed.

[mansaxel]

I'm posting this here mostly for the benefit of BD, who did express some envy on Discord perhaps 2 weeks back..



This was the second concert they played since 2017 (the first was on the same stage the night before), so it was really an event. Am really happy.

Mind me asking, what band is this?

Einstürzende Neubauten.

[Cubdriver]

Think I'm going to go buy a Peak Atlas ZEN50 Zener diode tester tomorrow. I've needed a zener diode tester on a number of occasions now and setting up a multimeter, power supply and resistor is a pain in the bum.

Anyone got any reason why I shouldn't?

I too would like a way to quickly test Zener diodes. Can't justify the money for a dedicated tester though. Instead I put my Zener need in the balance to strengthen my motivation to get a proper / modern power supply these old  HP / Agilent ones with a VFD display every one has but not me, where you can control the short circuit accurately and display the voltage accurately too.

I could just shove the Zener in the jacks of the PSU and limit the current to 1mA and see what voltage that gives me. Then increase the current and see how the voltage behaves.
Now I think of it maybe it's not a good idea : the output caps in the PSU might discharge into the Zener when I connect it, and blow it ?
But if I set the output voltage to Zero and current limit it to 1mA say, then slowly increase the voltage,  should be safe ?

Anyway, I could still put a series resistor to limit the current to a safe level. Could make a little test jib with  ZIF socket, a resistor, couple 4mm binding posts and I could just grab that whenever I need to test a Zener, grab a couple test leads to connect it to the PSU and that's it.

I think that's how I will go about it. Cheap, simple, efficient... and an excuse to buy a decent PSU.

Back in the day, we used the Calibrate output on a Tek 545b as a voltage source, & hung a probe across the diode.
Unlike modern 'scopes, "Cal" was adjustable right up to around 150v.

The Calibrator has a reasonably high output resistance, so we didn't need a series resistor.

We would start out at 1v or so, then increase the calibrator setting till the display on the 'scope screen suddenly dropped.
That was the zener point of that device.

OK, the resolution was only as good as the screen display, but it was usually near enough, as the vertical gain could be set on the CRO beforehand, using the calibrator normally.

Interesting.  Never thought of that - I need to try it!

545:


545B:


-Pat

[DH7DN]

Wow!

Dual beam goodness. A Type 556?

Yep, it's a dual-beam oscilloscope type R556 in a pristine condition. No tubes removed, everything seems to be in place. Will have to clean it/visually inspect the unit before powering it up.

[Cubdriver]

Beautiful 556!

-Pat

[mansaxel]

Support as it is supposed to be:

I've had some quirky things going on with my Meinberg LANTIME M300 GPSDO / NTP server. It's been logging errors and been generally unhappy with its reception for some time. It was given to me by a previous employer and I've run it for quite some time, so is long out of support and maintenance, but Meinberg still are willing to discuss with me and provide guidance. There's been talk of a somewhat custom firmware; one of the reasons it's considered obsolete is the lack of storage on it, but they say that if I fit a bigger Compact Flash card, it can run newer software.

This level of customer service is truly stellar, especially compared to other TE / timing vendors.  I am, of course, a happy Meinberg customer at work, but this has not been mentioned in the current discussion.

[Robert763]

Yes because also they tend to squeeze a mess of menus of menus inside of a touch screen. An old lady has no chance anymore to operate modern cars correctly.

Even if the layout was perfect, intuitive and didn't require any delving within menu levels, the delicacy and dexterity required to operate a touchscreen, and the focus necessary is a real no-no while trying to control a vehicle in a dynamic situation - dynamic both in terms of physically bouncing around and on terms of a 'dynamic environment' that requires your full attention to keep track of what's happening around you.

I've tried to use a single task touchscreen satnav on the move and determined that, for me at least, that's too difficult and dangerous a thing to be doing. To place most of a vehicle's auxiliary controls on a touchscreen seems to me to be one of the stupidest ideas ever.

And voice control? Let's put it like this, in a modern VW Golf with it you can get into a lot of trouble if you say the wrong sentence including the keyword "Volkwagen" to your passenger(s)...

Exactly this. With a real switch or knob you can locate it by touch without taking your eyes off the road and then activate it.
This is impossible with a touch screen.

[tggzzz]

Yes because also they tend to squeeze a mess of menus of menus inside of a touch screen. An old lady has no chance anymore to operate modern cars correctly.

Even if the layout was perfect, intuitive and didn't require any delving within menu levels, the delicacy and dexterity required to operate a touchscreen, and the focus necessary is a real no-no while trying to control a vehicle in a dynamic situation - dynamic both in terms of physically bouncing around and on terms of a 'dynamic environment' that requires your full attention to keep track of what's happening around you.

I've tried to use a single task touchscreen satnav on the move and determined that, for me at least, that's too difficult and dangerous a thing to be doing. To place most of a vehicle's auxiliary controls on a touchscreen seems to me to be one of the stupidest ideas ever.

And voice control? Let's put it like this, in a modern VW Golf with it you can get into a lot of trouble if you say the wrong sentence including the keyword "Volkwagen" to your passenger(s)...

Exactly this. With a real switch or knob you can locate it by touch without taking your eyes off the road and then activate it.
This is impossible with a touch screen.

Yup. That's why I chose the ventilation example, and told the salesman (who tried and failed to change it) that after 30s with eyes off the road he had just hit a child that ran into the road when chasing a ball.

[tggzzz]

Hey, whats this I spy on the bench, a Casio calculator with a = key, good choice, none of that RPN rubbish here then, nothing to see here, move along 

Give the guy some slack; nobody is perfect.

[Robert763]

Think I'm going to go buy a Peak Atlas ZEN50 Zener diode tester tomorrow. I've needed a zener diode tester on a number of occasions now and setting up a multimeter, power supply and resistor is a pain in the bum.

Anyone got any reason why I shouldn't?

The Peak/Atlas siren song. 

You buy one, you're going to hear it singing to its cousins til you buy the next one, and the next one, etc... Then those will sing at you in harmony until you have the full set.   

mnem
Then they'll sing choir to the matching fitted case until you buy or print it...

I already found the carry case that will hold two, so I'll have a spare open spot driving me mad until I fill it.

https://akizukidenshi.com/catalog/g/gM-06539/

I too would like a way to quickly test Zener diodes. Can't justify the money for a dedicated tester though. Instead I put my Zener need in the balance to strengthen my motivation to get a proper / modern power supply these old  HP / Agilent ones with a VFD display every one has but not me, where you can control the short circuit accurately and display the voltage accurately too.

I could just shove the Zener in the jacks of the PSU and limit the current to 1mA and see what voltage that gives me. Then increase the current and see how the voltage behaves.
Now I think of it maybe it's not a good idea : the output caps in the PSU might discharge into the Zener when I connect it, and blow it ?
But if I set the output voltage to Zero and current limit it to 1mA say, then slowly increase the voltage,  should be safe ?

Anyway, I could still put a series resistor to limit the current to a safe level. Could make a little test jib with  ZIF socket, a resistor, couple 4mm binding posts and I could just grab that whenever I need to test a Zener, grab a couple test leads to connect it to the PSU and that's it.

I think that's how I will go about it. Cheap, simple, efficient... and an excuse to buy a decent PSU.

I actually have a design in the works, adapted from one I found online. It's not finished by a long shot, but one day when I have time (hahahahaha) I'll finish it.
https://www.nutsvolts.com/magazine/article/november2014_Hoffman

See below for my schematic.

I've used a portable DC insulation tester (Megger), combined with a DMM to measure the voltage, both at work & home to test Zeners. The current available is low enough to not destroy the Zener (unlike the TTI PSU, without series resistance). Even used this method, to prove that some ordinary diodes had been incorrectly fitted, in place of some 100V Zeners. 

Some Megger testers have output ranges from 50V up to 1kV, this is also useful for testing glow tube voltage references & neon number/symbol readout bulbs, which sometimes they age badly, or crack. The Megger/DMM will find out if they are knackered, i.e. require too high a voltage to glow, or don't glow at all.

The only Peak testers I have are the ESR60 (bought second hand) and the DCA75 (new, as used are barely any cheaper).

David

I have a Fluke 1587 that does the 50V to 1000V thing from my electrician days. Maybe I could try using it, but then I'm back to the same point of multimeters and PSU's anyway, just with a different flavour, and I want my shiny new thing.

I have a good selection of Peak stuff available here in Akihabara, not sure how the prices compare to elsewhere, but they seem ok.

https://akizukidenshi.com/catalog/goods/search.aspx?maker=peak&search.x=70

Hmm,
Typical weird Hoffman design.  As an absolute minimum it needs some series resistance between the output capacitor (C4 on N&V circuit) and the DUT. Yes he has a discharge resistor but an intermittant contact on the zenner could dump a currrent spike from a capacitor charged to 50 odd volts inot the DUT. It's "only" 300 uJ but enough to damage a small zenner. And do you really want to put 100-200mW into the DUT?  I would also be interested to see what the output wave form looks like. If it's not smmoth DC accuracy will depend on the meter response. And of course a separate pair of sockets or flying leads to connect the meter (as per your version) would make it much more usable. 

[McBryce]

Oh great, even more sensors to go wrong. The one time the 19yo Toyota Yaris failed was due to a sensor.

Well the "misting" sensor is just some LEDs and photodiodes, if those don't outlive the capacitors in rest of the electronics I'd be very surprised. The air pollution sensor is another story, it's the kind that uses a heated sensor matrix which to me dictates a certain maximum power-on hours; thankfully it's about as accessible as possible and entirely self-contained on a plug-in connector, replacing it would be a five minute job and it has a list price of €55 so not too terrifying.

The downside of all modern cars is the sheer quantity of electronics, sensors and servo motors they rely on. There most be upwards of 20 or 30 servo motors in the BMW: engine, lights, ventilation, seats, the list is endless.

Physical controls are fine.

The Tesla (and other?) touchscreen / voice activated controls are a serious problem.

I'm against touch-screen only controls on things I use on a desktop, like 'scopes, on something potentially safety critical such as in a car or plane I think they're criminal.

Likewise, my car has shitloads of servo motors and numerous mini computers or ECU's, each door has one FFS for example. The service manual shows them wedged in all over the place, under seats, in doors, loads under the dash, in the boot and engine bay, its quite scary really, just how much cars have been drive by wire devices these days.

Most of the motors in vehicles are simple DC motors, not servo motors. But what have the motors and ECU's to do with "Drive by wire"?? I can assure you, your car is not drive by wire, at the very most it might have an electric throttle system (unless you own an Infiniti Q50, in which case you will have recieved an appointment to have the steer by wire replaced with a mechanical solution). Brake by wire and steer by wire aren't on any commercially sold vehicle I know of.

Most of the smaller ECU's are just to reduce wiring and complexity. It's simpler to send commands via CAN or LIN to a door and then break it out into discrete i/o than to have a huge bunch or discrete wires going through the door hinge.

McBryce.

[Peter_O]

Exactly this. With a real switch or knob you can locate it by touch without taking your eyes off the road and then activate it.
This is impossible with a touch screen.

I had Volkswagens with the big built in satnav for many years. They have physical buttons for the top menu items and most important functions in the corners of the touchscreen, which you can easily find blind. That concept was always miles ahead of those turn and click thingies at the middle console, which Audi or BMW had. All VW guest drivers were able to find in and out all drill downs, where on a BMW you got lost after three clicks without any clear hint how to get back to the top layer without RTFMing.