Author Topic: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread  (Read 14563234 times)

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Offline mansaxel

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #119925 on: May 17, 2022, 12:09:44 pm »
The seat-belt bitchamatron beeping

It is there to make it nigh impossible to drive without being belted. That is a good thing for you, so stop bitching and buckle up.

I've had the belt/airbag bruises and scars from crashes I would not have walked/limped from had I not been buckled up, and I cherish the memories, because I would perhaps not be alive to do so otherwise.

Offline Zucca

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #119926 on: May 17, 2022, 12:09:51 pm »
Exactly this. With a real switch or knob you can locate it by touch without taking your eyes off the road and then activate it.
This is impossible with a touch screen.

How can we convince the entire car market they are going against a wall (no pun intended)?

It seems nowadays if it is not touchy it will not sell, test equipment included.
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« Last Edit: May 17, 2022, 12:15:13 pm by Zucca »
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Offline mansaxel

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #119927 on: May 17, 2022, 12:10:36 pm »

Nothing in the modern vehicle is worse than this and if it can't be easily disabled I'm buying something else !  :horse:

I see, so dying in the modern vehicle is less of a nuisance?

Offline Cerebus

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #119928 on: May 17, 2022, 12:10:55 pm »
Yes because also they tend to squeeze a mess of menus of menus inside of a touch screen. An old lady has no chance anymore to operate modern cars correctly.

Even if the layout was perfect, intuitive and didn't require any delving within menu levels, the delicacy and dexterity required to operate a touchscreen, and the focus necessary is a real no-no while trying to control a vehicle in a dynamic situation - dynamic both in terms of physically bouncing around and on terms of a 'dynamic environment' that requires your full attention to keep track of what's happening around you.

I've tried to use a single task touchscreen satnav on the move and determined that, for me at least, that's too difficult and dangerous a thing to be doing. To place most of a vehicle's auxiliary controls on a touchscreen seems to me to be one of the stupidest ideas ever.

And voice control? Let's put it like this, in a modern VW Golf with it you can get into a lot of trouble if you say the wrong sentence including the keyword "Volkwagen" to your passenger(s)...

Exactly this. With a real switch or knob you can locate it by touch without taking your eyes off the road and then activate it.
This is impossible with a touch screen.

The same applies to test gear too. If you want to adjust a parameter while watching the readings on some other instrument you can find, and operate, a Real KnobTM by touch alone.

That's the reason that I first reach for the older HP bench supplies in my collection that have real 25 turn potentiometers on the front panels rather than the digitally adjusted ones like the 6611C unless the job calls for the superior measurement capabilities of the fully digital ones. Even though the 6611C does actually have knobs with an encoder, they're not set up to merely be superior replacements for a potentiometer based setting, so even though there's a knob using it to adjust the supply is a much more complex task than just turning a Real KnobTM.
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Offline Zucca

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #119929 on: May 17, 2022, 12:14:23 pm »
Ditto Cerebus
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Offline Specmaster

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #119930 on: May 17, 2022, 12:16:40 pm »

All I know is that with the ignition on but the engine not running I'm unable to turn my steering wheel. My steering is electrical assist and not hydraulic. Had it been hydraulic that would explain it, but with the engine running I can turn the steering wheel with ease. As to if I can or can't turn the wheel when the car is moving, I have no idea, but would certainly have expected that to be the case for safety sake. That said, I seriously doubt that it would be safe to continue driving without the restoration of the power assistance.

That's because the electric power steering uses a lot of current, and won't work unless the engine is running and the alternator can shoulder the load, otherwise you'd soon not have enough in the battery to turn the engine over.


But that is the point, if I lost that power assistance when driving, would I still be able to safely steer the car, you admit that it would be almost impossible to do so with your car?
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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #119931 on: May 17, 2022, 12:20:23 pm »

All I know is that with the ignition on but the engine not running I'm unable to turn my steering wheel. My steering is electrical assist and not hydraulic. Had it been hydraulic that would explain it, but with the engine running I can turn the steering wheel with ease. As to if I can or can't turn the wheel when the car is moving, I have no idea, but would certainly have expected that to be the case for safety sake. That said, I seriously doubt that it would be safe to continue driving without the restoration of the power assistance.

That's because the electric power steering uses a lot of current, and won't work unless the engine is running and the alternator can shoulder the load, otherwise you'd soon not have enough in the battery to turn the engine over.


But that is the point, if I lost that power assistance when driving, would I still be able to safely steer the car, you admit that it would be almost impossible to do so with your car?

For most people, probably yes. I'm strong and it took me a lot of effort to steer the thing. I expect most people could manage to get it more or less to the side of the road, but that would be about it.
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Offline Cerebus

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #119932 on: May 17, 2022, 12:20:47 pm »
I know that somefolk love to pour scorn on Skoda's, but they are seriously misguided and I suggest that they go test drive one and have their minds changed.

No, we love to take the piss out of our mates who have Škoda's, there's a difference.  :)
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Offline Cerebus

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #119933 on: May 17, 2022, 12:22:23 pm »
I have a new toy, but I'm not allowed to show you  :(

My cousin Jill was just like you when we were kids. Always hinting that she had something to show me  and she never did.  :)
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Offline Specmaster

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #119934 on: May 17, 2022, 12:27:30 pm »
I know that somefolk love to pour scorn on Skoda's, but they are seriously misguided and I suggest that they go test drive one and have their minds changed.

No, we love to take the piss out of our mates who have Škoda's, there's a difference.  :)

HaHa, I still take mine over yours any day  :-DD

By the way, you do know what BMW means don't you? Back in Mechanics Workshop  ;)
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Offline mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #119935 on: May 17, 2022, 12:32:43 pm »
I have a new toy, but I'm not allowed to show you  :(

My cousin Jill was just like you when we were kids. Always hinting that she had something to show me  and she never did.  :)
Hope it wasn't that Jill that yer talkin' about...  :-DD

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #119936 on: May 17, 2022, 12:35:06 pm »
   Got my Zener tester and case today.   ;D  Also picked up the SOT23 test adapter because it looks really handy for general testing, so I'll use it with my other testers.

Now, I have a hole to fill.......

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« Last Edit: May 17, 2022, 12:37:24 pm by mnementh »
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Offline Cerebus

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #119937 on: May 17, 2022, 12:36:53 pm »
Another bit of stupidity: The seat-belt bitchamatron beeping takes precedence over all other auditory notification, including essential driver information like the turn-signal tick-tick and even the collision-avoidance emergency klaxon.

Hold on, let me get a beer and some popcorn, I wanna hear how you found out that exact final particular nugget of information!  :)
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Offline Cerebus

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #119938 on: May 17, 2022, 12:43:04 pm »
Hope it wasn't that Jill that yer talkin' about...  :-DD

mnem
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No, my actual cousin Jill, not Mrs. Rosie Palm.
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Offline Cerebus

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #119939 on: May 17, 2022, 12:50:24 pm »
I know that somefolk love to pour scorn on Skoda's, but they are seriously misguided and I suggest that they go test drive one and have their minds changed.

No, we love to take the piss out of our mates who have Škoda's, there's a difference.  :)

HaHa, I still take mine over yours any day  :-DD

By the way, you do know what BMW means don't you? Back in Mechanics Workshop  ;)

I refer my honourable friend to Ms. Rice-Davis' reply in Crown vs. Ward and the respondent's reply in Arkell vs. Pressdram.  :)
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Offline mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #119940 on: May 17, 2022, 01:06:31 pm »
Another bit of stupidity: The seat-belt bitchamatron beeping takes precedence over all other auditory notification, including essential driver information like the turn-signal tick-tick and even the collision-avoidance emergency klaxon.

Hold on, let me get a beer and some popcorn, I wanna hear how you found out that exact final particular nugget of information!  :)
Yeah, I'm not always best at getting my seatbelt on in a timely fashion except when the kids are in the car; the design places them pretty inconveniently to reach and the receiver for the buckle is deep in the seat and doesn't self-align (more really bad engineering) but rather fights you plugging it in.  :-[

Also, probably a bit of perverse subconscious resistance to being nagged by the bitch-in-a-box.  ::)

As for "How I know this..." Well, the collision avoidance warning resets itself every time the ignition is turned on, so rarely gets turned off, and it is pretty aggressive. As in some dingbat changing lanes a couple car-lengths ahead of me can set it off if they're moving quick enough, even though most drivers would consider it just normal city traffic or at worst "a wee bit of a rude driver".

Now imagine if said driver really did cut it close during that 30-60 seconds I sometimes take to "get around to it" or while I'm fumbling with my seatbelt because the bucking fuckle fights you... like close enough to trigger level 3; which is actual collision avoidance brake activation. It hasn't happened yet, but it probably is just a matter of time. And it is very obvious no real usability testing was done on this, because what happens when the driver ignores the bitch-a-ma-tron is an obvious real-world scenario which should be tested for. :palm:

Yeah, yeah, yeah... I know I should be wearing my seatbelt before I put it in gear. All I can claim in my defense is the usual old fart syndrome. :-//

mnem
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Offline mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #119941 on: May 17, 2022, 01:16:55 pm »
The seat-belt bitchamatron beeping

It is there to make it nigh impossible to drive without being belted. That is a good thing for you, so stop bitching and buckle up.

I've had the belt/airbag bruises and scars from crashes I would not have walked/limped from had I not been buckled up, and I cherish the memories, because I would perhaps not be alive to do so otherwise.
Has nothing to do with it being implemented in a dangerous fashion. A nag chime is not critical safety information, and should NEVER be given priority over anything that is. EVER.

If they really wanted to make sure it nagged you into compliance, they'd make it so the stereo muted and you had to listen to it until you put your seatbelt on.

Just imagine how many cars they'd get returned and shoved up a salesman's arse 24 hours after purchase if they did that. ::)

That level of nanny-state overreach would literally bankrupt them.

mnem
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« Last Edit: May 17, 2022, 01:20:22 pm by mnementh »
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Offline capt bullshot

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #119942 on: May 17, 2022, 01:27:03 pm »
« Last Edit: May 17, 2022, 01:38:38 pm by capt bullshot »
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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #119943 on: May 17, 2022, 01:40:56 pm »
Got my Zener tester and case today.   ;D

Also picked up the SOT23 test adapter becsuse it looks really handy for general testing, so I'll use it with my other testers.

Now, I have a hole to fill.......

Is that a joke ? All this talk about long term plans of making a DIY tester and now you got a ready made one with far superior performance and convenience... JKust be honest and say that you can't be arsed to make your own and that it will never see the light of day !  >:D

Well I am not usually a big fan of these PEAK testers in general, but in the particular case of this Zener tester, after looking at prices, it's more affordable than I thought. 55 Euros or so.
Like that you can select the current and have the dynamic resistance measured, decent voltage range at 50 Volts which can be used to test white LEDs or LEDs at large... compact, simple and fast, I might be tempted...  Just wish one could select the colour of the case. Every instrument tehy sell has a different colour, and colours are always a matter of taste  :-\

Flashy gree looks Rigol like... in a bad sense I mean...

I like the bright yellow case of their basic LCR meter... can I have yellow please ?

All their cases are the same across their product range, so it shouldn't cost that much to let one pick whatever colour he prefers, or just generic matte black ?! :-//

Yeah, I know I know... I'll make my own one some day because what kind of human would I be if I didn't?   :-/O  :-DD
But I need one now so shiny booger-green widget it is for now. :P



   Got my Zener tester and case today.   ;D  Also picked up the SOT23 test adapter because it looks really handy for general testing, so I'll use it with my other testers.

Now, I have a hole to fill.......

mnem
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mnem
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Yeah.... I saw that one.....  ;D It's pricey, but I think I already bought it in my mind with my next pay cheque. hahaha
Couldn't buy it this time as I had to fork out for some thunderbolt to firewire adapters to rip the inlaw's old Hi8 video tapes to PC, and the Apple ones are the only ones that are guaranteed to work 100%.
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Offline Saskia

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #119944 on: May 17, 2022, 01:51:14 pm »
@mnem
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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #119945 on: May 17, 2022, 01:54:51 pm »
I'm having some progress with the WT1600:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/yokogawa-wt1600-digital-power-meter/msg4179346/#msg4179346


Preliminary result: No hardware defect found, unit most probably needs calibration, I don't know how to do this.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/yokogawa-wt1600-digital-power-meter/msg4178653/#msg4178653


I'll send an email to Yokogawa Japan to see if I can squeeze a copy of the service manual out of them. :)
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Offline Vince

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #119946 on: May 17, 2022, 02:28:24 pm »
Oops... I got carried away.... no I am not going to move on to sorting the ICs. Just remembered I had a couple bins of more trannystors to sort first !  :scared:

TO3 and TO220 packages. some salvaged and usable (long enough legs), but motly intact legs so must be old stock.

At least these packages are easier to grab and to read the part number from, than all these pesky TO92 I just sorted.

Downside is... this sea of TO220 is most likely to be just as many different part numbers, will take me 3 days to pull all their respective datasheets to figure out what each and everyone of them
is !!!!  :scared:

Good side is... well, more varied stuff in my stock to play with !  >:D



OK I have finally finished sorting the pile of TO220 packages, see spreadsheet below.

Countless hours spent. almost 200 packages to go through. 95% of the stuff I was able to find a datasheet for, or at least basic specs from old scanned catalogues.
The remaining 5% was either impossible to identify, or legs too short, or identified but deemed useless because way too specialized.

Result is nice, as I have a bit of everything really !  :D

NPN
NPN Darlington
PNP
N-MOS
P-MOS
Diodes
Triac
Thyristors
Vreg linear, fixed and adjustable, even a few LDO ones. Even a fixed 9.3V one, what a weird voltage that is, I wonder what use case it was meant for ?!
Vreg switching, just one.

Even have a few audio amps ! No not at all into audio stuff, but I have a box full of random speakers, and one could use a little speaker in some project who knows, so I don't mind playing with a little amp and crappy speaker. They are all TDA, mono output.  A TDA 2030A (18Watts) and a TDA2052 (30Watts). I have two of the latter so I could make a stereo something or another  8)

Have a couple beautiful vintage Triacs : SC141D and SC142D, in gorgeous colourful packages, blue and red, with gold plated legs that are round rather the usual flat. I just love them  8)

Also have a few that I could not find any info on, despite being clearly identified and from a major brand... Texas Instruments.

1) PT1080B . Chinese tester says it's a NPN.

2) PT6009 - Chinese meter reacts to it the same way as it does whenever I stick a NPN Darlington into it : shows a ridiculously low hFE, like 20 or something instead of thousands. Also shows a diode between Collector and Emitter, as Darlington datasheets often show. So, I take it it's an NPN Darlington.

So I could play with that on the Tek 575 Curve tracer once it's going.

Also : I have a couple NPN that I am not 100% sure if the first letter is 'C' or a partially rubbed off 'D'. The rest of the number (4 digit) is the same : "1985".

So I don't know if I have one D1985 and one C1985, or two C1985 or two D1985.... full part number for these is 2SC1985 / 2SD1985. Both exist, both are NPN (chinese tester confirms that)
Both are rated at 60Volts.. however one is rated at 10MHz (6 amps) and the other 30MHz (3 amps). So it could be fun to play with them a bit and try to test their bandwidth to try to see which is which ?!  8)


MOSFETs : had none in my previous sorting session, the old stock from my Dad's work place. So... I am glad that in this random box of TO220 packages I DO have some !  :D
Quite a few actually ! Most are of course very old, with Rdson greater than one ohm, but I do have some more modern ones rated at about one ohm or less. Like, I have a few IRF630 in various guises, at 0.4ohms and no less than x8 2SK2461 rated at 20A and 0.1ohm.

So that's cool, I have quite a few MOSFET's to play with now.
99% of them are N-channel though, have only two that are P-channel ! Same with BJT's, NPN types are clearly more numerous than PNPs.

Also have one Thyristor, type 17127A that I have no datasheet or even any specs on it. All I could find out is that... it's a Thryristor. So I could play with it to try to figure out its basic specs and pinout. No, I am not gonna spend 100+ Euros on the Atlas PEAK SCR tester !  :-DD  Gonna be on the breadboard and that's it. Need to be educational fun... don't want to be spoon fed nor spend any money on that "project"...


So quite happy with that overall. Was a real chore to do but I now have a bit of everything to play with, was well worth it.  In total have downloaded and archived 120+ datasheets.


Next step : the bigger packages now, other than the TO3 I mean, as I have already sorted those the other day.  x30 IC's or so to research. I assume most of them are specialized for old CRT TV or monitor so will not be of any use/interest, but maybe some are general purpose enough that I could potentially decide to keep them. We shall see.



« Last Edit: May 17, 2022, 02:41:19 pm by Vince »
 
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Online McBryce

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #119947 on: May 17, 2022, 02:44:27 pm »
Hmm, good luck trying to steer cars from the VW stable when the electrics fail. My steering is impossible to turn the wheel with no electrics and the car is stationary, and no its that I'm too weak to do it, hell I used to drive and service buses that no power steering on them at all, and they weighed in at 8 tons. I could turn the wheels on them when stationary even.

It's almost impossible to turn the steering on any stationary vehicle without assist and on top of that the manufacturers have made it more difficult in modern vehicles by changing the ratios of the mechanical steering. When the car is moving you should still be able to steer, just more effort is involved.

McBryce.
All I know is that with the ignition on but the engine not running I'm unable to turn my steering wheel. My steering is electrical assist and not hydraulic. Had it been hydraulic that would explain it, but with the engine running I can turn the steering wheel with ease. As to if I can or can't turn the wheel when the car is moving, I have no idea, but would certainly have expected that to be the case for safety sake. That said, I seriously doubt that it would be safe to continue driving without the restoration of the power assistance.

In cars there are (at least) 3 defined power states:
B+ = Things permanently connected to the battery (these have sleep modes to avoid draining the battery)
KL15 = Things that get powered with ignition on but without a running engine.
KL30 = Things that only get powered when the engine is running.

Power steering, A/C, heated windscreen and other heavy loads don't get powered until the engine is running. So your power steering is still off if the engine isn't running.

McBryce.
30 Years making cars more difficult to repair.
 
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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #119948 on: May 17, 2022, 02:45:55 pm »
Well, that was easy. Used the new zener tester to find a bad 3.0V zener diode (VR55) in the 5V supply of my old-style Tek PG506 Calibration Generator.

Back to Akihabara tomorrow on the way in to work to get a new diode. :)
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Offline mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #119949 on: May 17, 2022, 03:10:27 pm »
@mnem
Userfriendly has gone offline permanently it seems. RIP Erwin, Pietr, Sid, ....
Yes, sadly Illiad has had a lot of IRL to deal with, and the cartoon has been in reruns-only mode for over a decade. I know he has said he mostly kept the lights on to keep the forums running which are still active among some diehard fans and those who like the space because it is "a mostly forgotten corner of the www"...

I suspect usage dwindled to the point where it was costing money instead of making money or at least supporting itself, and he had no choice but to pull the plug.  :-\

1st strip: https://web.archive.org/web/20220225094808/http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=19971117

While it will still be archived on the Wayback Machine, my experience with comic strips there has been pretty unsatisfactory... their archiving scripts are optimized to grab as much as possible while using as little storage as possible, so things can get disjointed. And of course, WbM's colossal latency due to the enormous amount stored in their archives.

One member at Hacker News has posted his archive of the strip itself from 1997-2013 here:

https://mega.nz/file/GKQQVbTY#1QmzfH7r2LAilAZU2RixI4yp-9IU6QS_-ppaHyXmVQU

No idea how long it will remain available; if it gets slammed, he may have to take it down.

For those who have no idea  :wtf: we're on aboot, here's the Wiki:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_Friendly#cite_note-2

UserFriendly was one of my first regularly viewed webcomics... along with General Protection Fault, Sluggy Freelance, Goats, and College Roomies From Hell... plus dozens of others I cannot recall right now... they helped me stave off "On the RoofTop With a Rifle" mode for most of my "professional engineer" life.  :-DD

Much as we all have a soft spot for Dilbert, he was like... "the sanitized for primetime TV" version of most of what I read as a twenty-to-thirtysomething...  :o

EDIT: *sound of a PFY knocking on the door with a shovel*

"Oh, hi Simon... yes, yes, yes... I promise, a complete oversight... you don't need the shovel, and here's a little something for your trouble... Oh, right... for the PFY too..."

Ahem... yes. We mustn't forget the Bastard Operator from Hell...

mnem
*plays a funeral dirge on waxpaper and comb kazoo*
« Last Edit: May 17, 2022, 08:07:33 pm by mnementh »
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