Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[tggzzz]

Oh and the Fluke 25 is far superior to the Fluke 75 for mV range measurements 

The Fluke 25 multitool is superior to most of its successors

[TERRA Operative]

Anyone know where I can pick up a copy of HP/Agilent/Keysight VEE for not an insane price (or free? )

[Specmaster]

I posted the "new" Tek in the Facebook "old" Tek group without any real comment from me and it started a lively and sane discussion until admin got a bug up their arse and without explanation deleted it.  Gee, one day that "new" Tek will be "old" Tek but I'll betcha 50 years hence it will be a chunk of inert silicon.

But of course a way off topic asking if a variac should be placed before or after an isolation transformer is acceptable. Yea, OK. 

Yeah, those pompous groups suck the fun out of everything, long live this thread and forum where we generally don't take things too seriously. We are pretty good at self-regulating most of the time. 

[Vince]

I didn't want to post my comment in the New Tek thread.

But what in the holy fuck is that abortion? 

Maybe I'm just getting too old for new dog tricks. 

Good lord, just woke up and that's the first thing I see ! It's quite violent ! 

An apple-like consumer grade tablet tarted up as a cheap chinese oscilloscope... what has the world come to !

I bet they will sell an acessorry, a hand piece you can plug to one of the BNC inpits to use it as a phone.
With some luck tehy will also sell a licence key to actually make it work as an oscilloscope.

Think it must be cheaper to buy a used cheap tablet and load an oscilloscope app...

I don't understand the thing. As a bench it's horrible, needlessly thin, not stable enough. As a portable scope... doesn't look rugged enough.
Other than an Apple competing fashionable object to show off at parties, I don't see the rationale behind this horror.... but that's OK, the worse modern scopes get, the more I like my older '60s and '90s scopes. 

If they sell it for less than 1,000 bucks, maybe they can sell them by the millions to makers kiddies, or schools.  But if it's a high-end extremely expensive scope, not sure.... 

[Specmaster]

Oh and the Fluke 25 is far superior to the Fluke 75 for mV range measurements 

The Fluke 25 multitool is superior to most of its successors

Yep, as is its stable-mate the 27.

[med6753]

I posted the "new" Tek in the Facebook "old" Tek group without any real comment from me and it started a lively and sane discussion until admin got a bug up their arse and without explanation deleted it.  Gee, one day that "new" Tek will be "old" Tek but I'll betcha 50 years hence it will be a chunk of inert silicon.

But of course a way off topic asking if a variac should be placed before or after an isolation transformer is acceptable. Yea, OK. 

Yeah, those pompous groups suck the fun out of everything, long live this thread and forum where we generally don't take things too seriously. We are pretty good at self-regulating most of the time. 

Yea, for sure. And it's not like I post crap over there nor do I go off the wall like I do here.  Same Tek content as here as well as answer questions related to fixing the old junk.

Oh well, they can go piss up a rope. 

[Vince]

There is this nice Nixie DMM for sale over here :

https://www.leboncoin.fr/collection/2093068228.htm

Looks cool. Guy even pretends it can measure Frequency ?! Of course that is reasonably common place in modern DMM's, but on older Nixie DMM, first time I encounter that. Obviously given that these old DMM's were basically counters at heart, it does not seem that far stretched to implement at least some rudimentary frequency meter  functionality. It's just that all the ones I have seen so far never had that.

...

The old HP/Dymec 2401A/2401C could measure frequency - to a blinding 300 kc, according to the spec sheet (it came out before Hz was widely used for frequency).




Shown here in the 'check' position with the expected 10 kHz display.

This one's still in the queue...

Additional pics:  https://pmanning.smugmug.com/Electronics/HPDymec-2401C-Integrating

-Pat

Thanks ! Looks really nice, would not mind one !!  ! I guess they must be rare 'n expensive, but you will tell me you got it for a tenner in some ham fest, or free found on the side of the road, just to drive me mad !!! 

Maybe they go for cheaper because they are not branded "HP"  ?!   
That would help me.

[Vince]

Here is a little riddle for the Tuesday morning for you:

What electronic part has this characteristic curve?

UJT then, OK... have ONE in stock ! Well, one type/model, but quantity of 29 ! Soi I can afford to blow a few of them nobody will report me to the police.
Now that might be TE prject of the day, try to plot their U/I curve...

Couldn't have been a tunnel diode as the curve is smooth, sinexwave looking curves to it.

The UJT has a perfeclty sharpt, linear region at the start, before it abruptly plummets.

So I thought it could have been a humble resistor that breaks down once voltage is too high across it.

[Specmaster]

I didn't want to post my comment in the New Tek thread.

But what in the holy fuck is that abortion? 

Maybe I'm just getting too old for new dog tricks. 

They ripped off the apple studio display design and managed to remove all class and sensibility and proportion from it. Aka they let the engineers design it

Is that apple juice she's drinking? Must be.

Don't drink the kool-aid (apple juice). 

Even the venerable TDS210 and its successors with their far bulkier frames suffer from a tendency to scoot all over the bench top when pressing a button, I'd hate to think how this one reacts under the same conditions.

[Vince]

You bad mouth, it's perfectlyt stable ! ... if you put it in front of your old (now unplugged) CRO to keep it from tilting !   

[McBryce]

Were any of the UK members here? Any good finds?
 

McBryce.

[RoGeorge]

Here is a little riddle for the Tuesday morning for you:

What electronic part has this characteristic curve?

hold my beer:


answer here:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/show-us-your-curve-tracer/msg4157683/#msg4157683

 

[bd139]

Were any of the UK members here? Any good finds?
 

McBryce.

Yes. See: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/msg4189222/#msg4189222

HP 427A initial check out: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/msg4189759/#msg4189759

Working on the 3465A at the moment. Has an input offset issue 

May have just bought something to help diagnose that 

[tggzzz]

Oh and the Fluke 25 is far superior to the Fluke 75 for mV range measurements 

The Fluke 25 multitool is superior to most of its successors

Yep, as is its stable-mate the 27.

Given that the only difference between the 25 and 27 is the plastic case, ... yes!

(For those that don't obsess over these things, the only difference is that the 27's case has two extra buttons)

[tautech]

I didn't want to post my comment in the New Tek thread.

But what in the holy fuck is that abortion? 

Maybe I'm just getting too old for new dog tricks. 

Notice the quite deeply recessed BNC's ?
Proprietary connectors required for them perhaps ? 

[tggzzz]

I posted the "new" Tek in the Facebook "old" Tek group without any real comment from me and it started a lively and sane discussion until admin got a bug up their arse and without explanation deleted it.  Gee, one day that "new" Tek will be "old" Tek but I'll betcha 50 years hence it will be a chunk of inert silicon.

But of course a way off topic asking if a variac should be placed before or after an isolation transformer is acceptable. Yea, OK. 

Yeah, those pompous groups suck the fun out of everything, long live this thread and forum where we generally don't take things too seriously. We are pretty good at self-regulating most of the time. 

Yea, for sure. And it's not like I post crap over there nor do I go off the wall like I do here.  Same Tek content as here as well as answer questions related to fixing the old junk.

Oh well, they can go piss up a rope. 

It is on Farcebook FFS, ∴ it sucks.

[bd139]

Probulators arrived courtesy Farnell. Expensive but worth it...

Got 2 sets of Pomona minigrabber leads and a full Keysight 34138A pack:



The keysight probes aren't cheap but they have all the nice attachments with them:



From left to right: 2x fine tipped pokers with insulation all the way down, 2x SMD grabbers, 1x normal grabber (for usual ground clip), 2x normal sheafed non retractable probes.

Fun fun fun. 34401A out for delivery too 

[med6753]

Even the venerable TDS210 and its successors with their far bulkier frames suffer from a tendency to scoot all over the bench top when pressing a button, I'd hate to think how this one reacts under the same conditions.

According to the boss that's the first thing he tested and it remains firm on the bench. We'll have to see his review to confirm.

[m k]

Philips PM 2421 is pretty close.

Thanks ! It's not "pretty close" you joker... it's 100% the same !  . Now I can google for it and just found better pics of it... and I can now see / read the front panel, what the buttons say.... no Frequency measurement that I can see...

The manual is here:

https://www.opweb.de/deutsch/firma/Philips/herunterladen/Philips--PM_2421--user--ID10878.pdf

Danke schön.
So indeed it can't measure frequency, as I thought... I think the seller got confused with the fact that there is a special connector in the bottom left corner labeled " HF ", the meter can measure AC voltages up to 700MHz with a special probe.
Nice feature though. Also, the basic Vdc accuracy is top notch at 0.1%.
Makes me want to buy it even more, if it were possible but again it isn't. However as always, when an RF mV meter doesn't come with its probe, it's pretty much useless isn't it ?! 

I played safe since there are at least 2 different faces.
Fase1 in your picture and fase2 where model type is more left and device type font is different.
ID plates PM 2421/A5 and PM 2421/ I've seen but both had face2.
freeservicemanuals copy has also a service data, chapters VII to XV.
Chapter XIV describes HF Probe and capacitive attenuator.
Both manuals are using both face pictures and face2 seems to be newer.

https://radio-bastler.de/forum/showthread.php?tid=6091
https://www.pa4tim.nl/?p=1838
https://www.ebay.de/itm/274956589397
https://mniec.wordpress.com/2020/11/29/philips-pm2421-a5-bench-dmm-digital-multimeter-vintage-4-digit-5-nixie-tube/
https://tuberadiovintage.biz/2019/01/30/philips-pm2421-digital-multimeter-vintage-nixie-tube-cold-cathode-amateur-radio/

[Saskia]

Received a Nakamichi Receiver 3 in the mail today. In good nick, with the service manual, remote, both antennas.
110 Pesos incl shipping. Would most likely have a few schpeakahs do go with it (IQ or similar). Or force the thing upon my daughter to use with the T&A trannymissionline gizmos (TMR 80, superb for the money) and keep the SR3 I had planned for her originally ...

hmmmm ....

also had some really nasty luck with a shipping/parcel service provider who swapped 2 license required hand deliver packages and is now hurrying to swap them boxes back.
Huuuuge shitshow.

[xrunner]

Even the venerable TDS210 and its successors with their far bulkier frames suffer from a tendency to scoot all over the bench top when pressing a button, I'd hate to think how this one reacts under the same conditions.

According to the boss that's the first thing he tested and it remains firm on the bench. We'll have to see his review to confirm.

Dave said it "Didn't scoot around". LOL - where I worked that's not the thing I would be worried about - it's that it would be knocked over backwards ten times a day what with that stand they designed. People (a.k.a. gorillas) moving other equipment, books, papers, cables, trying to hurry. People stacked equipment up to make room - how do you stack it?  It looks like a piece of art on a picture stand. As my joke goes - how the hell am I supposed to sit my coffee cup on top of that thing? 

Maybe on a quiet engineer's desk ... no, it wouldn't make it where I came from. Destroyed in a year

[Cerebus]

Oh and the Fluke 25 is far superior to the Fluke 75 for mV range measurements 

The Fluke 25 multitool is superior to most of its successors

Yep, as is its stable-mate the 27.

Given that the only difference between the 25 and 27 is the plastic case, ... yes!

(For those that don't obsess over these things, the only difference is that the 27's case has two extra buttons)

And I don't think the 25 was available with the bright yellow case, whereas it was standard for all generations of the 27s. That's how I tell mine apart; well that and the fact that I can read the display on the 27 anywhere but the 25's display is showing it's age and is merely 'OK' rather than excellent (the other night I was reading my 27 in the dark from the street lighting that managed to filter around a raised car bonnet with no difficulty whatsoever). I don't think I have actually used either of the two extra buttons in anger.

[med6753]

Even the venerable TDS210 and its successors with their far bulkier frames suffer from a tendency to scoot all over the bench top when pressing a button, I'd hate to think how this one reacts under the same conditions.

According to the boss that's the first thing he tested and it remains firm on the bench. We'll have to see his review to confirm.

Dave said it "Didn't scoot around". LOL - where I worked that's not the thing I would be worried about - it's that it would be knocked over backwards ten times a day what with that stand they designed. People (a.k.a. gorillas) moving other equipment, books, papers, cables, trying to hurry. People stacked equipment up to make room - how do you stack it?  It looks like a piece of art on a picture stand. As my joke goes - how the hell am I supposed to sit my coffee cup on top of that thing? 

Maybe on a quiet engineer's desk ... no, it wouldn't make it where I came from. Destroyed in a year

If you read between the lines it seems Dave is quite enamored with the new Tek so far. Want to see his review. But it still looks like a hot mess to me. 

[mnementh]

   I didn't want to post my comment in the New Tek thread. But what in the holy fuck is that abortion? 

Maybe I'm just getting too old for new dog tricks. 

They ripped off the apple studio display design and managed to remove all class and sensibility and proportion from it. Aka they let the engineers design it.

Ummm, yeah... but if they hadn't let engineers design it and went totally fApple design ethos, it wouldn't even have knobs or BNCs; it would be a USB-C dongle on a iPud.
Or worse, connected via BTLE.

mnem
I give it a iFixit repairability score of ~0.7.

[mnementh]

Were any of the UK members here? Any good finds?   https://youtu.be/S3inURTaOEg   McBryce.

mnem