Author Topic: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread  (Read 14560081 times)

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #133375 on: March 20, 2023, 08:21:24 am »
I have yet to find a carbon composite that hasn't drifted, most outside their specs, some even into the next value range.

Even new-old-stock resistors have drifted by now, but a slow bakeout and a spray with some laquer or enamel or something to stop the moisture getting back in has them pretty good again.
Where does all this test equipment keep coming from?!?

https://www.youtube.com/NearFarMedia/
 
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Offline m k

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #133376 on: March 20, 2023, 08:59:39 am »
With a 24x5[AB], I'd presume the battery backed RAM had lost its calibration constants.

Yes, but isn't that just "some" elbow grease?

I'm also quite sure I've changed some Dallas chip or the like batteries by just popping the top open.
No idea though what could be a current status of any of those kinds.

Dallas chip is mechanically quite big.
Still no flash + super cap replacements?
Advance-Aneng-Appa-AVO-Data Tech-Fluke-General Radio-H. W. Sullivan-Heathkit-HP-Kaise-Kyoritsu-Leeds & Northrup-Mastech-REO-Simpson-Sinclair-Tektronix-Triplett-YFE
(plus lesser brands from the work shop of the world)
 

Offline wkb

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #133377 on: March 20, 2023, 09:08:07 am »
Yep, with enough persistence you can take the top that holds the battery off the Dallas chips and connect a fresh lithium battery.

I did that like 30+ years ago to fix Sun 3 workstations  :palm:
 

Offline tggzzz

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #133378 on: March 20, 2023, 10:31:00 am »
With a 24x5[AB], I'd presume the battery backed RAM had lost its calibration constants.

Yes, but isn't that just "some" elbow grease?

I'm also quite sure I've changed some Dallas chip or the like batteries by just popping the top open.
No idea though what could be a current status of any of those kinds.

Dallas chip is mechanically quite big.
Still no flash + super cap replacements?

Possibly, but possibly not.

In either case, it certainly isn't "fleabay used".

What exactly is contained in the cal constants. From my limited recollection it is more than just scale+offset information, and it wasn't clear whether it could be recalibrated using only general purpose gear. If not, it could be as useful as a DMM that read 1V with the inputs shorted and 9V when connected to a 10V source.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2023, 10:33:03 am by tggzzz »
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
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Offline tggzzz

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #133379 on: March 20, 2023, 10:33:56 am »
Yep, with enough persistence you can take the top that holds the battery off the Dallas chips and connect a fresh lithium battery.

IIRC that is easier with some modules than others. I intend to avoid doing it :)
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less
 

Offline wkb

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #133380 on: March 20, 2023, 10:38:39 am »
Yep, with enough persistence you can take the top that holds the battery off the Dallas chips and connect a fresh lithium battery.

IIRC that is easier with some modules than others. I intend to avoid doing it :)

Yes, true, it depends on the brand/type how 'easy' it is.  It is an option if an easier solution (new part) is not readily available.

 

Offline m k

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #133381 on: March 20, 2023, 05:59:14 pm »
My recollection is that the chip was meant to be like that and had two regular coin cells inside.
Seems to be a replica of some sort then.

Some needed stuff for cal seems to be also less than usual for average operator.
Advance-Aneng-Appa-AVO-Data Tech-Fluke-General Radio-H. W. Sullivan-Heathkit-HP-Kaise-Kyoritsu-Leeds & Northrup-Mastech-REO-Simpson-Sinclair-Tektronix-Triplett-YFE
(plus lesser brands from the work shop of the world)
 

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #133382 on: March 20, 2023, 06:04:52 pm »
Calling all people with a National Instruments ISA GPIB-PCII/IIA GPIB card and a chip reader!

Seems my faulty card is maybe, possibly, likely due to a failed GAL16V8D. I think if someone could read out theirs and give me the file, I might be able to reprogram this chip, or a new one and maybe get this card working again...
Mine is a Rev 2.1 board with the big NAT4882D chip, not the VLSI chip. Unfortunately my other cards aren't the same revision, so the GAL image won't work..

Old PALs are public, maybe they can tell something.

Advance-Aneng-Appa-AVO-Data Tech-Fluke-General Radio-H. W. Sullivan-Heathkit-HP-Kaise-Kyoritsu-Leeds & Northrup-Mastech-REO-Simpson-Sinclair-Tektronix-Triplett-YFE
(plus lesser brands from the work shop of the world)
 
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Offline Vince

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #133383 on: March 20, 2023, 06:33:40 pm »
Wow, incredible that such document is available, that's seriously cool, thanks for sharing  :-+
 

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #133384 on: March 20, 2023, 06:38:12 pm »


This one just popped up here.

https://www.leboncoin.fr/collection/2319414926.htm

Not interested myself but I know some people like these, and this one is a winner.
Only 50 Euros because seller says he can't test it because he knows squat about scopes, but there is a spot on the CRT so chances are it's fixable, or maybe works just fine as it is. So risk is low.
In excellent nick and seller willing to ship (I could help with export if needed).

Also, comes with its original bespoke leather carry case, also in excellent nick.

Even comes with a period kind of probe.

A museum piece in working order for cheap, I am sure it could make someone happy.

« Last Edit: March 20, 2023, 06:40:37 pm by Vince »
 
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Offline factory

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #133385 on: March 20, 2023, 08:40:32 pm »
My morbid curiosity wonders how much of an improvement replacing all those carbon composite resistors with 1% 50ppm metal films will have on stability?....
Hopefully, the output stability won't depend in any significant way on the performance of the carbon composition resistors. There ought to be only metal film or wire-wound resistors in the critical parts of the circuitry that determine the calibrator accuracy.

Really it's not that good as a calibrator, I'm sure it's meant for checking analog meters, you set it with the ten turn dial on the front, no precise switched resistors, to make better use you need another DMM to set it.
The AC is next to useless for checking anything more than a 3½ digit meter (not stable enough past that), the AC ref uses the incoming mains signal, don't know how good it was back in the 60s when this was designed, but it's very bad these days with noise & distortion from all the modern crap. It does have an external ref input, but that comes with the risk of inverter damage if the ref fails for any reason.

I've got lots of metal film resistors in the correct size, but no idea how good they are in terms of ppm, all were bought from work, I don't intend to change the carbon resistors anyway. There are some wirewound & film resistors in the 6920B too.

I do wonder how it compares to the RFL/Clarke Hess calibrator, that some others on here have.  :-//

David
 
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Offline oz2cpu

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #133386 on: March 20, 2023, 09:01:10 pm »
my latest unit
Oltronix LS 524 R Regulated High Voltage Power Supply 2kV 20W Tube 1960
made by Oltronix stockholm sweden, about 1960-70 all tube based 3 x EL34, two voltage ranges 200-1000 V and 1000V to 1750V
important and a bit dangerous note, no ranges start from zero ! this means the output on/off go straight from 0 to 200 or 1kV !! so your experiment need to be able to handle that.
6 caps in series some leaky so max mains voltage is 180V AC at the moment before i get that fixed.

video about it here: https://youtu.be/WQFzSad2R_8
Radioamateur OZ2CPU, Senior EE at Prevas
EMC RF SMPS SI PCB LAYOUT and all that stuff.
 
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Offline Specmaster

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #133387 on: March 20, 2023, 09:02:06 pm »
@Vince Seeing as you have just recently been repairing some Quad audio gear, I thought this video might of interest to you and explains about what the name stood for and gives some info as to their position in the Hi-Fi market etc.

Who let Murphy in?

Brymen-Fluke-HP-Thurlby-Thander-Tek-Extech-Black Star-GW-Avo-Kyoritsu-Amprobe-ITT-Robin-TTi
 

Offline Vince

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #133388 on: March 20, 2023, 10:15:30 pm »
Thanks for the link. I used to be subscribed to his channel a while ago.

Indeed interesting to know that QUAD actually is not a word but an acronym that does mean something !  :-+

He seems to like this QAUD gear, but at some point of the video he speak some audiophoolery language which discredits him.
But yeah, I understand QUAD was appreciated in the old days.

As for my QUAD 33/303 pair, it's still not finished I am afraid... I tried to order the trannies and cheap 1 buck 4 pin DIN connectors I need, along with the light bulbs for my Tek 7603 all in on order. No luck. Spent a lot of time checking several sites but no one seller had  all of these items, never mind in stock. Resorted to checking Digikey and Mouser, and splash 50 Euros with them... still no luck.

So I am so upset and bored and fed up with this repair taking forever...that I have now got used to the idea of spending 10 Euros of shipping to buy the trannies in one place, the DIN connectors in another place, and give up on getting the bulbs altogether. 2 out of 3 work and the scope is usable as is, so no emergency there, especially since it's not my daily driver.

So yeah, I need to order these freaking trannies and DIN connectors this week if I want to push these amps out the door at long last....

Before I get rid of them I will try playing some music through them just in case I like it. So far I have only tried them with a tone from my sig gen.

 
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Offline Vince

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #133389 on: March 20, 2023, 10:36:35 pm »


This a Tek 7504 scope.... from my big TE haul from a few months ago.
It's a parts unit in extremely poor shape... so finally yesterday I took it to bits to salvage what I could from it...  not much that is, it's too far gone...

Salvaged all the electronic boards, but not much seems worth keeping on them... I do see a bucket load of Tek speciifc IC's though.
Kept the main transformer, because it looks nice (same style as Tek hollow state scopes), and because I can probably make use of it to build a linear adjustable HV low / moderate current power supply. I want one in the lab to play with old displays and neon bulbs and things.

Anyway, I also salvaged one of the can caps in the PSU, because it's so huge it's ridiculous. As big if not  a bit bigger than a 33cl soda can...  54,000uF 15Vdc I think it is.
Lots of fun to be had with such a monster, I could not get myself to scrap it.
Also kept 99% of the nuts and screws, so I have a little stock to help me refurbish my hollow state Tek scopes.
That is why I took this scope apart commmmmmmpletely. 100%. 

I worked no less than 6 solid hours at the bench to take it apart. It is so complex, such a pain to work on.... I thought my rack mount 7603 was bad... it's not. It's a walk in the park compared to this 7504.
If any- of you have one of these scopes : I do feel for you. I would not want to touch one of these with a barge pole. I would rather slit my wrists than try to work on these scopes. Yes, that bad. It is complete insanity.

Kept a few pots from the front panel. A nice wirewound one, a couple small sealed precision ones as well. A few 1% power resistors from the H/V amplifiers.

Anyway, I merely posted to offer the Tek specific IC's to my TEA friends. If you need one or more of these chips to fix your 7000 scope, just ask and I will see if I have it. Free of course, just shipping.... can't be bothered to sell them on Ebay, not worth my time. Not much to be salvaged on all these boards, so I think I will just pull all these IC's and scrap the boards.


Again, my deepest condolences to the poor souls that own one of these scopes.

« Last Edit: March 20, 2023, 10:43:49 pm by Vince »
 
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Offline Neomys Sapiens

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #133390 on: March 21, 2023, 02:12:43 am »
@Vince: can you salvage the current clamp calibration fixture?
 

Offline xrunner

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #133391 on: March 21, 2023, 02:17:19 am »
This a Tek 7504 scope.... from my big TE haul from a few months ago.
It's a parts unit in extremely poor shape... so finally yesterday I took it to bits to salvage what I could from it...  not much that is, it's too far gone...

Back in the day TEA - when gear had real power switches!  :box:
I told my friends I could teach them to be funny, but they all just laughed at me.
 

Offline m k

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #133392 on: March 21, 2023, 11:07:57 am »
Calling all people with a National Instruments ISA GPIB-PCII/IIA GPIB card and a chip reader!

Seems my faulty card is maybe, possibly, likely due to a failed GAL16V8D. I think if someone could read out theirs and give me the file, I might be able to reprogram this chip, or a new one and maybe get this card working again...
Mine is a Rev 2.1 board with the big NAT4882D chip, not the VLSI chip. Unfortunately my other cards aren't the same revision, so the GAL image won't work..

I've now seen many different board versions, didn't save all different pictures and now some are hiding.
But dang how bad pictures people take, and for selling stuff.

All silk versions from B to E are using original GAL and VLSI controller chip.

Sticker versions REV.1 and REV 001 are mainly using B version GAL and NI chip.
But I've also seen original GAL with NI chip and B GAL with VLSI chip.
Controller internals are of course unknown but stamped types are not changing.
Obvious resolderings were also missing.

Sticker version REV.2 I found had normal NI chip and B version GAL.
Same with hand written sticker version REV.NG23
Partnumbers are not advancing with revisions.

Maybe they have had some production problems and it's compensated with modified support logic.
Doesn't help much either way.

For NI part numbers I'd say that they are for different other components.
No idea what makes a revision.

Only different component layout I found was 181065-08 REV.E when normal is -01.
There J2 and J3 are present and DIP pack is one short, PCII/PCIIA is missing and changed to 3 pin short a bit above, marked PCII PCIIA PCIIB.
So electrically still most likely the same.

Support files have also a readme.txt
The language interfaces supplied with this handler contain
information about the new NI-488.2 software routines.  The
Revision E handlers do not support these functions.  If you try to
access any of these NI-488.2 routines, this handler returns the
error ECAP.  If you need to access these new NI-488.2 routines,
you must upgrade to our new IEEE-488.2 compatible hardware and
software (Version 1.0 and later).

Can it be that sticker versions are just too new.
Quite nasty if true.
Maybe only some driver updates are finally needed.

How are those two cards connected internally?
I remember something that one can be PCII and other PCIIA.
Advance-Aneng-Appa-AVO-Data Tech-Fluke-General Radio-H. W. Sullivan-Heathkit-HP-Kaise-Kyoritsu-Leeds & Northrup-Mastech-REO-Simpson-Sinclair-Tektronix-Triplett-YFE
(plus lesser brands from the work shop of the world)
 
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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #133393 on: March 21, 2023, 11:54:55 am »
I'm using the cards in PCIIA mode, but that shouldn't affect things too much..

I'll have two working cards soon when my third card arrives, so I'll try to read out the GAL chips and see if they are different.

Maybe I should get my hands on some blank GAL chips and try programming them from copies from my good cards and see how they work on the bad card.
Where does all this test equipment keep coming from?!?

https://www.youtube.com/NearFarMedia/
 

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #133394 on: March 21, 2023, 03:26:53 pm »
Annddd, now I have a Tek THS720 (with carry bag and charger) on the way... It has the usual burnt polarizer on the LCD, but it seems to work according to the pictures in the listing.

I'll upgrade it to a THS720P and update the firmware if needed. Might even try and see if the TDS210 to TDS220 upgrade hack (Tell the scope it is the higher model then run the appropriate adjustment routine before rebooting it) will work to upgrade this THS720 to a THS730. ([EDIT] Just looked at the schematics, might be a case of swapping resistors and maybe one or two other parts to make the upgrade)
Probably end up doing the LED backlight mod, and building a new battery pack while I have it in pieces.

Will be handy for working on the car and for the youtubes, easier to lay on the bench under the camera than the TDS220..


Should provide a few hours of fun giving it a bit of love on the healing bench.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2023, 03:41:12 pm by TERRA Operative »
Where does all this test equipment keep coming from?!?

https://www.youtube.com/NearFarMedia/
 
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Offline Vince

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #133395 on: March 21, 2023, 04:57:06 pm »
@Vince: can you salvage the current clamp calibration fixture?

Wow, crap, I have already tossed the scope remains to the junk yard yesterday 5PM as soon as I got back from work... it was taking up way too much space... along with two other TE I took apart as well the same day.

I am so sorry Neomys !!  :(

 

Offline Vince

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #133396 on: March 21, 2023, 04:59:56 pm »
This a Tek 7504 scope.... from my big TE haul from a few months ago.
It's a parts unit in extremely poor shape... so finally yesterday I took it to bits to salvage what I could from it...  not much that is, it's too far gone...

Back in the day TEA - when gear had real power switches!  :box:

Yes the size of the power switch in this scope kinda shocked me I must say, that's one bigass switch.... rest assured I did salvage the thing !  8)

Simply operating it requires some muscle. Maybe they should have put a 4 inch long "bat" on it to give some leverage...

 

Offline Vince

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #133397 on: March 21, 2023, 05:03:50 pm »
Annddd, now I have a Tek THS720 (with carry bag and charger) on the way... It has the usual burnt polarizer on the LCD, but it seems to work according to the pictures in the listing.

I'll upgrade it to a THS720P and update the firmware if needed. Might even try and see if the TDS210 to TDS220 upgrade hack (Tell the scope it is the higher model then run the appropriate adjustment routine before rebooting it) will work to upgrade this THS720 to a THS730. ([EDIT] Just looked at the schematics, might be a case of swapping resistors and maybe one or two other parts to make the upgrade)
Probably end up doing the LED backlight mod, and building a new battery pack while I have it in pieces.

Will be handy for working on the car and for the youtubes, easier to lay on the bench under the camera than the TDS220..


Should provide a few hours of fun giving it a bit of love on the healing bench.

Oh so you are expanding your old Tek scope expertise to this line of prodcuts as well ?!

GREAT !.... because I really like them and would get one one day.
Very low on my priority list money wise, so it's only a remote idea.
But just in case, get whatever model is the top of the range, give it all the mods it can take, polish it up, and stack it on that TDS 784D that's marked "Vince".
It should not increase the price of shipping all that much I would think...

 
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Offline m k

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #133398 on: March 21, 2023, 05:09:17 pm »
I'm using the cards in PCIIA mode, but that shouldn't affect things too much..

Try both as single cards in PCII mode, then at least I/O area is compact.
Also, don't use FAS but instead one of those diag things.

PCIIA is hardcoded to 0x2E1 and A13 and A14 select card 0 - 3.
So 0x02E1, 0x22E1, 0x42E1, 0x62E1, old one's A15 coded optional RTC.
So all over the place.
PCII then is normal 8 wide selected by A3-9.

I'm not sure how PCIIA interrupts are connected but manual says that jumpers and DIPs must match.

Shared Interrupts in GPIB-PCIIA Mode
The GPIB-PCIIA uses a special feature of the PC called shared interrupts. This
feature allows more than one device to share the same interrupt line, if both
devices have the ability to share interrupts. If you use the GPIB-PCII/IIA in
GPIB-PCIIA mode and you want to change the interrupt line, you must set
switches I0, I1, and I2 in switch set U2 to the line setting in addition to setting
the interrupt jumpers.

Old card had only one interrupt in and jumpers coded from which line it is coming.
Now shared interrupt must be able to answer to did you do it.
So my prediction is that old single line is still there for PCII, but added with card internal DIPs of what it actually is.
Advance-Aneng-Appa-AVO-Data Tech-Fluke-General Radio-H. W. Sullivan-Heathkit-HP-Kaise-Kyoritsu-Leeds & Northrup-Mastech-REO-Simpson-Sinclair-Tektronix-Triplett-YFE
(plus lesser brands from the work shop of the world)
 

Offline factory

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #133399 on: March 21, 2023, 06:08:37 pm »
...snip...

As for my QUAD 33/303 pair, it's still not finished I am afraid... I tried to order the trannies and cheap 1 buck 4 pin DIN connectors I need, along with the light bulbs for my Tek 7603 all in on order. No luck. Spent a lot of time checking several sites but no one seller had  all of these items, never mind in stock. Resorted to checking Digikey and Mouser, and splash 50 Euros with them... still no luck.

So I am so upset and bored and fed up with this repair taking forever...that I have now got used to the idea of spending 10 Euros of shipping to buy the trannies in one place, the DIN connectors in another place, and give up on getting the bulbs altogether. 2 out of 3 work and the scope is usable as is, so no emergency there, especially since it's not my daily driver.

So yeah, I need to order these freaking trannies and DIN connectors this week if I want to push these amps out the door at long last....

Before I get rid of them I will try playing some music through them just in case I like it. So far I have only tried them with a tone from my sig gen.

If it helps I will be ordering from Mouser at some point this week, I'm sure the capacitors I want will be more than enough to exceed the free shipping limit, will probably get a few extra 74LS90 in SOIC too, they are about £2 each.

David
 
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