Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[Robert763]

You can't really blame C155 for giving up the ghost. Only a muppet or an accountant puts a 20V capacitor on a 0-20V supply output....

[med6753]

You can't really blame C155 for giving up the ghost. Only a muppet or an accountant puts a 20V capacitor on a 0-20V supply output....

You noticed that too? I did and the replacements are rated at 35V.

[duckduck]

You can't really blame C155 for giving up the ghost. Only a muppet or an accountant puts a 20V capacitor on a 0-20V supply output....

[(hp)] did this in my 34401A with a component that was rated for just above the input voltage for that area of the PCB. That little bugger gave up the smoke and put the AC-measuring side of the unit out of action until I replaced it with a something rated for +50% of what it was originally spec'ed for. I'm glad that it happened because I got the crippled DMM for cheap and it was a fix so easy that a regular bloke could handle it.

We need to put the bean counters on a ship to Antarctica and install only the cheapest lifeboats...

[tggzzz]

We need to put the bean counters on a ship to Antarctica and install only the cheapest lifeboats...

That's been tried with the Golgafrinchman B Ark, and look at the consequences.

[srb1954]

We need to put the bean counters on a ship to Antarctica and install only the cheapest lifeboats...

Better to ship them north rather than south. There are some starving polar bears up there who soon finish them off.

It would be a bit of poetic justice for them to be eaten by polar bears since past actions taken by bean counters are, in large part, responsible for the current plight of the polar bears.

[tautech]

Never ceases to amaze me how many still believe in The Convenient Lie. 

[tggzzz]

Never ceases to amaze me how many still believe in The Convenient Lie. 

Never ceases to amaze me how denialists "justify" their opinions.

Their typical political[1] affiliations don't surprise me, however.

[1] big hint.

[m k]

Sunspot! Don't forget sunspots!

[tautech]

Never ceases to amaze me how many still believe in The Convenient Lie. 

Never ceases to amaze me how denialists "justify" their opinions.

Their typical political[1] affiliations don't surprise me, however.

[1] big hint.

It also amazes me how many smart ppl can overlook the continually developing science, not all based on fact, but agendas with vested interest.

[tggzzz]

Never ceases to amaze me how many still believe in The Convenient Lie. 

Never ceases to amaze me how denialists "justify" their opinions.

Their typical political[1] affiliations don't surprise me, however.

[1] big hint.

It also amazes me how many smart ppl can overlook the continually developing science, not all based on fact, but agendas with vested interest.

Occam's Razor rules

Extraordinary theories require extraordinary predictions. Correct predictions lead to the theory being accepted and the science changing. In the absence of correct predictions, the boring consensus is the best answer.

It always amazes me how otherwise smart people can ignore Occam's Razor. Ditto otherwise smart people jumping on board wacky FUD and ignoring the hidden agenda behind the wacky FUD. Such hidden agendas can be financial (e.g. Koch brothers) or political (e.g. Trump).

Usually wacky FUD is nothing more than FUD. FUD enhanced by AI+$$ nowadays.

[m k]

That earlier 5007R and 7104A pair, I thought it must be used somewhere else also, but maybe time was possibly worst for that.
(IC Master '77 has them as 3-1/2 Digits, 2 device set, others with 5007 are different)
My Data Tech/Triplett/what ever panel meters are internally pretty far from stuff that Intersil was offering late '70s.
(like 7103A and B, and 7104 but not A)

Was 2V back then an easy range or was it for something generally needed?

'77 Fluke 8020A.
'78 ICL7106, with Fluke logo inside.

'82 Intel MCS-96.
'83 Fluke 70 series.

...

'88 ICA power meter
'93 software upgrade

Fringe for sure, but neat and tidy, almost.
Red wires are for buttons, other connectors are clipped.

It's a tool for uninterruptible power supply salesman.
If memory serves M03/1 is an older 300W model with level 1 battery back.

After few tries with the fan I got >1600 estimation, smaller ones are rejected since initial overcurrent is too much.
That was a fundamental UPS problem back then, including full power rectifier made them also pricey.
Then IPS kicked in and UPS makers found them selves pretty much without customers.
Adding overcurrent capabilities to smaller machines was too late.
Now UPS is sort of a fringe thing and IPS has a more marketable name.

ICA factory is still alive, more or less, owned by Eaton.
Seems that old place is a history now, new location since last year, not very usual thing around here.

[AVGresponding]

That earlier 5007R and 7104A pair, I thought it must be used somewhere else also, but maybe time was possibly worst for that.
(IC Master '77 has them as 3-1/2 Digits, 2 device set, others with 5007 are different)
My Data Tech/Triplett/what ever panel meters are internally pretty far from stuff that Intersil was offering late '70s.
(like 7103A and B, and 7104 but not A)

Was 2V back then an easy range or was it for something generally needed?

'77 Fluke 8020A.
'78 ICL7106, with Fluke logo inside.

'82 Intel MCS-96.
'83 Fluke 70 series.

...

'88 ICA power meter
'93 software upgrade

Fringe for sure, but neat and tidy, almost.
Red wires are for buttons, other connectors are clipped.

It's a tool for uninterruptible power supply salesman.
If memory serves M03/1 is an older 300W model with level 1 battery back.

After few tries with the fan I got >1600 estimation, smaller ones are rejected since initial overcurrent is too much.
That was a fundamental UPS problem back then, including full power rectifier made them also pricey.
Then IPS kicked in and UPS makers found them selves pretty much without customers.
Adding overcurrent capabilities to smaller machines was too late.
Now UPS is sort of a fringe thing and IPS has a more marketable name.

ICA factory is still alive, more or less, owned by Eaton.
Seems that old place is a history now, new location since last year, not very usual thing around here.

They are still quite common in certain applications; our datacentres use them, also our CCTV suites, with gensets, though none of our office buildings do any more. We do have one building that is entirely powered through an online UPS, backed by a genset.

[m k]

Is the genset behind a firewall?

[AVGresponding]

Haha no but they are external and caged

[flash2b]

Both last year at HAM Radio 2023 and this year at HAM Radio 2024 I came across an old HP True RMS Voltmeter that I purchased.

So I now own a HP3403A (1972 Made in USA) and a HP3403C (1974 Made in USA).

Although these meters are quite old, they have quite good specs and can measure up to 100MHz AC TRMS and can handle a high crest factor of the input signal. The meter can also be used floating by using a special HP 5040-5847 BNC to Banana adapter that presses a small switch below the BNC input to make the input floating from the chassis ground.

The HP3403's have a peculiar range selector and cannot simply be switched down a range (for more digits) or up (for fewer digits), which is common with other meters. This is because the beginning and end of each range is different and does not start from 0.000 (mV or V). This is clearly stated on the card that is stored under the device and can be pulled out.

After connecting a function generator and a splitter, both meters appeared to function properly. Below, an AC signal of 10MHz is offered via a 50Ω terminated generator, splitter and 50Ω terminated meters. No crazy values!



Also tested with an offset of 1V (for AC+DC) and frequencies up to 100MHz and tested the DC mode. All ranges and combinations DC, AC+DC and AC ultimately worked fine. Did not thoroughly verify all deviations, but it all looked very good.

Both meters are beautifully made and quite heavy for their size. The range/function switches do not switch directly, but control relays that are located in the signal path on the PCBs. The HP3403A has such a beautiful HP display with dots that the HP3403C does not have and is equipped with a normal LED display. Both of my units do not have an auto range because that was an option and it is missing in mine, although the front of the 'C' suggests otherwise.

It's a shame that the plastic on the buttons of many HP devices eventually deteriorates and that the front of my HP3403A (bottom of the photo) is no longer that nice. I have already replaced the 2 much-too-modern knobs with period-correct Japanese ones and it already looks much better.

[factory]

Only the early ones have a dotty display, which are actually part of a separate DPM module, used in many HP devices, they were made in three variations over the years; a dotty LED module, separate dotty LEDs and ordinary 7 segment LEDs.
As well as being built into TE, HP sold the digital panel meter module on it's own as the 3431A/B/C, the power source (AC or DC) differs for each suffix letter.

Neither of my two 3403A have the auto range option, one was DOA and is still waiting to be repaired.

David

[AVGresponding]

Both last year at HAM Radio 2023 and this year at HAM Radio 2024 I came across an old HP True RMS Voltmeter that I purchased.

So I now own a HP3403A (1972 Made in USA) and a HP3403C (1974 Made in USA).

Although these meters are quite old, they have quite good specs and can measure up to 100MHz AC TRMS and can handle a high crest factor of the input signal. The meter can also be used floating by using a special HP 5040-5847 BNC to Banana adapter that presses a small switch below the BNC input to make the input floating from the chassis ground.

The HP3403's have a peculiar range selector and cannot simply be switched down a range (for more digits) or up (for fewer digits), which is common with other meters. This is because the beginning and end of each range is different and does not start from 0.000 (mV or V). This is clearly stated on the card that is stored under the device and can be pulled out.

After connecting a function generator and a splitter, both meters appeared to function properly. Below, an AC signal of 10MHz is offered via a 50Ω terminated generator, splitter and 50Ω terminated meters. No crazy values!

(Attachment Link)

Also tested with an offset of 1V (for AC+DC) and frequencies up to 100MHz and tested the DC mode. All ranges and combinations DC, AC+DC and AC ultimately worked fine. Did not thoroughly verify all deviations, but it all looked very good.

Both meters are beautifully made and quite heavy for their size. The position switches do not switch directly, but control relays that are located in the signal path on the PCBs. The HP3403A has such a beautiful HP display with dots that the HP3403C does not have and is equipped with a normal LED display. Both of my units do not have an auto range because that was an option and it is missing in mine, although the front of the 'C' suggests otherwise.

It's a shame that the plastic on the buttons of many HP devices eventually deteriorates and that the front of my HP3403A (bottom of the photo) is no longer that nice. I have already replaced the 2 much-too-modern knobs with period-correct Japanese ones and it already looks much better.

That HP 3403A though...

[shakalnokturn]

Just for the records, a previously unseen piece of TE turned-up on Leboncoin this evening, (it seems to be a power meter) an Enertec Schlumberger MAP 500 (Multimetre Analyseur de Puissance?)

[Robert763]

aAttended the small local radio rally at Foxton (Cambridge UK) today. Didn't spend much but did come back with a load of bits. Most expensive was a Marconi 6058 7-12.5GHz microwave signal generator for £10. Haven't checked that bit have the guts of a "de-militarised" / "Widlarised" one if I need any bits.
Next was a HP 204D audio oscillator. Tidy, complete and demonstrated working on a 'scope for £5 
A 200W variac with in a box with direct-off-variable switch and manis connectors for £2.
A bag of 2A 40V schottky diodes (VS-21DQ04) >20 sealed (Farnell) packs of 25 for £3. I needed a few for a current project and they run £0.35 each in Qty. 10. This is a lifetime supply.
Then there were freebees:
A couple of new trimtools for miniature multiturn pots
Seveal new USB, HDMI and serial leads from RaspberryPi kits
5 Pye Phillips MX290 VHF transceivers.
16 minature ceramic piston trimmer capacitors (new in sealed packs
4mm male jack to female BNC adaptor
Couple of decent wall wart PSUs complete with vintage 10Mbps routers
Bag of ferrite cores.
I was being picky, there was a lot more free stuff.

EDIT: Forgot some free stuff. Box of brand new Zinwell LNBs, 8 Quad and 4 Single. These sell on ebay for £10-15. A Intel I486sx CPU in a nice plastic anti-static storage box.

[flash2b]

Nice score Robert763 !

I also have a HP 204D and the D is the best one to get since HP have produced a lot of 204's. "Demonstrated working" is a luxury, normally you are told that it works perfectly, finding out that at home it doesn't work at all. For £5 a super bargain.

Hope the Marconi 6058 is also OK, great find (good price as well !) never seen one in person.

Local radio flea markets are also my main source for great finds and good prices. Unfortunately in The Netherlands they are getting scarcer every year. Also the availability of such gear is lower here that in e.g. Germany. Never visited a UK swap meet, maybe I should look for one.

[wkb]

flash2b,

I probably have 2 proper HP knobs for you (in NL :-))
Need to know the  diameter of the axle to check. 

If interested send me a PM.

Wilko

[tggzzz]

Attended the small local radio rally at Foxton (Cambridge UK) today. Didn't spend much but did come back with a load of bits. Most expensive was a Marconi 6058 7-12.5GHz microwave signal generator for £10. Haven't checked that bit have the guts of a "de-militarised" / "Widlarised" one if I need any bits.

I picked up a couple at FRARS last year. No output, until I replaced the tant in the LP filter for the ALC.

I don't suppose you noticed @artag https://www.eevblog.com/forum/contests/uk-rallies-sunday/msg5572609/#msg5572609

[tggzzz]

Local radio flea markets are also my main source for great finds and good prices. Unfortunately in The Netherlands they are getting scarcer every year. Also the availability of such gear is lower here that in e.g. Germany. Never visited a UK swap meet, maybe I should look for one.

Same here As Johnson said of the Giant's Causeway, "worth seeing, but not worth going to see".

I like to combine a hamfest with something else nearby, e.g. TNMoC.

[Robert763]

Attended the small local radio rally at Foxton (Cambridge UK) today. Didn't spend much but did come back with a load of bits. Most expensive was a Marconi 6058 7-12.5GHz microwave signal generator for £10. Haven't checked that bit have the guts of a "de-militarised" / "Widlarised" one if I need any bits.

I picked up a couple at FRARS last year. No output, until I replaced the tant in the LP filter for the ALC.

I don't suppose you noticed @artag https://www.eevblog.com/forum/contests/uk-rallies-sunday/msg5572609/#msg5572609

I saw it but it's a heavy 19" 2U unit for 100W (50V 2A) I have a slightly smaller (depth) and much lighter Delta Electronika 700W PSU that does 35V @ 20A or 70V @ 10A  so don't need it. When I asked the price he said £40 which is cheap. When I declined he asked for an offer.....

[artag]

I don't suppose you noticed @artag https://www.eevblog.com/forum/contests/uk-rallies-sunday/msg5572609/#msg5572609

I saw it but it's a heavy 19" 2U unit for 100W (50V 2A) I have a slightly smaller (depth) and much lighter Delta Electronika 700W PSU that does 35V @ 20A or 70V @ 10A  so don't need it. When I asked the price he said £40 which is cheap. When I declined he asked for an offer.....

Lol  - I don't know Robert but I was at the same stall when he bought the sig gen. He seemed unsure so I waited .. I know someone who was after one a while back and I would have had it if he hadn't. They're offered for a lot more on ebay - more than they're really worth imho.

Looked carefully at the HP PSU as I have a number of 6632B which look very similar. But they're 20V 5A and this was 50V 2A, an occasionally useful alternative. I didn't expect it to sit there long so made an offer to start haggling. Quite surprised to be accepted but very happy. They guy even offered to carry it for me (I walk with a stick am also temporarily in an airboot). Very pleased, though. I didn't get anything else but that was a good buy.