Author Topic: TH2830 vs TH2832  (Read 39107 times)

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Offline KungFuJoshTopic starter

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TH2830 vs TH2832
« on: June 06, 2023, 08:06:22 pm »
Has anybody done an internal comparison between the TH2830 & TH2832?

I'm curious if there's anything different between them besides the firmware.

Thanks,
Josh
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Online Martin72

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Re: TH2830 vs TH2832
« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2023, 10:00:42 pm »
Are you hoping for a 200khz hack ?  ;)
 
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Offline KungFuJoshTopic starter

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Re: TH2830 vs TH2832
« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2023, 10:28:24 pm »
Are you hoping for a 200khz hack ?  ;)

Whaaaaat????!!?!?! How could you possibly imply something so preposterous???

I'm hoping for a 200kHz "improvement" 😉😉
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Offline KungFuJoshTopic starter

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Re: TH2830 vs TH2832
« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2023, 01:54:34 am »
Ooh, I just found this thread: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/a-look-inside-th2832-(tonghui-lcr)/

I guess I need to take my TH2830 apart again and take some photos. 🤔
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Offline KungFuJoshTopic starter

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Re: TH2830 vs TH2832
« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2023, 01:06:48 pm »
Here's the main board. Which at first glance appears to be identical to @luudee 's TH2832. Both also say TH2830 on the board, same version numbers also.
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Offline KungFuJoshTopic starter

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Re: TH2830 vs TH2832
« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2023, 01:18:56 pm »
Two more photos. I still don't see anything different standing out here.
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Offline KungFuJoshTopic starter

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Re: TH2830 vs TH2832
« Reply #6 on: June 09, 2023, 01:45:20 pm »
Here's the back. I still can't find any differences. So far, the only thing I found different at all was the designation for 5A recovery diodes, same thing though otherwise.
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Online Kean

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Re: TH2830 vs TH2832
« Reply #7 on: June 09, 2023, 02:14:06 pm »
Yeah, not seeing any obvious differences in the populated parts, and nothing unpopulated.  Only headers seems to be for JTAG and selecting serial interface type.
 
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Offline KungFuJoshTopic starter

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Re: TH2830 vs TH2832
« Reply #8 on: June 09, 2023, 05:25:14 pm »
Yeah, not seeing any obvious differences in the populated parts, and nothing unpopulated.  Only headers seems to be for JTAG and selecting serial interface type.

Yeah, and I don't see any difference between what is and isn't populated or connected.

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Online Martin72

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Re: TH2830 vs TH2832
« Reply #9 on: June 09, 2023, 09:57:23 pm »
Quote
I still can't find any differences.

what differences do you expect to find ?

Offline KungFuJoshTopic starter

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Re: TH2830 vs TH2832
« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2023, 01:57:30 am »
Quote
I still can't find any differences.

what differences do you expect to find ?

Well, I was hoping to find no differences, and I'm glad it worked out that way. I thought there miiight be something in there separate to support the DC bias voltage source, but it doesn't appear separate.

The only question now is how to get the TH2832 firmware on the TH2830.
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Online Martin72

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Re: TH2830 vs TH2832
« Reply #11 on: June 10, 2023, 07:20:47 pm »
So you think with an update file from the TH2832 you will get 20Hz..200khz in 15025 steps(instead 50Hz..100khz in 34 steps), a dc bias adjustment(instead of none) and the ALC (automatic level control) circuit(insted of none)..
Hard to believe but not impossible.


Offline KungFuJoshTopic starter

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Re: TH2830 vs TH2832
« Reply #12 on: June 10, 2023, 08:40:30 pm »
So you think with an update file from the TH2832 you will get 20Hz..200khz in 15025 steps(instead 50Hz..100khz in 34 steps), a dc bias adjustment(instead of none) and the ALC (automatic level control) circuit(insted of none)..
Hard to believe but not impossible.

Why would that be hard to believe? If we can't find a difference in hardware, there's only one place left...

Also, look at popular modern test gear:

SDM3045X(4.5digits, 66,000 counts) identical hardware to SDM3055X-E (5.5 digits, 240,000 counts); Every modern scope with the "upgrades" and "options" etc.;
AWGs from Siglent, UNI-T, etc. very often identical hardware within the same line, only separated by firmware or options or some other soft limitation.

I'd say it's more believable than not. 😉


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Online Martin72

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Re: TH2830 vs TH2832
« Reply #13 on: June 10, 2023, 10:25:59 pm »
I would be happy for you if the TH2830 was simply a software-limited copy of the TH2832.
If one follows the explanations of the Keysight impedance measurement "book", then with the underlying measurement principle (auto-balancing bridge), there is an invisible limit at about 100khz, from which the whole thing becomes more complicated and thus more expensive.
It may of course be that Tonghui first "developed" the 200khz variant and then by means of the software to be able to offer a cheaper derivative.
It would be a great thing for all TH2830 owners to get a better LCR through a firmware hack, no question.
The device is updateable via the front USB, which is already a possibility.
But since there is no firmware (at least I have not found at tonghui), another possibility would be to copy the contents of the chips.

Offline KungFuJoshTopic starter

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Re: TH2830 vs TH2832
« Reply #14 on: June 11, 2023, 01:44:23 am »
I think you're probably right about them developing one, and then crippling it for the lower model. Oddly enough, both versions say TH2830 on the PCBs, not the other way around.

Hopefully we can find the firmware. The chip copying method would probably be a little trickier.
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Offline tautech

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Re: TH2830 vs TH2832
« Reply #15 on: June 11, 2023, 07:36:03 am »
Calling @tv84
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Online Kean

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Re: TH2830 vs TH2832
« Reply #16 on: June 11, 2023, 11:43:22 am »
In addition to the JTAG connector, it looks like 2 SPI Flash chips, an EEPROM, and a FRAM are there on the PCB between the LPC1788 and the mains power filtering.

I don't really know anything about how this unit works, but would assume that one or more of those chips is storing some device and frequency specific calibration data that might be tricky to create...

Edit: and the Altera CPLD would contain its own programmed logic and additional flash memory contents that may different between model.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2023, 11:46:09 am by Kean »
 
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Offline KungFuJoshTopic starter

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Re: TH2830 vs TH2832
« Reply #17 on: June 12, 2023, 02:14:05 pm »
I'm hoping the "easy" way of just getting a copy of the TH2832 firmware is all we need to do. From a production standpoint, they could do things differently for both models with identical hardware, but that ends up being more work. Especially since both are using the same PCBs and everything else. They would also have to keep track of variations on identically labeled boards, which wouldn't make sense.

The simplest thing to do is supply a different firmware and a sticker for the front of the unit.

You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one. 😉
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Online Martin72

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Re: TH2830 vs TH2832
« Reply #18 on: June 12, 2023, 10:18:24 pm »
Quote
Especially since both are using the same PCBs and everything else.

I will only believe this when we know that they are really identical down to the component level, i.e. the same resistance and capacitance values are present everywhere.
This is not a problem from a production point of view, to equip the pick-and-place machines according to the models.
Ludee would have to make better pictures of his TH2832... ;)
 
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Online Kean

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Re: TH2830 vs TH2832
« Reply #19 on: June 12, 2023, 10:54:49 pm »
If they are populated with different components, then I would expect some kind of production (manual) marking on the PCB to indicate that - like some silkscreen checkboxes.  Or at least some unpopulated components.

Of course some different valued capacitors could also affect oscillator/filtering operations and be hard to notice, but different firmware/gateware/calibration data is more likely.

Is there any further markings in the "text box" with the PCB revision etc hidden under the mains input jack?
Do any of the information screens show firmware revision, and if so what else do they show?
 

Online nctnico

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Re: TH2830 vs TH2832
« Reply #20 on: June 12, 2023, 11:37:01 pm »
If they are populated with different components, then I would expect some kind of production (manual) marking on the PCB to indicate that - like some silkscreen checkboxes.  Or at least some unpopulated components.

Of course some different valued capacitors could also affect oscillator/filtering operations and be hard to notice, but different firmware/gateware/calibration data is more likely.
I agree. The interesting stuff happens in the digital domain where the Altera chip likely does the signal generation & acquisition and the LPC1788 microcontroller uses software to do the heavy lifting. There really is no need for the hardware to be different at all. And maybe the software is the same as well as it is much easier to have a single firmware image for all devices. So in the end the difference may be a component strapping (somewhere around the LPC1788) or a setting in the FRAM / flash.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 
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Offline KungFuJoshTopic starter

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Re: TH2830 vs TH2832
« Reply #21 on: June 13, 2023, 12:20:39 pm »
Firmware version is shown on startup. Both of our meters say ver1.0 but have different copyright dates. I assume the copyright date is reference to the firmware.

Both main boards show "TH2830-MAIN VER1.9..."
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Online nctnico

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Re: TH2830 vs TH2832
« Reply #22 on: June 13, 2023, 12:46:27 pm »
Time to dump the contents of the flashes and (if possible) the LPC1788... Or find firmwage images so these can be compared.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 
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Offline coromonadalix

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Re: TH2830 vs TH2832
« Reply #23 on: June 13, 2023, 12:55:50 pm »
their chinees site  seem to give more files, haven't seen a fw upgrade ???
 
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Offline KungFuJoshTopic starter

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Re: TH2830 vs TH2832
« Reply #24 on: June 13, 2023, 01:11:49 pm »
Time to dump the contents of the flashes and (if possible) the LPC1788... Or find firmwage images so these can be compared.

I don't know how to do that.

I do have a TH2830 hex firmware file. I haven't had any luck finding the TH2832 firmware yet to compare them.
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