Author Topic: The Summary Siglent SDS1202X-E Thread  (Read 13198 times)

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Offline eurofox

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Re: The Summary Siglent SDS1202X-E Thread
« Reply #50 on: August 11, 2017, 12:25:00 am »
Finally it fulfill my need and I just order one together with a SDG2042X  :-+
eurofox
 

Offline pascal_sweden

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Re: The Summary Siglent SDS1202X-E Thread
« Reply #51 on: August 11, 2017, 09:10:06 am »
@ tautech, lets hope they do not use same kind  source what  Keyshit for cheap probes. All things must not copy.

Any update on that Keysight probe BTW? I haven't followed the forum for 2 weeks, and could not see an update about it in the Keysight 1000X thread :)
 

Offline kvd

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Re: The Summary Siglent SDS1202X-E Thread
« Reply #52 on: August 21, 2017, 07:23:36 am »
I just updated to the new firmware (5.1.3.13), coming from 5.1.3.8

Two bugs which I have reported have indeed been fixed (measurements wrong with 10x probe, and FFT/zoom/cursor)  :-+

Other changes I noticed which are not in the release notes are:

- FFT, display mode average, changing the vertical change (db/div) changes the display instantaneously instead of slowly
- FFT, much lower Hz/div (horizontal scale) are now possible
- FFT, more pixels per bin (horizontal scale) are now possible which makes reading easier, with low number of Hz/div
- FFT, display mode average seems faster, but I am not sure about this

 :-+ :-+ :-+ :-+

<edit>
- screendump is now created in a separate PNG folder on the USB stick, not in the root of the stick
« Last Edit: August 21, 2017, 08:33:37 am by kvd »
 

Offline rf-loop

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Re: The Summary Siglent SDS1202X-E Thread
« Reply #53 on: August 21, 2017, 05:36:32 pm »
I just updated to the new firmware (5.1.3.13), coming from 5.1.3.8

Two bugs which I have reported have indeed been fixed (measurements wrong with 10x probe, and FFT/zoom/cursor)  :-+

Other changes I noticed which are not in the release notes are:

- FFT, display mode average, changing the vertical change (db/div) changes the display instantaneously instead of slowly
- FFT, much lower Hz/div (horizontal scale) are now possible
- FFT, more pixels per bin (horizontal scale) are now possible which makes reading easier, with low number of Hz/div
- FFT, display mode average seems faster, but I am not sure about this

 :-+ :-+ :-+ :-+

<edit>
- screendump is now created in a separate PNG folder on the USB stick, not in the root of the stick

Yes, I have seen it many times with Siglent (and not only with Siglent) that changelog is not at all full list of every single  changes.

Let us hope that some day they make some changes for better useability in some details in UI.
One what I hope is zoom windows. Now with zoom display is divided half. THis is not optimum imho. Zoomed window is priority one what user want look when he zoom in. So this need get more vertical room in display.

Then, let us hope that some day user can select if scope do AutoRoll when change from 20ms/div to 50ms/div or slower. There need be least some selection in menu where user can select of autoroll is on or off. This AutoRoll is some times very frustrating.

Then let us hope that user can force scope to full memory acquisition also with fast time bases for some special needs for some rare technical reasons or just as for psychological reasons.
If practice and theory is not equal it tells that used application of theory  is wrong or the theory itself is wrong.
It is much easier to think an apple fall to the ground than to think that the earth and the apple will begin to move toward each other and collide.
 

Offline MrW0lf

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Re: The Summary Siglent SDS1202X-E Thread
« Reply #54 on: August 21, 2017, 05:54:25 pm »
Then let us hope that user can force scope to full memory acquisition also with fast time bases for some special needs for some rare technical reasons or just as for psychological reasons.

This is essentially same as "horizontal zoom" without splitting window. So they should implement either this or that, if implement both - becomes quite confusing for user and puzzle for GUI dude.
I would rather vote for horizontal zoom. It is better than to fiddle with mem setting because you always know what is total time window captured - not so obvious when fiddling with mem setting.
Also with horizontal zoom you can drop/raise sample rate by changing mem on the fly, but retain exact same timebase/zoom state.
Edit: most logical to implement would be some fast option to minimize splitting window to "navigation ribbon" much like one on "full mem ack" scopes. If no room for soft min/max button maybe could be done with some push&rotate at the same time action with knob. Or maybe "double push" much like double click with mouse invokes another command.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2017, 06:32:51 pm by MrW0lf »
 

Offline kvd

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Re: The Summary Siglent SDS1202X-E Thread
« Reply #55 on: August 21, 2017, 08:26:45 pm »
Hi guys, did you know that you can take an FFT spectrum of a one time event? I didn't know that, but see the picture. This is a dampened oscillation captured with a single shot trigger.

I wish that in the recent firmware update Siglent had changed the fact that the data on the FFT spectrum is always in purple, which happens to be the color of channel 2. I would rather see the color of the channel source of the FFT, ie. yellow for 1, purple for 2.

 

Offline rf-loop

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Re: The Summary Siglent SDS1202X-E Thread
« Reply #56 on: August 21, 2017, 11:44:31 pm »
Then let us hope that user can force scope to full memory acquisition also with fast time bases for some special needs for some rare technical reasons or just as for psychological reasons.

This is essentially same as "horizontal zoom" without splitting window. So they should implement either this or that, if implement both - becomes quite confusing for user and puzzle for GUI dude.

Now I drop totally out.

Perhaps I have not explained it like bending from hard wire or what is now missing?

Please tell me what you mean with "either this or that".

And what confusion? T&M instruments are not for monkeys. These need even some education, exept who use these just as toys for playing.

I use nearly every day digitral oscilloscpe what have normal full screen horizontal "zoom" and window zoom. And it is implemented in many many oscilloscopes, in history, now and in future. But as we know Siglent do not this.  Siglent adjust acquisition length when you change t/div. User can not force it for use manually selected longer memory.

How we name these selections is other thing.

But I make example using Siglent SDS1202X-E

Set t/div to 10us/div.
And you have selected memory maximum limit for 1.4M.  (Siglent memory selection is maximum LIMIT)
Now oscilloscope itself select automatically 140k length. (because this length can keep 1GSa/s  14div length) and this is also exactly what is display width.
Ok now you can also window zoom using in zoom window more fast timebase. Or if stop oscilloscope can also do full screen zoom in but not out because there is nothing outside of screen with original time base.

This all is how it works now.

Case B.
But, in some cases, some user may want that even if he use 10us/div (just this single example case) he still want full available memory lenght acquisitions. Force memory to 14M (or some other values how user need).

Also now he can use window zoom for zoom in running scope some details with faster time base than 10us/div.
Just as previously and how it works now.

But now there is outside of screen lot of acquisition length.
When user use this kind of scope and not used window zoom we cans ay that he is looking full screen zoom, he look just small narrow slice from hole capture length. And THIS is in many oscilloscopes. You can see it in Rigol, in old HP, in Keyshit, Owon, Tektronix, and so on.  This IS full window zoom. Whern they change time base with enough long memory what happend. Only window is more and more narrow part of whole length. Acquisition itself stay same.
But, why do not implement auto memory, memory low limit, memory minimum limit.

Also it can implement so that even with window zoom in case B there can do some extra and make possible to zoom out from upper screen original time base setting. In lower zoom window is then possible to zoom in and out up to full memory length. Just so that tool can be more flexible for different needs and also in some cases it may speed up working with scope in live working situation where time is money.

Think scope what have 1k memory and 1GSa/s. Display 10 div. Time base set for 1ns/div.
What is display zoom factor to this whole length. THis is full window zoom working principle. Used in many scopes in history, now and future. In Siglent case automemory reject memory to 10 data points. Ok this is enough. Also other scope display 10 dayta points long part when it run. Similar.  But this other scope show 100X full window zoom. Didsplay show 1% length when it is running. Do you now realize what is full window zoom. This can add to Siglent and user can select this mode if he really need it, of not then automemory.
In some cases we want limit memory length. Example for fast sequence acq. Or for make possible to keep more trigged events in history buffer limiited memory.

Other thing is how to arrange UI and name things so that user do not drop to confused. If user do not understand how to use tools then he can buy more simple machines.


If practice and theory is not equal it tells that used application of theory  is wrong or the theory itself is wrong.
It is much easier to think an apple fall to the ground than to think that the earth and the apple will begin to move toward each other and collide.
 

Offline rf-loop

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Re: The Summary Siglent SDS1202X-E Thread
« Reply #57 on: August 21, 2017, 11:52:33 pm »
Hi guys, did you know that you can take an FFT spectrum of a one time event? I didn't know that, but see the picture. This is a dampened oscillation captured with a single shot trigger.

I wish that in the recent firmware update Siglent had changed the fact that the data on the FFT spectrum is always in purple, which happens to be the color of channel 2. I would rather see the color of the channel source of the FFT, ie. yellow for 1, purple for 2.

As told many times, FFT and other math  and measurements can use for every single acquisition. Example if have dome sequence acquistion every segment can use for FFT etc. Also if just stop scope and look history, same, you can use FFT etc for every sigle capture you find there.  Also you can play this history backward or forward with selected speed and use FFT analyze, enough slow speed in playback and it can do FFT math for every segment.

Let us hope that some day we get some things for select some things colors what are now not optimal. Also need take care about peoples who have some problems with eyes including color detection.
If practice and theory is not equal it tells that used application of theory  is wrong or the theory itself is wrong.
It is much easier to think an apple fall to the ground than to think that the earth and the apple will begin to move toward each other and collide.
 

Offline MrW0lf

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Re: The Summary Siglent SDS1202X-E Thread
« Reply #58 on: August 22, 2017, 12:03:29 am »
User can not force it for use manually selected longer memory.
How we name these selections is other thing.

And why you should select longer capture with longer memory, while keeping wrong timebase? Want longer capture spec longer capture length in time (or in memory but then timebase should change!) After all scopes are mostly for time domain analysis.
What Siglent is missing is non-split screen (horizontal) zoom, thats all. Concept of steering capture length with some secondary entity (memory length), while keeping timebase constant is perhaps convention and you are used to it but if you look at bigger picture it is not optimal. So Siglent did it right and is just missing small feature of full-screen zoom.
In fact you were defending "Siglent way" not long time ago. No need to flap like leaf in wind. Stick to you guns no need get all soft here.
And if its not clear yes its same thing technically (common vs Siglent way) but there is difference how you name it or build GUI on top of it.

Edit: I give you example from AD2 GUI that is made by people who clearly took logic classes in school:
Control is called "Time". Three fields are tied together: Base, Samples, Rate.
Suppose set Samples to 2k and Base to 1ms. Then it will pick suitable Rate of 2MSa/s. If pick another Rate it will pick suitable Base. At all times Base = Samples * Rate and represented in GUI as such. As option Base can be represented as conventional time/div also.
With "conventional" scope it is of course same internally but represented in GUI ass-inside-out with Base != Samples * Rate in case of fiddling with mem.




« Last Edit: August 22, 2017, 12:37:48 am by MrW0lf »
 

Offline rf-loop

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Re: The Summary Siglent SDS1202X-E Thread
« Reply #59 on: August 22, 2017, 01:12:00 am »
User can not force it for use manually selected longer memory.
How we name these selections is other thing.

And why you should select longer capture with longer memory, while keeping wrong timebase? Want longer capture spec longer capture length in time (or in memory but then timebase should change!) After all scopes are mostly for time domain analysis.
What Siglent is missing is non-split screen (horizontal) zoom, thats all. Concept of steering capture length with some secondary entity (memory length), while keeping timebase constant is perhaps convention and you are used to it but if you look at bigger picture it is not optimal. So Siglent did it right and is just missing small feature of full-screen zoom.
In fact you were defending "Siglent way" not long time ago. No need to flap like leaf in wind. Stick to you guns no need get all soft here.
And if its not clear yes its same thing technically (common vs Siglent way) but there is difference how you name it or build GUI on top of it.

Edit: I give you example from AD2 GUI that is made by people who clearly took logic classes in school:
Control is called "Time". Three fields are tied together: Base, Samples, Rate.
Suppose set Samples to 2k and Base to 1ms. Then it will pick suitable Rate of 2MSa/s. If pick another Rate it will pick suitable Base. At all times Base = Samples * Rate and represented in GUI as such. As option Base can be represented as conventional time/div also.
With "conventional" scope it is of course same internally but represented in GUI ass-inside-out with Base != Samples * Rate in case of fiddling with mem.



All what is there already done and implemented is just Siglent way and it is ok and of course this need not change.
But this is good example what happend when try explain fast and with quite poor language with tiny simplified dictinary.
So I give hands up and not loose time for try explain it here what advantages can ADD there, not change what is there now. Exept bit grinding and finishing some UI things for better ergonomy and usability. 

Equipments need develop and make better and better and it is endless process. Nothing is fully ready, never. This is what I hope  and I believe this is also what Siglent want. Period.

There is now automemory with user selected maximum limit.
There can add also user selected FIXED memory length.

But then, when there is Fixed memory length there can add one extra feature to windowed zoom but for avoid misunderstoodings I leave this out from this. Too many things at once looks like produce misunderstoodings. Is is so that human brain is just serial prosessing unit and can not run many threads parallel.
If practice and theory is not equal it tells that used application of theory  is wrong or the theory itself is wrong.
It is much easier to think an apple fall to the ground than to think that the earth and the apple will begin to move toward each other and collide.
 

Offline MrW0lf

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Re: The Summary Siglent SDS1202X-E Thread
« Reply #60 on: August 22, 2017, 09:55:54 am »
Think scope what have 1k memory and 1GSa/s. Display 10 div. Time base set for 1ns/div.
What is display zoom factor to this whole length. THis is full window zoom working principle. Used in many scopes in history, now and future. In Siglent case automemory reject memory to 10 data points. Ok this is enough. Also other scope display 10 dayta points long part when it run. Similar.  But this other scope show 100X full window zoom. Didsplay show 1% length when it is running. Do you now realize what is full window zoom. This can add to Siglent and user can select this mode if he really need it, of not then automemory.
In some cases we want limit memory length. Example for fast sequence acq. Or for make possible to keep more trigged events in history buffer limiited memory.

Use case described is probably pictured below. 1ns/ is achieved by zoom into 1us record. Important thing here is that total record length in time is governed by timebase control, not by memory setting. It would be improvement if timebase control could [optionally] display total length (1us) like on AD2, then simple Jack does not need to multiply by 10.



On some other scope similar would be achieved if set main timebase to 1ns/ and mem to same 1k, not zoom at all. However total record length in time nowhere written on screen and less trivial to calculate than multiply by number of divs, or just read number, like with AD2.

Initially it seemed you want Siglent to implement "other scope" case, which is IMHO step back. Step forward would be leaving main timebase to govern record length (s) and think zoom logic thru.






« Last Edit: August 22, 2017, 10:19:08 am by MrW0lf »
 

Offline tautech

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Offline tautech

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Re: The Summary Siglent SDS1202X-E Thread
« Reply #62 on: September 04, 2017, 03:44:37 pm »
Recent -3dB point check using freshly acquired HP 500 MHz sig gen.

10 mV source signal, BNC connection through Tek 1:1 50 ohm BNC inline feedthrough.
Slight discrepancy in frequency measurements but despite this indicates the -3dB point is ~240 MHz.
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Offline MrW0lf

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Re: The Summary Siglent SDS1202X-E Thread
« Reply #63 on: September 07, 2017, 10:27:27 pm »
 

Online Fungus

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Re: The Summary Siglent SDS1202X-E Thread
« Reply #64 on: September 07, 2017, 10:31:22 pm »


 :-DD

Oh, you foreigners.
 
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Online egonotto

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Re: The Summary Siglent SDS1202X-E Thread
« Reply #65 on: September 08, 2017, 10:47:09 am »
Hello,

the man in the video speaks a very understandable English :)

He has other very interesting videos.

Best regards

egonotto

 

Offline Gandalf_Sr

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Re: The Summary Siglent SDS1202X-E Thread
« Reply #66 on: September 08, 2017, 06:25:56 pm »
So, PLEASE put us out of our misery, was it Top or Flop?  I listened to the video and the only words I understood were 'so' and 'wunderbar'
 

Offline Ghislain

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Re: The Summary Siglent SDS1202X-E Thread
« Reply #67 on: September 22, 2017, 11:50:16 pm »
He did not actually mention the word 'top' as such but all of his comments were very positive  :-+
 

Offline tautech

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Re: The Summary Siglent SDS1202X-E Thread
« Reply #68 on: October 12, 2017, 07:09:20 am »
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Offline tautech

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Re: The Summary Siglent SDS1202X-E Thread
« Reply #69 on: November 21, 2017, 07:12:55 pm »
A zero poster PM'ed me for some screenshots of FFT in the FM band so I've conjured these together from a HP sig gen externally modulated at 20 KHz at 105 MHz.
Timebase settings influence the settings available in/for FFT mode however with some fiddling we are able to display the fundamental harmonics and sidebands.





Hope he finds these useful.
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Offline tautech

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Re: The Summary Siglent SDS1202X-E Thread
« Reply #70 on: February 07, 2018, 08:49:01 pm »
New firmware for the SDS1202X-E

Version: v5.1.3.17R1
http://siglenteu.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=4072&tid=15
5.9 Mb

Changelog
Fixed bug: Sometimes Auto setup fails on probe compensation output
1.Fixed bug: Corrected under-compensation from probe compensation waveform on 100 mV/div ranges
2.Fixed bug: FFT horizontal frequency div is wrong. The wrong sequence is shown: 5 Hz, 2 Hz, 1 Hz, 2 Hz, 5 Hz, 100 mHz, 200 mHz
3.Optimized translation for German and English menus and pop-up messages
4.Fixed bug: The scope does not save the‘limit range’of slope trigger while powered off
5.Fixed bug: The waveform disappears from the Zoom window at the edge of screen with the timebase set to500ns/div.
6.Fixed bug: There is an issue with the Y cursor offset/scaling, probe with x10 setting. The Y1/Y2 cursor values don’t match the Y voltage division/offset of the selected input channel
7.Fixed bug: Track cursor source set to track the waveform in the zoom window, but it tracks main window
« Last Edit: February 07, 2018, 09:11:11 pm by tautech »
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Offline evgen.05

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Re: The Summary Siglent SDS1202X-E Thread
« Reply #71 on: February 07, 2018, 09:03:26 pm »
Hello! After update freq.counter works very strange. It depends from b/w. On 20M - works fine, but on full b/w - shows some shit.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2018, 09:10:56 pm by evgen.05 »
 

Offline tautech

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Re: The Summary Siglent SDS1202X-E Thread
« Reply #72 on: February 07, 2018, 09:12:50 pm »
Hello! After update freq.counter works very strange. It depends from b/w. On 20M - works fine, but on full b/w - shows some shit.
Did you perform the Self Cal after updating ?
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Offline evgen.05

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Re: The Summary Siglent SDS1202X-E Thread
« Reply #73 on: February 07, 2018, 09:13:42 pm »
Hello! After update freq.counter works very strange. It depends from b/w. On 20M - works fine, but on full b/w - shows some shit.
Did you perform the Self Cal after updating ?
ofcource

Well, after freeze and hard reboot(put off cable from main) freq.counter works fine too. Very strange.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2018, 10:16:28 pm by evgen.05 »
 
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Offline evgen.05

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Re: The Summary Siglent SDS1202X-E Thread
« Reply #74 on: February 08, 2018, 05:26:01 pm »
Hello! Who knows what is new option "Utility->page4->Reference Position-> Vertical fixed position and Horisontal fixed delay? Before update these options were absent. Tried them on and off - nothing happened
 


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