Author Topic: The attempt of a Micsig (A/S)TO11xx general purpose thread ... :-)  (Read 17501 times)

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Online Fungus

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Re: The attempt of a Micsig (A/S)TO11xx general purpose thread ... :-)
« Reply #50 on: August 10, 2021, 03:00:59 am »
Regarding the cost of hardware development ? I have no experience of this but your comments regarding firmware/software development further support the statements I made about a manufacturer needing to balance the cost of ongoing development against increased sales and resultant profit  :)

None of my suggestions were for radical changes or months of work.

I know there's people here who didn't buy Micsigs because of (for example) no statistics mode. Statistics mode should be a few days work at most, just keep a running total and display that instead of the current value.

It's a really small investment compared to all the work that's already been done on the firmware, it generates word of mouth advertising, it keeps the existing product line alive for longer.

 

Offline PfriemlerTopic starter

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Re: The attempt of a Micsig (A/S)TO11xx general purpose thread ... :-)
« Reply #51 on: August 10, 2021, 06:44:49 pm »
None of my suggestions were for radical changes or months of work.
That's my point of view, too.

Why Migsig_Support does not comment?
once you do it right, it works :-)
 

Online Fungus

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Re: The attempt of a Micsig (A/S)TO11xx general purpose thread ... :-)
« Reply #52 on: August 11, 2021, 09:09:05 am »
None of my suggestions were for radical changes or months of work.
That's my point of view, too.

And as I said: With those changes I really believe this could be the best oscilloscope under $1000.
 

Offline shakalnokturn

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Re: The attempt of a Micsig (A/S)TO11xx general purpose thread ... :-)
« Reply #53 on: August 12, 2021, 06:20:13 pm »
I'm sure they're reading and taking note.
Who else gives the serial decode options for free on such a young product? (rigLOL maybe :-DD)
I much doubt they'll offer all the wanted extras on a firmware update for these models but wouldn't be surprised if they implemented some of them on the newer ones.
On the whole they're a great product for newish company, some things could be improved on the GUI, still it's quite intuitive and bugless.
I just wish that they'd get their firmware history and updates sorted (a right f'ing mess!) and return the standby option they removed.
 

Offline PfriemlerTopic starter

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Re: The attempt of a Micsig (A/S)TO11xx general purpose thread ... :-)
« Reply #54 on: August 16, 2021, 06:10:44 am »
I just wish that they' ... return the standby option they removed.
They had a standby option? It's on my wishlist, too, see #8
once you do it right, it works :-)
 

Offline shakalnokturn

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Re: The attempt of a Micsig (A/S)TO11xx general purpose thread ... :-)
« Reply #55 on: September 02, 2021, 07:49:40 am »
I have to grumble a little about the stand: My fingers aren't huge but the LHS recess to unclip the stand just isn't convenient. Overall stand design could be better although it does serve its purpose well enough.
 
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Online voltsandjolts

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Re: The attempt of a Micsig (A/S)TO11xx general purpose thread ... :-)
« Reply #56 on: September 02, 2021, 09:08:46 am »
None of my suggestions were for radical changes or months of work.

FWIW I liked your suggestions, would be nice improvements and as you say nothing radical.
 

Offline rvalente

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Re: The attempt of a Micsig (A/S)TO11xx general purpose thread ... :-)
« Reply #57 on: November 11, 2021, 01:03:46 pm »
#1 - Does anyone know how many FFT points the 1104C and 1104E have? I can't find this anywhere
#2 - Can it operate without battery? This battery will die in a few years.
 

Offline PfriemlerTopic starter

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Re: The attempt of a Micsig (A/S)TO11xx general purpose thread ... :-)
« Reply #58 on: November 11, 2021, 01:51:01 pm »
#1 oops, indeed. Datasheet has no info. Just found https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/micsig-to1104-(similar-to-rigol-1104z)/msg1196293/#msg1196293: 43k for the TO1104. STO is quite similar. C and E differs rather in in memory depth and speed, not in software.
#2 I got a STO1104C with a bad battery, did not charge, did not start. With power supply, everything works fine. I do not think a bad battery will cause serious problems.
once you do it right, it works :-)
 

Online Fungus

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Re: The attempt of a Micsig (A/S)TO11xx general purpose thread ... :-)
« Reply #59 on: November 11, 2021, 07:09:30 pm »
#2 - Can it operate without battery? This battery will die in a few years.

Yes. The battery is really an optional extra, but usually included if you buy one outside China.

I'm sure Micsig will send you one directly if you ask them. They respond to their support email really quickly.

I ordered another screen protector from them and there was a delay so they sent me two to make up for it.

« Last Edit: November 11, 2021, 07:38:30 pm by Fungus »
 

Offline rvalente

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Re: The attempt of a Micsig (A/S)TO11xx general purpose thread ... :-)
« Reply #60 on: November 12, 2021, 12:36:51 pm »
True, they have good email support, I've been exchanging some with them.

@Pfriemler already a dead battery? Did you use it a LOT, did not use at all? Is this battery that old to already to be gone?
 

Online Fraser

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Re: The attempt of a Micsig (A/S)TO11xx general purpose thread ... :-)
« Reply #61 on: November 12, 2021, 12:55:34 pm »
The battery may have been allowed to discharge below its safety cut off voltage that effectively isolates the battery from the scope.
In some cases it is possible to carefully apply power to the battery cell string directly (not via the battery management PCB) to slowly bring the cells above the safety cutoff threshold and the battery management will enable the Power MOSFETS again to reconnect the battery to the scope. There are some cautions associated with such action though.

1. An isolated battery is isolated for a reason, either over discharge or a fault in the cell string.
2. Re-enabling an isolated cell string can ‘re-activate’ cells that have been damaged by over discharge and risks cell swelling or failure.
3. Only a voltage and current controlled power supply should be applied directly to the cells and only at a sensible current for long enough to bring each cell up to at least 3.4V. Then use the scopes charging circuit to complete the charge cycle.
4. An isolated battery is isolated for a reason …. This is worth repeating ! That said, many Li-Ion/Poly batteries may be brought back to life without safety consequences but some capacity may be lost.
5. Some batteries cannot be brought back from over discharge as cells have degraded and the battery management IC detects this and permanently locks out the battery rendering it scrap.

Fraser
« Last Edit: November 16, 2021, 12:20:59 pm by Fraser »
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Offline Micsig_support

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Re: The attempt of a Micsig (A/S)TO11xx general purpose thread ... :-)
« Reply #62 on: November 16, 2021, 08:46:58 am »
#1 - Does anyone know how many FFT points the 1104C and 1104E have? I can't find this anywhere
#2 - Can it operate without battery? This battery will die in a few years.



above is the one video for FFT for your FYI.

if the battery die, pls contact your near local distributor. now, we have some stocks in different countries. do not be worry.
JL
 

Offline rvalente

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Re: The attempt of a Micsig (A/S)TO11xx general purpose thread ... :-)
« Reply #63 on: November 16, 2021, 12:03:11 pm »
#1 - Does anyone know how many FFT points the 1104C and 1104E have? I can't find this anywhere
#2 - Can it operate without battery? This battery will die in a few years.



above is the one video for FFT for your FYI.

if the battery die, pls contact your near local distributor. now, we have some stocks in different countries. do not be worry.


I appreciate the video but, could you please officially confirm:

#1 - Number of FFT points
#2 - Behavior with a dead battery
 

Offline nctnico

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Re: The attempt of a Micsig (A/S)TO11xx general purpose thread ... :-)
« Reply #64 on: November 16, 2021, 12:49:53 pm »
#1 - Does anyone know how many FFT points the 1104C and 1104E have? I can't find this anywhere
#2 - Can it operate without battery? This battery will die in a few years.
Why do you say the battery dies in a few years? If you don't drain the batteries empty and store the oscilloscope with some charge in it, I see no reason why the batteries won't last at least a decade. Li-ion is infinitely better compared to NiCd or NimH in that respect. I have a TO1104 for 4 years now and the battery is still fine.

And like others have pointed out: the battery is an option so the oscilloscope can also work without it.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2021, 12:51:51 pm by nctnico »
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 
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Offline rvalente

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Re: The attempt of a Micsig (A/S)TO11xx general purpose thread ... :-)
« Reply #65 on: November 16, 2021, 12:55:55 pm »
I guess a few a us have bought a computer/camera/test equipment and after a few years you jus can not find the battery or the price is prohibitive.

So I'd like to better understand the scope behavior without battery and also, how good is the FFT
 

Online Fungus

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Re: The attempt of a Micsig (A/S)TO11xx general purpose thread ... :-)
« Reply #66 on: November 16, 2021, 02:15:55 pm »
So I'd like to better understand the scope behavior without battery

Like I sad. Batteries are optional, you can use it perfectly without one.

If you're not using the battery very often you can charge it to 50% and store it. It will last for ages like that.


 

Offline PfriemlerTopic starter

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Re: The attempt of a Micsig (A/S)TO11xx general purpose thread ... :-)
« Reply #67 on: November 17, 2021, 09:39:30 pm »
If you're not using the battery very often you can charge it to 50% and store it. It will last for ages like that.
If there's any kind of battery management system inside (like all old-fashioned notebook batterys), consider a charge up to 70 or 80% (but not more!) an check the battery's level once a year, recharge if <20%. Never store a 100% charged battery for a long time.
Fun fact: DJI's copter batterys do discharge themselves down to 80% after some days (adjustable, but max 10) to prevent damages caused by fully charged storage...
once you do it right, it works :-)
 

Offline MustardMan

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Re: The attempt of a Micsig (A/S)TO11xx general purpose thread ... :-)
« Reply #68 on: December 18, 2021, 08:45:15 pm »
I've been using an STO1104 on a daily basis for many months. I use it in almost all situations in preference to a *significantly* more expensive Tektronix scope (in fact I only use the Tek if I need its higher bandwidth).

I've found it mostly intuitive to use, but some things catch me out repeatedly, and there are some things it doesn't do but should. All of these are firmware related:

1) Operating the cursor knobs but having to push "shift" (or note that "shift" is active) is a REAL pain. If the cursors are active, the default (non-shifted) knob operation should be to move the cursors! At present the functionality seems reversed between 'shift' and 'non-shift'. In fact the default knob actions for "X" is to select the active wave (not really a common thing to do, and I do that be pressing the channel buttons anyway), and for "Y" it is nothing!

2) The measurement calculations for "CRMS" and "Cmean" calculate for the first cycle of a repetitive waveform. It would be far more useful if "CRMS" and "Cmean" referred to the cursors, so I could measure the part of a complex waveform I was interested in, excluding the rest. I've attached a screenshot - note the "Cmean" shows blank as there is not a full waveform on screen (the duty cycle of the waveform shown is about 0.2%, so zooming the whole wave destroys any visibility of what I'm interested in, and calculating the mean of the full waveform is not what I want anyway).

3) It would be useful to be able to 'rename' the channels. For example, instead of "1" and "2", be able to enter some text such as "TX" or "Vgs" instead.

4) The measurement text always appears at a fixed location on the screen. Mostly the location is fine, but sometimes it would be great if I could touch at that location and drag the text block to somewhere more convenient.

Overall I find the scope very easy to use and love how I can use the knobs/buttons or touch-screen to do things!

Cheers, MM.

 

Offline PfriemlerTopic starter

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Re: The attempt of a Micsig (A/S)TO11xx general purpose thread ... :-)
« Reply #69 on: December 20, 2021, 09:12:03 pm »
1) Operating the cursor knobs but having to push "shift" (or note that "shift" is active) is a REAL pain. If the cursors are active, the default (non-shifted) knob operation should be to move the cursors! ...

That's on my wish list, too. In addition: many other knob operations switch SHIFT off and it has to be reactivated to move the cursors.

@MicSig: There are many useful suggestions in this thread.
Why are still none of them implemented in a functional upgrade?
once you do it right, it works :-)
 

Online Fungus

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Re: The attempt of a Micsig (A/S)TO11xx general purpose thread ... :-)
« Reply #70 on: December 21, 2021, 11:59:07 am »
@MicSig: There are many useful suggestions in this thread.
Why are still none of them implemented in a functional upgrade?

Still no answer to that.

(Even if the answer is "We don't add features to existing devices" it would still be nice to know - what's the policy?)
 

Online Fraser

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Re: The attempt of a Micsig (A/S)TO11xx general purpose thread ... :-)
« Reply #71 on: December 21, 2021, 03:02:46 pm »
It would appear that my post of July 21 was more accurate than some in this thread wanted to believe of MICSIG  ;)

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Offline MustardMan

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Re: The attempt of a Micsig (A/S)TO11xx general purpose thread ... :-)
« Reply #72 on: December 22, 2021, 11:04:15 pm »
Although the thread was not started by MicSig, they have made an appearance every now and again. Perhaps MicSig don't consider it (this thread) either big enough or significantly representative enough of their user base?

Some suggested changes (eg: the shift cursor issue) would be trivial to alter, whereas others quite a bit harder. The shift cursor changes are so annoying I would make the changes myself if I had access to the source code... hoping... OK - being realistic, not gonna happen...  :)

MM
« Last Edit: January 07, 2022, 03:31:19 am by MustardMan »
 

Offline skander36

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Re: The attempt of a Micsig (A/S)TO11xx general purpose thread ... :-)
« Reply #73 on: March 12, 2022, 08:13:36 am »
Hi folks, maybe I'm missing something but I can't find how to fine adjust the scale.
Pushing scale button does nothing, and fine virtual buttons on the bottom of the screen only adjust vertical position.
Also in FFT menu I can't find how to set center, start, stop.
Is there anything that I miss or there are other newer versions with some improvements?
My version is 5.1.0.108. I don't have system update app. Model STO 1152C.

Thank you!


 

Offline shakalnokturn

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Re: The attempt of a Micsig (A/S)TO11xx general purpose thread ... :-)
« Reply #74 on: April 02, 2022, 12:33:43 am »
TO1104
7.13.1.373
2017-02-10 15:40

Found a "feature" I don't like:
When persistance is enabled cursor measurements can't be made.
 


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