EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
Products => Test Equipment => Topic started by: ivan747 on January 02, 2015, 05:33:29 pm
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I have noticed there is a lot of info and research on the SDG1000 series generators, but it is spread all over the forum, so it's hard to find. I'm starting this threads in hopes that people can find this information easily. If you make a finding in your SDG1000 series generator, give us a heads up. Sometimes information is buried on threads not directly related to the instrument, on those cases we will link the particular post that mentions the instrument. In cases where a forum thread or other resource has, for example, a review and a finding, there will be a reference to the thread or resource on each category.
Anyone can contribute, contributions are asked and welcome. You can also post small findings here, if you happen to find something big and important (like a hack), definitely tell us about it and give us a link so that can post that link for everyone to see your findings.
Let's get started:
SDG1000 series
Members of the series:
Siglent: SDG1005, SDG1010, SDG1020, SDG1025, SDG1050. The last 2 digits indicate the max. sine wave bandwidth in MHz.
The SDG1005 and 1010 appear to have slightly different hardware, this is known by the lack of a fan in them, except for the early versions.
See here: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/function-generator-comparison-help-please/msg272666/#msg272666 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/function-generator-comparison-help-please/msg272666/#msg272666)
LeCroy: WaveStation 2012, WaveStation 2022, WaveStation 2052. These are 10, 25 and 50MHz respectively.
Specs
Official datasheet http://www.siglent.com/2014EnglishWebsite/Documents/Datasheet/SDG1000_DataSheet_DS02010-E07A.pdf (http://www.siglent.com/2014EnglishWebsite/Documents/Datasheet/SDG1000_DataSheet_DS02010-E07A.pdf)
Specs known but not officially listed
External modulation input sampling rate: 500ksps
External modulation input filtering: none, there is no Nyquist frequency filter, aliasing can occur. Feeding in a 250kHz sine wave, from Ch.2 (which is in phase) results in 2 discrete modulation values. In this condition, AM modulation looks like ASK modulation on a scope, and FM into FSK modulation on a spectrum analyzer.
Frequency response bode plots for the SDG1025 (also read the posts that follow): https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-sdg1000-and-sdg800-thread/msg612806/#msg612806 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-sdg1000-and-sdg800-thread/msg612806/#msg612806)
Firmware
Reportedly, Siglent's firmware versions always end in an odd number. LeCroy's firmware versions end in an even number. It is known that the LeCroy firmware can be uploaded to a Siglent unit (will void your warranty), and it gives you a more pleasing visual theme, swapped channels (Ch1 willl be the left BNC instead of the right and vice versa) and removes the built in counter. It will also enable you to work with LeCroy's LabVIEW drivers without editing header files, and possibly other PC connectivity things detailed in LeCroy's programming manual. More details on that on reply #1 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-sdg1000-and-sdg800-thread/msg579183/#msg579183)
But please do not try until you read the related thread. Obviously, this voids your warranty.
Also, please note that as of April 2015, Siglent has released LabVIEW drivers. Details down below.
*Official Siglent firmware download center: http://siglenteu.com/gjjrj.aspx?id=15 (http://siglenteu.com/gjjrj.aspx?id=15)
*LeCroy's download center (WaveStation 2000 series, NOT 3000): http://teledynelecroy.com/support/softwaredownload/documents.aspx?sc=24 (http://teledynelecroy.com/support/softwaredownload/documents.aspx?sc=24)
*Put LeCroy's firmware in a Siglent thread: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1000-(aka-lecroy-wavestation)-firmware-updates/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1000-(aka-lecroy-wavestation)-firmware-updates/)
Manuals
*User manual: http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Documents/UserManual/SDG1000_UserManual_UM02010-E07B.pdf (http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Documents/UserManual/SDG1000_UserManual_UM02010-E07B.pdf)
*Service manual: http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Documents/service_manual/SDG1000_ServiceManual_SM02010-E01B.pdf (http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Documents/service_manual/SDG1000_ServiceManual_SM02010-E01B.pdf)
*Programming manual: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-sdg1000-and-sdg800-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=127867 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-sdg1000-and-sdg800-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=127867)
*LeCroy's user manual (describes in MUCH more details the PC connectivity): http://cdn.teledynelecroy.com/files/manuals/wavestation_om-e.pdf (http://cdn.teledynelecroy.com/files/manuals/wavestation_om-e.pdf)
*LeCroy's programming manual: http://cdn.teledynelecroy.com/files/manuals/wsta_scpi_manual_reva.pdf (http://cdn.teledynelecroy.com/files/manuals/wsta_scpi_manual_reva.pdf)
PC Software
Official EasyWave software: http://siglenteu.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=867&tid=14 (http://siglenteu.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=867&tid=14)
*Lecroy's software is exactly the same.
*Siglent's LabVIEW drivers: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/msg656874/#msg656874 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/msg656874/#msg656874)
Authorized distribuitors (or anyone who offers a warranty)
Siglent offers a 3 year factory warranty, sellers listed provide this warranty. If they offer a different warranty, that will be pointed out.
*Forum member tautech, New Zealand: http://www.tautech.co.nz/ (http://www.tautech.co.nz/)
*Forum member rf-loop,Finland: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/profile/?u=413 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/profile/?u=413) He offers this warranty (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-sdg1000-and-sdg800-thread/msg589480/#msg589480) as a complement.
Reviews
*Video review by Connor Wolf: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTf7ac670O8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTf7ac670O8)
*Some Amazon reviews: http://www.amazon.co.uk/product-reviews/B00EJ9BKO8 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/product-reviews/B00EJ9BKO8)
*Some TEquipment reviews: http://www.tequipment.net/Siglent/SDG1025/Function-Generator/?readReview=75c58#tab-reviews (http://www.tequipment.net/Siglent/SDG1025/Function-Generator/?readReview=75c58#tab-reviews)
*My humble opinion: http://www.tequipment.net/Siglent/SDG1010/Fully-usable-AWG-at-a-very-low-price/c629c3f1890b4/ (http://www.tequipment.net/Siglent/SDG1010/Fully-usable-AWG-at-a-very-low-price/c629c3f1890b4/)
Teardowns
*SDG1010 photo teardown https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/siglent-sdg1010-function-generator-teardown/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/siglent-sdg1010-function-generator-teardown/)
*Another teardown, with text description: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1025-arbitraryfunction-generator-under-some-tests/msg129024/#msg129024 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1025-arbitraryfunction-generator-under-some-tests/msg129024/#msg129024)
*Video teardown: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3h5j2umoZBA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3h5j2umoZBA)
*Teardown of an early SDG1020 (2012) with fan: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1020-waveform-generator-teardown-pics/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1020-waveform-generator-teardown-pics/)
Issues (unsolved) Potentially outdated!!!
*(2-jan-2015) USB driver is partially broken in Windows 8 by the lack of driver signature. A workaround is the following: The SDG1000 series have 2 USB modes. One is a device-specific protocol called USBRAW by the user interface. This mode requires proprietary drivers to work. Unfortunately, these drivers are not signed despite the manual sugesting they are, so Windows 8 will refuse to install or work with them under normal circumstances. There are two workaroundsL temporaly disable driver signature enforcement in Windows 8, which is re-enabled after a restart or use the second USB mode. This second mode, USBTMC is similar to how HID devices, such as USB mice, joysticks and keyboards work. It requires no device-specific drivers. Just like HID, Windows comes with a general TMC driver, that it can use to communicate with the SDG1000. The included software works with USBTMC.
*The PC software is lacking waveform clipping, amplitude normalization, compression etc: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/looking-for-reasonable-dds-function-gererator-need-opinions-please/msg577154/#msg577154 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/looking-for-reasonable-dds-function-gererator-need-opinions-please/msg577154/#msg577154)
*There is no readouts in dBm, you can input values in dBm, but these get converted to volts and displayed as volts, not as dBm. A workaround is to print a table with volts and dBm conversions.
Issues (solved)
*SQUARE WAVE GLITCH Solved only for newer units. (in brief, the work-aroundis to use the pulse function when working at low frequencies, either that or a hardware mod): https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1020-arbitrary-fungen-first-impressions-and-a-possible-signal-glitch/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1020-arbitrary-fungen-first-impressions-and-a-possible-signal-glitch/)
As far as I am aware, the SDG800 does not have this problem, thanks to the EasyPulse technology.
*Sometimes your firmware will come in Chinese, this is how you change it to english: press utility button. Press 5th blue button once. Press 2nd blue button three times.
*TFT contrast issue, solved in subsequent firmware upggrade (download the latest firmware): https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/siglent-sdg1010-function-generator-teardown/msg140663/#msg140663 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/siglent-sdg1010-function-generator-teardown/msg140663/#msg140663)
*TFT contrast issue, detailed: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1025-arbitraryfunction-generator-under-some-tests/msg126941/#msg126941 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1025-arbitraryfunction-generator-under-some-tests/msg126941/#msg126941)
Findings
*Sine wave purity and modulation tests using spectrum analyzer: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1025-arbitraryfunction-generator-under-some-tests/msg126941/#msg126941 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1025-arbitraryfunction-generator-under-some-tests/msg126941/#msg126941)
*Jitter tests (pulse mode): https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1025-arbitraryfunction-generator-under-some-tests/msg127312/#msg127312 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1025-arbitraryfunction-generator-under-some-tests/msg127312/#msg127312)
*Same as previous 2, by the same poster, but with more pictures: http://siglent.freeforums.org/tests-sdg1000-function-arbitrary-waveform-generator-t5.html (http://siglent.freeforums.org/tests-sdg1000-function-arbitrary-waveform-generator-t5.html)
*You can probably rack mount the instrument if you wish, buy the LeCroy accesory: http://cdn.teledynelecroy.com/files/manuals/wavestation_rackmount_assembly_instructions.pdf (http://cdn.teledynelecroy.com/files/manuals/wavestation_rackmount_assembly_instructions.pdf)
*You can install LeCroy's firmware on your Siglent: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1000-(aka-lecroy-wavestation)-firmware-updates/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1000-(aka-lecroy-wavestation)-firmware-updates/)
*Overshoot measurements and some USBTMC discussion: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/new-siglent-sdg1020-vs-used-fluke-281-wavetek-39a/msg137823/#msg137823 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/new-siglent-sdg1020-vs-used-fluke-281-wavetek-
39a/msg137823/#msg137823)
*External modulation input sampling frequency (correction: the maximum internal modulation frequency is 20kHz) (starts halfway into the review): http://www.tequipment.net/Siglent/SDG1010/Fully-usable-AWG-at-a-very-low-price/c629c3f1890b4/ (http://www.tequipment.net/Siglent/SDG1010/Fully-usable-AWG-at-a-very-low-price/c629c3f1890b4/)
*There is a method for loading CSV files directly into the SDG1000 series, that aparently does compression: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/looking-for-reasonable-dds-function-gererator-need-opinions-please/msg577256/#msg577256 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/looking-for-reasonable-dds-function-gererator-need-opinions-please/msg577256/#msg577256)
*There is a way to add a temperature controlled crystal oscillator (TCXO) for higher accuracy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxCDfNCLj08#ws (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxCDfNCLj08#ws)
*Of course, you could also get a 10MHz reference, as accurate as you'd like, put it in a nice project box and connect it to the external 10MHZ input. Just remember there will be jitter on the output anyways, because it's a DDS.
Other information of interest
*Siglent has released a Power Amplifier with a bandwidth of up to 1MHz and a power output of 10W (when ouputting between 500Hz and 200kHz). It's tailored towards their signal generators.
Product page: http://www.siglent.com/ENs/prodcut-fjxx.aspx?fjid=1071&id=145&tid=16&T=2 (http://www.siglent.com/ENs/prodcut-fjxx.aspx?fjid=1071&id=145&tid=16&T=2)
Manual: http://www.siglent.com/2014EnglishWebsite/Documents/UserManual/SPA1000_UserManual_UM60010-E01A.pdf (http://www.siglent.com/2014EnglishWebsite/Documents/UserManual/SPA1000_UserManual_UM60010-E01A.pdf)
*SDG1000 and SDG5000 series comparison: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/siglent-equipment-old-or-new-design- (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/siglent-equipment-old-or-new-design-)!!/
*Opinions on Rigol vs Siglent generators: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/buysellwanted/best-cost-effective-option-for-arbitrary-function-generator/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/buysellwanted/best-cost-effective-option-for-arbitrary-function-generator/)
*3 mods you can do: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/looking-for-reasonable-dds-function-gererator-need-opinions-please/msg579056/#msg579056 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/looking-for-reasonable-dds-function-gererator-need-opinions-please/msg579056/#msg579056)
*Wiki-style page, including IC names, and teardown photos. The Wiki belongs to an open source project, which I recommend you check out: http://sigrok.org/wiki/Siglent_SDG1010 (http://sigrok.org/wiki/Siglent_SDG1010)
SDG800 series
Members of the series
(pending)
Specs
Official datasheet http://siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Documents/DataSheet/SDG800_DataSheet_DS02008-E02A.pdf (http://siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Documents/DataSheet/SDG800_DataSheet_DS02008-E02A.pdf)
Specs known but not officially listed
Firmware
*Official firmware download center: http://siglenteu.com/gjjrj.aspx?id=15 (http://siglenteu.com/gjjrj.aspx?id=15)
Verify that the model number is correct before downloading
Manuals
*User manual: http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Documents/UserManual/SDG800_UserManual_UM02008-E02B.pdf (http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Documents/UserManual/SDG800_UserManual_UM02008-E02B.pdf)
*Service manual: there is no service manual officially published online. If there's one on the CD, please upload it for us. Thank you.
*Programming manual: http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Documents/Other/SDG800_RemoteControlManual_RC02008-E02A.pdf (http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Documents/Other/SDG800_RemoteControlManual_RC02008-E02A.pdf)
PC Software
Official EasyWave software: http://siglenteu.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=868&tid=14 (http://siglenteu.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=868&tid=14)
Authorized distribuitors (or anyone who offers a warranty)
Siglent offers a 3 year factory warranty, sellers listed provide this warranty. If they offer a different warranty, that will be pointed out.
*Forum member tautech, New Zealand: http://www.tautech.co.nz/ (http://www.tautech.co.nz/)
*Forum member rf-loop,Finland: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/profile/?u=413 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/profile/?u=413) He offers this warranty (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-sdg1000-and-sdg800-thread/msg589480/#msg589480) as a complement.
Reviews
(pending)
Teardowns
*Teardown of the SDG805 with photos of the internals: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/teardown-of-siglent%27s-sdg805-arbitrary-waveform-generator/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/teardown-of-siglent%27s-sdg805-arbitrary-waveform-generator/)
Issues (unsolved)
(pending)
Issues (solved)
(pending)
Findings
*You can probably rack mount the instrument if you wish, buy the LeCroy accesory: http://cdn.teledynelecroy.com/files/manuals/wavestation_rackmount_assembly_instructions.pdf (http://cdn.teledynelecroy.com/files/manuals/wavestation_rackmount_assembly_instructions.pdf)
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Nice thread :-+
I am not aware if the LabVIEW thing is possible with Siglent's firmware
I can confirm it is possible to get the LabVIEW interface running with Siglent's firmware by modifying the LeCroy LabVIEW "code". IIRC you need to look for the *IDN? SCPI command in the "code" (or WTF you call that OO GUI crap?) and replace the strings from "Wavestation nnnn" to "SDGnnnn". Of course LabVIEW is a total dogs dinner, I only got to play with the trial version and it had me tearing my hair out.
Stick with something more natural to a programmer, like Visual Studio, Excel even, or MATLAB which I have not had the pleasure of using yet, but Shahriar (thesignalpath) seems to use all the time. Also make sure you download and install the FULL NI-VISA and not just the runtime version.
Oh, one other thing that got my piss boiling for at least a day |O was not knowing that the SDG1000s defaulted to a USBRAW format, and if you want to use NI-VISA, you have to change to USBTMC in the Utility panel. ;)
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I edited the post, thank you :)
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Nice thread :-+
I am not aware if the LabVIEW thing is possible with Siglent's firmware
I can confirm it is possible to get the LabVIEW interface running with Siglent's firmware by modifying the LeCroy LabVIEW "code". IIRC you need to look for the *IDN? SCPI command in the "code" (or WTF you call that OO GUI crap?) and replace the strings from "Wavestation nnnn" to "SDGnnnn".
Specifically, what you have to do if you want a LabVIEW driver for the SDG1010, SDG1020, SDG1025 or SDG1050 (yes, this is for search engine ranking :P ) is: install LeCroy's "driver" as usual (that is, unzipping the folder and copying it to C:\Program Files\National Instruments\LabVIEW 2014\instr.lib\), open the labview project file called "Teledyne LeCroy WaveStation.lvproj", then in the project explorer, look for a file called "LCWS Initialize.vi", double click, then open the block editor by double clicking one of the UI controls just in the right spot, look for a pink block called "WST," and change the text to "SDG,", voila. Done :-+
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Hi ivan747. Thanks for starting this thread. I know it will very useful. I just wanted to mention, in the interest of being thorough, that there is a model SDG1005, too. This is the model I have. Not surprisingly, it has no fan, which is great for the audio work that I do.
Is there any other user that wishes there was a way to change the output level readout, say from volts to dbm, without having to reenter a value?
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What do you use dBm for, may I ask?
You can print a table with volts and dBm values, if you want, but you are right. It is something that can be added to the settings menu.
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*There is a way to add a temperature controlled crystal oscillator (TCXO) for higher accuracy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxCDfNCLj08#ws (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxCDfNCLj08#ws)
Does this solve the jitter problem with short pulses generated at low frequency or does it just improve precision?
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It doesn't solve the jitter problem at low frequencies. That problem CAN be solved with another hardware modification. It consists of replacing a couple of SMD resistors on the board with lower value ones. It is linked in the main thread.
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*There is a way to add a temperature controlled crystal oscillator (TCXO) for higher accuracy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxCDfNCLj08#ws (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxCDfNCLj08#ws)
Does this solve the jitter problem with short pulses generated at low frequency or does it just improve precision?
First need particularize what jitter we are talking and produced by Square or Pulse function. (they have totally different operating principle and jitter mechanism is different)
Also need first know what is "low frequency" in this case. Is it 1mHz (milli Herz) or is it 1Hz or 1kHz or what. Also 1MHz is low frequency for others and "high frequency" for some others.
If we talk Pulse mode, there is system operating principle generated 8ns jitter independent of frequency (+ other jitters) This is because it have 125MSa/s and in this working principle it need some "jumping" for adjust pulse period/frequency.
If we talk about Square wave, and it is very different case due to its operating principle.
There can do some modifications what can improve cycle to cycle jitter some amount or more depending what manufacture version (and lot) it is.
In this model Square wave is derived from sinewave. (it works so that internally it produce sinewave in this Square wave mode - this is common classic way to do Square / rectangle.)
This is done: Sine --> in Comparator (with adjustable treshold and hysteresis) out --> Square/rectangle.
In this operation, specially with very low frequency side product is timing jitter. This is because there is not ideal pure zero noise sinewave, there is not ideal Comparator without noise and not treshold voltage without noise and so on.)
There is two separate way to improve sguare/rectangle wave timing jitter related to this comparator. (Comparator there is fast PECL comparator). Today (and starting long time ago) Siglent have changed it. It is possible that still can do some minor improvement. If people have older unit, it is possible it can improve lot of.
In old case there was too narrow hysteresis window. It leads to corner glitches and high amount of time jitter with low frequendcies and even pulse bursts in worst case near rise and fall.
This can fix adjusting hysteresis window more wide. This can adjust with hysteresis set resistor value. But also this improvement need compromise. (if want also 20% and 80% duty timing jitter minimize then 50% time jitter can not minimize. If want get best possible 50% duty jitter, then 20/80% duty goes more bad. So it need compromize. For hyst set around 20k resistance values are ok but if put more weight for 50% duty time jitter then there can use example 15k or even more low but then perhaps too much reduced quality for 20 and 80% duty.
Other source for time jitter is internal sinewave in PECL inputs. Jitter can some amount improve if filter higher noise frequencies from signal. In simply way it there is 50ohm (49.99) terminator resistors for internal sinewave lines to PECL inputs. Parallel with these resistors can solder small capacitors (these can solder over resistor). (I do not remember values exatly but we talk here about picofarads. Perhaps something around 30pF (depending model). It can select using tests specially if want find best compromise).
Comparator is ADCMP562.
In this image (from old unit) can see that Hysteresis setting resistors are 40.2k (R82, R87) and this individual unit have high amount Square corner glitches and low freguencies cycle to cycle jitter (specially under 10kHz frequencies)
Internal sinewave transmission line terminators (50 ohm) in signal path to comparator are R193, R194)
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Are SDG10xx hackable for max frequency nowadays ? I'll prefer to have Siglent to Hantek HDG2002B.
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Are SDG10xx hackable for max frequency nowadays ? I'll prefer to have Siglent to Hantek HDG2002B.
Maybe, but to date nobody that I'm aware of has made the effort.
You'd want to be aware the low frequency(>10 MHz) don't have cooling fans while over 10 MHz they do.
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Are SDG10xx hackable for max frequency nowadays ? I'll prefer to have Siglent to Hantek HDG2002B.
No. It looks like Siglent do not use this marketing trick. (least yet)
(For sinewave, of course with reduced specs example SDG1010 can produce 50MHz using Arb and equation: 10*(sin(10*x)).
Now with 5MHz set for Arb it give out 50MHz.)
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What do you use dBm for, may I ask?
You can print a table with volts and dBm values, if you want, but you are right. It is something that can be added to the settings menu.
I'm just used to having precision attenuators on my FGs. I'll sometimes start with a particular output voltage and then want to drop it by a certain db amount. It would be convenient to be able to switch level reading types on the fly. When in the middle of a repair, or test, it is nice to not have to be distracted by a calculation or chart. Audio is my main business, and most gain stages are measured in referenced db values. I have an external precision attenuator, but it takes precious time to set up. If the SDG unit would just let one open the level set menu without entering a value, the measurement type of interest could just be selected, and the unit would convert the existing level to it.
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Are SDG10xx hackable for max frequency nowadays ? I'll prefer to have Siglent to Hantek HDG2002B.
No. It looks like Siglent do not use this marketing trick. (least yet)
(For sinewave, of course with reduced specs example SDG1010 can produce 50MHz using Arb and equation: 10*(sin(10*x)).
Now with 5MHz set for Arb it give out 50MHz.)
Personally, I think they do use the trick, and the only difference is the fan. We would have to start some formal research on this.
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Are SDG10xx hackable for max frequency nowadays ? I'll prefer to have Siglent to Hantek HDG2002B.
No. It looks like Siglent do not use this marketing trick. (least yet)
(For sinewave, of course with reduced specs example SDG1010 can produce 50MHz using Arb and equation: 10*(sin(10*x)).
Now with 5MHz set for Arb it give out 50MHz.)
Personally, I think they do use the trick, and the only difference is the fan. We would have to start some formal research on this.
Really?
I can tell least this. Every single unit is different. Every SDG1010 is different. Every SDG1025 is different. Every SDG1005 is different. Every SDG1020 is different. Every SDG1050 is different.
Main stream models are SDG1010, 1025 and 1050. There 1025 and 1050 have fan.
Fan is needed. If we run unit 24/7 using these specifications limit values where stress is most high it need survive it without risk that failure rate grow too high. It is statistics. It need also include knowledge about components tolerances and all combinations what may occur, also worst cases. So if one individual survive it do not tell yet nearly anything. It need statistics using lot of equipments.
After manufacture there can see some units are better and some not if looks some test values what may include elliptic filters quality and end amplifier situations with different loads(!) with different waveforms including all kind of impedance mismatches and so on... and just example some units have better square, less jitter and more jitter, and including that difference may occur only if go to other than 50% duty values.
Some units whole circuit (mid way amplifiers, filters, attenuators and end stage freq response is different, not only designed different but also due to all componets tolerances (and it need also know component values drift after ageing).
If product can not meet some (company internal) specifications in product test for example 1025 model what to do. I think no one believe they go to recycling. So what to do? First idea what every people can himself think is try if it still meet some other model specs. If it meet SDSG1020 factory internals test specifications so that it can be this model, then it is just ok.
I do NOT KNOW if this is true in Siglent case but if I do this kind of products I do it.
But then, if you take SDG1005 and SDG1050 do you really think only designed(1) HW difference is fan. I do not "believe".
(1) there is least two kind of differencies in HW.
- designed differencies
- not designed differencies from every single component tolerances and all combinations with these, including also differencies in plain main boards what also are individuals still after designed to be equal.
Example around end amplifiers there is really small things what affect lot of. (and example in attenuator/elliptic filer/filter section)
Just for tiny example some pF change and all is different and many other things.
I know it, I have changed SDG1000's end amplifiers just because different manufacturer "compatible" is not at all compatible (accidentally - or trying money saving - or just due to availability in needed time - Siglent used (in some manuf. lot) different manufacturer compatible end amplifier.). In this time also I have investigated end stages due to some ringing in cases where output is loaded with some level range using just some other than pure resistive load. After these and knowing how small differencies there need it is easy to understand that 50MHz model is not same as 25 or 10 or 5 MHz model. Even if they looks like same they are not same (designed or not designed differencies - I do not want to take a stand.).
Or take example Sine to Square circuit. Small differencies in components real values inside their tolerances and other unit have much more cycle to cycle time jitter specially with low frequencies.
I have investigated this thing inside SDG1000 quite deeply and also made some experimental's there in circuit. (results are allready published)
Solution is extremely simply: If need 50MHz model buy 50MHz model. If need 5MHz model, buy it but do not want after then want it still is like 50MHz model if you add fan to it.
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Solution is extremely simply: If need 50MHz model buy 50MHz model. If need 5MHz model, buy it but do not want after then want it still is like 50MHz model if you add fan to it.
I could not agree more! Besides the possible technical differences between them, you are also trying to steal intellectual property from the manufacturer by "unlocking" higher specs than what you paid for. And you do not pay alot for what you get in a Siglent.
Just my 2 cents
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Authorized distribuitors (or anyone who offers a warranty)
(pending)
Myself & rf-loop plus other members.
I have a dozen SDG810's in the field with 3 year factory warranties.
Happy for you to link my website. ;)
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Authorized distribuitors (or anyone who offers a warranty)
(pending)
Myself & rf-loop plus other members.
I have a dozen SDG810's in the field with 3 year factory warranties.
Happy for you to link my website. ;)
Yes.
I have n amount of SDG's and other Siglent equipments in the field with 3 year factory warranties.
But today also more than just 3 year "factory warranty".
(beginning 15.Jan. 2015)
Here, locally in Finland, of course with 3 year factory warranty as Siglent
(Siglent Technologies Europe GmbH
Liebigstrasse 2-20, Gebaeude 14
22113 Hamburg
Germany)
have stated about warranty in European Union area.
( http://siglenteu.com/shfw.aspx?id=16 (http://siglenteu.com/shfw.aspx?id=16)
For some models what I have accepted (due to longer time experience) I give also in Finland 1st year my own warranty extension to these units what have passed in my own Q.C. before sold.
For customer it means that customer send or bring broken device to me after he first get RMA from me. Just simply, if equipment is warranty failed (what warranty cover), customer contact me and afters sooner or later he have working unit.
Depending failure, in co-operation with the Siglent be decided which is the wisest way to proceed in this individual case.
And of courseif customer have him self made failure doing some "oops..." type mistake, we can also repair these using Siglent spare parts. But this kind of service is not free.
-
@rf-loop
SDG1025 board photo (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1025-arbitraryfunction-generator-under-some-tests/?action=dlattach;attach=27249;image)
SDG1010 board photo (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/siglent-sdg1010-function-generator-teardown/?action=dlattach;attach=28723)
(Haven't found a pic for SDG1050)
Looks like exactly the same design to me. Maybe they indeed use a different components, but don't think so, why bother in a first place ? If Siglent do a design for 0-50 MHz DDS (which they do because SDG1050 is there), then it gonna work for 0-5 MHz without any changes at all, so there are no point for them to pay even 1 cent more because summary of all components + assembly costs for 50 MHz model likely to be smaller then selling price for 5 MHz model (remember how iPhone hardware was estimated around 200$, but selling price is 600+$).
The only question why they don't sell 50 MHz model for a price of 5 MHz, and an answer is quite simple - product development requires a budget (+office +revenue +tax +whatever), so each unit price contains one part for hardware, and another part is to cover development. Also they don't plan to sell a lot of them, so development costs per unit are quite significant. So in result unit is expensive, so they don't sell a lot because users aren't willing to pay so many in a first place.
So would you mind to show us hardware differences between models and prove that my assumptions are wrong :)
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Every SDG1010 is different. Every SDG1025 is different. Every SDG1005 is different. Every SDG1020 is different. Every SDG1050 is different.
What? So if you open up a few SDG1025's they are all going to be different? Like they just randomly stick any old junk to hand at the factory? They don't have a standard schematic and service manual? This doesn't inspire me with any confidence. In fact I think I should just throw the thing in the bin and buy a proper arb gen if the Siglents are just bodged together like a dogs dinner with any old shit Won Hung Lo finds on the scrap heap that day. :palm:
-
Every SDG1010 is different. Every SDG1025 is different. Every SDG1005 is different. Every SDG1020 is different. Every SDG1050 is different.
What? So if you open up a few SDG1025's they are all going to be different? Like they just randomly stick any old junk to hand at the factory? They don't have a standard schematic and service manual? This doesn't inspire me with any confidence. In fact I think I should just throw the thing in the bin and buy a proper arb gen if the Siglents are just bodged together like a dogs dinner with any old shit Won Hung Lo finds on the scrap heap that day. :palm:
Shit Macbeth, did you not take the time to read rf-loop's post carefully. :palm:
These units perform well against compeditors because care is taken they WILL meet specifications.
Some units whole circuit (mid way amplifiers, filters, attenuators and end stage freq response is different, not only designed different but also due to all componets tolerances (and it need also know component values drift after ageing).
Check this thread to see how my 10 MHz unit performs against similar units:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/show-us-your-square-wave/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/show-us-your-square-wave/)
-
Every SDG1010 is different. Every SDG1025 is different. Every SDG1005 is different. Every SDG1020 is different. Every SDG1050 is different.
What? So if you open up a few SDG1025's they are all going to be different? Like they just randomly stick any old junk to hand at the factory? They don't have a standard schematic and service manual? This doesn't inspire me with any confidence. In fact I think I should just throw the thing in the bin and buy a proper arb gen if the Siglents are just bodged together like a dogs dinner with any old shit Won Hung Lo finds on the scrap heap that day. :palm:
No.
But still every single unit is different.
Every single resistor, every single capasitor, every inductor, every amplifier and so on, even every PCB, all they are different, more or less.
Every component have its tolerances. In some cases all components are quaranteed inside tolerance limits and in some cases it is guaranteed 2SD is indside limits or what ever is spesified or promised.
Product have lot of these components. As all componets are random (inside limits) there is lot of combinations.
Take example one filter. There is perhaps many resistors, capasitors and inductors... do 100 pcs with real designed components and after then measure every filter shapes - do you believe they are same and you find 100 individual filter. Analog electronics world is...
If we do digital things... you take component what make 8 and 8 bit AND. You make 100 these circuits... and if not total failures they all give same result.
In SDG there is lot of analog circuits. Amplifiers, comparators, attenuators, filters...
It is possible to make 100 SDG1050 and find that some SDG1050 is example "borderline" with specs but if sell as 1010 it is ok. So... (I do not claim they do just this but also it is possible... and if I do products I want use also this... )
Possible differences in values of some components in different models, I do not want and I can not take a stand.
There may be some differencies also in different HW versions and different manufacturing lots.
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If product can not meet some (company internal) specifications in product test for example 1025 model what to do. I think no one believe they go to recycling. So what to do? First idea what every people can himself think is try if it still meet some other model specs. If it meet SDSG1020 factory internals test specifications so that it can be this model, then it is just ok.
I do NOT KNOW if this is true in Siglent case but if I do this kind of products I do it.
That makes no sense. You are not going to produce a product and hope it meets specs and sell it as a lower specced if it doesn't. That way you can't be sure you have enough units to sell. There must be other differences like component values between the low frequency and high frequency unit. I'm pretty sure there is a model number encoded somewhere either as a jumper option or somewhere in a flash. The output circuitry can also be different to have a lower frequency roll off.
-
If product can not meet some (company internal) specifications in product test for example 1025 model what to do. I think no one believe they go to recycling. So what to do? First idea what every people can himself think is try if it still meet some other model specs. If it meet SDSG1020 factory internals test specifications so that it can be this model, then it is just ok.
I do NOT KNOW if this is true in Siglent case but if I do this kind of products I do it.
That makes no sense. You are not going to produce a product and hope it meets specs and sell it as a lower specced if it doesn't. That way you can't be sure you have enough units to sell. There must be other differences like component values between the low frequency and high frequency unit. I'm pretty sure there is a model number encoded somewhere either as a jumper option or somewhere in a flash. The output circuitry can also be different to have a lower frequency roll off.
I have no any idea for dispute what is case exatly in Siglent with these.
This is not at all relevant with this case but still intersting (and really very extremely normal):
Take example this fun about one "famous" ADC.
ADC is designed and produced for 100MSa/s
AD sell them 100, 80 and 40MSa/s versions. Circuit is same, designed components in the chip are same...
If I do SDG1000 Idesign do all same 50MHz models.
I then do some very trivial separation using some automatised test.
What ever day If need sell more SDG1010 what are not in this fraction allready. Just take from 50MHz fraction and set model for SDG1010.
But I have no any idea how Siglent do and I have also see some differencies..., if someone ask "I do not remember"
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Chip yield is something different because the process is hard to control. You can't compare that to a complete electronic circuit.
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Chip yield is something different because the process is hard to control. You can't compare that to a complete electronic circuit.
True but also in analog circuits tens of components random values (inside tolerances) produce differencies. There can use more tight specified components and so on but still variations.
In cheap equipment can not use expensive narrow tolerances componets. It only need accept that products are more or less different and some kind of compromise. Example I have seen differencies in individual SDG's. (same model) and some is better with jitter, some is better with level accuracy and some differencies in rise times and some other differencies. Some clock have more phase noise, some have more temp sensitive and so on. All are different. But inside specifications. (mostly)
Then there have been some "fun" (unexpected) cases. One example here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1020-square-signal-%27dirty%27/msg224941/#msg224941 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1020-square-signal-%27dirty%27/msg224941/#msg224941)
This amplifier (b) is Texas Instruments OPA695 (it is used in some units).
It need change to Intersil EL5166ISZ
(also Siglent have used CLC1606 in some units and this also looks like ok
EDIT/ADD: in problem case also this need change to Intersil EL5166ISZ )
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Firmware
Reportedly, Siglent's firmware versions always end in an odd number.
At the time of this writing, the latest SDG1000 firmware update available on http://siglenteu.com/gjjrj.aspx?id=15 (http://siglenteu.com/gjjrj.aspx?id=15)
is called 1.01.01.36R1. I haven't seen an Rn suffix before.
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Firmware
Reportedly, Siglent's firmware versions always end in an odd number.
At the time of this writing, the latest SDG1000 firmware update available on http://siglenteu.com/gjjrj.aspx?id=15 (http://siglenteu.com/gjjrj.aspx?id=15)
is called 1.01.01.36R1. I haven't seen an Rn suffix before.
Yes, this confuses me as well. Any other reports? RF-loop, I think you know about this.
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I wouldn't be the slightest bit surprised if they used lower spec parts in the lower frequency models. There are plenty of parts that are pin compatible with much higher spec parts. Would also not be surprised if they used the same spec parts in all models, and just software limited the unit. I seriously doubt that they are binning. If the design is at all reasonable, it doesn't seem like you would expect that some parts could reach 50 Mhz and others would only reach 5 Mhz. That would be a ridiculous amount of variation.
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Exchanging chips to reduce bandwidth is a valid approach if you have no intention of selling upgrade (soft) options. Very effective compared to depopulating a board. If a chip(s) is missing you only need to find out what it is and reinstall. If you need to remove a chip (and change some filter items for example) it becomes more of an issue.
If you look at the Rigol 1054z the bits missing on the main board are for the logic analyzer stuff and a panel connector to tie it in. They also have a set of resistors that id the board, that is probably for the logic analyzer and sig gen. I expect it won't take long before the logic analyzer stuff is hacked. A few chips, power reg, connector assy and figure out the board id.
Anyway Siglent's approach to the issue is a good one, at least as good as you can get. Interesting subject.
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Firmware
Reportedly, Siglent's firmware versions always end in an odd number.
At the time of this writing, the latest SDG1000 firmware update available on http://siglenteu.com/gjjrj.aspx?id=15 (http://siglenteu.com/gjjrj.aspx?id=15)
is called 1.01.01.36R1. I haven't seen an Rn suffix before.
Yes, this confuses me as well. Any other reports? RF-loop, I think you know about this.
I do not know where from this kind of beliefs are coming but:
There have been and is currently FW version ending with odd and even numbers and there is and have beeen also Rn
There have been also odd andd even ending FW versions also for SDG1000 series.
current public list for many Siglent equipments:
Example for SDG800:
1.08.01.06
1.08.01.07
1.08.01.08
Other equipments currently
1.01.01.03R1
1.01.01.06R2
1.01.01.37.2
1.08.01.07
1.01.01.09
1.01.01.36R1
1.08.01.06
5.06.02.19
5.08.02.30
3.01.02.01
1.01.01.35.01
1.01.01.31
5.01.01.10
5.06.02.16
5.01.02.13
5.01.02.22
5.03.02.12
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Does anyone know if the 800 series has a fan?
Also, what's the deal with the giant rubber bumpers on function generators? Are manufacturers assuming people are throwing them in the back of pickup trucks? :-//
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Also, what's the deal with the giant rubber bumpers on function generators? Are manufacturers assuming people are throwing them in the back of pickup trucks? :-//
They grip to the bench more than a Formula 1 tire and it looks cool O0 I like them.
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Does anyone know if the 800 series has a fan?
I believe not. but I know sure that lowest model, SDG805, do not have fan. (as also SDG1010 and SDG1005 do not have)
(I have one SDG805 for analyze, disassemble, assemble and after then use for demo/promotion purposes if it is still ok after all handling and proof tests. Time when I buy it, all other models was sold out and I did not want wait. Later I will do some tests and peek inside (because I need study also how to repair/service these models if need and also I do not give my warranty extensions over factory warranty if I have not analyzed HW building quality and construction and if it pass, then these units what have been in my own burn in test phase and passed I will give (local inside Fi)) warranty extension. So, after some time I know more... )
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Function Generator -- Big Bumpers Extreme Edition!
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Function Generator -- Big Bumpers Extreme Edition!
Yes, that is our off-road function generator :)
Steve
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Does anyone have a teardown of the SDG800 series?
Is the chassis rust still an issue on recent Siglent function generators? (Dave's teardown video #497 is about 1.5 years old.)
thanks,
jamieson
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Does anyone have a teardown of the SDG800 series?
Is the chassis rust still an issue on recent Siglent function generators? (Dave's teardown video #497 is about 1.5 years old.)
thanks,
jamieson
I can pick-up negative things from what ever equipment from what ever manufacturer just if I want. I have seen so terrible crap things made by HP, Tek, Philips, ChingChangChung, Fluke, R&S and so on... . Just if want I can find these and today even more that 60's or 70's or 80's..
Also if same negative thing is in other brand, rewiever can be blind ("I did not see it") and override whole thing. This looks more like normal practice.
Do you mean something like this?
(this image is not from Siglent but from other and brand new "high-end" equipment)
This kind of rust color is not any kind of issue in this kind of position. There is not "Rust issue" in Siglent equipments any more than in other this kind of equipments. Also I can tell that outer box is aluminium and/or plastic. Of course if rewiever bias (intentional or unintentional) is for finding negative things so that peoples stay more on the channel. Media business is...
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Does anyone have a teardown of the SDG800 series?
Yes, here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/teardown-of-siglent%27s-sdg805-arbitrary-waveform-generator/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/teardown-of-siglent%27s-sdg805-arbitrary-waveform-generator/)
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Does anyone have a teardown of the SDG800 series?
Yes, here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/teardown-of-siglent%27s-sdg805-arbitrary-waveform-generator/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/teardown-of-siglent%27s-sdg805-arbitrary-waveform-generator/)
-Added to the list :-+
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Something with SDG805.
This is 5MHz model in SDG800 series.
In all pictures signal coming from SDG805 and output level is same exept last image where is modulation (no any other reason but this image is from other test set)
How it go over 5MHz? Is it hacked? :-/O
(no explanations ;) )
sidenote: 20kHz is only as reference for level and also because my Keithley 2015THD measurement is Limited to 20kHz.
0.005% THD is nice for cheap function generator.
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x2/aghp55/SDG800/SDG805-20kHzimg19.png)
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x2/aghp55/SDG800/SDG805-1MHzimg20.png)
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x2/aghp55/SDG800/SDG805-5MHzimg22.png)
Then break the 5 MHz great wall.
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x2/aghp55/SDG800/SDG805-10MHzimg23.png)
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x2/aghp55/SDG800/SDG805-15MHzimg25.png)
image with 20MHz accidentally loosed, but signal drop is less than 1dB related to 15MHz image))
So, for 20MHz I will show image from other test set with SDG805
20MHz carrier amplitude modulated with 3kHz with 50% mod depth.
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x2/aghp55/SDG800/SDG805-20MHz-AMmod3kHz-50img103.png)
Later play with around 7-8ns rising and falling times with SDG805.
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About SDG805 rising and falling times.
Here two pictures where is ramp start and end edge.
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x2/aghp55/SDG800/SDG805-1kHz-Ramp-down-rise-edge.png)
Ramp down, starting edge rise. (first ?8ns rising edge up and after then ramp fall slowly down)
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x2/aghp55/SDG800/SDG805-1kHz-Ramp-up-end-fall-edge.png)
Ramp up, ending edge fall. (first ramp rise slowly up and then this ?8ns falling edge down)
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It need note that SDG800 series data sheet (DQS02008 --E02A) have mistake.
1. Output level: There is only 50 ohm load levels. Hi-Z load levels are double. This information is missing.
2. Pulse function (SDG805): Minimum is 48ns. (16ns information is mistake)
(I do not know with my own eyes SDG810 or SDG830)
---------------------------
Square wave function:
SDG800 series Square wave is very different if compare with SDG1000 series.
With low frequencies SDG800 have much less cycle to cycle time jitter.
First just 5MHz Square (delay one cycle)
Then 1kHz Square rising edge and here delay 1ms (delay agen one cycle)
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x2/aghp55/SDG800/SDG805-5MHz-Sqr-200ns-delay.png)
5MHz One cycle delay (200ns).
30s persistence
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x2/aghp55/SDG800/SDG805-5MHz-Sqr-1ms-delay.png)
5MHz 1000000ns delay. (1ms)
30s persistence
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x2/aghp55/SDG800/SDG805-1kHz-Sqr-1ms-delay.png)
1kHz One cycle delay (1000000ns delay)
In image 1 horizontal div is 20ppm from 1ms time delay.
30s persistence
It need note that 1ms delay time jitter is perhaps coming mainly from system clock. (this same "wow and flutter" can see with all waveforms and it is around same. Other jitter is is 8ns systematic jitter with ramp, arb and pulse what is coming it working principle fundamentals (125MSa/s) In measurement there is of course summed also oscilloscope possible time jitter.
With 1ms time 1ns is 1ppm. (0.0001%)
Later more frequency and under 48ns width pulses etc. ("Breaking" SDG805 5MHz limit)
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About SDG805 rising and falling times.
Here two pictures where is ramp start and end edge.
Ramp down, starting edge rise. (first ?8ns rising edge up and after then ramp fall slowly down)
Ramp up, ending edge fall. (first ramp rise slowly up and then this ?8ns falling edge down)
As far as I can tell, the edge is not actually measured in those pictures, and the timebase is too slow to make it easy and accurate to measure it visually. So, yes, we can see it doesn't ring (mostly because of good termination, not the generator itself, which I am sure it's good), but we cannot see how fast it actually rises.
-
How it go over 5MHz? Is it hacked? :-/O
(no explanations ;) )
:-\ Well, it's a nice experiment for you, but not much for everyone else.
-
It need note that SDG800 series data sheet (DQS02008 --E02A) have mistake.
1. Output level: There is only 50 ohm load levels. Hi-Z load levels are double. This information is missing.
2. Pulse function (SDG805): Minimum is 48ns. (16ns information is mistake)
(I do not know with my own eyes SDG810 or SDG830)
---------------------------
Square wave function:
SDG800 series Square wave is very different if compare with SDG1000 series.
With low frequencies SDG800 have much less cycle to cycle time jitter.
First just 5MHz Square (delay one cycle)
Then 1kHz Square rising edge and here delay 1ms (delay agen one cycle)
5MHz One cycle delay (200ns).
30s persistence
5MHz 1000000ns delay. (1ms)
30s persistence
1kHz One cycle delay (1000000ns delay)
In image 1 horizontal div is 20ppm from 1ms time delay.
30s persistence
It need note that 1ms delay time jitter is perhaps coming mainly from system clock. (this same "wow and flutter" can see with all waveforms and it is around same. Other jitter is is 8ns systematic jitter with ramp, arb and pulse what is coming it working principle fundamentals (125MSa/s) In measurement there is of course summed also oscilloscope possible time jitter.
With 1ms time 1ns is 1ppm. (0.0001%)
Later more frequency and under 48ns width pulses etc. ("Breaking" SDG805 5MHz limit)
Thanks for that info.
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About SDG805 rising and falling times.
Here two pictures where is ramp start and end edge.
Ramp down, starting edge rise. (first ?8ns rising edge up and after then ramp fall slowly down)
Ramp up, ending edge fall. (first ramp rise slowly up and then this ?8ns falling edge down)
As far as I can tell, the edge is not actually measured in those pictures, and the timebase is too slow to make it easy and accurate to measure it visually. So, yes, we can see it doesn't ring (mostly because of good termination, not the generator itself, which I am sure it's good), but we cannot see how fast it actually rises.
Edge is not there measured but with enough accuracy my eyes can see it is around 8ns what is enough accurate to tell in this case.
Top and bottom "ringing" (most part of it) come from SDG800 (internal system filter what is compromise between many things) . (this kind of risetime do not need any special transfer line matching more than good quality coax and oscilloscope input 50ohm "impedance" what really is not at all 50ohm impedance exept with DC. But still better than nothing and for this pulse shape well enough. Situation is very different if we have fast rising edge what really have high amount of harmonics, and more than scope can handle. But here we have highly lp filtered signal (with reasons)
Here two images for better estimate more accurate risetime if it is needed.
(note delays - 0ne cycle for look cycle - cycle time jitter. This 8ns "jumping" and how it is distributed statistically depends frequency and how it need adjust it. (because this is "simple machine"))
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Thanks for the valuable info. A lot of things are missing for the SDG800 series, so thank you :-+
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How it go over 5MHz? Is it hacked? :-/O
(no explanations ;) )
:-\ Well, it's a nice experiment for you, but not much for everyone else.
Now some explanation..
It is for everyone. It need only "hack" factory shipping carton and take SDG out and next step is RTFM and use.
Arb memory lenght is 16384 points as told in manual and specifications.
Arb max frequency setting is 5MHz. Nowhere is told Arb produced maximum frequenxcy is 5MHz.
IF Arb frequency setting is 5MHz and Arb memory contain 1 cycle of sinewave output is 5MHz sinewave.
No one have told that Arb memory can contain only one cycle. It is for free waveforms - arbitrary waveforms. If this Arb memory waveform is 2 cycle of sinewave then 5MHz arb freq setting give out 10MHz.
For this, attached 2Xsine.csv.txt
For "first time" users: Just download it, do not make any changes but rename it: 2Xsine.csv. Save it it to USB stick and reaad it to SDG Arb memory. Set Arb freq 5MHz and you get 10MHz sinewave out.
But when think and do own waveforms it need understand what it means it have 125MSa/s speed!
It means 8ns steps.
5MHz one cycle is 200ns!
Arb memory is 16384 (14bit vertical value) steps.
Using 5MHz setting for Arb frequency means that it need handle whole Arb memory lenght using 200ns. In 200ns time it can read only 25 points.
It can think inverse. If we have oscilloscope what have 125MSa/s sampling speed and 5MHz one cycle. There is now 25 samples per cycle. If we have there 5 cycles it means there is 5 samples per cycle. If there is 10 cycle, it can take only 2.5 sample per cycle. With well working Sin(x)/x it still can draw this sine. Same fundamental principles to both direction, in and out. We can (simplified) imagine that in signal generator Arb memory we have now "sigal" what generator is sampling and now, it do not show this result to screen... because it is not dso, it send result to output because it is signal generator.. In this process there is filtering and also need solve frequency adjustment. (125MSa/s is fixed in this simple machine principle)
In reality, as long as the rules of Nyquist are not violated, an oscilloscope can reconstruct a user’s signal identically. This reconstruction process is often referred to as sin(x)/x interpolation. Whether the sample rate is 25x the Nyquist frequency, or 2.5x the Nyquist frequency, interpolation can be used to reproduce the waveform exactly as it appeared at the oscilloscopes input connector, removing all doubt about a signal’s behaviour between samples.
And just this quoted Agilent paper (http://i.cmpnet.com/planetanalog/2009/02/Sin(x)x_Agilent.pdf) (or other basic fundamentals) we can read inverse. If it can not work inverse - (from group of sample points to signal generator output in this case), it is bullshit theory. No, it is not bullshit, it works just forward and backward.
Using these informations and own skills and experience - with fundamental limits - you can do what you want with also SDG800. Just out from box. Only what need Hack is first this factory carton and power it up.
Attached 2Xsine.csv.txt
(it is just original .csv after you rename it (remove .txt)
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How it go over 5MHz? Is it hacked?
It is for everyone. It need hack factory shipping carton take SDG out and next step is RTFM and use.
Arb memory lenght is 16384 points as told in manual and specifications.
Arb max frequency setting is 5MHz. Nowhere is told Arb produced maximum frequenxcy is 5MHz.
IF Arb frequency setting is 5MHz and Arb memory contain 1 cycle of sinewave output is 5MHz sinewave.
No one have told that Arb memory can contain only one cycle. It is for free waveforms - arbitrary waveforms. If this Arb memory waveform is 2 cycle of sinewave then 5MHz arb freq setting give out 10MHz.
Using these informations and own skills and experience - with fundamental limits - you can do what you want with also SDG800. Just out from box. Only what need Hack is first this factory carton and power it up.
Very nice, I'd better get some in stock. ;)
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Arb max frequency setting is 5MHz. Nowhere is told Arb produced maximum frequenxcy is 5MHz.
Sounds like overkill for me, main reason why one want's to buy DDS unit is too have proper UX (like UI, specs, etc), otherwise one can just buy analog devices DDS-on-chip solution and add glue logic to control it.
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Arb max frequency setting is 5MHz. Nowhere is told Arb produced maximum frequenxcy is 5MHz.
Sounds like overkill for me, main reason why one want's to buy DDS unit is too have proper UX (like UI, specs, etc), otherwise one can just buy analog devices DDS-on-chip solution and add glue logic to control it.
Do you think it do not have?
Here (http://siglentamerica.com/Uploadfile/file/20140925/SDG800_DataSheet_DS02008-E02A.pdf)
What is "overkill"? Just normal use of multifuction/arbitrary waveform generator.
Exept that building quality, signal quality and features are overkill in this price class.
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Repeated my previous tests. (because result was so good that hard to believe)
About SDG805 audio THD.
SDG805 sinewave 20Hz to 20kHz (Keithley 2015THD works only with these limits)
Signal with 50ohm cable to Keithley 2015THD and before test both equipments powered up 1 hour.
Kethley input banana/BNC adapter - 50ohm feed thru terminator.
Level set for 0dBV
Keithley set for 10 counting filter with moving average.
Result:
20Hz THD 0.009%
200Hz THD 0.007%
1kHz THD 0.006%
5kHz THD 0.005%
20kHz THD 0.005%
Result is agen around same if produce sinewave using Arb function. And now also carefully checked that not mistake with level using Arb vs. Sine mode.
Also checked with some other signal generator if my Kethley is out of order. No, they give same kind of results still what I remember and still some (very)old Wavetek is as poor as it have always been (due to its circuits working principle).
NOTE: With Arb function SDG00 displayed Vrms is not at all ok for sinewave. It looks like it really do not calculate it from waveform used.
If in Arb mode level is set using V p-p it is of course ok.
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Every time I try to load a CSV arb file from a USB flash drive my SDG1020 locks up and I have to power cycle it.
The waveform is loaded when it boots back up, so it's not the end of the world.
Firmware: 1.01.01.36R1
Hardware: 02-00-00-22-24
Anyone else experiencing this?
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Every time I try to load a CSV arb file from a USB flash drive my SDG1020 locks up and I have to power cycle it.
The waveform is loaded when it boots back up, so it's not the end of the world.
Firmware: 1.01.01.36R1
Hardware: 02-00-00-22-24
Anyone else experiencing this?
Does it ever freeze when connected to the USB interface and trying to upload a waveform?
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Does it ever freeze when connected to the USB interface and trying to upload a waveform?
I just tried it. That works fine. But I don't normally have it connected to my computer.
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Every time I try to load a CSV arb file from a USB flash drive my SDG1020 locks up and I have to power cycle it.
The waveform is loaded when it boots back up, so it's not the end of the world.
Firmware: 1.01.01.36R1
Hardware: 02-00-00-22-24
Anyone else experiencing this?
I have tested several SDG1000 series ands never meet this problem. Also SDG5000 and SDG800.
(exeption: I have meet some problems when I have used my own selfmade .csv files (using example OpenOffice calc, where something is wrong in .csv file structure.)
Where from these .csv files are. From EasyWaveX? From Oscilloscope?
From some third parties softwares?
Can you attach here one .csv file what do not work without reboot.
(just modify filename.csv so that forum accept it. Example add .txt after filename --> filename.csv.txt)
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Where from these .csv files are. From EasyWaveX? From Oscilloscope?
From some third parties softwares?
The files are from EasyWave. I even tried one one you uploaded.
What I haven't tried is a different USB flash drive. I'll do that today.
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What I haven't tried is a different USB flash drive. I'll do that today.
Yep, the first drive was a 16GB SanDisk Cruizer Switch, but a 1GB Imation drive works fine.
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What I haven't tried is a different USB flash drive. I'll do that today.
Yep, the first drive was a 16GB SanDisk Cruizer Switch, but a 1GB Imation drive works fine.
I do not exactly(!) know if in some Siglent equipment still have some limits with USB stick.
Many times I have recommended to use 8Gb or less size USB2.0 sticks.
FAT32 default cluster size is 4k for 256Mb - 8Gb and 8k for 8Gb - 16Gb and 16k for 16Gb - 32Gb.
Yes, this table what Microsoft have puplished (http://support2.microsoft.com/kb/140365) is really fun. If I look this table then I will ask. Which one is default cluster size exactly for 8Gb 4k or 8k? Or is it random variable both or just "who knows - who cares".
I have not perfect answer what are exactly supported USB stick specifications with SDG1000, SDG800, SDG5000 or other Siglent equipments but it is sure:
When I have used 4Gb USB2.0 sticks I have not meet any problem. (this is why I keep this still this practice) Knowing what is, is more easy than knowing what is not.
If ask from chinese there need first ask. Then get answer, then ask more accurate, get answer, then after new answer need agen made new question more and more deep details... this iteration loop is endless and finally other or other part gives hands up. It is almost impossible to get a fully comprehensive and precise answer.
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Issues (unsolved)
*SQUARE WAVE GLITCH....
Why this is marked as unsolved?
As far as I know this HW related thing have solved long time ago.
There is NOT Square wave glitch problem. (But there was time ago in some manufacture lots/HW)
There is not Square wave jitter problem.
What there is, is normal quality of square wave what meets specifications and what are quite normal in this circuit principle where square wave is derived from sinewave. Of course time error rise when go more and more low frequencies. (It is 0.1% error in cycle time Typical at 1kHz). This is normal and this is told in specifications and it is natural. Previously there was more this jitter before there was some fine adjust in HW By Siglent.
Square/rectangle wave (just before and up to) start of rise corner and (just before and up to) start of fall corner glitch problem is also HW related and partially origin from same reason with square wave cycle to cycle jitter with low frequencies (long time periods). As far I know these very small changes in HW around square wave PECL comparator have done By Siglent long time ago.
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Images clarify the previous message.
1 .Square wave (using Square function) cycle - cycle jitter. 1kHz.
2. Square wave (using Square function) glitches before rising edge. Zoom 100x
3. Square wave (using Square function) glitches before rising edge. Zoom 1000x
4. Old (January 20, 2013, 06:08:29 PM) EEVBlog member "BlueLaser" image about glitch issue in SDG1020.
This >2 years old hardware issue is totally obsolete but the old news and beliefs circulating over and over again, creating a modified truth.
Today SDG1000 serie is very clean from any major issues in signal quality, building quality or functions. My message to Siglent is: Do not repair a well-functioning device, it can only get worse.
(there is some minor things what can and need do if want it even better but is it WISE to push power for it. Because it IS good or even leader in its price class.)
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I just received my SDG1025. I like the feel of it and it seemed OK until I started playing with the sweep function. It arrived with the latest firmware that I see on the Siglent site, with version 3 bootloader. The sweep function was messed up. It didn't matter which direction I set the sweep, it would always start at the highest frequency set and then ramp down, and then back up again! I played with this for a bit and then got the idea to try and reflash the latest firmware. I was surprised that it actually fixed the problem It now sweeps as per the settings and only in the direction requested, not up and down continuously. The bootloader changed to 5.....
I am now happy with it so far. The output drops a bit as it passes 15MHz but I was too tired to quantify the drop. The sweep seems to be "smooth" enough if the sweep time is set to a realistic time based on the sweep range, lin and log.
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I just received my SDG1025. I like the feel of it and it seemed OK until I started playing with the sweep function. It arrived with the latest firmware that I see on the Siglent site, with version 3 bootloader. The sweep function was messed up. It didn't matter which direction I set the sweep, it would always start at the highest frequency set and then ramp down, and then back up again! I played with this for a bit and then got the idea to try and reflash the latest firmware. I was surprised that it actually fixed the problem It now sweeps as per the settings and only in the direction requested, not up and down continuously. The bootloader changed to 5.....
I am now happy with it so far. The output drops a bit as it passes 15MHz but I was too tired to quantify the drop. The sweep seems to be "smooth" enough if the sweep time is set to a realistic time based on the sweep range, lin and log.
This version of 1.01.01.36R1 what is now downloadable from Siglent there is repaired this terrible mistake what they make in previous version with sweeps. (I do not remember if there was same name R1 short time what was broken, but so or so...this newest 36R1 (Published?2014-11-27) works)
Phase continuing stepping log sweep works now. (perhaps if possible I hope they change it so that with wide freq span sweep it use different step increment math)
New features:
-Channels lock (slave follow master as master freq is changed. There can also be fixed freq offset between master and slave channel or phase offset.)
-Output load setting was previously Hi-Z or 50ohm.
Now if user select this load (previousluy fixed 50ohm) user can adjust load value from 50ohm to 10kohm.
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I just received my SDG1025. I like the feel of it and it seemed OK until I started playing with the sweep function. It arrived with the latest firmware that I see on the Siglent site, with version 3 bootloader. The sweep function was messed up. It didn't matter which direction I set the sweep, it would always start at the highest frequency set and then ramp down, and then back up again! I played with this for a bit and then got the idea to try and reflash the latest firmware. I was surprised that it actually fixed the problem It now sweeps as per the settings and only in the direction requested, not up and down continuously. The bootloader changed to 5.....
I had experienced the same issue. My unit shipped with the 1.01.01.36 firmware and had the sweep issue. Flashing 1.01.01.36R1 fixed the problem, and now it works a treat.
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OK, just measured the frequency response. The claim is that it is within ±0.3db with reference to 100kHz at 5 volt output. There is no mention of what load it is measured with. I made a log sweep and recorded the screen with a 50 ohm load, 100kHz to 25Mhz at 5VPP. That is the first image. It does just meet the spec in this case as it drops by about -0.27db. With a 3VPP output it drops closer to -0.95db, second image.
With no load, or rather 1Megohm scope input, the 5VPP is about +0.21db and so is the 3VPP output setting.
So it does meet its spec, but be aware that the curve changes based on load and output and is closer to 1db out or more worst case.
I will qualify more of the output response over more conditions it a bit more later.
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OK, just measured the frequency response. The claim is that it is within ±0.3db with reference to 100kHz at 5 volt output. There is no mention of what load it is measured with.
"...at 5 volt output. There is no mention of what load it is measured with."
With 50ohm load 5V output is 2.5V.
Here you measure your whole system frequency response, not SDG1000 output freq response.
Your cable+oscilloscope input is not 50ohm true impedance with over 100kHz to 25MHz band. (yes you can put external 50ohm or internal if oscilloscope itself have but it is not pure 50ohm load, not even with 25MHz. Also there is oscilloscope itself freq response. Then, with different measurement you have changed oscilloscope settings so not even these pictures can not compare with each others. If you have reference signal generator what really have flat response over this range you can make reference with it and then compare result with SDG (using exactly same test setup)
Simplified: With your test can not classify SDG1000 output if it is in specs or not with enough true accuracy.
Atteched how it can classify. (also if you have SDG1000 with real calibration certificate it need pass this and other specs in SDG1000 calibration manual when cal lab do measurements for certificate)
(Other method is real professional quality spectrum analyzer with known level accuraacy and flatness (these both (power meters and good spectrum analyzers) mostly have real enough accurate 50ohm impedance instead of only 50ohm DC resistance.)
Edit: Added attachment image how to adjust freq response of SDG1000
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Hmmm, I see what you are saying, but I am not sure I agree that my inline load and cable are not flat enough at 25MHz bandwidth. If what you say is true, then adding another length of cable should show a difference again if the cable is at fault. I will try that tomorrow and see if I get a result that would indicate that my cable and/or load are at fault. I will also do it with the same input settings on the scope.
Please excuse my naivety with this frequency realm as I never really dealt with things like this above 10MHz and sometimes I played with things around 25MHz but not with any precision.
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Hmmm, I see what you are saying, but I am not sure I agree that my inline load and cable are not flat enough at 25MHz bandwidth. If what you say is true, then adding another length of cable should show a difference again if the cable is at fault. I will try that tomorrow and see if I get a result that would indicate that my cable and/or load are at fault. I will also do it with the same input settings on the scope.
Please excuse my naivety with this frequency realm as I never really dealt with things like this above 10MHz and sometimes I played with things around 25MHz but not with any precision.
You can not really check your load impedance with changing cable lenght. You may see some change but can not classify what is really going on. Your test method is somehow ok, this I do not push to garbage. But your test accuracy is not enough for claim if SDG1000 is in specs or not. You can only tell that "my setting this and that show this and that image. But starting claim part of decibels... (I can see there is even 1/100 of dB resolution in your numbers but your system really can not be even close with this needed accuracy)
This next example is not true in this test setup but just for give some weak light for thinking dB's and 0.1dB's and 0.01dB's
Think pure resistance 50ohm (not RLC hybrid)
Then connect 20pF pure capasitance parallel with it.
Next can not exactly do due to many reasons but if we forget phaase etc things and simply think that C is "resistance" with some other than just DC.
Lets look reactance map. With 25MHz this example 20pF reactance is 318 ohms.
(btw with 100kHz it is 79.6 kohm and with 100MHz 79.6ohm)
Lets do deep simplification. 50ohm parallel with 318 ohm is 43.2ohm.
Is your load impedance now 50ohm. Not. What it means with dB's. (you can calculate)
(in real system there may be things what make situation more or less bad due to other R and LC reactances in total setup. Example: Oscilloscope input is RLC hybrid... there is RLC Network what may or may not affect more os less with different frequencies together with cable)
In real life things are much more complex. Due to other reactances of course.
This kind of "simply thinking calculkation" give only imagine what may happend and if it affect lot of or perhaps less. But it is well enough for tell that 0.01dB's are sure total garbage.
Oscilloscope like Rigol (and most of other simplemachines) do have only 50ohm +/- something resistor connected parallel with input by relay. It is not true 50ohm impedance over freq span. HF power meters heads are totally different "animals" and also example good spectrum analyzer inputs. And even more bad it go if we use coaxial T and external 50ohm terminator. Feed thru terminator is some amount better but still there is scope input reactance with it.
My point is only for accuracy. If we talk 0.1dB or even 0.01dB things in flatness your measurement is not valid. Using 50ohm termination and 50ohm cable and oscilloscope is ok for many kind of measurements. But it need understand what kind of error sources it may have. And just forget 0.1dB and 0.01dB thins.
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I just did some more testing and I could not recreate the differences I saw before. I think, perhaps, that the internal relays on the outputs were not making good contact the first few times I did this. Maybe now they are making better contact after a couple of cycles and everything is more stable. I am not even sure the relays I hear inside are on the outputs but there is a difference from yesterday in the performance I see.
Yes I see small differences now between a coax with a termination on the end connected directly to the scope, and the termination directly on the output and sampled with a 10x probe with a BNC adapter.
Either way, I am very happy with this AWG, at least as a function generator. I have yet to still use the AWG function.
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Well another update. I had purchased a 25MHz TCXO to replace the simple crystal as demonstrated in the links in the first post. It is a 0.3ppm TXCO. All went well and apparently it improved the frequency accuracy. Before a 10MHz output would read 10.00014MHz on my frequency counter and 10.0002 on my DS1054Z. Now all three instrument agree on the frequency except the frequency counter shows 1 count out sometimes.
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Well another update. I had purchased a 25MHz TCXO to replace the simple crystal as demonstrated in the links in the first post. It is a 0.3ppm TXCO. All wen well and apparently it improved the frequency accuracy. Before a 10MHz output would read 10.00014MHz on my frequency counter and 10.0002 on my DS1054Z. Now all three instrument agree on the frequency except the frequency counter shows 1 count out sometimes.
Do you have datasheet about this TCXO or manufacturer and model.
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Well another update. I had purchased a 25MHz TCXO to replace the simple crystal as demonstrated in the links in the first post. It is a 0.3ppm TXCO. All wen well and apparently it improved the frequency accuracy. Before a 10MHz output would read 10.00014MHz on my frequency counter and 10.0002 on my DS1054Z. Now all three instrument agree on the frequency except the frequency counter shows 1 count out sometimes.
Do you have datasheet about this TCXO or manufacturer and model.
I bought one of these:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/221589387690 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/221589387690)
only one left, however. (I'm not sure what happened to the picture on ebay, the crystal is marked MDD). Checked it against my calibrated Racal Dana 1992, it was better than .1ppm without adjustment. It works great on my SDG1025.
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This is the one that I purchased:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/141421463923?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT (http://www.ebay.com/itm/141421463923?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT)
The data sheet supplied is below.
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I have been playing around with all my equipment tonight and realized the the rotary knob has a push function. I cannot find any use for this. Anyone?
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Could anyone help me?
I wanted to download the newest firmware for my SDG1025. To do this, you need to register at Siglent.com, but the registration-page will not work for me. When I enter my (correct!) E-Mail-Adress, there will always show up the message "Please enter Correct E-mail!" and I cannot finish the registration procedure. And I cannot find any other workaround to register at siglent.com :-[.
Could anyone help me to register or to find the newest firmware?
Thanks!
Greetings, Jürgen
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Could anyone help me?
I wanted to download the newest firmware for my SDG1025. To do this, you need to register at Siglent.com, but the registration-page will not work for me. When I enter my (correct!) E-Mail-Adress, there will always show up the message "Please enter Correct E-mail!" and I cannot finish the registration procedure. And I cannot find any other workaround to register at siglent.com :-[.
Could anyone help me to register or to find the newest firmware?
Thanks!
Greetings, Jürgen
The USA site is more user friendly.
http://www.siglentamerica.com/gjjrj.aspx?id=15 (http://www.siglentamerica.com/gjjrj.aspx?id=15)
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@tautech
Thank you, but meanwhile rf-loop could help me via PM.
Greetings, Jürgen
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I have been playing around with all my equipment tonight and realized the the rotary knob has a push function. I cannot find any use for this. Anyone?
As far as I know it's unused by any function as of firmware version 1.01.01.36R1.
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I have been playing around with all my equipment tonight and realized the the rotary knob has a push function. I cannot find any use for this. Anyone?
It's useless
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I have been playing around with all my equipment tonight and realized the the rotary knob has a push function. I cannot find any use for this. Anyone?
It's useless
Not since yesterday, has firmware reports:
...
4. Add a knob press also has the role of the function keyboard in store
...
Don't ask me about what that means... ;-)
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/msg628358/#msg628358 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/msg628358/#msg628358)
Cheers.
---
Daniel
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I have been playing around with all my equipment tonight and realized the the rotary knob has a push function. I cannot find any use for this. Anyone?
It's only usable in two places that I've found:
1) Entering a file name, when saving to internal or external memory you can push the knob to select the letter/digit you want to enter.
2) Same thing when entering the license number to upgrade the bandwidth.
It would be nice to see this used elsewhere too.
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I have been playing around with all my equipment tonight and realized the the rotary knob has a push function. I cannot find any use for this. Anyone?
It's only usable in two places that I've found:
1) Entering a file name, when saving to internal or external memory you can push the knob to select the letter/digit you want to enter.
2) Same thing when entering the license number to upgrade the bandwidth.
It would be nice to see this used elsewhere too.
Not even that used to work a couple of months back. I wonder what took them so long... ::) :palm:
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Hi, I just got a new SDG830 today. One of the jobs I wanted it for was to setup an HF radio receiver, using some fixed value external attenuators I can get a useful output level and the FM, AM DSB are great, but it seems you cant have a modulated output whilst varying the output level(with the knob), I have to keep changing between screens to set the level, then turn the modulation back on. Am I missing something? or is there just no way to wind the output up and down whilst its modulated (I only used an analogue sig. gen. for this job before).
Apart from this it seems to be a great unit, good build and user interface.
Cheers.
Brett.
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Am I missing something? or is there just no way to wind the output up and down whilst its modulated (I only used an analogue sig. gen. for this job before).
Yes, I think you're missing something. I have a SDG1025 which I think should be identical to 830 with the exception of an additional channel. Once you're turned on the modulation press the waveform key (SIN, SQUARE, etc.) then press the amplitude key. Now you can adjust the amplitude with the knob and the left/right arrow keys as needed.
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Hi, I just got a new SDG830 today. One of the jobs I wanted it for was to setup an HF radio receiver, using some fixed value external attenuators I can get a useful output level and the FM, AM DSB are great, but it seems you cant have a modulated output whilst varying the output level(with the knob), I have to keep changing between screens to set the level, then turn the modulation back on. Am I missing something? or is there just no way to wind the output up and down whilst its modulated (I only used an analogue sig. gen. for this job before).
Apart from this it seems to be a great unit, good build and user interface.
Cheers.
Brett.
To change the amplitude of the modulated signal you have to go back to the unmodulated signal. I know, it's a big oversight. I think there is no space left on the screen for it. Perhaps you could build some variable attenuators for it?
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Hope someone here can offer advice.
Got a second hand (no warranty) SDG1025. When I bought it looked like a brand new :) (original box, still in the original plastic bag neatly packed).
Got the latest Firmware (37R2) installed, did the "Self Test" and "Self Calibration", but still have the same problem - there is no signal on any output, just some DC value that I can change changing the offset value, but can't find direct relationship between the offset value selected and offset value actually measured.
And yes, I did turn the CH1/CH2 on :) I only tested Sin Wave, just guessing it will be the same with other wave forms.
Counter does not register anything connected to CH2 either.
I'm getting ready to open the box and check some of test points listed in the Service Manual, but information there is very limited, so I hope some of you on this board can offer some suggestions what to do/try.
Thanks!
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I'd check the power supplies and signal path. Just follow the components from the output connector. A lot of equipment can be repaired with a scope and some persistance.
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Hope someone here can offer advice.
Got a second hand (no warranty) SDG1025. When I bought it looked like a brand new :) (original box, still in the original plastic bag neatly packed).
Got the latest Firmware (37R2) installed, did the "Self Test" and "Self Calibration", but still have the same problem - there is no signal on any output, just some DC value that I can change changing the offset value, but can't find direct relationship between the offset value selected and offset value actually measured.
And yes, I did turn the CH1/CH2 on :) I only tested Sin Wave, just guessing it will be the same with other wave forms.
Counter does not register anything connected to CH2 either.
I'm getting ready to open the box and check some of test points listed in the Service Manual, but information there is very limited, so I hope some of you on this board can offer some suggestions what to do/try.
Thanks!
Please put your country flag in your profile.
How long have you had this unit?
You say it has no warranty but Siglent has a 3 yr warranty, is it older than this?
IIRC they have a Default setting, have you tried it?
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Am I missing something? or is there just no way to wind the output up and down whilst its modulated (I only used an analogue sig. gen. for this job before).
Yes, I think you're missing something. I have a SDG1025 which I think should be identical to 830 with the exception of an additional channel. Once you're turned on the modulation press the waveform key (SIN, SQUARE, etc.) then press the amplitude key. Now you can adjust the amplitude with the knob and the left/right arrow keys as needed.
Thanks for that! Works exactly as you say, makes tuning up a receiver much easier. Now I am even happier with my new toy :D
Cheers!
Brett.
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I'd check the power supplies and signal path. Just follow the components from the output connector. A lot of equipment can be repaired with a scope and some persistance.
Will give it a try. TO my surprise I found the Service Manual on their web site - will sure help opening the box and finding test points to begin with
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Please put your country flag in your profile.
How long have you had this unit?
You say it has no warranty but Siglent has a 3 yr warranty, is it older than this?
IIRC they have a Default setting, have you tried it?
Was in a hurry to find the password so I posted without being logged in. Location Chicago, IL.
Got the unit second hand, in original box, looked like never opened before, but no proof of purchase/invoice in the box. The company that went belly up sold bunch of stuff without spending time on making a future owner covered :)
I did the "Default" settings as well, not much help.
I sent an e-mail to Siglent US and got response within couple of hours asking for some additional details. If they won't take it as unit under the warranty, I'll take a look inside some time the next week
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Please put your country flag in your profile.
How long have you had this unit?
You say it has no warranty but Siglent has a 3 yr warranty, is it older than this?
IIRC they have a Default setting, have you tried it?
Was in a hurry to find the password so I posted without being logged in. Location Chicago, IL.
Got the unit second hand, in original box, looked like never opened before, but no proof of purchase/invoice in the box. The company that went belly up sold bunch of stuff without spending time on making a future owner covered :)
I did the "Default" settings as well, not much help.
I sent an e-mail to Siglent US and got response within couple of hours asking for some additional details. If they won't take it as unit under the warranty, I'll take a look inside some time the next week
Serial number prefix tell time of manufacturing.
You can leave 3 last digits out and previous digits tell time (I think Siglent know even manufacture "lot" with this)
Corrected typemismatch: Of course 4 digits.
Do not yet update FW before check how old it is out from box
What are FW and HW versions what it display just out from box?
This is if can suspect that this unit have been very long time untouched in this company stock. SDG1000 series was first lauched March, 2011.
In this case there is perhaps very old FW and these very very old FW's perhaps need intermediate update(s) before current available FW's. (I'm still surprised that Siglent do not warn about it on the download side, perhaps they believe there can not be so old units without updated FW)
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Serial number prefix tell time of manufacturing.
You can leave 3 last digits out and previous digits tell time (I think Siglent know even manufacture "lot" with this)
Do not yet update FW before check how old it is out from box
What are FW and HW versions what it display just out from box?
This is if can suspect that this unit have been very long time untouched in this company stock. SDG1000 series was first lauched March, 2011.
In this case there is perhaps very old FW and these very very old FW's perhaps need intermediate update(s) before current available FW's. (I'm still surprised that Siglent do not warn about it on the download side, perhaps they believe there can not be so old units without updated FW)
In regards to checking the old FW version, too late, got it flashed first thing out of box.
S/N dos not match what you have mentioned - it's SDG00003130618.
Holographic sticker is still there, intact.
Here are current versions
BootStrap No: 46
Software version: 1.01.01.37R2
Hardware version: 02-00-00-23-24
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Does the serial number on screen match the serial number printed on the instrument?
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Does the serial number on screen match the serial number printed on the instrument?
It does
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Serial number prefix tell time of manufacturing.
You can leave 3 last digits out and previous digits tell time (I think Siglent know even manufacture "lot" with this)
Do not yet update FW before check how old it is out from box
What are FW and HW versions what it display just out from box?
This is if can suspect that this unit have been very long time untouched in this company stock. SDG1000 series was first lauched March, 2011.
In this case there is perhaps very old FW and these very very old FW's perhaps need intermediate update(s) before current available FW's. (I'm still surprised that Siglent do not warn about it on the download side, perhaps they believe there can not be so old units without updated FW)
In regards to checking the old FW version, too late, got it flashed first thing out of box.
S/N dos not match what you have mentioned - it's SDG00003130618.
Holographic sticker is still there, intact.
Here are current versions
BootStrap No: 46
Software version: 1.01.01.37R2
Hardware version: 02-00-00-23-24
SN indicates to me it was built in March 2013.....It's still under Warranty.
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SN indicates to me it was built in March 2013.....It's still under Warranty.
Now I see - the last 4 digits taken out gives "313" (as in March 2013) - I did with 3 last digits, got 3130, did not know what to do with it :)
Got the unit second hand through liquidation sale, don't have sales receipt, will see if Siglent US will honor the warranty in my case. Will wait till I open it up and take a look on my own, for now :)
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I wouldn't open it, why risk Siglent honouring the warranty and you benefiting with a perfectly good working unit.
BTW did you pay much for it?
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In regards to checking the old FW version, too late, got it flashed first thing out of box.
S/N dos not match what you have mentioned - it's SDG00003130618.
Holographic sticker is still there, intact.
Here are current versions
BootStrap No: 46
Software version: 1.01.01.37R2
Hardware version: 02-00-00-23-24
Manufactured 2013. It means that there can not be factory installed some these very old FW what perhaps need intermediate update before go to later FW's. (it was perhaps something like 1.01.01.13 or something other under 1.01.01.30, in some very very old FW there was also very poor contrast in TFT due to some wrong parameters)
Bootstrap 46. Perhaps ypu have not powered up it so many times.
After factory you start it first time it is 1. (After Siglent original new package I have noted boot up counter is alwaqys treseted. (I do not know how they reset it after factory tests and factory calibration)
When I sell to customers it is (typically) between 10-25 due to my own >24-48h "burn in" run with many thermal cycles and after then tests.
46 looks like it have used some amount after factory.
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I wouldn't open it, why risk Siglent honouring the warranty and you benefiting with a perfectly good working unit.
BTW did you pay much for it?
I'll wait :)
Can't tell exactly as I bought together with some other equipment as a package.
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Bootstrap 46. Perhaps ypu have not powered up it so many times.
After factory you start it first time it is 1. (After Siglent original new package I have noted boot up counter is alwaqys treseted. (I do not know how they reset it after factory tests and factory calibration)
When I sell to customers it is (typically) between 10-25 due to my own >24-48h "burn in" run with many thermal cycles and after then tests.
46 looks like it have used some amount after factory.
OTOH units I supply, I only usually power up only once to confirm to myself they are operating correctly knowing that some factory "burn in" has occured.
For anyone with a "new toy" probably 10- 20 power cycles would be expected initially, but from a lab it might get used more frequently than a hobbyist would and if their are a number of technicians the could have easily mad up that number of start in a few months.
I know for much of my gear most of the start #'s are from answering questions on EEVblog not real work.
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Bootstrap 46. Perhaps ypu have not powered up it so many times.
After factory you start it first time it is 1. (After Siglent original new package I have noted boot up counter is alwaqys treseted. (I do not know how they reset it after factory tests and factory calibration)
When I sell to customers it is (typically) between 10-25 due to my own >24-48h "burn in" run with many thermal cycles and after then tests.
46 looks like it have used some amount after factory.
OTOH units I supply, I only usually power up only once to confirm to myself they are operating correctly knowing that some factory "burn in" has occured.
OTOH continue.
Yes I believe factory do something like 24 hour burn in. But I have not any proofment they do it for every single unit and that they also do check/factory cal after it.
Before I have worked with some higher level manufacturer and there they did 48 hour real "burn in" and more "fun" also this burn in was in made in very big oven using specified maximum temperature + some marginal over, where conveyor lines and elevaors moving and trasporting whole aging time in queye like "FIFO". Whole burn in (aging) test was fully automatised and system drop out units what did not pass or fails in burn in. (I made this aging system automation for this company somewhere beginning of 90's ) We know this electronics failure "bathtub curve".
24 hour aging is not enough and mofre bad if this is just one power up cycle. It need turn on and off several times for teperature cycles (it made also mechanical stress example for big BGA chips.)
(Here I can say that with Owon I did allways 72hour burn in (aging) using also mechanical shocks and external heating, until I get enough experience and drop it to 48hour)
Reason why I do is that I do not want that any single customer get lemon. If equipmen have survived my test, probability to failure in first months and years is much less than without this. Also, this I can do because I do not sell for for get money for living. I have enough.
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Just got a SDG1025 in, and it seems really nicely made for the price. No disappointments at all so far! :-+ Can't wait to tear into it this weekend! RF-Loop - I see the SDG 800 had very good THD numbers. Did you try the same with the SDG1000 units?
also, I read that the SDG800 does better with square waves at lower freq due to a different approach. Are their other negative hits for using the SDG800's square wave approach, or pluses for using the SDG1000 comparator approach?
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I was also impressed with the low distortion from the SDG800 series. The SDG1000 series doesn't do as well. I measured my SDG1005 using my Tektronix AA501 distortion analyzer (residual distortion .0008%, 100khz bandwidth, RMS reading).
Output #1:
1khz frequency @ 1 volt RMS: .0879% THD+N
1khz frequency @ 6.5volt RMS, (max. output, 600 ohm ref.): .0569% THD+N
Output #2:
1khz frequency @1 volt RMS: .0758% THD+N
1khz frequency @1.958 volt RMS, (max. output, 600 ohm ref.): .0381% THD+N
Interesting that the number two output has lower distortion. The drive circuit, although lower in output, appears cleaner. I wish I could get my hands on an SDG 800 unit to compare/corroborate RF-Loops findings, using my setup.
Here is a screen shot of the residual distortion output of the analyzer for the output #1 at full output.
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That is rather interesting, as I was led to believe that the SDG1000 models were the better units. Perhaps the 800's are the ones to get? Do they have any disadvantages other than being single channel? I've read another report showing figures much the same as yours. It would be nice to see both units tested together as you suggest.
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Well, I suppose "better" depends on your perspective and needs. The SDG1000 series has been around longer, but has two independent (or couple-able, phase shiftable) outputs. The SDG800 series uses newer technology borrowed from the SDG5000 series generators (Easypulse), but with a single output. I personally don't expect to use a function generator for distortion measurements, so the higher distortion is acceptable to me (my old analog B&K FG had a THD rating of .5%, so things are much improved, in any case). Level flatness is as good as my Tektronix FG and SG generators, so no complaint there. I guess if you want the low distortion, and output flexibility, with a Siglent, you have to go to the SDG5000 series.
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Yeah, your right. The 1000 numbers aren't that bad, just a little disappointing after seeing how great the cheaper 800 did......
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Hmmmm.
I was kinda expecting a cleaner square wave? This was at 4Vpp and 1MHZ.
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Geez! Nevermind. :palm:
A proper 50ohm cable rather than 75, and setting the DSO to a 50ohm termination seems to have neatened up the square wave rather nicely.
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Here some test results from THD measurements.
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x2/aghp55/Siglent-mk/SDG800-1000-5000-HP-THD-800s.png)
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Thank you this is great info. Now we need the Rigol 1022 to get the whole picture! ;)
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I can create a dc signal on my sdg1010. Can I use this as a power supply for my small and low voltage (0 -5V) electronic (breadboard) experiments?
Is it short circuit protected?
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The output always has a 50 Ohm series resistance so you can't really use the generator as a DC power supply. The accuracy is also limited because 50 Ohms is rather high.
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Is it short circuit protected?
Yes, you can drive what ever SDG800/SDG1000/SDG5000 signal from its output to what ever load impedance, including zero impedance (short circuit).
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Yes, you can drive what ever SDG800/SDG1000/SDG5000 signal from its output to what ever load impedance, including zero impedance (short circuit).
The output always has a 50 Ohm series resistance so you can't really use the generator as a DC power supply. The accuracy is also limited because 50 Ohms is rather high.
rf-loop,
For the sake of correctness, I need to "amend" your comment with nctnico's - in an ideal case, the "power supply" (usually meant as a constant voltage source) should have zero ohm output resistance (impedance). With 50 ohm that SDG provides, any fluctuation in output current will cause fluctuation in the supply voltage.
If the circuity using this supply with 50 ohm output resistance draws (for example) between 10mA and 60mA from the power supply, the supply voltage (SDG output) will have fluctuations of (at least) 2.5V !!!
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Here some test results from THD measurements.
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x2/aghp55/Siglent-mk/SDG800-1000-5000-HP-THD-800s.png)
Thank you, RF loop for the great comparison info. Two things stuck out for me. One is the relatively poor (not bad, just worse than the SDG800) performance of the SDG5000 series. I would have expected better, since I assumed it had the generator design (Easywave) the SDG800 series was based on. Obviously some other circuit differences coming into play. The other thing is the distortion characteristics of the SDG1000 series seems to hint that most of it is in the low harmonics. Adding more harmonics to the Keithley measurement FFT did not seem to cause a dramatic increase in the THD reading. I might try some more tests with filtering and FFT analysis to see what the distortion components are. :-+
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The other thing is the distortion characteristics of the SDG1000 series seems to hint that most of it is in the low harmonics. Adding more harmonics to the Keithley measurement FFT did not seem to cause a dramatic increase in the THD reading. I might try some more tests with filtering and FFT analysis to see what the distortion components are. :-+
Perhaps you have seen these old tests about SDG1000 series.
These are not just for audio raange but there is also some spectrum images what may tell something about audio freq range.
At this time my HP8568B is not just now available for tests (my workshop is under work/renew/move and it is not ready and not time for it just now). Also it is not very good for audio range but better than nothing.
http://siglent.freeforums.org/tests-updated-siglent-sdg1000-function-arbitrary-wfm-gen-t5.html (http://siglent.freeforums.org/tests-updated-siglent-sdg1000-function-arbitrary-wfm-gen-t5.html)
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Ah, yes! I do remember reading through your posting there when I was researching the Siglent AWGs, pre-purchase.
This 1 kHz plot here:
http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x2/aghp55/plot0036_1k.gif (http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x2/aghp55/plot0036_1k.gif)
(I hope you don't mind my "quoting" your screen shot), very clearly shows the relatively strong first even and odd harmonics. Pretty quiet up-frequency from there. Interesting! Even so, the first even harmonic is around -62db, so very respectable
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I can create a dc signal on my sdg1010. Can I use this as a power supply for my small and low voltage (0 -5V) electronic (breadboard) experiments?
Is it short circuit protected?
Essentially, the output of the function generator has a 49 ohm resistor in series. I *think* short-circuiting the output to ground couldn't damagae the output amplifier nor the resistor, but I need somebody to confirm this.
You can use it as a bias voltage for an up-amp or transistor, or something small like that, but I wouldn't power an entire project with it. Even batteries are better than that.
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Essentially, the output of the function generator has a 49 ohm resistor in series. I *think* short-circuiting the output to ground couldn't damagae the output amplifier nor the resistor, but I need somebody to confirm this.
No need think and guess. It have been known all time after Siglent have launched this SDG.
1.
It reads here:
Waveform Output: Impedance 50?(typical)
Protection short-circuit protection.
Same information can find also in SDG1000 service manual specifications.
2.
It reads also here:
Yes, you can drive what ever SDG800/SDG1000/SDG5000 signal from its output to what ever load impedance, including zero impedance (short circuit).
What kind of confirmation you need?
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I just couldn't remember the name of the output amplifier chips,so that I could look up the datasheet, but yours is enough confirmation.
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I just couldn't remember the name of the output amplifier chips,so that I could look up the datasheet, but yours is enough confirmation.
Output amplifiers:
CH1
Ti THS3095
CH2
Intersil EL5166ISZ
Both outputs have 49.9ohm series resisor after amplifier.
Simplified
CH1 Amp out -- (2x49R9 parallel) -- (2x49R9 parallel) -- BNC
CH2 Amp out -- 49R9 -- BNC
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That's it! Thank you very much.
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Hello,
Could anyone verify for me the following issue?
Setting duty to value different than 50% does not affect the shape of the square wave.
... or it is just my lack of knowledge ... |O
rgs,
M
SDG1005, firmware 37R2.
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Hello,
Could anyone verify for me the following issue?
Setting duty to value different than 50% does not affect the shape of the square wave.
... or it is just my lack of knowledge ... |O
rgs,
M
SDG1005, firmware 37R2.
Welcome to the forum.
By definition a square wave is symetrical, Hi & Lo being the same time duration. A square wave however can be "offset" and be "riding" on an applied voltage.
What you describe is a "pulse" that can be a continious stream or "triggered" as a single pulse.
It can also be offset and adjusted for: Hi, Lo, and frequency (length of period).
So:
A 50% duty cycle pulse IS a square wave. ;)
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Hello,
Could anyone verify for me the following issue?
Setting duty to value different than 50% does not affect the shape of the square wave.
... or it is just my lack of knowledge ... |O
rgs,
M
SDG1005, firmware 37R2.
Squar wave 20-80% works here (SDG1025, Firmware latest - i think 37R2). If Siglent is reading this: Please save the language setting, I don't think anybody likes that new "Please Select Language" feature on every single bootup wether it's in mode "last" or "default".
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There has been much discussion on this "feature" lately:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/msg631583/#msg631583 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/msg631583/#msg631583)
Until it changes, just ignore it and proceed with using the equipment, ANY control button or knob will override the boot up language selection menu.
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tautech:
Thanks alot for a quick reply and warm welcoming !
I absolutely agree - a 50% duty cycle pulse IS a square wave :)
However I would expected the behaviour can be observed at the screen of generator ;)
Owen:
Thank you!
... but now I do not understand. Did not work for me with 36R1 as well ...
Do you confirm the change of the duty value anyhow - any button, whatever ?
M
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I absolutely agree - a 50% duty cycle pulse IS a square wave :)
However I would expected the behaviour can be observed at the screen of generator ;)
Glad to see WE think alike, but it'll be this way for "general" acceptance.
Please put your country flag in your profile, it really helps when you need local advice. ;)
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Thanks again tautech.
besides, something I'd like to share with all of you - if already not noticed somewhere on forum. With the newest version of the firmware (i.e. 37R2), the tool button gives another space for improvement - bandwidth update. It seems that everything we need is ... a license key ;)
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besides, something I'd like to share with all of you - if already not noticed somewhere on forum. With the newest version of the firmware (i.e. 37R2), the tool button gives another space for improvement - bandwidth update. It seems that everything we need is ... a license key ;)
Yes it has been spotted. :)
AFAIK it is for future functionality.
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Hello,
Could anyone verify for me the following issue?
Setting duty to value different than 50% does not affect the shape of the square wave.
... or it is just my lack of knowledge ... |O
rgs,
M
SDG1005, firmware 37R2.
User Manual pages 23 - 25.
With SDG1005 you can set Square wave dyty between 20% to 80%.
(definition for Square wave is 50% but using this function can also do other rectangle waves where duty is not 50%)
If it really do not work, it is possible that this function have example hardware failure.
It need carefully test.
SDG1000 service manual:
Duty Cycle Verification for Square. Page 26.
(I have never seen this failure but I know how this part of circuit works)
Other discussing is if name Square is good or not for this function.
In real it is Rectangle function where special case is Square wave. Rectangle wave with exactly 50% duty is Square wave, what is also SDG's default.
I think Siglent is not alone with this name of this function.
But, please check carefully if it works ok or not. If not, suspected is hardware failure.
What ever is failure type, if it do not work, it is warranty failure case and you need try first contact seller.
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SDG1000 service manual:
Duty Cycle Verification for Square. Page 26.
Where is this service manual? I read it was on the Siglent disk, but no dice?
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SDG1000 service manual:
Duty Cycle Verification for Square. Page 26.
Where is this service manual? I read it was on the Siglent disk, but no dice?
See the first post of this thread.
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Issues (unsolved)
*SQUARE WAVE GLITCH (in brief, the work-aroundis to use the pulse function when working at low frequencies, either that or a hardware mod): https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1020-arbitrary-fungen-first-impressions-and-a-possible-signal-glitch/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1020-arbitrary-fungen-first-impressions-and-a-possible-signal-glitch/)
In the first message in this thread there is still this claim.
Why this totally obsolete disinformation information is still there? This issue is solved long time ago By Siglent.
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rf-lloop:
Square or Rectangle? There is no my ambition here to work on taxonomy area issues :-)
Just wanted to know if anyone have experienced the issue mentioned ealier - if so, in consequence, to be a proof that is related with firmware bug.
By the way, reading a manual is always a good idea - especially when everything other fails. Yes, I already did follow the methods described in manual - unsuccessfully (ie. "Use the keypad or the knob to input the desired value, choose the unit, and press the corresponding button. The generator will change the waveform immediately.").
Does not affect on the wave neither immediately nor with delay.
To be honest is hard to believe it is a hardware issue - this is an arbitrary type generator.
Anyway, thanks for your assistance ... :)
M
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Hello,
Could anyone verify for me the following issue?
Setting duty to value different than 50% does not affect the shape of the square wave.
... or it is just my lack of knowledge ... |O
rgs,
M
SDG1005, firmware 37R2.
SDG1010 FW 37R2
AWG square wave behaves as expected, select Duty and use either keypad or rotary knob to adjust Duty cycle between 20 & 80 %.
Confirmed on display and with scope.
Try Utilitiy>System>Set to Default and then set the AWG to your desired setup again.
Let us know if that works.
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rf-lloop:
To be honest is hard to believe it is a hardware issue - this is an arbitrary type generator.
Anyway, thanks for your assistance ... :)
M
It is arbitrary generator, yes.
But I know how Square function signal is produced in SDG1000 series.
All units what I have tested with all firmwares this Duty % adjustment have worked and also works with unit what I have in my own demo use.
Square wave works internally so that it still produce Sine wave! But in this function internal Sinewave do not go to output amplifiers. It go to PECL comparator. Other input of comparator get this Sine and other input get adjustable DC for duty adjust. When DC is middle of sinewave p-p it produce 50% Duty square out and this signal go to output stages.
Pulse function, what also produce rectangle, can also produce 50% duty rectangle signal what is square wave.
Using Pulse function signal is produced totally different way directly by DAC. In many cases (and up to Pulse mode freq top limit, it is perhaps best mode for produce square wave and if want, set it for Duty %, so changing frequency do not affect duty.
Both methods have some advantages and disadvantages.
If Square function produce without any problem always 50% duty square independent of Duty setting it tell least to me that PECL do not work right or PECL do not get adjustable treshold voltage and problem is there and of course failure can be many kind of, some component, some PCB issue etc.... rare but possible.
I have experience with these equipments and have also warranty time repair service and I have also repaired these units in some rare cases. (example in old case when Siglent factory have accidentally installed wrong type of CH2 output ampliviers.) Also I have investigated quite deeply this Square function circuits due to fact that old times there was this "famous" glitch" issue what also was extremely pure hardware issue due to wrong setting of PECL comparator hysteresis setting (+ some cases also internal sinewave noise.) (both of these have been long time ago solved By Siglent)
Of course also FW may do same thing if there is problem with DAC driving what produce adjustable DC to PECL for square duty setting. But as told, I have not yet seen any FW version with this bug. So, if this do not work, my susppect is HW failure.
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About SDG800 series.
It have, as all SDG models, Sync out signal.
Sync Out signal (front panel BNC) is qquite fast rising and falling bit over 50ns wide pulse.
Its true rise and fall time is roughly 1.2ns or even bit less.
Signal output impedance is 50ohm and signal level is over 2V (load 50ohm impedance)
Sync Out is limited to work down to 500ns signal cycle period (up to 2MHz).
It is also useful if you need this kind of signal (fixed level, fixed width but frequency nearly zero - up to 2MHz.
Its fast risetime may be some times useful. (it produce lot of high freq harmonics and this group of harmonics may be useful for some works.
It may be useful to know how this Sync Out signal time position is related with CH1 signal output with different functions/modes.
It is somehow explained here (http://siglent.freeforums.org/sdg800-sync-out-signal-how-it-works-t128.html)
(partially under work and I do not know when they all are ready. Time is not renewable resource and I have it only limited amount.)
attached one sample
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stepping back to sdg100 issue for a moment ... closing of the raised issue.
tautech:
The brilliant idea (with setting to defaults) but I have failed with all exercises, using both channels. Including trial with firmware R31.
rf-loop:
Your detailed explanation convinced me - it can be the hw failure. No doubts.
The good news is that the other functions/options I have already checked seems to be operational. :)
I think I will have to survive using your workaround - pulse signal.
Many thanks to you both!
I will stay tuned with this thread - it is very valuable ...
Marek
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Has anyone heard how/when/if the bandwidth upgrade keys can be purchased and how much?
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Has anyone heard how/when/if the bandwidth upgrade keys can be purchased and how much?
I have asked Siglent exactly this.
They indicate it is for "future" use.
All we can do for now is wait for an announcement for use of this feature.
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I bet the cost will be just a little bit less than the difference in the model prices originally. I also wonder if the upgrade process will open the firmware to the same kind of hack as the Rigol scopes. Maybe they are working on locking it down before anyone here gets their hands on it.
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Siglent is already using license-key enabled options on the SDS2000 oscilloscopes. No doubt someone will come up with a hack some day.
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I bet the cost will be just a little bit less than the difference in the model prices originally. I also wonder if the upgrade process will open the firmware to the same kind of hack as the Rigol scopes. Maybe they are working on locking it down before anyone here gets their hands on it.
Siglent hat off.
Of course we all are aware of this "business model", similar is happening with Hantek, but often I've wondered when hackers might devote their energy/s to Siglent products. Product families from most manufacturers appear to have common HW so it follows that BW is set at factory by programming.
rf-loop has indicated there are differences in the SDG1000 series with componentry tolerances and that dictates the final BW selected at factory. However this may have been addressed to allow a wider range of BW to be programmed after manufacture. :-//
Don't discount a HW revision either, that permits BW upgrade over the full 1000 series range, that HW might omit the cooling fan in the higher BW models.
As they say: "time will tell".
Siglent hat on.
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Do these mods:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/looking-for-reasonable-dds-function-gererator-need-opinions-please/msg579056/#msg579056 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/looking-for-reasonable-dds-function-gererator-need-opinions-please/msg579056/#msg579056)
void the 3 years warranty?
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Do these mods:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/looking-for-reasonable-dds-function-gererator-need-opinions-please/msg579056/#msg579056 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/looking-for-reasonable-dds-function-gererator-need-opinions-please/msg579056/#msg579056)
void the 3 years warranty?
How it can be unclear?
Where is factory who keep still warranty valid if someone have opened product and done some DIY works inside equipment. How they can be responsible about failures after this. There is many things, even ESD what may damage equipment if not any other thing. After ESD it even may work normally and after hours or weeks it may accidentally fail just because in history it have get ESD. Of course people may have even more than enough knowledge, experience and skills for do work but how factory really know it and how they can trust it and keep warranty still valid. It is like name and sign on blanko paper.
http://siglenteu.com/shfw.aspx (http://siglenteu.com/shfw.aspx)
5. The warranty is void if:
(1) Accidental damage occurs during transportation (please confer with insurance agency or transportation company on the compensation).
(2) Malfunction or damage is caused by misuse according to warnings in the product documentation or using or storing in an environment outside of the specification’s limits.
(3) Surface damage by manmade factors, like burn, distortion by force, etc.
(4) Repaired by anyone who is not from SIGLENT Maintenance Center or an authorized maintenance branch.
(5) Accident damage caused by using a power cord or a power adapter not approved by SIGLENT.
(6) Malfunction or damage caused by natural calamities, like earthquake, lightning strike, etc.
I do not know what is official answer for this particular question but my opinion is: This is the same thing as in the fourth paragraph above.
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Issues (unsolved)
*SQUARE WAVE GLITCH (in brief, the work-aroundis to use the pulse function when working at low frequencies, either that or a hardware mod): https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1020-arbitrary-fungen-first-impressions-and-a-possible-signal-glitch/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1020-arbitrary-fungen-first-impressions-and-a-possible-signal-glitch/)
In the first message in this thread there is still this claim.
Why this totally obsolete disinformation information is still there? This issue is solved long time ago By Siglent.
It's a hardware problem, it's not like Siglent will come to my house to fix it. I will re-word it and place it in the solved section, but still, there are units out there with the problem.
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2 items of interest that should be included in this thread.
Siglent announcement of Labview drivers:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/msg656874/#msg656874 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/msg656874/#msg656874)
SPA1010 Power Amp for Siglent SDG waveform generators:
http://www.siglent.com/ENs/prodcut-fjxx.aspx?fjid=1071&id=145&tid=16&T=2 (http://www.siglent.com/ENs/prodcut-fjxx.aspx?fjid=1071&id=145&tid=16&T=2)
User Manual
http://www.siglent.com/2014EnglishWebsite/Documents/UserManual/SPA1000_UserManual_UM60010-E01A.pdf (http://www.siglent.com/2014EnglishWebsite/Documents/UserManual/SPA1000_UserManual_UM60010-E01A.pdf)
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Just got a sdg1020 as a bit of a repair project, you mention old version and new version. What is the difference and what was the serial number break. Thanks for any responses :-)
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Just got a sdg1020 as a bit of a repair project, you mention old version and new version. What is the difference and what was the serial number break. Thanks for any responses :-)
Repair?
What are the fault symptoms?
Siglent products have a 3 year warranty, post all but the last 4 SN digits, from that we can tell the build date, it may still be under warranty.
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Hi tautech,
Thanks for getting back, will post a full fault report when I am more awake tomorrow. Bit tired... :=\
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Just picked up the SDG805. Very nice unit! Nothing on it feels cheap. The "MOD" menu took a bit of getting used to, but otherwise everything on the GUI is pretty easy to understand. Outstanding value. I also appreciate it being FANLESS and SILENT.
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How hot the SDG1010s get? Mine gets fairly hot on the outside. Ambient temperature is 32C
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How hot the SDG1010s get? Mine gets fairly hot on the outside. Ambient temperature is 32C
I thought you got your digits swapped around there, then noticed your country ;D
I have the SDG1025 and haven't noticed it running hot, but it does have a fan. I know some of the lower bandwidth models don't have the fan fitted, perhaps it would be wise to fit one in your environment?
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How hot the SDG1010s get? Mine gets fairly hot on the outside. Ambient temperature is 32C
I doubt it will be a problem as it's often that warm in Shenzhen were they're designed.
But with out accurate measurements of internal temps who knows. :-//
I've never noticed my 1010 AWG get more than barely warm, but a hot day here is only 28C. :phew:
What settings was it running at the time?
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Yes, summer is hell around here...
I was generating a simple 32kHz 1Vpp sine wave. The output was slightly loaded but at that voltage that would be in the milliwatts.
A fan wouldn't be a bad idea, when the warranty expires.
Sent from my XT1063 using Tapatalk
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Hi,
I just got a SDG1025 SDG1050 unit from Eurofox and was wondering if I should update the firmware. Currently my unit has the .27 version. Is it advisable to update to the latest or does this generate 'mo problems'?
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I have modified my SDG1025 with a TCXO as described in another part of this thread. My TCXO has a stated accuracy of ±0.3ppm. When I use the counter to measure the output of my Rubidium standard I see a maximum error of 0.2ppm. My TCXO is a 50% duty cycle type. The question is, does the SDG1025 need a 50% duty cycle or will it work with a 40/60 duty cycle? Does it use the clock duty cycle as reference for its duty cycle or does it only use the full cycle as a reference? Anyone know?
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Do you own another function generator with a 10MHz input? That would be the easiest way to check. Input a signal like that and check the oscilloscope for any obvious jitter caused by that.
Sent from my XT1063 using Tapatalk
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Hi,
I just got a SDG1025 SDG1050 unit from Eurofox and was wondering if I should update the firmware. Currently my unit has the .27 version. Is it advisable to update to the latest or does this generate 'mo problems'?
Here's the latest:
http://siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDG1000-V100R001B01D01P37R2.zip (http://siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDG1000-V100R001B01D01P37R2.zip)
One of the latest criticisms is they always boot with the language selection options up first, not a real problem once you have set your language, just hit any other button to bypass the language menu.
I'm sure we'd all like Siglent to change it to default to "last" so we'll have to keep nagging them until they do. ;)
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Do you own another function generator with a 10MHz input? That would be the easiest way to check. Input a signal like that and check the oscilloscope for any obvious jitter caused by that.
No, I only have a rubidium clock and that is 50% too. Although it does have a 60MHz signal internally that I might be able to bodge a divider with unequal duty cycle......
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Run a microcontroller with the Rb clock, and use the PWM module to create a wave of that duty cycle. The frequency will not be 10MHz but you don't need absolute accuracy.
Sent from my XT1063 using Tapatalk
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If you divide 60 by 3 and then by 2 you'll get a 50% square wave.
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Unfortunately I don't have any controllers to program right now.
I am looking for a for a permanent solution internal to the instrument. I already use my rubidium standard as an external reference but would like a better internal solution for the SDG1025.
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@tautech:
Any news yet on after purchase upgrades to higher bandwidth?
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Just a heads up. At a 30.3C ambient temperature I measured (by sticking a thermocouple in the side ventilation holes, making no contact with anything) a temperature of 43.5 degrees C on the BNC side of the unit and a temperature of 48.5C on the LCD sode of the instrument.
That temperature, 48.5C quite high for a case, in my opinion. That's probably coming from the power supply section of the instrument. It's going to affect the capacitors in the long term and could overload the MOSFETs in the switching section of the SMPS if I ever stress the instrument too much.
My unit could really use a fan. I'll probably add one when the warranty expires. And I will keep the case clear of obstructions.
You tell me... Does that sound like a very high system temperature for an instrument design like this one? In a car, this temperature would be normal, but this is sort of a benchtop instrument (yes, there are rack mounts for industrial use, but I don't think it is that robust, really, you tell me...).
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@tautech:
Any news yet on after purchase upgrades to higher bandwidth?
I personally doubt BW upgrades will be available for the 1000 series as it would necessitate the installation of a fan for many models.
As for the 800 series, I have no idea, sorry.
rf-loop has strong views about BW selection of models based on performance testing after manufacture, component tolerances determining the final BW/model labeling.
I'm inclined to agree with him.
As we all know much equipment is available in several BW's in a series, with the only difference being FW. This is nothing new, manufacturers have been doing this for decades.
So if we do just a little digging we find this very recent pic on Siglent's website from Siglent's stand in Seattle, Washington June 14-17, 2015.
(https://scontent-sin1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xat1/v/t1.0-9/10426124_479083222261200_135216357815990825_n.jpg?oh=016b35640afd9ad34b3a543aaae3fe7a&oe=55EEFDC2)
Second from the right is what appears to be an 1000 series AWG.... but what's an already established product doing amongst newly released products? :-//
Could it be a new AWG......possibly with BW upgrades. :-//
Honestly I don't know, only those who checked it out in person might.
Let's see if any members that visited can confirm a new Siglent AWG is coming. :popcorn:
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I personally doubt BW upgrades will be available for the 1000 series as it would necessitate the installation of a fan for many models.
As for the 800 series, I have no idea, sorry.
Then why release a new firmware for the 1000 series with a bandwidth update procedure coded in? Thats a pretty major update to the firmware, more than just bug fixing.
Could it be a new AWG......possibly with BW upgrades. :-//
Or perhaps they are showcasing the new "upgrade kit" for existing SDG1000s. It is not beyond the typical end users abilities to install a fan.
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I personally doubt BW upgrades will be available for the 1000 series as it would necessitate the installation of a fan for many models.
As for the 800 series, I have no idea, sorry.
Then why release a new firmware for the 1000 series with a bandwidth update procedure coded in? Thats a pretty major update to the firmware, more than just bug fixing.
Good question, but with what we know of the 1000 series from rf-loop's analysis I don't believe any BW upgrades can be applied across the range. Possibly for fan cooled or non-fan cooled models as 2 sub-groups of the range. :-//
But if there is a new series to be released, maybe they will share the same FW but only the new series be BW upgradeable. :-//
Or perhaps they are showcasing the new "upgrade kit" for existing SDG1000s. It is not beyond the typical end users abilities to install a fan.
And open the case while under warranty to install the fan, I wouldn't think so. :palm:
That's not part of Siglent's MO, you don't have to do stuff like that for units to work as intended.
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Meh, you can round get that by wearing one of Daves "Warranty VOID if NOT removed" T-shirts while replacing the fan. ;)
Perhaps the new firmware has more efficient DSP routines that no longer use so much energy and the fan is redundant anyway?
I guess we will wait and see.
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rf-loop has strong views about BW selection of models based on performance testing after manufacture, component tolerances determining the final BW/model labeling.
I'm inclined to agree with him.
Me not at all. It would indicate poor component choices. And more importantly it would limit the availability of higher end models and could cause an excess of lower specced models in order to fulfill the demand for the higher end models. There is no use in scrapping 10 devices in order to sell one device. Binning after board production would also involve extra logistics and chances for human error to tag the boards and store them in seperate containers.
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I think rf-loop might be biased in this regard. I bet there is only one or two variations of the board and that's it. It does need a fan, though.
Sent from my XT1063 using Tapatalk
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The 50Mhz model costs so much more than the 25Mhz model in scale compared to the other upgrades. I would guess that there is a difference in hardware for that jump. I also see empty locations for parts and cable connectors on mine. I wonder what they are for?
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The 50Mhz model costs so much more than the 25Mhz model in scale compared to the other upgrades. I would guess that there is a difference in hardware for that jump.
Don't forget the SDG1050 is only 50MHz on the sine wave function, everything else is the same as the SDG1025, including maximum 25MHz square wave. A square wave is the fundamental sine wave + odd harmonics, the first of which is 75MHz at 1/3rd the amplitude, so I would imagine a 50MHz sine is easily achievable on equipment that can produce square waves up to 25MHz. A 16.66MHz square wave will be generating a 50MHz sine (+ 83.33, 116.66, etc..)
I also see empty locations for parts and cable connectors on mine. I wonder what they are for?
You know what, I've not even teared it apaaart yet! But I know you can replace the crystal with an OCXO easily enough, space is provided for that. Other headers could be for JTAG and serial. Perhaps they envisaged a LAN/GPIB option board too? or maybe the SA1010 power amplifier add-on (http://www.siglent.eu/spa1010-10watt-power-amplifier.html) was originally intended as an internal upgrade?
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Could it be a new AWG......possibly with BW upgrades. :-//
New AWG is coming but it looks different. Series 2000X (and slso 2000E)
(also coming SDS1000X series oscilloscopes)
I do not have any signs about new AWG what looks 1000 series. (of course it is possible there is coming also something like 1000X but is is just free speculation)
@tautech Have you noted that new SDG1000 generators serial numbers do not anymore tell model! ? (model is only hand check on the carton label but serial do not have any sign about model, same in some oscilloscopes... (perhaps it is sign about something is changing... ;) )
SDG2000X "TrueArb"
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@tautech Have you noted that new SDG1000 generators serial numbers do not anymore tell model! ? (model is only hand check on the carton label but serial do not have any sign about model, same in some oscilloscopes... (perhaps it is sign about something is changing... ;) )
Not specifically, but I had noticed some letters in SNs that had not been present before.
What they signify I have no idea. :-//
I'd love it if we could stock less inventory and configure units to customer's requirements but unless someone cracks BW configuration I won't hold my breath waiting for Siglent to allow us do this.
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Just had notifcation of new FW for the SDG1000 series.
Summary of Changes:
added boot up language selection
added bandwidth update option
fixed the Sweep error
http://siglentamerica.com/download/software/SDG1000-V100R001B01D01P37R3.rar (http://siglentamerica.com/download/software/SDG1000-V100R001B01D01P37R3.rar)
(811 Kb)
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Summary of Changes:
added boot up language selection
added bandwidth update option
fixed the Sweep error
They seem to be the changes in the last update... I can confirm this update gets rid of the boot up language :-+ ... and they haven't removed the bandwidth update option :-+
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Hmmm. What sweep problem did they correct, exactly?
Sent from my XT1063 using Tapatalk
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New update for the SDG800 series
Summary of Changes:
added bandwidth update option
fixed an bug of Easypulse (Missing pulses/cycles)
http://siglentamerica.com/download/software/SDG800 V100R008B01D01P09R1.rar (http://siglentamerica.com/download/software/SDG800 V100R008B01D01P09R1.rar)
(11.1 Mb)
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Looking good... I'll give it a try this weekend. Is anybody sure what was the sweep bug they fixed?
Sent from my XT1063 using Tapatalk
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Just had notifcation of new FW for the SDG1000 series.
Summary of Changes:
added boot up language selection
added bandwidth update option
fixed the Sweep error
http://siglentamerica.com/download/software/SDG1000-V100R001B01D01P37R3.rar (http://siglentamerica.com/download/software/SDG1000-V100R001B01D01P37R3.rar)
I don't know what they fixed about the sweep. The log sweep for wide ranges in a short timespan (10kHz to 1MHz in 1s for example) still makes no sense at all.
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Just had notifcation of new FW for the SDG1000 series.
Summary of Changes:
added boot up language selection
added bandwidth update option
fixed the Sweep error
http://siglentamerica.com/download/software/SDG1000-V100R001B01D01P37R3.rar (http://siglentamerica.com/download/software/SDG1000-V100R001B01D01P37R3.rar)
I don't know what they fixed about the sweep. The log sweep for wide ranges in a short timespan (10kHz to 1MHz in 1s for example) still makes no sense at all.
Yeah. There's a bug that happens when you have a very wide logarithmic frequency span, where the low frequency changes basically look like big steps that get smaller as frequency increases. It probably happens because they make the frequency steps linearly and then apply the log, instead of spacing the frequency steps logarithmically. I haven't thought it enough, though. I'll take a screenshot so that you can see.
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I know exactly what you mean. I've seen it as well in my previous tests.
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Just had notifcation of new FW for the SDG1000 series.
Summary of Changes:
added boot up language selection
added bandwidth update option
fixed the Sweep error
http://siglentamerica.com/download/software/SDG1000-V100R001B01D01P37R3.rar (http://siglentamerica.com/download/software/SDG1000-V100R001B01D01P37R3.rar)
This updates still shows language selection on every single boot up :(. So i don't think they've fixed it?
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The language selection at start up is one of the most annoying "features" I have ever seen. They REALLY NEED to get rid of this silly and unprofessional function. It really pisses me off each time I power up my SDG and Siglent needs to rethink this.
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The language selection at start up is one of the most annoying "features" I have ever seen. They REALLY NEED to get rid of this silly and unprofessional function. It really pisses me off each time I power up my SDG and Siglent needs to rethink this.
Yet Macbeth said it had gone for him. :-//
Summary of Changes:
added boot up language selection
added bandwidth update option
fixed the Sweep error
They seem to be the changes in the last update... I can confirm this update gets rid of the boot up language :-+ ... and they haven't removed the bandwidth update option :-+
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I just did the update and it still is there. I like my SDG and I have been generally happy with Siglent support, but this is like being poked with an cattle prod each time you power on. Really they need to kill this "feature" as it is seen as an annoyance each time I start up my Siglent SDG. Not good advertising.
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But let me confirm for myself on 1000 & 800 units that I have in stock that Language selection is still there after these recent updates.....be an hour or so.
Have some :popcorn: while you wait. ;)
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SDG1000 series FW update ***37R2 DOES remove the boot up Language selection option. :-+
SDG1010
HW 02.00.00.23.24
Build date 2/13
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SDG805 NIB
FW 1.08.01.08
HW 02.00.00.04.00
Build 2/15
NO Language selection option appeared at FIRST boot. :-+
Updated to ****.09R1
NO Language selection option on boot. :-+
NOTE
The update Reademe file DOES NOT accurately describe the update process.
In short, the .ADS update file, when highlighted by user selection, is then RECALL'ed and the update takes place.
Only the description of the RECALL selection is missing from the Readme file.
This is described in line 5 of the upgrade explanation(instructions) but "read" is printed not RECALL.
Confirmation of sucessfull update can be seen in the "Edit Info" selection in the Utitility menu.
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SDG1000 series FW update ***37R2 DOES remove the boot up Language selection option. :-+
SDG1010
HW 02.00.00.23.24
Build date 2/13
Hi Tautech,
Sorry, but language selection appears in 37R2 and 37R3.
SDG1025
HW: 02.00.00.23.26
I also agree that language selection is just a pain in the ass...
Cheers.
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Daniel
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If you set the generator to remember your waveform settings from last time, does it still ask you for a language at startup?
Sent from my XT1063 using Tapatalk
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I'm definitely using update 37R3 on my SDG1025 and don't have to select the language at power on.
After installing the update, re-booting and selecting the correct language, you have to make sure you have Utility > System > PowerOn set to Last, not Default, for it to work. I believe this is the same behaviour as the other SDG series.
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That actually makes a lot of sense one reason:
This product was designed by the Chinese. This default power on function is very useful in academic settings or situations where there are many users for the same instrument. Not all of them will speak both English and Chinese well enough. (for example foreign students at uni or engineers at a multinational company). So it makes sense IN CHINA to have the language selection included in the defaults.
Since Chinese is mostly only spoken in China, this feature is annoying on the rest of the world.
Sent from my XT1063 using Tapatalk
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Well, chinese is also spoken in a handful of other countries, but it is limited to that region, really. English is very widespread around the world. They should add spanish, french, portuguese and german and they will be covering a big part of Europe, the Americas and even a large segment of Africa with just 5 (incl. english) languages.
Sent from my XT1063 using Tapatalk
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I'm definitely using update 37R3 on my SDG1025 and don't have to select the language at power on.
After installing the update, re-booting and selecting the correct language, you have to make sure you have Utility > System > PowerOn set to Last, not Default, for it to work. I believe this is the same behaviour as the other SDG series.
I'll check that later today, or tomorrow.
Cheers.
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Daniel
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They seem to be the changes in the last update... I can confirm this update gets rid of the boot up language :-+ ... and they haven't removed the bandwidth update option :-+
Same here - going from 37R2 to 37R3 removed the boot-up language prompt for me too. :-+ :-+ :-+
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New version worked for me as well. Removed the annoying language selection at startup.
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Yes, after I set to start wth last settings, no more language selection on startup! :-+
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Okay, same here, setting "power on" to "last" avoids language selection on startup. Great :-)
Cheers.
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Daniel
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Okay, same here, setting "power on" to "last" avoids language selection on startup. Great :-)
Same here, thank you Macbeth for pointing this out :).
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I recently purchased an SGD810 and I'm very happy with it.
FYI I've posted a plot of sinewave THD at 1kHz .
The instrument used for the measurement is a Quantasylum QA400. https://www.quantasylum.com/content/Products/QA400.aspx (https://www.quantasylum.com/content/Products/QA400.aspx)
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I recently purchased an SGD810 and I'm very happy with it.
FYI I've posted a plot of sinewave THD at 1kHz .
The instrument used for the measurement is a Quantasylum QA400. https://www.quantasylum.com/content/Products/QA400.aspx (https://www.quantasylum.com/content/Products/QA400.aspx)
Very interesting the Quantasylum QA400, you could compare with something similar ?, for this price seems very complete.
Regards
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Very interesting the Quantasylum QA400, you could compare with something similar ?, for this price seems very complete.
Regards
I believe it is designed in the USA and manufactured in China. The target market was factory test of audio products in asian factories as I understand.
Its great value for the money and very capable. There is a long and informative thread in the link below...
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/equipment-tools/231401-quantasylum-qa400.html (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/equipment-tools/231401-quantasylum-qa400.html)
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Just got a sdg1020 as a bit of a repair project, you mention old version and new version. What is the difference and what was the serial number break. Thanks for any responses :-)
Repair?
What are the fault symptoms?
Siglent products have a 3 year warranty, post all but the last 4 SN digits, from that we can tell the build date, it may still be under warranty.
Hi Tautech,
It has been several months since my last post on this case but life got in the way of me sorting out the poor old SDG 1020, unfortunately I got it non working and I see that someone made a bit of a dogs breakfast in soldering in U55 which I believe is the - 15V voltage regulator. I would doubt that Siglent would honor any warranty on this as I am not the original owner and it has had already had a go at by someone else. Anyway the serial number without the last 4 digits is: SDG0000113.
The symptom is from memory that the waveform had DC offset problems and can be all over the place and may even be clipped. I checked the power supply voltages according to the service manual and these were in specification. Interestingly the generator has a function that can set a DC output and is part of the calibration routine in the service manual. When using this the readings I get are way off and I would think that this is where I would start investigating the problems.
I am sorry that I have been vague in that I have not given any measurements or readings but I am about to start faultfinding again, will post any progress I make and any voltage readings I make :-). I am sure that the wave generation seems to be working but I would think that this an issue with the output stage given that the -15V regulator was replaced. This is why I wanted a schematic but if this is not available then fault finding will be a little more time consuming but no less fun.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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Just got a sdg1020 as a bit of a repair project, you mention old version and new version. What is the difference and what was the serial number break. Thanks for any responses :-)
Repair?
What are the fault symptoms?
Siglent products have a 3 year warranty, post all but the last 4 SN digits, from that we can tell the build date, it may still be under warranty.
Hi Tautech,
It has been several months since my last post on this case but life got in the way of me sorting out the poor old SDG 1020, unfortunately I got it non working and I see that someone made a bit of a dogs breakfast in soldering in U55 which I believe is the - 15V voltage regulator. I would doubt that Siglent would honor any warranty on this as I am not the original owner and it has had already had a go at by someone else. Anyway the serial number without the last 4 digits is: SDG0000113.
The symptom is from memory that the waveform had DC offset problems and can be all over the place and may even be clipped. I checked the power supply voltages according to the service manual and these were in specification. Interestingly the generator has a function that can set a DC output and is part of the calibration routine in the service manual. When using this the readings I get are way off and I would think that this is where I would start investigating the problems.
I am sorry that I have been vague in that I have not given any measurements or readings but I am about to start faultfinding again, will post any progress I make and any voltage readings I make :-). I am sure that the wave generation seems to be working but I would think that this an issue with the output stage given that the -15V regulator was replaced. This is why I wanted a schematic but if this is not available then fault finding will be a little more time consuming but no less fun.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Build date of your SDG1020 is Jan 2013.
Many source these units from overseas and then it is often too dificult to seek warranty repair and try then to fix units themselves which of course voids warranty.
I'm not aware of any schematics available, however IIRC there are links to imagery in this thread.
Member Lightages blew the output stage in his and sourced a new PCB direct from Siglent at his cost.
If you bought it cheaply enough it may be well worth a new PCB and then be as good as new.
If you contact them introduce yourself as an EEVblog member and I'm confident Siglent will assist.
Jade's email is in the profile of member Siglent in this thread:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/)
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Maybe this isn't the proper place in the forum for this question, but I'm looking at the various Siglent arb gens. My question isn't about the 1000 or 800, but the SDG2122X.
The SDG2122X has a huge memory, and a claimed 1.2GSa/s for built in waves, but only 75MSa/S for the arb gen... But the 1000 series lists 125MSa/S with 125MSa/S for the arb gen. The 5000 series has 500 MSa/S for both built in waves and arb gen. 800 series has the same sample rate for both too.
Why such a huge difference on the 2122X? I can see where the arb gen's memory might be slower so it can't use as fast of a sample rate as the built in waves, but why would a $900 generator have 40% less arb sample rate than the $350 one, especially considering the 1000 and 5000 models have the same sample rate for both? Is the 2000 series just primarily showcasing its massive memory? Is it possible that Siglent's documentation is incorrect?
One explanation I can think of is that the Truearb eliminates jitter that DDS has had before, but at a price of a slower sample rate. Anyone?
(2nd question, the 1000 series has 7ns rise time while the 2000 has only 8.4nS, again, why would the more expensive one be less good.. Is the 1000 just a particularly good buy?)
Thanks
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Maybe this isn't the proper place in the forum for this question, but I'm looking at the various Siglent arb gens. My question isn't about the 1000 or 800, but the SDG2122X.
The SDG2122X has a huge memory, and a claimed 1.2GSa/s for built in waves, but only 75MSa/S for the arb gen... But the 1000 series lists 125MSa/S with 125MSa/S for the arb gen. The 5000 series has 500 MSa/S for both built in waves and arb gen. 800 series has the same sample rate for both too.
Why such a huge difference on the 2122X? I can see where the arb gen's memory might be slower so it can't use as fast of a sample rate as the built in waves, but why would a $900 generator have 40% less arb sample rate than the $350 one, especially considering the 1000 and 5000 models have the same sample rate for both? Is the 2000 series just primarily showcasing its massive memory? Is it possible that Siglent's documentation is incorrect?
One explanation I can think of is that the Truearb eliminates jitter that DDS has had before, but at a price of a slower sample rate. Anyone?
(2nd question, the 1000 series has 7ns rise time while the 2000 has only 8.4nS, again, why would the more expensive one be less good.. Is the 1000 just a particularly good buy?)
Thanks
Good questions, let me see if I can throw some light on these.
As the SDG2000 series have just hit the ground and I suspect with preliminary FW Id guess there will be enhancements to come. :-//
Rise time spec you have quoted for theSDG1000 series is in Pulse mode, you'd need to check the 2000 series figure was also in Pulse mode.
Sorry I'm away from my normal PC with all the datasheets at handy reach but you can check them from the Siglent America site.
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In case anyone is keeping track of hardware
my new SDG1020 landed in the lab yesterday
HW version is 02-00-00-23-26
SW version is 1.01.01.37R3
manufactured Q3 2015
Rise time seems to be consistent across CH1, CH2, Square, or Pulse at about 7.5 to 8ns (1vpp @ 1khz)
I wasn't going to make any videos of this as there is plenty out there on youtube, unless someone wants to see something specific
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In case anyone is keeping track of hardware
my new SDG1020 landed in the lab yesterday
HW version is 02-00-00-23-26
SW version is 1.01.01.37R3
manufactured Q3 2015
Rise time seems to be consistent across CH1, CH2, Square, or Pulse at about 7.5 to 8ns (1vpp @ 1khz)
I wasn't going to make any videos of this as there is plenty out there on youtube, unless someone wants to see something specific
Can you try to replicate the square wave jitter issue? Congrats on the acquisition! May it last a long, productive life.
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Can you try to replicate the square wave jitter issue? Congrats on the acquisition! May it last a long, productive life.
scope screenshots attached, infinite persistence & long memory for about 5 mins each on my DS1152
all measured at Square, 5vP-P 2.5v Offset, 50% duty.
i dont see any issues like in the traces detailed in the glitching thread
though the low part (at 0v) does look a bit noisy at the lower frequencies, my other older scope (a 50mhz digital/CRO) is blind to it
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the low part (at 0v) does look a bit noisy at the lower frequencies
Have you tried to generate the same square waveforms in pulse mode? Could you post screen shots?
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same waveform in pulse mode, the trace looks the same at all frequencies
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same waveform in pulse mode, the trace looks the same at all frequencies
Thanks. So, less noise but more overshoot. Confirms the measurements done by rf-loop.
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Can you try to replicate the square wave jitter issue? Congrats on the acquisition! May it last a long, productive life.
scope screenshots attached, infinite persistence & long memory for about 5 mins each on my DS1152
all measured at Square, 5vP-P 2.5v Offset, 50% duty.
i dont see any issues like in the traces detailed in the glitching thread
though the low part (at 0v) does look a bit noisy at the lower frequencies, my other older scope (a 50mhz digital/CRO) is blind to it
How these images tell anything about pulse or square function produced waves jitter (if we talk time jitter).
Even if you mesure it so that it is trigged to example risning edge and then you look next rising edge. There you can see cycle-cycle time jitter + test equipment itself jitter(s).
For better than this method there need be one signal what jitter is known and amount of jitter is so small that it not meaningful. Exept if really know that test equipment itself jitters are enough low.
Square wave noise before rising and before falling edge is other case and it can see also like this even with DS1000E (in this case when this noise is like it is now).
Overshoots and preshoots etc before and after edges - who know what is made by scope and test setup and what is really made by device under test.
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How these images tell anything about pulse or square function produced waves jitter (if we talk time jitter).
Even if you mesure it so that it is trigged to example risning edge and then you look next rising edge. There you can see cycle-cycle time jitter + test equipment itself jitter(s).
For better than this method there need be one signal what jitter is known and amount of jitter is so small that it not meaningful. Exept if really know that test equipment itself jitters are enough low.
Square wave noise before rising and before falling edge is other case and it can see also like this even with DS1000E (in this case when this noise is like it is now).
Overshoots and preshoots etc before and after edges - who know what is made by scope and test setup and what is really made by device under test.
indeed there are many things at play with both source and measurement
the cycle-cycle jitter seems to be bang on spec at 8ns for pulse
the SDG1000 seems to be excellent value for money IMO, but it is always good to know the limitations of your equipment!
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Wow, your unit behaves quite nicely.
Sent from my XT1063 using Tapatalk
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Wow, your unit behaves quite nicely.
Got my SDG1010 today. The square/pulse waveforms look exactly the same as the ones from dexters_lab
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Even if you mesure it so that it is trigged to example risning edge and then you look next rising edge.
100% agree, the trigger point is at the rising edge. We need to see the next rising edge.
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Link to latest FW for SDG800 series:
http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDG800%20V100R008B01D01P10R1.rar (http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDG800%20V100R008B01D01P10R1.rar)
14.4 Mb
Please read The Update instructions pdf file
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This is my longest post so far but I have some good news following the trouble I had with my SDG 1020.
Following on from this set of posts...
Just got a sdg1020 as a bit of a repair project, you mention old version and new version. What is the difference and what was the serial number break. Thanks for any responses :-)
Repair?
What are the fault symptoms?
Siglent products have a 3 year warranty, post all but the last 4 SN digits, from that we can tell the build date, it may still be under warranty.
Hi Tautech,
It has been several months since my last post on this case but life got in the way of me sorting out the poor old SDG 1020, unfortunately I got it non working and I see that someone made a bit of a dogs breakfast in soldering in U55 which I believe is the - 15V voltage regulator. I would doubt that Siglent would honor any warranty on this as I am not the original owner and it has had already had a go at by someone else. Anyway the serial number without the last 4 digits is: SDG0000113.
The symptom is from memory that the waveform had DC offset problems and can be all over the place and may even be clipped........ will post any progress I make and any voltage readings I make :-). I am sure that the wave generation seems to be working but I would think that this an issue with the output stage given that the -15V regulator was replaced. This is why I wanted a schematic but if this is not available then fault finding will be a little more time consuming but no less fun.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Build date of your SDG1020 is Jan 2013.
Many source these units from overseas and then it is often too dificult to seek warranty repair and try then to fix units themselves which of course voids warranty.
I'm not aware of any schematics available, however IIRC there are links to imagery in this thread.
Member Lightages blew the output stage in his and sourced a new PCB direct from Siglent at his cost.
If you bought it cheaply enough it may be well worth a new PCB and then be as good as new.
If you contact them introduce yourself as an EEVblog member and I'm confident Siglent will assist.
Jade's email is in the profile of member Siglent in this thread:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/)
I can say that I have now got it working :)
The voltage readings I got for the power supply was in spec with +5v being 4.95v, - 5V at -4.98, +15V at 15.01V and -15 at -14.99 (this is all from memory). I had noticed that the + and - 15 Volt regulators were replaced. All my signals on channel 1 had a massive 10V offset if the P-P voltage was over 900 mV I also had clipping on sine waves. The DC offset would jump to positive or negative depending on what p-p voltage was set and all of my wave forms were only 1v p-p. Channel 2 was the same but had 5v offset.
I also had no square wave output on either channels, so this is what I had to start with. To fix this my initial approach was to do the following.
1. Work how the wave forms are generated and handled in the output stage
2. Work out how the DC offset is generated
3. go through the fault finding part of the service manual
I decided to go with the service manual and found something interesting, when looking at TA15 and TA16 these were well bellow spec when measuring with something like 500mV p-p. However if I power cycled and pressed no buttons then the waveform amplitude would be in specification. As soon as the output enable for channel 1 or 2 was pressed TA15 and TA16 would drop down to 500mV p-p. I thought this may have something wrong with the output stage loading these signals down but this was not the case as I had removed next op-amp in the circuit and I would be surprised if both channels were loading their wave forms down in the same way.
Then disaster struck, when looking at U19 for the potential reason of the DC offset the scope probe accidentally shorted pins 7 and 8 which shorted +15V to the chip disable pin then the chip literally burnt up immediately :-BROKE :palm: power off walk away... this was the low point.
I removed this OP-Amp then checked to see if the signal generator still had life. Got wave forms so at this stage I ordered some new op-amps and hoped that I had not done any permanent damage. When refitting this op-amp I could not reconnect pin8 (missing pad :palm:), quick look of the datasheet suggests that this would mean that the Op-amp would always stay powered on. Really would love to know where pin 8 of U19 went to :scared:
I had managed to get the output stage working as well as I could replacing a number of parts (some of which may have been OK to begin with) got my square wave back with replacing U37 as I think this is switched in as part of the sine to square circuit using a comparator (half of U35). But still had DC offset issues.
The DC offset and the gain voltage going to U25 and U26 (TI variable gain op amps VCA822ID) had to come from somewhere. So I started looking for another DAC and found it when looking at U72 which was a TI DAC8580 which is a 16bit serial interface DAC. This device was then connected to U47 which is a 74HC4051 demux/mux chip. Looking at test point T1 will show you the signal coming out of the DAC and you need a 1ms or so delayed trigger. I was then able to see what signals were affected by the DC offset setting and found that the following signals come from U47 (some of which I recently found out).
Pin1 is CH1 DC offset
Pin2 is CH2 DC offset
Pin3 is the signal from the DAC U72
Pin 12 is the gain setting voltage for U25 (buffered by U103) for CH1
Pin 13 is the gain setting voltage for U26 (buffered by U103) for CH2
Pins 5 and 15, I could not find out about but I suspect they are for setting up the comparator circuit on the sine to square wave conversion.
Pins 4 and 14 I will discuss later.
I then discovered that the DC offset signals from U47 were buffered by U89 (an Intersil ISL28210 op amp) and were mixed with the input of U45 via R145 in the case of CH1. So all of my output circuitry was working the main DACs seemed to work but the origin of the DC offset was the output of DAC U72. In fact looking at the wave forms on T1 made no sense as these were way off. So I tried to do a self calibration in the generator and this took far longer than the 15 seconds mentioned in the service manual. In fact it took near enough 2 to 3 minutes with no improvement.
So this got me thinking that there was a problem with the calibration circuit/channel given that:
A. the calibration routine took ages and
B. The values at T1 seemed to be at some limit.
So after more searching I noticed that there was another 74HC4051 mux chip (U42) and this had signals from the other circuitry going to it. In particular when looking at CH1 I wondered where the signal from R42 went to as it diapered in to an inner layer of the board. After some investigation I found that it went to U42 pin 1. So working forwards I found that U42 pin 3 went to U91 which was another Intersil ISL28210 and this was powered not by the +/- 5V but the +/- 15V. Now we are getting somewhere as this device was poorly, the output of U91 was in turn connected to U61_1 which was an odd 6 pin sot 23 device. It had a marking of X01C and on further investigation this was a serial 12 Bit ADC. Another Farnell order of replacement parts later... I fitted the new mux chip (U42), Op amp (U91) and ADC (U61_1) , tried to do a calibration and it looked good as it only took seconds. Checked the output and the Waveform generator was now working ;D
Interestingly pins 4 and 14 of U47 were buffered by U103 and these voltages applied to the Reference pins of the main DACs. Where Pin 4 affected the CH1 DAC reference and Pin 14 affected CH2. This I think is the reason for the sudden drop in waveform from the main DACs as observed on TA15 and TA16 when the output key was pressed. Not certain about this, but as this is now working I am not too keen on poking around with the scope just in case I make another bad mistake. :-[
This was a long drawn out repair but I learned a lot! I must also thank Tautech for their help and I hope that my little essay may help in some way.
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WOW, you have been through the mill with this AWG and thanks very much for sharing your battle, it will in no doubt enormously help others that might have similar probems.
Well done. :phew: :-+
BTW I need no credit or mention, you did all this work.
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FYI
Siglent Application Note for SDG AWG's.
Using 2 AWG's for Multi-Phase Waveforms:
Generating Multi-Phase Waveforms -- SDG Generators
http://www.siglentamerica.com/qyxwxx.aspx?id=1435&sid=228 (http://www.siglentamerica.com/qyxwxx.aspx?id=1435&sid=228)
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SDG800 series FW update:
http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDG800Update-1.08.01.11.rar (http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDG800Update-1.08.01.11.rar)
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I recently bought a Siglent SDG805 off Ebay as a Parts/ Not Working item. The description said it was a warranty return from Amazon with the seller being a warranty trans-shipper. As it was cheap and shown powered up I took a punt.
Upon receiving the 805 I booted it up to find that all output waveforms seemed fine but voltages were low. However it was inconsistent, it was ~3dB down as set voltage increased until the output voltage remain fixed, regardless of further increases in the set voltage. Then a relay would click and the output voltage would jump by about 50% and the process would start over again. This was the case over the entire output range, :-// A quick look inside showed no obvious faults and power rails I assumed were good at +/- 5 and 15 volts.
Manufacture date is indicated as 3/14.
Hardware version: 02-00-00-05-00
Firmware version: 1.08.01.08
Before I got too carried away poking around inside I decided to upgrade the firmware to the latest 1.08.01.11 version. The upgrade instructions say firmware versions 1.08.01.06, 1.08.01.07 and 1.08.01.08 need to install a transition firmware first but no amount of fiddling, USB stick reformatting or attempted firmware roll-backs would convince my machine to install this transition firmware. Eventually I decided to install the 1.08.01.11 firmware as is and hope for the best.
This firmware installation was as straightforward as I had originally hoped for. After a reboot I dove into the Utilities menu to run the re-enabled Self Calibration function. After this was finished the output voltages are now in spec without any pauses or jumps. I have no idea how it could have gotten so far out of cal but hey, at least its fully functional now.
What's more, my machine now seems to believe that it is a SDG830! ;D
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-sdg1000-and-sdg800-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=190759;image)
About 2 mins at infinite persistence.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-sdg1000-and-sdg800-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=190757;image)
Anyone with an SDG 805 or 810 who wants to confirm that Siglent have taken a leaf out of Rigol's book?
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I recently bought a Siglent SDG805 off Ebay as a Parts/ Not Working item............
What's more, my machine now seems to believe that it is a SDG830!
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-sdg1000-and-sdg800-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=190759;image)
Anyone with an SDG 805 or 810 who wants to confirm that Siglent have taken a leaf out of Rigol's book?
Well looking at the system info pic, at some stage somebody has installed LeCroy Wavestation FW.
As you are not the original owner, who knows what :-/O have been applied before you got it.
You also may not be aware that Siglent have been incorporating BW upgrade functionality in much of their equipment but as yet have not offered this as a purchasable option, but I do wonder if this is intentionally providing a path for future cracks of Siglent equipment. :-//
All that aside, you did well......enjoy. ;)
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Heh, I never noticed that Wavestation tag. That may explain it being out of cal as I dont think they ever released a 5 MHz AWG.
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I've bought Axiomet's AX-DG2010AF which is actually rebranded Siglent SDG1010. It has one annoying issue - when both channels are active, if I modify e.g. CH1 frequency, there's a glitch on CH2 too. I am wondering if original SDG1010 has the same issue. I would apprecite if somebody can verify that... Thanks in advance!
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Welcome to the forum.
Please tell us more about this ch 2 glitch and I can see if I can reproduce it.
Screenshots would be great if you can.
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It' simple - hook up two channels scope to it, set Ch1 to say, 1HZ Squarewave and CH2 to 1kHz sinewave. Now change CH1 frequency to 1.5Hz and observe CH2...
Currently I'm at home so I can't post any images...
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It' simple - hook up two channels scope to it, set Ch1 to say, 1HZ Squarewave and CH2 to 1kHz sinewave. Now change CH1 frequency to 1.5Hz and observe CH2...
Currently I'm at home so I can't post any images...
I don't see any unexpected behaviour and certainly no glitches on Ch2. :-//
Setup as you describe, and triggering on the 1 KHz sinewave.
SDG1010, 50 Ohm output and 50 Ohm internal termination in scope.
What version FW do you have installed?
What scope are you using?
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To verify my findings, set generator CH1 to say 1kHz, attach it to the scope and set scope display to persistent mode and select time base so you see several periods of the signal.
Then select channel2 on the generator and rapidly change frequency of channel2...
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To verify my findings, set generator CH1 to say 1kHz, attach it to the scope and set scope display to persistent mode and select time base so you see several periods of the signal.
Then select channel2 on the generator and rapidly change frequency of channel2...
Is it possible you give some documents about your findings. Example screen dump (if possible) from oscilloscope and explanation what is set up exactly including signal connections.
I do not have SDG1000 series at this time for testing. But, I find something "strange" with SDG5000.
So lets investigate this case bit more. It looks like all strange unexpected things can exist until enough evidence that it do not exist.
Btw, drop out trigger function and/or mask test is nice tool in oscilloscope.
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Deni,
My SDG1020 has always behaved this way. A much easier way to see this feature is to set CH1 to 1.000 000 Hz and CH2 to 2.000 000 Hz connect up to a oscilloscope of you choice with a nice slow sweep and then with the cursor on the last digit of the frequency setting for channel 2 change it to 2.000 001 Hz.
You will see both channels restart at the zero point of the waveform, same thing happens if you have different waveforms on either channel.
Is this a limitation of the design of this function generator, could be a software issue or a hardware limitation, or do all DDS based function generators work the same way ?
Screen shots of the feature below. NB. QuickPrint2 is a zoomed in view.
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This is partiaally OT because this is SDG5000.
I do not have at this time SDG1000 or SDG800 for tests.
But still I think this is perhaps useful for think this whole issue.
After several tests with SDG5000 my opinion is that there is severe error is system but I still do not believe mistake in HW.
About this one image.
Signal from SDG5082 CH1 to oscilloscope CH1 and CH2 to CH2.
Oscilloscope here is SDS1202X
Trigger is set for drop out in CH1 signal.
CH1 is 50kHz and during this test I do not touch it. (freq is not important, same happend also with other freqs)
CH2 is bit over 1kHz and then step changed to over 2kHz. (freq do not matter here, around same with other frequencies)
During this test I change SDG CH2 frequency.
Change can see in upper window around 900us before trigger point.
Change is nice without glitches. Also at this point nothing happend in CH1 signal, rock solid.
BUT then, after nearly 1ms start hassle. Both channels signal breaks and independent of signal phase, just cut off. After short time signals start from around 0 degree but more or less phase shifted related to original wave and depending frequency just right signal come out (from both channel but here in this image CH2 freq is so low that can see only tiny part of cycle but CH1 it can see.
Then soon after short time both channels breaks agen independent of signal phase, just cut off. After then both channels start and continue normally.
This is case with sinewaves. Situation is bit more complex with some other waveforms.
It is good to note these phase shift during breaks. It may give information for reduce area for finding this problem living address or least what part of city it live.
I will report this bug to Siglent after I get more tests ready and better documentations. (but this is SDG5000)
Add:(Reported to Siglent with some documents at 25.Jan)
I have tested this using current and also previous FW:
Current, 5.01.01.15R1 Published?2015-11-12
Previous, 5.01.01.12 Published?2015-03-10
Result looks like same.
(I remember one old case where I find SDG800 missing pulses (very different case) and Siglent find reason very quicly and also it was nearly immediate repaired with new FW (if I remember right problem was in FPGA some timing), so I hope this is also repairable easy after know where this problem is.
Why it breaks CH1 when I adjust CH2. This is not acceptable at all.
This is so severe error that this must get fatal or severe class status for inspect and solve as soon as possible.
Problem is now also that factory is soon shut down phase for holiday and totally closed from 30.Jan - 20.Feb. How long it then take before all are "wake up" and processes run normally.
Other question is that is these kind of equipments, independent of manufacturer, enough reliable for directly drive some critical things where may happen severe damage if channels timing related to each others is "die or live" question and specially if signals need adjust on the fly. My individual opinion is that No. These kind of equipments are not suitable for this kind of solution without some safety circuits between siggen and object. Not only because there may happend some anomalies in signal during adjustment in fly but also one single mistake with buttons and - when the smoke is allayed, then calculate damage. Least it need run enough of tests and exercises with some test setup where object is cheap enough for destroy.
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New versions of Easywave software are available:
http://www.siglentamerica.com/gjjrj.aspx?id=14 (http://www.siglentamerica.com/gjjrj.aspx?id=14)
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New versions of Easywave software are available:
http://www.siglentamerica.com/gjjrj.aspx?id=14 (http://www.siglentamerica.com/gjjrj.aspx?id=14)
FYI, I have found that the P34 version will not run correctly on my Windows 7 PC. It throws a series of "An unsupported operation was attempted" errors. I had to uninstall it and re-install the P32 version. I posted about this in the Siglent tech support topic, and a few others seem to be having trouble too.
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Windows 7 but what version exactly?
Installed Ni-Visa version? 5.1.2 runtime?
P34 Installed "For all users"?
As previously told, also I test it and during installation and use not any kind of problem.
(I have tested it now more). 1. unisntall and clean all old P32, installed P34 = works ok. and now later: unindstalled and removed all P34, installed P32. Works ok. Uninstalled and removed all P32, installed P34, works ok. Uninstalled P34 all.
Uninstalled Ni-Visa. Installed P34 = fails of course due to missing one dll. Removed all P34. Installed Ni-Visa 5.1.2 runtime. (after then reboot) Installed P34. works ok as previously.
So there must be some undefined conflict with some software in Computer (Firewall, or some other running software do conflict?), some win7 version is not fully compatible?
Ni-Visa what I use is exatly this:
http://www.ni.com/download/ni-visa-run-time-engine-5.1.2/2918/en/ (http://www.ni.com/download/ni-visa-run-time-engine-5.1.2/2918/en/)
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Windows 7 but what version exactly?
Installed Ni-Visa version? 5.1.2 runtime?
P34 Installed "For all users"?
Windows 7 Pro with service pack 1, 64 bit.
P34 installed for all users.
Not sure how to determine version on NI-Visa (is it needed by EasyWave?), but I have "VISA Shared Components 64-Bit" version 5.5 installed. Is that it? If not, where do I look for this?
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I was able to reproduce this issue on the SDG1025 as well.
(https://i.imgur.com/87pzkbs.png)
Top is channel 1, bottom is channel 2. Just changing the frequency of CH2 causes glitches on CH1.
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Windows 7 but what version exactly?
Installed Ni-Visa version? 5.1.2 runtime?
P34 Installed "For all users"?
Windows 7 Pro with service pack 1, 64 bit.
P34 installed for all users.
Not sure how to determine version on NI-Visa (is it needed by EasyWave?), but I have "VISA Shared Components 64-Bit" version 5.5 installed. Is that it? If not, where do I look for this?
I had the same issue with P34 on Windows XP Pro, ended up reinstalling P32.
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Windows 7 but what version exactly?
Installed Ni-Visa version? 5.1.2 runtime?
P34 Installed "For all users"?
Windows 7 Pro with service pack 1, 64 bit.
P34 installed for all users.
Not sure how to determine version on NI-Visa (is it needed by EasyWave?), but I have "VISA Shared Components 64-Bit" version 5.5 installed. Is that it? If not, where do I look for this?
It is poorly described By Siglent.
I do not know what year they get manuals and instructions so that they all are updated and easy available in one place ecatly.
If someone jump just now to train he must be least Sherlock Holmes to solve all things. First need solve where can find information and then also need find this information. After find information need also solve what information is valid and what is obsolete and if obsolete information still have some valid information included. I do not know what versions work with what version etc.
But I know, that combination whhat I use, works.
In history it was also important that Ni-Visa was FIRST installed before Computer even hear anything about Siglent (not Easythisandthat and not connected to USB nevere before etc)
It was, and I follow it still until someone tell exactly I'm wrong or I find my procedure do not anymore work for me):
First install Ni-Visa Runtime (link above but also this,I do not know what other version perhaps works or not but I use this version and it have worked rock solid with Win XP32 to Win 7 64. Normally all people with Windows have also .NET frameworks all in update and if I remember right least 3.5 need be installed)
After Ni-Visa installation (and so that it never have seen any Siglent before or cleaned, what means sometimes more than just unisntall button)
After Ni-Visa need reboot Computer!
After then when all is ok. Then install (with admin rights) Siglent (and I recommend isntall for "all users")
This is first point when it is safe to first connect also USB if want.
I have not any experience with Windows B or 10.
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Bit OT.
This kind of case can use also for many kind of exercises for learn different ways to use oscilloscope, specially when we want find and analyze some glitches or anomalies in signals. Of course this is just one individual example but also it may give some idea how to use oscilloscope bit more advanced way.
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x2/aghp55/SDS1000X/Examples/87pzkbs.png)
Here is one (quite good also) method for find if there is "something". Using persistence. Of course we have wfm/s update rates and intensity grading etc but no need stress user eyes for watch if there just blink something.
So, this method is one first method for finding "something" what we do not know. But as we can see from this image can not analyze nearly anything, only we can see there is something wrong. If situation is rare, just let osciolloscope do work and go to coffee.
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x2/aghp55/SDS1000X/Examples/SDG5082-bug-txt.png)
Oscilloscopes today, specially oscilloscopes what have true digital side trigger system, may have couple of powerful trigger features what we can use for more deep analyze what is really going on. As in upper image we have found there is something, but example here we can see much more. Of course this method need that we know something about what we are trying analyze. (persistence method is one way to first find some kind of vision what is there perhaps.
Because we want know what happends in other channel (CH1) what need be rock solid when we adjust other channel. We know what is signal in CH1. We need find if there change something. We can of course do mask test. Take CH1 signal and do mask. Then set it so that if signal fails inside mask scope stop and we see this situation. (yes I did it and there I see signal really drops out totally after do freq change in generator CH2 and in this case CH2 was not at all connected to scope.)
In this position I want see all things what happend there when CH2 change and result is CH1 drop out.
Here come Trigger.
Now I know how long time drop out continue.
I set trigger for CH1 and so that scope do acquisition only if trigger detected. (So, Auto trigger is not suitable, set for Normal what means scope do whole acquistion only if it trig.)
Then I want it trig only if it see signal is under trigger level over time what I set, because now I know that there is break in signal.
Also connected CH2 to scope CH2
After these adjustemnts are ok.
Now I change generator freq and every single time I do it, scope is trigged (and only when I change CH2 freq) and I can see new trace on the screen.
After then I can adjust scope so that I can see both, exacly when CH2 freq change and this signal break bit later. Now using zoom it can also analyze more deeply.
Rigol also have powerful trigger functions so this is nice case to exercise study how to use scope independent of brand.
In oscilloscope course this lesson "how to use oscilloscope bit more powerful way" it cost least 1000 and here it cost only one cheap SDG1000.
Basic trigger functions are very important to be familiar. Oscilloscope can be used very effectively when user is familiar with many kind of triggering functions and aplications.
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I have had a look at the glitch at higher frequencies on my SDG1020 and it is same as the SDG5082 that rf-loop posted, complete with the two gaps on both channels.
I can see how this could be a bit of a problem, It looks like both channels are reset / restarted in phase with each other (or at their set phase offset ?) this makes little sense if the frequencies are not harmonically related however I can understand why it is done this way.
I would like to see how a DDS function generator from another manufacture behaves, probably need to ask in another thread :)
I agree that it is a bit of a challenge to trigger on the drop-out / glitch, I tried the obvious way first with a mask trigger but found the most reliable and fastest way was to set the trigger for Runt.
(Ignore the ringing on the screen grab, I did not use any 50 ohm termination as I was only interested in the gaps / glitches.)
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FW update for SDG800 series:
http://www.siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=3624&tid=15 (http://www.siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=3624&tid=15)
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@ tautech
Thank you!
i just upgrade my SDG805, does Siglent only release new FW in their website? any emails?
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@ tautech
Thank you!
i just upgrade my SDG805, does Siglent only release new FW in their website? any emails?
Sometimes they email me so that can inform this community, but this time another member spotted the SDS3055 FW update and linked it in that thread.
But no, it's something they don't normally do as you don't have to request Siglent FW updates, they're always freely available on each of the 3 websites: China, Europe and USA.
It's important any bugs or features that are not working properly are reported either in one of the Siglent product threads here to be relayed to Siglent or directly to Tech support via the sales email: sales@siglent.com
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@ tautech
Thank you!
i just upgrade my SDG805, does Siglent only release new FW in their website? any emails?
If I look my last 4 years cooperation with Siglent.
In history, there was no email information about new FW's.
FW updates need ask from Siglent. (also there was not public download)
After then this situation have changed better and better, lot of better if look what it have been in history. Still not enough if look future.
Time ago Siglent started public download center and today it works quite well but also this need some develop to be better, specially FW and software changelog need be more accurate.
Siglent have also started email notifications to counterparts/distributors least about important updates. Also with mandatory updates they may recommend and ask we inform directly to our customers.
Example last SDG800 series one update was in this category and Siglent send email information about this mandatory update.
Immediately after I get this message from Siglent I search who all have purchased SDG800 series from me and send email notification to every customer directly. I do not know how other sellers do.
Overall it can say that after sales customer care need develop better and better. Not only Siglent but also distributors need develop. This also may differentiate class A sellers and class C sellers. It may be also important part of product reputation.
Siglent need continuously develop themselves, and it can see they do, but it is not at all enough.
Sellers/distributors need also develop themselves. This is important part of devices overall quality. Overall quality is much more than device itself quality in carton out from factory door.
Good after sales (and pre sales) customer care is important for manufacturer reputation and brand. Equipments quality need develop, software (including FW) quality need develop, all area in customer care need develop. Also warranty fail repair or change services need develop, also repair services for user made fails need develop, spare parts distribution need develop.
Also, if go more forward, there need develop distributors and repair services product training. This Siglent journey is only just at the beginning of the way from class C to class B and lets hope that least direction is to higher class. It is fully possible. The road is long rocky and sometimes trees fall road. But journey continue... we want do it better, we can do it better, we do it better.
(edited clearer)
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Hi, i'm new, but long time forum fan :)
Just today got my new SDG1025, and i'm happy ;D
but doesn't know much about this Hardware-Version.
Latest FW (Siglent Web) is 1.1.2.1R1?
Can anyone confirm these topicalities?
Thanks a lot,
also for all these informations and experiences which i was able to benefit
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Hi, i'm new, but long time forum fan :)
Just today got my new SDG1025, and i'm happy ;D
but doesn't know much about this Hardware-Version.
Latest FW (Siglent Web) is 1.1.2.1R1?
Can anyone confirm these topicalities?
Thanks a lot,
also for all these informations and experiences which i was able to benefit
Please, do not try update SDG1000 using SDG800 FW
AFAIK, Latest for SDG1000 series is 1.01.01.37R3 !
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Please, do not try update SDG1000 using SDG800 FW
AFAIK, Latest for SDG1000 series is 1.01.01.37R3 !
Yeah right. I see. :o
Thank you rf-loop.
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Hi, i'm new, but long time forum fan :)
Just today got my new SDG1025, and i'm happy ;D
but doesn't know much about this Hardware-Version.
Hi, I am also looking for an SDG1025 and I am confused by the different designs.
The Siglent webpage shows a different design than your new SDG1025 on the photo in Reply #251.
Here is the Siglent picture:
http://www.siglent.com/ENs/generator/SDG1000 (http://www.siglent.com/ENs/generator/SDG1000)
Batronix does also show this designs:
http://www.batronix.com/shop/waveform-generator/Siglent-SDG1025.html (http://www.batronix.com/shop/waveform-generator/Siglent-SDG1025.html)
Which one is the current design? Some eBay sellers also offer the SDG1025 in the design as hwj-d has received it.
Is any of those designs HW 01-xxx and the other HW 02-xxx? Which one is which?
And is it true, that the square wave quality is fixed in HW 02-xxx, as this thread says:
http://siglent.freeforums.org/old-sdg1000-possible-improvement-for-square-wave-quality-t27.html (http://siglent.freeforums.org/old-sdg1000-possible-improvement-for-square-wave-quality-t27.html)
-milamber
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Hi, i'm new, but long time forum fan :)
Just today got my new SDG1025, and i'm happy ;D
but doesn't know much about this Hardware-Version.
Hi, I am also looking for an SDG1025 and I am confused by the different designs.
The Siglent webpage shows a different design than your new SDG1025 on the photo in Reply #251.
Here is the Siglent picture:
http://www.siglent.com/ENs/generator/SDG1000 (http://www.siglent.com/ENs/generator/SDG1000)
Batronix does also show this designs:
http://www.batronix.com/shop/waveform-generator/Siglent-SDG1025.html (http://www.batronix.com/shop/waveform-generator/Siglent-SDG1025.html)
Which one is the current design? Some eBay sellers also offer the SDG1025 in the design as hwj-d has received it.
Is any of those designs HW 01-xxx and the other HW 02-xxx? Which one is which?
And is it true, that the square wave quality is fixed in HW 02-xxx, as this thread says:
http://siglent.freeforums.org/old-sdg1000-possible-improvement-for-square-wave-quality-t27.html (http://siglent.freeforums.org/old-sdg1000-possible-improvement-for-square-wave-quality-t27.html)
-milamber
Welcome to the forum.
The front panel design is the same as it's always been, there were minor internal changes some time ago and the only other change that I'm aware of are in FW to correct bugs.
The image in reply #251 is of the device info page that shows the FW#, HW#, SN#, Boot# etc. It's accessible from within the Utilities menu and the only black screen in the UI.
The last FW update was in July last year and this suggests the bug count is now very low in these units.
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Is any of those designs HW 01-xxx and the other HW 02-xxx? Which one is which?
And is it true, that the square wave quality is fixed in HW 02-xxx, as this thread says:
http://siglent.freeforums.org/old-sdg1000-possible-improvement-for-square-wave-quality-t27.html (http://siglent.freeforums.org/old-sdg1000-possible-improvement-for-square-wave-quality-t27.html)
Perhaps you also have noted date of this information? It is History!
There was problem in very first hardware version (and this hardware is circuit inside equipment what produce waveforms. Not outer box)
It was year 2013 this whole (still quite marginal) problem with Square/rectangle wave quality.
After then Square/rectangle (Square function on generator) waveform have worked ok and quality is as specified.
There can do "square" wave or rectangle waves using two functions.
1. Square (with duty adjustment, duty adjust range depending frequency (max 20 - 80%)
2. Pulse (Also with this you can produce square wave (50% duty) or using vide range of duty. In this mode you can adjust duty % OR pulse width and interval/frequency.
These are produced very different way inside circuit. Both have disadvantages and advantages.
This can look more deeply but here now: If need very low frequencies, normally Square is better to do using Pulse function. If need higher frequencies and low cycle to cycle time jitter it is better to use Square function. Also Pulse function max frequency is 5MHz when Square function max is 25MHz.
Simply: There is not known issues with signal quality today. It works as its working principle is. (fixed lenght Arb with fixed frequency sampling and with square function, square derived from internal DAC output sinewave using conventional comparator method. Pulse function is done as pulse directly from DAC). There is specifications and afaik it do what it promise. This is today very mature product in its class.
I know something about it and one reason is that I have personally quality controlled and tested every single unit what I have sold but because Siglent can some times do small cosmetic changes example in front panel colors/shapes I can not quarantee what is just today exactly. This last live image in this forum looks like what I have last seen.
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Is it normal for my new sdg1025 to ask me to select a language every time it starts up? Does it not save this setting?
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Is it normal for my new sdg1025 to ask me to select a language every time it starts up? Does it not save this setting?
Yes.
No.
We've often asked Siglent to eliminate this feature in FW but as they sell on the international market and to a lot of learning institutions(students play tricks ;) ) they've retained this boot-up language setting on most of their entry level equipment.
1 keystroke on any button to make an adjustment overrides the language setting and normal programming returns. ;)
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Is it normal for my new sdg1025 to ask me to select a language every time it starts up? Does it not save this setting?
Yes.
No.
We've often asked Siglent to eliminate this feature in FW but as they sell on the international market and to a lot of learning institutions(students play tricks ;) ) they've retained this boot-up language setting on most of their entry level equipment.
1 keystroke on any button to make an adjustment overrides the language setting and normal programming returns. ;)
Good enough for me! I was worried I had a funky unit. 8)
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I recently returned an SDG1025.
Functionally it was fine. Square wave wasn't too great at higher frequencies, but this may be common in this price range.
My main reason for sending it back was that I couldn't tolerate the display's horrible color-scheme any longer. Your mileage may vary.
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I currently own a SDG1025 I am loving it so far but I am having a bit of an issue with it. Channel 1 DC utility can give me +/-10 volts max. Channel 2 however is only giving me a max of +/-3 volts. Is this something that is supposed to happen? Or did I possibly mess up a setting somewhere?
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I currently own a SDG1025 I am loving it so far but I am having a bit of an issue with it. Channel 1 DC utility can give me +/-10 volts max. Channel 2 however is only giving me a max of +/-3 volts. Is this something that is supposed to happen? Or did I possibly mess up a setting somewhere?
That is one of the unfortunate limitations of the SDG1000 series :palm: I have cursed it a couple of times already.
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I recently returned an SDG1025.
Functionally it was fine. Square wave wasn't too great at higher frequencies, but this may be common in this price range.
My main reason for sending it back was that I couldn't tolerate the display's horrible color-scheme any longer. Your mileage may vary.
I kind of agree with you on the colour scheme. It's not obvious what channel you are working with, and the CH1 / CH2 being backwards doesn't help. I am one of the 10% of all males that have that red/green colour blindness gene. It's really trivial in real life, but I suspect it shows up with interfaces like this. Others seem perfectly happy :-//
Anyone could always flash the LeCroy Wavestation firmware instead and then CH1/CH2 are in order and I think it has a much better colour scheme. Though you lose the frequency counter and I expect all the most recent bug fixes too.
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I currently own a SDG1025 I am loving it so far but I am having a bit of an issue with it. Channel 1 DC utility can give me +/-10 volts max. Channel 2 however is only giving me a max of +/-3 volts. Is this something that is supposed to happen? Or did I possibly mess up a setting somewhere?
That is one of the unfortunate limitations of the SDG1000 series :palm: I have cursed it a couple of times already.
IIRC the LeCroy firmware switches the CH1/CH2 purely in software, and that includes the 10v and 3v limits too. Which makes me wonder why? The individual channels hardware can do 10V just by software alone... Perhaps it's an overall power thing that is being enforced over both channels?
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I currently own a SDG1025 I am loving it so far but I am having a bit of an issue with it. Channel 1 DC utility can give me +/-10 volts max. Channel 2 however is only giving me a max of +/-3 volts. Is this something that is supposed to happen? Or did I possibly mess up a setting somewhere?
That is one of the unfortunate limitations of the SDG1000 series :palm: I have cursed it a couple of times already.
IIRC the LeCroy firmware switches the CH1/CH2 purely in software, and that includes the 10v and 3v limits too. Which makes me wonder why? The individual channels hardware can do 10V just by software alone... Perhaps it's an overall power thing that is being enforced over both channels?
Maybe, if you were real careful with it, if could be possible to remove the limit and have both channels support 10 volts then right?
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I just received a new SDG1010. Apologies if these things have been mentioned here before, but I found
(a) There's a fan, even on the 10MHz instrument. It's substantially quieter than the fan in my scope, though, so no worries.
(b) It's possible to get rid of the Select Language prompt at power-on by doing Utility / System / PowerOn=Last. That also makes it remember the last waveform settings at power-on.
(c) There's a bandwidth upgrade option accessible at Util / Bandwidth Update. It prompts for a 'license' before it will update the bandwidth. But that tells us anyway that at least some of the higher bandwidth models share the same hardware. 10MHz is plenty for me, so I won't be going there.
Utlity / EditInfo tells me I have Softwre version 1.01.01.37R3 and Hardware version 04-00-00-23-28.
As a first impression, I think it's very decently made for the price.
-- Mike
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I just received a new SDG1010. Apologies if these things have been mentioned here before, but I found
(a) There's a fan, even on the 10MHz instrument. It's substantially quieter than the fan in my scope, though, so no worries.
Interesting, thanks for that info.
My demo 1010 that's ~3 yrs old doesn't have a fan, obviously Siglent have now added one for when they decide to make BW upgrades available.
BTW welcome to the forum.
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Latest SDG800 series FW update:
Version: P12R2
http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/Labview/SDG800%20P12R2%20EN.rar (http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/Labview/SDG800%20P12R2%20EN.rar)
22.3 Mb
Changelog from the website:
Fixed some bugs:
a) A bug in file system could cause the generator never startup
b) Can not wake up from screen saver from time to time
c) A bug which will cause the instrument stay at boot Screen
d) Some Typo in English Help system
Edit
Please note the Firmware Update Instructions need be followed.
There are specific instructions depending on the FW version that exists in your unit.
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Just received my SDG830 that I had ordered online from amazon.com. I paid $242.00 which I thought they had made a mistake on the model number, and I was not sure they would send the right one, but sure enough it was the 830!! :) The first thing I did was update the firmware to the latest version. Coming from a "heath kit" signal generator I had bought and assembled back in the very early 80, the Siglent 830 is far more cooler. My scope which is a very old Tektroinx's 422 will be my next upgrade. Not to sure which way I go on that, but the "Rigol" DS1054Z is looking to be my best bet.
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Just received my SDG830 that I had ordered online from amazon.com. I paid $242.00 which I thought they had made a mistake on the model number, and I was not sure they would send the right one, but sure enough it was the 830!! :) The first thing I did was update the firmware to the latest version. Coming from a "heath kit" signal generator I had bought and assembled back in the very early 80, the Siglent 830 is far more cooler. My scope which is a very old Tektroinx's 422 will be my next upgrade. Not to sure which way I go on that, but the "Rigol" DS1054Z is looking to be my best bet.
That's an outstandingly good price, the RRP on the Siglent US website is $332. $90 less :scared:
Have you installed the FW Version P12R2 linked above? It's an important one.
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Yes I did. It came with 1.08 , and now it says 1.08.01.12R2. Not sure what all the update gives me over the old, but I am sure it is good. Does the "P" in the FW mean it is different than what I have ?
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Yes I did. It came with 1.08 , and now it says 1.08.01.12R2. Not sure what all the update gives me over the old, but I am sure it is good. Does the "P" in the FW mean it is different than what I have ?
No, not at all. When we talk of FW updates we generally just leave the "P" out, it was just that I had copied and pasted from above which was pasted from the website. ;)
The FW changelogs describe the fixes.
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I looked through my accessories, which came with the Siglent SDG 1025 (CD and so forth), and didn't find the EasyTest software mentioned in the service manual for calibrating the signal generator.
Without it not much can be done, can't it ? Does anyone have this software or can it be downloaded somewhere ? Didn't find anything on the Net yet ?
How do you calibrate the unit, which seems to be doable only through a software interface mentionend in the service manual.
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I looked through my accessories, which came with the Siglent SDG 1025 (CD and so forth), and didn't find the EasyTest software mentioned in the service manual for calibrating the signal generator.
Without it not much can be done, can't it ? Does anyone have this software or can it be downloaded somewhere ? Didn't find anything on the Net yet ?
How do you calibrate the unit, which seems to be doable only through a software interface mentionend in the service manual.
So does the unit no longer meet advertised specs? :-//
Have you run the internal self cal?
Does the UI report any error?
How old is your unit, Siglent products have three years warranty.
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I do regular calibrations on almost all my equipment as a standard procedure as a good habit.
The same is recommended by everyone else including manufacturing.
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I looked through my accessories, which came with the Siglent SDG 1025 (CD and so forth), and didn't find the EasyTest software mentioned in the service manual for calibrating the signal generator.
Without it not much can be done, can't it ? Does anyone have this software or can it be downloaded somewhere ? Didn't find anything on the Net yet ?
How do you calibrate the unit, which seems to be doable only through a software interface mentionend in the service manual.
So does the unit no longer meet advertised specs? :-//
Have you run the internal self cal?
Does the UI report any error?
How old is your unit, Siglent products have three years warranty.
Sorry but this is a pretty shit response. The fact is that test equipment has to be calibrated, and if out of cal it should have an adjustment procedure that any lab can do. Siglent even say in their own documentation that they have software available "EasyTest" to do this.
There is no reason why anyone should not be able to self calibrate their instruments either. Especially closed case using SCPI. I can do this with all my "proper" test equipment, HP, Agilent, Keithley, all well documented and freely available. Even Rigol publish the calibration procedure for the DP800 and DM3000 series PSU's and DMM's.
Of course if Siglent just make throw away toys for the landfill then thats just fine. Keep defending that ideology.
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I looked through my accessories, which came with the Siglent SDG 1025 (CD and so forth), and didn't find the EasyTest software mentioned in the service manual for calibrating the signal generator.
Without it not much can be done, can't it ? Does anyone have this software or can it be downloaded somewhere ? Didn't find anything on the Net yet ?
How do you calibrate the unit, which seems to be doable only through a software interface mentionend in the service manual.
So does the unit no longer meet advertised specs? :-//
Have you run the internal self cal?
Does the UI report any error?
How old is your unit, Siglent products have three years warranty.
Sorry but this is a pretty shit response. The fact is that test equipment has to be calibrated, and if out of cal it should have an adjustment procedure that any lab can do. Siglent even say in their own documentation that they have software available "EasyTest" to do this.
There is no reason why anyone should not be able to self calibrate their instruments either. Especially closed case using SCPI. I can do this with all my "proper" test equipment, HP, Agilent, Keithley, all well documented and freely available. Even Rigol publish the calibration procedure for the DP800 and DM3000 series PSU's and DMM's.
Of course if Siglent just make throw away toys for the landfill then thats just fine. Keep defending that ideology.
Maybe you should modify your post. See this Service manual, from page 22, you will see Siglent list all the instruments for calibration and also the calibration procedure.
http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Documents/service_manual/SDG1000_ServiceManual_SM02010-E01B.pdf (http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Documents/service_manual/SDG1000_ServiceManual_SM02010-E01B.pdf)
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I do regular calibrations on almost all my equipment as a standard procedure as a good habit.
The same is recommended by everyone else including manufacturing.
hallo, I think you should contact Siglent directly. I also have this kind of question. Let us know please.
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I looked through my accessories, which came with the Siglent SDG 1025 (CD and so forth), and didn't find the EasyTest software mentioned in the service manual for calibrating the signal generator.
Without it not much can be done, can't it ? Does anyone have this software or can it be downloaded somewhere ? Didn't find anything on the Net yet ?
How do you calibrate the unit, which seems to be doable only through a software interface mentionend in the service manual.
So does the unit no longer meet advertised specs? :-//
Have you run the internal self cal?
Does the UI report any error?
How old is your unit, Siglent products have three years warranty.
Sorry but this is a pretty shit response. The fact is that test equipment has to be calibrated, and if out of cal it should have an adjustment procedure that any lab can do. Siglent even say in their own documentation that they have software available "EasyTest" to do this.
There is no reason why anyone should not be able to self calibrate their instruments either. Especially closed case using SCPI. I can do this with all my "proper" test equipment, HP, Agilent, Keithley, all well documented and freely available. Even Rigol publish the calibration procedure for the DP800 and DM3000 series PSU's and DMM's.
Of course if Siglent just make throw away toys for the landfill then thats just fine. Keep defending that ideology.
Maybe you should modify your post. See this Service manual, from page 22, you will see Siglent list all the instruments for calibration and also the calibration procedure.
http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Documents/service_manual/SDG1000_ServiceManual_SM02010-E01B.pdf (http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Documents/service_manual/SDG1000_ServiceManual_SM02010-E01B.pdf)
Maybe?
:-DD
Macbeth is on another planet IMO. ::)
I asked burkm a few quite reasonable questions that he has not made any attempt to answer, maybe there's a language problem, I don't really know? :-//
Siglent Tech support (and I am not) would ask exactly these questions in an effort to establish what problem, if any exists.
So I'll ask burkm again:
Does the unit no longer meet advertised specs?
Have you run the internal self cal?
Does the User Interface report any error?
How old is your unit, Siglent products have three years warranty.
So I'll rephrase that:
Is your unit still in warranty?
What is the purchase date?
5 simple questions need be answered before further appropriate advice can wisely be given.
@ burkm
I have never needed or ever been offered any Siglent calibration software, but if we can establish that you require it and I can source it I will attempt to provide it for you.
That been said, I do not know if it is restricted software for Calibration labs but in due course we will discover the software status.
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I do not know if it is restricted software for Calibration labs but in due course we will discover the software status.
Not want OT but just sidenote: Have you looked up to date SDG2000X Service Manual. ;)
Python, NI... etc.+
But overall, imho, we need some serious and wise discussing about calibration related things.
Least it need also look with manufacturer eyes (who is also responsible about product warraanty)Then it need look with distributtor/seller/service eeyes and then, importantly, also it need look with "end user" eyes. Also need look with: who is responsible in different cases if some unwanted things happend when doing adjustments.
These all are bit different cases and need bit different approach angle.
Is it also good that Siglent improve calibration/adjustment system so that it also keep nonvolatile log inside equipment and it can show cal counter/id visible in system status screen or something like this. In some places equipmeents need valid cal certificate. If cal is not secured how certificate can know it is valid and after then no one have done failed cal. How to secure it.
But I think it is better to start with dedicated thread for these manifold things around cal..
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Maybe you should modify your post. See this Service manual, from page 22, you will see Siglent list all the instruments for calibration and also the calibration procedure.
http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Documents/service_manual/SDG1000_ServiceManual_SM02010-E01B.pdf (http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Documents/service_manual/SDG1000_ServiceManual_SM02010-E01B.pdf)
Maybe you should read the thread - the calibration procedure requires "EasyTest" software. This has so far been "unobtanium" - Even tautech, a Siglent distributor, has never set eyes on a copy. I don't know if rf-loop has it either. Why it isn't provided as a download alongside the ServiceManual document that references it I don't know? ... and yes I have asked Siglent in the past and just got no response.
Do I need it right now this second? No. But in a couple of years when Siglent will have dropped all support... Yes, I am pretty sure... Only nobody will have a copy of this elusive software when they finally need it.
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Maybe you should modify your post. See this Service manual, from page 22, you will see Siglent list all the instruments for calibration and also the calibration procedure.
http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Documents/service_manual/SDG1000_ServiceManual_SM02010-E01B.pdf (http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Documents/service_manual/SDG1000_ServiceManual_SM02010-E01B.pdf)
Maybe you should read the thread - the calibration procedure requires "EasyTest" software. This has so far been "unobtanium" - Even tautech, a Siglent distributor, has never set eyes on a copy. I don't know if rf-loop has it either. Why it isn't provided as a download alongside the ServiceManual document that references it I don't know? ... and yes I have asked Siglent in the past and just got no response.
Do I need it right now this second? No. But in a couple of years when Siglent will have dropped all support... Yes, I am pretty sure... Only nobody will have a copy of this elusive software when they finally need it.
Again you talk with a hole in your head. :palm:
Please re-read the posts.
FYI, I have never had the need to ask for Easy Test nor would I (and most other distributors) have all the reference equipment required for specific models and series of Siglent gear. Each unit has specific required references as outlined in the factory Calibration certificates that I doubt other than Cal labs would own.
So, no way would I attempt to Calibrate any Siglent equipment, we have a good Cal lab not far from me whom with Siglent's authorization we would appoint to ensure equipment meets manufacturers specification.
Anything less is a half-arsed job IMHO. :--
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Maybe?
:-DD
Macbeth is on another planet IMO. ::)
I'm on another planet? Perhaps you would like to read the calibration and adjustment procedure from Siglents own manual and try and figure out what planet they are on?
I asked burkm a few quite reasonable questions that he has not made any attempt to answer, maybe there's a language problem, I don't really know? :-//
Siglent Tech support (and I am not) would ask exactly these questions in an effort to establish what problem, if any exists.
Why do you think there has to be a problem with the instrument? burkm quite reasonably wants to know how it is possible to calibrate and adjust his instrument exactly as Siglent not only state, but RECOMMEND in their own document...
Calibration Interval
The instrument should be calibrated on a regular interval determined by the
measurement accuracy requirements of your application. A 1-year interval is
adequate for most applications. Accuracy specifications will remain valid only if
adjustment is made at regular calibration intervals. Accuracy specifications are
not valid beyond the 1-year calibration interval. SIGLENT does not recommend
extending calibration intervals beyond 2 years for any application.
Adjustment is Recommended
Specifications are valid only within the period from the last adjustment.
Whatever calibration interval you select, SIGLENT recommends that
re-adjustment should be always performed within the calibration interval. This
is necessary to ensure the accuracy of the performance data measured during
the calibration interval.
So Siglent clearly highly recommend not just a performance test but actual adjustment every year (or 2 years max).
They then go on to explain how to do this using the elusive "EasyTest" and even more mysterious "script prepared previously" (Where, when, by whom?) :-DD
For the avoidance of doubt, I do not expect a distributor such as yourself to do this and it is clear burkm doesn't either. This is something an end user can do providing they are suitably competent and have the equipment to do it. If not then they can use their own organisations calibration facilities or farm it out to a third party provider.
I have previously asked Siglent for this "EasyTest" and got nowhere. I'm pretty sure no calibration facility has this proprietary stuff either.
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They then go on to explain how to do this using the elusive "EasyTest" and even more mysterious "script prepared previously" (Where, when, by whom?)
Translate to your laguage words "script", "prepared" and "previously". (perhaps "previously" is confusing you but there it is just under your eyes if you read this manual.
I have previously asked Siglent for this "EasyTest" and got nowhere
What is this "got" and "nowhere"?
Overall after reading these comments I'm quite sure EasyTest software for these named equipments must never set for public distribution.
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I'm pretty sure no calibration facility has this proprietary stuff either.
And wrong again:
The US use Transcat for Siglent calibration:
http://www.transcat.com/brand/siglent?cat=3 (http://www.transcat.com/brand/siglent?cat=3)
As stated in this thread, from nearly a year ago:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-797-siglent-sds1000x-review/msg763096/#msg763096 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-797-siglent-sds1000x-review/msg763096/#msg763096)
If Siglent owners need calibration services then it is best they contact their local Siglent dealer for recommendations as to where this can be achieved. Period.
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This thread has just changed my decision to buy siglent gear.
Thanks for your help in staying away from this gear.
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Well, well well... I decided to skip going through all the dealers and go straight for Siglent HQ. I got a fantastic response from a really nice guy - Siglent do not use a proprietary .exe "EasyTest" - but a really nice calibration and adjustment suite written in Python with Microsoft Excel documents for the results.
He apologised that there are many prompts in Chinese - this is the exact code that Shenzen use for factory production use after all. Looking at the code there is nothing to apologise for! It's all written in very clear English and nicely structured.
Now it is only written for specific equipment but in a very nice manner that will let you add your own Python equipment library for example. It scans the VISA network and use *IDN? to determine if suitable DMM, Scope and Power Meter are available.
I've asked for permission to publish on EEV. After all, some dealers appear to have a "gatekeeper" attitude and I don't want to step on their toes.
But for providing excellent information for their test gear then I am a Siglent fan again! :-+
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Further general info on Siglent equipment re-calibration posted here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/msg986796/?topicseen#msg986796 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/msg986796/?topicseen#msg986796)
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Hi all,
I've been playing around a bit with my SDG805. I don't know if it's been noted elsewhere but I found a serial console on the debug header. You can dump yourself into uboot and dump flash/play around from there. You can also access the SD card. I guess the SD card might be used for flashing the latest firmware versions during production as there's code to flash from the SD card. My notes are here:
http://41j.com/blog/2016/08/hacking-around-with-a-sdg800-sdg805/ (http://41j.com/blog/2016/08/hacking-around-with-a-sdg800-sdg805/)
Now in the process of reflashing uboot as I hosed the flash! Seems like there are multiple options for de-bricking the AM335x. But if anyone happens to have a complete flash dump knocking around that would be handy.
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Hi all,
I've been playing around a bit with my SDG805. I don't know if it's been noted elsewhere but I found a serial console on the debug header. You can dump yourself into uboot and dump flash/play around from there. You can also access the SD card. I guess the SD card might be used for flashing the latest firmware versions during production as there's code to flash from the SD card. My notes are here:
http://41j.com/blog/2016/08/hacking-around-with-a-sdg800-sdg805/ (http://41j.com/blog/2016/08/hacking-around-with-a-sdg800-sdg805/)
Now in the process of reflashing uboot as I hosed the flash! Seems like there are multiple options for de-bricking the AM335x. But if anyone happens to have a complete flash dump knocking around that would be handy.
Oh dear.
A similar thing happened here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/msg996590/#msg996590 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/msg996590/#msg996590)
Sorry I don't have the file to help you, maybe another member can pull the files you need.
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I've been hacking around trying to recover my SDG805 after hosing the flash. I've now been able to recover my system and my notes are written here:
http://41j.com/blog/2016/08/sdg800-recovering-from-a-hosed-u-boot/ (http://41j.com/blog/2016/08/sdg800-recovering-from-a-hosed-u-boot/)
Weirdly after recovering the flash and updating to the latest version it now identifies as a SDG830 and the standard menus go to 30MHz. Not hugely useful considering you can output 30MHz sinewaves etc on the SDG805 using arb mode but kind of interesting.
btw, in the process of trying to recover the system I asked Siglent for the source code of the GPL software used in the SDG805 (including u-boot) they refuse to provide it which is kind of a shame (and a violation of the GPL of course).
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Hi all, I purchased a SDG-1025, which has been working nicely. And I have ordered a second hand 82357B USB-GPIB adapter, which is on its way - but I don't even know if I actually need this adapter or not.
My barrier right now is..... I tried to figure out what I need to do for getting the SDG-1025 to work with GPIB. The user manual indicates 'GPIB-optional', but that's about it. I google 'SDG-1025 GPIB', and look for videos or images that could give hints about what hardware is needed (eg. a photo of a cable connection, or a GPIB-adapter connected to a SDG-1025). I wasn't able to find anything like that. I have not found a single photo on the internet (or anywhere) that even shows a SIGLENT device (of any kind) connected via a GPIB interface/adapter etc. Maybe there is something in this.
Then I came across this thread here, which could be really handy.
If anybody has successfully used their SDG-1025 (or SDG-1000 series) to work with GPIB, then could you please point me in the right direction about what hardware I need to buy? In particular, the user manual says 'gpib optional'. Does that mean I need to purchase a hardware GPIB card that needs to be physically installed in the SDG-1025? Or does that mean I can connect the USB end of a 82357B USB-GPIB adapter into the front-side USB port of the SDG-1025, and the other end of the adapter to a GPIB-card (attached to a computer/PC)?
Thanks for any help in advance! Nice to have found this thread in EEVblog.
-
Hi all, I purchased a SDG-1025, which has been working nicely. And I have ordered a second hand 82357B USB-GPIB adapter, which is on its way - but I don't even know if I actually need this adapter or not.
My barrier right now is..... I tried to figure out what I need to do for getting the SDG-1025 to work with GPIB. The user manual indicates 'GPIB-optional', but that's about it. I google 'SDG-1025 GPIB', and look for videos or images that could give hints about what hardware is needed (eg. a photo of a cable connection, or a GPIB-adapter connected to a SDG-1025). I wasn't able to find anything like that. I have not found a single photo on the internet (or anywhere) that even shows a SIGLENT device (of any kind) connected via a GPIB interface/adapter etc. Maybe there is something in this.
Then I came across this thread here, which could be really handy.
If anybody has successfully used their SDG-1025 (or SDG-1000 series) to work with GPIB, then could you please point me in the right direction about what hardware I need to buy? In particular, the user manual says 'gpib optional'. Does that mean I need to purchase a hardware GPIB card that needs to be physically installed in the SDG-1025? Or does that mean I can connect the USB end of a 82357B USB-GPIB adapter into the front-side USB port of the SDG-1025, and the other end of the adapter to a GPIB-card (attached to a computer/PC)?
Thanks for any help in advance! Nice to have found this thread in EEVblog.
Welcome to the forum.
On the Siglent websites there is this:
http://www.siglentamerica.com/prodcut-fjxx.aspx?fjid=370&id=145&tid=16&T=2 (http://www.siglentamerica.com/prodcut-fjxx.aspx?fjid=370&id=145&tid=16&T=2)
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Welcome to the forum.
On the Siglent websites there is this:
http://www.siglentamerica.com/prodcut-fjxx.aspx?fjid=370&id=145&tid=16&T=2 (http://www.siglentamerica.com/prodcut-fjxx.aspx?fjid=370&id=145&tid=16&T=2)
Hi tautech! Thanks very much for your kind help! That device will be exactly what I need.
This suggests that at least one of the USB ports of the SDG-1025 can connect to the external interface adapter. I'll see if my 82357B adapter (soon to arrive) will work once it gets here. If not, then that siglent USB-GPIB adapter should definitely get me the right path. Thanks very much again! Greatly appreciated.
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Welcome to the forum.
On the Siglent websites there is this:
http://www.siglentamerica.com/prodcut-fjxx.aspx?fjid=370&id=145&tid=16&T=2 (http://www.siglentamerica.com/prodcut-fjxx.aspx?fjid=370&id=145&tid=16&T=2)
Hi tautech! Thanks very much for your kind help! That device will be exactly what I need.
This suggests that at least one of the USB ports of the SDG-1025 can connect to the external interface adapter. I'll see if my 82357B adapter (soon to arrive) will work once it gets here. If not, then that siglent USB-GPIB adapter should definitely get me the right path. Thanks very much again! Greatly appreciated.
The only bugbear with the Siglent GPIB adapter is the USB plug is USB-A which then ties up the front panel USB socket. We've made suggestions that they change it to USB-B so that it can be used in the rear USB socket, leaving the front panel socket free. Would make for a tidier installation too. ;)
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The only bugbear with the Siglent GPIB adapter is the USB plug is USB-A which then ties up the front panel USB socket. We've made suggestions that they change it to USB-B so that it can be used in the rear USB socket, leaving the front panel socket free. Would make for a tidier installation too. ;)
Nice suggestion tautech! I thought I read somewhere that one of the USB ports (maybe the rear port) had some different capabilities as compared with the front port. I think I need to find the source of that reading source, just to see what they meant. But, if both the front type A female port and the rear type B female port have identical USB capabilities, then making the siglent adapter have a type B male plug would be very nice.
Otherwise, a female type A to male type B adapter could possibly be used with the current version of the siglent adapter. Or maybe the siglent type A male plug can be snipped off, and a type B male plug could be fitted/soldered to the cable. Thanks again tautech!
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Forgive me but I am wondering why (expensive, near obsolete) GPIB is a requirement in this day and age when USBTMC is available and a VISA driver doesn't care if your instrument is connected using GPIB, RS232, USB or LAN?
I am yet to indulge in a GPIB->USB adaptor but I am sure I will need it one day with very old equipment, just so I can plug it into my USB hub much like my Serial->USB leads. But it seems SouthPark's requirements are the opposite way around? - Siglent USB -> GPIB
No criticism, there must be a good reason?
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Forgive me but I am wondering why (expensive, near obsolete) GPIB is a requirement in this day and age when USBTMC is available and a VISA driver doesn't care if your instrument is connected using GPIB, RS232, USB or LAN?
I am yet to indulge in a GPIB->USB adaptor but I am sure I will need it one day with very old equipment, just so I can plug it into my USB hub much like my Serial->USB leads. But it seems SouthPark's requirements are the opposite way around? - Siglent USB -> GPIB
No criticism, there must be a good reason?
I too wondered why SP needs GPIB and he didn't get one of the new X series models with their additional LAN connectivity, bigger displays and increased and improved functionality, but all this comes at additional cost that some can't justify. Maybe that ? :-//
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Forgive me but I am wondering why (expensive, near obsolete) GPIB is a requirement in this day and age when USBTMC is available and a VISA driver doesn't care if your instrument is connected using GPIB, RS232, USB or LAN?
I am yet to indulge in a GPIB->USB adaptor but I am sure I will need it one day with very old equipment, just so I can plug it into my USB hub much like my Serial->USB leads. But it seems SouthPark's requirements are the opposite way around? - Siglent USB -> GPIB
No criticism, there must be a good reason?
Thanks for contributing Macbeth! If I have a bunch of GPIB devices, is it possible to use this USB-TMC method to link them all in? For example, use a single GPIB-USB adapter and plug the GPIB connector end into a GPIB function generator, and daisy-chain that GPIB bus to other GPIB instruments, and the USB connector (of the GPIB-USB adapter) connects to a computer/PC. And the computer will be able to see all the devices and control them all, right?
And if we have a bunch of instruments having USB-TMC capability, then we just need a USB hub to connect them all together, right?
If that can be done, then I'll be too happy to go for that method. I didn't know about USB-TMC before.
My SDG-1025 user manual just says "To Set IO, Press Utility ? IO Setup, to set the IO interface. The equipment stands for RAW protocol and TMC protocol, user may setup corresponding protocol by IO Setup."
Your contribution is truly appreciated, because things are now becoming more clear to me about how to best use the SDG-1025 together with other instruments (like GPIB instruments). Thanks Macbeth!
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I too wondered why SP needs GPIB and he didn't get one of the new X series models with their additional LAN connectivity, bigger displays and increased and improved functionality, but all this comes at additional cost that some can't justify. Maybe that ? :-//
hahaha! Seriously, (genuinely), I think it's a case about me being a little behind the times!!! But it's really tremendous that you and MacBeth are showing how to control these instruments with the USB capabilities. I'm starting to understand that there are more up-to-date options now.
I did purchase an HP 82357B adapter (for about AU$100), which I was assuming that I would need to plug the USB end into the SDG-1025 and the GPIB-end of the adapter to a GPIB-card (at the computer side). But now, it appears that I could just use a USB cable to connect the SDG-1025 directly to a PC (computer), and then use Labview to control the SDG-1025.
Oh well. But maybe all is not lost. I have a HP 53181A frequency counter. Maybe I can plug the GPIB-end of the HP 82357B adapter into this frequency counter, and then plug the USB end of the adapter to a PC, which would let me control the GPIB frequency counter without any need for a GPIB card?
Thanks you guys!
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Thanks for contributing Macbeth! If I have a bunch of GPIB devices, is it possible to use this USB-TMC method to link them all in? For example, use a single GPIB-USB adapter and plug the GPIB connector end into a GPIB function generator, and daisy-chain that GPIB bus to other GPIB instruments, and the USB connector (of the GPIB-USB adapter) connects to a computer/PC. And the computer will be able to see all the devices and control them all, right?
And if we have a bunch of instruments having USB-TMC capability, then we just need a USB hub to connect them all together, right?
Yes. Things have become much easier with instruments with USB-TMC or even a LAN interface. No more need for expensive GPIB interfaces and cables. Also it shouldn't be hard to interface either with or without the VISA layer because after all the communication is just ASCII text and (escaped) binary.
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Yes. A good USB-GPIB adapter like an Agilent 82357B will allow your PC to control many GPIB instruments in a daisy chain using its USB to the PC rather than the old ISA or PCI bus cards. It will not work in reverse to allow a Siglent SDG1025 USB to GPIB - you will need the specific Siglent device for that.
You can also just use a straight USB lead for modern devices. These can not be daisy chained but will just need a USB hub instead if your PC doesn't already have enough USB ports.
Older instruments with just a GPIB and an RS232 interface (like my Keithley 2000) can be connected to a USB hub using a super cheap Serial-USB lead.
Then there are LAN or LXI devices which can just be plugged into your network router/switch.
On your PC you should have a VISA driver like NI-VISA or Keysight I/O on Windows, or use Python pyVISA instead (good for Linux).
Now there are some instruments out there that do need GPIB (or HPIB) to communicate amongst themselves, but that is pretty much proprietary like Hewlett Packard from the 1980's. There is no way Siglent have that stuff in their GPIB implementation.
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I did purchase an HP 82357B adapter (for about AU$100), which I was assuming that I would need to plug the USB end into the SDG-1025 and the GPIB-end of the adapter to a GPIB-card (at the computer side). But now, it appears that I could just use a USB cable to connect the SDG-1025 directly to a PC (computer), and then use Labview to control the SDG-1025.
Correct.
There's 2 common methods used for remote control.
Siglent's EasyWave that not all like, but with it you also need NIVISA for the USB drivers contained within.
http://www.siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=2596&tid=14 (http://www.siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=2596&tid=14)
LabVIEW and the specific drivers for all the Siglent products are here:
http://www.siglentamerica.com/gjjrj.aspx?id=204 (http://www.siglentamerica.com/gjjrj.aspx?id=204)
The Programming manual with the command set should be on the shipped CD.
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Some people might be interested in knowing -
There is a brand new FW update for the Siglent SDG1000 generators that removes the requirement of having to select a language at boot-up. (This is for models such as the SDG1025, SDG1050. This FW is not for the newer SDG1000X series of generators).
It can be found here:
http://siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=4997&tid=15 (http://siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=4997&tid=15)
-
Some people might be interested in knowing -
There is a brand new FW update for the Siglent SDG1000 generators that removes the requirement of having to select a language at boot-up. (This is for models such as the SDG1025, SDG1050. This FW is not for the newer SDG1000X series of generators).
It can be found here:
http://siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=4997&tid=15 (http://siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=4997&tid=15)
:-+
:clap:
Great, we've been asking for this. Thanks.
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Any other changes?
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Any other changes?
That was the only thing listed in the log so I believe that is the only change.
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This is nice.. not. I updated and now everything is in Chinese..
can someone guide me through the menu's to set it back to English?
Much appreciated!!
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This is nice.. not. I updated and now everything is in Chinese..
can someone guide me through the menu's to set it back to English?
Much appreciated!!
I already managed to go back to English. If the same happens to you :
- press utility
- go to the second page (press 1/3)
- press the button below 2/3 (which is System)
- press the language button, the langauge shows in white.
- keep pressing it until you get English
phew.
-
Some people might be interested in knowing -
There is a brand new FW update for the Siglent SDG1000 generators that removes the requirement of having to select a language at boot-up. (This is for models such as the SDG1025, SDG1050. This FW is not for the newer SDG1000X series of generators).
It can be found here:
http://siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=4997&tid=15 (http://siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=4997&tid=15)
OK, I updated to this version 1.1.1.38R2, seems to work fine, but the previous version 1.1.1.37R3 (more than one year old) also does not ask for the language at boot-up on my SDG1025!?
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OK, I updated to this version 1.1.1.38R2, seems to work fine, but the previous version 1.1.1.37R3 (more than one year old) also does not ask for the language at boot-up on my SDG1025!?
It's a storm in a teacup - the immediately previous updates had a choice of Chinese/English on boot. I imagine the target market for Siglent is China EE universities, while our western uni's are spending time on far more serious and important stuff like Inter-sectional feminism, Cultural appropriation, BLM, infinite gender pronouns, etc.
I'm just a dick who never went to Uni and even I worked out the reason why Siglent had the dual China/English switch on display (Market = Education - doh!) and also found the well publicized method of fixing it.
It seems absurd that Siglent would just "fix" this issue to make it default to Chinese unless their previous dual language setup confused their home market so much?
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OK, I updated to this version 1.1.1.38R2, seems to work fine, but the previous version 1.1.1.37R3 (more than one year old) also does not ask for the language at boot-up on my SDG1025!?
It's a storm in a teacup - the immediately previous updates had a choice of Chinese/English on boot. I imagine the target market for Siglent is China EE universities, while our western uni's are spending time on far more serious and important stuff like Inter-sectional feminism, Cultural appropriation, BLM, infinite gender pronouns, etc.
I'm just a dick who never went to Uni and even I worked out the reason why Siglent had the dual China/English switch on display (Market = Education - doh!) and also found the well publicized method of fixing it.
It seems absurd that Siglent would just "fix" this issue to make it default to Chinese unless their previous dual language setup confused their home market so much?
Yes it does. :-//
Haven't had a chance to update my SDG1010 yet but when I do if it defaults to Mandarin they'll be hearing about it. :box:
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Haven't had a chance to update my SDG1010 yet but when I do if it defaults to Mandarin they'll be hearing about it. :box:
After the update to 1.1.1.38R2 the default language after the first reboot is: Mandarin ! :-DD
And yes, I needed the help of Reply #309 !
Be sure that you set the default state to "Last" after change to English language.
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Haven't had a chance to update my SDG1010 yet but when I do if it defaults to Mandarin they'll be hearing about it. :box:
After the update to 1.1.1.38R2 the default language after the first reboot is: Mandarin ! :-DD
And yes, I needed the help of Reply #309 !
Be sure that you set the default state to "Last" after change to English language.
Confirmed. >:(
Why would they do that ? :-//
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Haven't had a chance to update my SDG1010 yet but when I do if it defaults to Mandarin they'll be hearing about it. :box:
After the update to 1.1.1.38R2 the default language after the first reboot is: Mandarin ! :-DD
And yes, I needed the help of Reply #309 !
Be sure that you set the default state to "Last" after change to English language.
Confirmed. >:(
Why would they do that ? :-//
because of "Yolo" (https://www.eevblog.com/2015/12/03/eevblog-826-siglent-ceo-eric-qin-visits-the-eevblog-lab/ (https://www.eevblog.com/2015/12/03/eevblog-826-siglent-ceo-eric-qin-visits-the-eevblog-lab/))
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Haven't had a chance to update my SDG1010 yet but when I do if it defaults to Mandarin they'll be hearing about it. :box:
After the update to 1.1.1.38R2 the default language after the first reboot is: Mandarin ! :-DD
And yes, I needed the help of Reply #309 !
Be sure that you set the default state to "Last" after change to English language.
Confirmed. >:(
Why would they do that ? :-//
because of "Yolo" (https://www.eevblog.com/2015/12/03/eevblog-826-siglent-ceo-eric-qin-visits-the-eevblog-lab/ (https://www.eevblog.com/2015/12/03/eevblog-826-siglent-ceo-eric-qin-visits-the-eevblog-lab/))
I doubt very much if Eric has any clue about this, but I do know this FW and its default to Mandarin is on his Product Managers desk. :horse:
-
Some people might be interested in knowing -
There is a brand new FW update for the Siglent SDG1000 generators that removes the requirement of having to select a language at boot-up. (This is for models such as the SDG1025, SDG1050. This FW is not for the newer SDG1000X series of generators).
It can be found here:
http://siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=4997&tid=15 (http://siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=4997&tid=15)
OK, I updated to this version 1.1.1.38R2, seems to work fine, but the previous version 1.1.1.37R3 (more than one year old) also does not ask for the language at boot-up on my SDG1025!?
I also updated to 38R2 but comparing to 37R3 now I can not set dbm at Ampl menu because it appears the word "cancel" instead of "dbm". Any suggestion? Can I go back to 37R3? Regards.
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Some people might be interested in knowing -
There is a brand new FW update for the Siglent SDG1000 generators that removes the requirement of having to select a language at boot-up. (This is for models such as the SDG1025, SDG1050. This FW is not for the newer SDG1000X series of generators).
It can be found here:
http://siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=4997&tid=15 (http://siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=4997&tid=15)
OK, I updated to this version 1.1.1.38R2, seems to work fine, but the previous version 1.1.1.37R3 (more than one year old) also does not ask for the language at boot-up on my SDG1025!?
I also updated to 38R2 but comparing to 37R3 now I can not set dbm at Ampl menu because it appears the word "cancel" instead of "dbm". Any suggestion? Can I go back to 37R3? Regards.
Not tested with this model (but with SDG5000). Check that output level display is set for 50ohm.
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Some people might be interested in knowing -
There is a brand new FW update for the Siglent SDG1000 generators that removes the requirement of having to select a language at boot-up. (This is for models such as the SDG1025, SDG1050. This FW is not for the newer SDG1000X series of generators).
It can be found here:
http://siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=4997&tid=15 (http://siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=4997&tid=15)
OK, I updated to this version 1.1.1.38R2, seems to work fine, but the previous version 1.1.1.37R3 (more than one year old) also does not ask for the language at boot-up on my SDG1025!?
I also updated to 38R2 but comparing to 37R3 now I can not set dbm at Ampl menu because it appears the word "cancel" instead of "dbm". Any suggestion? Can I go back to 37R3? Regards.
Not tested with this model (but with SDG5000). Check that output level display is set for 50ohm.
You are absolutely right. It is necessary to "declare" what is the load (50 ohm in my case) to have the "dbm" in the Ampl menu.
Thanks and regards.
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Hi,
it looks like the video for the TCXO modification is gone.
Can someone supply a picture, where exactly the jumper has to be placed?
As far as I can remember, it is between one contact for the original chrystal and the TCXO.
Regards
Chris
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I have found the attached picture of the mod, which is probably from a rebranded unit.
Can anyone confirm, that this is the right way to implement a 25MHz tcxo to a SDG1025?
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Yes, that looks right.
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Hi everyone,
I had my old channel deleted.
Here is the video in my new youtube channel.
https://youtu.be/CIpSlJEBMEo
Enjoy!
Does anyone know how to update the original link?
It seems I can't edit my own old post
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Hi everyone,
I had my old channel deleted.
Here is the video in my new youtube channel.
Enjoy!
Does anyone know how to update the original link?
It seems I can't edit my own old post
Not sure if you have to get to 5 posts and past Newbie, but we all can by using the Modify button on our existing posts.
If that won't work, hit the Report button on your post and ask one of the moderators to help you.
If you add the new link to your report it might be faster and simpler for them to just add it to the old post for you.
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New FW for the SDG1000 series:
http://siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=5359&tid=15 (http://siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=5359&tid=15)
Version: 1.01.01.39R2
800 Kb
Change Log
1. Changed the UI to a color-blind friendly scheme
2. Changed the noise scheme from by DDS periodically to real pseudo-random noise
3. Fixed the bug in P38R2 that the language becomes Chinese when being upgraded from previous version
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Hi Tautech,
You meant SDG, right ;-)
Cheers.
---
Daniel
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Siglent have a promotion running for SDG1025 with a saving of $40 on RRP. Promo price $319.
http://siglentamerica.com/qyxwxx.aspx?id=5331&sid=216 (http://siglentamerica.com/qyxwxx.aspx?id=5331&sid=216)
Product page:
http://www.siglent.com/ENs/pdxx.aspx?id=145&T=2&tid=16 (http://www.siglent.com/ENs/pdxx.aspx?id=145&T=2&tid=16)
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I have read elsewhere that the bk 4050 series is re-branded signlent sdg1000 series.. When I look at the siglent service manual that appears to be the case.
I have the 5 mhz model and channel 1 output is biased down and not controllable in amplitude. I can see the waveforms but it appears that the output section is bad.
I have run down the problem to happening between TA15 and TA2 . Everything is working fine at TA15 but it is not at TA2. Does anyone know what the circuitry is in the output channel and what I should replace. It is $200 to send it in and get it fixed so it doesn't warrant a lot of trouble shooting time. and channel 2 is working fine.
thanks
robert
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I have read elsewhere that the bk 4050 series is re-branded signlent sdg1000 series.. When I look at the siglent service manual that appears to be the case.
I have the 5 mhz model and channel 1 output is biased down and not controllable in amplitude. I can see the waveforms but it appears that the output section is bad.
I have run down the problem to happening between TA15 and TA2 . Everything is working fine at TA15 but it is not at TA2. Does anyone know what the circuitry is in the output channel and what I should replace. It is $200 to send it in and get it fixed so it doesn't warrant a lot of trouble shooting time. and channel 2 is working fine.
thanks
robert
Welcome to the forum.
Quite possibly the bad channel has been damaged from applying a signal to a live circuit.
All the SDG 1k models are roughly the same so you can use any of the info online you can find for guidance.
A Google search found me reply #233 in this thread that you should study and a quick look at the OP has a link to some pics:
http://sigrok.org/wiki/Siglent_SDG1010 (http://sigrok.org/wiki/Siglent_SDG1010)
Write it all up here or start a repair thread in the Repair board as the repair can help others too.
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I fried my SDG1025 from pure stupidity by connecting the active output to around 60V . I was unable to determine which parts had been blown even with sme help from Agilent. I had to buy a replacement board in the end.
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Hi guys, does anyone happen to know if there's a contrast/brightness adjustment on the SDG1010?
I have it sitting on a shelf overhead and the LCD angle doesn't let me see the text that's next to the 5 soft buttons. (It's white on gray).
Alternatively, is there a way to change the font color of the "skin" of the device?
For reference, I'm talking about this:
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170703/67322b2c2fe98ab2851c830a2a8c9eff.jpg)
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Hi guys, does anyone happen to know if there's a contrast/brightness adjustment on the SDG1010?
I have it sitting on a shelf overhead and the LCD angle doesn't let me see the text that's next to the 5 soft buttons. (It's white on gray).
Alternatively, is there a way to change the font color of the "skin" of the device?
Not that I can find.
Yes the viewing angle from below is quite limited, probably only 20oand the menu text does indeed gray out. Your pic is interesting, I couldn't not see the yellow of Ch1, must be just something to do with your camera.
All I can suggest is to elevate the rear of the unit to get a more normal viewing angle or shift it somewhere better in your instrument stack.
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Hi guys, does anyone happen to know if there's a contrast/brightness adjustment on the SDG1010?
I have it sitting on a shelf overhead and the LCD angle doesn't let me see the text that's next to the 5 soft buttons. (It's white on gray).
Alternatively, is there a way to change the font color of the "skin" of the device?
Not that I can find.
Yes the viewing angle from below is quite limited, probably only 20oand the menu text does indeed gray out. Your pic is interesting, I couldn't not see the yellow of Ch1, must be just something to do with your camera.
All I can suggest is to elevate the rear of the unit to get a more normal viewing angle or shift it somewhere better in your instrument stack.
The color distorsion is just the because of the camera.
About the viewing angle... that's tough... I was hopping somebody knew of a firmware version with a different color scheme.
Yes, I could tilt it but the multimeter that's on top of it is already tilted and it would look weird. It would also be a risk for the multimeter.
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For these tried and tested AWG's, a new firmware update:
SDG1000 series
Version: V1.01.01.39R5
http://www.siglenteu.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=4035&tid=15 (http://www.siglenteu.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=4035&tid=15)
897 KB
Changelog
1. Fixed a few bugs
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For these tried and tested AWG's, a new firmware update:
SDG1000 series
Version: V1.01.01.39R5
http://www.siglenteu.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=4035&tid=15 (http://www.siglenteu.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=4035&tid=15)
897 KB
Changelog
1. Fixed a few bugs
I hate it when they can't be bothered to mention WHICH bugs were fixed, is it really that hard to do? A firmware update is always risky, is it worth the risk?
My 1025 has a bug that resets the external reference back to internal each time its powered up (but it still says it is using the external reference - even though it is not). Has this been fixed - Who knows?
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For these tried and tested AWG's, a new firmware update:
SDG1000 series
Version: V1.01.01.39R5
http://www.siglenteu.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=4035&tid=15 (http://www.siglenteu.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=4035&tid=15)
897 KB
Changelog
1. Fixed a few bugs
I hate it when they can't be bothered to mention WHICH bugs were fixed, is it really that hard to do? A firmware update is always risky, is it worth the risk?
My 1025 has a bug that resets the external reference back to internal each time its powered up (but it still says it is using the external reference - even though it is not). Has this been fixed - Who knows?
It's great to see Siglent still supporting their older products, I can't complain. :-+
However the changelog is annoying. They did step their game up previously but are now seemingly going back to when changelog's were not a thing. Perhaps this is just that Chinese face-saving culture thing? Don't admit to anything perceived as bad, pretend it didn't happen, etc.
What I was quite surprised at is the calibration adjustment scripts being made available! (may require a login) (http://www.siglent.com/ENs/gjjrj.aspx?id=209). After all the flim-flam I got from a couple of Siglent dealers in the forum last year :-DD (hey, I forgive you guys!) ;)
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For these tried and tested AWG's, a new firmware update:
SDG1000 series
Version: V1.01.01.39R5
http://www.siglenteu.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=4035&tid=15 (http://www.siglenteu.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=4035&tid=15)
897 KB
Changelog
1. Fixed a few bugs
I hate it when they can't be bothered to mention WHICH bugs were fixed, is it really that hard to do? A firmware update is always risky, is it worth the risk?
The risk is very very low, the main thing to consider is power loss so I never do them in storms.
Of the some hundreds I've done, never has one failed.
My 1025 has a bug that resets the external reference back to internal each time its powered up (but it still says it is using the external reference - even though it is not). Has this been fixed - Who knows?
Not yet but it's going to be.
See discussion here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/msg1384209/#msg1384209 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/msg1384209/#msg1384209)
Edit
Let me add this automatic reversal to Internal reference applies to all Siglent AWG's and therefore any fix applied for SDG2kX models will most likely be rolled out into all the other Siglent AWG series. 800, 1000, 5000, 1kX, 2kX and 6kX as each firmware is revised with a new version.
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Changelog
1. Fixed a few bugs <<< :palm: :scared: :--
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For these tried and tested AWG's, a new firmware update:
SDG1000 series
Version: V1.01.01.39R5
http://www.siglenteu.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=4035&tid=15 (http://www.siglenteu.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=4035&tid=15)
897 KB
Changelog
1. Fixed a few bugs
I hate it when they can't be bothered to mention WHICH bugs were fixed, is it really that hard to do? A firmware update is always risky, is it worth the risk?
The risk is very very low, the main thing to consider is power loss so I never do them in storms.
Of the some hundreds I've done, never has one failed.
My 1025 has a bug that resets the external reference back to internal each time its powered up (but it still says it is using the external reference - even though it is not). Has this been fixed - Who knows?
Not yet but it's going to be.
See discussion here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/msg1384209/#msg1384209 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/msg1384209/#msg1384209)
Edit
Let me add this automatic reversal to Internal reference applies to all Siglent AWG's and therefore any fix applied for SDG2kX models will most likely be rolled out into all the other Siglent AWG series. 800, 1000, 5000, 1kX, 2kX and 6kX as each firmware is revised with a new version.
Thanks for the response! I'm a little more wary than yourself with firmware updates though, I've bricked several MBs in the past but thankfully no test gear (yet). I don't want to start now - and the comments about failure when updating the Rigol DM3058E underlines the fact you cannot take it for granted (yes, you may laugh about that :) )
It's not the fallback to using the internal reference per se because I would expect it to do that if there were no external ref signal present. It's the fact that it does so when re-booted with the external ref active and it still erroniously reports it is using the external ref whilst actually it is using the internal reference. It can be difficult to actually diagnose it is doing this without performing some tests so I routinely need to remember to reset to internal ref, then change it back to external again in the settings.
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Thanks for the response! I'm a little more wary than yourself with firmware updates though, I've bricked several MBs in the past but thankfully no test gear (yet). I don't want to start now - .....
One struggles to imagine how you manage in this day and age.
Really, the risk is soooo low if the instructions are followed to the letter.
I've seen some members mention using a UPS so that even power loss is removed as a risk.
Do you not do any updates of modern gear ? :-//
I've only done one MB bios flash but that was many years ago.
Anything else I own I check for updates on a irregular basis.
There has been talk behind the scenes of Siglent enabling some equipment to connect directly to their server (after user input) and installing updates automatically with user confirmation to do so.
Would this ability give you more confidence to update firmware in equipment ?
It's not the fallback to using the internal reference per se because I would expect it to do that if there were no external ref signal present. It's the fact that it does so when re-booted with the external ref active and it still erroniously reports it is using the external ref whilst actually it is using the internal reference. It can be difficult to actually diagnose it is doing this without performing some tests so I routinely need to remember to reset to internal ref, then change it back to external again in the settings.
As indicated in replies from Siglent this behaviour will be changed and in all SDG AWG models that support EXT frequency reference. The proposal is OSD indication of the REF source and manual selection only to protect any EXT source from possible damage.
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True, I never had some problems with a firmware update since the old 286er / 386er PC BIOS systems, mobile phones or something like that.
BUT my question here is, WHY I should do an update? Does anybody know the fixed issues? Thanks Siglent for the update, but thumbs down for the update infos. I still didn't got an email this update is available and why. :--
Anybody knows the slogan "NEVER CHANGE A RUNNING SYSTEM" and my 1050 is working for me. So I wait for requests before I do the update. I am sure my Siglent is working a few weeks longer with the old version.
/Sry for the Edit, there was an eevBlog Server issue
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Just to be clear,
They have NOT fixed all the bugs.
right after the update , the language was switched from English back to Chinese............
Despite them claiming it was fixed in the last update.
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Just to be clear,
They have NOT fixed all the bugs.
right after the update , the language was switched from English back to Chinese............
Despite them claiming it was fixed in the last update.
SDG1000 ?
My SDG1010 updated perfectly, no language reset problems. Did it yesterday.
Check the full list of updates on the EU site to ensure you haven't missed one.
http://siglenteu.com/gjjrj.aspx?id=15&page=1 (http://siglenteu.com/gjjrj.aspx?id=15&page=1)
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Check the full list of updates on the EU site to ensure you haven't missed one.
http://siglenteu.com/gjjrj.aspx?id=15&page=1 (http://siglenteu.com/gjjrj.aspx?id=15&page=1)
This might be better:
https://www.siglenteu.com/service-and-support/firmware-software/waveform-generators/#sdg1000-series (https://www.siglenteu.com/service-and-support/firmware-software/waveform-generators/#sdg1000-series)
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Now, which one is the current version?
SDG1000 Firmware - 1.01.01.39R5 (Release Date 12.25.17 )
SDG1000 Firmware - 1.01.01.38R2 (Release Date 01.10.18 )
The one with the newer release date, or the one with the higher version number?
:-//
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Now, which one is the current version?
SDG1000 Firmware - 1.01.01.39R5 (Release Date 12.25.17 )
SDG1000 Firmware - 1.01.01.38R2 (Release Date 01.10.18 )
The one with the newer release date, or the one with the higher version number?
:-//
I've had 1.01.01.39R5 installed since the end of last year, still has issues with the external reference resetting to internal on power up.
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And the one dated 1.10.18 was like out in 2016, so surely the 18 is a typo ?
Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 2
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:phew:
We've been waiting for this....
USB stick recovery from a boot freeze.
SDG800 firmware.
Version: v1.08.01.13R5
~24 MB.
https://www.siglentamerica.com/download/5981/ (https://www.siglentamerica.com/download/5981/)
Changelog.
1. Supported system recovery from the U-disk
2. Supported Rev.C hardware with Over Voltage Protection
This is very important firmware and all SDG800 owners are strongly advised to install it at their earliest possible convenience.
Please read the install instructions carefully and in full.
Follow instructions with care.
Summary only:
To ensure being upgraded successfully, the generator may need multiple update operations. The procedures are as below: P05R1->P07-> SDG800_transition ->P08->P12R2
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Has anyone had any problems with some buttons not working with Siglent SDG 800 series scopes? :) I found that on mine the up, left and trigger buttons were not recognized during the key test though the trigger button lights up fine during an led test.
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I had this once. SDG805. Stripping down and cleaning buttons PCB contacts.
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Thank you EVS :) May I ask if the screw threads on the front panel pc are metal or just plastic (for self tapping screws)? :)
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Thank you EVS :) May I ask if the screw threads on the front panel pc are metal or just plastic (for self tapping screws)? :)
Not had an 800 apart but the SDG1000 were self threaders IIRC.
Just be careful when refitting them and LH them until they drop into their old threads.....like any that are self tappers. ;)
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>rspt1908
Of course, it's a plastic :).
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Repair Solution- Siglent SDG1050 - Erratic Output Level
A Siglent SDG1050 (PCB Version SDYB.007.009C) was in use for 7 years, until the main (Ch1) output went erratic.
On Channel 1 (right hand socket), the output voltage at 1.999V was correct. At 2.000V the output dropped to around 400mV.
An initial replacement of all relays did not correct the problem.
So another SDG1050 (PCB Version SDYB.007.009G) was purchased (These are quite good instruments).
The tracking and comparison of signals between units was difficult (no schematic), as the PCB output section on the newer unit had been changed (to rectify fault issues in the earlier units - which caused this failure).
With the faulty unit, as an opamp's output signal was followed, the signal suddenly dissappeared across a resistor. But the signal level was good on the newer unit. The resistor had gone open.
The 1.999V to 2.000V fault resulted from R154 (24R9 0603 marking 39X) going open (There were two in series for ~50R). On the newer instrument, they had been replaced by a higher wattage 2512 49R9 resisor. So Siglent knew about the problem and has fixed it.
If others have faults with their Siglent Signal Generator, in the relay area (near the BNC sockets), check as many resistors as possible. Get a resistor value marking table (on the web) and check that each resistor is close to its expected value.
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New firmware for the SDG1000 series AWG's.
1.01.01.39R7
https://www.siglentamerica.com/download/8125/ (https://www.siglentamerica.com/download/8125/)
Changelog
1. Fixed a bug that the generator may freeze when being
connected to a USB-GPIB adapter.
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Changelog
1. Fixed a bug that the generator may freeze when being
connected to a USB-GPIB adapter.
Lol, does anybody ever seen this GPIB option?
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Changelog
1. Fixed a bug that the generator may freeze when being
connected to a USB-GPIB adapter.
Lol, does anybody ever seen this GPIB option?
:-//
It's listed as an accessory for these AWG models:
https://www.siglentamerica.com/accessory/usb-gpib-adapter/ (https://www.siglentamerica.com/accessory/usb-gpib-adapter/)
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Aw, I thought it is a PCB to plug in into the device, not an external USB >> GPIB.
Thank you.
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For those who are interested in controlling the SDG1000 (I've only tested on my 1025) via USB from Linux (e.g. Ubuntu) which doesn't have official support for ni-visa, then they can use this method.
I've tested this on a Ubuntu 18.04.2
Edit: of course you could use any linux device to control the siglent, like a raspberry pi or any other Linux SBC that runs python. That way you can run automated tasks, without having to leave your workstation powered on.
Create a python virt-env
sudo apt-get install python3-venv
python3 -m venv sdg1025
source ~/pyenv/sdg1025/bin/activate
Then install python-usbtmc (https://github.com/python-ivi/python-usbtmc (https://github.com/python-ivi/python-usbtmc))
cd ~/Downloads
git clone https://github.com/python-ivi/python-usbtmc
python setup.py install
Then on your sdg1000 select the TMC USB option
Utility >> Interface >> USB Setup >> USBTMC
Now you need to create a udev rule so your user has access to the device
sudo vi /etc/udev/rules.d/51-siglent-sdg1025.rules
And add this rule
SUBSYSTEM=="usb", ATTRS{idVendor}=="f4ed", ATTRS{idProduct}=="ee3a", MODE="0666"
Before do this, run lsusb to verify the VID/PID. In my case for example is:
Bus 001 Device 066: ID f4ed:ee3a Shenzhen Siglent Co., Ltd. SDG1010 Waveform Generator (TMC mode)
Then reload and trigger udev rules, while the sdg is still connected
sudo udevadm control --reload-rules && sudo udevadm trigger
Now, to test that it works load python
python
And try this:
>>> import usbtmc
>>> usbtmc.list_resources()
This should list your device, e.g.
['USB::65432::12345::SDG10GA1234567::INSTR']
Now you can create an instance with this string:
>>> sdg = usbtmc.Instrument('USB::65432::12345::SDG10GA1234567::INSTR')
To print the device info:
>>> print(sdg.ask("*IDN?"))
*IDN SDG,SDG1025,SDG10GA1234567,1.01.01.39R5,04-00-00-30-28
Now you can use [this](https://mediacdn.eu/mage/media/wysiwyg/siglent/Downloads/Command/SDG_Programming_Guide.pdf) pdf to run any command you like.
For example to get channel configuration:
>>> sdg.ask('C1:BSWV?)
'C1:BSWV WVTP,SINE,FRQ,1000HZ,PERI,0.00100000006S,AMPHLEV,2V,LLEV,-2V,PHSE,0\n\x00-2V,PHSE,0'
To set the channel configuration to a 10MHz 3.3V square waveform
>>> sdg.write('C1:BSWV WVTP,SQUARE,FRQ,10000000,AMP,3.3V')
To turn on CH1
sdg.write('C1:OUTP ON')
Turn off channel
sdg.write('C1:OUTP OFF')
You can now write automations in python and control the generator. You can also use pyqt or tkinter to create a small GUI interface.
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I've written a small post on how to work with the usbtmc on Linux and SDG1025.
https://www.stupid-projects.com/write-python-scripts-for-your-siglent-sdg1025/ (https://www.stupid-projects.com/write-python-scripts-for-your-siglent-sdg1025/)
I've also uploaded a video using the web interface on a tablet. The slider updates the frequency while sliding and every 2 or 30ms depending the async method is used. It's really fast, but I couldn't show it on the video as my tablet touch screen is not working properly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_TcUBbF5Wc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_TcUBbF5Wc)
I've used a small SBC (nanopi-neo) to run the web app backend. You can even use an SBC which has WiFi support (nanopi-neo-air) and power it on from the SDG's USB port.
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New firmware for SDG800 models
Version 1.08.01.13R9
6.3 MB
https://siglentna.com/download/14908/
Release notes
Fixed the abnormal display issue during start-up on some units with previous releases. It is not necessary to update to this version if the unit has no such a problem.
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Grabbed from another thread:
ET12 - Siglent SDG1025 0.1ppm TCXO Hack - YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9uLUM9DZ9A (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9uLUM9DZ9A)
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Hello folks, I have a SDG805 from ebay.. It seems to work well.
One problem I am seeing, is someone seems to have installed the wavestation firmware ( ok who's unit is this, points fingers around :) )
But now I cannot update it, it just fails when applying updates via usb drive. Tries to run, and says failed. I am assuming some mismatch.
I am wanting to update because the version is very old (R6, assuming the versions align with siglent.. :-// )
Anyone have any tips ? Should I just try to obtain lecroy firmware see if it will update?
As far as I can tell the warranty sticker is still intact also, so probably still factory inside.
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For now don't flash any other Lecroy FW.
Tell us all the info that you see in the system info menu so that we know which is, precisely, the FW that you have.
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Hello folks, I have a SDG805 from ebay.. It seems to work well.
One problem I am seeing, is someone seems to have installed the wavestation firmware ( ok who's unit is this, points fingers around :) )
But now I cannot update it, it just fails when applying updates via usb drive. Tries to run, and says failed. I am assuming some mismatch.
I am wanting to update because the version is very old (R6, assuming the versions align with siglent.. :-// )
Anyone have any tips ? Should I just try to obtain lecroy firmware see if it will update?
As far as I can tell the warranty sticker is still intact also, so probably still factory inside.
Suggestions to try, at your own risk !
Hunt through all the SDG800 firmware updates for a Config file and run it before installing any Siglent firmware.
This will allow the UI change to Siglent from LeCroy.
Carefully study the release notes, there is an defined order firmware must be installed to get to the latest version.
Also, the release notes might have mention of a firmware version needing the Config file and that will give clues of which version to use. Make notes of the steps you will use before you even start.
Don't give up as too hard, you need to do this to get to recent firmware so to not have boot freeze problems that late version firmware has fixed.
I have some advanced resources ;) if you get into trouble.
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Thanks for replies,
Info Attached, I have read the firmware docs and have tried all of them, even the transition.ads and its says "Update Failed" instantly or "Choice Valid update file"
(also it(the docs) has no mention of upgrading from .06 ) only .05 and .07 with regards to the order. shrug
EDIT: I read it wrong I think , I will try again , maybe I did not run 07 first as I am supposed to to be sure. 07,transition, + etc, is doesn't say if a restart between each is necessary though. But I will give it another go.
The file names were 8_3 short on the usb soooo.. lol
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Thanks for replies,
Info Attached, I have read the firmware docs and have tried all of them, even the transition.ads and its says "Update Failed" instantly or "Choice Valid update file"
(also it(the docs) has no mention of upgrading from .06 ) only .05 and .07 with regards to the order. shrug
EDIT: I will try again , maybe I did not run 07 first as I am supposed to to be sure. 07,transition, + etc, is doesn't say if a restart between each is necessary though. But I will give it another go.
Have a look here for many more SDG800 FW versions than listed on the US site:
https://int.siglent.com/download/firmwares/?ProId=21
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Why do you say it has a Lecroy FW? Because of the boot logo?
Show me these SCPI commands:
*IDN?
MD5_PR?
MD5_SRLN?
IDN-SGLT-AWG?
PRO_SRLN?
MCBD?
From the link tautech provided, install 07, reboot, transition, reboot. After transition is installed I think you can go directly to 13R9.
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Why do you say it has a Lecroy FW? Because of the boot logo?
V6 is the first FW for SDG800 AFAIK and yes the LeCroy boot image as you know will be part of that/all firmware.
tablatronix can contact me privately for another solution but it involves removing the covers to access the HW inside.
We have had HW failures (boot freeze) with these models but they are SW related and we now have a box of tools to successfully recover them. tablatronix might find the FW he needs I dunno and I think the freeze recovery tools might be the simplest remedy.
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If that was a Lecroy, what model would it be? I can't find any Lecroy model equivalent to the Siglent SDG805...
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Thanks all!
I was doing something wrong, I was missing 07 install first,
yay, running latest firmware now, SD830
instek SFG2010 is channel 2
FYI, before the update,
The boot screen says siglent, but the help info screen, help page were saying wavestation, its back to siglent now.
I did not run any commands, because I cannot get a console, I am on mac. anyone know if there are drivers for osx?
Also I am getting some voltage out of the usb port, it repeatedly crashes my hub on bootup, not sure what could be wrong to cause this. The device did show up, but this seems odd and glitches my usb hub. Attached a trace.
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Thanks all!
I was doing something wrong, I was missing 07 install first,
yay, running latest firmware now, SD830
:-//
Do you mean it's now a SDG830 ?
And with FW 13R9 ?
I did not run any commands, because I cannot get a console, I am on mac. anyone know if there are drivers for osx?
Yes because you are USB restricted to using the EasyWave SW utility and IIRC there's a SCPI command console in there. No LAN in these models to use Telnet or Putty consoles.
Check the install notes on EasyWave as you should be able to run it in a Win VM yet don't overlook it needs NIVISA Runtime for the USB connectivity drivers.
Also I am getting some voltage out of the usb port, it repeatedly crashes my hub on bootup, not sure what could be wrong to cause this. The device did show up, but this seems odd and glitches my usb hub.
With the latest FW allowing for USB boot freeze recovery the unit polls the USB port on boot looking for the recovery files and if/when not found procedes with normal boot.
Can you turn OFF the power on one port of the hub ?
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Yes It says sdg830, others have reported similar
I expected a serial uart, but I see now it uses a usb stack, boo
I would expect there to be a backfeed diode here or vusb to not be connected at all. Very strange. ( I thought usb boot protection meant the front usb port for usb drives. )
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I've got a BK PRECISION 4053 which is rebadged Siglent SDG1000, any way to change the firmware to Siglent's and to "upgrade" to 50Mhz.
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I've got a BK PRECISION 4053 which is rebadged Siglent SDG1000
If you are sure of it, try flashing the Siglent FW and report.
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I've got a BK PRECISION 4053 which is rebadged Siglent SDG1000
If you are sure of it, try flashing the Siglent FW and report.
Least I strongly believe Hardware is Siglent SDG1010
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Did you tried opening it? Good chance the PCB can be identified for sure as the Siglent if compared to one, doubt they would change something inside on this rebadged models.
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I just did open it and it's definitely Siglent. I've actually flashed it with the newest firmware.... for SDG1000 SDG1000 Firmware-1.01.01.39R7 (Release Date 01.29.19 )
It went through without any problems... tho I'm still limited to 10MHz... any way to get a higher frequency?
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Thanks to TV84 I've got it flashed to 50MHz.
Now it boots and works just like a proper Siglent 1052 signal generator should :)
Thank you very much.
Pictures are coming, didn't have time yesterday to take any but I will edit this post.
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New firmware for SDG800 models
Version： V1.08.01.15
6.3 MB
https://int.siglent.com/upload_file/zip/firmware/Signal_generator/SDG800_V1.08.01.15_EN.zip
Release notes
1. Supported to automatically enable the output after power-on: Utility | Output Setup | Power on State
2. Compatible with Rev.E hardware
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Thanks to TV84 I've got it flashed to 50MHz.
Now it boots and works just like a proper Siglent 1052 signal generator should :)
And how did you get it?
I have 1005
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hi everyone
i have AATECH AWG-1010 which is another rebranded siglent sgd1010 i think. so I tried to upgrade with newer siglent firmware but it doesn't accept the ADS files from siglent. is anyone know the
update&upgrade procedure of this another clone devices ?
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hi everyone
i have AATECH AWG-1010 which is another rebranded siglent sgd1010 i think. so I tried to upgrade with newer siglent firmware but it doesn't accept the ADS files from siglent. is anyone know the
update&upgrade procedure of this another clone devices ?
Certainly looks like the older SDG1000 series and other AATECK AWG models are certainly Siglent rebrands.
I advise you dig deep into the firmware revision PDF in every FW download package as there might be a need for a sequential upgrade path before you can install the latest/last version now these models are discontinued.
https://int.siglent.com/download/firmwares/?ProId=19
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looks like one of AATECH AWG-1010 is dead after siglent fw upgrade... the device boots normally with siglent logo, the menu screens, and all controls are also fine but there is no signal output at ch1/ch2. i get only some dc offset in sinus mode when i enable channels and weird square wave with square mode. also when i try to self-calibrate device it is stuck in this menu for 4-5 minutes. i tried to downgrade to several versions of R36 and R37 but nothing changed.
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Here you have the oldest FW I have.
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unfortunately, that also didn't work with SDG1000-V100R001B01D01P27 firmware. the update cannot start.
@tv84 do you have any recommendation?
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looks like one of AATECH AWG-1010 is dead after siglent fw upgrade...
Which FW version did you flash? Show the full name.
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first i flashed SDG1000-V100R001B01D01P39R2 i think. later i tried several different 36-37 versions. the last i flashed SDG1000-V100R001B01D01P36. the result is very similar.
there no output on sinus (only dc offset) some weird output when square wave selected.
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there no output on sinus (only dc offset) some weird output when square wave selected.
You have a working unit ? Just not working correctly ?
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@tautech yes exactly, i tested all functions before firmware flashing. it was ok.
@tv84 i flashed "SDG1000-V100R001B01D01P31.ADS" the result is same :
- in sinus mode, no output ony 5V dc offset
- in square mode, i have some weird signal. the frequency is ok but amplitude is constant and when i adjust under 1 volt, the wave goes negative. i also don't have any other arb waveforms on both channels.
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I could try to make a change in the v27 for you to try flash but I think is a long shot... don't have any assurance it would flash, let alone work correctly...
Maybe only tautech could do some magic although I think Siglent won't support any of this...
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I could try to make a change in the v27 for you to try flash but I think is a long shot... don't have any assurance it would flash, let alone work correctly...
Maybe only tautech could do some magic although I think Siglent won't support any of this...
Already looked, we/I don't have recovery packages for these older SDG1000 models.
Never heard of a update wrecking a product but as these are a age now and maybe don't have the upgrade protection of later models I guess it is possible.
That's why I earlier stated:
I advise you dig deep into the firmware revision PDF in every FW download package as there might be a need for a sequential upgrade path...........
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My opinion goes in this direction:
I think besides the BF programming, there might be a CPLD on the device that requires also to be programmed and maybe these Siglent packages don't contain that part. So, now, there is an inconsistency between BF contents and other CPLDs content...
This is based on old (scope) analysis and I'm not sure it applies here but... only Siglent knows.
The best solution would be to flash the device's original brand FW (although it could be one of those very old Siglent versions). If anyone has one that he could dump... although not an easy task.
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My opinion goes in this direction:
I think besides the BF programming, there might be a CPLD on the device that requires also to be programmed and maybe these Siglent packages don't contain that part. So, now, there is an inconsistency between BF contents and other CPLDs content...
This is based on old (scope) analysis and I'm not sure it applies here but... only Siglent knows.
The best solution would be to flash the device's original brand FW (although it could be one of those very old Siglent versions). If anyone has one that he could dump... although not an easy task.
Yes, quite. I do have OEM FW right back to 2015, maybe earlier only had a quick look.
czorgormez, do you know the version installed before you had all this bad luck ?
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@tautech
unfortunately, i can't remember the exact firmware before flashing. but hw version is: 02-00-00-22-24
i also have another unit but I think it is a newer version, the front panel is slightly different. and this unit doesn't accept any siglent FW (fortunately) the other device hardware is : 04-00-00-23-28
i couldn't flash the V27 firmware to the device. it starts first but after a few second it stops with update failed message.
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Guys, a call for help:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/please-help-to-indentify-value-of-resistor-in-siglent-sdg805-generator/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/please-help-to-indentify-value-of-resistor-in-siglent-sdg805-generator/)
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Hello.
Answered.
All the best.
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Hello.
Quick DIY mod to improve accuracy with a Chinese TCXO module.
The +7.5VDC power has been taken directly from the power connector on the PCB.
All the best.
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Thanks to TV84 I've got it flashed to 50MHz.
Now it boots and works just like a proper Siglent 1052 signal generator should :)
Thank you very much.
Pictures are coming, didn't have time yesterday to take any but I will edit this post.
Do you have checked the temperatures of the components after the hack ? The SDG1052 has a fan inside , the SDG1010 doesn`t . I am sure they do not build in a fun just for having fun in doing that ...