Keysight policy

[msknight]

Thought I'd just note this in for people's records.

I never win anything, so I thought I'd e-mail Keysight for product recommendations to upgrade my Rigol.

What I received back was a request which... given my original e-mail to them, they obviously knew I am a hobyist/learner and in theory I could have fulfilled their request with both them and me, knowing that my fingers were crossed behind my back when I gave the confirmation, with a very heavy wink... but at this time of my life with what I'm facing (I won't bore you with that) I didn't feel like officially lying. I might feel otherwise at a different point in my life, but hey.

Thank you for your enquiry.

Keysight offers test and measurement products, software, and services for “professional and industrial use” by our B2B customers. We structure our product regulatory certification, insurance, warranty, and customer service policies, processes, and strategies to reflect this B2B environment. Accordingly, our products are not tested, intended or suitable for consumer, hobbyist, or household use.

Please can you acknowledge the statement below so we can proceed with your enquiry.

I acknowledge that Keysight products and services are not tested, intended, or suitable for consumer, hobbyist or household use. I confirm that I am not ordering the products or services for consumer, hobbyist, or household use, and that the products purchased will be used for business, professional, industrial, organisational, or institutional purposes.

Thanks & regards,

Keysight Technologies UK Limited

[Black Phoenix]

Already been discussed to oblivion  - https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/keysight-officially-lost-the-plot-dont-buy-if-youre-a-hobbyist/

[nigelwright7557]

Maybe worried a rookie might do something wrong and blow it up costing them a fortune ?

[msknight]

Already been discussed to oblivion  - https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/keysight-officially-lost-the-plot-dont-buy-if-youre-a-hobbyist/

Crikey. You ain't kidding when you say, "Oblivion."

[tv84]

Already been discussed to oblivion  - https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/keysight-officially-lost-the-plot-dont-buy-if-youre-a-hobbyist/

It's much worse... Before that thread, the topic started here:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/a-broken-34470a-and-keysights-terrible-customer-service/

[msknight]

It's much worse... Before that thread, the topic started here:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/a-broken-34470a-and-keysights-terrible-customer-service/

Oh good grief.

At the end of the day I can understand Keysight's position and the business choices they've made. It's to my detriment, but hey ho, that's life. Nothing to get bent out of shape over. Wish I could get their kit, but sometimes the suits say no.

[adam4521]

They are really doubling down and building out the 'suitable' and 'unsuitable' in their rubric, aren't they!

[0culus]

I would unironically tell them that yes, I do have a business and you can send the correspondence to 367 Addison Avenue, Palo Alto CA.

Bill and Dave must be spinning. 

[mendip_discovery]

Yet the USA side seems ok to do promotions and competitions aimed at the amateur market.

Just curious if there was some daft EU rule that has forced thier hands.

I am currently doing cal work onsite becuase Keysight don't want to do it. The customer is spinning as they have started to realise the certs were not fit for purpose (test rig with temp, 3 phase, current etc and all they did was two pressure gauges). They couldn't even get the label on the machine straight ~20°.

[JohanH]

Yet the USA side seems ok to do promotions and competitions aimed at the amateur market.

It's this that pisses people off. They would be a perfectly normal company if they didn't do this stuff. It's like trolling and goes too far. When they stopped supporting amateurs and hobbyists, they should have stopped these things, too. But yes, this has been discussed over and over in the other threads.

[AVGresponding]

Seems largely a warranty issue; statutory consumer warranties are a lot longer than typical business ones in the EU and UK and have fewer exclusions, and also they want to upsell the Keysight Care or w/e it's called, which is basically a subscription to Customer Services.

[BillyO]

Well, maybe they are trying to give a leg up to Siglent, Rigol and GW Instek.  Us unwashed idiots can't be trusted with their overly sophisticated loveliness, so we'll go buy the other stuff.  Then when we're asked at work what we'd recommend for a round of scope upgrades we'll say something like "Oh, how about these Siglent SDS7000 series".

Keysight my arse.  More like Shortsight.

Yeah, Bill and Dave are rolling and have been since that petty dictator Fiorina took the reigns in 1999 and destroyed the once greatest tech company in less than 2 years.

[switchabl]

Yeah, Bill and Dave are rolling and have been since that petty dictator Fiorina took the reigns in 1999 and destroyed the once greatest tech company in less than 2 years.

I am not exactly a fan but I am not sure how much of a long-term impact she had on the T&M side. If I recall correctly, by the time she became CEO, the decision to spin off Agilent had already been made and the IPO happened a few months later.

[0culus]

Yeah, Bill and Dave are rolling and have been since that petty dictator Fiorina took the reigns in 1999 and destroyed the once greatest tech company in less than 2 years.

I am not exactly a fan but I am not sure how much of a long-term impact she had on the T&M side. If I recall correctly, by the time she became CEO, the decision to spin off Agilent had already been made and the IPO happened a few months later.

The rest of HP got turned into a steaming pile though. See their current rent seeking behavior with their printers.

[0culus]

Seems largely a warranty issue; statutory consumer warranties are a lot longer than typical business ones in the EU and UK and have fewer exclusions, and also they want to upsell the Keysight Care or w/e it's called, which is basically a subscription to Customer Services.

Even so, it's in their best interest to get some good publicity in the industry by not crapping all over hobbyists. The number of warranties they'd have to honor probably isn't that large anyway, and a nonzero number of those hobbyists also influence purchase of T&M equipment at work, and this kind of behavior leaves a bad taste. I know next time I need to buy something at work, I'm definitely gonna check out other brands and shop around rather than just buying Keysight.

My comment above about sending the paperwork to 367 Addison Ave. was only partly in jest. Today's Keysight wouldn't give those two garage knuckledraggers the time of day...you know only the two guys that founded the damn thing in the first place.

[AVGresponding]

Seems largely a warranty issue; statutory consumer warranties are a lot longer than typical business ones in the EU and UK and have fewer exclusions, and also they want to upsell the Keysight Care or w/e it's called, which is basically a subscription to Customer Services.

Even so, it's in their best interest to get some good publicity in the industry by not crapping all over hobbyists. The number of warranties they'd have to honor probably isn't that large anyway, and a nonzero number of those hobbyists also influence purchase of T&M equipment at work, and this kind of behavior leaves a bad taste. I know next time I need to buy something at work, I'm definitely gonna check out other brands and shop around rather than just buying Keysight.

My comment above about sending the paperwork to 367 Addison Ave. was only partly in jest. Today's Keysight wouldn't give those two garage knuckledraggers the time of day...you know only the two guys that founded the damn thing in the first place.

I agree with you completely, but the bean counters have long since gained control, and they seem to see no value in the likes of us.

[mendip_discovery]

With a hobbiest they buy 1 or 2 high value products. A business might buy more gear exp when you say you need a scope to go with that freq gen then they sign up to the Keysight service plan that just sneaks up over the years.

[tooki]

With a hobbiest they buy 1 or 2 high value products. A business might buy more gear exp when you say you need a scope to go with that freq gen then they sign up to the Keysight service plan that just sneaks up over the years.

Everyone understands this.

But as others have said: this leaves a bad taste in our mouths and makes us less likely to recommend or choose Keysight products at work.

That and the whole “advertise to consumers but don’t let them buy it” bullshit.

[robert.rozee]

With a hobbiest they buy 1 or 2 high value products. A business might buy more gear exp when you say you need a scope to go with that freq gen then they sign up to the Keysight service plan that just sneaks up over the years.

the size of the respective markets is irrelevant. it is all about REPUTATION. keysight have managed to significantly damage their own reputation, something would take a great many years to repair. not that i expect them to attempt to make any such repairs. more likely keysight will move on to different market segments - perhaps healthcare products, or battery chargers.


cheers,
rob   :-)

[TimFox]

Yeah, Bill and Dave are rolling and have been since that petty dictator Fiorina took the reigns in 1999 and destroyed the once greatest tech company in less than 2 years.

I am not exactly a fan but I am not sure how much of a long-term impact she had on the T&M side. If I recall correctly, by the time she became CEO, the decision to spin off Agilent had already been made and the IPO happened a few months later.

During Fiorina's proxy fight to solidify her control of -hp-, she ran a very disturbing ad in the business sections showing a battered -hp- 200 generator (which looked like it had been used in a football game), and posed the question of if the company should remain at that level.
Historically, the 200 series (as it evolved) is one of the best-sellingf T&M equipment of all time.

[AVGresponding]

With a hobbiest they buy 1 or 2 high value products. A business might buy more gear exp when you say you need a scope to go with that freq gen then they sign up to the Keysight service plan that just sneaks up over the years.

With a hobbiest they buy 1 or 2 high value products. A business might buy more gear exp when you say you need a scope to go with that freq gen then they sign up to the Keysight service plan that just sneaks up over the years.

the size of the respective markets is irrelevant. it is all about REPUTATION. keysight have managed to significantly damage their own reputation, something would take a great many years to repair. not that i expect them to attempt to make any such repairs. more likely keysight will move on to different market segments - perhaps healthcare products, or battery chargers.


cheers,
rob   :-)

In point of fact, I doubt that the hobbyist market is trivial; yes the individual purchases may be tiny, but how many hobbyists do you think there are for every blue-chip company that places multi-million dollar orders?

[coromonadalix]

are we gonna start a new keysigh thread   there is already one   going for a long time and many pages  of  this and that


is this new thread relevant,  or a new rant once again ? a never ending variation on the same subject ?

[msknight]

are we gonna start a new keysigh thread   there is already one   going for a long time and many pages  of  this and that

I hope not! I didn't realise the depth of history on this when I posted, "for information," basically. The discussion seems to have hit a round robin anyway and Keysight isn't going to change, so I do hope this thread dies :-)

[EEVblog]

Locked. Please use the other thread.