Author Topic: The Siglent SDG1000 and SDG800 thread  (Read 108843 times)

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Online tautech

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Re: The Siglent SDG1000 and SDG800 thread
« Reply #225 on: November 12, 2015, 05:21:02 am »
FYI

Siglent Application Note for SDG AWG's.
Using 2 AWG's for Multi-Phase Waveforms:

Generating Multi-Phase Waveforms -- SDG Generators
http://www.siglentamerica.com/qyxwxx.aspx?id=1435&sid=228
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Online tautech

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Offline yodhe

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Re: The Siglent SDG1000 and SDG800 thread
« Reply #227 on: January 01, 2016, 12:38:34 am »
I recently bought a Siglent SDG805 off Ebay as a Parts/ Not Working item. The description said it was a warranty return from Amazon with the seller being a warranty trans-shipper. As it was cheap and shown powered up I took a punt.

Upon receiving the 805 I booted it up to find that all output waveforms seemed fine but voltages were low.  However it was inconsistent, it was ~3dB down as set voltage increased until the output voltage remain fixed, regardless of further increases in the set voltage. Then a relay would click and the output voltage would jump by about 50% and the process would start over again. This was the case over the entire output range,  :-//  A quick look inside showed no obvious faults and power rails I assumed were good at +/- 5 and 15 volts.

Manufacture date is indicated as 3/14.

Hardware version:      02-00-00-05-00

Firmware version:      1.08.01.08

Before I got too carried away poking around inside  I decided to upgrade the firmware to the latest 1.08.01.11 version. The upgrade instructions say firmware versions 1.08.01.06, 1.08.01.07 and 1.08.01.08 need to install a transition firmware first but no amount of fiddling, USB stick reformatting or attempted firmware roll-backs would convince my machine to install this transition firmware. Eventually I decided to install the 1.08.01.11 firmware as is and hope for the best.

This firmware installation was as straightforward as I had originally hoped for. After a reboot I dove into the Utilities menu to run the re-enabled Self Calibration function. After this was finished the output voltages are now in spec without any pauses or jumps. I have no idea how it could have gotten so far out of cal but hey, at least its fully functional now.

What's more, my machine now seems to believe that it is a SDG830!  ;D


About 2 mins at infinite persistence.


Anyone with an SDG 805 or 810 who wants to confirm that Siglent have taken a leaf out of Rigol's book?
« Last Edit: January 01, 2016, 12:52:14 am by yodhe »
 

Online tautech

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Re: The Siglent SDG1000 and SDG800 thread
« Reply #228 on: January 01, 2016, 01:34:51 am »
I recently bought a Siglent SDG805 off Ebay as a Parts/ Not Working item............

What's more, my machine now seems to believe that it is a SDG830!



Anyone with an SDG 805 or 810 who wants to confirm that Siglent have taken a leaf out of Rigol's book?
Well looking at the system info pic, at some stage somebody has installed LeCroy Wavestation FW.

As you are not the original owner, who knows what  :-/O have been applied before you got it.
You also may not be aware that Siglent have been incorporating BW upgrade functionality in much of their equipment but as yet have not offered this as a purchasable option, but I do wonder if this is intentionally providing a path for future cracks of Siglent equipment.  :-//

All that aside, you did well......enjoy.  ;)
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Offline yodhe

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Re: The Siglent SDG1000 and SDG800 thread
« Reply #229 on: January 01, 2016, 01:52:06 am »
Heh, I never noticed that Wavestation tag. That may explain it being out of cal as I dont think they ever released a 5 MHz AWG.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2016, 02:03:53 am by yodhe »
 

Offline Deni

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Re: The Siglent SDG1000 and SDG800 thread
« Reply #230 on: January 15, 2016, 06:30:39 pm »
I've bought Axiomet's AX-DG2010AF which is actually rebranded Siglent SDG1010. It has one annoying issue - when both channels are active, if I modify e.g. CH1 frequency, there's a glitch on CH2 too. I am wondering if original SDG1010 has the same issue. I would apprecite if somebody can verify that... Thanks in advance!
« Last Edit: January 15, 2016, 06:32:14 pm by Deni »
 

Online tautech

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Re: The Siglent SDG1000 and SDG800 thread
« Reply #231 on: January 15, 2016, 06:36:12 pm »
Welcome to the forum.

Please tell us more about this ch 2 glitch and I can see if I can reproduce it.
Screenshots would be great if you can.
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Offline Deni

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Re: The Siglent SDG1000 and SDG800 thread
« Reply #232 on: January 15, 2016, 06:38:12 pm »
It' simple - hook up two channels scope to it, set Ch1 to say, 1HZ Squarewave and CH2 to 1kHz sinewave. Now change CH1 frequency to 1.5Hz and observe CH2...
Currently I'm at home so I can't post any images...
 

Online tautech

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Re: The Siglent SDG1000 and SDG800 thread
« Reply #233 on: January 17, 2016, 01:40:03 am »
It' simple - hook up two channels scope to it, set Ch1 to say, 1HZ Squarewave and CH2 to 1kHz sinewave. Now change CH1 frequency to 1.5Hz and observe CH2...
Currently I'm at home so I can't post any images...
I don't see any unexpected behaviour and certainly no glitches on Ch2.  :-//

Setup as you describe, and triggering on the 1 KHz sinewave.
SDG1010, 50 Ohm output and 50 Ohm internal termination in scope.

What version FW do you have installed?
What scope are you using?
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Offline Deni

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Re: The Siglent SDG1000 and SDG800 thread
« Reply #234 on: January 22, 2016, 08:58:09 am »
To verify my findings, set generator CH1 to say 1kHz, attach it to the scope and set scope display to persistent mode and select time base so you see several periods of the signal.
Then select channel2 on the generator and rapidly change frequency of channel2...
 

Offline rf-loop

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Re: The Siglent SDG1000 and SDG800 thread
« Reply #235 on: January 22, 2016, 06:23:59 pm »
To verify my findings, set generator CH1 to say 1kHz, attach it to the scope and set scope display to persistent mode and select time base so you see several periods of the signal.
Then select channel2 on the generator and rapidly change frequency of channel2...

Is it possible you give some documents about your findings. Example screen dump (if possible) from oscilloscope and explanation what is set up exactly including signal connections.

I do not have SDG1000 series at this time for testing. But, I find something "strange" with SDG5000.
So lets investigate this case bit more. It looks like all strange unexpected things can exist until enough evidence that it do not exist.

Btw, drop out trigger function and/or mask test is nice tool in oscilloscope.
If practice and theory is not equal it tells that used application of theory  is wrong or the theory itself is wrong.
It is much easier to think an apple fall to the ground than to think that the earth and the apple will begin to move toward each other and collide.
 

Offline paul

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Re: The Siglent SDG1000 and SDG800 thread
« Reply #236 on: January 22, 2016, 08:26:25 pm »
Deni,

My SDG1020 has always behaved this way. A much easier way to see this feature is to set CH1 to 1.000 000 Hz and CH2 to 2.000 000 Hz connect up to a oscilloscope of you choice with a nice slow sweep and then with the cursor on the last digit of the frequency setting for channel 2 change it to 2.000 001 Hz.
You will see both channels restart at the zero point of the waveform, same thing happens if you have different waveforms on either channel.

Is this a limitation of the design of this function generator, could be a software issue or a hardware limitation, or do all DDS based function generators work the same way ?
 
Screen shots of the feature below. NB. QuickPrint2 is a zoomed in view.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2016, 08:53:58 pm by paul »
 

Offline rf-loop

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Re: The Siglent SDG1000 and SDG800 thread
« Reply #237 on: January 23, 2016, 07:20:09 pm »
This is partiaally OT because this is SDG5000.
I do not have at this time SDG1000 or SDG800 for tests.
But still I think this is perhaps useful for think this whole issue.
After several tests with SDG5000 my opinion is that there is severe error is system but I still do not believe mistake in HW.

About this one image.
Signal from SDG5082 CH1 to oscilloscope CH1 and CH2 to CH2.
Oscilloscope here is SDS1202X
Trigger is set for drop out in CH1 signal.
CH1 is 50kHz and during this test I do not touch it. (freq is not important, same happend also with other freqs)
CH2 is bit over 1kHz and then step changed to over 2kHz. (freq do not matter here, around same with other frequencies)
During this test I change SDG CH2 frequency.
Change can see in upper window around 900us before trigger point.
Change is nice without glitches. Also at this point nothing happend in CH1 signal, rock solid.

BUT then, after nearly 1ms start hassle. Both channels signal breaks and independent of signal phase, just cut off.  After short time signals start from around 0 degree but more or less phase shifted related to original wave and depending frequency just right signal come out (from both channel but here in this image CH2 freq is so low that can see only tiny part of cycle but CH1 it can see. 
Then soon after short time both channels breaks agen independent of signal phase, just cut off. After then both channels start and continue normally.
This is case with sinewaves. Situation is bit more complex with some other waveforms.
It is good to note these phase shift during breaks. It may give information for reduce area for finding this  problem living address or least what part of city it live.

I will report this bug to Siglent after I get more tests ready and better documentations. (but this is SDG5000)
Add:(Reported to Siglent with some documents at 25.Jan)

I have tested this using current and also previous FW:
Current, 5.01.01.15R1 Published?2015-11-12
Previous, 5.01.01.12  Published?2015-03-10
Result looks like same.

(I remember one old case where I find SDG800 missing pulses (very different case) and Siglent find reason very quicly and also it was nearly immediate repaired with new FW (if I remember right problem was in FPGA some timing), so I hope this is also repairable easy after know where this problem is. 
Why it breaks CH1 when I adjust CH2. This is not acceptable at all.
This is so severe error that this must get fatal or severe class status for inspect and solve as soon as possible.
Problem is now also that factory is soon shut down phase for holiday and totally closed from 30.Jan - 20.Feb. How long it then take before all are "wake up" and processes run normally.


Other question is that is these kind of equipments, independent of manufacturer,  enough reliable for directly drive some critical things where may happen severe damage if channels timing related to each others is "die or live" question and specially if signals need adjust on the fly. My individual opinion is that No. These kind of equipments are not suitable for this kind of solution without some safety circuits between siggen and object. Not only because there may happend some anomalies in signal  during adjustment in fly but also one single mistake with buttons and -  when the smoke is allayed, then calculate damage.  Least it need run enough of tests and exercises with some test setup where object is cheap enough for destroy.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2016, 11:35:40 am by rf-loop »
If practice and theory is not equal it tells that used application of theory  is wrong or the theory itself is wrong.
It is much easier to think an apple fall to the ground than to think that the earth and the apple will begin to move toward each other and collide.
 

Online tautech

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Re: The Siglent SDG1000 and SDG800 thread
« Reply #238 on: January 25, 2016, 10:28:29 am »
New versions of Easywave software are available:
http://www.siglentamerica.com/gjjrj.aspx?id=14
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Offline billfernandez

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Re: The Siglent SDG1000 and SDG800 thread
« Reply #239 on: January 25, 2016, 12:05:09 pm »
New versions of Easywave software are available:
http://www.siglentamerica.com/gjjrj.aspx?id=14

FYI, I have found that the P34 version will not run correctly on my Windows 7 PC.  It throws a series of "An unsupported operation was attempted" errors.  I had to uninstall it and re-install the P32 version.  I posted about this in the Siglent tech support topic, and a few others seem to be having trouble too.
 

Offline rf-loop

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Re: The Siglent SDG1000 and SDG800 thread
« Reply #240 on: January 25, 2016, 02:20:36 pm »
Windows 7 but what version exactly?
Installed Ni-Visa version?  5.1.2 runtime?
P34 Installed "For all users"?

As previously told, also I test it and during installation and use not any kind of problem.
(I have tested it now more). 1. unisntall and clean all old P32, installed P34 = works ok.  and now later:  unindstalled and removed all P34, installed P32. Works ok. Uninstalled and removed all P32, installed P34, works ok. Uninstalled P34 all.
Uninstalled Ni-Visa.  Installed P34 = fails of course due to missing one dll. Removed all P34. Installed Ni-Visa 5.1.2 runtime. (after then reboot) Installed P34. works ok as previously.
So there must be some undefined conflict with some software in Computer (Firewall, or some other running software do conflict?), some win7 version is not fully compatible?

Ni-Visa what I use is exatly this:
http://www.ni.com/download/ni-visa-run-time-engine-5.1.2/2918/en/

« Last Edit: January 25, 2016, 02:40:31 pm by rf-loop »
If practice and theory is not equal it tells that used application of theory  is wrong or the theory itself is wrong.
It is much easier to think an apple fall to the ground than to think that the earth and the apple will begin to move toward each other and collide.
 

Offline billfernandez

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Re: The Siglent SDG1000 and SDG800 thread
« Reply #241 on: January 25, 2016, 10:15:27 pm »
Windows 7 but what version exactly?
Installed Ni-Visa version?  5.1.2 runtime?
P34 Installed "For all users"?


Windows 7 Pro with service pack 1, 64 bit.
P34 installed for all users.
Not sure how to determine version on NI-Visa (is it needed by EasyWave?), but I have "VISA Shared Components 64-Bit" version 5.5 installed.  Is that it?  If not, where do I look for this?
 

Offline Muxr

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Re: The Siglent SDG1000 and SDG800 thread
« Reply #242 on: January 25, 2016, 10:57:17 pm »
I was able to reproduce this issue on the SDG1025 as well.



Top is channel 1, bottom is channel 2. Just changing the frequency of CH2 causes glitches on CH1.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2016, 11:02:10 pm by Muxr »
 

Offline CustomEngineerer

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Re: The Siglent SDG1000 and SDG800 thread
« Reply #243 on: January 26, 2016, 12:47:20 am »
Windows 7 but what version exactly?
Installed Ni-Visa version?  5.1.2 runtime?
P34 Installed "For all users"?


Windows 7 Pro with service pack 1, 64 bit.
P34 installed for all users.
Not sure how to determine version on NI-Visa (is it needed by EasyWave?), but I have "VISA Shared Components 64-Bit" version 5.5 installed.  Is that it?  If not, where do I look for this?

I had the same issue with P34 on Windows XP Pro, ended up reinstalling P32.
 

Offline rf-loop

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Re: The Siglent SDG1000 and SDG800 thread
« Reply #244 on: January 26, 2016, 08:48:52 am »
Windows 7 but what version exactly?
Installed Ni-Visa version?  5.1.2 runtime?
P34 Installed "For all users"?


Windows 7 Pro with service pack 1, 64 bit.
P34 installed for all users.
Not sure how to determine version on NI-Visa (is it needed by EasyWave?), but I have "VISA Shared Components 64-Bit" version 5.5 installed.  Is that it?  If not, where do I look for this?

It is poorly described By Siglent.
I do not know what year they get manuals and instructions so that they all are updated and easy available in one place ecatly.
If someone jump just now to train he must be least Sherlock Holmes to solve all things.  First need solve where can find information and then also need find this information. After find information need also solve what information is valid and what is obsolete and if obsolete information still have some valid information included.  I do not know what versions work with what version etc.
But I know, that combination whhat I use, works.

In history it was also important that Ni-Visa was FIRST installed before Computer even hear anything about Siglent (not Easythisandthat and not connected to USB nevere before etc)
It was, and I follow it still until someone tell exactly I'm wrong or I find my procedure do not anymore work for me):
First install Ni-Visa Runtime (link above but also this,I do not know what other version perhaps works or not but I use this version and it have worked rock solid with Win XP32 to Win 7 64.  Normally all people with Windows have also .NET frameworks all in update and if I remember right least 3.5 need be installed)
After Ni-Visa installation (and so that it never have seen any Siglent before or cleaned, what means sometimes more than just unisntall button)
After Ni-Visa need reboot Computer!
After then when all is ok. Then install (with admin rights) Siglent (and I recommend isntall for  "all users")
This is first point when it is safe to first connect also USB if want.


I have not any experience with Windows B or  10.
If practice and theory is not equal it tells that used application of theory  is wrong or the theory itself is wrong.
It is much easier to think an apple fall to the ground than to think that the earth and the apple will begin to move toward each other and collide.
 

Offline rf-loop

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Re: The Siglent SDG1000 and SDG800 thread
« Reply #245 on: January 26, 2016, 09:50:33 am »
Bit OT.
This kind of case can use also for many kind of exercises for learn different ways to use oscilloscope, specially when we want find and analyze some glitches or anomalies in signals. Of course this is just one individual example but also it may give some idea how to use oscilloscope bit more advanced way.



Here is one (quite good also) method for find if there is "something". Using persistence. Of course we have wfm/s update rates and intensity grading etc but no need stress user eyes for watch if there just blink something.
So, this method is one first method for finding "something" what we do not know.  But as we can see from this image can not analyze nearly anything, only we can see there is something wrong. If situation is rare, just let osciolloscope do work and go to coffee.




Oscilloscopes today, specially oscilloscopes what have true digital side trigger system,  may have couple of powerful trigger features what we can use for more deep analyze what is really going on.  As in upper image we have found there is something, but example here we can see much more. Of course this method need that we know something about what we are trying analyze. (persistence method is one way to first find some kind of vision what is there perhaps.
Because we want know what happends in other channel (CH1) what  need be rock solid when we adjust other channel. We know what is signal in CH1. We need find if there change something. We can of course do mask test. Take CH1 signal and do mask. Then set it so that if signal fails inside mask scope stop and we see this situation. (yes I did it and there I see signal  really drops out totally after do freq change in generator CH2 and in this case CH2 was not at all connected to scope.)
In this position I want see all things what happend there when CH2 change and result is CH1 drop out.
Here come Trigger.
Now I know how long time drop out continue.
I set trigger for CH1 and so that scope do acquisition only if trigger detected. (So, Auto trigger is not suitable, set for Normal what means scope do whole acquistion only if it trig.)
Then I want it trig only if it see signal is under trigger level over time what I set, because now I know that there is break in signal.
Also connected CH2 to scope CH2

After these adjustemnts are ok.

Now I change generator freq and every single time I do it, scope is trigged (and only when I change CH2 freq) and I can see new trace on the screen.

After then I can adjust scope so that I can see both, exacly when CH2 freq change and this signal break bit later. Now using zoom it can also analyze more deeply.

Rigol also have powerful trigger functions so this is nice case to exercise study how to use scope independent of brand.
In oscilloscope course this lesson "how to use oscilloscope bit more powerful way" it cost least 1000 and here it cost only one cheap SDG1000.

Basic trigger functions are very important to be familiar. Oscilloscope can be used very effectively when user is familiar with many kind of triggering functions and aplications.

« Last Edit: January 26, 2016, 10:02:28 am by rf-loop »
If practice and theory is not equal it tells that used application of theory  is wrong or the theory itself is wrong.
It is much easier to think an apple fall to the ground than to think that the earth and the apple will begin to move toward each other and collide.
 

Offline paul

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Re: The Siglent SDG1000 and SDG800 thread
« Reply #246 on: February 05, 2016, 11:21:55 pm »
I have had a look at the glitch at higher frequencies on my SDG1020 and it is same as the SDG5082 that rf-loop posted, complete with the two gaps on both channels.
I can see how this could be a bit of a problem, It looks like both channels are reset / restarted in phase with each other (or at their set phase offset ?) this makes little sense if the frequencies are not harmonically related however I can understand why it is done this way.

I would like to see how a DDS function generator from another manufacture behaves, probably need to ask in another thread :)

I agree that it is a bit of a challenge to trigger on the drop-out / glitch, I tried the obvious way first with a mask trigger but found the most reliable and fastest way was to set the trigger for Runt.

(Ignore the ringing on the screen grab, I did not use any 50 ohm termination as I was only interested in the gaps / glitches.)
« Last Edit: February 06, 2016, 11:01:23 pm by paul »
 

Online tautech

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Re: The Siglent SDG1000 and SDG800 thread
« Reply #247 on: March 14, 2016, 09:28:50 am »
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Offline papousek

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Re: The Siglent SDG1000 and SDG800 thread
« Reply #248 on: March 25, 2016, 02:38:17 am »
@ tautech
Thank you!
i just upgrade my SDG805, does Siglent only release new FW in their website? any emails?
 

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Re: The Siglent SDG1000 and SDG800 thread
« Reply #249 on: March 25, 2016, 03:06:08 am »
@ tautech
Thank you!
i just upgrade my SDG805, does Siglent only release new FW in their website? any emails?
Sometimes they email me so that can inform this community, but this time another member spotted the SDS3055 FW update and linked it in that thread.
But no, it's something they don't normally do as you don't have to request Siglent FW updates, they're always freely available on each of the 3 websites: China, Europe and USA.

It's important any bugs or features that are not working properly are reported either in one of the Siglent product threads here to be relayed to Siglent or directly to Tech support via the sales email: sales@siglent.com
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