Author Topic: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread  (Read 314028 times)

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Offline DIPLover

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Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
« Reply #1125 on: July 26, 2019, 07:38:42 pm »
I like the stats on the counter page in the SDS2042X but for when I want to monitor the count and don't care about stats, is there a way to have the current count displayed in a less TINY font ?

I don't know, maybe squarely in the middle of the display in as large a font as will fit the 8 digits?

Why so tiny?
 

Online tautech

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Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
« Reply #1126 on: July 27, 2019, 08:08:21 am »
I like the stats on the counter page in the SDS2042X but for when I want to monitor the count and don't care about stats, is there a way to have the current count displayed in a less TINY font ?

I don't know, maybe squarely in the middle of the display in as large a font as will fit the 8 digits?

Why so tiny?
Maybe we'll ask for this as a feature request if there's enough support for it.


On that topic of feature requests ..........
I got asked by a customer if a HiZ-50 Ohm toggle could be implemented by using a long press for the channel enable button.
I didn't know if SDG2000X models could and tech support informed me all X series AWG's already support this feature. There's a few mentions of it in the manual in wording that's not plainly apparent and could also be highlighted.....but who like reading manuals !

Continue pressing the corresponding output key for two seconds to switch between High Impedance and 50Ω.

Translation: A Long press of any Output button toggles between HiZ and 50 Ohm settings.

Hope that speeds up SDG****X usage for some of you.  :)
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Offline Svuppe

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Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
« Reply #1127 on: July 27, 2019, 09:10:40 am »
I got asked by a customer if a HiZ-50 Ohm toggle could be implemented by using a long press for the channel enable button.
I didn't know if SDG2000X models could and tech support informed me all X series AWG's already support this feature.

I believe that feature was introduced in one of the firmware updates, so if a customer can't get it to work, he may have an older version.
 

Online tautech

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Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
« Reply #1128 on: July 27, 2019, 09:50:02 am »
I got asked by a customer if a HiZ-50 Ohm toggle could be implemented by using a long press for the channel enable button.
I didn't know if SDG2000X models could and tech support informed me all X series AWG's already support this feature.

I believe that feature was introduced in one of the firmware updates, so if a customer can't get it to work, he may have an older version.
Nope. I sold it to him a week before.
Anyways, you knew about it.......I didn’t.  :palm:
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Online TurboTom

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Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
« Reply #1129 on: July 27, 2019, 10:56:17 am »
I like the stats on the counter page in the SDS2042X but for when I want to monitor the count and don't care about stats, is there a way to have the current count displayed in a less TINY font ?

I don't know, maybe squarely in the middle of the display in as large a font as will fit the 8 digits?

Why so tiny?

Even though not on a Siglent instrument, but maybe interesting anyway: The Counter function is the one feature that the Rigol DG4000 series excels all Siglent gear by far. Maybe a hint to the Siglent engineers to get some inspiration there ?  ;)

See the screenshots of an FM modulated 1MHz signal, different modulation waveforms, following sequence:
- simple counter in the background
- simple counter
- counter with numerical statistics
- counter with graphical statistics.

Cheers,
Thomas
 

Offline ebastler

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Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
« Reply #1130 on: July 27, 2019, 11:50:21 am »
The Counter function is the one feature that the Rigol DG4000 series excels all Siglent gear by far. [...]
See the screenshots of an FM modulated 1MHz signal, different modulation waveforms [...]

Nice screen layout and choice of fonts indeed.

But I find the comma separators used within the decimal digits (to the right of the decimal point!) extremely irritating. I don't think I have noticed that anywhere before. Is that an "allowed" notation, say in the scientifc literature? Are other instrument manufacturers using it?
 

Offline 2N3055

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Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
« Reply #1131 on: July 27, 2019, 12:06:18 pm »
The Counter function is the one feature that the Rigol DG4000 series excels all Siglent gear by far. [...]
See the screenshots of an FM modulated 1MHz signal, different modulation waveforms [...]

Nice screen layout and choice of fonts indeed.

But I find the comma separators used within the decimal digits (to the right of the decimal point!) extremely irritating. I don't think I have noticed that anywhere before. Is that an "allowed" notation, say in the scientifc literature? Are other instrument manufacturers using it?

By default it is
Decimal Point: Dot
Thousand Separator: Comma

It is user configurable on DM3068 and DG1000Z.
 

Offline ebastler

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Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
« Reply #1132 on: July 27, 2019, 12:15:32 pm »
[By default it is
Decimal Point: Dot
Thousand Separator: Comma

Thanks, but it is not the "dot vs. comma" thing I'm concerned about. While Germany indeed uses the opposite convention, I have had plenty of opportunity to get used to the anglo-saxon style.

It's the use of "thousands" seprarators to the right of the decimal point which gets me. Use spaces every three digits if you have to, but extra commas I find totally distracting. Is that an official notation??
 
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Offline 2N3055

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Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
« Reply #1133 on: July 27, 2019, 02:50:29 pm »
[By default it is
Decimal Point: Dot
Thousand Separator: Comma

Thanks, but it is not the "dot vs. comma" thing I'm concerned about. While Germany indeed uses the opposite convention, I have had plenty of opportunity to get used to the anglo-saxon style.

It's the use of "thousands" seprarators to the right of the decimal point which gets me. Use spaces every three digits if you have to, but extra commas I find totally distracting. Is that an official notation??

You misunderstood. BOTH are configurable.
We also use coma as decimal separator and nothing or space for digit grouping.
Digit grouping is called "Thousand Separator" in Rigol parlance. It can be set to coma, space or none
Regards
 

Offline ebastler

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Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
« Reply #1134 on: July 27, 2019, 03:04:07 pm »
You misunderstood. BOTH are configurable.
We also use coma as decimal separator and nothing or space for digit grouping.
Digit grouping is called "Thousand Separator" in Rigol parlance. It can be set to coma, space or none
Regards

Ah, thanks. If "space" is also an option for the thousand separator, I can live with that.  ;)

I still believe that, even if you select the point or comma as the thousand separator, correct use would be to show it to the left of the decimal point only, not for the fractional digits. But that may be nitpicking...
 

Offline 2N3055

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Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
« Reply #1135 on: July 27, 2019, 03:20:29 pm »
You misunderstood. BOTH are configurable.
We also use coma as decimal separator and nothing or space for digit grouping.
Digit grouping is called "Thousand Separator" in Rigol parlance. It can be set to coma, space or none
Regards

Ah, thanks. If "space" is also an option for the thousand separator, I can live with that.  ;)

I still believe that, even if you select the point or comma as the thousand separator, correct use would be to show it to the left of the decimal point only, not for the fractional digits. But that may be nitpicking...

No, you're right, but I just use space and all is well.
regards,
 

Offline 2N3055

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Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
« Reply #1136 on: July 27, 2019, 03:35:17 pm »
I just checked with SDG6000X, it has same settings, for comma delimiter and digit grouping separator.

While we are talking about counter improvement in SDG series, SDG6000X has capability to show deviation from reference frequency. But you have to type it in every time, it would be nice to have a button to copy reference frequency from current mean frequency, as a shortcut.  So you start measuring, copy reference from current mean freq, and let it simmer a little and after a while you get nice stats.
 
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Offline ci11

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Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
« Reply #1137 on: July 29, 2019, 05:33:38 am »
To the Guru's:

A simple question about amplitude adjustments on both the SDG2000X and SDG1000X models: can either or both of these vary the amplitude with 1µV resolution using the encoder when outputting a sine wave? If not, what is the lowest unit of adjustment possible on both moel ranges? With the SDG2000X's 16-bit DAC, it may be possible if Siglent chose to implement it. Much less likely on the SDG1000X with its 14-bit DAC but should ask just in case Siglent has tricks up its sleeve.

Thanks.
 

Online tautech

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Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
« Reply #1138 on: July 29, 2019, 06:06:35 am »
To the Guru's:

A simple question about amplitude adjustments on both the SDG2000X and SDG1000X models: can either or both of these vary the amplitude with 1µV resolution using the encoder when outputting a sine wave? If not, what is the lowest unit of adjustment possible on both moel ranges? With the SDG2000X's 16-bit DAC, it may be possible if Siglent chose to implement it. Much less likely on the SDG1000X with its 14-bit DAC but should ask just in case Siglent has tricks up its sleeve.

Thanks.
SDG1032X 1mV.
SDG2042X sorry out of stock but I think it's the same.

In the programming manual under some settings there's mention of 1uV however if the specified output accuracy is ±(1%+1 mVpp) I don't see how that could be achieved.
I'll hook a SDG1032X to the PC a bit later (dinner time) and see what the min is from within the EasyWave SW.
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Online tautech

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Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
« Reply #1139 on: July 29, 2019, 08:29:14 am »
To the Guru's:

A simple question about amplitude adjustments on both the SDG2000X and SDG1000X models: can either or both of these vary the amplitude with 1µV resolution using the encoder when outputting a sine wave? If not, what is the lowest unit of adjustment possible on both moel ranges? With the SDG2000X's 16-bit DAC, it may be possible if Siglent chose to implement it. Much less likely on the SDG1000X with its 14-bit DAC but should ask just in case Siglent has tricks up its sleeve.

Thanks.
SDG1032X 1mV.
SDG2042X sorry out of stock but I think it's the same.

In the programming manual under some settings there's mention of 1uV however if the specified output accuracy is ±(1%+1 mVpp) I don't see how that could be achieved.
I'll hook a SDG1032X to the PC a bit later (dinner time) and see what the min is from within the EasyWave SW.
Within the EasyWave software the graphing shows 1uV resolution.  :o
How to measure that signal with absolute accurately with an 8 bit DSO coming from a 14 bit AWG is entirely another matter.
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Offline ci11

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Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
« Reply #1140 on: July 29, 2019, 11:17:20 am »
Thank you for the clarifications.

The amplitude resolution is to be used for maintaining specific voltage levels in instrumentation which resolves down to 0.1mV, and there is no room for a PC or a soundcard FG might have been an alternative. If anyone has a SDG2000X on hand would not mind checking the amplitude setting resolution at 1V and higher for sine - from the datasheet, it looks to be 4 digits only which means 1mV at 1V or higher. It would be delightful if it is at 0.1mV or better.

Thanks in advance.


To the Guru's:

A simple question about amplitude adjustments on both the SDG2000X and SDG1000X models: can either or both of these vary the amplitude with 1µV resolution using the encoder when outputting a sine wave? If not, what is the lowest unit of adjustment possible on both moel ranges? With the SDG2000X's 16-bit DAC, it may be possible if Siglent chose to implement it. Much less likely on the SDG1000X with its 14-bit DAC but should ask just in case Siglent has tricks up its sleeve.

Thanks.
SDG1032X 1mV.
SDG2042X sorry out of stock but I think it's the same.

In the programming manual under some settings there's mention of 1uV however if the specified output accuracy is ±(1%+1 mVpp) I don't see how that could be achieved.
I'll hook a SDG1032X to the PC a bit later (dinner time) and see what the min is from within the EasyWave SW.
Within the EasyWave software the graphing shows 1uV resolution.  :o
How to measure that signal with absolute accurately with an 8 bit DSO coming from a 14 bit AWG is entirely another matter.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2019, 11:36:49 am by ci11 »
 

Offline Svuppe

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Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
« Reply #1141 on: July 29, 2019, 02:47:56 pm »
If anyone has a SDG2000X on hand would not mind checking the amplitude setting resolution at 1V and higher for sine - from the datasheet, it looks to be 4 digits only which means 1mV at 1V or higher. It would be delightful if it is at 0.1mV or better.
I'm afraid I am about to disappoint you. I just tested a little on my 2042X. 1V and above is just 1mV steps.
But it gets worse: I went just below 1V to get the 0.1mV steps, and the last digit doesn't do much good at all.

At a setting of 998.4 mV PP, I read (on a Fluke 187) an actual output of 352.59 mV RMS. With calibration age and so on, this is reasonable.
I then stepped up 0.1 mV to 998.5 mV PP, and the Fluke read 352.99 mV RMS. Now as I increased further, the Fluke didn't move at all. All the way from 998.5 to 999.6 mV PP (not a typo, the difference was 1.1 mV PP) and the output sat still at 352.99 mV RMS.
The next step to 999.7 mV PP made the Fluke jump to 353.39 mV RMS.

At much lower values (around 100 mV PP), the 0.1 mV digit did change the output at every step.
 

Offline ebastler

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Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
« Reply #1142 on: July 29, 2019, 03:12:57 pm »
The amplitude resolution is to be used for maintaining specific voltage levels in instrumentation which resolves down to 0.1mV, and there is no room for a PC or a soundcard FG might have been an alternative.

What input impedance does your "instrumentation" have, and what absolute amplitude do you need? Could you simply use a passive 10:1 (or higher ratio) voltage divider at the function generator's output? Or add an op-amp buffer if you can't get away with the higher impedance?
 

Offline ci11

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Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
« Reply #1143 on: July 29, 2019, 08:59:13 pm »
Gentlemen,

Thank you for your replies.

@Svuppe - I called Siglent here in the US and talked through the process with the very nice gentleman on the other end of the phone. He reported the same anomalies - no 0.1mV steps at 1V and above, and even at less than 1V, the 0.1mV steps did not do much until 0.7mV or higher. Which says to me - it's not there, find something else.

@ebastler - the instrumentation has a 4-digit voltmeter which needs to be maintained at 1.000V as much as possible. "Topping up and bleeding" a 4-digit readout requires an effective 5-digit adjustment. Since it is a voltmeter tap, a voltage divider would require downstream changes that are not easier than a cheap FG with 5-digit resolution.

In any case, a solution is right under my nose that can be used - it is a 16-bit NI PXI AWG, the PXI-5421. I have one here and it is surprisingly usable with the NI InstrumentStudio UI. A lot more money than a SDG2000X and no knobs but its amplitude control is effective to 0.01mV or 10µV. And the values in the amplitude field can even be "scrolled thorugh" with the mouse wheel in .05 increments.

So no Siglent this time but lots of good help and insights. Thank you gentlemen again.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2019, 09:26:05 pm by ci11 »
 

Offline radiolistener

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Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
« Reply #1144 on: July 30, 2019, 05:47:13 pm »
But I find the comma separators used within the decimal digits (to the right of the decimal point!) extremely irritating.

that's terrible. I hate all devices and software which uses "," or "." to split groups of decimal digits. It's just impossible to understand which separator is used to split integer and fractional part. So, you cannot understand what value is displayed exactly, even when you know that "," is used to split integer part from fractional part and "." is used to split groups of decimal digits.

I just don't understand why they using so confusing group separator?! "'" is much better, for example "1'000'000.003'125"
 

Offline 2N3055

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Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
« Reply #1145 on: July 30, 2019, 07:46:15 pm »
But I find the comma separators used within the decimal digits (to the right of the decimal point!) extremely irritating.

that's terrible. I hate all devices and software which uses "," or "." to split groups of decimal digits. It's just impossible to understand which separator is used to split integer and fractional part. So, you cannot understand what value is displayed exactly, even when you know that "," is used to split integer part from fractional part and "." is used to split groups of decimal digits.

I just don't understand why they using so confusing group separator?! "'" is much better, for example "1'000'000.003'125"

As I said, I agree the default is questionable, but you can configure it. I just set it to space.
 

Offline jjoonathan

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Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
« Reply #1146 on: August 08, 2019, 05:13:04 am »
Does anyone happen to know if there's a way to get more digits in the frequency entry? It looks like it always shows six digits to the right of the decimal point. If you're in Hz, that gives you uHz resolution. If you're in MHz, that only gives you Hz resolution. I'm looking for beat frequencies and Hz resolution is proving restrictive...
 

Offline ebastler

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Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
« Reply #1147 on: August 08, 2019, 06:11:27 am »
Does anyone happen to know if there's a way to get more digits in the frequency entry? It looks like it always shows six digits to the right of the decimal point. If you're in Hz, that gives you uHz resolution. If you're in MHz, that only gives you Hz resolution. I'm looking for beat frequencies and Hz resolution is proving restrictive...

I would have thought that the limited resolution of the frequency setting is not imposed by the user interface, but by the internal architecture of the signal generator? I imagine a prescaler followed by a PLL with a divider that has a finite number of bits, which defines the frequency resolution (frequency steps). I might be mistaken though -- maybe someone has a block diagram of the SDG2000X, or of a typical digital generator?
 

Offline jjoonathan

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Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
« Reply #1148 on: August 08, 2019, 05:57:33 pm »
I thought it was DDS?
 

Online TurboTom

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Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
« Reply #1149 on: August 08, 2019, 06:44:42 pm »
Anyway, a fractional-N-PLL can achieve very small increments, even with quite high reference frequencies.
 


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