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Products => Test Equipment => Topic started by: billfernandez on November 07, 2015, 08:43:15 am

Title: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: billfernandez on November 07, 2015, 08:43:15 am
I just got a Siglent SDG2042X Function & Arbitrary Waveform Generator.  I searched to see if there was a thread already started that focuses on this device and didn't find one, so am creating one.

Here's a thread on this forum announcing the new line of which this is a part:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg2000x-new-arbitary-generator/msg774407/#msg774407 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg2000x-new-arbitary-generator/msg774407/#msg774407)

And here's the thread for EEVBLOG #805, where Dave tears down the SDG2122X -- the 120MHz model in the SDG2xxxX line:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-805-siglent-sdg2122x-arb-generator-teardown/msg776709/#msg776709 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-805-siglent-sdg2122x-arb-generator-teardown/msg776709/#msg776709)
Title: Max Output into 50 Ohms
Post by: billfernandez on November 07, 2015, 09:02:08 am
OUTPUT LEVEL VS DC OFFSETS

By default (0V DC offset) the output always swings symmetrically above and below ground.

Into 50 Ohms it can at most output a maximum voltage of +5V and a minimum voltage of -5V.  How you use that range is up to you.

For example, if you output a 10Vpp waveform, it will take up the whole range, and the device will not allow you to add a DC offset.

On the other hand, if you have a 1Vpp waveform, it will allow you to add an offset of up to +/- 4.5V. (remember that the 1Vpp swings from +1/2V to -1/2V.)


OUTPUT LEVEL VS FREQUENCY

When outputting sinewaves into a 50 Ohm load: For frequencies of up to 20MHz the unit lets you specify (and it will deliver) up to 10Vpp.  But above 20MHz (up to 40MHz for this model) the unit will only let you specify up to 5Vpp.

Same for squarewaves except that squarewave generation tops out at 25MHz.

Pulses have the same limits as squarewaves.

Ramps (triangle and sawtooth waves) have a maximum frequency of 1MHz, and a maximum output of 10Vpp into 50 Ohms.

The DC Offset output can only go to +/-5V.

Haven't figured out the limits for arbitrary waveforms.  All the ones I've tried have allowed me to specify up to 10Vpp, but I haven't generated a waveform faster than 10MHz (max frequency depends upon # of samples, etc.).


ABOVE 50 OHM LOAD

The documentation says that into a "high impedance" load the output can swing up to 20Vpp (-/+10V), but I haven't explored the limits thereof.
Title: Testing the speed limits of arbitrary waveform generation
Post by: billfernandez on November 07, 2015, 09:37:06 am
The arbitrary waveform generator can play samples at a maximum rate of 75 megasamples/second.  But the minimum length of a sample set is 8 samples.  So the fastest rate at which you can play an 8-sample set is 9.375MHz.

In the EasyWave program I created a new wave:
   9 points
   40MHz
   20Vpp
I used 9 points so that I could create a symmetrical waveform with no discontinuities where the sample set repeats.

Then I edited the waveform to create a sawtooth waveform with 4 peaks, from 0V to +10V.

Then ran it on the unit in DDS mode at 20MHz, 10Vpp, into 50 Ohms.

What I saw on my scope was an 80MHz softened sawtooth at about 4Vpp, with, that seemed to be amplitude modulated with a 960mVpp, 20MHz sinewave.

Also, the entire waveform seemed to be offset about 400-400mV above 0V.

Then I switched the arbitrary waveform generator from "DDS" (Direct Digital Synthesise) mode to "TrueArb" mode.  The result on the scope was a 3MHz squarewave, with no offset above 0V, with amplitude of 5.2V, and a discontinuity where the sample set repeats. 

I've noticed that TrueArb seems to add a short 0V segment at each sample-set repeat point.  I've also noticed that DDS and TruArb produce distinctly different waveforms, and I'm still trying to figure out what's going on.

I've attached a few files showing screen shots.
Title: Re: Testing the speed limits of arbitrary waveform generation
Post by: alank2 on November 07, 2015, 01:41:35 pm
But the minimum length of a sample set is 8 samples.  So the fastest rate at which you can play an 8-sample set is 9.375MHz.

It will go down to 2 even though the documentation says 8.  I didn't test this with loading a CSV file, but a BIN file.

It will also autoscale a CSV file, so if the maximum value given is -1 to +1, it will scale those to the lowest value to the highest value.  The amplitude will actually be driven by the amplitude setting.

I used 9 points so that I could create a symmetrical waveform with no discontinuities where the sample set repeats.

This is necessary for the DDS mode because the final sample does not get a time slot like the TrueArb mode does.

In TrueArb mode if you have 4 samples, sample 0, 1, 2, and 3 will have the same amount of time each is "played" at the sample rate.

In DDS mode, if you have 4 samples, sample 0 is the left edge and sample 3 is the right edge of the waveform.  DDS mode interpolates between samples.  What you have then is a time slot assigned to sample 0-1, 1-2, and finally 2-3.  This is why you want sample 3 to be the same as sample 0.  Otherwise it will end at 3 and then instantly SNAP to sample 0.  There is no time slot assigned to sample 3-0.

I've noticed that TrueArb seems to add a short 0V segment at each sample-set repeat point.  I've also noticed that DDS and TruArb produce distinctly different waveforms, and I'm still trying to figure out what's going on.

They are completely different, one interpolates a waveform and the other plays samples.

By the way, you can load CSV files of your own samples without having to use or make them with EasyWave.  Just use this format:

data length,8
xpos,value
,1
,-1
,1
,-1
,1
,-1
,1
,-1

In this case 1 being the highest value will be scaled to the maximum and -1 being the lowest value will be scaled to the minimum.

What the generator does with this file is turns it into this binary file (see picture)

It is a simple 2 byte signed integer array.  FF 7F 00 80 --> 0x7FFF (highest value from the "1") followed by 0x8000 (lowest value from the -1).  0x0000 would be the center.

You can load binary files directly from a USB stick though they will not be copied to the internal drive.

I was very impressed with the arbitrary wave testing I did on the Siglent.  It excels at generating waveforms with its interpolating DDS mode, and you can use its TrueArb mode with deep memory to deliver 8M samples at the sample rate you choose.  That means you could send 8M/10=838860 8-bit UART frames (1 start, 8 data, 1 stop) using TrueArb!
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: billfernandez on November 07, 2015, 03:30:08 pm
@AlanK2 thanks for your comments.  I'll do some experiments.
Title: Sync/trigger output
Post by: billfernandez on November 07, 2015, 03:44:41 pm
The documentation says that the unit can generate a sync/trigger pulse out of a BNC jack on the back of the unit, but only for waveforms with frequencies of up to 1MHz. 

I found that the 1MHz limit was true for the built-in sine, square, pulse and ramp functions, but that you could push up to about 1.9MHz when in TruArb arbitrary waveform mode (I didn't test DDS).  As the frequency increases the space between trigger pulses gets narrower, but the pulse width remains the same at about 508nS.

Also, the sync pulse seems to be offset from the start of the waveform pattern.  For example in the picture below of a 1MHz sinewave, neither the leading nor trailing edge of the sync pulse aligns with the zero crossing or peak of the sinewave.

Below are some pictures showing the sync pulse in relationship to a 1MHz sinewave, then to a TruArb waveform played at 1MHz, 1.5MHz and 1.9MHz, which is about as fast as you can go before losing the sync pulse.
Title: Siglent SDG2042X Squarewave performance
Post by: billfernandez on November 10, 2015, 12:56:45 pm
I have been looking at the squarewave output of my new Siglent SDG2042X. I've run a BNC cable directly to a 50Ohm inline shunt that is attached directly to the DC-coupled input of my 200MHz, 2.5Gs/S, Fluke 199C ScopeMeter.

RISE AND FALL TIMES:
Rise and fall times appear to be symmetrical across the range I tested (from 1Hz to 25MHz -- the max freq of the unit). At 1Hz rise and fall times are about 9.6nS.  From 1kHz to 25MHz rise and and fall times read about 8.2nS.  The spec for the unit is 7.5nS, and my scope's rise time is rated at 1.7nS.

SHAPE:
From about 2 to 6 MHz the tops and bottoms, although straight, are a bit tilted. Below this range the tops and bottoms are horizontal. 

By about 10MHz the (apoprox) 8nS rise/fall time starts taking up a significant portion of each cycle, until at 25MHz the waveforms look more like truncated sinewaves than square waves.

At all frequencies the transitions at the tops of bottoms of each rise and fall are rounded.  There is no particular overshoot, undershoot.  There is no ringing.

NOISE:
The output of this unit is surprisingly noisy.  It ranges from about 0.5mVpp at 1kHz to about 1Vpp at 25MHz.

CONCLUSION:
Except for the noise the squarewave output is well-behaved over the tested frequency range, although the output hardly looks like a squarewave above, say 10MHz due to the constant (approx) 8nS rise and fall times.

There is a sampling of representative screen shots below.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Salas on November 10, 2015, 01:27:22 pm
Noisy...bad. Can you show non averaged 100mV pk=pk 1kHz 1MHZ 10MHZ Square so we get the idea? How do you find the general ergonomics, i.e. can it be used fast enough without frustration, and how is the side fan's noise? Thanx
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: billfernandez on November 10, 2015, 02:00:24 pm
How do you find the general ergonomics, i.e. can it be used fast enough without frustration, and how is the side fan's noise?

General ergonomics are generally good.  Many settings are fast and easy.  It's also got its share of awkward and weird user interface design choices. The knob and the buttons all have really good tactile feedback.

Fan is clearly audible, but soft and low frequency.  I find that I don't mind it at all.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Salas on November 10, 2015, 02:14:11 pm
Thank you.

P.S. Can your handheld scope limit at 20MHz by the way? Then run 1kHZ 100mVpp square comparing with full bandwidth scope setting just in case significant noise comes from the scope. Because 0.5Vpp noise seems much to a fault.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: billfernandez on November 10, 2015, 03:01:14 pm
0.5Vpp noise seems much...

Oops, that should say 0.5mVpp at 1kHz.

At present I'm doing a series of tests at the full 200MHz bandwidth of my scope because I'm bouncing around over a wide range.  Later I'll bandwidth limit at 20MHz and try again with the lower frequencies.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: cnkz on November 11, 2015, 12:54:14 am
For the tests i have done with the arbitrary generator:

- 9-points (as you tried above) seems not to be  possible. It seems the generator use 16-points instead, means jumps from 8-points to 16-points (this tests i have done with the old firmware, need to re-check this with the latest firmware)

- In truARB mode the output sampling rate is 75Ms/s, in DDS mode it is 125Ms/s

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: alank2 on November 11, 2015, 01:04:21 am
- 9-points (as you tried above) seems not to be  possible. It seems the generator use 16-points instead, means jumps from 8-points to 16-points (this tests i have done with the old firmware, need to re-check this with the latest firmware)

I'm using the latest firmware and I've successfully only loaded 2 points.  In DDS mode it interpolates between samples and in TrueArb mode is plays the samples.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: cnkz on November 11, 2015, 03:27:18 am
Did you tried other (odd) number of points also?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: alank2 on November 11, 2015, 03:44:25 am
Did you tried other (odd) number of points also?

Yes - I just tested 1 pt, 2 pts, 8 pts, and 9 pts, and tried both DDS and TrueArb modes on each.  They all did what I would have expected.
Title: Re: Siglent SDG2042X Squarewave performance
Post by: smarteebit on November 13, 2015, 11:43:40 am

NOISE:
The output of this unit is surprisingly noisy.  It ranges from about 0.5Vpp at 1kHz to about 1Vpp at 25MHz.



What is the noise level of your scope when no input @ 2V/div ?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: gby on November 14, 2015, 06:02:11 am
On my SDG2042X using an old Tektronix TDS-420A 200 MHz oscilloscope and connecting with a BNC cable direct to scope with 50 Ohm termination I don't see any noise issues.  With scope set to 0.5 V/div and the generator outputting 3.0 Vpp at 100 kHz I see basically no noise.  The square wave flat section trace is a single pixel width.  I even put the scope in envelope mode to capture any deviations over 200 sweeps and the tested square wave width is less than 60 mVp-p which matches the scope when the input is internally 50 Ohm terminated and no BNC cable connected.  Same result with the scope in peak detect mode.

I conclude that this generator output is very quiet/very low spurious noise.  I suspect the test setup and/or equipment in billfernandez's test result that was noisy.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: gby on November 14, 2015, 06:08:47 am
SDG2042X has open telnet port with no user name or password required. 

I just connected with Putty.exe to the network IP address on port 23 and got right in with no request for a user name or password.  So, I had a look around to see how the system was configured.  No surprise it is Linux based running on an ARM 7 CPU.  It was a bit of a surprise to see the log on message say "SDG800 project" which tells me that the SDG2000 FW is based on the SDG800 FW in some way.  For everyone's reference below is a log of my poking around cleaned up and organized a little.

If anyone has any questions on things to check/poke at ask away and I will try.

Code: [Select]
===============================================
|SIGLENT SDG800 project        /dev/pts/0
===============================================
SIGLENT Project http://         (none)
/ # ls
bin      etc      lib      media    proc     sbin     tmp      var
dev      home     linuxrc  mnt      root     sys      usr

*** lscpu, lshw, lsusb, do not work

/ # cat /proc/cpuinfo
Processor       : ARMv7 Processor rev 2 (v7l)
BogoMIPS        : 718.02
Features        : swp half thumb fastmult vfp edsp thumbee neon vfpv3 tls
CPU implementer : 0x41
CPU architecture: 7
CPU variant     : 0x3
CPU part        : 0xc08
CPU revision    : 2

Hardware        : am335xevm
Revision        : 0000
Serial          : 0000000000000000
/ # cat /proc/meminfo
MemTotal:         124528 kB
MemFree:           83820 kB
Buffers:               0 kB
Cached:            14096 kB
SwapCached:            0 kB
Active:            24476 kB
Inactive:           6472 kB
Active(anon):      16852 kB
Inactive(anon):        0 kB
Active(file):       7624 kB
Inactive(file):     6472 kB
Unevictable:           0 kB
Mlocked:               0 kB
SwapTotal:             0 kB
SwapFree:              0 kB
Dirty:                 4 kB
Writeback:             0 kB
AnonPages:         16880 kB
Mapped:             4540 kB
Shmem:                 0 kB
Slab:               5248 kB
SReclaimable:       2288 kB
SUnreclaim:         2960 kB
KernelStack:         488 kB
PageTables:          236 kB
NFS_Unstable:          0 kB
Bounce:                0 kB
WritebackTmp:          0 kB
CommitLimit:       62264 kB
Committed_AS:     138708 kB
VmallocTotal:     892928 kB
VmallocUsed:       10496 kB
VmallocChunk:     803904 kB
/ # cat /proc/version
Linux version 3.2.0+ (ding@ding-desktop) (gcc version 4.5.3 20110311 (prerelease) (GCC) ) #19 Wed Sep 9 16:32:51 ULAT 2015

/ # df
Filesystem           1K-blocks      Used Available Use% Mounted on
ubi0:rootfs              36008     15412     20596  43% /
mdev                     62264         0     62264   0% /dev
ubi1_0                  174664       120    174544   0% /usr/bin/siglent/usr
/usr/bin/siglent/usr/usr # df -h
Filesystem                Size      Used Available Use% Mounted on
ubi0:rootfs              35.2M     15.0M     20.1M  43% /
mdev                     60.8M         0     60.8M   0% /dev
ubi1_0                  170.6M    132.0K    170.4M   0% /usr/bin/siglent/usr
/ # free
              total         used         free       shared      buffers
  Mem:       124528        40744        83784            0            0
 Swap:            0            0            0
Total:       124528        40744        83784

/ # ls /usr/bin/siglent/usr
config       log          usr          version.txt

/ # ls /usr/bin/siglent/usr/usr
4096-10x-Triangle.bin  STATE01GBY.xml

/ # cat /usr/bin/siglent/usr/version.txt
Date:2014-12-13
Author:Bookwore.Peng

Version:1.0
  Ceating datafs
/ #


/ # ls /usr/bin/siglent
config     drivers    numen.app  upgrade    usr

/ # ls /usr/bin/siglent/upgrade
ReadMe.txt  datafs.img
/ # cat /usr/bin/siglent/upgrade/ReadMe.txt
Author:Boowkore.peng 2015.06.08
When "data fs " crashed, "datafs.img" file is used to format the new "data fs"/u           
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: TheSteve on November 14, 2015, 06:49:30 am
Time to start looking for the license file or a file with limits in it so you can hack/enable more features, bandwidth etc.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: alank2 on November 14, 2015, 06:51:50 am
There is no reason to even bother hacking it.  The only difference/limitation between models is the top sine wave frequency only, and you can easily use an arbitrary wave with 10 sine waves in it to get by that limitation.

BTW, I love my SDG2082X - I truly did not know what I was missing not having a signal gen.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: TheSteve on November 14, 2015, 06:53:49 am
There is no reason to even bother hacking it.  The only difference/limitation between models is the top sine wave frequency only, and you can easily use an arbitrary wave with 10 sine waves in it to get by that limitation.

Where is your sense of adventure? :)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: alank2 on November 14, 2015, 06:56:22 am
I'll say it again, I think the SDG2042X is going to be the next DS1052 in signal gens.  Everything is in place for it to do so much more.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: smgvbest on November 14, 2015, 10:04:08 am
Nice read in this thread.   I just ordered a SDG2122X and should be here for my birthday (it was my birthday present to myself)  Ordered from TEquipment.
Have to say they are great.   They recently had it on sale and honored the EEVBLOG discount so got it for just over 700  :clap:  :phew:
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: alank2 on November 14, 2015, 10:52:45 am
Good for you smgvbest - I really love my SDG2082X.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on November 14, 2015, 12:29:51 pm
Nice read in this thread.   I just ordered a SDG2122X and should be here for my birthday (it was my birthday present to myself)  Ordered from TEquipment.
Have to say they are great.   They recently had it on sale and honored the EEVBLOG discount so got it for just over 700  :clap:  :phew:
Congrats, I only heard good stuff too from my internal sources.  ;)

Good for you smgvbest - I really love my SDG2082X.
Thanks for your feedback too.  :-+
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: analogNewbie on November 14, 2015, 07:45:42 pm
Well, I got mine yesterday. It costs me about USD500 in China.  And this is what I've done to it this afternoon...


Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on November 14, 2015, 07:53:25 pm
Well, I got mine yesterday. It costs me about USD500 in China.  And this is what I've done to it this afternoon...
:o   8)
Care to share your secret  :-/O for others too?

Hmm, seems like you've had this plan for a while. well done, the FIRST Siglent I've heard of hacked.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-805-siglent-sdg2122x-arb-generator-teardown/msg776709/#msg776709 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-805-siglent-sdg2122x-arb-generator-teardown/msg776709/#msg776709)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: TheSteve on November 14, 2015, 08:08:36 pm
Well, I got mine yesterday. It costs me about USD500 in China.  And this is what I've done to it this afternoon...

Top work! Can't help but think Siglent will try to stop this though, I don't think they are as entertained by software mods as Rigol is. Might want to keep the mod quiet for the time being until there are more of them out there.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on November 14, 2015, 08:14:44 pm
Well, I got mine yesterday. It costs me about USD500 in China.  And this is what I've done to it this afternoon...

Top work! Can't help but think Siglent will try to stop this though, I don't think they are as entertained by software mods as Rigol is. Might want to keep the mod quiet for the time being until there are more of them out there.
I have no idea how they might view this, I personally have no problem with it, if they've not closed and locked the door  ;) then who's at fault?
You just might not want to upload new FW onto it though.
Let's take note of the HW version and build date and see if they shut the door with new builds.

@analogNewbie
The last 4 digits of the SN are the units SN, what are the preceding digits, they identify the build date?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: analogNewbie on November 14, 2015, 08:17:47 pm
This signal generator is implemented like a dev board |O .... You can download and upload anything you want.  So you can just modify 1 byte in the app of the equipment and get 120M unlocked. Now I have totally lost the will to research the algoritm :palm:
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on November 14, 2015, 08:20:43 pm
This signal generator is implemented like a dev board |O .... You can download and upload anything you want.  So you can just modify 1 byte in the app of the equipment and get 120M unlocked. Now I have totally lost the will to research the algoritm :palm:
:-DD
But you no longer need to......easy crack.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: analogNewbie on November 14, 2015, 08:27:07 pm
Well, I got mine yesterday. It costs me about USD500 in China.  And this is what I've done to it this afternoon...

Top work! Can't help but think Siglent will try to stop this though, I don't think they are as entertained by software mods as Rigol is. Might want to keep the mod quiet for the time being until there are more of them out there.
I have no idea how they might view this, I personally have no problem with it, if they've not closed and locked the door  ;) then who's at fault?
You just might not want to upload new FW onto it though.
Let's take note of the HW version and build date and see if they shut the door with new builds.

@analogNewbie
The last 4 digits of the SN are the units SN, what are the preceding digits, they identify the build date?

I have no idea about the SN number. After I hacked the app ,the 40M license is still valid. I think the license contains the infomation about freq and SN. A valid license will update the freq range. I just bypassed this result.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: analogNewbie on November 16, 2015, 03:43:20 pm
Well. I am still working on the algorithm and I have made some progress.

The DC  level accuracy is poor btw...
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on November 16, 2015, 05:10:00 pm
Well. I am still working on the algorithm and I have made some progress.

The DC  level accuracy is poor btw...
This very much depends on the AWG output setup matching the termination used. 50 Ohm or Hi-Z

How have you come to this conclusion?
How much is the error?
Pics?
Waveforms?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: analogNewbie on November 16, 2015, 10:48:37 pm
It's not too bad, but I think they can do better.

The INL of this 16bit DAC is +- 3.7LSB. If it outputs the DC offset with a dedicated 18bit DAC, it will be better. :-DD
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: smarteebit on November 17, 2015, 04:51:40 pm
It's not too bad, but I think they can do better.

The INL of this 16bit DAC is +- 3.7LSB. If it outputs the DC offset with a dedicated 18bit DAC, it will be better. :-DD

DC accuracy is a system spec. It's not enough to keep the eyes on the INL or DNL spec of the DAC. Every analog device on the signal chain could contribute uncertainty/error to the DC accuracy, such as Vos and nonlinearity of the OPAmps.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: cnkz on November 17, 2015, 08:29:38 pm
This signal generator is implemented like a dev board |O .... You can download and upload anything you want.  So you can just modify 1 byte in the app of the equipment and get 120M unlocked. Now I have totally lost the will to research the algoritm :palm:

Of cause i am very interested in more details.... :clap:
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: jackenhack on November 17, 2015, 11:40:17 pm
This signal generator is implemented like a dev board |O .... You can download and upload anything you want.  So you can just modify 1 byte in the app of the equipment and get 120M unlocked. Now I have totally lost the will to research the algoritm :palm:

One more vote for more info!  :)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: analogNewbie on November 18, 2015, 03:20:27 am
I've found another way to unlock....

Most equipments lost all the options when no valid license is found, this one is implemented the other way :palm:. If the xml file contains the license is missing, it creates a new one and turns to be a SDG2122x.

Since I am new to this forum, I am not sure if it is good to publish the details.
Not sure how Siglent would do to it. Did they do this on purpose? Maybe Dave can interview the Siglent CEO later.

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: smgvbest on November 18, 2015, 11:04:08 am
Looking at the readings and the spec sheet for DC of +/-1%+2mV it looks like all those readings are in spec and that's what's important right?
I am assuming the comment is they to say  on the DC characteristics that they could improve the results by using a dedicated DAC for the DC offset correct?

I have to say I'm very happy with it so far.   very much in spec.   hooked up to a external reference it's very accurate.
internal reference has a std-dev of 32hz @ 15Mhz and on the external reference it was 39uhz @ 15Mhz and 1.056Hz @ 111,999,652 Mhz  (just a random frequency near the top of range on external reference)   I'm very happy with that and the DC is all within spec.


It's not too bad, but I think they can do better.

The INL of this 16bit DAC is +- 3.7LSB. If it outputs the DC offset with a dedicated 18bit DAC, it will be better. :-DD

DC accuracy is a system spec. It's not enough to keep the eyes on the INL or DNL spec of the DAC. Every analog device on the signal chain could contribute uncertainty/error to the DC accuracy, such as Vos and nonlinearity of the OPAmps.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: analogNewbie on November 18, 2015, 12:00:37 pm
It's not too bad, but I think they can do better.

The INL of this 16bit DAC is +- 3.7LSB. If it outputs the DC offset with a dedicated 18bit DAC, it will be better. :-DD

DC accuracy is a system spec. It's not enough to keep the eyes on the INL or DNL spec of the DAC. Every analog device on the signal chain could contribute uncertainty/error to the DC accuracy, such as Vos and nonlinearity of the OPAmps.

Are you from the siglent? I suggest that you guys embed drivers of some well-known usb wifi chip.  :)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: smarteebit on November 18, 2015, 12:29:33 pm
It's not too bad, but I think they can do better.

The INL of this 16bit DAC is +- 3.7LSB. If it outputs the DC offset with a dedicated 18bit DAC, it will be better. :-DD

DC accuracy is a system spec. It's not enough to keep the eyes on the INL or DNL spec of the DAC. Every analog device on the signal chain could contribute uncertainty/error to the DC accuracy, such as Vos and nonlinearity of the OPAmps.

Are you from the siglent? I suggest that you guys embed drivers of some well-known usb wifi chip.  :)

As I know, Siglent has a public account on this forum. You should feedback this to it.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread & BW Hack
Post by: tautech on November 18, 2015, 03:07:38 pm
It's not too bad, but I think they can do better.

The INL of this 16bit DAC is +- 3.7LSB. If it outputs the DC offset with a dedicated 18bit DAC, it will be better. :-DD

DC accuracy is a system spec. It's not enough to keep the eyes on the INL or DNL spec of the DAC. Every analog device on the signal chain could contribute uncertainty/error to the DC accuracy, such as Vos and nonlinearity of the OPAmps.

Are you from the siglent? I suggest that you guys embed drivers of some well-known usb wifi chip.  :)
FYI
Some in Siglent have seen this thread and now know of your fine efforts.  :-DD

Whether Siglent will choose to shut this door is unknown by me at this stage.
All I can suggest is if there is a FW upgrade released very soon......well you know what that might fix.  :scared:
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: gby on November 24, 2015, 04:20:46 am
External Input Details:

I have been testing the analog input used for external modulation input and have figured out its characteristics.

From the Specification Sheet:
Input Impedance:          10 k Ohm min
Frequency:                    0 to 50 kHz
100% Modulation:          11/12/13 min/nom/max

Based On Tests:
A/D range:                    -6 V to +6V nominal
Bits:                              9 (lsb = 12V/512 = 23.4 mV)
Sampling Frequency:      300/512 MHz = 585.9375 kHz
Low Pass Filter:              >10 MHz/none
Input to Output Delay:    1 sample (1.707 uSec)
DC offset:                      -27 mV or 1 lsb on the particular test instrument

Note:  Output offset adjustment is after modulation.  Setting wave amplitude to 0 and offset to 1 V with modulation on gives a dc 1V output and not 1V modulated.

The test I ran used a second generator to drive the SDG2042X external input and set the SDG2042X to DSB AM with the carrier set to 1 mHz 10 Vpp input 50 Ohm load.  Using this setup I could directly look at the external modulation input to CH1 output path with a constant gain factor while the carrier was high and/or low.

When I input sine waves below 250 kHz there was no aliasing.  Input frequency of 585938 Hz aliased to almost zero Hz.  Given the 300 MHz DDS sub-system clock that probably means the SDG2042X is using that clock divided by 512 for the A/D.  I also measured the quantization step time length and that period coincided.

I then input an external square wave to look at the rise time.  Basically it jumped up the full step amplitude in 1 and a small fraction sample times hence the conclusion there is no anti-alias low pass filter before the A/D.  I also put in 2.92 MHz sine and the aliased output of 9.687 kHz was only half amplitude and I expect an issue with the A/D sampling being not fast enough to see 2.92 MHz rather than an actual low pass filter.

I used the scope in sweep averaging mode with a trigger from the external modulation input.  The output showed a full A/D sample frequency of delay followed by a linear slope from the many sweep averages over another sample period.  See attached scope plot.  So, the net phase delay from input to output is 1.5 A/D samples periods or 2.56 uSec.

Lastly, I wondered about the A/D being 9 bits.  I am familiar with 8, 10, 12, 14, and 16 bits converters but not 9.  So, I wondered if the Siglent SDG2042X might being using an 8 bit unipolar A/D and adding input analog processing to rectify the input signal to get the 9th bit.  Looking carefully at small amplitude (500 mVpp) signals around zero there was clearly a huge flat spot in the output around 0 implying that the input analog rectifier being used to convert the 8 bit unipolar A/D into 8 bit plus sign converter is not the best.  In fact, for quality waveforms you really need the external modulation input to be above about 1.5 Vpp.  If the slew rate through 0 is fast enough from either higher frequencies or through larger amplitude it seems to work much better.  For example, 10 kHz input small amplitude sine looked better than 2 kHz input sine same amplitude.

Given the poor response through 0 on this converter I took at picture to show how bad it can be.  500 mV p-p input sinewave (scope not showing 10x probe atten on sine input) with very low distortion yielding (5V 0-p)/(6 Vdc)*(500 mV) = 417 mV p-p ideally. 
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: alank2 on December 02, 2015, 02:36:30 pm
So, can you send commands over the LAN port directly?  I tried to connect with telnet on open ports, but none worked.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: cnkz on December 02, 2015, 08:45:59 pm
I used telnet with default ports (did not specify anything) and it worked
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: alank2 on December 02, 2015, 11:47:27 pm
I used telnet with default ports (did not specify anything) and it worked

To get console access to the OS, right?

How about getting access to controlling the generator so you can issue commands like *IDN?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: pascal_sweden on December 03, 2015, 12:12:06 am
I remember from another thread about upgrading the Hantek signal generator from 5 MHz to 100 MHz, that increasing the bandwidth as such, could actually require a new calibration/adjustment of the device.

Link to the Hantek HDG2000B series:
http://www.hantek.com/en/ProductDetail_149.html (http://www.hantek.com/en/ProductDetail_149.html)

Link to the thread where they talk about the upgrade from 5 MHz to 100 MHz, and indicate the need for a new calibration/adjustment after the BW upgrade:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hantek-hdg2002b-awg-5mhz-or-100mhz-let's-see!/msg727235/#msg727235 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hantek-hdg2002b-awg-5mhz-or-100mhz-let's-see!/msg727235/#msg727235)

This makes me conclude that the upgrade from 40 MHz to 120 MHz on the Siglent SDG2042X might also require a full calibration/adjustment? Is this something which can be confirmed/denied by making actual measurements after the upgrade?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: cnkz on December 03, 2015, 01:44:45 am
How would the update via Update-Code work if you need to re-calibrate?

From what i have measured (amplitude only so far) it works nice. The amplitude is correct.

The higher harmonics are getting quite large, especially for output voltages higher than 1Vpp. That has already been showed by Dave in his review video of the SDG2122X that the performance at high frequencies was not that great... It seems the non-linearities are coming from the output amplifier, by going to 1Vpp you can hear a relay switching and at the same time the third harmonic comes up...
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: analogNewbie on December 04, 2015, 01:07:52 am
The easiest way by now is to backup and remove the file /usr/bin/siglent/config/NSP_system_info.xml

This file contains the serial number and bandwidth license info. If the license is missing, it turns to a SDG2122x :wtf:

It will generate a new SDG2122x license with serial no 0123456789. Since this could be easily fixed by siglent, consider this as a gift for the 1st batch buyers from them. ^-^

This works for 2.01.01.15R2 version(the latest at the moment).

read file content:
/usr/bin/siglent/config # cat NSP_system_info.xml
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<nsp_system_info_root>
  <device>
    <system_information>
      <serial_number>
        <chip>SDG2XBAxxxxxx</chip>
      </serial_number>
    <license><bandwidth_update_license>xxxxxx</bandwidth_update_license></license></system_information>
  </device>
</nsp_system_info_root>

backup and remove the file:
mv /usr/bin/siglent/config/NSP_system_info.xml /usr/bin/siglent/config/NSP_system_info.xml.bak
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: kado on December 04, 2015, 01:40:36 am
Thanks for the info analogNewbie,

how could i download or upload a file via Telnet?
Put or get seem not to work. Is it possible to install any utility in the filesystem to keep the door open after
Siglent closed the gap with next update?

Karsten
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: analogNewbie on December 04, 2015, 02:48:14 am
first you should run a tftp server on pc. (tftp32.exe)
you can use these cmds to upload and download files:
tftp -l localfilename -p  192.168.1.123 
tftp -r remotefilename -g 192.168.1.123

/ # tftp
BusyBox v1.13.2 (2012-04-08 17:28:57 CDT) multi-call binary

Usage: tftp [OPTION]... HOST [PORT]

Transfer a file from/to tftp server

Options:
        -l FILE Local FILE
        -r FILE Remote FILE
        -g      Get file
        -p      Put file


In the future, Siglent might block the telnet interface. So everything is at you own risk. Good luck.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: CustomEngineerer on December 04, 2015, 04:25:20 am
analogNewbie, is reverting the change as simple as moving the backup back to /usr/bin/siglent/config/NSP_system_info.xml?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: CustomEngineerer on December 04, 2015, 02:01:08 pm
Got a SDG2042X last week and today noticed something that doesn't seem right. I haven't tested all possible combinations of settings for this (only Linear vs Log seem to make a difference) but when generating a linear sweep, the sweep starts at the center frequency, goes up to the end frequency, jumps back to the start frequency and then goes back up to the center frequency (then starts over if trigger source is set to internal, or stays at center frequency if trigger source is manual). If I set the sweep type to log, the sweep starts at the start frequency and ends at the stop frequency like I was expecting. None of the other settings seem to have any affect on this behavior, including using CenterFreq/FreqSpan instead of StartFreq/StopFreq. I am testing by hooking the generator directly to my scope with a coax, generator set to 50Ohm Load and scope set to 50Ohm input. This is the first generator that I've owned that could do sweeps so maybe they all behave this way, but to me it seems like both Linear & Log sweep types should work like the Log sweep does. To make it easier to verify this behavior I set the sweep trigger source to manual (though it does the same if set to internal) and the generator outputs the center frequency when set to Linear, and the start frequency when set to Log, until I manually click the Trigger button to start the sweep. Probably not a big deal just didn't seem quite right to me. Or I just don't know how sweeps are supposed to work (which wouldn't surprise me).

SDG2042X
Hardware Version: 01-07-00-23-00
Software Version: 2.01.01.15R2 (latest to the best of my knowledge)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: alank2 on December 04, 2015, 02:11:33 pm
I've reported this as a bug and was told it was accepted and should be fixed in the next firmware version.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: CustomEngineerer on December 04, 2015, 05:05:31 pm
alank2, awesome, thank you for doing that.

As for your question about sending commands to the SDG2042X. I notice it has ports 23 (telnet) and 111 (rpc) open by default. Using the siglent easywave software I connected to the SDG and watched the data sent back and forth. It looks like easywave first makes a RPC call on tcp 111 to the SDG to open another port. The SDG opens tcp port 703 and then easywave and the SDG communicate on that port so you might be able to connect on that port.

After that I tried rigol's ultra sigma software and told it to connect to the SDG's IP address, launched its SCPI control panel and was able to send and read data from the SDG.

 * Connected to: TCPIP::192.168.8.42::INSTR
-> *IDN?
<- (Return Count:54)
Siglent Technologies,SDG2042X,SDG2XB********,2.01.01.15R2

It looks like ultra sigma is also connecting over tcp port 703. Finally I tried the RigolBildschirmkopie software and it was able to connect and allowed me to send remote commands and read data from the SDG as well.

edit: forgot to mention that once I had connected to the SDG once, tcp port 9009 is also now open.
And running netstat on the SDG shows that is it also listening to tcp ports 708 and 709, and udp ports 111 and 699, though these don't appear to be open from the outside.

edit2: Not trying to suggest you need rigol software (also not suggesting RigolBildschirmkopie is made by rigol) to talk to your siglent generator, I just already had those 2 programs installed. I'm sure any software that can send SCPI commands would work.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: alank2 on December 05, 2015, 12:11:28 am
I did get it working with some help with Siglent using NI MAX.  I guess I was thinking you could just telnet to an open port and send/receive commands over that, but perhaps it works differently (or is more complicated than that).
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: mr.os on December 05, 2015, 12:50:26 am
It is LXI. That uses VXI-11 for LAN communication that is using simple RPCs. It is designed to work with IO libraries (HPAK IO, NI MAX, ...).The specs are all freely available.
I'm building a GPIB-to-LXI interface at the moment so I know that VXI is not really complicated. But I think it is the best to use it with the IO libraries.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: gby on December 19, 2015, 07:23:23 am
Siglent USA just posted on updated FW for the SDG2000x generators.  Pretty good/long list of bugs fixed and a few new features.  Cut and pasted change log below.

2015/11/30 2.01.01.16R2
1. Added phase deviation option in channel tracking mode
2. Optimized the User Interface, including save/recall, arb, etc.
3. Supported long pressing the Output key to switch the load between 50ohm and HiZ
4. Supported to autosave the imported binary file (*.bin).
5. Fixed some bugs
  a) Unexpected change on Phase difference between channels in sweep mode when switching the style between linear and log
  b) Channels not aligned when the frequency of one channel is integral multiple of another
  c) Wrong sweep profile when using manual trigger
  d) Unexpected reset on output when setting illegal parameters
  e) Unstable waveform at the beginning of after enabling the output
  f) Display error when switching between TrueArb and DDS in Arb mode
  g) Frequency deviation display problem in Counter mode
  h) Wrong project name in system information
  i) When pressing the waveform button, the parameter button flashes
  j) Unable to set variable load value without touch screen
  k) Unexpected digit jumping when setting parameters with the knob
  l) Set CH2 to invert and then do a system -> default, the option will return to “normal”, but the signal will stay inverted.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on December 19, 2015, 08:07:15 am
Siglent USA just posted on updated FW for the SDG2000x generators.  Pretty good/long list of bugs fixed and a few new features.  Cut and pasted change log below.

2015/11/30 2.01.01.16R2
1. Added phase deviation option in channel tracking mode
2. Optimized the User Interface, including save/recall, arb, etc.
3. Supported long pressing the Output key to switch the load between 50ohm and HiZ
4. Supported to autosave the imported binary file (*.bin).
5. Fixed some bugs
  a) Unexpected change on Phase difference between channels in sweep mode when switching the style between linear and log
  b) Channels not aligned when the frequency of one channel is integral multiple of another
  c) Wrong sweep profile when using manual trigger
  d) Unexpected reset on output when setting illegal parameters
  e) Unstable waveform at the beginning of after enabling the output
  f) Display error when switching between TrueArb and DDS in Arb mode
  g) Frequency deviation display problem in Counter mode
  h) Wrong project name in system information
  i) When pressing the waveform button, the parameter button flashes
  j) Unable to set variable load value without touch screen
  k) Unexpected digit jumping when setting parameters with the knob
  l) Set CH2 to invert and then do a system -> default, the option will return to “normal”, but the signal will stay inverted.
WARNING  ;)

You might want to check this new FW does not undo analogNewbie's tweak:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/msg800106/#msg800106 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/msg800106/#msg800106)

Link to this new FW:
http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDG2000X%20Update-16R2.rar (http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDG2000X%20Update-16R2.rar)


Edit
FW link fixed
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: TheSteve on December 19, 2015, 08:18:36 am
Siglent USA just posted on updated FW for the SDG2000x generators.  Pretty good/long list of bugs fixed and a few new features.  Cut and pasted change log below.

2015/11/30 2.01.01.16R2
1. Added phase deviation option in channel tracking mode
2. Optimized the User Interface, including save/recall, arb, etc.
3. Supported long pressing the Output key to switch the load between 50ohm and HiZ
4. Supported to autosave the imported binary file (*.bin).
5. Fixed some bugs
  a) Unexpected change on Phase difference between channels in sweep mode when switching the style between linear and log
  b) Channels not aligned when the frequency of one channel is integral multiple of another
  c) Wrong sweep profile when using manual trigger
  d) Unexpected reset on output when setting illegal parameters
  e) Unstable waveform at the beginning of after enabling the output
  f) Display error when switching between TrueArb and DDS in Arb mode
  g) Frequency deviation display problem in Counter mode
  h) Wrong project name in system information
  i) When pressing the waveform button, the parameter button flashes
  j) Unable to set variable load value without touch screen
  k) Unexpected digit jumping when setting parameters with the knob
  l) Set CH2 to invert and then do a system -> default, the option will return to “normal”, but the signal will stay inverted.
WARNING  ;)

You might want to check this new FW does not undo analogNewbie's tweak:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/msg800106/#msg800106 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/msg800106/#msg800106)

Link to this new FW:
http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDG2000X (http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDG2000X)

I would think they have closed the door - but if not I am impressed. Being able to hack the lower end model is the only reason I'd consider buying one.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on December 19, 2015, 08:29:27 am
Siglent USA just posted on updated FW for the SDG2000x generators.  Pretty good/long list of bugs fixed and a few new features.  Cut and pasted change log below.

2015/11/30 2.01.01.16R2
1. Added phase deviation option in channel tracking mode
2. Optimized the User Interface, including save/recall, arb, etc.
3. Supported long pressing the Output key to switch the load between 50ohm and HiZ
4. Supported to autosave the imported binary file (*.bin).
5. Fixed some bugs
  a) Unexpected change on Phase difference between channels in sweep mode when switching the style between linear and log
  b) Channels not aligned when the frequency of one channel is integral multiple of another
  c) Wrong sweep profile when using manual trigger
  d) Unexpected reset on output when setting illegal parameters
  e) Unstable waveform at the beginning of after enabling the output
  f) Display error when switching between TrueArb and DDS in Arb mode
  g) Frequency deviation display problem in Counter mode
  h) Wrong project name in system information
  i) When pressing the waveform button, the parameter button flashes
  j) Unable to set variable load value without touch screen
  k) Unexpected digit jumping when setting parameters with the knob
  l) Set CH2 to invert and then do a system -> default, the option will return to “normal”, but the signal will stay inverted.
WARNING  ;)

You might want to check this new FW does not undo analogNewbie's tweak:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/msg800106/#msg800106 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/msg800106/#msg800106)

Link to this new FW:
http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDG2000X (http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDG2000X)

I would think they have closed the door - but if not I am impressed. Being able to hack the lower end model is the only reason I'd consider buying one.
@ TheSteve
I'm going to get a 2042X in a few weeks as my company demo unit just so I can check this out for you all.  ;)
I plan to do the tweak  ;) and then apply the above FW update and then we'll find out.  >:D
IF the tweak still works I'll install each FW update as they are released and report any undesirable changes here.

Edit
Please Siglent don't send me one with FW 16.R2 installed.
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: TheSteve on December 19, 2015, 09:28:39 am
@ TheSteve
I'm going to get a 2042X in a few weeks as my company demo unit just so I can check this out for you all.  ;)
I plan to do the tweak  ;) and then apply the above FW update and then we'll find out.  >:D
IF the tweak still works I'll install each FW update as they are released and report any undesirable changes here.

Edit
Please Siglent don't send me one with FW 16.R2 installed.
 :popcorn:

Sounds good - although if they want to stop the hack I suspect they will simply disable telnet access or add a username/password combo instead of worrying about how the licensing actually functions. So while yours may continue to work it may not be possible to hack new units. So after each update please verify if you still have telnet access as well.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on December 19, 2015, 09:51:44 am
@ TheSteve
I'm going to get a 2042X in a few weeks as my company demo unit just so I can check this out for you all.  ;)
I plan to do the tweak  ;) and then apply the above FW update and then we'll find out.  >:D
IF the tweak still works I'll install each FW update as they are released and report any undesirable changes here.

Edit
Please Siglent don't send me one with FW 16.R2 installed.
 :popcorn:

Sounds good - although if they want to stop the hack I suspect they will simply disable telnet access or add a username/password combo instead of worrying about how the licensing actually functions. So while yours may continue to work it may not be possible to hack new units. So after each update please verify if you still have telnet access as well.
Sure will, that's the plan.
40 MHz is a big step from the demo SDG1010 I have now and as I don't have a personal need for more BW  if my new demo SDG2042X gets locked @ 40MHz I won't really care.


I'll probably be PM'ing some of you to hold my hand while doing this stuff as possibly I'll need some step by step guidance.  :palm:

Point me to some instructable on this, somebody please.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bson on December 19, 2015, 11:09:35 am
Has anyone tried using one of these with an external 10M frequency standard?  I assume that improves frequency accuracy and perhaps stability, but what about firmware?  Is it reliable when using an external reference?  What's the extref input impedance and expected level (AC sine, DC sine, DC square)?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: TheSteve on December 19, 2015, 11:26:07 am
Using a 10 MHz reference should always improve its frequency accuracy - however it will often increase phase noise and/or spurs unless your reference is extremely clean.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: alank2 on December 19, 2015, 02:16:07 pm
This firmware release (16R2) is excellent.  They addressed all the bugs I reported to them.  I am impressed.

It now copies BIN files from USB to the internal memory as well so you can build a BIN arbitrary wave as well.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: smgvbest on December 19, 2015, 02:19:01 pm
Talkng about external references
I can say I did hook up to my GPSDO and i had every frequency of a basic sine way from 1Hz to 120Mhz spot on.
Now I must say though even without it my SDG2122X was amazingly close.  at 10Mhz I have 10,000,000.045 on read on the HP53131
with the GPSDO of course is was 10000000.003 on the HP53131 using Gerry's 10Mhz oven reference.

At least as far as sine wave accuracy I'm very happy.  more than I need even without the GPSDO hooked up.
I was also happy with the Vrms accuracy a 1Vrms p-p read .99982 on the 34401A set for VAC 6.5Digit Slow. 


Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: rf-loop on December 19, 2015, 06:09:14 pm
Siglent USA just posted on updated FW for the SDG2000x generators.  Pretty good/long list of bugs fixed and a few new features.  Cut and pasted change log below.

2015/11/30 2.01.01.16R2
1. Added phase deviation option in channel tracking mode
2. Optimized the User Interface, including save/recall, arb, etc.
3. Supported long pressing the Output key to switch the load between 50ohm and HiZ
4. Supported to autosave the imported binary file (*.bin).
5. Fixed some bugs
  a) Unexpected change on Phase difference between channels in sweep mode when switching the style between linear and log
  b) Channels not aligned when the frequency of one channel is integral multiple of another
  c) Wrong sweep profile when using manual trigger
  d) Unexpected reset on output when setting illegal parameters
  e) Unstable waveform at the beginning of after enabling the output
  f) Display error when switching between TrueArb and DDS in Arb mode
  g) Frequency deviation display problem in Counter mode
  h) Wrong project name in system information
  i) When pressing the waveform button, the parameter button flashes
  j) Unable to set variable load value without touch screen
  k) Unexpected digit jumping when setting parameters with the knob
  l) Set CH2 to invert and then do a system -> default, the option will return to “normal”, but the signal will stay inverted.
WARNING  ;)

You might want to check this new FW does not undo analogNewbie's tweak:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/msg800106/#msg800106 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/msg800106/#msg800106)

Link to this new FW:
http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDG2000X (http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDG2000X)

I would think they have closed the door - but if not I am impressed. Being able to hack the lower end model is the only reason I'd consider buying one.

If they have learned anything about Rigol marketing tricks (originally with first DS1000E perhaps undesigned but today "designed") they do not close..... but perhaps (I will recommend) they randomly do some small changes to this "feature" so that hobbyists are continuing stay wakeup... and then some mysterious knowledge leaks if peoples do not find trick...
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: googolplex1 on December 19, 2015, 08:49:55 pm
Siglent USA just posted on updated FW for the SDG2000x generators.  Pretty good/long list of bugs fixed and a few new features.  Cut and pasted change log below.

2015/11/30 2.01.01.16R2
1. Added phase deviation option in channel tracking mode
2. Optimized the User Interface, including save/recall, arb, etc.
3. Supported long pressing the Output key to switch the load between 50ohm and HiZ
4. Supported to autosave the imported binary file (*.bin).
5. Fixed some bugs
  a) Unexpected change on Phase difference between channels in sweep mode when switching the style between linear and log
  b) Channels not aligned when the frequency of one channel is integral multiple of another
  c) Wrong sweep profile when using manual trigger
  d) Unexpected reset on output when setting illegal parameters
  e) Unstable waveform at the beginning of after enabling the output
  f) Display error when switching between TrueArb and DDS in Arb mode
  g) Frequency deviation display problem in Counter mode
  h) Wrong project name in system information
  i) When pressing the waveform button, the parameter button flashes
  j) Unable to set variable load value without touch screen
  k) Unexpected digit jumping when setting parameters with the knob
  l) Set CH2 to invert and then do a system -> default, the option will return to “normal”, but the signal will stay inverted.
WARNING  ;)

You might want to check this new FW does not undo analogNewbie's tweak:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/msg800106/#msg800106 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/msg800106/#msg800106)

Link to this new FW:
http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDG2000X (http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDG2000X)

I would think they have closed the door - but if not I am impressed. Being able to hack the lower end model is the only reason I'd consider buying one.

If they have learned anything about Rigol marketing tricks (originally with first DS1000E perhaps undesigned but today "designed") they do not close..... but perhaps (I will recommend) they randomly do some small changes to this "feature" so that hobbyists are continuing stay wakeup... and then some mysterious knowledge leaks if peoples do not find trick...

I just updated to 16R2 and it hasn't undone the tweak  :D
Telnet acces is still there and analogNewbie's method still works as far as I can tell...
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on December 19, 2015, 09:19:00 pm
I just updated to 16R2 and it hasn't undone the tweak  :D
Telnet acces is still there and analogNewbie's method still works as far as I can tell...
Welcome to the forum.

That is good news.  ;)
Of course I'll still get a unit to play with.

Thanks for confirming this.  :-+
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: analogNewbie on December 19, 2015, 10:20:02 pm
Don't worry about the firmware update.  You know what I mean. :)
Title: Re: How do I install new firmware?
Post by: tautech on December 20, 2015, 06:55:49 am
I downloaded the 17DEC2015, v2.01.01.16R2 firmware update.  It downloaded as a .rar file.

I looked in the manual and the only guidance I could find for installing it is a cryptic note in the section on utility functions that the "Firmware Update" function would "Update the firmware by the U-disk".

Does this mean that I should copy the .rar file to a USB flash drive, insert the drive into the signal generator, then invoke the Firmware Update function?
No.

You'll need a .rar unpacker, rar is a type of zipped (compressed) file.
Unpacked there is usually 3 files, the FW update, instructions and a changelog.

To check if your system already has an rar unpacker just double click on the rar FW update file.

A free selection of rar unpackers can be found here:
https://www.google.co.nz/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=rar+file+extractor+free+download+for+windows+7 (https://www.google.co.nz/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=rar+file+extractor+free+download+for+windows+7)

Once you have an unpacker installed just double click on the rar file and the program will unpack the package.

Shift the FW to your USB stick and update your AWG.


Edit
OK Bill you've worked it out.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: smgvbest on December 20, 2015, 09:13:38 am
note for those who missed it there are 2 update files in the file.
one is a *.ADS file which is the firmware update
the other is a *.CFG file
first pass through I missed this but then read the instructions again
Just in case anyone did the same thing
kinda hope i'm not the only one
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: gby on December 21, 2015, 01:08:06 am
After doing the update I noticed that some (all) of my settings had changed.  Specifically, right after the 16R2 .ADS download I had the beep for each button push on whereas my setup had been Beep off.  After I downloaded the .CFG file included with the 16R2 update and power cycled I hit the Store/Recall button, selected State File Type, and loaded the .XML state file I had saved many days before this upgrade.  The unit then became unresponsive to all button pushes.  Fortunately a power cycle got me back to normal.

I did store a new .XML state file and did successfully load it back in.

So, I conclude that you should not try to load any .XML State files that were saved with FW before this version. Something in the new FW breaks compatibility with old .XML State files enough to cause the instrument to crash.

I will admit that this is the very first and only time I ever saw the instrument crash so I am not that worried about this.  Just sharing so others don't stumble on the same issue and have a moment of panic.

Edit 1/3/16:  I did report this bug to the Siglent team to fix.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: smgvbest on December 21, 2015, 05:51:06 am
That's interesting.
I would say if you are so inclined to contact Siglent and let them know of that bug.  They seem to be very responsive so maybe next fix they would have that taken care of.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on December 21, 2015, 07:18:57 am
That's interesting.
I would say if you are so inclined to contact Siglent and let them know of that bug.  They seem to be very responsive so maybe next fix they would have that taken care of.
I do wonder if user settings would be best saved before a FW update for any brand of equipment.  :-\

Although they've probably seen analogNewbie's tweak, I wouldn't point them directly to this thread.
No point rubbing their nose in it.  ;)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: smgvbest on December 21, 2015, 08:11:08 am
I do wonder if user settings would be best saved before a FW update for any brand of equipment.  :-\

Although they've probably seen analogNewbie's tweak, I wouldn't point them directly to this thread.
No point rubbing their nose in it.  ;)
As I read the comment it was a bug restoring saved settings after a firmware update that froze the SDG,and to contact Siglent directly to report a bug.  Not rubbing anyones nose, just suggesting a ligament bug be reported.   Unless I read the bug wrong???
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on December 21, 2015, 08:18:55 am
I do wonder if user settings would be best saved before a FW update for any brand of equipment.  :-\

Although they've probably seen analogNewbie's tweak, I wouldn't point them directly to this thread.
No point rubbing their nose in it.  ;)
As I read the comment it was a bug restoring saved settings after a firmware update that froze the SDG,and to contact Siglent directly to report a bug.  Not rubbing anyones nose, just suggesting a ligament bug be reported.   Unless I read the bug wrong???
Not at all smgvbest.

We'll report it but purposely not point to this thread.   ;)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: smgvbest on December 21, 2015, 09:33:29 am
smgvbest.

We'll report it but purposely not point to this thread.   ;)

I'm with you now ;)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Samogon on December 23, 2015, 08:23:40 am
first you should run a tftp server on pc. (tftp32.exe)
you can use these cmds to upload and download files:
tftp -l localfilename -p  192.168.1.123 
tftp -r remotefilename -g 192.168.1.123

/ # tftp
BusyBox v1.13.2 (2012-04-08 17:28:57 CDT) multi-call binary

Usage: tftp [OPTION]... HOST [PORT]

Transfer a file from/to tftp server

Options:
        -l FILE Local FILE
        -r FILE Remote FILE
        -g      Get file
        -p      Put file


In the future, Siglent might block the telnet interface. So everything is at you own risk. Good luck.

BTW it has tftpd server installed, so you can start it as foreground service
Code: [Select]
udpsvd -vE 0.0.0.0 69 tftpd or tweak it as inetd service.
Skipping linuxoinds here :) If you have win vista and later you can enable feature tftp client in control panel and transfer files back and force to make backups, etc
OS aslo have VI editor installed so you can edit files on the box.
And i have my SDG2042X now SDG2122X :) Siglent did it on purpose.  :-+
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: artelse on December 25, 2015, 05:52:48 am
The link to the 16R2 firmware update was dead. Here is a working one:

http://www.siglentamerica.com/prodcut-gjjrj.aspx?id=1364&tid=16&T=2 (http://www.siglentamerica.com/prodcut-gjjrj.aspx?id=1364&tid=16&T=2)

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: nugglix on December 26, 2015, 12:41:45 am
Hi Ho!

Seems that the frequency counter leaks a 10 MHz signal to it's input.

I was looking at a spectrum and noticed a 10 MHz signal where none should be.
See attached screen-dumps.

Oscilloscope is attached to a 2 winding coil attached to the inductor of the local oscillator.
In parallel the probes of the counter.
Oscilloscope set to HighZ using a 10x probe.

When I switch the circuit off the 10 MHz signal persists.
When I remove the probes of the counter the 10 MHz signal is gone.

Can someone please
  a) confirm that
or
  b) tell me that I measured bullshit   ;)

Center frequency in the following pictures is 10.7 MHz.

Cheers
  Guido
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: kado on December 28, 2015, 03:28:19 am
Hi all,

need help:

after poking around with Telnet on my SDG2042X i have lost this file:

/usr/bin/siglent/config/NSP_config_upgrade_info.xml  that means my file now has only 64 Bytes until 253 before!

Could somebody mail me this file from his/her device?

Any help is apreciated.

thanks,
Karsten
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: analogNewbie on December 28, 2015, 01:43:01 pm
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<nsp_upgrade_info_root>
   <device>
      <upgrade_static_id>10600</upgrade_static_id>
      <upgrade_start_id>10600</upgrade_start_id>
      <upgrade_end_id>10700</upgrade_end_id>
   </device>
</nsp_upgrade_info_root>   
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: billfernandez on December 28, 2015, 03:10:47 pm
Seems that the frequency counter leaks a 10 MHz signal to it's input.

You seem to be correct.  I connected the signal generator's counter input directly to the input of my scope with a BNC cable and took the two screen shots below.  It looks like a 10MHz sinewave riding atop a 100MHz sinewave.

Then I added a 50Ohm shunt at the scope's input and took the third screen shot, which shows only a 10MHz anomaly.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: nugglix on December 28, 2015, 08:45:18 pm
Hi!

Seems that the frequency counter leaks a 10 MHz signal to it's input.

You seem to be correct.  I connected the signal generator's counter input directly to the input of my scope with a BNC cable and took the two screen shots below.  It looks like a 10MHz sinewave riding atop a 100MHz sinewave.

Thanks for testing.

Looks like we've another entry for the bug list.

Cheers
  Guido
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: jackenhack on December 28, 2015, 08:53:03 pm
Talkng about external references
I can say I did hook up to my GPSDO and i had every frequency of a basic sine way from 1Hz to 120Mhz spot on.
Now I must say though even without it my SDG2122X was amazingly close.  at 10Mhz I have 10,000,000.045 on read on the HP53131
with the GPSDO of course is was 10000000.003 on the HP53131 using Gerry's 10Mhz oven reference.

At least as far as sine wave accuracy I'm very happy.  more than I need even without the GPSDO hooked up.
I was also happy with the Vrms accuracy a 1Vrms p-p read .99982 on the 34401A set for VAC 6.5Digit Slow.

Yep, did the same thing. Hooked up my Trimble GPSDO and it's spot on. Very impressed with it's performance without a reference. Mine was 2.1 Hz out at 10MHz and was very stable. I do did get a slightly more jittery signal out at higher frequencies, but that went away when I used a good quality 50 ohm terminator.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: dougg on December 29, 2015, 07:34:11 am
Hi Ho!

Seems that the frequency counter leaks a 10 MHz signal to it's input.

I was looking at a spectrum and noticed a 10 MHz signal where none should be.
See attached screen-dumps.


I used my SDG2kX to generate a 100 MHz sine wave at 100 mV rms into 50 ohms. In the first attachment
that is fed into a DSA815 and only shows a harmonic at 200 MHz. In the second attachment I placed
a T attachment on the output of the SDG2kX and fed one side to the DSA815 and the other side back
to the counter on the SDG2kX (its on the back). Wow, look at all those remnants.

The log scale for frequencies (x axis) shows just how much is being generated. It seems as
though the counter is acting as a mixer of its internal 10 MHz reference and the 100 MHz being
generated by the SDG2kX. If I zoom in one of those peak frequencies, then they are pretty well exact
multiples of 10 and/or 100 MHz.


BTW the SDG2kX counter correctly reported 100 MHz as the frequency. Reporting the "frequency
deviation" as 900,000 ppm seems a bit strange, as though Siglent assume  the counter will only
be used to measure 10 MHz from another source (e.g. the DSA815 has a 10 MHz out and it
showed ~ 0.1 ppm .)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: nugglix on December 29, 2015, 09:00:39 pm
Hi!

I used my SDG2kX to generate a 100 MHz sine wave at 100 mV rms into 50 ohms. In the first attachment
that is fed into a DSA815 and only shows a harmonic at 200 MHz. In the second attachment I placed
a T attachment on the output of the SDG2kX and fed one side to the DSA815 and the other side back
to the counter on the SDG2kX (its on the back). Wow, look at all those remnants.

Thanks for the confirmation.

So Siglent gave us a real signal generator, signals out of every opening...
I think that's the price we pay for the price. :)

BTW the SDG2kX counter correctly reported 100 MHz as the frequency. Reporting the "frequency
deviation" as 900,000 ppm seems a bit strange, as though Siglent assume  the counter will only
be used to measure 10 MHz from another source (e.g. the DSA815 has a 10 MHz out and it
showed ~ 0.1 ppm .)

Did you notice that the reference frequency can be adjusted?
I used it to check the stability of an oscillator. Dialed in the target frequency and watched the
deviation move around. So it's not only for 10 MHz ;)

Thanks again for the test. I don't have a SA (yet!).

Cheers
  Guido
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: alank2 on December 30, 2015, 12:30:09 am
I've asked Siglent for statistics in the frequency counter (min, max, avg) and/or longer gate times and they said they would release it in a newer firmware at some point as well.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Siglent America on December 31, 2015, 01:53:38 am
"Seems that the frequency counter leaks a 10 MHz signal to it's input."

We did identify a cross-talk issue that is causing this leakage to the frequency counter port. The factory tells me they are working on the problem.

Thanks for your comments.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: nugglix on December 31, 2015, 06:39:33 am
We did identify a cross-talk issue that is causing this leakage to the frequency counter port. The factory tells me they are working on the problem.

Thanks for the info.

Would the usage of an external 10 MHz clock would avoid this issue?
Just to have a workaround.

Thanks again for the fast response!

Cheers
  Guido
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Siglent America on December 31, 2015, 08:31:58 am
Would the usage of an external 10 MHz clock would avoid this issue?

Hi Guido.

I'm not sure but it couldn't hurt anything to try it. 
Of course, the counter still functions but if the clock leakage is interfering with your circuit-under-test then that doesn't help you at this point, I know.

Regards,
Steve
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: gby on January 04, 2016, 09:20:57 am
DDS AWG Square Rise Time 2x Faster Than Built In Square Rise Time

I was working with an arbitrary waveform that has 10 cycles per period so that I could try higher output square wave frequencies on my SDG2042X generator.  In looking at the Arbitrary Wave square output I note that the rise time is much faster than when using the built in Square wave shape.  See the attached scope captures.

Test setup is generator direct to scope with 50 Ohm BNC cable with the scope set to 50 Ohm termination.  The scope is an old (circa 1992) Tek TDS-420A which is specified with 200 MHz/1.75 nSec rise time bandwidth.  So, these measurements are a little slow compared to actual.

The first one shows the built in square wave at 10 MHz.  Measured rise time is just under 9 nSec.  Using RSS to remove the scope 1.75 nSec risetime and the actual is probably more like 8.7 nSec.  My memory of testing with a different 1 GHz bandwidth scope was more like 8.4 nSec.  All good and as expected.  The instrument's data sheet lists 9 nSec max which matches well.

The second scope picture shows the arbitrary square wave shape running in DDS Arb Mode at the same 10 MHz.  Now the rise time is 4.6 nSec and again using RSS to remove the scope 1.75 nSec rise the actual is probably 4.3 nSec or about 2x faster.  Also note this waveform has a little ringing and slight undershoot before settling.

The third scope picture shows the arbitrary square wave shape running in TrueArb Arb Mode at 1.5 MHz.  Now the rise time is 8.8 nSec and again using RSS to remove the scope 1.75 nSec rise the actual is probably 8.6 nSec.  Also note this waveform has no ringing and settles in fine like the built in square.  I would say it is the same as the built in square mode except it is consistently slightly faster (8.8 for True Arb versus 9.0 for built in square).

My theory on why these results are different is that the 300 MHz update A/D 4x linear interpolator is turned on for the built in square and TrueArb modes but is not turned on for the DDS arbitrary wave.  With 4x linear interpolation the DAC output will have a linear slope with duration of 4/1.2GHz = 1/300MHz = 3.33 nSec while without the linear interpolation method turned on the DAC will try to output a step at the edge.

The output of the DAC is followed by a high order filter.  With a 3.33 nSec linear slope at the edge the output looks good with no ringing.  With a perfect step you can better see the dynamics of the filter.

Unfortunately I can not explain why the built in square and the TrueArb square are not exactly identical.  Perhaps the lower frequency of the TrueArb measurement?

The net, net of this observation is that the usable upper frequency for DDS arbitrary square waveforms is higher than for the built in one by about 2x in frequency. 

In my opinion the DAC interpolator should be on for arbitrary waves like it is for built in waves.  However, for the TrueArb and for built in square modes I would have thought it would be best to be off.  Perhaps better yet, the instrument should have a setting to turn the DAC linear interpolation mode on and off??

What do others think??

Siglent, can you help explain this behavior?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Hagrid on January 06, 2016, 12:14:33 pm
Hello, I got my SDG2042X today and really like it. Although the most stuff is self explaining I have some questions.
Using the EasyWave software I created a some waveforms to play around. Loading them to the signal generator almost without problems. But I can't delete waveforms once I saved them (solved: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/msg838169/#msg838169 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/msg838169/#msg838169)). I went into "Stored Waveforms", put the cursor on a waveform and pushed the delete button. I tells me that the file is deleted, but is still there and can be loaded. Am I doing something wrong?
The other part is about testing the device. I have a 20Mhz Hameg oscilloscope which I really like too. It is okay for the most stuff I am working on. However it is not really usefull if I want to test the signal generator completely. The risetime of my scope is 17.5ns. Is there any way for me to test how good my new signal generator meets it specs? An idea of mine was to connect a ceramic cap after a 1k resistor and a germanium diode to test the Voltage. I set the generator to 40MHz Sine and 4V(High). Using a multimeter to measure the voltage across the cap I measure 2.87V. I guess this method isn't really representetive is it?
The second method I tried was to use the internal counter of the SDG2042X. The datasheet says it is useable from 100/200mVrms.
I generated a sin(5*x) waveform in EasyWave to get a frequency of up to 100Mhz in arb (DDS) mode. At 100MHz the readings started to getting bad below 87mVpp. At 15MHz the readings of the counter do have the same quality at about 74mVpp. At 250kHz it is about 65mVpp. So it seems that the bandwith of the generator is fine :). What do you think of my methods to check the bandwith and can someone help me getting rid of the saved waveforms I can't delete?

Greetings, Hagrid
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: billfernandez on January 06, 2016, 02:18:24 pm
...I can't delete waveforms once I saved them. I went into "Stored Waveforms", put the cursor on a waveform and pushed the delete button. I tells me that the file is deleted, but is still there and can be loaded. Am I doing something wrong?

Hagrid:  Deleting works for me so I'm not sure what to say.  I press the STORE/RECALL button, select a file, press DELETE, then after the warning notice is shown I press ACCEPT.  Is that what you're doing?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: billfernandez on January 06, 2016, 02:28:54 pm
...s there any way for me to test how good my new signal generator meets it specs?

Generally you have to have better equipment than the device you are testing, and your equipment has to be calibrated, to be able to see if a device meets its specs.

An idea of mine was to connect a ceramic cap after a 1k resistor and a germanium diode to test the Voltage. I set the generator to 40MHz Sine and 4V(High). Using a multimeter to measure the voltage across the cap I measure 2.87V. I guess this method isn't really representetive is it?

By "4V(High)" I assume you mean that the generator was set to output "4Vpp" into a "High Impedance".  If your 1K resistor is enough to put it into the range that Siglent considers "high" impedance, and if your test setup behaves well at 40MHz, then I would expect an accurate DMM to read about 2.83VDC (4 divided by 2 times .707).

Oh, but wait, that doesn't make sense.  Since the capacitor can only charge and there's no discharge path, then it would build up to the peak voltage minus the forward voltage drop of the diode.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on January 06, 2016, 03:37:13 pm
Hello, I got my SDG2042X today and really like it. Although the most stuff is self explaining I have some questions.

 I have a 20Mhz Hameg oscilloscope which I really like too. It is okay for the most stuff I am working on. However it is not really usefull if I want to test the signal generator completely. The risetime of my scope is 17.5ns. Is there any way for me to test how good my new signal generator meets it specs?
Did it not come with an official Cal cert?
What's the problem, do you not trust it meets advertised specs?

Know that it will and enjoy.  ;)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Hagrid on January 06, 2016, 11:55:07 pm
Hagrid:  Deleting works for me so I'm not sure what to say.  I press the STORE/RECALL button, select a file, press DELETE, then after the warning notice is shown I press ACCEPT.  Is that what you're doing?

(solved: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/msg838169/#msg838169 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/msg838169/#msg838169))

This doesn't work for me either. The first way I tried it:
Parameter-->Arb Type-->Stored Waveforms--> Trying to delete a file -->No success.
The way you told me:
Store Racall-->Trying to delete a file --> No success.

They are all saved under Local(C:). All selftests are completely OK.
The waveforms are still displayed. I restarted the unit after deleting them and still see them in the list and can load them.
I tried to delete a file from a connected flash drive. This does not work either. I made a video and uploadet it.
Here is the link: http://cloud.directupload.net/4Cqx (http://cloud.directupload.net/4Cqx)

@billfernandez: No I mean a 8Vpp Signal so the high value is 4V.
@tautech: Yes I came with a certificate but I really like to test stuff myself if I can. I trust them too. However I love to search for bugs in calculators or see how far I can push some things  ;D.

Greetings, Hagrid
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: billfernandez on January 07, 2016, 10:17:02 am
Hagrid:  It looks like you follow exactly the same steps I do to delete a stored waveform.  I wonder why it works for me and not for you.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: CustomEngineerer on January 07, 2016, 02:17:58 pm
The first time I tried to delete a stored waveform the same thing happened to me. I tried again a little later and it worked. I don't remember exactly what I did different but I don't seem to have a problem deleting them anymore. Maybe make sure you aren't actively using the waveform before you try to delete it, change the waveform to one of the standard built in ones (sin or square or something else). Or when you get to the window to delete it, try to click on something else (using the multiturn knob) and then select the waveform again and delete it. Just tried again and didn't make a difference, it deletes them everytime for me regardless of what I try. Sorry. I do know that I was initially having problems with the first arb waveform I sent to the scope using EasyWave. I couldn't get it to display correctly so I kept try to change the waveform in EasyWave and then resending to the SDG2042X with the same file name. When I would view it on my scope it would look like a couple of different waveforms combined, but none of the ones I had tried to create. I was about to give up on easy wave and so I tried a different name for the waveform file and ever since then it has worked fine. I've also been able to delete them since. I have no idea what caused this behavior.

Edit: Strike through bogus suggestions and added extra info after.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Hagrid on January 07, 2016, 05:36:32 pm
(solved: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/msg838169/#msg838169 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/msg838169/#msg838169))
Hello again, I tried it now again. I can delete files but only some. If a waveform is called "wave3" I can delete it without any problems.
"Sin(3x)_10kp" for example can not be deleted. If I import another waveform with the same name it gets overwritten. Why is it impossible to delete files if they have some special names? This is strange.

Greetings Hagrid
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: CustomEngineerer on January 07, 2016, 05:47:53 pm
When I initially had troubles deleting the file it was named "wave1". But again, its no longer a problem. I can now delete it regardless of the name. I have used a bunch of different names, from "wave[12345]" to names describing what the waveform is, and its not a problem to delete them anymore.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Salas on January 07, 2016, 07:56:24 pm
I got one too. Well loaded with functions and performance for the price but It could have a quieter fan. I kinda miss my previous Instek ARB gen for noiseless and straightforward operation but this one has more stuff and modes to offer so its OK. I wonder if it will bring more noise when extended to 120MHZ like scopes with wider bandwidth do? I also saw the 120 MHZ sine signal kinda crooked on Dave's video. I see that the 40MHz sine fidelity is fine in my test though. So are there performance trade offs in extending to the full bandwidth option?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on January 07, 2016, 08:09:28 pm
I got one too. Well loaded with functions and performance for the price but It could have a quieter fan. I kinda miss my previous Instek ARB gen for noiseless and straightforward operation but this one has more stuff and modes to offer so its OK. I wonder if it will bring more noise when extended to 120MHZ like scopes with wider bandwidth do? I also saw the 120 MHZ sine signal kinda crooked on Dave's video. I see that the 40MHz sine fidelity is fine in my test though. So are there performance trade offs in extending to the full bandwidth option?
That's a nice waveform considering it's 9V p-p @ 40 MHz.
Often attempting to produce a large amplitude HF waveform with an AWG will affect waveform fidelity. If you look at various HF waveforms posted on EEVblog you'll notice the p-p settings set quite low for this reason.
As the HW in the SDG2kX range is all the same AFAIK there should be no difference in operation if you decide to improve it.  ;)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Salas on January 07, 2016, 08:56:16 pm
~10V p-p actually 8) OK lets lobby for Noctua replacement fans now ;)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: rf-loop on January 07, 2016, 11:07:20 pm
I got one too. Well loaded with functions and performance for the price but It could have a quieter fan. I kinda miss my previous Instek ARB gen for noiseless and straightforward operation but this one has more stuff and modes to offer so its OK. I wonder if it will bring more noise when extended to 120MHZ like scopes with wider bandwidth do? I also saw the 120 MHZ sine signal kinda crooked on Dave's video. I see that the 40MHz sine fidelity is fine in my test though. So are there performance trade offs in extending to the full bandwidth option?

Why there is oscilloscope  BW rejection ON in this image, or what is this "B" meaning? 

What is signal true level?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on January 07, 2016, 11:12:51 pm
I got one too. Well loaded with functions and performance for the price but It could have a quieter fan. I kinda miss my previous Instek ARB gen for noiseless and straightforward operation but this one has more stuff and modes to offer so its OK. I wonder if it will bring more noise when extended to 120MHZ like scopes with wider bandwidth do? I also saw the 120 MHZ sine signal kinda crooked on Dave's video. I see that the 40MHz sine fidelity is fine in my test though. So are there performance trade offs in extending to the full bandwidth option?

Why there is 20MHz BW rejection ON in this image? 

What is signal true level?
:-DD
Nothing wrong with rf-loop's eyes, but mine  :palm: I missed that.  |O
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Hagrid on January 08, 2016, 12:19:00 am
(Solved: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/msg838169/#msg838169 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/msg838169/#msg838169))
Hello, I have some more information about the deleting problem.
I have tested some file names.
Not recognized symbols: öäü§²³°€~´

"wave[3]": Can be deleted takes a while, like a file with a regular name. My file was about 64kB in size. The SDG2042X told me it was deleted. After the message I pulled the flash drive out, but the file was still on the flash drive. I tried it another time and noticed my flash drive blinking about 3 seconds after the message. I pulled it out after the blinking and the file was deleted. A 22MB big file behaved the same so no problem here.
"wave{3}": Same as "wave[3]".
"wave_3" : Same as "wave[3]".

Filenames containing: "`'&#()-_;@" could NOT be ereased on my device.

I have loaded some waveforms containing these symbols before I knew I could not erase them. So what am I supposed to do now?
I have written them a PM, hopefully I get an answer and we get a fix  ;D.

Greetings, Hagrid
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Salas on January 08, 2016, 03:23:56 am
I got one too. Well loaded with functions and performance for the price but It could have a quieter fan. I kinda miss my previous Instek ARB gen for noiseless and straightforward operation but this one has more stuff and modes to offer so its OK. I wonder if it will bring more noise when extended to 120MHZ like scopes with wider bandwidth do? I also saw the 120 MHZ sine signal kinda crooked on Dave's video. I see that the 40MHz sine fidelity is fine in my test though. So are there performance trade offs in extending to the full bandwidth option?

Why there is oscilloscope  BW rejection ON in this image, or what is this "B" meaning? 

What is signal true level?

I had forgotten the 100MHZ limit on the 200MHZ scope on. The level displayed is true (LMR-195 coax, scope input ratio X1, HiZ).
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Salas on January 08, 2016, 03:31:53 am
Here I run it again with all the parameters showing :)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: rf-loop on January 08, 2016, 09:00:26 pm
Here I run it again with all the parameters showing :)

As you told there B can be 20MHz or 100MHz BW rej so in 100MHz position all ok.



-------------------------
Not just for you  but also common sidenote:

Even with as low as 40MHz "nearly DC" impedance matching is still important for quality mesurements.

Here in  connect signal from 50ohm source impedance  using 50ohm coaxial and connect it to oscilloscope 1Mohm input.
Result is perhaps between garbage to nearly right but without more checks you do not know how much there is error with oscilloscope displayed level.  It is sure in this case error is not big but this source of errors need keep in mind.



Here very simplified example where I do not make "show" where I set this test for maximal error.

There is two enough indentical cables but lenght 60cm and 120cm, in this case (not China Export junk cables) good quality RG58 test cables and of course with Suhner connectors. (note: type RG58 cable, even if it is best quality, is total junk for real high grade lab works other than DC - audio)

Test
Source 50ohm and level passed for 6Vpp on the output connector if load is 50ohm and also set for 6Vpp when there is no load.

Images 1 and 2.
oscilloscope input 50ohm.

1. Connected using 60cm cable.
2. Connected using 120cm cable.

Level do not change much

images 3 and 4
oscilloscope input 1Mohm

3. 60cm 
4. 120cm
(and images are in right order!)

Level change  enough for show that cable lenght is markable error source when there is high level error with impedance match. Even with low 40MHz freq.
 
Who knows now what is level with 40cm or 100cm cable... or 150cm cable, or if sstill keep 50ohm cable but cable type change.
(btw, in free air 40MHz wavelenght is ~7,5m and in cable it is less, perhaps something like ~5m)
 
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Hagrid on January 09, 2016, 12:00:02 am
Hello again, I managed to get rid of those evil, undeleteable waveforms. So if somebody has the same problem like me he might be interested in the solution.
There has already be mentioned early in this thread the ability to connect to the device via telnet. That is what I did. after some searching I found the location where the waveforms are stored: "usr/bin/siglent/usr/usr".
Unfortunetally I wasn't able to delete a single file because they contained symbols which result in a syntax error if I typed in their name in the command.
So I deleted the last "usr" directory, in my case there were only the waveforms I wanted to delete. In "usr/bin/siglent/usr" are some files which I don't want to touch. I think it is not such a good idea to delete random files ;). I created a new empty usr directory so the path "usr/bin/siglent/usr/usr" is complete now again. After a look on the device I was confirmed that the files were gone, yey.

If somebody tries this please make sure you don't delete the whole usr directory. I bet this would be quite a desaster. Please make sure that "/usr/bin/siglent/usr/usr only containes the waveforms you want to delete. I don't know if this location will stay the same if Siglent release an update some day.
You do this at you own risk, don't poke the wrong files.
I hope they keep the telnet open. Looks like it can be sometimes really handy.

Greetings, Hagrid
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Salas on January 09, 2016, 12:39:51 am
@ rf-loop

Thanks for the side note. I was only after a visual signal shape fidelity check at max output frequency & amplitude though.

I run some AF FFT by the way. Not bad for a general purpose gen. 1V RMS and 0.3VRMS. Channel 2 is doing better in my unit.

A full spectrum flatness spec confirmation test remains to be done by someone with calibrated wide bandwidth equipment.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: fitch on January 15, 2016, 11:41:19 pm
Just curious, using analogNewbie's hack, is there a way to restore the original serial number?

Thanks.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: mojoe on January 16, 2016, 06:34:34 am
I was disappointed to read that this series only goes up to 25 MHz for square waves. I need 30 MHz. Can the arb function be used to generate a 30 MHz square wave?

Are there any similar products from other vendors that will do 30 MHz square waves?

Also, to the person who said that the arb function can be used to generate sine waves beyond the normal top frequency, please elaborate. I don't have one of these yet, so I'm not up on using an arb function.

Thanks.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: billfernandez on January 18, 2016, 04:11:27 pm
Just curious, using analogNewbie's hack, is there a way to restore the original serial number?

I haven't done the hack, but his hack is simply to remove a file (which you should make a backup of before removing).  When the generator detects that the file is missing it will recreate a generic version without your password.  I expect that if you were to delete the auto-generated file, and replace it with the file you backed up, that the generator would have its password restored (since it's coded into the file). 
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: JohnG on January 23, 2016, 01:39:18 am
I can add a few comments regarding the performance of this generators, some positives and some bugs (big ones for me :-\). My background for the last several years is as a power electronics engineer, first for a couple big companies, and now a small one for the last year or so. For the latter, I have been getting by with an old HP6012, but having pulse width change over time and from day to day has been a big problem, and sometimes I need signals for modulation, to test startup, transient behavior, etc., but a high-end ARB/pulse gen has been out of reach. The big problem with most of the budget ones has been pulse jitter that basic makes them unusable, along with limited duty cycle range. I'm happy to say that the SDG2042X meets these needs for me and I have been happy with that.

A very nice feature for me is the dual output, with the ability to delay or phase shift one pulse with respect to another. Many power converters have two switches that must be operated roughly out of phase with each other, but often with some small but important deadtime where both are off, or overlap time where both are on. It looks like the 2042X can do this, but...

There is are some show-stopper bugs for me in the synchronization of the two outputs during enabling of outputs, and during changing of pulse widths, and perhaps more. I did not dig deeper, since I get paid for other things, and I need to get paid.

Bug 1: With a pulse output on both channels, and channel 2 delayed with respect to channel 1, if you enable channel 1, then channel 2, the waveform initially looks good. However, a fast scope shows that when channel 2 is enabled, there is actually a small glitch where there is no delay. If these are controlling two switches in a half-bridge power converter, during the glitch you are shorting the power bus with your transistors. Not good. Hopefully this shows up in the first attachment, where I have the scope on infinite persistence. If you look closely, you can see the bright traces, and the faint trace. The bright trace shows a double trace in channel 2, and this is not jitter. This only happens as you enable channel 2. If you look more closely, you can see a faint green trace where channel 2 is not delayed. This only happens for a brief period after enabling channel 2.


Bug 2: If you adjust the delay setting on the fly, the same thing happens as with Bug 1. I spent some more time with triggering to try and capture this, in the second attachment. I start with channel 2 delayed from channel 1 by 10ns, and I have the scope set to trigger if the delay becomes longer than 15 ns. The top trace shows several ms of capture, and the bottom trace shows a zoomed in view prior to the trigger. When the delay is set to 10ns, the scope is not triggering, and then I change the delay to 20 ns, which causes the scope to trigger.

If you look at the zoomed-in waveform, before about -2.5454 ms, the delay is about 10 ns, as set. After this, the delay goes to zero, and stays that way for over 2 ms, with one dropout along the way. Finally, at t=0, the delay hits 20 ns as desired.

This basically means that the dual pulse output is of very limited use for me. 2 ms of the wrong setting will easily fry a couple of small power transistors (GaN power FETs in my case) when they are shorting a power bus. I really hope this can be fixed in a firmware update, and I've seen that Siglent hangs around here, so I hope they are looking.

I'm still keeping the generator. It meets or exceeds all my other needs. I just really wanted to be able to use the two channels for driving a power half-bridge without needing a bunch of other stuff to synchronize every thing. I will note that the Rigol 4162 that I got at my old job also could not do this properly, and it had so much jitter as to be much less useful.

John
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: alank2 on January 23, 2016, 02:56:52 am
Reports these bugs to Steve @ Siglent and he will get them on the bug list to get fixed.  They have fixed many bugs that I reported.  PM me if you want his email address.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on January 23, 2016, 05:54:50 am
Reports these bugs to Steve @ Siglent and he will get them on the bug list to get fixed.  They have fixed many bugs that I reported.  PM me if you want his email address.
Yes, Steve should see this, but he's in China ATM so I'll point Tech support to JohnG's post also.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: JohnG on January 23, 2016, 05:57:52 am
Thanks, I did email Steve with the info as well.

John
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on January 23, 2016, 06:08:23 am
Thanks, I did email Steve with the info as well.

John
Welcome to the forum and thanks for providing feedback.

Of course it's now the weekend in China so it'll take a couple of days to get a response.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: markone on January 23, 2016, 01:32:45 pm
-snip

Bug 1: With a pulse output on both channels, and channel 2 delayed with respect to channel 1, if you enable channel 1, then channel 2, the waveform initially looks good. However, a fast scope shows that when channel 2 is enabled, there is actually a small glitch where there is no delay. If these are controlling two switches in a half-bridge power converter, during the glitch you are shorting the power bus with your transistors. Not good. Hopefully this shows up in the first attachment, where I have the scope on infinite persistence. If you look closely, you can see the bright traces, and the faint trace. The bright trace shows a double trace in channel 2, and this is not jitter. This only happens as you enable channel 2. If you look more closely, you can see a faint green trace where channel 2 is not delayed. This only happens for a brief period after enabling channel 2.


Bug 2: If you adjust the delay setting on the fly, the same thing happens as with Bug 1. I spent some more time with triggering to try and capture this, in the second attachment. I start with channel 2 delayed from channel 1 by 10ns, and I have the scope set to trigger if the delay becomes longer than 15 ns. The top trace shows several ms of capture, and the bottom trace shows a zoomed in view prior to the trigger. When the delay is set to 10ns, the scope is not triggering, and then I change the delay to 20 ns, which causes the scope to trigger.

Good to know, i have some questions about :

-have you also noticed pulse width+ distorsion during parameters change ?
-have you operated the generator by hand on UI panel or by remote interface ?
-are you using the last available FW version ?

In the past i developed a fast prototyping system for induction heating cooktoop (a module with 2 channel, 7KW total power), based on fpga system where i was driving two half bridge drivers (couple of 80A/600V IGBTs each with IC floating gate drivers), but honestly i never dared two go straight to drive them, at logic level of course, with a pulse generator, even if the system was HW protected for cross conduction events / output overcurrent by mean of "leg" current sensors / ultrafast comparators and latched inhibition logic, for the simple reason that is too risky also to play on the fly by hand with parameters, considering that also a missed conduction cycle is a serious problem on that kind of application (the load is a resonant circuit).

I assume that you are working with a low power / low voltage system and you do not strictly need such kind of subsidiary protection systems, but if this kind of work is a recurrent activity then would be nice to develop a dedicated driving system to preserve your circuit & your safety.

I haven't yet studied the instrument control interface command set at all (... but i will have to do soon), maybe there are instructions to apply pulse width, delay, phase changes in a syncronous way on both channels without glitch, with a proper sequencing, that of course has to be put in place by am external program.

It could be a workaround viable during the wait for the firmware fix, since in the meantime i will not hold my breath ;-)

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: nctnico on January 23, 2016, 01:34:41 pm
Not SDG2000 specific but I also noticed the SDG1000 series does not do very clean startups of waveforms!
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: JohnG on January 24, 2016, 06:40:23 am

Good to know, i have some questions about :

-have you also noticed pulse width+ distorsion during parameters change ?
-have you operated the generator by hand on UI panel or by remote interface ?
-are you using the last available FW version ?

In the past i developed a fast prototyping system for induction heating cooktoop (a module with 2 channel, 7KW total power), based on fpga system where i was driving two half bridge drivers (couple of 80A/600V IGBTs each with IC floating gate drivers), but honestly i never dared two go straight to drive them, at logic level of course, with a pulse generator, even if the system was HW protected for cross conduction events / output overcurrent by mean of "leg" current sensors / ultrafast comparators and latched inhibition logic, for the simple reason that is too risky also to play on the fly by hand with parameters, considering that also a missed conduction cycle is a serious problem on that kind of application (the load is a resonant circuit).

I assume that you are working with a low power / low voltage system and you do not strictly need such kind of subsidiary protection systems, but if this kind of work is a recurrent activity then would be nice to develop a dedicated driving system to preserve your circuit & your safety.

I haven't yet studied the instrument control interface command set at all (... but i will have to do soon), maybe there are instructions to apply pulse width, delay, phase changes in a syncronous way on both channels without glitch, with a proper sequencing, that of course has to be put in place by am external program.

It could be a workaround viable during the wait for the firmware fix, since in the meantime i will not hold my breath ;-)

I am using the latest firmware. I was changing the pulse delay parameter for channel 2 on the fly, using the knob.

I understand the risks you are talking about. Unfortunately, I don't have the bandwidth to learn FPGA programming, and most of my concerns are with simple looking circuits, voltages <200V (with a few exceptions), but with extremely fast switching. By that, I mean switching 10s of volts and 10s of amps in a few ns, or possibly in less than 1ns. I'm more concerned about basic power stage performance with new power FETs. For this kind of application, being able to use a dual channel generator would save a lot of time, if I can rely on the synchronization under my test conditions. I will note that I have seen very sophisticated and supposedly bulletproof controls and drivers still manage to turn on two transistors on simultaneously, but never for very long  :palm:.

I did work on an induction cooker in a past life. We were evaluating the possibility of one that would work with aluminum or copper pots. As it turns out, it is possible. Maybe not cost effective, though.

John
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: markone on January 24, 2016, 07:55:18 am

I did work on an induction cooker in a past life. We were evaluating the possibility of one that would work with aluminum or copper pots. As it turns out, it is possible. Maybe not cost effective, though.

John

Yep,  "all metal" induction heating cooktops are reality from many years, HW wise its matter to work up to 100Khz instead of 50Khz plus some tricks on hob coil design, anyway they are a lot expensive without any good reason, so are quite rare on home appliance market.

If you are not familiar with FPGA design, you can still develop a dedicated PWM generator with a microcontroller evaluation board with USB interface and advanced pwm generator like microchip dsPIC33E (or similar), once properly programmed they are quite robust.

Returning on topic, depending on how phase linked channels mechanism is implemented on our 2042x, it could be not so simple for siglent to fix the bug to comply this specific need, but i would bet that this is not the only generator affected by such problem.



Title: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: fitch on January 25, 2016, 09:02:24 am
Gby,
First I want to comment on your scope.  The pictures look like they came from mine, a TDS-694C.  But with the same 10G sample rate as yours, mine yields a 3G bandwidth.

Anyway, I think your analysis of the modes is right.  However, I think the reason you are seeing slightly different rise times between built in and TrueArb is due to slight measurement error.s. It is possible that the difference in frequency and/or duty cycle causes the peak to peak voltage to be slightly different, and that mucks with your rise time measurement slightly.

Anyway, I just got my SDG2042X and am having fun playing with it, too.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: billfernandez on January 25, 2016, 02:21:23 pm
DDS AWG Square Rise Time 2x Faster Than Built In Square Rise Time

...In looking at the Arbitrary Wave square output I note that the rise time is much faster than when using the built in Square wave shape.  See the attached scope captures.

The second scope picture shows the arbitrary square wave shape running in DDS Arb Mode at the same 10 MHz.  Now the rise time is 4.6 nSec...

The third scope picture shows the arbitrary square wave shape running in TrueArb Arb Mode at 1.5 MHz.  Now the rise time is 8.8 nSec...

I've been experimenting with creating and running my own binary waveform files.  So far I've been testing at the full output swing (10Vpp into 50Ohms), and at various output frequencies.  I find that when I play a file in DDS mode the rise and fall times of vertical transitions is about 4.6nS.  I find that when I play the same file in TruArb mode the rise and fall times of vertical transitions is about 8.6nS.

gby, in response to your question I wonder if the generator is using DDS mode to generate its squarewaves.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: alank2 on January 25, 2016, 02:48:53 pm
There is a change in the waveform when you turn on the sweep mode too.  Try enabling sweep mode but setting the start/stop frequency to the same frequency so it really isn't sweeping.  It changes the rise/fall times and waveform shape.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: billfernandez on January 25, 2016, 03:07:38 pm
There is a change in the waveform when you turn on the sweep mode too.  Try enabling sweep mode but setting the start/stop frequency to the same frequency so it really isn't sweeping.  It changes the rise/fall times and waveform shape.

I'll try that. 

I've learned that Sweep, Burst and Modulate are disabled when in TruArb mode (but they are enabled in DDS mode).
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: fang64 on January 28, 2016, 01:28:52 pm
Thanks for the info analogNewbie,

how could i download or upload a file via Telnet?
Put or get seem not to work. Is it possible to install any utility in the filesystem to keep the door open after
Siglent closed the gap with next update?

Karsten

Another way to transfer files I've used frequently is netcat, on the receiver you can run "nc -l -p TCP_Port > somefile.xml" and on the sender ( siglent ) you would run "nc receiver_ip TCP_Port < somefile.xml"

Obviously replacing TCP_Port with a free TCP port and receiver_ip with the IP that you are sending the file to.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on January 30, 2016, 05:50:24 pm
In my Inbox from Siglent:

SDG2000X important update.

http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDG2000X-P17R5.rar (http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDG2000X-P17R5.rar)

Release notes:
http://www.siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=3608 (http://www.siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=3608)

Note
Siglent will be on Chinese New Year break until 14th Feb.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: highwayman on January 31, 2016, 01:28:54 am

Siglent will be on Chinese New Year break until 14th Feb.

I ordered an SDG2000x yesterday.  When the two month delivery appeared, I started to worry.  This ^^ may explain why the delay is so long.  I would still prefer one built before break.

To add more worry to worry, the entire SDG2000x line appears as "Discontinued" at TEquipment.NET where I placed my order.  Same with some models of the SDG1000 line.  Maybe "Discontinued" is code for "Long Lead Time"?  I'll try to shed some more light on the subject when I know more.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: markone on January 31, 2016, 02:04:53 am
In my Inbox from Siglent:

SDG2000X important update.

http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDG2000X-P17R5.rar (http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDG2000X-P17R5.rar)

Release notes:
http://www.siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=3608 (http://www.siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=3608)

Note
Siglent will be on Chinese New Year break until 14th Feb.

Lots of important bugfix, starting from the first one :

a) A bug in file system could cause the generator never startup


But i wonder if it breaks the game of the frequency update.

Volunteers that check this ?  :)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: billfernandez on January 31, 2016, 02:40:16 am
SDG2000X important update.

http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDG2000X-P17R5.rar (http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDG2000X-P17R5.rar)

Release notes:
http://www.siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=3608 (http://www.siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=3608)

One of the bug fixes on the list is "g) Unable to remove files with uncommon character(s) in their names."  I wonder/hope if this will fix the problem Hagrid was having.  I also wonder if we now will be able to have spaces in file names.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Svuppe on January 31, 2016, 03:49:26 am
But i wonder if it breaks the game of the frequency update.
Volunteers that check this ?  :)

I found this note in the enclosed pdf:
Quote
NOTE: After being updated to this release, the generator cannot be backward to previous releases any more
Point of no return  :scared:

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: markone on January 31, 2016, 04:28:27 am
But i wonder if it breaks the game of the frequency update.
Volunteers that check this ?  :)

I found this note in the enclosed pdf:
Quote
NOTE: After being updated to this release, the generator cannot be backward to previous releases any more
Point of no return  :scared:

Heck,

i missed that, now we have one more reason to fear that the upgrade game is over.

The "A bug in file system could cause the generator never startup" could be an artfully constructed danger to lead to upgrade, but i hope to be wrong.

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: billfernandez on January 31, 2016, 06:20:57 am
The new firmware seems to add a new feature:  the ability to add to a sine wave 2nd to 9th harmonic components at specified amplitudes.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: steffenmauch on January 31, 2016, 06:38:29 am
So I can give some light regarding the firmware 2.01.01.17R5.
It does not close telnet access :)
But it introduce a new dir as can be seen below.
Code: [Select]
/etc/init.d # df -h
Filesystem                Size      Used Available Use% Mounted on
ubi0:rootfs              35.2M     15.7M     19.5M  45% /
mdev                     60.9M         0     60.9M   0% /dev
ubi1_0                   85.0M     56.0K     84.9M   0% /usr/bin/siglent/usr
ubi2_0                   40.7M     24.0K     40.6M   0% /usr/bin/siglent/firmdata0
Code: [Select]
/usr/bin/siglent/firmdata0 # ls -all
drwxr-xr-x    2 1000     ding          400 Jan  1 00:09 .
drwxr-xr-x    7 1000     ding          560 Jan  1 00:00 ..
-rw-r--r--    1 root     root          241 Jan  1 00:00 NSP_system_info.xml
-rwxr-xr-x    1 root     root          484 Jan  1 00:00 NSP_trends_config_info.xml
-rwxr-xr-x    1 1000     ding           74 Jan 15  2016 version.txt
Interesting is the fact that all mounts are now read-only!
Code: [Select]
/ # mount
rootfs on / type rootfs (rw)
ubi0:rootfs on / type ubifs (ro,relatime)
proc on /proc type proc (rw,relatime)
sysfs on /sys type sysfs (rw,relatime)
mdev on /dev type tmpfs (rw,relatime)
devpts on /dev/pts type devpts (rw,relatime,mode=600)
none on /sys/kernel/debug type debugfs (rw,relatime)
ubi1_0 on /usr/bin/siglent/usr type ubifs (rw,relatime)
ubi2_0 on /usr/bin/siglent/firmdata0 type ubifs (ro,relatime)
But you can remount the filesystem easily to gain rw access:
Code: [Select]
mount -o remount,rw ubi2_0 /usr/bin/siglent/firmdata0
For all version so far it is sufficient to remove
Code: [Select]
<license><bandwidth_update_license>xxxx</bandwidth_update_license></license>from the 'NSP_system_info.xml' file.
This preserves the serial number of the device while changing the bandwidth setting.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: gby on January 31, 2016, 09:22:55 am
I find it interesting that this update has the .ADS and the .CFG files like the last (16R2) update but the instructions in this update only instruct you to load the .ADS file and not the .CFG file like last time.

Are people following the instructions (thus ignoring the .CFG file) or are people following the previous instructions and loading first the .ADS and then the .CFG file?

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: steffenmauch on January 31, 2016, 09:36:46 am
I ignored the .cfg file and loaded only the .ads to the usb stick for performing the update.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: uncle_bob on January 31, 2016, 11:50:25 am

Siglent will be on Chinese New Year break until 14th Feb.

I ordered an SDG2000x yesterday.  When the two month delivery appeared, I started to worry.  This ^^ may explain why the delay is so long.  I would still prefer one built before break.

To add more worry to worry, the entire SDG2000x line appears as "Discontinued" at TEquipment.NET where I placed my order.  Same with some models of the SDG1000 line.  Maybe "Discontinued" is code for "Long Lead Time"?  I'll try to shed some more light on the subject when I know more.

Hi

It's more than just the SDG2042X. If you dig a bit deeper the vast majority of what they still show in Siglent also shows as having stock on hand. They "discontinued" a lot more than just one function generator. Based on what is up on the web site, it looks like Tequipment and Siglent are parting ways.

I also have a generator on back order with them. Hopefully it will ship on schedule. Mine is currently showing a mid February date with an odd little note under it "Ships from an alternate warehouse".

Hopefully somebody will pop up with an announcement and let us all know what is going on.

Bob
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: markone on January 31, 2016, 12:09:37 pm
The new firmware seems to add a new feature:  the ability to add to a sine wave 2nd to 9th harmonic components at specified amplitudes.

That was already available with the previous release (16R2).
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: billfernandez on January 31, 2016, 03:38:24 pm
I ignored the .cfg file and loaded only the .ads to the usb stick for performing the update.

Me too.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: billfernandez on January 31, 2016, 03:40:40 pm
The new firmware seems to add a new feature:  the ability to add to a sine wave 2nd to 9th harmonic components at specified amplitudes.

That was already available with the previous release (16R2).

Huh.  Guess I just didn't notice until now.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on January 31, 2016, 05:32:58 pm
I find it interesting that this update has the .ADS and the .CFG files like the last (16R2) update but the instructions in this update only instruct you to load the .ADS file and not the .CFG file like last time.

Are people following the instructions (thus ignoring the .CFG file) or are people following the previous instructions and loading first the .ADS and then the .CFG file?
With some other Siglent products when a.cfg file was needed for a major update, those owners that missed that update would still require the .cfg file to update future FW updates.
There was some confusion about this and I suspect that Siglent are now just including the .cfg in the FW update package in case it's needed.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: markone on January 31, 2016, 08:41:57 pm
The new firmware seems to add a new feature:  the ability to add to a sine wave 2nd to 9th harmonic components at specified amplitudes.

That was already available with the previous release (16R2).

Huh.  Guess I just didn't notice until now.

Great feature, anyway, tested it with a spectrum analyzer time ago and works a treat.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Svuppe on January 31, 2016, 10:01:03 pm
Has anyone poked around inside one of these yet, and maybe found the serial console (ttyO0)? If so, does it provide access to a bootloader during startup?
That would be very nice for emergency recovery in case of unfortunate accidents when messing around in the file system  >:D
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: steffenmauch on January 31, 2016, 11:09:10 pm
So far I haven't open the device, but maybe parts of the output when updating is interesting for someone:

When using a text file with extension .ads the output is the following when trying to upgrade:
Code: [Select]
[WARNNING]:ui_lib_parse_child_key():line=621:Can't update parameter from cfg!!!!!!
FileHeader.product_type == 769303683
version_flag == 0
xml_upgrade_id = 10600
++++++++++++UPDATE_FAIL+++++++++++

When using the 'SDG2000_V200R001B01D01P17R5.ADS':
Code: [Select]
[WARNNING]:ui_lib_parse_child_key():line=621:Can't update parameter from cfg!!!!!!
FileHeader.product_type == 10600
version_flag == 1
xml_upgrade_id = 10600
rm: cannot remove '/usr/bin/siglent/usr/usr/upgrade': No such file or directory
Archive:  /usr/bin/siglent/usr/usr/upgrade/config.zip
   creating: app/
   creating: app/etc/
   creating: app/etc/udhcpc.d/
  inflating: app/etc/udhcpc.d/50default
   creating: app/etc/network/
   creating: app/etc/network/if-up.d/
   creating: app/etc/network/if-down.d/
  inflating: app/etc/network/options
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  inflating: app/etc/network/if-post-down.d/wpa-supplicant
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  inflating: app/etc/network/if-pre-up.d/wireless-tools
  inflating: app/etc/network/if-pre-up.d/wpa-supplicant
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  inflating: app/etc/network/interfaces
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  inflating: app/etc/resolv.conf
   creating: app/etc/hotplug/
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  inflating: app/etc/hotplug/usb/udisk_insert
  inflating: app/etc/hotplug/usb/udisk_remove
  inflating: app/etc/inittab
   creating: config/
  inflating: config/NSP_config_upgrade_info.xml
  inflating: config/NSP_limit_data.xml
   creating: config/fpga/
  inflating: config/fpga/fpga.bin
  inflating: config/version.txt
   creating: config/arb/
  inflating: config/arb/153_square_duty10.bin
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  inflating: config/arb/SDG2000X_Arb_Summary_V1.2.xlsx
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  inflating: config/arb/198_square_duty99.bin
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  inflating: datafs.img
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  inflating: drivers/fbcon_ud.ko
  inflating: drivers/softcursor.ko
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  inflating: firmdata0.img
   creating: lib/
  inflating: lib/libglog.so.0
  inflating: MLO
  inflating: ro_uImage
  inflating: rw_uImage
  inflating: sdg2000.app
  inflating: siglentlib.sh
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  inflating: update.sh
new update.sh starting ...
ubi0:rootfs / ubifs ro,relatime 0 0
rootfs ro
upgrade /usr/bin/siglent/usr/usr/upgrade/rw_uImage
Erasing 128 Kibyte @ 5e0000 -- 100 % complete
Writing data to block 0 at offset 0x0
Writing data to block 1 at offset 0x20000
Writing data to block 2 at offset 0x40000
Writing data to block 3 at offset 0x60000
Writing data to block 4 at offset 0x80000
Writing data to block 5 at offset 0xa0000
Writing data to block 6 at offset 0xc0000
Writing data to block 7 at offset 0xe0000
Writing data to block 8 at offset 0x100000
Writing data to block 9 at offset 0x120000
Writing data to block 10 at offset 0x140000
Writing data to block 11 at offset 0x160000
Writing data to block 12 at offset 0x180000
Writing data to block 13 at offset 0x1a0000
Writing data to block 14 at offset 0x1c0000
Writing data to block 15 at offset 0x1e0000
Writing data to block 16 at offset 0x200000
Writing data to block 17 at offset 0x220000
Writing data to block 18 at offset 0x240000
is 3.0 parition  version
Then the device is rebooting twice and as I connect via telnet, I can't see any further messages ...

Anyway, I started a new thread to gather information about the .ads file format.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: CustomEngineerer on February 01, 2016, 04:50:58 am
I find it interesting that this update has the .ADS and the .CFG files like the last (16R2) update but the instructions in this update only instruct you to load the .ADS file and not the .CFG file like last time.

Are people following the instructions (thus ignoring the .CFG file) or are people following the previous instructions and loading first the .ADS and then the .CFG file?
With some other Siglent products when a.cfg file was needed for a major update, those owners that missed that update would still require the .cfg file to update future FW updates.
There was some confusion about this and I suspect that Siglent are now just including the .cfg in the FW update package in case it's needed.

It appears to be a different .CFG file though. Has Siglent indicated whether its necessary to install the new one or not?

sha1sum
29c021d994cc8c40f7234c4b66a0aedd24a084ba  SDG2000X_V2.0.CFG
ebf0723a80ce91840124c51014db752134bbfb25  SDG2000X_V3.1.CFG
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on February 01, 2016, 05:29:24 am
I find it interesting that this update has the .ADS and the .CFG files like the last (16R2) update but the instructions in this update only instruct you to load the .ADS file and not the .CFG file like last time.

Are people following the instructions (thus ignoring the .CFG file) or are people following the previous instructions and loading first the .ADS and then the .CFG file?
With some other Siglent products when a.cfg file was needed for a major update, those owners that missed that update would still require the .cfg file to update future FW updates.
There was some confusion about this and I suspect that Siglent are now just including the .cfg in the FW update package in case it's needed.

It appears to be a different .CFG file though. Has Siglent indicated whether its necessary to install the new one or not?

sha1sum
29c021d994cc8c40f7234c4b66a0aedd24a084ba  SDG2000X_V2.0.CFG
ebf0723a80ce91840124c51014db752134bbfb25  SDG2000X_V3.1.CFG
Unless there's instruction in the FW install package to use the new .cfg I don't think I'd bother if the main FW .ads update fixed issues that you had noticed.

As I pointed out above, if an owner got "left behind" with FW updates the .cfg file may be needed to install much later FW and it is quite possible that the .cfg file might have to "evolve" to allow later FW updates to be installed.

Siglent (China) are now on holidays until 15 Feb.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: CustomEngineerer on February 01, 2016, 06:15:50 am
Makes sense, thanks.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Siglent America on February 02, 2016, 02:53:35 am
Greetings.

I was at the factory last week and I asked that all new FW updates contain instructions on how to upgrade from older versions. That is to say, if the latest FW version is V10 then how does one upgrade from V9, V8, V7, etc. I can't guarantee how far back these older version instructions will go but I believe this will be a big help to our customers.

Thanks.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: W7NGA on February 02, 2016, 03:06:53 am
I see that all Siglent products have been discontinued at Tequipment.net. Have they dropped their dealership or just an egregious database glitch?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: billfernandez on February 02, 2016, 05:01:19 am
I was at the factory last week and I asked that all new FW updates contain instructions on how to upgrade from older versions...

That will be great, thanks!
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Siglent America on February 02, 2016, 06:22:46 am
I see that all Siglent products have been discontinued at Tequipment.net. Have they dropped their dealership or just an egregious database glitch?

Hi W7NGA.

For an updated list of Siglent distributors in North America you can go to our Siglent America website at
http://www.siglentamerica.com/how_to_buy (http://www.siglentamerica.com/how_to_buy)

If you have any questions then you can email us at
info@Siglent.com

Thank you!
Steve
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: alank2 on February 02, 2016, 06:25:26 am
Also, Steve says no reason to load the CFG file for the latest firmware, just the ADS only.  CFG should not have been included.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: MisterBiscuit on February 02, 2016, 06:31:45 am
I see that all Siglent products have been discontinued at Tequipment.net. Have they dropped their dealership or just an egregious database glitch?

Hi W7NGA.

For an updated list of Siglent distributors in North America you can go to our Siglent America website at
http://www.siglentamerica.com/how_to_buy (http://www.siglentamerica.com/how_to_buy)

If you have any questions then you can email us at
info@Siglent.com

Wait, isn't dirty laundry supposed to be aired out in public?  ;D ;D ;D

OK, so what's the real deal here? TEquipment's EEVBLOG discount is a strong incentive that keeps me doing business with them. If there's no Siglent at TEquipment, that likely means I won't be buying any more Siglent products unless someone spills the beans on what happened here.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: alank2 on February 02, 2016, 06:33:49 am
Steve - tell the firmware devs they did a fantastic job on the new counter - wow is that much improved!  It has all the statistics I was looking for.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: TheSteve on February 02, 2016, 06:53:05 am
I see that all Siglent products have been discontinued at Tequipment.net. Have they dropped their dealership or just an egregious database glitch?

Hi W7NGA.

For an updated list of Siglent distributors in North America you can go to our Siglent America website at
http://www.siglentamerica.com/how_to_buy (http://www.siglentamerica.com/how_to_buy)

If you have any questions then you can email us at
info@Siglent.com

Wait, isn't dirty laundry supposed to be aired out in public?  ;D ;D ;D

OK, so what's the real deal here? TEquipment's EEVBLOG discount is a strong incentive that keeps me doing business with them. If there's no Siglent at TEquipment, that likely means I won't be buying any more Siglent products unless someone spills the beans on what happened here.

Wow, losing Tequipment seems pretty serious to those of us on the eevblog - that was the place to buy from!
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Siglent America on February 02, 2016, 07:27:00 am
I can't speak for our distributors on this but I would bet that if you contacted our other distributors that they (at least some of them) would offer the same discount.
But that is their call.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: saelig on February 02, 2016, 08:13:57 am
I can't speak for our distributors on this but I would bet that if you contacted our other distributors that they (at least some of them) would offer the same discount.
But that is their call.

Yes indeed - Saelig offers a discount to all our EEV friends! 

- Alan Lowne (CEO - Saelig Co. Inc.  www.saelig.com (http://www.saelig.com))
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: saelig on February 02, 2016, 08:24:16 am
I see that all Siglent products have been discontinued at Tequipment.net. Have they dropped their dealership or just an egregious database glitch?

Hi W7NGA.

For an updated list of Siglent distributors in North America you can go to our Siglent America website at
http://www.siglentamerica.com/how_to_buy (http://www.siglentamerica.com/how_to_buy)

If you have any questions then you can email us at
info@Siglent.com

Wait, isn't dirty laundry supposed to be aired out in public?  ;D ;D ;D

OK, so what's the real deal here? TEquipment's EEVBLOG discount is a strong incentive that keeps me doing business with them. If there's no Siglent at TEquipment, that likely means I won't be buying any more Siglent products unless someone spills the beans on what happened here.


We LOVE Siglent products at Saelig Co. Inc - we also offer EEVblog discounts. 

I think TE just decided to focus on other lines - they have hundreds it seems.  It's a tough world out there! 

BTW -we offer excellent tech support too in case you need advice on what to buy.

Alan Lowne
Saelig Co. Inc.  CEO
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: saelig on February 02, 2016, 08:25:56 am
I see that all Siglent products have been discontinued at Tequipment.net. Have they dropped their dealership or just an egregious database glitch?

Hi W7NGA.

For an updated list of Siglent distributors in North America you can go to our Siglent America website at
http://www.siglentamerica.com/how_to_buy (http://www.siglentamerica.com/how_to_buy)

If you have any questions then you can email us at
info@Siglent.com

Wait, isn't dirty laundry supposed to be aired out in public?  ;D ;D ;D

OK, so what's the real deal here? TEquipment's EEVBLOG discount is a strong incentive that keeps me doing business with them. If there's no Siglent at TEquipment, that likely means I won't be buying any more Siglent products unless someone spills the beans on what happened here.

Wow, losing Tequipment seems pretty serious to those of us on the eevblog - that was the place to buy from!


Don't forget Saelig Co. Inc. (NY) has the full Siglent range too - with EEVblog discounts as well.  Please spread the word!

Alan Lowne
Saelig co. Inc.  CEO
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: mojoe on February 02, 2016, 10:13:52 am

We LOVE Siglent products at Saelig Co. Inc - we also offer EEVblog discounts. 

Alan Lowne
Saelig Co. Inc.  CEO

That is great news. Is the discount the same as offered by TEquipment? Do we get a code, or how do we apply the discount when ordering?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: mojoe on February 02, 2016, 10:28:13 am
Well, the TEquipment news explains my recent bad dealings with them. I ordered an SDG2042X from them recently (would have ordered from Saelig, as usual, but tempted by the TEquipment discount). Three days later, it still hadn't shipped, so I called and was told it would ship that very day. They offered to split 2-day shipping (costing me an extra $25), so I would have it on Friday. Of course, they didn't ship it out until the next day, so I didn't get it by Friday, like I paid for. I thought about contacting TEquipment to try getting my $25 back, but after this recent news, and the way I got lied to, I won't be buying from them any more. I've never had a problem with Saelig.

On top of my bad experience, I see that I got an early piece of hardware. They must have dug up some very old stock to sell me one. They should have been honest and just told me that they could not fullfill my order.

I got HW: 01-00-00-22-00. Are there any problems that I should know about? Does anyone know the difference to the latest hardware? I have only used some basic functions so far, so I don't know if all is OK. I did flash the 16R firmware. Haven't done the recent firmware yet.

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: CustomEngineerer on February 02, 2016, 02:25:59 pm
Mojoe, as far as I know thats the only Hardware version Siglent have made. When I bought my SDG2042X at the end of November/beginning of December it showed hardware ver 01-00-00-22-00 when I received it. And then each time I have installed a new firmware version, the hardware version has increased.

Hardware Ver     Filename
01-00-00-22-00  Default Came Installed
01-07-00-23-00  SDG2000_V200R001B01D01P15R2.ADS
01-07-00-24-00  SDG2000_V200R001B01D01P16R2.ADS, SDG2000X_V2.0.CFG
01-07-00-26-00  SDG2000_V200R001B01D01P17R5.ADS
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: mojoe on February 02, 2016, 04:00:44 pm
Mojoe, as far as I know thats the only Hardware version Siglent have made. When I bought my SDG2042X at the end of November/beginning of December it showed hardware ver 01-00-00-22-00 when I received it. And then each time I have installed a new firmware version, the hardware version has increased.

Hardware Ver     Filename
01-00-00-22-00  Default Came Installed
01-07-00-23-00  SDG2000_V200R001B01D01P15R2.ADS
01-07-00-24-00  SDG2000_V200R001B01D01P16R2.ADS, SDG2000X_V2.0.CFG
01-07-00-26-00  SDG2000_V200R001B01D01P17R5.ADS

Thanks for the reply. I just checked mine after installing firmware 17R5 and it did indeed change the HW version (matching yours). Strange that it would change the HW version. To me, this should indicate a new circuit board, not just firmware. That is afterall, what the FW version number is for.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: CustomEngineerer on February 02, 2016, 04:36:08 pm
Definitely agree. Caught me by surprise when I first noticed it.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: rf-loop on February 02, 2016, 06:11:42 pm
In SDG800 manual. Perhaps SDG2kX have something similar(?):

Hardware version:
02-00-00-21-25 represents ordinally: PCB version, BOM version, Daughter
card version, FPGA version, CPLD version.
I think least FPGA and CPLD version may change after FW update.

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: MisterBiscuit on February 02, 2016, 11:02:44 pm
I can't speak for our distributors on this but I would bet that if you contacted our other distributors that they (at least some of them) would offer the same discount.
But that is their call.

Yes indeed - Saelig offers a discount to all our EEV friends! 

- Alan Lowne (CEO - Saelig Co. Inc.  www.saelig.com (http://www.saelig.com))

Hi Alan, could you be more specific? Is the EEV discount better than the 6% offered by TEquipment?

FYI, the 2nd biggest reason why I haven't purchased from Saelig in the past is that your website doesn't show "in stock" status on products. When I need something, I usually need it "now" and prefer not to have to get on the phone with multiple vendors to find out who has it in stock.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: saelig on February 03, 2016, 02:45:56 am

We LOVE Siglent products at Saelig Co. Inc - we also offer EEVblog discounts. 

Alan Lowne
Saelig Co. Inc.  CEO

That is great news. Is the discount the same as offered by TEquipment? Do we get a code, or how do we apply the discount when ordering?

Yes, I'll PM you with the code shortly!

Quote from: MisterBiscuit
FYI, the 2nd biggest reason why I haven't purchased from Saelig in the past is that your website doesn't show "in stock" status on products. When I need something, I usually need it "now" and prefer not to have to get on the phone with multiple vendors to find out who has it in stock.

I would love to have a live inventory on our website, but we simply do not have the resources to maintain such a thing just yet. Hopefully in the future! We hope to make up for this by offering items such as our free carrying cases and other discounts for our customers.

Alan Lowne
CEO
Saelig Co. Inc.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: nctnico on February 03, 2016, 05:15:19 am
Ordering from the US is a no-go for me due to shipping costs and import taxes. Having written that: I usually don't order from webshops which don't have an 'in stock' status because it usually means they don't have it.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: uncle_bob on February 03, 2016, 05:19:10 am
Ordering from the US is a no-go for me due to shipping costs and import taxes. Having written that: I usually don't order from webshops which don't have an 'in stock' status because it usually means they don't have it.

Hi

Or it results in a delivery date that is two weeks out and adjusts to stay two weeks out for a couple of months ....

Again, not a knock on any specific distributor. Simply something that has happened in the past.

Bob
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: xygor on February 03, 2016, 07:41:40 am
Arrow's tagline is "Five years out."  Seems like an odd thing for them to say, but I guess they're being honest.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: uncle_bob on February 03, 2016, 08:52:41 am
Arrow's tagline is "Five years out."  Seems like an odd thing for them to say, but I guess they're being honest.

Hi

You sort of *hope* that's not going to be the information on the "ship date" of the parts you just ordered through them :)

Bob
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tequipment on February 04, 2016, 12:58:23 am
Interesting how our competitors are speaking for us on here.  I usually never talk bad about our completion because
we are very focused on our customer experience and growing our business. 

We know test equipment better than almost anyone out there.  I personally know Siglent units very well.
We made a choice not to carry Siglent units at this time.

We started this company in 2002 with 3 people.  Here is a little background on me:
http://www.tequipment.net/vice-president-biography/ (http://www.tequipment.net/vice-president-biography/)

We often outsell our competitors by 10 to 1 because of our customer experience, good pricing,
great product data, engineers on staff, etc.

Thanks for the business.  It is very appreciated.
Best Regards,
Evan Cirelli

Vice President and CO-Founder
TEquipment.NET





Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: alank2 on February 04, 2016, 02:58:14 am
I will add that I've always had fair dealings with TEquipment over the years - and I am a picky customer who expects a company goes that extra mile.  I love the SDG2082X I ordered from you last year, I use it much more often than I thought I would.  I am actually pleased than neither company is digging dirt on the other.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: os40la on February 04, 2016, 03:23:35 am
Interesting how our competitors are speaking for us on here.  I usually never talk bad about our completion because
we are very focused on our customer experience and growing our business. 

Who is speaking for TE?  :-// We are just wondering why TE no longer carries Siglent. There was a post that someone said they THINK (which means guess in my book) TE is focusing on other lines. I hardly consider that talking bad about TE.  :palm: As far as I can find TE has said nothing about the Siglent thing which is why rumors start flowing. I don't think people are looking for a detailed reason, just something would have been nice so people who just purchased Siglent's from TE don't feel confused about their dealer (at the time) no longer selling Siglent. I use TE for my supplier and have purchased Siglent  from TE a month ago. I don't care the reason why TE is not selling. I just am trying to find out what my options are if I need support.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: smarteebit on February 04, 2016, 01:33:34 pm
Are we still talking about SDG2042X?  :-//
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: uncle_bob on February 04, 2016, 01:38:24 pm
Are we still talking about SDG2042X?  :-//

Hi

Hopefully now that Siglent / Tequipment has a thread all for its self, the discussion will move over there.

Based on the various bits and pieces, it's sort of a "nothing to see here, move on" kind of thing. The gear will get supported and nobody is getting dramatic about any of it.

Now, if my SDG2042X would just get here !!!! Still scheduled for later this month, just like it's always been.

Bob
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: os40la on February 05, 2016, 04:56:58 am
After reading thru this tread I noticed that it seems to be ok to install (SDG2000_V200R001B01D01P17R5.ADS) on a 120mhz SDG2042X >:D Is that correct? How many have applied this update and what are your thoughts. I see it is a one way and there is no going back.

I prefer to get my original serial number back. not the 1234567890'ish one. Any thoughts on the process to restore my serial and still keep 120mhz. Should I do this before the P17R5 update or after?.  I still have my original file.

should I restore this file and remove the <license>... line? then do the P17R5 update?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: alank2 on February 05, 2016, 05:03:18 am
I'll add that when doing the latest firmware update - be patient.  My unit got to 30% and then spontaneously restarted and looked like it was stuck on the startup screen for a long time.  I wait starting to get nervous that it has bricked itself or something, but it did eventually come out of it and it had applied the update.  So, give it time, don't even think of touching that power button, and let it do its thing...
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: uncle_bob on February 05, 2016, 05:06:55 am
After reading thru this tread I noticed that it seems to be ok to install (SDG2000_V200R001B01D01P17R5.ADS) on a 120mhz SDG2042X >:D Is that correct? How many have applied this update and what are your thoughts. I see it is a one way and there is no going back.

I prefer to get my original serial number back. not the 1234567890'ish one. Any thoughts on the process to restore my serial and still keep 120mhz. Should I do this before the P17R5 update or after?.  I still have my original file.

should I restore this file and remove the <license>... line? then do the P17R5 update?

Hi

Unless you bought the 120 MHz version, it seems to be an either / or sort of thing. You can have your original serial number and original bandwidth *or* you have 12345... and the full bandwidth. Several people have suggested putting your original file back before the upgrade and then reversing the process (save the file, delete the file) after the upgrade. If anybody has spotted a change in the file from the upgrade, I missed them reporting that.

Bob
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: RoadRunner on February 05, 2016, 05:51:01 pm
i have ordered my SDG2042x from aliexpress in mid January , i have received software version 1.17R5 which is listed on silent website  as latest firmware, i verify that it telnet is still working  :-+. but the old hack just remove the license fill will not working any more :-BROKE , silent has fixed it ( or broken it) ,currently you can not downgrade to lower version.

so if you have old version (<1.17R5) of firmware and you upgrade to 1.17R5 or later, it may switch to your original current license or not boot at all.

i have looked through telnet and NSP_system_info.xml file is not important any more , content is same as if get automatically by the app with serial number 0123456789 , application does not seem to care about it at all, i could not able to locate where they are storing the real license and serial now.

i deleted the NSP_system_info.xml when the siglent program was running, and it gets automatically created again.
but when i terminated siglent program , removed the file and restarted. it never get created and it does not matter if you have it or not program just run normal. 

but good news is,I was able to hack it with one other method :-DD ,

Hi

Unless you bought the 120 MHz version, it seems to be an either / or sort of thing. You can have your original serial number and original bandwidth *or* you have 12345... and the full bandwidth. Several people have suggested putting your original file back before the upgrade and then reversing the process (save the file, delete the file) after the upgrade. If anybody has spotted a change in the file from the upgrade, I missed them reporting that.

Bob

and you can still retain original serial number,i really want to share new hack  but don't know if i should share into public domain  :-//,because if silent get to know about this,  they are going to fix this in next update.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: mojoe on February 05, 2016, 05:55:59 pm
My experience with the firmware upgrade.

On the very old firmware that came with my unit, I renamed the XML file and rebooted. It booted up with full bandwidth and the generic SN. I then applied firmware 15 and everything was still good.

After reading here that firmware 17 changed a few things, but that the mod was still doable, I flashed 17 without undoing the previous mod. Upon bootup, I still had full bandwidth and the generic SN.

I then logged in and copied the original XML file with my SN to the new location. I removed the one line with the license key. Rebooted and I still have full bandwidth. No need to make the folder ro manually after the mod, as it is marked ro on bootup.

I checked the siggen on a SA and the output looks very clean, even at 120 MHz. Checking the frequency with a GPSDO-locked HP counter, it was about 18 Hz high (worst case with temperature drift) at 120 MHz. If I did the math correctly, that is 0.15 ppm. That is pretty damn good for the internal reference.

(Edited to add picture. SN partially obscured.)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: CustomEngineerer on February 05, 2016, 06:02:35 pm
@Gaurav, the way to hack it on the 17R5 is posted 10 or so posts up. It looks like Siglent tried to close the hole but didn't do a great job of it.

Edit: Actually, probably a little more than 10 posts back, but it is there.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: markone on February 07, 2016, 11:40:22 am
Hi to all,

have someone tried to set 1dBm amplitude for sine wave signal output on 50ohm load (50ohm output mode of course) ?

Mine 2042X, regardless the freq., sources 245mVrms (716mVpp), i I would have expected 223mVrms (1dBm).

The fanny thing is that the generator is spot on amplitude wise, if i set 223mVrms i obtain exactly that value, so the dBm scale seems way off.

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: rf-loop on February 07, 2016, 06:22:36 pm
Hi to all,

have someone tried to set 1dBm amplitude for sine wave signal output on 50ohm load (50ohm output mode of course) ?

Mine 2042X, regardless the freq., sources 245mVrms (716mVpp), i I would have expected 223mVrms (1dBm).

The fanny thing is that the generator is spot on amplitude wise, if i set 223mVrms i obtain exactly that value, so the dBm scale seems way off.

Error in your math, not so much in Siglent math.


---------------
Note also that many times nominal 50 ohm is not 50ohm in real world. There is tolerances but also if go out from DC there is reactances and not only pure resistance and finally what we get is sum of errors. I'm also sceptic if Siglent output is 50ohm (+/-1%) impedance over whole its frequency band. Perhaps there is this accuracy resistor but after all parasitic reactances I doubt it is true impedance with this 1% accuracy. (yes I know this is nitpicking but after we sum every single error together result may be more out what we expect. With higher frequencies it is even very fun that many 50ohm cables are not 50ohm impedance. Example Belden " semi crab" RG-58/U  is 52ohm (nominal +/- 2 ohm) and example M17/84 is nominally 50ohm +/-2ohm. Some chinese (Taiwan island) manufacturer "total junk" RG-58/U is specified 53ohm +/- 3ohm |O   and this is not yet super junk what can find in chinese "car garace" sellers and on the street and eBay.

After then come also oscilloscopes inputs impedances if scope have "50ohm" inputs or if used some external 50ohm terminators. This is other world of errors. 


But for "ideal world"
-1dBm in 50 ohm system is ~199mVrms
0dBm in 50 ohm system is ~224mVrms
1dBm in 50 ohm system is ~251mVrms

0dBm = 1mW (independent of impedance of course)


Here are  nice calculatos
http://www.daycounter.com/Calculators/Decibels-Calculator.phtml (http://www.daycounter.com/Calculators/Decibels-Calculator.phtml)

Here is Mini Circuits table
http://194.75.38.69/pages/pdfs/dg03-110.pdf (http://194.75.38.69/pages/pdfs/dg03-110.pdf)


Then:
Quote
...sources 245mVrms (716mVpp)...

Sinewave?

If there  716mVpp pure sine wave it is not 245mVrms  it is 253.1mVrms, not 245mVrms






Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Performa01 on February 07, 2016, 08:46:15 pm
Oh yes, rf-Loop has already covered this topic very nicely.

I was about to say that I'm not very good in remembering numbers, nevertheless that 224mV figure for 0dBm into 50 ohms has burned into my brain (it actually is 223.6mV).

So without a calculator, +1dBm has to be some 10% higher, hence my first guess would have been about 247mV. Of course, with the help of a calculator, we get the more exact value of 250.88mV...
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Performa01 on February 07, 2016, 09:27:39 pm
You're confusing 1dBm with 0dBm.

0dBm is 223.6mVrms into 50 ohms, +1dBm is about 10% higher, as already stated.

EDIT: Ooops - the post I was replying to has gone - so we're all in agreement now obviously  :-+
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: markone on February 07, 2016, 09:28:16 pm
Sorry, Got IT, it's my bad  |O

I do have to not always trust my self at late night  :)

Anyway, apart the DC offset that seems a little off with some low values settings (at least trusting my BM869), mine 2042X seems very precise, well within specs.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Performa01 on February 07, 2016, 09:42:10 pm
Anyway, apart the DC offset that seems a little off with some low values settings (at least trusting my BM869), mine 2042X seems very precise, well within specs.

I don’t have a SDG2000X, but I think most waveform generators will be the same in this regard, i.e. very nice low noise signal sources even for DC – much better than any ‘precision’ DC power supply – but an offset error of a couple millivolts is to be expected.
I guess this is just the offset error of the high speed operational amplifiers / buffers in the circuit.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: uncle_bob on February 08, 2016, 12:47:54 am


EDIT: Ooops - the post I was replying to has gone - so we're all in agreement now obviously  :-+

Hi

Why is it that every time *I* do those sort of errors (an alarmingly common occurrence), they get quoted and preserved forever and ever in all their un-editible glory ??

One of the features of a catalog I once wrote was a table translating things like dbm, volts rms and volts peak to peak. Conversion errors were pretty common and we would get a lot of calls from people checking out our parts.

Bob
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: markone on February 08, 2016, 04:33:49 am
Anyway, apart the DC offset that seems a little off with some low values settings (at least trusting my BM869), mine 2042X seems very precise, well within specs.

I don’t have a SDG2000X, but I think most waveform generators will be the same in this regard, i.e. very nice low noise signal sources even for DC – much better than any ‘precision’ DC power supply – but an offset error of a couple millivolts is to be expected.
I guess this is just the offset error of the high speed operational amplifiers / buffers in the circuit.

The error is quite small but not constant, you cannot compensate it with a fixed offset and/or proportional factor.
As soon as a will be able to read my BM869 under Labview (the output data format seems quite ugly and i feel lazy to write the driver) i will do a measure loop to plot the error curve.
 
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: markone on February 08, 2016, 04:55:16 am
Why is it that every time *I* do those sort of errors (an alarmingly common occurrence), they get quoted and preserved forever and ever in all their un-editible glory ??
Bob

I was fast enough to hidden my second mistake, anyway the first one is still available for any LOL & LULZ ;)

The worrying thing is that i was convinced to be right  :wtf: i mixed the will for one mW with dB unit annotation as the last nooob of the block. 
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: uncle_bob on February 08, 2016, 05:05:00 am
Hi

The DAC used on the generator (like all DAC's) has an integral non-linearity spec. Depending on the waveform and where the max error hits, this is likely to give you about four LSB of error (as mentioned earlier in this thread). If you run through the math, that alone with no other errors will get you a millivolt. If there is an opamp or three in the chain, they likely have temperature coefficients to their offset voltage. I very much doubt they put (noisy) chopper stabilized amps in there.

A milivolt or three of variation as you switch between this and that plus a couple of milivolts after cal would be doing very well. Mine doing worse than yours also would not be un-expected. This sort of stuff will vary unit to unit.

Bob
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: markone on February 08, 2016, 05:09:23 am
I was forgetting, the same behaviour apply for DC output mode.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Performa01 on February 08, 2016, 08:16:15 am
I was forgetting, the same behaviour apply for DC output mode.

Yes, of course. DC is just the programmed offset without any variation (AC signal). It is produced by a DAC and runs through all amplifiers/buffers just like any other waveform.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: markone on February 08, 2016, 08:22:53 am
I was forgetting, the same behaviour apply for DC output mode.

Yes, of course. DC is just the programmed offset without any variation (AC signal). It is produced by a DAC and runs through all amplifiers/buffers just like any other waveform.

I do not remember the exact numbers right now but i had the feeling that the displacement was sometime higher than theoretical DAC resolution step, sure not linear as a DAC scale.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Performa01 on February 08, 2016, 08:37:04 am
Very likely there is a separate DAC just for the offset, and its output is added to the main signal.

That way the main DAC can always have full resolution, i.e. all 14 (or whatever) bits can be dedicated to the signal waveshape and you still get a respectable offset range.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: uncle_bob on February 08, 2016, 09:21:51 am
Very likely there is a separate DAC just for the offset, and its output is added to the main signal.

That way the main DAC can always have full resolution, i.e. all 14 (or whatever) bits can be dedicated to the signal waveshape and you still get a respectable offset range.

Hi

Given that they have a very "affordable" instrument here and that DC performance is not a key spec, they may do something pretty simple (R2R on a 4 wire port). They also may ignore it completely. I suspect that every nickel (let alone dollar) gets watched on one of these designs. In this case, I'm glad they did. it's got a lot of bang for the buck.

Bob
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Performa01 on February 08, 2016, 09:46:39 am
Hi Uncle Bob! :)

Well, from what I've seen so far (e.g. at the beginning of this thread) DC accuracy, while not stellar, is still pretty decent.

EDIT: Having said that, a waveform generator is just a waveform generator and not a process calibrator, so (DC) accuracy needs not be stellar in my book anyway ;)

And you just need to find out what the resolution of the DC output is. Then if you know the max. output range (I think it is +/- 5V) you just need to divide 10V by the resolution and you get the number of steps required. Even if the resolution were just 10mV, you'd need a 10 bit DAC, so no way to do it with a 'homebrew' 4 wire R2R DAC ;)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: markone on February 08, 2016, 10:05:12 am
Very likely there is a separate DAC just for the offset, and its output is added to the main signal.

That way the main DAC can always have full resolution, i.e. all 14 (or whatever) bits can be dedicated to the signal waveshape and you still get a respectable offset range.

Almost certainly it's made in that way, just out of curiosity i will watch again Dave's tear down in order to spot DACs chip marking.

Sure i agree, lot bang for the bucks, i'm using it on a daily basis, works good and it's pretty.

Not yet expanded, i will do soon  ;)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Performa01 on February 08, 2016, 10:18:02 am
Sure i agree, lot bang for the bucks, i'm using it on a daily basis, works good and it's pretty.

It appears to be nice bit of kit indeed and I might be seriously tempted if I’d need one.

There are just two things I don’t like so much:

1)   There is no front connector for a sync signal. Yes, very likely there is one on the back, but I hate it when things that I actually use a lot are on the backside.
2)   The output amplifier is rather weak, as I understand it delivers full power only up to 25MHz.

Both are no huge issues, but still a pity…
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: markone on February 08, 2016, 10:21:42 am
The output amplifier is rather weak, as I understand it delivers full power only up to 25MHz.

What would be your main use ?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Performa01 on February 08, 2016, 10:46:53 am
What would be your main use ?

Nothing special. Just as a general signal source for various tests and experiments.

When testing the maximum signal handling capability and overload behaviour of amplifiers/frontends I sometimes would have wished for even more than the standard ~3.5Vrms that I can get from 10Vpp into 50 ohms. And I would not want to have only half that at frequencies above 25MHz, even though I know that pretty much any signal generator will have a frequency limit where the output power drops. But 25MHz is a little on the low side.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: billfernandez on February 08, 2016, 11:11:15 am
There are just two things I don’t like so much:

1)   There is no front connector for a sync signal. Yes, very likely there is one on the back, but I hate it when things that I actually use a lot are on the backside.
2)   The output amplifier is rather weak, as I understand it delivers full power only up to 25MHz.

FYI:

o Yes there's a sync connector on the back.  Sync only works up to 1MHz (which seems really low to me).

o The output into 50Ohms is 10Vpp up to 20MHz, then 5Vpp above that (squarewaves go up to 25MHz, sinewaves go up to 40MHz).

o Into "hi-Z" the max output voltage is double the above.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: JohnG on February 09, 2016, 09:12:57 am
Update to my dual output pulse synchronization issues:

The issues I had earlier with output pulses temporarily losing the delay setting between channels while changing parameters seems to be fixed with the last firmware revision, so thanks, Siglent.

New problem discovered:
When enabling a channel, the DC offset appears to be enabled before the pulse output, and intermittently as well. This can be a big problem when you are starting up. I hope this can be fixed as well. Generator set at pulse output, low value zero, high value 10V (10Vpp, 5V offset), 3.33% duty cycle, 70 kHz, using Chan 1 out. The generator is driving a 50 ohm load, so one should see a 0-5V pulse.

The first waveform triggers when output is enable. There are a bunch of glitches, and note the amplitude of 2.5V (equal to the expected offset value into 50 ohms).

The second shows the same over a long time scale, showing that the output looks like the DC offset of 2.5V for almost 70 ms (!) before the signal kicks in.

The third waveform is just the signal.

John


As an aside, I think it is evidence that the dc offset is produced separately from the signal output.

John

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: billfernandez on February 09, 2016, 04:36:06 pm
On the Siglent SDG1000 and SDG800 thread user Deni mentioned that if you have both channels running, and make a frequency change on one channel, then a glitch appears on the other channel:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-sdg1000-and-sdg800-thread/msg843225/#msg843225 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-sdg1000-and-sdg800-thread/msg843225/#msg843225)

User Paul explained an easy way to show this:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-sdg1000-and-sdg800-thread/msg848349/#msg848349 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-sdg1000-and-sdg800-thread/msg848349/#msg848349)

I wondered if the SDG2042X had the same behavior (issue, bug, anomaly...) and it does!  Here's how to see it:
o Make channel A emit a 1Hz sinewave.
o Make channel B emit a 2Hz sinewave.
o Select the microhertz digit on the channel B frequency setting.
o Turn the knob 1 detent.
o The signals on both channels will immediately dive towards zero, emit two small sawtooth waves, then restart their sinewaves.

The first screenshot below shows the initial 1 and 2Hz sinewaves.

The second screenshot shows the glitch.

The third screenshot shows that if the two waveforms are 180 out of phase, then you do the glitch, they restart 180 degrees out of phase.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Performa01 on February 09, 2016, 11:20:06 pm
o Yes there's a sync connector on the back.  Sync only works up to 1MHz (which seems really low to me).

Ouch! 1MHz isn't great indeed.
Does that mean the sync output is a train of 1µs pulses instead of a squarewave?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: billfernandez on February 10, 2016, 01:35:53 pm
o Yes there's a sync connector on the back.  Sync only works up to 1MHz (which seems really low to me).

Ouch! 1MHz isn't great indeed.
Does that mean the sync output is a train of 1µs pulses instead of a squarewave?

It is a 1.5V, positive-going pulse, with a fixed pulsewidth of 500nS.  (so when the channel output gets up to 1MHz the sync signal is a squarewave.)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: uncle_bob on February 10, 2016, 11:44:45 pm
o Yes there's a sync connector on the back.  Sync only works up to 1MHz (which seems really low to me).

Ouch! 1MHz isn't great indeed.
Does that mean the sync output is a train of 1µs pulses instead of a squarewave?

It is a 1.5V, positive-going pulse, with a fixed pulsewidth of 500nS.  (so when the channel output gets up to 1MHz the sync signal is a squarewave.)

Hi

Looking at it another way:

The sync comes out every thousand or so output samples. It comes out every hundred or so sine waves at max frequency. It may be an output from a MCU ( = jitter) or it could be from an FPGA ( = not real flexible). It is doubtful that they put in a dedicated sync channel with it's own giga sample sort of speeds just for the sync.

Yes, 10 or 20 MHz still seems like something you could easily do, even with those constraints.

Bob
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: markone on February 11, 2016, 12:07:37 am
It is a 1.5V, positive-going pulse, with a fixed pulsewidth of 500nS.  (so when the channel output gets up to 1MHz the sync signal is a squarewave.)

Not in my case, amplitude is correct (0-5V) and with sweep function i get a 50% duty cycle square wave synced to  sweep ramp, see attachment.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: billfernandez on February 11, 2016, 05:20:50 am
It is a 1.5V, positive-going pulse, with a fixed pulsewidth of 500nS.  (so when the channel output gets up to 1MHz the sync signal is a squarewave.)

Not in my case, amplitude is correct (0-5V) and with sweep function i get a 50% duty cycle square wave synced to  sweep ramp, see attachment.

Sorry, I had a 50Ohm terminator on the scope input I used to view the sync waveform. 
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Siglent America on February 13, 2016, 07:03:05 am
Here is a video on generating a 4-phase signal using two SDG2000X generators:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vw1WLc0Pzjg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vw1WLc0Pzjg)

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: uncle_bob on February 13, 2016, 10:21:32 am
Here is a video on generating a 4-phase signal using two SDG2000X generators:


Hi

Nice demo !!

Ok, you have a sync out on the top generator and a trigger in on the bottom generator. I assume that there is a delay on the sync out and a delay on the trigger in as well. Not a big deal at 60 Hz. It likely would be a big deal if you did this same thing at 1 MHz.

So, what is the recommended method of taking care of the delay? One approach would be to trigger both generators off of a third. That seems a bit equipment intensive. I'm guessing there is another way to do this. Ideally it would not involve measuring and calibrating the phase on the second set of signals.

Thanks!

Bob

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: nctnico on February 13, 2016, 11:00:54 am
60Hz isn't very demanding but I doubt you'll be able to do the same at 100kHz with these generators.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: neslekkim on February 13, 2016, 10:31:42 pm
"Seems that the frequency counter leaks a 10 MHz signal to it's input."

We did identify a cross-talk issue that is causing this leakage to the frequency counter port. The factory tells me they are working on the problem.

Thanks for your comments.

Any information about fix for this?, I would assume this is an hardware issue and thus will only be fixed on newer units?
From which serialnumbers will this be fixed?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: uncle_bob on February 14, 2016, 02:04:22 am
"Seems that the frequency counter leaks a 10 MHz signal to it's input."

We did identify a cross-talk issue that is causing this leakage to the frequency counter port. The factory tells me they are working on the problem.

Thanks for your comments.

Any information about fix for this?, I would assume this is an hardware issue and thus will only be fixed on newer units?
From which serialnumbers will this be fixed?


Hi

Equally on the same topic:

Assuming it is a hardware fix (it's the ribbon cable from the back panel ... ) what happens with in warranty existing generators? Will they be updated / upgraded / fixed?

Yes, it is a bit early to start digging into this. Right now, it might not matter to most. To the few who might be about to cancel an order for one, it could matter quite a bit :)

Bob
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: alank2 on February 14, 2016, 03:20:28 am
I may be totally wrong in this, but a great deal of frequency counters are so sensitive that any strong signal around them will be enough to cause it to count.  Do we know that the 10M signal is indeed leaking into the counter input?  Or is the counter just sensitive and 10M is the strongest signal around?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: uncle_bob on February 14, 2016, 03:24:08 am
I may be totally wrong in this, but a great deal of frequency counters are so sensitive that any strong signal around them will be enough to cause it to count.  Do we know that the 10M signal is indeed leaking into the counter input?  Or is the counter just sensitive and 10M is the strongest signal around?

Hi

There are spectrum analyzer plots running around here showing the leakage. It's at a high enough level that it will mess up counting a 10 MHz signal. It also would give you a neat spur on the generator output.

Bob
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: alank2 on February 14, 2016, 03:25:55 am
There are spectrum analyzer plots running around here showing the leakage. It's at a high enough level that it will mess up counting a 10 MHz signal. It also would give you a neat spur on the generator output.

That answers it all right!
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Macman on February 15, 2016, 08:27:43 am
The fan in my unit started making a slight annoying buzzing noise, so I opened it up to see if I could manipulate the fan to get rid of the noise (which I was able to).

While I had it open I noticed it had the Siglent signature rust on the edges of some of the metalwork. It was only slight and am sure it won't be a problem but does show poor attention to detail.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: uncle_bob on February 15, 2016, 08:34:43 am
The fan in my unit started making a slight annoying buzzing noise, so I opened it up to see if I could manipulate the fan to get rid of the noise (which I was able to).

While I had it open I noticed it had the Siglent signature rust on the edges of some of the metalwork. It was only slight and am sure it won't be a problem but does show poor attention to detail.

Hi

Swipe it down with some silicone grease and move on ...

(yes it is a bit tacky in a brand new instrument)

Bob
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Break42 on February 15, 2016, 08:29:29 pm
Synchronization between CH1 and CH2 in sweep mode

Hi folks,

just a bit another point. I have on the CH1 sweep between 10.4Mhz and 11.0Mhz, middle 10.7MHz. Sweep time 300ms. On the CH2 I would like to get a markes (short pulses) at 10.4, 10.7 and 11.0 MHz (that is 0%, 50% and 100% of the 300ms sweep time). My question: How to get these synchronus pulses on the CH2?

Regards
Break
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: nugglix on February 15, 2016, 08:54:15 pm
That's simple: you don't.       :-/O

If you need to sync, make the channel emit something at the right moment.
Might be a 150ms pulse every 300ms, that's as close you can get.

Cheers
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Break42 on February 16, 2016, 12:19:03 am
Synchronization between CH1 and CH2 in sweep mode

Thanks nugglix, I will check how can I manage this today evening.

Anyway I think that such feature ("Synchronize a channel with other sweep channel") would be very helpful for HF development.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: uncle_bob on February 16, 2016, 12:55:29 am
Synchronization between CH1 and CH2 in sweep mode

Thanks nugglix, I will check how can I manage this today evening.

Anyway I think that such feature ("Synchronize a channel with other sweep channel") would be very helpful for HF development.

Hi

This is sort of why people set up computer driven auto-test systems. The needs of this or that test regime get complicated quickly. If you are testing billions of cell phones ... somebody will make a all in one test set. For the rest of us, that's not going to happen. each of our unique needs does not represent a big enough market. So ... off to the computer and write up some code. Let the computer tell each instrument what to do and when to do it. That's been part of my life for 40+ years. These days with even the "affordable stuff" showing up with standard control ports, it's a lot easier than it was in the 1870's ... errr ... 1970's when I started.

Bob
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: markone on February 16, 2016, 11:30:34 am
Synchronization between CH1 and CH2 in sweep mode

Thanks nugglix, I will check how can I manage this today evening.

Anyway I think that such feature ("Synchronize a channel with other sweep channel") would be very helpful for HF development.

I'm too playing with sweep function to build a sort of scalar network analyzer and i'm facing a phase problem between the two output channels, for instance if i program the device in the following mode :

CH1 : SWEEPed Sine Waveform 1Mhz to 120Mhz, SWEEP Time 16ms, Trig Out ON
CH2 : PULSE function, PERIOD 4MS (16/4), PULSE Width 200us, Delay 0

at first seems to works ok with a pulse every sweep's quarter in perfect phase, bu if i look closer i can see that channel two position slowly drift back, let's say 8ns every 20 seconds, while the generator trigger out signal is luckily "locked" to the sweep "ramp" with a fixed offset of about 500nS.

If you turn off then on the sweeped channel the moving phase offset will be reset but restarts soon to drift again.

Some screens in attachment to explain the matter. 
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: uncle_bob on February 16, 2016, 11:56:25 am


at first seems to works ok with a pulse every sweep's quarter in perfect phase, bu if i look closer i can see that channel two position slowly drift back, let's say 8ns every 20 seconds, while the generator trigger out signal is luckily "locked" to the sweep "ramp" with a fixed offset of about 500nS.

Hi

Ok, let's take a step back and ask the question backwards:

If I wanted to have it drift 8 ns / 20 seconds how could I force it to do that? On a 1 GS/s device, 1 ns is one sample in a second. 20 ns in 20 seconds = I'm dropping one sample each second. If I'm below a sample per second ... that's either dropping samples every couple of seconds or it is something else. I'd bet on "something else".

The generator has a time base in it. It is software corrected for frequency offset. That calculation likely drives some math in the DDS that gives you exactly this or that frequency. The arbitrary wave side of the generator's brain knows that 1 billion samples must each go out on a specific clock edge, no drops, no adds no goofs. The two approaches will eventually collide with each other. If the trigger pulse lives in the "arbitrary waveform" side of the brain and the sine wave sweep lives in the "corrected" side .... you get what you see.

I have *absolutely* no clue if that is even close. The only way I can think to test it would be to somehow zero the calibration coefficients. I'm equally clueless to how that might be done.

Bob
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: markone on February 16, 2016, 12:44:11 pm
Ok, let's take a step back and ask the question backwards:

If I wanted to have it drift 8 ns / 20 seconds how could I force it to do that? On a 1 GS/s device, 1 ns is one sample in a second. 20 ns in 20 seconds = I'm dropping one sample each second. If I'm below a sample per second ... that's either dropping samples every couple of seconds or it is something else. I'd bet on "something else".

The generator has a time base in it. It is software corrected for frequency offset. That calculation likely drives some math in the DDS that gives you exactly this or that frequency. The arbitrary wave side of the generator's brain knows that 1 billion samples must each go out on a specific clock edge, no drops, no adds no goofs. The two approaches will eventually collide with each other. If the trigger pulse lives in the "arbitrary waveform" side of the brain and the sine wave sweep lives in the "corrected" side .... you get what you see.

I have *absolutely* no clue if that is even close. The only way I can think to test it would be to somehow zero the calibration coefficients. I'm equally clueless to how that might be done.

Bob

The answer is yes : if i purposely set a "not in ratio" period for the pulse function,  like 4.000001ms with  sweep time = 12ms  (so one sweep time quarter plus 1ns), i can see the two channels drift away as expected.

Notice that the previously reported drift ratio is from a quick & dirty estimation, let's say that is this scale order, i observed it for some minutes, it's not fine smooth but it step's sharply, i could expect also that it has some periodic characteristic, like coming back to zero at some point and restart to drift in fixed cycle.

Another thing that i noticed, that could be usefull to understand how the generator works, is that the sweep function does not have a fixed phase, the signal restart with a different angle every sweep, so you cannot rely on averaged acquisition for the produced sweeped signal.
Days ago i gave up with the second channel pulse time reference,  that was intended to trigger a sampling system placed on the output of an logarithmic amplitude detector, and i'm working only with the generator trigger out signal that so far seemed reliable.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: uncle_bob on February 16, 2016, 01:02:51 pm

The answer is yes : if i purposely set a "not in ratio" period for the pulse function,  like 4.000001ms with  sweep time = 12ms  (so one sweep time quarter plus 1ns), i can see the two channels see drift away as expected.



Hi

So indeed you have a math function that can demonstrate the same sort of behavior. With finite precision math a discrete hop is not un-expected. I also believe that the giga sample end of the generator is driven from some sort of interpolator off of a 250 mega sample base. That would also give you 4 rather than 1 ns steps. If the base is lower still 125 MHz (as it very likely is under some conditions ) we are right back at your original 8 nanoseconds.

Bob
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: markone on February 16, 2016, 01:21:37 pm
That would also give you 4 rather than 1 ns steps. If the base is lower still 125 MHz (as it very likely is under some conditions ) we are right back at your original 8 nanoseconds.
Bob

Tomorrow i will do some more precise assesment on that, let's say anyway that if the phase error restarts from the very same value with a sweep stop/restart command sequence, as it appears to be, for single shot or short term acquisitions sure it's not a deal breaker.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tsaG on February 16, 2016, 11:28:58 pm
Hi,
Is it possible to output an arbitrary wafevorm signal which I created in National Instruments Multisim?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: uncle_bob on February 17, 2016, 04:49:30 am
That would also give you 4 rather than 1 ns steps. If the base is lower still 125 MHz (as it very likely is under some conditions ) we are right back at your original 8 nanoseconds.
Bob

Tomorrow i will do some more precise assesment on that, let's say anyway that if the phase error restarts from the very same value with a sweep stop/restart command sequence, as it appears to be, for single shot or short term acquisitions sure it's not a deal breaker.

Hi

Let us know what you find !!

Bob
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: markone on February 17, 2016, 05:22:09 am
Let us know what you find !!

Bob

Well, my yesterday's estimation was way off ... ::)  actually we have a drift rate of about 2.14ns/s, measure also along 1 hour period, in the form of one 21.4ns sharp drift step every ten second.
The generator trigger output rising edge is always 535ns ahead the actual sweep start, regardelss the sweep settings.

The generator was always set for :

CH1 : SWEEPed Sine Waveform 1Mhz to 120Mhz, SWEEP Time 16ms, Trig Out ON
CH2 : PULSE function, PERIOD 4MS (16/4), PULSE Width 200us, Delay 0
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: uncle_bob on February 17, 2016, 10:12:51 am
Let us know what you find !!

Bob

Well, my yesterday's estimation was way off ... ::)  actually we have a drift rate of about 2.14ns/s, measure also along 1 hour period, in the form of one 21.4ns sharp drift step every ten second.
The generator trigger output rising edge is always 535ns ahead the actual sweep start, regardelss the sweep settings.

The generator was always set for :

CH1 : SWEEPed Sine Waveform 1Mhz to 120Mhz, SWEEP Time 16ms, Trig Out ON
CH2 : PULSE function, PERIOD 4MS (16/4), PULSE Width 200us, Delay 0

Hi

Another fine set of theories blown away by real data :)

21.4 ns is a really weird number. It's roughly 46.7 MHz. That does not fit into *any* clock scheme I know of in the generator.

So off to a whole new theory ...

These guys play games with DDS stuff to get a better signal than they could otherwise. The DDS process generally has some sort of phase accumulator. For a sweep, you are constantly messing with that accumulator. I'd bet that you do some rounding in the process. The theory of the day: They sum up the round off error with a good level of accuracy. They put it in every 10 seconds. They got the sign on the number backwards ....

Bob (the guy who hasn't blown a simple math problem for ... errr ... hours).
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: markone on February 17, 2016, 12:53:58 pm
They sum up the round off error with a good level of accuracy. They put it in every 10 seconds. They got the sign on the number backwards ....

A similar trick during fast sweeps does not make a lot of sense, i guess we are watching to a phase error accumulation / compensation from a PLL mechanism implemented inside the FPG, from which are derived the two channels master clocks.

I saw something similar in a erroneously implemented PLL, again inside a FPGA, that had the task to lock some ADCs data samples batches to power line cycle, so IMHO my bet is on that  :)   
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tsaG on February 18, 2016, 08:24:58 pm
Hi,

I have a problem using the arbitrary function of this generator.

I created a waveform using the EasyWave software.

New -> ticked the SDG2000X box, set it to 8000 samples and 100Hz Frequency

I created this [1] Waveform and uploaded it to the generator. On picture [2] you can see the waveform on the oscilloscope. The odd thing is, that the oscilloscope picture looks exactly like the preview picture on the signal gen! Somehow it doesnt transfer or load the waveform correctly... Or did I do something wrong?

Im using Easywave 1.1.34. The Siglent is connected over Ethernet.

EDIT: I created a Sine wave in easywave, imported it into my signal gen which looks like [3]. Normally it should be +-7V. :-//

EDIT2: A readback of the Sine wave outputs the exact wave of the oscilloscope (and preview on the screen of the siglent) in easywave (see readback screenshot)

EDIT3: It doesnt work as well if I connect the Siglent using USB but it works like a charm if I import the csv file from easywave into the Signal gen. with a USB stick. So it looks like there is something wrong with the easywave transfer (?)

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: CustomEngineerer on February 20, 2016, 06:39:23 pm
tsaG

I had the same issue when I first tried the EasyWave software. I tried sending a file named wave1 to channel 1. I tried to create another file, also named it wave1 and sent it to channel 1. The best I could tell it looked like it was combining the files to make 1 waveform, and just kept adding to it. I was about to give up on the EasyWave software since I didn't really need it at the time, but the next day I decided to try 1 more time. This time I used different names for each waveform file, and sent some to channel 2 and others to channel 1 and it worked like expected every time. I'm not really sure what caused it to start working correctly, but it has ever since. Now whenever I send a waveform to either channel, it always overwrites whatever is already on that channel, and displays exactly what it is supposed to.

Maybe try rebooting your generator, and trying different names for your waveform files (not suggesting you weren't doing this).
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Salas on February 21, 2016, 09:08:42 pm
The fan in my unit started making a slight annoying buzzing noise, so I opened it up to see if I could manipulate the fan to get rid of the noise (which I was able to).

While I had it open I noticed it had the Siglent signature rust on the edges of some of the metalwork. It was only slight and am sure it won't be a problem but does show poor attention to detail.

Its not a bad quality fan but there could be less air cooling circulation noise in this generator (which mainly comes from the box working like a speaker cabinet)

I don't know if it is calculated for worse case scenario when installed in a rack as it is, but for home lab use maybe a Sunon fan (HA60251V4-999 looks good) with some 3V drop resistor inline could suffice for safe cooling and about half the final audibility. Maybe Siglent can advise us here about which is the max CPU sink's temperature for long term reliability?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: uncle_bob on February 22, 2016, 12:06:17 am
The fan in my unit started making a slight annoying buzzing noise, so I opened it up to see if I could manipulate the fan to get rid of the noise (which I was able to).

While I had it open I noticed it had the Siglent signature rust on the edges of some of the metalwork. It was only slight and am sure it won't be a problem but does show poor attention to detail.

Its not a bad quality fan but there could be less air cooling circulation noise in this generator (which mainly comes from the box working like a speaker cabinet)

I don't know if it is calculated for worse case scenario when installed in a rack as it is, but for home lab use maybe a Sunon fan (HA60251V4-999 looks good) with some 3V drop resistor inline could suffice for safe cooling and about half the final audibility. Maybe Siglent can advise us here about which is the max CPU sink's temperature for long term reliability?

Hi

I'd bet the fan was picked on the basis of "this is what we stock for the other 20 instruments". Purchasing guys love that approach. The stock room guys love it as well.

If the heatsink is below 50C, it's a good bet that all is well. If it''s above 70C things may be ok, but life of the device is not what it might be. If it's over 90C, you need more air. All based on the "most chips / most places  / most ratings / most likely" guess. 


Bob
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: markone on February 22, 2016, 01:01:51 am
The fan in my unit started making a slight annoying buzzing noise, so I opened it up to see if I could manipulate the fan to get rid of the noise (which I was able to).

While I had it open I noticed it had the Siglent signature rust on the edges of some of the metalwork. It was only slight and am sure it won't be a problem but does show poor attention to detail.

Its not a bad quality fan but there could be less air cooling circulation noise in this generator (which mainly comes from the box working like a speaker cabinet)

I don't know if it is calculated for worse case scenario when installed in a rack as it is, but for home lab use maybe a Sunon fan (HA60251V4-999 looks good) with some 3V drop resistor inline could suffice for safe cooling and about half the final audibility. Maybe Siglent can advise us here about which is the max CPU sink's temperature for long term reliability?

No (at least not yet) buzzing noise from mine generator's fan, i can hear a moderate air flux sound that maybe is one-tenth of the of DS1074Z's fan noise, so i can say i feel good with it.

What about the warranty sticker placed on the generator box ?
I guess we have to cut it to get access to instrument's fan and does not seem a smart move.

Anyway, talking about DC fans, i feel we have a very high unit to unit performance/quality variance, ie my original GW Instek scope's ADDA fan (60x60x25 too) is a piece of cra@p, dunno if  it's a fake device or actually ADDA make crap, i wonder why GW Instek uses this crap for its instruments, i swapped it with a 60x60x15 Sunon Maglev with surprisingly better result for 4 Euro 1 Pz street price.

GW Instek also made a mechanical design mistake putting the fan intake side too close to circuit metal shielding case (8-9mm) simply suffocating it, indeed the slimmer version i used leaves 5mm more air space and works waaay better.

Here Siglent seems to have done a much better job, at least with mine 2042X.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: markone on February 22, 2016, 01:19:50 am
I'd bet the fan was picked on the basis of "this is what we stock for the other 20 instruments". Purchasing guys love that approach. The stock room guys love it as well.

I think the very same thing, and they are not alone.

Anyway it's a decent solution and looking at where the fan is placed in respect to CPU, its temps should lay on the low side, conversely the PSU is probably working with lower temp's margin.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: uncle_bob on February 22, 2016, 01:33:36 am
Hi

There are an enormous number of fans out there. If you can get close to anything that gets used on a normal PC case ... dirt cheap is a typical price.

My preference would always be for a fan that does not need a dropping resistor. Dirt / dust / wear / crud tend to make the poor little motors start harder as time goes by. They actually put "stuff" in some to give it a startup boost and then cut back after it's running. A dropping resistor can degrade that performance. How common "chips in fans" are for non tach readout fans ... no idea.

Bob
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Salas on February 22, 2016, 03:22:34 am
I find the 2042X fan and wind noise constantly noticeable and distracting in a quiet room when standing at 1m near. My DS2072 scope with a quieter medium quality Scythe fan emits 1/3 the generator's noise subjectively. The gen sounds more like the original 2072 noise level albeit with a bit less annoying lower pitch hum.

That Sunon Maglev is two wire like the stock 2042X fan and has significantly less nominal noise (13.8dBA vs 26dBA), still good CFM (13.8 or 0.391m3/min), while having a 60000 hours life spec @ 40C. I proposed using it at 9V via a 100 Ohm resistor because there is noise augmentation by the box so using it at its max will probably not bring as a drastic cut in sound level as expected by its dB spec. Voltage range is 4.5 ~ 13.8VDC so no problem starting at 9V. That Sunon can be found for about 5 Euro before shipment. Digikey 259-1618-ND. Typically best PC industry silent fans like Noiseblocker or Noctua will be much dearer.

About the sticker, maybe Siglent will be kind enough to let us know here if it will be safe we change the fan for the above spec without warranty loss
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: markone on February 22, 2016, 03:29:00 am
My preference would always be for a fan that does not need a dropping resistor.

I agree and there is an additional reason to drive at full power the above mentioned Sunon HA60251V4-999, its static air pressure is already quite low, 0.04 inch-H2O / 1.02 mm-H2O and the fan is quite close to case exhaust holes pattern.

Anyway i would check PSU critical parts temp before to cut down case internal airflow.

Has anyone succeded in reading original fan's brand & P/N ?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Salas on February 22, 2016, 03:37:08 am
PAAD16025SL 0.15A 12VDC. Visible in Dave's video. The question is does the gen need a really strong airflow in home lab use? Or is it just a cautionary measure.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: markone on February 22, 2016, 03:46:32 am
My DS2072 scope with a quieter medium quality Scythe fan emits 1/3 the generator's noise subjectively. The gen sounds more like the original 2072 noise level albeit with a bit less annoying lower pitch hum.

Is it a Scythe Mini Kaze 60mm ?

I tried one inside mine GW-Instek SDS2072E in place of its shamefull ADDA, it's a fair device but i found Sunon Maglev even better also @ lower price.

In my case a lower depth fan (15mm instead of 20mm) worked a lot better for the reasons explained in a previous post, but that's not the case for the 2042X, where the fan is well placed inside the case box.

I'm quite picky about noise but i find my 2042X not boring at all, it's hugely less noiser than my DS1074Z, dunno how is the original DS2072.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Salas on February 22, 2016, 03:52:37 am
Yes its the Mini Kaze 60mm as advised in a video and it worked very well for noise reduction but your Sunon slimmer solution seems even better as you described. So with your alike experience you can get the picture when I say that my 2042X is three times more audible than the DS2072 with the Mini Kaze.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: uncle_bob on February 22, 2016, 04:01:37 am
PAAD16025SL 0.15A 12VDC. Visible in Dave's video. The question is does the gen need a really strong airflow in home lab use? Or is it just a cautionary measure.

Hi

Back in the "old days" an instrument was expected to survive some number of hours sitting in a fairly tight cardboard box and doing it's normal operations. It always looked a bit odd to see the boxes on a bench with the cables coming out of them.

Indeed this could have been specific to certain west coast US instrument outfits. I saw several of them doing it. It may be something that nobody does anymore with today's tightly packed gear.

Bob
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: markone on February 22, 2016, 04:12:36 am
PAAD16025SL 0.15A 12VDC. Visible in Dave's video. The question is does the gen need a really strong airflow in home lab use? Or is it just a cautionary measure.

ok, just checked through 2042x's case holes, the few P/N letters that i can spot confirm this FAN model also for my generator.

If i put my hand nearby the fan exhaust i do not feel a strong airflow, i will define it as "normal" air flow and considering the PAAD16025SL static air pressure of 4mmH2O (from http://www.aavid.com/products/thermal-fans/paad16025sl-pf00 (http://www.aavid.com/products/thermal-fans/paad16025sl-pf00)) a device like the Sunon HA60251V4-999 with its mere 1mmH2O will be a steep weakening.

Anyway i'm hearing only airflow noise and no fan's motor/bearing vibrations.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Salas on February 22, 2016, 04:15:48 am
PAAD16025SL 0.15A 12VDC. Visible in Dave's video. The question is does the gen need a really strong airflow in home lab use? Or is it just a cautionary measure.

Hi

Back in the "old days" an instrument was expected to survive some number of hours sitting in a fairly tight cardboard box and doing it's normal operations. It always looked a bit odd to see the boxes on a bench with the cables coming out of them.

Indeed this could have been specific to certain west coast US instrument outfits. I saw several of them doing it. It may be something that nobody does anymore with today's tightly packed gear.

Bob

Hi

This gen is roomy inside for unoccupied space and I didn't see any particularly suspect for high dissipation components in the tear down video, maybe it could survive without a fan at all in winter time and a moderate breeze could keep it safe all around the year with medium use but not comfortable about trusting my hunch, better we had some numbers about the CPU's sink temp max allowed for long term reliability at least.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Salas on February 22, 2016, 04:24:24 am
PAAD16025SL 0.15A 12VDC. Visible in Dave's video. The question is does the gen need a really strong airflow in home lab use? Or is it just a cautionary measure.

ok, just checked through 2042x's case holes, the few P/N letters that i can spot confirm this FAN model also for my generator.

If i put my hand nearby the fan exhaust i do not feel a strong airflow, i will define it as "normal" air flow and considering the PAAD16025SL static air pressure of 4mmH2O (from http://www.aavid.com/products/thermal-fans/paad16025sl-pf00 (http://www.aavid.com/products/thermal-fans/paad16025sl-pf00)) a device like the Sunon HA60251V4-999 with its mere 1mmH2O will be a steep weakening.

Anyway i'm hearing only airflow noise and no fan's motor/bearing vibrations.

Although near in CFM there is a pressure spec difference indeed. Maybe measuring the temp on that exit after an hour with both channels working will be an indication of how far less we can go.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: markone on February 22, 2016, 05:09:39 am
Although near in CFM there is a pressure spec difference indeed. Maybe measuring the temp on that exit after an hour with both channels working will be an indication of how far less we can go.

I have about 21W / 34VA of inlet power @ 230V with both channels set to 10Mhz & 10Vpp sine wave, for what is worth the  exhaust air is at 29°C while room temp is 21°C, IMHO not a good indicator if it is taken as a unique factor. 
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Salas on February 22, 2016, 05:14:54 am
The fan in my unit started making a slight annoying buzzing noise, so I opened it up to see if I could manipulate the fan to get rid of the noise (which I was able to).

While I had it open I noticed it had the Siglent signature rust on the edges of some of the metalwork. It was only slight and am sure it won't be a problem but does show poor attention to detail.

Its not a bad quality fan but there could be less air cooling circulation noise in this generator (which mainly comes from the box working like a speaker cabinet)

I don't know if it is calculated for worse case scenario when installed in a rack as it is, but for home lab use maybe a Sunon fan (HA60251V4-999 looks good) with some 3V drop resistor inline could suffice for safe cooling and about half the final audibility. Maybe Siglent can advise us here about which is the max CPU sink's temperature for long term reliability?

Hi

I'd bet the fan was picked on the basis of "this is what we stock for the other 20 instruments". Purchasing guys love that approach. The stock room guys love it as well.

If the heatsink is below 50C, it's a good bet that all is well. If it''s above 70C things may be ok, but life of the device is not what it might be. If it's over 90C, you need more air. All based on the "most chips / most places  / most ratings / most likely" guess. 


Bob

You have a most reasonable approach. If we will not have an official answer about temps, keeping the CPU sink between 50C - 55C would be a good rule of thumb for the sticker braking noise haters among us.  :-+
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Salas on February 22, 2016, 05:20:26 am
Although near in CFM there is a pressure spec difference indeed. Maybe measuring the temp on that exit after an hour with both channels working will be an indication of how far less we can go.

I have about 21W / 34VA of inlet power @ 230V with both channels set to 10Mhz & 10Vpp sine wave, for what is worth the  exhaust air is at 29°C while room temp is 21°C, IMHO not a good indicator if it is taken as a unique factor.

Hmm... 8C above room ambient. Say you will not do lab work in a non air conditioned room above 28C and we go to 36C airflow exit temp. They would normally design for no more than 45C in-box ambient. It takes to probe on the CPU sink when testing a lower air flow so to be thorough.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Macman on February 22, 2016, 06:15:18 am
The warranty sticker can be removed in the same way as is done with the Rigol stickers. I unstuck one side and bent it over and taped a piece of label backing over it so it could be reattach if needed. If you decide to detach the sticker don't rush it, mine was stuck quite well and took about 20 minutes of gentle persuasion.
The fan noise in mine is now quite acceptable to me and is just the air flow noise. I took it apart to sort out a buzzing noise that the fan started making.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: markone on February 22, 2016, 07:12:44 am
Hmm... 8C above room ambient. Say you will not do lab work in a non air conditioned room above 28C and we go to 36C airflow exit temp. They would normally design for no more than 45C in-box ambient. It takes to probe on the CPU sink when testing a lower air flow so to be thorough.

This room can easily reach 35°C Tamb in summer time without air conditioning, as actually did last year.

Anyway i would be more concerned for PSU and output stages than CPU device, actually it sits well served nearby the fan.

My ridiculously noisy old glory DS1022CD's (first series with 50mm fan) PSU reached gorgeus temp in some points (first place the 3.3V line's LM317 heatsink, well over 75 °C) while the exit air temp was absolutely not worrying, just because the case thermal design was completely wrong and the fan was not gathering air from right places.

A brutal FAN mod (see picture) reduced dramatically both noise & temp to an extent hard to believe, of course out of warranty time.

Recently i swapped the first 80mm fan with a "dimmed" ARCTIC F8 with even better result, i can ear only a smooth air sound.     

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=202931;image)

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: markone on February 22, 2016, 07:25:59 am
... but your Sunon slimmer solution seems even better as you described.

yes, but only in that peculiar situation (metal shielding very close to fan intake), otherwise deeper fan are always better.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Salas on February 22, 2016, 07:41:23 am
Hmm... 8C above room ambient. Say you will not do lab work in a non air conditioned room above 28C and we go to 36C airflow exit temp. They would normally design for no more than 45C in-box ambient. It takes to probe on the CPU sink when testing a lower air flow so to be thorough.

This room can easily reach 35°C Tamb in summer time without air conditioning, as actually did last year.

Anyway i would be more concerned for PSU and output stages than CPU device, actually it sits well served nearby the fan.

My ridiculously noisy old glory DS1022CD's (first series with 50mm fan) PSU reached gorgeus temp in some points (first place the 3.3V line's LM317 heatsink, well over 75 °C) while the exit air temp was absolutely not worrying, just because the case thermal design was completely wrong and the fan was not gathering air from right places.

A brutal FAN mod (see picture) reduced dramatically both noise & temp to an extent hard to believe, of course out of warranty time.

Recently i swapped the first 80mm fan with a "dimmed" ARCTIC F8 with even better result, i can ear only a smooth air sound.     

Same Arctic fan that I have used in my Korad PSU. Although much better than stock for normal operational noise, that PSU has an idle RPM choppy pulse drive that makes it sound like a coffee grinder with suicidal tendencies when no more than 100mA current is drawn to a load so to rev it up a little. I had used a Gelid in my older DS1052E (100MHZ mod). That one was an unbearable screamer to me, had to do something about it... I basically have to change a fan every time I buy an instrument. This is becoming ridiculous. Only my Siglent PSU was nice out of the box. I wonder if all the manufacturers will ever grow up and understand that poor noise design is detrimental to a brand's quality ranking? Many times its not only the fan itself but its the positioning and the flow. Rohde & Schwarz did it right in their small scope. Better they follow them. If they even manage 50% worse than R&D they will be successful enough.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: markone on February 22, 2016, 09:10:01 am
Same Arctic fan that I have used in my Korad PSU. Although much better than stock for normal operational noise, that PSU has an idle RPM choppy pulse drive that makes it sound like a coffee grinder with suicidal tendencies when no more than 100mA current is drawn to a load so to rev it up a little. I had used a Gelid in my older DS1052E (100MHZ mod). That one was an unbearable screamer to me, had to do something about it... I basically have to change a fan every time I buy an instrument. This is becoming ridiculous. Only my Siglent PSU was nice out of the box. I wonder if all the manufacturers will ever grow up and understand that poor noise design is detrimental to a brand's quality ranking? Many times its not only the fan itself but its the positioning and the flow. Rohde & Schwarz did it right in their small scope. Better they follow them. If they even manage 50% worse than R&D they will be successful enough.

I agree with everything you say, my last instrument purchase, the SDS2072E, can only further confirm all this complaining with its piece of cr@p fan, pathetically placed in a questionable overall thermal design, that provides lot of boring noise for ridiculously small air flow in a very limited case section.

Adding this to the weirdest feeling knob encoders ever seen in a scope (come on GW), a lot worse than my ATTEN ADS1102CAL's ones, leads me to think that in this brand some design compartments are missing their targets, while other are working very good, creating the harsh contrast between good performances and so so build quality details here and there.

This Siglent generator seems a fair device, but i still have to see the rust inside ;)

Next time someone put his hands inside, please consider to take some pictures to nasty details ...
PS :dunno what version of Korad PSU are you playing with, time ago i considered them but after some youtube watching they seemed to be quite a crapfest, am i wrong ?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Salas on February 22, 2016, 12:56:57 pm
Its the 3A version of the small single output one that Dave had burned and they revised it to good. Mine is Tenma branded. Crap for general criteria construction quality but fair at the dirt cheap price. They also have a very good intuitive digital user interface and satisfying read out accuracy. The internal loop's speed is no good for high current  pulse or sinewave draw. It will ripple high if you will connect for a power test a class A/B amp drawing a couple of amps at 1kHz I mean. Adept, small, and reliable for general tasks though.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: markone on February 23, 2016, 06:44:27 am
Its the 3A version of the small single output one that Dave had burned and they revised it to good. Mine is Tenma branded. Crap for general criteria construction quality but fair at the dirt cheap price. They also have a very good intuitive digital user interface and satisfying read out accuracy. The internal loop's speed is no good for high current  pulse or sinewave draw. It will ripple high if you will connect for a power test a class A/B amp drawing a couple of amps at 1kHz I mean. Adept, small, and reliable for general tasks though.

Many thanks for the clear explanation, what you describe is exactly what i was fearing to :-)

I cannot forget the ugly R2R DAC inside spotted on Dave's tear down video, it seems from the soviet era, that circuit solution casts doubt on all the rest, to say the least.

I am a little biased toward these things after the HDG2002B purchase's mistake (what a crap !) but i know quite well that at the end of these stories i usually go for a decent device and the initial expense (for the crap) becomes a total loss.

If you keep in account time and materials to clean up the worst and the fact that you never completely trust it,
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Salas on February 23, 2016, 07:50:18 am
Get an Aim-TTi lab PSU if you can push your budget
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: markone on February 23, 2016, 10:56:23 am
Get an Aim-TTi lab PSU if you can push your budget

Aim-TTI PSUs are actually quite expensive,  i was thinking more to something like ISO-TECH IPS-3303D, 300E plus taxes.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: ac122 on February 24, 2016, 12:38:02 pm
"Seems that the frequency counter leaks a 10 MHz signal to it's input."

We did identify a cross-talk issue that is causing this leakage to the frequency counter port. The factory tells me they are working on the problem.

Thanks for your comments.

Any information about fix for this?, I would assume this is an hardware issue and thus will only be fixed on newer units?
From which serialnumbers will this be fixed?


Hi

Equally on the same topic:

Assuming it is a hardware fix (it's the ribbon cable from the back panel ... ) what happens with in warranty existing generators? Will they be updated / upgraded / fixed?

Yes, it is a bit early to start digging into this. Right now, it might not matter to most. To the few who might be about to cancel an order for one, it could matter quite a bit :)

Bob


I was in the process of ordering one in early January and saw this post / issue.
So I have been holding off and waiting for a response / fix.
It seems that this might require more than a software update and would like to hear about the solution.
Obviously my preference is not buying a device with the problem.

So I decided to raise the issue once more for an update.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: dougg on February 25, 2016, 07:58:06 am
After upgrading to 2.01.01.17R5 firmware the problem with the count input injecting (odd) multiples of 10 MHz seems unchanged. For the measurements below I simply treated the count BNC as an output and fed it into my Rigol DS2202 (time domain) and DSA815 (frequency domain). The SDG2042X was set to output a DC waveform with 0 Volts offset. So the count "input" is outputting a 10 MHz square wave with a hell of a lot of ringing, with a Vrms of 44.85 mV. I set the SA to Volts on the y axis (rather than the default dBm). The harmonics drop off above 350 Mhz.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Salas on February 25, 2016, 06:34:51 pm
Get an Aim-TTi lab PSU if you can push your budget

Aim-TTI PSUs are actually quite expensive,  i was thinking more to something like ISO-TECH IPS-3303D, 300E plus taxes.

Looks like a good choice for the money. Its a popular GW Instek theme. The same core motif can be found in the Siglent PSU series.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: markone on February 25, 2016, 06:47:41 pm
Actually the new SPD3303C it's even cheaper, 239 plus taxes, but i did not found yet a tear down.
Let's say that regarding bench PSU i prefer old styled led seven segment readout than more fancy , but also dispersive, TFT panel.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Salas on February 25, 2016, 07:42:07 pm
The Iso-tech looks like having better binding posts as well as sticking to the GW Instek more faithfully for a more direct user interface having two dials and discrete memory buttons.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: mongo on February 26, 2016, 04:15:14 pm
FYI, if any of you have had issues with usbtmc on these units I may have filed a bug report that should be enough for them to fix the issue.  It appears that they are not honoring the 64byte bulk transfer size limit of their usb gadget driver so you have to hit the stack multiple times.  We are "lucky" enough that the ethernet interface provides root level access with zero passwords and they have debugfs mounted.

That noted with this insanely bad security hole open, I would highly recommend never attaching this device to any network. 

That said I am fairly happy with the device and the format for the arb .bin files is pretty easy to work with.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Cervisia on February 29, 2016, 09:25:58 pm
Quote
if any of you have had issues with usbtmc on these units
Are you talking about the Linux driver?

Quote
It appears that they are not honoring the 64byte bulk transfer size limit
This is unlikely; USBTMC transfers happen on a different abstraction level than USB transfers.
Could you please share your bug report?
Title: Sinewave signal quality
Post by: Timpert on March 04, 2016, 03:55:54 am
I was wondering, has anyone actually checked the quality of the sinewave (harmonic distortion, spurious output) beyond the amplitude at which it is specified (0 dBm or 223 mV in 50 Ohms). How does the thing behave when it is cranked up to the max?

Edit: I have to add the word "quantify". Like assess harmonics on a spectrum analyzer.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: mongo on March 04, 2016, 09:33:47 am
While I don't have a  spectrum analyzer the FFT shows no major harmonics on my little agilent dsox2012a.  I am working on an AM radio today pushing 7.1V peak to peak and it is quite happy at low frequencies, I have attached an ugly pic on when I was trying to get it to sync to the built in generator on the dsox2012a, while this is ugly with jitter the yellow line is at 8MHz and pretty much maxed out.


Obviously if you look at this pic you will realize I wasn't too serious about measuring but it is pretty good.  Hopefully someone with better tools will respond but I am quite happy with it.  You should temper that with the understanding that I just replaced a HP 3311A with this device.  I did beak out the HP because I thought that I had forgotten how to do FFT and it was a lot worse.  This unit is as good as I would expect a 16-bit unit to be.  I have been using it as a DC source, mostly because my bigger supplies have loud fans and I can't see anything out of the normal environmental noise on my Keithley 2100 DMM.

Outside of some software issues, which I think they will fix and which do not hurt my use case, the main limiter of this unit is accurate time.  I have been shopping for parts to build a 10 MHz OCXO-based GPS disciplined oscillator but that won't fix the issues with my low end scope unless I am missing an menu some place.

Note above that this was not a serious test, and that I was actually testing the jitter on my dsox2012a.


(http://s22.postimg.org/3spp7v56p/Screen_Shot_2016_03_03_at_2_04_40_PM.png)
Title: Re: Sinewave signal quality
Post by: uncle_bob on March 04, 2016, 11:22:03 am
I was wondering, has anyone actually checked the quality of the sinewave (harmonic distortion, spurious output) beyond the amplitude at which it is specified (0 dBm or 223 mV in 50 Ohms). How does the thing behave when it is cranked up to the max?

Edit: I have to add the word "quantify". Like assess harmonics on a spectrum analyzer.

Hi

Like a lot of signal generators (but not an old style function generator. This guy has a set of attenuators in it. As you crank the level, you can hear the relays going click click click every 6 db or so. Because of that, I doubt there is a lot of difference between 0 dbm and "near max out" sort of levels. It's running over the same (full out to ~ half max voltage) range again and again. The attenuators simply drop things down as you reduce the level.

Bob
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: smgvbest on March 05, 2016, 07:42:13 am
I'm still learning the use of a SA so hopefully I did these correctly
Siglent at 120Mhz, 5vpp max out output

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: markone on March 05, 2016, 08:21:40 am
I'm still learning the use of a SA so hopefully I did these correctly
Siglent at 120Mhz, 5vpp max out output

I would use much lower RBW values, for instance :

- full span sweep (1.5Ghz ?) with 10Khz RBW
- 100 Khz span sweep with 100Hz RBW
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bson on March 05, 2016, 03:25:23 pm
Sitting here with a brand new 2122X on the bench - nice little generator.  Updated it to the latest firmware (#17).

I do have a bit of a firmware dislike... it doesn't remember that it's set to use an external 10MHz reference across power cycles even if set to use the last settings at power on.  Not only does it ignore the external clock, but it merrily outputs its own internal timebase onto the cable and fights with my GPSDO!  Plus the 53131A counter alarms about the timebase being changed, and my VNA doesn't like it.  So I unplug the cable from the 2122X after powering off.  The only problem is I can't set it to use the external reference without plugging the cable in, and when I do the instrument outputs its own clock until I can toggle it using the front panel.  It's also not possible to tell it to use the external reference before plugging it in.

Anyway, my suggestion would be:

1. Remember the setting...
2. Even better, auto-detect on power-up or before enabling the clock output to make sure there isn't already a clock source on the cable and use the external timebase if enabled
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on March 05, 2016, 04:38:18 pm
Sitting here with a brand new 2122X on the bench - nice little generator.  Updated it to the latest firmware (#17).

I do have a bit of a firmware dislike... it doesn't remember that it's set to use an external 10MHz reference across power cycles even if set to use the last settings at power on.  Not only does it ignore the external clock, but it merrily outputs its own internal timebase onto the cable and fights with my GPSDO!  Plus the 53131A counter alarms about the timebase being changed, and my VNA doesn't like it.  So I unplug the cable from the 2122X after powering off.  The only problem is I can't set it to use the external reference without plugging the cable in, and when I do the instrument outputs its own clock until I can toggle it using the front panel.  It's also not possible to tell it to use the external reference before plugging it in.

Anyway, my suggestion would be:

1. Remember the setting...
2. Even better, auto-detect on power-up or before enabling the clock output to make sure there isn't already a clock source on the cable and use the external timebase if enabled

Good ideas, I pass them on to R&D.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: uncle_bob on March 06, 2016, 02:09:07 am
Sitting here with a brand new 2122X on the bench - nice little generator.  Updated it to the latest firmware (#17).

I do have a bit of a firmware dislike... it doesn't remember that it's set to use an external 10MHz reference across power cycles even if set to use the last settings at power on.  Not only does it ignore the external clock, but it merrily outputs its own internal timebase onto the cable and fights with my GPSDO!  Plus the 53131A counter alarms about the timebase being changed, and my VNA doesn't like it.  So I unplug the cable from the 2122X after powering off.  The only problem is I can't set it to use the external reference without plugging the cable in, and when I do the instrument outputs its own clock until I can toggle it using the front panel.  It's also not possible to tell it to use the external reference before plugging it in.

Anyway, my suggestion would be:

1. Remember the setting...
2. Even better, auto-detect on power-up or before enabling the clock output to make sure there isn't already a clock source on the cable and use the external timebase if enabled

Hi

That does make the generator totally useless with an external standard doesn't it?

The default should be "nothing out the back". Just have it sit there waiting to be told what to do if it can't remember what the last state was. An enabled output is a "really bad thing" even or a not external ref in situation. You now have one more spurious signal crawling all over your bench.

Bob
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bson on March 06, 2016, 08:46:51 am
That does make the generator totally useless with an external standard doesn't it?
Actually, it does.  I considered plugging it into a Symmetricom distribution tap, but those are pretty beefy; they won't be harmed by the Siglent, but the Siglent could possibly be damaged if it uses a basic push-pull driver.  If the tap pushes when the Siglent pulls I doubt the tap will too inclined to droop... it'll perhaps just source a few amps into the Siglent during that portion of the phases aligning badly.

Quote
The default should be "nothing out the back". Just have it sit there waiting to be told what to do if it can't remember what the last state was. An enabled output is a "really bad thing" even or a not external ref in situation. You now have one more spurious signal crawling all over your bench.
Agree.  The best would be able to turn it off altogether.  And remember this setting across power cycles. :)  Or if it can't be remembered, default to it shutting off on power cycle so it needs to be explicitly reenabled.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bson on March 06, 2016, 12:57:19 pm
And, just because I could... using a VNA as an SA. :)

2122X set to 24.576132MHz using internal timebase
-20dBm output level
The spec says -55dBc spectral purity at this frequency.  I was skeptical this would truly be relative to the carrier (dBc) and thought they might mean relative to peak output (5Vpp).

Good old VNA set to 100Hz span centered on 24.576135MHz (just the peak the marker found at RBW=10, set to center)
100Hz span
1Hz RBW
40 sec sweep (!!!)
10dB/div V
10Hz/div H

This instrument is not the most agile at such a narrow span and 1Hz RBW... kind of pushing it.
It reports a peak at 24576133.5... My 53131A counter indicates it's 24576132.45Hz, so the VNA is off just a smidgeon over 1 full sweep step.

But... looks like the 2122X handily passes the spec of -55dBc for 20-40MHz.

Didn't grab a shot at RBW 10Hz, but it looks very similar, just tighter and more evenly stepped.

(http://www.rockgarden.net/download/eevblog/2122x_peak.jpg)

EDIT - here's a better one with a 100sec sweep time (4 sweeps averaged); for some reason the 3577A didn't like a 100sec sweep time until it was fully warmed up.  Checking with the marker, -55dBc intersects at 5.5Hz on the high side and 6Hz on the low side.

(http://www.rockgarden.net/download/eevblog/2122x_peak2.jpg)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: uncle_bob on March 06, 2016, 01:04:46 pm
And, just because I could... using a VNA as an SA. :)

2122X set to 24.576132MHz using internal timebase
-20dBm output level
The spec says -55dBc spectral purity at this frequency.  I was skeptical this would truly be relative to the carrier (dBc) and thought they might mean relative to peak output (5Vpp).

Good old VNA set to 100Hz span centered on 24.576135MHz (just the peak the marker found at RBW=10, set to center)
100Hz span
1Hz RBW
40 sec sweep (!!!)
10dB/div V
10Hz/div H

This instrument is not the most agile at such a narrow span and 1Hz RBW... kind of pushing it.
It reports a peak at 24576133.5... My 53131A counter indicates it's 24576132.45Hz, so the VNA is off just a smidgeon over 1 full sweep step.

But... looks like the 2122X handily passes the spec of -55dBc for 20-40MHz.

Didn't grab a shot at RBW 10Hz, but it looks very similar, just tighter and more evenly stepped.

(http://www.rockgarden.net/download/eevblog/2122x_peak.jpg)

Hi

Based on the fact that they have a proper attenuator in the instrument that's not a real surprising outcome. Once you hit the floor of the attenuator (1 mv out if I remember correctly) then indeed your signal to noise in dbc is going to degrade as power drops. Simple answer ... get a couple of 20 db external coaxial pads and use them below 1 mv.

At some point the leakage from a simple box instrument is going to wipe you out on low signal level stuff. A generator that is legit at -127 dbm out has a lot more shielding in it than this guy does. It also costs ... a bit ... more. It's also quite a bit bigger and heavier. Last time I broke one, the repair charge would have bought a skid full of these little guys.

Hint: Relay based attenuators don't like it when you switch power once a second for a month.....

Bob
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bson on March 06, 2016, 01:40:37 pm
Based on the fact that they have a proper attenuator in the instrument that's not a real surprising outcome. Once you hit the floor of the attenuator (1 mv out if I remember correctly) then indeed your signal to noise in dbc is going to degrade as power drops. Simple answer ... get a couple of 20 db external coaxial pads and use them below 1 mv.
Ah, so that's why there's clicking when you change levels...
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: mojoe on March 06, 2016, 06:10:20 pm
Sitting here with a brand new 2122X on the bench - nice little generator.  Updated it to the latest firmware (#17).

I do have a bit of a firmware dislike... it doesn't remember that it's set to use an external 10MHz reference across power cycles even if set to use the last settings at power on.  Not only does it ignore the external clock, but it merrily outputs its own internal timebase onto the cable and fights with my GPSDO!  Plus the 53131A counter alarms about the timebase being changed, and my VNA doesn't like it.  So I unplug the cable from the 2122X after powering off.  The only problem is I can't set it to use the external reference without plugging the cable in, and when I do the instrument outputs its own clock until I can toggle it using the front panel.  It's also not possible to tell it to use the external reference before plugging it in.

Anyway, my suggestion would be:

1. Remember the setting...
2. Even better, auto-detect on power-up or before enabling the clock output to make sure there isn't already a clock source on the cable and use the external timebase if enabled

Good ideas, I pass them on to R&D.

I vote for number 2. That is the way a lot of high dollar gear does it. If there is an external reference plugged in, use it. If not, switch on the internal reference. This is easy and won't damage anything.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bson on March 07, 2016, 09:35:04 am
I vote for number 2. That is the way a lot of high dollar gear does it. If there is an external reference plugged in, use it. If not, switch on the internal reference. This is easy and won't damage anything.
Yeah, #2 is the better choice - more specifically, use the external reference if plugged in otherwise use the internal and don't ever output anything on the port until asked to.

However, this may not be so simple from a firmware perspective; it may not be practical to continuously poll to check if there's an external reference and may require switching the internal clock PLL to it to see if lock can be acquired - which would disrupt ongoing waveform generation.  If this is the case, then I'd be fine with it being done automatically at startup only; recabling the bench and changing out the extref source is fine to require a power cycle or manual reconfig, it's so rare anyway.  In my case, at least.  But in this case there's not much use doing anything automatically - just allow it to be set and remember it.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bson on March 07, 2016, 09:39:53 am
Oh, and also: as a safety precaution, before enabling the output check to see if there's already a signal on the port.  If so, alert to it and refuse to enable the output.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: uncle_bob on March 07, 2016, 11:01:33 am
I vote for number 2. That is the way a lot of high dollar gear does it. If there is an external reference plugged in, use it. If not, switch on the internal reference. This is easy and won't damage anything.
Yeah, #2 is the better choice - more specifically, use the external reference if plugged in otherwise use the internal and don't ever output anything on the port until asked to.

However, this may not be so simple from a firmware perspective; it may not be practical to continuously poll to check if there's an external reference and may require switching the internal clock PLL to it to see if lock can be acquired - which would disrupt ongoing waveform generation.  If this is the case, then I'd be fine with it being done automatically at startup only; recabling the bench and changing out the extref source is fine to require a power cycle or manual reconfig, it's so rare anyway.  In my case, at least.  But in this case there's not much use doing anything automatically - just allow it to be set and remember it.


Hi

The last thing in the world you want is an instrument that randomly switches from internal to external standard based on some guess it is making. The only *safe* way to do it:

1) If it's set to external reference, check for the ref. If it is not there toss up a great big error message and stop.

2) If it's set to internal reference, don't check for any external device. Also don't put anything out the ref input.

3) If a ref output is desired, enable that independently of the internal ref setting. That way you can run the box without it being a spur monster.

4) If the box is running in default mode, make that internal ref / no external output.

If indeed you wish to provide some sort of auto sensing / auto switching / grab anything / do anything setup ... make that a distinct option after you get the "normal" stuff working as it should.

Why do it this way? If this is being used as a traceable signal source, in about 99% of the cases, it will have an external reference. If that ref goes away, you need to know about it right now. Back in the "good old days" epoxy was used on switches to force this to happen ....

Bob
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on March 07, 2016, 06:00:44 pm
I vote for number 2. That is the way a lot of high dollar gear does it. If there is an external reference plugged in, use it. If not, switch on the internal reference. This is easy and won't damage anything.
Yeah, #2 is the better choice - more specifically, use the external reference if plugged in otherwise use the internal and don't ever output anything on the port until asked to.

However, this may not be so simple from a firmware perspective; it may not be practical to continuously poll to check if there's an external reference and may require switching the internal clock PLL to it to see if lock can be acquired - which would disrupt ongoing waveform generation.  If this is the case, then I'd be fine with it being done automatically at startup only; recabling the bench and changing out the extref source is fine to require a power cycle or manual reconfig, it's so rare anyway.  In my case, at least.  But in this case there's not much use doing anything automatically - just allow it to be set and remember it.


Hi

The last thing in the world you want is an instrument that randomly switches from internal to external standard based on some guess it is making. The only *safe* way to do it:

1) If it's set to external reference, check for the ref. If it is not there toss up a great big error message and stop.

2) If it's set to internal reference, don't check for any external device. Also don't put anything out the ref input.

3) If a ref output is desired, enable that independently of the internal ref setting. That way you can run the box without it being a spur monster.

4) If the box is running in default mode, make that internal ref / no external output.

If indeed you wish to provide some sort of auto sensing / auto switching / grab anything / do anything setup ... make that a distinct option after you get the "normal" stuff working as it should.

Why do it this way? If this is being used as a traceable signal source, in about 99% of the cases, it will have an external reference. If that ref goes away, you need to know about it right now. Back in the "good old days" epoxy was used on switches to force this to happen ....

Bob
Bob, from Siglent tech support:
Yes, this idea is good, our R&D will get to know this.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bson on March 07, 2016, 07:12:30 pm
Bob, from Siglent tech support:
Yes, this idea is good, our R&D will get to know this.
Awesome - thanks!!!  :-+
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: mojoe on March 08, 2016, 04:10:09 am
I didn't mean for the siggen to switch references on the fly. Only at startup, as recommended in the post I was replying to.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: uncle_bob on March 08, 2016, 10:13:58 am
I didn't mean for the siggen to switch references on the fly. Only at startup, as recommended in the post I was replying to.

Hi

The lights go blink, the generator either does or does not reboot. The chain that feeds the external standard either does or does not reboot. Which one gets running first? Who knows ...It's also a problem on benches that have chained standards or a local distribution amplifier. You power up the whole bench at once. What happens? Again, it's only a guess as to what gets going first.

Bob
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: pxl on March 26, 2016, 07:02:51 am
Guys, has anyone actually replaced the fan? Any experiences? Can you make scrambled eggs on it after the replacement? :)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on March 26, 2016, 07:09:31 am
Guys, has anyone actually replaced the fan? Any experiences? Can you make scrambled eggs on it after the replacement? :)
What's the problem with the fan, noise?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: pxl on March 26, 2016, 07:31:14 am
Guys, has anyone actually replaced the fan? Any experiences? Can you make scrambled eggs on it after the replacement? :)
What's the problem with the fan, noise?

Yes, it is definitely loud. No resonations, no bearing noise, it is just the normal airflow and with usual background noise/music it's not bad at all. But in a silent room it is loud. I will replace/slow down/temp control that fan in future in any case, just interested in with the experiences.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on March 26, 2016, 07:57:45 am
Guys, has anyone actually replaced the fan? Any experiences? Can you make scrambled eggs on it after the replacement? :)
What's the problem with the fan, noise?

Yes, it is definitely loud. No resonations, no bearing noise, it is just the normal airflow and with usual background noise/music it's not bad at all. But in a silent room it is loud. I will replace/slow down/temp control that fan in future in any case, just interested in with the experiences.
Hmm, I'll check one from my new stock that's just arrived.

Do you have other equipment to compare it with so to give us an idea of noise level?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: pxl on March 26, 2016, 08:18:06 am
It uses the same fan PAAD16025SL PF00, and actually I don't think that anything wrong with this unit. It's just I have no other device with fan :)

Anyway, for the first look the build quality is very good. It is easily par on my HMO1002, and the BNC outputs, the rotary switch are actually much better than my scope's, so it is pretty amazing. After an hour usage it is pretty cold, so I am sure there is some room for thermal optimisation in this unit. I will get an IR thermometer/FLIR and will measure the temps in it.

The firmware is 2.01.01.16R2.

However I set the beeper off (I like the silent :)), but it forgets after switch off :/
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on March 26, 2016, 08:33:33 am
It uses the same fan PAAD16025SL PF00, and actually I don't think that anything wrong with this unit. It's just I have no other device with fan :)

Anyway, for the first look the build quality is very good. It is easily par on my HMO1002, and the BNC outputs, the rotary switch are actually much better than my scope's, so it is pretty amazing. After an hour usage it is pretty cold, so I am sure there is some room for thermal optimisation in this unit. I will get an IR thermometer/FLIR and will measure the temps in it.

The firmware is 2.01.01.16R2.

However I set the beeper off (I like the silent :)), but it forgets after switch off :/
Latest FW is 17R5:
http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDG2000X-P17R5.rar (http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDG2000X-P17R5.rar)

You'd be better to check internal temps after running under some load into a 50 Ohm load, just powered on producing a low amplitude output into a high impedance load is unlikely to increase internal temps.

Yep, while the fan's not loud it a quite room you can hear it and if none of your gear has fans I now understand your comments.  ;)

My workstation has at least a PC running all the time so some additional noise would't bother me.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: pxl on March 26, 2016, 09:00:42 am
Comparing to my HMO's build in func. gen (10kHz, 4V), the siglent is slightly better, just a tiny bit:
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: markone on March 26, 2016, 09:35:37 am
Comparing to my HMO's build in func. gen (10kHz, 4V), the siglent is slightly better, just a tiny bit:

Quite a pointless comparison, 10Khz sine wave from a 50Khz generator against a 120Mhz one ... if you need clean signal at audio freq use a quality sound card, it wiil draw circles around both.

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: pxl on March 26, 2016, 10:31:18 am
I know I pushed the limits to much on this already low spec'd func. gen :D
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: treecatt on April 02, 2016, 01:39:41 pm
I recently purchased a SDG2042X and just upgraded the firmware to v17R5. After upgrading the firmware I finally got around to setting up the EasyWave software and got it communicating with the 2042X. I created a new waveform in EasyWave that produces two pulses every 16.67 msec. Each pulse is 450 usec in width. The 2nd pulse occurs 2.78 msec after the first pulse occurs. Amplitude is 3.3V with a 1.65V offset (i.e. 0V to 3.3V logic pulses at output ideally). When I send the waveform to the SDG2042X the phase shift gets set to 1.65° but all other settings appear good. When I press recall I see a .bin file on the internal C: drive.

Now I turn off the unit then power it back up. After booting the settings are 1KHz and 4 Vpp with a sine wave in the graphic area to the left. After I recall the .bin file from the internal C: drive the graphic changes to the waveform I created and uploaded but the parameters remain at 1KHz and 4 Vpp. Perhaps I have a misconception but shouldn't the parameters be updated to values from the .bin file as well?

In addition, when I click on the "Read wave" button and select USBTMC connection type the SDG2042X is shown but the wave list is always empty.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: CustomEngineerer on April 02, 2016, 02:15:54 pm
I believe Read Wave is for pulling the signal from a scope. Like if you have a Siglent scope (not sure if it has to be a Siglent scope, would think it shouldn't, but it won't read the waveform from my Rigol scope) that has captured a waveform, you can connect to it and read the captured waveform from the oscilloscope into the Easywave program. Then you could send that waveform to your generator to have it produce the same waveform. Don't quote me on that, but that was my understanding of how it should work.

Edit: Ignore the above, checking in the EasyWave_Help_En help document proves that I have no idea what I'm talking about. Sorry for the bad info.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Steps on April 12, 2016, 11:49:04 pm
Can anybody tell me what should I choose: SDG1050 or SDG2042X? Same price for the moment, but SDG2042X looks like more "modern" and fancy. :o What is the main difference? Comparing MSa vs GSa, etc.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: alank2 on April 13, 2016, 12:12:51 am
I would say the SDG2042X for sure.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: mongo on April 13, 2016, 12:33:46 am
Can anybody tell me what should I choose: SDG1050 or SDG2042X? Same price for the moment, but SDG2042X looks like more "modern" and fancy. :o What is the main difference? Comparing MSa vs GSa, etc.

The SDG2042X has more bits, lower jitter and way more Sa/s, IMHO the SDG1050 would have to be a lot cheaper for it to win out over the SDG2042X.  IIRC the SDG1050 doesn't allow you to add Harmonics either which I have found a lot of use for.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: pxl on April 13, 2016, 03:52:39 am
Can anybody tell me what should I choose: SDG1050 or SDG2042X? Same price for the moment, but SDG2042X looks like more "modern" and fancy. :o What is the main difference? Comparing MSa vs GSa, etc.

I don't know the SDG1050 , but the SDG2042X has excellent build quality regarding the front panel, the buttons, the knob, everything is top notch, probably finer than the old series. My main complaint, however, that it forgets all the settings after restarting :wtf:. We can store and recall the settings, though, but that is far from convenient. Solutions appreciated :)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: alank2 on April 13, 2016, 04:05:07 am
My main complaint, however, that it forgets all the settings after restarting :wtf:.

Did you try - Utility --> System --> PowerOn=Last ?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: pxl on April 13, 2016, 05:15:44 am
My main complaint, however, that it forgets all the settings after restarting :wtf:.
Did you try - Utility --> System --> PowerOn=Last ?

:palm: Thanks, problem solved :)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: alank2 on April 13, 2016, 05:35:16 am
:palm: Thanks, problem solved :)

Excellent.   :-+
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: treecatt on April 13, 2016, 08:14:30 am
Doesn't anyone here use EasyWave? If so, perhaps one of you might provide a response to my question posted on 4/2 (post #304).
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: billfernandez on April 13, 2016, 10:56:08 am
Doesn't anyone here use EasyWave? If so, perhaps one of you might provide a response to my question posted on 4/2 (post #304).

1.  I saw your questions but don't really know the answers.

2. I've tried a number of times to use EasyWave and have yet to get predictable results.

3. It appears that the .bin file is just a bunch of samples with no timing information.  It appears that the samples are used at whatever rate you set, using your choice of DDS or TrueArb (each of which produces different waveforms from the same set of samples).

4.  Good luck.  If you figure it out please share the answers.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: CustomEngineerer on April 13, 2016, 11:03:11 am
Same here. I haven't needed to use Easywave so far, but the few times I did try to play around with it I had trouble getting it to do what I wanted it to, so haven't really spent much time using it.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: mongo on April 13, 2016, 11:14:51 am
Doesn't anyone here use EasyWave? If so, perhaps one of you might provide a response to my question posted on 4/2 (post #304).

Windows is banned from my lab, mostly due to the fun around a particular chip vendor committing corp suicide while trying to fight off chip clones so I don't run it but I have been digging in trying to figure out how to just upload waveforms without their software.

It may not be an answer but hopefully I can offer one soon.  The actual wave files seem to only contain waveform data, in a very basic format.  If the voltage settings are tracked they are in a file called "SDG200X_Arb_Summary_v1.2.xlsx" which is an E-SafeNet locked file.

As this is the only .xlsx file on the filesystem it may be that they are not saving settings for custom Arb file types, but I would highly encourage you to file a bug report, and to get them to change their model.  I highly doubt anyone is going to try to pilfer their file format, and I bet they could have a healthy 3rd party software pool which would be a much larger sales driver than their Easywave software is.

I'll make a note to update this thread if I get more information, if someone else doesn't solve the issue before I get time to look into it.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: treecatt on April 13, 2016, 07:49:54 pm
Thanks to everyone who responded to my question. I'll play further with EasyWave when I have more time.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Steps on April 14, 2016, 01:16:26 am
OK
So I finally close to buy Siglent SDG1025 for 330$ for Siglent sdg2042x for 470$. They are not the equal price. Which one is more value for money? Please help.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: alank2 on April 14, 2016, 01:44:23 am
If it were me, I'd go with the SDG2042X for that amount of difference.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: rf-loop on April 14, 2016, 01:47:28 am
OK
So I finally close to buy Siglent SDG1025 for 330$ for Siglent sdg2042x for 470$. They are not the equal price. Which one is more value for money? Please help.

SDG2042X. 
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Steps on April 14, 2016, 06:47:58 pm
Thank you very much for recommendation. I started my buying activity from GW Instek GFG-8255A which looks like stone age artefact, cost 120$, but fits my demands for the moment. But found that Siglent SDG-805 much more modern and flexible instrument than GW Instek GFG-8255A, both 5 MHz, cost 220$.
And finally Siglent SDG2042X the best choice to cover all needs of elementary hobbyist.
Can anybody PM me how to do little particular adjustment of SDG2042X with fimware 17?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on April 14, 2016, 07:23:42 pm
Can anybody PM me how to do little particular adjustment of SDG2042X with fimware 17?
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/msg855111/#msg855111 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/msg855111/#msg855111)
You've already thanked that post  ;) and AFAIK it's done using Telnet, Google it for clues.....

I haven't done mine yet, waiting for a rainy day.  ;)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: treecatt on April 14, 2016, 08:34:21 pm
Just need a flash drive. If I remember correctly the download is a zip file. Instructions were included in the zip file for upgrading the firmware.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on April 14, 2016, 09:07:46 pm
Just need a flash drive. If I remember correctly the download is a zip file. Instructions were included in the zip file for upgrading the firmware.
You'd better study the linked post and some before it, we're NOT discussing FW upgrades.  ;)

This one:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/msg800106/#msg800106 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/msg800106/#msg800106)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: treecatt on April 15, 2016, 03:15:14 pm
My bad.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: highwayman on April 16, 2016, 08:20:02 am
Does a particular terminal software work better than another?  Between Putty, Ultra Sigma, and Realterm, I am 0 for 3 in telnetting to my SDG2042X.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: rf-loop on April 16, 2016, 04:27:42 pm
Does a particular terminal software work better than another?  Between Putty, Ultra Sigma, and Realterm, I am 0 for 3 in telnetting to my SDG2042X.

Just two messages before:


You'd better study the linked post and some before it, we're NOT discussing FW upgrades.  ;)

This one:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/msg800106/#msg800106 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/msg800106/#msg800106)

Period.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bson on April 17, 2016, 09:48:51 am
Has anyone else seen this?  As I turn the dial to change the amplitude (0.1dBm steps into a 50ohm load I'm probing) the output has discontinuities.

(http://www.rockgarden.net/download/eevblog/sdg2122x_glitch.png)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: uncle_bob on April 17, 2016, 09:51:38 am
Has anyone else seen this?  As I turn the dial to change the amplitude (0.1dBm steps into a 50ohm load I'm probing) the output glitches.

(http://www.rockgarden.net/download/eevblog/sdg2122x_glitch.png)

Hi

The attenuator is running on (slow) relays. The output is running on (fast) logic. There will always be a delay when "spinning the dial".

Bob
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bson on April 17, 2016, 10:01:57 am
Alright, back to the HP 33120A.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: mongo on April 17, 2016, 10:11:31 am
The HP 33120A will have dead time too when it switches ranges, you should not be seeing that delay if you are not moving to another auto-ranging scale.


Looking into a few reed switch spec sheets 50µ sec seems about the norm for a release time and the operate time tends to be ~100ms.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bson on April 17, 2016, 10:19:23 am
Not changing ranges, each and every tick, no matter how small, the Siglent does that.  The HP doesn't - I just checked.  It only changes the amplitude without discontinuities.  Since the ranges overlap it's pretty easy to avoid it for small trims like this.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on April 17, 2016, 11:22:31 am
Not changing ranges, each and every tick, no matter how small, the Siglent does that.  The HP doesn't - I just checked.  It only changes the amplitude without discontinuities.  Since the ranges overlap it's pretty easy to avoid it for small trims like this.
Confirmed and forwarded to Siglent.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bson on April 17, 2016, 04:45:12 pm
Confirmed and forwarded to Siglent.
:-+
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on April 18, 2016, 06:31:50 pm
Confirmed and forwarded to Siglent.
:-+
From Tech support:

We confirm the output glitch.
We will deal with this issue in a later new FW version.


Thanks for the feedback guys.  :-+
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Aeternam on April 18, 2016, 08:38:38 pm
Ok I'm getting one.

Is there a Tequipment or Saelig like shop in Europe I should be ordering from? (US imports are a big nono due to shipping and import taxes...)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: rf-loop on April 18, 2016, 09:14:43 pm
Ok I'm getting one.

Is there a Tequipment or Saelig like shop in Europe I should be ordering from? (US imports are a big nono due to shipping and import taxes...)

Batronix.

http://www.batronix.com/shop/waveform-generator/Siglent-SDG2042X.html (http://www.batronix.com/shop/waveform-generator/Siglent-SDG2042X.html)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Aeternam on April 22, 2016, 04:36:50 pm
It's here and it's great! Came with the latest firmware (17R5) preinstalled.

In case anyone is wondering (I know I was), there is a coax provided in the box  :-+

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Timpert on April 22, 2016, 05:04:32 pm
Has anyone already tested the PWM functionality? I see myself using this one...
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: JohnG on April 22, 2016, 10:30:14 pm
There is another output glitch that I have seen. I sent this directly to Siglent back in early February, but never got a response. It seems like they are much more responsive when it shows up here, so here goes:

When enabling a channel, the DC offset appears to be enabled before the pulse output, and intermittently as well. This can be a big problem when you are starting up. I hope this can be fixed.  Generator set at pulse output, low value zero, high value 10V (10Vpp, 5V offset), 3.33% duty cycle, 70 kHz, using Chan 1 out. The generator is driving a 50 ohm load, so one should see a 0-5V pulse.

The first waveform triggers when output is enabled. There are a bunch of glitches, and note the amplitude of 2.5V (equal to the expected offset value into 50 ohms).

The second shows the same over a long time scale, showing that the output looks like the DC offset of 2.5V for almost 70 ms (!) before the signal kicks in. The "black" area to the right of 70 ms is actually a bunch of narrow output pulses (3.3% duty?) at 70 kHz.

The third waveform is just the signal a while after enabling (looks fine).

John
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: ghulands on April 23, 2016, 09:36:52 am
Is there a possibility to upgrade the bandwith from 40 to 120 by a license key?
The hardware seems to be the same to me.

Looks like someone hasn't read the thread!

Answer: Yes.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on April 23, 2016, 05:17:38 pm
Is there a possibility to upgrade the bandwith from 40 to 120 by a license key?
The hardware seems to be the same to me.

Looks like someone hasn't read the thread!

Answer: Yes.
Reply #322
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on April 24, 2016, 07:40:42 pm
There is another output glitch that I have seen. I sent this directly to Siglent back in early February, but never got a response. It seems like they are much more responsive when it shows up here, so here goes:

When enabling a channel, the DC offset appears to be enabled before the pulse output, and intermittently as well. This can be a big problem when you are starting up. I hope this can be fixed.
Siglent is now linked to your post.
Question: which FW version are you using?
Current Version: 1.17R5
http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDG2000X-P17R5.rar (http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDG2000X-P17R5.rar)

Quote
Generator set at pulse output, low value zero, high value 10V (10Vpp, 5V offset), 3.33% duty cycle, 70 kHz, using Chan 1 out. The generator is driving a 50 ohm load, so one should see a 0-5V pulse.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=219042)
Here's mine, AWG output set for HiZ and into 1M scope input.
(sorry, not prepared to risk damaging the 50 Ohm inputs in my DSO that's rated to 5V as most 50 Ohm inputs are)
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=219449)
Quote
The first waveform triggers when output is enabled. There are a bunch of glitches, and note the amplitude of 2.5V (equal to the expected offset value into 50 ohms).
Not seen any glitches other than the output enable relay contact bounce.
What will your output look like if you set it for 50 Ohm not HiZ as you should for a 50 Ohm load.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=219451)
Quote
The second shows the same over a long time scale, showing that the output looks like the DC offset of 2.5V for almost 70 ms (!) before the signal kicks in. The "black" area to the right of 70 ms is actually a bunch of narrow output pulses (3.3% duty?) at 70 kHz.
Something's wrong here, the offset while initially being correct is then lost and the following correct waveform is then without the selected offset. No detected glitches
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=219453)
Note in all images the baseline and trigger level settings.
All screenshots taken as single shot trigger setting.


Title: Floating output conversion?
Post by: Timpert on April 25, 2016, 01:45:32 am
Ok, so the SDG2042X seems to tick most of my boxes but one: floating signal outputs in order to prevent ground loops, and to gain the ability to refer the outputs to an arbitrary potential. From the teardown videos, I do not see huge obstacles to converting the outputs to floating. The control board and the signal board are connected by a short piece of flat flex cable across which all the digital signals are carried. Replacing that with a little intermediate board containing the right ADuM isolators (and perhaps replace the rear panel BNC's with isolated ones, in case they aren't already there) should do the trick, right? Add a few tens of euros to the cost of the instrument, and you have the signal quality of the 2000X series, combined with the floating outputs sported by the 5000 series. That would be great...

I see one possible hurdle though. In the teardown video on the SDG5000 series, I can clearly distinguish the required isolated voltage output for the CPU board on the power supply board. In the teardown video of the SDG2122X, I can see a separate connection for the for the CPU board, but I see no evidence of an isolated supply voltage: the number of output filters is 4 instead of 5, and the transformer used (NT1795NL) is the same as in the SDG1000 series, and this one has no separate CPU board at all. So it looks to me as though the power supply has a dedicated connection for powering the CPU board, this connection is simply an extra parallel connection to a supply voltage that also goes to the signal generator board. Am I right? Could anyone who has voided the warranty on his generator try to find this out or post a picture of the underside of the PSU board? I hope I am wrong...

Detailed photos on the SDG1000 power supply board, which seems to be almost identical to the SDG2000X power supply, can be found here:
https://sigrok.org/wiki/Siglent_SDG1010 (https://sigrok.org/wiki/Siglent_SDG1010)

Here, at 13:55, you can clearly see the isolated CPU board voltage being made on the SDG5000 PSU board:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VK8MEcOYTOE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VK8MEcOYTOE)   
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Timpert on April 25, 2016, 06:36:45 am
The CPU board looks quite similar (if not the same) to the one used in the SDM3055 multimeter...
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: JohnG on April 25, 2016, 11:07:36 pm
There is another output glitch that I have seen. I sent this directly to Siglent back in early February, but never got a response. It seems like they are much more responsive when it shows up here, so here goes:

When enabling a channel, the DC offset appears to be enabled before the pulse output, and intermittently as well. This can be a big problem when you are starting up. I hope this can be fixed.
Siglent is now linked to your post.
Question: which FW version are you using?
Current Version: 1.17R5


I have the 1.17R5 firmware installed. I understand the glitches are due to a relay, and there is no problem with the offset values, it is never dropped. 0-5V low/high settings are the same as +/-2.5V + 2.5V offset, so I use them interchangeably. Sorry if that caused any confusion.

It looks like internally, the generator does +/-2.5 and then adds an offset, which makes sense to keep all the waveform resolution bits. However, it appears to turn on the offset first, then active the relay, and then finally the pulse. This is not a good order, as now the generator sends this to some circuit under test, in my case a power circuit. By the time the generator output is finally correct, the circuit can be dead.

The circuit under test has a comparator at the input with 2.5 V. Of course we can change it, but should not have to, and 2.5 really the preferred value. Note that we have customers that ask us for recommendations. I would love to recommend the Siglent, and I use it myself. It has a lot of potential, but if it can cause problems with our own stuff, I cannot do that. However, some other bugs got taken care of quickly, so I have hope for this as well.

John
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Marblefish on April 27, 2016, 05:57:21 am
Just wondering why Siglent Europe (siglent.eu) only has available the 15R2 firmware update available for the SDG2042X, but Siglent America has the 17R5 release. Is it something we Europeans have done to upset them or are we destined to be a few releases behind the US?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: nctnico on April 27, 2016, 06:02:40 am
Check http://siglenteu.com/ (http://siglenteu.com/)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: CustomEngineerer on April 27, 2016, 10:52:36 am
I'm pretty sure siglent.eu is just a Siglent reseller, not actually Siglents website. The address nctnico posted is Siglents official European website.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on April 27, 2016, 11:01:15 am
I'm pretty sure siglent.eu is just a Siglent reseller, not actually Siglents website. The address nctnico posted is Siglents official European website.
Correct.
They trade as JR Special Electronics and are listed on the Siglent EU Website as an authorised dealer:
http://www.siglenteu.com/howtobuy.aspx (http://www.siglenteu.com/howtobuy.aspx)

Their principal is member Smoking who really needs to add a disclaimer to his profile
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: ghulands on April 28, 2016, 12:45:59 pm
Received my unit about 20 mins ago. Hack complete. All 120 Mhz of it!

It would have been good if DHCP was enabled by default.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on April 28, 2016, 01:57:19 pm
Received my unit about 20 mins ago. Hack complete. All 120 Mhz of it!

It would have been good if DHCP was enabled by default.
;D

By all means consider writing a "Guide for Dummies" for those less knowledgable than yourself.  ;)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: ghulands on April 28, 2016, 03:05:07 pm
Guide for Dummies

1. Plug in ethernet cable and turn on unit
2. Press Utility -> Page 1/2 -> Interface -> LAN Setup -> DHCP ON
3. On you computer telnet (Windows use Putty, OS X and Linux can just use telnet on the CLI) to the IP Address that's displayed. (If you need to manually specify the port it's 23)
4. mount -o remount,rw ubi2_0 /usr/bin/siglent/firmdata0
5. cp /usr/bin/siglent/firmdata0/NSP_system_info.xml /usr/bin/siglent/firmdata0/NSP_system_info.xml.orig
6. vi /usr/bin/siglent/firmdata0/NSP_system_info.xml
7. Use the down arrow to navigate to the line which has '<license><bandwidth_update_license>xxxx</bandwidth_update_license></license>'
8. Press dd to delete the line. Press ESC. Type :wq then hit enter (write quit)
9. Turn unit off and on again
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: uncle_bob on April 29, 2016, 10:12:20 am
Guide for Dummies

1. Plug in ethernet cable and turn on unit
2. Press Utility -> Page 1/2 -> Interface -> LAN Setup -> DHCP ON
3. On you computer telnet (Windows use Putty, OS X and Linux can just use telnet on the CLI) to the IP Address that's displayed. (If you need to manually specify the port it's 23)
4. mount -o remount,rw ubi2_0 /usr/bin/siglent/firmdata0
5. cp /usr/bin/siglent/firmdata0/NSP_system_info.xml /usr/bin/siglent/firmdata0/NSP_system_info.xml.orig
6. vi /usr/bin/siglent/firmdata0/NSP_system_info.xml
7. Use the down arrow to navigate to the line which has '<license><bandwidth_update_license>xxxx</bandwidth_update_license></license>'
8. Press dd to delete the line. Press ESC. Type :wq then hit enter (write quit)
9. Turn unit off and on again

Hi

For those with tired old fingers do a cd /usr/bin/siglent/firmdata0 after step 4. Next two become:

5. cp NSP_system_info.xml NSP_system_info.xml.orig
6. vi NSP_system_info.xml

Saves a lot of typing ...probably cuts out at least 10 seconds :) Potentially a bit more if you are prone to fat fingering command line stuff. The cd will puke if you give it a bad directory name so you will get feedback there quickly.

Bob
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: ghulands on April 29, 2016, 10:17:42 am
Guide for Dummies

1. Plug in ethernet cable and turn on unit
2. Press Utility -> Page 1/2 -> Interface -> LAN Setup -> DHCP ON
3. On you computer telnet (Windows use Putty, OS X and Linux can just use telnet on the CLI) to the IP Address that's displayed. (If you need to manually specify the port it's 23)
4. mount -o remount,rw ubi2_0 /usr/bin/siglent/firmdata0
5. cp /usr/bin/siglent/firmdata0/NSP_system_info.xml /usr/bin/siglent/firmdata0/NSP_system_info.xml.orig
6. vi /usr/bin/siglent/firmdata0/NSP_system_info.xml
7. Use the down arrow to navigate to the line which has '<license><bandwidth_update_license>xxxx</bandwidth_update_license></license>'
8. Press dd to delete the line. Press ESC. Type :wq then hit enter (write quit)
9. Turn unit off and on again

Hi

For those with tired old fingers do a cd /usr/bin/siglent/firmdata0 after step 4. Next two become:

5. cp NSP_system_info.xml NSP_system_info.xml.orig
6. vi NSP_system_info.xml

Saves a lot of typing ...probably cuts out at least 10 seconds :) Potentially a bit more if you are prone to fat fingering command line stuff. The cd will puke if you give it a bad directory name so you will get feedback there quickly.

Bob

Fingers? Whatcha' talking 'bout Willis? Copy-Paste-Enter!
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: MasterTech on May 05, 2016, 03:47:23 am
Just got my SDG2042x yesterday, nice piece, I absolutely like the ability to generate large peak amplitudes at high frequency, compared to the Rigol at least...

attached is a smile from my scope, which is happy too!
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Steps on May 05, 2016, 04:56:26 pm
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Siglent-SDG2042X-touch-screen-40MHz-1-2GSa-s-signal-waveform-function-generator-dual-channel-16bit-vertical/32477196812.html?ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_7,searchweb201602_1_10017_10034_10021_507_10033_10022_10020_10009_10008_10018_10019,searchweb201603_1&btsid=e40d5ea2-6fe4-4e8d-b40d-33d09f4081fe (http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Siglent-SDG2042X-touch-screen-40MHz-1-2GSa-s-signal-waveform-function-generator-dual-channel-16bit-vertical/32477196812.html?ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_7,searchweb201602_1_10017_10034_10021_507_10033_10022_10020_10009_10008_10018_10019,searchweb201603_1&btsid=e40d5ea2-6fe4-4e8d-b40d-33d09f4081fe)

Chinese sellers read the EEVblog!
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on May 05, 2016, 05:56:49 pm
Chinese sellers read the EEVblog!
;D
But they've never unpacked a SDG2042X  |O

Quote
Accessoires Included:
Siglent SDG2042X Arbitrary Function Generator
User Manual
Guarantee Card
CD (including EasyWave 1.0 computer software system)
Power Cord
USB Cable
Quick Start Guide

BNC cable missing from list ^^^  ::)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: rf-loop on May 05, 2016, 06:12:47 pm
Chinese sellers read the EEVblog!
;D
But they've never unpacked a SDG2042X  |O

Quote
Accessoires Included:
Siglent SDG2042X Arbitrary Function Generator
User Manual
Guarantee Card
CD (including EasyWave 1.0 computer software system)
Power Cord
USB Cable
Quick Start Guide

BNC cable missing from list ^^^  ::)

Calibration certificate is missing.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bson on May 07, 2016, 01:58:40 pm
Another bug... If I set it to output an AM signal with exactly a 25.0MHz carrier it tells me the upper limit is 25MHz, then sets it to 25MHz. :)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on May 07, 2016, 02:34:40 pm
Another bug... If I set it to output an AM signal with exactly a 25.0MHz carrier it tells me the upper limit is 25MHz, then sets it to 25MHz. :)
What about 24.999999 MHz, any warning then?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bson on May 07, 2016, 02:49:48 pm
Another bug... If I set it to output an AM signal with exactly a 25.0MHz carrier it tells me the upper limit is 25MHz, then sets it to 25MHz. :)
What about 24.999999 MHz, any warning then?
Now I tried again and couldn't reproduce it.  Turns out the following steps reproduce it:

1. Set to AM, 25MHz carrier
2. Try to increase it past this with the dial... this will produce a 25MHz limit message
3. Set to AM, 25MHz carrier... and get the same 25MHz limit message

24.999999MHz in step 3 won't reproduce it.

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on May 07, 2016, 02:54:53 pm
Another bug... If I set it to output an AM signal with exactly a 25.0MHz carrier it tells me the upper limit is 25MHz, then sets it to 25MHz. :)
What about 24.999999 MHz, any warning then?
Now I tried again and couldn't reproduce it.  Turns out the following steps reproduce it:

1. Set to AM, 25MHz carrier
2. Try to increase it past this with the dial... this will produce a 25MHz limit message
3. Set to AM, 25MHz carrier... and get the same 25MHz limit message

24.999999MHz in step 3 won't reproduce it.
Of course, it's 1 Hz below the upper limit.

Working as expected IMO or do you still call it a bug.  :-//
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bson on May 07, 2016, 07:04:18 pm
Working as expected IMO or do you still call it a bug.  :-//
Definitely a bug.  When set to a valid value, which 25MHz is, it should just set it and not show any message indicating it couldn't be set.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on May 07, 2016, 07:24:39 pm
Working as expected IMO or do you still call it a bug.  :-//
Definitely a bug.  When set to a valid value, which 25MHz is, it should just set it and not show any message indicating it couldn't be set.
Hmmm, other Siglent AWG's show this same behaviour too and if it was to be changed/fixed what about displaying Maximum Frequency n MHz ?

Or a better message.....?

Re-read.  :phew:

Gotcha, minor bug.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Timpert on May 17, 2016, 06:12:49 am
I had just opened up my new SDG2042X to see if it would be possible to give it isolated outputs (with a little add-on board containing the data isolators and a DC/DC converter). But the first thing that caught my eye was this: the DAC markings had been ground off! Why would they do that? The DAC part number is already a public secret for a little over half a year, so I see no point in this. There are no other parts with erased markings in my device, just the DAC has been "treated". Curious... 
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: rf-loop on May 17, 2016, 06:56:41 am
I had just opened up my new SDG2042X to see if it would be possible to give it isolated outputs (with a little add-on board containing the data isolators and a DC/DC converter). But the first thing that caught my eye was this: the DAC markings had been ground off! Why would they do that? The DAC part number is already a public secret for a little over half a year, so I see no point in this. There are no other parts with erased markings in my device, just the DAC has been "treated". Curious...

But you do not now know what is exactly in your equipment. We only know what it have been in unit where from this old information is.

User need  know what is coming out from BNC not exactly how its is done.

They have learn this from Rigol and many others. World is full of parts who want use all available information for do they own application or for other purposes, even source of components may be sensitive information in some competition situations as we well know from example mobile phone industry etc.

Of course other possible is to do it like  Keysight (HP, Agilent) or Tektronix tens of years and use own customer part number on chip.
Chinese need learn this western normal practice and no one caught.

If I develop and made these I will hide much much more.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Timpert on May 17, 2016, 06:18:02 pm
Quote
User need  know what is coming out from BNC not exactly how its is done.
Have you never run into a situation where you wanted to know why exactly your equipment was behaving the way it did? I do, frankly, quite often. For the average consumer, there usually is no need to know what's going on inside a piece of gear. In an electronics R&D lab, things may be different. For this market, selling "black boxes" is not the way to go according to many (including myself). And the manufacturer may benefit from this as well, see "Project Yaigol" where a design goof-up is being fixed in the clock generator of a Rigol scope. Someone else is doing Rigol's homework. Free of charge!

Quote
If I develop and made these I will hide much much more.
What are you afraid of?

The difference with A brand test gear is that, if you run into an issue, you can talk to a support engineer or probably even a development engineer for those special cases who will help you and provide you with the necessary technical information to solve your problem. With the B brands, you usually don't get that kind of support (which is to be expected, given the price of the box). Instead, you need to rely on community support on forums like this one, and from people who have taken the time to dive into the instrument and figure out what happens under the bonnet. This community support is what helps sell the devices as well, so IMHO any manufacturer who relies on community support (which Siglent clearly does), is shooting himself in the foot by witholding technical information and resorting to silly measures like rubbing off a part number.

To make a long story short: rubbing off a part number raises the "dodgy!" flag. Just don't do that, because it makes you go down a rung on the credibility ladder. IMHO of course.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: nctnico on May 17, 2016, 06:38:18 pm
The major brands have been removing part numbers for a long time. They even stamp their own parts number on jelly bean parts like a TL074 opamp.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: rf-loop on May 17, 2016, 07:31:49 pm
Quote
User need  know what is coming out from BNC not exactly how its is done.
Have you never run into a situation where you wanted to know why exactly your equipment was behaving the way it did?

Yes, and lot of.
I have only around 50 years of experience with many kind of electronics due to radio and other electronics  hobby, due to long time industrial automation and industrial electronics including power electronics and electric repair, maintenance, modifications and previously also designing some electronics. Also with these all,  "some amount" of experience with many kind of T&M equipments for field and R&D use. Also repairing them, also calibrating them and also doing some modifications for some very special purposes. Also something previously with electronic equipments manufacturing.  Also I know something about problems in China and how challenging environment it is with tens of thousends "car carage" or even more manufacturing copy cats and A to D level "factories"  etc.  (there is my 2nd home)
And I'm not yet ready for retire. If I get to decide that.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: rf-loop on May 17, 2016, 07:33:43 pm
Siglent have published SDG2000X series service manual. (http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Documents/service_manual/SDG2000X_ServiceManual_SM0202X-E01A.pdf)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: rf-loop on May 17, 2016, 07:43:17 pm

Quote
Quote
If I develop and made these I will hide much much more.
What are you afraid of?

You have never developed-designed and manufactured anything intelligent and no one have after then stolen your ready work?


These are not "open <sh---cencored>"
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: pxl on May 17, 2016, 08:52:31 pm

Quote
Quote
If I develop and made these I will hide much much more.
What are you afraid of?

You have never developed-designed and manufactured anything intelligent and no one have after then stolen your ready work?

These are not "open <sh---cencored>"

Yeah, just see the blatant ripoff of the Agilent multimeter copied by Siglent :P
And this is the new consistent design of the "X" series, like the SDG2042X, which is great in one hand (looks and feels high quality), but on the other hand  :palm:
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Timpert on May 17, 2016, 09:21:10 pm
Quote
You have never developed-designed and manufactured anything intelligent and no one have after then stolen your ready work?

In this specific case, just by tracing the digital inputs, analog outputs, counting the pins, checking the package and key requirements, the DAC can probably be uniquely identified, with a continuity bleeper as your only measurement instrument. Rubbing off the part number doesn't prevent that, it just makes it a bit harder. The only thing that cannot easily be traced is the grade of the chip that's on the board. This raises the question: what are they really hiding?

Copycats are a real problem, I'd be the first one to admit that. But there are better ways to prevent them from stealing your IP than (needlessly) rubbing off part numbers. Security by obscurity doesn't work in this market. In this case, the FPGA is the place where the magic happens. Encrypting the configuration code is an obvious, and far more effective method to keep copycats from reverse engineering your product. Even that is not water tight, and there is an army of smart engineers willing to pick up such a challenge.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on May 18, 2016, 06:20:15 am
Yeah, just see the blatant ripoff of the Agilent multimeter copied by Siglent :P
You'd be well advised to do some more homework.  :P

See this post and others that are linked to.  ;)
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg637615/#msg637615 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg637615/#msg637615)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Aeternam on May 25, 2016, 05:04:18 pm
I had just opened up my new SDG2042X to see if it would be possible to give it isolated outputs (with a little add-on board containing the data isolators and a DC/DC converter).

Any news? This seems like an interesting little project...
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on May 25, 2016, 05:57:05 pm
I had just opened up my new SDG2042X to see if it would be possible to give it isolated outputs (with a little add-on board containing the data isolators and a DC/DC converter).

Any news? This seems like an interesting little project...
Are you aware the SDG5000 series offers isolated outputs as standard spec?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Timpert on May 25, 2016, 09:47:17 pm
Quote
Are you aware the SDG5000 series offers isolated outputs as standard spec?
Yes, I am, but the SDG5000 is in another price bracket, and it has a slightly poorer sine wave quality too. So getting an SDG2042X and trying to isolate its outputs seemed like a worthwhile attempt to me.

I will share some news on my progress, but please don't expect too much on short notice. I have gotten quite a bit of work on my plate lately.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: rf-loop on May 26, 2016, 01:01:47 am
I had just opened up my new SDG2042X to see if it would be possible to give it isolated outputs (with a little add-on board containing the data isolators and a DC/DC converter).

Any news? This seems like an interesting little project...
Are you aware the SDG5000 series offers isolated outputs as standard spec?

They are not true isolated if mean true DC-AC-(RF) isolation.
But, DC isolation, they do not lie. But....

Also channels are not isolated from each other.

In this case "Isolation" mean that whole signal board is DC floating but nothing more if look floating impedance.

There is high capasitive connection to chassis and between chassis and BNC GNG is max 42V.
Capasitance from BNC GND to Chassis is somewhere around >3uF ! (least in SDG5082 individual unit what I have)
Reactance with 50Hz is around 1ohm Omg. Err...  Right is of course around 1kohm.


Example HP33120A  floating output have around 4000pF  as can see in attachment.
This reactance with 50Hz is around 800kohm
Same max 42Vpk.

Lets hope Timbert find nice solution and sell it to Siglent.

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: MasterTech on May 26, 2016, 02:47:08 am
One thing i'm missing from the SDG2042 is the ability to add noise to the generated waveform, ie sine+noise, pulse+noise....

BTW heres the spectrum of the white noise coming out of the generator, 130mV stddev over 50ohms, 120Mhz bandwidth  :D:
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Timpert on May 27, 2016, 06:03:53 pm
Quote
Reactance with 50Hz is around 1ohm
Really? How can that be with a 3 uF capacitance to ground? And where is the component that causes that? Anything like that is borderline useless, as one of the points of isolated outputs is to break the ground loop that now always exists when using the generator together with a scope. I have looked at the teardown video and pictures of the SDG5000, and they use a bunch of ADuM isolators, and galvanically isolated power supplies, so a reasonable capacity to ground would be somewhere around 10 nF.

I have opened up my generator a while ago to figure out the signals between the CPU board and the signal generator board. I am currently still doing the feasibility research, but so far I have not found anything that makes isolation impossible. It is however a little less trivial than I initially thought. When I have established definitively to go ahead with this, I'll open up another thread for it.

MasterTech's post is one of many showing that the signal quality of this generator is very good for it's class.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: nugglix on May 27, 2016, 06:51:26 pm
One thing i'm missing from the SDG2042 is the ability to add noise to the generated waveform, ie sine+noise, pulse+noise....

*cough*

Under modulation you can find noise as mod-waveform.
At least on my unit...
Works for AM, FM and PM at least.
Also seems to work for the standard waveforms.
But I've no time to test that now.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Ivan7enych on May 27, 2016, 08:52:57 pm
One thing i'm missing from the SDG2042 is the ability to add noise to the generated waveform, ie sine+noise, pulse+noise....

BTW heres the spectrum of the white noise coming out of the generator, 130mV stddev over 50ohms, 120Mhz bandwidth  :D:
Spectrum looks like an analog based noise generator.

Rigol DG4062 can add noise to signal, but it's spectrum is not uniform and looks like many many spikes (digitaly constructed noise pattern?).
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: MasterTech on May 27, 2016, 10:27:18 pm
The lowest signal tone it can generate is 1 mVpp, -56dbm and its pretty clean:


Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: rf-loop on May 28, 2016, 01:05:56 am
Quote
Reactance with 50Hz is around 1ohm
Really? How can that be with a 3 uF capacitance to ground? And where is the component that causes that?

Here attached image from one SDG5082 output on the PCB.

Capacitor parallel with bidirectional TVS  from connector GND to chassis.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Timpert on May 28, 2016, 07:28:37 am
Have you measured the AC voltage between signal ground and chassis on your SDG5000 with it powered on, output enabled and nothing connected? Also measure the AC leakage current from signal ground to chassis. I bet there's some capacitive coupling from the mains to the output in the power supply via the transformer and the EMI suppression cap. Or your TVS diode may be shot.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: rf-loop on May 28, 2016, 05:15:01 pm
I bet there's some capacitive coupling from the mains to the output in the power supply via the transformer and the EMI suppression cap. Or your TVS diode may be shot.

TVS diodes are ok. I told there is high capasitive coupling from signal board to equipment chassis. These coupling capasitors, parallel with TVS, you can see in image. I do not need advisory for find problem in my SDG5k. Why start finding problem where is not problem?  I only tell how it is designed (and when asked about this capasitance) and it works as designed and manufactured.  I'm not interested to find where is possible other capasittive pico- and nano Farades connections (designed and parasitic)  here and there when there exist also microfarads.)  Why you think TVS diode shot, my SDG5k does not have a fault.  Or do you mean this 1kohm capasitive reactance between chassis and output BNC GND. 1kohm 50Hz reactance is not at all good.  It is barely acceptable if we have pure clean sinewave mains.  There exist lot of LF-HF noise in mains and with this high capasitive connection if there exist (example) 50kHz freq components reactance is now around 1ohm (take scope or analyzer and look what all there is traveling in mains (this is why I use in many cases filtered mains). When look example HP in previous example, there is around 4nF.
So in SDG5k we can talk more like there is just "DC block" <42V

Totally other question is if I like it or not or if someone else like it or not.

I can tell my personal single opinion and it is: I do not like how they have done it. If I design this equipment I will do it different for bit better (in this specific output isolation question).

This "isolation" in SDG5k is still lot of better better than nothing.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: MasterTech on May 28, 2016, 07:28:50 pm
Just found a SW bug regarding the modulation with noise:

1) Set carrier, eg 40MHz
2) turn on AM modulation, 100% depth, sine wave, set AM frequency to  x Mhz (I used x=1, but tested others too)
At this point the correct AM modulated waveform is generated
3) Change modulation "shape" to noise
instead of noise being modulated, an infinite number of sub-carriers spaced x Mhz apart are generated
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on May 28, 2016, 07:39:25 pm
Just found a SW bug regarding the modulation with noise:

1) Set carrier, eg 40MHz
2) turn on AM modulation, 100% depth, sine wave, set AM frequency to  x Mhz (I used x=1, but tested others too)
At this point the correct AM modulated waveform is generated
3) Change modulation "shape" to noise
instead of noise being modulated, an infinite number of sub-carriers spaced x Mhz apart are generated
Can I ask, which model? 40, 80 or 120 MHz unit.

Edit.
Got a PM from MasterTech and his is a improved SDG2042X. <wink>
We'll attempt to replicate this bug with a new unit and if proven will be notified to Siglent next week.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Timpert on May 29, 2016, 12:13:19 am
@rf-loop: no offense meant, I just reacted to your post before you corrected your typo. 1k Ohms perfectly adds up with the 3 uF you mentioned. I hope we can agree that if the impedance to ground really were 1 Ohm, then something would be seriously knackered.

@everyone interested: The reason why Siglent chose the rather large capacitance between output ground and chassis for the SDG5000 lies in the EMI suppression scheme they chose for the power supply. There is a little 2.2 nF suppression cap next to the transformer, that is connected between the output common and the primary circuit's negative rail. This negative rail bounces up and down at roughly one half mains voltage (so in my case 325 V P-P), and if nothing is done to suppress that, that voltage will end up superimposed on the output voltage. Very high-Z though, but enough to give you a slight tingle and to damage electronics. When you draw that away with 3 uF to chassis it drops to some 80 mV RMS, low enough so that nobody will be bothered.

The SDG2000X power supply is almost identical to that of the SDG5000, and it has the same EMI suppression scheme. So I can choose to go for an isolation solution like the SDG5000 and accept 3 uF between output ground and chassis, or I can try to tackle the PSU as well, and aim for something in the 10 nF range, which a good bit more useful. But as rf-loop rightfully concluded, 3 uF output-to-ground capacity is still a lot better than no isolation. So I suppose this is one of the reasons why you pay top dollar for a Hagsight generator. 

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: rf-loop on May 29, 2016, 03:21:55 am
@rf-loop: no offense meant, I just reacted to your post before you corrected your typo. 1k Ohms perfectly adds up with the 3 uF you mentioned. I hope we can agree that if the impedance to ground really were 1 Ohm, then something would be seriously knackered.

@everyone interested: The reason why Siglent chose the rather large capacitance between output ground and chassis for the SDG5000 lies in the EMI suppression scheme they chose for the power supply. There is a little 2.2 nF suppression cap next to the transformer, that is connected between the output common and the primary circuit's negative rail. This negative rail bounces up and down at roughly one half mains voltage (so in my case 325 V P-P), and if nothing is done to suppress that, that voltage will end up superimposed on the output voltage. Very high-Z though, but enough to give you a slight tingle and to damage electronics. When you draw that away with 3 uF to chassis it drops to some 80 mV RMS, low enough so that nobody will be bothered.

The SDG2000X power supply is almost identical to that of the SDG5000, and it has the same EMI suppression scheme. So I can choose to go for an isolation solution like the SDG5000 and accept 3 uF between output ground and chassis, or I can try to tackle the PSU as well, and aim for something in the 10 nF range, which a good bit more useful. But as rf-loop rightfully concluded, 3 uF output-to-ground capacity is still a lot better than no isolation. So I suppose this is one of the reasons why you pay top dollar for a Hagsight generator.

Yes this 1ohm was my typo.  Later I think why you wonder this. I read my msg agen and did not se any strange, until later I read agen and ...ooops..there is k missing.

But yes I agree what you say about construction (and also reason).  In equipment there need do compromise with things. If I do it I do different and try much less coupling cap to chassis as example there in HP.

But, with this design we need live with SDG5k.

It is nice if SDG2000X can get least some kind of isolation modification but if can reach 10-20nF range is "super" (in this case) imho.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Timpert on May 30, 2016, 05:52:52 am
For a moment I thought I might have a solution that brings isolated outputs with a capacity of roughly 60 nF to ground, with only a small change in the PSU's EMI filtering.  But some more thinking revealed an unacceptable side effect of this change: about 100 mVrms of residual at the switch frequency, ouch! So it will have to be 3 uF to ground and keeping the current PSU EMI filtering scheme, the same as with the SDG5000. Otherwise, EMI performance will be horrible.

The reason for this is the use of an unshielded power transformer in the (resonant) PSU, giving a significant capacitive coupling between primary and secondary. The deluxe option would be to replace the power transformer with an appropriately shielded one (2 shields are required at the least), but that would be a major operation. Not that I don't like the challenge, and I feel that it should be doable, but I also feel that I am going overboard when I take this route.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on May 31, 2016, 03:19:57 pm
Just found a SW bug regarding the modulation with noise:

1) Set carrier, eg 40MHz
2) turn on AM modulation, 100% depth, sine wave, set AM frequency to  x Mhz (I used x=1, but tested others too)
At this point the correct AM modulated waveform is generated
3) Change modulation "shape" to noise
instead of noise being modulated, an infinite number of sub-carriers spaced x Mhz apart are generated
Can I ask, which model? 40, 80 or 120 MHz unit.

Edit.
Got a PM from MasterTech and his is a improved SDG2042X. <wink>
We'll attempt to replicate this bug with a new unit and if proven will be notified to Siglent next week.
Following on from the bug MasterTech revealed above....

Is a Noise type of modulation even required?  :-//
Why? Real use example please.

Do other AWG's provide Noise modulation of waveforms?
Makes? Models?

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: MasterTech on May 31, 2016, 03:59:33 pm
Just found a SW bug regarding the modulation with noise:

1) Set carrier, eg 40MHz
2) turn on AM modulation, 100% depth, sine wave, set AM frequency to  x Mhz (I used x=1, but tested others too)
At this point the correct AM modulated waveform is generated
3) Change modulation "shape" to noise
instead of noise being modulated, an infinite number of sub-carriers spaced x Mhz apart are generated
Can I ask, which model? 40, 80 or 120 MHz unit.

Edit.
Got a PM from MasterTech and his is a improved SDG2042X. <wink>
We'll attempt to replicate this bug with a new unit and if proven will be notified to Siglent next week.
Following on from the bug MasterTech revealed above....

Is a Noise type of modulation even required?  :-//
Why? Real use example please.

Do other AWG's provide Noise modulation of waveforms?
Makes? Models?

It actually doesn't make any sense, if I were Siglent I'd remove that option in the modulation menus. They are looking for trouble by doing it this way.
However, adding noise to other waveforms (ie sine+noise, pulse+noise, etc...)  is very useful, as it lets you mimic real life conditions at the input of devices like logic gates, drivers, demodulators..... That feature should be added in my humble opinion. ^-^
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: rf-loop on May 31, 2016, 04:22:18 pm
Just found a SW bug regarding the modulation with noise:

1) Set carrier, eg 40MHz
2) turn on AM modulation, 100% depth, sine wave, set AM frequency to  x Mhz (I used x=1, but tested others too)
At this point the correct AM modulated waveform is generated
3) Change modulation "shape" to noise
instead of noise being modulated, an infinite number of sub-carriers spaced x Mhz apart are generated
Can I ask, which model? 40, 80 or 120 MHz unit.

Edit.
Got a PM from MasterTech and his is a improved SDG2042X. <wink>
We'll attempt to replicate this bug with a new unit and if proven will be notified to Siglent next week.
Following on from the bug MasterTech revealed above....

Is a Noise type of modulation even required?  :-//
Why? Real use example please.

Do other AWG's provide Noise modulation of waveforms?
Makes? Models?

Take one SW radio and turn it on. Start searching some transmission.
What you hear. You hear enormous amount of natural and human made noise and somewhere inside this are also many kind of signals. In lab when we test example wireless data transmission we need signal + noise for emulate natural situation. (yes it can do also other ways) Some times overall noise level is far over wanted signal level and we need build equipments what can catch this signal from deep under noise level. ;) ;)

(Least I solve this problem with mixixing noise source and signal)

But overall, noise is very important tool for many many things and usefulness of noise is many times underestimated or even misunderstooded.   Pity that these AWG software made noises are  mostly far from ideal random gaussian noise.
How you characterize filter. Whos is using sweep generator. Other and very good way is use just noise. Input wide BW random (white or nearly white or bit pink) noise to filter and look what come out, thats it and so simple.
Even if you transmit RS232 over cable between equipments, how uoy know it work in real word if you have tested only with ideal "school book" signal. No, it need test in natural worst caase environment or you need simulate this situation, noise is one good tool for it. So, modulate your pulse queye with noise and know more how it work.

If we use signal generator only connected to oscilloscope and we want look nice images on the scope screen...  we want clean signal many times. But for real testings we need also dirty or very dirty signals and so that all parameters are in "worst case" position, including levels, freq tolerances, noises and mismatching ringing etc. These can simulate with good tools. Going to natural worst case real world testing is next phase but this IS expensive. One test may cost more that couple of equipments. ;)

(I have not tested SDG2000X noise modulation but SDG5000 I have tested and if talk seriously. It is NOT true gaussian random noise. It is some kind of "looks like random but not at all random" fake noise.

One example here. I can ask. is this random gaussian noise. No, it is far away. (yes there is trick and note also scale but... if look this with spectrum... it is fun)

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on May 31, 2016, 05:10:20 pm
It actually doesn't make any sense, if I were Siglent I'd remove that option in the modulation menus. They are looking for trouble by doing it this way.
This is what's being considered. ^^

Quote
However, adding noise to other waveforms (ie sine+noise, pulse+noise, etc...)  is very useful, as it lets you mimic real life conditions at the input of devices like logic gates, drivers, demodulators..... That feature should be added in my humble opinion. ^-^
Thanks for your feedback.  :-+
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Steps on May 31, 2016, 11:47:50 pm
Guide for Dummies

1. Plug in ethernet cable and turn on unit
2. Press Utility -> Page 1/2 -> Interface -> LAN Setup -> DHCP ON
3. On you computer telnet (Windows use Putty, OS X and Linux can just use telnet on the CLI) to the IP Address that's displayed. (If you need to manually specify the port it's 23)
4. mount -o remount,rw ubi2_0 /usr/bin/siglent/firmdata0
5. cp /usr/bin/siglent/firmdata0/NSP_system_info.xml /usr/bin/siglent/firmdata0/NSP_system_info.xml.orig
6. vi /usr/bin/siglent/firmdata0/NSP_system_info.xml
7. Use the down arrow to navigate to the line which has '<license><bandwidth_update_license>xxxx</bandwidth_update_license></license>'
8. Press dd to delete the line. Press ESC. Type :wq then hit enter (write quit)
9. Turn unit off and on again

Done!
Thanks. I feel myself like real hacker.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bson on June 01, 2016, 03:00:52 pm
Found another bug.  Set the output to a 5dBm sine wave.  Use the dial to reduce it in 1dBm steps.  It won't go negative.
Set the output to -5dBm.  Turn the dial to go positive.  It won't let you turn it back down to -5dBm again.  Once negative you can go up and down, but it refuses to cross 0dBm going downwards.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: pascal_sweden on June 12, 2016, 09:53:05 am
High-performance sampling system with 1.2 GSa/s sampling rate and 16-bit vertical resolution.

Innovative TrueArb technology, based on a point-by-point architecture, supports any 8 pts ~ 8 Mpts Arb waveform with a sampling rate in range of 1 uSa/s ~ 75 MSa/s.

Where does the limitation of 75 MSa/s come from, while it uses a sampling system with 1.2 GSa/s?

For which signals does it use 1.2 GSa/s? And for which does it use less?

Why you would want to use a variable sampling rate that goes down to 1 uSa/s?
Isn't it better to just always use the highest available sampling rate for best results?

Or is it because of memory limitations, when you want to store longer periods?
But then again, isn't 1 uSa/s a bit on the low side? :)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: billfernandez on June 12, 2016, 12:47:19 pm
High-performance sampling system with 1.2 GSa/s sampling rate and 16-bit vertical resolution.

Innovative TrueArb technology, based on a point-by-point architecture, supports any 8 pts ~ 8 Mpts Arb waveform with a sampling rate in range of 1 uSa/s ~ 75 MSa/s.

Where does the limitation of 75 MSa/s come from, while it uses a sampling system with 1.2 GSa/s?

For which signals does it use 1.2 GSa/s? And for which does it use less?

Why you would want to use a variable sampling rate that goes down to 1 uSa/s?
Isn't it better to just always use the highest available sampling rate for best results?

Or is it because of memory limitations, when you want to store longer periods?
But then again, isn't 1 uSa/s a bit on the low side? :)

Siglent tends to combine random good-sounding specs into a single passage, making it hard to figure out where they all come from.  Here are partial answers from my personal notes:

16-BIT RESOLUTION AND 1.2GS/s:

These apply to the DDS (Direct Digital Synthesis) mode of generating arbitrary waveforms.

IN DDS mode the unit pulls 14-bit samples from memory at the rate of 300 million samples per second, then between every two adjacent samples it inserts three interpolated samples that it creates on the fly, resulting in four 16-bit values OUT for every one 14-bit sample IN.  The resulting sample stream is sent to the  digital-to-analog converter at the rate of 1.2 gigasamples per second (four times the rate at which samples are pulled from memory).  This allows the generator to output much cleaner waveforms.  Note that no interpolation is done between the first and last sample if the generator is set to loop the sample set.

75Ms/s, 1uS/s:

These apply to the TrueArb mode of generating arbitrary waveforms.

In TrueArb mode the unit will draw samples from memory at a variable rate from 1 sample per 1 million seconds to 75 million samples per second and deliver them (with interpolation?) to the DAC.

Note that the unit will only let you set a "frequency" of up to 4.577,637kHz.  But frequency of what?  If you divide 75M by 4.6k you get 16,384.  So apparently when you set the frequency you are telling the unit how fast to cycle through 16,384 samples.

So what happens if you have more than 16K samples in your sample set?  I don't know.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: CustomEngineerer on June 12, 2016, 12:51:11 pm
Good explanation of how "TrueArb" waveform generation works (as well as other methods) can be found in this technical brief from Tektronix.

http://www.tek.com/document/fact-sheet/understanding-signal-generation-methodologies (http://www.tek.com/document/fact-sheet/understanding-signal-generation-methodologies)

As far as why you wouldn't always want to use the highest sampling rate. TrueArb generators work on a variable clock, and displays every point in the waveform. To control the frequency, you change the sample rate. While the SDG2000X generators will allow you to switch to frequency adjustment while in TrueArb mode, its really just changing the sample rate to change the output frequency.

This next part is how I understand it, but could certainly be wrong. The max sample rate in TrueArb mode is 75MSa/s. The 1.2GSa/s is when in DDS mode, where the actual sample rate is 300MSa/s, but 4x interpolated to get the effective sample rate of 1.2GSa/s. So the sample rate is much higher in DDS mode, but with TrueArb mode you are guaranteed to have every point displayed accurately. Each method has its pros and cons. Which mode you use will depend on what you are trying to do.

Edit: Good explanation of using interpolation and filtering for signal generation from National Instruments: http://sine.ni.com/np/app/main/p/ap/mi/lang/en/pg/1/sn/n17:mi,n21:42/fmid/3014/ (http://sine.ni.com/np/app/main/p/ap/mi/lang/en/pg/1/sn/n17:mi,n21:42/fmid/3014/)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: CustomEngineerer on June 12, 2016, 01:05:21 pm
Note that the unit will only let you set a "frequency" of up to 4.577,637kHz.  But frequency of what?  If you divide 75M by 4.6k you get 16,384.  So apparently when you set the frequency you are telling the unit how fast to cycle through 16,384 samples.

So what happens if you have more than 16K samples in your sample set?  I don't know.

The max "frequency" it will let you set in TrueArb mode is dependent on the number of samples in the waveform. If the waveform has 375points, the max "frequency" you can set it to is 200KHz. 75M / 375 = 200,000. So it would be the same if you had more than 16K samples, the max "frequency" you could set would be lower than 4.6KHz. You are correct, that frequency is essentially telling it how fast to cycle through the points in memory. Your actual output frequency will depend on how many cycles are in your waveform. So if you have an 375 pts waveform, thats composed of 2 cycles of a sine wave, running at 75MSa/s, your actual output frequency would be 400KHz.

Pretty sure those numbers are correct, but definitely open to correction if I'm being stupid.

Edit: I know 375pts was an odd number to pick, but the SDG2000X have several different sized builtin demo arb waveforms, and 375pt was the smallest one. If I hadn't been working on the lab computer this weekend I would have generated an 8pt signal with the EasyWave software and probably used that for my example.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: MasterTech on June 12, 2016, 03:16:57 pm
Also note that the minimum pulse rise time is said to be 8.4ns in the specs (thats in arb mode), but its not, it can go down to 4.5ns in dds mode :-+
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bson on June 12, 2016, 03:25:09 pm
Oh, so it doesn't interpolate between the last and first sample in a recurring DDS waveform?  This explains a few things.  That's also braindead IMO.  This means a repeating waveform has to be oversampled into N*4+1 samples and decimated to N+1 before uploading to the generator, when you really want an N sample long repeating waveform.   :palm:
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: pascal_sweden on June 12, 2016, 11:30:32 pm
How big are the sample rates with the Siglent SDG1025?

Is it there more consistent and 125 MSa/s both for DDS mode and ARB mode? In that case the SDG1025 performs better than the SDG2042X in ARB mode? Really?

Does the SDG1025 also do interpolation?

Regarding no interpolation on SDG2042X between the last and first sample in a recurring DDS waveform.
Could this be fixed in a firmware update? Maybe this can be reported to Siglent?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: CustomEngineerer on June 13, 2016, 06:18:08 am
The SDG1025 doesn't have TrueArb, only DDS. It uses DDS for generating both the builtin waveforms as well as the arbitrary waveforms.

Edit: Good explanation of SDG1000 DDS vs SDG2000X TrueArb sample rates from rf-loop can be found here
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/best-arbitrary-waveform-generator-for-around-$500/msg756726/#msg756726 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/best-arbitrary-waveform-generator-for-around-$500/msg756726/#msg756726)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Timpert on June 13, 2016, 06:26:51 am
Could it be possible that the FPGA passes its data to the DAC chip at 300 MSPS instead or 1.2 GSPS? The DAC is equipped with configurable on-chip interpolation filters up to 8x, so getting the sample rate up to 1.2 GSPS requires configuriguration of the on-chip interpolation to 4x and feeding data in at 300 MSPS per channel. Perhaps the folks at Siglent used another round of upsampling in the FPGA to brush up the arb waveform signal fidelity, so that it is usable right up to the Nyquist frequency? Having to carry "only" 300 MSPS (or even 150 MSPS in true ARB mode with the DAC set to 8x upsampling) to the DAC instead of 1.2 GSPS simplifies hardware design and FPGA workload, so I'd more or less expect Siglent to do something like this in a cost-concious product.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: pascal_sweden on June 13, 2016, 06:46:51 am
Thanks for the links to the documents from Tektronix and National Instruments.
I will go through these documents, and come back if I still have questions :)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Siglent America on June 17, 2016, 10:25:07 pm
Hello all.

Another nice new firmware update on the Siglent SDG2000X generators. It adds some new features - such as the ability to Combine CH1 & CH2 - as well as fixes some bugs.. Here is the FW link and what it does:

    You can download the firmware from the below URL:
http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDG2000X-P21R2.rar (http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDG2000X-P21R2.rar)

    The new firmware details:
-------------------------------------------
1. Added Waveform Combination function, to support combining CH1 and CH2 from internal to generate complex signals such as sine + noise and two-tone. The set path: Utility | Output Setup | Wave Combine
2. Added mode selection: “Phase-Locked”and “Independent”. In “Phase-Locked” mode the generator resets both channels every time the frequency is changed to maintain synchronization automatically.
In “Independent”mode the generator will not reset any channel when the frequency is changed; the phase difference between channels is random. The set path: Utility | mode
3. Fixed several bugs
        a) Can not remove files with illegal characters
        b) In burst mode, press the soft key for cycles, it changes to infinite right off the bat
        c) External modulation input inverted compared to convention
        d) Can not remember the clock source setting
        e) Some unexpected glitches when enabling the output or change the parameters
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: uncle_bob on June 17, 2016, 10:33:58 pm
Hello all.

Another nice new firmware update on the Siglent SDG2000X generators. It adds some new features - such as the ability to Combine CH1 & CH2 - as well as fixes some bugs.. Here is the FW link and what it does:

    You can download the firmware from the below URL:
http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDG2000X-P21R2.rar (http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDG2000X-P21R2.rar)

    The new firmware details:
-------------------------------------------
1. Added Waveform Combination function, to support combining CH1 and CH2 from internal to generate complex signals such as sine + noise and two-tone. The set path: Utility | Output Setup | Wave Combine
2. Added mode selection: “Phase-Locked”and “Independent”. In “Phase-Locked” mode the generator resets both channels every time the frequency is changed to maintain synchronization automatically.
In “Independent”mode the generator will not reset any channel when the frequency is changed; the phase difference between channels is random. The set path: Utility | mode
3. Fixed several bugs
        a) Can not remove files with illegal characters
        b) In burst mode, press the soft key for cycles, it changes to infinite right off the bat
        c) External modulation input inverted compared to convention
        d) Can not remember the clock source setting
        e) Some unexpected glitches when enabling the output or change the parameters

Hi

As an owner of one of these generators, let me thank you for posting this. It is definitely a plus to get both a heads up on updates *and* an explanation of what to expect when I do the update.

Thanks!

Bob
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: nugglix on June 17, 2016, 11:38:35 pm
As an owner of one of these generators, let me thank you for posting this. It is definitely a plus to get both a heads up on updates *and* an explanation of what to expect when I do the update.

Thanks!

+1

Really nice to know in advance what has been changed.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bson on June 18, 2016, 02:30:40 am
Lots of good fixes there - can't wait to get it installed!
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: CustomEngineerer on June 18, 2016, 02:41:24 am
Hello all.

Another nice new firmware update on the Siglent SDG2000X generators. It adds some new features - such as the ability to Combine CH1 & CH2 - as well as fixes some bugs.. Here is the FW link and what it does:

    You can download the firmware from the below URL:
http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDG2000X-P21R2.rar (http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDG2000X-P21R2.rar)

    The new firmware details:
-------------------------------------------
1. Added Waveform Combination function, to support combining CH1 and CH2 from internal to generate complex signals such as sine + noise and two-tone. The set path: Utility | Output Setup | Wave Combine
2. Added mode selection: “Phase-Locked”and “Independent”. In “Phase-Locked” mode the generator resets both channels every time the frequency is changed to maintain synchronization automatically.
In “Independent”mode the generator will not reset any channel when the frequency is changed; the phase difference between channels is random. The set path: Utility | mode
3. Fixed several bugs
        a) Can not remove files with illegal characters
        b) In burst mode, press the soft key for cycles, it changes to infinite right off the bat
        c) External modulation input inverted compared to convention
        d) Can not remember the clock source setting
        e) Some unexpected glitches when enabling the output or change the parameters

Thank you Siglent! This sounds like a great update. Adding a very nice new feature that I hadn't specifically heard anyone ask for and making several changes that I have seen people asking for. Very good indication that you are paying attention to us. Clearly you are listening to your users.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on June 18, 2016, 05:51:01 am
Lots of good fixes there - can't wait to get it installed!
Some of those fixes ^^^are no doubt from your efforts.  :-+
Thanks.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: pascal_sweden on June 18, 2016, 06:00:48 am
Dear Siglent! Thanks for the good work!

What about the fix for no interpolation on SDG2042X between the last and first sample in a recurring DDS waveform.

Could this be fixed in the next firmware update? :)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: JohnG on June 18, 2016, 07:45:15 am
Installed new firmware, no problems so far.

Thanks very much for keeping this up to date. The output sync and the bug fixes are very helpful to me, much appreciated. Based on my experience and this kind of support, my employer now has 4 of these generators, and is has purchased some additional equipment as well. Please pass this along to the powers that be at Siglent, because I would like this kind of support to continue.

John
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: alank2 on June 18, 2016, 08:02:07 am
Updated mine without issue.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: CustomEngineerer on June 18, 2016, 08:19:07 am
Dear Siglent! Thanks for the good work!

What about the fix for no interpolation on SDG2042X between the last and first sample in a recurring DDS waveform.

Could this be fixed in the next firmware update? :)

I'm still not sure that this is a bug, it could be working as designed for whatever reason. Has anyone actually reported this to Siglent as a bug? If so, what was their response?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bson on June 18, 2016, 12:25:05 pm
        d) Can not remember the clock source setting
Still not seeing this fixed... I plug in the external standard, set the clock to external, power cycle, and it comes back up with the source set to internal.  So still need to reach in behind the instrument to unplug it each time I power off the instrument. :(

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: CustomEngineerer on June 18, 2016, 12:33:24 pm
Dear Siglent! Thanks for the good work!

What about the fix for no interpolation on SDG2042X between the last and first sample in a recurring DDS waveform.

Could this be fixed in the next firmware update? :)

Alank2 gives a good explanation of how believes the the SDG2000X to behave in DDS mode earlier in this thread. See

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/msg794951/#msg794951 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/msg794951/#msg794951)

If he is correct, and what he says seems to make sense with what I have seen, then the non interpolation between the first and last sample would seem to make sense. Though without asking Siglent I don't think we can know for sure if its a bug or doing what it supposed to.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: CustomEngineerer on June 18, 2016, 04:35:06 pm
I updated the firmware with no issues. Also wanted to add, the new helpful displays when enabling/setting the new combine waveform output and phase locked mode are very helpful and very nicely done. Good job Siglent!
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: CustomEngineerer on June 18, 2016, 04:42:31 pm
Heads up for those of you that have hacked your SDG2000X, Siglent have added a username/password required for logging in through telnet potentially closing the hole. If you have already hacked it before the update you are probably fine, but I couldn't say for sure as mine wasn't hacked.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on June 18, 2016, 04:59:12 pm
Heads up for those of you that have hacked your SDG2000X, Siglent have added a username/password required for logging in through telnet potentially closing the hole. If you have already hacked it before the update you are probably fine, but I couldn't say for sure as mine wasn't hacked.
Thanks for the "heads up".  :scared:

Just checked to see if member analogNewbie who found the hole is still an active member and yes he was online yesterday.

Let's see if he spots this FW improvement
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: CustomEngineerer on June 18, 2016, 05:04:17 pm
Good news for those of you who have hacked your generators. You can easily downgrade to the previous firmware version and the telnet username/password restriction is gone. So its definitely not completely closed for good. I have no idea if you hack it before upgrading to the newest firmware if it remains hacked, sorry.

Edit: new text below

For me the new features added in the most recent firmware are definitely worth it.

Rob, have you heard anything about Siglent every actually selling the bandwidth upgrades? I currently have no use for >40MHz, but if I ever get to that point that was something I was hoping would finally be available. And it seems like with each new firmware Siglent attempts to close the hacking hole, at least partially, so hacking may not be an option at that time. Though I would be perfectly happy paying for the extra bandwidth, just not a completely new generator to get it.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: TheSteve on June 18, 2016, 05:39:42 pm
Can the firmware be unpacked manually so we can see the passwd and shadow files? Would be fun to see how long a password cracker would take.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: CustomEngineerer on June 18, 2016, 07:11:35 pm
I had a similar thought earlier and grabbed the passwd and shadow files from the previous firmware and tried running John the Ripper against them but its been so long since I have used John or anything like it that I'm probably not really doing it the correct way. The couple of ways I tried it produced no results.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on June 18, 2016, 08:48:46 pm
Rob, have you heard anything about Siglent every actually selling the bandwidth upgrades? I currently have no use for >40MHz, but if I ever get to that point that was something I was hoping would finally be available. And it seems like with each new firmware Siglent attempts to close the hacking hole, at least partially, so hacking may not be an option at that time. Though I would be perfectly happy paying for the extra bandwidth, just not a completely new generator to get it.
Nothing at all, not even a mention in my pricelists. All I have been told is BW upgrade functionality had slowly been added to all ranges in case it was prudent to offer it as a saleable option in the future.
My guess is when there's enough units in the field and enough inquiry/demand for upgrades they'll enable/offer them.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: gby on June 18, 2016, 09:31:23 pm
I have given this update a workout for a few hours.  So far the new functions, bug fixes are great and I have not noticed any new issues.  This version fixed a number of issues for us when using the two channels at the same frequency.  Nice smooth output waveforms when changing frequency now!

Overall a great update.  Thank you Siglent.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: CustomEngineerer on June 19, 2016, 03:29:04 am
Nothing at all, not even a mention in my pricelists. All I have been told is BW upgrade functionality had slowly been added to all ranges in case it was prudent to offer it as a saleable option in the future.
My guess is when there's enough units in the field and enough inquiry/demand for upgrades they'll enable/offer them.

Thanks for the info. Just seems odd that they have the capability but don't seem interested in making any money off of it. Not that I needed it now anyway, so definitely not complaining.

As far as adding a username/password to the telnet login, of course it would appear that they are trying to prevent the free upgrades, though it could just be Siglent trying to make the generators more secure. Its not a good idea to have a completely open way to remote into a machine. Most people would know that you shouldn't have your test equipment hooked up to a public facing network, but I'm sure with how many people are buying these that not everybody takes those precautions, so whatever you can to do make it harder for someone else to take over your generator, the better.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: CustomEngineerer on June 19, 2016, 04:55:23 pm
I figured that since there is no guarantee that the bandwidth upgrades will ever be for sell, and since Siglent is almost certainly trying to close up the holes that allow the free bandwidth upgrades (moving license file to a read only mounted drive with the previous firmware update, and adding telnet username/password with the current firmware update), that it was probably a good idea to go ahead and perform the hack now. I can confirm that updating to the new firmware with the hack already in place does work. I followed the guide from ghulands, though one issue I noticed after I had done the hack. Step 7 & 8 say

7. Use the down arrow to navigate to the line which has '<license><bandwidth_update_license>xxxx</bandwidth_update_license></license>'
8. Press dd to delete the line. Press ESC. Type :wq then hit enter (write quit)

Everyone else's file may not be like mine (though probably is). The line in my file looked like

<license><bandwidth_update_license>xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx</bandwidth_update_license></license></system_information>

So when I deleted this line, I was also deleting the closing </system_information> tag, causing the generator to report my serial number as the default serial number instead of the correct serial number. I ended up restoring my original file, then deleted the whole line up to but not including the system_information closing tag, so that line in my NSP_system_info.xml ended up just being

</system_information>

Then when I checked my serial number in the Utilitly->System Info the correct serial number showed for my generator.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: CustomEngineerer on June 19, 2016, 05:35:43 pm
Found another bug.  Set the output to a 5dBm sine wave.  Use the dial to reduce it in 1dBm steps.  It won't go negative.
Set the output to -5dBm.  Turn the dial to go positive.  It won't let you turn it back down to -5dBm again.  Once negative you can go up and down, but it refuses to cross 0dBm going downwards.

I never tested this one before the update (have no reason to doubt you), but just tried it after updating to the new firmware and it is fixed.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on June 19, 2016, 05:44:23 pm
Found another bug.  Set the output to a 5dBm sine wave.  Use the dial to reduce it in 1dBm steps.  It won't go negative.
Set the output to -5dBm.  Turn the dial to go positive.  It won't let you turn it back down to -5dBm again.  Once negative you can go up and down, but it refuses to cross 0dBm going downwards.

I never tested this one before the update (have no reason to doubt you), but just tried it after updating to the new firmware and it is fixed.
Holy hell.  O0
I only reported it on the 2nd of June after I confirmed for myself there was indeed a problem.  :clap:


Any outstanding bug fixes needed guys?
Sorry can't promise any fixes that fast again, they must've been in the middle of this new FW or it'd been reported from elsewhere.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: CustomEngineerer on June 19, 2016, 06:08:29 pm
Thats probably the case, this firmware has been in development for a while, but still great that they were able to get this fix in that quickly.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: MasterTech on June 20, 2016, 12:56:12 am
Update done, no problems. Really useful "Wave Combine" menu is available now
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bson on June 20, 2016, 08:40:46 am
Update done, no problems. Really useful "Wave Combine" menu is available now
Yeah, that's really neat!
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: billfernandez on June 20, 2016, 08:59:08 am
That Wave Combine feature looks pretty neat.

I thin that if I didn't follow this thread I'd never learn about all the new things Siglent sneaks into each firmware update.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Siglent America on June 20, 2016, 10:38:59 pm
Installed new firmware, no problems so far.

Thanks very much for keeping this up to date. The output sync and the bug fixes are very helpful to me, much appreciated. Based on my experience and this kind of support, my employer now has 4 of these generators, and is has purchased some additional equipment as well. Please pass this along to the powers that be at Siglent, because I would like this kind of support to continue.

John


Hi John.
We appreciate your comments. I forwarded them to the product manager and VP of Engineering at the factory.
Steve
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: CustomEngineerer on June 21, 2016, 02:37:27 pm
Had a little time to play around with the new Wave Combine functionality. Very nice touch, if you have one channel output the combined waveform of CH1 + CH2, the other channel can put out its original uncombined waveform or the combined waveform like the first channel.

For the following screenshots, channel 1 is set up as a 1MHz, 1Vpp square wave, channel 2 is 1MHz, 1Vpp sine wave.

CH1 Switch = CH1 + CH2

DS2_QuickPrint1.png - Wave Combine turned off
CH1 Switch = CH1
CH2 Switch = CH2
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=235031;image)

DS2_QuickPrint2.png - Channel 1 outputting combined waveform, channel 2 outputting original
CH1 Switch = CH1 + CH2
CH2 Switch = CH2
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=235033)

DS2_QuickPrint3.png - Channel 1 outputting original waveform, channel 2 outputting combined
CH1 Switch = CH1
CH2 Switch = CH1 + CH2
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=235035)

DS2_QuickPrint4.png - Both channel 1 and channel 2 outputting combined waveform
CH1 Switch = CH1 + CH2
CH2 Switch = CH1 + CH2
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=235037)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: buyman on June 24, 2016, 04:04:23 am
Just a quick question: basically the hack is working until P21R2 from one week ago?

I do not really need a signal generator, but if I buy one know I'd rather stick with one which is "upgradable" and the ones available know, e.g. at Batronix should still have the old firmware(s).
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on June 24, 2016, 06:09:10 am
Welcome to the forum.

Any dealers that have existing stock more than likely they will have older FW so you should be able to buy with confidence, this thread will get updates to your hack question in the next week or so, best you keep an eye on it.  ;)

Edit
Some analysis of the new FW is happening.  ;)
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ads-firmware-file-format/msg968465/#msg968465 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ads-firmware-file-format/msg968465/#msg968465)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: highwayman on June 24, 2016, 12:12:30 pm
Just a quick question: basically the hack is working until P21R2 from one week ago?

I think that most others mileage may vary, but I cannot telnet thru PuTTY or Linux after upgrading to P17R5 months ago.  I have a username/password at the PuTTY telnet login.  Or no viable connection in Linux.  Good luck!
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: kmike on June 24, 2016, 10:00:19 pm
Just a quick question: basically the hack is working until P21R2 from one week ago?

I think that most others mileage may vary, but I cannot telnet thru PuTTY or Linux after upgrading to P17R5 months ago.  I have a username/password at the PuTTY telnet login.  Or no viable connection in Linux.  Good luck!

If You dont mind taking the generator apart, the upgrade is still possible using the serial port header on the processor board.
Look in the other thread mentioned above, I have posted the pinout there.

br,
mike
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: janekivi on June 25, 2016, 02:37:17 am
SDG2042X has open telnet port with no user name or password required. 

I just connected with Putty.exe to the network IP address on port 23 and got right in with no request for a user name or password.
So, I had a look around to see how the system was configured.  No surprise it is Linux based running on an ARM 7 CPU.
It was a bit of a surprise to see the log on message say "SDG800 project" which tells me that the SDG2000 FW is based on the
SDG800 FW in some way. 

Turns out they all based on SDG800
Title: Isolated outputs update
Post by: Timpert on June 25, 2016, 09:02:48 pm
Hi all,

Here's an update on my attempts to isolate the generator's outputs from ground. The basic idea is to make an add-on board that contains signal isolators between CPU and generator board, and to float the power supply by adding a DC DC converter to power the CPU board. The generator board can then be floated. I have finished the feasibility research (I told you the progress was going to be slow), but before I share the conclusion, here are the criteria that I had written down for myself before I started.


I have probed all the signals on the little flat flex that connects the CPU board to the signal generator board, and here's what I found:


Miscellaneous things I needed to find out:


Making a neat board containing the signal isolators and CPU power isolated dc/dc converter appears entirely doable to me. The BNCs can be isolated from chassis by replacing them with plastic ones (there should be drop-in replacements for them) or by using washers. The last point in this list is a potential deal breaker, because it requires an irreversible mod to the chassis though, and one that has the potential to end up ugly. Strictly speaking, it can not be done in a way that satisfies my criteria. If anyone has an alternative idea, please share.

At the moment, the project is on hold, because the CPU died right after a firmware upgrade. I don't know how it happened, it looks like a nasty ESD event, but I use all the usual precautions against that. The firmware upgrade went according to the book, I played around with the neat new features for a while after the upgrade was finished, but when I pulled out the USB stick, the generator crashed. After power cycling it remained dead. The CPU's power supply IC gets rather hot, and the CPU seems to be completely dead. None of the I/O lines show any activity, including the lines that control access to the onboard flash. So the failure to boot is not due to flash corruption, it already comes before that. The LCD backlight supply stays off due to this, because the CPU must turn it on. I bought the generator from Elektor (it was on offer a while ago), so I am awaiting their response before attempting a repair myself. I know that I probably have voided all my warranty rights by opening the generator and probing around in it, but let's wait and see.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on June 25, 2016, 09:19:13 pm
@Timpert
Nice analysis.  :-+

Sorry to hear of your mishap, all I can for you say is bugger.

WRT your isolation mod, did you consider a plugin module with BNC bulkhead females spaced to connect directly to the generators outputs, be powered from the USB and provide isolation to BNC males on the other side of the module.

Much in the same way the Siglent ISFE is constructed, although it uses F-F BNC adapters.

(http://www.siglentamerica.com/Uploadfile/image/20140727/20140727224728_1823.png)

http://www.siglentamerica.com/prodcut-fjxx.aspx?fjid=404&id=4688&tid=1&T=2 (http://www.siglentamerica.com/prodcut-fjxx.aspx?fjid=404&id=4688&tid=1&T=2)
These are for DSO input isolation and have 200:1 attenuation therefore not suitable for AWG outputs.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Timpert on June 25, 2016, 10:04:06 pm
@ Tautech,

Yes, I did consider making an external add-on to provide analog isolation. But it would probably be more expensive than adding isolation between CPU and GEN boards, and it would also degrade signal quality. 40 MHz is quite a tall order for such a thing... It seems to me as counterproductive to buy a generator for its good signal quality, and then degrade it with an add-on.

Quote
all I can for you say is bugger

Thanks for the comforting words.  ;)

I actually expect Elektor to deny me any warranty rights, I would have done the same in their position. Fair enough, that's a risk I took when pulling off the shiny Siglent sticker. But I won't know for sure until I have asked, maybe they're cool...

When I get a "njet" from them, I think I'll first try to replace the CPU as an exciting BGA replacement exercise, and if that doesn't work, I'll just have to swap the entire CPU board for a new one. Any idea where I could get one?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: 11Bravo49417 on June 26, 2016, 02:15:53 am
I wish to purchase one of the older "hackable" versions of this unit from Saelig (or other distributor).  How do I ensure the firmware is old enough on the unit I am purchasing?  Also, how do I get the distributors EEVBlog discount code? 
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: MasterTech on June 26, 2016, 02:25:58 am
I wish to purchase one of the older "hackable" versions of this unit from Saelig (or other distributor).  How do I ensure the firmware is old enough on the unit I am purchasing?  Also, how do I get the distributors EEVBlog discount code?
I dont see wheres the problem, since version 21R2 is downgradable to 17R5 which has the open ethernet port, at least mine did
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: CustomEngineerer on June 26, 2016, 02:50:05 am
I have also been able to upgrade to 21R2 and downgrade back to 17R5 at will. But since the new 21R2 firmware just came out last week, I seriously doubt many suppliers are even shipping them with 21R2 yet.

For the discounts, if you want to buy from Saelig, they have a thread on this forum where they first announced they would honor the eevblog discount, its usually never more than a page or two back. Just post in it that you are looking to purchase something from them and someone will PM you the discount code. Tequipment also has a similar thread if you are looking at ordering from them.

Edit: You could also just ask them what version firmware is on the ones they are selling before you place your order. Though again, version shouldn't really matter.

Edit2: Tequipment no longer carries Siglent gear (thanks for reminder Tautech). Though they do still offer an eevblog discount for the things they actually sell.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on June 26, 2016, 05:53:14 am
@ Tautech,

Yes, I did consider making an external add-on to provide analog isolation. But it would probably be more expensive than adding isolation between CPU and GEN boards, and it would also degrade signal quality. 40 MHz is quite a tall order for such a thing... It seems to me as counterproductive to buy a generator for its good signal quality, and then degrade it with an add-on.
I quite understand and after reading your analysis of inserting the isolation within the generator I only suggested it as a alternative option. The ISFE weighs so little that it just hangs from the BNC's of a DSO and while there is some wobble used with care might be better than a standalone isolator that need be cable connected.


Quote
......I'll just have to swap the entire CPU board for a new one. Any idea where I could get one?
Your supplier should be able to source you one from the factory as a spare part.
Member Lightages blew his SDG1000 AWG main PCB and contacted Siglent and sourced a replacement PCB no problems.
Ensure any contact with Siglent reveals you're an EEVblog member....maybe use the links to contact them in the Siglent Support thread.  ;)

Good luck and keep us in the loop.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on June 26, 2016, 06:00:36 am
Tequipment also has a similar thread if you are looking at ordering from them.
TE is no longer stocking Siglent, Saelig is the preferred online seller for Siglent now.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/equipment-discounts-from-saelig/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/equipment-discounts-from-saelig/)

All of the 3 official Siglent websites have the list of authorised sellers and their contact details
http://www.siglentamerica.com/how_to_buy (http://www.siglentamerica.com/how_to_buy)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on June 26, 2016, 06:49:13 am
@ Tautech,

Yes, I did consider making an external add-on to provide analog isolation. But it would probably be more expensive than adding isolation between CPU and GEN boards, and it would also degrade signal quality. 40 MHz is quite a tall order for such a thing... It seems to me as counterproductive to buy a generator for its good signal quality, and then degrade it with an add-on.
Further thoughts
The SDG5000 series AWG's have isolated outputs in case you weren't aware and Dave did a teardown of these, they have up to 160 MHz Sine capability (SDG5162).
There may be some clues as to how Siglent accomplished the isolation in the vid.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: CustomEngineerer on June 26, 2016, 07:12:05 am
TE is no longer stocking Siglent, Saelig is the preferred online seller for Siglent now.

Wow, I know I know that, but clearly wasn't thinking (  :=\ <- me when posting). Thanks for the correction, I will add a note to my previous message.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Timpert on June 26, 2016, 04:46:35 pm
@ Tautech
Quote
The SDG5000 series AWG's have isolated outputs
The scheme that I propose is the same as used in the SDG5000 and in the SDM3055. The SDM3055 uses the same CPU board as the SDG2000X. In both devices, the CPU is grounded, while the signal processor boards float. The isolators are at the edge of the signal boards, directly connected to the interface from the CPU. It is the most convenient spot to place the isolation barrier, and the two board construction of the SDG2000X makes it possible to place an isolation board in that device too. If it had the single board construction of the SDG1000, it wouldn't be doable.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: UNI-T_goodANDbad_FACTS on June 30, 2016, 07:19:05 am
Hi guys,

I followed the Guide for dummies from this thread and it works smooth! More good news: at least two ships are
on the way to Hamburg with hack-able generators on board :D

I made video of the whole hack, was very easy. Very happy with my 120MHz now!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HcggjLN1LE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HcggjLN1LE)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: cio74 on July 01, 2016, 08:13:51 am
Do you need 120MHz?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: alank2 on July 01, 2016, 09:31:39 am
You don't even need to risk hacking it to get 120 MHz.  Just make an arbitrary wave that is 10 sinewaves and set it to 12 MHz.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: pascal_sweden on July 01, 2016, 09:37:51 am
Is there any video tutorial about this?
This has to be hard-coded for each specific frequency right?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: alank2 on July 01, 2016, 10:12:47 am
Is there any video tutorial about this?

The file is enclosed.  Just load it into the arb mode (the CSV file extracted from the ZIP)

This has to be hard-coded for each specific frequency right?

No.  The file itself just has a number of points.  You set the frequency on the unit to 1/10th of the frequency you desire.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: CustomEngineerer on July 01, 2016, 10:15:22 am
You don't even need to risk hacking it to get 120 MHz.  Just make an arbitrary wave that is 10 sinewaves and set it to 12 MHz.

I've heard several people say that but I haven't seen anyone show results from actually doing it? How does the performance of an arbitrary waveform generated that way compare to the 120MHz builtin sine wave? I would think you would have a lot more jitter on the arb version.

Edit: Just asking because I've never seen anyone actually try it. Its certainly possible someone else has (and it was all good) and I just haven't seen it.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: alank2 on July 01, 2016, 10:18:50 am
In addition to the 2.5k points version, here is the 160k points version.

I've never tested them other than looking at them on a scope.  Perhaps someone else can do some testing and see how they compare.  You can go higher than 120 MHz, but the amplitude decreases sharply.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on July 01, 2016, 10:43:44 am
rf-loop has described obtaining the max frequency from the SDG1000 series also by using this same Arb method.

IIRC it's early in the SDG1000 and 800 thread.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: CustomEngineerer on July 01, 2016, 05:25:23 pm
In addition to the 2.5k points version, here is the 160k points version.

I've never tested them other than looking at them on a scope.  Perhaps someone else can do some testing and see how they compare.  You can go higher than 120 MHz, but the amplitude decreases sharply.

Thanks. I will try playing around with it when i get some time. I've never had much luck getting decent waveforms with EasyWave software, though this is probably due to not enough time learning how to use it correctly (or even thinking the problem through like I should have). The first time someone had suggested doing similar I tried a couple of times, but just ended up with crap results. I seem to remember thinking to be able to get to 120MHz I would need to use as few of points as possible (this is what I get for not taking the time to do the calculations). Seeing how many points are in those arb files though makes sense. DDS has a fixed clock, so as long as the waveform has 6 cycles at 20MHz, it should come out to 120MHz, and the more points (up to a limit) the smoother the output should look. I wanna say I had attempted it with under 100 pts, and had probably been playing around with TrueArb mode before hand and just had the less points thing stuck in my head  :palm:
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: CustomEngineerer on July 01, 2016, 05:51:03 pm
I had to give it a try before going to bed. Ran the 2.5K arb version on ch1 at 10MHz (so 120MHz output) and used the builtin sine on ch2 at 120MHz. Put both on the scope at the same time, overlapping one on the other and they line up perfectly. No drifting, both looked clean. I don't have the equipment to do any serious analysis of the waveforms, but using the arb method appears to be a valid replacement for using the builtin sine.

Thanks for the info.

Edit: I found why I was thinking an arb version wouldn't be as clean as the built-in waveform. From an Agilent doc, Measurement Tips: Comparing Function Generator Performance: Direct Digital Synthesis Versus Point-by-Point Technology
http://cp.literature.agilent.com/litweb/pdf/5990-7460EN.pdf (http://cp.literature.agilent.com/litweb/pdf/5990-7460EN.pdf)

On the third page there is a "Measurement Tip" that states
Quote
If you are using a DDS arbitrary waveform generator such as the Agilent 33220A and you want to create a square wave or pulse function, for the best performance, use the built-in waveform instead of creating the waveform yourself with the arb function. The built-in square and pulse waveform generation techniques are different from the standard DDS technique. Agilent has carefully chosen these techniques to eliminate distortion due to aliasing at higher frequencies.

Of course thats talking about Agilent generators and square/pulse waveforms, so does not apply to a sine wave generated on a Siglent generator  :palm:
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bson on July 01, 2016, 07:06:53 pm
Here are the two csv files, viewed on the Signal Hound running off a Thunderbolt for reference.  The SDG2122X is using is internal clock source.

2.5k

(http://www.rockgarden.net/download/eevblog/sine_2.5k_10x.png)

160k

(http://www.rockgarden.net/download/eevblog/sine_160k_10x.png)

No real difference to speak of.  (I centered the second one on the peak, but forgot to do so on the first.)

Output is 250mV 200mV pp, 50ohm... ARB mode doesn't appear to allow specifying the output level in dBm.  :-//
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bson on July 01, 2016, 07:16:44 pm
Here's the internal one, using the sine waveform.  Looks a little cleaner.  Again, I forgot to center it on the peak... getting late.  :palm:

(http://www.rockgarden.net/download/eevblog/sine_120m_builtin.png)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: cio74 on July 02, 2016, 12:19:00 am
Apologies for the off topic, which Signal Hound SA do you have?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bson on July 02, 2016, 04:03:54 am
Apologies for the off topic, which Signal Hound SA do you have?
SA44B
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: cio74 on July 02, 2016, 04:43:48 am
Apologies for the off topic, which Signal Hound SA do you have?
SA44B

I am looking at the combo with the TG44A, quite the price of the Siglent SA but it looks to have more features.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bson on July 02, 2016, 09:15:00 am
I am looking at the combo with the TG44A, quite the price of the Siglent SA but it looks to have more features.
I got the TG44 to go with it, but frankly it's exceedingly limited.  I wouldn't bother and instead put the money towards a used VNA.

Some limitations:
* Can't do log sweeps
* Spike can't display magnitude in V
* It's possible to rig it to measure the reflection coeff, but it can't for instance measure reverse isolation which makes it very difficult say to calculate the input impedance for a specific load
* It's only scalar - so can't be used for impedance matching (can't determine its conjugate impedance)

Just get a 2-port VNA that can measure S params both ways and provides phase information...

Edit: oh, and I forgot to mention the TG or Spike doesn't seem to have an amplitude control for the TG; changing the amplitude requires external pads.  Hence it obviously won't do an amplitude sweep... which in turn means it can't calculate the IP3 or such.  It's very, very, very super basic to the point of not being worth the bother.

The SA44B is great to look at signals though, although its FFT span is only 250kHz.  (The BB60 steps up to I think 27MHz in this regard, so you can sit and watch and record frequency hopping in the time domain!)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: McBryce on July 06, 2016, 05:20:08 am
Hi all,
     I got an SDG2042X today. Upgraded it to 120MHz and then upgraded the Firmware. There's now a small lock symbol with a "P" to the left of the network symbol. Can anyone tell me what this means. I don't think it was there before I upgraded the firmware.

McBryce.

Edit: Forget the question. It shows that the phase lock is on :) Btw. I can also confirm that the "liberated clock" remains after a firmware upgrade.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Timpert on July 06, 2016, 06:08:14 am
To see if I could do it, I tried to replace the CPU on my broken CPU board. At least now I know that this was a bit beyond my soldering skills. But anyway, since I had voided my warranty because I probed around inside my device, I thought I'd probe around a bit more. More specifically, I probed the SYSBOOT[15:0] pins when I had the CPU off the board. These determine the boot order amongst other things. Normally, the boot order is NAND, NANDI2C, MMC0 (which is the on board SD card), UART0 (which is the UART board on the short edge of the board. With jumper J16 installed, this changes into UART0, XIP (not present, so it is skipped), MMC0, NAND. So with J16 installed, you could probably boot one of the many available Linux images that run on the Sitara processor from the SD card...

Still trying to get a replacement CPU board though. It appears to be difficult.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on July 06, 2016, 06:45:34 am
........

Still trying to get a replacement CPU board though. It appears to be difficult.
How so?
Your supplier should be able to source one.  :-//

Let me know if I can help.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Timpert on July 06, 2016, 07:11:32 am
Well, my original supplier (Elektor) simply isn't answering my request, so I contacted a Dutch Siglent dealer, and they are now trying to get a quote for a new CPU board from Siglent. But apparently, a request like mine happens very rarely, and so getting Siglent to fish a replacement board out of their logistics chain and put a price on it is going to take some time. But they're working on it. The only thing I can do now is be patient. And I am as good at that as I am good at BGA rework...
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on July 06, 2016, 07:49:48 am
Well, my original supplier (Elektor) simply isn't answering my request, so I contacted a Dutch Siglent dealer, and they are now trying to get a quote for a new CPU board from Siglent.  But they're working on it. 
If needed you can contact Siglent in Hamburg directly, explain Elektor has not been timely in offering support and/or point them to EEVblog (thread or post) to seek assistance.
As I've mentioned member Lightages had little trouble sourcing a replacement PCB for his SDG1k series AWG.
http://www.siglenteu.com/lxwms.aspx?id=1110 (http://www.siglenteu.com/lxwms.aspx?id=1110)

Quote
But apparently, a request like mine happens very rarely, and so getting Siglent to fish a replacement board out of their logistics chain and put a price on it is going to take some time.
:bullshit:

Quote
The only thing I can do now is be patient.
:-+
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Timpert on July 06, 2016, 09:52:44 pm
Just today I got the message that Siglent will repair the generator for me, I have to send it to them. The price is very reasonable, and I want a working generator, so I'll do it. Kudos go to eleshop.nl for picking up the after sales service!
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: McBryce on July 14, 2016, 06:22:17 pm
Hi all,
     finally got some time to properly try out most of the features of my new SDG2042X last night and came across something strange:

If I choose a square wave at 25MHz I get a 25MHz wave with a rise time of 8.2ns (pretty much what the datasheet implies - 9ns). However, if I now press the sweep button and leave the parameters at "sweep start" 25MHz and "sweep end" at 25MHz, the unit is now outputing a much nicer 25MHz square wave with a 3.0ns rise time??

Can anyone else confirm this on their unit?

McBryce.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: alank2 on July 14, 2016, 11:03:58 pm
I can confirm this - and I have pointed it out to Siglent.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: McBryce on July 14, 2016, 11:09:41 pm
So it's a bug that improves performance?? So why can't it just do square waves with a rise time of 3ns all of the time?

McBryce.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: alank2 on July 14, 2016, 11:14:54 pm
So it's a bug that improves performance?? So why can't it just do square waves with a rise time of 3ns all of the time?
McBryce.

Apparently - I assume there is an issue where the IC used to generate the waveform simply performs a little better when in "sweep" mode.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: MasterTech on July 15, 2016, 12:12:30 am
So it's a bug that improves performance?? So why can't it just do square waves with a rise time of 3ns all of the time?
McBryce.

Apparently - I assume there is an issue where the IC used to generate the waveform simply performs a little better when in "sweep" mode.

Not sure about that. The spec of 8.4ns applies for Arb mode. In DDS mode I can get rise times of 4.5ns, maybe the sweep mode uses this mode...
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: McBryce on July 15, 2016, 06:01:08 am
Exactly. So why aren't they using the DDS mode to create the square wave signals all of the time?

McBryce.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on July 15, 2016, 06:36:56 am
Exactly. So why aren't they using the DDS mode to create the square wave signals all of the time?

McBryce.
IMO the answer is signal fidelity.
We all know the faster you drive signals the harder it is to maintain good fidelity.
If it was not a SG it would not matter too much about signal shape.

Re-read the website claims and tell me I'm wrong.
http://www.siglentamerica.com/pdxx.aspx?id=1364&T=2&tid=16 (http://www.siglentamerica.com/pdxx.aspx?id=1364&T=2&tid=16)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: jjoonathan on July 15, 2016, 09:04:43 am
Here is the superposition of 20,21,22,23,24,25MHz square waves with SWP=off (yellow) and SWP=on (pink).

https://postimg.org/image/3y5qq3kef/

Evidently in the current implementation you can have sharp edges or the much-ballyhooed smooth control over width, but not both.

EDIT: the "quantum" of distance between the purple edges is t?3.38ns, 1/t?300MHz.

EDIT2: I see some ripple on the top of the square wave when I make fine adjustments to the frequency with SWP=off. I also see smoother width increments than I would expect from the 1.2GS/s DAC frequency. Seems they've implemented their constant-width square waves with a digital filter that trades bandwidth for slope positioning rather than by playing with the DAC clock. It also seems that for SWP=on they use their usual arb path rather than a counter that bypasses the interpolater. Ah well.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: pascal_sweden on July 15, 2016, 09:25:25 am
Was that measurement made on a Rigol DS4000 series?

The menu structure looks nicer than the Rigol DS1000Z series :)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: jjoonathan on July 15, 2016, 10:19:31 am
Yep, it's an old (dec 2011) DS4014 hacked up with decodes and 500MHz. I do like the menus and other creature comforts it has over the DS1054Z I got started with (slightly faster UI compositing, dedicated menu hide & scroll buttons on both sides, separate channel offset/scale knobs, auto-scaling probes, 50ohm/ac/bw lights, segmented memory, 50% trig button) but unfortunately the firmware is notably crustier. For the longest time, decodes didn't work in segmented memory, now they *only* work in segmented memory. Older versions had freezing issues, newer versions have herky-jerky scrolling at 1ns/div scale. If I had payed Rigol's asking price for any of the extras, I'd be pissed: Agilent price at a fraction of Agilent quality. Unhacked, it's not really competitive in its price bracket, especially with Agisight getting serious about discount refurbs. My guess is that Rigol wrote it off and is focusing on their next iteration of professional scopes, only keeping it in their catalog so that they can claim experience in the price bracket while selling remaining inventory to the captive audience of the Chinese defense industry.

Hacked, it's pretty good, at least until the fine fellows over in the DSOX thread figure out how to hack a DSOX3014 to a DSOX3104  :popcorn:

EDIT: oh, and ADC3 (pink) is dying -- rail-to-rail noise after a cold startup that goes away as it heats up. I'm not sure whether it's due to a bad bond wire, 3 years of the previous owner running the poor ADCs at 85C without heatsinks, or both, but Rigol wants $1k for the repair. That's fine, I got it for $1k off the sticker price on ebay, and I might even be able to make do with a $130 replacement ADC I got off taobao. It's been an adventure, and that suits me just fine, but it's not what most people are looking for in a professional scope. Look out for a post when ADC3 finally kicks the bucket and I make the swap; regardless of the outcome it's bound to be entertaining.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: alank2 on July 16, 2016, 08:48:33 am
Rigol once told me that their out of warranty repair was:

>Our out-of-warranty repair prices are quite reasonable. It is $250 or 10% of the purchase price, whichever is greater..
>plus shipping to/from our repair office in Cleveland, OH.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: gby on July 16, 2016, 09:54:04 pm
Hi all,
     finally got some time to properly try out most of the features of my new SDG2042X last night and came across something strange:

If I choose a square wave at 25MHz I get a 25MHz wave with a rise time of 8.2ns (pretty much what the datasheet implies - 9ns). However, if I now press the sweep button and leave the parameters at "sweep start" 25MHz and "sweep end" at 25MHz, the unit is now outputing a much nicer 25MHz square wave with a 3.0ns rise time??

Can anyone else confirm this on their unit?

McBryce.

This is a known quirk of this signal generator.   Please my post #94 from January this year that explains how this difference in square wave rise time occurs.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/msg834806/#msg834806 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/msg834806/#msg834806)

The real question is what is the logic behind Siglent's choices for when the Analog Devices D/A internal interpolator is turned on (lower rise times) and when it is turned off (output steps to new sample for faster rise time)??  As I noted in my earlier post it might be nice if Siglent added to the FW to be able to turn the D/A chip interpolator on/off.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: jjoonathan on July 16, 2016, 10:20:00 pm
Rigol once told me that their out of warranty repair was:

>Our out-of-warranty repair prices are quite reasonable. It is $250 or 10% of the purchase price, whichever is greater..
>plus shipping to/from our repair office in Cleveland, OH.

That's what I thought. I even mentioned that tidbit to them, although at the time I was writing the ticket I thought I was remembering the $250 figure from a webpage somewhere rather than from a post of yours.

Quote
I have an old DS4014, serial DS4A1350----, purchased used from testbox, which I suspect is out of warranty. Channel 3 has rail-to-rail noise for 10-60 seconds after a cold startup. It isn't actually dead but I anticipate it dying soon and want to figure out what my options are so that I can plan ahead. From what I can find on your warranty page, this out-of-warranty repair would cost $250+parts+shipping, is that correct?

Notice how I sneak in "+parts". $250+shipping is around the cost of a replacement ADC but with less risk and is therefore preferable. $250+parts+shipping is not. I'm trying to force the question.

Quote
Hello Jon,

My name is ------------ and I am an Applications Engineer at RIGOL Technologies USA. Thank you for writing in.

Yes. That is out-of-warranty.

It was manufactured in 2011. The warranty likely expired in 2014 or 2015. Without a receipt or invoice, I'd have to go off the serial number for the active warranty dates.

Out-of-warranty repair for the DS4014 is $920 plus shipping.

If you would like to continue with the repair, please provide the following information:

- Return shipping address

- Phone number

We also have a clearance section on our website. This area has demo and refurbished equipment that come with 90 day warranties.

https://www.rigolna.com/clearance/ (https://www.rigolna.com/clearance/)

J

I especially like the last bit. "Yup, your device's knockoff chips are dying from years of suffering at 85C under our crappy thermal design, we want to charge you almost as much as the device costs for a repair, would you please consider buying a new one with 1/12th our standard warranty?"

 :-DD

In your dreams, Rigol. In your dreams.

Quote
Thanks for the prompt reply.

Ouch, $920 is steep, but at least it makes the repair/replace decision easy. And frees me to take a swing at the issue myself. Any chance you guys would be willing to sell me a MXT2001 ADC? I'm not going to be in China for the next 5 months or so and they don't stock them on DigiKey.

Cheers,
Jon

No prompt reply (or any reply) this time, of course. Hardly surprising, but they had a second chance to impress me ($250/10% out-of-warranty repairs would have been impressive in my book) and they did not.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: rf-loop on July 17, 2016, 05:33:51 pm
Topic: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: pherdie on July 23, 2016, 01:18:59 pm
Old timer getting back into electronics after 20 years, so please be patient.

I have a 2042X and I have a PE4302 attenuator board from China. I am trying to test drive the serial input with the 2042X and learn a little about both. I am aware the parallel input can also be used to input.

A clocked 10MHZ and a 10MHZ six bit word is required to set the various attenuation levels. I want to be able to generate all six bit binary input permutations required to fully test the device. The best I have done is generate a 10MHZ clock on channel 1 and a six bit 10MHZ pulse train, manually triggered, synced to channel 1 and of sufficient duty cycle to insure a good write when clocked. There appears to be no way to easily modify the individual data bits. Did I miss something here? Is there another method with the 2042x? Does the supplied software have a methodology (Mac here, no Windows and I do know Windows can run on a Mac). It would seem to me (for what it's worth) that creating a data pulse train would be just an ideal use for this wonderful device. I have to be missing something.

I will probably later drive it with something like an Arduino.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on July 24, 2016, 11:07:35 am
Old timer getting back into electronics after 20 years, so please be patient.

I have a 2042X and I have a PE4302 attenuator board from China. I am trying to test drive the serial input with the 2042X and learn a little about both. I am aware the parallel input can also be used to input.

A clocked 10MHZ and a 10MHZ six bit word is required to set the various attenuation levels. I want to be able to generate all six bit binary input permutations required to fully test the device. The best I have done is generate a 10MHZ clock on channel 1 and a six bit 10MHZ pulse train, manually triggered, synced to channel 1 and of sufficient duty cycle to insure a good write when clocked. There appears to be no way to easily modify the individual data bits. Did I miss something here? Is there another method with the 2042x? Does the supplied software have a methodology (Mac here, no Windows and I do know Windows can run on a Mac). It would seem to me (for what it's worth) that creating a data pulse train would be just an ideal use for this wonderful device. I have to be missing something.

I will probably later drive it with something like an Arduino.
Here's some threads with varying clues for you to proceed with:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/video-review-comparison-and-teardown-of-siglent-sdg5162-rigol-dg4162-arbs/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/video-review-comparison-and-teardown-of-siglent-sdg5162-rigol-dg4162-arbs/)
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/digital-signal-generators/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/digital-signal-generators/)
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1025-matlab-programming-arb-waveform/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1025-matlab-programming-arb-waveform/)

Hope those help.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on July 24, 2016, 11:16:04 am
An FFT of a SDG2042X @ 40 MHz FYI

Image borrowed from this thread:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ssa3000x-spectrum-analyzers/msg989007/#msg989007 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ssa3000x-spectrum-analyzers/msg989007/#msg989007)

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ssa3000x-spectrum-analyzers/?action=dlattach;attach=242725)

Pretty good internal reference IMO.  :)


Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: rf-loop on July 24, 2016, 08:34:46 pm
An FFT of a SDG2042X @ 40 MHz FYI

Image borrowed from this thread:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ssa3000x-spectrum-analyzers/msg989007/#msg989007 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ssa3000x-spectrum-analyzers/msg989007/#msg989007)

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ssa3000x-spectrum-analyzers/?action=dlattach;attach=242725)

Pretty good internal reference IMO.  :)

It can think true freq is nearly sure inside  40MHz +/- 40Hz. If image was taken after SSA 30 minute temp stabilization with autocal enabled.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on July 24, 2016, 08:47:30 pm
An FFT of a SDG2042X @ 40 MHz FYI

Image borrowed from this thread:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ssa3000x-spectrum-analyzers/msg989007/#msg989007 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ssa3000x-spectrum-analyzers/msg989007/#msg989007)

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ssa3000x-spectrum-analyzers/?action=dlattach;attach=242725)

Pretty good internal reference IMO.  :)

It can think true freq is nearly sure inside  40MHz +/- 40Hz. If image was taken after SSA 30 minute temp stabilization with autocal enabled.
It certainly was.  :)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: MasterTech on July 25, 2016, 01:34:11 am
I did measure the same, SDG2042x outputting a 40mhz sine using my CTRU which has the OCXO option (0.005ppm drift, last calibrated 2 years ago).....started measuring +3hz and ended at -2hz after some time...
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: janekivi on July 25, 2016, 05:25:53 am
I was turning too all the buttons one day
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: CustomEngineerer on July 25, 2016, 06:23:13 am
Did it actually output at that frequency or did the setting just show that it was set?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: janekivi on July 26, 2016, 01:49:07 am
It output what you limit in one xml there but let's say, their limits is set fear enough.
It won't output something normal over the limits.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Timpert on July 31, 2016, 12:42:53 am
My SDG2042 just arrived back on my doorstep. It was fixed by Siglent for a very reasonable fee (€ 100 excluding VAT). The guys at eleshop.nl have arranged the repair for me, because the original vendor (Elektor) did not follow up on the request for a repair. So that's a big  :-+ for eleshop from me!
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: pascal_sweden on July 31, 2016, 02:02:10 am
Interesting to learn that Elektor provides such a bad service.
Aren't they the one behind the Elektuur magazine (Elektor magazine), which is promoting DIY electronic projects? So not providing support for a repair seems like a contradiction to their entire DIY philoposphy!
Good to know that they are no good! Lesson: Stay away from Elektor and don't buy any stuff from them!
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Timpert on July 31, 2016, 08:01:00 pm
Quote
Lesson: Stay away from Elektor and don't buy any stuff from them!
I would'n put it that harsh. Out of a bunch of publishers in the 80s, they are the only ones who managed to survive while staying in the DIY electronics field. All the other Dutch publishers in this field either left it or quit entirely. They must be doing something right.

They are publishers first and foremost. Their shop has evolved from a service to support their DIY articles (you could buy boards, front panel foils and the occasional piece of unobtanium) in a time when many somewhat specialized parts were really difficult to get. So there was almost no after-sales care required. The shop has always been a side activity to rake in some (currently probably hard needed) extra cash, and in cases like this it shows: when it comes to selling, you'll get the stuff you ordered. They're not the fastest shop on the planet, but they do have interesting offers every now and then which makes it worth the effort to check them out. They're simply not equipped for acting like a proper dealer for goods that might require after sales service. This is not only my conclusion, but others (most notably on Dutch forums such as circuits online and their own forum) draw this conclusion as well.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: pascal_sweden on July 31, 2016, 08:15:41 pm
Fair enough! You have a point!
I was a bit surprised at first sight, but given your explanation I do understand their position.
So please do consider Elektor for your electronic projects, but don't expect the same after sales service as a real distributor. But then again your main focus of buying from Elektor is not T&M test equipment.
Title: Reflection time...
Post by: Timpert on July 31, 2016, 08:33:54 pm
I think this mostly shows how dealers add value: several dealers are active on this forum, and they relay findings and suggestions to Siglent (Tautech and Siglent America spring to mind). I don't think we would have gotten the latest and greatest firmware update without the efforts of these people. Also, they enable your device to get serviced if you break something by accident. I might consider paying for that instead of hunting for the cheapest bargain.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: ian.rees on August 03, 2016, 06:05:54 pm
This evening I was playing around with the busybox install in my new SDG2042X and found out about a really neat feature: If you reboot with a micro SD card inserted, it automatically blows away the flash! |O

Any chance someone might be able to help me restore the flash?  I have some of the files from the 2.01.01.21R2 firmware upgrade including u-boot.img, but don't have the u-boot-spl.bin that the TI docs refer to for doing a UART boot.  I don't (yet) have an adapter to get my JTAG (Bus Blaster) connected.  Thanks in advance!  -Ian-
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on August 03, 2016, 06:48:58 pm
This evening I was playing around with the busybox install in my new SDG2042X and found out about a really neat feature: If you reboot with a micro SD card inserted, it automatically blows away the flash! |O

Any chance someone might be able to help me restore the flash?  I have some of the files from the 2.01.01.21R2 firmware upgrade including u-boot.img, but don't have the u-boot-spl.bin that the TI docs refer to for doing a UART boot.  I don't (yet) have an adapter to get my JTAG (Bus Blaster) connected.  Thanks in advance!  -Ian-
I do not have the files you seek, hopefully another member can extract them out of their unit for you.
Good luck.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: ian.rees on August 03, 2016, 08:57:39 pm
Thanks!  After reading/thinking a bit more; just building U-Boot is probably the way to go.  I have a cross compiling environment for a BeagleBone anyways, seems to be the same family SoC.

Would then need to get the flash layout and a copy of the filesystem from a working unit, plus likely some things I'm not thinking of yet...  Will get there eventually.  -Ian-
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Timpert on August 03, 2016, 10:19:17 pm
Let us know how you manage to recover it... I know that sinking feeling when you realize you just broke your new toy  ;)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: McBryce on August 03, 2016, 11:36:30 pm
Is it possible to connect to a working unit via the LAN port and copy the files across that you need? If so let me know what you need and I do a CP *.* of my unit. It's a 2042X that I've "liberated" up to 120MHz. However, I think I updated the firmware since then, so I may not be able to mount the drive any more.

McBryce.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: billfernandez on August 04, 2016, 12:11:13 am
This evening I was playing around with the busybox install in my new SDG2042X and found out about a really neat feature: If you reboot with a micro SD card inserted, it automatically blows away the flash!

Ian, a few questions:  By BusyBox do you mean the Linux utility suite?  If so, how do you install it on the SDG2042X?  And why?  Also, how/where do you insert a micro SD card?  I only see a USB connector for a flash drive.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: McBryce on August 04, 2016, 01:26:23 am
This evening I was playing around with the busybox install in my new SDG2042X and found out about a really neat feature: If you reboot with a micro SD card inserted, it automatically blows away the flash!

Ian, a few questions:  By BusyBox do you mean the Linux utility suite?  If so, how do you install it on the SDG2042X?  And why?  Also, how/where do you insert a micro SD card?  I only see a USB connector for a flash drive.

Take a look at the teardown video, there's a Micro SD slot on the PCB inside the case.

McBryce.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Timpert on August 04, 2016, 04:36:17 am
In post 472, I described the boot order and how you can change it. Busybox is installed from the factory. If you log into the stock R17 firmware via telnet and you type "busybox", you get a list of available commands. Has anyone tried adding a user before upgrading to R21,  to see if the user still exists after the upgrade?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: janekivi on August 04, 2016, 06:06:54 am
Of course. But all files from update file is updated and your passwd and shadow file
contains only data what there is written from factory.
I'm trying to edit .ads file and replace some files in it...
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: ian.rees on August 04, 2016, 07:03:46 am
Is it possible to connect to a working unit via the LAN port and copy the files across that you need?
Yes, that should be straightforward once there's a terminal and a network connection available.  I'm not too familiar with UBI (the system used for the flash filesystem), so need to figure out how to get the information about the flash layout.  I'll use a BeagleBone as a test platform and put together a set of instructions.

Two questions: What OS is your real computer using?  Does the stock firmware have tar available?  "#tar --version"

By BusyBox do you mean the Linux utility suite?
I think your questions got answered, but thanks for asking!  Somehow, I had it in my mind that BusyBox was a linux distribution, but now can see it's more of a toolset.

Has anyone tried adding a user before upgrading to R21,  to see if the user still exists after the upgrade?
As janekivi wrote, it's not quite that simple because the upgrade process overwrites the relevant configuration files.  But, I think it's not much more complicated.  For instance; if one were to cause the system to not reboot after the upgrade, they might have a good opportunity to add the users ;).  Note that the firmware upgrade script behaves differently when the root filesystem is rw...

Thanks for the notes on the boot order - good to understand.  Unfortunately I didn't read that post and understand the ramifications before popping in a microsSD - ironically, to make a backup.  Mine currently tries to boot over the UART accessible at J9 (can tell because it sends a 'C' a couple times per second).
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on August 04, 2016, 07:09:33 am
Also we have a SDG805 user that is in a similar bind, can anybody help him too:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-sdg1000-and-sdg800-thread/msg996935/#msg996935 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-sdg1000-and-sdg800-thread/msg996935/#msg996935)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: McBryce on August 04, 2016, 10:45:25 pm

Two questions: What OS is your real computer using?  Does the stock firmware have tar available?  "#tar --version"


I have Linux (SuSE 13.something) and/or windows 7 or 10. Not sure about the second question, I didn't check.

McBryce.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: new299 on August 05, 2016, 01:25:39 am
Thanks!  After reading/thinking a bit more; just building U-Boot is probably the way to go.  I have a cross compiling environment for a BeagleBone anyways, seems to be the same family SoC.

Would then need to get the flash layout and a copy of the filesystem from a working unit, plus likely some things I'm not thinking of yet...  Will get there eventually.  -Ian-

I've been trying to do this on the SDG805, but not getting anywhere. I can't seem to get the SPL up and running. I figured it might be useful to summarise what I've done so far though:

The AM335x has a ROM boot loader, this will accept the u-boot spl over UART one (which is exposed on the PCB) using xmodem. There are a few binary builds of the u-boot spl around, from the TI AM335x SDK and elsewhere. However none of them work for me. I suspect that the DDR memory isn't configured correctly.

If you look in the TI SDK the DDR init function read an EEPROM on the TI evaluation board, and beagle bone and set the DDR configuration and power management settings accordingly. I doubt this would work on the Siglent instruments. While they seem to have copied a lot of things from the TI SDK, I kind of expect the EEPROM and DDR config to be different. The sdg800 u-boot does refer to the beagle bone in places though, so it's possible many things are similar.

The DDR memory used on the SDG805 is a k4b1g164gg this is largely similar to a chip that's already in the ddr_config.h (IIRC). TI have a guide to setup new DDR chips in u-boot and I followed that.

I also removed some of the beagle board checks to allow the board to init the TPS65910 power management IC.

There's another thing in there that worries me, which is that on the beaglebone there's a GPIO which enables the DDR memory. I'm guessing there might be something similar on the SDG800s but without knowing which GPIO(s) to toggle it might be though figure it out.

Anyway, none of my current attempts have worked. The spl gets loaded over xmodem and I can see it display it's version header but then it just hangs. You should be able to load the reset of U-boot over Y-modem at this point. I'm back to trying to find a original siglent spl. This would all be a lot easier if Siglent followed the GPL and shared their u-boot changes as they are legally required to do.

Anyway, now I've been trying to extract a copy of the spl from the firmware update packages. No luck so far, but it does look like it's around. I'll post an update if I get anywhere.

Failing any of these options, I'm going to buy another SDG805 anyway. When I get it I'll extract the u-boot spl (and hopefully a complete copy of the rest of the flash) I'll let you know. Before I hosed my system I think I did get a copy of the kernel image, but the FS images I downloaded were corrupt.

I'd hope the SDG800 and SDG2000 are similar enough that binaries will work across both systems.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: janekivi on August 05, 2016, 04:02:08 am
A while ago I did some experiments and add user which was gone, but I'm not a Linux guy.
Update is clearing some of the directories and write new files but can someone add somewhere
couple of commands or script which stay there and add user or something useful?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: new299 on August 05, 2016, 05:11:17 pm
I've been able to recover my SDG805 to u-boot using files another user posted. I believe the same procedure should work for the SDG2042X. My notes are here: http://41j.com/blog/2016/08/sdg800-recovering-from-a-hosed-u-boot/ (http://41j.com/blog/2016/08/sdg800-recovering-from-a-hosed-u-boot/)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: janekivi on August 06, 2016, 07:02:25 am
I'm trying to edit .ads file and replace some files in it...
Got it finally. My user is root and password is... what You think...
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: ian.rees on August 06, 2016, 03:49:23 pm
Got mine recovered!  I think the problem was that the SoC wasn't actually trying to boot off the microSD card (regardless of whether J16 was shorted).  The process I used was:

0) I had copied some files from the upgrade process, before I bricked the signal generator
0+) A helpful person provided the attached uEnv.txt file
1) Strip the first 520 bytes off the MLO file (per new299's post)
2) Format an SD card FAT32, copy uEnv.txt, original MLO, and all other files mentioned in it (the names are after the fatload instructions) to SD card.
3) Get setup to provide the modified MLO and original u-boot.img over UART as described at the end of http://processors.wiki.ti.com/index.php/Linux_Core_U-Boot_User's_Guide#Using_UART (http://processors.wiki.ti.com/index.php/Linux_Core_U-Boot_User's_Guide#Using_UART)
4) Jumper J16 (not sure this was actually necessary)
5) Insert SD card in to signal generator, turn it on
6) Once the modified MLO and u-boot.img have transferred, open up the TTY in a console so you can monitor progress (or I suppose just wait a few minutes)
7) Remove jumper and SD card

As for the source of the files in step 0 - I haven't followed closely, but it sounds like janekivi can extract those from the firmware upgrades now?   -Ian-
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: new299 on August 06, 2016, 04:19:08 pm
Got mine recovered!  I think the problem was that the SoC wasn't actually trying to boot off the microSD card (regardless of whether J16 was shorted).

Congrats ian! I take it you had a copy of the MLO per upgrade? Out of interest does it differ from the SDG800 MLO?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: ian.rees on August 06, 2016, 04:30:07 pm
Yes, it's totally different from the one from the blog post you referenced a few messages back.

I'm a bit leery of playing too much more with mine - seems like something might be screwy with the flash memory as I'm getting UBI errors when I try to remount / as rw now.  The boot loop it was in while I was trying to get it to load off the SD card had it talking to the flash, so I guess it might've worn out part of the memory.  -Ian-
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: new299 on August 06, 2016, 05:08:02 pm
Yes, it's totally different from the one from the blog post you referenced a few messages back.

I'm a bit leery of playing too much more with mine - seems like something might be screwy with the flash memory as I'm getting UBI errors when I try to remount / as rw now.  The boot loop it was in while I was trying to get it to load off the SD card had it talking to the flash, so I guess it might've worn out part of the memory.  -Ian-

Yea, it seems to do a crazy amount of flash erases/rewriting partitions during upgrades as well. Good thing is that the TSOP48 flash chip doesn't look too difficult to replace and we can recover from a clean flash now. :)

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: McBryce on August 30, 2016, 06:45:28 pm
Had a strange one at the weekend with my SDG2042X (latest Firmware). I had it hooked up to a small test circuit I use for designing filters, with the output of the filter (simple LC filter) connected to a scope, terminated with 50ohms at the scope input. The FG was outputing a 1Vp-p 25Mhz square wave 50% Dutycycle (no sweep / offsets or anything else). All worked fine at the start, but after about 10 minutes the trace suddenly disappeared from the scope. The filter was fine, so I connected the FG directly to the scope and the FG output really was gone? I turned off the FG and restarted, but still no trace. Turned off again and waited 10 minutes, then the output was back.
It wasn't warm in the room, so I doubt it was a heat issue, but something resettable inside had decided to switch off. Has anyone else seen this happen?

McBryce.

P.s. The filter was a 20Mhz to 30Mhz bandpass filter, so yes, the signal (most of it) should have been getting through :)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on August 30, 2016, 09:01:38 pm
@ McBryce
I've linked Siglent to your post but it's AHrs in Shenzhen now.

From the manual P125
Overvoltage Protection

If the state is set to ON, overvoltage protection of CH1 and CH2 will take effect once any of the following conditions is met. When overvoltage protection occurs, a message will be displayed and the output is disabled.
 The absolute value of input voltage is higher than 11V±0.5V when the amplitude of the generator is higher than or equal to 3.2Vpp or the DC offset is higher than or equal to |2VDC|.
 The absolute value of input voltage is higher than 4V±0.5V when the amplitude of the generator is lower than 3.2Vpp or the DC offset is lower than |2VDC|.

All I can offer/suggest depends on how your LC filter was configured and then maybe back EMF might have been the culprit.  :-\
Other than that I'm scratching my head as you are.  :-/O
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: McBryce on August 31, 2016, 12:33:55 am
Strange, now that you mention it, it very quickly displayed something about over-voltage when I turned it on (just before the error occurred), but there was nothing connected to either of the outputs at the time, not even a loose cable. Both outputs still worked for about 20 minutes after that.

McBryce.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on August 31, 2016, 08:58:39 pm
@ McBryce
Please keep us informed if there any more problems with this ^^^

If the problem repeats itself you could try disabling the overvoltage protection but it's there to protect the outputs from damage so remember you've done so if the FG outputs are likely to be exposed to any voltages. eg. injecting a test signal into the mid stages of an amplifier etc.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: McBryce on August 31, 2016, 09:46:50 pm
I'll give it a few tests over the next few days and let you know if it re-occurs. Is there a quick "return device to factory default settings" method, so that I can test the device from a know condition?

McBryce.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Siglent America on September 01, 2016, 02:04:55 am
I'll give it a few tests over the next few days and let you know if it re-occurs. Is there a quick "return device to factory default settings" method, so that I can test the device from a know condition?

McBryce.

Hi McBryce.

You can reset the SDG2000X generators to factory default by pressing the "Utility" button then "System" on the menu, then "Set to Default".
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on September 02, 2016, 01:15:09 pm
Anyone have any tricks for this problem?
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sdg2042x-triggering-both-channels-at-the-same-time-in-burst-mode/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sdg2042x-triggering-both-channels-at-the-same-time-in-burst-mode/)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Plasmateur on September 09, 2016, 10:11:17 am
Anyone have any tricks for this problem?
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sdg2042x-triggering-both-channels-at-the-same-time-in-burst-mode/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sdg2042x-triggering-both-channels-at-the-same-time-in-burst-mode/)

Quote from:  Problem
Functionality I need,

CH.1 to burst with X delay @ Y frequency with Z cycles/Burst period

CH.2 to burst with A delay @ B frequency with C cycles/Burst period

Both channels must trigger from the same external/manual trigger

A bit of an update.

Firmware P21R2 fixes the issue of triggering both channels in burst mode from an external trigger.

Triggering both channels from a manual/software trigger remains unresolved. I've talked to Scott and he is relaying my issue to the factory. Hopefully there will be a new firmware update that patches this up.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: kazam on September 13, 2016, 09:44:29 pm
Hi,

I just got my SDG2042X. Updated to latest firmware and seems to work just fine.

When reading the remote command manual I didn't notice any way to upload ARB data via the SCPI commands. Not a nice surprise. Am I missing something?

Is there a workaround?

/K
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Siglent America on September 14, 2016, 02:13:25 am
Hi,

I just got my SDG2042X. Updated to latest firmware and seems to work just fine.

When reading the remote command manual I didn't notice any way to upload ARB data via the SCPI commands. Not a nice surprise. Am I missing something?

Is there a workaround?

/K

Kazam,
Please contact us at
info@siglent.com
and we will see if we can help you.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: McBryce on September 14, 2016, 05:38:29 pm
I'll give it a few tests over the next few days and let you know if it re-occurs. Is there a quick "return device to factory default settings" method, so that I can test the device from a know condition?

McBryce.

Hi McBryce.

You can reset the SDG2000X generators to factory default by pressing the "Utility" button then "System" on the menu, then "Set to Default".

Quick update: I've been using the SDG2042X extensively for the last 2 weeks and the error hasn't occurred again so far.

McBryce.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: kazam on September 14, 2016, 07:16:57 pm
Kazam,
Please contact us at
info@siglent.com
and we will see if we can help you.

I found this:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg2000x-remote-command-for-sending-arbitrary-waveform-data/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg2000x-remote-command-for-sending-arbitrary-waveform-data/)

I will experiment and get back to you if I run into problems. Thanks!

/K
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Ampere on September 27, 2016, 07:29:33 am
I've been looking for a proper waveform generator to replace the function generator I built. The SDG2042X looks like the best inexpensive waveform generator currently available, but I'm hesitant because TEquipment doesn't even keep it in stock anymore. Does anyone know what's going on with that? Is Siglent planning on replacing the SDG2042X soon, to anyone's knowledge?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on September 27, 2016, 08:33:25 am
I've been looking for a proper waveform generator to replace the function generator I built. The SDG2042X looks like the best inexpensive waveform generator currently available, but I'm hesitant because TEquipment doesn't even keep it in stock anymore. Does anyone know what's going on with that? Is Siglent planning on replacing the SDG2042X soon, to anyone's knowledge?
Saelig are now handling Siglent and offer the same discounts:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/equipment-discounts-from-saelig/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/equipment-discounts-from-saelig/)
Post in that thread for the code.  ;)

There's also a lower priced new AWG from Siglent if you don't need the BW the SDG2kX series offers:
SDG1000X series, 2 models, 30 or 60 MHz
http://www.siglentamerica.com/pdxx.aspx?id=4705&T=2&tid=16 (http://www.siglentamerica.com/pdxx.aspx?id=4705&T=2&tid=16)

Thread:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1000x-waveform-generators/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1000x-waveform-generators/)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Ampere on September 27, 2016, 10:16:35 am
I've been looking for a proper waveform generator to replace the function generator I built. The SDG2042X looks like the best inexpensive waveform generator currently available, but I'm hesitant because TEquipment doesn't even keep it in stock anymore. Does anyone know what's going on with that? Is Siglent planning on replacing the SDG2042X soon, to anyone's knowledge?
Saelig are now handling Siglent and offer the same discounts:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/equipment-discounts-from-saelig/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/equipment-discounts-from-saelig/)
Post in that thread for the code.  ;)

There's also a lower priced new AWG from Siglent if you don't need the BW the SDG2kX series offers:
SDG1000X series, 2 models, 30 or 60 MHz
http://www.siglentamerica.com/pdxx.aspx?id=4705&T=2&tid=16 (http://www.siglentamerica.com/pdxx.aspx?id=4705&T=2&tid=16)

Thread:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1000x-waveform-generators/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1000x-waveform-generators/)

Thanks. I'll check out that SDG1000X series, it might work just as well for my purposes.  :-+
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tequipment on September 28, 2016, 06:52:02 am
Guy stick around for a week and there might be some new products on the market in this space! wink wink

Evan

Tequipment.NET
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on September 28, 2016, 07:29:47 am
Guy stick around for a week and there might be some new products on the market in this space! wink wink

Evan

Tequipment.NET
Care to share what they may be Evan?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Tjuurko on September 29, 2016, 04:53:59 pm
SDG2042X
FW: 2.01.01.21R2

1. Not work SCPI command "C2:ARWV?" for Arb Type Trigo.

Channel: 2
Arb Type: Trigo
Not work SCPI command "C2:ARWV?"

For example:

C2:ARWV INDEX,41
C2:ARWV?
Output DATA: C2:ARWV INDEX,44,NAME,Acot

C2:ARWV INDEX,42
C2:ARWV?
Output DATA: C2:ARWV INDEX,45,NAME,Square

C2:ARWV INDEX,43
C2:ARWV?
Output DATA: C2:ARWV INDEX,46,NAME,SineTra

C2:ARWV INDEX,121
C2:ARWV?
Output DATA: C2:ARWV INDEX,124,NAME,CscH

2. Faulty signal names?

Channel: 1 or 2
Waveforms: Arb
Arb Type: Built-in / Windows

Select: BlackmanH
C1:ARWV?
Output DATA: C1:ARWV INDEX, 35,NAME,Bartlett-Hann

Select: Bartlett-Hann
C1:ARWV?
Output DATA: C1:ARWV INDEX, 36,NAME,Bartlett

Select: Bartlett
C1:ARWV?
Output DATA: C1:ARWV INDEX,135,NAME,Bartlett
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Bangu on September 30, 2016, 02:15:04 am
Greetings to all,
I am a true Newbie and I'm trying to do the editing software to get to 120MHz with Siglent SDG2042x.
The whole procedure works ... but when it comes to ESC (after deleting the line <LICENSE>) the cursor does not go to the bottom and I can not write WQ......
You can kindly help me?
Thank you all.
Bangu
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: janekivi on September 30, 2016, 03:01:59 am
Sometimes even I don't know everything  : )
https://www.cs.colostate.edu/helpdocs/vi.html (https://www.cs.colostate.edu/helpdocs/vi.html)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: CustomEngineerer on September 30, 2016, 03:58:52 am
Greetings to all,
I am a true Newbie and I'm trying to do the editing software to get to 120MHz with Siglent SDG2042x.
The whole procedure works ... but when it comes to ESC (after deleting the line <LICENSE>) the cursor does not go to the bottom and I can not write WQ......
You can kindly help me?
Thank you all.
Bangu

Since it does sound like you are editing the file with VI, after you have deleted the line, you need to press SHIFT-COLON, ":". Then "wq". Thats why you see the command as ":wq". The colon is significant and required.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: MasterTech on September 30, 2016, 04:05:27 am
Sometimes even I don't know everything  : )
https://www.cs.colostate.edu/helpdocs/vi.html (https://www.cs.colostate.edu/helpdocs/vi.html)

That is the best online short course on vi
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Bangu on September 30, 2016, 03:50:50 pm
Thanks  :clap: thanks  :clap: thanks  :clap: to all. :-+
Works fine  :-+
Bangu
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Lunasix on October 03, 2016, 09:32:03 pm
Hi,

decided to buy one after reading this thread (the best advertising...), and received mine this day. First test, and seems to be very good for the price. It will be used for testing signal processing, I/Q modulator and demodulator... Next step is to upload waveforms, if possible created with Scilab.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Bangu on October 09, 2016, 03:11:57 am
I have done the work and now my Siglent became SDG2122X.
But I can not install the USB drivers for EasyWave.
Can someone help me?
Thanks

Updating


I've install the driver usb but EasyWave don't see the SDG2122X

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on October 09, 2016, 06:01:17 am
I have done the work and now my Siglent became SDG2122X.
But I can not install the USB drivers for EasyWave.
Can someone help me?
Thanks

Updating


I've install the driver usb but EasyWave don't see the SDG2122X
Which drivers did you install?
What OS are you using?

They are contained within the NI VISA package, IIRC it's ~550 Mb but the divers themselves are only a few Kb.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Bangu on October 09, 2016, 10:44:59 pm
Thanks Tautech.
I'm installing from cd (drivers for SDG 2000x series), in Siglent's site the drivers pages does't work
I use Windows 10.
Before changing the unit everything worked, now he tells me that I have to connect the instrument.
Thanks

Lanfranco

Updating  |O

I understand, I install the device drivers and I had to install the driver NIVISA.
Now it works perfectly ..... thanks Tautech
Lanfranco
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on October 11, 2016, 06:19:04 am
Thanks Tautech.
I'm installing from cd (drivers for SDG 2000x series), in Siglent's site the drivers pages does't work
I use Windows 10.
Before changing the unit everything worked, now he tells me that I have to connect the instrument.
Thanks

Lanfranco

Updating  |O

I understand, I install the device drivers and I had to install the driver NIVISA.
Now it works perfectly ..... thanks Tautech
Lanfranco
If you mean these drivers, then no they aren't for general instrument to PC communications, they're Labview drivers.
http://www.siglenteu.com/gjjrj.aspx?id=204 (http://www.siglenteu.com/gjjrj.aspx?id=204)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: hafrse on October 21, 2016, 06:09:04 am
Just a quick question: basically the hack is working until P21R2 from one week ago?

I think that most others mileage may vary, but I cannot telnet thru PuTTY or Linux after upgrading to P17R5 months ago.  I have a username/password at the PuTTY telnet login.  Or no viable connection in Linux.  Good luck!

If You dont mind taking the generator apart, the upgrade is still possible using the serial port header on the processor board.

Hello,


Look in the other thread mentioned above, I have posted the pinout there.

br,
mike


It seems to be a 3.3v levels serial, can I use a serial to USB adapter to connect with it  ?
Thanks
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: awallin on October 27, 2016, 05:37:25 am
There seems to be a new firmware P22R5 just made available
http://www.siglent.com/ENs/prodcut-gjjrj.aspx?id=1134&tid=16&T=2 (http://www.siglent.com/ENs/prodcut-gjjrj.aspx?id=1134&tid=16&T=2)
installed it and at least it installs and boots, and 120MHz output still works ;)

However in the IP-settings I thought I will almost going to have a bit of a bad day  |O
What's up with not being able to set the IP _with_the_wheel_ to something like 192.168.x.y?? When rolling the wheel the max of the first number is 99?? Using the keypad it works WTF..

otherwise seems like a nice cheap little siggen. I'll test phase-noise at work at some point..

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on October 27, 2016, 05:53:53 am
New FW for the SDG2000X series:
http://www.siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=4960&tid=15 (http://www.siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=4960&tid=15)

12.9 Mb

From the email I was sent informing me:
Fixes:

1. Permit setting the frequency to 0. 0 Hz would mean that the DDS accumulated phase word would be held/not change with time.
2. Fixed some bugs
a) Single Channel AM Modulation Output Amplitude Is 9.3% Low
b) Manual trigger can not trigger both channels at the same time
c) SW bug regarding the modulation with noise
d) Display graphic error for displayed wave shape
a) Can not save the last state after the update




However in the IP-settings I thought I will almost going to have a bit of a bad day  |O
What's up with not being able to set the IP _with_the_wheel_ to something like 192.168.x.y?? When rolling the wheel the max of the first number is 99?? Using the keypad it works WTF..
Can others elaborate on this ^^^ so it can be reported to the factory.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bson on October 27, 2016, 09:39:42 am
otherwise seems like a nice cheap little siggen. I'll test phase-noise at work at some point..
It's never going to lose frequency lock, so half the noise is amplitude and half phase.  Basically just measure the noise floor using a high Q filter and subtract 3dB.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: kmike on October 28, 2016, 04:50:00 pm

It seems to be a 3.3v levels serial, can I use a serial to USB adapter to connect with it  ?
Thanks

If your USB adapter uses 3.3V level signals you can safely use it. Altough I would measure it first  :)

br,
mike
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: kazam on October 28, 2016, 09:10:17 pm
Hi,

I just got my SDG2042X. Updated to latest firmware and seems to work just fine.

When reading the remote command manual I didn't notice any way to upload ARB data via the SCPI commands. Not a nice surprise. Am I missing something?

Is there a workaround?

/K

Kazam,
Please contact us at
info@siglent.com
and we will see if we can help you.

I sent an email. I can't get this to work and I need it to work.

/K
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on November 15, 2016, 08:48:48 am
FYI
In an email conversation I had today with an 2042X owner that works associated with a local Cal lab....when he got his he sent it to the lab for some checks to satisfy his curiosity:

I took the 2042x up there & asked them to check it. They checked it at 1Hz which is a more stringent test than 40Mhz . It was out by 35nHz (nano hertz) the counter was plugged into their atomic clock standard as a reference. Apparently this is as good as the Agilent equivalent instrument which they have. Only the rise time is slightly better on the Agilent.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: nctnico on November 15, 2016, 10:00:59 pm
I took the 2042x up there & asked them to check it. They checked it at 1Hz which is a more stringent test than 40Mhz . It was out by 35nHz (nano hertz) the counter was plugged into their atomic clock standard as a reference. Apparently this is as good as the Agilent equivalent instrument which they have. Only the rise time is slightly better on the Agilent.
There is little use quoting these kind of anecdotes because they give a false impression of the capabilities of a type of instrument. The only thing what you can rely on is the specification when it comes to accuracy (especially over a temperature range!).
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on November 15, 2016, 10:18:36 pm
I took the 2042x up there & asked them to check it. They checked it at 1Hz which is a more stringent test than 40Mhz . It was out by 35nHz (nano hertz) the counter was plugged into their atomic clock standard as a reference. Apparently this is as good as the Agilent equivalent instrument which they have. Only the rise time is slightly better on the Agilent.
There is little use quoting these kind of anecdotes because they give a false impression of the capabilities of a type of instrument. The only thing what you can rely on is the specification when it comes to accuracy (especially over a temperature range!).
So you don't think that it's interesting info ?  :-//
What capabilities are you referring too, the lab was checking the instrument over for one of the company staff, that's all.
And it was done in one of NZ's top Cal labs.....most probably under controlled temp conditions too.  :P
Furthermore it wasn't even a unit that I'd supplied.  :(
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: nctnico on November 15, 2016, 11:12:03 pm
I took the 2042x up there & asked them to check it. They checked it at 1Hz which is a more stringent test than 40Mhz . It was out by 35nHz (nano hertz) the counter was plugged into their atomic clock standard as a reference. Apparently this is as good as the Agilent equivalent instrument which they have. Only the rise time is slightly better on the Agilent.
There is little use quoting these kind of anecdotes because they give a false impression of the capabilities of a type of instrument. The only thing what you can rely on is the specification when it comes to accuracy (especially over a temperature range!).
So you don't think that it's interesting info ?  :-//
No because you cannot rely on it. It is like measuring one resistor (say A) from a box with 1% resistors and if resistor A is within 0.01% stating the entire box must be at least 0.01% precise. And then there are temperature variations, aging effects, etc,etc. People have Cesium and GPSDO reference clocks for a reason when it comes to accurate time related measurements.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Dwaine on November 16, 2016, 02:46:58 am
Newest member of the Silent SDG2042x gang.  Really liking the unit.  I bought it because of the performance and features.  Plus the firmware updates that keep coming.

Siglent nice job with this one.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: mojoe on November 16, 2016, 04:22:27 am
My two cents on the accuracy/stability of the reference in the 2042X. A few months ago, I checked my unit against my HP GPSDO. I checked the frequency error at quite a few points from the audio range, up to 120 MHz. I don't remember the exact numbers, but the error was a linear percentage of frequency across the entire range (which is what you would expect, if things were designed/working correctly). I do remember that at 120 MHz, the error was only a few Hz. After initial warmup, the FG output was very stable.

Yes, this is only a sample of one. However, it does give me confidence that the internal reference in my unit is a very good one, for a piece of mid-range equipment. With this level of accuracy and stablity, I don't see myself hardly ever needing to use an external reference.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: MrWolf on November 16, 2016, 07:48:32 am
Did recently purchase SDG2042X. Find it rather excellent:
- built like a tank, has very solid feel to it
- all is working according to specs
- no signs of rust  :-+
Go Siglent!  :clap:
And since more is merrier...
Did read  the app note about phase locking multiple units:
http://www.siglent.com/ENs/qyxwxx.aspx?id=1364&sid=208 (http://www.siglent.com/ENs/qyxwxx.aspx?id=1364&sid=208)
Example is done at 60Hz, rather easy case.
Can I expect phase locking to be effective in all operation
modes (DDS, Arb) up to max frequency?
What is expected jitter (ns)?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on November 16, 2016, 08:02:15 am
What is expected jitter (ns)?
All jitter specs in the Datasheet = Max 150 ps 1 Vpp, 50? Load
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Dwaine on November 16, 2016, 08:11:07 pm
I was wondering if we could put a request in to have the frequency counter feature display graphs?  At the moment, it displays just the stats.    :-+
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: MrWolf on November 16, 2016, 08:19:10 pm
What is expected jitter (ns)?
All jitter specs in the Datasheet = Max 150 ps 1 Vpp, 50? Load

So are you suggesting that this is jitter number also
between two synced units  or even
phase locked channels on same units ::)?
And also same when units are synced via:
a) ext ref to both units
b) unit 1 ref out - unit 2 ref in
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: rf-loop on November 16, 2016, 09:21:33 pm
What is expected jitter (ns)?
All jitter specs in the Datasheet = Max 150 ps 1 Vpp, 50? Load

So are you suggesting that this is jitter number also
between two synced units  or even
phase locked channels or same units ::)?
And also same when units are synced via:
a) ext ref to both units
b) unit 1 ref out - unit 2 ref in

There is not at all this kind of specifications.
This specification about 150ps is inside 1 channel signal cycle to cycle jitter and it is not even Max. It is Max RMS jitter! Real max jitter is peak to peak (with this we need live in real life) and this is not specified.

There is also not specified time jitter between external Ref In signal and output signal (but if specify it, then need also specify RefIn signal ... and so on.  Also I can not see channel to channel jitter.

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: MrWolf on November 16, 2016, 09:57:35 pm
There is not at all this kind of specifications.

Maybe someone has 2 units and can test (40MHz+)?
Or what RF pros think? I think that probably it will
be ok with ext ref, not so sure about in-out scheme...
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Frunse on November 20, 2016, 02:39:21 am
Hallo,
i am from Germany and got my SDG2042x this day....the Hack isn't working anymore!

You need to log in now! with Telnet ...but how is the Password.... :-//
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Lunasix on November 20, 2016, 03:57:27 am
You need to downgrade to P17R5, and after mod you can upgrade to P22R5.

It' a great generator, I'm able to test numerical receivers, one channel loaded with an arbitrary waveform (acquired with a scope) and the other generating the carrier, modulated (FM) using a bnc cable connecting the arbitrary output to the external input.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Frunse on November 20, 2016, 05:12:22 am
Hi, me again.

THX i did it and its works great. :-+

I dont realy need the high Bandwith ... but Stuff for free is welcome for DIY and educationel stuff at Home.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Siglent America on November 22, 2016, 02:27:00 am
For those of you who have a SDG2000X (or any Siglent SDG) generator, we thought you might be interested in this new application note we just posted to www.SiglentAmerica.com (http://www.SiglentAmerica.com).

"Custom Waveforms using EasyWave and CSV Templates"
The zipped download also includes some example files.

http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/FAQ/SDG/EasyWaveCSV.zip (http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/FAQ/SDG/EasyWaveCSV.zip)

We are trying to post more and more helpful application notes and FAQs to our website.
We hope that you find these useful.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: billfernandez on November 24, 2016, 03:53:31 am
We are trying to post more and more helpful application notes and FAQs to our website.
We hope that you find these useful.

Thank you for this.  I look forward to more.  In the months after I bought my SDG2042X  I spent many hours trying by trial and error to figure out this kind of thing.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: FluentsAndFluxions on November 24, 2016, 06:39:18 am
Guy stick around for a week and there might be some new products on the market in this space! wink wink

Evan

Tequipment.NET

Is this in reference to the Rigol DG1022Z or adding distribution for Siglent function generators?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on November 24, 2016, 07:03:24 pm
Guy stick around for a week and there might be some new products on the market in this space! wink wink

Evan

Tequipment.NET

Is this in reference to the Rigol DG1022Z or adding distribution for Siglent function generators?
Welcome to the forum F And F

Who knows  :-//
Evan hasn't been back to share any news with us.....yet.

It isn't Siglent distribution, Saelig look after that now and offer similar discounts.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/equipment-discounts-from-saelig/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/equipment-discounts-from-saelig/)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Dwaine on November 26, 2016, 09:59:28 am
Guy stick around for a week and there might be some new products on the market in this space! wink wink

Evan

Tequipment.NET

Is this in reference to the Rigol DG1022Z or adding distribution for Siglent function generators?

Those new Rigol generators are still no match spec wise to the Siglent SDG2024X.   The Rigols have a better frontend display that looks better.  Again, based on specs.   Siglent wins all around.

Dwaine
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: pascal_sweden on November 26, 2016, 11:19:46 am
Fully agree!

Siglent is so much better here. They are doing great things lately!

Signal generators, spectrum analyzers, and even their scopes are getting better.

Rigol better get their act together in the long run :)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Lunasix on November 26, 2016, 08:23:51 pm
The SDG2042X is a great generator, with or without 120MHz upgrade. I first bought one, and this first generator triggered two other purchase. Not so bad !
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Lunasix on November 30, 2016, 03:16:56 am
A trap, for which I lost many hours. I was creating arbitrary waveforms with Scilab, and had a strange problem. If the waveform was quite simple, like 2 or 3 ramps, the ouptut was nice without any visible step. But if it was different, I could see samples and steps, and I had 9us between 2 samples instead of the expected 2us value. I finally found that this was due to the arbitrary mode selected (Arb Mode). The right mode is TrueArb mode, and not DDS mode !
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: MrWolf on December 01, 2016, 01:58:21 am
Received second unit. Happy to report that Siglent has really gone to town with this puppy hardware-wise.
Clock locking via 10MHz in/out works without any noticeable jitter.

However there is sort of a bug with software...

Naturally 10MHz in/out achieves only clock lock and for getting phases right one must compensate channels on second unit for phase shift. Which brings about serious usability issue:

- turned on unit A, clock set to Internal
- turned on unit B, clock set to External
- switched ON B-ch1, phase compensated B-ch1 in relation to unit A
- switched ON B-ch2 => phase compensation lost on B-ch1!
- compensated again
- switched OFF/ON B-ch1 => phase compensation lost!

Compensation also gets lost when one changes amplitude by substantial amount (relays click).

Interesting is that phase gets thrown around by discrete amount to discrete positions - they seem to be ~3.3 nanoseconds apart.
So for example at 100MHz one could get stuff right again when poking channel ON/OFF long enough because there are 3 discrete variants for "phase dice".

Proposals how to fix this:

If possible, preserve phase between ON/OFF and range change cycles... However it may act funny with low frequencies
and automated interface operations.

Alternative: Implement soft "Pause" functionality that would just drop output to 0 but keep "internals running".
For example currently 6th "soft button" is not used in "Parameter" screen. It could be "Pause".
Also single push on Output-X button could pause (button backlight starts blinking), and two pushes in a row switch off. But latter should be configurable option as most users would not see the point to this.

In either case switching ON/OFF second channel must not throw off phase on first channel and vice versa.

If any of the above is not possible maybe there's some other way because currently one would have to keep both channels  ON all the time and hot-swap signal receivers... A bit hardcore when dealing with sensitive stuff.


Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: MrWolf on December 01, 2016, 02:13:18 am
Interesting is that phase gets thrown around by discrete amount which seems to be ~3.3 nanoseconds.

There's more to these ~3.3ns. Unit has built in counter. When measured signal period's modulo operation with ~3.3ns is not zero counter will display Pwidth, Nwidth and duty values that are off by (at least?) ~3.3ns.
Example: 100MHz "bang on" sine will have Pwidth=13.3ns, Nwidth=-3.3ns and duty=133,3%.
If it is not possible to display correct values on on high frequencies - it should be possible to turn off these readings. Or maybe have alternative screen with nice big frequency/period readout without all the stats clutter - similar to what you have on multimeters.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on December 01, 2016, 05:59:03 am
Interesting is that phase gets thrown around by discrete amount which seems to be ~3.3 nanoseconds.

There's more to these ~3.3ns. Unit has built in counter. When measured signal period's modulo operation with ~3.3ns is not zero counter will display Pwidth, Nwidth and duty values that are off by (at least?) ~3.3ns.
Example: 100MHz "bang on" sine will have Pwidth=13.3ns, Nwidth=-3.3ns and duty=133,3%.
If it is not possible to display correct values on on high frequencies - it should be possible to turn off these readings. Or maybe have alternative screen with nice big frequency/period readout without all the stats clutter - similar to what you have on multimeters.
Thanks for your constructive feedback.
Reply #582 reported to Siglent.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Siglent America on December 02, 2016, 02:46:12 am
Greetings.


Regarding your issues when synchronizing two Siglent SDG2000X's together, we have brought this to the attention of the engineering head of that group. He reports that it has been entered into our database of issues to look into. I am told it is not a quick and simple fix, but it is now on their list.
Thank you for your comments.

In the meantime you might look at a video we made in this office where we achieved 4 calibrated phase, with no offset, using Unit #1 to trigger a single count (N) burst on Unit 2. We only did this at a low (60 Hz) frequency so, depending on how high your frequency is, there might be a delay at higher frequencies.

The video can be seen at
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vw1WLc0Pzjg&t=3s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vw1WLc0Pzjg&t=3s)

Another thing we did here in the USA last year is we locked two SDG5000s together and triggered / started them together so they would be phase synchronized. We have not tried this technique using two SDG2000Xs but I believe it should be the same.
You might look at Method #2.
The application note can be found at
http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/FAQ/SDG/Generating_Multi-Phase_Waveforms.pdf (http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/FAQ/SDG/Generating_Multi-Phase_Waveforms.pdf)

Hopefully, one of these techniques will give you a better result than you have had. Otherwise, you might check our FW updates on the SDG2000X periodically.

Thanks again for bringing it to our attention.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: MrWolf on December 02, 2016, 08:27:40 am
Thanks for info, 1st class service  :-+

To solve situation I developed Method #3, settled 99.99% of the problem:

Method #2 does not work "out of the box" at VHF because there is substantial jitter which makes finetuning impossible. Solution: Use Methods #1&2 together. Clocks must be synced.

Second problem is with burst mode. There will be ~1us "rearming" delay after burst which makes VHF impossible to implement on 1 cycle basis. 99.99% solution for 100MHz: Use 1000000 cycles burst length, if your DUT can live with 1us signal gap between bursts. Mine can.

Screenshot of tested 100MHz, 4 phase sine signal attached.

Detailed procedure:

A=SIGLENT SDG2122X
B=SIGLENT SDG2122X
C=RIGOL DS1104Z

Connected with 50Ohm cables:

A-10MHz + 0.5m + B-10MHz
A-Aux + 0.5m + B-Aux
A-CH1 + 1m + PassThruTerm + C-CH3
A-CH2 + 1m + PassThruTerm + C-CH4
B-CH1 + 0.5m + PassThruTerm + C-CH1
B-CH2 + 0.5m + PassThruTerm + C-CH2

Unit A configuration:

[Utility]
(OutputSetup) => (Load) => (50Ohm) => (Return)
(CHCopyCoupling) => Track=On; PhaseDev=-90' => (Return)
(Page1/2) => (Clock) => Source=Internal => (Return)
(Mode) => (PhaseLocked)

[Parameter]
Frequency=100MHz
Amplitude=10dBm

[Burst]
StartPhase=0'
Cycles=1000000
BurstPeriod=10.000990ms
Source=Internal
(Page1/2) => TrigDelay=543ns; TrigOut=Up

Unit B configuration:

[Utility]
(OutputSetup) => (Load) => (50Ohm) => (Return)
(CHCopyCoupling) => Track=On; PhaseDev=-90' => (Return)
(Page1/2) => (Clock) => Source=External => (Return)
(Mode) => (PhaseLocked)

[Parameter]
Frequency=100MHz
Amplitude=10dBm

[Burst]
StartPhase=225'
Cycles=1000000
Source=External
(Page1/2) => TrigDelay=617ns; Edge=Up



Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: flash2b on December 03, 2016, 04:31:57 am
Is there any simple way that I can make a screen copy on internal or USB memory for my Siglent SDG2042X ? On my Siglent SDM3055 there is an option to do a screen copy to a USB stick but this is missing on the SDG2042X. My Rigol DS2102A and DP832A also support making screen copy to USB stick.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Siglent America on December 03, 2016, 07:07:00 am
PM sent
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: sdouble on December 24, 2016, 06:22:13 pm
i do think that we would all be interested in such a feature
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Break42 on December 31, 2016, 10:28:49 pm
Log Sweep issue in the 22R5 firmware

Hi all. The sdg2042 generator is one of the best tools I have. Unfortunatelly there is a bug in the newest 22R5 firmware. If the log sweep is used as follows:
- Sweep time 1sec
- Start freq    100Hz
- Stop freq    10MHz
- Direction: up
- Offset: 0 Vdc

Then the first 270ms of the 1sec period is just one frequency generated (around 90Hz), after this period till one second the sweep works as expected.
I tested this also with other freq. and after power on/off. The failure picture always the same. The linear sweep works correctly as expected.

Do you see also this phenomenon?
 
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: nctnico on January 01, 2017, 12:50:14 am
That looks similar to my SDG1010 on which log sweep is also broken! If you look more carefully (zoom in on the signal) you'll see the log sweep isn't a sweep at all but short pieces of fixed frequencies which go up on a logarithmic scale.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: MasterTech on January 01, 2017, 09:50:40 am
Its a different problem. The log sweep works without any problem from 100Hz to 500khz for example. But for higher freqeucues it seems to start after a delay. To me it seems a numerical problem where the the logarithm function that controls the instantaneus frequency is too small during that time and is rounded to 0.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: seahood on January 04, 2017, 07:00:10 pm
Hello,
there is an hack for the Siglent SDG2042X which make the device from 40MHz to 120MHz.

What is the difference between the hacked 120MHz SDG2042 and the 120MHz model SDG2122X ???
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: rf-loop on January 04, 2017, 07:03:53 pm
Hello,
there is an hack for the Siglent SDG2042X which make the device from 40MHz to 120MHz.

What is the difference between the hacked 120MHz SDG2042 and the 120MHz model SDG2122X ???

Least front panel label.

If used in place where need valid calibration certificate. No way.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: seahood on January 04, 2017, 07:17:52 pm
hmm, this means the hacked SDG2042X has ALL THE FEATURES from the SDG2122X, ALL?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: seahood on January 04, 2017, 07:20:43 pm
Ok, i understand, it has really al features, unbelievable :-)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: RoadRunner on January 12, 2017, 03:02:10 am
updated my hacked SDG2042x to latest version firmware.
With update to Firmware Version 22R5 , i think telnet asks for user name and password.
does anybody else experienced same?


it is still hackable to 120Mhz though  >:D
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: texomobile on January 12, 2017, 10:08:26 am
I was about to order one, but if the hack is not working any more it doesn't make sense. to me to get one. I have a wavetek 80 I guess it will have to do until the next great thing comes along. Is the version 22r5 sdg2042x currently shipping now, or are there still hackable units in the channel now for sale? has anyone received a unhackable unit recently?

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: flash2b on January 12, 2017, 07:21:10 pm
You can downgrade to hackable version 17R5, do the hack, and upgrade to 22R5.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: RoadRunner on January 13, 2017, 01:29:58 am
You can downgrade to hackable version 17R5, do the hack, and upgrade to 22R5.

i had 17R5 upgraded to 22R5 and hack was gone. so i hacked it again with some other method.
i am not sure about others.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: McBryce on January 13, 2017, 01:41:43 am
Really? I've only done one upgrade since I hacked mine and the hack stayed. So the latest update reverses the hack?

McBryce.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: maxspb69 on January 14, 2017, 04:51:08 am
No, the firmware update does not affect the hack.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: RoadRunner on January 14, 2017, 03:33:46 pm
No, the firmware update does not affect the hack.

may be i did something really stupid, can somebody confirm if telnet still available to login without user name password.
Title: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: McBryce on January 14, 2017, 10:09:13 pm
I think two different things are being meant here. For clarification:

After an update the hack is still there if it has already been done. However the hack is not possible to do after the update because a Telnet password has been added.

McBryce.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: AndyC247 on January 17, 2017, 07:53:41 am
I  have  just got my SDG2042X and I am really liking it.

I am finding one thing a bit irritating but maybe I am missing something. It seems like the only way to set the amplitude units is to start to enter the value via the numeric keys. This causes the buttons below the display to allow the user to select the amplitude units. Once I have set an amplitude I would like to be able to change the units without changing the actual amplitude, eg V RMS to V Pk to Pk or dBm to mV RMS. There doesn't appear to be a way to do this without entering a new value.

If it isn't currently possible could I suggest Siglent consider adding this feature. For example, holding the Amplitude button down could cause the Units menu to appear, permitting the user to change the units.

Andrew
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: MasterTech on January 17, 2017, 08:18:57 am
I am finding one thing a bit irritating but maybe I am missing something. It seems like the only way to set the amplitude units is to start to enter the value via the numeric keys. This causes the buttons below the display to allow the user to select the amplitude units. Once I have set an amplitude I would like to be able to change the units without changing the actual amplitude, eg V RMS to V Pk to Pk or dBm to mV RMS. There doesn't appear to be a way to do this without entering a new value.

You're right, one has to type a number and then the unit, and I'd find somewhat scary If one could inadvertently change lets say 10 mVpp into 10Vpp with one keystroke,  a switch from 10dBm to 10Vpp could be ruin instantly some RF circuits

You can, however easily change the first, second, third.... digit of a number with a quick turn of the knob.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on January 17, 2017, 08:26:23 am
I am finding one thing a bit irritating but maybe I am missing something. It seems like the only way to set the amplitude units is to start to enter the value via the numeric keys. This causes the buttons below the display to allow the user to select the amplitude units. Once I have set an amplitude I would like to be able to change the units without changing the actual amplitude, eg V RMS to V Pk to Pk or dBm to mV RMS. There doesn't appear to be a way to do this without entering a new value.

You're right, one has to type a number and then the unit, and I'd find somewhat scary If one could inadvertently change lets say 10 mVpp into 10Vpp with one keystroke,  a switch from 10dBm to 10Vpp could be ruin instantly some RF circuits

You can, however easily change the first, second, third.... digit of a number with a quick turn of the knob.
Like any equipment that has the potential to damage a DUT one must be careful with its use as none are really idiot proof.
Simply toggle the output OFF, make any necessary adjustment, check your settings and toggle back ON.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on January 17, 2017, 08:36:33 am
I  have  just got my SDG2042X and I am really liking it.

I am finding one thing a bit irritating but maybe I am missing something. It seems like the only way to set the amplitude units is to start to enter the value via the numeric keys. This causes the buttons below the display to allow the user to select the amplitude units. Once I have set an amplitude I would like to be able to change the units without changing the actual amplitude, eg V RMS to V Pk to Pk or dBm to mV RMS. There doesn't appear to be a way to do this without entering a new value.

If it isn't currently possible could I suggest Siglent consider adding this feature. For example, holding the Amplitude button down could cause the Units menu to appear, permitting the user to change the units.

Andrew
Welcome to the forum.

Can you check the firmware version yours came with ?
The latest version is P22R5.
You can download it here:
http://www.siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=4960&tid=15 (http://www.siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=4960&tid=15)

I'm temp out of stock but when I have some more I'll investigate your suggestion with a view to having this added to the UI.

Others that think this is a worthwhile addition ?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: MasterTech on January 17, 2017, 08:50:26 am
Others that think this is a worthwhile addition ?
I for one would prefer not to have this feature as it definitively carries some risks, besides I don't see the point in changing the units of a magnitude without changing the absolute value first, but thats just my impression
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: CustomEngineerer on January 17, 2017, 10:21:32 am
I also vote for not useful bordering on dangerous.

Edit: I am withdrawing my comment. Had just gotten home from work, and despite the fact that we are in a signal generator thread I for some reason had power supply on the brain. I was literally picturing switching from 3mA to 3A. I do not have an opinion one way or the other on the suggestion.
Title: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: kcbrown on January 17, 2017, 11:26:46 am
If one changes the units in the way suggested, the generator should just change the value shown to reflect the change in units.   Which is to say, changing the units should have no effect on the actual output, only on the displayed value and the displayed units.

At least, that's how it should behave if the output is turned on.  It's less clear whether that's how it should behave if the output is turned off.  If it doesn't change the value field when the output is turned off, then there should be a clear indication that the output strength is being edited.


(Sent with Tapatalk, so apologies for the lackluster formatting)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Performa01 on January 17, 2017, 05:46:56 pm
Old RF signal generators (without soft menus) have a numeric keypad for entering values, a set of buttons for selecting the units and some up/down keys and/or a rotary encoder together with position keys to change values.

The rules for the amplitude setting are quite simple:

•   Enter a new amplitude by typing a value followed by the appropriate unit-key.
•   Change the amplitude value by using the up/down keys or rotary encoder.
•   Do a unit conversion without any amplitude change by selecting a new unit – this is done by just pressing the associated unit key.
•   The behaviour is exactly the same, whether the output is enabled or not.

That’s exactly how any modern instrument should behave, with the only difference, that the unit-keys would not be visible all the time due to the soft menu architecture. Consequently, there has to be a key to display the units menu, and it sounds perfectly plausible to use the “Amplitude” key for that.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: MasterTech on January 17, 2017, 06:00:45 pm
That’s exactly how any modern instrument should behave, with the only difference, that the unit-keys would not be visible all the time due to the soft menu architecture. Consequently, there has to be a key to display the units menu, and it sounds perfectly plausible to use the “Amplitude” key for that.

On the SDG2042 there is no amplitude key as such, but the units menu appear as soon as you want to change any generator parameter (voltage, freq, offset)

This principle, change absolute value first, then units, applies to all the instruments modern generating /measuring instruments I have, SDG2042, Rigol DP832, Rohde CRTU, HP 3589A...
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: AndyC247 on January 17, 2017, 08:36:44 pm
Tautech:  Yes using the latest software version.

Interesting responses. TBH I am a hobbyist so I don't have professional experience of modern test equipment UIs.

I guess I was just thinking of the SDG2042X performing a unit conversion for me, eg V pk-pk to RMS and dBm to mV RMS. Changing from V pk-pk to mV pk-pk would not make sense in that context. I certainly wasn't expecting the output level to change.

This is a great thread BTW, I learnt a lot about the SDG2042X by reading it ...

Thanks,
Andrew
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on January 17, 2017, 08:49:50 pm
Tautech:  Yes using the latest software version.

Interesting responses. TBH I am a hobbyist so I don't have professional experience of modern test equipment UIs.

I guess I was just thinking of the SDG2042X performing a unit conversion for me, eg V pk-pk to RMS and dBm to mV RMS. Changing from V pk-pk to mV pk-pk would not make sense in that context. I certainly wasn't expecting the output level to change.

This is a great thread BTW, I learnt a lot about the SDG2042X by reading it ...

Thanks,
Andrew
Irrespective of the discussions outcome it's still good to have them as it gives some better understanding of users preferences and if the bulk of them align with the UI and that's current industry expectation then all is good.  :)
The further benefit is to enlighten others as to proper procedures and usage but enough of my ramblings, please carry on to enjoy your new instrument.
Feel free to bounce anything further that concerns you at us.  ;)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Plasmateur on January 20, 2017, 04:53:24 pm
Tautech,

Do you know if the next firmware update will allow for a software trigger to be able to trigger both channels at the same time? Are they working on that for the next update? If so, do you know when that update will take place?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on January 20, 2017, 05:39:39 pm
Tautech,

Do you know if the next firmware update will allow for a software trigger to be able to trigger both channels at the same time? Are they working on that for the next update? If so, do you know when that update will take place?
:-//
Can't you do that with Ch Copy/Track, then use Burst on the Tracked Ch with the start set to Ext and initiate it from an Aux In signal or use the Manual Burst start ?

All that's in FW 22R5.....now I haven't tried it as I've just got new stock today and had to fire one up to check how it might be done in the UI.
Your turn.  >:D  Tell us if that works.  :popcorn:

Ah, do you mean a SCPI command ?
Not at all conversant with them, sorry. But if the commands mentioned above are available maybe you can try that procedure ?


The last update was last October so unless something else is a problem I don't know of any updates coming soon.
I think the factory is quite busy working on some other new goodies for y'all.  :)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on January 20, 2017, 06:54:38 pm
Tautech:  Yes using the latest software version.

Interesting responses. TBH I am a hobbyist so I don't have professional experience of modern test equipment UIs.

I guess I was just thinking of the SDG2042X performing a unit conversion for me, eg V pk-pk to RMS and dBm to mV RMS. Changing from V pk-pk to mV pk-pk would not make sense in that context. I certainly wasn't expecting the output level to change.

This is a great thread BTW, I learnt a lot about the SDG2042X by reading it ...

Thanks,
Andrew
Now that I have stock of these again....I do see your point and it's been passed to the factory for consideration along with Performa01's always great advice.  ;)

Regarding dB units, they are only available when the output load is set to 50 \$\Omega\$.
With HiZ output settings only V p-p and Vrms units are available.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Plasmateur on January 21, 2017, 04:39:43 pm
Tautech,

Do you know if the next firmware update will allow for a software trigger to be able to trigger both channels at the same time? Are they working on that for the next update? If so, do you know when that update will take place?
:-//
Can't you do that with Ch Copy/Track, then use Burst on the Tracked Ch with the start set to Ext and initiate it from an Aux In signal or use the Manual Burst start ?

All that's in FW 22R5.....now I haven't tried it as I've just got new stock today and had to fire one up to check how it might be done in the UI.
Your turn.  >:D  Tell us if that works.  :popcorn:

Ah, do you mean a SCPI command ?
Not at all conversant with them, sorry. But if the commands mentioned above are available maybe you can try that procedure ?


The last update was last October so unless something else is a problem I don't know of any updates coming soon.
I think the factory is quite busy working on some other new goodies for y'all.  :)

Yes, with a SCPI command. Would make the unit super awesome if it could do that. That's really the only goodie I need.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on January 21, 2017, 05:29:24 pm
Tautech,

Do you know if the next firmware update will allow for a software trigger to be able to trigger both channels at the same time? Are they working on that for the next update? If so, do you know when that update will take place?
:-//
Can't you do that with Ch Copy/Track, then use Burst on the Tracked Ch with the start set to Ext and initiate it from an Aux In signal or use the Manual Burst start ?

All that's in FW 22R5.....now I haven't tried it as I've just got new stock today and had to fire one up to check how it might be done in the UI.
Your turn.  >:D  Tell us if that works.  :popcorn:

Ah, do you mean a SCPI command ?
Not at all conversant with them, sorry. But if the commands mentioned above are available maybe you can try that procedure ?


The last update was last October so unless something else is a problem I don't know of any updates coming soon.
I think the factory is quite busy working on some other new goodies for y'all.  :)

Yes, with a SCPI command. Would make the unit super awesome if it could do that. That's really the only goodie I need.
I started a dialogue with the factory late yesterday, it ran until the close of day in Shenzhen and we're committed to return to it on Monday at which time I'll push some more for changes. Got some other stuff to fit in then too so I'll bash some sort of doc together over the weekend for the product manager to fully consider. No promises but I'll try to present a good case. Now where's that SCPI manual..............
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Plasmateur on January 22, 2017, 04:54:35 am
Thank you so much. I really appreciate it.

I wonder how Chinese new year will effect the progress on this. I know some of the manufactures in Taiwan are going to be completely shut down over the course of a week.

Super awesome if they are able to get this to work.

If this unit can trigger bother CH.1 and CH.2 outputs from a SCPI command.... AND.....have a DC pulse with a set width come out of the output on the back....Nothing even holds a candle to this within this frequency range (IMO). And the guys in Ohio who came out to my lab, if they can demonstrate this functionality, it would be a huge selling point.

Also, if the salesmen in Ohio had a labtop they could hook up to this sig-gen with an awesome LabVIEW VI and/or MatLAB interface to demonstate this, I think it would catch potential buyer's attention even moreso.....is siglent Ohio hiring? I feel like I could sell these things to those who are program savvy and could realize the value this sig gen brings. I think its incredible, and with another firmware update, would bring shame upon anything else in the market within this range of frequency.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on January 22, 2017, 07:40:41 am
Thank you so much. I really appreciate it.

I wonder how Chinese new year will effect the progress on this. I know some of the manufactures in Taiwan are going to be completely shut down over the course of a week.

Super awesome if they are able to get this to work.

If this unit can trigger bother CH.1 and CH.2 outputs from a SCPI command.... AND.....have a DC pulse with a set width come out of the output on the back....Nothing even holds a candle to this within this frequency range (IMO). And the guys in Ohio who came out to my lab, if they can demonstrate this functionality, it would be a huge selling point.

Also, if the salesmen in Ohio had a labtop they could hook up to this sig-gen with an awesome LabVIEW VI and/or MatLAB interface to demonstate this, I think it would catch potential buyer's attention even moreso.....is siglent Ohio hiring? I feel like I could sell these things to those who are program savvy and could realize the value this sig gen brings. I think its incredible, and with another firmware update, would bring shame upon anything else in the market within this range of frequency.
Can you try this:
Set the parameters and then OUTP to OFF, then *WAI (wait) followed by OUTP 's to ON
Is this a valid "workaround" solution ?

Is the VKEY command also of use to trigger both outputs ?

Commands from the Siglent SCPI manual:
http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Documents/Program_Material/SDG_Remote%20Control%20Manual(Rev1.0).pdf (http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Documents/Program_Material/SDG_Remote%20Control%20Manual(Rev1.0).pdf)

Quote
DC pulse with a set width come out of the output on the back
Can you offer a usage case please ?

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Plasmateur on January 22, 2017, 03:58:48 pm
Thank you so much. I really appreciate it.

I wonder how Chinese new year will effect the progress on this. I know some of the manufactures in Taiwan are going to be completely shut down over the course of a week.

Super awesome if they are able to get this to work.

If this unit can trigger bother CH.1 and CH.2 outputs from a SCPI command.... AND.....have a DC pulse with a set width come out of the output on the back....Nothing even holds a candle to this within this frequency range (IMO). And the guys in Ohio who came out to my lab, if they can demonstrate this functionality, it would be a huge selling point.

Also, if the salesmen in Ohio had a labtop they could hook up to this sig-gen with an awesome LabVIEW VI and/or MatLAB interface to demonstate this, I think it would catch potential buyer's attention even moreso.....is siglent Ohio hiring? I feel like I could sell these things to those who are program savvy and could realize the value this sig gen brings. I think its incredible, and with another firmware update, would bring shame upon anything else in the market within this range of frequency.
Can you try this:
Set the parameters and then OUTP to OFF, then *WAI (wait) followed by OUTP 's to ON
Is this a valid "workaround" solution ?

Is the VKEY command also of use to trigger both outputs ?

Commands from the Siglent SCPI manual:
http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Documents/Program_Material/SDG_Remote%20Control%20Manual(Rev1.0).pdf (http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Documents/Program_Material/SDG_Remote%20Control%20Manual(Rev1.0).pdf)

Quote
DC pulse with a set width come out of the output on the back
Can you offer a usage case please ?

I didn't see anything in the vkey command that eluded to simulating the pressing of the manual trigger button. But that should do the trick.

The attached picture shows in theory what I'd like to do with SDG2042X, I'm not sure if I did this with the most recent update. Here we can see two different signals with two different frequencies offset with some time difference from the start of the burst.

Also, I would be using the Aux/out as a pulse delay generator, (the purple line) with some set width and some set delay(+/-) relative to ch.1 or ch.2.

It looks like this machine could do that with the correct firmware, that is.

Channel 1 - Burst mode - Set frequency, set amplitude, set cycles, set delay - trigger from SCPI and/or manual,

Channel 2 - Burst mode - Set frequency, set amplitude, set cycles, set delay relative to ch.1 - trigger from the same SCPI and/or manual as ch.1

Aux Out    - Burst mode - Set width, set amplitude, set delay relative to ch.1 - trigger from the same SCPI and/or manual as ch.1

That would be so sick if this unit could do that.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on January 22, 2017, 05:46:08 pm

The attached picture shows in theory what I'd like to do with SDG2042X, I'm not sure if I did this with the most recent update. Here we can see two different signals with two different frequencies offset with some time difference from the start of the burst.

Also, I would be using the Aux/out as a pulse delay generator, (the purple line) with some set width and some set delay(+/-) relative to ch.1 or ch.2.

It looks like this machine could do that with the correct firmware, that is.

Aux Out    - Burst mode - Set width, set amplitude, set delay relative to ch.1 - trigger from the same SCPI and/or manual as ch.1
Oh dear......your scope.  :box:

Aux Out.
Width and delay could IMO be possible, but when amplitude is considered one needs to look hard at the HW for this to be considered feasible.
 
So we need look at some SDG2000X teardown pics to see if the Aux Out HW has the potential to vary the output amplitude.
As this BNC is an I/O there should be some switching and buffers, one would expect. If the buffers are only level shifters then we might be SOL. Although that wouldn't stop you from adding your own level shifter or fast amplitude stage.
Can I leave this to you, maybe come back here with a pic so we can all have a study of it.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: gmb42 on January 23, 2017, 01:14:01 am
Oh dear......your scope.  :box:

Why denigrate another users choice of equipment, especially when you're trying to persuade him to buy equipment from the manufacturer you resell for?

As the screen shot shows 3 channels are required for this application.

The cheapest Siglent 4 channel I can find is the SDS2104x (http://siglentamerica.com/qyxwxx.aspx?id=4935&sid=216) at $1285.

The user's Rigol DS10??Z is available in DS1054Z (https://www.rigolna.com/products/digital-oscilloscopes/ds1000Z/ds1054z/) form for $399 and can be unlocked to approximately the same bandwidth as the Siglent.

I leave it up to others to decide if the Siglent is worth more than 3 times as much in order to meet their requirements and the depths of their pockets.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on January 23, 2017, 06:13:52 am
Oh dear......your scope.  :box:

Why denigrate another users choice of equipment, especially when you're trying to persuade him to buy equipment from the manufacturer you resell for?
Said in jest, has nobody a sense of humor anymore ?  :-//

Furthermore Plasmateur wants some features added to equipment he already has, or did you miss that while you had your blood pressure up.....no apology necessary, we all make mistakes.  :)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: diodak on February 05, 2017, 02:41:20 am
Has anyone tried the auto calibration?
Utilit->System->System Inf->Enter Password “123654”->SelfCal
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: MrW0lf on February 05, 2017, 08:06:58 am
It looks like this machine could do that with the correct firmware, that is.

Just little workaround suggestion... if I understood application: Just buy second unit.
2xSDG2042X is about best value I ever spent on any new lab tech. 4 channel clock/phase lock zero jitter (detectable with given scope):
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/msg1082659/#msg1082659 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/msg1082659/#msg1082659)
Only burst mode possible, but burst can be pretty long so mostly ok. I used it for 4x sine waves but
could be anything.


Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Tjuurko on February 06, 2017, 08:20:36 pm
Once I have set an amplitude I would like to be able to change the units without changing the actual amplitude, eg V RMS to V Pk to Pk or dBm to mV RMS.
Such a feature is easy to implement for sine wave only.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: nctnico on February 10, 2017, 09:34:19 am
Has anyone some comments about the arbitrary waveform capabilities? I may get a project where the 8Mpts AWG functionality in the SDG2000X series could prove useful.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: AndyC247 on February 13, 2017, 09:26:45 am
I have my SDG2042X configured to restore the last used settings on power up. I had set it to output a 7.1MHz sinewave at 0 dBm. When I next turned it on it restored the 7.1MHz but instead of displaying 0 dBm it displayed the equivalent in mV RMS. So it doesn't appear to store the units that the output level was entered in?

Regards,
Andrew
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on February 13, 2017, 10:31:24 am
I have my SDG2042X configured to restore the last used settings on power up. I had set it to output a 7.1MHz sinewave at 0 dBm. When I next turned it on it restored the 7.1MHz but instead of displaying 0 dBm it displayed the equivalent in mV RMS. So it doesn't appear to store the units that the output level was entered in?

Regards,
Andrew
Please check your FW version, the latest being 22R5
http://www.siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=4960&tid=15 (http://www.siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=4960&tid=15)

In the change log there are 2 mentions of similar to what you describe:
e) Instrument Powers Up With Wrong Waveforms
h) Can not save the last state after the update

I'll check one I have in stock before I report your issue to Tech support unless someone else can confirm.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: AndyC247 on February 13, 2017, 10:35:54 pm
I confirm I have the latest firmware 22R5

Andrew
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on February 15, 2017, 07:16:37 am
I confirm I have the latest firmware 22R5

Andrew
Some small feedback on your issue:
The Amplitude unit change issue is a known bug and they are working on it.

But something I didn't know and maybe of some help:
The LAST function can take up to one minute to work – the system only scans that key function that often.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bson on February 21, 2017, 07:36:41 am
Is there a way to make the SDG2000X output DC?  It doesn't seem to like being set to 0Hz, or a 0V amplitude on top of a DC offset.  Sometimes it's really handy to have a programmable voltage source that's more accurate and precise than a PSU.

I'm looking to measure a pile of LDR devices (32SR2) - these optoisolators consist of an LED on one side and a photoresistor on the other, embedded in a package. Drive the LED and the resistance drops.  I plan to put these in a voltage-controlled test fixture that accepts 0-3.3V and drives the LED side with a known current response.  I want to drive the fixture from the SDG2000X with a programmable voltage, using its LXI ethernet interface.  The input impedance is high, so it's not like the FG has to supply more than a few mA, maybe 10mA, and that should be no problem.

I could of course use a PSU and then measure its actual output voltage, but then I won't get device measurements at the same points.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Hergen Lehmann on February 21, 2017, 08:07:57 am
Is there a way to make the SDG2000X output DC?  It doesn't seem to like being set to 0Hz, or a 0V amplitude on top of a DC offset.  Sometimes it's really handy to have a programmable voltage source that's more accurate and precise than a PSU.

There is a waveform called "DC" on the second page of the waveform menu.
Accuracy is not that outstanding, though. On my device, i get ~0.3% error on the selected offset voltage. A good programmable PSU might give better results.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bson on February 21, 2017, 11:05:26 am
Oh, didn't see that!  Excellent!

Doesn't seem so bad to me. 

Set it to 357.9mV and my 34465A reads 0.357590V, at 100PLC and nulled (short).  That's an error of about 0.04%.

It seems the error varies, and for some values I get around 0.01%.  This also doesn't seem random but quite reproducible, so I can pick test voltages I know have good accuracy... :p

(It's probably a DAC word size issue.)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on February 23, 2017, 12:22:35 am
Oh, didn't see that!  Excellent!

Doesn't seem so bad to me. 

Set it to 357.9mV and my 34465A reads 0.357590V, at 100PLC and nulled (short).  That's an error of about 0.04%.

It seems the error varies, and for some values I get around 0.01%.  This also doesn't seem random but quite reproducible, so I can pick test voltages I know have good accuracy... :p

(It's probably a DAC word size issue.)
FYI
All Siglent AWG's have a DC (waveform) output mode and it can be used to power small projects if needed.
The source impedance is 50 \$\Omega\$ so the current supplied is limited.
All models except the SDG5000 series have BNC shells common'd with mains ground so the negative of the DC supply will be mains ground referenced.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Plasmateur on February 25, 2017, 02:39:38 pm
Oh dear......your scope.  :box:

Why denigrate another users choice of equipment, especially when you're trying to persuade him to buy equipment from the manufacturer you resell for?
Said in jest, has nobody a sense of humor anymore ?  :-//

Furthermore Plasmateur wants some features added to equipment he already has, or did you miss that while you had your blood pressure up.....no apology necessary, we all make mistakes.  :)

I thought it was funny, no harm no foul.

And technically the SDG2042X has three outputs for my application if the aux out is simply used as a TTL gated signal while the front outputs are used as AFG's.

As for needed the AUX out to be variable. Not needed. 5V TTL gate would be great.

Would be great if all these could be triggered from the same software trigger.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: pherdie on March 19, 2017, 05:56:36 am
Is there any method to change the output reading from peak to peak volts to something really useful like dbm or rms (available on the Rigols). Sure would make life more pleasant for me as opposed to doing constant conversions. It appears Siglent did it for the units they made for Teledyne so they must have the code already written.

Did I miss a menu item?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on March 19, 2017, 06:13:58 am
Is there any method to change the output reading from peak to peak volts to something really useful like dbm or rms (available on the Rigols). Sure would make life more pleasant for me as opposed to doing constant conversions. It appears Siglent did it for the units they made for Teledyne so they must have the code already written.

Did I miss a menu item?
I hunted this out recently in another thread somewhere.
IIRC dBm units are only available in the 50 \$\Omega\$ impedance output setting. You can change the output impedance in the Utility menu.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: MrW0lf on March 19, 2017, 06:23:42 am
You can change the output impedance in the Utility menu.

...or long-press CH* ON|OFF button.
Otherwise I have annoyance with same stuff others report when set to dBm and wander around in other screens it has forgot the unit and converted to volts equivalent
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: rf-loop on March 19, 2017, 06:42:30 am
You can change the output impedance in the Utility menu.

I know you know but for avoid  confusion...

This setting is not for  set output impedance, it is only for tell to equipment what is connected load impedance, for display right level value (if true load match with user made setup)!
Output impedance is always 50ohm. In all cases.

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: MrW0lf on March 19, 2017, 07:10:56 am
I know you know but for avoid  confusion...

Quite confusing indeed. I never actually analyzed this, if set to 50ohm always have 50ohm termination etc. Now suppose one does not have termination. It shows wrong voltage then. Can claim user error etc but it is not good GUI practice to display only imaginary value, which cannot be guaranteed and depends on what user does with output. Is it like this on all signal gens?
Maybe there should be grayed out "Unload ampl." or something as reminder what is actually going on?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on March 19, 2017, 07:24:50 am
I know you know but for avoid  confusion...

Quite confusing indeed. I never actually analyzed this, if set to 50ohm always have 50ohm termination etc. Now suppose one does not have termination. It shows wrong voltage then. Can claim user error etc but it is not good GUI practice to display only imaginary value, which cannot be guaranteed and depends on what user does with output. Is it like this on all signal gens?
Maybe there should be grayed out "Unload ampl." or something as reminder what is actually going on?
Know your instrument  ;) and how to properly use it.  ;)

Set the output to try match the load. Simple IMO.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: nctnico on March 19, 2017, 07:25:50 am
I know you know but for avoid  confusion...

Quite confusing indeed. I never actually analyzed this, if set to 50ohm always have 50ohm termination etc. Now suppose one does not have termination. It shows wrong voltage then. Can claim user error etc but it is not good GUI practice to display only imaginary value, which cannot be guaranteed and depends on what user does with output. Is it like this on all signal gens?
Yes it is on all general purpose signal generators. The 50 Ohm output resistor also limits the short circuit current.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: MrW0lf on March 19, 2017, 07:35:58 am
Know your instrument  ;) and how to properly use it.  ;)

:box: I AM using it properly. Just bit outsider to "RF conventions", not outsider to good GUI practices to save user from trouble. System I develop involves money transactions... Numbers gotta stick to reality, saying RTFM little help if "owned" customer shows up ;)

Edit: Looked around sig. gen photos. Indeed seems convention not display 50ohm unloaded voltage. Can understand why convention because unloaded "real" RF amplifier may mean broken amplifier. Low freq sig gen more grey area, would still display "unloaded" voltage somewhere just in case if spare screen room. But with SDG2000X seems no room.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on March 19, 2017, 07:42:58 am
I'll post some screenshots for better clarity at 1M \$\Omega\$ and 50 \$\Omega\$ output settings...

Screenshots as promised
SDS1102X DSO
SDG1062X (same UI as 2042X and very similar specs.)
Pulse for better indications of current loadings when properly terminated.
Ch 2: Tek P6021 AC current probe. (values seen may not be correct (attenuation) but waveform is indicative of what's happening)

Shot 1 with only 50 \$\Omega\$ scope internal termination.
Waveform is identical with either 50 or 1M \$\Omega\$ sig gen source impedance. Only the sig gen displays a difference depending on the source impedance selected.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=300538)

Next is entirely different, the source is always 50 \$\Omega\$ from the sig gen (explained earlier) but the termination impedance matters.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=300540)

Tiny current spikes can be seen on rising and falling edges....clear on the display but not so in the screenshots.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: pherdie on March 19, 2017, 10:46:10 am
With egg on my face I answer my own question.

Yes, output can be designated in RMS or dbm as opposed to peak to peak, but only when the output load is set for 50 Ohms.

I found this quite by accident drilling through menus. It was not found in the pdf version of the operations manual using a pdf generated search.

Quote
Is there any method to change the output reading from peak to peak volts to something really useful like dbm or rms (available on the Rigols). Sure would make life more pleasant for me as opposed to doing constant conversions. It appears Siglent did it for the units they made for Teledyne so they must have the code already written.

Did I miss a menu item?/quote]
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on March 19, 2017, 11:29:09 am
With egg on my face I answer my own question.

Yes, output can be designated in RMS or dbm as opposed to peak to peak, but only when the output load is set for 50 Ohms.

I found this quite by accident drilling through menus. It was not found in the pdf version of the operations manual using a pdf generated search.

Quote
Is there any method to change the output reading from peak to peak volts to something really useful like dbm or rms (available on the Rigols). Sure would make life more pleasant for me as opposed to doing constant conversions. It appears Siglent did it for the units they made for Teledyne so they must have the code already written.

Did I miss a menu item?

As you're not the first to have asked about this I'll shoot an email to Siglent asking for it to be made clearer in the manual.
P30 of the latest manual shows the UI and the other units available although the image shows 1M \$\Omega\$ output impedance while as you say they are only available in 50 \$\Omega\$ output mode.  :-//
The pic at least needs changing for one showing 50 \$\Omega\$ not 1M as this is misleading for those trying to access the other units. Some wording to make all this clear need be added too.
http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Documents/UserManual/SDG2000X_UserManual_UM0202X-E01C.pdf (http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Documents/UserManual/SDG2000X_UserManual_UM0202X-E01C.pdf)

As is often the case as manuals get updated there is new info included and the CD manual supplied can sometimes be out of date. Keep an eye out for new manuals. I do try to announce them but often I don't get notified of new versions. Feel free to announce any new versions seen.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: MrW0lf on March 19, 2017, 08:27:08 pm
Confusion about signal gen source impedance pops up quite often, if look Google.
Seem not RF-background people assume sources as LowZ.
For example I often handle 100Ah batteries in complex conditions and you better be treating them as LowZ... Gets into your system so to speak.

After little thinking I have some improvement suggestions:

1) First look at my other gear, discover all needed info on front panel:

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=300654)

2) Improve SDG2000X

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=300656)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: MrW0lf on March 20, 2017, 04:21:30 am
Did some checks for "changing units" bug:

1) Wrong units and value after reboot:

- set Ch1.Load=50ohm
- set Ch1.Amplitude=0dBm
- power OFF
- power ON
- displays Ch1.Amplitude=447.2Vpp
- check with 50ohm load confirms that 0dBm has converted to -3dBm

2) Ch1/Ch2 units mixup:

- set Ch1.Load=50ohm
- set Ch1.Amplitude=0dBm
- [Ch1/Ch2]
- set Ch2.Amplitude=1Vpp
- [Ch1/Ch2]
- displays Ch1.Amplitude=632.6mVpp

Consequently if Ch2.Load=HighZ then after [Ch1/Ch2] will always lose "50ohm" units on Ch1.
Only way keep units is keep set Ch2.Load=50ohm and same units as on Ch1.

FW=22R5
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on March 29, 2017, 10:22:03 am
New Firmware for SDG2000X series.
http://siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=5196&tid=15 (http://siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=5196&tid=15)
12.4 Mb

From the changelog:
1. Allow 0 Hz for CH Frequency In MOD Modes PM, AM, DSB-AM, ASK, PSK
2. Allow MOD frequency > CH Frequency In MOD Modes PM, DSB AM, ASK
3. Allow DSB-AM, AM MOD Modes In TrueArb Mode
4. Up Followed by Down Sweep Mode is Supported in Linear Sweep (No Change for Log Sweep)
5. Added ARB waveform name to display, allowing user to know what Arb waveform is loaded
6. Fixed some bugs :
a) Arb Waveforms In DDS Mode Have One (Small) Glitch Per Cycle
b) Built in Ramp waveform has a flat spot issue at the rising slope zero crossing right at the SYNC pulse
c) Power Up Last Does Not Remember SRate/Frequency Setting
d) MOD Type = DSB AM Has Amplitude Issues
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: CustomEngineerer on March 29, 2017, 01:14:03 pm
I went ahead and installed the new firmware and can confirm that the bandwidth hack remains in place through the update.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: CustomEngineerer on March 29, 2017, 01:28:31 pm
Don't really have time to test out all the changes, but did get to briefly play around with the new up down linear sweep mode. Behaves like you would expect. When set to Up_Down direction, there is a new setting called Dir Sym (direction symmetry) that allows you to set what percentage of the sweep time is spent going up vs going down. Thats all I had time for, hopefully will get to test more out in the next couple of days.

 
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: nugglix on March 29, 2017, 05:29:18 pm
New Firmware for SDG2000X series.
http://siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=5196&tid=15 (http://siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=5196&tid=15)
12.4 Mb

Wahh... these Siglent links suck.
Downloads stops after a few seconds.
Must be very complicated to make such a thing work.  :--
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on March 29, 2017, 05:33:50 pm
New Firmware for SDG2000X series.
http://siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=5196&tid=15 (http://siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=5196&tid=15)
12.4 Mb

Wahh... these Siglent links suck.
Downloads stops after a few seconds.
Must be very complicated to make such a thing work.  :--
Maybe everybody is downloading it.  :-//
Edit
I grabbed it today without incident....must be your pipes to the US ?
Do you have regular problems downloading Siglent material ?

Here's the link from the EU site:
http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDG2000X_V200R001B01D01P23R3EE.rar (http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDG2000X_V200R001B01D01P23R3EE.rar)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: rf-loop on March 29, 2017, 06:06:31 pm
New Firmware for SDG2000X series.
http://siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=5196&tid=15 (http://siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=5196&tid=15)
12.4 Mb

Wahh... these Siglent links suck.
Downloads stops after a few seconds.
Must be very complicated to make such a thing work.  :--

Here  network works reliable and without any single problem. Tested 10 times.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: nugglix on March 29, 2017, 06:18:34 pm
Seems to be a routing issue w/ the provider of this IP.
Using a VPN and different surfacing point it works.

*sigh*
Welcome to the 21st century...

Thanks for the checks and feedback!

Cheers
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: rf-loop on March 29, 2017, 06:38:39 pm
Seems to be a routing issue w/ the provider of this IP.
Using a VPN and different surfacing point it works.

*sigh*
Welcome to the 21st century...

Thanks for the checks and feedback!

Cheers

America need first reach 20th century...  (networks - mobile and wired)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Dwaine on March 30, 2017, 04:36:19 pm
I just downloaded the firmware fine.   Nice to see another firmware upgrade.   I'm still looking for some graphing with the frequency counter.

One screen for the stats and another screen for the graph.

I really like this device and it's been a great addition to my lab.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Plasmateur on April 01, 2017, 07:31:11 pm
Tautech,

Any news on getting getting both channels to trigger from a remote command on the next firmware update?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on April 01, 2017, 08:21:38 pm
Tautech,

Any news on getting getting both channels to trigger from a remote command on the next firmware update?
I can ask but the factory is on a Chinese holiday for the next few days.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: kazam on April 06, 2017, 09:50:07 pm
Hi,

Just updated to the latest release. The very annoying bug with skipping position when changing delay values with the knob is still there!

Steps to reproduce:
1. Set output 1 to pulse
2. Set delay to 100.000us
3. Move digit indicator to second decimal place 100.0X0us
4. Rotate wheel

You will get 100.010 => 10X.010
Cursor will move here -----/

The next time you rotate you will increase delay by a full us. Stupendously annoying when you have your eyes on the scope and wonder where your waveform went. :)

/K
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Siglent America on April 07, 2017, 10:54:13 pm
kazam,
Thank you. Engineering has been notified and is now on their bug list.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: zorromen on April 09, 2017, 07:47:14 pm
Hello, there is a question. I'm writing on PC a program for controlling the generator, I'm tired of twisting my hands. So I ran into such a problem. Requires PWM 100KHz 0-3V with modulation frequency of 10 Hz to modulate ARB signals, both mine and built-in from the list. It does not work to write a query so that you can select the type of ARB signal by number or name.

myDmm.WriteString("C1:BSWV WVTP,PULSE,AMP,3.0V,OFST,1.5V,FRQ,100000HZ,DUTY,50.0");
myDmm.WriteString("C1:MDWV STATE,ON,PWM,FRQ,10,MDSP,ARB");

The command myDmm.WriteString("C1:ARWV?"); always returns "C1:ARWV INDEX,0,NAME,StairUp\n"

If we write myDmm.WriteString("C1:ARWV INDEX,6"); then the modulation goes over to AM.

How to make PWM modulate the desired ARB signal?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Siglent America on April 11, 2017, 04:03:18 am
Hello zorromen,

We tried to post the answer here but we had three screen shots and it took up too much room.

We did find the problem. Please contact us at
info@siglent.com
and we will help you out on this.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: fonograph on April 14, 2017, 09:46:43 pm
Siglent says that modulation freqency is 1mhz max,I am confused

is it 1mhz max for the carrier or 1mhz max for the modulating freqency? I want to do some 6 mhz PWM modulation stuff and I was thinking since this is 120mhz signal generator it should handle it but when I read the specs I am not sure anymore if it can do what I need
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: zorromen on April 15, 2017, 04:45:59 am
Modulation signal max 1 MHz (Sine....Arb, External)
PWM 25MHz
You will approach it, 120 Mhz is for Sine, the basis of PWM is PULSE, so it is limited to 25 Mhz.

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on April 15, 2017, 05:45:42 am
Hello zorromen,

We tried to post the answer here but we had three screen shots and it took up too much room.

We did find the problem. Please contact us at
info@siglent.com
and we will help you out on this.
Hence the need for a faster FW roll out of alternative and smaller file types for screenshots. (png etc)
These have been promised for a while and many of us have had quite enough of compressing imagery for online screenshots. Get a move on Siglent.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: fonograph on April 15, 2017, 08:41:18 am
So I can have 25mhz PWM carrier and I can modulate it at 1mhz? Did I understand it correctly?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: zorromen on April 15, 2017, 08:07:35 pm
So it is, only it is necessary to take into account that the frequency of the PWM 150MHz itself is 6.6 nS step, it leads to a strong drop in the resolution at a high frequency> 10Mhz.
For example 150Mhz / 256bit = 580KHz
20Mhz will give us in reality only 3 states since we need to consider 8.4ns fronts.
At 24 and 25 MHz PWM I did not modulate anything at all.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: colorado.rob on May 05, 2017, 12:39:32 pm
Is it possible to modulate an FSK signal with a file (square wave waveform)?  I'd like to be able to upload a bitstream and FSK modulate that signal.

I'm able to do FSK modulation of simple square wave, but modulation of arbitrary data is what I really need.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: colorado.rob on May 05, 2017, 01:23:13 pm
Quote
We tried to post the answer here but we had three screen shots and it took up too much room.

We did find the problem. Please contact us at
info@siglent.com
and we will help you out on this

Please reply here.  I have the same question.  I'm sure others will too.

Edit: add context
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: CustomEngineerer on May 05, 2017, 03:29:05 pm
Is it possible to modulate an FSK signal with a file (square wave waveform)?  I'd like to be able to upload a bitstream and FSK modulate that signal.

I'm able to do FSK modulation of simple square wave, but modulation of arbitrary data is what I really need.

Please reply here.  I have the same question.  I'm sure others will too.

The same question as yourself or are you referring to a different question on your second post? For the obvious question, it does appear that you can FSK modulate an arbitrary waveform, so you should just be able to upload your arbitrary waveform, set it as the active waveform, the turn on and setup modulation.

Edit: In addition to that it also appears that you can feed in an external signal through the signal/trigger in connector on the back to be used for the "Key Freq".
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: colorado.rob on May 05, 2017, 11:01:39 pm
Is it possible to modulate an FSK signal with a file (square wave waveform)?  I'd like to be able to upload a bitstream and FSK modulate that signal.

I'm able to do FSK modulation of simple square wave, but modulation of arbitrary data is what I really need.

For the obvious question, it does appear that you can FSK modulate an arbitrary waveform, so you should just be able to upload your arbitrary waveform, set it as the active waveform, the turn on and setup modulation.

I want to FSK modulate a sine wave with an arbitrary bit sequence.  Most other forms allow one to specify the modulation source (example: "C2:MDWV PWM,MDSP, ARB") but there is no "MDSP" option for FSK, either via the front panel or via SCPI command.  This seems to be an oversight limiting the usefulness of the FSK modulator.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Plasmateur on May 06, 2017, 12:22:27 pm
Tautech,

Any news on getting getting both channels to trigger from a remote command on the next firmware update?
I can ask but the factory is on a Chinese holiday for the next few days.

Sorry to keep buggin ya on this. Any update at all?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on May 06, 2017, 12:37:37 pm
Tautech,

Any news on getting getting both channels to trigger from a remote command on the next firmware update?
I can ask but the factory is on a Chinese holiday for the next few days.

Sorry to keep buggin ya on this. Any update at all?
I'll chase it up.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Electro Fan on May 06, 2017, 03:12:54 pm
I'm looking to purchase a SDG2042X as a gift for an engineering student. This would be my first experience with a Siglent product. Based on the specs the 2042X looks like a better performer with more features and overall it looks like a good value (not that much more expensive) vs. the SDG1025 and SDG1032X.  Just wanted to make sure after reading this thread (with questions/issues regarding 50 Ohm vs Hi Z output controls, etc., etc.) that the SDG2042X firmware is mature enough.

While the performance and features seem superior on the SDG2042X to the other two models maybe the 1025 or 1032 has firmware that would be more refined/reliable than the SDG2042X?  I'm sure an EE student can work through some firmware bugs but I wouldn't want to provide a unit that is overly quirky.  Any reason to consider the 1025 or 1032, or just go for the 2042?  Thx
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: ebclr on May 06, 2017, 03:56:22 pm
2042 is a great product, The firmware is quite stable, I didn't have any problem on firmware that stops using the product, The majority of issues are related to a not so user-friendly HMI, and a ridiculous set of alarms messages unessary, Othe than that the instrument is the best in this price range, 16 bit and 1.2 GS makes a Hugh difference to all others on this class.
But still a Chinese product, but is top class Chinese not poor one, but it's easy to see some details missing
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on May 06, 2017, 04:17:03 pm
I'm looking to purchase a SDG2042X as a gift for an engineering student. This would be my first experience with a Siglent product. Based on the specs the 2042X looks like a better performer with more features and overall it looks like a good value (not that much more expensive) vs. the SDG1025 and SDG1032X.  Just wanted to make sure after reading this thread (with questions/issues regarding 50 Ohm vs Hi Z output controls, etc., etc.) that the SDG2042X firmware is mature enough.

While the performance and features seem superior on the SDG2042X to the other two models maybe the 1025 or 1032 has firmware that would be more refined/reliable than the SDG2042X?  I'm sure an EE student can work through some firmware bugs but I wouldn't want to provide a unit that is overly quirky.  Any reason to consider the 1025 or 1032, or just go for the 2042?  Thx
Hi EF
Go through the datasheets, side by side.
Quick and simple overview.
2002X range is the best overall unit, 1002X models can do square to same frequency as sine and older 1k models have the 2nd channel amplitude limitation like many other brands.


All models have 50 \$\Omega\$ permanent outputs and the Hi-Z selection just toggles the display amplitude value to match the load. (50 \$\Omega\$ value is 1/2 HiZ)
Mentioned in the SDG1kX datasheet in a footnote for Output Characteristics on P8.

IMO for a $100 less than 2042X a 1032X need be carefully considered. It hasn't got all the bells and whistles of 2042X but square wave spec makes up for that.

Both X models have a fan. Many older 1K models do not.
X models have better signal fidelity.
1kX models are the latest series in the Siglent AWG family.

Yeah I know......decisions.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: ebclr on May 06, 2017, 04:44:20 pm
2042 can easily go to 120 Mhz, with only a few types on computer terminal, doing everything a SDG2122X in less than a minute
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on May 06, 2017, 04:52:37 pm
2042 can easily go to 120 Mhz, with only a few types on computer terminal, doing everything a SDG2122X in less than a minute
:)
What we do not know.......as yet, can the 1032X can be improved in the same way to SDG1062X ?  :-/O
Then we could have 60 MHz sine and square frequencies that will beat the 2122X square wave by 15 MHz.  :scared:
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: janekivi on May 06, 2017, 06:00:23 pm
We had a talk about this some time ago
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1032x-mini-teardown/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1032x-mini-teardown/)
but did someone try something
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: ebclr on May 06, 2017, 07:55:55 pm
1032X will go nowhere with only  150 MSa/s sampling
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: janekivi on May 08, 2017, 01:37:08 am
...........................
Then we could have 60 MHz sine and square frequencies that will beat the 2122X square wave by 15 MHz.  :scared:
by 35 MHz ?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: pigrew on May 08, 2017, 02:38:25 am
I keep wanting the 2122X to be able to output sine waves at above 120MHz,  with AM modulation. It looks like the AD9122 should be able to do it. The datasheet lists outputs at up to 375MHz. I'd bet that the 3dB point of the output filters/amp is at least 175MHz, if not higher.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: sdouble on May 08, 2017, 02:40:10 am
I own a SDG2042X and I mus say that i'm a bit disappointed.
I only use it with square waveforms and low to medium frequency. from 100Hz to 50kHz. My issues : the rise time and the noise level.
I use the square wave form to charge a pF capacitor and inject an integrator circuit (jFET input).
The cap is charge during every leading/trailing edge but the noisy plateaus are also affecting my integrator output.
The Rigol DG4062 behaves much better with that respect.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Electro Fan on May 08, 2017, 03:04:31 am
I own a SDG2042X and I mus say that i'm a bit disappointed.
I only use it with square waveforms and low to medium frequency. from 100Hz to 50kHz. My issues : the rise time and the noise level.
I use the square wave form to charge a pF capacitor and inject an integrator circuit (jFET input).
The cap is charge during every leading/trailing edge but the noisy plateaus are also affecting my integrator output.
The Rigol DG4062 behaves much better with that respect.

I thought relatively low noise was supposed to be a strong suit for the Siglent SDG 2X series; are you sure it's the SDG that is causing the noise?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: janekivi on May 08, 2017, 05:09:06 am
I keep wanting the 2122X to be able to output sine waves at above 120MHz,  with AM modulation. It looks like the AD9122 should be able to do it. The datasheet lists outputs at up to 375MHz. I'd bet that the 3dB point of the output filters/amp is at least 175MHz, if not higher.
Once I did expand some its limits in limit.xml file
but realized that the limits are set fair enough.
Beyond the limits the waveform is crap...
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/msg989922/#msg989922 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/msg989922/#msg989922)
But right now I don't remember,  I'm not sure about sine wave quality... and I only have 100 Mhz scope here
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: sdouble on May 08, 2017, 08:12:03 am
I own a SDG2042X and I mus say that i'm a bit disappointed.
I only use it with square waveforms and low to medium frequency. from 100Hz to 50kHz. My issues : the rise time and the noise level.
I use the square wave form to charge a pF capacitor and inject an integrator circuit (jFET input).
The cap is charge during every leading/trailing edge but the noisy plateaus are also affecting my integrator output.
The Rigol DG4062 behaves much better with that respect.

I thought relatively low noise was supposed to be a strong suit for the Siglent SDG 2X series; are you sure it's the SDG that is causing the noise?
absolutely.
same set up, i swap the sdg2042x for a dg4062 and  the noise is reduced by a factor of 3 approx.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Electro Fan on May 08, 2017, 08:49:57 am
I own a SDG2042X and I mus say that i'm a bit disappointed.
I only use it with square waveforms and low to medium frequency. from 100Hz to 50kHz. My issues : the rise time and the noise level.
I use the square wave form to charge a pF capacitor and inject an integrator circuit (jFET input).
The cap is charge during every leading/trailing edge but the noisy plateaus are also affecting my integrator output.
The Rigol DG4062 behaves much better with that respect.

I thought relatively low noise was supposed to be a strong suit for the Siglent SDG 2X series; are you sure it's the SDG that is causing the noise?
absolutely.
same set up, i swap the sdg2042x for a dg4062 and  the noise is reduced by a factor of 3 approx.

Roger that. 

You mentioned noise and rise time; in addition to the noise, the rise time doesn't meet the specs?

Any chance you can post some images showing the SigGen/DUT setup and the screen capture results (rise time and noise) from both the Siglent and the Rigol generated signals?  Maybe someone here with a Siglent can see if they get similar results.  Thx

Add-on thought/question:

In this other post (in the link below) there is a question regarding a potential difference in results depending on whether the DDS mode or the TrueArb mode is being used to generate a signal.  Just curious to see which mode you are using and if one or the other improves the rise time and/or the noise in your project?

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/dds-vs-truearb-something-is-wrong-or-dds-is-no-go-for-timing-sensitive-signal/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/dds-vs-truearb-something-is-wrong-or-dds-is-no-go-for-timing-sensitive-signal/)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: pigrew on May 08, 2017, 09:06:01 am
Once I did expand some its limits in limit.xml file
but realized that the limits are set fair enough.
Beyond the limits the waveform is crap...
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/msg989922/#msg989922 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/msg989922/#msg989922)
But right now I don't remember,  I'm not sure about sine wave quality... and I only have 100 Mhz scope here

What I was thinking about would require significant firmware changes, to enable the use of the NCO (numerically controlled oscillator) on the DAC chip. Currently, the FPGA is generating the data at up to 300 MSa/s to generate waveforms. However, the DAC can be programmed to generate a sine wave on its own, at higher frequencies, without the FPGA having to input samples that quickly, and modulate the input data at that carrier frequency. One disadvantage is that both channels have to be set to the same carrier frequency (or at least ones that are close together).

I'd like to be able to use the SDG2042X as a RF source at 128 MHz.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Electro Fan on May 08, 2017, 01:49:57 pm
Hi rf-loop,

Any chance you might have comparable numbers for the SDG2042X?  Thx, EF
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: MrW0lf on May 09, 2017, 12:01:32 am
Bricking alert!

My unit was running perfectly fine until did the following:

1) Firmware upgrade 22R5 => 23R3 (http://www.siglent.com/ENs/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=1880&tid=15), after successful upgrade just continued to use and did following:
2) Used EasyWave to send 8pts wfm, played around with DDS/TrueArb setting etc. Turned unit off while custom wfm was loaded.

Next day unit now shows blank screen after logo. Controls non-responsive. Parameter button is lit. Not recognized as USB device. But LAN shows functional login screen. Do not know user/pass.

:-// Since did 2 things first time (not used EW before) cannot be sure which activity bricked it. My first idea would be delete custom wfm. Maybe loading it at boot bricks it. But cannot get in....

Ordered online from siglent.eu quite a hassle sending it back etc... Since LAN is working maybe there is some trick to resurrect it? Can firmware be upgraded / downgraded over LAN? Reset procedure? Telnet user / pass?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: nugglix on May 09, 2017, 01:10:31 am
Ouch!
That sounds serious.

Thanks for notifying us.

Maybe you can leave a reference to your post in
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/)

Wish you all the luck you can get!
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: ebclr on May 09, 2017, 04:53:20 pm
They changed to need login on new firmware, I logged without user and password, on earlier release but now ask for login and password


===============================================
|SIGLENT SDG project
===============================================
(none) login:

Bastards...
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: flash2b on May 09, 2017, 08:40:51 pm
MrW0lf was your SDG hacked or still factory ?

Did any other have a problem with 23R3 ?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Electro Fan on May 09, 2017, 09:00:35 pm
They changed to need login on new firmware, I logged without user and password, on earlier release but now ask for login and password


===============================================
|SIGLENT SDG project
===============================================
(none) login:

Bastards...

Are you sure you need a login?

http://www.siglentamerica.com/prodcut-gjjrj.aspx?id=1364&tid=16&T=2 (http://www.siglentamerica.com/prodcut-gjjrj.aspx?id=1364&tid=16&T=2)

http://www.siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=5196&tid=16 (http://www.siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=5196&tid=16)

http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDG2000X_V200R001B01D01P23R3EE.rar (http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDG2000X_V200R001B01D01P23R3EE.rar)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: McBryce on May 09, 2017, 09:19:09 pm
Bricking alert!

My unit was running perfectly fine until did the following:

1) Firmware upgrade 22R5 => 23R3 (http://www.siglent.com/ENs/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=1880&tid=15), after successful upgrade just continued to use and did following:
2) Used EasyWave to send 8pts wfm, played around with DDS/TrueArb setting etc. Turned unit off while custom wfm was loaded.

Next day unit now shows blank screen after logo. Controls non-responsive. Parameter button is lit. Not recognized as USB device. But LAN shows functional login screen. Do not know user/pass.

:-// Since did 2 things first time (not used EW before) cannot be sure which activity bricked it. My first idea would be delete custom wfm. Maybe loading it at boot bricks it. But cannot get in....

Ordered online from siglent.eu quite a hassle sending it back etc... Since LAN is working maybe there is some trick to resurrect it? Can firmware be upgraded / downgraded over LAN? Reset procedure? Telnet user / pass?

Have you tried just booting with a USB stick with Firmware on it plugged in?

McBryce.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: ebclr on May 09, 2017, 09:26:02 pm
Login to access the instrument with telnet, not to access the firmware
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: McBryce on May 10, 2017, 12:11:08 am
Login to access the instrument with telnet, not to access the firmware

That was only possible on the old Firmware and he has already upgraded.

McBryce.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: MrW0lf on May 10, 2017, 01:24:49 am
Have you tried just booting with a USB stick with Firmware on it plugged in?

No luck :( FW upgrade works thru Utility menu where need to specify file name.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: ebclr on May 10, 2017, 01:37:31 am
Chose USB with rotary button, then Files on USB will show
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: MrW0lf on May 10, 2017, 07:11:11 am
Chose USB with rotary button, then Files on USB will show

Screen / buttons / USB connection are completely dead... Tomorrow will try send commands over LAN/LXI... maybe it works since Telnet is online.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: invzim on May 10, 2017, 07:34:57 am
Quite happy with the unit, but after a few weeks it seems like the led's have given up.  I thought at first it was some wonky firmware issue, until I found the LEDTest.

I haven't actually bothered to open the unit up yet to check if there is a loose connector, but it has been stationary on my desk all the time so would be a little odd.

Anyone else experienced this?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: pascal_sweden on May 10, 2017, 10:09:23 am
Can someone please confirm or deny this noise issue?
I have been following this thread for a very long time, and this is the first time I hear about it.

My perception up to now:
Low noise level and high resolution (16 bit).
Much better performance than any of the Rigol models that use DDS.

It doesn't make sense that Siglent would do all this effort in using a 16 bit D/A converter,
and at the same time screw up the noise levels.

Therefore I am doubtful about the reported noise issues.

I own a SDG2042X and I mus say that i'm a bit disappointed.
I only use it with square waveforms and low to medium frequency. from 100Hz to 50kHz. My issues : the rise time and the noise level.
I use the square wave form to charge a pF capacitor and inject an integrator circuit (jFET input).
The cap is charge during every leading/trailing edge but the noisy plateaus are also affecting my integrator output.
The Rigol DG4062 behaves much better with that respect.

I thought relatively low noise was supposed to be a strong suit for the Siglent SDG 2X series; are you sure it's the SDG that is causing the noise?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on May 10, 2017, 11:17:50 am
Quite happy with the unit, but after a few weeks it seems like the led's have given up.  I thought at first it was some wonky firmware issue, until I found the LEDTest.

I haven't actually bothered to open the unit up yet to check if there is a loose connector, but it has been stationary on my desk all the time so would be a little odd.

Anyone else experienced this?
Never heard of failed LED's before.  :-//
If you have had it only a short time from new it will be a warranty repair, please contact your local supplier to start the warranty process.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: fonograph on May 11, 2017, 05:27:13 am
What would be good step up from Siglent SDG2000X series? I spend whole day today looking at Keysight and Rohde & Schwarz and I didnt found anything superior to Siglent.You might think thats crazy but I swear I didnt find anything that I would get over Siglent even if I had infinite money.

The problems is all the high end generators are aimed at microwave freqencies,I dont need 40 gigaHertz,also they have low output power around 2v peak to peak and their minimum freqency is many times 9khz or even 100khz .Only thing I found that is like the Siglent  is 33600A Series,but it have only 14bit DAC,the standart memory is 4mg,less than siglent and output power falls rapidly at higher freqencies compared to siglent and it cost 5k+ vs 500 for Siglent ( becose it can be hacked easily )

I looked at Rohde Schwarz stuff,but it was either old stuff with tiny kilosample memory or for me useless microwave stuff with low power output.


I want = high output power,abilily to play low freqencies down to 20hz,low harmonic/inharmonic/intermodulation distortion,low noise,big memory,100mhz bandwidth,modern unit

I dont want = low output power,inability to play lower than 9khz,12bit DAC,60ghz bandwidth,year of release 2005
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: pigrew on May 11, 2017, 05:48:32 am


What would be good step up from Siglent SDG2000X series? I spend whole day today looking at Keysight and Rohde & Schwarz and I didnt found anything superior to Siglent.You might think thats crazy but I swear I didnt find anything that I would get over Siglent even if I had infinite money.


I want = high output power,abilily to play low freqencies down to 20hz,low harmonic/inharmonic/intermodulation distortion,low noise,big memory,100mhz bandwidth,modern unit

I dont want = low output power,inability to play lower than 9khz,12bit DAC,60ghz bandwidth,year of release 2005

What do you want that the SDG2042X does not provide?

Personally, I like the Tektronix AFG3000 series, though that's because I'm working at around 150MHz.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on May 11, 2017, 06:36:50 am
What would be good step up from Siglent SDG2000X series? I spend whole day today looking at Keysight and Rohde & Schwarz and I didnt found anything superior to Siglent.You might think thats crazy but I swear I didnt find anything that I would get over Siglent even if I had infinite money.

The problems is all the high end generators are aimed at microwave freqencies,I dont need 40 gigaHertz,also they have low output power around 2v peak to peak and their minimum freqency is many times 9khz or even 100khz .Only thing I found that is like the Siglent  is 33600A Series,but it have only 14bit DAC,the standart memory is 4mg,less than siglent and output power falls rapidly at higher freqencies compared to siglent and it cost 5k+ vs 500 for Siglent ( becose it can be hacked easily )

I looked at Rohde Schwarz stuff,but it was either old stuff with tiny kilosample memory or for me useless microwave stuff with low power output.


I want = high output power,abilily to play low freqencies down to 20hz,low harmonic/inharmonic/intermodulation distortion,low noise,big memory,100mhz bandwidth,modern unit

I dont want = low output power,inability to play lower than 9khz,12bit DAC,60ghz bandwidth,year of release 2005

Will the Siglent AWG SPA1010 power amp have enough grunt ?
Product page
http://siglentamerica.com/prodcut-fjxx.aspx?fjid=1289&id=1364&tid=16&T=2 (http://siglentamerica.com/prodcut-fjxx.aspx?fjid=1289&id=1364&tid=16&T=2)

(http://www.siglent.com/Uploadfile/image/20150417/%E5%8A%9F%E7%8E%87%E6%94%BE%E5%A4%A7%E5%99%A82.jpg)

Manual
http://www.siglent.com/2014EnglishWebsite/Documents/UserManual/SPA1000_UserManual_UM60010-E01A.pdf (http://www.siglent.com/2014EnglishWebsite/Documents/UserManual/SPA1000_UserManual_UM60010-E01A.pdf)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: StillTrying on May 11, 2017, 07:48:41 am
Will the Siglent AWG SPA1010 power amp have enough grunt ?
5,184 x 3,456 pixels 3,730,076 bytes. I wish my PC and internet had more grunt.  :)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on May 11, 2017, 07:55:23 am
Will the Siglent AWG SPA1010 power amp have enough grunt ?
5,184 x 3,456 pixels 3,730,076 bytes. I wish my PC and internet had more grunt.  :)
Posting linked imagery from Siglent sites doesn't seem to stress the speed of which a page downloads here.  :-//
Sure, if the image file was used........... :scared:

Slow for you guys ?

(I'm on a slow ass connection and very conscious of adding large imagery to posts  :-- )
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: StillTrying on May 11, 2017, 08:00:05 am
"Posting linked imagery from Siglent sites doesn't seem to stress the speed of which a page downloads here."

The image is probably in your browser's cache, 3.6MB should not be a problem for me, but for some reason it was a very slow load - well over a minute.

"I'm on a slow ass connection and very conscious of adding large imagery to posts."
Same here, an occasional one doesn't matter too much.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on May 11, 2017, 08:04:16 am
"Posting linked imagery from Siglent sites doesn't seem to stress the speed of which a page downloads here."

The image is probably in your browser's cache, 3.6MB should not be a problem for me, but for some reason it was a very slow load - well over a minute.
Hmmm, OK ta.
Had a nagging thought about that, makes perfect sense.

Some pic editing needed before posting next time.  :)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: nctnico on May 11, 2017, 09:34:20 am
The server the image is on is very slow. I'm on 50Mbit/s internet and the image comes in at snail speed.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on May 11, 2017, 09:46:05 am
The server the image is on is very slow. I'm on 50Mbit/s internet and the image comes in at snail speed.
Haha, try 1.7Mb/s that mine is.

It's from the US, try the one from the Hamburg site:
http://www.siglenteu.com/prodcut-fjxx.aspx?fjid=1044&id=1115&tid=16&T=2 (http://www.siglenteu.com/prodcut-fjxx.aspx?fjid=1044&id=1115&tid=16&T=2)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bb1 on May 11, 2017, 10:22:18 am
The SDG2000X waveforms use 16 bit signed values for the samples. The maximum value is 32767, and the minimum value is -32768.
I created short waveform of 15 samples with values increasing from -7 to 7 in steps of one.
I set SDG2000X output amplitude to 20 V. In this case the output waveform should have steps with one step value about 0.3 mV. To see such small steps clearly, I used 10000 averages by TDS684 scope. The results are shown in attached tek_adc-7to7_DDsArb_15ms_ampl20Vpk-pk.png and tek_adc-7to7_trueArb_15ms_ampl20Vpk-pk.png.
   
One can see that in both DDS and TrueArb modes the output is wrong at the center of the waveform, where is should cross zero (the actual output is larger than zero due to output offset).
My firmware version is 2.01.01.22R5.
Is this bug fixed in the latest SDG2000X firmware ?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on May 11, 2017, 11:00:36 am
The SDG2000X waveforms use 16 bit signed values for the samples. The maximum value is 32767, and the minimum value is -32768.
I created short waveform of 15 samples with values increasing from -7 to 7 in steps of one.
I set SDG2000X output amplitude to 20 V. In this case the output waveform should have steps with one step value about 0.3 mV. To see such small steps clearly, I used 10000 averages by TDS684 scope. The results are shown in attached tek_adc-7to7_DDsArb_15ms_ampl20Vpk-pk.png and tek_adc-7to7_trueArb_15ms_ampl20Vpk-pk.png.
   
One can see that in both DDS and TrueArb modes the output is wrong at the center of the waveform, where is should cross zero (the actual output is larger than zero due to output offset).
My firmware version is 2.01.01.22R5.
Is this bug fixed in the latest SDG2000X firmware ?
Welcome to the forum.

I think they have been......mentioned in 6a in the changelog.
Listed here and FW download link included:
http://siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=5196&tid=15 (http://siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=5196&tid=15)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Electro Fan on May 11, 2017, 12:21:04 pm
The SDG2000X waveforms use 16 bit signed values for the samples. The maximum value is 32767, and the minimum value is -32768.
I created short waveform of 15 samples with values increasing from -7 to 7 in steps of one.
I set SDG2000X output amplitude to 20 V. In this case the output waveform should have steps with one step value about 0.3 mV. To see such small steps clearly, I used 10000 averages by TDS684 scope. The results are shown in attached tek_adc-7to7_DDsArb_15ms_ampl20Vpk-pk.png and tek_adc-7to7_trueArb_15ms_ampl20Vpk-pk.png.
   
One can see that in both DDS and TrueArb modes the output is wrong at the center of the waveform, where is should cross zero (the actual output is larger than zero due to output offset).
My firmware version is 2.01.01.22R5.
Is this bug fixed in the latest SDG2000X firmware ?
Welcome to the forum.

I think they have been......mentioned in 6a in the changelog.
Listed here and FW download link included:
http://siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=5196&tid=15 (http://siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=5196&tid=15)

If the unit can be successfully updated to the latest firmware please let us know if it corrects the matter in either or both modes.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: MrW0lf on May 11, 2017, 06:11:14 pm
Siglent AWG SPA1010 power amp have enough grunt ?

Similar option I use:
http://www.aimtti.com/product-category/waveform-amplifiers/aim-wa301 (http://www.aimtti.com/product-category/waveform-amplifiers/aim-wa301)
(http://www.aimtti.com/sites/default/files/image/large/wa301-700.jpg)
Often when find some cool far-out science article theres WA301 attached to DUT. Couldnt resist. Now I feel like real scientist!  8)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Amazing on May 12, 2017, 01:15:51 pm
Is it possible to somehow combine burst and sweep on this unit?

I would like to generate a signal that is quiet for a period of time, and then has a sweep from 10MHz to 40MHz, and then goes quiet again, etc. 

I'm attempting to replicate the results on page 9 of this Keysight PDF:

http://literature.cdn.keysight.com/litweb/pdf/5992-1094EN.pdf?id=2653300 (http://literature.cdn.keysight.com/litweb/pdf/5992-1094EN.pdf?id=2653300)

Of course I can't do 300MHz to 900Mhz on the SD2042X, but I think that 10MHz to 40MHz would serve to demonstrate the feature.

Firmware: 2.01.01.17R5

Thanks!


Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on May 12, 2017, 02:43:59 pm
Is it possible to somehow combine burst and sweep on this unit?

I would like to generate a signal that is quiet for a period of time, and then has a sweep from 10MHz to 40MHz, and then goes quiet again, etc. 

I'm attempting to replicate the results on page 9 of this Keysight PDF:

http://literature.cdn.keysight.com/litweb/pdf/5992-1094EN.pdf?id=2653300 (http://literature.cdn.keysight.com/litweb/pdf/5992-1094EN.pdf?id=2653300)

Of course I can't do 300MHz to 900Mhz on the SD2042X, but I think that 10MHz to 40MHz would serve to demonstrate the feature.

Firmware: 2.01.01.17R5

Thanks!
You should update the firmware in your unit, 17R5 is an old version now.
23R3 is current and you can see the list of  the last updated and fixed features here:
http://siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=5196&tid=15 (http://siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=5196&tid=15)

In the download there will be a list of all versions and what has been added an/or fixed which has been enough over time for Siglent to have released an updated manual very recently:
http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Documents/UserManual/SDG2000X_UserManual_UM0202X-E02B.pdf (http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Documents/UserManual/SDG2000X_UserManual_UM0202X-E02B.pdf)

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: MrW0lf on May 12, 2017, 06:03:47 pm
23R3 is current and you can see the list of  the last updated and fixed features here:

...make sure you power cycle the unit after fw update... just in case...
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Amazing on May 12, 2017, 09:31:46 pm
Thanks for the links, Tautech.  I read through the updated manual and change log and will be updating soon. 

Unfortunately it looks like the unit cannot produce the waveform that I want.  if the channel combining feature had a multiply (VCA) operation then I think I could do it.

Still a great little unit though.

...make sure you power cycle the unit after fw update... just in case...

Will do.  Sorry to hear about your troubles, I hope you get that worked out.  There should be an initial factory programming procedure that you can follow, assuming you can get hold of it.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on May 12, 2017, 10:59:25 pm
Thanks for the links, Tautech.  I read through the updated manual and change log and will be updating soon. 

Unfortunately it looks like the unit cannot produce the waveform that I want.  if the channel combining feature had a multiply (VCA) operation then I think I could do it.

Still a great little unit though.

...make sure you power cycle the unit after fw update... just in case...
Will do.  Sorry to hear about your troubles, I hope you get that worked out.  There should be an initial factory programming procedure that you can follow, assuming you can get hold of it.
Occasionally we hear about update problems but I never have them but I install updates on new units that are straight out of the box and set to factory defaults. I have started a dialogue with Siglent about this suggesting that all update instructions state FW updates be performed after the unit has been restored to factory default settings.
I've had NO acknowledgement that this might be the case for the zero update problems I have seen over several hundreds of updates that I have installed so without confirmation that I might be on o something the best advice I can give is to apply factory defaults before updating FW.
Until otherwise is advised or instructed in update instructions as I have asked Siglent to do, set the unit to factory defaults before updating FW to be very sure of extremely low risk of any update problem.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: pigrew on May 14, 2017, 06:13:43 am
I recently received my "Amazon Warehouse Deal" SDG2042X. Unfortunately, it has a problem starting up.

Often, it displays a black screen when turned on. However, if I turn off,  wait about one second, and then turn it back on, it boots properly. If the wait time is too short or too long, it will remain on a black screen.

It was shipped with firmware 22, and has been upgraded to firmware 23. Otherwise, the unit functions normally. Rebooting works properly; the issue is only triggered when the power is cut.

My best guess is that there is a soldering issue of a decoupling capacitor somewhere.

If I break the warranty seal, is the warranty voided?

EDIT: Also, the unit came with a cal cert whole serial number did not match the unit delivered. Do other's calibration certificates have the proper generator serial number? Also, it didn't list the frequency reference used in the calibration, only a multimeter and a power meter.

Really shaky video of the unit not starting up (https://youtu.be/45m3PX49meo).

 (most boring video on YouTube; I must invest in a cellphone tripod mount.)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on May 14, 2017, 07:05:23 am
I recently received my "Amazon Warehouse Deal" SDG2042X. Unfortunately, it has a problem starting up.

Often, it displays a black screen when turned on. However, if I turn off,  wait about one second, and then turn it back on, it boots properly. If the wait time is too short or too long, it will remain on a black screen.

It was shipped with firmware 22, and has been upgraded to firmware 23. Otherwise, the unit functions normally. Rebooting works properly; the issue is only triggered when the power is cut.

My best guess is that there is a soldering issue of a decoupling capacitor somewhere.

If I break the warranty seal, is the warranty voided?

EDIT: Also, the unit came with a cal cert whole serial number did not match the unit delivered. Do other's calibration certificates have the proper generator serial number? Also, it didn't list the frequency reference used in the calibration, only a multimeter and a power meter.
Why does this stuff always come up on the weekend.  :rant:
No there's some problem with this unit, and I'll point tech support to this post but it'll be ~30 hrs before I get a reply.

Regarding the Cal cert........can I ask if the factory box had previously been opened ?
2 layers of tape closing the box is the giveaway.
I'm just thinking if someone opened some boxes of these and mixed up the manual packs as they enclose the Cal cert, little info like this can determine if it happened at the factory or later.

Anyways, it's faulty IMO and need be replaced so don't open it please. Continue using it until the factory recommendation comes through.

Thanks for pointing this out.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: pigrew on May 14, 2017, 07:12:41 am

Regarding the Cal cert........can I ask if the factory box had previously been opened ?
2 layers of tape closing the box is the giveaway.
I'm just thinking if someone opened some boxes of these and mixed up the manual packs as they enclose the Cal cert, little info like this can determine if it happened at the factory or later.

Anyways, it's faulty IMO and need be replaced so don't open it please. Continue using it until the factory recommendation comes through.

Thanks for pointing this out.

I purchased it "used" from Amazon. Someone else must have encountered the problem and returned it, and then Amazon thought it looked ok and resold it to me at a discount. It did not come in its original box, however otherwise it appeared new, with the screen protector still on it, in a heavy duty clear bag with silica gel, packed with a BNC cable and a power cable. The certificate it shipped is dated December 11 2016. Perhaps Amazon could have mixed them up? I don't know.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on May 14, 2017, 07:35:16 am

Regarding the Cal cert........can I ask if the factory box had previously been opened ?
2 layers of tape closing the box is the giveaway.
I'm just thinking if someone opened some boxes of these and mixed up the manual packs as they enclose the Cal cert, little info like this can determine if it happened at the factory or later.

Anyways, it's faulty IMO and need be replaced so don't open it please. Continue using it until the factory recommendation comes through.

Thanks for pointing this out.

I purchased it "used" from Amazon. Someone else must have encountered the problem and returned it, and then Amazon thought it looked ok and resold it to me at a discount. It did not come in its original box, however otherwise it appeared new, with the screen protector still on it, in a heavy duty clear bag with silica gel, packed with a BNC cable and a power cable. The certificate it shipped is dated December 11 2016. Perhaps Amazon could have mixed them up? I don't know.
Cool, making more sense now. It would seem that Amazon staff did not recognise the fault, yep they probably wouldn't know any better.
Missing USB cable too ?
Manual and CD present ?

I've sent mail to the factory and US GM, they'll sort it for you.  ;)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: EmbeddedTec on May 24, 2017, 10:53:43 pm
I just received my second SDG2042X today.
Overall a very nice device, but Siglent seems to have a little quality assurance problem at the moment.

Maybe I accidentally ordered a unit for inverted signals only     :-DD
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: McBryce on May 24, 2017, 11:04:28 pm
I just received my second SDG2042X today.
Overall a very nice device, but Siglent seems to have a little quality assurance problem at the moment.

Maybe I accidentally ordered a unit for inverted signals only     :-DD

They've obviously sent you a device that was meant for Australia.

McBryce.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Siglent America on May 27, 2017, 12:26:28 am
Actually, we changed the orientation of the rubber feet (for what reason I don't know) so you're two units must have come from different production batches.
But I did like the Australian comment.....
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: flash2b on May 27, 2017, 01:34:47 am
My unit has same orientation of the rubber feed as the new unit shown above (as well as my Rigol DP832A). My unit is now about 6 month old.

Swap the old unit feed left to right an vice versa and you have soved it.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: pascal_sweden on May 27, 2017, 02:39:15 am
The rubber feet that come out indented should be on the bottom. That's why they are called feet in the first place.

It must be a mistake in the factory.

Don't think the answer from Siglent above is correct. Have you checked with the factory, or did you just write that it is a change in production? Mistake in production you mean :)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Siglent America on May 27, 2017, 02:54:58 am
My answer was correct.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Electro Fan on May 27, 2017, 05:03:05 am
Most product photos show the indents on the bottom and the raised tabs (that lock into the indents) on the top.

However, the clearance of the bale (when it is tucked under the chassis) will be slightly greater if the raised tabs are on the bottom, otherwise the bale might be resting on the bench rather than having some clearance and allowing the chassis to rest on the rubber bumper feet with the additional clearance given by the raised tabs.  Probably no big deal, one way or the other, just an observation.  Might also depend on some unit to unit manufacturing variances.

One other micro adjustment consideration is that if the front bumpers are not fully extended (last mm or so) before they are tightened down with the torx screws, the rotating/depress knob might not be protected from hitting the bench if chassis is placed face down on the bench.  Even when the bumpers are fully extended the clearance of the rotating/depress knob is very small.  Given the small clearance of the rotating/depress knob it might be better not to place the chassis face down.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: pascal_sweden on May 27, 2017, 05:50:59 am
So in the new design, the feet are no longer feet. They are heads instead of feeds.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on May 27, 2017, 05:59:25 am
So in the new design, the feet are no longer feet. They are heads instead of feeds.
We discussed this in some thread a while back, the feet/bumpers can be flipped but IIRC there was a small mod required to have the bumpers fit the case nice and snug in the flipped orientation.

The factory may have changed the rubber casting slightly to allow them to be flipped......this I haven't physically checked.

Edit
Discussion of the rubber feet:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg1016306/#msg1016306 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg1016306/#msg1016306)

The mod required:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg1023105/#msg1023105 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg1023105/#msg1023105)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Electro Fan on May 27, 2017, 11:27:21 am
So in the new design, the feet are no longer feet. They are heads instead of feeds.
We discussed this in some thread a while back, the feet/bumpers can be flipped but IIRC there was a small mod required to have the bumpers fit the case nice and snug in the flipped orientation.

The factory may have changed the rubber casting slightly to allow them to be flipped......this I haven't physically checked.

Edit
Discussion of the rubber feet:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg1016306/#msg1016306 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg1016306/#msg1016306)

The mod required:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg1023105/#msg1023105 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg1023105/#msg1023105)

---

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg1074803/#msg1074803 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg1074803/#msg1074803)

- the plastic horns are upside down comparing to my SDG2042X, therefore it was impossible to stack these on top of each other (I resolved by flipping the horns upside down on SDG2042X, but one of the screw nuts just falled inside the casing.


.... presumably if there are nuts that secure the screws for the rubber feet/bumpers those nuts would be adhered to the inside of the chassis so they couldn't fall loose while flipping or adjusting the rubber feet/bumper (and create a short inside the chassis), right?  i.e., those nuts are captive, correct? 

(If the nuts aren't captive it wouldn't make sense to suggest that users should flip the bumpers around without pointing out the potential for causing nuts to fall loose in the chassis).
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on May 27, 2017, 11:49:12 am

.... presumably if there are nuts that secure the screws for the rubber feet/bumpers those nuts would be adhered to the inside of the chassis so they couldn't fall loose while flipping or adjusting the rubber feet/bumper (and create a short inside the chassis), right?  i.e., those nuts are captive, correct? 

(If the nuts aren't captive it wouldn't make sense to suggest that users should flip the bumpers around without pointing out the potential for causing nuts to fall loose in the chassis).
It's a while since I had those feet/bumpers off and IIRC the nuts are captured in the outer cover.
I wanted to see if previous models to X series could be retrofitted with the X feet but older models use different feet and a different fixing scheme.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Spaghetti_142 on May 28, 2017, 02:49:07 pm
Hi Gaurav,
My question I have for you is there or do you have access to the 178R5 fimware or earlier, so I can hack mine to 120Mhz. If you have a copy or link please send it to me via email an attachment. I would greatly appreciate if you can help in anyway. I bought mine just a couple months to late.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: rf-loop on May 28, 2017, 03:44:54 pm
Hi Gaurav,
My question I have for you is there or do you have access to the 178R5 fimware or earlier,

It (1.17R5)  is available from Siglent official download side. Only need read and look bit more than 5 seconds..

http://siglenteu.com/gjjrj.aspx?id=15&page=4 (http://siglenteu.com/gjjrj.aspx?id=15&page=4)

Also there is even earlier versions

Also here is 17R5 (http://www.siglent.fi\data\SDG2000X\SDG2000X-P17R5.rar)


Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: avionicpl on May 31, 2017, 11:35:09 pm
Hello everyone!  :D

My new SDG2042X had another "lock". Every time I enable DHCP, it shows all zeros in IP, mask, gateway (i.e. 0.0.0.0). Connection with the LAN shows "network connected, problem" in Windows 7 x64. So I thought I cannot telnet it anyway.

New day came with new idea. I switched to Ubuntu and created DHCP on laptop (SDG2042X had DHCP disabled). Manual IP entry for SDG2042X allowed me to telnet it without further problems (many thanks to "eevblog" 17R5  :-+). After upgrade and update, enabling DHCP from SDG2042X still does not work though...

...but I don't need it anymore. Thank you ALL :) for all the knowledge! :clap:
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Dwaine on June 01, 2017, 05:33:37 am
I have the same problem.  I have to try DHCP multiple times and then the device finally gets an IP address.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: vk2amv on June 06, 2017, 08:56:43 pm
many thanks to "eevblog" 17R5

Did your generator have a newer firmware and you downgraded to 17R5 for the hack?

I plan to pull the trigger on a SDG2042X next week from Trio Test & Measurement in Sydney.

I also plan to do the 120Mhz hack/upgrade.
Honestly I am not interested in buying the Siglent unless I can hack it. (Also planning on buying the Siglent SSA3021X Spectrum Analyzer in July, and if I could not hack that I would not buy it at all either)

I just want to double and triple check that even if the unit I buy comes with the latest firmware I can still downgrade it to do the hack and then re-upgrade as pervious people have done?

Thanks
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Safar on June 13, 2017, 09:57:51 pm
Connection with the LAN shows "network connected, problem" in Windows 7 x64. So I thought I cannot telnet it anyway.

Sorry for stupid question, but what is your network topology? How you connect Gen? Is DHCP server (service) exist? What in DHCP server logs?

If you connect Gen directly to Win PC then there no DHCP server in segment by default. Gen have no server, client only. You should set addresses manually in Gen and PC in one subnet.

192.168.1.2/255.255.255.0 and 192.168.1.1/255.255.255.0 for example.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: ebclr on June 15, 2017, 01:29:37 pm
"My new SDG2042X had another "lock". Every time I enable DHCP"

Turn off wait a min and turn on, on the boot up process they will ask your router DHCP for a IP, if you just turn DHCP nothing will happen
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Dwaine on June 15, 2017, 08:38:18 pm
Yep.  You will be fine to use the downgrade firmware and bump it up higher.  Than upgrade the firmware to the latest version. 

You will be happy with this unit.  It's excellent for the money. Siglent really hit a home run with this one.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: avionicpl on June 20, 2017, 08:19:03 pm
Sorry for late reply. My mailbox hacked me! eevblog.com suddenly went into spam  :-[
Quote from: vk2amv
Did your generator have a newer firmware and you downgraded to 17R5 for the hack?
Yes. I downgraded for the hack and upgraded again thereafter.
Quote from: Safar
Sorry for stupid question, but what is your network topology? How you connect Gen? Is DHCP server (service) exist? What in DHCP server logs?

If you connect Gen directly to Win PC then there no DHCP server in segment by default. Gen have no server, client only. You should set addresses manually in Gen and PC in one subnet.

192.168.1.2/255.255.255.0 and 192.168.1.1/255.255.255.0 for example.
You are right! At first I didn't know that SDG DHCP means "automatic IP from DHCP" and I thought it is either manual or SDG has DHCP built in. Your question was not stupid. It was me who was stupid here :D Now I know what was going on. Anyway - I did the hack with Ubuntu DHCP server with direct connect (no gateway) to SDG.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: flash2b on June 20, 2017, 11:13:39 pm
I am wondering why you cannot see on the screen if the Siglent SDG external clock is switched on or off on the main screen. Siglent did implement the "Phase Lock" lock-icon so they could add another lock-icon next to this for the exernal clock indication. On comparison, the Rigol DG series shows "Ext" on the screen when external clock is switched on.

May be Siglent should add this to the backlog for future firmware, that would be great.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Safar on June 21, 2017, 08:57:11 am
Anyway - I did the hack with Ubuntu DHCP server with direct connect (no gateway) to SDG.

Ubuntu is a good OS, but Win have a lot of software that are not in Linux. You can use any third-party DHCP server on Win, Open DHCP for ex.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Plasmateur on June 23, 2017, 09:22:23 am
I have a few questions about EasyWave and the SDG2042X.

I'm trying to generate the following signal.

f = cos(2pi*3.9e7) + cos(2pi*4e7)

It's basically a mixed 39MHz and a 40MHz sine wave.

The only way I've been able to do this through EasyWave is by doing the following,

1.) Create new wave with the following
Select SDG2000X box
Set samples to something high - 8,000,000
Setting the period to 1us.

2.) Draw - Equation Draw
equation draw formula is cos(x*39)+cos(x*40)

3.) Send wave to the SDG2042X


What I see on a spectrum analyzer appears to be 39MHz and 40MHz, but there are other frequencies present about 30dB lower. I was hoping this would be a bit cleaner.

I was also hoping it would be a bit easier to just combine frequencies by adjusting the number of periods and combining two waves, however adjusting the period is not possible as it is greyed out.

I'd rather just create the wave in Matlab and import that into the SDG2042X.

How can I clean this mixed frequency signal up so I just see two peaks at 39MHz and 40MHz on my spectrum analyzer?


Also, this is probably the 4th time I've asked this. And I've been pretty patient.
Is it going to be possible to trigger the two channels from a single software trigger in the next firmware update?

 
 
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: pigrew on June 23, 2017, 12:32:58 pm
I have a few questions about EasyWave and the SDG2042X.

I'm trying to generate the following signal.

f = cos(2pi*3.9e7) + cos(2pi*4e7)

Could you describe where the spurious signals appear? Are they IM3/IM5? Or are they at some other frequency?

I don't have a spectrum analyzer, but I would suggest trying the following:

1) Use the internal CH1+CH2 mode, and check how clean the output is. By this, I mean set CH1 to 39 MHz and CH2 to 40 MHz. In the Utility->Output Setup->Wave Combine, set CH1 := CH1 + CH2

Is the result clean? If not, it's likely that the analog output amplifier. If they are, then you should be able to get the output displaying properly.

If it actually is able to cleanly output the sum, then you need to tune your ARB better. The goal is to have an integer multiple of both 39 MHz and 40 MHz periods in the waveform. Firstly, you should decide on the sample rate. Unfortunately, we are limited to 300 MSa/s. It would have been nice to choose a sample rate which is an integer multiple of both fundamental frequencies an use TrueARB mode.

So, we must use DDS mode. I would suggest using Matlab to generate the ARB sequence, and output it in the CSV format that the generator can load. First, choose some number of samples per period of the 40 MHz sine wave (48 is probably a good number). Create a list of the samples of a sine wave with that many samples per period, and the list for the 39 MHz at the same sampling rate.

I wrote a quick Matlab script, which I'm attaching, though I don't know if it'll produce anything better that what you've been able to do. Note that for this particular pair of frequencies, you should play the ARB at 1 MHz in DDS mode.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Plasmateur on June 23, 2017, 12:46:51 pm
Ahhh sweet bro!

I didn't know all I needed to do was generate a csv file. Awesome. This will be fun tuning.

Without using EasyWave, do I need to put the csv file on a flash drive and load it into the front USB port of the SDG2042X? (seems like this is a potential work around to the 40MHz limit without cracking the device). Also, my equipment is not in front of me, so I'll have to do this tomorrow in the lab. I can check on the IM3/IM5 then.



Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: pigrew on June 23, 2017, 01:02:38 pm
Ahhh sweet bro!

I didn't know all I needed to do was generate a csv file. Awesome. This will be fun tuning.

Without using EasyWave, do I need to put the csv file on a flash drive and load it into the front USB port of the SDG2042X? (seems like this is a potential work around to the 40MHz limit without cracking the device). Also, my equipment is not in front of me, so I'll have to do this tomorrow in the lab. I can check on the IM3/IM5 then.
The CSV file format isn't well documented anywhere that I can find.  All of the examples I found from Siglent also specified the amplitude and frequency (which I usually don't what linked to the waveform data).

Yes, use USB flash to transfer the file. After loading the save/recall menu, load the CSV file which copies it to to the internal storage.

And I've been able to output up to about 135 MHz by using ARB patterns. The amplitude sharply declines above that frequency. (128 MHz is very useful for the medical MRI field)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on June 23, 2017, 02:21:30 pm
Ahhh sweet bro!

I didn't know all I needed to do was generate a csv file. Awesome. This will be fun tuning.

Without using EasyWave, do I need to put the csv file on a flash drive and load it into the front USB port of the SDG2042X? (seems like this is a potential work around to the 40MHz limit without cracking the device). Also, my equipment is not in front of me, so I'll have to do this tomorrow in the lab. I can check on the IM3/IM5 then.
There's a bit of specialised usage advice in the FAQ link on the SDG2kX Siglent product page:
http://www.siglentamerica.com/prodcut-pxzl.aspx?id=1364&tid=16&T=2 (http://www.siglentamerica.com/prodcut-pxzl.aspx?id=1364&tid=16&T=2)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: jjoonathan on June 25, 2017, 11:29:36 pm
The internal CH1+CH2 looks much cleaner (55dB SFDR vs 30dB), but I don't know if there's a different reason why that mode is unsuitable. Other than being squirreled away under Utilities > Output Setup > Wave Combine. They go to all the effort to make a friendly graphical diagram for the mode and then hide it away  :palm:

https://goo.gl/photos/uq5LBnGEsz7Ja48D9

EDIT: actual dB numbers
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: pigrew on June 26, 2017, 03:51:32 am
The internal CH1+CH2 looks much cleaner (55dB SFDR vs 30dB), but I don't know if there's a different reason why that mode is unsuitable. Other than being squirreled away under Utilities > Output Setup > Wave Combine. They go to all the effort to make a friendly graphical diagram for the mode and then hide it away  :palm:

The disadvantage of the combine mode is that you can't use CH2 for anything else.  I don't know why it would be cleaner than ARB. Did you try the waveform I posted?

I'm assuming that the DDS mode is working at 300 MS/s, though I don't know for sure. The internal sine generator could use the DAC's internal oscillator, perhaps at a higher sample rate, but because of the low pass filter, I wouldn't expect this to create much of a difference. One difference could be if sinc interpolation of toggled on in one mode and off in the other. It'd be interesting to be able to toggle DAC interpolation on and off.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: colorado.rob on June 28, 2017, 11:52:55 am
Just got in my GPSDO as a lab reference and decided to hook it up to the SDG2000X after it settled for a bit.  I have been feeding it into the frequency counter to get a feel for the reference accuracy on the Siglent.  I could clearly see the slight drift during warm-up of the signal gen, having started the counter on a cold start.  After a few hous it has been pretty solid at +0.33ppm (reading the 10MHz signal at -.33ppm) and drifting no more than about 0.04ppm

1. Is it possible to use this data to better calibrate the SDG2000X? The only calibration instructions I have found is for the touch screen.
2. I would really love to see a graph of the frequency counter rather than having to capture the data via SCPI and write code to display it.  Any chance of getting this enhancement? (I see I'm not the first to ask for it.)



Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: colorado.rob on June 28, 2017, 11:57:11 am
The internal CH1+CH2 looks much cleaner (55dB SFDR vs 30dB), but I don't know if there's a different reason why that mode is unsuitable. Other than being squirreled away under Utilities > Output Setup > Wave Combine. They go to all the effort to make a friendly graphical diagram for the mode and then hide it away  :palm:

Is there an SCPI manual for the SDG2000X yet?  I've been referred to the SDG1000 SCPI manual but it seems incomplete.  It does not appear to have any instructions for Wave Combine documented.  I *need* this.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on June 28, 2017, 01:13:18 pm
The internal CH1+CH2 looks much cleaner (55dB SFDR vs 30dB), but I don't know if there's a different reason why that mode is unsuitable. Other than being squirreled away under Utilities > Output Setup > Wave Combine. They go to all the effort to make a friendly graphical diagram for the mode and then hide it away  :palm:

Is there an SCPI manual for the SDG2000X yet?  I've been referred to the SDG1000 SCPI manual but it seems incomplete.  It does not appear to have any instructions for Wave Combine documented.  I *need* this.
This is another one that's not in the generic Download/Manuals folder, instead it's in the product Documents folder:
http://siglentamerica.com/prodcut-wd.aspx?id=1364&tid=16&T=2 (http://siglentamerica.com/prodcut-wd.aspx?id=1364&tid=16&T=2)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on June 28, 2017, 01:16:20 pm
Just got in my GPSDO as a lab reference and decided to hook it up to the SDG2000X after it settled for a bit.  I have been feeding it into the frequency counter to get a feel for the reference accuracy on the Siglent.  I could clearly see the slight drift during warm-up of the signal gen, having started the counter on a cold start.  After a few hous it has been pretty solid at +0.33ppm (reading the 10MHz signal at -.33ppm) and drifting no more than about 0.04ppm

1. Is it possible to use this data to better calibrate the SDG2000X? The only calibration instructions I have found is for the touch screen.
2. I would really love to see a graph of the frequency counter rather than having to capture the data via SCPI and write code to display it.  Any chance of getting this enhancement? (I see I'm not the first to ask for it.)
Why don't you just use the GPSDO 10 MHz as the External reference and ignore/disable the inbuilt internal reference ?  ;)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: pigrew on June 28, 2017, 01:33:33 pm
Just got in my GPSDO as a lab reference and decided to hook it up to the SDG2000X after it settled for a bit.  I have been feeding it into the frequency counter to get a feel for the reference accuracy on the Siglent.  I could clearly see the slight drift during warm-up of the signal gen, having started the counter on a cold start.  After a few hous it has been pretty solid at +0.33ppm (reading the 10MHz signal at -.33ppm) and drifting no more than about 0.04ppm

1. Is it possible to use this data to better calibrate the SDG2000X? The only calibration instructions I have found is for the touch screen.
2. I would really love to see a graph of the frequency counter rather than having to capture the data via SCPI and write code to display it.  Any chance of getting this enhancement? (I see I'm not the first to ask for it.)

I've found the results (mean function) of the internal counter to be weirdly quantized (IIRC, on the order of 0.1 ppm), so I wouldn't trust it better than maybe 0.5 ppm. I think it's a rounding error somewhere.

You can adjust the internal oscillator by using a special service mode. Browse the Service Manual (http://siglentamerica.com/prodcut-wd.aspx?id=1364&tid=16&T=2), and find the "Timebase Calibration" section (page 58 of manual's A revision), and follow the instructions there. (Go to the system info menu, and press 123654). Input 10 MHz to the back counter input. I found that the not enough digits were shown on the frequency counter display, so large ranges of many DAC codes would show the same counter value.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: invzim on July 01, 2017, 10:42:22 am
Quite happy with the unit, but after a few weeks it seems like the led's have given up.  I thought at first it was some wonky firmware issue, until I found the LEDTest.

I haven't actually bothered to open the unit up yet to check if there is a loose connector, but it has been stationary on my desk all the time so would be a little odd.

Anyone else experienced this?
Never heard of failed LED's before.  :-//
If you have had it only a short time from new it will be a warranty repair, please contact your local supplier to start the warranty process.

I got it via a dealer on aliexpress, so with return shipping etc, it would be about the same as getting a new one I suspect.  Anyho - I opened it up, the front panel is a bit of a PITA to both open and re-assemble.  The display board has 2 74HC595 serial shift registers that drives the LED.  I had a little look at the signals and all seemed fine, except the output enable was constantly high resulting in no output.  It has a 'local' pull-down, and what I presume is a schmitt-trigger that is driven from the main unit.  This signal was always high.  I didn't bother troubleshooting the main board further - but I suspect it's a software issue.  Anyho, I just removed a resistor the signal goes through (R196, 0603, measured to 5k), output enable will now stay low forever and the LED works like they should.

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on July 01, 2017, 11:42:59 am
Quite happy with the unit, but after a few weeks it seems like the led's have given up.  I thought at first it was some wonky firmware issue, until I found the LEDTest.

I haven't actually bothered to open the unit up yet to check if there is a loose connector, but it has been stationary on my desk all the time so would be a little odd.

Anyone else experienced this?
Never heard of failed LED's before.  :-//
If you have had it only a short time from new it will be a warranty repair, please contact your local supplier to start the warranty process.

I got it via a dealer on aliexpress, so with return shipping etc, it would be about the same as getting a new one I suspect.  Anyho - I opened it up, the front panel is a bit of a PITA to both open and re-assemble.  The display board has 2 74HC595 serial shift registers that drives the LED.  I had a little look at the signals and all seemed fine, except the output enable was constantly high resulting in no output.  It has a 'local' pull-down, and what I presume is a schmitt-trigger that is driven from the main unit.  This signal was always high.  I didn't bother troubleshooting the main board further - but I suspect it's a software issue.  Anyho, I just removed a resistor the signal goes through (R196, 0603, measured to 5k), output enable will now stay low forever and the LED works like they should.
Weird.  :-//
Despite where you acquired it from you can contact the closest Siglent branch to you with these links:
http://www.siglent.com/ENs/lxwms.aspx?id=1337 (http://www.siglent.com/ENs/lxwms.aspx?id=1337)

NOW, is there a crack in the PCB, it looks like it in your pic.  :-\
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: MrW0lf on July 06, 2017, 06:44:06 am
My bricked SDG2042X (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/msg1203573/#msg1203573) is finally ok. siglent.eu (http://siglent.eu) sent me new mb. Actually they first sent whole new unit by mistake :P New unit went back and to compensate hassle they kindly gave me SDG2122X mb. So guess world's first: SDG2042X that is officially SDG2122X with proper new serial and all 8)

Torn apart using precision tools:

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=329383)

Old mb:

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=329385)

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=329387)

Result with new one in:

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=329389)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: flash2b on July 06, 2017, 08:37:42 pm
Funny the sticker on the boad list it as SDM3055, so the mb is probably the same in both SDM meters as in SDG2000X generators.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Aeternam on July 06, 2017, 11:22:52 pm
On a side note, what became of the mod to isolate the output of this thing? I remember being very interested in that...  ;D

Or was that project the reason for this board replacement?   :popcorn:
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: MrW0lf on July 06, 2017, 11:44:02 pm
I replaced "linux" board, not signal board. I'm quite sure board was actually 100% ok. Bricking was due to some software situation after firmware update. Sadly there seems to be no (public) procedure to "reset" software.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Plasmateur on July 13, 2017, 01:05:55 pm
I'm having trouble populating an IP address after pressing "DHCP On" both after I've attempted to connect to my desktop, and then my laptop. The IP Address I receive back is "0.0.0.0" and I am unable to use Putty into the device.

Does anybody know what might be causing this?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on July 13, 2017, 03:15:37 pm
I'm having trouble populating an IP address after pressing "DHCP On" both after I've attempted to connect to my desktop, and then my laptop. The IP Address I receive back is "0.0.0.0" and I am unable to use Putty into the device.

Does anybody know what might be causing this?
FWIW, with DHCP On, the device should grab the IP, subnet etc from what it's connected to automatically.
When Off, you need populate the address manually.
For Windows, you can get that info with the ipconfig command  in a Dos box.

I usually have a network switch close at hand that sorts it all out when I have DHCP On.

Yell if there's still a problem and I'll get a unit out and check for you.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Plasmateur on July 16, 2017, 05:55:42 am
For some reason I wasn't able to get the unit to populate an IP address, but I was still able to putty into the device to do what I needed to do by just manually setting the IP.

Tautech,

Do you know if Siglent is still working on firmware updates? If so, will we be able to trigger both channels at the same time from a software trigger?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on July 16, 2017, 06:01:45 am
For some reason I wasn't able to get the unit to populate an IP address, but I was still able to putty into the device to do what I needed to do by just manually setting the IP.
OK, I'll get one out and have a fiddle............maybe not until a bit later.

Quote
Tautech,

Do you know if Siglent is still working on firmware updates? If so, will we be able to trigger both channels at the same time from a software trigger?
Yes of course they are and yes I haven't forgotten you request.
I'll do some homework.  ;)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on July 16, 2017, 06:47:35 am
@ Plasmateur
Sorry haven't got a 2042X ATM but this SDG1032X UI should be the same.

Enter Utility/Interface (Page 2)/LAN State = On (toggle if needed)
LAN Setup/DHCP...........toggle to ON and wait for the IP, SN and Gateway to get auto populated.
Utility = Exit and save

Does yours not do this ?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: exe on July 21, 2017, 06:09:31 am
Hi guys! Is it possible make SDG2042X to remember settings across reboots (except for enabled channels)?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on July 21, 2017, 06:54:42 am
Hi guys! Is it possible make SDG2042X to remember settings across reboots (except for enabled channels)?
Yes of course.
You can find the settings for Power On as Last (used) or Default in the Utilities menu.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: pigrew on July 26, 2017, 03:25:41 am
Is there a way for the generator to force an external reference (and never change to the internal reference)?

Currently, the frequency reference is switched to internal (with no indication on the GUI) when the frequency reference is turned off. It's too easy to continue using it thinking that the frequency is still locked (and yielding bad data).

Also, I'm worried that when it defaults to internal reference, it is outputting 10 MHz on it's reference output which is directly connected to another instrument's 10 MHz out. Having two instruments outputting 10 MHz into eachother can't be a good thing. I don't know if the hardware supports it, but it'd be nice to tell it to disable the 10MHz output while using the internal reference.

There are a few parameters (like reference mode, screensaver, language, number format, and beeper) that I'd really like to always have saved (irrespective of the "power-on setting"). Maybe as a work-around, there could be an option to load a particular saved configuration on startup(so the choices would be factory default, particular configuration, or last configuration)?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: flash2b on July 26, 2017, 07:52:02 pm
I asked for the same thing, but no one reacted.

I am wondering why you cannot see on the screen if the Siglent SDG external clock is switched on or off on the main screen. Siglent did implement the "Phase Lock" lock-icon so they could add another lock-icon next to this for the exernal clock indication. On comparison, the Rigol DG series shows "Ext" on the screen when external clock is switched on.

May be Siglent should add this to the backlog for future firmware, that would be great.

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Dwaine on August 11, 2017, 12:10:02 am
Wondering if graphing and histogram functionality in the counter function is an option the firmware team can do?

Maybe grab the same code from the DMM firmware.  I was using my SDG2000x last night and wished I had a graph displaying some values.

I think a lot of people would like those two options.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: eurofox on August 11, 2017, 12:20:31 am
I just order one  :-+

Seems it is one of the best generator for the money + 120Mhz hack  :-DD
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bson on August 11, 2017, 08:27:29 am
Currently, the frequency reference is switched to internal (with no indication on the GUI) when the frequency reference is turned off. It's too easy to continue using it thinking that the frequency is still locked (and yielding bad data).
Even worse, it will start driving the reference port as an output, and when you plug in your frequency standard again it will short.  The direction shouldn't be automatic...  If set to input the instrument can auto detect a signal; if set to output they could auto detect a load (if possible), but the direction itself needs to be a purely manual setting.

Ideally, when set to use an external reference an indicator should be used to show the state of the input.  No pop-ups or dialogs - those are too easy to miss and just annoy.  A simple indicator and possibly a beep the first time it locks.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Gary1942 on August 13, 2017, 08:17:26 am
This is page 32 of this thread. Apologies for not having read all the posts. Also, I could not find a place to ask a service question on siglent.com.

I bought my SDG 2042 from Amazon in February 2016.

I saw some comments on the net about firmware updates. I have never connected my SDG 2042x to the network, so, today I plugged in a network cable and turned it on (it has not been on for at least a month). It reaches the boot logo page and hung there. I left it on for a few hours thinking that it was downloading an update, but half a day later, still the same. I turned it off and back on, still hangs on the Siglent logo with the network plugged in or not.

Any advice?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Dwaine on August 13, 2017, 11:02:50 am
The firmware update is only by USB.   The hanging when connected by network cable to a router, maybe try and disconnect the Ethernet cable and power cycle the unit. Hopefully it will finally boot successfully. 
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: pigrew on August 13, 2017, 11:28:51 am
I saw some comments on the net about firmware updates. I have never connected my SDG 2042x to the network, so, today I plugged in a network cable and turned it on (it has not been on for at least a month). It reaches the boot logo page and hung there. I left it on for a few hours thinking that it was downloading an update, but half a day later, still the same. I turned it off and back on, still hangs on the Siglent logo with the network plugged in or not.

Any advice?

Email the Siglent folks, at the email address listed  on this page (http://www.siglentamerica.com/contact_us).

Connecting to a LAN shouldn't cause it not to boot. Firmware updates are only performed when you ask it to load firmware update files from USB flash storage. This sounds like there's a bad component in the unit, or its flash storage has corrupt data.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: spidola on August 14, 2017, 12:38:53 am
My unit came with the 2.01.01.23R5 firmware. This version is not yet available at the official site.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: mspec on August 14, 2017, 09:39:38 am
I recently purchased the SDG1032X version and was going to give it a go to see if I could try the hack to turn it into the 60 MHz version however telnet is requesting a username and pass. Anybody know what the default for this might be ??
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: CustomEngineerer on August 14, 2017, 12:54:55 pm
As far as I know no one has figured out the telnet username/password. And since the 1000X came out after Siglent added the username/password to the firmware, I don't know of a way to liberate the 1000X. Good luck though, do let us know if you manage to figure it out.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Dwaine on August 14, 2017, 02:10:53 pm
My unit came with the 2.01.01.23R5 firmware. This version is not yet available at the official site.

I wonder what changes are in the new firmware?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on August 14, 2017, 03:26:10 pm
My unit came with the 2.01.01.23R5 firmware. This version is not yet available at the official site.

I wonder what changes are in the new firmware?
Chasing this ^ up.
Coming back with an edit when I find out.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Qw3rtzuiop on August 14, 2017, 03:46:53 pm
23R5 isnt new. The update can be found at siglent.com. There is also a changelog.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on August 14, 2017, 05:36:18 pm
23R5 isnt new. The update can be found at siglent.com. There is also a changelog.
Link please.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Dwaine on August 14, 2017, 05:46:48 pm
Only 2.01.01.23R3 is listed on the WEB Site?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on August 14, 2017, 05:49:41 pm
Only 2.01.01.23R3 is listed on the WEB Site?
Yup.
Haven't got any new SDG2kX's to check either.  :(

Then I wonder if spidola mistyped 5 for 3 ?  :-//
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: spidola on August 14, 2017, 06:42:04 pm
Only 2.01.01.23R3 is listed on the WEB Site?
Yup.
Haven't got any new SDG2kX's to check either.  :(
Then I wonder if spidola mistyped 5 for 3 ?  :-//
No mistake here. The latest firmware is 2.01.01.23R5 and it is not yet available at the support site. Let's see who can find it first  ;)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Qw3rtzuiop on August 14, 2017, 07:01:13 pm
Sorry i made a mistake. I just found 23R3 on the website.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Dwaine on August 16, 2017, 12:13:11 pm
Only 2.01.01.23R3 is listed on the WEB Site?
Yup.
Haven't got any new SDG2kX's to check either.  :(
Then I wonder if spidola mistyped 5 for 3 ?  :-//
No mistake here. The latest firmware is 2.01.01.23R5 and it is not yet available at the support site. Let's see who can find it first  ;)

I guess we will have to wait until Siglent posts the newer firmware..  Thanks for the screenshot..
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: spidola on August 17, 2017, 01:46:36 am
I guess we will have to wait until Siglent posts the newer firmware..  Thanks for the screenshot..
It appears, the next released firmware is going to be 23R6, they skip posting 23R5 ???
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: eurofox on August 17, 2017, 05:08:18 am
I got mine today and hack it from 40Mhz to 120Mhz in 5 minutes  :-DD :-+
Very nice generator  :-+
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Co6aka on August 17, 2017, 12:48:19 pm
Has anyone tried hacking the telnet password with something like THC-Hydra?   https://www.thc.org/ (https://www.thc.org/)

Also, I thought there was some recent telnet vulnerability and exploit???  :-//
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: CustomEngineerer on August 17, 2017, 10:09:57 pm
Yes, and let it run for a couple of weeks with no luck. But feel free to try yourself, you never know, you might get lucky.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: IDEngineer on August 18, 2017, 09:27:28 am
Is there an EEVblog-preferred vendor for the SDG2042X? TEquipment doesn't carry it, and I want to be supportive of the EEV community. Any discount codes would be appreciated too. Thanks in advance!
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: CustomEngineerer on August 18, 2017, 10:34:36 am
I bought mine from tequipment, but they no longer sale Siglent equipment (no idea why). I believe the current recommended company if you are in America is Saelig. They have a discount thread on this board (Test Equipment) where you can request a discount code. I'm pretty sure its for the same discount amount that tequipment offers to forum members.

Edit: Found the thread: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/equipment-discounts-from-saelig/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/equipment-discounts-from-saelig/)

Edit2: I'm not actually endorsing Saelig since I've never used them, but don't remember seeing any complaints about them, and know they do offer a discount to forum members.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: CustomEngineerer on August 18, 2017, 10:49:23 am
Yes, and let it run for a couple of weeks with no luck. But feel free to try yourself, you never know, you might get lucky.

To be clear, I ran John the Ripper against the passwd/shadow files (for speed since had access to them), not directly against telnet. It was something I had played with many years ago, but certainly wouldn't consider myself an expert. Plus, was more just playing around, since there were already ways to unlock the extra bandwidth, and I didn't really need it anyways. I seem to remember there was at least 1 or 2 (probably more) other users also trying similar around that time. I couldn't tell you exactly what they did, but I really didn't put a lot of effort into it, just ran it several times using pretty generic dictionary files. The last time I tried, it ran for two to three weeks before I lost power at home and computer shutdown.
I do remember seeing on older thread on this board somewhere where someone had figured out one of the older Siglent passwords (thinking it was the previous generation of generators, SDG4000 or SDG5000 SDG800 or SDG1000 maybe), and so I did try variations of that password, but never got anywhere.

Edit: Updated incorrect previous generation generator models
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: mspec on August 18, 2017, 01:38:48 pm
As I mentioned earlier I have the SDG1032X which more out of curiosity I would like to see if I can get into. I am more wondering what username people have used for the login: line. Would it be Root or Admin or perhaps even just telnet. I am not putting a massive amount of effort into this but will have a play around.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: IDEngineer on August 22, 2017, 07:04:39 am
I bought mine from tequipment, but they no longer sale Siglent equipment (no idea why). I believe the current recommended company if you are in America is Saelig. They have a discount thread on this board (Test Equipment) where you can request a discount code. I'm pretty sure its for the same discount amount that tequipment offers to forum members.
Thanks, I'll dig into that. Sorry for the delay in responding, I thought this forum emailed a notification when a response showed up. Maybe my settings are off, I'll check.

Thanks again!
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: CustomEngineerer on August 22, 2017, 09:06:01 am
The telnet username (at least on the SDG2000X, assuming its the same for the SDG1000X) is root. lowercase
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: pigrew on August 22, 2017, 09:54:59 am
I've noticed that there's a weird frequency offset in my SDG2042X.

I've used the external reference to lock to my frequency counter's 10 MHz output (square wave mode). The counter is reporting the following:

Programmed PeriodReading
1000 s1000.266442
100 s100.0053211
10 s10.0000525
1 s1.000000450
0.1 s0.1000000024
0.01 s0.0100000002

It seems that there is an off-by-one error in the generator's firmware? Can someone else confirm, or has this been reported already?

Or is my frequency counter broken? The data is following a log-log trend.

How I wish that these instruments were open source......

EDIT: If this measurement is true, a 1 hour period would actually be 1 hour, 11 seconds. Programming 3 hours would yield 3 hours, 1 minute, 59 seconds. 12 hours should yield an extra 37 minutes.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: rf-loop on August 22, 2017, 05:53:18 pm

Programmed PeriodReading
1000 s1000.266442
100 s100.0053211
10 s10.0000525
1 s1.000000450
0.1 s0.1000000024
0.01 s0.0100000002




I made test with only some periods.

Test setup. HP53131A
SDG2042X  FW 2.01.01.23R5  HW 02-01-00-35-00

Both equipments use same frequency reference clock, in this case both use HP53131A internal (option)  OCXO what really is very good and with exellent short time stability. Much better than example Trimble GPS crap or cheap Rb oscillators if look very short time jitter. Long time drift is other thing. And in this setup, drift in period time is nearly eliminated because both use same reference. (but locking quality to reference may differ but no need "time nutting"  for this case)

Signal level from SDG to counter 3Vpp @ 50ohm.  Counter trigger (Auto Off) level set to zero and positive edge. Counter in DC coupling mode.   
Signal type square and measured risetime under 5ns

Due to lack of time not measured more long periods and this may give enough confirmations for  your findings.

SDG2042X period measured (gt = gate time)
10ms»»» 0, 010 000 000 02s  gt 1s
100ms»» 0, 100 000 002 38 s gt 10s
1s »»»»» 1, 000 000 450 19 s gt 20s
10s»»»»10, 000 052 463 5 s   gt 100s
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: pigrew on August 23, 2017, 12:00:46 am
Due to lack of time not measured more long periods and this may give enough confirmations for your findings.

Looks like your measurements match mine fairly well. I ran some 3600s runs overnight with the internal timebase, and logging on my computer (clock synchronized to NTP, probably within 50ms). The 50% duty cycle square has low times of 1815.6 seconds and high times of 1800 seconds. I won't add this to my previous post since it uses the internal timebase instead of being locked to the counter, but it is close to the observed trend (3611.7 sec was predicted). The SDG2042X's internal timebase was adjusted to be within 10ppb of a (cheap TruePosition) GPSDO at the start of test, and was within that range at the end of the test, too.

This is a 50.2% duty cycle. Close enough? I'm about to start a T=4 hour run (reference locked), which take an extra 3.6 minutes.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: siglent5 on August 23, 2017, 10:35:33 am
Due to the principle of DDS, the output frequency will have some error.For the freq of dds is 300MHz,and the acc is 49 bits,you can exactly calculate the true freq when you set the period as 1000s.For example,when period is 1000s, ideal ftw =0.001*2^49/300M=1876.5,the actual ftw= 1876,so the actual period = 1000.2664417578.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: CustomEngineerer on August 23, 2017, 10:59:22 am
Great explanation siglent5. Those calculations perfectly match the reported results.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: pigrew on August 23, 2017, 11:51:28 am
Due to the principle of DDS, the output frequency will have some error.For the freq of dds is 300MHz,and the acc is 49 bits,you can exactly calculate the true freq when you set the period as 1000s. For example,when period is 1000s, ideal ftw =0.001*2^49/300M=1876.5,the actual ftw= 1876,so the actual period = 1000.2664417578.

I hadn't been aware that the square wave mode uses DDS on the unit (or that DDS would generate such a weird result for low frequencies). I found a reasonable description of frequency tuning words (https://www.gamry.com/application-notes/EIS/waveform-generation-and-frequency-resolution/).

However, I still feel the equipment should be able to do better. For example, using TrueARB mode with the included Square50 ARB, I'm able to output signals with 10.00000000s periods. Or is there some disadvantage to that which I'm not aware of? (Probably less accurate duty cycles?)

Perhaps there's an even better way than these that I don't know about. For example, can the sample rate be reduced for low-frequency outputs instead of using the standard DDS mode? That would help both sine-generation and square generation.

Thanks!
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: siglent5 on August 23, 2017, 01:27:18 pm
1.the awg can output wave at any frequency because all of the wave use the improved dds.
2.the truearb mode can greatly reduce the error,but still have some error.for example,when you set square50 arb with its freq = 100mhz(period =10s),you can see the Srate =16384 Sa/s(because the point of square50 arb is 16384).it means that the freq of dds is 16384 Hz,and in this freq,the error is very small,so you measure the period =10.0000000000.
3.the sample rate of the dac is fixed.so if you reduced the freq of dds,you may need an additional module (such as DUC(Digital Up Conversion))to reample the  low sample rate signal to the fixed 300MHz ,then the system may be complex.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: thememo on August 28, 2017, 04:41:21 am
I got mine today and hack it from 40Mhz to 120Mhz in 5 minutes  :-DD :-+
Very nice generator  :-+

how you can do that? My signal generator came with version 22R5 , i downgraded it to 17R5( actually i tried to 16R2 but signal generator did not permit) . when i connect to LAN ,i did not see the signal generator's ip , you can look the pictures... main problem is when i click the DHCP ON, ip adress and others became 0.0.0.0.  any idea  |O
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: eurofox on August 28, 2017, 05:46:08 am
I got mine today and hack it from 40Mhz to 120Mhz in 5 minutes  :-DD :-+
Very nice generator  :-+

how you can do that? My signal generator came with version 22R5 , i downgraded it to 17R5( actually i tried to 16R2 but signal generator did not permit) . when i connect to LAN ,i did not see the signal generator's ip , you can look the pictures... main problem is when i click the DHCP ON, ip adress and others became 0.0.0.0.  any idea  |O

Maybe you have a problem with your cable, router or home network.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: IDEngineer on August 28, 2017, 06:09:53 am
Quote
Maybe you have a problem with your cable, router or home network.
Perhaps he doesn't have a DHCP server? If he runs everything statically addressed, DHCP won't find a server and won't be assigned an address.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: rf-loop on August 28, 2017, 06:42:41 am

how you can do that? My signal generator came with version 22R5 , i downgraded it to 17R5( actually i tried to 16R2 but signal generator did not permit) . when i connect to LAN ,i did not see the signal generator's ip , you can look the pictures... main problem is when i click the DHCP ON, ip adress and others became 0.0.0.0.  any idea  |O

As can read in 17R5 documents that after this version (and later) can not downgrade to older FW than 17R5. Of course this restriction is also inherited in the following versions.

It is not at all mandatory to turn DHCP on. There is not any reason to use DHCP. Just without it you need set your PC network for working with  IP what you can find in SDG window without DHCP on. 

I've also seen 23R5 with my own eyes (most new units with this version but not downloadable from Siglent at this time).
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: IDEngineer on August 29, 2017, 01:29:17 am
I've also seen 23R5 with my own eyes (most new units with this version but not downloadable from Siglent at this time).
Which raises an interesting question: If you are getting a brand new unit (arrives tomorrow), does the unit allow you to save the existing firmware to a file, do the downgrade, apply the hack, and then upgrade back to the as-shipped 23R5 firmware? Or are you stuck with a previous rev if you want to use the hack?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: rf-loop on August 29, 2017, 01:54:20 am
I've also seen 23R5 with my own eyes (most new units with this version but not downloadable from Siglent at this time).
Which raises an interesting question: If you are getting a brand new unit (arrives tomorrow), does the unit allow you to save the existing firmware to a file, do the downgrade, apply the hack, and then upgrade back to the as-shipped 23R5 firmware? Or are you stuck with a previous rev if you want to use the hack?

Not using simple methods
If you go out from 23R5,  at this time most new downloadable FW is 23R3.
From 17R5 or higher version versions can not go under 17R5 version. But higher versions are compatible for uödate  even older than 17R5 without intermediate update step - afaik.
For get more new FW version  than 23R3 need wait until Siglent publish new version in download center.
As we can see they also need care how new public versions are compatible with every previous versions so it need carefully think what to publish. In factory they do not need care because new FW go to fresh unit without any previous FW.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: IDEngineer on August 29, 2017, 06:09:58 am
If you go out from 23R5,  at this time most new downloadable FW is 23R3.
Then I guess the question becomes "What bugs were fixed, or features were added, between 23R3 and 23R5?" If you can live without the improvements, then the downgrade is OK. Otherwise, might have to hold off on the BW upgrade until 23R5 is released as standalone firmware.

Lots of devices allow you to download the firmware out of the device and save it as a file as a way to preserve your factory setup, in case something goes wrong. I guess not the SDG2000X series....
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: McBryce on August 31, 2017, 10:44:14 pm
You can just download the version that is in your device from the internet, no need to download it from the device.

McBryce.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: IDEngineer on September 01, 2017, 01:52:57 am
You can just download the version that is in your device from the internet, no need to download it from the device.
Except that present production is shipping with 23R5, while:
Quote
at this time most new downloadable FW is 23R3
In other words, the latest production firmware is later than what can be downloaded. If you cannot extract the firmware from the device, then applying the hack means you lose the latest firmware update(s), at least until Saelig makes your production version available for download.

Hence the discussion regarding whether the changes in the updates are more important than the bandwidth increase.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Dwaine on September 01, 2017, 09:59:10 am
Anyone have a clue why Siglent has not released the new firmware by download?   You would think they would of posted it by now.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on September 01, 2017, 11:25:09 am
Anyone have a clue why Siglent has not released the new firmware by download?   You would think they would of posted it by now.
One can only suspect the changes in 23R5 are so minor and until further needed tweaks are added there's no point in releasing it. I have no idea of what improvements might be in 23R5.
An example is the very recent FW for their bench DMM's, only released yesterday but the FW file dates from April.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: exe on September 01, 2017, 08:12:24 pm
Anyone have a clue why Siglent has not released the new firmware by download?   You would think they would of posted it by now.

Why you want it so desperately? :) Is there anything you want to improve?

So far my biggest complains are:

1) Wheel (rotating knob) misses clicks when turned fast

2) It does not react on input when displaying "parameter limit is reached", also the message stays for too long to my taste.

3) The wheel changes step. E.g., I have amplitude set to 1V with 1V step. If I turn it CCW it will set to 0.9V and 0.1V step. Now if I turn it back again it will be 1.0V, but still 0.1V step. I want it either not to change the step at all, or put it back where it was.


Now question: is it safe to short the output? I think so, but I would like to confirm. From specs looks like I can because maximum output current corresponds to short-cirtuit current (taking 50Ohm impedance) at maximum output voltage.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: rf-loop on September 01, 2017, 11:00:46 pm

Now question: is it safe to short the output? I think so, but I would like to confirm. From specs looks like I can because maximum output current corresponds to short-cirtuit current (taking 50Ohm impedance) at maximum output voltage.

It reads clearly in data sheet. What confirmation it need. Ohm´s law confirm it. Is it not enough strong confirmation?
There read max current 200mA.
Source internal resistance is 50ohm.
Source maximum Voltage to infinite (Hi-Z) load is 10V.
200mA current can exist only if load resistance is zero.  Some peoples call zero resistance also as "short circuit".
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: exe on September 02, 2017, 07:39:17 am
Can it drive capacitive load?

What if the cap is not fully discharged? Like, I apply sine on the cap, disconnect it when it's fully charged and then connect again when output is low.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: pigrew on September 02, 2017, 03:12:23 pm
Can it drive capacitive load?

What if the cap is not fully discharged? Like, I apply sine on the cap, disconnect it when it's fully charged and then connect again when output is low.
It isn't really specified if it does or not.

My feeling is that a capacitive load is OK. One problem could be stability of the output amplifier. However the series 50 ohm likely makes it always stable.

With a large enough capacitor voltage, you could break down dialectics/overload the output transistors and cause serious damage. I think it should be OK to connect a capacitor that is charged to less than 5 volts, or so.

There is an overvoltage protection feature of the generator that might save it from some charged capacitors. The protection is triggered when the output terminal is 4V or 11V (depending on programmed output offset and amplitude)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on September 02, 2017, 05:09:17 pm
For further info check the SDG2000X User manual:
2.13.10 Overvoltage Protection
If the state is set to ON, overvoltage protection of CH1 and CH2 will take effect once any of the following conditions is met. When overvoltage protection occurs, a message will be displayed and the output is disabled.
-The absolute value of input voltage is higher than 11V±0.5V when the amplitude of the generator is higher than or equal to 3.2Vpp or the DC offset is higher than or equal to |2VDC|.
-The absolute value of input voltage is higher than 4V±0.5V when the amplitude of the generator is lower than 3.2Vpp or the DC offset is lower than |2VDC|.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bson on September 03, 2017, 11:09:39 am
1) Wheel (rotating knob) misses clicks when turned fast
This is perfectly normal for mechanical encoders - the mechanical switches have a maximum rate they can switch at since they need to physically contact between detents.  Optical encoders are of course much faster but tend to be expensive, and it's tough to justify a $50 encoder in a $500 instrument when a $3 one is 90% as good.  It's what you get when designing to a price point...

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: rf-loop on September 04, 2017, 04:20:12 pm
Here I have tested SDG1000X amplitude  flatness between 5MHz - 60MHz. (SDG1000X max)
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1000x-waveform-generators/msg1293685/#msg1293685 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1000x-waveform-generators/msg1293685/#msg1293685)

It is good to make tests where results are fully comparable due to enough exactly same test setup, even signal cable is same in both tests. This is also important because there is no perfect impedance match and in all cases there is more or less reflections.


For compare here is exactly same setup with SDG2000X.  Sweeps from 5MHz to 120MHz (SDG2000X max) with SDG output set levels +15, +9, +3  and -9dBm.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=347769;image)

Edit Add: SA horizontal scale linear. SDG frequency sweep linear.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: exe on September 05, 2017, 07:10:09 am
Thanks for the test! Is horizontal axis linear or logarithmic? I can't figure out...
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on September 05, 2017, 07:32:21 am
Thanks for the test! Is horizontal axis linear or logarithmic? I can't figure out...
11.5 MHz/div
120-5=115(Span)/2=57.5(Center frequency)/5div(half display)=11.5
For this test Start and Stop only will be set and then CF will be whatever it is.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: rf-loop on September 05, 2017, 01:33:27 pm
Thanks for the test! Is horizontal axis linear or logarithmic? I can't figure out...

SDG linear, SA linear. Also my clock run linear and my calendar run linear.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: mark03 on September 06, 2017, 03:02:54 pm
1) Wheel (rotating knob) misses clicks when turned fast
This is perfectly normal for mechanical encoders - the mechanical switches have a maximum rate they can switch at since they need to physically contact between detents.

I am 99+% certain this has nothing to do with the encoder hardware, and everything to do with software, e.g. reading the encoder from Linux userspace.  Surely the encoder is capable of better than 2 Hz updates, which is close to the observed limit on my 2042X.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bson on September 07, 2017, 09:16:47 am
Surely the encoder is capable of better than 2 Hz updates, which is close to the observed limit on my 2042X.
Interesting.  I just checked, and counted 48 steps in 10 seconds, which is just under 5Hz.  I get about the same with or without the beep enabled, so at least that has nothing to do with it.  From my experience working with inexpensive Bourne mechanical encoders, they can get up to maybe 10-20Hz, but that depends on how many positions/detents they have.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on September 08, 2017, 12:00:32 pm
Just spotted new firmware:
Version: V2.01.01.23R7
14.8 Mb
http://siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=6418&tid=15 (http://siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=6418&tid=15)

Changelog
1.Supported system recovery from U-disk.
2.Fixed a bug which may cause the generator report a false over voltage alarm when start-up.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: McBryce on September 08, 2017, 05:23:59 pm
Downloaded, will try tonight. My unit regularly suffers from number 2: bug which may cause the generator report a false over voltage alarm when start-up.

McBryce.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: MrW0lf on September 08, 2017, 05:25:41 pm
2.Fixed a bug which may cause the generator report a false over voltage alarm when start-up.[/i]

Yes! It was FALSE alarm!!! Now I can sleep again :phew: Got that when booting lab up and gen connected to device that costs 2x of my current car and would be hurt by actual alarm trigger voltage.


Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: flash2b on September 09, 2017, 06:37:42 pm
Hope that janekivi will create a password friendly version of the new firmware soon.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: fitch on September 10, 2017, 01:41:38 pm
Does the new firmware leave the 120MHz hack intact?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: eurofox on September 10, 2017, 05:42:52 pm
Does the new firmware leave the 120MHz hack intact?

Yep  :-+
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Plasmateur on September 17, 2017, 10:56:01 am
So.....still unable to trigger both channels at the same time with a software trigger.

Lame.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: pigrew on September 17, 2017, 12:29:57 pm
I'd be interested in starting to reimplement the firmware. I'm sure that it would take much more time than I'm imagining, but I think that the generator is currently greatly software-limited.

However, I don't think I have the equipment needed to be able to reverse-engineer the pin-mappings of the FPGA and MCU (without destroying my generator). There are no schematics available, are there? Or ways to get the mappings from the firmware images? I'd imagine many of the pins (like ram and the display) would be fixed by the ICs themselves.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: janekivi on September 24, 2017, 05:42:46 am
Ok! Custom telnet password file is here as requested:
SDG2000_eevblog_23R7.zip (http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=83534199392458632882)

SDG1000X 30Mhz was hacked to 60Mhz as easily, I heard.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: jpep on October 02, 2017, 07:44:06 pm
Ok! Custom telnet password file is here as requested:
SDG2000_eevblog_23R7.zip (http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=83534199392458632882)

SDG1000X 30Mhz was hacked to 60Mhz as easily, I heard.

Sorry, but this is not clear to me... Is this the latest firmware update file with telnet password removed or what?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: flash2b on October 02, 2017, 11:10:18 pm
It is the same firmware with a known password.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: TT_ZX on October 04, 2017, 10:06:16 pm
Has anyone else got an RS Pro branded version of this AWG?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sz9kECUCESk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sz9kECUCESk)

Mine arrived today and the firmware has an RS Pro splash screen on boot.  Firmware is 2.01.01.21R2 and hardware is 02-01-00-31-00.  I was wondering if I could load the Siglent firmware on it without bricking it.  Telnet is password protected.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on October 05, 2017, 05:34:40 am
Has anyone else got an RS Pro branded version of this AWG?

Mine arrived today and the firmware has an RS Pro splash screen on boot.  Firmware is 2.01.01.21R2 and hardware is 02-01-00-31-00.  I was wondering if I could load the Siglent firmware on it without bricking it.  Telnet is password protected.
Welcome to the forum.

RS are pretty cheeky for selling them at NZ $1,022.04 plus GST.
http://nz.rs-online.com/web/p/waveform-generators/1236460/ (http://nz.rs-online.com/web/p/waveform-generators/1236460/)
The core firmware will be Siglent based with only the splash screen and branding different.
What version firmware is already installed ?

Check here to see if it matches the latest from Siglent:
http://siglentamerica.com/support_software_15 (http://siglentamerica.com/support_software_15)

And BTW, without the proper configuration file that allows the Siglent firmware to be installed I wouldn't attempt loading it.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: TT_ZX on October 05, 2017, 09:47:05 am
It looks like it is running version P21R2 | Published?2016-06-17.

Because I can't telnet in I can't poke around for the configuration file.  I read earlier in this (or another) thread that there is an internal serial port.  I may have a look at this some time.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on October 05, 2017, 10:41:58 am
It looks like it is running version P21R2 | Published?2016-06-17.

Because I can't telnet in I can't poke around for the configuration file.  I read earlier in this (or another) thread that there is an internal serial port.  I may have a look at this some time.
The FW makes no difference to the hackability of these units AFAIK. There have been a # of FW releases since hacking was discovered near the beginning of this thread.

WRT the config file, there might be one attached with the FW releases, it's not in the internal SW but it's necessary to be installed before FW to change the unit's configuration from RS to Siglent.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: jpep on October 10, 2017, 09:58:45 pm
It is the same firmware with a known password.

When you say known password you mean the old combo root user with blank password?

EDIT: Maybe root / eevblog ?

EDIT2: Yes, the login credentials are root / eevblog

It works perfect. Thanks @janekivi !!!
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Hrvoje-CRO on November 04, 2017, 01:36:26 am
Well after weeks of searching for a good function generator finally i've decided on SDG2042X. Affordable, good for education/testing/experimenting. The best choice for all of us who cannot afford an 33522A :-+ >:D
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on December 21, 2017, 09:02:32 pm
Is there a way for the generator to force an external reference (and never change to the internal reference)?

Currently, the frequency reference is switched to internal (with no indication on the GUI) when the frequency reference is turned off. It's too easy to continue using it thinking that the frequency is still locked (and yielding bad data).

Also, I'm worried that when it defaults to internal reference, it is outputting 10 MHz on it's reference output which is directly connected to another instrument's 10 MHz out. Having two instruments outputting 10 MHz into eachother can't be a good thing. I don't know if the hardware supports it, but it'd be nice to tell it to disable the 10MHz output while using the internal reference.

There are a few parameters (like reference mode, screensaver, language, number format, and beeper) that I'd really like to always have saved (irrespective of the "power-on setting"). Maybe as a work-around, there could be an option to load a particular saved configuration on startup(so the choices would be factory default, particular configuration, or last configuration)?
Did you ever get this sorted as it is listed as being fixed in the FW version 21R2 changelog.
http://www.siglenteu.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=2426&tid=15 (http://www.siglenteu.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=2426&tid=15)

Latest version is 23R7

Someone please confirm Ext 10 MHz frequency reference settings are being held after reboot.

So.....still unable to trigger both channels at the same time with a software trigger.

Lame.
I'll look at this in detail in the next few days. Sorry you've had to wait this long.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: pigrew on December 22, 2017, 02:46:21 am
Is there a way for the generator to force an external reference (and never change to the internal reference)?

Currently, the frequency reference is switched to internal (with no indication on the GUI) when the frequency reference is turned off. It's too easy to continue using it thinking that the frequency is still locked (and yielding bad data).

Also, I'm worried that when it defaults to internal reference, it is outputting 10 MHz on it's reference output which is directly connected to another instrument's 10 MHz out. Having two instruments outputting 10 MHz into eachother can't be a good thing. I don't know if the hardware supports it, but it'd be nice to tell it to disable the 10MHz output while using the internal reference.

There are a few parameters (like reference mode, screensaver, language, number format, and beeper) that I'd really like to always have saved (irrespective of the "power-on setting"). Maybe as a work-around, there could be an option to load a particular saved configuration on startup(so the choices would be factory default, particular configuration, or last configuration)?
Did you ever get this sorted as it is listed as being fixed in the FW version 21R2 changelog.
http://www.siglenteu.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=2426&tid=15 (http://www.siglenteu.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=2426&tid=15)

Latest version is 23R7

Someone please confirm Ext 10 MHz frequency reference settings are being held after reboot.


I'm using a slightly older firmware, 23R3. It does hold the external reference setting past reboot, but only if there is an external reference connected. Without a reference, it will default to the internal reference with no indication.

This change does not fulfill my request. I would appreciate an indicator on the display to show if it's using the external reference. Also, in the external reference mode, it shouldn't default back to the internal reference; it should display an error and not be able to output any signal. The concern is that depending on the order that I turn on my reference and signal generator, different things will happen. If I turn them on the SDG before the reference, I'll have two outputs connected together (a bad thing). There seems to be no way to switch to external reference mode without connecting two outputs together.

-Nathan
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bson on December 22, 2017, 02:56:25 am
I have 23R7 on mine and it remembers the clock source across power cycles, at least front power switch cycles; not sure if it does if you unplug mains.  However, if you ever unplug or it loses the external clock it switches to the internal - and even worse, tries to output it on the clock input.  Yes, it's totally retarded.  Mine is attached to a dedicated Spectracom tap for this purpose, don't want it to destroy my Tbolt. Fortunately the 12V offset taps are cheap on ebay, I think I paid $15 ea for them and they're bomb proof.   There is no indicator for the clock source and the only way to find out is to check the button state under Utility->System->Clock or such.  I checked only minutes ago and already forgot where it's buried.  So you can leave it running and go do something else, like fix a firmware bug or something, then come back and have no idea it decided there is no external clock and switched to the internal, outputting it on the clock input.  For this reason, if you intend to use it with an external reference I would recommend against buying it until they fix the firmware to make the setting PERMANENT.  As in, store it to EEPROM and never ever try to output anything on that input.

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on December 22, 2017, 06:51:03 pm
Guys, while researching dual channel SCPI enabling for Plasmateur I found there's a new SDG Programming Guide released 2017-11-14:
http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Documents/Program_Material/SDG_ProgrammingGuide_PG_E03B.pdf (http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Documents/Program_Material/SDG_ProgrammingGuide_PG_E03B.pdf)
What commands could still be added ? And why ?

Take a mo to think how your request can be best described so the factory has no trouble understanding it.
TIA

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on December 27, 2017, 05:59:06 am
Pigrew & bson
Ext Ref

For when no external frequency reference is available have the display inform the user only and NOT automatically connect the internal frequency reference and have the display show a new display indicator that External frequency reference is selected.

I asked for a new screen indicator displaying Int OR Ext and Reference source selection as manual only, no automatic reversion to Internal Ref.

Reply from Tech support:
We will support these two functions in future version. I can not give an accurate time now.


Plasmateur
For the both channels to be enabled simultaneously with one SCPI command:

We do not have this command. This requirement requires internal discussion of the product manager , the current can not give me result.  They need to analyze it.

Current command, we can only set the channel on one by one. The command format as below:
C1:OUTP ON;   C2:OUTP ON;

So we're definitely on their radar with a simultaneous channel enable and like you, I think it's a simple command thats inclusion has been overlooked. Fingers crossed they see it need to be added.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bson on December 27, 2017, 07:28:03 am
By the way, for long test runs using SCPI, there's a command to query the clock source, "ROSC?", so whenever taking a measurement check this first and switch it back with "ROSC EXT" if it has flaked out.  Then check again after a measurement to make sure it didn't switch over in the middle, and repeat the measurement if it did.    So, it's kinda workable...
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on December 27, 2017, 07:45:04 am
By the way, for long test runs using SCPI, there's a command to query the clock source, "ROSC?", so whenever taking a measurement check this first and switch it back with "ROSC EXT" if it has flaked out.  Then check again after a measurement to make sure it didn't switch over in the middle, and repeat the measurement if it did.    So, it's kinda workable...
Sure.

But the GUI can and should be improved.
Main OSD to be very clear what the REF CLK is; INTernal or EXTernal, which I think would satisfy most users needs and also disable auto revert to INTernal. (User setting EXTernal as permanent)

Not hidden in a menu.

I add these comments above to seek further refinements as what gets posted here is bought to Siglents attention so they can be clear on what you guys want and need.
Thanks all.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tv84 on December 31, 2017, 04:27:20 am
Has anyone else got an RS Pro branded version of this AWG?

Mine arrived today and the firmware has an RS Pro splash screen on boot.  Firmware is 2.01.01.21R2 and hardware is 02-01-00-31-00.  I was wondering if I could load the Siglent firmware on it without bricking it.  Telnet is password protected.

Poking around the u-boot.img file, it seems to me that there is some commands/scripts that indicate that it's possible to USB load or tftp a "logo.bmp" and change the boot logo image without packing or changing the .ADS/.CFG update file. I think this feature also exists in other Siglent equipments.

BTW, a good lazy license generator is changing the "0123456789" in the .app file to one's S/N, upload it and let it generate your personalized official license.  ;)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: pigrew on December 31, 2017, 07:35:56 am
By the way, for long test runs using SCPI, there's a command to query the clock source, "ROSC?", so whenever taking a measurement check this first and switch it back with "ROSC EXT" if it has flaked out.  Then check again after a measurement to make sure it didn't switch over in the middle, and repeat the measurement if it did.    So, it's kinda workable...

I add these comments above to seek further refinements as what gets posted here is bought to Siglents attention so they can be clear on what you guys want and need.
Thanks all.

I look forward to the update for locking external-reference mode, as it'll make things more convenient.

Recently, I've mostly been using the front-panel UI, so I have little "real-world" feedback on the programming interface, and these things are not currently a priority for me. I'm using firmware 2.01.01.23R3. The below questions are the things that I feel should be answered in the manual, but I don't require a response in this forum (unless you have questions about the questions themselves).

My below comments are based on the "SDG programming manual" listed under the SDG6000X section of the Siglent site. The SDG2042X manual seems to be the old revision?

Partially responding to bson, what's "normal" for other instruments is the notion of a status byte, with an ability to set a bit if errors happen. Preferably, when the reference becomes unlocked, it would add an error to the error queue, which would then propagate to the status byte, which could be polled by the controlling computer. This would detect momentary losses of reference.

The SDG2042X manual doesn't document *STB, *SRE, or any of those, so I don't know if this is usable.  The index (at the end) of the programming manual lists many of the 488 *[ABC] commands, but they are not described. The manual doesn't contain page numbers in the index, either.

Another undocumented command is how to read the error queue. If I remember correctly, it's SYSTEM:ERROR?, but I could be remembering wrong. I think that there are also calibration commands (used by the downloadable calibration scripts) which are also undocumented. Can "SYSTEM:" be abbreviated "SYS:" or "SYST":"?

Cn:WVDT seems to imply that waveform data can be uploaded via USBTMC, though it doesn't describe the format used. Is it a binary block? integers separated by commas, etc? It says on the 2000X, {Mn} is unnecessary. Exactly what does that mean? I think that the "Command syntax" shown is "format1", but "format2" isn't described?

Another little quirk of the USBTMC interface is that it does not support the "initiate_clear" command. USB488 specification says that "This USBTMC specification requires that all devices with a USBTMC interface or USBTMC subclass interface must support the INITIATE_CLEAR control endpoint request.", but it instead returns a USB error when I try to execute a clear. A clear is necessary at program startup in order to clear the I/O buffers. I'm in the habit of sending a clear every time I connect to a 488 device, but in this case I had to remove it for the SDG2042X.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on December 31, 2017, 10:07:30 am

My below comments are based on the "SDG programming manual" listed under the SDG6000X section of the Siglent site. The SDG2042X manual seems to be the old revision?

If you're using the US site it's in evolution to this new format seen and in time all the other Siglent sites will look this way. There have been errors and omissions with the US site as we'd expect in rolling out a new website format.
The US site has always been the fastest for most of us to access and there's no login required like for the Chinese website in order to download stuff.

All that said, lately the EU site has been the easiest to get stuff from and the old format is still used like for the Chinese one:
http://www.siglenteu.com/index.aspx (http://www.siglenteu.com/index.aspx)

ALL manuals from time to time undergo revisions and it pays to check for new versions BUT it's currently just not that simple.  :-//
If we look at the Programming manual for SDG2kX and in the Documents page:
http://www.siglenteu.com/prodcut-wd.aspx?id=1115&tid=16&T=2 (http://www.siglenteu.com/prodcut-wd.aspx?id=1115&tid=16&T=2)
You'll see a version dated 2016-04-12
BUT in the Download Programming material page:
http://www.siglenteu.com/down.aspx?id=28 (http://www.siglenteu.com/down.aspx?id=28)
The new version is 2017-11-14.
This one is current and applies to all SDG series and models.

It's not an ideal situation to have to hunt out a latest version but with the websites going to be rolled into the new format like the US, now there's bound to be problems and Siglent need to watch this carefully to ensure manuals are easy to find and current.
The same goes for firmware and the 'by date' format that been used is very useful to me and I'm dismayed to see the full historical list of firmware updates is no longer listed on the US site.  :--
One only hopes that the factory web manager adds the full historical list on the new web layout


pigrew
You should update to the new version if only for the piece of mind that this offers:
1.Supported system recovery from U-disk.

If for some dumb reason your SDG2kX fails to boot someday you won't have to go to the trouble trying to restore it like Dave did when his SDG2122X froze unexpectedly recently.

Same applies to all SDG2kX owners that are holding back with FW updates because there's on 2 items in the latest FW changelog so why bother, I'll do it next time when there's greater advantage.  ::)

C'mon guys and gals, get your gear updated so it will at least perform the same as new units from the factory.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: pigrew on December 31, 2017, 11:48:51 am

One only hopes that the factory web manager adds the full historical list on the new web layout

Even worse, the USA webpage doesn't even list the version number. I have to click download and have it start downloading (EDIT: in order to see which version it is).

pigrew
You should update to the new version if only for the piece of mind that this offers:
1.Supported system recovery from U-disk.


Ok, ok... I just updated it.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on January 12, 2018, 11:03:02 pm
pigrew
You should update to the new version if only for the piece of mind that this offers:
1.Supported system recovery from U-disk.


Ok, ok... I just updated it.
Had a PM from a zero poster today with a boot frozen SDG2042X.
Luckily he reckons it has the latest FW installed so we can get some experience with U disk recovery.

I asked Siglent for it a few hrs back and they sent me a link to download it. It's a zipped 20 Mb folder that contains all the necessary files and a PDF with explicit instructions AND it only works with firmware 2.01.01.23R7 or later (not released as yet).
Anyway, the process to get this U disk recovery file is simple enough but I'm not sure it's for general publication so I shouldn't post the link until I'm told by Siglent I can, sorry. If you really need it, PM me.

So if Mvlc is watching some feedback on how the process went will be great.
TIA

Edit
He PM'ed me and the recovery was completely successful......so we know it works.  :)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: mvlc on January 13, 2018, 07:05:13 pm
Suddenly my SDG2042X (firmware 23R7) kept showing the Siglent Logo after startup without any response.
I searched the internet and EEVBlog forum and found that it's possible to do "system recovery from U-disk" with the latest firmware 23R7.
I contacted tautech and Siglent.eu and they send me the recovery files.

The procedure:

1. Use an empty 4GB (<8GB) USB-stick (FAT32) and copy the received files in the root directory.
2. Insert the USB in the SDG2042X and switch the SDG2042X on.
3. Wait about 2 minutes, every now and then the USB-LED blinks.
4. The GUI appears again. :)

Thanks to tautech and Siglent.eu for the good support.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: smarteebit on January 14, 2018, 12:12:35 am

I asked Siglent for it a few hrs back and they sent me a link to download it. It's a zipped 20 Mb folder that contains all the necessary files and a PDF with explicit instructions AND it only works with firmware 2.01.01.23R7 or later (not released as yet).


Is the firmware 2.01.01.23R7 released? Does that mean if I want my SDG2042X supporting recover from a U disk, I must update its firmware to 2.01.01.23R7 or later? Thx.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: mvlc on January 14, 2018, 02:49:56 am
Firmware 2.01.01.23R7 is available on the Siglent website.
http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDG2000X_2.01.01.23R7.zip (http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDG2000X_2.01.01.23R7.zip)
Yes, this latest version 2.01.01.23R7 must be on the device to enable USB system recovery.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: jasonbrent on February 11, 2018, 10:31:40 am
My 42X just arrived.... and is now a 120Mhz version, thank you... for those of you on MacOS, how are you interacting with the siglent SCPI over the LAN? I'm still going through the thread, but hoping someone has a pointer. Like someone else, I expected to just be able to telnet to a port and send commands like on the rigol.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: amham on February 14, 2018, 08:44:00 am
Does this hack still work for current late 2017 production of the SDG2042X?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bsas on February 18, 2018, 01:08:59 pm
Does this hack still work for current late 2017 production of the SDG2042X?

Same question, but now I am on 2018 :)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Safar on February 18, 2018, 08:45:28 pm
Does this hack still work for current late 2017 production of the SDG2042X?

Same question, but now I am on 2018 :)
I think you understand that this hack depends of FW but not HW. If FW version still the same as described in all GEN topics then no problem. If new one then it need to make some test. Anyway you can download modified FW with known telnet account and try to flash gen and then makes some file  changes. Hope that Siglent will leave all structures on same place in new versions.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: TechnoTroll on February 28, 2018, 10:46:12 am
So, if I buy a new SDG2042X and download the latest 23R7 firmware that has the revised telnet password, what are the steps to get 120 MHz please?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: chipss on March 01, 2018, 02:08:47 am
About to find out, have one on order.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Qw3rtzuiop on March 01, 2018, 02:16:52 am
Do a firmware downgrade to and follow the instructions:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/353/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/353/)
The firmware 17R5 should be the one to downgrade too.
http://www.siglent.com/ENs/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=1371&tid=15 (http://www.siglent.com/ENs/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=1371&tid=15)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: TechnoTroll on March 01, 2018, 06:13:54 am
Do a firmware downgrade to and follow the instructions:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/353/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/353/)
The firmware 17R5 should be the one to downgrade too.
http://www.siglent.com/ENs/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=1371&tid=15 (http://www.siglent.com/ENs/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=1371&tid=15)
With janekivi's 23R7 version, if I know the telnet password, can't I just find and delete the bandwidth_update_license line as shown in this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HcggjLN1LE)?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: CustomEngineerer on March 01, 2018, 10:29:12 am
Yes. Which is why we say there are 2 ways to accomplish the liberation.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: BillB on March 01, 2018, 10:34:54 am
SDG1000X 30Mhz was hacked to 60Mhz as easily, I heard.

I must be a little slow on the uptake, as I'm not finding much when searching for the SDG1032X solution.  :-/O

I have one that desperately wants to become an SDG1062X.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: TechnoTroll on March 01, 2018, 11:00:29 pm
Yes. Which is why we say there are 2 ways to accomplish the liberation.
Thanks, that's what I thought :D
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: ian.ameline on March 03, 2018, 11:01:41 am
I'm going to buy one of these -- looks great.

From the teardown pics and various posts here, it seeps that the main CPU (600Mhz Coretex ARM A8) has 128Meg of DDR3 ram - on one Micron DDR3 memory package. But interestingly, the FPGA has *2* of those DDR3 chips -- for 256Meg total. This is way more than the storage needed for 2 x 8M point x 16bit sample waveforms. In fact it is exactly 16 times as much as needed for 2 such waveforms.

Ram is not 0 cost -- I wonder why they have that much ram for the FPGA. Any speculation? 2 ram chips for 2x bandwidth, and same chips to reduce number of different parts on the BOM? Each of those RAM chips can reach 1.6GByte/sec bandwidth, peak, and somewhat less sustained - with 2 of them, that gives probably around 2.6 Gig/second - That's around 1.3MSamples/second total. If the actual sample rate per channel feeding in is 1/4 the sample rate (interpolated), x 2 channels, that would fit comfortably in the bandwidth of those 2 chips.

(It's fairly obvious that they use the same CPU board in many different instruments, so having it standardized is helpful - it has 128Meg of Ram and 256Meg of flash -- more than is needed for this signal generator)

There was well over 128Meg free on the flash, and well over 64Meg of Ram free after the device had booted.

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Plasmateur on March 03, 2018, 05:13:23 pm
Did Siglent ever figure out how to get both channels to trigger from a software trigger?

I must have been asking this question for over a year now.

Also, is there any way to do a phase locked pulsed sweep with this?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on March 03, 2018, 05:57:37 pm
Did Siglent ever figure out how to get both channels to trigger from a software trigger?

I must have been asking this question for over a year now.

Also, is there any way to do a phase locked pulsed sweep with this?
From a Feb FW changelog for SDG5000 models:
http://siglenteu.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=4059&tid=15 (http://siglenteu.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=4059&tid=15)
d.Manual trigger cannot trigger both channels simultaneously

Not actually what you've asked for but since the current FW is from 2017-09-07 it should be getting close to being added. I've pointed them a couple of times to your request.
Next week I'll ask now things are progressing.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Performa01 on March 03, 2018, 06:43:17 pm
Also, is there any way to do a phase locked pulsed sweep with this?

Just curious: What is a "pulsed sweep"? And what should it be phase-locked with?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bson on March 04, 2018, 10:54:46 am
Ram is not 0 cost -- I wonder why they have that much ram for the FPGA. Any speculation?
If I were to speculate I'd guess all waveforms are generated internally in RAM, then played back.

You can also upload waveforms and refer to them by name later, but I don't know if those are kept in RAM.  It could be it persists them to flash but reloads all waveforms into RAM on startup and expects to find them there during operation, rather than when requested.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: ian.ameline on March 05, 2018, 02:21:37 pm
Ram is not 0 cost -- I wonder why they have that much ram for the FPGA. Any speculation?
If I were to speculate I'd guess all waveforms are generated internally in RAM, then played back.

You can also upload waveforms and refer to them by name later, but I don't know if those are kept in RAM.  It could be it persists them to flash but reloads all waveforms into RAM on startup and expects to find them there during operation, rather than when requested.

Logged in as root while it's running -- free memory is around 85Meg while generating 2 different signals with many harmonics.

The provided arbitrary waveforms are only 32k each (16k samples at 2 bytes/per sample)

The FPGA has 256Meg -- that's where the waveforms will reside while being generated.

The UI app is only using a few percent of the cpu -- even while changing waveforms.

It looks like the CPU board is overkill for this application.

Here is the boot text;

<5>[    0.000000] Linux version 3.2.0-svn6268 (ding@ding-desktop) (gcc version 4.5.3 20110311 (prerelease) (GCC) ) #70 Fri Jul 21 11:47:50 ULAST 2017
<1>[    0.000000] CPU: ARMv7 Processor [413fc082] revision 2 (ARMv7), cr=10c53c7d
<1>[    0.000000] CPU: PIPT / VIPT nonaliasing data cache, VIPT aliasing instruction cache
<1>[    0.000000] Machine: am335xevm
<4>[    0.000000] Ignoring tag cmdline (using the default kernel command line)
<1>[    0.000000] Memory policy: ECC disabled, Data cache writeback
<7>[    0.000000] On node 0 totalpages: 32768
<7>[    0.000000] free_area_init_node: node 0, pgdat c05b7068, node_mem_map c0602000
<7>[    0.000000]   Normal zone: 256 pages used for memmap
<7>[    0.000000]   Normal zone: 0 pages reserved
<7>[    0.000000]   Normal zone: 32512 pages, LIFO batch:7
<6>[    0.000000] AM335X ES1.0 (neon )
<7>[    0.000000] pcpu-alloc: s0 r0 d32768 u32768 alloc=1*32768
<7>[    0.000000] pcpu-alloc:
<1>[    0.000000] Built 1 zonelists in Zone order, mobility grouping on.  Total pages: 32512
<5>[    0.000000] Kernel command line: console=ttyO0,115200n8 root=ubi0:rootfs ro ubi.mtd=7,2048 rootfstype=ubifs rootwait=1t ip=none
<6>[    0.000000] PID hash table entries: 512 (order: -1, 2048 bytes)
<6>[    0.000000] Dentry cache hash table entries: 16384 (order: 4, 65536 bytes)
<6>[    0.000000] Inode-cache hash table entries: 8192 (order: 3, 32768 bytes)
<6>[    0.000000] Memory: 128MB = 128MB total
<5>[    0.000000] Memory: 123756k/123756k available, 7316k reserved, 0K highmem
<5>[    0.000000] Virtual kernel memory layout:
<5>[    0.000000]     vector  : 0xffff0000 - 0xffff1000   (   4 kB)
<5>[    0.000000]     fixmap  : 0xfff00000 - 0xfffe0000   ( 896 kB)
<5>[    0.000000]     vmalloc : 0xc8800000 - 0xff000000   ( 872 MB)
<5>[    0.000000]     lowmem  : 0xc0000000 - 0xc8000000   ( 128 MB)
<5>[    0.000000]     modules : 0xbf000000 - 0xc0000000   (  16 MB)
<5>[    0.000000]       .text : 0xc0008000 - 0xc0529364   (5253 kB)
<5>[    0.000000]       .init : 0xc052a000 - 0xc056c000   ( 264 kB)
<5>[    0.000000]       .data : 0xc056c000 - 0xc05bd350   ( 325 kB)
<5>[    0.000000]        .bss : 0xc05bd374 - 0xc060103c   ( 272 kB)
<6>[    0.000000] NR_IRQS:396
<6>[    0.000000] IRQ: Found an INTC at 0xfa200000 (revision 5.0) with 128 interrupts
<6>[    0.000000] Total of 128 interrupts on 1 active controller
<6>[    0.000000] OMAP clockevent source: GPTIMER2 at 25000000 Hz
<4>[    0.000000] omap_dm_timer_switch_src: Switching to HW default clocksource(sys_clkin_ck) for timer1, this may impact timekeeping in low power state
<6>[    0.000000] OMAP clocksource: GPTIMER1 at 25000000 Hz
<6>[    0.000000] sched_clock: 32 bits at 25MHz, resolution 40ns, wraps every 171798ms
<6>[    0.000000] Console: colour dummy device 80x30
<6>[    0.000209] Calibrating delay loop... 718.02 BogoMIPS (lpj=3590144)
<6>[    0.057098] pid_max: default: 32768 minimum: 301
<6>[    0.057279] Mount-cache hash table entries: 512
<6>[    0.057665] CPU: Testing write buffer coherency: ok
<6>[    0.057741] ftrace: allocating 14556 entries in 43 pages
<4>[    0.109666] omap_hwmod: gfx: failed to hardreset
<4>[    0.125747] omap_hwmod: pruss: failed to hardreset
<6>[    0.126911] print_constraints: dummy:
<6>[    0.127220] NET: Registered protocol family 16
<6>[    0.129423] OMAP GPIO hardware version 0.1
<1>[    0.131682] am335x_evm_init()++
<6>[    0.131906] omap_mux_init: Add partition: #1: core, flags: 0
<1>[    0.134052] am335x_evm_i2c_init()++
<4>[    0.134295]  omap_i2c.1: alias fck already exists
<1>[    0.134502] am335x_evm_i2c_init()--
<1>[    0.134629] da8xx_panel_power_ctrl()++
<1>[    0.134668] back light switch = 1
<1>[    0.134690] da8xx_panel_power_ctrl()--
<1>[    0.135010] am335x_evm_init()--
<4>[    0.135304]  omap2_mcspi.1: alias fck already exists
<4>[    0.135525]  omap2_mcspi.2: alias fck already exists
<4>[    0.135792]  edma.0: alias fck already exists
<4>[    0.135814]  edma.0: alias fck already exists
<4>[    0.135833]  edma.0: alias fck already exists
<6>[    0.152750] bio: create slab <bio-0> at 0
<5>[    0.154907] SCSI subsystem initialized
<6>[    0.156705] usbcore: registered new interface driver usbfs
<6>[    0.157034] usbcore: registered new interface driver hub
<6>[    0.157293] usbcore: registered new device driver usb
<6>[    0.157906] omap_i2c omap_i2c.1: bus 1 rev2.4.0 at 100 kHz
<6>[    0.159687] tps65910 1-002d: JTAGREVNUM 0x0
<6>[    0.162075] print_constraints: VRTC:
<6>[    0.163517] print_constraints: VIO: at 1500 mV
<6>[    0.165823] print_constraints: VDD1: 600 <--> 1500 mV at 1262 mV normal
<6>[    0.168126] print_constraints: VDD2: 600 <--> 1500 mV at 1137 mV normal
<6>[    0.169155] print_constraints: VDD3: 5000 mV
<6>[    0.170565] print_constraints: VDIG1: at 1800 mV
<6>[    0.171980] print_constraints: VDIG2: at 1800 mV
<6>[    0.173394] print_constraints: VPLL: at 1800 mV
<6>[    0.174801] print_constraints: VDAC: at 1800 mV
<6>[    0.176228] print_constraints: VAUX1: at 1800 mV
<6>[    0.177636] print_constraints: VAUX2: at 3300 mV
<6>[    0.179069] print_constraints: VAUX33: at 3300 mV
<6>[    0.180482] print_constraints: VMMC: at 3300 mV
<4>[    0.180974] tps65910 1-002d: No interrupt support, no core IRQ
<6>[    0.182607] cfg80211: Calling CRDA to update world regulatory domain
<6>[    0.183254] Switching to clocksource gp timer
<6>[    0.204259] NET: Registered protocol family 2
<6>[    0.204472] IP route cache hash table entries: 1024 (order: 0, 4096 bytes)
<6>[    0.204764] TCP established hash table entries: 4096 (order: 3, 32768 bytes)
<6>[    0.204856] TCP bind hash table entries: 4096 (order: 2, 16384 bytes)
<6>[    0.204912] TCP: Hash tables configured (established 4096 bind 4096)
<6>[    0.204925] TCP reno registered
<6>[    0.204938] UDP hash table entries: 256 (order: 0, 4096 bytes)
<6>[    0.204962] UDP-Lite hash table entries: 256 (order: 0, 4096 bytes)
<6>[    0.205135] NET: Registered protocol family 1
<6>[    0.205418] RPC: Registered named UNIX socket transport module.
<6>[    0.205431] RPC: Registered udp transport module.
<6>[    0.205441] RPC: Registered tcp transport module.
<6>[    0.205450] RPC: Registered tcp NFSv4.1 backchannel transport module.
<3>[    0.206177] cpuidle-am33xx cpuidle-am33xx.0: failed to register driver
<6>[    0.213550] Installing knfsd (copyright (C) 1996 okir@monad.swb.de).
<6>[    0.213891] msgmni has been set to 241
<6>[    0.214558] io scheduler noop registered
<6>[    0.214573] io scheduler deadline registered
<6>[    0.214654] io scheduler cfq registered (default)
<6>[    0.215792] omap_uart.0: ttyO0 at MMIO 0x44e09000 (irq = 72) is a OMAP UART0
<6>[    0.766297] console [ttyO0] enabled
<6>[    0.770438] omap_uart.1: ttyO1 at MMIO 0x48022000 (irq = 73) is a OMAP UART1
<6>[    0.778228] omap_uart.2: ttyO2 at MMIO 0x48024000 (irq = 74) is a OMAP UART2
<6>[    0.785977] omap_uart.3: ttyO3 at MMIO 0x481a6000 (irq = 44) is a OMAP UART3
<6>[    0.793704] omap_uart.4: ttyO4 at MMIO 0x481a8000 (irq = 45) is a OMAP UART4
<6>[    0.801387] omap_uart.5: ttyO5 at MMIO 0x481aa000 (irq = 46) is a OMAP UART5
<6>[    0.818601] brd: module loaded
<6>[    0.826897] loop: module loaded
<6>[    0.830261] at24 1-0051: 32768 byte 24c256 EEPROM, writable, 64 bytes/write
<6>[    0.893296] No daughter card found
<6>[    0.896889] at24 1-0050: 32768 byte 24c256 EEPROM, writable, 64 bytes/write
<1>[    0.904159] am335x_evm_setup()++
<4>[    0.963295] AM335X: EVM Config read fail: -110
<6>[    0.967924] No board detected, using GPBoard 1.1A as default
<6>[    0.973972] The board is general purpose EVM in profile 0
<3>[    0.979597] Found invalid GP EVM revision, falling back to Rev1.1A
<1>[    0.986050] -------siglent_fpga_init++
<1>[    0.990055] -------siglent_fpga_init--
<4>[    0.994756]  da8xx_lcdc.0: alias fck already exists
<1>[    1.000284] evm_nand_init()++
<6>[    1.004003] omap-gpmc omap-gpmc: GPMC revision 6.0
<6>[    1.009005] Registering NAND on CS0
<1>[    1.013236] evm_nand_init()--
<1>[    1.017764] haptics_init()++
<1>[    1.021746] haptics_init()--
<1>[    1.024794] out_triger_gpio_init()++
<1>[    1.028557] out_triger_gpio_init()--
<1>[    1.032748] am335x_evm_setup()--
<3>[    1.037674] mtdoops: mtd device (mtddev=name/number) must be supplied
<6>[    1.044801] omap2-nand driver initializing
<6>[    1.049388] ONFI flash detected
<6>[    1.052791] ONFI param page 0 valid
<6>[    1.056465] NAND device: Manufacturer ID: 0x2c, Chip ID: 0xda (Micron MT29F2G08ABAEAWP)
<5>[    1.065152] Creating 12 MTD partitions on "omap2-nand.0":
<5>[    1.070796] 0x000000000000-0x000000020000 : "SPL"
<5>[    1.077162] 0x000000020000-0x000000040000 : "SPL.backup1"
<5>[    1.084113] 0x000000040000-0x000000060000 : "SPL.backup2"
<5>[    1.091002] 0x000000060000-0x000000080000 : "SPL.backup3"
<5>[    1.097969] 0x000000080000-0x000000260000 : "U-Boot"
<5>[    1.105199] 0x000000260000-0x000000280000 : "U-Boot Env"
<5>[    1.112014] 0x000000280000-0x000000580000 : "Manufacturedata"
<5>[    1.120550] 0x000000580000-0x000003080000 : "rootfs"
<5>[    1.144892] 0x000003080000-0x000003680000 : "kerneldata"
<5>[    1.154142] 0x000003680000-0x000006880000 : "firmdata0"
<5>[    1.181575] 0x000006880000-0x000009a80000 : "firmdata1"
<5>[    1.208986] 0x000009a80000-0x000010000000 : "datafs"
<6>[    1.257741] OneNAND driver initializing
<5>[    1.262444] UBI: attaching mtd7 to