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Products => Test Equipment => Topic started by: billfernandez on November 06, 2015, 09:43:15 pm

Title: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: billfernandez on November 06, 2015, 09:43:15 pm
I just got a Siglent SDG2042X Function & Arbitrary Waveform Generator.  I searched to see if there was a thread already started that focuses on this device and didn't find one, so am creating one.

Here's a thread on this forum announcing the new line of which this is a part:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg2000x-new-arbitary-generator/msg774407/#msg774407 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg2000x-new-arbitary-generator/msg774407/#msg774407)

And here's the thread for EEVBLOG #805, where Dave tears down the SDG2122X -- the 120MHz model in the SDG2xxxX line:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-805-siglent-sdg2122x-arb-generator-teardown/msg776709/#msg776709 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-805-siglent-sdg2122x-arb-generator-teardown/msg776709/#msg776709)
Title: Max Output into 50 Ohms
Post by: billfernandez on November 06, 2015, 10:02:08 pm
OUTPUT LEVEL VS DC OFFSETS

By default (0V DC offset) the output always swings symmetrically above and below ground.

Into 50 Ohms it can at most output a maximum voltage of +5V and a minimum voltage of -5V.  How you use that range is up to you.

For example, if you output a 10Vpp waveform, it will take up the whole range, and the device will not allow you to add a DC offset.

On the other hand, if you have a 1Vpp waveform, it will allow you to add an offset of up to +/- 4.5V. (remember that the 1Vpp swings from +1/2V to -1/2V.)


OUTPUT LEVEL VS FREQUENCY

When outputting sinewaves into a 50 Ohm load: For frequencies of up to 20MHz the unit lets you specify (and it will deliver) up to 10Vpp.  But above 20MHz (up to 40MHz for this model) the unit will only let you specify up to 5Vpp.

Same for squarewaves except that squarewave generation tops out at 25MHz.

Pulses have the same limits as squarewaves.

Ramps (triangle and sawtooth waves) have a maximum frequency of 1MHz, and a maximum output of 10Vpp into 50 Ohms.

The DC Offset output can only go to +/-5V.

Haven't figured out the limits for arbitrary waveforms.  All the ones I've tried have allowed me to specify up to 10Vpp, but I haven't generated a waveform faster than 10MHz (max frequency depends upon # of samples, etc.).


ABOVE 50 OHM LOAD

The documentation says that into a "high impedance" load the output can swing up to 20Vpp (-/+10V), but I haven't explored the limits thereof.
Title: Testing the speed limits of arbitrary waveform generation
Post by: billfernandez on November 06, 2015, 10:37:06 pm
The arbitrary waveform generator can play samples at a maximum rate of 75 megasamples/second.  But the minimum length of a sample set is 8 samples.  So the fastest rate at which you can play an 8-sample set is 9.375MHz.

In the EasyWave program I created a new wave:
   9 points
   40MHz
   20Vpp
I used 9 points so that I could create a symmetrical waveform with no discontinuities where the sample set repeats.

Then I edited the waveform to create a sawtooth waveform with 4 peaks, from 0V to +10V.

Then ran it on the unit in DDS mode at 20MHz, 10Vpp, into 50 Ohms.

What I saw on my scope was an 80MHz softened sawtooth at about 4Vpp, with, that seemed to be amplitude modulated with a 960mVpp, 20MHz sinewave.

Also, the entire waveform seemed to be offset about 400-400mV above 0V.

Then I switched the arbitrary waveform generator from "DDS" (Direct Digital Synthesise) mode to "TrueArb" mode.  The result on the scope was a 3MHz squarewave, with no offset above 0V, with amplitude of 5.2V, and a discontinuity where the sample set repeats. 

I've noticed that TrueArb seems to add a short 0V segment at each sample-set repeat point.  I've also noticed that DDS and TruArb produce distinctly different waveforms, and I'm still trying to figure out what's going on.

I've attached a few files showing screen shots.
Title: Re: Testing the speed limits of arbitrary waveform generation
Post by: alank2 on November 07, 2015, 02:41:35 am
But the minimum length of a sample set is 8 samples.  So the fastest rate at which you can play an 8-sample set is 9.375MHz.

It will go down to 2 even though the documentation says 8.  I didn't test this with loading a CSV file, but a BIN file.

It will also autoscale a CSV file, so if the maximum value given is -1 to +1, it will scale those to the lowest value to the highest value.  The amplitude will actually be driven by the amplitude setting.

I used 9 points so that I could create a symmetrical waveform with no discontinuities where the sample set repeats.

This is necessary for the DDS mode because the final sample does not get a time slot like the TrueArb mode does.

In TrueArb mode if you have 4 samples, sample 0, 1, 2, and 3 will have the same amount of time each is "played" at the sample rate.

In DDS mode, if you have 4 samples, sample 0 is the left edge and sample 3 is the right edge of the waveform.  DDS mode interpolates between samples.  What you have then is a time slot assigned to sample 0-1, 1-2, and finally 2-3.  This is why you want sample 3 to be the same as sample 0.  Otherwise it will end at 3 and then instantly SNAP to sample 0.  There is no time slot assigned to sample 3-0.

I've noticed that TrueArb seems to add a short 0V segment at each sample-set repeat point.  I've also noticed that DDS and TruArb produce distinctly different waveforms, and I'm still trying to figure out what's going on.

They are completely different, one interpolates a waveform and the other plays samples.

By the way, you can load CSV files of your own samples without having to use or make them with EasyWave.  Just use this format:

data length,8
xpos,value
,1
,-1
,1
,-1
,1
,-1
,1
,-1

In this case 1 being the highest value will be scaled to the maximum and -1 being the lowest value will be scaled to the minimum.

What the generator does with this file is turns it into this binary file (see picture)

It is a simple 2 byte signed integer array.  FF 7F 00 80 --> 0x7FFF (highest value from the "1") followed by 0x8000 (lowest value from the -1).  0x0000 would be the center.

You can load binary files directly from a USB stick though they will not be copied to the internal drive.

I was very impressed with the arbitrary wave testing I did on the Siglent.  It excels at generating waveforms with its interpolating DDS mode, and you can use its TrueArb mode with deep memory to deliver 8M samples at the sample rate you choose.  That means you could send 8M/10=838860 8-bit UART frames (1 start, 8 data, 1 stop) using TrueArb!
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: billfernandez on November 07, 2015, 04:30:08 am
@AlanK2 thanks for your comments.  I'll do some experiments.
Title: Sync/trigger output
Post by: billfernandez on November 07, 2015, 04:44:41 am
The documentation says that the unit can generate a sync/trigger pulse out of a BNC jack on the back of the unit, but only for waveforms with frequencies of up to 1MHz. 

I found that the 1MHz limit was true for the built-in sine, square, pulse and ramp functions, but that you could push up to about 1.9MHz when in TruArb arbitrary waveform mode (I didn't test DDS).  As the frequency increases the space between trigger pulses gets narrower, but the pulse width remains the same at about 508nS.

Also, the sync pulse seems to be offset from the start of the waveform pattern.  For example in the picture below of a 1MHz sinewave, neither the leading nor trailing edge of the sync pulse aligns with the zero crossing or peak of the sinewave.

Below are some pictures showing the sync pulse in relationship to a 1MHz sinewave, then to a TruArb waveform played at 1MHz, 1.5MHz and 1.9MHz, which is about as fast as you can go before losing the sync pulse.
Title: Siglent SDG2042X Squarewave performance
Post by: billfernandez on November 10, 2015, 01:56:45 am
I have been looking at the squarewave output of my new Siglent SDG2042X. I've run a BNC cable directly to a 50Ohm inline shunt that is attached directly to the DC-coupled input of my 200MHz, 2.5Gs/S, Fluke 199C ScopeMeter.

RISE AND FALL TIMES:
Rise and fall times appear to be symmetrical across the range I tested (from 1Hz to 25MHz -- the max freq of the unit). At 1Hz rise and fall times are about 9.6nS.  From 1kHz to 25MHz rise and and fall times read about 8.2nS.  The spec for the unit is 7.5nS, and my scope's rise time is rated at 1.7nS.

SHAPE:
From about 2 to 6 MHz the tops and bottoms, although straight, are a bit tilted. Below this range the tops and bottoms are horizontal. 

By about 10MHz the (apoprox) 8nS rise/fall time starts taking up a significant portion of each cycle, until at 25MHz the waveforms look more like truncated sinewaves than square waves.

At all frequencies the transitions at the tops of bottoms of each rise and fall are rounded.  There is no particular overshoot, undershoot.  There is no ringing.

NOISE:
The output of this unit is surprisingly noisy.  It ranges from about 0.5mVpp at 1kHz to about 1Vpp at 25MHz.

CONCLUSION:
Except for the noise the squarewave output is well-behaved over the tested frequency range, although the output hardly looks like a squarewave above, say 10MHz due to the constant (approx) 8nS rise and fall times.

There is a sampling of representative screen shots below.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Salas on November 10, 2015, 02:27:22 am
Noisy...bad. Can you show non averaged 100mV pk=pk 1kHz 1MHZ 10MHZ Square so we get the idea? How do you find the general ergonomics, i.e. can it be used fast enough without frustration, and how is the side fan's noise? Thanx
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: billfernandez on November 10, 2015, 03:00:24 am
How do you find the general ergonomics, i.e. can it be used fast enough without frustration, and how is the side fan's noise?

General ergonomics are generally good.  Many settings are fast and easy.  It's also got its share of awkward and weird user interface design choices. The knob and the buttons all have really good tactile feedback.

Fan is clearly audible, but soft and low frequency.  I find that I don't mind it at all.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Salas on November 10, 2015, 03:14:11 am
Thank you.

P.S. Can your handheld scope limit at 20MHz by the way? Then run 1kHZ 100mVpp square comparing with full bandwidth scope setting just in case significant noise comes from the scope. Because 0.5Vpp noise seems much to a fault.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: billfernandez on November 10, 2015, 04:01:14 am
0.5Vpp noise seems much...

Oops, that should say 0.5mVpp at 1kHz.

At present I'm doing a series of tests at the full 200MHz bandwidth of my scope because I'm bouncing around over a wide range.  Later I'll bandwidth limit at 20MHz and try again with the lower frequencies.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: cnkz on November 10, 2015, 01:54:14 pm
For the tests i have done with the arbitrary generator:

- 9-points (as you tried above) seems not to be  possible. It seems the generator use 16-points instead, means jumps from 8-points to 16-points (this tests i have done with the old firmware, need to re-check this with the latest firmware)

- In truARB mode the output sampling rate is 75Ms/s, in DDS mode it is 125Ms/s

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: alank2 on November 10, 2015, 02:04:21 pm
- 9-points (as you tried above) seems not to be  possible. It seems the generator use 16-points instead, means jumps from 8-points to 16-points (this tests i have done with the old firmware, need to re-check this with the latest firmware)

I'm using the latest firmware and I've successfully only loaded 2 points.  In DDS mode it interpolates between samples and in TrueArb mode is plays the samples.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: cnkz on November 10, 2015, 04:27:18 pm
Did you tried other (odd) number of points also?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: alank2 on November 10, 2015, 04:44:25 pm
Did you tried other (odd) number of points also?

Yes - I just tested 1 pt, 2 pts, 8 pts, and 9 pts, and tried both DDS and TrueArb modes on each.  They all did what I would have expected.
Title: Re: Siglent SDG2042X Squarewave performance
Post by: smarteebit on November 13, 2015, 12:43:40 am

NOISE:
The output of this unit is surprisingly noisy.  It ranges from about 0.5Vpp at 1kHz to about 1Vpp at 25MHz.



What is the noise level of your scope when no input @ 2V/div ?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: gby on November 13, 2015, 07:02:11 pm
On my SDG2042X using an old Tektronix TDS-420A 200 MHz oscilloscope and connecting with a BNC cable direct to scope with 50 Ohm termination I don't see any noise issues.  With scope set to 0.5 V/div and the generator outputting 3.0 Vpp at 100 kHz I see basically no noise.  The square wave flat section trace is a single pixel width.  I even put the scope in envelope mode to capture any deviations over 200 sweeps and the tested square wave width is less than 60 mVp-p which matches the scope when the input is internally 50 Ohm terminated and no BNC cable connected.  Same result with the scope in peak detect mode.

I conclude that this generator output is very quiet/very low spurious noise.  I suspect the test setup and/or equipment in billfernandez's test result that was noisy.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: gby on November 13, 2015, 07:08:47 pm
SDG2042X has open telnet port with no user name or password required. 

I just connected with Putty.exe to the network IP address on port 23 and got right in with no request for a user name or password.  So, I had a look around to see how the system was configured.  No surprise it is Linux based running on an ARM 7 CPU.  It was a bit of a surprise to see the log on message say "SDG800 project" which tells me that the SDG2000 FW is based on the SDG800 FW in some way.  For everyone's reference below is a log of my poking around cleaned up and organized a little.

If anyone has any questions on things to check/poke at ask away and I will try.

Code: [Select]
===============================================
|SIGLENT SDG800 project        /dev/pts/0
===============================================
SIGLENT Project http://         (none)
/ # ls
bin      etc      lib      media    proc     sbin     tmp      var
dev      home     linuxrc  mnt      root     sys      usr

*** lscpu, lshw, lsusb, do not work

/ # cat /proc/cpuinfo
Processor       : ARMv7 Processor rev 2 (v7l)
BogoMIPS        : 718.02
Features        : swp half thumb fastmult vfp edsp thumbee neon vfpv3 tls
CPU implementer : 0x41
CPU architecture: 7
CPU variant     : 0x3
CPU part        : 0xc08
CPU revision    : 2

Hardware        : am335xevm
Revision        : 0000
Serial          : 0000000000000000
/ # cat /proc/meminfo
MemTotal:         124528 kB
MemFree:           83820 kB
Buffers:               0 kB
Cached:            14096 kB
SwapCached:            0 kB
Active:            24476 kB
Inactive:           6472 kB
Active(anon):      16852 kB
Inactive(anon):        0 kB
Active(file):       7624 kB
Inactive(file):     6472 kB
Unevictable:           0 kB
Mlocked:               0 kB
SwapTotal:             0 kB
SwapFree:              0 kB
Dirty:                 4 kB
Writeback:             0 kB
AnonPages:         16880 kB
Mapped:             4540 kB
Shmem:                 0 kB
Slab:               5248 kB
SReclaimable:       2288 kB
SUnreclaim:         2960 kB
KernelStack:         488 kB
PageTables:          236 kB
NFS_Unstable:          0 kB
Bounce:                0 kB
WritebackTmp:          0 kB
CommitLimit:       62264 kB
Committed_AS:     138708 kB
VmallocTotal:     892928 kB
VmallocUsed:       10496 kB
VmallocChunk:     803904 kB
/ # cat /proc/version
Linux version 3.2.0+ (ding@ding-desktop) (gcc version 4.5.3 20110311 (prerelease) (GCC) ) #19 Wed Sep 9 16:32:51 ULAT 2015

/ # df
Filesystem           1K-blocks      Used Available Use% Mounted on
ubi0:rootfs              36008     15412     20596  43% /
mdev                     62264         0     62264   0% /dev
ubi1_0                  174664       120    174544   0% /usr/bin/siglent/usr
/usr/bin/siglent/usr/usr # df -h
Filesystem                Size      Used Available Use% Mounted on
ubi0:rootfs              35.2M     15.0M     20.1M  43% /
mdev                     60.8M         0     60.8M   0% /dev
ubi1_0                  170.6M    132.0K    170.4M   0% /usr/bin/siglent/usr
/ # free
              total         used         free       shared      buffers
  Mem:       124528        40744        83784            0            0
 Swap:            0            0            0
Total:       124528        40744        83784

/ # ls /usr/bin/siglent/usr
config       log          usr          version.txt

/ # ls /usr/bin/siglent/usr/usr
4096-10x-Triangle.bin  STATE01GBY.xml

/ # cat /usr/bin/siglent/usr/version.txt
Date:2014-12-13
Author:Bookwore.Peng

Version:1.0
  Ceating datafs
/ #


/ # ls /usr/bin/siglent
config     drivers    numen.app  upgrade    usr

/ # ls /usr/bin/siglent/upgrade
ReadMe.txt  datafs.img
/ # cat /usr/bin/siglent/upgrade/ReadMe.txt
Author:Boowkore.peng 2015.06.08
When "data fs " crashed, "datafs.img" file is used to format the new "data fs"/u           
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: TheSteve on November 13, 2015, 07:49:30 pm
Time to start looking for the license file or a file with limits in it so you can hack/enable more features, bandwidth etc.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: alank2 on November 13, 2015, 07:51:50 pm
There is no reason to even bother hacking it.  The only difference/limitation between models is the top sine wave frequency only, and you can easily use an arbitrary wave with 10 sine waves in it to get by that limitation.

BTW, I love my SDG2082X - I truly did not know what I was missing not having a signal gen.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: TheSteve on November 13, 2015, 07:53:49 pm
There is no reason to even bother hacking it.  The only difference/limitation between models is the top sine wave frequency only, and you can easily use an arbitrary wave with 10 sine waves in it to get by that limitation.

Where is your sense of adventure? :)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: alank2 on November 13, 2015, 07:56:22 pm
I'll say it again, I think the SDG2042X is going to be the next DS1052 in signal gens.  Everything is in place for it to do so much more.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: smgvbest on November 13, 2015, 11:04:08 pm
Nice read in this thread.   I just ordered a SDG2122X and should be here for my birthday (it was my birthday present to myself)  Ordered from TEquipment.
Have to say they are great.   They recently had it on sale and honored the EEVBLOG discount so got it for just over 700  :clap:  :phew:
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: alank2 on November 13, 2015, 11:52:45 pm
Good for you smgvbest - I really love my SDG2082X.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on November 14, 2015, 01:29:51 am
Nice read in this thread.   I just ordered a SDG2122X and should be here for my birthday (it was my birthday present to myself)  Ordered from TEquipment.
Have to say they are great.   They recently had it on sale and honored the EEVBLOG discount so got it for just over 700  :clap:  :phew:
Congrats, I only heard good stuff too from my internal sources.  ;)

Good for you smgvbest - I really love my SDG2082X.
Thanks for your feedback too.  :-+
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: analogNewbie on November 14, 2015, 08:45:42 am
Well, I got mine yesterday. It costs me about USD500 in China.  And this is what I've done to it this afternoon...


Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on November 14, 2015, 08:53:25 am
Well, I got mine yesterday. It costs me about USD500 in China.  And this is what I've done to it this afternoon...
:o   8)
Care to share your secret  :-/O for others too?

Hmm, seems like you've had this plan for a while. well done, the FIRST Siglent I've heard of hacked.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-805-siglent-sdg2122x-arb-generator-teardown/msg776709/#msg776709 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-805-siglent-sdg2122x-arb-generator-teardown/msg776709/#msg776709)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: TheSteve on November 14, 2015, 09:08:36 am
Well, I got mine yesterday. It costs me about USD500 in China.  And this is what I've done to it this afternoon...

Top work! Can't help but think Siglent will try to stop this though, I don't think they are as entertained by software mods as Rigol is. Might want to keep the mod quiet for the time being until there are more of them out there.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on November 14, 2015, 09:14:44 am
Well, I got mine yesterday. It costs me about USD500 in China.  And this is what I've done to it this afternoon...

Top work! Can't help but think Siglent will try to stop this though, I don't think they are as entertained by software mods as Rigol is. Might want to keep the mod quiet for the time being until there are more of them out there.
I have no idea how they might view this, I personally have no problem with it, if they've not closed and locked the door  ;) then who's at fault?
You just might not want to upload new FW onto it though.
Let's take note of the HW version and build date and see if they shut the door with new builds.

@analogNewbie
The last 4 digits of the SN are the units SN, what are the preceding digits, they identify the build date?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: analogNewbie on November 14, 2015, 09:17:47 am
This signal generator is implemented like a dev board |O .... You can download and upload anything you want.  So you can just modify 1 byte in the app of the equipment and get 120M unlocked. Now I have totally lost the will to research the algoritm :palm:
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on November 14, 2015, 09:20:43 am
This signal generator is implemented like a dev board |O .... You can download and upload anything you want.  So you can just modify 1 byte in the app of the equipment and get 120M unlocked. Now I have totally lost the will to research the algoritm :palm:
:-DD
But you no longer need to......easy crack.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: analogNewbie on November 14, 2015, 09:27:07 am
Well, I got mine yesterday. It costs me about USD500 in China.  And this is what I've done to it this afternoon...

Top work! Can't help but think Siglent will try to stop this though, I don't think they are as entertained by software mods as Rigol is. Might want to keep the mod quiet for the time being until there are more of them out there.
I have no idea how they might view this, I personally have no problem with it, if they've not closed and locked the door  ;) then who's at fault?
You just might not want to upload new FW onto it though.
Let's take note of the HW version and build date and see if they shut the door with new builds.

@analogNewbie
The last 4 digits of the SN are the units SN, what are the preceding digits, they identify the build date?

I have no idea about the SN number. After I hacked the app ,the 40M license is still valid. I think the license contains the infomation about freq and SN. A valid license will update the freq range. I just bypassed this result.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: analogNewbie on November 16, 2015, 04:43:20 am
Well. I am still working on the algorithm and I have made some progress.

The DC  level accuracy is poor btw...
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on November 16, 2015, 06:10:00 am
Well. I am still working on the algorithm and I have made some progress.

The DC  level accuracy is poor btw...
This very much depends on the AWG output setup matching the termination used. 50 Ohm or Hi-Z

How have you come to this conclusion?
How much is the error?
Pics?
Waveforms?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: analogNewbie on November 16, 2015, 11:48:37 am
It's not too bad, but I think they can do better.

The INL of this 16bit DAC is +- 3.7LSB. If it outputs the DC offset with a dedicated 18bit DAC, it will be better. :-DD
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: smarteebit on November 17, 2015, 05:51:40 am
It's not too bad, but I think they can do better.

The INL of this 16bit DAC is +- 3.7LSB. If it outputs the DC offset with a dedicated 18bit DAC, it will be better. :-DD

DC accuracy is a system spec. It's not enough to keep the eyes on the INL or DNL spec of the DAC. Every analog device on the signal chain could contribute uncertainty/error to the DC accuracy, such as Vos and nonlinearity of the OPAmps.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: cnkz on November 17, 2015, 09:29:38 am
This signal generator is implemented like a dev board |O .... You can download and upload anything you want.  So you can just modify 1 byte in the app of the equipment and get 120M unlocked. Now I have totally lost the will to research the algoritm :palm:

Of cause i am very interested in more details.... :clap:
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: jackenhack on November 17, 2015, 12:40:17 pm
This signal generator is implemented like a dev board |O .... You can download and upload anything you want.  So you can just modify 1 byte in the app of the equipment and get 120M unlocked. Now I have totally lost the will to research the algoritm :palm:

One more vote for more info!  :)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: analogNewbie on November 17, 2015, 04:20:27 pm
I've found another way to unlock....

Most equipments lost all the options when no valid license is found, this one is implemented the other way :palm:. If the xml file contains the license is missing, it creates a new one and turns to be a SDG2122x.

Since I am new to this forum, I am not sure if it is good to publish the details.
Not sure how Siglent would do to it. Did they do this on purpose? Maybe Dave can interview the Siglent CEO later.

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: smgvbest on November 18, 2015, 12:04:08 am
Looking at the readings and the spec sheet for DC of +/-1%+2mV it looks like all those readings are in spec and that's what's important right?
I am assuming the comment is they to say  on the DC characteristics that they could improve the results by using a dedicated DAC for the DC offset correct?

I have to say I'm very happy with it so far.   very much in spec.   hooked up to a external reference it's very accurate.
internal reference has a std-dev of 32hz @ 15Mhz and on the external reference it was 39uhz @ 15Mhz and 1.056Hz @ 111,999,652 Mhz  (just a random frequency near the top of range on external reference)   I'm very happy with that and the DC is all within spec.


It's not too bad, but I think they can do better.

The INL of this 16bit DAC is +- 3.7LSB. If it outputs the DC offset with a dedicated 18bit DAC, it will be better. :-DD

DC accuracy is a system spec. It's not enough to keep the eyes on the INL or DNL spec of the DAC. Every analog device on the signal chain could contribute uncertainty/error to the DC accuracy, such as Vos and nonlinearity of the OPAmps.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: analogNewbie on November 18, 2015, 01:00:37 am
It's not too bad, but I think they can do better.

The INL of this 16bit DAC is +- 3.7LSB. If it outputs the DC offset with a dedicated 18bit DAC, it will be better. :-DD

DC accuracy is a system spec. It's not enough to keep the eyes on the INL or DNL spec of the DAC. Every analog device on the signal chain could contribute uncertainty/error to the DC accuracy, such as Vos and nonlinearity of the OPAmps.

Are you from the siglent? I suggest that you guys embed drivers of some well-known usb wifi chip.  :)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: smarteebit on November 18, 2015, 01:29:33 am
It's not too bad, but I think they can do better.

The INL of this 16bit DAC is +- 3.7LSB. If it outputs the DC offset with a dedicated 18bit DAC, it will be better. :-DD

DC accuracy is a system spec. It's not enough to keep the eyes on the INL or DNL spec of the DAC. Every analog device on the signal chain could contribute uncertainty/error to the DC accuracy, such as Vos and nonlinearity of the OPAmps.

Are you from the siglent? I suggest that you guys embed drivers of some well-known usb wifi chip.  :)

As I know, Siglent has a public account on this forum. You should feedback this to it.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread & BW Hack
Post by: tautech on November 18, 2015, 04:07:38 am
It's not too bad, but I think they can do better.

The INL of this 16bit DAC is +- 3.7LSB. If it outputs the DC offset with a dedicated 18bit DAC, it will be better. :-DD

DC accuracy is a system spec. It's not enough to keep the eyes on the INL or DNL spec of the DAC. Every analog device on the signal chain could contribute uncertainty/error to the DC accuracy, such as Vos and nonlinearity of the OPAmps.

Are you from the siglent? I suggest that you guys embed drivers of some well-known usb wifi chip.  :)
FYI
Some in Siglent have seen this thread and now know of your fine efforts.  :-DD

Whether Siglent will choose to shut this door is unknown by me at this stage.
All I can suggest is if there is a FW upgrade released very soon......well you know what that might fix.  :scared:
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: gby on November 23, 2015, 05:20:46 pm
External Input Details:

I have been testing the analog input used for external modulation input and have figured out its characteristics.

From the Specification Sheet:
Input Impedance:          10 k Ohm min
Frequency:                    0 to 50 kHz
100% Modulation:          11/12/13 min/nom/max

Based On Tests:
A/D range:                    -6 V to +6V nominal
Bits:                              9 (lsb = 12V/512 = 23.4 mV)
Sampling Frequency:      300/512 MHz = 585.9375 kHz
Low Pass Filter:              >10 MHz/none
Input to Output Delay:    1 sample (1.707 uSec)
DC offset:                      -27 mV or 1 lsb on the particular test instrument

Note:  Output offset adjustment is after modulation.  Setting wave amplitude to 0 and offset to 1 V with modulation on gives a dc 1V output and not 1V modulated.

The test I ran used a second generator to drive the SDG2042X external input and set the SDG2042X to DSB AM with the carrier set to 1 mHz 10 Vpp input 50 Ohm load.  Using this setup I could directly look at the external modulation input to CH1 output path with a constant gain factor while the carrier was high and/or low.

When I input sine waves below 250 kHz there was no aliasing.  Input frequency of 585938 Hz aliased to almost zero Hz.  Given the 300 MHz DDS sub-system clock that probably means the SDG2042X is using that clock divided by 512 for the A/D.  I also measured the quantization step time length and that period coincided.

I then input an external square wave to look at the rise time.  Basically it jumped up the full step amplitude in 1 and a small fraction sample times hence the conclusion there is no anti-alias low pass filter before the A/D.  I also put in 2.92 MHz sine and the aliased output of 9.687 kHz was only half amplitude and I expect an issue with the A/D sampling being not fast enough to see 2.92 MHz rather than an actual low pass filter.

I used the scope in sweep averaging mode with a trigger from the external modulation input.  The output showed a full A/D sample frequency of delay followed by a linear slope from the many sweep averages over another sample period.  See attached scope plot.  So, the net phase delay from input to output is 1.5 A/D samples periods or 2.56 uSec.

Lastly, I wondered about the A/D being 9 bits.  I am familiar with 8, 10, 12, 14, and 16 bits converters but not 9.  So, I wondered if the Siglent SDG2042X might being using an 8 bit unipolar A/D and adding input analog processing to rectify the input signal to get the 9th bit.  Looking carefully at small amplitude (500 mVpp) signals around zero there was clearly a huge flat spot in the output around 0 implying that the input analog rectifier being used to convert the 8 bit unipolar A/D into 8 bit plus sign converter is not the best.  In fact, for quality waveforms you really need the external modulation input to be above about 1.5 Vpp.  If the slew rate through 0 is fast enough from either higher frequencies or through larger amplitude it seems to work much better.  For example, 10 kHz input small amplitude sine looked better than 2 kHz input sine same amplitude.

Given the poor response through 0 on this converter I took at picture to show how bad it can be.  500 mV p-p input sinewave (scope not showing 10x probe atten on sine input) with very low distortion yielding (5V 0-p)/(6 Vdc)*(500 mV) = 417 mV p-p ideally. 
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: alank2 on December 02, 2015, 03:36:30 am
So, can you send commands over the LAN port directly?  I tried to connect with telnet on open ports, but none worked.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: cnkz on December 02, 2015, 09:45:59 am
I used telnet with default ports (did not specify anything) and it worked
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: alank2 on December 02, 2015, 12:47:27 pm
I used telnet with default ports (did not specify anything) and it worked

To get console access to the OS, right?

How about getting access to controlling the generator so you can issue commands like *IDN?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: pascal_sweden on December 02, 2015, 01:12:06 pm
I remember from another thread about upgrading the Hantek signal generator from 5 MHz to 100 MHz, that increasing the bandwidth as such, could actually require a new calibration/adjustment of the device.

Link to the Hantek HDG2000B series:
http://www.hantek.com/en/ProductDetail_149.html (http://www.hantek.com/en/ProductDetail_149.html)

Link to the thread where they talk about the upgrade from 5 MHz to 100 MHz, and indicate the need for a new calibration/adjustment after the BW upgrade:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hantek-hdg2002b-awg-5mhz-or-100mhz-let's-see!/msg727235/#msg727235 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hantek-hdg2002b-awg-5mhz-or-100mhz-let's-see!/msg727235/#msg727235)

This makes me conclude that the upgrade from 40 MHz to 120 MHz on the Siglent SDG2042X might also require a full calibration/adjustment? Is this something which can be confirmed/denied by making actual measurements after the upgrade?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: cnkz on December 02, 2015, 02:44:45 pm
How would the update via Update-Code work if you need to re-calibrate?

From what i have measured (amplitude only so far) it works nice. The amplitude is correct.

The higher harmonics are getting quite large, especially for output voltages higher than 1Vpp. That has already been showed by Dave in his review video of the SDG2122X that the performance at high frequencies was not that great... It seems the non-linearities are coming from the output amplifier, by going to 1Vpp you can hear a relay switching and at the same time the third harmonic comes up...
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: analogNewbie on December 03, 2015, 02:07:52 pm
The easiest way by now is to backup and remove the file /usr/bin/siglent/config/NSP_system_info.xml

This file contains the serial number and bandwidth license info. If the license is missing, it turns to a SDG2122x :wtf:

It will generate a new SDG2122x license with serial no 0123456789. Since this could be easily fixed by siglent, consider this as a gift for the 1st batch buyers from them. ^-^

This works for 2.01.01.15R2 version(the latest at the moment).

read file content:
/usr/bin/siglent/config # cat NSP_system_info.xml
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<nsp_system_info_root>
  <device>
    <system_information>
      <serial_number>
        <chip>SDG2XBAxxxxxx</chip>
      </serial_number>
    <license><bandwidth_update_license>xxxxxx</bandwidth_update_license></license></system_information>
  </device>
</nsp_system_info_root>

backup and remove the file:
mv /usr/bin/siglent/config/NSP_system_info.xml /usr/bin/siglent/config/NSP_system_info.xml.bak
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: kado on December 03, 2015, 02:40:36 pm
Thanks for the info analogNewbie,

how could i download or upload a file via Telnet?
Put or get seem not to work. Is it possible to install any utility in the filesystem to keep the door open after
Siglent closed the gap with next update?

Karsten
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: analogNewbie on December 03, 2015, 03:48:14 pm
first you should run a tftp server on pc. (tftp32.exe)
you can use these cmds to upload and download files:
tftp -l localfilename -p  192.168.1.123 
tftp -r remotefilename -g 192.168.1.123

/ # tftp
BusyBox v1.13.2 (2012-04-08 17:28:57 CDT) multi-call binary

Usage: tftp [OPTION]... HOST [PORT]

Transfer a file from/to tftp server

Options:
        -l FILE Local FILE
        -r FILE Remote FILE
        -g      Get file
        -p      Put file


In the future, Siglent might block the telnet interface. So everything is at you own risk. Good luck.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: CustomEngineerer on December 03, 2015, 05:25:20 pm
analogNewbie, is reverting the change as simple as moving the backup back to /usr/bin/siglent/config/NSP_system_info.xml?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: CustomEngineerer on December 04, 2015, 03:01:08 am
Got a SDG2042X last week and today noticed something that doesn't seem right. I haven't tested all possible combinations of settings for this (only Linear vs Log seem to make a difference) but when generating a linear sweep, the sweep starts at the center frequency, goes up to the end frequency, jumps back to the start frequency and then goes back up to the center frequency (then starts over if trigger source is set to internal, or stays at center frequency if trigger source is manual). If I set the sweep type to log, the sweep starts at the start frequency and ends at the stop frequency like I was expecting. None of the other settings seem to have any affect on this behavior, including using CenterFreq/FreqSpan instead of StartFreq/StopFreq. I am testing by hooking the generator directly to my scope with a coax, generator set to 50Ohm Load and scope set to 50Ohm input. This is the first generator that I've owned that could do sweeps so maybe they all behave this way, but to me it seems like both Linear & Log sweep types should work like the Log sweep does. To make it easier to verify this behavior I set the sweep trigger source to manual (though it does the same if set to internal) and the generator outputs the center frequency when set to Linear, and the start frequency when set to Log, until I manually click the Trigger button to start the sweep. Probably not a big deal just didn't seem quite right to me. Or I just don't know how sweeps are supposed to work (which wouldn't surprise me).

SDG2042X
Hardware Version: 01-07-00-23-00
Software Version: 2.01.01.15R2 (latest to the best of my knowledge)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: alank2 on December 04, 2015, 03:11:33 am
I've reported this as a bug and was told it was accepted and should be fixed in the next firmware version.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: CustomEngineerer on December 04, 2015, 06:05:31 am
alank2, awesome, thank you for doing that.

As for your question about sending commands to the SDG2042X. I notice it has ports 23 (telnet) and 111 (rpc) open by default. Using the siglent easywave software I connected to the SDG and watched the data sent back and forth. It looks like easywave first makes a RPC call on tcp 111 to the SDG to open another port. The SDG opens tcp port 703 and then easywave and the SDG communicate on that port so you might be able to connect on that port.

After that I tried rigol's ultra sigma software and told it to connect to the SDG's IP address, launched its SCPI control panel and was able to send and read data from the SDG.

 * Connected to: TCPIP::192.168.8.42::INSTR
-> *IDN?
<- (Return Count:54)
Siglent Technologies,SDG2042X,SDG2XB********,2.01.01.15R2

It looks like ultra sigma is also connecting over tcp port 703. Finally I tried the RigolBildschirmkopie software and it was able to connect and allowed me to send remote commands and read data from the SDG as well.

edit: forgot to mention that once I had connected to the SDG once, tcp port 9009 is also now open.
And running netstat on the SDG shows that is it also listening to tcp ports 708 and 709, and udp ports 111 and 699, though these don't appear to be open from the outside.

edit2: Not trying to suggest you need rigol software (also not suggesting RigolBildschirmkopie is made by rigol) to talk to your siglent generator, I just already had those 2 programs installed. I'm sure any software that can send SCPI commands would work.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: alank2 on December 04, 2015, 01:11:28 pm
I did get it working with some help with Siglent using NI MAX.  I guess I was thinking you could just telnet to an open port and send/receive commands over that, but perhaps it works differently (or is more complicated than that).
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: mr.os on December 04, 2015, 01:50:26 pm
It is LXI. That uses VXI-11 for LAN communication that is using simple RPCs. It is designed to work with IO libraries (HPAK IO, NI MAX, ...).The specs are all freely available.
I'm building a GPIB-to-LXI interface at the moment so I know that VXI is not really complicated. But I think it is the best to use it with the IO libraries.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: gby on December 18, 2015, 08:23:23 pm
Siglent USA just posted on updated FW for the SDG2000x generators.  Pretty good/long list of bugs fixed and a few new features.  Cut and pasted change log below.

2015/11/30 2.01.01.16R2
1. Added phase deviation option in channel tracking mode
2. Optimized the User Interface, including save/recall, arb, etc.
3. Supported long pressing the Output key to switch the load between 50ohm and HiZ
4. Supported to autosave the imported binary file (*.bin).
5. Fixed some bugs
  a) Unexpected change on Phase difference between channels in sweep mode when switching the style between linear and log
  b) Channels not aligned when the frequency of one channel is integral multiple of another
  c) Wrong sweep profile when using manual trigger
  d) Unexpected reset on output when setting illegal parameters
  e) Unstable waveform at the beginning of after enabling the output
  f) Display error when switching between TrueArb and DDS in Arb mode
  g) Frequency deviation display problem in Counter mode
  h) Wrong project name in system information
  i) When pressing the waveform button, the parameter button flashes
  j) Unable to set variable load value without touch screen
  k) Unexpected digit jumping when setting parameters with the knob
  l) Set CH2 to invert and then do a system -> default, the option will return to “normal”, but the signal will stay inverted.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on December 18, 2015, 09:07:15 pm
Siglent USA just posted on updated FW for the SDG2000x generators.  Pretty good/long list of bugs fixed and a few new features.  Cut and pasted change log below.

2015/11/30 2.01.01.16R2
1. Added phase deviation option in channel tracking mode
2. Optimized the User Interface, including save/recall, arb, etc.
3. Supported long pressing the Output key to switch the load between 50ohm and HiZ
4. Supported to autosave the imported binary file (*.bin).
5. Fixed some bugs
  a) Unexpected change on Phase difference between channels in sweep mode when switching the style between linear and log
  b) Channels not aligned when the frequency of one channel is integral multiple of another
  c) Wrong sweep profile when using manual trigger
  d) Unexpected reset on output when setting illegal parameters
  e) Unstable waveform at the beginning of after enabling the output
  f) Display error when switching between TrueArb and DDS in Arb mode
  g) Frequency deviation display problem in Counter mode
  h) Wrong project name in system information
  i) When pressing the waveform button, the parameter button flashes
  j) Unable to set variable load value without touch screen
  k) Unexpected digit jumping when setting parameters with the knob
  l) Set CH2 to invert and then do a system -> default, the option will return to “normal”, but the signal will stay inverted.
WARNING  ;)

You might want to check this new FW does not undo analogNewbie's tweak:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/msg800106/#msg800106 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/msg800106/#msg800106)

Link to this new FW:
http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDG2000X%20Update-16R2.rar (http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDG2000X%20Update-16R2.rar)


Edit
FW link fixed
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: TheSteve on December 18, 2015, 09:18:36 pm
Siglent USA just posted on updated FW for the SDG2000x generators.  Pretty good/long list of bugs fixed and a few new features.  Cut and pasted change log below.

2015/11/30 2.01.01.16R2
1. Added phase deviation option in channel tracking mode
2. Optimized the User Interface, including save/recall, arb, etc.
3. Supported long pressing the Output key to switch the load between 50ohm and HiZ
4. Supported to autosave the imported binary file (*.bin).
5. Fixed some bugs
  a) Unexpected change on Phase difference between channels in sweep mode when switching the style between linear and log
  b) Channels not aligned when the frequency of one channel is integral multiple of another
  c) Wrong sweep profile when using manual trigger
  d) Unexpected reset on output when setting illegal parameters
  e) Unstable waveform at the beginning of after enabling the output
  f) Display error when switching between TrueArb and DDS in Arb mode
  g) Frequency deviation display problem in Counter mode
  h) Wrong project name in system information
  i) When pressing the waveform button, the parameter button flashes
  j) Unable to set variable load value without touch screen
  k) Unexpected digit jumping when setting parameters with the knob
  l) Set CH2 to invert and then do a system -> default, the option will return to “normal”, but the signal will stay inverted.
WARNING  ;)

You might want to check this new FW does not undo analogNewbie's tweak:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/msg800106/#msg800106 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/msg800106/#msg800106)

Link to this new FW:
http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDG2000X (http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDG2000X)

I would think they have closed the door - but if not I am impressed. Being able to hack the lower end model is the only reason I'd consider buying one.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on December 18, 2015, 09:29:27 pm
Siglent USA just posted on updated FW for the SDG2000x generators.  Pretty good/long list of bugs fixed and a few new features.  Cut and pasted change log below.

2015/11/30 2.01.01.16R2
1. Added phase deviation option in channel tracking mode
2. Optimized the User Interface, including save/recall, arb, etc.
3. Supported long pressing the Output key to switch the load between 50ohm and HiZ
4. Supported to autosave the imported binary file (*.bin).
5. Fixed some bugs
  a) Unexpected change on Phase difference between channels in sweep mode when switching the style between linear and log
  b) Channels not aligned when the frequency of one channel is integral multiple of another
  c) Wrong sweep profile when using manual trigger
  d) Unexpected reset on output when setting illegal parameters
  e) Unstable waveform at the beginning of after enabling the output
  f) Display error when switching between TrueArb and DDS in Arb mode
  g) Frequency deviation display problem in Counter mode
  h) Wrong project name in system information
  i) When pressing the waveform button, the parameter button flashes
  j) Unable to set variable load value without touch screen
  k) Unexpected digit jumping when setting parameters with the knob
  l) Set CH2 to invert and then do a system -> default, the option will return to “normal”, but the signal will stay inverted.
WARNING  ;)

You might want to check this new FW does not undo analogNewbie's tweak:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/msg800106/#msg800106 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/msg800106/#msg800106)

Link to this new FW:
http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDG2000X (http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDG2000X)

I would think they have closed the door - but if not I am impressed. Being able to hack the lower end model is the only reason I'd consider buying one.
@ TheSteve
I'm going to get a 2042X in a few weeks as my company demo unit just so I can check this out for you all.  ;)
I plan to do the tweak  ;) and then apply the above FW update and then we'll find out.  >:D
IF the tweak still works I'll install each FW update as they are released and report any undesirable changes here.

Edit
Please Siglent don't send me one with FW 16.R2 installed.
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: TheSteve on December 18, 2015, 10:28:39 pm
@ TheSteve
I'm going to get a 2042X in a few weeks as my company demo unit just so I can check this out for you all.  ;)
I plan to do the tweak  ;) and then apply the above FW update and then we'll find out.  >:D
IF the tweak still works I'll install each FW update as they are released and report any undesirable changes here.

Edit
Please Siglent don't send me one with FW 16.R2 installed.
 :popcorn:

Sounds good - although if they want to stop the hack I suspect they will simply disable telnet access or add a username/password combo instead of worrying about how the licensing actually functions. So while yours may continue to work it may not be possible to hack new units. So after each update please verify if you still have telnet access as well.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on December 18, 2015, 10:51:44 pm
@ TheSteve
I'm going to get a 2042X in a few weeks as my company demo unit just so I can check this out for you all.  ;)
I plan to do the tweak  ;) and then apply the above FW update and then we'll find out.  >:D
IF the tweak still works I'll install each FW update as they are released and report any undesirable changes here.

Edit
Please Siglent don't send me one with FW 16.R2 installed.
 :popcorn:

Sounds good - although if they want to stop the hack I suspect they will simply disable telnet access or add a username/password combo instead of worrying about how the licensing actually functions. So while yours may continue to work it may not be possible to hack new units. So after each update please verify if you still have telnet access as well.
Sure will, that's the plan.
40 MHz is a big step from the demo SDG1010 I have now and as I don't have a personal need for more BW  if my new demo SDG2042X gets locked @ 40MHz I won't really care.


I'll probably be PM'ing some of you to hold my hand while doing this stuff as possibly I'll need some step by step guidance.  :palm:

Point me to some instructable on this, somebody please.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bson on December 19, 2015, 12:09:35 am
Has anyone tried using one of these with an external 10M frequency standard?  I assume that improves frequency accuracy and perhaps stability, but what about firmware?  Is it reliable when using an external reference?  What's the extref input impedance and expected level (AC sine, DC sine, DC square)?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: TheSteve on December 19, 2015, 12:26:07 am
Using a 10 MHz reference should always improve its frequency accuracy - however it will often increase phase noise and/or spurs unless your reference is extremely clean.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: alank2 on December 19, 2015, 03:16:07 am
This firmware release (16R2) is excellent.  They addressed all the bugs I reported to them.  I am impressed.

It now copies BIN files from USB to the internal memory as well so you can build a BIN arbitrary wave as well.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: smgvbest on December 19, 2015, 03:19:01 am
Talkng about external references
I can say I did hook up to my GPSDO and i had every frequency of a basic sine way from 1Hz to 120Mhz spot on.
Now I must say though even without it my SDG2122X was amazingly close.  at 10Mhz I have 10,000,000.045 on read on the HP53131
with the GPSDO of course is was 10000000.003 on the HP53131 using Gerry's 10Mhz oven reference.

At least as far as sine wave accuracy I'm very happy.  more than I need even without the GPSDO hooked up.
I was also happy with the Vrms accuracy a 1Vrms p-p read .99982 on the 34401A set for VAC 6.5Digit Slow. 


Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: rf-loop on December 19, 2015, 07:09:14 am
Siglent USA just posted on updated FW for the SDG2000x generators.  Pretty good/long list of bugs fixed and a few new features.  Cut and pasted change log below.

2015/11/30 2.01.01.16R2
1. Added phase deviation option in channel tracking mode
2. Optimized the User Interface, including save/recall, arb, etc.
3. Supported long pressing the Output key to switch the load between 50ohm and HiZ
4. Supported to autosave the imported binary file (*.bin).
5. Fixed some bugs
  a) Unexpected change on Phase difference between channels in sweep mode when switching the style between linear and log
  b) Channels not aligned when the frequency of one channel is integral multiple of another
  c) Wrong sweep profile when using manual trigger
  d) Unexpected reset on output when setting illegal parameters
  e) Unstable waveform at the beginning of after enabling the output
  f) Display error when switching between TrueArb and DDS in Arb mode
  g) Frequency deviation display problem in Counter mode
  h) Wrong project name in system information
  i) When pressing the waveform button, the parameter button flashes
  j) Unable to set variable load value without touch screen
  k) Unexpected digit jumping when setting parameters with the knob
  l) Set CH2 to invert and then do a system -> default, the option will return to “normal”, but the signal will stay inverted.
WARNING  ;)

You might want to check this new FW does not undo analogNewbie's tweak:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/msg800106/#msg800106 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/msg800106/#msg800106)

Link to this new FW:
http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDG2000X (http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDG2000X)

I would think they have closed the door - but if not I am impressed. Being able to hack the lower end model is the only reason I'd consider buying one.

If they have learned anything about Rigol marketing tricks (originally with first DS1000E perhaps undesigned but today "designed") they do not close..... but perhaps (I will recommend) they randomly do some small changes to this "feature" so that hobbyists are continuing stay wakeup... and then some mysterious knowledge leaks if peoples do not find trick...
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: googolplex1 on December 19, 2015, 09:49:55 am
Siglent USA just posted on updated FW for the SDG2000x generators.  Pretty good/long list of bugs fixed and a few new features.  Cut and pasted change log below.

2015/11/30 2.01.01.16R2
1. Added phase deviation option in channel tracking mode
2. Optimized the User Interface, including save/recall, arb, etc.
3. Supported long pressing the Output key to switch the load between 50ohm and HiZ
4. Supported to autosave the imported binary file (*.bin).
5. Fixed some bugs
  a) Unexpected change on Phase difference between channels in sweep mode when switching the style between linear and log
  b) Channels not aligned when the frequency of one channel is integral multiple of another
  c) Wrong sweep profile when using manual trigger
  d) Unexpected reset on output when setting illegal parameters
  e) Unstable waveform at the beginning of after enabling the output
  f) Display error when switching between TrueArb and DDS in Arb mode
  g) Frequency deviation display problem in Counter mode
  h) Wrong project name in system information
  i) When pressing the waveform button, the parameter button flashes
  j) Unable to set variable load value without touch screen
  k) Unexpected digit jumping when setting parameters with the knob
  l) Set CH2 to invert and then do a system -> default, the option will return to “normal”, but the signal will stay inverted.
WARNING  ;)

You might want to check this new FW does not undo analogNewbie's tweak:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/msg800106/#msg800106 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/msg800106/#msg800106)

Link to this new FW:
http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDG2000X (http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDG2000X)

I would think they have closed the door - but if not I am impressed. Being able to hack the lower end model is the only reason I'd consider buying one.

If they have learned anything about Rigol marketing tricks (originally with first DS1000E perhaps undesigned but today "designed") they do not close..... but perhaps (I will recommend) they randomly do some small changes to this "feature" so that hobbyists are continuing stay wakeup... and then some mysterious knowledge leaks if peoples do not find trick...

I just updated to 16R2 and it hasn't undone the tweak  :D
Telnet acces is still there and analogNewbie's method still works as far as I can tell...
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on December 19, 2015, 10:19:00 am
I just updated to 16R2 and it hasn't undone the tweak  :D
Telnet acces is still there and analogNewbie's method still works as far as I can tell...
Welcome to the forum.

That is good news.  ;)
Of course I'll still get a unit to play with.

Thanks for confirming this.  :-+
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: analogNewbie on December 19, 2015, 11:20:02 am
Don't worry about the firmware update.  You know what I mean. :)
Title: Re: How do I install new firmware?
Post by: tautech on December 19, 2015, 07:55:49 pm
I downloaded the 17DEC2015, v2.01.01.16R2 firmware update.  It downloaded as a .rar file.

I looked in the manual and the only guidance I could find for installing it is a cryptic note in the section on utility functions that the "Firmware Update" function would "Update the firmware by the U-disk".

Does this mean that I should copy the .rar file to a USB flash drive, insert the drive into the signal generator, then invoke the Firmware Update function?
No.

You'll need a .rar unpacker, rar is a type of zipped (compressed) file.
Unpacked there is usually 3 files, the FW update, instructions and a changelog.

To check if your system already has an rar unpacker just double click on the rar FW update file.

A free selection of rar unpackers can be found here:
https://www.google.co.nz/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=rar+file+extractor+free+download+for+windows+7 (https://www.google.co.nz/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=rar+file+extractor+free+download+for+windows+7)

Once you have an unpacker installed just double click on the rar file and the program will unpack the package.

Shift the FW to your USB stick and update your AWG.


Edit
OK Bill you've worked it out.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: smgvbest on December 19, 2015, 10:13:38 pm
note for those who missed it there are 2 update files in the file.
one is a *.ADS file which is the firmware update
the other is a *.CFG file
first pass through I missed this but then read the instructions again
Just in case anyone did the same thing
kinda hope i'm not the only one
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: gby on December 20, 2015, 02:08:06 pm
After doing the update I noticed that some (all) of my settings had changed.  Specifically, right after the 16R2 .ADS download I had the beep for each button push on whereas my setup had been Beep off.  After I downloaded the .CFG file included with the 16R2 update and power cycled I hit the Store/Recall button, selected State File Type, and loaded the .XML state file I had saved many days before this upgrade.  The unit then became unresponsive to all button pushes.  Fortunately a power cycle got me back to normal.

I did store a new .XML state file and did successfully load it back in.

So, I conclude that you should not try to load any .XML State files that were saved with FW before this version. Something in the new FW breaks compatibility with old .XML State files enough to cause the instrument to crash.

I will admit that this is the very first and only time I ever saw the instrument crash so I am not that worried about this.  Just sharing so others don't stumble on the same issue and have a moment of panic.

Edit 1/3/16:  I did report this bug to the Siglent team to fix.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: smgvbest on December 20, 2015, 06:51:06 pm
That's interesting.
I would say if you are so inclined to contact Siglent and let them know of that bug.  They seem to be very responsive so maybe next fix they would have that taken care of.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on December 20, 2015, 08:18:57 pm
That's interesting.
I would say if you are so inclined to contact Siglent and let them know of that bug.  They seem to be very responsive so maybe next fix they would have that taken care of.
I do wonder if user settings would be best saved before a FW update for any brand of equipment.  :-\

Although they've probably seen analogNewbie's tweak, I wouldn't point them directly to this thread.
No point rubbing their nose in it.  ;)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: smgvbest on December 20, 2015, 09:11:08 pm
I do wonder if user settings would be best saved before a FW update for any brand of equipment.  :-\

Although they've probably seen analogNewbie's tweak, I wouldn't point them directly to this thread.
No point rubbing their nose in it.  ;)
As I read the comment it was a bug restoring saved settings after a firmware update that froze the SDG,and to contact Siglent directly to report a bug.  Not rubbing anyones nose, just suggesting a ligament bug be reported.   Unless I read the bug wrong???
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on December 20, 2015, 09:18:55 pm
I do wonder if user settings would be best saved before a FW update for any brand of equipment.  :-\

Although they've probably seen analogNewbie's tweak, I wouldn't point them directly to this thread.
No point rubbing their nose in it.  ;)
As I read the comment it was a bug restoring saved settings after a firmware update that froze the SDG,and to contact Siglent directly to report a bug.  Not rubbing anyones nose, just suggesting a ligament bug be reported.   Unless I read the bug wrong???
Not at all smgvbest.

We'll report it but purposely not point to this thread.   ;)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: smgvbest on December 20, 2015, 10:33:29 pm
smgvbest.

We'll report it but purposely not point to this thread.   ;)

I'm with you now ;)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Samogon on December 22, 2015, 09:23:40 pm
first you should run a tftp server on pc. (tftp32.exe)
you can use these cmds to upload and download files:
tftp -l localfilename -p  192.168.1.123 
tftp -r remotefilename -g 192.168.1.123

/ # tftp
BusyBox v1.13.2 (2012-04-08 17:28:57 CDT) multi-call binary

Usage: tftp [OPTION]... HOST [PORT]

Transfer a file from/to tftp server

Options:
        -l FILE Local FILE
        -r FILE Remote FILE
        -g      Get file
        -p      Put file


In the future, Siglent might block the telnet interface. So everything is at you own risk. Good luck.

BTW it has tftpd server installed, so you can start it as foreground service
Code: [Select]
udpsvd -vE 0.0.0.0 69 tftpd or tweak it as inetd service.
Skipping linuxoinds here :) If you have win vista and later you can enable feature tftp client in control panel and transfer files back and force to make backups, etc
OS aslo have VI editor installed so you can edit files on the box.
And i have my SDG2042X now SDG2122X :) Siglent did it on purpose.  :-+
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: artelse on December 24, 2015, 06:52:48 pm
The link to the 16R2 firmware update was dead. Here is a working one:

http://www.siglentamerica.com/prodcut-gjjrj.aspx?id=1364&tid=16&T=2 (http://www.siglentamerica.com/prodcut-gjjrj.aspx?id=1364&tid=16&T=2)

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: nugglix on December 25, 2015, 01:41:45 pm
Hi Ho!

Seems that the frequency counter leaks a 10 MHz signal to it's input.

I was looking at a spectrum and noticed a 10 MHz signal where none should be.
See attached screen-dumps.

Oscilloscope is attached to a 2 winding coil attached to the inductor of the local oscillator.
In parallel the probes of the counter.
Oscilloscope set to HighZ using a 10x probe.

When I switch the circuit off the 10 MHz signal persists.
When I remove the probes of the counter the 10 MHz signal is gone.

Can someone please
  a) confirm that
or
  b) tell me that I measured bullshit   ;)

Center frequency in the following pictures is 10.7 MHz.

Cheers
  Guido
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: kado on December 27, 2015, 04:28:19 pm
Hi all,

need help:

after poking around with Telnet on my SDG2042X i have lost this file:

/usr/bin/siglent/config/NSP_config_upgrade_info.xml  that means my file now has only 64 Bytes until 253 before!

Could somebody mail me this file from his/her device?

Any help is apreciated.

thanks,
Karsten
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: analogNewbie on December 28, 2015, 02:43:01 am
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<nsp_upgrade_info_root>
   <device>
      <upgrade_static_id>10600</upgrade_static_id>
      <upgrade_start_id>10600</upgrade_start_id>
      <upgrade_end_id>10700</upgrade_end_id>
   </device>
</nsp_upgrade_info_root>   
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: billfernandez on December 28, 2015, 04:10:47 am
Seems that the frequency counter leaks a 10 MHz signal to it's input.

You seem to be correct.  I connected the signal generator's counter input directly to the input of my scope with a BNC cable and took the two screen shots below.  It looks like a 10MHz sinewave riding atop a 100MHz sinewave.

Then I added a 50Ohm shunt at the scope's input and took the third screen shot, which shows only a 10MHz anomaly.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: nugglix on December 28, 2015, 09:45:18 am
Hi!

Seems that the frequency counter leaks a 10 MHz signal to it's input.

You seem to be correct.  I connected the signal generator's counter input directly to the input of my scope with a BNC cable and took the two screen shots below.  It looks like a 10MHz sinewave riding atop a 100MHz sinewave.

Thanks for testing.

Looks like we've another entry for the bug list.

Cheers
  Guido
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: jackenhack on December 28, 2015, 09:53:03 am
Talkng about external references
I can say I did hook up to my GPSDO and i had every frequency of a basic sine way from 1Hz to 120Mhz spot on.
Now I must say though even without it my SDG2122X was amazingly close.  at 10Mhz I have 10,000,000.045 on read on the HP53131
with the GPSDO of course is was 10000000.003 on the HP53131 using Gerry's 10Mhz oven reference.

At least as far as sine wave accuracy I'm very happy.  more than I need even without the GPSDO hooked up.
I was also happy with the Vrms accuracy a 1Vrms p-p read .99982 on the 34401A set for VAC 6.5Digit Slow.

Yep, did the same thing. Hooked up my Trimble GPSDO and it's spot on. Very impressed with it's performance without a reference. Mine was 2.1 Hz out at 10MHz and was very stable. I do did get a slightly more jittery signal out at higher frequencies, but that went away when I used a good quality 50 ohm terminator.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: dougg on December 28, 2015, 08:34:11 pm
Hi Ho!

Seems that the frequency counter leaks a 10 MHz signal to it's input.

I was looking at a spectrum and noticed a 10 MHz signal where none should be.
See attached screen-dumps.


I used my SDG2kX to generate a 100 MHz sine wave at 100 mV rms into 50 ohms. In the first attachment
that is fed into a DSA815 and only shows a harmonic at 200 MHz. In the second attachment I placed
a T attachment on the output of the SDG2kX and fed one side to the DSA815 and the other side back
to the counter on the SDG2kX (its on the back). Wow, look at all those remnants.

The log scale for frequencies (x axis) shows just how much is being generated. It seems as
though the counter is acting as a mixer of its internal 10 MHz reference and the 100 MHz being
generated by the SDG2kX. If I zoom in one of those peak frequencies, then they are pretty well exact
multiples of 10 and/or 100 MHz.


BTW the SDG2kX counter correctly reported 100 MHz as the frequency. Reporting the "frequency
deviation" as 900,000 ppm seems a bit strange, as though Siglent assume  the counter will only
be used to measure 10 MHz from another source (e.g. the DSA815 has a 10 MHz out and it
showed ~ 0.1 ppm .)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: nugglix on December 29, 2015, 10:00:39 am
Hi!

I used my SDG2kX to generate a 100 MHz sine wave at 100 mV rms into 50 ohms. In the first attachment
that is fed into a DSA815 and only shows a harmonic at 200 MHz. In the second attachment I placed
a T attachment on the output of the SDG2kX and fed one side to the DSA815 and the other side back
to the counter on the SDG2kX (its on the back). Wow, look at all those remnants.

Thanks for the confirmation.

So Siglent gave us a real signal generator, signals out of every opening...
I think that's the price we pay for the price. :)

BTW the SDG2kX counter correctly reported 100 MHz as the frequency. Reporting the "frequency
deviation" as 900,000 ppm seems a bit strange, as though Siglent assume  the counter will only
be used to measure 10 MHz from another source (e.g. the DSA815 has a 10 MHz out and it
showed ~ 0.1 ppm .)

Did you notice that the reference frequency can be adjusted?
I used it to check the stability of an oscillator. Dialed in the target frequency and watched the
deviation move around. So it's not only for 10 MHz ;)

Thanks again for the test. I don't have a SA (yet!).

Cheers
  Guido
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: alank2 on December 29, 2015, 01:30:09 pm
I've asked Siglent for statistics in the frequency counter (min, max, avg) and/or longer gate times and they said they would release it in a newer firmware at some point as well.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Siglent America on December 30, 2015, 02:53:38 pm
"Seems that the frequency counter leaks a 10 MHz signal to it's input."

We did identify a cross-talk issue that is causing this leakage to the frequency counter port. The factory tells me they are working on the problem.

Thanks for your comments.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: nugglix on December 30, 2015, 07:39:33 pm
We did identify a cross-talk issue that is causing this leakage to the frequency counter port. The factory tells me they are working on the problem.

Thanks for the info.

Would the usage of an external 10 MHz clock would avoid this issue?
Just to have a workaround.

Thanks again for the fast response!

Cheers
  Guido
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Siglent America on December 30, 2015, 09:31:58 pm
Would the usage of an external 10 MHz clock would avoid this issue?

Hi Guido.

I'm not sure but it couldn't hurt anything to try it. 
Of course, the counter still functions but if the clock leakage is interfering with your circuit-under-test then that doesn't help you at this point, I know.

Regards,
Steve
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: gby on January 03, 2016, 10:20:57 pm
DDS AWG Square Rise Time 2x Faster Than Built In Square Rise Time

I was working with an arbitrary waveform that has 10 cycles per period so that I could try higher output square wave frequencies on my SDG2042X generator.  In looking at the Arbitrary Wave square output I note that the rise time is much faster than when using the built in Square wave shape.  See the attached scope captures.

Test setup is generator direct to scope with 50 Ohm BNC cable with the scope set to 50 Ohm termination.  The scope is an old (circa 1992) Tek TDS-420A which is specified with 200 MHz/1.75 nSec rise time bandwidth.  So, these measurements are a little slow compared to actual.

The first one shows the built in square wave at 10 MHz.  Measured rise time is just under 9 nSec.  Using RSS to remove the scope 1.75 nSec risetime and the actual is probably more like 8.7 nSec.  My memory of testing with a different 1 GHz bandwidth scope was more like 8.4 nSec.  All good and as expected.  The instrument's data sheet lists 9 nSec max which matches well.

The second scope picture shows the arbitrary square wave shape running in DDS Arb Mode at the same 10 MHz.  Now the rise time is 4.6 nSec and again using RSS to remove the scope 1.75 nSec rise the actual is probably 4.3 nSec or about 2x faster.  Also note this waveform has a little ringing and slight undershoot before settling.

The third scope picture shows the arbitrary square wave shape running in TrueArb Arb Mode at 1.5 MHz.  Now the rise time is 8.8 nSec and again using RSS to remove the scope 1.75 nSec rise the actual is probably 8.6 nSec.  Also note this waveform has no ringing and settles in fine like the built in square.  I would say it is the same as the built in square mode except it is consistently slightly faster (8.8 for True Arb versus 9.0 for built in square).

My theory on why these results are different is that the 300 MHz update A/D 4x linear interpolator is turned on for the built in square and TrueArb modes but is not turned on for the DDS arbitrary wave.  With 4x linear interpolation the DAC output will have a linear slope with duration of 4/1.2GHz = 1/300MHz = 3.33 nSec while without the linear interpolation method turned on the DAC will try to output a step at the edge.

The output of the DAC is followed by a high order filter.  With a 3.33 nSec linear slope at the edge the output looks good with no ringing.  With a perfect step you can better see the dynamics of the filter.

Unfortunately I can not explain why the built in square and the TrueArb square are not exactly identical.  Perhaps the lower frequency of the TrueArb measurement?

The net, net of this observation is that the usable upper frequency for DDS arbitrary square waveforms is higher than for the built in one by about 2x in frequency. 

In my opinion the DAC interpolator should be on for arbitrary waves like it is for built in waves.  However, for the TrueArb and for built in square modes I would have thought it would be best to be off.  Perhaps better yet, the instrument should have a setting to turn the DAC linear interpolation mode on and off??

What do others think??

Siglent, can you help explain this behavior?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Hagrid on January 06, 2016, 01:14:33 am
Hello, I got my SDG2042X today and really like it. Although the most stuff is self explaining I have some questions.
Using the EasyWave software I created a some waveforms to play around. Loading them to the signal generator almost without problems. But I can't delete waveforms once I saved them (solved: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/msg838169/#msg838169 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/msg838169/#msg838169)). I went into "Stored Waveforms", put the cursor on a waveform and pushed the delete button. I tells me that the file is deleted, but is still there and can be loaded. Am I doing something wrong?
The other part is about testing the device. I have a 20Mhz Hameg oscilloscope which I really like too. It is okay for the most stuff I am working on. However it is not really usefull if I want to test the signal generator completely. The risetime of my scope is 17.5ns. Is there any way for me to test how good my new signal generator meets it specs? An idea of mine was to connect a ceramic cap after a 1k resistor and a germanium diode to test the Voltage. I set the generator to 40MHz Sine and 4V(High). Using a multimeter to measure the voltage across the cap I measure 2.87V. I guess this method isn't really representetive is it?
The second method I tried was to use the internal counter of the SDG2042X. The datasheet says it is useable from 100/200mVrms.
I generated a sin(5*x) waveform in EasyWave to get a frequency of up to 100Mhz in arb (DDS) mode. At 100MHz the readings started to getting bad below 87mVpp. At 15MHz the readings of the counter do have the same quality at about 74mVpp. At 250kHz it is about 65mVpp. So it seems that the bandwith of the generator is fine :). What do you think of my methods to check the bandwith and can someone help me getting rid of the saved waveforms I can't delete?

Greetings, Hagrid
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: billfernandez on January 06, 2016, 03:18:24 am
...I can't delete waveforms once I saved them. I went into "Stored Waveforms", put the cursor on a waveform and pushed the delete button. I tells me that the file is deleted, but is still there and can be loaded. Am I doing something wrong?

Hagrid:  Deleting works for me so I'm not sure what to say.  I press the STORE/RECALL button, select a file, press DELETE, then after the warning notice is shown I press ACCEPT.  Is that what you're doing?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: billfernandez on January 06, 2016, 03:28:54 am
...s there any way for me to test how good my new signal generator meets it specs?

Generally you have to have better equipment than the device you are testing, and your equipment has to be calibrated, to be able to see if a device meets its specs.

An idea of mine was to connect a ceramic cap after a 1k resistor and a germanium diode to test the Voltage. I set the generator to 40MHz Sine and 4V(High). Using a multimeter to measure the voltage across the cap I measure 2.87V. I guess this method isn't really representetive is it?

By "4V(High)" I assume you mean that the generator was set to output "4Vpp" into a "High Impedance".  If your 1K resistor is enough to put it into the range that Siglent considers "high" impedance, and if your test setup behaves well at 40MHz, then I would expect an accurate DMM to read about 2.83VDC (4 divided by 2 times .707).

Oh, but wait, that doesn't make sense.  Since the capacitor can only charge and there's no discharge path, then it would build up to the peak voltage minus the forward voltage drop of the diode.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on January 06, 2016, 04:37:13 am
Hello, I got my SDG2042X today and really like it. Although the most stuff is self explaining I have some questions.

 I have a 20Mhz Hameg oscilloscope which I really like too. It is okay for the most stuff I am working on. However it is not really usefull if I want to test the signal generator completely. The risetime of my scope is 17.5ns. Is there any way for me to test how good my new signal generator meets it specs?
Did it not come with an official Cal cert?
What's the problem, do you not trust it meets advertised specs?

Know that it will and enjoy.  ;)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Hagrid on January 06, 2016, 12:55:07 pm
Hagrid:  Deleting works for me so I'm not sure what to say.  I press the STORE/RECALL button, select a file, press DELETE, then after the warning notice is shown I press ACCEPT.  Is that what you're doing?

(solved: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/msg838169/#msg838169 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/msg838169/#msg838169))

This doesn't work for me either. The first way I tried it:
Parameter-->Arb Type-->Stored Waveforms--> Trying to delete a file -->No success.
The way you told me:
Store Racall-->Trying to delete a file --> No success.

They are all saved under Local(C:). All selftests are completely OK.
The waveforms are still displayed. I restarted the unit after deleting them and still see them in the list and can load them.
I tried to delete a file from a connected flash drive. This does not work either. I made a video and uploadet it.
Here is the link: http://cloud.directupload.net/4Cqx (http://cloud.directupload.net/4Cqx)

@billfernandez: No I mean a 8Vpp Signal so the high value is 4V.
@tautech: Yes I came with a certificate but I really like to test stuff myself if I can. I trust them too. However I love to search for bugs in calculators or see how far I can push some things  ;D.

Greetings, Hagrid
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: billfernandez on January 06, 2016, 11:17:02 pm
Hagrid:  It looks like you follow exactly the same steps I do to delete a stored waveform.  I wonder why it works for me and not for you.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: CustomEngineerer on January 07, 2016, 03:17:58 am
The first time I tried to delete a stored waveform the same thing happened to me. I tried again a little later and it worked. I don't remember exactly what I did different but I don't seem to have a problem deleting them anymore. Maybe make sure you aren't actively using the waveform before you try to delete it, change the waveform to one of the standard built in ones (sin or square or something else). Or when you get to the window to delete it, try to click on something else (using the multiturn knob) and then select the waveform again and delete it. Just tried again and didn't make a difference, it deletes them everytime for me regardless of what I try. Sorry. I do know that I was initially having problems with the first arb waveform I sent to the scope using EasyWave. I couldn't get it to display correctly so I kept try to change the waveform in EasyWave and then resending to the SDG2042X with the same file name. When I would view it on my scope it would look like a couple of different waveforms combined, but none of the ones I had tried to create. I was about to give up on easy wave and so I tried a different name for the waveform file and ever since then it has worked fine. I've also been able to delete them since. I have no idea what caused this behavior.

Edit: Strike through bogus suggestions and added extra info after.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Hagrid on January 07, 2016, 06:36:32 am
(solved: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/msg838169/#msg838169 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/msg838169/#msg838169))
Hello again, I tried it now again. I can delete files but only some. If a waveform is called "wave3" I can delete it without any problems.
"Sin(3x)_10kp" for example can not be deleted. If I import another waveform with the same name it gets overwritten. Why is it impossible to delete files if they have some special names? This is strange.

Greetings Hagrid
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: CustomEngineerer on January 07, 2016, 06:47:53 am
When I initially had troubles deleting the file it was named "wave1". But again, its no longer a problem. I can now delete it regardless of the name. I have used a bunch of different names, from "wave[12345]" to names describing what the waveform is, and its not a problem to delete them anymore.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Salas on January 07, 2016, 08:56:24 am
I got one too. Well loaded with functions and performance for the price but It could have a quieter fan. I kinda miss my previous Instek ARB gen for noiseless and straightforward operation but this one has more stuff and modes to offer so its OK. I wonder if it will bring more noise when extended to 120MHZ like scopes with wider bandwidth do? I also saw the 120 MHZ sine signal kinda crooked on Dave's video. I see that the 40MHz sine fidelity is fine in my test though. So are there performance trade offs in extending to the full bandwidth option?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on January 07, 2016, 09:09:28 am
I got one too. Well loaded with functions and performance for the price but It could have a quieter fan. I kinda miss my previous Instek ARB gen for noiseless and straightforward operation but this one has more stuff and modes to offer so its OK. I wonder if it will bring more noise when extended to 120MHZ like scopes with wider bandwidth do? I also saw the 120 MHZ sine signal kinda crooked on Dave's video. I see that the 40MHz sine fidelity is fine in my test though. So are there performance trade offs in extending to the full bandwidth option?
That's a nice waveform considering it's 9V p-p @ 40 MHz.
Often attempting to produce a large amplitude HF waveform with an AWG will affect waveform fidelity. If you look at various HF waveforms posted on EEVblog you'll notice the p-p settings set quite low for this reason.
As the HW in the SDG2kX range is all the same AFAIK there should be no difference in operation if you decide to improve it.  ;)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Salas on January 07, 2016, 09:56:16 am
~10V p-p actually 8) OK lets lobby for Noctua replacement fans now ;)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: rf-loop on January 07, 2016, 12:07:20 pm
I got one too. Well loaded with functions and performance for the price but It could have a quieter fan. I kinda miss my previous Instek ARB gen for noiseless and straightforward operation but this one has more stuff and modes to offer so its OK. I wonder if it will bring more noise when extended to 120MHZ like scopes with wider bandwidth do? I also saw the 120 MHZ sine signal kinda crooked on Dave's video. I see that the 40MHz sine fidelity is fine in my test though. So are there performance trade offs in extending to the full bandwidth option?

Why there is oscilloscope  BW rejection ON in this image, or what is this "B" meaning? 

What is signal true level?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on January 07, 2016, 12:12:51 pm
I got one too. Well loaded with functions and performance for the price but It could have a quieter fan. I kinda miss my previous Instek ARB gen for noiseless and straightforward operation but this one has more stuff and modes to offer so its OK. I wonder if it will bring more noise when extended to 120MHZ like scopes with wider bandwidth do? I also saw the 120 MHZ sine signal kinda crooked on Dave's video. I see that the 40MHz sine fidelity is fine in my test though. So are there performance trade offs in extending to the full bandwidth option?

Why there is 20MHz BW rejection ON in this image? 

What is signal true level?
:-DD
Nothing wrong with rf-loop's eyes, but mine  :palm: I missed that.  |O
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Hagrid on January 07, 2016, 01:19:00 pm
(Solved: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/msg838169/#msg838169 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/msg838169/#msg838169))
Hello, I have some more information about the deleting problem.
I have tested some file names.
Not recognized symbols: öäü§²³°€~´

"wave[3]": Can be deleted takes a while, like a file with a regular name. My file was about 64kB in size. The SDG2042X told me it was deleted. After the message I pulled the flash drive out, but the file was still on the flash drive. I tried it another time and noticed my flash drive blinking about 3 seconds after the message. I pulled it out after the blinking and the file was deleted. A 22MB big file behaved the same so no problem here.
"wave{3}": Same as "wave[3]".
"wave_3" : Same as "wave[3]".

Filenames containing: "`'&#()-_;@" could NOT be ereased on my device.

I have loaded some waveforms containing these symbols before I knew I could not erase them. So what am I supposed to do now?
I have written them a PM, hopefully I get an answer and we get a fix  ;D.

Greetings, Hagrid
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Salas on January 07, 2016, 04:23:56 pm
I got one too. Well loaded with functions and performance for the price but It could have a quieter fan. I kinda miss my previous Instek ARB gen for noiseless and straightforward operation but this one has more stuff and modes to offer so its OK. I wonder if it will bring more noise when extended to 120MHZ like scopes with wider bandwidth do? I also saw the 120 MHZ sine signal kinda crooked on Dave's video. I see that the 40MHz sine fidelity is fine in my test though. So are there performance trade offs in extending to the full bandwidth option?

Why there is oscilloscope  BW rejection ON in this image, or what is this "B" meaning? 

What is signal true level?

I had forgotten the 100MHZ limit on the 200MHZ scope on. The level displayed is true (LMR-195 coax, scope input ratio X1, HiZ).
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Salas on January 07, 2016, 04:31:53 pm
Here I run it again with all the parameters showing :)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: rf-loop on January 08, 2016, 10:00:26 am
Here I run it again with all the parameters showing :)

As you told there B can be 20MHz or 100MHz BW rej so in 100MHz position all ok.



-------------------------
Not just for you  but also common sidenote:

Even with as low as 40MHz "nearly DC" impedance matching is still important for quality mesurements.

Here in  connect signal from 50ohm source impedance  using 50ohm coaxial and connect it to oscilloscope 1Mohm input.
Result is perhaps between garbage to nearly right but without more checks you do not know how much there is error with oscilloscope displayed level.  It is sure in this case error is not big but this source of errors need keep in mind.



Here very simplified example where I do not make "show" where I set this test for maximal error.

There is two enough indentical cables but lenght 60cm and 120cm, in this case (not China Export junk cables) good quality RG58 test cables and of course with Suhner connectors. (note: type RG58 cable, even if it is best quality, is total junk for real high grade lab works other than DC - audio)

Test
Source 50ohm and level passed for 6Vpp on the output connector if load is 50ohm and also set for 6Vpp when there is no load.

Images 1 and 2.
oscilloscope input 50ohm.

1. Connected using 60cm cable.
2. Connected using 120cm cable.

Level do not change much

images 3 and 4
oscilloscope input 1Mohm

3. 60cm 
4. 120cm
(and images are in right order!)

Level change  enough for show that cable lenght is markable error source when there is high level error with impedance match. Even with low 40MHz freq.
 
Who knows now what is level with 40cm or 100cm cable... or 150cm cable, or if sstill keep 50ohm cable but cable type change.
(btw, in free air 40MHz wavelenght is ~7,5m and in cable it is less, perhaps something like ~5m)
 
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Hagrid on January 08, 2016, 01:00:02 pm
Hello again, I managed to get rid of those evil, undeleteable waveforms. So if somebody has the same problem like me he might be interested in the solution.
There has already be mentioned early in this thread the ability to connect to the device via telnet. That is what I did. after some searching I found the location where the waveforms are stored: "usr/bin/siglent/usr/usr".
Unfortunetally I wasn't able to delete a single file because they contained symbols which result in a syntax error if I typed in their name in the command.
So I deleted the last "usr" directory, in my case there were only the waveforms I wanted to delete. In "usr/bin/siglent/usr" are some files which I don't want to touch. I think it is not such a good idea to delete random files ;). I created a new empty usr directory so the path "usr/bin/siglent/usr/usr" is complete now again. After a look on the device I was confirmed that the files were gone, yey.

If somebody tries this please make sure you don't delete the whole usr directory. I bet this would be quite a desaster. Please make sure that "/usr/bin/siglent/usr/usr only containes the waveforms you want to delete. I don't know if this location will stay the same if Siglent release an update some day.
You do this at you own risk, don't poke the wrong files.
I hope they keep the telnet open. Looks like it can be sometimes really handy.

Greetings, Hagrid
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Salas on January 08, 2016, 01:39:51 pm
@ rf-loop

Thanks for the side note. I was only after a visual signal shape fidelity check at max output frequency & amplitude though.

I run some AF FFT by the way. Not bad for a general purpose gen. 1V RMS and 0.3VRMS. Channel 2 is doing better in my unit.

A full spectrum flatness spec confirmation test remains to be done by someone with calibrated wide bandwidth equipment.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: fitch on January 15, 2016, 12:41:19 pm
Just curious, using analogNewbie's hack, is there a way to restore the original serial number?

Thanks.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: mojoe on January 15, 2016, 07:34:34 pm
I was disappointed to read that this series only goes up to 25 MHz for square waves. I need 30 MHz. Can the arb function be used to generate a 30 MHz square wave?

Are there any similar products from other vendors that will do 30 MHz square waves?

Also, to the person who said that the arb function can be used to generate sine waves beyond the normal top frequency, please elaborate. I don't have one of these yet, so I'm not up on using an arb function.

Thanks.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: billfernandez on January 18, 2016, 05:11:27 am
Just curious, using analogNewbie's hack, is there a way to restore the original serial number?

I haven't done the hack, but his hack is simply to remove a file (which you should make a backup of before removing).  When the generator detects that the file is missing it will recreate a generic version without your password.  I expect that if you were to delete the auto-generated file, and replace it with the file you backed up, that the generator would have its password restored (since it's coded into the file). 
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: JohnG on January 22, 2016, 02:39:18 pm
I can add a few comments regarding the performance of this generators, some positives and some bugs (big ones for me :-\). My background for the last several years is as a power electronics engineer, first for a couple big companies, and now a small one for the last year or so. For the latter, I have been getting by with an old HP6012, but having pulse width change over time and from day to day has been a big problem, and sometimes I need signals for modulation, to test startup, transient behavior, etc., but a high-end ARB/pulse gen has been out of reach. The big problem with most of the budget ones has been pulse jitter that basic makes them unusable, along with limited duty cycle range. I'm happy to say that the SDG2042X meets these needs for me and I have been happy with that.

A very nice feature for me is the dual output, with the ability to delay or phase shift one pulse with respect to another. Many power converters have two switches that must be operated roughly out of phase with each other, but often with some small but important deadtime where both are off, or overlap time where both are on. It looks like the 2042X can do this, but...

There is are some show-stopper bugs for me in the synchronization of the two outputs during enabling of outputs, and during changing of pulse widths, and perhaps more. I did not dig deeper, since I get paid for other things, and I need to get paid.

Bug 1: With a pulse output on both channels, and channel 2 delayed with respect to channel 1, if you enable channel 1, then channel 2, the waveform initially looks good. However, a fast scope shows that when channel 2 is enabled, there is actually a small glitch where there is no delay. If these are controlling two switches in a half-bridge power converter, during the glitch you are shorting the power bus with your transistors. Not good. Hopefully this shows up in the first attachment, where I have the scope on infinite persistence. If you look closely, you can see the bright traces, and the faint trace. The bright trace shows a double trace in channel 2, and this is not jitter. This only happens as you enable channel 2. If you look more closely, you can see a faint green trace where channel 2 is not delayed. This only happens for a brief period after enabling channel 2.


Bug 2: If you adjust the delay setting on the fly, the same thing happens as with Bug 1. I spent some more time with triggering to try and capture this, in the second attachment. I start with channel 2 delayed from channel 1 by 10ns, and I have the scope set to trigger if the delay becomes longer than 15 ns. The top trace shows several ms of capture, and the bottom trace shows a zoomed in view prior to the trigger. When the delay is set to 10ns, the scope is not triggering, and then I change the delay to 20 ns, which causes the scope to trigger.

If you look at the zoomed-in waveform, before about -2.5454 ms, the delay is about 10 ns, as set. After this, the delay goes to zero, and stays that way for over 2 ms, with one dropout along the way. Finally, at t=0, the delay hits 20 ns as desired.

This basically means that the dual pulse output is of very limited use for me. 2 ms of the wrong setting will easily fry a couple of small power transistors (GaN power FETs in my case) when they are shorting a power bus. I really hope this can be fixed in a firmware update, and I've seen that Siglent hangs around here, so I hope they are looking.

I'm still keeping the generator. It meets or exceeds all my other needs. I just really wanted to be able to use the two channels for driving a power half-bridge without needing a bunch of other stuff to synchronize every thing. I will note that the Rigol 4162 that I got at my old job also could not do this properly, and it had so much jitter as to be much less useful.

John
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: alank2 on January 22, 2016, 03:56:52 pm
Reports these bugs to Steve @ Siglent and he will get them on the bug list to get fixed.  They have fixed many bugs that I reported.  PM me if you want his email address.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on January 22, 2016, 06:54:50 pm
Reports these bugs to Steve @ Siglent and he will get them on the bug list to get fixed.  They have fixed many bugs that I reported.  PM me if you want his email address.
Yes, Steve should see this, but he's in China ATM so I'll point Tech support to JohnG's post also.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: JohnG on January 22, 2016, 06:57:52 pm
Thanks, I did email Steve with the info as well.

John
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on January 22, 2016, 07:08:23 pm
Thanks, I did email Steve with the info as well.

John
Welcome to the forum and thanks for providing feedback.

Of course it's now the weekend in China so it'll take a couple of days to get a response.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: markone on January 23, 2016, 02:32:45 am
-snip

Bug 1: With a pulse output on both channels, and channel 2 delayed with respect to channel 1, if you enable channel 1, then channel 2, the waveform initially looks good. However, a fast scope shows that when channel 2 is enabled, there is actually a small glitch where there is no delay. If these are controlling two switches in a half-bridge power converter, during the glitch you are shorting the power bus with your transistors. Not good. Hopefully this shows up in the first attachment, where I have the scope on infinite persistence. If you look closely, you can see the bright traces, and the faint trace. The bright trace shows a double trace in channel 2, and this is not jitter. This only happens as you enable channel 2. If you look more closely, you can see a faint green trace where channel 2 is not delayed. This only happens for a brief period after enabling channel 2.


Bug 2: If you adjust the delay setting on the fly, the same thing happens as with Bug 1. I spent some more time with triggering to try and capture this, in the second attachment. I start with channel 2 delayed from channel 1 by 10ns, and I have the scope set to trigger if the delay becomes longer than 15 ns. The top trace shows several ms of capture, and the bottom trace shows a zoomed in view prior to the trigger. When the delay is set to 10ns, the scope is not triggering, and then I change the delay to 20 ns, which causes the scope to trigger.

Good to know, i have some questions about :

-have you also noticed pulse width+ distorsion during parameters change ?
-have you operated the generator by hand on UI panel or by remote interface ?
-are you using the last available FW version ?

In the past i developed a fast prototyping system for induction heating cooktoop (a module with 2 channel, 7KW total power), based on fpga system where i was driving two half bridge drivers (couple of 80A/600V IGBTs each with IC floating gate drivers), but honestly i never dared two go straight to drive them, at logic level of course, with a pulse generator, even if the system was HW protected for cross conduction events / output overcurrent by mean of "leg" current sensors / ultrafast comparators and latched inhibition logic, for the simple reason that is too risky also to play on the fly by hand with parameters, considering that also a missed conduction cycle is a serious problem on that kind of application (the load is a resonant circuit).

I assume that you are working with a low power / low voltage system and you do not strictly need such kind of subsidiary protection systems, but if this kind of work is a recurrent activity then would be nice to develop a dedicated driving system to preserve your circuit & your safety.

I haven't yet studied the instrument control interface command set at all (... but i will have to do soon), maybe there are instructions to apply pulse width, delay, phase changes in a syncronous way on both channels without glitch, with a proper sequencing, that of course has to be put in place by am external program.

It could be a workaround viable during the wait for the firmware fix, since in the meantime i will not hold my breath ;-)

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: nctnico on January 23, 2016, 02:34:41 am
Not SDG2000 specific but I also noticed the SDG1000 series does not do very clean startups of waveforms!
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: JohnG on January 23, 2016, 07:40:23 pm

Good to know, i have some questions about :

-have you also noticed pulse width+ distorsion during parameters change ?
-have you operated the generator by hand on UI panel or by remote interface ?
-are you using the last available FW version ?

In the past i developed a fast prototyping system for induction heating cooktoop (a module with 2 channel, 7KW total power), based on fpga system where i was driving two half bridge drivers (couple of 80A/600V IGBTs each with IC floating gate drivers), but honestly i never dared two go straight to drive them, at logic level of course, with a pulse generator, even if the system was HW protected for cross conduction events / output overcurrent by mean of "leg" current sensors / ultrafast comparators and latched inhibition logic, for the simple reason that is too risky also to play on the fly by hand with parameters, considering that also a missed conduction cycle is a serious problem on that kind of application (the load is a resonant circuit).

I assume that you are working with a low power / low voltage system and you do not strictly need such kind of subsidiary protection systems, but if this kind of work is a recurrent activity then would be nice to develop a dedicated driving system to preserve your circuit & your safety.

I haven't yet studied the instrument control interface command set at all (... but i will have to do soon), maybe there are instructions to apply pulse width, delay, phase changes in a syncronous way on both channels without glitch, with a proper sequencing, that of course has to be put in place by am external program.

It could be a workaround viable during the wait for the firmware fix, since in the meantime i will not hold my breath ;-)

I am using the latest firmware. I was changing the pulse delay parameter for channel 2 on the fly, using the knob.

I understand the risks you are talking about. Unfortunately, I don't have the bandwidth to learn FPGA programming, and most of my concerns are with simple looking circuits, voltages <200V (with a few exceptions), but with extremely fast switching. By that, I mean switching 10s of volts and 10s of amps in a few ns, or possibly in less than 1ns. I'm more concerned about basic power stage performance with new power FETs. For this kind of application, being able to use a dual channel generator would save a lot of time, if I can rely on the synchronization under my test conditions. I will note that I have seen very sophisticated and supposedly bulletproof controls and drivers still manage to turn on two transistors on simultaneously, but never for very long  :palm:.

I did work on an induction cooker in a past life. We were evaluating the possibility of one that would work with aluminum or copper pots. As it turns out, it is possible. Maybe not cost effective, though.

John
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: markone on January 23, 2016, 08:55:18 pm

I did work on an induction cooker in a past life. We were evaluating the possibility of one that would work with aluminum or copper pots. As it turns out, it is possible. Maybe not cost effective, though.

John

Yep,  "all metal" induction heating cooktops are reality from many years, HW wise its matter to work up to 100Khz instead of 50Khz plus some tricks on hob coil design, anyway they are a lot expensive without any good reason, so are quite rare on home appliance market.

If you are not familiar with FPGA design, you can still develop a dedicated PWM generator with a microcontroller evaluation board with USB interface and advanced pwm generator like microchip dsPIC33E (or similar), once properly programmed they are quite robust.

Returning on topic, depending on how phase linked channels mechanism is implemented on our 2042x, it could be not so simple for siglent to fix the bug to comply this specific need, but i would bet that this is not the only generator affected by such problem.



Title: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: fitch on January 24, 2016, 10:02:24 pm
Gby,
First I want to comment on your scope.  The pictures look like they came from mine, a TDS-694C.  But with the same 10G sample rate as yours, mine yields a 3G bandwidth.

Anyway, I think your analysis of the modes is right.  However, I think the reason you are seeing slightly different rise times between built in and TrueArb is due to slight measurement error.s. It is possible that the difference in frequency and/or duty cycle causes the peak to peak voltage to be slightly different, and that mucks with your rise time measurement slightly.

Anyway, I just got my SDG2042X and am having fun playing with it, too.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: billfernandez on January 25, 2016, 03:21:23 am
DDS AWG Square Rise Time 2x Faster Than Built In Square Rise Time

...In looking at the Arbitrary Wave square output I note that the rise time is much faster than when using the built in Square wave shape.  See the attached scope captures.

The second scope picture shows the arbitrary square wave shape running in DDS Arb Mode at the same 10 MHz.  Now the rise time is 4.6 nSec...

The third scope picture shows the arbitrary square wave shape running in TrueArb Arb Mode at 1.5 MHz.  Now the rise time is 8.8 nSec...

I've been experimenting with creating and running my own binary waveform files.  So far I've been testing at the full output swing (10Vpp into 50Ohms), and at various output frequencies.  I find that when I play a file in DDS mode the rise and fall times of vertical transitions is about 4.6nS.  I find that when I play the same file in TruArb mode the rise and fall times of vertical transitions is about 8.6nS.

gby, in response to your question I wonder if the generator is using DDS mode to generate its squarewaves.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: alank2 on January 25, 2016, 03:48:53 am
There is a change in the waveform when you turn on the sweep mode too.  Try enabling sweep mode but setting the start/stop frequency to the same frequency so it really isn't sweeping.  It changes the rise/fall times and waveform shape.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: billfernandez on January 25, 2016, 04:07:38 am
There is a change in the waveform when you turn on the sweep mode too.  Try enabling sweep mode but setting the start/stop frequency to the same frequency so it really isn't sweeping.  It changes the rise/fall times and waveform shape.

I'll try that. 

I've learned that Sweep, Burst and Modulate are disabled when in TruArb mode (but they are enabled in DDS mode).
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: fang64 on January 28, 2016, 02:28:52 am
Thanks for the info analogNewbie,

how could i download or upload a file via Telnet?
Put or get seem not to work. Is it possible to install any utility in the filesystem to keep the door open after
Siglent closed the gap with next update?

Karsten

Another way to transfer files I've used frequently is netcat, on the receiver you can run "nc -l -p TCP_Port > somefile.xml" and on the sender ( siglent ) you would run "nc receiver_ip TCP_Port < somefile.xml"

Obviously replacing TCP_Port with a free TCP port and receiver_ip with the IP that you are sending the file to.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on January 30, 2016, 06:50:24 am
In my Inbox from Siglent:

SDG2000X important update.

http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDG2000X-P17R5.rar (http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDG2000X-P17R5.rar)

Release notes:
http://www.siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=3608 (http://www.siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=3608)

Note
Siglent will be on Chinese New Year break until 14th Feb.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: highwayman on January 30, 2016, 02:28:54 pm

Siglent will be on Chinese New Year break until 14th Feb.

I ordered an SDG2000x yesterday.  When the two month delivery appeared, I started to worry.  This ^^ may explain why the delay is so long.  I would still prefer one built before break.

To add more worry to worry, the entire SDG2000x line appears as "Discontinued" at TEquipment.NET where I placed my order.  Same with some models of the SDG1000 line.  Maybe "Discontinued" is code for "Long Lead Time"?  I'll try to shed some more light on the subject when I know more.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: markone on January 30, 2016, 03:04:53 pm
In my Inbox from Siglent:

SDG2000X important update.

http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDG2000X-P17R5.rar (http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDG2000X-P17R5.rar)

Release notes:
http://www.siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=3608 (http://www.siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=3608)

Note
Siglent will be on Chinese New Year break until 14th Feb.

Lots of important bugfix, starting from the first one :

a) A bug in file system could cause the generator never startup


But i wonder if it breaks the game of the frequency update.

Volunteers that check this ?  :)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: billfernandez on January 30, 2016, 03:40:16 pm
SDG2000X important update.

http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDG2000X-P17R5.rar (http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDG2000X-P17R5.rar)

Release notes:
http://www.siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=3608 (http://www.siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=3608)

One of the bug fixes on the list is "g) Unable to remove files with uncommon character(s) in their names."  I wonder/hope if this will fix the problem Hagrid was having.  I also wonder if we now will be able to have spaces in file names.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Svuppe on January 30, 2016, 04:49:26 pm
But i wonder if it breaks the game of the frequency update.
Volunteers that check this ?  :)

I found this note in the enclosed pdf:
Quote
NOTE: After being updated to this release, the generator cannot be backward to previous releases any more
Point of no return  :scared:

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: markone on January 30, 2016, 05:28:27 pm
But i wonder if it breaks the game of the frequency update.
Volunteers that check this ?  :)

I found this note in the enclosed pdf:
Quote
NOTE: After being updated to this release, the generator cannot be backward to previous releases any more
Point of no return  :scared:

Heck,

i missed that, now we have one more reason to fear that the upgrade game is over.

The "A bug in file system could cause the generator never startup" could be an artfully constructed danger to lead to upgrade, but i hope to be wrong.

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: billfernandez on January 30, 2016, 07:20:57 pm
The new firmware seems to add a new feature:  the ability to add to a sine wave 2nd to 9th harmonic components at specified amplitudes.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: steffenmauch on January 30, 2016, 07:38:29 pm
So I can give some light regarding the firmware 2.01.01.17R5.
It does not close telnet access :)
But it introduce a new dir as can be seen below.
Code: [Select]
/etc/init.d # df -h
Filesystem                Size      Used Available Use% Mounted on
ubi0:rootfs              35.2M     15.7M     19.5M  45% /
mdev                     60.9M         0     60.9M   0% /dev
ubi1_0                   85.0M     56.0K     84.9M   0% /usr/bin/siglent/usr
ubi2_0                   40.7M     24.0K     40.6M   0% /usr/bin/siglent/firmdata0
Code: [Select]
/usr/bin/siglent/firmdata0 # ls -all
drwxr-xr-x    2 1000     ding          400 Jan  1 00:09 .
drwxr-xr-x    7 1000     ding          560 Jan  1 00:00 ..
-rw-r--r--    1 root     root          241 Jan  1 00:00 NSP_system_info.xml
-rwxr-xr-x    1 root     root          484 Jan  1 00:00 NSP_trends_config_info.xml
-rwxr-xr-x    1 1000     ding           74 Jan 15  2016 version.txt
Interesting is the fact that all mounts are now read-only!
Code: [Select]
/ # mount
rootfs on / type rootfs (rw)
ubi0:rootfs on / type ubifs (ro,relatime)
proc on /proc type proc (rw,relatime)
sysfs on /sys type sysfs (rw,relatime)
mdev on /dev type tmpfs (rw,relatime)
devpts on /dev/pts type devpts (rw,relatime,mode=600)
none on /sys/kernel/debug type debugfs (rw,relatime)
ubi1_0 on /usr/bin/siglent/usr type ubifs (rw,relatime)
ubi2_0 on /usr/bin/siglent/firmdata0 type ubifs (ro,relatime)
But you can remount the filesystem easily to gain rw access:
Code: [Select]
mount -o remount,rw ubi2_0 /usr/bin/siglent/firmdata0
For all version so far it is sufficient to remove
Code: [Select]
<license><bandwidth_update_license>xxxx</bandwidth_update_license></license>from the 'NSP_system_info.xml' file.
This preserves the serial number of the device while changing the bandwidth setting.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: gby on January 30, 2016, 10:22:55 pm
I find it interesting that this update has the .ADS and the .CFG files like the last (16R2) update but the instructions in this update only instruct you to load the .ADS file and not the .CFG file like last time.

Are people following the instructions (thus ignoring the .CFG file) or are people following the previous instructions and loading first the .ADS and then the .CFG file?

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: steffenmauch on January 30, 2016, 10:36:46 pm
I ignored the .cfg file and loaded only the .ads to the usb stick for performing the update.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: uncle_bob on January 31, 2016, 12:50:25 am

Siglent will be on Chinese New Year break until 14th Feb.

I ordered an SDG2000x yesterday.  When the two month delivery appeared, I started to worry.  This ^^ may explain why the delay is so long.  I would still prefer one built before break.

To add more worry to worry, the entire SDG2000x line appears as "Discontinued" at TEquipment.NET where I placed my order.  Same with some models of the SDG1000 line.  Maybe "Discontinued" is code for "Long Lead Time"?  I'll try to shed some more light on the subject when I know more.

Hi

It's more than just the SDG2042X. If you dig a bit deeper the vast majority of what they still show in Siglent also shows as having stock on hand. They "discontinued" a lot more than just one function generator. Based on what is up on the web site, it looks like Tequipment and Siglent are parting ways.

I also have a generator on back order with them. Hopefully it will ship on schedule. Mine is currently showing a mid February date with an odd little note under it "Ships from an alternate warehouse".

Hopefully somebody will pop up with an announcement and let us all know what is going on.

Bob
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: markone on January 31, 2016, 01:09:37 am
The new firmware seems to add a new feature:  the ability to add to a sine wave 2nd to 9th harmonic components at specified amplitudes.

That was already available with the previous release (16R2).
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: billfernandez on January 31, 2016, 04:38:24 am
I ignored the .cfg file and loaded only the .ads to the usb stick for performing the update.

Me too.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: billfernandez on January 31, 2016, 04:40:40 am
The new firmware seems to add a new feature:  the ability to add to a sine wave 2nd to 9th harmonic components at specified amplitudes.

That was already available with the previous release (16R2).

Huh.  Guess I just didn't notice until now.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on January 31, 2016, 06:32:58 am
I find it interesting that this update has the .ADS and the .CFG files like the last (16R2) update but the instructions in this update only instruct you to load the .ADS file and not the .CFG file like last time.

Are people following the instructions (thus ignoring the .CFG file) or are people following the previous instructions and loading first the .ADS and then the .CFG file?
With some other Siglent products when a.cfg file was needed for a major update, those owners that missed that update would still require the .cfg file to update future FW updates.
There was some confusion about this and I suspect that Siglent are now just including the .cfg in the FW update package in case it's needed.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: markone on January 31, 2016, 09:41:57 am
The new firmware seems to add a new feature:  the ability to add to a sine wave 2nd to 9th harmonic components at specified amplitudes.

That was already available with the previous release (16R2).

Huh.  Guess I just didn't notice until now.

Great feature, anyway, tested it with a spectrum analyzer time ago and works a treat.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Svuppe on January 31, 2016, 11:01:03 am
Has anyone poked around inside one of these yet, and maybe found the serial console (ttyO0)? If so, does it provide access to a bootloader during startup?
That would be very nice for emergency recovery in case of unfortunate accidents when messing around in the file system  >:D
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: steffenmauch on January 31, 2016, 12:09:10 pm
So far I haven't open the device, but maybe parts of the output when updating is interesting for someone:

When using a text file with extension .ads the output is the following when trying to upgrade:
Code: [Select]
[WARNNING]:ui_lib_parse_child_key():line=621:Can't update parameter from cfg!!!!!!
FileHeader.product_type == 769303683
version_flag == 0
xml_upgrade_id = 10600
++++++++++++UPDATE_FAIL+++++++++++

When using the 'SDG2000_V200R001B01D01P17R5.ADS':
Code: [Select]
[WARNNING]:ui_lib_parse_child_key():line=621:Can't update parameter from cfg!!!!!!
FileHeader.product_type == 10600
version_flag == 1
xml_upgrade_id = 10600
rm: cannot remove '/usr/bin/siglent/usr/usr/upgrade': No such file or directory
Archive:  /usr/bin/siglent/usr/usr/upgrade/config.zip
   creating: app/
   creating: app/etc/
   creating: app/etc/udhcpc.d/
  inflating: app/etc/udhcpc.d/50default
   creating: app/etc/network/
   creating: app/etc/network/if-up.d/
   creating: app/etc/network/if-down.d/
  inflating: app/etc/network/options
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  inflating: app/etc/network/if-post-down.d/wpa-supplicant
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  inflating: app/etc/network/if-pre-up.d/wireless-tools
  inflating: app/etc/network/if-pre-up.d/wpa-supplicant
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  inflating: app/etc/network/interfaces
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  inflating: app/etc/resolv.conf
   creating: app/etc/hotplug/
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  inflating: app/etc/hotplug/usb/udisk_insert
  inflating: app/etc/hotplug/usb/udisk_remove
  inflating: app/etc/inittab
   creating: config/
  inflating: config/NSP_config_upgrade_info.xml
  inflating: config/NSP_limit_data.xml
   creating: config/fpga/
  inflating: config/fpga/fpga.bin
  inflating: config/version.txt
   creating: config/arb/
  inflating: config/arb/153_square_duty10.bin
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  inflating: config/arb/SDG2000X_Arb_Summary_V1.2.xlsx
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  inflating: config/arb/119_versiera_ram.bin
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  inflating: config/arb/192_square_duty88.bin
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  inflating: datafs.img
   creating: drivers/
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  inflating: drivers/fbcon_ud.ko
  inflating: drivers/softcursor.ko
  inflating: drivers/udc-core.ko
  inflating: firmdata0.img
   creating: lib/
  inflating: lib/libglog.so.0
  inflating: MLO
  inflating: ro_uImage
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  inflating: sdg2000.app
  inflating: siglentlib.sh
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  inflating: update.sh
new update.sh starting ...
ubi0:rootfs / ubifs ro,relatime 0 0
rootfs ro
upgrade /usr/bin/siglent/usr/usr/upgrade/rw_uImage
Erasing 128 Kibyte @ 5e0000 -- 100 % complete
Writing data to block 0 at offset 0x0
Writing data to block 1 at offset 0x20000
Writing data to block 2 at offset 0x40000
Writing data to block 3 at offset 0x60000
Writing data to block 4 at offset 0x80000
Writing data to block 5 at offset 0xa0000
Writing data to block 6 at offset 0xc0000
Writing data to block 7 at offset 0xe0000
Writing data to block 8 at offset 0x100000
Writing data to block 9 at offset 0x120000
Writing data to block 10 at offset 0x140000
Writing data to block 11 at offset 0x160000
Writing data to block 12 at offset 0x180000
Writing data to block 13 at offset 0x1a0000
Writing data to block 14 at offset 0x1c0000
Writing data to block 15 at offset 0x1e0000
Writing data to block 16 at offset 0x200000
Writing data to block 17 at offset 0x220000
Writing data to block 18 at offset 0x240000
is 3.0 parition  version
Then the device is rebooting twice and as I connect via telnet, I can't see any further messages ...

Anyway, I started a new thread to gather information about the .ads file format.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: CustomEngineerer on January 31, 2016, 05:50:58 pm
I find it interesting that this update has the .ADS and the .CFG files like the last (16R2) update but the instructions in this update only instruct you to load the .ADS file and not the .CFG file like last time.

Are people following the instructions (thus ignoring the .CFG file) or are people following the previous instructions and loading first the .ADS and then the .CFG file?
With some other Siglent products when a.cfg file was needed for a major update, those owners that missed that update would still require the .cfg file to update future FW updates.
There was some confusion about this and I suspect that Siglent are now just including the .cfg in the FW update package in case it's needed.

It appears to be a different .CFG file though. Has Siglent indicated whether its necessary to install the new one or not?

sha1sum
29c021d994cc8c40f7234c4b66a0aedd24a084ba  SDG2000X_V2.0.CFG
ebf0723a80ce91840124c51014db752134bbfb25  SDG2000X_V3.1.CFG
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on January 31, 2016, 06:29:24 pm
I find it interesting that this update has the .ADS and the .CFG files like the last (16R2) update but the instructions in this update only instruct you to load the .ADS file and not the .CFG file like last time.

Are people following the instructions (thus ignoring the .CFG file) or are people following the previous instructions and loading first the .ADS and then the .CFG file?
With some other Siglent products when a.cfg file was needed for a major update, those owners that missed that update would still require the .cfg file to update future FW updates.
There was some confusion about this and I suspect that Siglent are now just including the .cfg in the FW update package in case it's needed.

It appears to be a different .CFG file though. Has Siglent indicated whether its necessary to install the new one or not?

sha1sum
29c021d994cc8c40f7234c4b66a0aedd24a084ba  SDG2000X_V2.0.CFG
ebf0723a80ce91840124c51014db752134bbfb25  SDG2000X_V3.1.CFG
Unless there's instruction in the FW install package to use the new .cfg I don't think I'd bother if the main FW .ads update fixed issues that you had noticed.

As I pointed out above, if an owner got "left behind" with FW updates the .cfg file may be needed to install much later FW and it is quite possible that the .cfg file might have to "evolve" to allow later FW updates to be installed.

Siglent (China) are now on holidays until 15 Feb.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: CustomEngineerer on January 31, 2016, 07:15:50 pm
Makes sense, thanks.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Siglent America on February 01, 2016, 03:53:35 pm
Greetings.

I was at the factory last week and I asked that all new FW updates contain instructions on how to upgrade from older versions. That is to say, if the latest FW version is V10 then how does one upgrade from V9, V8, V7, etc. I can't guarantee how far back these older version instructions will go but I believe this will be a big help to our customers.

Thanks.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: W7NGA on February 01, 2016, 04:06:53 pm
I see that all Siglent products have been discontinued at Tequipment.net. Have they dropped their dealership or just an egregious database glitch?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: billfernandez on February 01, 2016, 06:01:19 pm
I was at the factory last week and I asked that all new FW updates contain instructions on how to upgrade from older versions...

That will be great, thanks!
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Siglent America on February 01, 2016, 07:22:46 pm
I see that all Siglent products have been discontinued at Tequipment.net. Have they dropped their dealership or just an egregious database glitch?

Hi W7NGA.

For an updated list of Siglent distributors in North America you can go to our Siglent America website at
http://www.siglentamerica.com/how_to_buy (http://www.siglentamerica.com/how_to_buy)

If you have any questions then you can email us at
info@Siglent.com

Thank you!
Steve
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: alank2 on February 01, 2016, 07:25:26 pm
Also, Steve says no reason to load the CFG file for the latest firmware, just the ADS only.  CFG should not have been included.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: MisterBiscuit on February 01, 2016, 07:31:45 pm
I see that all Siglent products have been discontinued at Tequipment.net. Have they dropped their dealership or just an egregious database glitch?

Hi W7NGA.

For an updated list of Siglent distributors in North America you can go to our Siglent America website at
http://www.siglentamerica.com/how_to_buy (http://www.siglentamerica.com/how_to_buy)

If you have any questions then you can email us at
info@Siglent.com

Wait, isn't dirty laundry supposed to be aired out in public?  ;D ;D ;D

OK, so what's the real deal here? TEquipment's EEVBLOG discount is a strong incentive that keeps me doing business with them. If there's no Siglent at TEquipment, that likely means I won't be buying any more Siglent products unless someone spills the beans on what happened here.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: alank2 on February 01, 2016, 07:33:49 pm
Steve - tell the firmware devs they did a fantastic job on the new counter - wow is that much improved!  It has all the statistics I was looking for.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: TheSteve on February 01, 2016, 07:53:05 pm
I see that all Siglent products have been discontinued at Tequipment.net. Have they dropped their dealership or just an egregious database glitch?

Hi W7NGA.

For an updated list of Siglent distributors in North America you can go to our Siglent America website at
http://www.siglentamerica.com/how_to_buy (http://www.siglentamerica.com/how_to_buy)

If you have any questions then you can email us at
info@Siglent.com

Wait, isn't dirty laundry supposed to be aired out in public?  ;D ;D ;D

OK, so what's the real deal here? TEquipment's EEVBLOG discount is a strong incentive that keeps me doing business with them. If there's no Siglent at TEquipment, that likely means I won't be buying any more Siglent products unless someone spills the beans on what happened here.

Wow, losing Tequipment seems pretty serious to those of us on the eevblog - that was the place to buy from!
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Siglent America on February 01, 2016, 08:27:00 pm
I can't speak for our distributors on this but I would bet that if you contacted our other distributors that they (at least some of them) would offer the same discount.
But that is their call.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: saelig on February 01, 2016, 09:13:57 pm
I can't speak for our distributors on this but I would bet that if you contacted our other distributors that they (at least some of them) would offer the same discount.
But that is their call.

Yes indeed - Saelig offers a discount to all our EEV friends! 

- Alan Lowne (CEO - Saelig Co. Inc.  www.saelig.com (http://www.saelig.com))
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: saelig on February 01, 2016, 09:24:16 pm
I see that all Siglent products have been discontinued at Tequipment.net. Have they dropped their dealership or just an egregious database glitch?

Hi W7NGA.

For an updated list of Siglent distributors in North America you can go to our Siglent America website at
http://www.siglentamerica.com/how_to_buy (http://www.siglentamerica.com/how_to_buy)

If you have any questions then you can email us at
info@Siglent.com

Wait, isn't dirty laundry supposed to be aired out in public?  ;D ;D ;D

OK, so what's the real deal here? TEquipment's EEVBLOG discount is a strong incentive that keeps me doing business with them. If there's no Siglent at TEquipment, that likely means I won't be buying any more Siglent products unless someone spills the beans on what happened here.


We LOVE Siglent products at Saelig Co. Inc - we also offer EEVblog discounts. 

I think TE just decided to focus on other lines - they have hundreds it seems.  It's a tough world out there! 

BTW -we offer excellent tech support too in case you need advice on what to buy.

Alan Lowne
Saelig Co. Inc.  CEO
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: saelig on February 01, 2016, 09:25:56 pm
I see that all Siglent products have been discontinued at Tequipment.net. Have they dropped their dealership or just an egregious database glitch?

Hi W7NGA.

For an updated list of Siglent distributors in North America you can go to our Siglent America website at
http://www.siglentamerica.com/how_to_buy (http://www.siglentamerica.com/how_to_buy)

If you have any questions then you can email us at
info@Siglent.com

Wait, isn't dirty laundry supposed to be aired out in public?  ;D ;D ;D

OK, so what's the real deal here? TEquipment's EEVBLOG discount is a strong incentive that keeps me doing business with them. If there's no Siglent at TEquipment, that likely means I won't be buying any more Siglent products unless someone spills the beans on what happened here.

Wow, losing Tequipment seems pretty serious to those of us on the eevblog - that was the place to buy from!


Don't forget Saelig Co. Inc. (NY) has the full Siglent range too - with EEVblog discounts as well.  Please spread the word!

Alan Lowne
Saelig co. Inc.  CEO
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: mojoe on February 01, 2016, 11:13:52 pm

We LOVE Siglent products at Saelig Co. Inc - we also offer EEVblog discounts. 

Alan Lowne
Saelig Co. Inc.  CEO

That is great news. Is the discount the same as offered by TEquipment? Do we get a code, or how do we apply the discount when ordering?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: mojoe on February 01, 2016, 11:28:13 pm
Well, the TEquipment news explains my recent bad dealings with them. I ordered an SDG2042X from them recently (would have ordered from Saelig, as usual, but tempted by the TEquipment discount). Three days later, it still hadn't shipped, so I called and was told it would ship that very day. They offered to split 2-day shipping (costing me an extra $25), so I would have it on Friday. Of course, they didn't ship it out until the next day, so I didn't get it by Friday, like I paid for. I thought about contacting TEquipment to try getting my $25 back, but after this recent news, and the way I got lied to, I won't be buying from them any more. I've never had a problem with Saelig.

On top of my bad experience, I see that I got an early piece of hardware. They must have dug up some very old stock to sell me one. They should have been honest and just told me that they could not fullfill my order.

I got HW: 01-00-00-22-00. Are there any problems that I should know about? Does anyone know the difference to the latest hardware? I have only used some basic functions so far, so I don't know if all is OK. I did flash the 16R firmware. Haven't done the recent firmware yet.

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: CustomEngineerer on February 02, 2016, 03:25:59 am
Mojoe, as far as I know thats the only Hardware version Siglent have made. When I bought my SDG2042X at the end of November/beginning of December it showed hardware ver 01-00-00-22-00 when I received it. And then each time I have installed a new firmware version, the hardware version has increased.

Hardware Ver     Filename
01-00-00-22-00  Default Came Installed
01-07-00-23-00  SDG2000_V200R001B01D01P15R2.ADS
01-07-00-24-00  SDG2000_V200R001B01D01P16R2.ADS, SDG2000X_V2.0.CFG
01-07-00-26-00  SDG2000_V200R001B01D01P17R5.ADS
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: mojoe on February 02, 2016, 05:00:44 am
Mojoe, as far as I know thats the only Hardware version Siglent have made. When I bought my SDG2042X at the end of November/beginning of December it showed hardware ver 01-00-00-22-00 when I received it. And then each time I have installed a new firmware version, the hardware version has increased.

Hardware Ver     Filename
01-00-00-22-00  Default Came Installed
01-07-00-23-00  SDG2000_V200R001B01D01P15R2.ADS
01-07-00-24-00  SDG2000_V200R001B01D01P16R2.ADS, SDG2000X_V2.0.CFG
01-07-00-26-00  SDG2000_V200R001B01D01P17R5.ADS

Thanks for the reply. I just checked mine after installing firmware 17R5 and it did indeed change the HW version (matching yours). Strange that it would change the HW version. To me, this should indicate a new circuit board, not just firmware. That is afterall, what the FW version number is for.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: CustomEngineerer on February 02, 2016, 05:36:08 am
Definitely agree. Caught me by surprise when I first noticed it.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: rf-loop on February 02, 2016, 07:11:42 am
In SDG800 manual. Perhaps SDG2kX have something similar(?):

Hardware version:
02-00-00-21-25 represents ordinally: PCB version, BOM version, Daughter
card version, FPGA version, CPLD version.
I think least FPGA and CPLD version may change after FW update.

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: MisterBiscuit on February 02, 2016, 12:02:44 pm
I can't speak for our distributors on this but I would bet that if you contacted our other distributors that they (at least some of them) would offer the same discount.
But that is their call.

Yes indeed - Saelig offers a discount to all our EEV friends! 

- Alan Lowne (CEO - Saelig Co. Inc.  www.saelig.com (http://www.saelig.com))

Hi Alan, could you be more specific? Is the EEV discount better than the 6% offered by TEquipment?

FYI, the 2nd biggest reason why I haven't purchased from Saelig in the past is that your website doesn't show "in stock" status on products. When I need something, I usually need it "now" and prefer not to have to get on the phone with multiple vendors to find out who has it in stock.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: saelig on February 02, 2016, 03:45:56 pm

We LOVE Siglent products at Saelig Co. Inc - we also offer EEVblog discounts. 

Alan Lowne
Saelig Co. Inc.  CEO

That is great news. Is the discount the same as offered by TEquipment? Do we get a code, or how do we apply the discount when ordering?

Yes, I'll PM you with the code shortly!

Quote from: MisterBiscuit
FYI, the 2nd biggest reason why I haven't purchased from Saelig in the past is that your website doesn't show "in stock" status on products. When I need something, I usually need it "now" and prefer not to have to get on the phone with multiple vendors to find out who has it in stock.

I would love to have a live inventory on our website, but we simply do not have the resources to maintain such a thing just yet. Hopefully in the future! We hope to make up for this by offering items such as our free carrying cases and other discounts for our customers.

Alan Lowne
CEO
Saelig Co. Inc.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: nctnico on February 02, 2016, 06:15:19 pm
Ordering from the US is a no-go for me due to shipping costs and import taxes. Having written that: I usually don't order from webshops which don't have an 'in stock' status because it usually means they don't have it.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: uncle_bob on February 02, 2016, 06:19:10 pm
Ordering from the US is a no-go for me due to shipping costs and import taxes. Having written that: I usually don't order from webshops which don't have an 'in stock' status because it usually means they don't have it.

Hi

Or it results in a delivery date that is two weeks out and adjusts to stay two weeks out for a couple of months ....

Again, not a knock on any specific distributor. Simply something that has happened in the past.

Bob
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: xygor on February 02, 2016, 08:41:40 pm
Arrow's tagline is "Five years out."  Seems like an odd thing for them to say, but I guess they're being honest.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: uncle_bob on February 02, 2016, 09:52:41 pm
Arrow's tagline is "Five years out."  Seems like an odd thing for them to say, but I guess they're being honest.

Hi

You sort of *hope* that's not going to be the information on the "ship date" of the parts you just ordered through them :)

Bob
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tequipment on February 03, 2016, 01:58:23 pm
Interesting how our competitors are speaking for us on here.  I usually never talk bad about our completion because
we are very focused on our customer experience and growing our business. 

We know test equipment better than almost anyone out there.  I personally know Siglent units very well.
We made a choice not to carry Siglent units at this time.

We started this company in 2002 with 3 people.  Here is a little background on me:
http://www.tequipment.net/vice-president-biography/ (http://www.tequipment.net/vice-president-biography/)

We often outsell our competitors by 10 to 1 because of our customer experience, good pricing,
great product data, engineers on staff, etc.

Thanks for the business.  It is very appreciated.
Best Regards,
Evan Cirelli

Vice President and CO-Founder
TEquipment.NET





Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: alank2 on February 03, 2016, 03:58:14 pm
I will add that I've always had fair dealings with TEquipment over the years - and I am a picky customer who expects a company goes that extra mile.  I love the SDG2082X I ordered from you last year, I use it much more often than I thought I would.  I am actually pleased than neither company is digging dirt on the other.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: os40la on February 03, 2016, 04:23:35 pm
Interesting how our competitors are speaking for us on here.  I usually never talk bad about our completion because
we are very focused on our customer experience and growing our business. 

Who is speaking for TE?  :-// We are just wondering why TE no longer carries Siglent. There was a post that someone said they THINK (which means guess in my book) TE is focusing on other lines. I hardly consider that talking bad about TE.  :palm: As far as I can find TE has said nothing about the Siglent thing which is why rumors start flowing. I don't think people are looking for a detailed reason, just something would have been nice so people who just purchased Siglent's from TE don't feel confused about their dealer (at the time) no longer selling Siglent. I use TE for my supplier and have purchased Siglent  from TE a month ago. I don't care the reason why TE is not selling. I just am trying to find out what my options are if I need support.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: smarteebit on February 04, 2016, 02:33:34 am
Are we still talking about SDG2042X?  :-//
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: uncle_bob on February 04, 2016, 02:38:24 am
Are we still talking about SDG2042X?  :-//

Hi

Hopefully now that Siglent / Tequipment has a thread all for its self, the discussion will move over there.

Based on the various bits and pieces, it's sort of a "nothing to see here, move on" kind of thing. The gear will get supported and nobody is getting dramatic about any of it.

Now, if my SDG2042X would just get here !!!! Still scheduled for later this month, just like it's always been.

Bob
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: os40la on February 04, 2016, 05:56:58 pm
After reading thru this tread I noticed that it seems to be ok to install (SDG2000_V200R001B01D01P17R5.ADS) on a 120mhz SDG2042X >:D Is that correct? How many have applied this update and what are your thoughts. I see it is a one way and there is no going back.

I prefer to get my original serial number back. not the 1234567890'ish one. Any thoughts on the process to restore my serial and still keep 120mhz. Should I do this before the P17R5 update or after?.  I still have my original file.

should I restore this file and remove the <license>... line? then do the P17R5 update?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: alank2 on February 04, 2016, 06:03:18 pm
I'll add that when doing the latest firmware update - be patient.  My unit got to 30% and then spontaneously restarted and looked like it was stuck on the startup screen for a long time.  I wait starting to get nervous that it has bricked itself or something, but it did eventually come out of it and it had applied the update.  So, give it time, don't even think of touching that power button, and let it do its thing...
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: uncle_bob on February 04, 2016, 06:06:55 pm
After reading thru this tread I noticed that it seems to be ok to install (SDG2000_V200R001B01D01P17R5.ADS) on a 120mhz SDG2042X >:D Is that correct? How many have applied this update and what are your thoughts. I see it is a one way and there is no going back.

I prefer to get my original serial number back. not the 1234567890'ish one. Any thoughts on the process to restore my serial and still keep 120mhz. Should I do this before the P17R5 update or after?.  I still have my original file.

should I restore this file and remove the <license>... line? then do the P17R5 update?

Hi

Unless you bought the 120 MHz version, it seems to be an either / or sort of thing. You can have your original serial number and original bandwidth *or* you have 12345... and the full bandwidth. Several people have suggested putting your original file back before the upgrade and then reversing the process (save the file, delete the file) after the upgrade. If anybody has spotted a change in the file from the upgrade, I missed them reporting that.

Bob
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: RoadRunner on February 05, 2016, 06:51:01 am
i have ordered my SDG2042x from aliexpress in mid January , i have received software version 1.17R5 which is listed on silent website  as latest firmware, i verify that it telnet is still working  :-+. but the old hack just remove the license fill will not working any more :-BROKE , silent has fixed it ( or broken it) ,currently you can not downgrade to lower version.

so if you have old version (<1.17R5) of firmware and you upgrade to 1.17R5 or later, it may switch to your original current license or not boot at all.

i have looked through telnet and NSP_system_info.xml file is not important any more , content is same as if get automatically by the app with serial number 0123456789 , application does not seem to care about it at all, i could not able to locate where they are storing the real license and serial now.

i deleted the NSP_system_info.xml when the siglent program was running, and it gets automatically created again.
but when i terminated siglent program , removed the file and restarted. it never get created and it does not matter if you have it or not program just run normal. 

but good news is,I was able to hack it with one other method :-DD ,

Hi

Unless you bought the 120 MHz version, it seems to be an either / or sort of thing. You can have your original serial number and original bandwidth *or* you have 12345... and the full bandwidth. Several people have suggested putting your original file back before the upgrade and then reversing the process (save the file, delete the file) after the upgrade. If anybody has spotted a change in the file from the upgrade, I missed them reporting that.

Bob

and you can still retain original serial number,i really want to share new hack  but don't know if i should share into public domain  :-//,because if silent get to know about this,  they are going to fix this in next update.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: mojoe on February 05, 2016, 06:55:59 am
My experience with the firmware upgrade.

On the very old firmware that came with my unit, I renamed the XML file and rebooted. It booted up with full bandwidth and the generic SN. I then applied firmware 15 and everything was still good.

After reading here that firmware 17 changed a few things, but that the mod was still doable, I flashed 17 without undoing the previous mod. Upon bootup, I still had full bandwidth and the generic SN.

I then logged in and copied the original XML file with my SN to the new location. I removed the one line with the license key. Rebooted and I still have full bandwidth. No need to make the folder ro manually after the mod, as it is marked ro on bootup.

I checked the siggen on a SA and the output looks very clean, even at 120 MHz. Checking the frequency with a GPSDO-locked HP counter, it was about 18 Hz high (worst case with temperature drift) at 120 MHz. If I did the math correctly, that is 0.15 ppm. That is pretty damn good for the internal reference.

(Edited to add picture. SN partially obscured.)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: CustomEngineerer on February 05, 2016, 07:02:35 am
@Gaurav, the way to hack it on the 17R5 is posted 10 or so posts up. It looks like Siglent tried to close the hole but didn't do a great job of it.

Edit: Actually, probably a little more than 10 posts back, but it is there.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: markone on February 07, 2016, 12:40:22 am
Hi to all,

have someone tried to set 1dBm amplitude for sine wave signal output on 50ohm load (50ohm output mode of course) ?

Mine 2042X, regardless the freq., sources 245mVrms (716mVpp), i I would have expected 223mVrms (1dBm).

The fanny thing is that the generator is spot on amplitude wise, if i set 223mVrms i obtain exactly that value, so the dBm scale seems way off.

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: rf-loop on February 07, 2016, 07:22:36 am
Hi to all,

have someone tried to set 1dBm amplitude for sine wave signal output on 50ohm load (50ohm output mode of course) ?

Mine 2042X, regardless the freq., sources 245mVrms (716mVpp), i I would have expected 223mVrms (1dBm).

The fanny thing is that the generator is spot on amplitude wise, if i set 223mVrms i obtain exactly that value, so the dBm scale seems way off.

Error in your math, not so much in Siglent math.


---------------
Note also that many times nominal 50 ohm is not 50ohm in real world. There is tolerances but also if go out from DC there is reactances and not only pure resistance and finally what we get is sum of errors. I'm also sceptic if Siglent output is 50ohm (+/-1%) impedance over whole its frequency band. Perhaps there is this accuracy resistor but after all parasitic reactances I doubt it is true impedance with this 1% accuracy. (yes I know this is nitpicking but after we sum every single error together result may be more out what we expect. With higher frequencies it is even very fun that many 50ohm cables are not 50ohm impedance. Example Belden " semi crab" RG-58/U  is 52ohm (nominal +/- 2 ohm) and example M17/84 is nominally 50ohm +/-2ohm. Some chinese (Taiwan island) manufacturer "total junk" RG-58/U is specified 53ohm +/- 3ohm |O   and this is not yet super junk what can find in chinese "car garace" sellers and on the street and eBay.

After then come also oscilloscopes inputs impedances if scope have "50ohm" inputs or if used some external 50ohm terminators. This is other world of errors. 


But for "ideal world"
-1dBm in 50 ohm system is ~199mVrms
0dBm in 50 ohm system is ~224mVrms
1dBm in 50 ohm system is ~251mVrms

0dBm = 1mW (independent of impedance of course)


Here are  nice calculatos
http://www.daycounter.com/Calculators/Decibels-Calculator.phtml (http://www.daycounter.com/Calculators/Decibels-Calculator.phtml)

Here is Mini Circuits table
http://194.75.38.69/pages/pdfs/dg03-110.pdf (http://194.75.38.69/pages/pdfs/dg03-110.pdf)


Then:
Quote
...sources 245mVrms (716mVpp)...

Sinewave?

If there  716mVpp pure sine wave it is not 245mVrms  it is 253.1mVrms, not 245mVrms






Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Performa01 on February 07, 2016, 09:46:15 am
Oh yes, rf-Loop has already covered this topic very nicely.

I was about to say that I'm not very good in remembering numbers, nevertheless that 224mV figure for 0dBm into 50 ohms has burned into my brain (it actually is 223.6mV).

So without a calculator, +1dBm has to be some 10% higher, hence my first guess would have been about 247mV. Of course, with the help of a calculator, we get the more exact value of 250.88mV...
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Performa01 on February 07, 2016, 10:27:39 am
You're confusing 1dBm with 0dBm.

0dBm is 223.6mVrms into 50 ohms, +1dBm is about 10% higher, as already stated.

EDIT: Ooops - the post I was replying to has gone - so we're all in agreement now obviously  :-+
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: markone on February 07, 2016, 10:28:16 am
Sorry, Got IT, it's my bad  |O

I do have to not always trust my self at late night  :)

Anyway, apart the DC offset that seems a little off with some low values settings (at least trusting my BM869), mine 2042X seems very precise, well within specs.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Performa01 on February 07, 2016, 10:42:10 am
Anyway, apart the DC offset that seems a little off with some low values settings (at least trusting my BM869), mine 2042X seems very precise, well within specs.

I don’t have a SDG2000X, but I think most waveform generators will be the same in this regard, i.e. very nice low noise signal sources even for DC – much better than any ‘precision’ DC power supply – but an offset error of a couple millivolts is to be expected.
I guess this is just the offset error of the high speed operational amplifiers / buffers in the circuit.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: uncle_bob on February 07, 2016, 01:47:54 pm


EDIT: Ooops - the post I was replying to has gone - so we're all in agreement now obviously  :-+

Hi

Why is it that every time *I* do those sort of errors (an alarmingly common occurrence), they get quoted and preserved forever and ever in all their un-editible glory ??

One of the features of a catalog I once wrote was a table translating things like dbm, volts rms and volts peak to peak. Conversion errors were pretty common and we would get a lot of calls from people checking out our parts.

Bob
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: markone on February 07, 2016, 05:33:49 pm
Anyway, apart the DC offset that seems a little off with some low values settings (at least trusting my BM869), mine 2042X seems very precise, well within specs.

I don’t have a SDG2000X, but I think most waveform generators will be the same in this regard, i.e. very nice low noise signal sources even for DC – much better than any ‘precision’ DC power supply – but an offset error of a couple millivolts is to be expected.
I guess this is just the offset error of the high speed operational amplifiers / buffers in the circuit.

The error is quite small but not constant, you cannot compensate it with a fixed offset and/or proportional factor.
As soon as a will be able to read my BM869 under Labview (the output data format seems quite ugly and i feel lazy to write the driver) i will do a measure loop to plot the error curve.
 
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: markone on February 07, 2016, 05:55:16 pm
Why is it that every time *I* do those sort of errors (an alarmingly common occurrence), they get quoted and preserved forever and ever in all their un-editible glory ??
Bob

I was fast enough to hidden my second mistake, anyway the first one is still available for any LOL & LULZ ;)

The worrying thing is that i was convinced to be right  :wtf: i mixed the will for one mW with dB unit annotation as the last nooob of the block. 
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: uncle_bob on February 07, 2016, 06:05:00 pm
Hi

The DAC used on the generator (like all DAC's) has an integral non-linearity spec. Depending on the waveform and where the max error hits, this is likely to give you about four LSB of error (as mentioned earlier in this thread). If you run through the math, that alone with no other errors will get you a millivolt. If there is an opamp or three in the chain, they likely have temperature coefficients to their offset voltage. I very much doubt they put (noisy) chopper stabilized amps in there.

A milivolt or three of variation as you switch between this and that plus a couple of milivolts after cal would be doing very well. Mine doing worse than yours also would not be un-expected. This sort of stuff will vary unit to unit.

Bob
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: markone on February 07, 2016, 06:09:23 pm
I was forgetting, the same behaviour apply for DC output mode.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Performa01 on February 07, 2016, 09:16:15 pm
I was forgetting, the same behaviour apply for DC output mode.

Yes, of course. DC is just the programmed offset without any variation (AC signal). It is produced by a DAC and runs through all amplifiers/buffers just like any other waveform.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: markone on February 07, 2016, 09:22:53 pm
I was forgetting, the same behaviour apply for DC output mode.

Yes, of course. DC is just the programmed offset without any variation (AC signal). It is produced by a DAC and runs through all amplifiers/buffers just like any other waveform.

I do not remember the exact numbers right now but i had the feeling that the displacement was sometime higher than theoretical DAC resolution step, sure not linear as a DAC scale.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Performa01 on February 07, 2016, 09:37:04 pm
Very likely there is a separate DAC just for the offset, and its output is added to the main signal.

That way the main DAC can always have full resolution, i.e. all 14 (or whatever) bits can be dedicated to the signal waveshape and you still get a respectable offset range.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: uncle_bob on February 07, 2016, 10:21:51 pm
Very likely there is a separate DAC just for the offset, and its output is added to the main signal.

That way the main DAC can always have full resolution, i.e. all 14 (or whatever) bits can be dedicated to the signal waveshape and you still get a respectable offset range.

Hi

Given that they have a very "affordable" instrument here and that DC performance is not a key spec, they may do something pretty simple (R2R on a 4 wire port). They also may ignore it completely. I suspect that every nickel (let alone dollar) gets watched on one of these designs. In this case, I'm glad they did. it's got a lot of bang for the buck.

Bob
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Performa01 on February 07, 2016, 10:46:39 pm
Hi Uncle Bob! :)

Well, from what I've seen so far (e.g. at the beginning of this thread) DC accuracy, while not stellar, is still pretty decent.

EDIT: Having said that, a waveform generator is just a waveform generator and not a process calibrator, so (DC) accuracy needs not be stellar in my book anyway ;)

And you just need to find out what the resolution of the DC output is. Then if you know the max. output range (I think it is +/- 5V) you just need to divide 10V by the resolution and you get the number of steps required. Even if the resolution were just 10mV, you'd need a 10 bit DAC, so no way to do it with a 'homebrew' 4 wire R2R DAC ;)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: markone on February 07, 2016, 11:05:12 pm
Very likely there is a separate DAC just for the offset, and its output is added to the main signal.

That way the main DAC can always have full resolution, i.e. all 14 (or whatever) bits can be dedicated to the signal waveshape and you still get a respectable offset range.

Almost certainly it's made in that way, just out of curiosity i will watch again Dave's tear down in order to spot DACs chip marking.

Sure i agree, lot bang for the bucks, i'm using it on a daily basis, works good and it's pretty.

Not yet expanded, i will do soon  ;)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Performa01 on February 07, 2016, 11:18:02 pm
Sure i agree, lot bang for the bucks, i'm using it on a daily basis, works good and it's pretty.

It appears to be nice bit of kit indeed and I might be seriously tempted if I’d need one.

There are just two things I don’t like so much:

1)   There is no front connector for a sync signal. Yes, very likely there is one on the back, but I hate it when things that I actually use a lot are on the backside.
2)   The output amplifier is rather weak, as I understand it delivers full power only up to 25MHz.

Both are no huge issues, but still a pity…
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: markone on February 07, 2016, 11:21:42 pm
The output amplifier is rather weak, as I understand it delivers full power only up to 25MHz.

What would be your main use ?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Performa01 on February 07, 2016, 11:46:53 pm
What would be your main use ?

Nothing special. Just as a general signal source for various tests and experiments.

When testing the maximum signal handling capability and overload behaviour of amplifiers/frontends I sometimes would have wished for even more than the standard ~3.5Vrms that I can get from 10Vpp into 50 ohms. And I would not want to have only half that at frequencies above 25MHz, even though I know that pretty much any signal generator will have a frequency limit where the output power drops. But 25MHz is a little on the low side.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: billfernandez on February 08, 2016, 12:11:15 am
There are just two things I don’t like so much:

1)   There is no front connector for a sync signal. Yes, very likely there is one on the back, but I hate it when things that I actually use a lot are on the backside.
2)   The output amplifier is rather weak, as I understand it delivers full power only up to 25MHz.

FYI:

o Yes there's a sync connector on the back.  Sync only works up to 1MHz (which seems really low to me).

o The output into 50Ohms is 10Vpp up to 20MHz, then 5Vpp above that (squarewaves go up to 25MHz, sinewaves go up to 40MHz).

o Into "hi-Z" the max output voltage is double the above.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: JohnG on February 08, 2016, 10:12:57 pm
Update to my dual output pulse synchronization issues:

The issues I had earlier with output pulses temporarily losing the delay setting between channels while changing parameters seems to be fixed with the last firmware revision, so thanks, Siglent.

New problem discovered:
When enabling a channel, the DC offset appears to be enabled before the pulse output, and intermittently as well. This can be a big problem when you are starting up. I hope this can be fixed as well. Generator set at pulse output, low value zero, high value 10V (10Vpp, 5V offset), 3.33% duty cycle, 70 kHz, using Chan 1 out. The generator is driving a 50 ohm load, so one should see a 0-5V pulse.

The first waveform triggers when output is enable. There are a bunch of glitches, and note the amplitude of 2.5V (equal to the expected offset value into 50 ohms).

The second shows the same over a long time scale, showing that the output looks like the DC offset of 2.5V for almost 70 ms (!) before the signal kicks in.

The third waveform is just the signal.

John


As an aside, I think it is evidence that the dc offset is produced separately from the signal output.

John

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: billfernandez on February 09, 2016, 05:36:06 am
On the Siglent SDG1000 and SDG800 thread user Deni mentioned that if you have both channels running, and make a frequency change on one channel, then a glitch appears on the other channel:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-sdg1000-and-sdg800-thread/msg843225/#msg843225 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-sdg1000-and-sdg800-thread/msg843225/#msg843225)

User Paul explained an easy way to show this:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-sdg1000-and-sdg800-thread/msg848349/#msg848349 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-sdg1000-and-sdg800-thread/msg848349/#msg848349)

I wondered if the SDG2042X had the same behavior (issue, bug, anomaly...) and it does!  Here's how to see it:
o Make channel A emit a 1Hz sinewave.
o Make channel B emit a 2Hz sinewave.
o Select the microhertz digit on the channel B frequency setting.
o Turn the knob 1 detent.
o The signals on both channels will immediately dive towards zero, emit two small sawtooth waves, then restart their sinewaves.

The first screenshot below shows the initial 1 and 2Hz sinewaves.

The second screenshot shows the glitch.

The third screenshot shows that if the two waveforms are 180 out of phase, then you do the glitch, they restart 180 degrees out of phase.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Performa01 on February 09, 2016, 12:20:06 pm
o Yes there's a sync connector on the back.  Sync only works up to 1MHz (which seems really low to me).

Ouch! 1MHz isn't great indeed.
Does that mean the sync output is a train of 1µs pulses instead of a squarewave?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: billfernandez on February 10, 2016, 02:35:53 am
o Yes there's a sync connector on the back.  Sync only works up to 1MHz (which seems really low to me).

Ouch! 1MHz isn't great indeed.
Does that mean the sync output is a train of 1µs pulses instead of a squarewave?

It is a 1.5V, positive-going pulse, with a fixed pulsewidth of 500nS.  (so when the channel output gets up to 1MHz the sync signal is a squarewave.)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: uncle_bob on February 10, 2016, 12:44:45 pm
o Yes there's a sync connector on the back.  Sync only works up to 1MHz (which seems really low to me).

Ouch! 1MHz isn't great indeed.
Does that mean the sync output is a train of 1µs pulses instead of a squarewave?

It is a 1.5V, positive-going pulse, with a fixed pulsewidth of 500nS.  (so when the channel output gets up to 1MHz the sync signal is a squarewave.)

Hi

Looking at it another way:

The sync comes out every thousand or so output samples. It comes out every hundred or so sine waves at max frequency. It may be an output from a MCU ( = jitter) or it could be from an FPGA ( = not real flexible). It is doubtful that they put in a dedicated sync channel with it's own giga sample sort of speeds just for the sync.

Yes, 10 or 20 MHz still seems like something you could easily do, even with those constraints.

Bob
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: markone on February 10, 2016, 01:07:37 pm
It is a 1.5V, positive-going pulse, with a fixed pulsewidth of 500nS.  (so when the channel output gets up to 1MHz the sync signal is a squarewave.)

Not in my case, amplitude is correct (0-5V) and with sweep function i get a 50% duty cycle square wave synced to  sweep ramp, see attachment.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: billfernandez on February 10, 2016, 06:20:50 pm
It is a 1.5V, positive-going pulse, with a fixed pulsewidth of 500nS.  (so when the channel output gets up to 1MHz the sync signal is a squarewave.)

Not in my case, amplitude is correct (0-5V) and with sweep function i get a 50% duty cycle square wave synced to  sweep ramp, see attachment.

Sorry, I had a 50Ohm terminator on the scope input I used to view the sync waveform. 
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Siglent America on February 12, 2016, 08:03:05 pm
Here is a video on generating a 4-phase signal using two SDG2000X generators:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vw1WLc0Pzjg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vw1WLc0Pzjg)

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: uncle_bob on February 12, 2016, 11:21:32 pm
Here is a video on generating a 4-phase signal using two SDG2000X generators:


Hi

Nice demo !!

Ok, you have a sync out on the top generator and a trigger in on the bottom generator. I assume that there is a delay on the sync out and a delay on the trigger in as well. Not a big deal at 60 Hz. It likely would be a big deal if you did this same thing at 1 MHz.

So, what is the recommended method of taking care of the delay? One approach would be to trigger both generators off of a third. That seems a bit equipment intensive. I'm guessing there is another way to do this. Ideally it would not involve measuring and calibrating the phase on the second set of signals.

Thanks!

Bob

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: nctnico on February 13, 2016, 12:00:54 am
60Hz isn't very demanding but I doubt you'll be able to do the same at 100kHz with these generators.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: neslekkim on February 13, 2016, 11:31:42 am
"Seems that the frequency counter leaks a 10 MHz signal to it's input."

We did identify a cross-talk issue that is causing this leakage to the frequency counter port. The factory tells me they are working on the problem.

Thanks for your comments.

Any information about fix for this?, I would assume this is an hardware issue and thus will only be fixed on newer units?
From which serialnumbers will this be fixed?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: uncle_bob on February 13, 2016, 03:04:22 pm
"Seems that the frequency counter leaks a 10 MHz signal to it's input."

We did identify a cross-talk issue that is causing this leakage to the frequency counter port. The factory tells me they are working on the problem.

Thanks for your comments.

Any information about fix for this?, I would assume this is an hardware issue and thus will only be fixed on newer units?
From which serialnumbers will this be fixed?


Hi

Equally on the same topic:

Assuming it is a hardware fix (it's the ribbon cable from the back panel ... ) what happens with in warranty existing generators? Will they be updated / upgraded / fixed?

Yes, it is a bit early to start digging into this. Right now, it might not matter to most. To the few who might be about to cancel an order for one, it could matter quite a bit :)

Bob
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: alank2 on February 13, 2016, 04:20:28 pm
I may be totally wrong in this, but a great deal of frequency counters are so sensitive that any strong signal around them will be enough to cause it to count.  Do we know that the 10M signal is indeed leaking into the counter input?  Or is the counter just sensitive and 10M is the strongest signal around?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: uncle_bob on February 13, 2016, 04:24:08 pm
I may be totally wrong in this, but a great deal of frequency counters are so sensitive that any strong signal around them will be enough to cause it to count.  Do we know that the 10M signal is indeed leaking into the counter input?  Or is the counter just sensitive and 10M is the strongest signal around?

Hi

There are spectrum analyzer plots running around here showing the leakage. It's at a high enough level that it will mess up counting a 10 MHz signal. It also would give you a neat spur on the generator output.

Bob
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: alank2 on February 13, 2016, 04:25:55 pm
There are spectrum analyzer plots running around here showing the leakage. It's at a high enough level that it will mess up counting a 10 MHz signal. It also would give you a neat spur on the generator output.

That answers it all right!
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Macman on February 14, 2016, 09:27:43 pm
The fan in my unit started making a slight annoying buzzing noise, so I opened it up to see if I could manipulate the fan to get rid of the noise (which I was able to).

While I had it open I noticed it had the Siglent signature rust on the edges of some of the metalwork. It was only slight and am sure it won't be a problem but does show poor attention to detail.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: uncle_bob on February 14, 2016, 09:34:43 pm
The fan in my unit started making a slight annoying buzzing noise, so I opened it up to see if I could manipulate the fan to get rid of the noise (which I was able to).

While I had it open I noticed it had the Siglent signature rust on the edges of some of the metalwork. It was only slight and am sure it won't be a problem but does show poor attention to detail.

Hi

Swipe it down with some silicone grease and move on ...

(yes it is a bit tacky in a brand new instrument)

Bob
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Break42 on February 15, 2016, 09:29:29 am
Synchronization between CH1 and CH2 in sweep mode

Hi folks,

just a bit another point. I have on the CH1 sweep between 10.4Mhz and 11.0Mhz, middle 10.7MHz. Sweep time 300ms. On the CH2 I would like to get a markes (short pulses) at 10.4, 10.7 and 11.0 MHz (that is 0%, 50% and 100% of the 300ms sweep time). My question: How to get these synchronus pulses on the CH2?

Regards
Break
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: nugglix on February 15, 2016, 09:54:15 am
That's simple: you don't.       :-/O

If you need to sync, make the channel emit something at the right moment.
Might be a 150ms pulse every 300ms, that's as close you can get.

Cheers
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Break42 on February 15, 2016, 01:19:03 pm
Synchronization between CH1 and CH2 in sweep mode

Thanks nugglix, I will check how can I manage this today evening.

Anyway I think that such feature ("Synchronize a channel with other sweep channel") would be very helpful for HF development.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: uncle_bob on February 15, 2016, 01:55:29 pm
Synchronization between CH1 and CH2 in sweep mode

Thanks nugglix, I will check how can I manage this today evening.

Anyway I think that such feature ("Synchronize a channel with other sweep channel") would be very helpful for HF development.

Hi

This is sort of why people set up computer driven auto-test systems. The needs of this or that test regime get complicated quickly. If you are testing billions of cell phones ... somebody will make a all in one test set. For the rest of us, that's not going to happen. each of our unique needs does not represent a big enough market. So ... off to the computer and write up some code. Let the computer tell each instrument what to do and when to do it. That's been part of my life for 40+ years. These days with even the "affordable stuff" showing up with standard control ports, it's a lot easier than it was in the 1870's ... errr ... 1970's when I started.

Bob
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: markone on February 16, 2016, 12:30:34 am
Synchronization between CH1 and CH2 in sweep mode

Thanks nugglix, I will check how can I manage this today evening.

Anyway I think that such feature ("Synchronize a channel with other sweep channel") would be very helpful for HF development.

I'm too playing with sweep function to build a sort of scalar network analyzer and i'm facing a phase problem between the two output channels, for instance if i program the device in the following mode :

CH1 : SWEEPed Sine Waveform 1Mhz to 120Mhz, SWEEP Time 16ms, Trig Out ON
CH2 : PULSE function, PERIOD 4MS (16/4), PULSE Width 200us, Delay 0

at first seems to works ok with a pulse every sweep's quarter in perfect phase, bu if i look closer i can see that channel two position slowly drift back, let's say 8ns every 20 seconds, while the generator trigger out signal is luckily "locked" to the sweep "ramp" with a fixed offset of about 500nS.

If you turn off then on the sweeped channel the moving phase offset will be reset but restarts soon to drift again.

Some screens in attachment to explain the matter. 
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: uncle_bob on February 16, 2016, 12:56:25 am


at first seems to works ok with a pulse every sweep's quarter in perfect phase, bu if i look closer i can see that channel two position slowly drift back, let's say 8ns every 20 seconds, while the generator trigger out signal is luckily "locked" to the sweep "ramp" with a fixed offset of about 500nS.

Hi

Ok, let's take a step back and ask the question backwards:

If I wanted to have it drift 8 ns / 20 seconds how could I force it to do that? On a 1 GS/s device, 1 ns is one sample in a second. 20 ns in 20 seconds = I'm dropping one sample each second. If I'm below a sample per second ... that's either dropping samples every couple of seconds or it is something else. I'd bet on "something else".

The generator has a time base in it. It is software corrected for frequency offset. That calculation likely drives some math in the DDS that gives you exactly this or that frequency. The arbitrary wave side of the generator's brain knows that 1 billion samples must each go out on a specific clock edge, no drops, no adds no goofs. The two approaches will eventually collide with each other. If the trigger pulse lives in the "arbitrary waveform" side of the brain and the sine wave sweep lives in the "corrected" side .... you get what you see.

I have *absolutely* no clue if that is even close. The only way I can think to test it would be to somehow zero the calibration coefficients. I'm equally clueless to how that might be done.

Bob
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: markone on February 16, 2016, 01:44:11 am
Ok, let's take a step back and ask the question backwards:

If I wanted to have it drift 8 ns / 20 seconds how could I force it to do that? On a 1 GS/s device, 1 ns is one sample in a second. 20 ns in 20 seconds = I'm dropping one sample each second. If I'm below a sample per second ... that's either dropping samples every couple of seconds or it is something else. I'd bet on "something else".

The generator has a time base in it. It is software corrected for frequency offset. That calculation likely drives some math in the DDS that gives you exactly this or that frequency. The arbitrary wave side of the generator's brain knows that 1 billion samples must each go out on a specific clock edge, no drops, no adds no goofs. The two approaches will eventually collide with each other. If the trigger pulse lives in the "arbitrary waveform" side of the brain and the sine wave sweep lives in the "corrected" side .... you get what you see.

I have *absolutely* no clue if that is even close. The only way I can think to test it would be to somehow zero the calibration coefficients. I'm equally clueless to how that might be done.

Bob

The answer is yes : if i purposely set a "not in ratio" period for the pulse function,  like 4.000001ms with  sweep time = 12ms  (so one sweep time quarter plus 1ns), i can see the two channels drift away as expected.

Notice that the previously reported drift ratio is from a quick & dirty estimation, let's say that is this scale order, i observed it for some minutes, it's not fine smooth but it step's sharply, i could expect also that it has some periodic characteristic, like coming back to zero at some point and restart to drift in fixed cycle.

Another thing that i noticed, that could be usefull to understand how the generator works, is that the sweep function does not have a fixed phase, the signal restart with a different angle every sweep, so you cannot rely on averaged acquisition for the produced sweeped signal.
Days ago i gave up with the second channel pulse time reference,  that was intended to trigger a sampling system placed on the output of an logarithmic amplitude detector, and i'm working only with the generator trigger out signal that so far seemed reliable.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: uncle_bob on February 16, 2016, 02:02:51 am

The answer is yes : if i purposely set a "not in ratio" period for the pulse function,  like 4.000001ms with  sweep time = 12ms  (so one sweep time quarter plus 1ns), i can see the two channels see drift away as expected.



Hi

So indeed you have a math function that can demonstrate the same sort of behavior. With finite precision math a discrete hop is not un-expected. I also believe that the giga sample end of the generator is driven from some sort of interpolator off of a 250 mega sample base. That would also give you 4 rather than 1 ns steps. If the base is lower still 125 MHz (as it very likely is under some conditions ) we are right back at your original 8 nanoseconds.

Bob
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: markone on February 16, 2016, 02:21:37 am
That would also give you 4 rather than 1 ns steps. If the base is lower still 125 MHz (as it very likely is under some conditions ) we are right back at your original 8 nanoseconds.
Bob

Tomorrow i will do some more precise assesment on that, let's say anyway that if the phase error restarts from the very same value with a sweep stop/restart command sequence, as it appears to be, for single shot or short term acquisitions sure it's not a deal breaker.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tsaG on February 16, 2016, 12:28:58 pm
Hi,
Is it possible to output an arbitrary wafevorm signal which I created in National Instruments Multisim?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: uncle_bob on February 16, 2016, 05:49:30 pm
That would also give you 4 rather than 1 ns steps. If the base is lower still 125 MHz (as it very likely is under some conditions ) we are right back at your original 8 nanoseconds.
Bob

Tomorrow i will do some more precise assesment on that, let's say anyway that if the phase error restarts from the very same value with a sweep stop/restart command sequence, as it appears to be, for single shot or short term acquisitions sure it's not a deal breaker.

Hi

Let us know what you find !!

Bob
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: markone on February 16, 2016, 06:22:09 pm
Let us know what you find !!

Bob

Well, my yesterday's estimation was way off ... ::)  actually we have a drift rate of about 2.14ns/s, measure also along 1 hour period, in the form of one 21.4ns sharp drift step every ten second.
The generator trigger output rising edge is always 535ns ahead the actual sweep start, regardelss the sweep settings.

The generator was always set for :

CH1 : SWEEPed Sine Waveform 1Mhz to 120Mhz, SWEEP Time 16ms, Trig Out ON
CH2 : PULSE function, PERIOD 4MS (16/4), PULSE Width 200us, Delay 0
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: uncle_bob on February 16, 2016, 11:12:51 pm
Let us know what you find !!

Bob

Well, my yesterday's estimation was way off ... ::)  actually we have a drift rate of about 2.14ns/s, measure also along 1 hour period, in the form of one 21.4ns sharp drift step every ten second.
The generator trigger output rising edge is always 535ns ahead the actual sweep start, regardelss the sweep settings.

The generator was always set for :

CH1 : SWEEPed Sine Waveform 1Mhz to 120Mhz, SWEEP Time 16ms, Trig Out ON
CH2 : PULSE function, PERIOD 4MS (16/4), PULSE Width 200us, Delay 0

Hi

Another fine set of theories blown away by real data :)

21.4 ns is a really weird number. It's roughly 46.7 MHz. That does not fit into *any* clock scheme I know of in the generator.

So off to a whole new theory ...

These guys play games with DDS stuff to get a better signal than they could otherwise. The DDS process generally has some sort of phase accumulator. For a sweep, you are constantly messing with that accumulator. I'd bet that you do some rounding in the process. The theory of the day: They sum up the round off error with a good level of accuracy. They put it in every 10 seconds. They got the sign on the number backwards ....

Bob (the guy who hasn't blown a simple math problem for ... errr ... hours).
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: markone on February 17, 2016, 01:53:58 am
They sum up the round off error with a good level of accuracy. They put it in every 10 seconds. They got the sign on the number backwards ....

A similar trick during fast sweeps does not make a lot of sense, i guess we are watching to a phase error accumulation / compensation from a PLL mechanism implemented inside the FPG, from which are derived the two channels master clocks.

I saw something similar in a erroneously implemented PLL, again inside a FPGA, that had the task to lock some ADCs data samples batches to power line cycle, so IMHO my bet is on that  :)   
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tsaG on February 18, 2016, 09:24:58 am
Hi,

I have a problem using the arbitrary function of this generator.

I created a waveform using the EasyWave software.

New -> ticked the SDG2000X box, set it to 8000 samples and 100Hz Frequency

I created this [1] Waveform and uploaded it to the generator. On picture [2] you can see the waveform on the oscilloscope. The odd thing is, that the oscilloscope picture looks exactly like the preview picture on the signal gen! Somehow it doesnt transfer or load the waveform correctly... Or did I do something wrong?

Im using Easywave 1.1.34. The Siglent is connected over Ethernet.

EDIT: I created a Sine wave in easywave, imported it into my signal gen which looks like [3]. Normally it should be +-7V. :-//

EDIT2: A readback of the Sine wave outputs the exact wave of the oscilloscope (and preview on the screen of the siglent) in easywave (see readback screenshot)

EDIT3: It doesnt work as well if I connect the Siglent using USB but it works like a charm if I import the csv file from easywave into the Signal gen. with a USB stick. So it looks like there is something wrong with the easywave transfer (?)

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: CustomEngineerer on February 20, 2016, 07:39:23 am
tsaG

I had the same issue when I first tried the EasyWave software. I tried sending a file named wave1 to channel 1. I tried to create another file, also named it wave1 and sent it to channel 1. The best I could tell it looked like it was combining the files to make 1 waveform, and just kept adding to it. I was about to give up on the EasyWave software since I didn't really need it at the time, but the next day I decided to try 1 more time. This time I used different names for each waveform file, and sent some to channel 2 and others to channel 1 and it worked like expected every time. I'm not really sure what caused it to start working correctly, but it has ever since. Now whenever I send a waveform to either channel, it always overwrites whatever is already on that channel, and displays exactly what it is supposed to.

Maybe try rebooting your generator, and trying different names for your waveform files (not suggesting you weren't doing this).
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Salas on February 21, 2016, 10:08:42 am
The fan in my unit started making a slight annoying buzzing noise, so I opened it up to see if I could manipulate the fan to get rid of the noise (which I was able to).

While I had it open I noticed it had the Siglent signature rust on the edges of some of the metalwork. It was only slight and am sure it won't be a problem but does show poor attention to detail.

Its not a bad quality fan but there could be less air cooling circulation noise in this generator (which mainly comes from the box working like a speaker cabinet)

I don't know if it is calculated for worse case scenario when installed in a rack as it is, but for home lab use maybe a Sunon fan (HA60251V4-999 looks good) with some 3V drop resistor inline could suffice for safe cooling and about half the final audibility. Maybe Siglent can advise us here about which is the max CPU sink's temperature for long term reliability?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: uncle_bob on February 21, 2016, 01:06:17 pm
The fan in my unit started making a slight annoying buzzing noise, so I opened it up to see if I could manipulate the fan to get rid of the noise (which I was able to).

While I had it open I noticed it had the Siglent signature rust on the edges of some of the metalwork. It was only slight and am sure it won't be a problem but does show poor attention to detail.

Its not a bad quality fan but there could be less air cooling circulation noise in this generator (which mainly comes from the box working like a speaker cabinet)

I don't know if it is calculated for worse case scenario when installed in a rack as it is, but for home lab use maybe a Sunon fan (HA60251V4-999 looks good) with some 3V drop resistor inline could suffice for safe cooling and about half the final audibility. Maybe Siglent can advise us here about which is the max CPU sink's temperature for long term reliability?

Hi

I'd bet the fan was picked on the basis of "this is what we stock for the other 20 instruments". Purchasing guys love that approach. The stock room guys love it as well.

If the heatsink is below 50C, it's a good bet that all is well. If it''s above 70C things may be ok, but life of the device is not what it might be. If it's over 90C, you need more air. All based on the "most chips / most places  / most ratings / most likely" guess. 


Bob
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: markone on February 21, 2016, 02:01:51 pm
The fan in my unit started making a slight annoying buzzing noise, so I opened it up to see if I could manipulate the fan to get rid of the noise (which I was able to).

While I had it open I noticed it had the Siglent signature rust on the edges of some of the metalwork. It was only slight and am sure it won't be a problem but does show poor attention to detail.

Its not a bad quality fan but there could be less air cooling circulation noise in this generator (which mainly comes from the box working like a speaker cabinet)

I don't know if it is calculated for worse case scenario when installed in a rack as it is, but for home lab use maybe a Sunon fan (HA60251V4-999 looks good) with some 3V drop resistor inline could suffice for safe cooling and about half the final audibility. Maybe Siglent can advise us here about which is the max CPU sink's temperature for long term reliability?

No (at least not yet) buzzing noise from mine generator's fan, i can hear a moderate air flux sound that maybe is one-tenth of the of DS1074Z's fan noise, so i can say i feel good with it.

What about the warranty sticker placed on the generator box ?
I guess we have to cut it to get access to instrument's fan and does not seem a smart move.

Anyway, talking about DC fans, i feel we have a very high unit to unit performance/quality variance, ie my original GW Instek scope's ADDA fan (60x60x25 too) is a piece of cra@p, dunno if  it's a fake device or actually ADDA make crap, i wonder why GW Instek uses this crap for its instruments, i swapped it with a 60x60x15 Sunon Maglev with surprisingly better result for 4 Euro 1 Pz street price.

GW Instek also made a mechanical design mistake putting the fan intake side too close to circuit metal shielding case (8-9mm) simply suffocating it, indeed the slimmer version i used leaves 5mm more air space and works waaay better.

Here Siglent seems to have done a much better job, at least with mine 2042X.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: markone on February 21, 2016, 02:19:50 pm
I'd bet the fan was picked on the basis of "this is what we stock for the other 20 instruments". Purchasing guys love that approach. The stock room guys love it as well.

I think the very same thing, and they are not alone.

Anyway it's a decent solution and looking at where the fan is placed in respect to CPU, its temps should lay on the low side, conversely the PSU is probably working with lower temp's margin.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: uncle_bob on February 21, 2016, 02:33:36 pm
Hi

There are an enormous number of fans out there. If you can get close to anything that gets used on a normal PC case ... dirt cheap is a typical price.

My preference would always be for a fan that does not need a dropping resistor. Dirt / dust / wear / crud tend to make the poor little motors start harder as time goes by. They actually put "stuff" in some to give it a startup boost and then cut back after it's running. A dropping resistor can degrade that performance. How common "chips in fans" are for non tach readout fans ... no idea.

Bob
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Salas on February 21, 2016, 04:22:34 pm
I find the 2042X fan and wind noise constantly noticeable and distracting in a quiet room when standing at 1m near. My DS2072 scope with a quieter medium quality Scythe fan emits 1/3 the generator's noise subjectively. The gen sounds more like the original 2072 noise level albeit with a bit less annoying lower pitch hum.

That Sunon Maglev is two wire like the stock 2042X fan and has significantly less nominal noise (13.8dBA vs 26dBA), still good CFM (13.8 or 0.391m3/min), while having a 60000 hours life spec @ 40C. I proposed using it at 9V via a 100 Ohm resistor because there is noise augmentation by the box so using it at its max will probably not bring as a drastic cut in sound level as expected by its dB spec. Voltage range is 4.5 ~ 13.8VDC so no problem starting at 9V. That Sunon can be found for about 5 Euro before shipment. Digikey 259-1618-ND. Typically best PC industry silent fans like Noiseblocker or Noctua will be much dearer.

About the sticker, maybe Siglent will be kind enough to let us know here if it will be safe we change the fan for the above spec without warranty loss
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: markone on February 21, 2016, 04:29:00 pm
My preference would always be for a fan that does not need a dropping resistor.

I agree and there is an additional reason to drive at full power the above mentioned Sunon HA60251V4-999, its static air pressure is already quite low, 0.04 inch-H2O / 1.02 mm-H2O and the fan is quite close to case exhaust holes pattern.

Anyway i would check PSU critical parts temp before to cut down case internal airflow.

Has anyone succeded in reading original fan's brand & P/N ?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Salas on February 21, 2016, 04:37:08 pm
PAAD16025SL 0.15A 12VDC. Visible in Dave's video. The question is does the gen need a really strong airflow in home lab use? Or is it just a cautionary measure.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: markone on February 21, 2016, 04:46:32 pm
My DS2072 scope with a quieter medium quality Scythe fan emits 1/3 the generator's noise subjectively. The gen sounds more like the original 2072 noise level albeit with a bit less annoying lower pitch hum.

Is it a Scythe Mini Kaze 60mm ?

I tried one inside mine GW-Instek SDS2072E in place of its shamefull ADDA, it's a fair device but i found Sunon Maglev even better also @ lower price.

In my case a lower depth fan (15mm instead of 20mm) worked a lot better for the reasons explained in a previous post, but that's not the case for the 2042X, where the fan is well placed inside the case box.

I'm quite picky about noise but i find my 2042X not boring at all, it's hugely less noiser than my DS1074Z, dunno how is the original DS2072.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Salas on February 21, 2016, 04:52:37 pm
Yes its the Mini Kaze 60mm as advised in a video and it worked very well for noise reduction but your Sunon slimmer solution seems even better as you described. So with your alike experience you can get the picture when I say that my 2042X is three times more audible than the DS2072 with the Mini Kaze.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: uncle_bob on February 21, 2016, 05:01:37 pm
PAAD16025SL 0.15A 12VDC. Visible in Dave's video. The question is does the gen need a really strong airflow in home lab use? Or is it just a cautionary measure.

Hi

Back in the "old days" an instrument was expected to survive some number of hours sitting in a fairly tight cardboard box and doing it's normal operations. It always looked a bit odd to see the boxes on a bench with the cables coming out of them.

Indeed this could have been specific to certain west coast US instrument outfits. I saw several of them doing it. It may be something that nobody does anymore with today's tightly packed gear.

Bob
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: markone on February 21, 2016, 05:12:36 pm
PAAD16025SL 0.15A 12VDC. Visible in Dave's video. The question is does the gen need a really strong airflow in home lab use? Or is it just a cautionary measure.

ok, just checked through 2042x's case holes, the few P/N letters that i can spot confirm this FAN model also for my generator.

If i put my hand nearby the fan exhaust i do not feel a strong airflow, i will define it as "normal" air flow and considering the PAAD16025SL static air pressure of 4mmH2O (from http://www.aavid.com/products/thermal-fans/paad16025sl-pf00 (http://www.aavid.com/products/thermal-fans/paad16025sl-pf00)) a device like the Sunon HA60251V4-999 with its mere 1mmH2O will be a steep weakening.

Anyway i'm hearing only airflow noise and no fan's motor/bearing vibrations.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Salas on February 21, 2016, 05:15:48 pm
PAAD16025SL 0.15A 12VDC. Visible in Dave's video. The question is does the gen need a really strong airflow in home lab use? Or is it just a cautionary measure.

Hi

Back in the "old days" an instrument was expected to survive some number of hours sitting in a fairly tight cardboard box and doing it's normal operations. It always looked a bit odd to see the boxes on a bench with the cables coming out of them.

Indeed this could have been specific to certain west coast US instrument outfits. I saw several of them doing it. It may be something that nobody does anymore with today's tightly packed gear.

Bob

Hi

This gen is roomy inside for unoccupied space and I didn't see any particularly suspect for high dissipation components in the tear down video, maybe it could survive without a fan at all in winter time and a moderate breeze could keep it safe all around the year with medium use but not comfortable about trusting my hunch, better we had some numbers about the CPU's sink temp max allowed for long term reliability at least.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Salas on February 21, 2016, 05:24:24 pm
PAAD16025SL 0.15A 12VDC. Visible in Dave's video. The question is does the gen need a really strong airflow in home lab use? Or is it just a cautionary measure.

ok, just checked through 2042x's case holes, the few P/N letters that i can spot confirm this FAN model also for my generator.

If i put my hand nearby the fan exhaust i do not feel a strong airflow, i will define it as "normal" air flow and considering the PAAD16025SL static air pressure of 4mmH2O (from http://www.aavid.com/products/thermal-fans/paad16025sl-pf00 (http://www.aavid.com/products/thermal-fans/paad16025sl-pf00)) a device like the Sunon HA60251V4-999 with its mere 1mmH2O will be a steep weakening.

Anyway i'm hearing only airflow noise and no fan's motor/bearing vibrations.

Although near in CFM there is a pressure spec difference indeed. Maybe measuring the temp on that exit after an hour with both channels working will be an indication of how far less we can go.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: markone on February 21, 2016, 06:09:39 pm
Although near in CFM there is a pressure spec difference indeed. Maybe measuring the temp on that exit after an hour with both channels working will be an indication of how far less we can go.

I have about 21W / 34VA of inlet power @ 230V with both channels set to 10Mhz & 10Vpp sine wave, for what is worth the  exhaust air is at 29°C while room temp is 21°C, IMHO not a good indicator if it is taken as a unique factor. 
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Salas on February 21, 2016, 06:14:54 pm
The fan in my unit started making a slight annoying buzzing noise, so I opened it up to see if I could manipulate the fan to get rid of the noise (which I was able to).

While I had it open I noticed it had the Siglent signature rust on the edges of some of the metalwork. It was only slight and am sure it won't be a problem but does show poor attention to detail.

Its not a bad quality fan but there could be less air cooling circulation noise in this generator (which mainly comes from the box working like a speaker cabinet)

I don't know if it is calculated for worse case scenario when installed in a rack as it is, but for home lab use maybe a Sunon fan (HA60251V4-999 looks good) with some 3V drop resistor inline could suffice for safe cooling and about half the final audibility. Maybe Siglent can advise us here about which is the max CPU sink's temperature for long term reliability?

Hi

I'd bet the fan was picked on the basis of "this is what we stock for the other 20 instruments". Purchasing guys love that approach. The stock room guys love it as well.

If the heatsink is below 50C, it's a good bet that all is well. If it''s above 70C things may be ok, but life of the device is not what it might be. If it's over 90C, you need more air. All based on the "most chips / most places  / most ratings / most likely" guess. 


Bob

You have a most reasonable approach. If we will not have an official answer about temps, keeping the CPU sink between 50C - 55C would be a good rule of thumb for the sticker braking noise haters among us.  :-+
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Salas on February 21, 2016, 06:20:26 pm
Although near in CFM there is a pressure spec difference indeed. Maybe measuring the temp on that exit after an hour with both channels working will be an indication of how far less we can go.

I have about 21W / 34VA of inlet power @ 230V with both channels set to 10Mhz & 10Vpp sine wave, for what is worth the  exhaust air is at 29°C while room temp is 21°C, IMHO not a good indicator if it is taken as a unique factor.

Hmm... 8C above room ambient. Say you will not do lab work in a non air conditioned room above 28C and we go to 36C airflow exit temp. They would normally design for no more than 45C in-box ambient. It takes to probe on the CPU sink when testing a lower air flow so to be thorough.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Macman on February 21, 2016, 07:15:18 pm
The warranty sticker can be removed in the same way as is done with the Rigol stickers. I unstuck one side and bent it over and taped a piece of label backing over it so it could be reattach if needed. If you decide to detach the sticker don't rush it, mine was stuck quite well and took about 20 minutes of gentle persuasion.
The fan noise in mine is now quite acceptable to me and is just the air flow noise. I took it apart to sort out a buzzing noise that the fan started making.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: markone on February 21, 2016, 08:12:44 pm
Hmm... 8C above room ambient. Say you will not do lab work in a non air conditioned room above 28C and we go to 36C airflow exit temp. They would normally design for no more than 45C in-box ambient. It takes to probe on the CPU sink when testing a lower air flow so to be thorough.

This room can easily reach 35°C Tamb in summer time without air conditioning, as actually did last year.

Anyway i would be more concerned for PSU and output stages than CPU device, actually it sits well served nearby the fan.

My ridiculously noisy old glory DS1022CD's (first series with 50mm fan) PSU reached gorgeus temp in some points (first place the 3.3V line's LM317 heatsink, well over 75 °C) while the exit air temp was absolutely not worrying, just because the case thermal design was completely wrong and the fan was not gathering air from right places.

A brutal FAN mod (see picture) reduced dramatically both noise & temp to an extent hard to believe, of course out of warranty time.

Recently i swapped the first 80mm fan with a "dimmed" ARCTIC F8 with even better result, i can ear only a smooth air sound.     

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=202931;image)

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: markone on February 21, 2016, 08:25:59 pm
... but your Sunon slimmer solution seems even better as you described.

yes, but only in that peculiar situation (metal shielding very close to fan intake), otherwise deeper fan are always better.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Salas on February 21, 2016, 08:41:23 pm
Hmm... 8C above room ambient. Say you will not do lab work in a non air conditioned room above 28C and we go to 36C airflow exit temp. They would normally design for no more than 45C in-box ambient. It takes to probe on the CPU sink when testing a lower air flow so to be thorough.

This room can easily reach 35°C Tamb in summer time without air conditioning, as actually did last year.

Anyway i would be more concerned for PSU and output stages than CPU device, actually it sits well served nearby the fan.

My ridiculously noisy old glory DS1022CD's (first series with 50mm fan) PSU reached gorgeus temp in some points (first place the 3.3V line's LM317 heatsink, well over 75 °C) while the exit air temp was absolutely not worrying, just because the case thermal design was completely wrong and the fan was not gathering air from right places.

A brutal FAN mod (see picture) reduced dramatically both noise & temp to an extent hard to believe, of course out of warranty time.

Recently i swapped the first 80mm fan with a "dimmed" ARCTIC F8 with even better result, i can ear only a smooth air sound.     

Same Arctic fan that I have used in my Korad PSU. Although much better than stock for normal operational noise, that PSU has an idle RPM choppy pulse drive that makes it sound like a coffee grinder with suicidal tendencies when no more than 100mA current is drawn to a load so to rev it up a little. I had used a Gelid in my older DS1052E (100MHZ mod). That one was an unbearable screamer to me, had to do something about it... I basically have to change a fan every time I buy an instrument. This is becoming ridiculous. Only my Siglent PSU was nice out of the box. I wonder if all the manufacturers will ever grow up and understand that poor noise design is detrimental to a brand's quality ranking? Many times its not only the fan itself but its the positioning and the flow. Rohde & Schwarz did it right in their small scope. Better they follow them. If they even manage 50% worse than R&D they will be successful enough.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: markone on February 21, 2016, 10:10:01 pm
Same Arctic fan that I have used in my Korad PSU. Although much better than stock for normal operational noise, that PSU has an idle RPM choppy pulse drive that makes it sound like a coffee grinder with suicidal tendencies when no more than 100mA current is drawn to a load so to rev it up a little. I had used a Gelid in my older DS1052E (100MHZ mod). That one was an unbearable screamer to me, had to do something about it... I basically have to change a fan every time I buy an instrument. This is becoming ridiculous. Only my Siglent PSU was nice out of the box. I wonder if all the manufacturers will ever grow up and understand that poor noise design is detrimental to a brand's quality ranking? Many times its not only the fan itself but its the positioning and the flow. Rohde & Schwarz did it right in their small scope. Better they follow them. If they even manage 50% worse than R&D they will be successful enough.

I agree with everything you say, my last instrument purchase, the SDS2072E, can only further confirm all this complaining with its piece of cr@p fan, pathetically placed in a questionable overall thermal design, that provides lot of boring noise for ridiculously small air flow in a very limited case section.

Adding this to the weirdest feeling knob encoders ever seen in a scope (come on GW), a lot worse than my ATTEN ADS1102CAL's ones, leads me to think that in this brand some design compartments are missing their targets, while other are working very good, creating the harsh contrast between good performances and so so build quality details here and there.

This Siglent generator seems a fair device, but i still have to see the rust inside ;)

Next time someone put his hands inside, please consider to take some pictures to nasty details ...
PS :dunno what version of Korad PSU are you playing with, time ago i considered them but after some youtube watching they seemed to be quite a crapfest, am i wrong ?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Salas on February 22, 2016, 01:56:57 am
Its the 3A version of the small single output one that Dave had burned and they revised it to good. Mine is Tenma branded. Crap for general criteria construction quality but fair at the dirt cheap price. They also have a very good intuitive digital user interface and satisfying read out accuracy. The internal loop's speed is no good for high current  pulse or sinewave draw. It will ripple high if you will connect for a power test a class A/B amp drawing a couple of amps at 1kHz I mean. Adept, small, and reliable for general tasks though.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: markone on February 22, 2016, 07:44:27 pm
Its the 3A version of the small single output one that Dave had burned and they revised it to good. Mine is Tenma branded. Crap for general criteria construction quality but fair at the dirt cheap price. They also have a very good intuitive digital user interface and satisfying read out accuracy. The internal loop's speed is no good for high current  pulse or sinewave draw. It will ripple high if you will connect for a power test a class A/B amp drawing a couple of amps at 1kHz I mean. Adept, small, and reliable for general tasks though.

Many thanks for the clear explanation, what you describe is exactly what i was fearing to :-)

I cannot forget the ugly R2R DAC inside spotted on Dave's tear down video, it seems from the soviet era, that circuit solution casts doubt on all the rest, to say the least.

I am a little biased toward these things after the HDG2002B purchase's mistake (what a crap !) but i know quite well that at the end of these stories i usually go for a decent device and the initial expense (for the crap) becomes a total loss.

If you keep in account time and materials to clean up the worst and the fact that you never completely trust it,
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Salas on February 22, 2016, 08:50:18 pm
Get an Aim-TTi lab PSU if you can push your budget
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: markone on February 22, 2016, 11:56:23 pm
Get an Aim-TTi lab PSU if you can push your budget

Aim-TTI PSUs are actually quite expensive,  i was thinking more to something like ISO-TECH IPS-3303D, 300E plus taxes.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: ac122 on February 24, 2016, 01:38:02 am
"Seems that the frequency counter leaks a 10 MHz signal to it's input."

We did identify a cross-talk issue that is causing this leakage to the frequency counter port. The factory tells me they are working on the problem.

Thanks for your comments.

Any information about fix for this?, I would assume this is an hardware issue and thus will only be fixed on newer units?
From which serialnumbers will this be fixed?


Hi

Equally on the same topic:

Assuming it is a hardware fix (it's the ribbon cable from the back panel ... ) what happens with in warranty existing generators? Will they be updated / upgraded / fixed?

Yes, it is a bit early to start digging into this. Right now, it might not matter to most. To the few who might be about to cancel an order for one, it could matter quite a bit :)

Bob


I was in the process of ordering one in early January and saw this post / issue.
So I have been holding off and waiting for a response / fix.
It seems that this might require more than a software update and would like to hear about the solution.
Obviously my preference is not buying a device with the problem.

So I decided to raise the issue once more for an update.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: dougg on February 24, 2016, 08:58:06 pm
After upgrading to 2.01.01.17R5 firmware the problem with the count input injecting (odd) multiples of 10 MHz seems unchanged. For the measurements below I simply treated the count BNC as an output and fed it into my Rigol DS2202 (time domain) and DSA815 (frequency domain). The SDG2042X was set to output a DC waveform with 0 Volts offset. So the count "input" is outputting a 10 MHz square wave with a hell of a lot of ringing, with a Vrms of 44.85 mV. I set the SA to Volts on the y axis (rather than the default dBm). The harmonics drop off above 350 Mhz.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Salas on February 25, 2016, 07:34:51 am
Get an Aim-TTi lab PSU if you can push your budget

Aim-TTI PSUs are actually quite expensive,  i was thinking more to something like ISO-TECH IPS-3303D, 300E plus taxes.

Looks like a good choice for the money. Its a popular GW Instek theme. The same core motif can be found in the Siglent PSU series.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: markone on February 25, 2016, 07:47:41 am
Actually the new SPD3303C it's even cheaper, 239 plus taxes, but i did not found yet a tear down.
Let's say that regarding bench PSU i prefer old styled led seven segment readout than more fancy , but also dispersive, TFT panel.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Salas on February 25, 2016, 08:42:07 am
The Iso-tech looks like having better binding posts as well as sticking to the GW Instek more faithfully for a more direct user interface having two dials and discrete memory buttons.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: mongo on February 26, 2016, 05:15:14 am
FYI, if any of you have had issues with usbtmc on these units I may have filed a bug report that should be enough for them to fix the issue.  It appears that they are not honoring the 64byte bulk transfer size limit of their usb gadget driver so you have to hit the stack multiple times.  We are "lucky" enough that the ethernet interface provides root level access with zero passwords and they have debugfs mounted.

That noted with this insanely bad security hole open, I would highly recommend never attaching this device to any network. 

That said I am fairly happy with the device and the format for the arb .bin files is pretty easy to work with.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Cervisia on February 29, 2016, 10:25:58 am
Quote
if any of you have had issues with usbtmc on these units
Are you talking about the Linux driver?

Quote
It appears that they are not honoring the 64byte bulk transfer size limit
This is unlikely; USBTMC transfers happen on a different abstraction level than USB transfers.
Could you please share your bug report?
Title: Sinewave signal quality
Post by: Timpert on March 03, 2016, 04:55:54 pm
I was wondering, has anyone actually checked the quality of the sinewave (harmonic distortion, spurious output) beyond the amplitude at which it is specified (0 dBm or 223 mV in 50 Ohms). How does the thing behave when it is cranked up to the max?

Edit: I have to add the word "quantify". Like assess harmonics on a spectrum analyzer.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: mongo on March 03, 2016, 10:33:47 pm
While I don't have a  spectrum analyzer the FFT shows no major harmonics on my little agilent dsox2012a.  I am working on an AM radio today pushing 7.1V peak to peak and it is quite happy at low frequencies, I have attached an ugly pic on when I was trying to get it to sync to the built in generator on the dsox2012a, while this is ugly with jitter the yellow line is at 8MHz and pretty much maxed out.


Obviously if you look at this pic you will realize I wasn't too serious about measuring but it is pretty good.  Hopefully someone with better tools will respond but I am quite happy with it.  You should temper that with the understanding that I just replaced a HP 3311A with this device.  I did beak out the HP because I thought that I had forgotten how to do FFT and it was a lot worse.  This unit is as good as I would expect a 16-bit unit to be.  I have been using it as a DC source, mostly because my bigger supplies have loud fans and I can't see anything out of the normal environmental noise on my Keithley 2100 DMM.

Outside of some software issues, which I think they will fix and which do not hurt my use case, the main limiter of this unit is accurate time.  I have been shopping for parts to build a 10 MHz OCXO-based GPS disciplined oscillator but that won't fix the issues with my low end scope unless I am missing an menu some place.

Note above that this was not a serious test, and that I was actually testing the jitter on my dsox2012a.


(http://s22.postimg.org/3spp7v56p/Screen_Shot_2016_03_03_at_2_04_40_PM.png)
Title: Re: Sinewave signal quality
Post by: uncle_bob on March 04, 2016, 12:22:03 am
I was wondering, has anyone actually checked the quality of the sinewave (harmonic distortion, spurious output) beyond the amplitude at which it is specified (0 dBm or 223 mV in 50 Ohms). How does the thing behave when it is cranked up to the max?

Edit: I have to add the word "quantify". Like assess harmonics on a spectrum analyzer.

Hi

Like a lot of signal generators (but not an old style function generator. This guy has a set of attenuators in it. As you crank the level, you can hear the relays going click click click every 6 db or so. Because of that, I doubt there is a lot of difference between 0 dbm and "near max out" sort of levels. It's running over the same (full out to ~ half max voltage) range again and again. The attenuators simply drop things down as you reduce the level.

Bob
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: smgvbest on March 04, 2016, 08:42:13 pm
I'm still learning the use of a SA so hopefully I did these correctly
Siglent at 120Mhz, 5vpp max out output

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: markone on March 04, 2016, 09:21:40 pm
I'm still learning the use of a SA so hopefully I did these correctly
Siglent at 120Mhz, 5vpp max out output

I would use much lower RBW values, for instance :

- full span sweep (1.5Ghz ?) with 10Khz RBW
- 100 Khz span sweep with 100Hz RBW
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bson on March 05, 2016, 04:25:23 am
Sitting here with a brand new 2122X on the bench - nice little generator.  Updated it to the latest firmware (#17).

I do have a bit of a firmware dislike... it doesn't remember that it's set to use an external 10MHz reference across power cycles even if set to use the last settings at power on.  Not only does it ignore the external clock, but it merrily outputs its own internal timebase onto the cable and fights with my GPSDO!  Plus the 53131A counter alarms about the timebase being changed, and my VNA doesn't like it.  So I unplug the cable from the 2122X after powering off.  The only problem is I can't set it to use the external reference without plugging the cable in, and when I do the instrument outputs its own clock until I can toggle it using the front panel.  It's also not possible to tell it to use the external reference before plugging it in.

Anyway, my suggestion would be:

1. Remember the setting...
2. Even better, auto-detect on power-up or before enabling the clock output to make sure there isn't already a clock source on the cable and use the external timebase if enabled
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on March 05, 2016, 05:38:18 am
Sitting here with a brand new 2122X on the bench - nice little generator.  Updated it to the latest firmware (#17).

I do have a bit of a firmware dislike... it doesn't remember that it's set to use an external 10MHz reference across power cycles even if set to use the last settings at power on.  Not only does it ignore the external clock, but it merrily outputs its own internal timebase onto the cable and fights with my GPSDO!  Plus the 53131A counter alarms about the timebase being changed, and my VNA doesn't like it.  So I unplug the cable from the 2122X after powering off.  The only problem is I can't set it to use the external reference without plugging the cable in, and when I do the instrument outputs its own clock until I can toggle it using the front panel.  It's also not possible to tell it to use the external reference before plugging it in.

Anyway, my suggestion would be:

1. Remember the setting...
2. Even better, auto-detect on power-up or before enabling the clock output to make sure there isn't already a clock source on the cable and use the external timebase if enabled

Good ideas, I pass them on to R&D.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: uncle_bob on March 05, 2016, 03:09:07 pm
Sitting here with a brand new 2122X on the bench - nice little generator.  Updated it to the latest firmware (#17).

I do have a bit of a firmware dislike... it doesn't remember that it's set to use an external 10MHz reference across power cycles even if set to use the last settings at power on.  Not only does it ignore the external clock, but it merrily outputs its own internal timebase onto the cable and fights with my GPSDO!  Plus the 53131A counter alarms about the timebase being changed, and my VNA doesn't like it.  So I unplug the cable from the 2122X after powering off.  The only problem is I can't set it to use the external reference without plugging the cable in, and when I do the instrument outputs its own clock until I can toggle it using the front panel.  It's also not possible to tell it to use the external reference before plugging it in.

Anyway, my suggestion would be:

1. Remember the setting...
2. Even better, auto-detect on power-up or before enabling the clock output to make sure there isn't already a clock source on the cable and use the external timebase if enabled

Hi

That does make the generator totally useless with an external standard doesn't it?

The default should be "nothing out the back". Just have it sit there waiting to be told what to do if it can't remember what the last state was. An enabled output is a "really bad thing" even or a not external ref in situation. You now have one more spurious signal crawling all over your bench.

Bob
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bson on March 05, 2016, 09:46:51 pm
That does make the generator totally useless with an external standard doesn't it?
Actually, it does.  I considered plugging it into a Symmetricom distribution tap, but those are pretty beefy; they won't be harmed by the Siglent, but the Siglent could possibly be damaged if it uses a basic push-pull driver.  If the tap pushes when the Siglent pulls I doubt the tap will too inclined to droop... it'll perhaps just source a few amps into the Siglent during that portion of the phases aligning badly.

Quote
The default should be "nothing out the back". Just have it sit there waiting to be told what to do if it can't remember what the last state was. An enabled output is a "really bad thing" even or a not external ref in situation. You now have one more spurious signal crawling all over your bench.
Agree.  The best would be able to turn it off altogether.  And remember this setting across power cycles. :)  Or if it can't be remembered, default to it shutting off on power cycle so it needs to be explicitly reenabled.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bson on March 06, 2016, 01:57:19 am
And, just because I could... using a VNA as an SA. :)

2122X set to 24.576132MHz using internal timebase
-20dBm output level
The spec says -55dBc spectral purity at this frequency.  I was skeptical this would truly be relative to the carrier (dBc) and thought they might mean relative to peak output (5Vpp).

Good old VNA set to 100Hz span centered on 24.576135MHz (just the peak the marker found at RBW=10, set to center)
100Hz span
1Hz RBW
40 sec sweep (!!!)
10dB/div V
10Hz/div H

This instrument is not the most agile at such a narrow span and 1Hz RBW... kind of pushing it.
It reports a peak at 24576133.5... My 53131A counter indicates it's 24576132.45Hz, so the VNA is off just a smidgeon over 1 full sweep step.

But... looks like the 2122X handily passes the spec of -55dBc for 20-40MHz.

Didn't grab a shot at RBW 10Hz, but it looks very similar, just tighter and more evenly stepped.

(http://www.rockgarden.net/download/eevblog/2122x_peak.jpg)

EDIT - here's a better one with a 100sec sweep time (4 sweeps averaged); for some reason the 3577A didn't like a 100sec sweep time until it was fully warmed up.  Checking with the marker, -55dBc intersects at 5.5Hz on the high side and 6Hz on the low side.

(http://www.rockgarden.net/download/eevblog/2122x_peak2.jpg)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: uncle_bob on March 06, 2016, 02:04:46 am
And, just because I could... using a VNA as an SA. :)

2122X set to 24.576132MHz using internal timebase
-20dBm output level
The spec says -55dBc spectral purity at this frequency.  I was skeptical this would truly be relative to the carrier (dBc) and thought they might mean relative to peak output (5Vpp).

Good old VNA set to 100Hz span centered on 24.576135MHz (just the peak the marker found at RBW=10, set to center)
100Hz span
1Hz RBW
40 sec sweep (!!!)
10dB/div V
10Hz/div H

This instrument is not the most agile at such a narrow span and 1Hz RBW... kind of pushing it.
It reports a peak at 24576133.5... My 53131A counter indicates it's 24576132.45Hz, so the VNA is off just a smidgeon over 1 full sweep step.

But... looks like the 2122X handily passes the spec of -55dBc for 20-40MHz.

Didn't grab a shot at RBW 10Hz, but it looks very similar, just tighter and more evenly stepped.

(http://www.rockgarden.net/download/eevblog/2122x_peak.jpg)

Hi

Based on the fact that they have a proper attenuator in the instrument that's not a real surprising outcome. Once you hit the floor of the attenuator (1 mv out if I remember correctly) then indeed your signal to noise in dbc is going to degrade as power drops. Simple answer ... get a couple of 20 db external coaxial pads and use them below 1 mv.

At some point the leakage from a simple box instrument is going to wipe you out on low signal level stuff. A generator that is legit at -127 dbm out has a lot more shielding in it than this guy does. It also costs ... a bit ... more. It's also quite a bit bigger and heavier. Last time I broke one, the repair charge would have bought a skid full of these little guys.

Hint: Relay based attenuators don't like it when you switch power once a second for a month.....

Bob
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bson on March 06, 2016, 02:40:37 am
Based on the fact that they have a proper attenuator in the instrument that's not a real surprising outcome. Once you hit the floor of the attenuator (1 mv out if I remember correctly) then indeed your signal to noise in dbc is going to degrade as power drops. Simple answer ... get a couple of 20 db external coaxial pads and use them below 1 mv.
Ah, so that's why there's clicking when you change levels...
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: mojoe on March 06, 2016, 07:10:20 am
Sitting here with a brand new 2122X on the bench - nice little generator.  Updated it to the latest firmware (#17).

I do have a bit of a firmware dislike... it doesn't remember that it's set to use an external 10MHz reference across power cycles even if set to use the last settings at power on.  Not only does it ignore the external clock, but it merrily outputs its own internal timebase onto the cable and fights with my GPSDO!  Plus the 53131A counter alarms about the timebase being changed, and my VNA doesn't like it.  So I unplug the cable from the 2122X after powering off.  The only problem is I can't set it to use the external reference without plugging the cable in, and when I do the instrument outputs its own clock until I can toggle it using the front panel.  It's also not possible to tell it to use the external reference before plugging it in.

Anyway, my suggestion would be:

1. Remember the setting...
2. Even better, auto-detect on power-up or before enabling the clock output to make sure there isn't already a clock source on the cable and use the external timebase if enabled

Good ideas, I pass them on to R&D.

I vote for number 2. That is the way a lot of high dollar gear does it. If there is an external reference plugged in, use it. If not, switch on the internal reference. This is easy and won't damage anything.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bson on March 06, 2016, 10:35:04 pm
I vote for number 2. That is the way a lot of high dollar gear does it. If there is an external reference plugged in, use it. If not, switch on the internal reference. This is easy and won't damage anything.
Yeah, #2 is the better choice - more specifically, use the external reference if plugged in otherwise use the internal and don't ever output anything on the port until asked to.

However, this may not be so simple from a firmware perspective; it may not be practical to continuously poll to check if there's an external reference and may require switching the internal clock PLL to it to see if lock can be acquired - which would disrupt ongoing waveform generation.  If this is the case, then I'd be fine with it being done automatically at startup only; recabling the bench and changing out the extref source is fine to require a power cycle or manual reconfig, it's so rare anyway.  In my case, at least.  But in this case there's not much use doing anything automatically - just allow it to be set and remember it.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bson on March 06, 2016, 10:39:53 pm
Oh, and also: as a safety precaution, before enabling the output check to see if there's already a signal on the port.  If so, alert to it and refuse to enable the output.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: uncle_bob on March 07, 2016, 12:01:33 am
I vote for number 2. That is the way a lot of high dollar gear does it. If there is an external reference plugged in, use it. If not, switch on the internal reference. This is easy and won't damage anything.
Yeah, #2 is the better choice - more specifically, use the external reference if plugged in otherwise use the internal and don't ever output anything on the port until asked to.

However, this may not be so simple from a firmware perspective; it may not be practical to continuously poll to check if there's an external reference and may require switching the internal clock PLL to it to see if lock can be acquired - which would disrupt ongoing waveform generation.  If this is the case, then I'd be fine with it being done automatically at startup only; recabling the bench and changing out the extref source is fine to require a power cycle or manual reconfig, it's so rare anyway.  In my case, at least.  But in this case there's not much use doing anything automatically - just allow it to be set and remember it.


Hi

The last thing in the world you want is an instrument that randomly switches from internal to external standard based on some guess it is making. The only *safe* way to do it:

1) If it's set to external reference, check for the ref. If it is not there toss up a great big error message and stop.

2) If it's set to internal reference, don't check for any external device. Also don't put anything out the ref input.

3) If a ref output is desired, enable that independently of the internal ref setting. That way you can run the box without it being a spur monster.

4) If the box is running in default mode, make that internal ref / no external output.

If indeed you wish to provide some sort of auto sensing / auto switching / grab anything / do anything setup ... make that a distinct option after you get the "normal" stuff working as it should.

Why do it this way? If this is being used as a traceable signal source, in about 99% of the cases, it will have an external reference. If that ref goes away, you need to know about it right now. Back in the "good old days" epoxy was used on switches to force this to happen ....

Bob
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on March 07, 2016, 07:00:44 am
I vote for number 2. That is the way a lot of high dollar gear does it. If there is an external reference plugged in, use it. If not, switch on the internal reference. This is easy and won't damage anything.
Yeah, #2 is the better choice - more specifically, use the external reference if plugged in otherwise use the internal and don't ever output anything on the port until asked to.

However, this may not be so simple from a firmware perspective; it may not be practical to continuously poll to check if there's an external reference and may require switching the internal clock PLL to it to see if lock can be acquired - which would disrupt ongoing waveform generation.  If this is the case, then I'd be fine with it being done automatically at startup only; recabling the bench and changing out the extref source is fine to require a power cycle or manual reconfig, it's so rare anyway.  In my case, at least.  But in this case there's not much use doing anything automatically - just allow it to be set and remember it.


Hi

The last thing in the world you want is an instrument that randomly switches from internal to external standard based on some guess it is making. The only *safe* way to do it:

1) If it's set to external reference, check for the ref. If it is not there toss up a great big error message and stop.

2) If it's set to internal reference, don't check for any external device. Also don't put anything out the ref input.

3) If a ref output is desired, enable that independently of the internal ref setting. That way you can run the box without it being a spur monster.

4) If the box is running in default mode, make that internal ref / no external output.

If indeed you wish to provide some sort of auto sensing / auto switching / grab anything / do anything setup ... make that a distinct option after you get the "normal" stuff working as it should.

Why do it this way? If this is being used as a traceable signal source, in about 99% of the cases, it will have an external reference. If that ref goes away, you need to know about it right now. Back in the "good old days" epoxy was used on switches to force this to happen ....

Bob
Bob, from Siglent tech support:
Yes, this idea is good, our R&D will get to know this.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bson on March 07, 2016, 08:12:30 am
Bob, from Siglent tech support:
Yes, this idea is good, our R&D will get to know this.
Awesome - thanks!!!  :-+
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: mojoe on March 07, 2016, 05:10:09 pm
I didn't mean for the siggen to switch references on the fly. Only at startup, as recommended in the post I was replying to.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: uncle_bob on March 07, 2016, 11:13:58 pm
I didn't mean for the siggen to switch references on the fly. Only at startup, as recommended in the post I was replying to.

Hi

The lights go blink, the generator either does or does not reboot. The chain that feeds the external standard either does or does not reboot. Which one gets running first? Who knows ...It's also a problem on benches that have chained standards or a local distribution amplifier. You power up the whole bench at once. What happens? Again, it's only a guess as to what gets going first.

Bob
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: pxl on March 25, 2016, 08:02:51 pm
Guys, has anyone actually replaced the fan? Any experiences? Can you make scrambled eggs on it after the replacement? :)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on March 25, 2016, 08:09:31 pm
Guys, has anyone actually replaced the fan? Any experiences? Can you make scrambled eggs on it after the replacement? :)
What's the problem with the fan, noise?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: pxl on March 25, 2016, 08:31:14 pm
Guys, has anyone actually replaced the fan? Any experiences? Can you make scrambled eggs on it after the replacement? :)
What's the problem with the fan, noise?

Yes, it is definitely loud. No resonations, no bearing noise, it is just the normal airflow and with usual background noise/music it's not bad at all. But in a silent room it is loud. I will replace/slow down/temp control that fan in future in any case, just interested in with the experiences.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on March 25, 2016, 08:57:45 pm
Guys, has anyone actually replaced the fan? Any experiences? Can you make scrambled eggs on it after the replacement? :)
What's the problem with the fan, noise?

Yes, it is definitely loud. No resonations, no bearing noise, it is just the normal airflow and with usual background noise/music it's not bad at all. But in a silent room it is loud. I will replace/slow down/temp control that fan in future in any case, just interested in with the experiences.
Hmm, I'll check one from my new stock that's just arrived.

Do you have other equipment to compare it with so to give us an idea of noise level?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: pxl on March 25, 2016, 09:18:06 pm
It uses the same fan PAAD16025SL PF00, and actually I don't think that anything wrong with this unit. It's just I have no other device with fan :)

Anyway, for the first look the build quality is very good. It is easily par on my HMO1002, and the BNC outputs, the rotary switch are actually much better than my scope's, so it is pretty amazing. After an hour usage it is pretty cold, so I am sure there is some room for thermal optimisation in this unit. I will get an IR thermometer/FLIR and will measure the temps in it.

The firmware is 2.01.01.16R2.

However I set the beeper off (I like the silent :)), but it forgets after switch off :/
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on March 25, 2016, 09:33:33 pm
It uses the same fan PAAD16025SL PF00, and actually I don't think that anything wrong with this unit. It's just I have no other device with fan :)

Anyway, for the first look the build quality is very good. It is easily par on my HMO1002, and the BNC outputs, the rotary switch are actually much better than my scope's, so it is pretty amazing. After an hour usage it is pretty cold, so I am sure there is some room for thermal optimisation in this unit. I will get an IR thermometer/FLIR and will measure the temps in it.

The firmware is 2.01.01.16R2.

However I set the beeper off (I like the silent :)), but it forgets after switch off :/
Latest FW is 17R5:
http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDG2000X-P17R5.rar (http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDG2000X-P17R5.rar)

You'd be better to check internal temps after running under some load into a 50 Ohm load, just powered on producing a low amplitude output into a high impedance load is unlikely to increase internal temps.

Yep, while the fan's not loud it a quite room you can hear it and if none of your gear has fans I now understand your comments.  ;)

My workstation has at least a PC running all the time so some additional noise would't bother me.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: pxl on March 25, 2016, 10:00:42 pm
Comparing to my HMO's build in func. gen (10kHz, 4V), the siglent is slightly better, just a tiny bit:
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: markone on March 25, 2016, 10:35:37 pm
Comparing to my HMO's build in func. gen (10kHz, 4V), the siglent is slightly better, just a tiny bit:

Quite a pointless comparison, 10Khz sine wave from a 50Khz generator against a 120Mhz one ... if you need clean signal at audio freq use a quality sound card, it wiil draw circles around both.

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: pxl on March 25, 2016, 11:31:18 pm
I know I pushed the limits to much on this already low spec'd func. gen :D
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: treecatt on April 02, 2016, 02:39:41 am
I recently purchased a SDG2042X and just upgraded the firmware to v17R5. After upgrading the firmware I finally got around to setting up the EasyWave software and got it communicating with the 2042X. I created a new waveform in EasyWave that produces two pulses every 16.67 msec. Each pulse is 450 usec in width. The 2nd pulse occurs 2.78 msec after the first pulse occurs. Amplitude is 3.3V with a 1.65V offset (i.e. 0V to 3.3V logic pulses at output ideally). When I send the waveform to the SDG2042X the phase shift gets set to 1.65° but all other settings appear good. When I press recall I see a .bin file on the internal C: drive.

Now I turn off the unit then power it back up. After booting the settings are 1KHz and 4 Vpp with a sine wave in the graphic area to the left. After I recall the .bin file from the internal C: drive the graphic changes to the waveform I created and uploaded but the parameters remain at 1KHz and 4 Vpp. Perhaps I have a misconception but shouldn't the parameters be updated to values from the .bin file as well?

In addition, when I click on the "Read wave" button and select USBTMC connection type the SDG2042X is shown but the wave list is always empty.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: CustomEngineerer on April 02, 2016, 03:15:54 am
I believe Read Wave is for pulling the signal from a scope. Like if you have a Siglent scope (not sure if it has to be a Siglent scope, would think it shouldn't, but it won't read the waveform from my Rigol scope) that has captured a waveform, you can connect to it and read the captured waveform from the oscilloscope into the Easywave program. Then you could send that waveform to your generator to have it produce the same waveform. Don't quote me on that, but that was my understanding of how it should work.

Edit: Ignore the above, checking in the EasyWave_Help_En help document proves that I have no idea what I'm talking about. Sorry for the bad info.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Steps on April 12, 2016, 01:49:04 pm
Can anybody tell me what should I choose: SDG1050 or SDG2042X? Same price for the moment, but SDG2042X looks like more "modern" and fancy. :o What is the main difference? Comparing MSa vs GSa, etc.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: alank2 on April 12, 2016, 02:12:51 pm
I would say the SDG2042X for sure.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: mongo on April 12, 2016, 02:33:46 pm
Can anybody tell me what should I choose: SDG1050 or SDG2042X? Same price for the moment, but SDG2042X looks like more "modern" and fancy. :o What is the main difference? Comparing MSa vs GSa, etc.

The SDG2042X has more bits, lower jitter and way more Sa/s, IMHO the SDG1050 would have to be a lot cheaper for it to win out over the SDG2042X.  IIRC the SDG1050 doesn't allow you to add Harmonics either which I have found a lot of use for.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: pxl on April 12, 2016, 05:52:39 pm
Can anybody tell me what should I choose: SDG1050 or SDG2042X? Same price for the moment, but SDG2042X looks like more "modern" and fancy. :o What is the main difference? Comparing MSa vs GSa, etc.

I don't know the SDG1050 , but the SDG2042X has excellent build quality regarding the front panel, the buttons, the knob, everything is top notch, probably finer than the old series. My main complaint, however, that it forgets all the settings after restarting :wtf:. We can store and recall the settings, though, but that is far from convenient. Solutions appreciated :)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: alank2 on April 12, 2016, 06:05:07 pm
My main complaint, however, that it forgets all the settings after restarting :wtf:.

Did you try - Utility --> System --> PowerOn=Last ?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: pxl on April 12, 2016, 07:15:44 pm
My main complaint, however, that it forgets all the settings after restarting :wtf:.
Did you try - Utility --> System --> PowerOn=Last ?

:palm: Thanks, problem solved :)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: alank2 on April 12, 2016, 07:35:16 pm
:palm: Thanks, problem solved :)

Excellent.   :-+
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: treecatt on April 12, 2016, 10:14:30 pm
Doesn't anyone here use EasyWave? If so, perhaps one of you might provide a response to my question posted on 4/2 (post #304).
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: billfernandez on April 13, 2016, 12:56:08 am
Doesn't anyone here use EasyWave? If so, perhaps one of you might provide a response to my question posted on 4/2 (post #304).

1.  I saw your questions but don't really know the answers.

2. I've tried a number of times to use EasyWave and have yet to get predictable results.

3. It appears that the .bin file is just a bunch of samples with no timing information.  It appears that the samples are used at whatever rate you set, using your choice of DDS or TrueArb (each of which produces different waveforms from the same set of samples).

4.  Good luck.  If you figure it out please share the answers.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: CustomEngineerer on April 13, 2016, 01:03:11 am
Same here. I haven't needed to use Easywave so far, but the few times I did try to play around with it I had trouble getting it to do what I wanted it to, so haven't really spent much time using it.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: mongo on April 13, 2016, 01:14:51 am
Doesn't anyone here use EasyWave? If so, perhaps one of you might provide a response to my question posted on 4/2 (post #304).

Windows is banned from my lab, mostly due to the fun around a particular chip vendor committing corp suicide while trying to fight off chip clones so I don't run it but I have been digging in trying to figure out how to just upload waveforms without their software.

It may not be an answer but hopefully I can offer one soon.  The actual wave files seem to only contain waveform data, in a very basic format.  If the voltage settings are tracked they are in a file called "SDG200X_Arb_Summary_v1.2.xlsx" which is an E-SafeNet locked file.

As this is the only .xlsx file on the filesystem it may be that they are not saving settings for custom Arb file types, but I would highly encourage you to file a bug report, and to get them to change their model.  I highly doubt anyone is going to try to pilfer their file format, and I bet they could have a healthy 3rd party software pool which would be a much larger sales driver than their Easywave software is.

I'll make a note to update this thread if I get more information, if someone else doesn't solve the issue before I get time to look into it.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: treecatt on April 13, 2016, 09:49:54 am
Thanks to everyone who responded to my question. I'll play further with EasyWave when I have more time.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Steps on April 13, 2016, 03:16:26 pm
OK
So I finally close to buy Siglent SDG1025 for 330$ for Siglent sdg2042x for 470$. They are not the equal price. Which one is more value for money? Please help.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: alank2 on April 13, 2016, 03:44:23 pm
If it were me, I'd go with the SDG2042X for that amount of difference.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: rf-loop on April 13, 2016, 03:47:28 pm
OK
So I finally close to buy Siglent SDG1025 for 330$ for Siglent sdg2042x for 470$. They are not the equal price. Which one is more value for money? Please help.

SDG2042X. 
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Steps on April 14, 2016, 08:47:58 am
Thank you very much for recommendation. I started my buying activity from GW Instek GFG-8255A which looks like stone age artefact, cost 120$, but fits my demands for the moment. But found that Siglent SDG-805 much more modern and flexible instrument than GW Instek GFG-8255A, both 5 MHz, cost 220$.
And finally Siglent SDG2042X the best choice to cover all needs of elementary hobbyist.
Can anybody PM me how to do little particular adjustment of SDG2042X with fimware 17?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on April 14, 2016, 09:23:42 am
Can anybody PM me how to do little particular adjustment of SDG2042X with fimware 17?
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/msg855111/#msg855111 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/msg855111/#msg855111)
You've already thanked that post  ;) and AFAIK it's done using Telnet, Google it for clues.....

I haven't done mine yet, waiting for a rainy day.  ;)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: treecatt on April 14, 2016, 10:34:21 am
Just need a flash drive. If I remember correctly the download is a zip file. Instructions were included in the zip file for upgrading the firmware.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on April 14, 2016, 11:07:46 am
Just need a flash drive. If I remember correctly the download is a zip file. Instructions were included in the zip file for upgrading the firmware.
You'd better study the linked post and some before it, we're NOT discussing FW upgrades.  ;)

This one:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/msg800106/#msg800106 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/msg800106/#msg800106)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: treecatt on April 15, 2016, 05:15:14 am
My bad.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: highwayman on April 15, 2016, 10:20:02 pm
Does a particular terminal software work better than another?  Between Putty, Ultra Sigma, and Realterm, I am 0 for 3 in telnetting to my SDG2042X.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: rf-loop on April 16, 2016, 06:27:42 am
Does a particular terminal software work better than another?  Between Putty, Ultra Sigma, and Realterm, I am 0 for 3 in telnetting to my SDG2042X.

Just two messages before:


You'd better study the linked post and some before it, we're NOT discussing FW upgrades.  ;)

This one:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/msg800106/#msg800106 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/msg800106/#msg800106)

Period.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bson on April 16, 2016, 11:48:51 pm
Has anyone else seen this?  As I turn the dial to change the amplitude (0.1dBm steps into a 50ohm load I'm probing) the output has discontinuities.

(http://www.rockgarden.net/download/eevblog/sdg2122x_glitch.png)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: uncle_bob on April 16, 2016, 11:51:38 pm
Has anyone else seen this?  As I turn the dial to change the amplitude (0.1dBm steps into a 50ohm load I'm probing) the output glitches.

(http://www.rockgarden.net/download/eevblog/sdg2122x_glitch.png)

Hi

The attenuator is running on (slow) relays. The output is running on (fast) logic. There will always be a delay when "spinning the dial".

Bob
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bson on April 17, 2016, 12:01:57 am
Alright, back to the HP 33120A.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: mongo on April 17, 2016, 12:11:31 am
The HP 33120A will have dead time too when it switches ranges, you should not be seeing that delay if you are not moving to another auto-ranging scale.


Looking into a few reed switch spec sheets 50µ sec seems about the norm for a release time and the operate time tends to be ~100ms.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bson on April 17, 2016, 12:19:23 am
Not changing ranges, each and every tick, no matter how small, the Siglent does that.  The HP doesn't - I just checked.  It only changes the amplitude without discontinuities.  Since the ranges overlap it's pretty easy to avoid it for small trims like this.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on April 17, 2016, 01:22:31 am
Not changing ranges, each and every tick, no matter how small, the Siglent does that.  The HP doesn't - I just checked.  It only changes the amplitude without discontinuities.  Since the ranges overlap it's pretty easy to avoid it for small trims like this.
Confirmed and forwarded to Siglent.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bson on April 17, 2016, 06:45:12 am
Confirmed and forwarded to Siglent.
:-+
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on April 18, 2016, 08:31:50 am
Confirmed and forwarded to Siglent.
:-+
From Tech support:

We confirm the output glitch.
We will deal with this issue in a later new FW version.


Thanks for the feedback guys.  :-+
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Aeternam on April 18, 2016, 10:38:38 am
Ok I'm getting one.

Is there a Tequipment or Saelig like shop in Europe I should be ordering from? (US imports are a big nono due to shipping and import taxes...)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: rf-loop on April 18, 2016, 11:14:43 am
Ok I'm getting one.

Is there a Tequipment or Saelig like shop in Europe I should be ordering from? (US imports are a big nono due to shipping and import taxes...)

Batronix.

http://www.batronix.com/shop/waveform-generator/Siglent-SDG2042X.html (http://www.batronix.com/shop/waveform-generator/Siglent-SDG2042X.html)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Aeternam on April 22, 2016, 06:36:50 am
It's here and it's great! Came with the latest firmware (17R5) preinstalled.

In case anyone is wondering (I know I was), there is a coax provided in the box  :-+

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Timpert on April 22, 2016, 07:04:32 am
Has anyone already tested the PWM functionality? I see myself using this one...
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: JohnG on April 22, 2016, 12:30:14 pm
There is another output glitch that I have seen. I sent this directly to Siglent back in early February, but never got a response. It seems like they are much more responsive when it shows up here, so here goes:

When enabling a channel, the DC offset appears to be enabled before the pulse output, and intermittently as well. This can be a big problem when you are starting up. I hope this can be fixed.  Generator set at pulse output, low value zero, high value 10V (10Vpp, 5V offset), 3.33% duty cycle, 70 kHz, using Chan 1 out. The generator is driving a 50 ohm load, so one should see a 0-5V pulse.

The first waveform triggers when output is enabled. There are a bunch of glitches, and note the amplitude of 2.5V (equal to the expected offset value into 50 ohms).

The second shows the same over a long time scale, showing that the output looks like the DC offset of 2.5V for almost 70 ms (!) before the signal kicks in. The "black" area to the right of 70 ms is actually a bunch of narrow output pulses (3.3% duty?) at 70 kHz.

The third waveform is just the signal a while after enabling (looks fine).

John
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: ghulands on April 22, 2016, 11:36:52 pm
Is there a possibility to upgrade the bandwith from 40 to 120 by a license key?
The hardware seems to be the same to me.

Looks like someone hasn't read the thread!

Answer: Yes.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on April 23, 2016, 07:17:38 am
Is there a possibility to upgrade the bandwith from 40 to 120 by a license key?
The hardware seems to be the same to me.

Looks like someone hasn't read the thread!

Answer: Yes.
Reply #322
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on April 24, 2016, 09:40:42 am
There is another output glitch that I have seen. I sent this directly to Siglent back in early February, but never got a response. It seems like they are much more responsive when it shows up here, so here goes:

When enabling a channel, the DC offset appears to be enabled before the pulse output, and intermittently as well. This can be a big problem when you are starting up. I hope this can be fixed.
Siglent is now linked to your post.
Question: which FW version are you using?
Current Version: 1.17R5
http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDG2000X-P17R5.rar (http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDG2000X-P17R5.rar)

Quote
Generator set at pulse output, low value zero, high value 10V (10Vpp, 5V offset), 3.33% duty cycle, 70 kHz, using Chan 1 out. The generator is driving a 50 ohm load, so one should see a 0-5V pulse.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=219042)
Here's mine, AWG output set for HiZ and into 1M scope input.
(sorry, not prepared to risk damaging the 50 Ohm inputs in my DSO that's rated to 5V as most 50 Ohm inputs are)
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=219449)
Quote
The first waveform triggers when output is enabled. There are a bunch of glitches, and note the amplitude of 2.5V (equal to the expected offset value into 50 ohms).
Not seen any glitches other than the output enable relay contact bounce.
What will your output look like if you set it for 50 Ohm not HiZ as you should for a 50 Ohm load.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=219451)
Quote
The second shows the same over a long time scale, showing that the output looks like the DC offset of 2.5V for almost 70 ms (!) before the signal kicks in. The "black" area to the right of 70 ms is actually a bunch of narrow output pulses (3.3% duty?) at 70 kHz.
Something's wrong here, the offset while initially being correct is then lost and the following correct waveform is then without the selected offset. No detected glitches
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=219453)
Note in all images the baseline and trigger level settings.
All screenshots taken as single shot trigger setting.


Title: Floating output conversion?
Post by: Timpert on April 24, 2016, 03:45:32 pm
Ok, so the SDG2042X seems to tick most of my boxes but one: floating signal outputs in order to prevent ground loops, and to gain the ability to refer the outputs to an arbitrary potential. From the teardown videos, I do not see huge obstacles to converting the outputs to floating. The control board and the signal board are connected by a short piece of flat flex cable across which all the digital signals are carried. Replacing that with a little intermediate board containing the right ADuM isolators (and perhaps replace the rear panel BNC's with isolated ones, in case they aren't already there) should do the trick, right? Add a few tens of euros to the cost of the instrument, and you have the signal quality of the 2000X series, combined with the floating outputs sported by the 5000 series. That would be great...

I see one possible hurdle though. In the teardown video on the SDG5000 series, I can clearly distinguish the required isolated voltage output for the CPU board on the power supply board. In the teardown video of the SDG2122X, I can see a separate connection for the for the CPU board, but I see no evidence of an isolated supply voltage: the number of output filters is 4 instead of 5, and the transformer used (NT1795NL) is the same as in the SDG1000 series, and this one has no separate CPU board at all. So it looks to me as though the power supply has a dedicated connection for powering the CPU board, this connection is simply an extra parallel connection to a supply voltage that also goes to the signal generator board. Am I right? Could anyone who has voided the warranty on his generator try to find this out or post a picture of the underside of the PSU board? I hope I am wrong...

Detailed photos on the SDG1000 power supply board, which seems to be almost identical to the SDG2000X power supply, can be found here:
https://sigrok.org/wiki/Siglent_SDG1010 (https://sigrok.org/wiki/Siglent_SDG1010)

Here, at 13:55, you can clearly see the isolated CPU board voltage being made on the SDG5000 PSU board:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VK8MEcOYTOE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VK8MEcOYTOE)   
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Timpert on April 24, 2016, 08:36:45 pm
The CPU board looks quite similar (if not the same) to the one used in the SDM3055 multimeter...
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: JohnG on April 25, 2016, 01:07:36 pm
There is another output glitch that I have seen. I sent this directly to Siglent back in early February, but never got a response. It seems like they are much more responsive when it shows up here, so here goes:

When enabling a channel, the DC offset appears to be enabled before the pulse output, and intermittently as well. This can be a big problem when you are starting up. I hope this can be fixed.
Siglent is now linked to your post.
Question: which FW version are you using?
Current Version: 1.17R5


I have the 1.17R5 firmware installed. I understand the glitches are due to a relay, and there is no problem with the offset values, it is never dropped. 0-5V low/high settings are the same as +/-2.5V + 2.5V offset, so I use them interchangeably. Sorry if that caused any confusion.

It looks like internally, the generator does +/-2.5 and then adds an offset, which makes sense to keep all the waveform resolution bits. However, it appears to turn on the offset first, then active the relay, and then finally the pulse. This is not a good order, as now the generator sends this to some circuit under test, in my case a power circuit. By the time the generator output is finally correct, the circuit can be dead.

The circuit under test has a comparator at the input with 2.5 V. Of course we can change it, but should not have to, and 2.5 really the preferred value. Note that we have customers that ask us for recommendations. I would love to recommend the Siglent, and I use it myself. It has a lot of potential, but if it can cause problems with our own stuff, I cannot do that. However, some other bugs got taken care of quickly, so I have hope for this as well.

John
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Marblefish on April 26, 2016, 07:57:21 pm
Just wondering why Siglent Europe (siglent.eu) only has available the 15R2 firmware update available for the SDG2042X, but Siglent America has the 17R5 release. Is it something we Europeans have done to upset them or are we destined to be a few releases behind the US?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: nctnico on April 26, 2016, 08:02:40 pm
Check http://siglenteu.com/ (http://siglenteu.com/)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: CustomEngineerer on April 27, 2016, 12:52:36 am
I'm pretty sure siglent.eu is just a Siglent reseller, not actually Siglents website. The address nctnico posted is Siglents official European website.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on April 27, 2016, 01:01:15 am
I'm pretty sure siglent.eu is just a Siglent reseller, not actually Siglents website. The address nctnico posted is Siglents official European website.
Correct.
They trade as JR Special Electronics and are listed on the Siglent EU Website as an authorised dealer:
http://www.siglenteu.com/howtobuy.aspx (http://www.siglenteu.com/howtobuy.aspx)

Their principal is member Smoking who really needs to add a disclaimer to his profile
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: ghulands on April 28, 2016, 02:45:59 am
Received my unit about 20 mins ago. Hack complete. All 120 Mhz of it!

It would have been good if DHCP was enabled by default.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on April 28, 2016, 03:57:19 am
Received my unit about 20 mins ago. Hack complete. All 120 Mhz of it!

It would have been good if DHCP was enabled by default.
;D

By all means consider writing a "Guide for Dummies" for those less knowledgable than yourself.  ;)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: ghulands on April 28, 2016, 05:05:07 am
Guide for Dummies

1. Plug in ethernet cable and turn on unit
2. Press Utility -> Page 1/2 -> Interface -> LAN Setup -> DHCP ON
3. On you computer telnet (Windows use Putty, OS X and Linux can just use telnet on the CLI) to the IP Address that's displayed. (If you need to manually specify the port it's 23)
4. mount -o remount,rw ubi2_0 /usr/bin/siglent/firmdata0
5. cp /usr/bin/siglent/firmdata0/NSP_system_info.xml /usr/bin/siglent/firmdata0/NSP_system_info.xml.orig
6. vi /usr/bin/siglent/firmdata0/NSP_system_info.xml
7. Use the down arrow to navigate to the line which has '<license><bandwidth_update_license>xxxx</bandwidth_update_license></license>'
8. Press dd to delete the line. Press ESC. Type :wq then hit enter (write quit)
9. Turn unit off and on again
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: uncle_bob on April 29, 2016, 12:12:20 am
Guide for Dummies

1. Plug in ethernet cable and turn on unit
2. Press Utility -> Page 1/2 -> Interface -> LAN Setup -> DHCP ON
3. On you computer telnet (Windows use Putty, OS X and Linux can just use telnet on the CLI) to the IP Address that's displayed. (If you need to manually specify the port it's 23)
4. mount -o remount,rw ubi2_0 /usr/bin/siglent/firmdata0
5. cp /usr/bin/siglent/firmdata0/NSP_system_info.xml /usr/bin/siglent/firmdata0/NSP_system_info.xml.orig
6. vi /usr/bin/siglent/firmdata0/NSP_system_info.xml
7. Use the down arrow to navigate to the line which has '<license><bandwidth_update_license>xxxx</bandwidth_update_license></license>'
8. Press dd to delete the line. Press ESC. Type :wq then hit enter (write quit)
9. Turn unit off and on again

Hi

For those with tired old fingers do a cd /usr/bin/siglent/firmdata0 after step 4. Next two become:

5. cp NSP_system_info.xml NSP_system_info.xml.orig
6. vi NSP_system_info.xml

Saves a lot of typing ...probably cuts out at least 10 seconds :) Potentially a bit more if you are prone to fat fingering command line stuff. The cd will puke if you give it a bad directory name so you will get feedback there quickly.

Bob
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: ghulands on April 29, 2016, 12:17:42 am
Guide for Dummies

1. Plug in ethernet cable and turn on unit
2. Press Utility -> Page 1/2 -> Interface -> LAN Setup -> DHCP ON
3. On you computer telnet (Windows use Putty, OS X and Linux can just use telnet on the CLI) to the IP Address that's displayed. (If you need to manually specify the port it's 23)
4. mount -o remount,rw ubi2_0 /usr/bin/siglent/firmdata0
5. cp /usr/bin/siglent/firmdata0/NSP_system_info.xml /usr/bin/siglent/firmdata0/NSP_system_info.xml.orig
6. vi /usr/bin/siglent/firmdata0/NSP_system_info.xml
7. Use the down arrow to navigate to the line which has '<license><bandwidth_update_license>xxxx</bandwidth_update_license></license>'
8. Press dd to delete the line. Press ESC. Type :wq then hit enter (write quit)
9. Turn unit off and on again

Hi

For those with tired old fingers do a cd /usr/bin/siglent/firmdata0 after step 4. Next two become:

5. cp NSP_system_info.xml NSP_system_info.xml.orig
6. vi NSP_system_info.xml

Saves a lot of typing ...probably cuts out at least 10 seconds :) Potentially a bit more if you are prone to fat fingering command line stuff. The cd will puke if you give it a bad directory name so you will get feedback there quickly.

Bob

Fingers? Whatcha' talking 'bout Willis? Copy-Paste-Enter!
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: PartialDischarge on May 04, 2016, 05:47:23 pm
Just got my SDG2042x yesterday, nice piece, I absolutely like the ability to generate large peak amplitudes at high frequency, compared to the Rigol at least...

attached is a smile from my scope, which is happy too!
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Steps on May 05, 2016, 06:56:26 am
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Siglent-SDG2042X-touch-screen-40MHz-1-2GSa-s-signal-waveform-function-generator-dual-channel-16bit-vertical/32477196812.html?ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_7,searchweb201602_1_10017_10034_10021_507_10033_10022_10020_10009_10008_10018_10019,searchweb201603_1&btsid=e40d5ea2-6fe4-4e8d-b40d-33d09f4081fe (http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Siglent-SDG2042X-touch-screen-40MHz-1-2GSa-s-signal-waveform-function-generator-dual-channel-16bit-vertical/32477196812.html?ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_7,searchweb201602_1_10017_10034_10021_507_10033_10022_10020_10009_10008_10018_10019,searchweb201603_1&btsid=e40d5ea2-6fe4-4e8d-b40d-33d09f4081fe)

Chinese sellers read the EEVblog!
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on May 05, 2016, 07:56:49 am
Chinese sellers read the EEVblog!
;D
But they've never unpacked a SDG2042X  |O

Quote
Accessoires Included:
Siglent SDG2042X Arbitrary Function Generator
User Manual
Guarantee Card
CD (including EasyWave 1.0 computer software system)
Power Cord
USB Cable
Quick Start Guide

BNC cable missing from list ^^^  ::)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: rf-loop on May 05, 2016, 08:12:47 am
Chinese sellers read the EEVblog!
;D
But they've never unpacked a SDG2042X  |O

Quote
Accessoires Included:
Siglent SDG2042X Arbitrary Function Generator
User Manual
Guarantee Card
CD (including EasyWave 1.0 computer software system)
Power Cord
USB Cable
Quick Start Guide

BNC cable missing from list ^^^  ::)

Calibration certificate is missing.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bson on May 07, 2016, 03:58:40 am
Another bug... If I set it to output an AM signal with exactly a 25.0MHz carrier it tells me the upper limit is 25MHz, then sets it to 25MHz. :)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on May 07, 2016, 04:34:40 am
Another bug... If I set it to output an AM signal with exactly a 25.0MHz carrier it tells me the upper limit is 25MHz, then sets it to 25MHz. :)
What about 24.999999 MHz, any warning then?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bson on May 07, 2016, 04:49:48 am
Another bug... If I set it to output an AM signal with exactly a 25.0MHz carrier it tells me the upper limit is 25MHz, then sets it to 25MHz. :)
What about 24.999999 MHz, any warning then?
Now I tried again and couldn't reproduce it.  Turns out the following steps reproduce it:

1. Set to AM, 25MHz carrier
2. Try to increase it past this with the dial... this will produce a 25MHz limit message
3. Set to AM, 25MHz carrier... and get the same 25MHz limit message

24.999999MHz in step 3 won't reproduce it.

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on May 07, 2016, 04:54:53 am
Another bug... If I set it to output an AM signal with exactly a 25.0MHz carrier it tells me the upper limit is 25MHz, then sets it to 25MHz. :)
What about 24.999999 MHz, any warning then?
Now I tried again and couldn't reproduce it.  Turns out the following steps reproduce it:

1. Set to AM, 25MHz carrier
2. Try to increase it past this with the dial... this will produce a 25MHz limit message
3. Set to AM, 25MHz carrier... and get the same 25MHz limit message

24.999999MHz in step 3 won't reproduce it.
Of course, it's 1 Hz below the upper limit.

Working as expected IMO or do you still call it a bug.  :-//
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bson on May 07, 2016, 09:04:18 am
Working as expected IMO or do you still call it a bug.  :-//
Definitely a bug.  When set to a valid value, which 25MHz is, it should just set it and not show any message indicating it couldn't be set.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on May 07, 2016, 09:24:39 am
Working as expected IMO or do you still call it a bug.  :-//
Definitely a bug.  When set to a valid value, which 25MHz is, it should just set it and not show any message indicating it couldn't be set.
Hmmm, other Siglent AWG's show this same behaviour too and if it was to be changed/fixed what about displaying Maximum Frequency n MHz ?

Or a better message.....?

Re-read.  :phew:

Gotcha, minor bug.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Timpert on May 16, 2016, 08:12:49 pm
I had just opened up my new SDG2042X to see if it would be possible to give it isolated outputs (with a little add-on board containing the data isolators and a DC/DC converter). But the first thing that caught my eye was this: the DAC markings had been ground off! Why would they do that? The DAC part number is already a public secret for a little over half a year, so I see no point in this. There are no other parts with erased markings in my device, just the DAC has been "treated". Curious... 
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: rf-loop on May 16, 2016, 08:56:41 pm
I had just opened up my new SDG2042X to see if it would be possible to give it isolated outputs (with a little add-on board containing the data isolators and a DC/DC converter). But the first thing that caught my eye was this: the DAC markings had been ground off! Why would they do that? The DAC part number is already a public secret for a little over half a year, so I see no point in this. There are no other parts with erased markings in my device, just the DAC has been "treated". Curious...

But you do not now know what is exactly in your equipment. We only know what it have been in unit where from this old information is.

User need  know what is coming out from BNC not exactly how its is done.

They have learn this from Rigol and many others. World is full of parts who want use all available information for do they own application or for other purposes, even source of components may be sensitive information in some competition situations as we well know from example mobile phone industry etc.

Of course other possible is to do it like  Keysight (HP, Agilent) or Tektronix tens of years and use own customer part number on chip.
Chinese need learn this western normal practice and no one caught.

If I develop and made these I will hide much much more.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Timpert on May 17, 2016, 08:18:02 am
Quote
User need  know what is coming out from BNC not exactly how its is done.
Have you never run into a situation where you wanted to know why exactly your equipment was behaving the way it did? I do, frankly, quite often. For the average consumer, there usually is no need to know what's going on inside a piece of gear. In an electronics R&D lab, things may be different. For this market, selling "black boxes" is not the way to go according to many (including myself). And the manufacturer may benefit from this as well, see "Project Yaigol" where a design goof-up is being fixed in the clock generator of a Rigol scope. Someone else is doing Rigol's homework. Free of charge!

Quote
If I develop and made these I will hide much much more.
What are you afraid of?

The difference with A brand test gear is that, if you run into an issue, you can talk to a support engineer or probably even a development engineer for those special cases who will help you and provide you with the necessary technical information to solve your problem. With the B brands, you usually don't get that kind of support (which is to be expected, given the price of the box). Instead, you need to rely on community support on forums like this one, and from people who have taken the time to dive into the instrument and figure out what happens under the bonnet. This community support is what helps sell the devices as well, so IMHO any manufacturer who relies on community support (which Siglent clearly does), is shooting himself in the foot by witholding technical information and resorting to silly measures like rubbing off a part number.

To make a long story short: rubbing off a part number raises the "dodgy!" flag. Just don't do that, because it makes you go down a rung on the credibility ladder. IMHO of course.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: nctnico on May 17, 2016, 08:38:18 am
The major brands have been removing part numbers for a long time. They even stamp their own parts number on jelly bean parts like a TL074 opamp.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: rf-loop on May 17, 2016, 09:31:49 am
Quote
User need  know what is coming out from BNC not exactly how its is done.
Have you never run into a situation where you wanted to know why exactly your equipment was behaving the way it did?

Yes, and lot of.
I have only around 50 years of experience with many kind of electronics due to radio and other electronics  hobby, due to long time industrial automation and industrial electronics including power electronics and electric repair, maintenance, modifications and previously also designing some electronics. Also with these all,  "some amount" of experience with many kind of T&M equipments for field and R&D use. Also repairing them, also calibrating them and also doing some modifications for some very special purposes. Also something previously with electronic equipments manufacturing.  Also I know something about problems in China and how challenging environment it is with tens of thousends "car carage" or even more manufacturing copy cats and A to D level "factories"  etc.  (there is my 2nd home)
And I'm not yet ready for retire. If I get to decide that.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: rf-loop on May 17, 2016, 09:33:43 am
Siglent have published SDG2000X series service manual. (http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Documents/service_manual/SDG2000X_ServiceManual_SM0202X-E01A.pdf)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: rf-loop on May 17, 2016, 09:43:17 am

Quote
Quote
If I develop and made these I will hide much much more.
What are you afraid of?

You have never developed-designed and manufactured anything intelligent and no one have after then stolen your ready work?


These are not "open <sh---cencored>"
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: pxl on May 17, 2016, 10:52:31 am

Quote
Quote
If I develop and made these I will hide much much more.
What are you afraid of?

You have never developed-designed and manufactured anything intelligent and no one have after then stolen your ready work?

These are not "open <sh---cencored>"

Yeah, just see the blatant ripoff of the Agilent multimeter copied by Siglent :P
And this is the new consistent design of the "X" series, like the SDG2042X, which is great in one hand (looks and feels high quality), but on the other hand  :palm:
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Timpert on May 17, 2016, 11:21:10 am
Quote
You have never developed-designed and manufactured anything intelligent and no one have after then stolen your ready work?

In this specific case, just by tracing the digital inputs, analog outputs, counting the pins, checking the package and key requirements, the DAC can probably be uniquely identified, with a continuity bleeper as your only measurement instrument. Rubbing off the part number doesn't prevent that, it just makes it a bit harder. The only thing that cannot easily be traced is the grade of the chip that's on the board. This raises the question: what are they really hiding?

Copycats are a real problem, I'd be the first one to admit that. But there are better ways to prevent them from stealing your IP than (needlessly) rubbing off part numbers. Security by obscurity doesn't work in this market. In this case, the FPGA is the place where the magic happens. Encrypting the configuration code is an obvious, and far more effective method to keep copycats from reverse engineering your product. Even that is not water tight, and there is an army of smart engineers willing to pick up such a challenge.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on May 17, 2016, 08:20:15 pm
Yeah, just see the blatant ripoff of the Agilent multimeter copied by Siglent :P
You'd be well advised to do some more homework.  :P

See this post and others that are linked to.  ;)
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg637615/#msg637615 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg637615/#msg637615)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Aeternam on May 25, 2016, 07:04:18 am
I had just opened up my new SDG2042X to see if it would be possible to give it isolated outputs (with a little add-on board containing the data isolators and a DC/DC converter).

Any news? This seems like an interesting little project...
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on May 25, 2016, 07:57:05 am
I had just opened up my new SDG2042X to see if it would be possible to give it isolated outputs (with a little add-on board containing the data isolators and a DC/DC converter).

Any news? This seems like an interesting little project...
Are you aware the SDG5000 series offers isolated outputs as standard spec?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Timpert on May 25, 2016, 11:47:17 am
Quote
Are you aware the SDG5000 series offers isolated outputs as standard spec?
Yes, I am, but the SDG5000 is in another price bracket, and it has a slightly poorer sine wave quality too. So getting an SDG2042X and trying to isolate its outputs seemed like a worthwhile attempt to me.

I will share some news on my progress, but please don't expect too much on short notice. I have gotten quite a bit of work on my plate lately.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: rf-loop on May 25, 2016, 03:01:47 pm
I had just opened up my new SDG2042X to see if it would be possible to give it isolated outputs (with a little add-on board containing the data isolators and a DC/DC converter).

Any news? This seems like an interesting little project...
Are you aware the SDG5000 series offers isolated outputs as standard spec?

They are not true isolated if mean true DC-AC-(RF) isolation.
But, DC isolation, they do not lie. But....

Also channels are not isolated from each other.

In this case "Isolation" mean that whole signal board is DC floating but nothing more if look floating impedance.

There is high capasitive connection to chassis and between chassis and BNC GNG is max 42V.
Capasitance from BNC GND to Chassis is somewhere around >3uF ! (least in SDG5082 individual unit what I have)
Reactance with 50Hz is around 1ohm Omg. Err...  Right is of course around 1kohm.


Example HP33120A  floating output have around 4000pF  as can see in attachment.
This reactance with 50Hz is around 800kohm
Same max 42Vpk.

Lets hope Timbert find nice solution and sell it to Siglent.

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: PartialDischarge on May 25, 2016, 04:47:08 pm
One thing i'm missing from the SDG2042 is the ability to add noise to the generated waveform, ie sine+noise, pulse+noise....

BTW heres the spectrum of the white noise coming out of the generator, 130mV stddev over 50ohms, 120Mhz bandwidth  :D:
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Timpert on May 27, 2016, 08:03:53 am
Quote
Reactance with 50Hz is around 1ohm
Really? How can that be with a 3 uF capacitance to ground? And where is the component that causes that? Anything like that is borderline useless, as one of the points of isolated outputs is to break the ground loop that now always exists when using the generator together with a scope. I have looked at the teardown video and pictures of the SDG5000, and they use a bunch of ADuM isolators, and galvanically isolated power supplies, so a reasonable capacity to ground would be somewhere around 10 nF.

I have opened up my generator a while ago to figure out the signals between the CPU board and the signal generator board. I am currently still doing the feasibility research, but so far I have not found anything that makes isolation impossible. It is however a little less trivial than I initially thought. When I have established definitively to go ahead with this, I'll open up another thread for it.

MasterTech's post is one of many showing that the signal quality of this generator is very good for it's class.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: nugglix on May 27, 2016, 08:51:26 am
One thing i'm missing from the SDG2042 is the ability to add noise to the generated waveform, ie sine+noise, pulse+noise....

*cough*

Under modulation you can find noise as mod-waveform.
At least on my unit...
Works for AM, FM and PM at least.
Also seems to work for the standard waveforms.
But I've no time to test that now.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Ivan7enych on May 27, 2016, 10:52:57 am
One thing i'm missing from the SDG2042 is the ability to add noise to the generated waveform, ie sine+noise, pulse+noise....

BTW heres the spectrum of the white noise coming out of the generator, 130mV stddev over 50ohms, 120Mhz bandwidth  :D:
Spectrum looks like an analog based noise generator.

Rigol DG4062 can add noise to signal, but it's spectrum is not uniform and looks like many many spikes (digitaly constructed noise pattern?).
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: PartialDischarge on May 27, 2016, 12:27:18 pm
The lowest signal tone it can generate is 1 mVpp, -56dbm and its pretty clean:


Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: rf-loop on May 27, 2016, 03:05:56 pm
Quote
Reactance with 50Hz is around 1ohm
Really? How can that be with a 3 uF capacitance to ground? And where is the component that causes that?

Here attached image from one SDG5082 output on the PCB.

Capacitor parallel with bidirectional TVS  from connector GND to chassis.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Timpert on May 27, 2016, 09:28:37 pm
Have you measured the AC voltage between signal ground and chassis on your SDG5000 with it powered on, output enabled and nothing connected? Also measure the AC leakage current from signal ground to chassis. I bet there's some capacitive coupling from the mains to the output in the power supply via the transformer and the EMI suppression cap. Or your TVS diode may be shot.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: rf-loop on May 28, 2016, 07:15:01 am
I bet there's some capacitive coupling from the mains to the output in the power supply via the transformer and the EMI suppression cap. Or your TVS diode may be shot.

TVS diodes are ok. I told there is high capasitive coupling from signal board to equipment chassis. These coupling capasitors, parallel with TVS, you can see in image. I do not need advisory for find problem in my SDG5k. Why start finding problem where is not problem?  I only tell how it is designed (and when asked about this capasitance) and it works as designed and manufactured.  I'm not interested to find where is possible other capasittive pico- and nano Farades connections (designed and parasitic)  here and there when there exist also microfarads.)  Why you think TVS diode shot, my SDG5k does not have a fault.  Or do you mean this 1kohm capasitive reactance between chassis and output BNC GND. 1kohm 50Hz reactance is not at all good.  It is barely acceptable if we have pure clean sinewave mains.  There exist lot of LF-HF noise in mains and with this high capasitive connection if there exist (example) 50kHz freq components reactance is now around 1ohm (take scope or analyzer and look what all there is traveling in mains (this is why I use in many cases filtered mains). When look example HP in previous example, there is around 4nF.
So in SDG5k we can talk more like there is just "DC block" <42V

Totally other question is if I like it or not or if someone else like it or not.

I can tell my personal single opinion and it is: I do not like how they have done it. If I design this equipment I will do it different for bit better (in this specific output isolation question).

This "isolation" in SDG5k is still lot of better better than nothing.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: PartialDischarge on May 28, 2016, 09:28:50 am
Just found a SW bug regarding the modulation with noise:

1) Set carrier, eg 40MHz
2) turn on AM modulation, 100% depth, sine wave, set AM frequency to  x Mhz (I used x=1, but tested others too)
At this point the correct AM modulated waveform is generated
3) Change modulation "shape" to noise
instead of noise being modulated, an infinite number of sub-carriers spaced x Mhz apart are generated
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on May 28, 2016, 09:39:25 am
Just found a SW bug regarding the modulation with noise:

1) Set carrier, eg 40MHz
2) turn on AM modulation, 100% depth, sine wave, set AM frequency to  x Mhz (I used x=1, but tested others too)
At this point the correct AM modulated waveform is generated
3) Change modulation "shape" to noise
instead of noise being modulated, an infinite number of sub-carriers spaced x Mhz apart are generated
Can I ask, which model? 40, 80 or 120 MHz unit.

Edit.
Got a PM from MasterTech and his is a improved SDG2042X. <wink>
We'll attempt to replicate this bug with a new unit and if proven will be notified to Siglent next week.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Timpert on May 28, 2016, 02:13:19 pm
@rf-loop: no offense meant, I just reacted to your post before you corrected your typo. 1k Ohms perfectly adds up with the 3 uF you mentioned. I hope we can agree that if the impedance to ground really were 1 Ohm, then something would be seriously knackered.

@everyone interested: The reason why Siglent chose the rather large capacitance between output ground and chassis for the SDG5000 lies in the EMI suppression scheme they chose for the power supply. There is a little 2.2 nF suppression cap next to the transformer, that is connected between the output common and the primary circuit's negative rail. This negative rail bounces up and down at roughly one half mains voltage (so in my case 325 V P-P), and if nothing is done to suppress that, that voltage will end up superimposed on the output voltage. Very high-Z though, but enough to give you a slight tingle and to damage electronics. When you draw that away with 3 uF to chassis it drops to some 80 mV RMS, low enough so that nobody will be bothered.

The SDG2000X power supply is almost identical to that of the SDG5000, and it has the same EMI suppression scheme. So I can choose to go for an isolation solution like the SDG5000 and accept 3 uF between output ground and chassis, or I can try to tackle the PSU as well, and aim for something in the 10 nF range, which a good bit more useful. But as rf-loop rightfully concluded, 3 uF output-to-ground capacity is still a lot better than no isolation. So I suppose this is one of the reasons why you pay top dollar for a Hagsight generator. 

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: rf-loop on May 28, 2016, 05:21:55 pm
@rf-loop: no offense meant, I just reacted to your post before you corrected your typo. 1k Ohms perfectly adds up with the 3 uF you mentioned. I hope we can agree that if the impedance to ground really were 1 Ohm, then something would be seriously knackered.

@everyone interested: The reason why Siglent chose the rather large capacitance between output ground and chassis for the SDG5000 lies in the EMI suppression scheme they chose for the power supply. There is a little 2.2 nF suppression cap next to the transformer, that is connected between the output common and the primary circuit's negative rail. This negative rail bounces up and down at roughly one half mains voltage (so in my case 325 V P-P), and if nothing is done to suppress that, that voltage will end up superimposed on the output voltage. Very high-Z though, but enough to give you a slight tingle and to damage electronics. When you draw that away with 3 uF to chassis it drops to some 80 mV RMS, low enough so that nobody will be bothered.

The SDG2000X power supply is almost identical to that of the SDG5000, and it has the same EMI suppression scheme. So I can choose to go for an isolation solution like the SDG5000 and accept 3 uF between output ground and chassis, or I can try to tackle the PSU as well, and aim for something in the 10 nF range, which a good bit more useful. But as rf-loop rightfully concluded, 3 uF output-to-ground capacity is still a lot better than no isolation. So I suppose this is one of the reasons why you pay top dollar for a Hagsight generator.

Yes this 1ohm was my typo.  Later I think why you wonder this. I read my msg agen and did not se any strange, until later I read agen and ...ooops..there is k missing.

But yes I agree what you say about construction (and also reason).  In equipment there need do compromise with things. If I do it I do different and try much less coupling cap to chassis as example there in HP.

But, with this design we need live with SDG5k.

It is nice if SDG2000X can get least some kind of isolation modification but if can reach 10-20nF range is "super" (in this case) imho.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Timpert on May 29, 2016, 07:52:52 pm
For a moment I thought I might have a solution that brings isolated outputs with a capacity of roughly 60 nF to ground, with only a small change in the PSU's EMI filtering.  But some more thinking revealed an unacceptable side effect of this change: about 100 mVrms of residual at the switch frequency, ouch! So it will have to be 3 uF to ground and keeping the current PSU EMI filtering scheme, the same as with the SDG5000. Otherwise, EMI performance will be horrible.

The reason for this is the use of an unshielded power transformer in the (resonant) PSU, giving a significant capacitive coupling between primary and secondary. The deluxe option would be to replace the power transformer with an appropriately shielded one (2 shields are required at the least), but that would be a major operation. Not that I don't like the challenge, and I feel that it should be doable, but I also feel that I am going overboard when I take this route.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on May 31, 2016, 05:19:57 am
Just found a SW bug regarding the modulation with noise:

1) Set carrier, eg 40MHz
2) turn on AM modulation, 100% depth, sine wave, set AM frequency to  x Mhz (I used x=1, but tested others too)
At this point the correct AM modulated waveform is generated
3) Change modulation "shape" to noise
instead of noise being modulated, an infinite number of sub-carriers spaced x Mhz apart are generated
Can I ask, which model? 40, 80 or 120 MHz unit.

Edit.
Got a PM from MasterTech and his is a improved SDG2042X. <wink>
We'll attempt to replicate this bug with a new unit and if proven will be notified to Siglent next week.
Following on from the bug MasterTech revealed above....

Is a Noise type of modulation even required?  :-//
Why? Real use example please.

Do other AWG's provide Noise modulation of waveforms?
Makes? Models?

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: PartialDischarge on May 31, 2016, 05:59:33 am
Just found a SW bug regarding the modulation with noise:

1) Set carrier, eg 40MHz
2) turn on AM modulation, 100% depth, sine wave, set AM frequency to  x Mhz (I used x=1, but tested others too)
At this point the correct AM modulated waveform is generated
3) Change modulation "shape" to noise
instead of noise being modulated, an infinite number of sub-carriers spaced x Mhz apart are generated
Can I ask, which model? 40, 80 or 120 MHz unit.

Edit.
Got a PM from MasterTech and his is a improved SDG2042X. <wink>
We'll attempt to replicate this bug with a new unit and if proven will be notified to Siglent next week.
Following on from the bug MasterTech revealed above....

Is a Noise type of modulation even required?  :-//
Why? Real use example please.

Do other AWG's provide Noise modulation of waveforms?
Makes? Models?

It actually doesn't make any sense, if I were Siglent I'd remove that option in the modulation menus. They are looking for trouble by doing it this way.
However, adding noise to other waveforms (ie sine+noise, pulse+noise, etc...)  is very useful, as it lets you mimic real life conditions at the input of devices like logic gates, drivers, demodulators..... That feature should be added in my humble opinion. ^-^
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: rf-loop on May 31, 2016, 06:22:18 am
Just found a SW bug regarding the modulation with noise:

1) Set carrier, eg 40MHz
2) turn on AM modulation, 100% depth, sine wave, set AM frequency to  x Mhz (I used x=1, but tested others too)
At this point the correct AM modulated waveform is generated
3) Change modulation "shape" to noise
instead of noise being modulated, an infinite number of sub-carriers spaced x Mhz apart are generated
Can I ask, which model? 40, 80 or 120 MHz unit.

Edit.
Got a PM from MasterTech and his is a improved SDG2042X. <wink>
We'll attempt to replicate this bug with a new unit and if proven will be notified to Siglent next week.
Following on from the bug MasterTech revealed above....

Is a Noise type of modulation even required?  :-//
Why? Real use example please.

Do other AWG's provide Noise modulation of waveforms?
Makes? Models?

Take one SW radio and turn it on. Start searching some transmission.
What you hear. You hear enormous amount of natural and human made noise and somewhere inside this are also many kind of signals. In lab when we test example wireless data transmission we need signal + noise for emulate natural situation. (yes it can do also other ways) Some times overall noise level is far over wanted signal level and we need build equipments what can catch this signal from deep under noise level. ;) ;)

(Least I solve this problem with mixixing noise source and signal)

But overall, noise is very important tool for many many things and usefulness of noise is many times underestimated or even misunderstooded.   Pity that these AWG software made noises are  mostly far from ideal random gaussian noise.
How you characterize filter. Whos is using sweep generator. Other and very good way is use just noise. Input wide BW random (white or nearly white or bit pink) noise to filter and look what come out, thats it and so simple.
Even if you transmit RS232 over cable between equipments, how uoy know it work in real word if you have tested only with ideal "school book" signal. No, it need test in natural worst caase environment or you need simulate this situation, noise is one good tool for it. So, modulate your pulse queye with noise and know more how it work.

If we use signal generator only connected to oscilloscope and we want look nice images on the scope screen...  we want clean signal many times. But for real testings we need also dirty or very dirty signals and so that all parameters are in "worst case" position, including levels, freq tolerances, noises and mismatching ringing etc. These can simulate with good tools. Going to natural worst case real world testing is next phase but this IS expensive. One test may cost more that couple of equipments. ;)

(I have not tested SDG2000X noise modulation but SDG5000 I have tested and if talk seriously. It is NOT true gaussian random noise. It is some kind of "looks like random but not at all random" fake noise.

One example here. I can ask. is this random gaussian noise. No, it is far away. (yes there is trick and note also scale but... if look this with spectrum... it is fun)

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on May 31, 2016, 07:10:20 am
It actually doesn't make any sense, if I were Siglent I'd remove that option in the modulation menus. They are looking for trouble by doing it this way.
This is what's being considered. ^^

Quote
However, adding noise to other waveforms (ie sine+noise, pulse+noise, etc...)  is very useful, as it lets you mimic real life conditions at the input of devices like logic gates, drivers, demodulators..... That feature should be added in my humble opinion. ^-^
Thanks for your feedback.  :-+
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Steps on May 31, 2016, 01:47:50 pm
Guide for Dummies

1. Plug in ethernet cable and turn on unit
2. Press Utility -> Page 1/2 -> Interface -> LAN Setup -> DHCP ON
3. On you computer telnet (Windows use Putty, OS X and Linux can just use telnet on the CLI) to the IP Address that's displayed. (If you need to manually specify the port it's 23)
4. mount -o remount,rw ubi2_0 /usr/bin/siglent/firmdata0
5. cp /usr/bin/siglent/firmdata0/NSP_system_info.xml /usr/bin/siglent/firmdata0/NSP_system_info.xml.orig
6. vi /usr/bin/siglent/firmdata0/NSP_system_info.xml
7. Use the down arrow to navigate to the line which has '<license><bandwidth_update_license>xxxx</bandwidth_update_license></license>'
8. Press dd to delete the line. Press ESC. Type :wq then hit enter (write quit)
9. Turn unit off and on again

Done!
Thanks. I feel myself like real hacker.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bson on June 01, 2016, 05:00:52 am
Found another bug.  Set the output to a 5dBm sine wave.  Use the dial to reduce it in 1dBm steps.  It won't go negative.
Set the output to -5dBm.  Turn the dial to go positive.  It won't let you turn it back down to -5dBm again.  Once negative you can go up and down, but it refuses to cross 0dBm going downwards.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: pascal_sweden on June 11, 2016, 11:53:05 pm
High-performance sampling system with 1.2 GSa/s sampling rate and 16-bit vertical resolution.

Innovative TrueArb technology, based on a point-by-point architecture, supports any 8 pts ~ 8 Mpts Arb waveform with a sampling rate in range of 1 uSa/s ~ 75 MSa/s.

Where does the limitation of 75 MSa/s come from, while it uses a sampling system with 1.2 GSa/s?

For which signals does it use 1.2 GSa/s? And for which does it use less?

Why you would want to use a variable sampling rate that goes down to 1 uSa/s?
Isn't it better to just always use the highest available sampling rate for best results?

Or is it because of memory limitations, when you want to store longer periods?
But then again, isn't 1 uSa/s a bit on the low side? :)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: billfernandez on June 12, 2016, 02:47:19 am
High-performance sampling system with 1.2 GSa/s sampling rate and 16-bit vertical resolution.

Innovative TrueArb technology, based on a point-by-point architecture, supports any 8 pts ~ 8 Mpts Arb waveform with a sampling rate in range of 1 uSa/s ~ 75 MSa/s.

Where does the limitation of 75 MSa/s come from, while it uses a sampling system with 1.2 GSa/s?

For which signals does it use 1.2 GSa/s? And for which does it use less?

Why you would want to use a variable sampling rate that goes down to 1 uSa/s?
Isn't it better to just always use the highest available sampling rate for best results?

Or is it because of memory limitations, when you want to store longer periods?
But then again, isn't 1 uSa/s a bit on the low side? :)

Siglent tends to combine random good-sounding specs into a single passage, making it hard to figure out where they all come from.  Here are partial answers from my personal notes:

16-BIT RESOLUTION AND 1.2GS/s:

These apply to the DDS (Direct Digital Synthesis) mode of generating arbitrary waveforms.

IN DDS mode the unit pulls 14-bit samples from memory at the rate of 300 million samples per second, then between every two adjacent samples it inserts three interpolated samples that it creates on the fly, resulting in four 16-bit values OUT for every one 14-bit sample IN.  The resulting sample stream is sent to the  digital-to-analog converter at the rate of 1.2 gigasamples per second (four times the rate at which samples are pulled from memory).  This allows the generator to output much cleaner waveforms.  Note that no interpolation is done between the first and last sample if the generator is set to loop the sample set.

75Ms/s, 1uS/s:

These apply to the TrueArb mode of generating arbitrary waveforms.

In TrueArb mode the unit will draw samples from memory at a variable rate from 1 sample per 1 million seconds to 75 million samples per second and deliver them (with interpolation?) to the DAC.

Note that the unit will only let you set a "frequency" of up to 4.577,637kHz.  But frequency of what?  If you divide 75M by 4.6k you get 16,384.  So apparently when you set the frequency you are telling the unit how fast to cycle through 16,384 samples.

So what happens if you have more than 16K samples in your sample set?  I don't know.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: CustomEngineerer on June 12, 2016, 02:51:11 am
Good explanation of how "TrueArb" waveform generation works (as well as other methods) can be found in this technical brief from Tektronix.

http://www.tek.com/document/fact-sheet/understanding-signal-generation-methodologies (http://www.tek.com/document/fact-sheet/understanding-signal-generation-methodologies)

As far as why you wouldn't always want to use the highest sampling rate. TrueArb generators work on a variable clock, and displays every point in the waveform. To control the frequency, you change the sample rate. While the SDG2000X generators will allow you to switch to frequency adjustment while in TrueArb mode, its really just changing the sample rate to change the output frequency.

This next part is how I understand it, but could certainly be wrong. The max sample rate in TrueArb mode is 75MSa/s. The 1.2GSa/s is when in DDS mode, where the actual sample rate is 300MSa/s, but 4x interpolated to get the effective sample rate of 1.2GSa/s. So the sample rate is much higher in DDS mode, but with TrueArb mode you are guaranteed to have every point displayed accurately. Each method has its pros and cons. Which mode you use will depend on what you are trying to do.

Edit: Good explanation of using interpolation and filtering for signal generation from National Instruments: http://sine.ni.com/np/app/main/p/ap/mi/lang/en/pg/1/sn/n17:mi,n21:42/fmid/3014/ (http://sine.ni.com/np/app/main/p/ap/mi/lang/en/pg/1/sn/n17:mi,n21:42/fmid/3014/)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: CustomEngineerer on June 12, 2016, 03:05:21 am
Note that the unit will only let you set a "frequency" of up to 4.577,637kHz.  But frequency of what?  If you divide 75M by 4.6k you get 16,384.  So apparently when you set the frequency you are telling the unit how fast to cycle through 16,384 samples.

So what happens if you have more than 16K samples in your sample set?  I don't know.

The max "frequency" it will let you set in TrueArb mode is dependent on the number of samples in the waveform. If the waveform has 375points, the max "frequency" you can set it to is 200KHz. 75M / 375 = 200,000. So it would be the same if you had more than 16K samples, the max "frequency" you could set would be lower than 4.6KHz. You are correct, that frequency is essentially telling it how fast to cycle through the points in memory. Your actual output frequency will depend on how many cycles are in your waveform. So if you have an 375 pts waveform, thats composed of 2 cycles of a sine wave, running at 75MSa/s, your actual output frequency would be 400KHz.

Pretty sure those numbers are correct, but definitely open to correction if I'm being stupid.

Edit: I know 375pts was an odd number to pick, but the SDG2000X have several different sized builtin demo arb waveforms, and 375pt was the smallest one. If I hadn't been working on the lab computer this weekend I would have generated an 8pt signal with the EasyWave software and probably used that for my example.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: PartialDischarge on June 12, 2016, 05:16:57 am
Also note that the minimum pulse rise time is said to be 8.4ns in the specs (thats in arb mode), but its not, it can go down to 4.5ns in dds mode :-+
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bson on June 12, 2016, 05:25:09 am
Oh, so it doesn't interpolate between the last and first sample in a recurring DDS waveform?  This explains a few things.  That's also braindead IMO.  This means a repeating waveform has to be oversampled into N*4+1 samples and decimated to N+1 before uploading to the generator, when you really want an N sample long repeating waveform.   :palm:
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: pascal_sweden on June 12, 2016, 01:30:32 pm
How big are the sample rates with the Siglent SDG1025?

Is it there more consistent and 125 MSa/s both for DDS mode and ARB mode? In that case the SDG1025 performs better than the SDG2042X in ARB mode? Really?

Does the SDG1025 also do interpolation?

Regarding no interpolation on SDG2042X between the last and first sample in a recurring DDS waveform.
Could this be fixed in a firmware update? Maybe this can be reported to Siglent?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: CustomEngineerer on June 12, 2016, 08:18:08 pm
The SDG1025 doesn't have TrueArb, only DDS. It uses DDS for generating both the builtin waveforms as well as the arbitrary waveforms.

Edit: Good explanation of SDG1000 DDS vs SDG2000X TrueArb sample rates from rf-loop can be found here
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/best-arbitrary-waveform-generator-for-around-$500/msg756726/#msg756726 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/best-arbitrary-waveform-generator-for-around-$500/msg756726/#msg756726)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Timpert on June 12, 2016, 08:26:51 pm
Could it be possible that the FPGA passes its data to the DAC chip at 300 MSPS instead or 1.2 GSPS? The DAC is equipped with configurable on-chip interpolation filters up to 8x, so getting the sample rate up to 1.2 GSPS requires configuriguration of the on-chip interpolation to 4x and feeding data in at 300 MSPS per channel. Perhaps the folks at Siglent used another round of upsampling in the FPGA to brush up the arb waveform signal fidelity, so that it is usable right up to the Nyquist frequency? Having to carry "only" 300 MSPS (or even 150 MSPS in true ARB mode with the DAC set to 8x upsampling) to the DAC instead of 1.2 GSPS simplifies hardware design and FPGA workload, so I'd more or less expect Siglent to do something like this in a cost-concious product.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: pascal_sweden on June 12, 2016, 08:46:51 pm
Thanks for the links to the documents from Tektronix and National Instruments.
I will go through these documents, and come back if I still have questions :)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Siglent America on June 17, 2016, 12:25:07 pm
Hello all.

Another nice new firmware update on the Siglent SDG2000X generators. It adds some new features - such as the ability to Combine CH1 & CH2 - as well as fixes some bugs.. Here is the FW link and what it does:

    You can download the firmware from the below URL:
http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDG2000X-P21R2.rar (http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDG2000X-P21R2.rar)

    The new firmware details:
-------------------------------------------
1. Added Waveform Combination function, to support combining CH1 and CH2 from internal to generate complex signals such as sine + noise and two-tone. The set path: Utility | Output Setup | Wave Combine
2. Added mode selection: “Phase-Locked”and “Independent”. In “Phase-Locked” mode the generator resets both channels every time the frequency is changed to maintain synchronization automatically.
In “Independent”mode the generator will not reset any channel when the frequency is changed; the phase difference between channels is random. The set path: Utility | mode
3. Fixed several bugs
        a) Can not remove files with illegal characters
        b) In burst mode, press the soft key for cycles, it changes to infinite right off the bat
        c) External modulation input inverted compared to convention
        d) Can not remember the clock source setting
        e) Some unexpected glitches when enabling the output or change the parameters
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: uncle_bob on June 17, 2016, 12:33:58 pm
Hello all.

Another nice new firmware update on the Siglent SDG2000X generators. It adds some new features - such as the ability to Combine CH1 & CH2 - as well as fixes some bugs.. Here is the FW link and what it does:

    You can download the firmware from the below URL:
http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDG2000X-P21R2.rar (http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDG2000X-P21R2.rar)

    The new firmware details:
-------------------------------------------
1. Added Waveform Combination function, to support combining CH1 and CH2 from internal to generate complex signals such as sine + noise and two-tone. The set path: Utility | Output Setup | Wave Combine
2. Added mode selection: “Phase-Locked”and “Independent”. In “Phase-Locked” mode the generator resets both channels every time the frequency is changed to maintain synchronization automatically.
In “Independent”mode the generator will not reset any channel when the frequency is changed; the phase difference between channels is random. The set path: Utility | mode
3. Fixed several bugs
        a) Can not remove files with illegal characters
        b) In burst mode, press the soft key for cycles, it changes to infinite right off the bat
        c) External modulation input inverted compared to convention
        d) Can not remember the clock source setting
        e) Some unexpected glitches when enabling the output or change the parameters

Hi

As an owner of one of these generators, let me thank you for posting this. It is definitely a plus to get both a heads up on updates *and* an explanation of what to expect when I do the update.

Thanks!

Bob
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: nugglix on June 17, 2016, 01:38:35 pm
As an owner of one of these generators, let me thank you for posting this. It is definitely a plus to get both a heads up on updates *and* an explanation of what to expect when I do the update.

Thanks!

+1

Really nice to know in advance what has been changed.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bson on June 17, 2016, 04:30:40 pm
Lots of good fixes there - can't wait to get it installed!
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: CustomEngineerer on June 17, 2016, 04:41:24 pm
Hello all.

Another nice new firmware update on the Siglent SDG2000X generators. It adds some new features - such as the ability to Combine CH1 & CH2 - as well as fixes some bugs.. Here is the FW link and what it does:

    You can download the firmware from the below URL:
http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDG2000X-P21R2.rar (http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDG2000X-P21R2.rar)

    The new firmware details:
-------------------------------------------
1. Added Waveform Combination function, to support combining CH1 and CH2 from internal to generate complex signals such as sine + noise and two-tone. The set path: Utility | Output Setup | Wave Combine
2. Added mode selection: “Phase-Locked”and “Independent”. In “Phase-Locked” mode the generator resets both channels every time the frequency is changed to maintain synchronization automatically.
In “Independent”mode the generator will not reset any channel when the frequency is changed; the phase difference between channels is random. The set path: Utility | mode
3. Fixed several bugs
        a) Can not remove files with illegal characters
        b) In burst mode, press the soft key for cycles, it changes to infinite right off the bat
        c) External modulation input inverted compared to convention
        d) Can not remember the clock source setting
        e) Some unexpected glitches when enabling the output or change the parameters

Thank you Siglent! This sounds like a great update. Adding a very nice new feature that I hadn't specifically heard anyone ask for and making several changes that I have seen people asking for. Very good indication that you are paying attention to us. Clearly you are listening to your users.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on June 17, 2016, 07:51:01 pm
Lots of good fixes there - can't wait to get it installed!
Some of those fixes ^^^are no doubt from your efforts.  :-+
Thanks.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: pascal_sweden on June 17, 2016, 08:00:48 pm
Dear Siglent! Thanks for the good work!

What about the fix for no interpolation on SDG2042X between the last and first sample in a recurring DDS waveform.

Could this be fixed in the next firmware update? :)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: JohnG on June 17, 2016, 09:45:15 pm
Installed new firmware, no problems so far.

Thanks very much for keeping this up to date. The output sync and the bug fixes are very helpful to me, much appreciated. Based on my experience and this kind of support, my employer now has 4 of these generators, and is has purchased some additional equipment as well. Please pass this along to the powers that be at Siglent, because I would like this kind of support to continue.

John
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: alank2 on June 17, 2016, 10:02:07 pm
Updated mine without issue.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: CustomEngineerer on June 17, 2016, 10:19:07 pm
Dear Siglent! Thanks for the good work!

What about the fix for no interpolation on SDG2042X between the last and first sample in a recurring DDS waveform.

Could this be fixed in the next firmware update? :)

I'm still not sure that this is a bug, it could be working as designed for whatever reason. Has anyone actually reported this to Siglent as a bug? If so, what was their response?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bson on June 18, 2016, 02:25:05 am
        d) Can not remember the clock source setting
Still not seeing this fixed... I plug in the external standard, set the clock to external, power cycle, and it comes back up with the source set to internal.  So still need to reach in behind the instrument to unplug it each time I power off the instrument. :(

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: CustomEngineerer on June 18, 2016, 02:33:24 am
Dear Siglent! Thanks for the good work!

What about the fix for no interpolation on SDG2042X between the last and first sample in a recurring DDS waveform.

Could this be fixed in the next firmware update? :)

Alank2 gives a good explanation of how believes the the SDG2000X to behave in DDS mode earlier in this thread. See

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/msg794951/#msg794951 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/msg794951/#msg794951)

If he is correct, and what he says seems to make sense with what I have seen, then the non interpolation between the first and last sample would seem to make sense. Though without asking Siglent I don't think we can know for sure if its a bug or doing what it supposed to.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: CustomEngineerer on June 18, 2016, 06:35:06 am
I updated the firmware with no issues. Also wanted to add, the new helpful displays when enabling/setting the new combine waveform output and phase locked mode are very helpful and very nicely done. Good job Siglent!
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: CustomEngineerer on June 18, 2016, 06:42:31 am
Heads up for those of you that have hacked your SDG2000X, Siglent have added a username/password required for logging in through telnet potentially closing the hole. If you have already hacked it before the update you are probably fine, but I couldn't say for sure as mine wasn't hacked.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on June 18, 2016, 06:59:12 am
Heads up for those of you that have hacked your SDG2000X, Siglent have added a username/password required for logging in through telnet potentially closing the hole. If you have already hacked it before the update you are probably fine, but I couldn't say for sure as mine wasn't hacked.
Thanks for the "heads up".  :scared:

Just checked to see if member analogNewbie who found the hole is still an active member and yes he was online yesterday.

Let's see if he spots this FW improvement
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: CustomEngineerer on June 18, 2016, 07:04:17 am
Good news for those of you who have hacked your generators. You can easily downgrade to the previous firmware version and the telnet username/password restriction is gone. So its definitely not completely closed for good. I have no idea if you hack it before upgrading to the newest firmware if it remains hacked, sorry.

Edit: new text below

For me the new features added in the most recent firmware are definitely worth it.

Rob, have you heard anything about Siglent every actually selling the bandwidth upgrades? I currently have no use for >40MHz, but if I ever get to that point that was something I was hoping would finally be available. And it seems like with each new firmware Siglent attempts to close the hacking hole, at least partially, so hacking may not be an option at that time. Though I would be perfectly happy paying for the extra bandwidth, just not a completely new generator to get it.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: TheSteve on June 18, 2016, 07:39:42 am
Can the firmware be unpacked manually so we can see the passwd and shadow files? Would be fun to see how long a password cracker would take.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: CustomEngineerer on June 18, 2016, 09:11:35 am
I had a similar thought earlier and grabbed the passwd and shadow files from the previous firmware and tried running John the Ripper against them but its been so long since I have used John or anything like it that I'm probably not really doing it the correct way. The couple of ways I tried it produced no results.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on June 18, 2016, 10:48:46 am
Rob, have you heard anything about Siglent every actually selling the bandwidth upgrades? I currently have no use for >40MHz, but if I ever get to that point that was something I was hoping would finally be available. And it seems like with each new firmware Siglent attempts to close the hacking hole, at least partially, so hacking may not be an option at that time. Though I would be perfectly happy paying for the extra bandwidth, just not a completely new generator to get it.
Nothing at all, not even a mention in my pricelists. All I have been told is BW upgrade functionality had slowly been added to all ranges in case it was prudent to offer it as a saleable option in the future.
My guess is when there's enough units in the field and enough inquiry/demand for upgrades they'll enable/offer them.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: gby on June 18, 2016, 11:31:23 am
I have given this update a workout for a few hours.  So far the new functions, bug fixes are great and I have not noticed any new issues.  This version fixed a number of issues for us when using the two channels at the same frequency.  Nice smooth output waveforms when changing frequency now!

Overall a great update.  Thank you Siglent.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: CustomEngineerer on June 18, 2016, 05:29:04 pm
Nothing at all, not even a mention in my pricelists. All I have been told is BW upgrade functionality had slowly been added to all ranges in case it was prudent to offer it as a saleable option in the future.
My guess is when there's enough units in the field and enough inquiry/demand for upgrades they'll enable/offer them.

Thanks for the info. Just seems odd that they have the capability but don't seem interested in making any money off of it. Not that I needed it now anyway, so definitely not complaining.

As far as adding a username/password to the telnet login, of course it would appear that they are trying to prevent the free upgrades, though it could just be Siglent trying to make the generators more secure. Its not a good idea to have a completely open way to remote into a machine. Most people would know that you shouldn't have your test equipment hooked up to a public facing network, but I'm sure with how many people are buying these that not everybody takes those precautions, so whatever you can to do make it harder for someone else to take over your generator, the better.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: CustomEngineerer on June 19, 2016, 06:55:23 am
I figured that since there is no guarantee that the bandwidth upgrades will ever be for sell, and since Siglent is almost certainly trying to close up the holes that allow the free bandwidth upgrades (moving license file to a read only mounted drive with the previous firmware update, and adding telnet username/password with the current firmware update), that it was probably a good idea to go ahead and perform the hack now. I can confirm that updating to the new firmware with the hack already in place does work. I followed the guide from ghulands, though one issue I noticed after I had done the hack. Step 7 & 8 say

7. Use the down arrow to navigate to the line which has '<license><bandwidth_update_license>xxxx</bandwidth_update_license></license>'
8. Press dd to delete the line. Press ESC. Type :wq then hit enter (write quit)

Everyone else's file may not be like mine (though probably is). The line in my file looked like

<license><bandwidth_update_license>xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx</bandwidth_update_license></license></system_information>

So when I deleted this line, I was also deleting the closing </system_information> tag, causing the generator to report my serial number as the default serial number instead of the correct serial number. I ended up restoring my original file, then deleted the whole line up to but not including the system_information closing tag, so that line in my NSP_system_info.xml ended up just being

</system_information>

Then when I checked my serial number in the Utilitly->System Info the correct serial number showed for my generator.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: CustomEngineerer on June 19, 2016, 07:35:43 am
Found another bug.  Set the output to a 5dBm sine wave.  Use the dial to reduce it in 1dBm steps.  It won't go negative.
Set the output to -5dBm.  Turn the dial to go positive.  It won't let you turn it back down to -5dBm again.  Once negative you can go up and down, but it refuses to cross 0dBm going downwards.

I never tested this one before the update (have no reason to doubt you), but just tried it after updating to the new firmware and it is fixed.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on June 19, 2016, 07:44:23 am
Found another bug.  Set the output to a 5dBm sine wave.  Use the dial to reduce it in 1dBm steps.  It won't go negative.
Set the output to -5dBm.  Turn the dial to go positive.  It won't let you turn it back down to -5dBm again.  Once negative you can go up and down, but it refuses to cross 0dBm going downwards.

I never tested this one before the update (have no reason to doubt you), but just tried it after updating to the new firmware and it is fixed.
Holy hell.  O0
I only reported it on the 2nd of June after I confirmed for myself there was indeed a problem.  :clap:


Any outstanding bug fixes needed guys?
Sorry can't promise any fixes that fast again, they must've been in the middle of this new FW or it'd been reported from elsewhere.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: CustomEngineerer on June 19, 2016, 08:08:29 am
Thats probably the case, this firmware has been in development for a while, but still great that they were able to get this fix in that quickly.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: PartialDischarge on June 19, 2016, 02:56:12 pm
Update done, no problems. Really useful "Wave Combine" menu is available now
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bson on June 19, 2016, 10:40:46 pm
Update done, no problems. Really useful "Wave Combine" menu is available now
Yeah, that's really neat!
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: billfernandez on June 19, 2016, 10:59:08 pm
That Wave Combine feature looks pretty neat.

I thin that if I didn't follow this thread I'd never learn about all the new things Siglent sneaks into each firmware update.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Siglent America on June 20, 2016, 12:38:59 pm
Installed new firmware, no problems so far.

Thanks very much for keeping this up to date. The output sync and the bug fixes are very helpful to me, much appreciated. Based on my experience and this kind of support, my employer now has 4 of these generators, and is has purchased some additional equipment as well. Please pass this along to the powers that be at Siglent, because I would like this kind of support to continue.

John


Hi John.
We appreciate your comments. I forwarded them to the product manager and VP of Engineering at the factory.
Steve
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: CustomEngineerer on June 21, 2016, 04:37:27 am
Had a little time to play around with the new Wave Combine functionality. Very nice touch, if you have one channel output the combined waveform of CH1 + CH2, the other channel can put out its original uncombined waveform or the combined waveform like the first channel.

For the following screenshots, channel 1 is set up as a 1MHz, 1Vpp square wave, channel 2 is 1MHz, 1Vpp sine wave.

CH1 Switch = CH1 + CH2

DS2_QuickPrint1.png - Wave Combine turned off
CH1 Switch = CH1
CH2 Switch = CH2
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=235031;image)

DS2_QuickPrint2.png - Channel 1 outputting combined waveform, channel 2 outputting original
CH1 Switch = CH1 + CH2
CH2 Switch = CH2
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=235033)

DS2_QuickPrint3.png - Channel 1 outputting original waveform, channel 2 outputting combined
CH1 Switch = CH1
CH2 Switch = CH1 + CH2
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=235035)

DS2_QuickPrint4.png - Both channel 1 and channel 2 outputting combined waveform
CH1 Switch = CH1 + CH2
CH2 Switch = CH1 + CH2
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=235037)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: buyman on June 23, 2016, 06:04:23 pm
Just a quick question: basically the hack is working until P21R2 from one week ago?

I do not really need a signal generator, but if I buy one know I'd rather stick with one which is "upgradable" and the ones available know, e.g. at Batronix should still have the old firmware(s).
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on June 23, 2016, 08:09:10 pm
Welcome to the forum.

Any dealers that have existing stock more than likely they will have older FW so you should be able to buy with confidence, this thread will get updates to your hack question in the next week or so, best you keep an eye on it.  ;)

Edit
Some analysis of the new FW is happening.  ;)
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ads-firmware-file-format/msg968465/#msg968465 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ads-firmware-file-format/msg968465/#msg968465)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: highwayman on June 24, 2016, 02:12:30 am
Just a quick question: basically the hack is working until P21R2 from one week ago?

I think that most others mileage may vary, but I cannot telnet thru PuTTY or Linux after upgrading to P17R5 months ago.  I have a username/password at the PuTTY telnet login.  Or no viable connection in Linux.  Good luck!
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: kmike on June 24, 2016, 12:00:19 pm
Just a quick question: basically the hack is working until P21R2 from one week ago?

I think that most others mileage may vary, but I cannot telnet thru PuTTY or Linux after upgrading to P17R5 months ago.  I have a username/password at the PuTTY telnet login.  Or no viable connection in Linux.  Good luck!

If You dont mind taking the generator apart, the upgrade is still possible using the serial port header on the processor board.
Look in the other thread mentioned above, I have posted the pinout there.

br,
mike
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: janekivi on June 24, 2016, 04:37:17 pm
SDG2042X has open telnet port with no user name or password required. 

I just connected with Putty.exe to the network IP address on port 23 and got right in with no request for a user name or password.
So, I had a look around to see how the system was configured.  No surprise it is Linux based running on an ARM 7 CPU.
It was a bit of a surprise to see the log on message say "SDG800 project" which tells me that the SDG2000 FW is based on the
SDG800 FW in some way. 

Turns out they all based on SDG800
Title: Isolated outputs update
Post by: Timpert on June 25, 2016, 11:02:48 am
Hi all,

Here's an update on my attempts to isolate the generator's outputs from ground. The basic idea is to make an add-on board that contains signal isolators between CPU and generator board, and to float the power supply by adding a DC DC converter to power the CPU board. The generator board can then be floated. I have finished the feasibility research (I told you the progress was going to be slow), but before I share the conclusion, here are the criteria that I had written down for myself before I started.


I have probed all the signals on the little flat flex that connects the CPU board to the signal generator board, and here's what I found:


Miscellaneous things I needed to find out:


Making a neat board containing the signal isolators and CPU power isolated dc/dc converter appears entirely doable to me. The BNCs can be isolated from chassis by replacing them with plastic ones (there should be drop-in replacements for them) or by using washers. The last point in this list is a potential deal breaker, because it requires an irreversible mod to the chassis though, and one that has the potential to end up ugly. Strictly speaking, it can not be done in a way that satisfies my criteria. If anyone has an alternative idea, please share.

At the moment, the project is on hold, because the CPU died right after a firmware upgrade. I don't know how it happened, it looks like a nasty ESD event, but I use all the usual precautions against that. The firmware upgrade went according to the book, I played around with the neat new features for a while after the upgrade was finished, but when I pulled out the USB stick, the generator crashed. After power cycling it remained dead. The CPU's power supply IC gets rather hot, and the CPU seems to be completely dead. None of the I/O lines show any activity, including the lines that control access to the onboard flash. So the failure to boot is not due to flash corruption, it already comes before that. The LCD backlight supply stays off due to this, because the CPU must turn it on. I bought the generator from Elektor (it was on offer a while ago), so I am awaiting their response before attempting a repair myself. I know that I probably have voided all my warranty rights by opening the generator and probing around in it, but let's wait and see.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on June 25, 2016, 11:19:13 am
@Timpert
Nice analysis.  :-+

Sorry to hear of your mishap, all I can for you say is bugger.

WRT your isolation mod, did you consider a plugin module with BNC bulkhead females spaced to connect directly to the generators outputs, be powered from the USB and provide isolation to BNC males on the other side of the module.

Much in the same way the Siglent ISFE is constructed, although it uses F-F BNC adapters.

(http://www.siglentamerica.com/Uploadfile/image/20140727/20140727224728_1823.png)

http://www.siglentamerica.com/prodcut-fjxx.aspx?fjid=404&id=4688&tid=1&T=2 (http://www.siglentamerica.com/prodcut-fjxx.aspx?fjid=404&id=4688&tid=1&T=2)
These are for DSO input isolation and have 200:1 attenuation therefore not suitable for AWG outputs.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Timpert on June 25, 2016, 12:04:06 pm
@ Tautech,

Yes, I did consider making an external add-on to provide analog isolation. But it would probably be more expensive than adding isolation between CPU and GEN boards, and it would also degrade signal quality. 40 MHz is quite a tall order for such a thing... It seems to me as counterproductive to buy a generator for its good signal quality, and then degrade it with an add-on.

Quote
all I can for you say is bugger

Thanks for the comforting words.  ;)

I actually expect Elektor to deny me any warranty rights, I would have done the same in their position. Fair enough, that's a risk I took when pulling off the shiny Siglent sticker. But I won't know for sure until I have asked, maybe they're cool...

When I get a "njet" from them, I think I'll first try to replace the CPU as an exciting BGA replacement exercise, and if that doesn't work, I'll just have to swap the entire CPU board for a new one. Any idea where I could get one?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: 11Bravo49417 on June 25, 2016, 04:15:53 pm
I wish to purchase one of the older "hackable" versions of this unit from Saelig (or other distributor).  How do I ensure the firmware is old enough on the unit I am purchasing?  Also, how do I get the distributors EEVBlog discount code? 
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: PartialDischarge on June 25, 2016, 04:25:58 pm
I wish to purchase one of the older "hackable" versions of this unit from Saelig (or other distributor).  How do I ensure the firmware is old enough on the unit I am purchasing?  Also, how do I get the distributors EEVBlog discount code?
I dont see wheres the problem, since version 21R2 is downgradable to 17R5 which has the open ethernet port, at least mine did
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: CustomEngineerer on June 25, 2016, 04:50:05 pm
I have also been able to upgrade to 21R2 and downgrade back to 17R5 at will. But since the new 21R2 firmware just came out last week, I seriously doubt many suppliers are even shipping them with 21R2 yet.

For the discounts, if you want to buy from Saelig, they have a thread on this forum where they first announced they would honor the eevblog discount, its usually never more than a page or two back. Just post in it that you are looking to purchase something from them and someone will PM you the discount code. Tequipment also has a similar thread if you are looking at ordering from them.

Edit: You could also just ask them what version firmware is on the ones they are selling before you place your order. Though again, version shouldn't really matter.

Edit2: Tequipment no longer carries Siglent gear (thanks for reminder Tautech). Though they do still offer an eevblog discount for the things they actually sell.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on June 25, 2016, 07:53:14 pm
@ Tautech,

Yes, I did consider making an external add-on to provide analog isolation. But it would probably be more expensive than adding isolation between CPU and GEN boards, and it would also degrade signal quality. 40 MHz is quite a tall order for such a thing... It seems to me as counterproductive to buy a generator for its good signal quality, and then degrade it with an add-on.
I quite understand and after reading your analysis of inserting the isolation within the generator I only suggested it as a alternative option. The ISFE weighs so little that it just hangs from the BNC's of a DSO and while there is some wobble used with care might be better than a standalone isolator that need be cable connected.


Quote
......I'll just have to swap the entire CPU board for a new one. Any idea where I could get one?
Your supplier should be able to source you one from the factory as a spare part.
Member Lightages blew his SDG1000 AWG main PCB and contacted Siglent and sourced a replacement PCB no problems.
Ensure any contact with Siglent reveals you're an EEVblog member....maybe use the links to contact them in the Siglent Support thread.  ;)

Good luck and keep us in the loop.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on June 25, 2016, 08:00:36 pm
Tequipment also has a similar thread if you are looking at ordering from them.
TE is no longer stocking Siglent, Saelig is the preferred online seller for Siglent now.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/equipment-discounts-from-saelig/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/equipment-discounts-from-saelig/)

All of the 3 official Siglent websites have the list of authorised sellers and their contact details
http://www.siglentamerica.com/how_to_buy (http://www.siglentamerica.com/how_to_buy)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on June 25, 2016, 08:49:13 pm
@ Tautech,

Yes, I did consider making an external add-on to provide analog isolation. But it would probably be more expensive than adding isolation between CPU and GEN boards, and it would also degrade signal quality. 40 MHz is quite a tall order for such a thing... It seems to me as counterproductive to buy a generator for its good signal quality, and then degrade it with an add-on.
Further thoughts
The SDG5000 series AWG's have isolated outputs in case you weren't aware and Dave did a teardown of these, they have up to 160 MHz Sine capability (SDG5162).
There may be some clues as to how Siglent accomplished the isolation in the vid.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: CustomEngineerer on June 25, 2016, 09:12:05 pm
TE is no longer stocking Siglent, Saelig is the preferred online seller for Siglent now.

Wow, I know I know that, but clearly wasn't thinking (  :=\ <- me when posting). Thanks for the correction, I will add a note to my previous message.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Timpert on June 26, 2016, 06:46:35 am
@ Tautech
Quote
The SDG5000 series AWG's have isolated outputs
The scheme that I propose is the same as used in the SDG5000 and in the SDM3055. The SDM3055 uses the same CPU board as the SDG2000X. In both devices, the CPU is grounded, while the signal processor boards float. The isolators are at the edge of the signal boards, directly connected to the interface from the CPU. It is the most convenient spot to place the isolation barrier, and the two board construction of the SDG2000X makes it possible to place an isolation board in that device too. If it had the single board construction of the SDG1000, it wouldn't be doable.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: UNI-T_goodANDbad_FACTS on June 29, 2016, 09:19:05 pm
Hi guys,

I followed the Guide for dummies from this thread and it works smooth! More good news: at least two ships are
on the way to Hamburg with hack-able generators on board :D

I made video of the whole hack, was very easy. Very happy with my 120MHz now!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HcggjLN1LE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HcggjLN1LE)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: cio74 on June 30, 2016, 10:13:51 pm
Do you need 120MHz?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: alank2 on June 30, 2016, 11:31:39 pm
You don't even need to risk hacking it to get 120 MHz.  Just make an arbitrary wave that is 10 sinewaves and set it to 12 MHz.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: pascal_sweden on June 30, 2016, 11:37:51 pm
Is there any video tutorial about this?
This has to be hard-coded for each specific frequency right?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: alank2 on July 01, 2016, 12:12:47 am
Is there any video tutorial about this?

The file is enclosed.  Just load it into the arb mode (the CSV file extracted from the ZIP)

This has to be hard-coded for each specific frequency right?

No.  The file itself just has a number of points.  You set the frequency on the unit to 1/10th of the frequency you desire.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: CustomEngineerer on July 01, 2016, 12:15:22 am
You don't even need to risk hacking it to get 120 MHz.  Just make an arbitrary wave that is 10 sinewaves and set it to 12 MHz.

I've heard several people say that but I haven't seen anyone show results from actually doing it? How does the performance of an arbitrary waveform generated that way compare to the 120MHz builtin sine wave? I would think you would have a lot more jitter on the arb version.

Edit: Just asking because I've never seen anyone actually try it. Its certainly possible someone else has (and it was all good) and I just haven't seen it.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: alank2 on July 01, 2016, 12:18:50 am
In addition to the 2.5k points version, here is the 160k points version.

I've never tested them other than looking at them on a scope.  Perhaps someone else can do some testing and see how they compare.  You can go higher than 120 MHz, but the amplitude decreases sharply.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on July 01, 2016, 12:43:44 am
rf-loop has described obtaining the max frequency from the SDG1000 series also by using this same Arb method.

IIRC it's early in the SDG1000 and 800 thread.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: CustomEngineerer on July 01, 2016, 07:25:23 am
In addition to the 2.5k points version, here is the 160k points version.

I've never tested them other than looking at them on a scope.  Perhaps someone else can do some testing and see how they compare.  You can go higher than 120 MHz, but the amplitude decreases sharply.

Thanks. I will try playing around with it when i get some time. I've never had much luck getting decent waveforms with EasyWave software, though this is probably due to not enough time learning how to use it correctly (or even thinking the problem through like I should have). The first time someone had suggested doing similar I tried a couple of times, but just ended up with crap results. I seem to remember thinking to be able to get to 120MHz I would need to use as few of points as possible (this is what I get for not taking the time to do the calculations). Seeing how many points are in those arb files though makes sense. DDS has a fixed clock, so as long as the waveform has 6 cycles at 20MHz, it should come out to 120MHz, and the more points (up to a limit) the smoother the output should look. I wanna say I had attempted it with under 100 pts, and had probably been playing around with TrueArb mode before hand and just had the less points thing stuck in my head  :palm:
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: CustomEngineerer on July 01, 2016, 07:51:03 am
I had to give it a try before going to bed. Ran the 2.5K arb version on ch1 at 10MHz (so 120MHz output) and used the builtin sine on ch2 at 120MHz. Put both on the scope at the same time, overlapping one on the other and they line up perfectly. No drifting, both looked clean. I don't have the equipment to do any serious analysis of the waveforms, but using the arb method appears to be a valid replacement for using the builtin sine.

Thanks for the info.

Edit: I found why I was thinking an arb version wouldn't be as clean as the built-in waveform. From an Agilent doc, Measurement Tips: Comparing Function Generator Performance: Direct Digital Synthesis Versus Point-by-Point Technology
http://cp.literature.agilent.com/litweb/pdf/5990-7460EN.pdf (http://cp.literature.agilent.com/litweb/pdf/5990-7460EN.pdf)

On the third page there is a "Measurement Tip" that states
Quote
If you are using a DDS arbitrary waveform generator such as the Agilent 33220A and you want to create a square wave or pulse function, for the best performance, use the built-in waveform instead of creating the waveform yourself with the arb function. The built-in square and pulse waveform generation techniques are different from the standard DDS technique. Agilent has carefully chosen these techniques to eliminate distortion due to aliasing at higher frequencies.

Of course thats talking about Agilent generators and square/pulse waveforms, so does not apply to a sine wave generated on a Siglent generator  :palm:
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bson on July 01, 2016, 09:06:53 am
Here are the two csv files, viewed on the Signal Hound running off a Thunderbolt for reference.  The SDG2122X is using is internal clock source.

2.5k

(http://www.rockgarden.net/download/eevblog/sine_2.5k_10x.png)

160k

(http://www.rockgarden.net/download/eevblog/sine_160k_10x.png)

No real difference to speak of.  (I centered the second one on the peak, but forgot to do so on the first.)

Output is 250mV 200mV pp, 50ohm... ARB mode doesn't appear to allow specifying the output level in dBm.  :-//
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bson on July 01, 2016, 09:16:44 am
Here's the internal one, using the sine waveform.  Looks a little cleaner.  Again, I forgot to center it on the peak... getting late.  :palm:

(http://www.rockgarden.net/download/eevblog/sine_120m_builtin.png)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: cio74 on July 01, 2016, 02:19:00 pm
Apologies for the off topic, which Signal Hound SA do you have?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bson on July 01, 2016, 06:03:54 pm
Apologies for the off topic, which Signal Hound SA do you have?
SA44B
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: cio74 on July 01, 2016, 06:43:48 pm
Apologies for the off topic, which Signal Hound SA do you have?
SA44B

I am looking at the combo with the TG44A, quite the price of the Siglent SA but it looks to have more features.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bson on July 01, 2016, 11:15:00 pm
I am looking at the combo with the TG44A, quite the price of the Siglent SA but it looks to have more features.
I got the TG44 to go with it, but frankly it's exceedingly limited.  I wouldn't bother and instead put the money towards a used VNA.

Some limitations:
* Can't do log sweeps
* Spike can't display magnitude in V
* It's possible to rig it to measure the reflection coeff, but it can't for instance measure reverse isolation which makes it very difficult say to calculate the input impedance for a specific load
* It's only scalar - so can't be used for impedance matching (can't determine its conjugate impedance)

Just get a 2-port VNA that can measure S params both ways and provides phase information...

Edit: oh, and I forgot to mention the TG or Spike doesn't seem to have an amplitude control for the TG; changing the amplitude requires external pads.  Hence it obviously won't do an amplitude sweep... which in turn means it can't calculate the IP3 or such.  It's very, very, very super basic to the point of not being worth the bother.

The SA44B is great to look at signals though, although its FFT span is only 250kHz.  (The BB60 steps up to I think 27MHz in this regard, so you can sit and watch and record frequency hopping in the time domain!)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: McBryce on July 05, 2016, 07:20:08 pm
Hi all,
     I got an SDG2042X today. Upgraded it to 120MHz and then upgraded the Firmware. There's now a small lock symbol with a "P" to the left of the network symbol. Can anyone tell me what this means. I don't think it was there before I upgraded the firmware.

McBryce.

Edit: Forget the question. It shows that the phase lock is on :) Btw. I can also confirm that the "liberated clock" remains after a firmware upgrade.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Timpert on July 05, 2016, 08:08:14 pm
To see if I could do it, I tried to replace the CPU on my broken CPU board. At least now I know that this was a bit beyond my soldering skills. But anyway, since I had voided my warranty because I probed around inside my device, I thought I'd probe around a bit more. More specifically, I probed the SYSBOOT[15:0] pins when I had the CPU off the board. These determine the boot order amongst other things. Normally, the boot order is NAND, NANDI2C, MMC0 (which is the on board SD card), UART0 (which is the UART board on the short edge of the board. With jumper J16 installed, this changes into UART0, XIP (not present, so it is skipped), MMC0, NAND. So with J16 installed, you could probably boot one of the many available Linux images that run on the Sitara processor from the SD card...

Still trying to get a replacement CPU board though. It appears to be difficult.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on July 05, 2016, 08:45:34 pm
........

Still trying to get a replacement CPU board though. It appears to be difficult.
How so?
Your supplier should be able to source one.  :-//

Let me know if I can help.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Timpert on July 05, 2016, 09:11:32 pm
Well, my original supplier (Elektor) simply isn't answering my request, so I contacted a Dutch Siglent dealer, and they are now trying to get a quote for a new CPU board from Siglent. But apparently, a request like mine happens very rarely, and so getting Siglent to fish a replacement board out of their logistics chain and put a price on it is going to take some time. But they're working on it. The only thing I can do now is be patient. And I am as good at that as I am good at BGA rework...
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on July 05, 2016, 09:49:48 pm
Well, my original supplier (Elektor) simply isn't answering my request, so I contacted a Dutch Siglent dealer, and they are now trying to get a quote for a new CPU board from Siglent.  But they're working on it. 
If needed you can contact Siglent in Hamburg directly, explain Elektor has not been timely in offering support and/or point them to EEVblog (thread or post) to seek assistance.
As I've mentioned member Lightages had little trouble sourcing a replacement PCB for his SDG1k series AWG.
http://www.siglenteu.com/lxwms.aspx?id=1110 (http://www.siglenteu.com/lxwms.aspx?id=1110)

Quote
But apparently, a request like mine happens very rarely, and so getting Siglent to fish a replacement board out of their logistics chain and put a price on it is going to take some time.
:bullshit:

Quote
The only thing I can do now is be patient.
:-+
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Timpert on July 06, 2016, 11:52:44 am
Just today I got the message that Siglent will repair the generator for me, I have to send it to them. The price is very reasonable, and I want a working generator, so I'll do it. Kudos go to eleshop.nl for picking up the after sales service!
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: McBryce on July 14, 2016, 08:22:17 am
Hi all,
     finally got some time to properly try out most of the features of my new SDG2042X last night and came across something strange:

If I choose a square wave at 25MHz I get a 25MHz wave with a rise time of 8.2ns (pretty much what the datasheet implies - 9ns). However, if I now press the sweep button and leave the parameters at "sweep start" 25MHz and "sweep end" at 25MHz, the unit is now outputing a much nicer 25MHz square wave with a 3.0ns rise time??

Can anyone else confirm this on their unit?

McBryce.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: alank2 on July 14, 2016, 01:03:58 pm
I can confirm this - and I have pointed it out to Siglent.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: McBryce on July 14, 2016, 01:09:41 pm
So it's a bug that improves performance?? So why can't it just do square waves with a rise time of 3ns all of the time?

McBryce.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: alank2 on July 14, 2016, 01:14:54 pm
So it's a bug that improves performance?? So why can't it just do square waves with a rise time of 3ns all of the time?
McBryce.

Apparently - I assume there is an issue where the IC used to generate the waveform simply performs a little better when in "sweep" mode.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: PartialDischarge on July 14, 2016, 02:12:30 pm
So it's a bug that improves performance?? So why can't it just do square waves with a rise time of 3ns all of the time?
McBryce.

Apparently - I assume there is an issue where the IC used to generate the waveform simply performs a little better when in "sweep" mode.

Not sure about that. The spec of 8.4ns applies for Arb mode. In DDS mode I can get rise times of 4.5ns, maybe the sweep mode uses this mode...
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: McBryce on July 14, 2016, 08:01:08 pm
Exactly. So why aren't they using the DDS mode to create the square wave signals all of the time?

McBryce.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on July 14, 2016, 08:36:56 pm
Exactly. So why aren't they using the DDS mode to create the square wave signals all of the time?

McBryce.
IMO the answer is signal fidelity.
We all know the faster you drive signals the harder it is to maintain good fidelity.
If it was not a SG it would not matter too much about signal shape.

Re-read the website claims and tell me I'm wrong.
http://www.siglentamerica.com/pdxx.aspx?id=1364&T=2&tid=16 (http://www.siglentamerica.com/pdxx.aspx?id=1364&T=2&tid=16)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: jjoonathan on July 14, 2016, 11:04:43 pm
Here is the superposition of 20,21,22,23,24,25MHz square waves with SWP=off (yellow) and SWP=on (pink).

https://postimg.org/image/3y5qq3kef/

Evidently in the current implementation you can have sharp edges or the much-ballyhooed smooth control over width, but not both.

EDIT: the "quantum" of distance between the purple edges is t?3.38ns, 1/t?300MHz.

EDIT2: I see some ripple on the top of the square wave when I make fine adjustments to the frequency with SWP=off. I also see smoother width increments than I would expect from the 1.2GS/s DAC frequency. Seems they've implemented their constant-width square waves with a digital filter that trades bandwidth for slope positioning rather than by playing with the DAC clock. It also seems that for SWP=on they use their usual arb path rather than a counter that bypasses the interpolater. Ah well.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: pascal_sweden on July 14, 2016, 11:25:25 pm
Was that measurement made on a Rigol DS4000 series?

The menu structure looks nicer than the Rigol DS1000Z series :)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: jjoonathan on July 15, 2016, 12:19:31 am
Yep, it's an old (dec 2011) DS4014 hacked up with decodes and 500MHz. I do like the menus and other creature comforts it has over the DS1054Z I got started with (slightly faster UI compositing, dedicated menu hide & scroll buttons on both sides, separate channel offset/scale knobs, auto-scaling probes, 50ohm/ac/bw lights, segmented memory, 50% trig button) but unfortunately the firmware is notably crustier. For the longest time, decodes didn't work in segmented memory, now they *only* work in segmented memory. Older versions had freezing issues, newer versions have herky-jerky scrolling at 1ns/div scale. If I had payed Rigol's asking price for any of the extras, I'd be pissed: Agilent price at a fraction of Agilent quality. Unhacked, it's not really competitive in its price bracket, especially with Agisight getting serious about discount refurbs. My guess is that Rigol wrote it off and is focusing on their next iteration of professional scopes, only keeping it in their catalog so that they can claim experience in the price bracket while selling remaining inventory to the captive audience of the Chinese defense industry.

Hacked, it's pretty good, at least until the fine fellows over in the DSOX thread figure out how to hack a DSOX3014 to a DSOX3104  :popcorn:

EDIT: oh, and ADC3 (pink) is dying -- rail-to-rail noise after a cold startup that goes away as it heats up. I'm not sure whether it's due to a bad bond wire, 3 years of the previous owner running the poor ADCs at 85C without heatsinks, or both, but Rigol wants $1k for the repair. That's fine, I got it for $1k off the sticker price on ebay, and I might even be able to make do with a $130 replacement ADC I got off taobao. It's been an adventure, and that suits me just fine, but it's not what most people are looking for in a professional scope. Look out for a post when ADC3 finally kicks the bucket and I make the swap; regardless of the outcome it's bound to be entertaining.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: alank2 on July 15, 2016, 10:48:33 pm
Rigol once told me that their out of warranty repair was:

>Our out-of-warranty repair prices are quite reasonable. It is $250 or 10% of the purchase price, whichever is greater..
>plus shipping to/from our repair office in Cleveland, OH.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: gby on July 16, 2016, 11:54:04 am
Hi all,
     finally got some time to properly try out most of the features of my new SDG2042X last night and came across something strange:

If I choose a square wave at 25MHz I get a 25MHz wave with a rise time of 8.2ns (pretty much what the datasheet implies - 9ns). However, if I now press the sweep button and leave the parameters at "sweep start" 25MHz and "sweep end" at 25MHz, the unit is now outputing a much nicer 25MHz square wave with a 3.0ns rise time??

Can anyone else confirm this on their unit?

McBryce.

This is a known quirk of this signal generator.   Please my post #94 from January this year that explains how this difference in square wave rise time occurs.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/msg834806/#msg834806 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/msg834806/#msg834806)

The real question is what is the logic behind Siglent's choices for when the Analog Devices D/A internal interpolator is turned on (lower rise times) and when it is turned off (output steps to new sample for faster rise time)??  As I noted in my earlier post it might be nice if Siglent added to the FW to be able to turn the D/A chip interpolator on/off.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: jjoonathan on July 16, 2016, 12:20:00 pm
Rigol once told me that their out of warranty repair was:

>Our out-of-warranty repair prices are quite reasonable. It is $250 or 10% of the purchase price, whichever is greater..
>plus shipping to/from our repair office in Cleveland, OH.

That's what I thought. I even mentioned that tidbit to them, although at the time I was writing the ticket I thought I was remembering the $250 figure from a webpage somewhere rather than from a post of yours.

Quote
I have an old DS4014, serial DS4A1350----, purchased used from testbox, which I suspect is out of warranty. Channel 3 has rail-to-rail noise for 10-60 seconds after a cold startup. It isn't actually dead but I anticipate it dying soon and want to figure out what my options are so that I can plan ahead. From what I can find on your warranty page, this out-of-warranty repair would cost $250+parts+shipping, is that correct?

Notice how I sneak in "+parts". $250+shipping is around the cost of a replacement ADC but with less risk and is therefore preferable. $250+parts+shipping is not. I'm trying to force the question.

Quote
Hello Jon,

My name is ------------ and I am an Applications Engineer at RIGOL Technologies USA. Thank you for writing in.

Yes. That is out-of-warranty.

It was manufactured in 2011. The warranty likely expired in 2014 or 2015. Without a receipt or invoice, I'd have to go off the serial number for the active warranty dates.

Out-of-warranty repair for the DS4014 is $920 plus shipping.

If you would like to continue with the repair, please provide the following information:

- Return shipping address

- Phone number

We also have a clearance section on our website. This area has demo and refurbished equipment that come with 90 day warranties.

https://www.rigolna.com/clearance/ (https://www.rigolna.com/clearance/)

J

I especially like the last bit. "Yup, your device's knockoff chips are dying from years of suffering at 85C under our crappy thermal design, we want to charge you almost as much as the device costs for a repair, would you please consider buying a new one with 1/12th our standard warranty?"

 :-DD

In your dreams, Rigol. In your dreams.

Quote
Thanks for the prompt reply.

Ouch, $920 is steep, but at least it makes the repair/replace decision easy. And frees me to take a swing at the issue myself. Any chance you guys would be willing to sell me a MXT2001 ADC? I'm not going to be in China for the next 5 months or so and they don't stock them on DigiKey.

Cheers,
Jon

No prompt reply (or any reply) this time, of course. Hardly surprising, but they had a second chance to impress me ($250/10% out-of-warranty repairs would have been impressive in my book) and they did not.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: rf-loop on July 17, 2016, 07:33:51 am
Topic: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: pherdie on July 23, 2016, 03:18:59 am
Old timer getting back into electronics after 20 years, so please be patient.

I have a 2042X and I have a PE4302 attenuator board from China. I am trying to test drive the serial input with the 2042X and learn a little about both. I am aware the parallel input can also be used to input.

A clocked 10MHZ and a 10MHZ six bit word is required to set the various attenuation levels. I want to be able to generate all six bit binary input permutations required to fully test the device. The best I have done is generate a 10MHZ clock on channel 1 and a six bit 10MHZ pulse train, manually triggered, synced to channel 1 and of sufficient duty cycle to insure a good write when clocked. There appears to be no way to easily modify the individual data bits. Did I miss something here? Is there another method with the 2042x? Does the supplied software have a methodology (Mac here, no Windows and I do know Windows can run on a Mac). It would seem to me (for what it's worth) that creating a data pulse train would be just an ideal use for this wonderful device. I have to be missing something.

I will probably later drive it with something like an Arduino.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on July 24, 2016, 01:07:35 am
Old timer getting back into electronics after 20 years, so please be patient.

I have a 2042X and I have a PE4302 attenuator board from China. I am trying to test drive the serial input with the 2042X and learn a little about both. I am aware the parallel input can also be used to input.

A clocked 10MHZ and a 10MHZ six bit word is required to set the various attenuation levels. I want to be able to generate all six bit binary input permutations required to fully test the device. The best I have done is generate a 10MHZ clock on channel 1 and a six bit 10MHZ pulse train, manually triggered, synced to channel 1 and of sufficient duty cycle to insure a good write when clocked. There appears to be no way to easily modify the individual data bits. Did I miss something here? Is there another method with the 2042x? Does the supplied software have a methodology (Mac here, no Windows and I do know Windows can run on a Mac). It would seem to me (for what it's worth) that creating a data pulse train would be just an ideal use for this wonderful device. I have to be missing something.

I will probably later drive it with something like an Arduino.
Here's some threads with varying clues for you to proceed with:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/video-review-comparison-and-teardown-of-siglent-sdg5162-rigol-dg4162-arbs/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/video-review-comparison-and-teardown-of-siglent-sdg5162-rigol-dg4162-arbs/)
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/digital-signal-generators/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/digital-signal-generators/)
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1025-matlab-programming-arb-waveform/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1025-matlab-programming-arb-waveform/)

Hope those help.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on July 24, 2016, 01:16:04 am
An FFT of a SDG2042X @ 40 MHz FYI

Image borrowed from this thread:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ssa3000x-spectrum-analyzers/msg989007/#msg989007 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ssa3000x-spectrum-analyzers/msg989007/#msg989007)

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ssa3000x-spectrum-analyzers/?action=dlattach;attach=242725)

Pretty good internal reference IMO.  :)


Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: rf-loop on July 24, 2016, 10:34:46 am
An FFT of a SDG2042X @ 40 MHz FYI

Image borrowed from this thread:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ssa3000x-spectrum-analyzers/msg989007/#msg989007 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ssa3000x-spectrum-analyzers/msg989007/#msg989007)

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ssa3000x-spectrum-analyzers/?action=dlattach;attach=242725)

Pretty good internal reference IMO.  :)

It can think true freq is nearly sure inside  40MHz +/- 40Hz. If image was taken after SSA 30 minute temp stabilization with autocal enabled.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on July 24, 2016, 10:47:30 am
An FFT of a SDG2042X @ 40 MHz FYI

Image borrowed from this thread:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ssa3000x-spectrum-analyzers/msg989007/#msg989007 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ssa3000x-spectrum-analyzers/msg989007/#msg989007)

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ssa3000x-spectrum-analyzers/?action=dlattach;attach=242725)

Pretty good internal reference IMO.  :)

It can think true freq is nearly sure inside  40MHz +/- 40Hz. If image was taken after SSA 30 minute temp stabilization with autocal enabled.
It certainly was.  :)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: PartialDischarge on July 24, 2016, 03:34:11 pm
I did measure the same, SDG2042x outputting a 40mhz sine using my CTRU which has the OCXO option (0.005ppm drift, last calibrated 2 years ago).....started measuring +3hz and ended at -2hz after some time...
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: janekivi on July 24, 2016, 07:25:53 pm
I was turning too all the buttons one day
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: CustomEngineerer on July 24, 2016, 08:23:13 pm
Did it actually output at that frequency or did the setting just show that it was set?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: janekivi on July 25, 2016, 03:49:07 pm
It output what you limit in one xml there but let's say, their limits is set fear enough.
It won't output something normal over the limits.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Timpert on July 30, 2016, 02:42:53 pm
My SDG2042 just arrived back on my doorstep. It was fixed by Siglent for a very reasonable fee (€ 100 excluding VAT). The guys at eleshop.nl have arranged the repair for me, because the original vendor (Elektor) did not follow up on the request for a repair. So that's a big  :-+ for eleshop from me!
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: pascal_sweden on July 30, 2016, 04:02:10 pm
Interesting to learn that Elektor provides such a bad service.
Aren't they the one behind the Elektuur magazine (Elektor magazine), which is promoting DIY electronic projects? So not providing support for a repair seems like a contradiction to their entire DIY philoposphy!
Good to know that they are no good! Lesson: Stay away from Elektor and don't buy any stuff from them!
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Timpert on July 31, 2016, 10:01:00 am
Quote
Lesson: Stay away from Elektor and don't buy any stuff from them!
I would'n put it that harsh. Out of a bunch of publishers in the 80s, they are the only ones who managed to survive while staying in the DIY electronics field. All the other Dutch publishers in this field either left it or quit entirely. They must be doing something right.

They are publishers first and foremost. Their shop has evolved from a service to support their DIY articles (you could buy boards, front panel foils and the occasional piece of unobtanium) in a time when many somewhat specialized parts were really difficult to get. So there was almost no after-sales care required. The shop has always been a side activity to rake in some (currently probably hard needed) extra cash, and in cases like this it shows: when it comes to selling, you'll get the stuff you ordered. They're not the fastest shop on the planet, but they do have interesting offers every now and then which makes it worth the effort to check them out. They're simply not equipped for acting like a proper dealer for goods that might require after sales service. This is not only my conclusion, but others (most notably on Dutch forums such as circuits online and their own forum) draw this conclusion as well.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: pascal_sweden on July 31, 2016, 10:15:41 am
Fair enough! You have a point!
I was a bit surprised at first sight, but given your explanation I do understand their position.
So please do consider Elektor for your electronic projects, but don't expect the same after sales service as a real distributor. But then again your main focus of buying from Elektor is not T&M test equipment.
Title: Reflection time...
Post by: Timpert on July 31, 2016, 10:33:54 am
I think this mostly shows how dealers add value: several dealers are active on this forum, and they relay findings and suggestions to Siglent (Tautech and Siglent America spring to mind). I don't think we would have gotten the latest and greatest firmware update without the efforts of these people. Also, they enable your device to get serviced if you break something by accident. I might consider paying for that instead of hunting for the cheapest bargain.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: ian.rees on August 03, 2016, 08:05:54 am
This evening I was playing around with the busybox install in my new SDG2042X and found out about a really neat feature: If you reboot with a micro SD card inserted, it automatically blows away the flash! |O

Any chance someone might be able to help me restore the flash?  I have some of the files from the 2.01.01.21R2 firmware upgrade including u-boot.img, but don't have the u-boot-spl.bin that the TI docs refer to for doing a UART boot.  I don't (yet) have an adapter to get my JTAG (Bus Blaster) connected.  Thanks in advance!  -Ian-
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on August 03, 2016, 08:48:58 am
This evening I was playing around with the busybox install in my new SDG2042X and found out about a really neat feature: If you reboot with a micro SD card inserted, it automatically blows away the flash! |O

Any chance someone might be able to help me restore the flash?  I have some of the files from the 2.01.01.21R2 firmware upgrade including u-boot.img, but don't have the u-boot-spl.bin that the TI docs refer to for doing a UART boot.  I don't (yet) have an adapter to get my JTAG (Bus Blaster) connected.  Thanks in advance!  -Ian-
I do not have the files you seek, hopefully another member can extract them out of their unit for you.
Good luck.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: ian.rees on August 03, 2016, 10:57:39 am
Thanks!  After reading/thinking a bit more; just building U-Boot is probably the way to go.  I have a cross compiling environment for a BeagleBone anyways, seems to be the same family SoC.

Would then need to get the flash layout and a copy of the filesystem from a working unit, plus likely some things I'm not thinking of yet...  Will get there eventually.  -Ian-
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Timpert on August 03, 2016, 12:19:17 pm
Let us know how you manage to recover it... I know that sinking feeling when you realize you just broke your new toy  ;)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: McBryce on August 03, 2016, 01:36:30 pm
Is it possible to connect to a working unit via the LAN port and copy the files across that you need? If so let me know what you need and I do a CP *.* of my unit. It's a 2042X that I've "liberated" up to 120MHz. However, I think I updated the firmware since then, so I may not be able to mount the drive any more.

McBryce.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: billfernandez on August 03, 2016, 02:11:13 pm
This evening I was playing around with the busybox install in my new SDG2042X and found out about a really neat feature: If you reboot with a micro SD card inserted, it automatically blows away the flash!

Ian, a few questions:  By BusyBox do you mean the Linux utility suite?  If so, how do you install it on the SDG2042X?  And why?  Also, how/where do you insert a micro SD card?  I only see a USB connector for a flash drive.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: McBryce on August 03, 2016, 03:26:23 pm
This evening I was playing around with the busybox install in my new SDG2042X and found out about a really neat feature: If you reboot with a micro SD card inserted, it automatically blows away the flash!

Ian, a few questions:  By BusyBox do you mean the Linux utility suite?  If so, how do you install it on the SDG2042X?  And why?  Also, how/where do you insert a micro SD card?  I only see a USB connector for a flash drive.

Take a look at the teardown video, there's a Micro SD slot on the PCB inside the case.

McBryce.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Timpert on August 03, 2016, 06:36:17 pm
In post 472, I described the boot order and how you can change it. Busybox is installed from the factory. If you log into the stock R17 firmware via telnet and you type "busybox", you get a list of available commands. Has anyone tried adding a user before upgrading to R21,  to see if the user still exists after the upgrade?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: janekivi on August 03, 2016, 08:06:54 pm
Of course. But all files from update file is updated and your passwd and shadow file
contains only data what there is written from factory.
I'm trying to edit .ads file and replace some files in it...
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: ian.rees on August 03, 2016, 09:03:46 pm
Is it possible to connect to a working unit via the LAN port and copy the files across that you need?
Yes, that should be straightforward once there's a terminal and a network connection available.  I'm not too familiar with UBI (the system used for the flash filesystem), so need to figure out how to get the information about the flash layout.  I'll use a BeagleBone as a test platform and put together a set of instructions.

Two questions: What OS is your real computer using?  Does the stock firmware have tar available?  "#tar --version"

By BusyBox do you mean the Linux utility suite?
I think your questions got answered, but thanks for asking!  Somehow, I had it in my mind that BusyBox was a linux distribution, but now can see it's more of a toolset.

Has anyone tried adding a user before upgrading to R21,  to see if the user still exists after the upgrade?
As janekivi wrote, it's not quite that simple because the upgrade process overwrites the relevant configuration files.  But, I think it's not much more complicated.  For instance; if one were to cause the system to not reboot after the upgrade, they might have a good opportunity to add the users ;).  Note that the firmware upgrade script behaves differently when the root filesystem is rw...

Thanks for the notes on the boot order - good to understand.  Unfortunately I didn't read that post and understand the ramifications before popping in a microsSD - ironically, to make a backup.  Mine currently tries to boot over the UART accessible at J9 (can tell because it sends a 'C' a couple times per second).
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on August 03, 2016, 09:09:33 pm
Also we have a SDG805 user that is in a similar bind, can anybody help him too:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-sdg1000-and-sdg800-thread/msg996935/#msg996935 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-sdg1000-and-sdg800-thread/msg996935/#msg996935)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: McBryce on August 04, 2016, 12:45:25 pm

Two questions: What OS is your real computer using?  Does the stock firmware have tar available?  "#tar --version"


I have Linux (SuSE 13.something) and/or windows 7 or 10. Not sure about the second question, I didn't check.

McBryce.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: new299 on August 04, 2016, 03:25:39 pm
Thanks!  After reading/thinking a bit more; just building U-Boot is probably the way to go.  I have a cross compiling environment for a BeagleBone anyways, seems to be the same family SoC.

Would then need to get the flash layout and a copy of the filesystem from a working unit, plus likely some things I'm not thinking of yet...  Will get there eventually.  -Ian-

I've been trying to do this on the SDG805, but not getting anywhere. I can't seem to get the SPL up and running. I figured it might be useful to summarise what I've done so far though:

The AM335x has a ROM boot loader, this will accept the u-boot spl over UART one (which is exposed on the PCB) using xmodem. There are a few binary builds of the u-boot spl around, from the TI AM335x SDK and elsewhere. However none of them work for me. I suspect that the DDR memory isn't configured correctly.

If you look in the TI SDK the DDR init function read an EEPROM on the TI evaluation board, and beagle bone and set the DDR configuration and power management settings accordingly. I doubt this would work on the Siglent instruments. While they seem to have copied a lot of things from the TI SDK, I kind of expect the EEPROM and DDR config to be different. The sdg800 u-boot does refer to the beagle bone in places though, so it's possible many things are similar.

The DDR memory used on the SDG805 is a k4b1g164gg this is largely similar to a chip that's already in the ddr_config.h (IIRC). TI have a guide to setup new DDR chips in u-boot and I followed that.

I also removed some of the beagle board checks to allow the board to init the TPS65910 power management IC.

There's another thing in there that worries me, which is that on the beaglebone there's a GPIO which enables the DDR memory. I'm guessing there might be something similar on the SDG800s but without knowing which GPIO(s) to toggle it might be though figure it out.

Anyway, none of my current attempts have worked. The spl gets loaded over xmodem and I can see it display it's version header but then it just hangs. You should be able to load the reset of U-boot over Y-modem at this point. I'm back to trying to find a original siglent spl. This would all be a lot easier if Siglent followed the GPL and shared their u-boot changes as they are legally required to do.

Anyway, now I've been trying to extract a copy of the spl from the firmware update packages. No luck so far, but it does look like it's around. I'll post an update if I get anywhere.

Failing any of these options, I'm going to buy another SDG805 anyway. When I get it I'll extract the u-boot spl (and hopefully a complete copy of the rest of the flash) I'll let you know. Before I hosed my system I think I did get a copy of the kernel image, but the FS images I downloaded were corrupt.

I'd hope the SDG800 and SDG2000 are similar enough that binaries will work across both systems.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: janekivi on August 04, 2016, 06:02:08 pm
A while ago I did some experiments and add user which was gone, but I'm not a Linux guy.
Update is clearing some of the directories and write new files but can someone add somewhere
couple of commands or script which stay there and add user or something useful?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: new299 on August 05, 2016, 07:11:17 am
I've been able to recover my SDG805 to u-boot using files another user posted. I believe the same procedure should work for the SDG2042X. My notes are here: http://41j.com/blog/2016/08/sdg800-recovering-from-a-hosed-u-boot/ (http://41j.com/blog/2016/08/sdg800-recovering-from-a-hosed-u-boot/)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: janekivi on August 05, 2016, 09:02:25 pm
I'm trying to edit .ads file and replace some files in it...
Got it finally. My user is root and password is... what You think...
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: ian.rees on August 06, 2016, 05:49:23 am
Got mine recovered!  I think the problem was that the SoC wasn't actually trying to boot off the microSD card (regardless of whether J16 was shorted).  The process I used was:

0) I had copied some files from the upgrade process, before I bricked the signal generator
0+) A helpful person provided the attached uEnv.txt file
1) Strip the first 520 bytes off the MLO file (per new299's post)
2) Format an SD card FAT32, copy uEnv.txt, original MLO, and all other files mentioned in it (the names are after the fatload instructions) to SD card.
3) Get setup to provide the modified MLO and original u-boot.img over UART as described at the end of http://processors.wiki.ti.com/index.php/Linux_Core_U-Boot_User's_Guide#Using_UART (http://processors.wiki.ti.com/index.php/Linux_Core_U-Boot_User's_Guide#Using_UART)
4) Jumper J16 (not sure this was actually necessary)
5) Insert SD card in to signal generator, turn it on
6) Once the modified MLO and u-boot.img have transferred, open up the TTY in a console so you can monitor progress (or I suppose just wait a few minutes)
7) Remove jumper and SD card

As for the source of the files in step 0 - I haven't followed closely, but it sounds like janekivi can extract those from the firmware upgrades now?   -Ian-
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: new299 on August 06, 2016, 06:19:08 am
Got mine recovered!  I think the problem was that the SoC wasn't actually trying to boot off the microSD card (regardless of whether J16 was shorted).

Congrats ian! I take it you had a copy of the MLO per upgrade? Out of interest does it differ from the SDG800 MLO?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: ian.rees on August 06, 2016, 06:30:07 am
Yes, it's totally different from the one from the blog post you referenced a few messages back.

I'm a bit leery of playing too much more with mine - seems like something might be screwy with the flash memory as I'm getting UBI errors when I try to remount / as rw now.  The boot loop it was in while I was trying to get it to load off the SD card had it talking to the flash, so I guess it might've worn out part of the memory.  -Ian-
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: new299 on August 06, 2016, 07:08:02 am
Yes, it's totally different from the one from the blog post you referenced a few messages back.

I'm a bit leery of playing too much more with mine - seems like something might be screwy with the flash memory as I'm getting UBI errors when I try to remount / as rw now.  The boot loop it was in while I was trying to get it to load off the SD card had it talking to the flash, so I guess it might've worn out part of the memory.  -Ian-

Yea, it seems to do a crazy amount of flash erases/rewriting partitions during upgrades as well. Good thing is that the TSOP48 flash chip doesn't look too difficult to replace and we can recover from a clean flash now. :)

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: McBryce on August 30, 2016, 08:45:28 am
Had a strange one at the weekend with my SDG2042X (latest Firmware). I had it hooked up to a small test circuit I use for designing filters, with the output of the filter (simple LC filter) connected to a scope, terminated with 50ohms at the scope input. The FG was outputing a 1Vp-p 25Mhz square wave 50% Dutycycle (no sweep / offsets or anything else). All worked fine at the start, but after about 10 minutes the trace suddenly disappeared from the scope. The filter was fine, so I connected the FG directly to the scope and the FG output really was gone? I turned off the FG and restarted, but still no trace. Turned off again and waited 10 minutes, then the output was back.
It wasn't warm in the room, so I doubt it was a heat issue, but something resettable inside had decided to switch off. Has anyone else seen this happen?

McBryce.

P.s. The filter was a 20Mhz to 30Mhz bandpass filter, so yes, the signal (most of it) should have been getting through :)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on August 30, 2016, 11:01:38 am
@ McBryce
I've linked Siglent to your post but it's AHrs in Shenzhen now.

From the manual P125
Overvoltage Protection

If the state is set to ON, overvoltage protection of CH1 and CH2 will take effect once any of the following conditions is met. When overvoltage protection occurs, a message will be displayed and the output is disabled.
 The absolute value of input voltage is higher than 11V±0.5V when the amplitude of the generator is higher than or equal to 3.2Vpp or the DC offset is higher than or equal to |2VDC|.
 The absolute value of input voltage is higher than 4V±0.5V when the amplitude of the generator is lower than 3.2Vpp or the DC offset is lower than |2VDC|.

All I can offer/suggest depends on how your LC filter was configured and then maybe back EMF might have been the culprit.  :-\
Other than that I'm scratching my head as you are.  :-/O
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: McBryce on August 30, 2016, 02:33:55 pm
Strange, now that you mention it, it very quickly displayed something about over-voltage when I turned it on (just before the error occurred), but there was nothing connected to either of the outputs at the time, not even a loose cable. Both outputs still worked for about 20 minutes after that.

McBryce.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on August 31, 2016, 10:58:39 am
@ McBryce
Please keep us informed if there any more problems with this ^^^

If the problem repeats itself you could try disabling the overvoltage protection but it's there to protect the outputs from damage so remember you've done so if the FG outputs are likely to be exposed to any voltages. eg. injecting a test signal into the mid stages of an amplifier etc.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: McBryce on August 31, 2016, 11:46:50 am
I'll give it a few tests over the next few days and let you know if it re-occurs. Is there a quick "return device to factory default settings" method, so that I can test the device from a know condition?

McBryce.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Siglent America on August 31, 2016, 04:04:55 pm
I'll give it a few tests over the next few days and let you know if it re-occurs. Is there a quick "return device to factory default settings" method, so that I can test the device from a know condition?

McBryce.

Hi McBryce.

You can reset the SDG2000X generators to factory default by pressing the "Utility" button then "System" on the menu, then "Set to Default".
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on September 02, 2016, 03:15:09 am
Anyone have any tricks for this problem?
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sdg2042x-triggering-both-channels-at-the-same-time-in-burst-mode/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sdg2042x-triggering-both-channels-at-the-same-time-in-burst-mode/)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Plasmateur on September 09, 2016, 12:11:17 am
Anyone have any tricks for this problem?
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sdg2042x-triggering-both-channels-at-the-same-time-in-burst-mode/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sdg2042x-triggering-both-channels-at-the-same-time-in-burst-mode/)

Quote from:  Problem
Functionality I need,

CH.1 to burst with X delay @ Y frequency with Z cycles/Burst period

CH.2 to burst with A delay @ B frequency with C cycles/Burst period

Both channels must trigger from the same external/manual trigger

A bit of an update.

Firmware P21R2 fixes the issue of triggering both channels in burst mode from an external trigger.

Triggering both channels from a manual/software trigger remains unresolved. I've talked to Scott and he is relaying my issue to the factory. Hopefully there will be a new firmware update that patches this up.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: kazam on September 13, 2016, 11:44:29 am
Hi,

I just got my SDG2042X. Updated to latest firmware and seems to work just fine.

When reading the remote command manual I didn't notice any way to upload ARB data via the SCPI commands. Not a nice surprise. Am I missing something?

Is there a workaround?

/K
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Siglent America on September 13, 2016, 04:13:25 pm
Hi,

I just got my SDG2042X. Updated to latest firmware and seems to work just fine.

When reading the remote command manual I didn't notice any way to upload ARB data via the SCPI commands. Not a nice surprise. Am I missing something?

Is there a workaround?

/K

Kazam,
Please contact us at
info@siglent.com
and we will see if we can help you.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: McBryce on September 14, 2016, 07:38:29 am
I'll give it a few tests over the next few days and let you know if it re-occurs. Is there a quick "return device to factory default settings" method, so that I can test the device from a know condition?

McBryce.

Hi McBryce.

You can reset the SDG2000X generators to factory default by pressing the "Utility" button then "System" on the menu, then "Set to Default".

Quick update: I've been using the SDG2042X extensively for the last 2 weeks and the error hasn't occurred again so far.

McBryce.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: kazam on September 14, 2016, 09:16:57 am
Kazam,
Please contact us at
info@siglent.com
and we will see if we can help you.

I found this:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg2000x-remote-command-for-sending-arbitrary-waveform-data/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg2000x-remote-command-for-sending-arbitrary-waveform-data/)

I will experiment and get back to you if I run into problems. Thanks!

/K
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Ampere on September 26, 2016, 09:29:33 pm
I've been looking for a proper waveform generator to replace the function generator I built. The SDG2042X looks like the best inexpensive waveform generator currently available, but I'm hesitant because TEquipment doesn't even keep it in stock anymore. Does anyone know what's going on with that? Is Siglent planning on replacing the SDG2042X soon, to anyone's knowledge?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on September 26, 2016, 10:33:25 pm
I've been looking for a proper waveform generator to replace the function generator I built. The SDG2042X looks like the best inexpensive waveform generator currently available, but I'm hesitant because TEquipment doesn't even keep it in stock anymore. Does anyone know what's going on with that? Is Siglent planning on replacing the SDG2042X soon, to anyone's knowledge?
Saelig are now handling Siglent and offer the same discounts:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/equipment-discounts-from-saelig/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/equipment-discounts-from-saelig/)
Post in that thread for the code.  ;)

There's also a lower priced new AWG from Siglent if you don't need the BW the SDG2kX series offers:
SDG1000X series, 2 models, 30 or 60 MHz
http://www.siglentamerica.com/pdxx.aspx?id=4705&T=2&tid=16 (http://www.siglentamerica.com/pdxx.aspx?id=4705&T=2&tid=16)

Thread:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1000x-waveform-generators/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1000x-waveform-generators/)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Ampere on September 27, 2016, 12:16:35 am
I've been looking for a proper waveform generator to replace the function generator I built. The SDG2042X looks like the best inexpensive waveform generator currently available, but I'm hesitant because TEquipment doesn't even keep it in stock anymore. Does anyone know what's going on with that? Is Siglent planning on replacing the SDG2042X soon, to anyone's knowledge?
Saelig are now handling Siglent and offer the same discounts:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/equipment-discounts-from-saelig/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/equipment-discounts-from-saelig/)
Post in that thread for the code.  ;)

There's also a lower priced new AWG from Siglent if you don't need the BW the SDG2kX series offers:
SDG1000X series, 2 models, 30 or 60 MHz
http://www.siglentamerica.com/pdxx.aspx?id=4705&T=2&tid=16 (http://www.siglentamerica.com/pdxx.aspx?id=4705&T=2&tid=16)

Thread:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1000x-waveform-generators/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1000x-waveform-generators/)

Thanks. I'll check out that SDG1000X series, it might work just as well for my purposes.  :-+
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tequipment on September 27, 2016, 08:52:02 pm
Guy stick around for a week and there might be some new products on the market in this space! wink wink

Evan

Tequipment.NET
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on September 27, 2016, 09:29:47 pm
Guy stick around for a week and there might be some new products on the market in this space! wink wink

Evan

Tequipment.NET
Care to share what they may be Evan?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Tjuurko on September 29, 2016, 06:53:59 am
SDG2042X
FW: 2.01.01.21R2

1. Not work SCPI command "C2:ARWV?" for Arb Type Trigo.

Channel: 2
Arb Type: Trigo
Not work SCPI command "C2:ARWV?"

For example:

C2:ARWV INDEX,41
C2:ARWV?
Output DATA: C2:ARWV INDEX,44,NAME,Acot

C2:ARWV INDEX,42
C2:ARWV?
Output DATA: C2:ARWV INDEX,45,NAME,Square

C2:ARWV INDEX,43
C2:ARWV?
Output DATA: C2:ARWV INDEX,46,NAME,SineTra

C2:ARWV INDEX,121
C2:ARWV?
Output DATA: C2:ARWV INDEX,124,NAME,CscH

2. Faulty signal names?

Channel: 1 or 2
Waveforms: Arb
Arb Type: Built-in / Windows

Select: BlackmanH
C1:ARWV?
Output DATA: C1:ARWV INDEX, 35,NAME,Bartlett-Hann

Select: Bartlett-Hann
C1:ARWV?
Output DATA: C1:ARWV INDEX, 36,NAME,Bartlett

Select: Bartlett
C1:ARWV?
Output DATA: C1:ARWV INDEX,135,NAME,Bartlett
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Bangu on September 29, 2016, 04:15:04 pm
Greetings to all,
I am a true Newbie and I'm trying to do the editing software to get to 120MHz with Siglent SDG2042x.
The whole procedure works ... but when it comes to ESC (after deleting the line <LICENSE>) the cursor does not go to the bottom and I can not write WQ......
You can kindly help me?
Thank you all.
Bangu
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: janekivi on September 29, 2016, 05:01:59 pm
Sometimes even I don't know everything  : )
https://www.cs.colostate.edu/helpdocs/vi.html (https://www.cs.colostate.edu/helpdocs/vi.html)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: CustomEngineerer on September 29, 2016, 05:58:52 pm
Greetings to all,
I am a true Newbie and I'm trying to do the editing software to get to 120MHz with Siglent SDG2042x.
The whole procedure works ... but when it comes to ESC (after deleting the line <LICENSE>) the cursor does not go to the bottom and I can not write WQ......
You can kindly help me?
Thank you all.
Bangu

Since it does sound like you are editing the file with VI, after you have deleted the line, you need to press SHIFT-COLON, ":". Then "wq". Thats why you see the command as ":wq". The colon is significant and required.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: PartialDischarge on September 29, 2016, 06:05:27 pm
Sometimes even I don't know everything  : )
https://www.cs.colostate.edu/helpdocs/vi.html (https://www.cs.colostate.edu/helpdocs/vi.html)

That is the best online short course on vi
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Bangu on September 30, 2016, 05:50:50 am
Thanks  :clap: thanks  :clap: thanks  :clap: to all. :-+
Works fine  :-+
Bangu
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Lunasix on October 03, 2016, 10:32:03 am
Hi,

decided to buy one after reading this thread (the best advertising...), and received mine this day. First test, and seems to be very good for the price. It will be used for testing signal processing, I/Q modulator and demodulator... Next step is to upload waveforms, if possible created with Scilab.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Bangu on October 08, 2016, 04:11:57 pm
I have done the work and now my Siglent became SDG2122X.
But I can not install the USB drivers for EasyWave.
Can someone help me?
Thanks

Updating


I've install the driver usb but EasyWave don't see the SDG2122X

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on October 08, 2016, 07:01:17 pm
I have done the work and now my Siglent became SDG2122X.
But I can not install the USB drivers for EasyWave.
Can someone help me?
Thanks

Updating


I've install the driver usb but EasyWave don't see the SDG2122X
Which drivers did you install?
What OS are you using?

They are contained within the NI VISA package, IIRC it's ~550 Mb but the divers themselves are only a few Kb.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Bangu on October 09, 2016, 11:44:59 am
Thanks Tautech.
I'm installing from cd (drivers for SDG 2000x series), in Siglent's site the drivers pages does't work
I use Windows 10.
Before changing the unit everything worked, now he tells me that I have to connect the instrument.
Thanks

Lanfranco

Updating  |O

I understand, I install the device drivers and I had to install the driver NIVISA.
Now it works perfectly ..... thanks Tautech
Lanfranco
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on October 10, 2016, 07:19:04 pm
Thanks Tautech.
I'm installing from cd (drivers for SDG 2000x series), in Siglent's site the drivers pages does't work
I use Windows 10.
Before changing the unit everything worked, now he tells me that I have to connect the instrument.
Thanks

Lanfranco

Updating  |O

I understand, I install the device drivers and I had to install the driver NIVISA.
Now it works perfectly ..... thanks Tautech
Lanfranco
If you mean these drivers, then no they aren't for general instrument to PC communications, they're Labview drivers.
http://www.siglenteu.com/gjjrj.aspx?id=204 (http://www.siglenteu.com/gjjrj.aspx?id=204)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: hafrse on October 20, 2016, 07:09:04 pm
Just a quick question: basically the hack is working until P21R2 from one week ago?

I think that most others mileage may vary, but I cannot telnet thru PuTTY or Linux after upgrading to P17R5 months ago.  I have a username/password at the PuTTY telnet login.  Or no viable connection in Linux.  Good luck!

If You dont mind taking the generator apart, the upgrade is still possible using the serial port header on the processor board.

Hello,


Look in the other thread mentioned above, I have posted the pinout there.

br,
mike


It seems to be a 3.3v levels serial, can I use a serial to USB adapter to connect with it  ?
Thanks
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: awallin on October 26, 2016, 06:37:25 pm
There seems to be a new firmware P22R5 just made available
http://www.siglent.com/ENs/prodcut-gjjrj.aspx?id=1134&tid=16&T=2 (http://www.siglent.com/ENs/prodcut-gjjrj.aspx?id=1134&tid=16&T=2)
installed it and at least it installs and boots, and 120MHz output still works ;)

However in the IP-settings I thought I will almost going to have a bit of a bad day  |O
What's up with not being able to set the IP _with_the_wheel_ to something like 192.168.x.y?? When rolling the wheel the max of the first number is 99?? Using the keypad it works WTF..

otherwise seems like a nice cheap little siggen. I'll test phase-noise at work at some point..

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on October 26, 2016, 06:53:53 pm
New FW for the SDG2000X series:
http://www.siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=4960&tid=15 (http://www.siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=4960&tid=15)

12.9 Mb

From the email I was sent informing me:
Fixes:

1. Permit setting the frequency to 0. 0 Hz would mean that the DDS accumulated phase word would be held/not change with time.
2. Fixed some bugs
a) Single Channel AM Modulation Output Amplitude Is 9.3% Low
b) Manual trigger can not trigger both channels at the same time
c) SW bug regarding the modulation with noise
d) Display graphic error for displayed wave shape
a) Can not save the last state after the update




However in the IP-settings I thought I will almost going to have a bit of a bad day  |O
What's up with not being able to set the IP _with_the_wheel_ to something like 192.168.x.y?? When rolling the wheel the max of the first number is 99?? Using the keypad it works WTF..
Can others elaborate on this ^^^ so it can be reported to the factory.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bson on October 26, 2016, 10:39:42 pm
otherwise seems like a nice cheap little siggen. I'll test phase-noise at work at some point..
It's never going to lose frequency lock, so half the noise is amplitude and half phase.  Basically just measure the noise floor using a high Q filter and subtract 3dB.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: kmike on October 28, 2016, 05:50:00 am

It seems to be a 3.3v levels serial, can I use a serial to USB adapter to connect with it  ?
Thanks

If your USB adapter uses 3.3V level signals you can safely use it. Altough I would measure it first  :)

br,
mike
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: kazam on October 28, 2016, 10:10:17 am
Hi,

I just got my SDG2042X. Updated to latest firmware and seems to work just fine.

When reading the remote command manual I didn't notice any way to upload ARB data via the SCPI commands. Not a nice surprise. Am I missing something?

Is there a workaround?

/K

Kazam,
Please contact us at
info@siglent.com
and we will see if we can help you.

I sent an email. I can't get this to work and I need it to work.

/K
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on November 14, 2016, 09:48:48 pm
FYI
In an email conversation I had today with an 2042X owner that works associated with a local Cal lab....when he got his he sent it to the lab for some checks to satisfy his curiosity:

I took the 2042x up there & asked them to check it. They checked it at 1Hz which is a more stringent test than 40Mhz . It was out by 35nHz (nano hertz) the counter was plugged into their atomic clock standard as a reference. Apparently this is as good as the Agilent equivalent instrument which they have. Only the rise time is slightly better on the Agilent.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: nctnico on November 15, 2016, 11:00:59 am
I took the 2042x up there & asked them to check it. They checked it at 1Hz which is a more stringent test than 40Mhz . It was out by 35nHz (nano hertz) the counter was plugged into their atomic clock standard as a reference. Apparently this is as good as the Agilent equivalent instrument which they have. Only the rise time is slightly better on the Agilent.
There is little use quoting these kind of anecdotes because they give a false impression of the capabilities of a type of instrument. The only thing what you can rely on is the specification when it comes to accuracy (especially over a temperature range!).
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on November 15, 2016, 11:18:36 am
I took the 2042x up there & asked them to check it. They checked it at 1Hz which is a more stringent test than 40Mhz . It was out by 35nHz (nano hertz) the counter was plugged into their atomic clock standard as a reference. Apparently this is as good as the Agilent equivalent instrument which they have. Only the rise time is slightly better on the Agilent.
There is little use quoting these kind of anecdotes because they give a false impression of the capabilities of a type of instrument. The only thing what you can rely on is the specification when it comes to accuracy (especially over a temperature range!).
So you don't think that it's interesting info ?  :-//
What capabilities are you referring too, the lab was checking the instrument over for one of the company staff, that's all.
And it was done in one of NZ's top Cal labs.....most probably under controlled temp conditions too.  :P
Furthermore it wasn't even a unit that I'd supplied.  :(
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: nctnico on November 15, 2016, 12:12:03 pm
I took the 2042x up there & asked them to check it. They checked it at 1Hz which is a more stringent test than 40Mhz . It was out by 35nHz (nano hertz) the counter was plugged into their atomic clock standard as a reference. Apparently this is as good as the Agilent equivalent instrument which they have. Only the rise time is slightly better on the Agilent.
There is little use quoting these kind of anecdotes because they give a false impression of the capabilities of a type of instrument. The only thing what you can rely on is the specification when it comes to accuracy (especially over a temperature range!).
So you don't think that it's interesting info ?  :-//
No because you cannot rely on it. It is like measuring one resistor (say A) from a box with 1% resistors and if resistor A is within 0.01% stating the entire box must be at least 0.01% precise. And then there are temperature variations, aging effects, etc,etc. People have Cesium and GPSDO reference clocks for a reason when it comes to accurate time related measurements.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Dwaine on November 15, 2016, 03:46:58 pm
Newest member of the Silent SDG2042x gang.  Really liking the unit.  I bought it because of the performance and features.  Plus the firmware updates that keep coming.

Siglent nice job with this one.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: mojoe on November 15, 2016, 05:22:27 pm
My two cents on the accuracy/stability of the reference in the 2042X. A few months ago, I checked my unit against my HP GPSDO. I checked the frequency error at quite a few points from the audio range, up to 120 MHz. I don't remember the exact numbers, but the error was a linear percentage of frequency across the entire range (which is what you would expect, if things were designed/working correctly). I do remember that at 120 MHz, the error was only a few Hz. After initial warmup, the FG output was very stable.

Yes, this is only a sample of one. However, it does give me confidence that the internal reference in my unit is a very good one, for a piece of mid-range equipment. With this level of accuracy and stablity, I don't see myself hardly ever needing to use an external reference.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: MrWolf on November 15, 2016, 08:48:32 pm
Did recently purchase SDG2042X. Find it rather excellent:
- built like a tank, has very solid feel to it
- all is working according to specs
- no signs of rust  :-+
Go Siglent!  :clap:
And since more is merrier...
Did read  the app note about phase locking multiple units:
http://www.siglent.com/ENs/qyxwxx.aspx?id=1364&sid=208 (http://www.siglent.com/ENs/qyxwxx.aspx?id=1364&sid=208)
Example is done at 60Hz, rather easy case.
Can I expect phase locking to be effective in all operation
modes (DDS, Arb) up to max frequency?
What is expected jitter (ns)?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on November 15, 2016, 09:02:15 pm
What is expected jitter (ns)?
All jitter specs in the Datasheet = Max 150 ps 1 Vpp, 50? Load
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Dwaine on November 16, 2016, 09:11:07 am
I was wondering if we could put a request in to have the frequency counter feature display graphs?  At the moment, it displays just the stats.    :-+
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: MrWolf on November 16, 2016, 09:19:10 am
What is expected jitter (ns)?
All jitter specs in the Datasheet = Max 150 ps 1 Vpp, 50? Load

So are you suggesting that this is jitter number also
between two synced units  or even
phase locked channels on same units ::)?
And also same when units are synced via:
a) ext ref to both units
b) unit 1 ref out - unit 2 ref in
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: rf-loop on November 16, 2016, 10:21:33 am
What is expected jitter (ns)?
All jitter specs in the Datasheet = Max 150 ps 1 Vpp, 50? Load

So are you suggesting that this is jitter number also
between two synced units  or even
phase locked channels or same units ::)?
And also same when units are synced via:
a) ext ref to both units
b) unit 1 ref out - unit 2 ref in

There is not at all this kind of specifications.
This specification about 150ps is inside 1 channel signal cycle to cycle jitter and it is not even Max. It is Max RMS jitter! Real max jitter is peak to peak (with this we need live in real life) and this is not specified.

There is also not specified time jitter between external Ref In signal and output signal (but if specify it, then need also specify RefIn signal ... and so on.  Also I can not see channel to channel jitter.

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: MrWolf on November 16, 2016, 10:57:35 am
There is not at all this kind of specifications.

Maybe someone has 2 units and can test (40MHz+)?
Or what RF pros think? I think that probably it will
be ok with ext ref, not so sure about in-out scheme...
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Frunse on November 19, 2016, 03:39:21 pm
Hallo,
i am from Germany and got my SDG2042x this day....the Hack isn't working anymore!

You need to log in now! with Telnet ...but how is the Password.... :-//
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Lunasix on November 19, 2016, 04:57:27 pm
You need to downgrade to P17R5, and after mod you can upgrade to P22R5.

It' a great generator, I'm able to test numerical receivers, one channel loaded with an arbitrary waveform (acquired with a scope) and the other generating the carrier, modulated (FM) using a bnc cable connecting the arbitrary output to the external input.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Frunse on November 19, 2016, 06:12:22 pm
Hi, me again.

THX i did it and its works great. :-+

I dont realy need the high Bandwith ... but Stuff for free is welcome for DIY and educationel stuff at Home.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Siglent America on November 21, 2016, 03:27:00 pm
For those of you who have a SDG2000X (or any Siglent SDG) generator, we thought you might be interested in this new application note we just posted to www.SiglentAmerica.com (http://www.SiglentAmerica.com).

"Custom Waveforms using EasyWave and CSV Templates"
The zipped download also includes some example files.

http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/FAQ/SDG/EasyWaveCSV.zip (http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/FAQ/SDG/EasyWaveCSV.zip)

We are trying to post more and more helpful application notes and FAQs to our website.
We hope that you find these useful.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: billfernandez on November 23, 2016, 04:53:31 pm
We are trying to post more and more helpful application notes and FAQs to our website.
We hope that you find these useful.

Thank you for this.  I look forward to more.  In the months after I bought my SDG2042X  I spent many hours trying by trial and error to figure out this kind of thing.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: FluentsAndFluxions on November 23, 2016, 07:39:18 pm
Guy stick around for a week and there might be some new products on the market in this space! wink wink

Evan

Tequipment.NET

Is this in reference to the Rigol DG1022Z or adding distribution for Siglent function generators?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on November 24, 2016, 08:03:24 am
Guy stick around for a week and there might be some new products on the market in this space! wink wink

Evan

Tequipment.NET

Is this in reference to the Rigol DG1022Z or adding distribution for Siglent function generators?
Welcome to the forum F And F

Who knows  :-//
Evan hasn't been back to share any news with us.....yet.

It isn't Siglent distribution, Saelig look after that now and offer similar discounts.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/equipment-discounts-from-saelig/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/equipment-discounts-from-saelig/)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Dwaine on November 25, 2016, 10:59:28 pm
Guy stick around for a week and there might be some new products on the market in this space! wink wink

Evan

Tequipment.NET

Is this in reference to the Rigol DG1022Z or adding distribution for Siglent function generators?

Those new Rigol generators are still no match spec wise to the Siglent SDG2024X.   The Rigols have a better frontend display that looks better.  Again, based on specs.   Siglent wins all around.

Dwaine
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: pascal_sweden on November 26, 2016, 12:19:46 am
Fully agree!

Siglent is so much better here. They are doing great things lately!

Signal generators, spectrum analyzers, and even their scopes are getting better.

Rigol better get their act together in the long run :)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Lunasix on November 26, 2016, 09:23:51 am
The SDG2042X is a great generator, with or without 120MHz upgrade. I first bought one, and this first generator triggered two other purchase. Not so bad !
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Lunasix on November 29, 2016, 04:16:56 pm
A trap, for which I lost many hours. I was creating arbitrary waveforms with Scilab, and had a strange problem. If the waveform was quite simple, like 2 or 3 ramps, the ouptut was nice without any visible step. But if it was different, I could see samples and steps, and I had 9us between 2 samples instead of the expected 2us value. I finally found that this was due to the arbitrary mode selected (Arb Mode). The right mode is TrueArb mode, and not DDS mode !
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: MrWolf on November 30, 2016, 02:58:21 pm
Received second unit. Happy to report that Siglent has really gone to town with this puppy hardware-wise.
Clock locking via 10MHz in/out works without any noticeable jitter.

However there is sort of a bug with software...

Naturally 10MHz in/out achieves only clock lock and for getting phases right one must compensate channels on second unit for phase shift. Which brings about serious usability issue:

- turned on unit A, clock set to Internal
- turned on unit B, clock set to External
- switched ON B-ch1, phase compensated B-ch1 in relation to unit A
- switched ON B-ch2 => phase compensation lost on B-ch1!
- compensated again
- switched OFF/ON B-ch1 => phase compensation lost!

Compensation also gets lost when one changes amplitude by substantial amount (relays click).

Interesting is that phase gets thrown around by discrete amount to discrete positions - they seem to be ~3.3 nanoseconds apart.
So for example at 100MHz one could get stuff right again when poking channel ON/OFF long enough because there are 3 discrete variants for "phase dice".

Proposals how to fix this:

If possible, preserve phase between ON/OFF and range change cycles... However it may act funny with low frequencies
and automated interface operations.

Alternative: Implement soft "Pause" functionality that would just drop output to 0 but keep "internals running".
For example currently 6th "soft button" is not used in "Parameter" screen. It could be "Pause".
Also single push on Output-X button could pause (button backlight starts blinking), and two pushes in a row switch off. But latter should be configurable option as most users would not see the point to this.

In either case switching ON/OFF second channel must not throw off phase on first channel and vice versa.

If any of the above is not possible maybe there's some other way because currently one would have to keep both channels  ON all the time and hot-swap signal receivers... A bit hardcore when dealing with sensitive stuff.


Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: MrWolf on November 30, 2016, 03:13:18 pm
Interesting is that phase gets thrown around by discrete amount which seems to be ~3.3 nanoseconds.

There's more to these ~3.3ns. Unit has built in counter. When measured signal period's modulo operation with ~3.3ns is not zero counter will display Pwidth, Nwidth and duty values that are off by (at least?) ~3.3ns.
Example: 100MHz "bang on" sine will have Pwidth=13.3ns, Nwidth=-3.3ns and duty=133,3%.
If it is not possible to display correct values on on high frequencies - it should be possible to turn off these readings. Or maybe have alternative screen with nice big frequency/period readout without all the stats clutter - similar to what you have on multimeters.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on November 30, 2016, 06:59:03 pm
Interesting is that phase gets thrown around by discrete amount which seems to be ~3.3 nanoseconds.

There's more to these ~3.3ns. Unit has built in counter. When measured signal period's modulo operation with ~3.3ns is not zero counter will display Pwidth, Nwidth and duty values that are off by (at least?) ~3.3ns.
Example: 100MHz "bang on" sine will have Pwidth=13.3ns, Nwidth=-3.3ns and duty=133,3%.
If it is not possible to display correct values on on high frequencies - it should be possible to turn off these readings. Or maybe have alternative screen with nice big frequency/period readout without all the stats clutter - similar to what you have on multimeters.
Thanks for your constructive feedback.
Reply #582 reported to Siglent.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Siglent America on December 01, 2016, 03:46:12 pm
Greetings.


Regarding your issues when synchronizing two Siglent SDG2000X's together, we have brought this to the attention of the engineering head of that group. He reports that it has been entered into our database of issues to look into. I am told it is not a quick and simple fix, but it is now on their list.
Thank you for your comments.

In the meantime you might look at a video we made in this office where we achieved 4 calibrated phase, with no offset, using Unit #1 to trigger a single count (N) burst on Unit 2. We only did this at a low (60 Hz) frequency so, depending on how high your frequency is, there might be a delay at higher frequencies.

The video can be seen at
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vw1WLc0Pzjg&t=3s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vw1WLc0Pzjg&t=3s)

Another thing we did here in the USA last year is we locked two SDG5000s together and triggered / started them together so they would be phase synchronized. We have not tried this technique using two SDG2000Xs but I believe it should be the same.
You might look at Method #2.
The application note can be found at
http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/FAQ/SDG/Generating_Multi-Phase_Waveforms.pdf (http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/FAQ/SDG/Generating_Multi-Phase_Waveforms.pdf)

Hopefully, one of these techniques will give you a better result than you have had. Otherwise, you might check our FW updates on the SDG2000X periodically.

Thanks again for bringing it to our attention.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: MrWolf on December 01, 2016, 09:27:40 pm
Thanks for info, 1st class service  :-+

To solve situation I developed Method #3, settled 99.99% of the problem:

Method #2 does not work "out of the box" at VHF because there is substantial jitter which makes finetuning impossible. Solution: Use Methods #1&2 together. Clocks must be synced.

Second problem is with burst mode. There will be ~1us "rearming" delay after burst which makes VHF impossible to implement on 1 cycle basis. 99.99% solution for 100MHz: Use 1000000 cycles burst length, if your DUT can live with 1us signal gap between bursts. Mine can.

Screenshot of tested 100MHz, 4 phase sine signal attached.

Detailed procedure:

A=SIGLENT SDG2122X
B=SIGLENT SDG2122X
C=RIGOL DS1104Z

Connected with 50Ohm cables:

A-10MHz + 0.5m + B-10MHz
A-Aux + 0.5m + B-Aux
A-CH1 + 1m + PassThruTerm + C-CH3
A-CH2 + 1m + PassThruTerm + C-CH4
B-CH1 + 0.5m + PassThruTerm + C-CH1
B-CH2 + 0.5m + PassThruTerm + C-CH2

Unit A configuration:

[Utility]
(OutputSetup) => (Load) => (50Ohm) => (Return)
(CHCopyCoupling) => Track=On; PhaseDev=-90' => (Return)
(Page1/2) => (Clock) => Source=Internal => (Return)
(Mode) => (PhaseLocked)

[Parameter]
Frequency=100MHz
Amplitude=10dBm

[Burst]
StartPhase=0'
Cycles=1000000
BurstPeriod=10.000990ms
Source=Internal
(Page1/2) => TrigDelay=543ns; TrigOut=Up

Unit B configuration:

[Utility]
(OutputSetup) => (Load) => (50Ohm) => (Return)
(CHCopyCoupling) => Track=On; PhaseDev=-90' => (Return)
(Page1/2) => (Clock) => Source=External => (Return)
(Mode) => (PhaseLocked)

[Parameter]
Frequency=100MHz
Amplitude=10dBm

[Burst]
StartPhase=225'
Cycles=1000000
Source=External
(Page1/2) => TrigDelay=617ns; Edge=Up



Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: flash2b on December 02, 2016, 05:31:57 pm
Is there any simple way that I can make a screen copy on internal or USB memory for my Siglent SDG2042X ? On my Siglent SDM3055 there is an option to do a screen copy to a USB stick but this is missing on the SDG2042X. My Rigol DS2102A and DP832A also support making screen copy to USB stick.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Siglent America on December 02, 2016, 08:07:00 pm
PM sent
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: sdouble on December 24, 2016, 07:22:13 am
i do think that we would all be interested in such a feature
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Break42 on December 31, 2016, 11:28:49 am
Log Sweep issue in the 22R5 firmware

Hi all. The sdg2042 generator is one of the best tools I have. Unfortunatelly there is a bug in the newest 22R5 firmware. If the log sweep is used as follows:
- Sweep time 1sec
- Start freq    100Hz
- Stop freq    10MHz
- Direction: up
- Offset: 0 Vdc

Then the first 270ms of the 1sec period is just one frequency generated (around 90Hz), after this period till one second the sweep works as expected.
I tested this also with other freq. and after power on/off. The failure picture always the same. The linear sweep works correctly as expected.

Do you see also this phenomenon?
 
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: nctnico on December 31, 2016, 01:50:14 pm
That looks similar to my SDG1010 on which log sweep is also broken! If you look more carefully (zoom in on the signal) you'll see the log sweep isn't a sweep at all but short pieces of fixed frequencies which go up on a logarithmic scale.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: PartialDischarge on December 31, 2016, 10:50:40 pm
Its a different problem. The log sweep works without any problem from 100Hz to 500khz for example. But for higher freqeucues it seems to start after a delay. To me it seems a numerical problem where the the logarithm function that controls the instantaneus frequency is too small during that time and is rounded to 0.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: seahood on January 04, 2017, 08:00:10 am
Hello,
there is an hack for the Siglent SDG2042X which make the device from 40MHz to 120MHz.

What is the difference between the hacked 120MHz SDG2042 and the 120MHz model SDG2122X ???
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: rf-loop on January 04, 2017, 08:03:53 am
Hello,
there is an hack for the Siglent SDG2042X which make the device from 40MHz to 120MHz.

What is the difference between the hacked 120MHz SDG2042 and the 120MHz model SDG2122X ???

Least front panel label.

If used in place where need valid calibration certificate. No way.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: seahood on January 04, 2017, 08:17:52 am
hmm, this means the hacked SDG2042X has ALL THE FEATURES from the SDG2122X, ALL?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: seahood on January 04, 2017, 08:20:43 am
Ok, i understand, it has really al features, unbelievable :-)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: RoadRunner on January 11, 2017, 04:02:10 pm
updated my hacked SDG2042x to latest version firmware.
With update to Firmware Version 22R5 , i think telnet asks for user name and password.
does anybody else experienced same?


it is still hackable to 120Mhz though  >:D
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: texomobile on January 11, 2017, 11:08:26 pm
I was about to order one, but if the hack is not working any more it doesn't make sense. to me to get one. I have a wavetek 80 I guess it will have to do until the next great thing comes along. Is the version 22r5 sdg2042x currently shipping now, or are there still hackable units in the channel now for sale? has anyone received a unhackable unit recently?

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: flash2b on January 12, 2017, 08:21:10 am
You can downgrade to hackable version 17R5, do the hack, and upgrade to 22R5.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: RoadRunner on January 12, 2017, 02:29:58 pm
You can downgrade to hackable version 17R5, do the hack, and upgrade to 22R5.

i had 17R5 upgraded to 22R5 and hack was gone. so i hacked it again with some other method.
i am not sure about others.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: McBryce on January 12, 2017, 02:41:43 pm
Really? I've only done one upgrade since I hacked mine and the hack stayed. So the latest update reverses the hack?

McBryce.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: maxspb69 on January 13, 2017, 05:51:08 pm
No, the firmware update does not affect the hack.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: RoadRunner on January 14, 2017, 04:33:46 am
No, the firmware update does not affect the hack.

may be i did something really stupid, can somebody confirm if telnet still available to login without user name password.
Title: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: McBryce on January 14, 2017, 11:09:13 am
I think two different things are being meant here. For clarification:

After an update the hack is still there if it has already been done. However the hack is not possible to do after the update because a Telnet password has been added.

McBryce.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: AndyC247 on January 16, 2017, 08:53:41 pm
I  have  just got my SDG2042X and I am really liking it.

I am finding one thing a bit irritating but maybe I am missing something. It seems like the only way to set the amplitude units is to start to enter the value via the numeric keys. This causes the buttons below the display to allow the user to select the amplitude units. Once I have set an amplitude I would like to be able to change the units without changing the actual amplitude, eg V RMS to V Pk to Pk or dBm to mV RMS. There doesn't appear to be a way to do this without entering a new value.

If it isn't currently possible could I suggest Siglent consider adding this feature. For example, holding the Amplitude button down could cause the Units menu to appear, permitting the user to change the units.

Andrew
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: PartialDischarge on January 16, 2017, 09:18:57 pm
I am finding one thing a bit irritating but maybe I am missing something. It seems like the only way to set the amplitude units is to start to enter the value via the numeric keys. This causes the buttons below the display to allow the user to select the amplitude units. Once I have set an amplitude I would like to be able to change the units without changing the actual amplitude, eg V RMS to V Pk to Pk or dBm to mV RMS. There doesn't appear to be a way to do this without entering a new value.

You're right, one has to type a number and then the unit, and I'd find somewhat scary If one could inadvertently change lets say 10 mVpp into 10Vpp with one keystroke,  a switch from 10dBm to 10Vpp could be ruin instantly some RF circuits

You can, however easily change the first, second, third.... digit of a number with a quick turn of the knob.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on January 16, 2017, 09:26:23 pm
I am finding one thing a bit irritating but maybe I am missing something. It seems like the only way to set the amplitude units is to start to enter the value via the numeric keys. This causes the buttons below the display to allow the user to select the amplitude units. Once I have set an amplitude I would like to be able to change the units without changing the actual amplitude, eg V RMS to V Pk to Pk or dBm to mV RMS. There doesn't appear to be a way to do this without entering a new value.

You're right, one has to type a number and then the unit, and I'd find somewhat scary If one could inadvertently change lets say 10 mVpp into 10Vpp with one keystroke,  a switch from 10dBm to 10Vpp could be ruin instantly some RF circuits

You can, however easily change the first, second, third.... digit of a number with a quick turn of the knob.
Like any equipment that has the potential to damage a DUT one must be careful with its use as none are really idiot proof.
Simply toggle the output OFF, make any necessary adjustment, check your settings and toggle back ON.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on January 16, 2017, 09:36:33 pm
I  have  just got my SDG2042X and I am really liking it.

I am finding one thing a bit irritating but maybe I am missing something. It seems like the only way to set the amplitude units is to start to enter the value via the numeric keys. This causes the buttons below the display to allow the user to select the amplitude units. Once I have set an amplitude I would like to be able to change the units without changing the actual amplitude, eg V RMS to V Pk to Pk or dBm to mV RMS. There doesn't appear to be a way to do this without entering a new value.

If it isn't currently possible could I suggest Siglent consider adding this feature. For example, holding the Amplitude button down could cause the Units menu to appear, permitting the user to change the units.

Andrew
Welcome to the forum.

Can you check the firmware version yours came with ?
The latest version is P22R5.
You can download it here:
http://www.siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=4960&tid=15 (http://www.siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=4960&tid=15)

I'm temp out of stock but when I have some more I'll investigate your suggestion with a view to having this added to the UI.

Others that think this is a worthwhile addition ?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: PartialDischarge on January 16, 2017, 09:50:26 pm
Others that think this is a worthwhile addition ?
I for one would prefer not to have this feature as it definitively carries some risks, besides I don't see the point in changing the units of a magnitude without changing the absolute value first, but thats just my impression
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: CustomEngineerer on January 16, 2017, 11:21:32 pm
I also vote for not useful bordering on dangerous.

Edit: I am withdrawing my comment. Had just gotten home from work, and despite the fact that we are in a signal generator thread I for some reason had power supply on the brain. I was literally picturing switching from 3mA to 3A. I do not have an opinion one way or the other on the suggestion.
Title: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: kcbrown on January 17, 2017, 12:26:46 am
If one changes the units in the way suggested, the generator should just change the value shown to reflect the change in units.   Which is to say, changing the units should have no effect on the actual output, only on the displayed value and the displayed units.

At least, that's how it should behave if the output is turned on.  It's less clear whether that's how it should behave if the output is turned off.  If it doesn't change the value field when the output is turned off, then there should be a clear indication that the output strength is being edited.


(Sent with Tapatalk, so apologies for the lackluster formatting)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Performa01 on January 17, 2017, 06:46:56 am
Old RF signal generators (without soft menus) have a numeric keypad for entering values, a set of buttons for selecting the units and some up/down keys and/or a rotary encoder together with position keys to change values.

The rules for the amplitude setting are quite simple:

•   Enter a new amplitude by typing a value followed by the appropriate unit-key.
•   Change the amplitude value by using the up/down keys or rotary encoder.
•   Do a unit conversion without any amplitude change by selecting a new unit – this is done by just pressing the associated unit key.
•   The behaviour is exactly the same, whether the output is enabled or not.

That’s exactly how any modern instrument should behave, with the only difference, that the unit-keys would not be visible all the time due to the soft menu architecture. Consequently, there has to be a key to display the units menu, and it sounds perfectly plausible to use the “Amplitude” key for that.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: PartialDischarge on January 17, 2017, 07:00:45 am
That’s exactly how any modern instrument should behave, with the only difference, that the unit-keys would not be visible all the time due to the soft menu architecture. Consequently, there has to be a key to display the units menu, and it sounds perfectly plausible to use the “Amplitude” key for that.

On the SDG2042 there is no amplitude key as such, but the units menu appear as soon as you want to change any generator parameter (voltage, freq, offset)

This principle, change absolute value first, then units, applies to all the instruments modern generating /measuring instruments I have, SDG2042, Rigol DP832, Rohde CRTU, HP 3589A...
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: AndyC247 on January 17, 2017, 09:36:44 am
Tautech:  Yes using the latest software version.

Interesting responses. TBH I am a hobbyist so I don't have professional experience of modern test equipment UIs.

I guess I was just thinking of the SDG2042X performing a unit conversion for me, eg V pk-pk to RMS and dBm to mV RMS. Changing from V pk-pk to mV pk-pk would not make sense in that context. I certainly wasn't expecting the output level to change.

This is a great thread BTW, I learnt a lot about the SDG2042X by reading it ...

Thanks,
Andrew
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on January 17, 2017, 09:49:50 am
Tautech:  Yes using the latest software version.

Interesting responses. TBH I am a hobbyist so I don't have professional experience of modern test equipment UIs.

I guess I was just thinking of the SDG2042X performing a unit conversion for me, eg V pk-pk to RMS and dBm to mV RMS. Changing from V pk-pk to mV pk-pk would not make sense in that context. I certainly wasn't expecting the output level to change.

This is a great thread BTW, I learnt a lot about the SDG2042X by reading it ...

Thanks,
Andrew
Irrespective of the discussions outcome it's still good to have them as it gives some better understanding of users preferences and if the bulk of them align with the UI and that's current industry expectation then all is good.  :)
The further benefit is to enlighten others as to proper procedures and usage but enough of my ramblings, please carry on to enjoy your new instrument.
Feel free to bounce anything further that concerns you at us.  ;)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Plasmateur on January 20, 2017, 05:53:24 am
Tautech,

Do you know if the next firmware update will allow for a software trigger to be able to trigger both channels at the same time? Are they working on that for the next update? If so, do you know when that update will take place?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on January 20, 2017, 06:39:39 am
Tautech,

Do you know if the next firmware update will allow for a software trigger to be able to trigger both channels at the same time? Are they working on that for the next update? If so, do you know when that update will take place?
:-//
Can't you do that with Ch Copy/Track, then use Burst on the Tracked Ch with the start set to Ext and initiate it from an Aux In signal or use the Manual Burst start ?

All that's in FW 22R5.....now I haven't tried it as I've just got new stock today and had to fire one up to check how it might be done in the UI.
Your turn.  >:D  Tell us if that works.  :popcorn:

Ah, do you mean a SCPI command ?
Not at all conversant with them, sorry. But if the commands mentioned above are available maybe you can try that procedure ?


The last update was last October so unless something else is a problem I don't know of any updates coming soon.
I think the factory is quite busy working on some other new goodies for y'all.  :)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on January 20, 2017, 07:54:38 am
Tautech:  Yes using the latest software version.

Interesting responses. TBH I am a hobbyist so I don't have professional experience of modern test equipment UIs.

I guess I was just thinking of the SDG2042X performing a unit conversion for me, eg V pk-pk to RMS and dBm to mV RMS. Changing from V pk-pk to mV pk-pk would not make sense in that context. I certainly wasn't expecting the output level to change.

This is a great thread BTW, I learnt a lot about the SDG2042X by reading it ...

Thanks,
Andrew
Now that I have stock of these again....I do see your point and it's been passed to the factory for consideration along with Performa01's always great advice.  ;)

Regarding dB units, they are only available when the output load is set to 50 \$\Omega\$.
With HiZ output settings only V p-p and Vrms units are available.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Plasmateur on January 21, 2017, 05:39:43 am
Tautech,

Do you know if the next firmware update will allow for a software trigger to be able to trigger both channels at the same time? Are they working on that for the next update? If so, do you know when that update will take place?
:-//
Can't you do that with Ch Copy/Track, then use Burst on the Tracked Ch with the start set to Ext and initiate it from an Aux In signal or use the Manual Burst start ?

All that's in FW 22R5.....now I haven't tried it as I've just got new stock today and had to fire one up to check how it might be done in the UI.
Your turn.  >:D  Tell us if that works.  :popcorn:

Ah, do you mean a SCPI command ?
Not at all conversant with them, sorry. But if the commands mentioned above are available maybe you can try that procedure ?


The last update was last October so unless something else is a problem I don't know of any updates coming soon.
I think the factory is quite busy working on some other new goodies for y'all.  :)

Yes, with a SCPI command. Would make the unit super awesome if it could do that. That's really the only goodie I need.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on January 21, 2017, 06:29:24 am
Tautech,

Do you know if the next firmware update will allow for a software trigger to be able to trigger both channels at the same time? Are they working on that for the next update? If so, do you know when that update will take place?
:-//
Can't you do that with Ch Copy/Track, then use Burst on the Tracked Ch with the start set to Ext and initiate it from an Aux In signal or use the Manual Burst start ?

All that's in FW 22R5.....now I haven't tried it as I've just got new stock today and had to fire one up to check how it might be done in the UI.
Your turn.  >:D  Tell us if that works.  :popcorn:

Ah, do you mean a SCPI command ?
Not at all conversant with them, sorry. But if the commands mentioned above are available maybe you can try that procedure ?


The last update was last October so unless something else is a problem I don't know of any updates coming soon.
I think the factory is quite busy working on some other new goodies for y'all.  :)

Yes, with a SCPI command. Would make the unit super awesome if it could do that. That's really the only goodie I need.
I started a dialogue with the factory late yesterday, it ran until the close of day in Shenzhen and we're committed to return to it on Monday at which time I'll push some more for changes. Got some other stuff to fit in then too so I'll bash some sort of doc together over the weekend for the product manager to fully consider. No promises but I'll try to present a good case. Now where's that SCPI manual..............
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Plasmateur on January 21, 2017, 05:54:35 pm
Thank you so much. I really appreciate it.

I wonder how Chinese new year will effect the progress on this. I know some of the manufactures in Taiwan are going to be completely shut down over the course of a week.

Super awesome if they are able to get this to work.

If this unit can trigger bother CH.1 and CH.2 outputs from a SCPI command.... AND.....have a DC pulse with a set width come out of the output on the back....Nothing even holds a candle to this within this frequency range (IMO). And the guys in Ohio who came out to my lab, if they can demonstrate this functionality, it would be a huge selling point.

Also, if the salesmen in Ohio had a labtop they could hook up to this sig-gen with an awesome LabVIEW VI and/or MatLAB interface to demonstate this, I think it would catch potential buyer's attention even moreso.....is siglent Ohio hiring? I feel like I could sell these things to those who are program savvy and could realize the value this sig gen brings. I think its incredible, and with another firmware update, would bring shame upon anything else in the market within this range of frequency.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on January 21, 2017, 08:40:41 pm
Thank you so much. I really appreciate it.

I wonder how Chinese new year will effect the progress on this. I know some of the manufactures in Taiwan are going to be completely shut down over the course of a week.

Super awesome if they are able to get this to work.

If this unit can trigger bother CH.1 and CH.2 outputs from a SCPI command.... AND.....have a DC pulse with a set width come out of the output on the back....Nothing even holds a candle to this within this frequency range (IMO). And the guys in Ohio who came out to my lab, if they can demonstrate this functionality, it would be a huge selling point.

Also, if the salesmen in Ohio had a labtop they could hook up to this sig-gen with an awesome LabVIEW VI and/or MatLAB interface to demonstate this, I think it would catch potential buyer's attention even moreso.....is siglent Ohio hiring? I feel like I could sell these things to those who are program savvy and could realize the value this sig gen brings. I think its incredible, and with another firmware update, would bring shame upon anything else in the market within this range of frequency.
Can you try this:
Set the parameters and then OUTP to OFF, then *WAI (wait) followed by OUTP 's to ON
Is this a valid "workaround" solution ?

Is the VKEY command also of use to trigger both outputs ?

Commands from the Siglent SCPI manual:
http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Documents/Program_Material/SDG_Remote%20Control%20Manual(Rev1.0).pdf (http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Documents/Program_Material/SDG_Remote%20Control%20Manual(Rev1.0).pdf)

Quote
DC pulse with a set width come out of the output on the back
Can you offer a usage case please ?

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Plasmateur on January 22, 2017, 04:58:48 am
Thank you so much. I really appreciate it.

I wonder how Chinese new year will effect the progress on this. I know some of the manufactures in Taiwan are going to be completely shut down over the course of a week.

Super awesome if they are able to get this to work.

If this unit can trigger bother CH.1 and CH.2 outputs from a SCPI command.... AND.....have a DC pulse with a set width come out of the output on the back....Nothing even holds a candle to this within this frequency range (IMO). And the guys in Ohio who came out to my lab, if they can demonstrate this functionality, it would be a huge selling point.

Also, if the salesmen in Ohio had a labtop they could hook up to this sig-gen with an awesome LabVIEW VI and/or MatLAB interface to demonstate this, I think it would catch potential buyer's attention even moreso.....is siglent Ohio hiring? I feel like I could sell these things to those who are program savvy and could realize the value this sig gen brings. I think its incredible, and with another firmware update, would bring shame upon anything else in the market within this range of frequency.
Can you try this:
Set the parameters and then OUTP to OFF, then *WAI (wait) followed by OUTP 's to ON
Is this a valid "workaround" solution ?

Is the VKEY command also of use to trigger both outputs ?

Commands from the Siglent SCPI manual:
http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Documents/Program_Material/SDG_Remote%20Control%20Manual(Rev1.0).pdf (http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Documents/Program_Material/SDG_Remote%20Control%20Manual(Rev1.0).pdf)

Quote
DC pulse with a set width come out of the output on the back
Can you offer a usage case please ?

I didn't see anything in the vkey command that eluded to simulating the pressing of the manual trigger button. But that should do the trick.

The attached picture shows in theory what I'd like to do with SDG2042X, I'm not sure if I did this with the most recent update. Here we can see two different signals with two different frequencies offset with some time difference from the start of the burst.

Also, I would be using the Aux/out as a pulse delay generator, (the purple line) with some set width and some set delay(+/-) relative to ch.1 or ch.2.

It looks like this machine could do that with the correct firmware, that is.

Channel 1 - Burst mode - Set frequency, set amplitude, set cycles, set delay - trigger from SCPI and/or manual,

Channel 2 - Burst mode - Set frequency, set amplitude, set cycles, set delay relative to ch.1 - trigger from the same SCPI and/or manual as ch.1

Aux Out    - Burst mode - Set width, set amplitude, set delay relative to ch.1 - trigger from the same SCPI and/or manual as ch.1

That would be so sick if this unit could do that.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on January 22, 2017, 06:46:08 am

The attached picture shows in theory what I'd like to do with SDG2042X, I'm not sure if I did this with the most recent update. Here we can see two different signals with two different frequencies offset with some time difference from the start of the burst.

Also, I would be using the Aux/out as a pulse delay generator, (the purple line) with some set width and some set delay(+/-) relative to ch.1 or ch.2.

It looks like this machine could do that with the correct firmware, that is.

Aux Out    - Burst mode - Set width, set amplitude, set delay relative to ch.1 - trigger from the same SCPI and/or manual as ch.1
Oh dear......your scope.  :box:

Aux Out.
Width and delay could IMO be possible, but when amplitude is considered one needs to look hard at the HW for this to be considered feasible.
 
So we need look at some SDG2000X teardown pics to see if the Aux Out HW has the potential to vary the output amplitude.
As this BNC is an I/O there should be some switching and buffers, one would expect. If the buffers are only level shifters then we might be SOL. Although that wouldn't stop you from adding your own level shifter or fast amplitude stage.
Can I leave this to you, maybe come back here with a pic so we can all have a study of it.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: gmb42 on January 22, 2017, 02:14:01 pm
Oh dear......your scope.  :box:

Why denigrate another users choice of equipment, especially when you're trying to persuade him to buy equipment from the manufacturer you resell for?

As the screen shot shows 3 channels are required for this application.

The cheapest Siglent 4 channel I can find is the SDS2104x (http://siglentamerica.com/qyxwxx.aspx?id=4935&sid=216) at $1285.

The user's Rigol DS10??Z is available in DS1054Z (https://www.rigolna.com/products/digital-oscilloscopes/ds1000Z/ds1054z/) form for $399 and can be unlocked to approximately the same bandwidth as the Siglent.

I leave it up to others to decide if the Siglent is worth more than 3 times as much in order to meet their requirements and the depths of their pockets.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on January 22, 2017, 07:13:52 pm
Oh dear......your scope.  :box:

Why denigrate another users choice of equipment, especially when you're trying to persuade him to buy equipment from the manufacturer you resell for?
Said in jest, has nobody a sense of humor anymore ?  :-//

Furthermore Plasmateur wants some features added to equipment he already has, or did you miss that while you had your blood pressure up.....no apology necessary, we all make mistakes.  :)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: diodak on February 04, 2017, 03:41:20 pm
Has anyone tried the auto calibration?
Utilit->System->System Inf->Enter Password “123654”->SelfCal
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: MrW0lf on February 04, 2017, 09:06:58 pm
It looks like this machine could do that with the correct firmware, that is.

Just little workaround suggestion... if I understood application: Just buy second unit.
2xSDG2042X is about best value I ever spent on any new lab tech. 4 channel clock/phase lock zero jitter (detectable with given scope):
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/msg1082659/#msg1082659 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/msg1082659/#msg1082659)
Only burst mode possible, but burst can be pretty long so mostly ok. I used it for 4x sine waves but
could be anything.


Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Tjuurko on February 06, 2017, 09:20:36 am
Once I have set an amplitude I would like to be able to change the units without changing the actual amplitude, eg V RMS to V Pk to Pk or dBm to mV RMS.
Such a feature is easy to implement for sine wave only.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: nctnico on February 09, 2017, 10:34:19 pm
Has anyone some comments about the arbitrary waveform capabilities? I may get a project where the 8Mpts AWG functionality in the SDG2000X series could prove useful.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: AndyC247 on February 12, 2017, 10:26:45 pm
I have my SDG2042X configured to restore the last used settings on power up. I had set it to output a 7.1MHz sinewave at 0 dBm. When I next turned it on it restored the 7.1MHz but instead of displaying 0 dBm it displayed the equivalent in mV RMS. So it doesn't appear to store the units that the output level was entered in?

Regards,
Andrew
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on February 12, 2017, 11:31:24 pm
I have my SDG2042X configured to restore the last used settings on power up. I had set it to output a 7.1MHz sinewave at 0 dBm. When I next turned it on it restored the 7.1MHz but instead of displaying 0 dBm it displayed the equivalent in mV RMS. So it doesn't appear to store the units that the output level was entered in?

Regards,
Andrew
Please check your FW version, the latest being 22R5
http://www.siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=4960&tid=15 (http://www.siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=4960&tid=15)

In the change log there are 2 mentions of similar to what you describe:
e) Instrument Powers Up With Wrong Waveforms
h) Can not save the last state after the update

I'll check one I have in stock before I report your issue to Tech support unless someone else can confirm.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: AndyC247 on February 13, 2017, 11:35:54 am
I confirm I have the latest firmware 22R5

Andrew
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on February 14, 2017, 08:16:37 pm
I confirm I have the latest firmware 22R5

Andrew
Some small feedback on your issue:
The Amplitude unit change issue is a known bug and they are working on it.

But something I didn't know and maybe of some help:
The LAST function can take up to one minute to work – the system only scans that key function that often.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bson on February 20, 2017, 08:36:41 pm
Is there a way to make the SDG2000X output DC?  It doesn't seem to like being set to 0Hz, or a 0V amplitude on top of a DC offset.  Sometimes it's really handy to have a programmable voltage source that's more accurate and precise than a PSU.

I'm looking to measure a pile of LDR devices (32SR2) - these optoisolators consist of an LED on one side and a photoresistor on the other, embedded in a package. Drive the LED and the resistance drops.  I plan to put these in a voltage-controlled test fixture that accepts 0-3.3V and drives the LED side with a known current response.  I want to drive the fixture from the SDG2000X with a programmable voltage, using its LXI ethernet interface.  The input impedance is high, so it's not like the FG has to supply more than a few mA, maybe 10mA, and that should be no problem.

I could of course use a PSU and then measure its actual output voltage, but then I won't get device measurements at the same points.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Hergen Lehmann on February 20, 2017, 09:07:57 pm
Is there a way to make the SDG2000X output DC?  It doesn't seem to like being set to 0Hz, or a 0V amplitude on top of a DC offset.  Sometimes it's really handy to have a programmable voltage source that's more accurate and precise than a PSU.

There is a waveform called "DC" on the second page of the waveform menu.
Accuracy is not that outstanding, though. On my device, i get ~0.3% error on the selected offset voltage. A good programmable PSU might give better results.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bson on February 21, 2017, 12:05:26 am
Oh, didn't see that!  Excellent!

Doesn't seem so bad to me. 

Set it to 357.9mV and my 34465A reads 0.357590V, at 100PLC and nulled (short).  That's an error of about 0.04%.

It seems the error varies, and for some values I get around 0.01%.  This also doesn't seem random but quite reproducible, so I can pick test voltages I know have good accuracy... :p

(It's probably a DAC word size issue.)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on February 22, 2017, 01:22:35 pm
Oh, didn't see that!  Excellent!

Doesn't seem so bad to me. 

Set it to 357.9mV and my 34465A reads 0.357590V, at 100PLC and nulled (short).  That's an error of about 0.04%.

It seems the error varies, and for some values I get around 0.01%.  This also doesn't seem random but quite reproducible, so I can pick test voltages I know have good accuracy... :p

(It's probably a DAC word size issue.)
FYI
All Siglent AWG's have a DC (waveform) output mode and it can be used to power small projects if needed.
The source impedance is 50 \$\Omega\$ so the current supplied is limited.
All models except the SDG5000 series have BNC shells common'd with mains ground so the negative of the DC supply will be mains ground referenced.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Plasmateur on February 25, 2017, 03:39:38 am
Oh dear......your scope.  :box:

Why denigrate another users choice of equipment, especially when you're trying to persuade him to buy equipment from the manufacturer you resell for?
Said in jest, has nobody a sense of humor anymore ?  :-//

Furthermore Plasmateur wants some features added to equipment he already has, or did you miss that while you had your blood pressure up.....no apology necessary, we all make mistakes.  :)

I thought it was funny, no harm no foul.

And technically the SDG2042X has three outputs for my application if the aux out is simply used as a TTL gated signal while the front outputs are used as AFG's.

As for needed the AUX out to be variable. Not needed. 5V TTL gate would be great.

Would be great if all these could be triggered from the same software trigger.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: pherdie on March 18, 2017, 06:56:36 pm
Is there any method to change the output reading from peak to peak volts to something really useful like dbm or rms (available on the Rigols). Sure would make life more pleasant for me as opposed to doing constant conversions. It appears Siglent did it for the units they made for Teledyne so they must have the code already written.

Did I miss a menu item?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on March 18, 2017, 07:13:58 pm
Is there any method to change the output reading from peak to peak volts to something really useful like dbm or rms (available on the Rigols). Sure would make life more pleasant for me as opposed to doing constant conversions. It appears Siglent did it for the units they made for Teledyne so they must have the code already written.

Did I miss a menu item?
I hunted this out recently in another thread somewhere.
IIRC dBm units are only available in the 50 \$\Omega\$ impedance output setting. You can change the output impedance in the Utility menu.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: MrW0lf on March 18, 2017, 07:23:42 pm
You can change the output impedance in the Utility menu.

...or long-press CH* ON|OFF button.
Otherwise I have annoyance with same stuff others report when set to dBm and wander around in other screens it has forgot the unit and converted to volts equivalent
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: rf-loop on March 18, 2017, 07:42:30 pm
You can change the output impedance in the Utility menu.

I know you know but for avoid  confusion...

This setting is not for  set output impedance, it is only for tell to equipment what is connected load impedance, for display right level value (if true load match with user made setup)!
Output impedance is always 50ohm. In all cases.

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: MrW0lf on March 18, 2017, 08:10:56 pm
I know you know but for avoid  confusion...

Quite confusing indeed. I never actually analyzed this, if set to 50ohm always have 50ohm termination etc. Now suppose one does not have termination. It shows wrong voltage then. Can claim user error etc but it is not good GUI practice to display only imaginary value, which cannot be guaranteed and depends on what user does with output. Is it like this on all signal gens?
Maybe there should be grayed out "Unload ampl." or something as reminder what is actually going on?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on March 18, 2017, 08:24:50 pm
I know you know but for avoid  confusion...

Quite confusing indeed. I never actually analyzed this, if set to 50ohm always have 50ohm termination etc. Now suppose one does not have termination. It shows wrong voltage then. Can claim user error etc but it is not good GUI practice to display only imaginary value, which cannot be guaranteed and depends on what user does with output. Is it like this on all signal gens?
Maybe there should be grayed out "Unload ampl." or something as reminder what is actually going on?
Know your instrument  ;) and how to properly use it.  ;)

Set the output to try match the load. Simple IMO.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: nctnico on March 18, 2017, 08:25:50 pm
I know you know but for avoid  confusion...

Quite confusing indeed. I never actually analyzed this, if set to 50ohm always have 50ohm termination etc. Now suppose one does not have termination. It shows wrong voltage then. Can claim user error etc but it is not good GUI practice to display only imaginary value, which cannot be guaranteed and depends on what user does with output. Is it like this on all signal gens?
Yes it is on all general purpose signal generators. The 50 Ohm output resistor also limits the short circuit current.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: MrW0lf on March 18, 2017, 08:35:58 pm
Know your instrument  ;) and how to properly use it.  ;)

:box: I AM using it properly. Just bit outsider to "RF conventions", not outsider to good GUI practices to save user from trouble. System I develop involves money transactions... Numbers gotta stick to reality, saying RTFM little help if "owned" customer shows up ;)

Edit: Looked around sig. gen photos. Indeed seems convention not display 50ohm unloaded voltage. Can understand why convention because unloaded "real" RF amplifier may mean broken amplifier. Low freq sig gen more grey area, would still display "unloaded" voltage somewhere just in case if spare screen room. But with SDG2000X seems no room.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on March 18, 2017, 08:42:58 pm
I'll post some screenshots for better clarity at 1M \$\Omega\$ and 50 \$\Omega\$ output settings...

Screenshots as promised
SDS1102X DSO
SDG1062X (same UI as 2042X and very similar specs.)
Pulse for better indications of current loadings when properly terminated.
Ch 2: Tek P6021 AC current probe. (values seen may not be correct (attenuation) but waveform is indicative of what's happening)

Shot 1 with only 50 \$\Omega\$ scope internal termination.
Waveform is identical with either 50 or 1M \$\Omega\$ sig gen source impedance. Only the sig gen displays a difference depending on the source impedance selected.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=300538)

Next is entirely different, the source is always 50 \$\Omega\$ from the sig gen (explained earlier) but the termination impedance matters.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=300540)

Tiny current spikes can be seen on rising and falling edges....clear on the display but not so in the screenshots.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: pherdie on March 18, 2017, 11:46:10 pm
With egg on my face I answer my own question.

Yes, output can be designated in RMS or dbm as opposed to peak to peak, but only when the output load is set for 50 Ohms.

I found this quite by accident drilling through menus. It was not found in the pdf version of the operations manual using a pdf generated search.

Quote
Is there any method to change the output reading from peak to peak volts to something really useful like dbm or rms (available on the Rigols). Sure would make life more pleasant for me as opposed to doing constant conversions. It appears Siglent did it for the units they made for Teledyne so they must have the code already written.

Did I miss a menu item?/quote]
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on March 19, 2017, 12:29:09 am
With egg on my face I answer my own question.

Yes, output can be designated in RMS or dbm as opposed to peak to peak, but only when the output load is set for 50 Ohms.

I found this quite by accident drilling through menus. It was not found in the pdf version of the operations manual using a pdf generated search.

Quote
Is there any method to change the output reading from peak to peak volts to something really useful like dbm or rms (available on the Rigols). Sure would make life more pleasant for me as opposed to doing constant conversions. It appears Siglent did it for the units they made for Teledyne so they must have the code already written.

Did I miss a menu item?

As you're not the first to have asked about this I'll shoot an email to Siglent asking for it to be made clearer in the manual.
P30 of the latest manual shows the UI and the other units available although the image shows 1M \$\Omega\$ output impedance while as you say they are only available in 50 \$\Omega\$ output mode.  :-//
The pic at least needs changing for one showing 50 \$\Omega\$ not 1M as this is misleading for those trying to access the other units. Some wording to make all this clear need be added too.
http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Documents/UserManual/SDG2000X_UserManual_UM0202X-E01C.pdf (http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Documents/UserManual/SDG2000X_UserManual_UM0202X-E01C.pdf)

As is often the case as manuals get updated there is new info included and the CD manual supplied can sometimes be out of date. Keep an eye out for new manuals. I do try to announce them but often I don't get notified of new versions. Feel free to announce any new versions seen.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: MrW0lf on March 19, 2017, 09:27:08 am
Confusion about signal gen source impedance pops up quite often, if look Google.
Seem not RF-background people assume sources as LowZ.
For example I often handle 100Ah batteries in complex conditions and you better be treating them as LowZ... Gets into your system so to speak.

After little thinking I have some improvement suggestions:

1) First look at my other gear, discover all needed info on front panel:

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=300654)

2) Improve SDG2000X

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=300656)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: MrW0lf on March 19, 2017, 05:21:30 pm
Did some checks for "changing units" bug:

1) Wrong units and value after reboot:

- set Ch1.Load=50ohm
- set Ch1.Amplitude=0dBm
- power OFF
- power ON
- displays Ch1.Amplitude=447.2Vpp
- check with 50ohm load confirms that 0dBm has converted to -3dBm

2) Ch1/Ch2 units mixup:

- set Ch1.Load=50ohm
- set Ch1.Amplitude=0dBm
- [Ch1/Ch2]
- set Ch2.Amplitude=1Vpp
- [Ch1/Ch2]
- displays Ch1.Amplitude=632.6mVpp

Consequently if Ch2.Load=HighZ then after [Ch1/Ch2] will always lose "50ohm" units on Ch1.
Only way keep units is keep set Ch2.Load=50ohm and same units as on Ch1.

FW=22R5
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on March 28, 2017, 11:22:03 pm
New Firmware for SDG2000X series.
http://siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=5196&tid=15 (http://siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=5196&tid=15)
12.4 Mb

From the changelog:
1. Allow 0 Hz for CH Frequency In MOD Modes PM, AM, DSB-AM, ASK, PSK
2. Allow MOD frequency > CH Frequency In MOD Modes PM, DSB AM, ASK
3. Allow DSB-AM, AM MOD Modes In TrueArb Mode
4. Up Followed by Down Sweep Mode is Supported in Linear Sweep (No Change for Log Sweep)
5. Added ARB waveform name to display, allowing user to know what Arb waveform is loaded
6. Fixed some bugs :
a) Arb Waveforms In DDS Mode Have One (Small) Glitch Per Cycle
b) Built in Ramp waveform has a flat spot issue at the rising slope zero crossing right at the SYNC pulse
c) Power Up Last Does Not Remember SRate/Frequency Setting
d) MOD Type = DSB AM Has Amplitude Issues
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: CustomEngineerer on March 29, 2017, 02:14:03 am
I went ahead and installed the new firmware and can confirm that the bandwidth hack remains in place through the update.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: CustomEngineerer on March 29, 2017, 02:28:31 am
Don't really have time to test out all the changes, but did get to briefly play around with the new up down linear sweep mode. Behaves like you would expect. When set to Up_Down direction, there is a new setting called Dir Sym (direction symmetry) that allows you to set what percentage of the sweep time is spent going up vs going down. Thats all I had time for, hopefully will get to test more out in the next couple of days.

 
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: nugglix on March 29, 2017, 06:29:18 am
New Firmware for SDG2000X series.
http://siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=5196&tid=15 (http://siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=5196&tid=15)
12.4 Mb

Wahh... these Siglent links suck.
Downloads stops after a few seconds.
Must be very complicated to make such a thing work.  :--
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on March 29, 2017, 06:33:50 am
New Firmware for SDG2000X series.
http://siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=5196&tid=15 (http://siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=5196&tid=15)
12.4 Mb

Wahh... these Siglent links suck.
Downloads stops after a few seconds.
Must be very complicated to make such a thing work.  :--
Maybe everybody is downloading it.  :-//
Edit
I grabbed it today without incident....must be your pipes to the US ?
Do you have regular problems downloading Siglent material ?

Here's the link from the EU site:
http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDG2000X_V200R001B01D01P23R3EE.rar (http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDG2000X_V200R001B01D01P23R3EE.rar)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: rf-loop on March 29, 2017, 07:06:31 am
New Firmware for SDG2000X series.
http://siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=5196&tid=15 (http://siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=5196&tid=15)
12.4 Mb

Wahh... these Siglent links suck.
Downloads stops after a few seconds.
Must be very complicated to make such a thing work.  :--

Here  network works reliable and without any single problem. Tested 10 times.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: nugglix on March 29, 2017, 07:18:34 am
Seems to be a routing issue w/ the provider of this IP.
Using a VPN and different surfacing point it works.

*sigh*
Welcome to the 21st century...

Thanks for the checks and feedback!

Cheers
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: rf-loop on March 29, 2017, 07:38:39 am
Seems to be a routing issue w/ the provider of this IP.
Using a VPN and different surfacing point it works.

*sigh*
Welcome to the 21st century...

Thanks for the checks and feedback!

Cheers

America need first reach 20th century...  (networks - mobile and wired)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Dwaine on March 30, 2017, 05:36:19 am
I just downloaded the firmware fine.   Nice to see another firmware upgrade.   I'm still looking for some graphing with the frequency counter.

One screen for the stats and another screen for the graph.

I really like this device and it's been a great addition to my lab.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Plasmateur on April 01, 2017, 08:31:11 am
Tautech,

Any news on getting getting both channels to trigger from a remote command on the next firmware update?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on April 01, 2017, 09:21:38 am
Tautech,

Any news on getting getting both channels to trigger from a remote command on the next firmware update?
I can ask but the factory is on a Chinese holiday for the next few days.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: kazam on April 06, 2017, 11:50:07 am
Hi,

Just updated to the latest release. The very annoying bug with skipping position when changing delay values with the knob is still there!

Steps to reproduce:
1. Set output 1 to pulse
2. Set delay to 100.000us
3. Move digit indicator to second decimal place 100.0X0us
4. Rotate wheel

You will get 100.010 => 10X.010
Cursor will move here -----/

The next time you rotate you will increase delay by a full us. Stupendously annoying when you have your eyes on the scope and wonder where your waveform went. :)

/K
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Siglent America on April 07, 2017, 12:54:13 pm
kazam,
Thank you. Engineering has been notified and is now on their bug list.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: zorromen on April 09, 2017, 09:47:14 am
Hello, there is a question. I'm writing on PC a program for controlling the generator, I'm tired of twisting my hands. So I ran into such a problem. Requires PWM 100KHz 0-3V with modulation frequency of 10 Hz to modulate ARB signals, both mine and built-in from the list. It does not work to write a query so that you can select the type of ARB signal by number or name.

myDmm.WriteString("C1:BSWV WVTP,PULSE,AMP,3.0V,OFST,1.5V,FRQ,100000HZ,DUTY,50.0");
myDmm.WriteString("C1:MDWV STATE,ON,PWM,FRQ,10,MDSP,ARB");

The command myDmm.WriteString("C1:ARWV?"); always returns "C1:ARWV INDEX,0,NAME,StairUp\n"

If we write myDmm.WriteString("C1:ARWV INDEX,6"); then the modulation goes over to AM.

How to make PWM modulate the desired ARB signal?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Siglent America on April 10, 2017, 06:03:18 pm
Hello zorromen,

We tried to post the answer here but we had three screen shots and it took up too much room.

We did find the problem. Please contact us at
info@siglent.com
and we will help you out on this.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: fonograph on April 14, 2017, 11:46:43 am
Siglent says that modulation freqency is 1mhz max,I am confused

is it 1mhz max for the carrier or 1mhz max for the modulating freqency? I want to do some 6 mhz PWM modulation stuff and I was thinking since this is 120mhz signal generator it should handle it but when I read the specs I am not sure anymore if it can do what I need
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: zorromen on April 14, 2017, 06:45:59 pm
Modulation signal max 1 MHz (Sine....Arb, External)
PWM 25MHz
You will approach it, 120 Mhz is for Sine, the basis of PWM is PULSE, so it is limited to 25 Mhz.

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on April 14, 2017, 07:45:42 pm
Hello zorromen,

We tried to post the answer here but we had three screen shots and it took up too much room.

We did find the problem. Please contact us at
info@siglent.com
and we will help you out on this.
Hence the need for a faster FW roll out of alternative and smaller file types for screenshots. (png etc)
These have been promised for a while and many of us have had quite enough of compressing imagery for online screenshots. Get a move on Siglent.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: fonograph on April 14, 2017, 10:41:18 pm
So I can have 25mhz PWM carrier and I can modulate it at 1mhz? Did I understand it correctly?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: zorromen on April 15, 2017, 10:07:35 am
So it is, only it is necessary to take into account that the frequency of the PWM 150MHz itself is 6.6 nS step, it leads to a strong drop in the resolution at a high frequency> 10Mhz.
For example 150Mhz / 256bit = 580KHz
20Mhz will give us in reality only 3 states since we need to consider 8.4ns fronts.
At 24 and 25 MHz PWM I did not modulate anything at all.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: colorado.rob on May 05, 2017, 02:39:32 am
Is it possible to modulate an FSK signal with a file (square wave waveform)?  I'd like to be able to upload a bitstream and FSK modulate that signal.

I'm able to do FSK modulation of simple square wave, but modulation of arbitrary data is what I really need.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: colorado.rob on May 05, 2017, 03:23:13 am
Quote
We tried to post the answer here but we had three screen shots and it took up too much room.

We did find the problem. Please contact us at
info@siglent.com
and we will help you out on this

Please reply here.  I have the same question.  I'm sure others will too.

Edit: add context
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: CustomEngineerer on May 05, 2017, 05:29:05 am
Is it possible to modulate an FSK signal with a file (square wave waveform)?  I'd like to be able to upload a bitstream and FSK modulate that signal.

I'm able to do FSK modulation of simple square wave, but modulation of arbitrary data is what I really need.

Please reply here.  I have the same question.  I'm sure others will too.

The same question as yourself or are you referring to a different question on your second post? For the obvious question, it does appear that you can FSK modulate an arbitrary waveform, so you should just be able to upload your arbitrary waveform, set it as the active waveform, the turn on and setup modulation.

Edit: In addition to that it also appears that you can feed in an external signal through the signal/trigger in connector on the back to be used for the "Key Freq".
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: colorado.rob on May 05, 2017, 01:01:39 pm
Is it possible to modulate an FSK signal with a file (square wave waveform)?  I'd like to be able to upload a bitstream and FSK modulate that signal.

I'm able to do FSK modulation of simple square wave, but modulation of arbitrary data is what I really need.

For the obvious question, it does appear that you can FSK modulate an arbitrary waveform, so you should just be able to upload your arbitrary waveform, set it as the active waveform, the turn on and setup modulation.

I want to FSK modulate a sine wave with an arbitrary bit sequence.  Most other forms allow one to specify the modulation source (example: "C2:MDWV PWM,MDSP, ARB") but there is no "MDSP" option for FSK, either via the front panel or via SCPI command.  This seems to be an oversight limiting the usefulness of the FSK modulator.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Plasmateur on May 06, 2017, 02:22:27 am
Tautech,

Any news on getting getting both channels to trigger from a remote command on the next firmware update?
I can ask but the factory is on a Chinese holiday for the next few days.

Sorry to keep buggin ya on this. Any update at all?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on May 06, 2017, 02:37:37 am
Tautech,

Any news on getting getting both channels to trigger from a remote command on the next firmware update?
I can ask but the factory is on a Chinese holiday for the next few days.

Sorry to keep buggin ya on this. Any update at all?
I'll chase it up.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Electro Fan on May 06, 2017, 05:12:54 am
I'm looking to purchase a SDG2042X as a gift for an engineering student. This would be my first experience with a Siglent product. Based on the specs the 2042X looks like a better performer with more features and overall it looks like a good value (not that much more expensive) vs. the SDG1025 and SDG1032X.  Just wanted to make sure after reading this thread (with questions/issues regarding 50 Ohm vs Hi Z output controls, etc., etc.) that the SDG2042X firmware is mature enough.

While the performance and features seem superior on the SDG2042X to the other two models maybe the 1025 or 1032 has firmware that would be more refined/reliable than the SDG2042X?  I'm sure an EE student can work through some firmware bugs but I wouldn't want to provide a unit that is overly quirky.  Any reason to consider the 1025 or 1032, or just go for the 2042?  Thx
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: ebclr on May 06, 2017, 05:56:22 am
2042 is a great product, The firmware is quite stable, I didn't have any problem on firmware that stops using the product, The majority of issues are related to a not so user-friendly HMI, and a ridiculous set of alarms messages unessary, Othe than that the instrument is the best in this price range, 16 bit and 1.2 GS makes a Hugh difference to all others on this class.
But still a Chinese product, but is top class Chinese not poor one, but it's easy to see some details missing
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on May 06, 2017, 06:17:03 am
I'm looking to purchase a SDG2042X as a gift for an engineering student. This would be my first experience with a Siglent product. Based on the specs the 2042X looks like a better performer with more features and overall it looks like a good value (not that much more expensive) vs. the SDG1025 and SDG1032X.  Just wanted to make sure after reading this thread (with questions/issues regarding 50 Ohm vs Hi Z output controls, etc., etc.) that the SDG2042X firmware is mature enough.

While the performance and features seem superior on the SDG2042X to the other two models maybe the 1025 or 1032 has firmware that would be more refined/reliable than the SDG2042X?  I'm sure an EE student can work through some firmware bugs but I wouldn't want to provide a unit that is overly quirky.  Any reason to consider the 1025 or 1032, or just go for the 2042?  Thx
Hi EF
Go through the datasheets, side by side.
Quick and simple overview.
2002X range is the best overall unit, 1002X models can do square to same frequency as sine and older 1k models have the 2nd channel amplitude limitation like many other brands.


All models have 50 \$\Omega\$ permanent outputs and the Hi-Z selection just toggles the display amplitude value to match the load. (50 \$\Omega\$ value is 1/2 HiZ)
Mentioned in the SDG1kX datasheet in a footnote for Output Characteristics on P8.

IMO for a $100 less than 2042X a 1032X need be carefully considered. It hasn't got all the bells and whistles of 2042X but square wave spec makes up for that.

Both X models have a fan. Many older 1K models do not.
X models have better signal fidelity.
1kX models are the latest series in the Siglent AWG family.

Yeah I know......decisions.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: ebclr on May 06, 2017, 06:44:20 am
2042 can easily go to 120 Mhz, with only a few types on computer terminal, doing everything a SDG2122X in less than a minute
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on May 06, 2017, 06:52:37 am
2042 can easily go to 120 Mhz, with only a few types on computer terminal, doing everything a SDG2122X in less than a minute
:)
What we do not know.......as yet, can the 1032X can be improved in the same way to SDG1062X ?  :-/O
Then we could have 60 MHz sine and square frequencies that will beat the 2122X square wave by 15 MHz.  :scared:
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: janekivi on May 06, 2017, 08:00:23 am
We had a talk about this some time ago
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1032x-mini-teardown/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1032x-mini-teardown/)
but did someone try something
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: ebclr on May 06, 2017, 09:55:55 am
1032X will go nowhere with only  150 MSa/s sampling
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: janekivi on May 07, 2017, 03:37:08 pm
...........................
Then we could have 60 MHz sine and square frequencies that will beat the 2122X square wave by 15 MHz.  :scared:
by 35 MHz ?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: pigrew on May 07, 2017, 04:38:25 pm
I keep wanting the 2122X to be able to output sine waves at above 120MHz,  with AM modulation. It looks like the AD9122 should be able to do it. The datasheet lists outputs at up to 375MHz. I'd bet that the 3dB point of the output filters/amp is at least 175MHz, if not higher.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: sdouble on May 07, 2017, 04:40:10 pm
I own a SDG2042X and I mus say that i'm a bit disappointed.
I only use it with square waveforms and low to medium frequency. from 100Hz to 50kHz. My issues : the rise time and the noise level.
I use the square wave form to charge a pF capacitor and inject an integrator circuit (jFET input).
The cap is charge during every leading/trailing edge but the noisy plateaus are also affecting my integrator output.
The Rigol DG4062 behaves much better with that respect.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Electro Fan on May 07, 2017, 05:04:31 pm
I own a SDG2042X and I mus say that i'm a bit disappointed.
I only use it with square waveforms and low to medium frequency. from 100Hz to 50kHz. My issues : the rise time and the noise level.
I use the square wave form to charge a pF capacitor and inject an integrator circuit (jFET input).
The cap is charge during every leading/trailing edge but the noisy plateaus are also affecting my integrator output.
The Rigol DG4062 behaves much better with that respect.

I thought relatively low noise was supposed to be a strong suit for the Siglent SDG 2X series; are you sure it's the SDG that is causing the noise?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: janekivi on May 07, 2017, 07:09:06 pm
I keep wanting the 2122X to be able to output sine waves at above 120MHz,  with AM modulation. It looks like the AD9122 should be able to do it. The datasheet lists outputs at up to 375MHz. I'd bet that the 3dB point of the output filters/amp is at least 175MHz, if not higher.
Once I did expand some its limits in limit.xml file
but realized that the limits are set fair enough.
Beyond the limits the waveform is crap...
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/msg989922/#msg989922 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/msg989922/#msg989922)
But right now I don't remember,  I'm not sure about sine wave quality... and I only have 100 Mhz scope here
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: sdouble on May 07, 2017, 10:12:03 pm
I own a SDG2042X and I mus say that i'm a bit disappointed.
I only use it with square waveforms and low to medium frequency. from 100Hz to 50kHz. My issues : the rise time and the noise level.
I use the square wave form to charge a pF capacitor and inject an integrator circuit (jFET input).
The cap is charge during every leading/trailing edge but the noisy plateaus are also affecting my integrator output.
The Rigol DG4062 behaves much better with that respect.

I thought relatively low noise was supposed to be a strong suit for the Siglent SDG 2X series; are you sure it's the SDG that is causing the noise?
absolutely.
same set up, i swap the sdg2042x for a dg4062 and  the noise is reduced by a factor of 3 approx.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Electro Fan on May 07, 2017, 10:49:57 pm
I own a SDG2042X and I mus say that i'm a bit disappointed.
I only use it with square waveforms and low to medium frequency. from 100Hz to 50kHz. My issues : the rise time and the noise level.
I use the square wave form to charge a pF capacitor and inject an integrator circuit (jFET input).
The cap is charge during every leading/trailing edge but the noisy plateaus are also affecting my integrator output.
The Rigol DG4062 behaves much better with that respect.

I thought relatively low noise was supposed to be a strong suit for the Siglent SDG 2X series; are you sure it's the SDG that is causing the noise?
absolutely.
same set up, i swap the sdg2042x for a dg4062 and  the noise is reduced by a factor of 3 approx.

Roger that. 

You mentioned noise and rise time; in addition to the noise, the rise time doesn't meet the specs?

Any chance you can post some images showing the SigGen/DUT setup and the screen capture results (rise time and noise) from both the Siglent and the Rigol generated signals?  Maybe someone here with a Siglent can see if they get similar results.  Thx

Add-on thought/question:

In this other post (in the link below) there is a question regarding a potential difference in results depending on whether the DDS mode or the TrueArb mode is being used to generate a signal.  Just curious to see which mode you are using and if one or the other improves the rise time and/or the noise in your project?

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/dds-vs-truearb-something-is-wrong-or-dds-is-no-go-for-timing-sensitive-signal/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/dds-vs-truearb-something-is-wrong-or-dds-is-no-go-for-timing-sensitive-signal/)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: pigrew on May 07, 2017, 11:06:01 pm
Once I did expand some its limits in limit.xml file
but realized that the limits are set fair enough.
Beyond the limits the waveform is crap...
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/msg989922/#msg989922 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/msg989922/#msg989922)
But right now I don't remember,  I'm not sure about sine wave quality... and I only have 100 Mhz scope here

What I was thinking about would require significant firmware changes, to enable the use of the NCO (numerically controlled oscillator) on the DAC chip. Currently, the FPGA is generating the data at up to 300 MSa/s to generate waveforms. However, the DAC can be programmed to generate a sine wave on its own, at higher frequencies, without the FPGA having to input samples that quickly, and modulate the input data at that carrier frequency. One disadvantage is that both channels have to be set to the same carrier frequency (or at least ones that are close together).

I'd like to be able to use the SDG2042X as a RF source at 128 MHz.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Electro Fan on May 08, 2017, 03:49:57 am
Hi rf-loop,

Any chance you might have comparable numbers for the SDG2042X?  Thx, EF
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: MrW0lf on May 08, 2017, 02:01:32 pm
Bricking alert!

My unit was running perfectly fine until did the following:

1) Firmware upgrade 22R5 => 23R3 (http://www.siglent.com/ENs/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=1880&tid=15), after successful upgrade just continued to use and did following:
2) Used EasyWave to send 8pts wfm, played around with DDS/TrueArb setting etc. Turned unit off while custom wfm was loaded.

Next day unit now shows blank screen after logo. Controls non-responsive. Parameter button is lit. Not recognized as USB device. But LAN shows functional login screen. Do not know user/pass.

:-// Since did 2 things first time (not used EW before) cannot be sure which activity bricked it. My first idea would be delete custom wfm. Maybe loading it at boot bricks it. But cannot get in....

Ordered online from siglent.eu quite a hassle sending it back etc... Since LAN is working maybe there is some trick to resurrect it? Can firmware be upgraded / downgraded over LAN? Reset procedure? Telnet user / pass?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: nugglix on May 08, 2017, 03:10:31 pm
Ouch!
That sounds serious.

Thanks for notifying us.

Maybe you can leave a reference to your post in
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/)

Wish you all the luck you can get!
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: ebclr on May 09, 2017, 06:53:20 am
They changed to need login on new firmware, I logged without user and password, on earlier release but now ask for login and password


===============================================
|SIGLENT SDG project
===============================================
(none) login:

Bastards...
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: flash2b on May 09, 2017, 10:40:51 am
MrW0lf was your SDG hacked or still factory ?

Did any other have a problem with 23R3 ?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Electro Fan on May 09, 2017, 11:00:35 am
They changed to need login on new firmware, I logged without user and password, on earlier release but now ask for login and password


===============================================
|SIGLENT SDG project
===============================================
(none) login:

Bastards...

Are you sure you need a login?

http://www.siglentamerica.com/prodcut-gjjrj.aspx?id=1364&tid=16&T=2 (http://www.siglentamerica.com/prodcut-gjjrj.aspx?id=1364&tid=16&T=2)

http://www.siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=5196&tid=16 (http://www.siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=5196&tid=16)

http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDG2000X_V200R001B01D01P23R3EE.rar (http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDG2000X_V200R001B01D01P23R3EE.rar)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: McBryce on May 09, 2017, 11:19:09 am
Bricking alert!

My unit was running perfectly fine until did the following:

1) Firmware upgrade 22R5 => 23R3 (http://www.siglent.com/ENs/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=1880&tid=15), after successful upgrade just continued to use and did following:
2) Used EasyWave to send 8pts wfm, played around with DDS/TrueArb setting etc. Turned unit off while custom wfm was loaded.

Next day unit now shows blank screen after logo. Controls non-responsive. Parameter button is lit. Not recognized as USB device. But LAN shows functional login screen. Do not know user/pass.

:-// Since did 2 things first time (not used EW before) cannot be sure which activity bricked it. My first idea would be delete custom wfm. Maybe loading it at boot bricks it. But cannot get in....

Ordered online from siglent.eu quite a hassle sending it back etc... Since LAN is working maybe there is some trick to resurrect it? Can firmware be upgraded / downgraded over LAN? Reset procedure? Telnet user / pass?

Have you tried just booting with a USB stick with Firmware on it plugged in?

McBryce.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: ebclr on May 09, 2017, 11:26:02 am
Login to access the instrument with telnet, not to access the firmware
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: McBryce on May 09, 2017, 02:11:08 pm
Login to access the instrument with telnet, not to access the firmware

That was only possible on the old Firmware and he has already upgraded.

McBryce.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: MrW0lf on May 09, 2017, 03:24:49 pm
Have you tried just booting with a USB stick with Firmware on it plugged in?

No luck :( FW upgrade works thru Utility menu where need to specify file name.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: ebclr on May 09, 2017, 03:37:31 pm
Chose USB with rotary button, then Files on USB will show
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: MrW0lf on May 09, 2017, 09:11:11 pm
Chose USB with rotary button, then Files on USB will show

Screen / buttons / USB connection are completely dead... Tomorrow will try send commands over LAN/LXI... maybe it works since Telnet is online.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: invzim on May 09, 2017, 09:34:57 pm
Quite happy with the unit, but after a few weeks it seems like the led's have given up.  I thought at first it was some wonky firmware issue, until I found the LEDTest.

I haven't actually bothered to open the unit up yet to check if there is a loose connector, but it has been stationary on my desk all the time so would be a little odd.

Anyone else experienced this?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: pascal_sweden on May 10, 2017, 12:09:23 am
Can someone please confirm or deny this noise issue?
I have been following this thread for a very long time, and this is the first time I hear about it.

My perception up to now:
Low noise level and high resolution (16 bit).
Much better performance than any of the Rigol models that use DDS.

It doesn't make sense that Siglent would do all this effort in using a 16 bit D/A converter,
and at the same time screw up the noise levels.

Therefore I am doubtful about the reported noise issues.

I own a SDG2042X and I mus say that i'm a bit disappointed.
I only use it with square waveforms and low to medium frequency. from 100Hz to 50kHz. My issues : the rise time and the noise level.
I use the square wave form to charge a pF capacitor and inject an integrator circuit (jFET input).
The cap is charge during every leading/trailing edge but the noisy plateaus are also affecting my integrator output.
The Rigol DG4062 behaves much better with that respect.

I thought relatively low noise was supposed to be a strong suit for the Siglent SDG 2X series; are you sure it's the SDG that is causing the noise?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on May 10, 2017, 01:17:50 am
Quite happy with the unit, but after a few weeks it seems like the led's have given up.  I thought at first it was some wonky firmware issue, until I found the LEDTest.

I haven't actually bothered to open the unit up yet to check if there is a loose connector, but it has been stationary on my desk all the time so would be a little odd.

Anyone else experienced this?
Never heard of failed LED's before.  :-//
If you have had it only a short time from new it will be a warranty repair, please contact your local supplier to start the warranty process.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: fonograph on May 10, 2017, 07:27:13 pm
What would be good step up from Siglent SDG2000X series? I spend whole day today looking at Keysight and Rohde & Schwarz and I didnt found anything superior to Siglent.You might think thats crazy but I swear I didnt find anything that I would get over Siglent even if I had infinite money.

The problems is all the high end generators are aimed at microwave freqencies,I dont need 40 gigaHertz,also they have low output power around 2v peak to peak and their minimum freqency is many times 9khz or even 100khz .Only thing I found that is like the Siglent  is 33600A Series,but it have only 14bit DAC,the standart memory is 4mg,less than siglent and output power falls rapidly at higher freqencies compared to siglent and it cost 5k+ vs 500 for Siglent ( becose it can be hacked easily )

I looked at Rohde Schwarz stuff,but it was either old stuff with tiny kilosample memory or for me useless microwave stuff with low power output.


I want = high output power,abilily to play low freqencies down to 20hz,low harmonic/inharmonic/intermodulation distortion,low noise,big memory,100mhz bandwidth,modern unit

I dont want = low output power,inability to play lower than 9khz,12bit DAC,60ghz bandwidth,year of release 2005
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: pigrew on May 10, 2017, 07:48:32 pm


What would be good step up from Siglent SDG2000X series? I spend whole day today looking at Keysight and Rohde & Schwarz and I didnt found anything superior to Siglent.You might think thats crazy but I swear I didnt find anything that I would get over Siglent even if I had infinite money.


I want = high output power,abilily to play low freqencies down to 20hz,low harmonic/inharmonic/intermodulation distortion,low noise,big memory,100mhz bandwidth,modern unit

I dont want = low output power,inability to play lower than 9khz,12bit DAC,60ghz bandwidth,year of release 2005

What do you want that the SDG2042X does not provide?

Personally, I like the Tektronix AFG3000 series, though that's because I'm working at around 150MHz.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on May 10, 2017, 08:36:50 pm
What would be good step up from Siglent SDG2000X series? I spend whole day today looking at Keysight and Rohde & Schwarz and I didnt found anything superior to Siglent.You might think thats crazy but I swear I didnt find anything that I would get over Siglent even if I had infinite money.

The problems is all the high end generators are aimed at microwave freqencies,I dont need 40 gigaHertz,also they have low output power around 2v peak to peak and their minimum freqency is many times 9khz or even 100khz .Only thing I found that is like the Siglent  is 33600A Series,but it have only 14bit DAC,the standart memory is 4mg,less than siglent and output power falls rapidly at higher freqencies compared to siglent and it cost 5k+ vs 500 for Siglent ( becose it can be hacked easily )

I looked at Rohde Schwarz stuff,but it was either old stuff with tiny kilosample memory or for me useless microwave stuff with low power output.


I want = high output power,abilily to play low freqencies down to 20hz,low harmonic/inharmonic/intermodulation distortion,low noise,big memory,100mhz bandwidth,modern unit

I dont want = low output power,inability to play lower than 9khz,12bit DAC,60ghz bandwidth,year of release 2005

Will the Siglent AWG SPA1010 power amp have enough grunt ?
Product page
http://siglentamerica.com/prodcut-fjxx.aspx?fjid=1289&id=1364&tid=16&T=2 (http://siglentamerica.com/prodcut-fjxx.aspx?fjid=1289&id=1364&tid=16&T=2)

(http://www.siglent.com/Uploadfile/image/20150417/%E5%8A%9F%E7%8E%87%E6%94%BE%E5%A4%A7%E5%99%A82.jpg)

Manual
http://www.siglent.com/2014EnglishWebsite/Documents/UserManual/SPA1000_UserManual_UM60010-E01A.pdf (http://www.siglent.com/2014EnglishWebsite/Documents/UserManual/SPA1000_UserManual_UM60010-E01A.pdf)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: StillTrying on May 10, 2017, 09:48:41 pm
Will the Siglent AWG SPA1010 power amp have enough grunt ?
5,184 x 3,456 pixels 3,730,076 bytes. I wish my PC and internet had more grunt.  :)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on May 10, 2017, 09:55:23 pm
Will the Siglent AWG SPA1010 power amp have enough grunt ?
5,184 x 3,456 pixels 3,730,076 bytes. I wish my PC and internet had more grunt.  :)
Posting linked imagery from Siglent sites doesn't seem to stress the speed of which a page downloads here.  :-//
Sure, if the image file was used........... :scared:

Slow for you guys ?

(I'm on a slow ass connection and very conscious of adding large imagery to posts  :-- )
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: StillTrying on May 10, 2017, 10:00:05 pm
"Posting linked imagery from Siglent sites doesn't seem to stress the speed of which a page downloads here."

The image is probably in your browser's cache, 3.6MB should not be a problem for me, but for some reason it was a very slow load - well over a minute.

"I'm on a slow ass connection and very conscious of adding large imagery to posts."
Same here, an occasional one doesn't matter too much.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on May 10, 2017, 10:04:16 pm
"Posting linked imagery from Siglent sites doesn't seem to stress the speed of which a page downloads here."

The image is probably in your browser's cache, 3.6MB should not be a problem for me, but for some reason it was a very slow load - well over a minute.
Hmmm, OK ta.
Had a nagging thought about that, makes perfect sense.

Some pic editing needed before posting next time.  :)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: nctnico on May 10, 2017, 11:34:20 pm
The server the image is on is very slow. I'm on 50Mbit/s internet and the image comes in at snail speed.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on May 10, 2017, 11:46:05 pm
The server the image is on is very slow. I'm on 50Mbit/s internet and the image comes in at snail speed.
Haha, try 1.7Mb/s that mine is.

It's from the US, try the one from the Hamburg site:
http://www.siglenteu.com/prodcut-fjxx.aspx?fjid=1044&id=1115&tid=16&T=2 (http://www.siglenteu.com/prodcut-fjxx.aspx?fjid=1044&id=1115&tid=16&T=2)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bb1 on May 11, 2017, 12:22:18 am
The SDG2000X waveforms use 16 bit signed values for the samples. The maximum value is 32767, and the minimum value is -32768.
I created short waveform of 15 samples with values increasing from -7 to 7 in steps of one.
I set SDG2000X output amplitude to 20 V. In this case the output waveform should have steps with one step value about 0.3 mV. To see such small steps clearly, I used 10000 averages by TDS684 scope. The results are shown in attached tek_adc-7to7_DDsArb_15ms_ampl20Vpk-pk.png and tek_adc-7to7_trueArb_15ms_ampl20Vpk-pk.png.
   
One can see that in both DDS and TrueArb modes the output is wrong at the center of the waveform, where is should cross zero (the actual output is larger than zero due to output offset).
My firmware version is 2.01.01.22R5.
Is this bug fixed in the latest SDG2000X firmware ?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on May 11, 2017, 01:00:36 am
The SDG2000X waveforms use 16 bit signed values for the samples. The maximum value is 32767, and the minimum value is -32768.
I created short waveform of 15 samples with values increasing from -7 to 7 in steps of one.
I set SDG2000X output amplitude to 20 V. In this case the output waveform should have steps with one step value about 0.3 mV. To see such small steps clearly, I used 10000 averages by TDS684 scope. The results are shown in attached tek_adc-7to7_DDsArb_15ms_ampl20Vpk-pk.png and tek_adc-7to7_trueArb_15ms_ampl20Vpk-pk.png.
   
One can see that in both DDS and TrueArb modes the output is wrong at the center of the waveform, where is should cross zero (the actual output is larger than zero due to output offset).
My firmware version is 2.01.01.22R5.
Is this bug fixed in the latest SDG2000X firmware ?
Welcome to the forum.

I think they have been......mentioned in 6a in the changelog.
Listed here and FW download link included:
http://siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=5196&tid=15 (http://siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=5196&tid=15)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Electro Fan on May 11, 2017, 02:21:04 am
The SDG2000X waveforms use 16 bit signed values for the samples. The maximum value is 32767, and the minimum value is -32768.
I created short waveform of 15 samples with values increasing from -7 to 7 in steps of one.
I set SDG2000X output amplitude to 20 V. In this case the output waveform should have steps with one step value about 0.3 mV. To see such small steps clearly, I used 10000 averages by TDS684 scope. The results are shown in attached tek_adc-7to7_DDsArb_15ms_ampl20Vpk-pk.png and tek_adc-7to7_trueArb_15ms_ampl20Vpk-pk.png.
   
One can see that in both DDS and TrueArb modes the output is wrong at the center of the waveform, where is should cross zero (the actual output is larger than zero due to output offset).
My firmware version is 2.01.01.22R5.
Is this bug fixed in the latest SDG2000X firmware ?
Welcome to the forum.

I think they have been......mentioned in 6a in the changelog.
Listed here and FW download link included:
http://siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=5196&tid=15 (http://siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=5196&tid=15)

If the unit can be successfully updated to the latest firmware please let us know if it corrects the matter in either or both modes.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: MrW0lf on May 11, 2017, 08:11:14 am
Siglent AWG SPA1010 power amp have enough grunt ?

Similar option I use:
http://www.aimtti.com/product-category/waveform-amplifiers/aim-wa301 (http://www.aimtti.com/product-category/waveform-amplifiers/aim-wa301)
(http://www.aimtti.com/sites/default/files/image/large/wa301-700.jpg)
Often when find some cool far-out science article theres WA301 attached to DUT. Couldnt resist. Now I feel like real scientist!  8)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Amazing on May 12, 2017, 03:15:51 am
Is it possible to somehow combine burst and sweep on this unit?

I would like to generate a signal that is quiet for a period of time, and then has a sweep from 10MHz to 40MHz, and then goes quiet again, etc. 

I'm attempting to replicate the results on page 9 of this Keysight PDF:

http://literature.cdn.keysight.com/litweb/pdf/5992-1094EN.pdf?id=2653300 (http://literature.cdn.keysight.com/litweb/pdf/5992-1094EN.pdf?id=2653300)

Of course I can't do 300MHz to 900Mhz on the SD2042X, but I think that 10MHz to 40MHz would serve to demonstrate the feature.

Firmware: 2.01.01.17R5

Thanks!


Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on May 12, 2017, 04:43:59 am
Is it possible to somehow combine burst and sweep on this unit?

I would like to generate a signal that is quiet for a period of time, and then has a sweep from 10MHz to 40MHz, and then goes quiet again, etc. 

I'm attempting to replicate the results on page 9 of this Keysight PDF:

http://literature.cdn.keysight.com/litweb/pdf/5992-1094EN.pdf?id=2653300 (http://literature.cdn.keysight.com/litweb/pdf/5992-1094EN.pdf?id=2653300)

Of course I can't do 300MHz to 900Mhz on the SD2042X, but I think that 10MHz to 40MHz would serve to demonstrate the feature.

Firmware: 2.01.01.17R5

Thanks!
You should update the firmware in your unit, 17R5 is an old version now.
23R3 is current and you can see the list of  the last updated and fixed features here:
http://siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=5196&tid=15 (http://siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=5196&tid=15)

In the download there will be a list of all versions and what has been added an/or fixed which has been enough over time for Siglent to have released an updated manual very recently:
http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Documents/UserManual/SDG2000X_UserManual_UM0202X-E02B.pdf (http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Documents/UserManual/SDG2000X_UserManual_UM0202X-E02B.pdf)

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: MrW0lf on May 12, 2017, 08:03:47 am
23R3 is current and you can see the list of  the last updated and fixed features here:

...make sure you power cycle the unit after fw update... just in case...
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Amazing on May 12, 2017, 11:31:46 am
Thanks for the links, Tautech.  I read through the updated manual and change log and will be updating soon. 

Unfortunately it looks like the unit cannot produce the waveform that I want.  if the channel combining feature had a multiply (VCA) operation then I think I could do it.

Still a great little unit though.

...make sure you power cycle the unit after fw update... just in case...

Will do.  Sorry to hear about your troubles, I hope you get that worked out.  There should be an initial factory programming procedure that you can follow, assuming you can get hold of it.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on May 12, 2017, 12:59:25 pm
Thanks for the links, Tautech.  I read through the updated manual and change log and will be updating soon. 

Unfortunately it looks like the unit cannot produce the waveform that I want.  if the channel combining feature had a multiply (VCA) operation then I think I could do it.

Still a great little unit though.

...make sure you power cycle the unit after fw update... just in case...
Will do.  Sorry to hear about your troubles, I hope you get that worked out.  There should be an initial factory programming procedure that you can follow, assuming you can get hold of it.
Occasionally we hear about update problems but I never have them but I install updates on new units that are straight out of the box and set to factory defaults. I have started a dialogue with Siglent about this suggesting that all update instructions state FW updates be performed after the unit has been restored to factory default settings.
I've had NO acknowledgement that this might be the case for the zero update problems I have seen over several hundreds of updates that I have installed so without confirmation that I might be on o something the best advice I can give is to apply factory defaults before updating FW.
Until otherwise is advised or instructed in update instructions as I have asked Siglent to do, set the unit to factory defaults before updating FW to be very sure of extremely low risk of any update problem.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: pigrew on May 13, 2017, 08:13:43 pm
I recently received my "Amazon Warehouse Deal" SDG2042X. Unfortunately, it has a problem starting up.

Often, it displays a black screen when turned on. However, if I turn off,  wait about one second, and then turn it back on, it boots properly. If the wait time is too short or too long, it will remain on a black screen.

It was shipped with firmware 22, and has been upgraded to firmware 23. Otherwise, the unit functions normally. Rebooting works properly; the issue is only triggered when the power is cut.

My best guess is that there is a soldering issue of a decoupling capacitor somewhere.

If I break the warranty seal, is the warranty voided?

EDIT: Also, the unit came with a cal cert whole serial number did not match the unit delivered. Do other's calibration certificates have the proper generator serial number? Also, it didn't list the frequency reference used in the calibration, only a multimeter and a power meter.

Really shaky video of the unit not starting up (https://youtu.be/45m3PX49meo).

 (most boring video on YouTube; I must invest in a cellphone tripod mount.)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on May 13, 2017, 09:05:23 pm
I recently received my "Amazon Warehouse Deal" SDG2042X. Unfortunately, it has a problem starting up.

Often, it displays a black screen when turned on. However, if I turn off,  wait about one second, and then turn it back on, it boots properly. If the wait time is too short or too long, it will remain on a black screen.

It was shipped with firmware 22, and has been upgraded to firmware 23. Otherwise, the unit functions normally. Rebooting works properly; the issue is only triggered when the power is cut.

My best guess is that there is a soldering issue of a decoupling capacitor somewhere.

If I break the warranty seal, is the warranty voided?

EDIT: Also, the unit came with a cal cert whole serial number did not match the unit delivered. Do other's calibration certificates have the proper generator serial number? Also, it didn't list the frequency reference used in the calibration, only a multimeter and a power meter.
Why does this stuff always come up on the weekend.  :rant:
No there's some problem with this unit, and I'll point tech support to this post but it'll be ~30 hrs before I get a reply.

Regarding the Cal cert........can I ask if the factory box had previously been opened ?
2 layers of tape closing the box is the giveaway.
I'm just thinking if someone opened some boxes of these and mixed up the manual packs as they enclose the Cal cert, little info like this can determine if it happened at the factory or later.

Anyways, it's faulty IMO and need be replaced so don't open it please. Continue using it until the factory recommendation comes through.

Thanks for pointing this out.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: pigrew on May 13, 2017, 09:12:41 pm

Regarding the Cal cert........can I ask if the factory box had previously been opened ?
2 layers of tape closing the box is the giveaway.
I'm just thinking if someone opened some boxes of these and mixed up the manual packs as they enclose the Cal cert, little info like this can determine if it happened at the factory or later.

Anyways, it's faulty IMO and need be replaced so don't open it please. Continue using it until the factory recommendation comes through.

Thanks for pointing this out.

I purchased it "used" from Amazon. Someone else must have encountered the problem and returned it, and then Amazon thought it looked ok and resold it to me at a discount. It did not come in its original box, however otherwise it appeared new, with the screen protector still on it, in a heavy duty clear bag with silica gel, packed with a BNC cable and a power cable. The certificate it shipped is dated December 11 2016. Perhaps Amazon could have mixed them up? I don't know.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on May 13, 2017, 09:35:16 pm

Regarding the Cal cert........can I ask if the factory box had previously been opened ?
2 layers of tape closing the box is the giveaway.
I'm just thinking if someone opened some boxes of these and mixed up the manual packs as they enclose the Cal cert, little info like this can determine if it happened at the factory or later.

Anyways, it's faulty IMO and need be replaced so don't open it please. Continue using it until the factory recommendation comes through.

Thanks for pointing this out.

I purchased it "used" from Amazon. Someone else must have encountered the problem and returned it, and then Amazon thought it looked ok and resold it to me at a discount. It did not come in its original box, however otherwise it appeared new, with the screen protector still on it, in a heavy duty clear bag with silica gel, packed with a BNC cable and a power cable. The certificate it shipped is dated December 11 2016. Perhaps Amazon could have mixed them up? I don't know.
Cool, making more sense now. It would seem that Amazon staff did not recognise the fault, yep they probably wouldn't know any better.
Missing USB cable too ?
Manual and CD present ?

I've sent mail to the factory and US GM, they'll sort it for you.  ;)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: EmbeddedTec on May 24, 2017, 12:53:43 pm
I just received my second SDG2042X today.
Overall a very nice device, but Siglent seems to have a little quality assurance problem at the moment.

Maybe I accidentally ordered a unit for inverted signals only     :-DD
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: McBryce on May 24, 2017, 01:04:28 pm
I just received my second SDG2042X today.
Overall a very nice device, but Siglent seems to have a little quality assurance problem at the moment.

Maybe I accidentally ordered a unit for inverted signals only     :-DD

They've obviously sent you a device that was meant for Australia.

McBryce.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Siglent America on May 26, 2017, 02:26:28 pm
Actually, we changed the orientation of the rubber feet (for what reason I don't know) so you're two units must have come from different production batches.
But I did like the Australian comment.....
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: flash2b on May 26, 2017, 03:34:47 pm
My unit has same orientation of the rubber feed as the new unit shown above (as well as my Rigol DP832A). My unit is now about 6 month old.

Swap the old unit feed left to right an vice versa and you have soved it.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: pascal_sweden on May 26, 2017, 04:39:15 pm
The rubber feet that come out indented should be on the bottom. That's why they are called feet in the first place.

It must be a mistake in the factory.

Don't think the answer from Siglent above is correct. Have you checked with the factory, or did you just write that it is a change in production? Mistake in production you mean :)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Siglent America on May 26, 2017, 04:54:58 pm
My answer was correct.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Electro Fan on May 26, 2017, 07:03:05 pm
Most product photos show the indents on the bottom and the raised tabs (that lock into the indents) on the top.

However, the clearance of the bale (when it is tucked under the chassis) will be slightly greater if the raised tabs are on the bottom, otherwise the bale might be resting on the bench rather than having some clearance and allowing the chassis to rest on the rubber bumper feet with the additional clearance given by the raised tabs.  Probably no big deal, one way or the other, just an observation.  Might also depend on some unit to unit manufacturing variances.

One other micro adjustment consideration is that if the front bumpers are not fully extended (last mm or so) before they are tightened down with the torx screws, the rotating/depress knob might not be protected from hitting the bench if chassis is placed face down on the bench.  Even when the bumpers are fully extended the clearance of the rotating/depress knob is very small.  Given the small clearance of the rotating/depress knob it might be better not to place the chassis face down.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: pascal_sweden on May 26, 2017, 07:50:59 pm
So in the new design, the feet are no longer feet. They are heads instead of feeds.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on May 26, 2017, 07:59:25 pm
So in the new design, the feet are no longer feet. They are heads instead of feeds.
We discussed this in some thread a while back, the feet/bumpers can be flipped but IIRC there was a small mod required to have the bumpers fit the case nice and snug in the flipped orientation.

The factory may have changed the rubber casting slightly to allow them to be flipped......this I haven't physically checked.

Edit
Discussion of the rubber feet:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg1016306/#msg1016306 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg1016306/#msg1016306)

The mod required:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg1023105/#msg1023105 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg1023105/#msg1023105)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Electro Fan on May 27, 2017, 01:27:21 am
So in the new design, the feet are no longer feet. They are heads instead of feeds.
We discussed this in some thread a while back, the feet/bumpers can be flipped but IIRC there was a small mod required to have the bumpers fit the case nice and snug in the flipped orientation.

The factory may have changed the rubber casting slightly to allow them to be flipped......this I haven't physically checked.

Edit
Discussion of the rubber feet:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg1016306/#msg1016306 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg1016306/#msg1016306)

The mod required:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg1023105/#msg1023105 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg1023105/#msg1023105)

---

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg1074803/#msg1074803 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg1074803/#msg1074803)

- the plastic horns are upside down comparing to my SDG2042X, therefore it was impossible to stack these on top of each other (I resolved by flipping the horns upside down on SDG2042X, but one of the screw nuts just falled inside the casing.


.... presumably if there are nuts that secure the screws for the rubber feet/bumpers those nuts would be adhered to the inside of the chassis so they couldn't fall loose while flipping or adjusting the rubber feet/bumper (and create a short inside the chassis), right?  i.e., those nuts are captive, correct? 

(If the nuts aren't captive it wouldn't make sense to suggest that users should flip the bumpers around without pointing out the potential for causing nuts to fall loose in the chassis).
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on May 27, 2017, 01:49:12 am

.... presumably if there are nuts that secure the screws for the rubber feet/bumpers those nuts would be adhered to the inside of the chassis so they couldn't fall loose while flipping or adjusting the rubber feet/bumper (and create a short inside the chassis), right?  i.e., those nuts are captive, correct? 

(If the nuts aren't captive it wouldn't make sense to suggest that users should flip the bumpers around without pointing out the potential for causing nuts to fall loose in the chassis).
It's a while since I had those feet/bumpers off and IIRC the nuts are captured in the outer cover.
I wanted to see if previous models to X series could be retrofitted with the X feet but older models use different feet and a different fixing scheme.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Spaghetti_142 on May 28, 2017, 04:49:07 am
Hi Gaurav,
My question I have for you is there or do you have access to the 178R5 fimware or earlier, so I can hack mine to 120Mhz. If you have a copy or link please send it to me via email an attachment. I would greatly appreciate if you can help in anyway. I bought mine just a couple months to late.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: rf-loop on May 28, 2017, 05:44:54 am
Hi Gaurav,
My question I have for you is there or do you have access to the 178R5 fimware or earlier,

It (1.17R5)  is available from Siglent official download side. Only need read and look bit more than 5 seconds..

http://siglenteu.com/gjjrj.aspx?id=15&page=4 (http://siglenteu.com/gjjrj.aspx?id=15&page=4)

Also there is even earlier versions

Also here is 17R5 (http://www.siglent.fi\data\SDG2000X\SDG2000X-P17R5.rar)


Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: avionicpl on May 31, 2017, 01:35:09 pm
Hello everyone!  :D

My new SDG2042X had another "lock". Every time I enable DHCP, it shows all zeros in IP, mask, gateway (i.e. 0.0.0.0). Connection with the LAN shows "network connected, problem" in Windows 7 x64. So I thought I cannot telnet it anyway.

New day came with new idea. I switched to Ubuntu and created DHCP on laptop (SDG2042X had DHCP disabled). Manual IP entry for SDG2042X allowed me to telnet it without further problems (many thanks to "eevblog" 17R5  :-+). After upgrade and update, enabling DHCP from SDG2042X still does not work though...

...but I don't need it anymore. Thank you ALL :) for all the knowledge! :clap:
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Dwaine on May 31, 2017, 07:33:37 pm
I have the same problem.  I have to try DHCP multiple times and then the device finally gets an IP address.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: vk2amv on June 06, 2017, 10:56:43 am
many thanks to "eevblog" 17R5

Did your generator have a newer firmware and you downgraded to 17R5 for the hack?

I plan to pull the trigger on a SDG2042X next week from Trio Test & Measurement in Sydney.

I also plan to do the 120Mhz hack/upgrade.
Honestly I am not interested in buying the Siglent unless I can hack it. (Also planning on buying the Siglent SSA3021X Spectrum Analyzer in July, and if I could not hack that I would not buy it at all either)

I just want to double and triple check that even if the unit I buy comes with the latest firmware I can still downgrade it to do the hack and then re-upgrade as pervious people have done?

Thanks
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Safar on June 13, 2017, 11:57:51 am
Connection with the LAN shows "network connected, problem" in Windows 7 x64. So I thought I cannot telnet it anyway.

Sorry for stupid question, but what is your network topology? How you connect Gen? Is DHCP server (service) exist? What in DHCP server logs?

If you connect Gen directly to Win PC then there no DHCP server in segment by default. Gen have no server, client only. You should set addresses manually in Gen and PC in one subnet.

192.168.1.2/255.255.255.0 and 192.168.1.1/255.255.255.0 for example.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: ebclr on June 15, 2017, 03:29:37 am
"My new SDG2042X had another "lock". Every time I enable DHCP"

Turn off wait a min and turn on, on the boot up process they will ask your router DHCP for a IP, if you just turn DHCP nothing will happen
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Dwaine on June 15, 2017, 10:38:18 am
Yep.  You will be fine to use the downgrade firmware and bump it up higher.  Than upgrade the firmware to the latest version. 

You will be happy with this unit.  It's excellent for the money. Siglent really hit a home run with this one.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: avionicpl on June 20, 2017, 10:19:03 am
Sorry for late reply. My mailbox hacked me! eevblog.com suddenly went into spam  :-[
Quote from: vk2amv
Did your generator have a newer firmware and you downgraded to 17R5 for the hack?
Yes. I downgraded for the hack and upgraded again thereafter.
Quote from: Safar
Sorry for stupid question, but what is your network topology? How you connect Gen? Is DHCP server (service) exist? What in DHCP server logs?

If you connect Gen directly to Win PC then there no DHCP server in segment by default. Gen have no server, client only. You should set addresses manually in Gen and PC in one subnet.

192.168.1.2/255.255.255.0 and 192.168.1.1/255.255.255.0 for example.
You are right! At first I didn't know that SDG DHCP means "automatic IP from DHCP" and I thought it is either manual or SDG has DHCP built in. Your question was not stupid. It was me who was stupid here :D Now I know what was going on. Anyway - I did the hack with Ubuntu DHCP server with direct connect (no gateway) to SDG.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: flash2b on June 20, 2017, 01:13:39 pm
I am wondering why you cannot see on the screen if the Siglent SDG external clock is switched on or off on the main screen. Siglent did implement the "Phase Lock" lock-icon so they could add another lock-icon next to this for the exernal clock indication. On comparison, the Rigol DG series shows "Ext" on the screen when external clock is switched on.

May be Siglent should add this to the backlog for future firmware, that would be great.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Safar on June 20, 2017, 10:57:11 pm
Anyway - I did the hack with Ubuntu DHCP server with direct connect (no gateway) to SDG.

Ubuntu is a good OS, but Win have a lot of software that are not in Linux. You can use any third-party DHCP server on Win, Open DHCP for ex.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Plasmateur on June 22, 2017, 11:22:23 pm
I have a few questions about EasyWave and the SDG2042X.

I'm trying to generate the following signal.

f = cos(2pi*3.9e7) + cos(2pi*4e7)

It's basically a mixed 39MHz and a 40MHz sine wave.

The only way I've been able to do this through EasyWave is by doing the following,

1.) Create new wave with the following
Select SDG2000X box
Set samples to something high - 8,000,000
Setting the period to 1us.

2.) Draw - Equation Draw
equation draw formula is cos(x*39)+cos(x*40)

3.) Send wave to the SDG2042X


What I see on a spectrum analyzer appears to be 39MHz and 40MHz, but there are other frequencies present about 30dB lower. I was hoping this would be a bit cleaner.

I was also hoping it would be a bit easier to just combine frequencies by adjusting the number of periods and combining two waves, however adjusting the period is not possible as it is greyed out.

I'd rather just create the wave in Matlab and import that into the SDG2042X.

How can I clean this mixed frequency signal up so I just see two peaks at 39MHz and 40MHz on my spectrum analyzer?


Also, this is probably the 4th time I've asked this. And I've been pretty patient.
Is it going to be possible to trigger the two channels from a single software trigger in the next firmware update?

 
 
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: pigrew on June 23, 2017, 02:32:58 am
I have a few questions about EasyWave and the SDG2042X.

I'm trying to generate the following signal.

f = cos(2pi*3.9e7) + cos(2pi*4e7)

Could you describe where the spurious signals appear? Are they IM3/IM5? Or are they at some other frequency?

I don't have a spectrum analyzer, but I would suggest trying the following:

1) Use the internal CH1+CH2 mode, and check how clean the output is. By this, I mean set CH1 to 39 MHz and CH2 to 40 MHz. In the Utility->Output Setup->Wave Combine, set CH1 := CH1 + CH2

Is the result clean? If not, it's likely that the analog output amplifier. If they are, then you should be able to get the output displaying properly.

If it actually is able to cleanly output the sum, then you need to tune your ARB better. The goal is to have an integer multiple of both 39 MHz and 40 MHz periods in the waveform. Firstly, you should decide on the sample rate. Unfortunately, we are limited to 300 MSa/s. It would have been nice to choose a sample rate which is an integer multiple of both fundamental frequencies an use TrueARB mode.

So, we must use DDS mode. I would suggest using Matlab to generate the ARB sequence, and output it in the CSV format that the generator can load. First, choose some number of samples per period of the 40 MHz sine wave (48 is probably a good number). Create a list of the samples of a sine wave with that many samples per period, and the list for the 39 MHz at the same sampling rate.

I wrote a quick Matlab script, which I'm attaching, though I don't know if it'll produce anything better that what you've been able to do. Note that for this particular pair of frequencies, you should play the ARB at 1 MHz in DDS mode.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Plasmateur on June 23, 2017, 02:46:51 am
Ahhh sweet bro!

I didn't know all I needed to do was generate a csv file. Awesome. This will be fun tuning.

Without using EasyWave, do I need to put the csv file on a flash drive and load it into the front USB port of the SDG2042X? (seems like this is a potential work around to the 40MHz limit without cracking the device). Also, my equipment is not in front of me, so I'll have to do this tomorrow in the lab. I can check on the IM3/IM5 then.



Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: pigrew on June 23, 2017, 03:02:38 am
Ahhh sweet bro!

I didn't know all I needed to do was generate a csv file. Awesome. This will be fun tuning.

Without using EasyWave, do I need to put the csv file on a flash drive and load it into the front USB port of the SDG2042X? (seems like this is a potential work around to the 40MHz limit without cracking the device). Also, my equipment is not in front of me, so I'll have to do this tomorrow in the lab. I can check on the IM3/IM5 then.
The CSV file format isn't well documented anywhere that I can find.  All of the examples I found from Siglent also specified the amplitude and frequency (which I usually don't what linked to the waveform data).

Yes, use USB flash to transfer the file. After loading the save/recall menu, load the CSV file which copies it to to the internal storage.

And I've been able to output up to about 135 MHz by using ARB patterns. The amplitude sharply declines above that frequency. (128 MHz is very useful for the medical MRI field)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on June 23, 2017, 04:21:30 am
Ahhh sweet bro!

I didn't know all I needed to do was generate a csv file. Awesome. This will be fun tuning.

Without using EasyWave, do I need to put the csv file on a flash drive and load it into the front USB port of the SDG2042X? (seems like this is a potential work around to the 40MHz limit without cracking the device). Also, my equipment is not in front of me, so I'll have to do this tomorrow in the lab. I can check on the IM3/IM5 then.
There's a bit of specialised usage advice in the FAQ link on the SDG2kX Siglent product page:
http://www.siglentamerica.com/prodcut-pxzl.aspx?id=1364&tid=16&T=2 (http://www.siglentamerica.com/prodcut-pxzl.aspx?id=1364&tid=16&T=2)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: jjoonathan on June 25, 2017, 01:29:36 pm
The internal CH1+CH2 looks much cleaner (55dB SFDR vs 30dB), but I don't know if there's a different reason why that mode is unsuitable. Other than being squirreled away under Utilities > Output Setup > Wave Combine. They go to all the effort to make a friendly graphical diagram for the mode and then hide it away  :palm:

https://goo.gl/photos/uq5LBnGEsz7Ja48D9

EDIT: actual dB numbers
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: pigrew on June 25, 2017, 05:51:32 pm
The internal CH1+CH2 looks much cleaner (55dB SFDR vs 30dB), but I don't know if there's a different reason why that mode is unsuitable. Other than being squirreled away under Utilities > Output Setup > Wave Combine. They go to all the effort to make a friendly graphical diagram for the mode and then hide it away  :palm:

The disadvantage of the combine mode is that you can't use CH2 for anything else.  I don't know why it would be cleaner than ARB. Did you try the waveform I posted?

I'm assuming that the DDS mode is working at 300 MS/s, though I don't know for sure. The internal sine generator could use the DAC's internal oscillator, perhaps at a higher sample rate, but because of the low pass filter, I wouldn't expect this to create much of a difference. One difference could be if sinc interpolation of toggled on in one mode and off in the other. It'd be interesting to be able to toggle DAC interpolation on and off.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: colorado.rob on June 28, 2017, 01:52:55 am
Just got in my GPSDO as a lab reference and decided to hook it up to the SDG2000X after it settled for a bit.  I have been feeding it into the frequency counter to get a feel for the reference accuracy on the Siglent.  I could clearly see the slight drift during warm-up of the signal gen, having started the counter on a cold start.  After a few hous it has been pretty solid at +0.33ppm (reading the 10MHz signal at -.33ppm) and drifting no more than about 0.04ppm

1. Is it possible to use this data to better calibrate the SDG2000X? The only calibration instructions I have found is for the touch screen.
2. I would really love to see a graph of the frequency counter rather than having to capture the data via SCPI and write code to display it.  Any chance of getting this enhancement? (I see I'm not the first to ask for it.)



Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: colorado.rob on June 28, 2017, 01:57:11 am
The internal CH1+CH2 looks much cleaner (55dB SFDR vs 30dB), but I don't know if there's a different reason why that mode is unsuitable. Other than being squirreled away under Utilities > Output Setup > Wave Combine. They go to all the effort to make a friendly graphical diagram for the mode and then hide it away  :palm:

Is there an SCPI manual for the SDG2000X yet?  I've been referred to the SDG1000 SCPI manual but it seems incomplete.  It does not appear to have any instructions for Wave Combine documented.  I *need* this.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on June 28, 2017, 03:13:18 am
The internal CH1+CH2 looks much cleaner (55dB SFDR vs 30dB), but I don't know if there's a different reason why that mode is unsuitable. Other than being squirreled away under Utilities > Output Setup > Wave Combine. They go to all the effort to make a friendly graphical diagram for the mode and then hide it away  :palm:

Is there an SCPI manual for the SDG2000X yet?  I've been referred to the SDG1000 SCPI manual but it seems incomplete.  It does not appear to have any instructions for Wave Combine documented.  I *need* this.
This is another one that's not in the generic Download/Manuals folder, instead it's in the product Documents folder:
http://siglentamerica.com/prodcut-wd.aspx?id=1364&tid=16&T=2 (http://siglentamerica.com/prodcut-wd.aspx?id=1364&tid=16&T=2)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on June 28, 2017, 03:16:20 am
Just got in my GPSDO as a lab reference and decided to hook it up to the SDG2000X after it settled for a bit.  I have been feeding it into the frequency counter to get a feel for the reference accuracy on the Siglent.  I could clearly see the slight drift during warm-up of the signal gen, having started the counter on a cold start.  After a few hous it has been pretty solid at +0.33ppm (reading the 10MHz signal at -.33ppm) and drifting no more than about 0.04ppm

1. Is it possible to use this data to better calibrate the SDG2000X? The only calibration instructions I have found is for the touch screen.
2. I would really love to see a graph of the frequency counter rather than having to capture the data via SCPI and write code to display it.  Any chance of getting this enhancement? (I see I'm not the first to ask for it.)
Why don't you just use the GPSDO 10 MHz as the External reference and ignore/disable the inbuilt internal reference ?  ;)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: pigrew on June 28, 2017, 03:33:33 am
Just got in my GPSDO as a lab reference and decided to hook it up to the SDG2000X after it settled for a bit.  I have been feeding it into the frequency counter to get a feel for the reference accuracy on the Siglent.  I could clearly see the slight drift during warm-up of the signal gen, having started the counter on a cold start.  After a few hous it has been pretty solid at +0.33ppm (reading the 10MHz signal at -.33ppm) and drifting no more than about 0.04ppm

1. Is it possible to use this data to better calibrate the SDG2000X? The only calibration instructions I have found is for the touch screen.
2. I would really love to see a graph of the frequency counter rather than having to capture the data via SCPI and write code to display it.  Any chance of getting this enhancement? (I see I'm not the first to ask for it.)

I've found the results (mean function) of the internal counter to be weirdly quantized (IIRC, on the order of 0.1 ppm), so I wouldn't trust it better than maybe 0.5 ppm. I think it's a rounding error somewhere.

You can adjust the internal oscillator by using a special service mode. Browse the Service Manual (http://siglentamerica.com/prodcut-wd.aspx?id=1364&tid=16&T=2), and find the "Timebase Calibration" section (page 58 of manual's A revision), and follow the instructions there. (Go to the system info menu, and press 123654). Input 10 MHz to the back counter input. I found that the not enough digits were shown on the frequency counter display, so large ranges of many DAC codes would show the same counter value.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: invzim on July 01, 2017, 12:42:22 am
Quite happy with the unit, but after a few weeks it seems like the led's have given up.  I thought at first it was some wonky firmware issue, until I found the LEDTest.

I haven't actually bothered to open the unit up yet to check if there is a loose connector, but it has been stationary on my desk all the time so would be a little odd.

Anyone else experienced this?
Never heard of failed LED's before.  :-//
If you have had it only a short time from new it will be a warranty repair, please contact your local supplier to start the warranty process.

I got it via a dealer on aliexpress, so with return shipping etc, it would be about the same as getting a new one I suspect.  Anyho - I opened it up, the front panel is a bit of a PITA to both open and re-assemble.  The display board has 2 74HC595 serial shift registers that drives the LED.  I had a little look at the signals and all seemed fine, except the output enable was constantly high resulting in no output.  It has a 'local' pull-down, and what I presume is a schmitt-trigger that is driven from the main unit.  This signal was always high.  I didn't bother troubleshooting the main board further - but I suspect it's a software issue.  Anyho, I just removed a resistor the signal goes through (R196, 0603, measured to 5k), output enable will now stay low forever and the LED works like they should.

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on July 01, 2017, 01:42:59 am
Quite happy with the unit, but after a few weeks it seems like the led's have given up.  I thought at first it was some wonky firmware issue, until I found the LEDTest.

I haven't actually bothered to open the unit up yet to check if there is a loose connector, but it has been stationary on my desk all the time so would be a little odd.

Anyone else experienced this?
Never heard of failed LED's before.  :-//
If you have had it only a short time from new it will be a warranty repair, please contact your local supplier to start the warranty process.

I got it via a dealer on aliexpress, so with return shipping etc, it would be about the same as getting a new one I suspect.  Anyho - I opened it up, the front panel is a bit of a PITA to both open and re-assemble.  The display board has 2 74HC595 serial shift registers that drives the LED.  I had a little look at the signals and all seemed fine, except the output enable was constantly high resulting in no output.  It has a 'local' pull-down, and what I presume is a schmitt-trigger that is driven from the main unit.  This signal was always high.  I didn't bother troubleshooting the main board further - but I suspect it's a software issue.  Anyho, I just removed a resistor the signal goes through (R196, 0603, measured to 5k), output enable will now stay low forever and the LED works like they should.
Weird.  :-//
Despite where you acquired it from you can contact the closest Siglent branch to you with these links:
http://www.siglent.com/ENs/lxwms.aspx?id=1337 (http://www.siglent.com/ENs/lxwms.aspx?id=1337)

NOW, is there a crack in the PCB, it looks like it in your pic.  :-\
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: MrW0lf on July 05, 2017, 08:44:06 pm
My bricked SDG2042X (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/msg1203573/#msg1203573) is finally ok. siglent.eu (http://siglent.eu) sent me new mb. Actually they first sent whole new unit by mistake :P New unit went back and to compensate hassle they kindly gave me SDG2122X mb. So guess world's first: SDG2042X that is officially SDG2122X with proper new serial and all 8)

Torn apart using precision tools:

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=329383)

Old mb:

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=329385)

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=329387)

Result with new one in:

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=329389)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: flash2b on July 06, 2017, 10:37:42 am
Funny the sticker on the boad list it as SDM3055, so the mb is probably the same in both SDM meters as in SDG2000X generators.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Aeternam on July 06, 2017, 01:22:52 pm
On a side note, what became of the mod to isolate the output of this thing? I remember being very interested in that...  ;D

Or was that project the reason for this board replacement?   :popcorn:
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: MrW0lf on July 06, 2017, 01:44:02 pm
I replaced "linux" board, not signal board. I'm quite sure board was actually 100% ok. Bricking was due to some software situation after firmware update. Sadly there seems to be no (public) procedure to "reset" software.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Plasmateur on July 13, 2017, 03:05:55 am
I'm having trouble populating an IP address after pressing "DHCP On" both after I've attempted to connect to my desktop, and then my laptop. The IP Address I receive back is "0.0.0.0" and I am unable to use Putty into the device.

Does anybody know what might be causing this?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on July 13, 2017, 05:15:37 am
I'm having trouble populating an IP address after pressing "DHCP On" both after I've attempted to connect to my desktop, and then my laptop. The IP Address I receive back is "0.0.0.0" and I am unable to use Putty into the device.

Does anybody know what might be causing this?
FWIW, with DHCP On, the device should grab the IP, subnet etc from what it's connected to automatically.
When Off, you need populate the address manually.
For Windows, you can get that info with the ipconfig command  in a Dos box.

I usually have a network switch close at hand that sorts it all out when I have DHCP On.

Yell if there's still a problem and I'll get a unit out and check for you.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Plasmateur on July 15, 2017, 07:55:42 pm
For some reason I wasn't able to get the unit to populate an IP address, but I was still able to putty into the device to do what I needed to do by just manually setting the IP.

Tautech,

Do you know if Siglent is still working on firmware updates? If so, will we be able to trigger both channels at the same time from a software trigger?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on July 15, 2017, 08:01:45 pm
For some reason I wasn't able to get the unit to populate an IP address, but I was still able to putty into the device to do what I needed to do by just manually setting the IP.
OK, I'll get one out and have a fiddle............maybe not until a bit later.

Quote
Tautech,

Do you know if Siglent is still working on firmware updates? If so, will we be able to trigger both channels at the same time from a software trigger?
Yes of course they are and yes I haven't forgotten you request.
I'll do some homework.  ;)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on July 15, 2017, 08:47:35 pm
@ Plasmateur
Sorry haven't got a 2042X ATM but this SDG1032X UI should be the same.

Enter Utility/Interface (Page 2)/LAN State = On (toggle if needed)
LAN Setup/DHCP...........toggle to ON and wait for the IP, SN and Gateway to get auto populated.
Utility = Exit and save

Does yours not do this ?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: exe on July 20, 2017, 08:09:31 pm
Hi guys! Is it possible make SDG2042X to remember settings across reboots (except for enabled channels)?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on July 20, 2017, 08:54:42 pm
Hi guys! Is it possible make SDG2042X to remember settings across reboots (except for enabled channels)?
Yes of course.
You can find the settings for Power On as Last (used) or Default in the Utilities menu.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: pigrew on July 25, 2017, 05:25:41 pm
Is there a way for the generator to force an external reference (and never change to the internal reference)?

Currently, the frequency reference is switched to internal (with no indication on the GUI) when the frequency reference is turned off. It's too easy to continue using it thinking that the frequency is still locked (and yielding bad data).

Also, I'm worried that when it defaults to internal reference, it is outputting 10 MHz on it's reference output which is directly connected to another instrument's 10 MHz out. Having two instruments outputting 10 MHz into eachother can't be a good thing. I don't know if the hardware supports it, but it'd be nice to tell it to disable the 10MHz output while using the internal reference.

There are a few parameters (like reference mode, screensaver, language, number format, and beeper) that I'd really like to always have saved (irrespective of the "power-on setting"). Maybe as a work-around, there could be an option to load a particular saved configuration on startup(so the choices would be factory default, particular configuration, or last configuration)?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: flash2b on July 26, 2017, 09:52:02 am
I asked for the same thing, but no one reacted.

I am wondering why you cannot see on the screen if the Siglent SDG external clock is switched on or off on the main screen. Siglent did implement the "Phase Lock" lock-icon so they could add another lock-icon next to this for the exernal clock indication. On comparison, the Rigol DG series shows "Ext" on the screen when external clock is switched on.

May be Siglent should add this to the backlog for future firmware, that would be great.

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Dwaine on August 10, 2017, 02:10:02 pm
Wondering if graphing and histogram functionality in the counter function is an option the firmware team can do?

Maybe grab the same code from the DMM firmware.  I was using my SDG2000x last night and wished I had a graph displaying some values.

I think a lot of people would like those two options.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: eurofox on August 10, 2017, 02:20:31 pm
I just order one  :-+

Seems it is one of the best generator for the money + 120Mhz hack  :-DD
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bson on August 10, 2017, 10:27:29 pm
Currently, the frequency reference is switched to internal (with no indication on the GUI) when the frequency reference is turned off. It's too easy to continue using it thinking that the frequency is still locked (and yielding bad data).
Even worse, it will start driving the reference port as an output, and when you plug in your frequency standard again it will short.  The direction shouldn't be automatic...  If set to input the instrument can auto detect a signal; if set to output they could auto detect a load (if possible), but the direction itself needs to be a purely manual setting.

Ideally, when set to use an external reference an indicator should be used to show the state of the input.  No pop-ups or dialogs - those are too easy to miss and just annoy.  A simple indicator and possibly a beep the first time it locks.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Gary1942 on August 12, 2017, 10:17:26 pm
This is page 32 of this thread. Apologies for not having read all the posts. Also, I could not find a place to ask a service question on siglent.com.

I bought my SDG 2042 from Amazon in February 2016.

I saw some comments on the net about firmware updates. I have never connected my SDG 2042x to the network, so, today I plugged in a network cable and turned it on (it has not been on for at least a month). It reaches the boot logo page and hung there. I left it on for a few hours thinking that it was downloading an update, but half a day later, still the same. I turned it off and back on, still hangs on the Siglent logo with the network plugged in or not.

Any advice?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Dwaine on August 13, 2017, 01:02:50 am
The firmware update is only by USB.   The hanging when connected by network cable to a router, maybe try and disconnect the Ethernet cable and power cycle the unit. Hopefully it will finally boot successfully. 
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: pigrew on August 13, 2017, 01:28:51 am
I saw some comments on the net about firmware updates. I have never connected my SDG 2042x to the network, so, today I plugged in a network cable and turned it on (it has not been on for at least a month). It reaches the boot logo page and hung there. I left it on for a few hours thinking that it was downloading an update, but half a day later, still the same. I turned it off and back on, still hangs on the Siglent logo with the network plugged in or not.

Any advice?

Email the Siglent folks, at the email address listed  on this page (http://www.siglentamerica.com/contact_us).

Connecting to a LAN shouldn't cause it not to boot. Firmware updates are only performed when you ask it to load firmware update files from USB flash storage. This sounds like there's a bad component in the unit, or its flash storage has corrupt data.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: spidola on August 13, 2017, 02:38:53 pm
My unit came with the 2.01.01.23R5 firmware. This version is not yet available at the official site.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: mspec on August 13, 2017, 11:39:38 pm
I recently purchased the SDG1032X version and was going to give it a go to see if I could try the hack to turn it into the 60 MHz version however telnet is requesting a username and pass. Anybody know what the default for this might be ??
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: CustomEngineerer on August 14, 2017, 02:54:55 am
As far as I know no one has figured out the telnet username/password. And since the 1000X came out after Siglent added the username/password to the firmware, I don't know of a way to liberate the 1000X. Good luck though, do let us know if you manage to figure it out.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Dwaine on August 14, 2017, 04:10:53 am
My unit came with the 2.01.01.23R5 firmware. This version is not yet available at the official site.

I wonder what changes are in the new firmware?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on August 14, 2017, 05:26:10 am
My unit came with the 2.01.01.23R5 firmware. This version is not yet available at the official site.

I wonder what changes are in the new firmware?
Chasing this ^ up.
Coming back with an edit when I find out.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Qw3rtzuiop on August 14, 2017, 05:46:53 am
23R5 isnt new. The update can be found at siglent.com. There is also a changelog.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on August 14, 2017, 07:36:18 am
23R5 isnt new. The update can be found at siglent.com. There is also a changelog.
Link please.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Dwaine on August 14, 2017, 07:46:48 am
Only 2.01.01.23R3 is listed on the WEB Site?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on August 14, 2017, 07:49:41 am
Only 2.01.01.23R3 is listed on the WEB Site?
Yup.
Haven't got any new SDG2kX's to check either.  :(

Then I wonder if spidola mistyped 5 for 3 ?  :-//
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: spidola on August 14, 2017, 08:42:04 am
Only 2.01.01.23R3 is listed on the WEB Site?
Yup.
Haven't got any new SDG2kX's to check either.  :(
Then I wonder if spidola mistyped 5 for 3 ?  :-//
No mistake here. The latest firmware is 2.01.01.23R5 and it is not yet available at the support site. Let's see who can find it first  ;)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Qw3rtzuiop on August 14, 2017, 09:01:13 am
Sorry i made a mistake. I just found 23R3 on the website.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Dwaine on August 16, 2017, 02:13:11 am
Only 2.01.01.23R3 is listed on the WEB Site?
Yup.
Haven't got any new SDG2kX's to check either.  :(
Then I wonder if spidola mistyped 5 for 3 ?  :-//
No mistake here. The latest firmware is 2.01.01.23R5 and it is not yet available at the support site. Let's see who can find it first  ;)

I guess we will have to wait until Siglent posts the newer firmware..  Thanks for the screenshot..
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: spidola on August 16, 2017, 03:46:36 pm
I guess we will have to wait until Siglent posts the newer firmware..  Thanks for the screenshot..
It appears, the next released firmware is going to be 23R6, they skip posting 23R5 ???
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: eurofox on August 16, 2017, 07:08:18 pm
I got mine today and hack it from 40Mhz to 120Mhz in 5 minutes  :-DD :-+
Very nice generator  :-+
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Co6aka on August 17, 2017, 02:48:19 am
Has anyone tried hacking the telnet password with something like THC-Hydra?   https://www.thc.org/ (https://www.thc.org/)

Also, I thought there was some recent telnet vulnerability and exploit???  :-//
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: CustomEngineerer on August 17, 2017, 12:09:57 pm
Yes, and let it run for a couple of weeks with no luck. But feel free to try yourself, you never know, you might get lucky.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: IDEngineer on August 17, 2017, 11:27:28 pm
Is there an EEVblog-preferred vendor for the SDG2042X? TEquipment doesn't carry it, and I want to be supportive of the EEV community. Any discount codes would be appreciated too. Thanks in advance!
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: CustomEngineerer on August 18, 2017, 12:34:36 am
I bought mine from tequipment, but they no longer sale Siglent equipment (no idea why). I believe the current recommended company if you are in America is Saelig. They have a discount thread on this board (Test Equipment) where you can request a discount code. I'm pretty sure its for the same discount amount that tequipment offers to forum members.

Edit: Found the thread: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/equipment-discounts-from-saelig/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/equipment-discounts-from-saelig/)

Edit2: I'm not actually endorsing Saelig since I've never used them, but don't remember seeing any complaints about them, and know they do offer a discount to forum members.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: CustomEngineerer on August 18, 2017, 12:49:23 am
Yes, and let it run for a couple of weeks with no luck. But feel free to try yourself, you never know, you might get lucky.

To be clear, I ran John the Ripper against the passwd/shadow files (for speed since had access to them), not directly against telnet. It was something I had played with many years ago, but certainly wouldn't consider myself an expert. Plus, was more just playing around, since there were already ways to unlock the extra bandwidth, and I didn't really need it anyways. I seem to remember there was at least 1 or 2 (probably more) other users also trying similar around that time. I couldn't tell you exactly what they did, but I really didn't put a lot of effort into it, just ran it several times using pretty generic dictionary files. The last time I tried, it ran for two to three weeks before I lost power at home and computer shutdown.
I do remember seeing on older thread on this board somewhere where someone had figured out one of the older Siglent passwords (thinking it was the previous generation of generators, SDG4000 or SDG5000 SDG800 or SDG1000 maybe), and so I did try variations of that password, but never got anywhere.

Edit: Updated incorrect previous generation generator models
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: mspec on August 18, 2017, 03:38:48 am
As I mentioned earlier I have the SDG1032X which more out of curiosity I would like to see if I can get into. I am more wondering what username people have used for the login: line. Would it be Root or Admin or perhaps even just telnet. I am not putting a massive amount of effort into this but will have a play around.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: IDEngineer on August 21, 2017, 09:04:39 pm
I bought mine from tequipment, but they no longer sale Siglent equipment (no idea why). I believe the current recommended company if you are in America is Saelig. They have a discount thread on this board (Test Equipment) where you can request a discount code. I'm pretty sure its for the same discount amount that tequipment offers to forum members.
Thanks, I'll dig into that. Sorry for the delay in responding, I thought this forum emailed a notification when a response showed up. Maybe my settings are off, I'll check.

Thanks again!
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: CustomEngineerer on August 21, 2017, 11:06:01 pm
The telnet username (at least on the SDG2000X, assuming its the same for the SDG1000X) is root. lowercase
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: pigrew on August 21, 2017, 11:54:59 pm
I've noticed that there's a weird frequency offset in my SDG2042X.

I've used the external reference to lock to my frequency counter's 10 MHz output (square wave mode). The counter is reporting the following:

Programmed PeriodReading
1000 s1000.266442
100 s100.0053211
10 s10.0000525
1 s1.000000450
0.1 s0.1000000024
0.01 s0.0100000002

It seems that there is an off-by-one error in the generator's firmware? Can someone else confirm, or has this been reported already?

Or is my frequency counter broken? The data is following a log-log trend.

How I wish that these instruments were open source......

EDIT: If this measurement is true, a 1 hour period would actually be 1 hour, 11 seconds. Programming 3 hours would yield 3 hours, 1 minute, 59 seconds. 12 hours should yield an extra 37 minutes.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: rf-loop on August 22, 2017, 07:53:18 am

Programmed PeriodReading
1000 s1000.266442
100 s100.0053211
10 s10.0000525
1 s1.000000450
0.1 s0.1000000024
0.01 s0.0100000002




I made test with only some periods.

Test setup. HP53131A
SDG2042X  FW 2.01.01.23R5  HW 02-01-00-35-00

Both equipments use same frequency reference clock, in this case both use HP53131A internal (option)  OCXO what really is very good and with exellent short time stability. Much better than example Trimble GPS crap or cheap Rb oscillators if look very short time jitter. Long time drift is other thing. And in this setup, drift in period time is nearly eliminated because both use same reference. (but locking quality to reference may differ but no need "time nutting"  for this case)

Signal level from SDG to counter 3Vpp @ 50ohm.  Counter trigger (Auto Off) level set to zero and positive edge. Counter in DC coupling mode.   
Signal type square and measured risetime under 5ns

Due to lack of time not measured more long periods and this may give enough confirmations for  your findings.

SDG2042X period measured (gt = gate time)
10ms»»» 0, 010 000 000 02s  gt 1s
100ms»» 0, 100 000 002 38 s gt 10s
1s »»»»» 1, 000 000 450 19 s gt 20s
10s»»»»10, 000 052 463 5 s   gt 100s
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: pigrew on August 22, 2017, 02:00:46 pm
Due to lack of time not measured more long periods and this may give enough confirmations for your findings.

Looks like your measurements match mine fairly well. I ran some 3600s runs overnight with the internal timebase, and logging on my computer (clock synchronized to NTP, probably within 50ms). The 50% duty cycle square has low times of 1815.6 seconds and high times of 1800 seconds. I won't add this to my previous post since it uses the internal timebase instead of being locked to the counter, but it is close to the observed trend (3611.7 sec was predicted). The SDG2042X's internal timebase was adjusted to be within 10ppb of a (cheap TruePosition) GPSDO at the start of test, and was within that range at the end of the test, too.

This is a 50.2% duty cycle. Close enough? I'm about to start a T=4 hour run (reference locked), which take an extra 3.6 minutes.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: siglent5 on August 23, 2017, 12:35:33 am
Due to the principle of DDS, the output frequency will have some error.For the freq of dds is 300MHz,and the acc is 49 bits,you can exactly calculate the true freq when you set the period as 1000s.For example,when period is 1000s, ideal ftw =0.001*2^49/300M=1876.5,the actual ftw= 1876,so the actual period = 1000.2664417578.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: CustomEngineerer on August 23, 2017, 12:59:22 am
Great explanation siglent5. Those calculations perfectly match the reported results.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: pigrew on August 23, 2017, 01:51:28 am
Due to the principle of DDS, the output frequency will have some error.For the freq of dds is 300MHz,and the acc is 49 bits,you can exactly calculate the true freq when you set the period as 1000s. For example,when period is 1000s, ideal ftw =0.001*2^49/300M=1876.5,the actual ftw= 1876,so the actual period = 1000.2664417578.

I hadn't been aware that the square wave mode uses DDS on the unit (or that DDS would generate such a weird result for low frequencies). I found a reasonable description of frequency tuning words (https://www.gamry.com/application-notes/EIS/waveform-generation-and-frequency-resolution/).

However, I still feel the equipment should be able to do better. For example, using TrueARB mode with the included Square50 ARB, I'm able to output signals with 10.00000000s periods. Or is there some disadvantage to that which I'm not aware of? (Probably less accurate duty cycles?)

Perhaps there's an even better way than these that I don't know about. For example, can the sample rate be reduced for low-frequency outputs instead of using the standard DDS mode? That would help both sine-generation and square generation.

Thanks!
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: siglent5 on August 23, 2017, 03:27:18 am
1.the awg can output wave at any frequency because all of the wave use the improved dds.
2.the truearb mode can greatly reduce the error,but still have some error.for example,when you set square50 arb with its freq = 100mhz(period =10s),you can see the Srate =16384 Sa/s(because the point of square50 arb is 16384).it means that the freq of dds is 16384 Hz,and in this freq,the error is very small,so you measure the period =10.0000000000.
3.the sample rate of the dac is fixed.so if you reduced the freq of dds,you may need an additional module (such as DUC(Digital Up Conversion))to reample the  low sample rate signal to the fixed 300MHz ,then the system may be complex.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: thememo on August 27, 2017, 06:41:21 pm
I got mine today and hack it from 40Mhz to 120Mhz in 5 minutes  :-DD :-+
Very nice generator  :-+

how you can do that? My signal generator came with version 22R5 , i downgraded it to 17R5( actually i tried to 16R2 but signal generator did not permit) . when i connect to LAN ,i did not see the signal generator's ip , you can look the pictures... main problem is when i click the DHCP ON, ip adress and others became 0.0.0.0.  any idea  |O
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: eurofox on August 27, 2017, 07:46:08 pm
I got mine today and hack it from 40Mhz to 120Mhz in 5 minutes  :-DD :-+
Very nice generator  :-+

how you can do that? My signal generator came with version 22R5 , i downgraded it to 17R5( actually i tried to 16R2 but signal generator did not permit) . when i connect to LAN ,i did not see the signal generator's ip , you can look the pictures... main problem is when i click the DHCP ON, ip adress and others became 0.0.0.0.  any idea  |O

Maybe you have a problem with your cable, router or home network.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: IDEngineer on August 27, 2017, 08:09:53 pm
Quote
Maybe you have a problem with your cable, router or home network.
Perhaps he doesn't have a DHCP server? If he runs everything statically addressed, DHCP won't find a server and won't be assigned an address.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: rf-loop on August 27, 2017, 08:42:41 pm

how you can do that? My signal generator came with version 22R5 , i downgraded it to 17R5( actually i tried to 16R2 but signal generator did not permit) . when i connect to LAN ,i did not see the signal generator's ip , you can look the pictures... main problem is when i click the DHCP ON, ip adress and others became 0.0.0.0.  any idea  |O

As can read in 17R5 documents that after this version (and later) can not downgrade to older FW than 17R5. Of course this restriction is also inherited in the following versions.

It is not at all mandatory to turn DHCP on. There is not any reason to use DHCP. Just without it you need set your PC network for working with  IP what you can find in SDG window without DHCP on. 

I've also seen 23R5 with my own eyes (most new units with this version but not downloadable from Siglent at this time).
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: IDEngineer on August 28, 2017, 03:29:17 pm
I've also seen 23R5 with my own eyes (most new units with this version but not downloadable from Siglent at this time).
Which raises an interesting question: If you are getting a brand new unit (arrives tomorrow), does the unit allow you to save the existing firmware to a file, do the downgrade, apply the hack, and then upgrade back to the as-shipped 23R5 firmware? Or are you stuck with a previous rev if you want to use the hack?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: rf-loop on August 28, 2017, 03:54:20 pm
I've also seen 23R5 with my own eyes (most new units with this version but not downloadable from Siglent at this time).
Which raises an interesting question: If you are getting a brand new unit (arrives tomorrow), does the unit allow you to save the existing firmware to a file, do the downgrade, apply the hack, and then upgrade back to the as-shipped 23R5 firmware? Or are you stuck with a previous rev if you want to use the hack?

Not using simple methods
If you go out from 23R5,  at this time most new downloadable FW is 23R3.
From 17R5 or higher version versions can not go under 17R5 version. But higher versions are compatible for uödate  even older than 17R5 without intermediate update step - afaik.
For get more new FW version  than 23R3 need wait until Siglent publish new version in download center.
As we can see they also need care how new public versions are compatible with every previous versions so it need carefully think what to publish. In factory they do not need care because new FW go to fresh unit without any previous FW.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: IDEngineer on August 28, 2017, 08:09:58 pm
If you go out from 23R5,  at this time most new downloadable FW is 23R3.
Then I guess the question becomes "What bugs were fixed, or features were added, between 23R3 and 23R5?" If you can live without the improvements, then the downgrade is OK. Otherwise, might have to hold off on the BW upgrade until 23R5 is released as standalone firmware.

Lots of devices allow you to download the firmware out of the device and save it as a file as a way to preserve your factory setup, in case something goes wrong. I guess not the SDG2000X series....
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: McBryce on August 31, 2017, 12:44:14 pm
You can just download the version that is in your device from the internet, no need to download it from the device.

McBryce.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: IDEngineer on August 31, 2017, 03:52:57 pm
You can just download the version that is in your device from the internet, no need to download it from the device.
Except that present production is shipping with 23R5, while:
Quote
at this time most new downloadable FW is 23R3
In other words, the latest production firmware is later than what can be downloaded. If you cannot extract the firmware from the device, then applying the hack means you lose the latest firmware update(s), at least until Saelig makes your production version available for download.

Hence the discussion regarding whether the changes in the updates are more important than the bandwidth increase.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Dwaine on August 31, 2017, 11:59:10 pm
Anyone have a clue why Siglent has not released the new firmware by download?   You would think they would of posted it by now.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on September 01, 2017, 01:25:09 am
Anyone have a clue why Siglent has not released the new firmware by download?   You would think they would of posted it by now.
One can only suspect the changes in 23R5 are so minor and until further needed tweaks are added there's no point in releasing it. I have no idea of what improvements might be in 23R5.
An example is the very recent FW for their bench DMM's, only released yesterday but the FW file dates from April.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: exe on September 01, 2017, 10:12:24 am
Anyone have a clue why Siglent has not released the new firmware by download?   You would think they would of posted it by now.

Why you want it so desperately? :) Is there anything you want to improve?

So far my biggest complains are:

1) Wheel (rotating knob) misses clicks when turned fast

2) It does not react on input when displaying "parameter limit is reached", also the message stays for too long to my taste.

3) The wheel changes step. E.g., I have amplitude set to 1V with 1V step. If I turn it CCW it will set to 0.9V and 0.1V step. Now if I turn it back again it will be 1.0V, but still 0.1V step. I want it either not to change the step at all, or put it back where it was.


Now question: is it safe to short the output? I think so, but I would like to confirm. From specs looks like I can because maximum output current corresponds to short-cirtuit current (taking 50Ohm impedance) at maximum output voltage.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: rf-loop on September 01, 2017, 01:00:46 pm

Now question: is it safe to short the output? I think so, but I would like to confirm. From specs looks like I can because maximum output current corresponds to short-cirtuit current (taking 50Ohm impedance) at maximum output voltage.

It reads clearly in data sheet. What confirmation it need. Ohm´s law confirm it. Is it not enough strong confirmation?
There read max current 200mA.
Source internal resistance is 50ohm.
Source maximum Voltage to infinite (Hi-Z) load is 10V.
200mA current can exist only if load resistance is zero.  Some peoples call zero resistance also as "short circuit".
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: exe on September 01, 2017, 09:39:17 pm
Can it drive capacitive load?

What if the cap is not fully discharged? Like, I apply sine on the cap, disconnect it when it's fully charged and then connect again when output is low.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: pigrew on September 02, 2017, 05:12:23 am
Can it drive capacitive load?

What if the cap is not fully discharged? Like, I apply sine on the cap, disconnect it when it's fully charged and then connect again when output is low.
It isn't really specified if it does or not.

My feeling is that a capacitive load is OK. One problem could be stability of the output amplifier. However the series 50 ohm likely makes it always stable.

With a large enough capacitor voltage, you could break down dialectics/overload the output transistors and cause serious damage. I think it should be OK to connect a capacitor that is charged to less than 5 volts, or so.

There is an overvoltage protection feature of the generator that might save it from some charged capacitors. The protection is triggered when the output terminal is 4V or 11V (depending on programmed output offset and amplitude)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on September 02, 2017, 07:09:17 am
For further info check the SDG2000X User manual:
2.13.10 Overvoltage Protection
If the state is set to ON, overvoltage protection of CH1 and CH2 will take effect once any of the following conditions is met. When overvoltage protection occurs, a message will be displayed and the output is disabled.
-The absolute value of input voltage is higher than 11V±0.5V when the amplitude of the generator is higher than or equal to 3.2Vpp or the DC offset is higher than or equal to |2VDC|.
-The absolute value of input voltage is higher than 4V±0.5V when the amplitude of the generator is lower than 3.2Vpp or the DC offset is lower than |2VDC|.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bson on September 03, 2017, 01:09:39 am
1) Wheel (rotating knob) misses clicks when turned fast
This is perfectly normal for mechanical encoders - the mechanical switches have a maximum rate they can switch at since they need to physically contact between detents.  Optical encoders are of course much faster but tend to be expensive, and it's tough to justify a $50 encoder in a $500 instrument when a $3 one is 90% as good.  It's what you get when designing to a price point...

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: rf-loop on September 04, 2017, 06:20:12 am
Here I have tested SDG1000X amplitude  flatness between 5MHz - 60MHz. (SDG1000X max)
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1000x-waveform-generators/msg1293685/#msg1293685 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1000x-waveform-generators/msg1293685/#msg1293685)

It is good to make tests where results are fully comparable due to enough exactly same test setup, even signal cable is same in both tests. This is also important because there is no perfect impedance match and in all cases there is more or less reflections.


For compare here is exactly same setup with SDG2000X.  Sweeps from 5MHz to 120MHz (SDG2000X max) with SDG output set levels +15, +9, +3  and -9dBm.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=347769;image)

Edit Add: SA horizontal scale linear. SDG frequency sweep linear.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: exe on September 04, 2017, 09:10:09 pm
Thanks for the test! Is horizontal axis linear or logarithmic? I can't figure out...
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on September 04, 2017, 09:32:21 pm
Thanks for the test! Is horizontal axis linear or logarithmic? I can't figure out...
11.5 MHz/div
120-5=115(Span)/2=57.5(Center frequency)/5div(half display)=11.5
For this test Start and Stop only will be set and then CF will be whatever it is.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: rf-loop on September 05, 2017, 03:33:27 am
Thanks for the test! Is horizontal axis linear or logarithmic? I can't figure out...

SDG linear, SA linear. Also my clock run linear and my calendar run linear.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: mark03 on September 06, 2017, 05:02:54 am
1) Wheel (rotating knob) misses clicks when turned fast
This is perfectly normal for mechanical encoders - the mechanical switches have a maximum rate they can switch at since they need to physically contact between detents.

I am 99+% certain this has nothing to do with the encoder hardware, and everything to do with software, e.g. reading the encoder from Linux userspace.  Surely the encoder is capable of better than 2 Hz updates, which is close to the observed limit on my 2042X.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bson on September 06, 2017, 11:16:47 pm
Surely the encoder is capable of better than 2 Hz updates, which is close to the observed limit on my 2042X.
Interesting.  I just checked, and counted 48 steps in 10 seconds, which is just under 5Hz.  I get about the same with or without the beep enabled, so at least that has nothing to do with it.  From my experience working with inexpensive Bourne mechanical encoders, they can get up to maybe 10-20Hz, but that depends on how many positions/detents they have.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on September 08, 2017, 02:00:32 am
Just spotted new firmware:
Version: V2.01.01.23R7
14.8 Mb
http://siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=6418&tid=15 (http://siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=6418&tid=15)

Changelog
1.Supported system recovery from U-disk.
2.Fixed a bug which may cause the generator report a false over voltage alarm when start-up.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: McBryce on September 08, 2017, 07:23:59 am
Downloaded, will try tonight. My unit regularly suffers from number 2: bug which may cause the generator report a false over voltage alarm when start-up.

McBryce.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: MrW0lf on September 08, 2017, 07:25:41 am
2.Fixed a bug which may cause the generator report a false over voltage alarm when start-up.[/i]

Yes! It was FALSE alarm!!! Now I can sleep again :phew: Got that when booting lab up and gen connected to device that costs 2x of my current car and would be hurt by actual alarm trigger voltage.


Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: flash2b on September 09, 2017, 08:37:42 am
Hope that janekivi will create a password friendly version of the new firmware soon.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: fitch on September 10, 2017, 03:41:38 am
Does the new firmware leave the 120MHz hack intact?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: eurofox on September 10, 2017, 07:42:52 am
Does the new firmware leave the 120MHz hack intact?

Yep  :-+
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Plasmateur on September 17, 2017, 12:56:01 am
So.....still unable to trigger both channels at the same time with a software trigger.

Lame.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: pigrew on September 17, 2017, 02:29:57 am
I'd be interested in starting to reimplement the firmware. I'm sure that it would take much more time than I'm imagining, but I think that the generator is currently greatly software-limited.

However, I don't think I have the equipment needed to be able to reverse-engineer the pin-mappings of the FPGA and MCU (without destroying my generator). There are no schematics available, are there? Or ways to get the mappings from the firmware images? I'd imagine many of the pins (like ram and the display) would be fixed by the ICs themselves.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: janekivi on September 23, 2017, 07:42:46 pm
Ok! Custom telnet password file is here as requested:
SDG2000_eevblog_23R7.zip (http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=83534199392458632882)

SDG1000X 30Mhz was hacked to 60Mhz as easily, I heard.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: jpep on October 02, 2017, 08:44:06 am
Ok! Custom telnet password file is here as requested:
SDG2000_eevblog_23R7.zip (http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=83534199392458632882)

SDG1000X 30Mhz was hacked to 60Mhz as easily, I heard.

Sorry, but this is not clear to me... Is this the latest firmware update file with telnet password removed or what?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: flash2b on October 02, 2017, 12:10:18 pm
It is the same firmware with a known password.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: TT_ZX on October 04, 2017, 11:06:16 am
Has anyone else got an RS Pro branded version of this AWG?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sz9kECUCESk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sz9kECUCESk)

Mine arrived today and the firmware has an RS Pro splash screen on boot.  Firmware is 2.01.01.21R2 and hardware is 02-01-00-31-00.  I was wondering if I could load the Siglent firmware on it without bricking it.  Telnet is password protected.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on October 04, 2017, 06:34:40 pm
Has anyone else got an RS Pro branded version of this AWG?

Mine arrived today and the firmware has an RS Pro splash screen on boot.  Firmware is 2.01.01.21R2 and hardware is 02-01-00-31-00.  I was wondering if I could load the Siglent firmware on it without bricking it.  Telnet is password protected.
Welcome to the forum.

RS are pretty cheeky for selling them at NZ $1,022.04 plus GST.
http://nz.rs-online.com/web/p/waveform-generators/1236460/ (http://nz.rs-online.com/web/p/waveform-generators/1236460/)
The core firmware will be Siglent based with only the splash screen and branding different.
What version firmware is already installed ?

Check here to see if it matches the latest from Siglent:
http://siglentamerica.com/support_software_15 (http://siglentamerica.com/support_software_15)

And BTW, without the proper configuration file that allows the Siglent firmware to be installed I wouldn't attempt loading it.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: TT_ZX on October 04, 2017, 10:47:05 pm
It looks like it is running version P21R2 | Published?2016-06-17.

Because I can't telnet in I can't poke around for the configuration file.  I read earlier in this (or another) thread that there is an internal serial port.  I may have a look at this some time.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on October 04, 2017, 11:41:58 pm
It looks like it is running version P21R2 | Published?2016-06-17.

Because I can't telnet in I can't poke around for the configuration file.  I read earlier in this (or another) thread that there is an internal serial port.  I may have a look at this some time.
The FW makes no difference to the hackability of these units AFAIK. There have been a # of FW releases since hacking was discovered near the beginning of this thread.

WRT the config file, there might be one attached with the FW releases, it's not in the internal SW but it's necessary to be installed before FW to change the unit's configuration from RS to Siglent.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: jpep on October 10, 2017, 10:58:45 am
It is the same firmware with a known password.

When you say known password you mean the old combo root user with blank password?

EDIT: Maybe root / eevblog ?

EDIT2: Yes, the login credentials are root / eevblog

It works perfect. Thanks @janekivi !!!
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Hrvoje-CRO on November 03, 2017, 02:36:26 pm
Well after weeks of searching for a good function generator finally i've decided on SDG2042X. Affordable, good for education/testing/experimenting. The best choice for all of us who cannot afford an 33522A :-+ >:D
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on December 21, 2017, 10:02:32 am
Is there a way for the generator to force an external reference (and never change to the internal reference)?

Currently, the frequency reference is switched to internal (with no indication on the GUI) when the frequency reference is turned off. It's too easy to continue using it thinking that the frequency is still locked (and yielding bad data).

Also, I'm worried that when it defaults to internal reference, it is outputting 10 MHz on it's reference output which is directly connected to another instrument's 10 MHz out. Having two instruments outputting 10 MHz into eachother can't be a good thing. I don't know if the hardware supports it, but it'd be nice to tell it to disable the 10MHz output while using the internal reference.

There are a few parameters (like reference mode, screensaver, language, number format, and beeper) that I'd really like to always have saved (irrespective of the "power-on setting"). Maybe as a work-around, there could be an option to load a particular saved configuration on startup(so the choices would be factory default, particular configuration, or last configuration)?
Did you ever get this sorted as it is listed as being fixed in the FW version 21R2 changelog.
http://www.siglenteu.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=2426&tid=15 (http://www.siglenteu.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=2426&tid=15)

Latest version is 23R7

Someone please confirm Ext 10 MHz frequency reference settings are being held after reboot.

So.....still unable to trigger both channels at the same time with a software trigger.

Lame.
I'll look at this in detail in the next few days. Sorry you've had to wait this long.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: pigrew on December 21, 2017, 03:46:21 pm
Is there a way for the generator to force an external reference (and never change to the internal reference)?

Currently, the frequency reference is switched to internal (with no indication on the GUI) when the frequency reference is turned off. It's too easy to continue using it thinking that the frequency is still locked (and yielding bad data).

Also, I'm worried that when it defaults to internal reference, it is outputting 10 MHz on it's reference output which is directly connected to another instrument's 10 MHz out. Having two instruments outputting 10 MHz into eachother can't be a good thing. I don't know if the hardware supports it, but it'd be nice to tell it to disable the 10MHz output while using the internal reference.

There are a few parameters (like reference mode, screensaver, language, number format, and beeper) that I'd really like to always have saved (irrespective of the "power-on setting"). Maybe as a work-around, there could be an option to load a particular saved configuration on startup(so the choices would be factory default, particular configuration, or last configuration)?
Did you ever get this sorted as it is listed as being fixed in the FW version 21R2 changelog.
http://www.siglenteu.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=2426&tid=15 (http://www.siglenteu.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=2426&tid=15)

Latest version is 23R7

Someone please confirm Ext 10 MHz frequency reference settings are being held after reboot.


I'm using a slightly older firmware, 23R3. It does hold the external reference setting past reboot, but only if there is an external reference connected. Without a reference, it will default to the internal reference with no indication.

This change does not fulfill my request. I would appreciate an indicator on the display to show if it's using the external reference. Also, in the external reference mode, it shouldn't default back to the internal reference; it should display an error and not be able to output any signal. The concern is that depending on the order that I turn on my reference and signal generator, different things will happen. If I turn them on the SDG before the reference, I'll have two outputs connected together (a bad thing). There seems to be no way to switch to external reference mode without connecting two outputs together.

-Nathan
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bson on December 21, 2017, 03:56:25 pm
I have 23R7 on mine and it remembers the clock source across power cycles, at least front power switch cycles; not sure if it does if you unplug mains.  However, if you ever unplug or it loses the external clock it switches to the internal - and even worse, tries to output it on the clock input.  Yes, it's totally retarded.  Mine is attached to a dedicated Spectracom tap for this purpose, don't want it to destroy my Tbolt. Fortunately the 12V offset taps are cheap on ebay, I think I paid $15 ea for them and they're bomb proof.   There is no indicator for the clock source and the only way to find out is to check the button state under Utility->System->Clock or such.  I checked only minutes ago and already forgot where it's buried.  So you can leave it running and go do something else, like fix a firmware bug or something, then come back and have no idea it decided there is no external clock and switched to the internal, outputting it on the clock input.  For this reason, if you intend to use it with an external reference I would recommend against buying it until they fix the firmware to make the setting PERMANENT.  As in, store it to EEPROM and never ever try to output anything on that input.

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on December 22, 2017, 07:51:03 am
Guys, while researching dual channel SCPI enabling for Plasmateur I found there's a new SDG Programming Guide released 2017-11-14:
http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Documents/Program_Material/SDG_ProgrammingGuide_PG_E03B.pdf (http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Documents/Program_Material/SDG_ProgrammingGuide_PG_E03B.pdf)
What commands could still be added ? And why ?

Take a mo to think how your request can be best described so the factory has no trouble understanding it.
TIA

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on December 26, 2017, 06:59:06 pm
Pigrew & bson
Ext Ref

For when no external frequency reference is available have the display inform the user only and NOT automatically connect the internal frequency reference and have the display show a new display indicator that External frequency reference is selected.

I asked for a new screen indicator displaying Int OR Ext and Reference source selection as manual only, no automatic reversion to Internal Ref.

Reply from Tech support:
We will support these two functions in future version. I can not give an accurate time now.


Plasmateur
For the both channels to be enabled simultaneously with one SCPI command:

We do not have this command. This requirement requires internal discussion of the product manager , the current can not give me result.  They need to analyze it.

Current command, we can only set the channel on one by one. The command format as below:
C1:OUTP ON;   C2:OUTP ON;

So we're definitely on their radar with a simultaneous channel enable and like you, I think it's a simple command thats inclusion has been overlooked. Fingers crossed they see it need to be added.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bson on December 26, 2017, 08:28:03 pm
By the way, for long test runs using SCPI, there's a command to query the clock source, "ROSC?", so whenever taking a measurement check this first and switch it back with "ROSC EXT" if it has flaked out.  Then check again after a measurement to make sure it didn't switch over in the middle, and repeat the measurement if it did.    So, it's kinda workable...
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on December 26, 2017, 08:45:04 pm
By the way, for long test runs using SCPI, there's a command to query the clock source, "ROSC?", so whenever taking a measurement check this first and switch it back with "ROSC EXT" if it has flaked out.  Then check again after a measurement to make sure it didn't switch over in the middle, and repeat the measurement if it did.    So, it's kinda workable...
Sure.

But the GUI can and should be improved.
Main OSD to be very clear what the REF CLK is; INTernal or EXTernal, which I think would satisfy most users needs and also disable auto revert to INTernal. (User setting EXTernal as permanent)

Not hidden in a menu.

I add these comments above to seek further refinements as what gets posted here is bought to Siglents attention so they can be clear on what you guys want and need.
Thanks all.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tv84 on December 30, 2017, 05:27:20 pm
Has anyone else got an RS Pro branded version of this AWG?

Mine arrived today and the firmware has an RS Pro splash screen on boot.  Firmware is 2.01.01.21R2 and hardware is 02-01-00-31-00.  I was wondering if I could load the Siglent firmware on it without bricking it.  Telnet is password protected.

Poking around the u-boot.img file, it seems to me that there is some commands/scripts that indicate that it's possible to USB load or tftp a "logo.bmp" and change the boot logo image without packing or changing the .ADS/.CFG update file. I think this feature also exists in other Siglent equipments.

BTW, a good lazy license generator is changing the "0123456789" in the .app file to one's S/N, upload it and let it generate your personalized official license.  ;)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: pigrew on December 30, 2017, 08:35:56 pm
By the way, for long test runs using SCPI, there's a command to query the clock source, "ROSC?", so whenever taking a measurement check this first and switch it back with "ROSC EXT" if it has flaked out.  Then check again after a measurement to make sure it didn't switch over in the middle, and repeat the measurement if it did.    So, it's kinda workable...

I add these comments above to seek further refinements as what gets posted here is bought to Siglents attention so they can be clear on what you guys want and need.
Thanks all.

I look forward to the update for locking external-reference mode, as it'll make things more convenient.

Recently, I've mostly been using the front-panel UI, so I have little "real-world" feedback on the programming interface, and these things are not currently a priority for me. I'm using firmware 2.01.01.23R3. The below questions are the things that I feel should be answered in the manual, but I don't require a response in this forum (unless you have questions about the questions themselves).

My below comments are based on the "SDG programming manual" listed under the SDG6000X section of the Siglent site. The SDG2042X manual seems to be the old revision?

Partially responding to bson, what's "normal" for other instruments is the notion of a status byte, with an ability to set a bit if errors happen. Preferably, when the reference becomes unlocked, it would add an error to the error queue, which would then propagate to the status byte, which could be polled by the controlling computer. This would detect momentary losses of reference.

The SDG2042X manual doesn't document *STB, *SRE, or any of those, so I don't know if this is usable.  The index (at the end) of the programming manual lists many of the 488 *[ABC] commands, but they are not described. The manual doesn't contain page numbers in the index, either.

Another undocumented command is how to read the error queue. If I remember correctly, it's SYSTEM:ERROR?, but I could be remembering wrong. I think that there are also calibration commands (used by the downloadable calibration scripts) which are also undocumented. Can "SYSTEM:" be abbreviated "SYS:" or "SYST":"?

Cn:WVDT seems to imply that waveform data can be uploaded via USBTMC, though it doesn't describe the format used. Is it a binary block? integers separated by commas, etc? It says on the 2000X, {Mn} is unnecessary. Exactly what does that mean? I think that the "Command syntax" shown is "format1", but "format2" isn't described?

Another little quirk of the USBTMC interface is that it does not support the "initiate_clear" command. USB488 specification says that "This USBTMC specification requires that all devices with a USBTMC interface or USBTMC subclass interface must support the INITIATE_CLEAR control endpoint request.", but it instead returns a USB error when I try to execute a clear. A clear is necessary at program startup in order to clear the I/O buffers. I'm in the habit of sending a clear every time I connect to a 488 device, but in this case I had to remove it for the SDG2042X.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on December 30, 2017, 11:07:30 pm

My below comments are based on the "SDG programming manual" listed under the SDG6000X section of the Siglent site. The SDG2042X manual seems to be the old revision?

If you're using the US site it's in evolution to this new format seen and in time all the other Siglent sites will look this way. There have been errors and omissions with the US site as we'd expect in rolling out a new website format.
The US site has always been the fastest for most of us to access and there's no login required like for the Chinese website in order to download stuff.

All that said, lately the EU site has been the easiest to get stuff from and the old format is still used like for the Chinese one:
http://www.siglenteu.com/index.aspx (http://www.siglenteu.com/index.aspx)

ALL manuals from time to time undergo revisions and it pays to check for new versions BUT it's currently just not that simple.  :-//
If we look at the Programming manual for SDG2kX and in the Documents page:
http://www.siglenteu.com/prodcut-wd.aspx?id=1115&tid=16&T=2 (http://www.siglenteu.com/prodcut-wd.aspx?id=1115&tid=16&T=2)
You'll see a version dated 2016-04-12
BUT in the Download Programming material page:
http://www.siglenteu.com/down.aspx?id=28 (http://www.siglenteu.com/down.aspx?id=28)
The new version is 2017-11-14.
This one is current and applies to all SDG series and models.

It's not an ideal situation to have to hunt out a latest version but with the websites going to be rolled into the new format like the US, now there's bound to be problems and Siglent need to watch this carefully to ensure manuals are easy to find and current.
The same goes for firmware and the 'by date' format that been used is very useful to me and I'm dismayed to see the full historical list of firmware updates is no longer listed on the US site.  :--
One only hopes that the factory web manager adds the full historical list on the new web layout


pigrew
You should update to the new version if only for the piece of mind that this offers:
1.Supported system recovery from U-disk.

If for some dumb reason your SDG2kX fails to boot someday you won't have to go to the trouble trying to restore it like Dave did when his SDG2122X froze unexpectedly recently.

Same applies to all SDG2kX owners that are holding back with FW updates because there's on 2 items in the latest FW changelog so why bother, I'll do it next time when there's greater advantage.  ::)

C'mon guys and gals, get your gear updated so it will at least perform the same as new units from the factory.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: pigrew on December 31, 2017, 12:48:51 am

One only hopes that the factory web manager adds the full historical list on the new web layout

Even worse, the USA webpage doesn't even list the version number. I have to click download and have it start downloading (EDIT: in order to see which version it is).

pigrew
You should update to the new version if only for the piece of mind that this offers:
1.Supported system recovery from U-disk.


Ok, ok... I just updated it.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on January 12, 2018, 12:03:02 pm
pigrew
You should update to the new version if only for the piece of mind that this offers:
1.Supported system recovery from U-disk.


Ok, ok... I just updated it.
Had a PM from a zero poster today with a boot frozen SDG2042X.
Luckily he reckons it has the latest FW installed so we can get some experience with U disk recovery.

I asked Siglent for it a few hrs back and they sent me a link to download it. It's a zipped 20 Mb folder that contains all the necessary files and a PDF with explicit instructions AND it only works with firmware 2.01.01.23R7 or later (not released as yet).
Anyway, the process to get this U disk recovery file is simple enough but I'm not sure it's for general publication so I shouldn't post the link until I'm told by Siglent I can, sorry. If you really need it, PM me.

So if Mvlc is watching some feedback on how the process went will be great.
TIA

Edit
He PM'ed me and the recovery was completely successful......so we know it works.  :)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: mvlc on January 13, 2018, 08:05:13 am
Suddenly my SDG2042X (firmware 23R7) kept showing the Siglent Logo after startup without any response.
I searched the internet and EEVBlog forum and found that it's possible to do "system recovery from U-disk" with the latest firmware 23R7.
I contacted tautech and Siglent.eu and they send me the recovery files.

The procedure:

1. Use an empty 4GB (<8GB) USB-stick (FAT32) and copy the received files in the root directory.
2. Insert the USB in the SDG2042X and switch the SDG2042X on.
3. Wait about 2 minutes, every now and then the USB-LED blinks.
4. The GUI appears again. :)

Thanks to tautech and Siglent.eu for the good support.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: smarteebit on January 13, 2018, 01:12:35 pm

I asked Siglent for it a few hrs back and they sent me a link to download it. It's a zipped 20 Mb folder that contains all the necessary files and a PDF with explicit instructions AND it only works with firmware 2.01.01.23R7 or later (not released as yet).


Is the firmware 2.01.01.23R7 released? Does that mean if I want my SDG2042X supporting recover from a U disk, I must update its firmware to 2.01.01.23R7 or later? Thx.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: mvlc on January 13, 2018, 03:49:56 pm
Firmware 2.01.01.23R7 is available on the Siglent website.
http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDG2000X_2.01.01.23R7.zip (http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDG2000X_2.01.01.23R7.zip)
Yes, this latest version 2.01.01.23R7 must be on the device to enable USB system recovery.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: jasonbrent on February 10, 2018, 11:31:40 pm
My 42X just arrived.... and is now a 120Mhz version, thank you... for those of you on MacOS, how are you interacting with the siglent SCPI over the LAN? I'm still going through the thread, but hoping someone has a pointer. Like someone else, I expected to just be able to telnet to a port and send commands like on the rigol.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: amham on February 13, 2018, 09:44:00 pm
Does this hack still work for current late 2017 production of the SDG2042X?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bsas on February 18, 2018, 02:08:59 am
Does this hack still work for current late 2017 production of the SDG2042X?

Same question, but now I am on 2018 :)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Safar on February 18, 2018, 09:45:28 am
Does this hack still work for current late 2017 production of the SDG2042X?

Same question, but now I am on 2018 :)
I think you understand that this hack depends of FW but not HW. If FW version still the same as described in all GEN topics then no problem. If new one then it need to make some test. Anyway you can download modified FW with known telnet account and try to flash gen and then makes some file  changes. Hope that Siglent will leave all structures on same place in new versions.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: TechnoTroll on February 27, 2018, 11:46:12 pm
So, if I buy a new SDG2042X and download the latest 23R7 firmware that has the revised telnet password, what are the steps to get 120 MHz please?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: chipss on February 28, 2018, 03:08:47 pm
About to find out, have one on order.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Qw3rtzuiop on February 28, 2018, 03:16:52 pm
Do a firmware downgrade to and follow the instructions:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/353/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/353/)
The firmware 17R5 should be the one to downgrade too.
http://www.siglent.com/ENs/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=1371&tid=15 (http://www.siglent.com/ENs/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=1371&tid=15)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: TechnoTroll on February 28, 2018, 07:13:54 pm
Do a firmware downgrade to and follow the instructions:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/353/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/353/)
The firmware 17R5 should be the one to downgrade too.
http://www.siglent.com/ENs/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=1371&tid=15 (http://www.siglent.com/ENs/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=1371&tid=15)
With janekivi's 23R7 version, if I know the telnet password, can't I just find and delete the bandwidth_update_license line as shown in this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HcggjLN1LE)?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: CustomEngineerer on February 28, 2018, 11:29:12 pm
Yes. Which is why we say there are 2 ways to accomplish the liberation.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: BillB on February 28, 2018, 11:34:54 pm
SDG1000X 30Mhz was hacked to 60Mhz as easily, I heard.

I must be a little slow on the uptake, as I'm not finding much when searching for the SDG1032X solution.  :-/O

I have one that desperately wants to become an SDG1062X.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: TechnoTroll on March 01, 2018, 12:00:29 pm
Yes. Which is why we say there are 2 ways to accomplish the liberation.
Thanks, that's what I thought :D
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: ian.ameline on March 03, 2018, 12:01:41 am
I'm going to buy one of these -- looks great.

From the teardown pics and various posts here, it seeps that the main CPU (600Mhz Coretex ARM A8) has 128Meg of DDR3 ram - on one Micron DDR3 memory package. But interestingly, the FPGA has *2* of those DDR3 chips -- for 256Meg total. This is way more than the storage needed for 2 x 8M point x 16bit sample waveforms. In fact it is exactly 16 times as much as needed for 2 such waveforms.

Ram is not 0 cost -- I wonder why they have that much ram for the FPGA. Any speculation? 2 ram chips for 2x bandwidth, and same chips to reduce number of different parts on the BOM? Each of those RAM chips can reach 1.6GByte/sec bandwidth, peak, and somewhat less sustained - with 2 of them, that gives probably around 2.6 Gig/second - That's around 1.3MSamples/second total. If the actual sample rate per channel feeding in is 1/4 the sample rate (interpolated), x 2 channels, that would fit comfortably in the bandwidth of those 2 chips.

(It's fairly obvious that they use the same CPU board in many different instruments, so having it standardized is helpful - it has 128Meg of Ram and 256Meg of flash -- more than is needed for this signal generator)

There was well over 128Meg free on the flash, and well over 64Meg of Ram free after the device had booted.

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Plasmateur on March 03, 2018, 06:13:23 am
Did Siglent ever figure out how to get both channels to trigger from a software trigger?

I must have been asking this question for over a year now.

Also, is there any way to do a phase locked pulsed sweep with this?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on March 03, 2018, 06:57:37 am
Did Siglent ever figure out how to get both channels to trigger from a software trigger?

I must have been asking this question for over a year now.

Also, is there any way to do a phase locked pulsed sweep with this?
From a Feb FW changelog for SDG5000 models:
http://siglenteu.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=4059&tid=15 (http://siglenteu.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=4059&tid=15)
d.Manual trigger cannot trigger both channels simultaneously

Not actually what you've asked for but since the current FW is from 2017-09-07 it should be getting close to being added. I've pointed them a couple of times to your request.
Next week I'll ask now things are progressing.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Performa01 on March 03, 2018, 07:43:17 am
Also, is there any way to do a phase locked pulsed sweep with this?

Just curious: What is a "pulsed sweep"? And what should it be phase-locked with?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bson on March 03, 2018, 11:54:46 pm
Ram is not 0 cost -- I wonder why they have that much ram for the FPGA. Any speculation?
If I were to speculate I'd guess all waveforms are generated internally in RAM, then played back.

You can also upload waveforms and refer to them by name later, but I don't know if those are kept in RAM.  It could be it persists them to flash but reloads all waveforms into RAM on startup and expects to find them there during operation, rather than when requested.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: ian.ameline on March 05, 2018, 03:21:37 am
Ram is not 0 cost -- I wonder why they have that much ram for the FPGA. Any speculation?
If I were to speculate I'd guess all waveforms are generated internally in RAM, then played back.

You can also upload waveforms and refer to them by name later, but I don't know if those are kept in RAM.  It could be it persists them to flash but reloads all waveforms into RAM on startup and expects to find them there during operation, rather than when requested.

Logged in as root while it's running -- free memory is around 85Meg while generating 2 different signals with many harmonics.

The provided arbitrary waveforms are only 32k each (16k samples at 2 bytes/per sample)

The FPGA has 256Meg -- that's where the waveforms will reside while being generated.

The UI app is only using a few percent of the cpu -- even while changing waveforms.

It looks like the CPU board is overkill for this application.

Here is the boot text;

<5>[    0.000000] Linux version 3.2.0-svn6268 (ding@ding-desktop) (gcc version 4.5.3 20110311 (prerelease) (GCC) ) #70 Fri Jul 21 11:47:50 ULAST 2017
<1>[    0.000000] CPU: ARMv7 Processor [413fc082] revision 2 (ARMv7), cr=10c53c7d
<1>[    0.000000] CPU: PIPT / VIPT nonaliasing data cache, VIPT aliasing instruction cache
<1>[    0.000000] Machine: am335xevm
<4>[    0.000000] Ignoring tag cmdline (using the default kernel command line)
<1>[    0.000000] Memory policy: ECC disabled, Data cache writeback
<7>[    0.000000] On node 0 totalpages: 32768
<7>[    0.000000] free_area_init_node: node 0, pgdat c05b7068, node_mem_map c0602000
<7>[    0.000000]   Normal zone: 256 pages used for memmap
<7>[    0.000000]   Normal zone: 0 pages reserved
<7>[    0.000000]   Normal zone: 32512 pages, LIFO batch:7
<6>[    0.000000] AM335X ES1.0 (neon )
<7>[    0.000000] pcpu-alloc: s0 r0 d32768 u32768 alloc=1*32768
<7>[    0.000000] pcpu-alloc:
<1>[    0.000000] Built 1 zonelists in Zone order, mobility grouping on.  Total pages: 32512
<5>[    0.000000] Kernel command line: console=ttyO0,115200n8 root=ubi0:rootfs ro ubi.mtd=7,2048 rootfstype=ubifs rootwait=1t ip=none
<6>[    0.000000] PID hash table entries: 512 (order: -1, 2048 bytes)
<6>[    0.000000] Dentry cache hash table entries: 16384 (order: 4, 65536 bytes)
<6>[    0.000000] Inode-cache hash table entries: 8192 (order: 3, 32768 bytes)
<6>[    0.000000] Memory: 128MB = 128MB total
<5>[    0.000000] Memory: 123756k/123756k available, 7316k reserved, 0K highmem
<5>[    0.000000] Virtual kernel memory layout:
<5>[    0.000000]     vector  : 0xffff0000 - 0xffff1000   (   4 kB)
<5>[    0.000000]     fixmap  : 0xfff00000 - 0xfffe0000   ( 896 kB)
<5>[    0.000000]     vmalloc : 0xc8800000 - 0xff000000   ( 872 MB)
<5>[    0.000000]     lowmem  : 0xc0000000 - 0xc8000000   ( 128 MB)
<5>[    0.000000]     modules : 0xbf000000 - 0xc0000000   (  16 MB)
<5>[    0.000000]       .text : 0xc0008000 - 0xc0529364   (5253 kB)
<5>[    0.000000]       .init : 0xc052a000 - 0xc056c000   ( 264 kB)
<5>[    0.000000]       .data : 0xc056c000 - 0xc05bd350   ( 325 kB)
<5>[    0.000000]        .bss : 0xc05bd374 - 0xc060103c   ( 272 kB)
<6>[    0.000000] NR_IRQS:396
<6>[    0.000000] IRQ: Found an INTC at 0xfa200000 (revision 5.0) with 128 interrupts
<6>[    0.000000] Total of 128 interrupts on 1 active controller
<6>[    0.000000] OMAP clockevent source: GPTIMER2 at 25000000 Hz
<4>[    0.000000] omap_dm_timer_switch_src: Switching to HW default clocksource(sys_clkin_ck) for timer1, this may impact timekeeping in low power state
<6>[    0.000000] OMAP clocksource: GPTIMER1 at 25000000 Hz
<6>[    0.000000] sched_clock: 32 bits at 25MHz, resolution 40ns, wraps every 171798ms
<6>[    0.000000] Console: colour dummy device 80x30
<6>[    0.000209] Calibrating delay loop... 718.02 BogoMIPS (lpj=3590144)
<6>[    0.057098] pid_max: default: 32768 minimum: 301
<6>[    0.057279] Mount-cache hash table entries: 512
<6>[    0.057665] CPU: Testing write buffer coherency: ok
<6>[    0.057741] ftrace: allocating 14556 entries in 43 pages
<4>[    0.109666] omap_hwmod: gfx: failed to hardreset
<4>[    0.125747] omap_hwmod: pruss: failed to hardreset
<6>[    0.126911] print_constraints: dummy:
<6>[    0.127220] NET: Registered protocol family 16
<6>[    0.129423] OMAP GPIO hardware version 0.1
<1>[    0.131682] am335x_evm_init()++
<6>[    0.131906] omap_mux_init: Add partition: #1: core, flags: 0
<1>[    0.134052] am335x_evm_i2c_init()++
<4>[    0.134295]  omap_i2c.1: alias fck already exists
<1>[    0.134502] am335x_evm_i2c_init()--
<1>[    0.134629] da8xx_panel_power_ctrl()++
<1>[    0.134668] back light switch = 1
<1>[    0.134690] da8xx_panel_power_ctrl()--
<1>[    0.135010] am335x_evm_init()--
<4>[    0.135304]  omap2_mcspi.1: alias fck already exists
<4>[    0.135525]  omap2_mcspi.2: alias fck already exists
<4>[    0.135792]  edma.0: alias fck already exists
<4>[    0.135814]  edma.0: alias fck already exists
<4>[    0.135833]  edma.0: alias fck already exists
<6>[    0.152750] bio: create slab <bio-0> at 0
<5>[    0.154907] SCSI subsystem initialized
<6>[    0.156705] usbcore: registered new interface driver usbfs
<6>[    0.157034] usbcore: registered new interface driver hub
<6>[    0.157293] usbcore: registered new device driver usb
<6>[    0.157906] omap_i2c omap_i2c.1: bus 1 rev2.4.0 at 100 kHz
<6>[    0.159687] tps65910 1-002d: JTAGREVNUM 0x0
<6>[    0.162075] print_constraints: VRTC:
<6>[    0.163517] print_constraints: VIO: at 1500 mV
<6>[    0.165823] print_constraints: VDD1: 600 <--> 1500 mV at 1262 mV normal
<6>[    0.168126] print_constraints: VDD2: 600 <--> 1500 mV at 1137 mV normal
<6>[    0.169155] print_constraints: VDD3: 5000 mV
<6>[    0.170565] print_constraints: VDIG1: at 1800 mV
<6>[    0.171980] print_constraints: VDIG2: at 1800 mV
<6>[    0.173394] print_constraints: VPLL: at 1800 mV
<6>[    0.174801] print_constraints: VDAC: at 1800 mV
<6>[    0.176228] print_constraints: VAUX1: at 1800 mV
<6>[    0.177636] print_constraints: VAUX2: at 3300 mV
<6>[    0.179069] print_constraints: VAUX33: at 3300 mV
<6>[    0.180482] print_constraints: VMMC: at 3300 mV
<4>[    0.180974] tps65910 1-002d: No interrupt support, no core IRQ
<6>[    0.182607] cfg80211: Calling CRDA to update world regulatory domain
<6>[    0.183254] Switching to clocksource gp timer
<6>[    0.204259] NET: Registered protocol family 2
<6>[    0.204472] IP route cache hash table entries: 1024 (order: 0, 4096 bytes)
<6>[    0.204764] TCP established hash table entries: 4096 (order: 3, 32768 bytes)
<6>[    0.204856] TCP bind hash table entries: 4096 (order: 2, 16384 bytes)
<6>[    0.204912] TCP: Hash tables configured (established 4096 bind 4096)
<6>[    0.204925] TCP reno registered
<6>[    0.204938] UDP hash table entries: 256 (order: 0, 4096 bytes)
<6>[    0.204962] UDP-Lite hash table entries: 256 (order: 0, 4096 bytes)
<6>[    0.205135] NET: Registered protocol family 1
<6>[    0.205418] RPC: Registered named UNIX socket transport module.
<6>[    0.205431] RPC: Registered udp transport module.
<6>[    0.205441] RPC: Registered tcp transport module.
<6>[    0.205450] RPC: Registered tcp NFSv4.1 backchannel transport module.
<3>[    0.206177] cpuidle-am33xx cpuidle-am33xx.0: failed to register driver
<6>[    0.213550] Installing knfsd (copyright (C) 1996 okir@monad.swb.de).
<6>[    0.213891] msgmni has been set to 241
<6>[    0.214558] io scheduler noop registered
<6>[    0.214573] io scheduler deadline registered
<6>[    0.214654] io scheduler cfq registered (default)
<6>[    0.215792] omap_uart.0: ttyO0 at MMIO 0x44e09000 (irq = 72) is a OMAP UART0
<6>[    0.766297] console [ttyO0] enabled
<6>[    0.770438] omap_uart.1: ttyO1 at MMIO 0x48022000 (irq = 73) is a OMAP UART1
<6>[    0.778228] omap_uart.2: ttyO2 at MMIO 0x48024000 (irq = 74) is a OMAP UART2
<6>[    0.785977] omap_uart.3: ttyO3 at MMIO 0x481a6000 (irq = 44) is a OMAP UART3
<6>[    0.793704] omap_uart.4: ttyO4 at MMIO 0x481a8000 (irq = 45) is a OMAP UART4
<6>[    0.801387] omap_uart.5: ttyO5 at MMIO 0x481aa000 (irq = 46) is a OMAP UART5
<6>[    0.818601] brd: module loaded
<6>[    0.826897] loop: module loaded
<6>[    0.830261] at24 1-0051: 32768 byte 24c256 EEPROM, writable, 64 bytes/write
<6>[    0.893296] No daughter card found
<6>[    0.896889] at24 1-0050: 32768 byte 24c256 EEPROM, writable, 64 bytes/write
<1>[    0.904159] am335x_evm_setup()++
<4>[    0.963295] AM335X: EVM Config read fail: -110
<6>[    0.967924] No board detected, using GPBoard 1.1A as default
<6>[    0.973972] The board is general purpose EVM in profile 0
<3>[    0.979597] Found invalid GP EVM revision, falling back to Rev1.1A
<1>[    0.986050] -------siglent_fpga_init++
<1>[    0.990055] -------siglent_fpga_init--
<4>[    0.994756]  da8xx_lcdc.0: alias fck already exists
<1>[    1.000284] evm_nand_init()++
<6>[    1.004003] omap-gpmc omap-gpmc: GPMC revision 6.0
<6>[    1.009005] Registering NAND on CS0
<1>[    1.013236] evm_nand_init()--
<1>[    1.017764] haptics_init()++
<1>[    1.021746] haptics_init()--
<1>[    1.024794] out_triger_gpio_init()++
<1>[    1.028557] out_triger_gpio_init()--
<1>[    1.032748] am335x_evm_setup()--
<3>[    1.037674] mtdoops: mtd device (mtddev=name/number) must be supplied
<6>[    1.044801] omap2-nand driver initializing
<6>[    1.049388] ONFI flash detected
<6>[    1.052791] ONFI param page 0 valid
<6>[    1.056465] NAND device: Manufacturer ID: 0x2c, Chip ID: 0xda (Micron MT29F2G08ABAEAWP)
<5>[    1.065152] Creating 12 MTD partitions on "omap2-nand.0":
<5>[    1.070796] 0x000000000000-0x000000020000 : "SPL"
<5>[    1.077162] 0x000000020000-0x000000040000 : "SPL.backup1"
<5>[    1.084113] 0x000000040000-0x000000060000 : "SPL.backup2"
<5>[    1.091002] 0x000000060000-0x000000080000 : "SPL.backup3"
<5>[    1.097969] 0x000000080000-0x000000260000 : "U-Boot"
<5>[    1.105199] 0x000000260000-0x000000280000 : "U-Boot Env"
<5>[    1.112014] 0x000000280000-0x000000580000 : "Manufacturedata"
<5>[    1.120550] 0x000000580000-0x000003080000 : "rootfs"
<5>[    1.144892] 0x000003080000-0x000003680000 : "kerneldata"
<5>[    1.154142] 0x000003680000-0x000006880000 : "firmdata0"
<5>[    1.181575] 0x000006880000-0x000009a80000 : "firmdata1"
<5>[    1.208986] 0x000009a80000-0x000010000000 : "datafs"
<6>[    1.257741] OneNAND driver initializing
<5>[    1.262444] UBI: attaching mtd7 to ubi0
<5>[    1.266497] UBI: physical eraseblock size:   131072 bytes (128 KiB)
<5>[    1.273026] UBI: logical eraseblock size:    126976 bytes
<5>[    1.278661] UBI: smallest flash I/O unit:    2048
<5>[    1.283570] UBI: sub-page size:              512
<5>[    1.288379] UBI: VID header offset:          2048 (aligned 2048)
<5>[    1.294646] UBI: data offset:                4096
<5>[    1.709829] UBI: max. sequence number:       160
<4>[    1.728356] UBI warning: print_rsvd_warning: cannot reserve enough PEBs for bad PEB handling, reserved 9, need 12
<5>[    1.740044] UBI: attached mtd7 to ubi0
<5>[    1.743992] UBI: MTD device name:            "rootfs"
<5>[    1.749254] UBI: MTD device size:            43 MiB
<5>[    1.754346] UBI: number of good PEBs:        344
<5>[    1.759153] UBI: number of bad PEBs:         0
<5>[    1.763789] UBI: number of corrupted PEBs:   0
<5>[    1.768417] UBI: max. allowed volumes:       128
<5>[    1.773224] UBI: wear-leveling threshold:    4096
<5>[    1.778132] UBI: number of internal volumes: 1
<5>[    1.782758] UBI: number of user volumes:     1
<5>[    1.787393] UBI: available PEBs:             0
<5>[    1.792020] UBI: total number of reserved PEBs: 344
<5>[    1.797109] UBI: number of PEBs reserved for bad PEB handling: 9
<5>[    1.803375] UBI: max/mean erase counter: 2/0
<5>[    1.807821] UBI: image sequence number:  769161752
<5>[    1.812881] UBI: background thread "ubi_bgt0d" started, PID 485
<6>[    1.863341] davinci_mdio davinci_mdio.0: davinci mdio revision 1.6
<6>[    1.869792] davinci_mdio davinci_mdio.0: detected phy mask bfffffff
<1>[    1.876557] bus->id = 0, addr= 30
<1>[    1.880211] 11--
<6>[    1.882341] davinci_mdio.0: probed
<6>[    1.885927] davinci_mdio davinci_mdio.0: phy[30]: device 0:1e, driver unknown
<6>[    1.893749] usbcore: registered new interface driver rt2800usb
<6>[    1.899829] Initializing USB Mass Storage driver...
<6>[    1.905123] usbcore: registered new interface driver usb-storage
<6>[    1.911383] USB Mass Storage support registered.
<6>[    1.916664] mousedev: PS/2 mouse device common for all mice
<6>[    1.922474] i2c /dev entries driver
<6>[    1.927250] OMAP Watchdog Timer Rev 0x01: initial timeout 60 sec
<7>[    1.934071] Registered led device: omap3evm::leda
<6>[    1.934311] TCP cubic registered
<6>[    1.937680] NET: Registered protocol family 17
<6>[    1.942444] NET: Registered protocol family 33
<6>[    1.947131] lib80211: common routines for IEEE802.11 drivers
<7>[    1.953030] lib80211_crypt: registered algorithm 'NULL'
<7>[    1.953041] lib80211_crypt: registered algorithm 'WEP'
<7>[    1.953052] lib80211_crypt: registered algorithm 'CCMP'
<7>[    1.953062] lib80211_crypt: registered algorithm 'TKIP'
<5>[    1.953073] Registering the dns_resolver key type
<6>[    1.958073] VFP support v0.3: implementor 41 architecture 3 part 30 variant c rev 3
<6>[    1.966077] ThumbEE CPU extension supported.
<4>[    1.970586] mux: Failed to setup hwmod io irq -22
<6>[    1.976103] Power Management for AM33XX family
<6>[    1.980790] clock: disabling unused clocks to save power
<6>[    1.987994] Detected MACID=c8:fd:19:d1:4f:32
<5>[    2.067310] UBIFS: recovery needed
<5>[    2.275817] UBIFS: recovery deferred
<5>[    2.279564] UBIFS: mounted UBI device 0, volume 0, name "rootfs"
<5>[    2.285837] UBIFS: mounted read-only
<5>[    2.289563] UBIFS: file system size:   40632320 bytes (39680 KiB, 38 MiB, 320 LEBs)
<5>[    2.297556] UBIFS: journal size:       9023488 bytes (8812 KiB, 8 MiB, 72 LEBs)
<5>[    2.305183] UBIFS: media format:       w4/r0 (latest is w4/r0)
<5>[    2.311259] UBIFS: default compressor: lzo
<5>[    2.315537] UBIFS: reserved for root:  0 bytes (0 KiB)
<6>[    2.322725] VFS: Mounted root (ubifs filesystem) readonly on device 0:12.
<6>[    2.330223] Freeing init memory: 264K
<5>[    4.120378] UBI: attaching mtd11 to ubi1
<5>[    4.124536] UBI: physical eraseblock size:   131072 bytes (128 KiB)
<5>[    4.131066] UBI: logical eraseblock size:    126976 bytes
<5>[    4.136701] UBI: smallest flash I/O unit:    2048
<5>[    4.141599] UBI: sub-page size:              512
<5>[    4.146418] UBI: VID header offset:          2048 (aligned 2048)
<5>[    4.152675] UBI: data offset:                4096
<5>[    5.125439] UBI: max. sequence number:       580
<5>[    5.153424] UBI: attached mtd11 to ubi1
<5>[    5.157440] UBI: MTD device name:            "datafs"
<5>[    5.162702] UBI: MTD device size:            101 MiB
<5>[    5.167889] UBI: number of good PEBs:        812
<5>[    5.172697] UBI: number of bad PEBs:         0
<5>[    5.177334] UBI: number of corrupted PEBs:   0
<5>[    5.181962] UBI: max. allowed volumes:       128
<5>[    5.186779] UBI: wear-leveling threshold:    4096
<5>[    5.191678] UBI: number of internal volumes: 1
<5>[    5.196315] UBI: number of user volumes:     1
<5>[    5.200941] UBI: available PEBs:             0
<5>[    5.205578] UBI: total number of reserved PEBs: 812
<5>[    5.210657] UBI: number of PEBs reserved for bad PEB handling: 32
<5>[    5.217015] UBI: max/mean erase counter: 3/1
<5>[    5.221461] UBI: image sequence number:  264443814
<5>[    5.226480] UBI: background thread "ubi_bgt1d" started, PID 558
<5>[    5.340002] UBIFS: recovery needed
<5>[    5.511354] UBIFS: recovery completed
<5>[    5.515220] UBIFS: mounted UBI device 1, volume 0, name "rootfs"
<5>[    5.521483] UBIFS: file system size:   97136640 bytes (94860 KiB, 92 MiB, 765 LEBs)
<5>[    5.529477] UBIFS: journal size:       9023488 bytes (8812 KiB, 8 MiB, 72 LEBs)
<5>[    5.537105] UBIFS: media format:       w4/r0 (latest is w4/r0)
<5>[    5.543182] UBIFS: default compressor: lzo
<5>[    5.547456] UBIFS: reserved for root:  0 bytes (0 KiB)
<5>[    5.617689] UBI: attaching mtd9 to ubi2
<5>[    5.621712] UBI: physical eraseblock size:   131072 bytes (128 KiB)
<5>[    5.628309] UBI: logical eraseblock size:    126976 bytes
<5>[    5.633946] UBI: smallest flash I/O unit:    2048
<5>[    5.638845] UBI: sub-page size:              512
<5>[    5.643665] UBI: VID header offset:          2048 (aligned 2048)
<5>[    5.649922] UBI: data offset:                4096
<5>[    6.131575] UBI: max. sequence number:       25
<5>[    6.159784] UBI: attached mtd9 to ubi2
<5>[    6.163773] UBI: MTD device name:            "firmdata0"
<5>[    6.169308] UBI: MTD device size:            50 MiB
<5>[    6.174401] UBI: number of good PEBs:        400
<5>[    6.179208] UBI: number of bad PEBs:         0
<5>[    6.183846] UBI: number of corrupted PEBs:   0
<5>[    6.188473] UBI: max. allowed volumes:       128
<5>[    6.193290] UBI: wear-leveling threshold:    4096
<5>[    6.198188] UBI: number of internal volumes: 1
<5>[    6.202814] UBI: number of user volumes:     1
<5>[    6.207450] UBI: available PEBs:             0
<5>[    6.212077] UBI: total number of reserved PEBs: 400
<5>[    6.217166] UBI: number of PEBs reserved for bad PEB handling: 16
<5>[    6.223523] UBI: max/mean erase counter: 2/1
<5>[    6.227970] UBI: image sequence number:  879522226
<5>[    6.232982] UBI: background thread "ubi_bgt2d" started, PID 583
<5>[    6.335449] UBIFS: recovery needed
<5>[    6.438424] UBIFS: recovery deferred
<5>[    6.442166] UBIFS: mounted UBI device 2, volume 0, name "firmdata0"
<5>[    6.448721] UBIFS: mounted read-only
<5>[    6.452449] UBIFS: file system size:   46854144 bytes (45756 KiB, 44 MiB, 369 LEBs)
<5>[    6.460443] UBIFS: journal size:       9023488 bytes (8812 KiB, 8 MiB, 72 LEBs)
<5>[    6.468071] UBIFS: media format:       w4/r0 (latest is w4/r0)
<5>[    6.474156] UBIFS: default compressor: lzo
<5>[    6.478422] UBIFS: reserved for root:  0 bytes (0 KiB)
<4>[    7.973305] sched: RT throttling activated
<3>[    9.265308]
<3>[    9.265318] CPSW phy found : id is : 0x20005c90
<3>[    9.272326] PHY 0:01 not found
<1>[    9.444391] gpib_usb_init
<6>[    9.461740] usbcore: registered new interface driver usb-gpib
<6>[   11.264006] PHY: 0:1e - Link is Up - 100/Full
<6>[   17.844018] musb-hdrc: version 6.0, ?dma?, otg (peripheral+host)
<6>[   17.917193] musb-ti81xx musb-ti81xx: musb0, board_mode=0x13, plat_mode=0x3
<6>[   17.949020] musb-hdrc musb-hdrc.0: dma type: pio
<7>[   17.968437] musb-hdrc: ConfigData=0xde (UTMI-8, dyn FIFOs, bulk combine, bulk split, HB-ISO Rx, HB-ISO Tx, SoftConn)
<7>[   17.968469] musb-hdrc: MHDRC RTL version 2.0
<7>[   17.968480] musb-hdrc: setup fifo_mode 4
<7>[   17.968512] musb-hdrc: 28/31 max ep, 16384/16384 memory
<6>[   17.974834] musb-hdrc musb-hdrc.0: USB OTG mode controller at c8aa2000 using PIO, IRQ 18
<6>[   18.002175] musb-ti81xx musb-ti81xx: musb1, board_mode=0x13, plat_mode=0x1
<6>[   18.013720] musb-hdrc musb-hdrc.1: dma type: pio
<7>[   18.032897] musb-hdrc: ConfigData=0xde (UTMI-8, dyn FIFOs, bulk combine, bulk split, HB-ISO Rx, HB-ISO Tx, SoftConn)
<7>[   18.032929] musb-hdrc: MHDRC RTL version 2.0
<7>[   18.032941] musb-hdrc: setup fifo_mode 4
<7>[   18.032972] musb-hdrc: 28/31 max ep, 16384/16384 memory
<6>[   18.033027] musb-hdrc musb-hdrc.1: MUSB HDRC host driver
<6>[   18.038804] musb-hdrc musb-hdrc.1: new USB bus registered, assigned bus number 1
<6>[   18.046663] usb usb1: New USB device found, idVendor=1d6b, idProduct=0002
<6>[   18.053761] usb usb1: New USB device strings: Mfr=3, Product=2, SerialNumber=1
<6>[   18.061306] usb usb1: Product: MUSB HDRC host driver
<6>[   18.066499] usb usb1: Manufacturer: Linux 3.2.0-svn6268 musb-hcd
<6>[   18.072758] usb usb1: SerialNumber: musb-hdrc.1
<6>[   18.094532] hub 1-0:1.0: USB hub found
<6>[   18.098518] hub 1-0:1.0: 1 port detected
<6>[   18.113447] musb-hdrc musb-hdrc.1: USB Host mode controller at c8aa4800 using PIO, IRQ 19
<6>[   18.343989] da8xx_lcdc da8xx_lcdc.0: GLCD: Found HANSTAR_HSD070IDW1_A panel
<1>[   19.189894] usbtmc_bind+++
<6>[   19.200266] SIGLENT_DEV: SIGLENT_DEV, version: 2007 OCT 06
<6>[   19.206089] musb-hdrc musb-hdrc.0: MUSB HDRC host driver
<6>[   19.211669] musb-hdrc musb-hdrc.0: new USB bus registered, assigned bus number 2
<6>[   19.219528] usb usb2: New USB device found, idVendor=1d6b, idProduct=0002
<6>[   19.226626] usb usb2: New USB device strings: Mfr=3, Product=2, SerialNumber=1
<6>[   19.234170] usb usb2: Product: MUSB HDRC host driver
<6>[   19.239346] usb usb2: Manufacturer: Linux 3.2.0-svn6268 musb-hcd
<6>[   19.245615] usb usb2: SerialNumber: musb-hdrc.0
<6>[   19.271157] hub 2-0:1.0: USB hub found
<6>[   19.275165] hub 2-0:1.0: 1 port detected
<1>[   19.293033] usbtmc_open()++
<1>[   19.296030] dev->usbtmc_cdev_open ret = 0
<1>[   19.300205] ret = 0
<1>[   19.302386] usbtmc_open--
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Dwaine on March 05, 2018, 07:35:26 am
Fantastic.  That means Siglent can add graphing to the frequency counter.  It would be nice to use that colour screen. 
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: ian.ameline on March 05, 2018, 02:47:16 pm
Fantastic.  That means Siglent can add graphing to the frequency counter.  It would be nice to use that colour screen.

I don't think there are any cpu, RAM, or storage  limitations preventing that. It is just a matter of designing the UI and writing the code.
(A non trivial amount of work -- ie not days, but weeks) Logging the frequency  over a considerable time should also not pose any insurmountable challenges either. (File could be written to USB key or internal storage.

Internal storage is 256Meg of single level (SLC) flash. (as opposed to MLC) SLC has far better write endurance.

Sifting through the binary code, it looks like the main app is written in C++x11 (The binary for that is around 8.5 megabytes). The binary file for the FPGA is 1.8 megabytes.

There also appears some parts of nfs running -- I'll see if I can mount the internal storage as an nfs share from another computer.





Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: ian.ameline on March 05, 2018, 02:51:03 pm
Here is the list of running processes; (in order of CPU usage - running top)

Mem: 42460K used, 81560K free, 0K shrd, 0K buff, 15020K cached
CPU:   0% usr  30% sys   0% nic  69% idle   0% io   0% irq   0% sirq
Load average: 0.00 0.01 0.05 1/64 825
  PID  PPID USER     STAT   VSZ %MEM %CPU COMMAND
  612     2 root     RW       0   0%  27% [kworker/u:2]
  533     1 root     S     151m 125%   4% ./sdg2000.app
  825   778 root     R     2844   2%   0% top
  597     2 root     SW       0   0%   0% [kworker/0:2]
  536     1 root     S     2844   2%   0% telnetd
  778   536 root     S     2844   2%   0% -sh
  535     1 root     S     2844   2%   0% -/bin/sh
    1     0 root     S     2668   2%   0% init       
  537     1 1        S     1788   1%   0% portmap
    3     2 root     SW       0   0%   0% [ksoftirqd/0]
    5     2 root     SW       0   0%   0% [kworker/u:0]
  558     2 root     SW       0   0%   0% [ubi_bgt1d]
  165     2 root     SW       0   0%   0% [sync_supers]
    2     0 root     SW       0   0%   0% [kthreadd]
    6     2 root     SW<      0   0%   0% [khelper]
  167     2 root     SW       0   0%   0% [bdi-default]
  169     2 root     SW<      0   0%   0% [kblockd]
  181     2 root     SW<      0   0%   0% [omap2_mcspi]
  192     2 root     SW       0   0%   0% [khubd]
  225     2 root     SW<      0   0%   0% [cfg80211]
  226     2 root     SW       0   0%   0% [kworker/0:1]
  309     2 root     SW<      0   0%   0% [rpciod]
  320     2 root     SW       0   0%   0% [kswapd0]
  321     2 root     SW       0   0%   0% [fsnotify_mark]
  322     2 root     SW<      0   0%   0% [nfsiod]
  323     2 root     SW<      0   0%   0% [crypto]
  333     2 root     SW<      0   0%   0% [OMAP UART0]
  335     2 root     SW<      0   0%   0% [OMAP UART1]
  337     2 root     SW<      0   0%   0% [OMAP UART2]
  339     2 root     SW<      0   0%   0% [OMAP UART3]
  341     2 root     SW<      0   0%   0% [OMAP UART4]
  343     2 root     SW<      0   0%   0% [OMAP UART5]
  421     2 root     SW       0   0%   0% [mtdblock0]
  426     2 root     SW       0   0%   0% [mtdblock1]
  431     2 root     SW       0   0%   0% [mtdblock2]
  436     2 root     SW       0   0%   0% [mtdblock3]
  441     2 root     SW       0   0%   0% [mtdblock4]
  446     2 root     SW       0   0%   0% [mtdblock5]
  451     2 root     SW       0   0%   0% [mtdblock6]
  456     2 root     SW       0   0%   0% [mtdblock7]
  461     2 root     SW       0   0%   0% [mtdblock8]
  466     2 root     SW       0   0%   0% [mtdblock9]
  471     2 root     SW       0   0%   0% [mtdblock10]
  476     2 root     SW       0   0%   0% [mtdblock11]
  485     2 root     SW       0   0%   0% [ubi_bgt0d]
  564     2 root     SW       0   0%   0% [ubifs_bgt1_0]
  583     2 root     SW       0   0%   0% [ubi_bgt2d]
  704     2 root     SW<      0   0%   0% [musb-hdrc.0]
  710     2 root     SW<      0   0%   0% [musb-hdrc.1]
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: ian.ameline on March 05, 2018, 03:13:28 pm
Anyone poking around in their own SDG, I recommend being *very* careful. There are a few scripts that appear designed to install new versions of the firmware from USB or other devices - but they are not very well written scripts -- they completely erase the nand *before* checking if there is a good replacement image available. It appears easy to brick your device if you are not careful. (I suspect typing "reboot" from the command line while there is a USB key present might be enough to do it - I don't want to try to test this theory.)

Fortunately for us hackers, there are no digital signature checks on new firmware versions. (If I were running their firmware development, things would be a little tighter :-) But there appears to be very little thought given to security for these things -- I would not expose them to the internet without a firewall. But they are nicely hackable without even physically opening the box. (Many thanks to the person who made logging in as root possible.)
 
That said, I'm quite impressed with this device -- it can generate some very complex waveforms, and they look *very* clean. It seems well made, and the software appears to work well. I'm quite happy with my purchase.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: BillB on March 05, 2018, 04:30:31 pm
Anyone poking around in their own SDG, I recommend being *very* careful. There are a few scripts that appear designed to install new versions of the firmware from USB or other devices - but they are not very well written scripts -- they completely erase the nand *before* checking if there is a good replacement image available. It appears easy to brick your device if you are not careful. (I suspect typing "reboot" from the command line while there is a USB key present might be enough to do it - I don't want to try to test this theory.)

Ian, which scripts?  I've been poking around on my SDG1032X, which has a very similar layout to the SDG2000X (i.e. running ./sdg1000.app instead).  I can say that so far, rebooting through console hasn't bricked my device yet.   :phew:

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: rf-loop on March 05, 2018, 05:31:41 pm
SDG1000X 30Mhz was hacked to 60Mhz as easily, I heard.

I must be a little slow on the uptake, as I'm not finding much when searching for the SDG1032X solution.  :-/O

I have one that desperately wants to become an SDG1062X.

Yes but this thread is for SDG2000X (SDG2042X)

Nice things for SDG1000X can find its own thread.

I think it is wise to keep these models separate for avoid confusion and mistakes (also we need think readers with different knowledge level) even when they have some similarities if we think some "adjustments" for performance.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: ian.ameline on March 05, 2018, 06:00:51 pm
Ian, which scripts?  I've been poking around on my SDG1032X, which has a very similar layout to the SDG2000X (i.e. running ./sdg1000.app instead).  I can say that so far, rebooting through console hasn't bricked my device yet.   :phew:

Glad to hear you don't have a brick... yet :-)

I'd avoid anything in /usr/sbin - this is the stuff that formats and overwrites flash - even nandtest (I dumped the binary and started to disassemble) doesn't look safe.

/usr/lib/siglentlib.sh is the script in question -- have a look -- it could be a little less eager to flash_erase in my opinion...


Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Dwaine on March 05, 2018, 06:31:10 pm
It's a very well made device.   I had my unit for about six months and really enjoy using it.  Siglent really hit a home run with this device.

Is there a web server installed that we could use?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: ian.ameline on March 05, 2018, 07:10:30 pm
Just for shits and giggles I decided to check the accuracy...

I have a relatively recently calibrated HP34401A (Last August cal) (Running with 10G input impedance, slow 6 digit mode)

The SDG was calibrated at the factory in December.

Everything warmed up for 2 hours, 21 degrees (C), 50% humidity.

The SDG2042X on channel 1, (DC Offset) is within 0.1% accuracy from 50mv to 10v. Below 50mv, it gets as bad as 0.5%. Channel 2 is within 0.2% from 50mv to 10V, and similar to ch 1 below that. At 100mv, both channels are reading 100.002x mv (last digit is not reliable IMO) -- That's as close as it got -- and not too shabby - pretty much at the limit of the accuracy of the 34401A.

(Below 100mv, the SDG is  slightly lower than claimed output -- above 100mv it is slightly higher. This was true for both channels.)

The specs for the SDG for DC offset are 1% +2mv. So these measurements are quite well within spec for the SDG.

Obviously a sample of 1 does not make for good statistics :-)

For frequency accuracy, at 100.000 000khz The internal counter on the SDG agrees - 100.000 00 khz. The HP34401A says 100.000 3 khz. The 34401 is specd at +-0.01% > 40khz -  (ie +-0.01khz for 100khz) so that reading is well within spec for the 34401. The internal counter specs for the SDG are 1 ppm or +- 0.000 1 khz for 100khz. So I'd tend to think that the counter in the SDG is closer to the truth here - but I'd expect it to agree with its output -- they're very likely using the same clock.

I'll check the ac voltages with the 34401 and see how they do.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: ian.ameline on March 05, 2018, 07:22:34 pm
It's a very well made device.   I had my unit for about six months and really enjoy using it.  Siglent really hit a home run with this device.

Is there a web server installed that we could use?

There is definitely not one running on the SDG device. The CPU and OS and hardware resources of the device would support running one if Siglent decided to put in the r&d effort.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: ian.ameline on March 05, 2018, 09:13:57 pm
AC performance appears excellent -- at 3.112 V P-P sine wave, I measure 1.100 VAC RMS from 50hz to 100khz, +- 0.25%

(Spec sheet says +- 1% +1mv at 10hhz, 2.5v p-p. So once again, significantly exceeding the accuracy of the spec.)

Interestingly the HP34401A claims to measure frequencies up to 300khz. With slightly higher voltages (12vp-p), I was able to get accurate frequency counts from it up to 1.9Mhz! (dropping the voltage affected things quite a bit, and not even 20v p-p would get an accurate reading at 2.0 mhz)

The 300khz claim is across a very wide range of voltages... 100mv to 750v.

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Plasmateur on March 06, 2018, 02:24:40 pm
Did Siglent ever figure out how to get both channels to trigger from a software trigger?

I must have been asking this question for over a year now.

Also, is there any way to do a phase locked pulsed sweep with this?
From a Feb FW changelog for SDG5000 models:
http://siglenteu.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=4059&tid=15 (http://siglenteu.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=4059&tid=15)
d.Manual trigger cannot trigger both channels simultaneously



Not actually what you've asked for but since the current FW is from 2017-09-07 it should be getting close to being added. I've pointed them a couple of times to your request.
Next week I'll ask now things are progressing.

Thanks! As for the other question. Do think they would be able add this functionality?

Sweep + Burst, phase locked.

Example,

I am able to sweep from 1MHz to 10MHz over some set amount of time, and that sweep is triggered?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on March 07, 2018, 09:42:57 am
Did Siglent ever figure out how to get both channels to trigger from a software trigger?

I must have been asking this question for over a year now.

Also, is there any way to do a phase locked pulsed sweep with this?
From a Feb FW changelog for SDG5000 models:
http://siglenteu.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=4059&tid=15 (http://siglenteu.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=4059&tid=15)
d.Manual trigger cannot trigger both channels simultaneously



Not actually what you've asked for but since the current FW is from 2017-09-07 it should be getting close to being added. I've pointed them a couple of times to your request.
Next week I'll ask now things are progressing.

Thanks! As for the other question. Do think they would be able add this functionality?

Sweep + Burst, phase locked.

Example,

I am able to sweep from 1MHz to 10MHz over some set amount of time, and that sweep is triggered?
I tried doing this with a SDG1032X today with partial success by controlling the sweep from the Aux input triggered from the 2nd channel by using a continuous pulse with a short duty cycle to activate a burst.

The Sweep needs be set to external source however while the sweep was doing its thing correctly and at the prescribed intervals, between the sweeps was a continuous fixed frequency sine wave.  :-//
Maybe I just cocked something up.

Would 'Gated Sweep' be a better description of what you'd like ?

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: chipss on March 13, 2018, 09:09:02 am
In Transit: On Time
Scheduled Delivery Date:
03/16/2018 by End of Day


Wooohoo
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: chipss on March 17, 2018, 10:55:40 am
  no joy with telnet, dhcp greys out if turned on, all zeros, and will lock the whole generator up if left on that screen, read the whole thread,  checked all the boxes, installed lower fw, no joy:-//


Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: BillB on March 17, 2018, 12:11:15 pm
  no joy with telnet, dhcp greys out if turned on, all zeros, and will lock the whole generator up if left on that screen, read the whole thread,  checked all the boxes, installed lower fw, no joy:-//

Have you tried not using DHCP, and just giving it a static IP?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: chipss on March 17, 2018, 08:42:23 pm
Yes , under Windows 10 and 7 get “network error connection refused” , under Mac , it just times out,
Not sure what I am doing wrong?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Safar on March 17, 2018, 09:04:21 pm
Yes , under Windows 10 and 7 get “network error connection refused” , under Mac , it just times out,
Not sure what I am doing wrong?
For use DHCP in any device you should have DHCP server in connected ethernet segment. Usually all devices have client only, so devices can't get address if there are no server. If you connect device directly to PC you can set it up manually in both sides (PC and device) in one subnet:
192.168.0.10/255.255.255.0
192.168.0.11/255.255.255.0
for example
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on March 17, 2018, 09:13:34 pm
Yes , under Windows 10 and 7 get “network error connection refused” , under Mac , it just times out,
Not sure what I am doing wrong?
I've had this problem so now I just ensure I have a LAN switch between PC and AWG on a router served network and ensure AWG DHCP is set to ON.

Edit
Correction added to give more clarity as explained below.

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Performa01 on March 17, 2018, 09:45:06 pm
I've had this problem so now I just ensure I have a LAN switch between PC and AWG and ensure DHCP is set to ON.

Sorry, but this info is misleading. An ethernet switch is the basis for a LAN, but I've never seen one that included a DHCP server. If something like that actually exists - which I cannot rule out of course - then it's certainly not a standard feature.

Routers on the other hand usually have an integrated DHCP server.

BillB and Safar have given the right pointers and I can confirm that it's absolute hassle free to connect an SDG-X to the LAN, either over DHCP or with manual address assignment (which I prefer anyway, because I like to have static IP addresses for certain parties in my LAN).
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: BillB on March 17, 2018, 10:10:34 pm
Yeah, the network config for this is straightforward.  Try a different port on the switch, make sure you are using a known good cable, and check the port lights on the switch/AWG for activity.  Try pinging the static IP you've configured.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: chipss on March 17, 2018, 10:16:13 pm
Safari thank you,love you brother!
 I am living proof even an idiot can like me can
Get things done with a little help, client and server not the same thing.
 :scared:  ended up just setting an ip and was assigned with dhcp server for Windows,
Not sure I could explain this to anyone, but after trying many ip # , that got me exactly what is was after.
Sporting a new, and very chromatic serial #!
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Plasmateur on March 18, 2018, 05:11:50 am
Also, is there any way to do a phase locked pulsed sweep with this?

Just curious: What is a "pulsed sweep"? And what should it be phase-locked with?

I apologize if I am using the incorrect terminology.

I'm using a pulse delay generator to trigger the SDG2042X. Their 10MHz clocks are tied together.

An example of what I need is.

No signal coming from the SDG2042X.

SDG2042X is triggered by pulse delay generator.

SDG2042X begins to output a sinusoidal signal at X frequency starting a 0 phase.

The frequency of the sinusoidal signal then linearly increases or decreases over Z time, ending at Y frequency.

If there is a better way to communicate this, please educate me!

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Plasmateur on March 18, 2018, 05:15:57 am
Did Siglent ever figure out how to get both channels to trigger from a software trigger?

I must have been asking this question for over a year now.

Also, is there any way to do a phase locked pulsed sweep with this?
From a Feb FW changelog for SDG5000 models:
http://siglenteu.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=4059&tid=15 (http://siglenteu.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=4059&tid=15)
d.Manual trigger cannot trigger both channels simultaneously



Not actually what you've asked for but since the current FW is from 2017-09-07 it should be getting close to being added. I've pointed them a couple of times to your request.
Next week I'll ask now things are progressing.

Thanks! As for the other question. Do think they would be able add this functionality?

Sweep + Burst, phase locked.

Example,

I am able to sweep from 1MHz to 10MHz over some set amount of time, and that sweep is triggered?
I tried doing this with a SDG1032X today with partial success by controlling the sweep from the Aux input triggered from the 2nd channel by using a continuous pulse with a short duty cycle to activate a burst.

The Sweep needs be set to external source however while the sweep was doing its thing correctly and at the prescribed intervals, between the sweeps was a continuous fixed frequency sine wave.  :-//
Maybe I just cocked something up.

Would 'Gated Sweep' be a better description of what you'd like ?

I'll check it out. Thanks!
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on March 18, 2018, 05:48:28 am
Did Siglent ever figure out how to get both channels to trigger from a software trigger?

I must have been asking this question for over a year now.

Also, is there any way to do a phase locked pulsed sweep with this?
From a Feb FW changelog for SDG5000 models:
http://siglenteu.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=4059&tid=15 (http://siglenteu.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=4059&tid=15)
d.Manual trigger cannot trigger both channels simultaneously



Not actually what you've asked for but since the current FW is from 2017-09-07 it should be getting close to being added. I've pointed them a couple of times to your request.
Next week I'll ask now things are progressing.

Thanks! As for the other question. Do think they would be able add this functionality?

Sweep + Burst, phase locked.

Example,

I am able to sweep from 1MHz to 10MHz over some set amount of time, and that sweep is triggered?
I tried doing this with a SDG1032X today with partial success by controlling the sweep from the Aux input triggered from the 2nd channel by using a continuous pulse with a short duty cycle to activate a burst.

The Sweep needs be set to external source however while the sweep was doing its thing correctly and at the prescribed intervals, between the sweeps was a continuous fixed frequency sine wave.  :-//
Maybe I just cocked something up.

Would 'Gated Sweep' be a better description of what you'd like ?

I'll check it out. Thanks!
This is what I've sent to Siglent:

Following on from a further request for added functionality for SDG2kX (see here)
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/msg1445269/#msg1445269 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/msg1445269/#msg1445269)

I attempted to investigate if a triggered sweep burst is possible in SDG1032X…….
It is, but not quite as I think it should be. (see attached screenshot)

Test setup.
Ch2: Pulse, 1us, 4V, repetition rate 50ms,  output to Aux IN
Ch1: Sweep, External Source, 500Hz-5KHz, Duration 10ms, 4V, output to scope

We can see there is a continuous sine wave between sweeps when instead I would expect 0V no waveform between sweep events.
Is there another method to create strings or bursts of triggered single sweep waveforms ?


(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=404770)

That's not hard to do but I don't think it's as I expected or even right.
I've not heard back from Tech support yet.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Performa01 on March 18, 2018, 08:07:45 am
Also, is there any way to do a phase locked pulsed sweep with this?

Just curious: What is a "pulsed sweep"? And what should it be phase-locked with?

I apologize if I am using the incorrect terminology.

I'm using a pulse delay generator to trigger the SDG2042X. Their 10MHz clocks are tied together.

An example of what I need is.

No signal coming from the SDG2042X.

SDG2042X is triggered by pulse delay generator.

SDG2042X begins to output a sinusoidal signal at X frequency starting a 0 phase.

The frequency of the sinusoidal signal then linearly increases or decreases over Z time, ending at Y frequency.

If there is a better way to communicate this, please educate me!



What you describe is an externally triggered and gated sweep. The SDG-X can do both, sweep and gate – but not at the same time :(

Maybe Siglent should reconsider which operating modes can be active in parallel and which one really need to be mutually exclusive.

Some combinations of Modulation and Sweep exclude each other for obvious reasons, but we could still have a frequency swept amplitude modulated signal for instance.

Modulation/Sweep + Burst/Gate should be perfectly possible to have active at the same time.

You want a gated sweep from 1-10MHz, if I got that right. This is currently not possible.

There is one scenario where we might be able to work around this limitation. For a linear sweep with very low start frequency, we could use a high-pass filter to replace the gate. For instance, if we want a sweep from 1-100Hz, we could actually make it from 1uHz (basically DC) to 100Hz instead and would get this:

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=404786;image)
SDG-X_Gated_Sweep_Subst
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: 2N3055 on March 18, 2018, 01:55:44 pm
This is a good candidate for AWG. Create a frequency burst/sweep as AW and use triggered Burst..
It is a little pedestrian way, but would work. It depends if PC software (or built in in a SIGGEN) can create such AWG waveform easily.
Or you could create it in something/somewhere else and import CSV.. Some script, Matlab/Scilab/Octave....
Regards,

Sinisa

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: sixtimesseven on March 20, 2018, 05:54:00 pm
I don't know if programing arb. waveforms via ethernet came up so far. But being too lazy to rtfm I decided to write Siglent support for an explanation and they pointed me to this blog post and PDF: https://www.siglentamerica.com/application-note/16-bit-step-arb-sdgx/ (https://www.siglentamerica.com/application-note/16-bit-step-arb-sdgx/) which I found really helpfull.

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Plasmateur on March 20, 2018, 07:39:59 pm
Also, is there any way to do a phase locked pulsed sweep with this?

Just curious: What is a "pulsed sweep"? And what should it be phase-locked with?

I apologize if I am using the incorrect terminology.

I'm using a pulse delay generator to trigger the SDG2042X. Their 10MHz clocks are tied together.

An example of what I need is.

No signal coming from the SDG2042X.

SDG2042X is triggered by pulse delay generator.

SDG2042X begins to output a sinusoidal signal at X frequency starting a 0 phase.

The frequency of the sinusoidal signal then linearly increases or decreases over Z time, ending at Y frequency.

If there is a better way to communicate this, please educate me!



What you describe is an externally triggered and gated sweep. The SDG-X can do both, sweep and gate – but not at the same time :(

Maybe Siglent should reconsider which operating modes can be active in parallel and which one really need to be mutually exclusive.

Some combinations of Modulation and Sweep exclude each other for obvious reasons, but we could still have a frequency swept amplitude modulated signal for instance.

Modulation/Sweep + Burst/Gate should be perfectly possible to have active at the same time.

You want a gated sweep from 1-10MHz, if I got that right. This is currently not possible.

There is one scenario where we might be able to work around this limitation. For a linear sweep with very low start frequency, we could use a high-pass filter to replace the gate. For instance, if we want a sweep from 1-100Hz, we could actually make it from 1uHz (basically DC) to 100Hz instead and would get this:

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=404786)
SDG-X_Gated_Sweep_Subst

Thank you for clarifying what I was after!  :phew:  :-+

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Plasmateur on March 20, 2018, 07:48:17 pm
This is a good candidate for AWG. Create a frequency burst/sweep as AW and use triggered Burst..
It is a little pedestrian way, but would work. It depends if PC software (or built in in a SIGGEN) can create such AWG waveform easily.
Or you could create it in something/somewhere else and import CSV.. Some script, Matlab/Scilab/Octave....
Regards,

Sinisa

I attempted to use the AWG to synthesize two mixed sinwaves. When I put the signal through a N9030A Agilent spectrum analyzer. It wasn't the cleanest.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: sixtimesseven on March 21, 2018, 10:16:20 am
Which DDS chip does Siglent use in the sdg2042x?
Please excuse the question, I couldn't find the part number via google of forum search.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: flash2b on March 21, 2018, 11:26:17 am
In the SDG2000X series the main DDS chip is a AD9122 16bit 1230MSa/s http://www.analog.com/media/en/technical-documentation/data-sheets/AD9122.pdf (http://www.analog.com/media/en/technical-documentation/data-sheets/AD9122.pdf)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: genesilvernail on March 22, 2018, 04:00:40 pm
New here.. so here's goes my ignorance.

Why when  setting sub unit dBm levels, i.e. x.xn does the vernier resort go coarse. Very witchy and bothersome when trying to achieve a precise ref level. Attenuator min increment??

PS also agree on locking or guarding user desired units magnitude.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: kj7e on April 02, 2018, 10:02:46 pm
Is there a way for the generator to force an external reference (and never change to the internal reference)?

Currently, the frequency reference is switched to internal (with no indication on the GUI) when the frequency reference is turned off. It's too easy to continue using it thinking that the frequency is still locked (and yielding bad data).

Also, I'm worried that when it defaults to internal reference, it is outputting 10 MHz on it's reference output which is directly connected to another instrument's 10 MHz out. Having two instruments outputting 10 MHz into eachother can't be a good thing. I don't know if the hardware supports it, but it'd be nice to tell it to disable the 10MHz output while using the internal reference.

There are a few parameters (like reference mode, screensaver, language, number format, and beeper) that I'd really like to always have saved (irrespective of the "power-on setting"). Maybe as a work-around, there could be an option to load a particular saved configuration on startup(so the choices would be factory default, particular configuration, or last configuration)?
Did you ever get this sorted as it is listed as being fixed in the FW version 21R2 changelog.
http://www.siglenteu.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=2426&tid=15 (http://www.siglenteu.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=2426&tid=15)

Latest version is 23R7

Someone please confirm Ext 10 MHz frequency reference settings are being held after reboot.

So.....still unable to trigger both channels at the same time with a software trigger.

Lame.
I'll look at this in detail in the next few days. Sorry you've had to wait this long.

I have 23R7 firmware and it will not hold the external clock setting with our without an external reference applied.  I know this was said to be addressed about 3 firmware updates ago, but it appears there is still some work to be done here.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on April 02, 2018, 10:11:33 pm
I have 23R7 firmware and it will not hold the external clock setting with our without an external reference applied.  I know this was said to be addressed about 3 firmware updates ago, but it appears there is still some work to be done here.
Yes there is and it's in progress.
Last FW was Nov 17 and since then it's been further discussed here and following few posts:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/msg1384209/#msg1384209 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/msg1384209/#msg1384209)

Siglent see the need to get this right and are addressing it and in good time I see this being added to all Siglent AWG's that support Ext clock.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: BillB on April 03, 2018, 12:16:29 am
Just got a good deal on a used one ;D
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: harrywgaul on April 05, 2018, 06:57:38 pm

Cn:WVDT seems to imply that waveform data can be uploaded via USBTMC, though it doesn't describe the format used. Is it a binary block? integers separated by commas, etc?

Waveform data can be uploaded via USBTMC.  I have used LabVIEW successfully.  I am happy to share my LabVIEW VI file with anyone who would like it.  Just PM me.  The format is sort of binary, sort of hex, and sort of ASCII.  Basically, the values are 16 bit and range from -32768 to 32767.  The values are expressed in a hexadecimal format such as 7FFF for the decimal value of 32767.  The hexadecimal format must be modified from the usual big endian format to little endian format.  For example, a big endian value of 7FFF must swap the first byte (FF) and second byte (7F) to obtain FF7F.  As an added complication, negative numbers are expressed as two's complement prior to changing from big endian to little endian.  To continue with the example of sending FF7F, these four characters are then sent to the SDG2000X as ASCII (8-bit) string characters.  It took me a while to figure out the LabVIEW code but it turned out to be surprisingly easy in LabVIEW.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Gixy on April 17, 2018, 09:14:18 pm
Hello,
Just received mine yesterday, upgraded in a minute (thx Janekivi!), then started to experiment all functions, impressive. But when I tried to play with the two chanels locked, I found something which seems at first abnormal: leaving the phase at 0°, the two signals are supposed to be in phase, and guess what, they are'nt. After ome measurement, I found that there is a constant time shift of 2.8ns between them, which leads to a phase deviation from roughly 0° below 1MHz but up to 120° at 120MHz. Playing with the phase parameter, you can adjust the signals to whatever phase deviation you want, but for that you need an oscilloscope, as the 2.8ns is not only function of the frequency, but also of the amplitude (the less the amplitude, the less the time shift). Here bellow some oscilloscope display captures.
Can one of you guys confirm this behaviour as a feature and not an hardware bug of my unit? (I also tried with same results chanels coupling, chanel copy and eqphase functions)
Thanks to all
Denis
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: pigrew on April 17, 2018, 10:28:56 pm


Can one of you guys confirm this behaviour as a feature and not an hardware bug of my unit? (I also tried with same results chanels coupling, chanel copy and eqphase functions)
Thanks to all
Denis

I saw a similar thing happen when I first tried to replicate this, but then I realized that my BNC cables were different lengths, and not 50 ohm terminated.

Once using equal length cables (even without 50 ohm termination), the phases were aligned.

The propagation delay in the cables should be around 1.5 ns per foot.

You should also play with using a BNC tee and equal length cables to verify your oscilloscope has calibrated timebases between channels.

-Nathan
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Gixy on April 18, 2018, 06:12:31 am
Thanks a lot Nahan to point this. You're right, my cables are of different lengths and I tried to swap them but I believe I remember that the result was the same; nevertheless I have to recheck that the deviation was not inverted. Let me see. They are 50 Ohm cables, one of them being the one provided with the unit. Thinking of it, the length difference should be around 2 feet, so 3ns, which is the problem: I will check as soon as possible!
Thanks again  :)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Gixy on April 18, 2018, 10:12:36 am
Shame on me! You're right Nathan, it's the cable length... I'm now trying to cut the longest one and put a new BNC connector on it.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on April 18, 2018, 10:24:25 am
Shame on me! You're right Nathan, it's the cable length... I'm now trying to cut the longest one and put a new BNC connector on it.
There's no shame in this.....we're all learning.  :)
Look harder at all the different coax types and you'll see there's different propagation speeds for all of them.
So while you might have leads all the same length, it doesn't mean they'll all have the same signal propagation characteristics. Modern DSO's provide deskewing of the channels to allow for different propagation characteristics.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: McBryce on April 18, 2018, 11:35:06 am
That why I always buy cables in pairs :)

McBryce.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: radiolistener on May 01, 2018, 02:21:11 am
Does anyone compared output signal fidelity of SDG2042X and SDG2122X?

Previously Timpert reported that the DAC markings had been ground off on his SDG2042X:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/msg942145/#msg942145 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/msg942145/#msg942145)

This is very strange, because review of SDG2122X from Dave Jones shows the DAC with normal marking AD9122.
So, probably it looks like SDG2042X uses different DAC, or even rejection samples which doesn't meet with AD9122 specs.
And this is may be the reason to ground off the marking on the DAC.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: radiolistener on May 06, 2018, 07:17:18 am
Can someone test SDG2042X with spectrum analyzer?
Are there any problems with spectral purity of the signal?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: radiolistener on May 11, 2018, 10:12:38 am
According to the datasheet, there are two revision for DAC AD9122.
Revision 2 has a consistent and lower spur level.
While revision 1 has a variable and higher spur level.

The difference in chip marking.
The chip with date code < 1001 is revision 1.
The chip with date code >= 1001 and with no TxDAC label is revision 1.
The chip with date code >= 1001 and with TxDAC label is revision 2.

Is it possible that SDG2042X uses revision 1 with higher spur level, while SDG2122 uses revision 2?

I'm just want to buy SDG2042X, but I'm not sure if it's output is as good as indicated in the SDG2122X review...
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Qw3rtzuiop on May 11, 2018, 11:04:25 am
Is it possible that SDG2042X uses revision 1 with higher spur level, while SDG2122 uses revision 2?

Unfortunately noone is able to answer that question because they removed the markings.

Dave had an early unit. Maybe they started to remove the markings later. Or they just remove them at the sdg2042x units.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: radiolistener on May 11, 2018, 11:45:17 am
It looks that they removed the marking of AD9122 for SDG2042X.
I think there is only one reason to hide it - because it has much worse spec.
As result, all measurement from Dave review is not applicable for SDG2042X.
Because Dave performed it for SDG2122X with good AD9122.

So, there is need for a measurement of the SDG2042X model. It may be very different from Dave results...
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on May 11, 2018, 12:05:05 pm
Can someone test SDG2042X with spectrum analyzer?
Are there any problems with spectral purity of the signal?
Next week I'll check one with an SSA3032X when I have more in stock......remind me.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: radiolistener on May 17, 2018, 12:47:06 pm
Next week I'll check one with an SSA3032X when I have more in stock......remind me.

any news?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on May 17, 2018, 07:35:15 pm
Next week I'll check one with an SSA3032X when I have more in stock......remind me.

any news?
Thanks, I should have them in a few days but I've lent my SSA3032X to member hendorog who wants to do some deeper checks on it's performance after comparing it last weekend against his new acquired 22GHz HP and 6 GHz Signalhound. He's got some nice stuff.  :)
So either I'll have to rock by his place next weekend or he'll come to me to return my SA.
Either way we'll get the sreenshots you want but it'll be another week, sorry.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: rfspezi on May 18, 2018, 06:31:15 am
During the development of my GPSDO, i compared the 10 MHz reference output of the SDG2042X with two high quality OCXOs.
I noticed that the 10 MHz output is permanently shifting frequency - like lacking phase over about 5 seconds and then hurrying up again.
As expected, this instability is also visible on the synthesized signals.  :-\
Can somebody confirm that and does anybody know what frequency the internal reference oscillator is running at?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: radiolistener on May 18, 2018, 11:44:05 am
does anybody know what frequency the internal reference oscillator is running at?

according to Dave review of SDG2122X, there is 10 MHz oscillator. It looks, that it can be easily replaced with more stable OCXO.
But there is need to perform frequency calibration after replacement, I'm not sure how to do it.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: rfspezi on May 18, 2018, 12:38:36 pm
Calibration can be easily done through the service menue.
However, where is that annoying phase shifting coming from?
Is the correction of the 10 MHz xtal done digitally and not through a voltage trimmable TCXO?
If so, i don‘t like it at all.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Gixy on May 18, 2018, 10:47:00 pm
I use my GPSDO (BG7TBL) as ext. ref. for both my SDG2042X (2122x...) and my TF930 frequency counter: no drift, and no need for calibration (imo).
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: flash2b on May 22, 2018, 12:15:16 pm
I have made a transistor Curve Tracer out of my Siglent SDG2042X and posted this on the Dutch CO forum.

Read the English version (via Google Translate) here: https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=nl&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=nl&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.circuitsonline.net%2Fforum%2Fview%2F141079&edit-text=&act=url (https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=nl&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=nl&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.circuitsonline.net%2Fforum%2Fview%2F141079&edit-text=&act=url)

Very versatile this 'little' function generator !
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: exe on May 22, 2018, 03:25:35 pm
It is a cool device! Did something similar to measure transition frequency of power BJTs. Unfortunately, 50ohm output might not be enough, so I used external supply (to have collector current around ~1A).
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on June 02, 2018, 07:36:05 am
Next week I'll check one with an SSA3032X when I have more in stock......remind me.

any news?
Thanks, I should have them in a few days but I've lent my SSA3032X to member hendorog who wants to do some deeper checks on it's performance after comparing it last weekend against his new acquired 22GHz HP and 6 GHz Signalhound. He's got some nice stuff.  :)
So either I'll have to rock by his place next weekend or he'll come to me to return my SA.
Either way we'll get the sreenshots you want but it'll be another week, sorry.
Here's those SA screenshots I promised a couple of weeks back.
Hendorog was kind enough to run my SSA3032X back and even grabbed them for us while we were having a good chat. Anything else you need please ask.

20 MHz sine, into 50 ohms.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=446350)

40 MHz sine
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=446356)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tangram on June 02, 2018, 12:11:25 pm
Guide for Dummies

1. Plug in ethernet cable and turn on unit
2. Press Utility -> Page 1/2 -> Interface -> LAN Setup -> DHCP ON
3. On you computer telnet (Windows use Putty, OS X and Linux can just use telnet on the CLI) to the IP Address that's displayed. (If you need to manually specify the port it's 23)
4. mount -o remount,rw ubi2_0 /usr/bin/siglent/firmdata0
5. cp /usr/bin/siglent/firmdata0/NSP_system_info.xml /usr/bin/siglent/firmdata0/NSP_system_info.xml.orig
6. vi /usr/bin/siglent/firmdata0/NSP_system_info.xml
7. Use the down arrow to navigate to the line which has '<license><bandwidth_update_license>xxxx</bandwidth_update_license></license>'
8. Press dd to delete the line. Press ESC. Type :wq then hit enter (write quit)
9. Turn unit off and on again

Works a treat!  Thanks so much :-)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: pigrew on June 03, 2018, 04:15:01 pm
Here's those SA screenshots I promised a couple of weeks back.
Hendorog was kind enough to run my SSA3032X back and even grabbed them for us while we were having a good chat. Anything else you need please ask.

These are are pretty good results. There are 1 MHz offset spurs on the 40 MHz plot. Where could these be coming from? Perhaps they would go away with an external 10 MHz reference?

Based on my understanding of the device errata, I don't think that the measurements would tell us anything. It says that there should be spurs at f_data +/- f_out. f_data is 1.2 GHz, I think? f_out is your carrier frequency, so we really should be looking for signals around 1 GHz. However, these would be filtered out in the analog front-end. We might be able to see mixing products ((f_data + f_out) mixing (f_data - f_out)) which would result in a spur at 2*f_out, and more generally the even harmonics. Though, my feeling is that non-linearities in the PA would add to the THD much more than these spurs. So, I don't think that we should be able to see any effect.

To measure the above, we'd probably need to probe before the filters/PA. The spurs might be independent of the signal power, so it should be measured in the bottom of an amplitude range (to reduce the relative power of the desired output signal). The measurement probably should be done with a 800 MHz or so high-pass filter, or a notch filter to block the programmed output frequency. There may also be an effect in the phase noise of the output signal (or the phase noise of the 1.2 GHz spur).

All in all, I don't think that it will have any real-world effect on instrument performance.

I'm much more interested in UI improvements/firmware updates (I noticed that the SDG6000X has separate 10 MHz ref in and out ports... I like that. (Another aside, why don't instrument manufacturers label the ports with their impedance and signal levels? I don't like having to dig that information out of the datasheet)).
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: radiolistener on June 04, 2018, 06:40:58 am
Here's those SA screenshots I promised a couple of weeks back.
Hendorog was kind enough to run my SSA3032X back and even grabbed them for us while we were having a good chat. Anything else you need please ask.

Thanks. As I can understand these pictures are taken for SDG2042X, is it right?
Could you please take the same pictures also for SDG2122X (for comparison)?

Also, I'm interesting to see two additional pictures:
1) 20 MHz sine with span 200 MHz
2) 20 MHz sine with minimum possible RBW
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on June 04, 2018, 08:11:36 am
Here's those SA screenshots I promised a couple of weeks back.
Hendorog was kind enough to run my SSA3032X back and even grabbed them for us while we were having a good chat. Anything else you need please ask.

Thanks. As I can understand these pictures are taken for SDG2042X, is it right?
Could you please take the same pictures also for SDG2122X (for comparison)?

Also, I'm interesting to see two additional pictures:
1) 20 MHz sine with span 200 MHz
2) 20 MHz sine with minimum possible RBW
Only have 2042X sorry and previous were at 40 (max) and 20 MHz.
I mucked around for quite a while to try and show more than 2 harmonics so more than those displayed are right down in the noise floor.
1)
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=447709)

2)
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=447715)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: radiolistener on June 04, 2018, 09:30:16 am
Only have 2042X sorry and previous were at 40 (max) and 20 MHz.
I mucked around for quite a while to try and show more than 2 harmonics so more than those displayed are right down in the noise floor.

Thanks a lot.
Now it will be interesting to compare it with SDG2082X, SDG2122X and with Rigol DG4102 in the same condition. 
Any chance you can do it in the future? ::)

Also, it will be great if you will test SDG2042X for this modulation issue: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlUUyydTXeY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlUUyydTXeY)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: mojoe on June 12, 2018, 02:09:08 am
I needed a square wave at 30 MHz, but the SDG2000X only goes up to 25 MHz. So, I created the attached waveform. Using DDS ARB mode, if I key in 3 MHz, I get 30 MHz. This works up to 120 MHz, but by the time you get to 50 MHz, it looks like a sine wave. Above 50 MHz, the amplitude isn't consistent.

To compare the internal square wave to my x10 square wave, I set channel 1 to the built-in 25 MHz square, and channel 2 to my x10 square with 2.5 keyed in.

The two looked similar, and equally usable. One difference was the phase. The x10 square wave had to be set to -5 degrees to coincide with the internally generated square wave. I checked that my cables were matched, using a BNC-T.

As I change frequency, the phase difference also changes. It seems to be linear. Why is there a phase difference between the built-in square wave, and the one generated by the DDS? Why does it change with frequency?

Also, the attached waveform doesn't work the same when using TrueARB mode. I obviously don't understand TrueARB mode. Can someone enlighten me?

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: LaserTazerPhaser on June 12, 2018, 06:06:30 am
So after reading instructions to modify generator am I correct about the modification procedure to max the hardware utilization (120MHz) that no firmware files are required to download and everything is already on the SDG2042X itself? I would much rather they have included nano over vi.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Gixy on June 12, 2018, 07:02:00 am
Hi Mojoe,
I read somewhere (don't remenber in which Siglent document) that the timing accuracy between the two channels is 400ps. That means that the  phase accuracy is variable depending of the frequency :
phi_acc = 360° x 400ps x freq
In your case for 25MHz, the phase accuracy should be : 360° x 400ps x 25MHz =  3.6°, which is close to the 5° you found.
At 120MHz which is the maximum sine wave frequency of the upgraded SDG2042X, you should get 17°, and I measured 13 to 14°.

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: mojoe on June 12, 2018, 07:29:50 am
Gixy,

Thanks for the info. I'll have to try both channels ouputting the built-in square wave to see if I still have the phase difference.

Edit: I just compared both channels, outputting the built-in square wave at 25 MHz. There is a 5 degree phase difference.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Performa01 on June 12, 2018, 10:09:28 am
Gixy,

Thanks for the info. I'll have to try both channels ouputting the built-in square wave to see if I still have the phase difference.

Edit: I just compared both channels, outputting the built-in square wave at 25 MHz. There is a 5 degree phase difference.


Have you enabled channel coupling for phase and made sure the phase difference is set to zero?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: exe on June 12, 2018, 09:14:48 pm
I needed a square wave at 30 MHz, but the SDG2000X only goes up to 25 MHz. So, I created the attached waveform. Using DDS ARB mode, if I key in 3 MHz, I get 30 MHz. This works up to 120 MHz, but by the time you get to 50 MHz, it looks like a sine wave. Above 50 MHz, the amplitude isn't consistent.

AFAIK they can only do ~8-10ns raise time. So, indeed, it can't do square waves above 25MHz, unfortunately.

Concerning amplitude, I don't remember having any issues. Do you have good coax connections with proper termination?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: mojoe on June 13, 2018, 03:24:17 am

Have you enabled channel coupling for phase and made sure the phase difference is set to zero?

With channel coupling, the phase difference is greatly diminished, but it is still there. If I need the phases to coincide, I'll just have to remember to adjust it.

Edit: To clarify, the above observation was comparing both channels, outputting the built-in square wave. When comparing the built-in waveform to the ARB DDS x10 waveform, channel coupling set to zero makes no difference. I still have 5 degrees difference.

Now that I know the behavior of the SDG, I can adjust to compensate. Thanks to all for the input.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: mojoe on June 13, 2018, 03:36:02 am

AFAIK they can only do ~8-10ns raise time. So, indeed, it can't do square waves above 25MHz, unfortunately.

Concerning amplitude, I don't remember having any issues. Do you have good coax connections with proper termination?

The built-in square wave at 25 MHz has a rise time of about 8 ns. The ARB DDS generated square wave at 25 MHz has a rise time of about 4 ns.

As for amplitute, remember, I'm talking about my ARB DDS x10 waveform. The built-in waveforms don't show any variability.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on June 24, 2018, 10:35:56 pm
Hey guys, can someone have a look at precaud's requirements and advise him if 2042X can do what he needs ?
Seems an unusual use case.  :-//

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/can-your-arb-generator-do-this/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/can-your-arb-generator-do-this/)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Adven on July 15, 2018, 07:13:04 am
Hello, So I know I am new and I know this is an old thread, but I could use some help. I have just purchased a SDG 2042X have installed the firmware "downgrade" entered in password and have successfully copy and pasted commands into telnet, successfully "dd" to delete the required line. then press ESC....  and nothing... just a "donk" sound of the key being rejected and cannot enter "wq" to write quit out of program, my Keyboard is on US, I have tried ESC, CTRL+] and CTRL+C nothing is working to get me to the exit prompt to enter WQ to write quit. cannot get it to work on the PC through putty or through CLI on my MAC and Telnet... I can get into the unit but I cannot finish the update to write quit. Please any help is greatly appreciated. thank you.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: exe on July 15, 2018, 07:19:37 am
try esc, then ":wq" (notice colon)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Adven on July 15, 2018, 07:45:16 am
try esc, then ":wq" (notice colon)

cheers, but unfortunately I cannot even type anything, after I delete the line required, I hit esc and nothing. it will not let me type or make changes
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: exe on July 15, 2018, 08:05:25 am
Then don't hit esc, just type ":wq". If you show me which instructions you follow I can try to figure what's wrong. Should be something very trivial.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: janekivi on July 15, 2018, 08:57:35 am
Again, this can help https://www.cs.colostate.edu/helpdocs/vi.html (https://www.cs.colostate.edu/helpdocs/vi.html)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Adven on July 15, 2018, 06:09:01 pm
Again, this can help https://www.cs.colostate.edu/helpdocs/vi.html (https://www.cs.colostate.edu/helpdocs/vi.html)
thank you for the resource, but non of these commands can "be implemented" as the error message at the bottom left side of putty keeps telling me, I'm ensuring that each line is cleanly copy and pasted from the original post (guide for dummies,see quote below)-thank you for that. then when I go to exit non of the commands that should exit me do.

Then don't hit esc, just type ":wq". If you show me which instructions you follow I can try to figure what's wrong. Should be something very trivial.
thank you, and you are completely right, I am sure it is something overly trivial. that's why I'm so baffled, I must be over looking something; and alas, not even just typing the command ":wq" works still says "not implemented" these are the original directions I'm using:
Guide for Dummies

1. Plug in ethernet cable and turn on unit
2. Press Utility -> Page 1/2 -> Interface -> LAN Setup -> DHCP ON
3. On you computer telnet (Windows use Putty, OS X and Linux can just use telnet on the CLI) to the IP Address that's displayed. (If you need to manually specify the port it's 23)
4. mount -o remount,rw ubi2_0 /usr/bin/siglent/firmdata0
5. cp /usr/bin/siglent/firmdata0/NSP_system_info.xml /usr/bin/siglent/firmdata0/NSP_system_info.xml.orig
6. vi /usr/bin/siglent/firmdata0/NSP_system_info.xml
7. Use the down arrow to navigate to the line which has '<license><bandwidth_update_license>xxxx</bandwidth_update_license></license>'
8. Press dd to delete the line. Press ESC. Type :wq then hit enter (write quit)
9. Turn unit off and on again
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Adven on July 15, 2018, 06:17:50 pm
I GOT IT!!!!!! THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR HELP!!!!!! AMAZING!!! was actually a hardware fault on my keyboard, the shift key was not being registered, swapped keyboards and all is well. you are all amazing thanks for all your help and patience!!! all 120 unlocked and golden!
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: janekivi on July 19, 2018, 03:18:03 pm
 As were Dave, I'm too a bit annoyed about too long warning message when you dial
to the some parameter limit. This is seems to be hardcoded to 3 in all functions, I wrote
there 1 in those places. Now this delay is much shorter - like 3 times shorter.
I was taking the same latest SDG2000_eevblog_23R7.ads and after editing the app
it is now there if you like to try.
SDG2000_eevblog_edit_23R7.zip (http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=23010654441958849690)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: LaserTazerPhaser on July 29, 2018, 11:21:24 pm
Guide for Dummies

1. Plug in ethernet cable and turn on unit
2. Press Utility -> Page 1/2 -> Interface -> LAN Setup -> DHCP ON
3. On you computer telnet (Windows use Putty, OS X and Linux can just use telnet on the CLI) to the IP Address that's displayed. (If you need to manually specify the port it's 23)
4. mount -o remount,rw ubi2_0 /usr/bin/siglent/firmdata0
5. cp /usr/bin/siglent/firmdata0/NSP_system_info.xml /usr/bin/siglent/firmdata0/NSP_system_info.xml.orig
6. vi /usr/bin/siglent/firmdata0/NSP_system_info.xml
7. Use the down arrow to navigate to the line which has '<license><bandwidth_update_license>xxxx</bandwidth_update_license></license>'
8. Press dd to delete the line. Press ESC. Type :wq then hit enter (write quit)
9. Turn unit off and on again

I am prompted with

Code: [Select]
# telnet 192.168.1.26
Trying 192.168.1.26...
Connected to 192.168.1.26.
Escape character is '^]'.


===============================================
|SIGLENT SDG project                   
===============================================
(none) login:

and using port 5024 gives, but no responses from ANY commands

Code: [Select]
telnet> open
(to) 192.168.1.26 5024
Trying 192.168.1.26...
Connected to 192.168.1.26.
Escape character is '^]'.
Welcome to the SCPI instrument 'Siglent SDG2042X'
>>

firmware is 2.01.01.23R7

I could not downgrade the firmware, tried the first 3 from oldest to newest all failed.

not sure if its possible to do the upgrade.

edit: I found a working downgrade, got full bandwidth after telneting in and removing the line, then did an upgrade to latest firmware revision - works well
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: evava on July 30, 2018, 08:53:15 am
edit: I found a working downgrade, got full bandwidth after telneting in and removing the line, then did an upgrade to latest firmware revision - works well
Can you please write which was working downgrade for you - thanks.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Safar on July 31, 2018, 06:18:29 pm


Telnet use 23 port as standard.
Why u used 5024?

And may be try another telnet client - putty etc.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Gixy on July 31, 2018, 07:34:31 pm
Hum, with original 23R7 you can't login with Telnet. Use the  janeviki version with which you can login with username admin and a password very simple to guess for members here...
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: guarneri0 on August 02, 2018, 05:39:20 pm
Hum, with original 23R7 you can't login with Telnet. Use the  janeviki version with which you can login with username admin and a password very simple to guess for members here...

Gixy - I tried to look around the site but can't find easily what you meant by "janeviki version" - could you please give a link/reference to that?

Thanks,
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tv84 on August 02, 2018, 05:43:37 pm
Hum, with original 23R7 you can't login with Telnet. Use the  janeviki version with which you can login with username admin and a password very simple to guess for members here...

Gixy - I tried to look around the site but can't find easily what you meant by "janeviki version" - could you please give a link/reference to that?

Thanks,

http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=83534199392458632882 (http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=83534199392458632882)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Safar on August 02, 2018, 05:55:57 pm
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/profile/?area=showposts;u=101256 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/profile/?area=showposts;u=101256)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: guarneri0 on August 02, 2018, 06:00:25 pm
tv84, thanks a lot!
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: analogRF on August 06, 2018, 03:12:25 pm
edit: I found a working downgrade, got full bandwidth after telneting in and removing the line, then did an upgrade to latest firmware revision - works well
Can you please write which was working downgrade for you - thanks.

I had the exact same issue, I went back down to version 1.17R5 then I could do the mod with no login requirement
and then went back up again to the latest version

EDIT: my original FW was 1.23R5 which does not exist on the Siglent website at all!
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: analogRF on August 06, 2018, 07:46:19 pm
has anybody lost his serial number after 120MHz mod?

mine changed to 0123456789 for some reason

I got it back though by simply changing the SN in the NSP_system_info.xml to what it was before

I am 100% sure I didnt touch that line of the file when I deleted the bandwidth <license>
and I clearly remember when I saved it the correct serial number was still there but after reboot
it was replaced by 0123456789

EDIT: I am using the janekivi 23R7 version now. But for the hack, I had downgraded my firmware and then upgraded to the official 23R7. But finally I decided to change to the edited firmware because of the shorted warning messages thanks to janekivi. I should have used that from the beginning :-(

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Safar on August 07, 2018, 08:52:04 am


has anybody lost his serial number after 120MHz mod?

mine changed to 0123456789 for some reason


Yes, it is known issue

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: CustomEngineerer on August 07, 2018, 06:49:59 pm


has anybody lost his serial number after 120MHz mod?

mine changed to 0123456789 for some reason


Yes, it is known issue

That is easy enough to avoid by not deleting your serial number from the config file.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: voltsandjolts on August 16, 2018, 12:02:04 pm
I recently bought a SDG2042X and I'm impressed. It's got some weight, feels sturdy, buttons and dial are good, screen is very clear.

I was going to try the Siglent EasyWave software but it demands that NI VISA be installed = 600MB or so. I dislike VISA, its so bloated.
I thought EasyWave would have let me create a waveform and just save it to USB stick for transfer to the SDG.  :palm: Sigh.

I'll probably use GNU Octave since I have that already but are there any other recommendations for making arb waves for the SDG2000X series?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on August 16, 2018, 06:58:03 pm
You don't need to install the full NIVISA package, instead look for NI VISA 540 Runtime and that's a much smaller package @ 75MB.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: voltsandjolts on August 17, 2018, 10:33:21 am
Here's a link to avoid the NI registration process for downloading NI-VISA Run-Time Engine 17.0
Win10, 123MB download. Still bloated but acceptable I guess.

http://www.ni.com/download/ni-visa-run-time-engine/6647/en/ (http://www.ni.com/download/ni-visa-run-time-engine/6647/en/)

Creating and downloading waveforms with EasyWave seems...erm, easy.

Thanks.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: radiolistener on August 17, 2018, 09:58:40 pm
You don't need to install the full NIVISA package, instead look for NI VISA 540 Runtime and that's a much smaller package @ 75MB.

but it installs a bunch of garbage to the system. The worse thing it add some processes into at system startup and they started each time at system startup, even if you don't use it.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on August 17, 2018, 10:04:58 pm
You don't need to install the full NIVISA package, instead look for NI VISA 540 Runtime and that's a much smaller package @ 75MB.

but it installs a bunch of garbage to the system. The worse thing it add some processes into at system startup and they started each time at system startup, even if you don't use it.
What OS are you running ?
Could this be an alternative ?
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/open-source-lxi-tools-and-liblxi-v1-0-released-for-gnulinux/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/open-source-lxi-tools-and-liblxi-v1-0-released-for-gnulinux/)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: PhilipPeake on August 18, 2018, 10:03:14 pm
has anybody lost his serial number after 120MHz mod?

mine changed to 0123456789 for some reason

I got it back though by simply changing the SN in the NSP_system_info.xml to what it was before

I am 100% sure I didnt touch that line of the file when I deleted the bandwidth <license>
and I clearly remember when I saved it the correct serial number was still there but after reboot
it was replaced by 0123456789

EDIT: I am using the janekivi 23R7 version now. But for the hack, I had downgraded my firmware and then upgraded to the official 23R7. But finally I decided to change to the edited firmware because of the shorted warning messages thanks to janekivi. I should have used that from the beginning :-(

If you followed the instructions, and just deleted the line containing the license, because of the way its formatted you took out the closing </system_information> tag.

You need to delete just the stuff between <license> and </license> (Inclusive of those tags)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: artelse on September 07, 2018, 02:17:38 pm
Hi, am in need of a staircase video waveform and booted up my SDG to find none was built in.. Does anyone know if there is such a waveform definition around somewhere? If not, what is the best way to construct one as an arb?

Edit: created a video waveform with EasyWave that unfortunately only works on Windows. Why not cross platform, this is the 21st Century..
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: ilciumbia on September 13, 2018, 11:07:41 pm
Hum, with original 23R7 you can't login with Telnet. Use the  janeviki version with which you can login with username admin and a password very simple to guess for members here...

Gixy - I tried to look around the site but can't find easily what you meant by "janeviki version" - could you please give a link/reference to that?

Thanks,


http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=83534199392458632882 (http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=83534199392458632882)

Ouch... Link broken... can you please help?...
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: petert on September 18, 2018, 12:47:50 am
I'd be interested in finding a valid link as well.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on September 22, 2018, 07:50:28 am
New firmware for SDG2000X models.

Version 2.01.01.23R8
13.6 MB
https://www.siglentamerica.com/download/7217/ (https://www.siglentamerica.com/download/7217/)

Changelog
Optimized calibration and PV process on the production line.  :-//


New units made ~6 weeks ago have this FW version installed.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: TAL on September 22, 2018, 12:19:11 pm
Still downgradable...  ;D

I've got a new unit yesterday and didn't notice any difference in the signal output between (stock) R8 Firmware and a lower one.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: analogRF on September 22, 2018, 12:22:48 pm
the 120MHz hack will not be affected, right?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: TAL on September 22, 2018, 12:39:41 pm
the 120MHz hack will not be affected, right?
Nope
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: janekivi on September 22, 2018, 02:57:44 pm
Changelog
Optimized calibration and PV process on the production line.  :-//

New units made ~6 weeks ago have this FW version installed.

If you look at the Changelog dates, then it is February there...

Date             Version             Revision
2/28/2018    2.01.01.23R8    Optimized calibration and PV (Product validation?) process on the production line.

ADS file itself is 21 September 2018, but files in that ADS are all from 14 November 2017.

Previous version:
8/29/2017    2.01.01.23R7, ADS contents were from 21 July 2017.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: petert on September 25, 2018, 03:11:23 pm
I got a package from Batronix which doesn't seem to be completely new.
I wonder especially about the coax cable and the missing CD.

Does anyone have pictures of the standard accessories that came with the SDG2042X?
How long is your coax cable?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: rf-loop on September 25, 2018, 04:56:48 pm
I got a package from Batronix which doesn't seem to be completely new.
I wonder especially about the coax cable and the missing CD.

Does anyone have pictures of the standard accessories that came with the SDG2042X?
How long is your coax cable?

SDG2000X Standard accessories are listed on Siglent web side.
Power cord, BNC cable 1m, quick start guide.

Data sheet have (bit) different info:
quick start guide, power cord, USB cable, factory calibration certificate, BNC coaxial cable

I have not seen any CD in any Siglent new product cartons. Long time ago Siglent informed that they do not anymore include CD. (Naturally because it is always obsolete and also today many computers, specially many popular laptops do not have museum CD.)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: petert on September 25, 2018, 05:46:32 pm
Well, the EU website  (https://www.siglent.eu/sdg2042x.html)said this (datasheet and manual agree and don't say "SDG5162"):
Quote
Accessoires Included:

Siglent SDG5162 Arbitrary Function Generator
User Manual
Guarantee Card
CD (including EasyWave 1.0 computer software system)
Power Cord
USB Cable
Quick Start Guide

Which is why I asked, because it didn't say anything about the length.

If you have proper PC equipment (even laptop) you have an optical drive, very useful if you don't have Internet ;)
Quote
Long time ago Siglent informed that they do not anymore include CD.
The manual which has a date of 2017, still mentions the CD.

The other reason why I asked is to get a more detailed view of the components, because my package seems to have been opened.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: rf-loop on September 25, 2018, 06:11:48 pm
Well, the EU website  (https://www.siglent.eu/sdg2042x.html)said this (datasheet and manual agree and don't say "SDG5162"):


This, and only this,  is official Siglent European area web side. (https://www.siglenteu.com/)

These are only official web sides
(slow) http://www.siglent.com/cn/index.aspx (http://www.siglent.com/cn/index.aspx)  (Siglent official domestic web side, chinese language. Do not change language if want see whole product portfolio available in China mainland)

(slow) www.siglent.com/ens (http://www.siglent.com/ens)  (Asian Headquarter, China, Shenzhen (there is also factory))
www.siglenteu.com (http://www.siglenteu.com)    (European sales office, Germany, Hamburg)
www.siglentamerica.com/ (http://www.siglentamerica.com/)  (North American Headquarter)

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: petert on September 25, 2018, 07:07:11 pm
Well, the EU website  (https://www.siglent.eu/sdg2042x.html)said this (datasheet and manual agree and don't say "SDG5162"):


This, and only this,  is official Siglent European area web side. (https://www.siglenteu.com/)
Looks like the manual was updated in 2018, and the other site (interesting how siglent allows them to use that name, if they are no affiliated...) still has the old one.
Your link is certainly more complete and has more complete documentation/software links.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bugi on September 25, 2018, 09:43:15 pm
If you have proper PC equipment (even laptop) you have an optical drive, very useful if you don't have Internet ;)
As a side note, around half (or maybe even more) of the new laptops bought into our corner of the company don't have any optical drive, and that has been the state for few years now. It isn't often needed, but when it is, many colleagues need to hunt a person whose laptop still has such a drive :P  All the laptops are still quite the "proper" PC equipment. USB-sticks are where it is at now (when not having internet).

I have personally needed optical drive only during the first setup (more than 4 years ago IIRC), and even then, only because I asked for downgraded Windows version. For certain drivers, the only working versions could finally be found on the CD (or was it DVD) that came with the laptop. The downloadable ones had been just updated and they no longer supported the downgraded windows version.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: petert on September 25, 2018, 10:35:01 pm
Quote
As a side note, around half (or maybe even more) of the new laptops bought into our corner of the company don't have any optical drive, and that has been the state for few years now.
"Museum" and similar talk is marketing lingo.
Many laptops and development systems are locked down, does that mean it's a good idea? Apple removes the headphone jack, and just one USB plug remains, which forces you to use adapters. Is that practical? Reducing options is not necessarily a good idea, just because it's a trend.

I have personally needed optical drive only during the first setup (more than 4 years ago IIRC), and even then, only because I asked for downgraded Windows version. For certain drivers, the only working versions could finally be found on the CD (or was it DVD) that came with the laptop. The downloadable ones had been just updated and they no longer supported the downgraded windows version.
I don't need them often, but it's simply more reliable to have several options. Obviously data is just data no matter the medium.

Having cloud systems is fine as additional option, but nothing you can rely on, vendors have taken downloads down often enough. Do I need software on an optical disc? If it's expensive I prefer to have it like this and be independent, otherwise I don't care.
But it's certainly easier to store optical discs reliably than doing so with hard disks, and having to make backups of original software as well.

I am a professional software developer, and I need to support various platforms. The faster I can get up and running without having to jump through other companies' processes, the better.

I have seen enough vendors change owners or changing licensing policy or simply not providing download options (or requiring annoying phone calls etc.).
It's all about efficiency.

P.S.: They could provide an SD-card or thumb drive stick or whatever. Now it only means I need to care for another data piece to backup in a reliable way.

Not an improvement!
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: MrW0lf on October 01, 2018, 02:28:41 pm
Noticed phase angle assuming wrong value with dissimilar waveforms. Ch1=square, Ch2=sine. Shift is set to -45° on Ch1, result is ~-55° instead. When switching Ch1 to sine or Arb/DDS square shift assumes correct value. State file and screenshot of result attached. Latest fw.

Edit: Should you ever need sharper rise than default square Arb/DDS one will do it:
Default: 0.35/9.6ns~=36.5MHz
Arb/DDS: 0.35/5.5ns~=63.6MHz

Edit2: Arb/DDS just had favourable setting :( When set 90° get ~86.5°. Screenshot attached. Possibly this has some technical justification.

Edit3: Small unrelated annoyance. When switching CH1<=>CH2 screens it will always switch Frequency|Period to last used on other screen. So if want fiddle only with freq on CH1 and with period on CH2 it's quite a hassle.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tv84 on October 04, 2018, 09:05:37 pm
Telnet without changing root password...

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ads-firmware-file-format/msg1870091/#msg1870091 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ads-firmware-file-format/msg1870091/#msg1870091)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: MotoDan on October 05, 2018, 04:46:55 pm
Recently bought an SDG2042X and am really impressed so far. Does anyone know of a VI control for these generators? I'd like to be able to do basic control over the instrument via PC.

Thanks!
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: JDubU on October 05, 2018, 05:35:32 pm
MotoDan,

I have not used a Labview VI, but I have used Python to control (and calibrate) my SDG2042X.

There's an example of using Labview starting on page 64 of the Siglent SDG programming manual:
http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Documents/Program_Material/SDG_Programming_Guide.pdf (http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Documents/Program_Material/SDG_Programming_Guide.pdf)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: MotoDan on October 05, 2018, 07:55:01 pm
Thanks for the info JDubU. What I'm really after is a Windows GUI that comes close to matching the SDG's front panel. Just need a way to change settings via my PC which is located away from my rack of instruments. I use a similar program (M9700) with my Maynuo DC Load.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on October 05, 2018, 08:05:23 pm
Thanks for the info JDubU. What I'm really after is a Windows GUI that comes close to matching the SDG's front panel. Just need a way to change settings via my PC which is located away from my rack of instruments. I use a similar program (M9700) with my Maynuo DC Load.
The closest you'll get IIRC is form within the EasyWave software from Siglent. Not sure if there's a virtual panel for the AWG's like there is for the scopes though, I can check for you later.
Now, with EasyWave you need to install NIVISA Runtime at the least to provide the correct drivers for PC connectivity......be sure to do this first before you connect SDG to a Windows PC otherwise Windows will think it knows best and then install the wrong USB driver.  ::)
Let us know how you go as I can check this in full later.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: commongrounder on October 05, 2018, 08:35:45 pm
tautech I have EasyWave installed for my SDG1000 arb gen, and unfortunately, it does not have a virtual remote control panel for the gen (However, I don’t know about how it might work with other models). It does the wave creation and editing, and lets you save locally or upload to the gen (as well as download any of the arb or built in waveforms from the gen). A remote panel would be a great feature, for sure.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: MotoDan on October 05, 2018, 08:44:22 pm
I have EasyWave, but it is only for generating, storing, and recalling waveforms. Surely someone offers a virtual instrument program for the SDG's.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: MrW0lf on October 09, 2018, 10:09:16 am
Found the cause for phase error. At max allowed freq of 25MHz sine-square error is ~45° and it will scale eg absolute offset is ~5ns. Just in case checked at 500kHz also and indeed: 45° for sine-sine and 45.9° for sine-square.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=543197;image)



Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Plasmateur on November 02, 2018, 03:46:38 am
Hey tautech,

Do you know if Siglent was ever able to get this this to trigger both channels at the same time with a software trigger?

I also purchased the SDG6000 series for my lab, and some guys have been pretty impressed by the value it offers.

Do you know if Siglent will be able to make these units capable of being triggered to do a burst/sweep? That would be super sweet.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on November 02, 2018, 04:38:30 am
Hey tautech,

Do you know if Siglent was ever able to get this this to trigger both channels at the same time with a software trigger?

I also purchased the SDG6000 series for my lab, and some guys have been pretty impressed by the value it offers.

Do you know if Siglent will be able to make these units capable of being triggered to do a burst/sweep? That would be super sweet.
Have you checked with the latest firmware ?
IIRC tech support said they would implement it but couldn't say when.
Not all changes/bugs are detailed in the changelog so I suggest you check with a unit......I haven't got one unpacked ATM.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: adamgreig on November 10, 2018, 04:57:15 pm
I've just unpacked my SDG2042X after a few months of storage and while it powers up OK, none of the front panel buttons work!

The touchscreen still functions so I can turn the outputs on/off and the unit is clearly not frozen up, but I can't use the buttons or knob so can't adjust any parameters or get into the system menu etc. The light-up buttons all flash at startup and  the Parameter button is illuminated thereafter, so I think there's still a working connecting somehow, just the button inputs are being ignored.

Firmware 2.01.01.23R7.

Anyone have any ideas on how to recover it? It was working fine before I packed it up...
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tv84 on November 10, 2018, 05:24:37 pm
Anyone have any ideas on how to recover it? It was working fine before I packed it up...

Humidity...   Let it warm up and/or place a lamp next to the buttons to speed up.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: adamgreig on November 10, 2018, 05:27:30 pm
Thanks, I'll leave it on and keep trying. It's been stored indoors in a warm room though, so I wouldn't expect it to be too bad.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: krzychosz on December 07, 2018, 05:16:55 pm
Hi There,

I was looking for this file (SDG2000_eevblog_23R7.zip) and seems that all previously posted links are broken.
Could you please upload it again?


Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: sixtimesseven on December 14, 2018, 02:37:19 pm
I was trying to load ARBW data via visa (USB/Ethernet/GPIB) to my SDG2000 and got a bit stuck.
After asking Siglent support they sent me the attached demo script.

Nice support from them for my hacked device ;D
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: colorado.rob on December 21, 2018, 02:42:58 am
Is there any simple way that I can make a screen copy on internal or USB memory for my Siglent SDG2042X ? On my Siglent SDM3055 there is an option to do a screen copy to a USB stick but this is missing on the SDG2042X. My Rigol DS2102A and DP832A also support making screen copy to USB stick.

This was asked two years ago. I did not see a response from Siglent on this.  I was in the middle of harping on this when, on a lark, I grabbed my SDS screenshot code (http://"https://gist.github.com/mobilinkd/8a07cc124946c87715c6a1458118411e") and put my SDG hostname in.  Well... see for yourself.

$ ~/sds_scdp.py -o test.png sdg2122x


(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=601603;image)

I don't see this feature documented in the SDG programming guide.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Rerouter on December 21, 2018, 09:01:28 am
The scopes have a similar SCDP command, its documented in the SDS2000 programming guide,
If you want help finding undocumented SCPI commands, send me the system application and I'll take a look. (don't own the device, but not hard to find in the file)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Calvin on December 21, 2018, 03:26:20 pm
Hi,

maybe it has been reported earlier in this thread already but unfortunately I couldn´t find a ´search in this thread´ function.
What I like about my SDG2042X besides it beeing a great generator is that I can use it for curve tracing of small signal transistors  :-+
As it offers two channels one can easily and quickly generate the Ramp resp. Staircase waveforms required.
I think it should also be possible to test power devices too in that I take a dc-capable power amplifier to boost the Ramp signal to the required voltage and current levels.
A simple Dual output lab-supply could then power the amp.
The supply is also useful to evaluate the Ic over Vbe curves ... supplying a constant voltage to the transistor´s collector and feeding the basis with a ramp signal.
In any case my old Philips PM3267 draws beautiful curves in a smashin´ GreenLantern green  ;) .... the new SDS2104X-E DSO isn´t as good in that ... as probabely all DSOs.

regards
Calvin

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: colorado.rob on December 21, 2018, 07:03:45 pm
Just for completeness, I checked and the same SCDP (screendump) script from above works for my SDM3065X and SSA3021X.  I have a Microsoft Natural keyboard with 5 programmable hotkeys on the top.  I have them now each mapped to grab screenshots of my SDS2204X, SDG2122X, SDM3065X and SSA3021X respectively.  Just need one more piece of kit to fill out all 5 buttons.  If Siglent's electronic load is anything to write home about, that may well be it.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on December 21, 2018, 11:02:34 pm
Just for completeness, I checked and the same SCDP (screendump) script from above works for my SDM3065X and SSA3021X.  I have a Microsoft Natural keyboard with 5 programmable hotkeys on the top.  I have them now each mapped to grab screenshots of my SDS2204X, SDG2122X, SDM3065X and SSA3021X respectively.  Just need one more piece of kit to fill out all 5 buttons.  If Siglent's electronic load is anything to write home about, that may well be it.
Been pumping for info on the E-load but zip being offered and zip on the Chinese website.  :(

Nice job on the hot keys.  :-+
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: flash2b on December 22, 2018, 08:31:43 am
Hi,

maybe it has been reported earlier in this thread already but unfortunately I couldn´t find a ´search in this thread´ function.
What I like about my SDG2042X besides it beeing a great generator is that I can use it for curve tracing of small signal transistors  :-+
As it offers two channels one can easily and quickly generate the Ramp resp. Staircase waveforms required.

I already reported this in May 2018: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/msg1558246/#msg1558246 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/msg1558246/#msg1558246)

(https://www.uploadarchief.net/files/download/curve%20tracer%20-%20npn.jpg)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Calvin on December 22, 2018, 12:52:40 pm
Hi,

then the credit´s all Yours  :-+
Jeulin never heard of that one .... though it´s only 50m to France from my place ... but the blue looks are certainly fine  ;)

regards
Calvin
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: McBryce on December 23, 2018, 10:42:27 am
Just for completeness, I checked and the same SCDP (screendump) script from above works for my SDM3065X and SSA3021X.  I have a Microsoft Natural keyboard with 5 programmable hotkeys on the top.  I have them now each mapped to grab screenshots of my SDS2204X, SDG2122X, SDM3065X and SSA3021X respectively.  Just need one more piece of kit to fill out all 5 buttons.  If Siglent's electronic load is anything to write home about, that may well be it.

Now that's the best "TEA" excuse I've heard in a long time... "I had to buy another meter, there was an unused programmable hotkey on my PC's keyboard" :D

McBryce.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tv84 on December 23, 2018, 11:00:05 am
Now that's the best "TEA" excuse I've heard in a long time... "I had to buy another meter, there was an unused programmable hotkey on my PC's keyboard" :D

If he replaces it for a gaming keyboard then he better do some house upgrading also.  ;D
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Rerouter on December 23, 2018, 11:22:57 am
Dont forget many mice these days have programmable option keys  >:D
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: MartyMacGyver on December 25, 2018, 06:05:29 am
I was looking for this file (SDG2000_eevblog_23R7.zip) and seems that all previously posted links are broken.
Could you please upload it again?

I second this request... my SDG2042X just arrived and I'm eager to open the throttle on it.  :D

(It currently has 2.01.01.23R8 on it. If the process for modding this has changed though, it'd be good to know that as well.)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tv84 on December 25, 2018, 09:32:57 am
(It currently has 2.01.01.23R8 on it. If the process for modding this has changed though, it'd be good to know that as well.)

Alternative. (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ads-firmware-file-format/msg1870091/#msg1870091)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: MartyMacGyver on December 25, 2018, 09:53:27 am
(It currently has 2.01.01.23R8 on it. If the process for modding this has changed though, it'd be good to know that as well.)
Alternative. (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ads-firmware-file-format/msg1870091/#msg1870091)
Funny you should mention that, because that is precisely the post I was reading and attempting to execute before just now seeing your reply.

However... it's not clear how to actually load this file (in my case `telnet_SDG2000X.ADS`). It won't flash as firmware (apparently I'm not the first to rule that method out), but it's not clear how else that can be flashed? Or is this a "boot with this file alone" sort of thing? Or is it a file naming thing?

Edit: OH HO HO! "Update Failed!" is not what it appears.... it actually worked.

Edit2: I followed along here (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/msg928681/#msg928681) and made the necessary updates. I now have an SDS2122X!

What's interesting (and I've seen mention of it elsewhere) is that my serial number got reset to `0123456789`. I was able to fix it by manually entering the digits in the field, but even replicating the process and carefully not removing `</system_information>` along with the rest of the `<license>` line as the dummies guide suggests still has the same net effect.

So, to others doing this, note your serial number (and maybe copy the whole block of XML out of the editor and into some safe place) so you can put it back in later. It's easy enough, just a bit of a quirk to be aware of.

Thanks once again for the help!
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bicycleguy on December 26, 2018, 05:13:46 pm
(It currently has 2.01.01.23R8 on it. If the process for modding this has changed though, it'd be good to know that as well.)
Alternative. (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ads-firmware-file-format/msg1870091/#msg1870091)
. . .
Edit: OH HO HO! "Update Failed!" is not what it appears.... it actually worked.
...

What worked exactly?  I get the update failed after about 4 seconds, 90% and everything appears the same, still can't get passed the login.  Do you have to reboot?  I'm on a Mac and using nc x.x.x.x 23 -ctv  for telnet.  Have tried all combinations of ct &v to no avail.  Any clue on what I am missing?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bicycleguy on December 26, 2018, 05:19:29 pm
Of course as soon as I ask the question I figure it out, reconnect to the 10101 port.
Thanks for all the work on this.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bicycleguy on December 26, 2018, 09:49:47 pm
FWIW
The vi on the SDG2042X Ver 2.01.01.23R8 didn't seem to work using the root file.  Couldn't get it into command mode using either a mac or Rpi, both with nc.  Could see the text and add to it but no way to move around esc or save,  contrl-c to get out.  Could be how nc is configured or the root fix?

So copied the file to the usb stick, modified and copied back.  Definitely req'd 'Linux for Dummies'.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bashmntl on January 05, 2019, 03:41:26 pm
I tried booting my SDG2042x this morning and was met with this screen and a series of beeps. I noticed the fpga led is not flashing as per the service manual (all voltages are good). As well, from the console, I can see a slew of messages saying that writing to the fpga has failed eg.

fpga_init_load_fpga_file_to_fpga::str_path = /usr/bin/siglent/config/fpga/fpga.bin
[[33m[WARNNING]:[[0mfpga_check_read_operate_state_finish():line=4465:i=1001;ret=0;reg_value=0;read flash state, time out!

 and finally
E0101 00:00:25.526660   579 drv_fpga.cpp:127] chip not ok! write_value:85,read_walue:0
drv_fpga_t::fpga_is_clock_source_stable  clk_reg.value=1


I'm just a bit baffled as to why the fpga would be good one afternoon and bad the next morning. Has someone else suffered a similar problem or has some insight?
Thanks
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: kim.dd on January 18, 2019, 07:47:17 pm
I unlocked my SDG2042X some time ago and noticed the amplitude starts to roll off after 40MHz (-1db @ 90MHz).
I think the unlock allows you to output up to 120MHz, but the amplitude will not be as accurate as below 40MHz.
Check this post https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/measuring-bandwidth-ds1074z/msg1963346/#msg1963346 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/measuring-bandwidth-ds1074z/msg1963346/#msg1963346).
Redid the measurement with an old 100MHz analog scope (Tektronix 2235) and same result.
Perhaps a hardware output filter or missing calibration for the higher frequencies?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on January 18, 2019, 07:58:20 pm
I unlocked my SDG2042X some time ago and noticed the amplitude starts to roll off after 40MHz (-1db @ 90MHz).
I think the unlock allows you to output up to 120MHz, but the amplitude will not be as accurate as below 40MHz.
Check this post https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/measuring-bandwidth-ds1074z/msg1963346/#msg1963346 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/measuring-bandwidth-ds1074z/msg1963346/#msg1963346).
Redid the measurement with an old 100MHz analog scope (Tektronix 2235) and same result.
Perhaps a hardware output filter or missing calibration for the higher frequencies?
Maybe but it needs checking against the datasheet spec:
P8 Output Characteristics:
Accuracy ±(1%+1mVpp) 10 kHz sine, 0 V offset
Amplitude flatness
+0.4 dB 100~120 MHz (Included), 50Ω load, 2.5Vpp, 10kHz Sine
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: kim.dd on January 19, 2019, 08:50:35 am
I bought a 40Mhz unit and it looks like it's in spec to 40MHz so no complaining here.
Just saying unlocking doesn't mean your unit will be in spec for the higher unlocked bandwidth.
Still a good buy, the unit is unlocked still in spec somewhat above 60MHz and is cheaper than the Rigol DG952 + doesn't look like crap :)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: 2N3055 on January 19, 2019, 11:42:45 am
I bought a 40Mhz unit and it looks like it's in spec to 40MHz so no complaining here.
Just saying unlocking doesn't mean your unit will be in spec for the higher unlocked bandwidth.
Still a good buy, the unit is unlocked still in spec somewhat above 60MHz and is cheaper than the Rigol DG952 + doesn't look like crap :)

What you measured is a frequency response of your scope. Normally scope's don't have a specification for frequency response flatness, and cannot be used to verify sig-gens that are order of magnitude better in that respect than general purpose scopes. That is a job for at least calibrated spectrum analyser, or better (how it should be done) a calibrated power sensor should be used (that is how siggens are calibrated).

All AWG units that are field upgradeable to a higher bandwidth with just license come adjusted for full span from factory.
Otherwise it would be return to factory upgrade.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: kim.dd on January 19, 2019, 12:50:07 pm
I guess your right, just checked the measurements and to fit them I need a first order low pass with a -3dB somewhere around 180MHz.
So both the digital and analog scope probably have an analog -3dB bandwidth of around 180MHz causing a measurable roll off above 40MHz.
I do not have the equipment to check if the applied hack from 40MHz to 120MHz is flat within +-0.4db, but probably is.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: kawasakix on March 08, 2019, 06:47:33 pm
Upgrading from 40 MHz to 120 MHz still possible.
Generator received today with firmware 2.01.01.23R8 installed.
Firmware update performed in version 2.01.01.17R5. Editing the file.
Update again in firmware 2.01.01.23R8 and everything is OK.
The 120 MHz are present.  8)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: dkggpeters on March 08, 2019, 07:22:25 pm
Upgrading from 40 MHz to 120 MHz still possible.
Generator received today with firmware 2.01.01.23R8 installed.
Firmware update performed in version 2.01.01.17R5. Editing the file.
Update again in firmware 2.01.01.23R8 and everything is OK.
The 120 MHz are present.  8)

FYI, you can do the hack direltly from 23R8 and there is no need to downgrade then upgrade again.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: kawasakix on March 08, 2019, 08:46:18 pm


FYI, you can do the hack direltly from 23R8 and there is no need to downgrade then upgrade again.

I do not agree.
I understood that from the version 2.01.01.21R2, it was necessary a login and a password and it is very true.
I just checked at the moment and without login and password, with the version 2.01.01.23R8, it is impossible.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: dkggpeters on March 08, 2019, 08:51:03 pm


FYI, you can do the hack direltly from 23R8 and there is no need to downgrade then upgrade again.

I do not agree.
I understood that from the version 2.01.01.21R2, it was necessary a login and a password and it is very true.
I just checked at the moment and without login and password, with the version 2.01.01.23R8, it is impossible.

Use the Telnet_SDG2000X file as in the link in post # 1027 above.  That is how I did it.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: kawasakix on March 08, 2019, 09:45:56 pm


FYI, you can do the hack direltly from 23R8 and there is no need to downgrade then upgrade again.

I do not agree.
I understood that from the version 2.01.01.21R2, it was necessary a login and a password and it is very true.
I just checked at the moment and without login and password, with the version 2.01.01.23R8, it is impossible.

Use the Telnet_SDG2000X file as in the link in post # 1027 above.  That is how I did it.

OKAY. Sorry, I did not know.
I do not read English well.
Thank you.  :D
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: dkggpeters on March 09, 2019, 07:24:33 pm
Nice read in this thread.   I just ordered a SDG2122X and should be here for my birthday (it was my birthday present to myself)  Ordered from TEquipment.
Have to say they are great.   They recently had it on sale and honored the EEVBLOG discount so got it for just over 700  :clap:  :phew:
Congrats, I only heard good stuff too from my internal sources.  ;)

Good for you smgvbest - I really love my SDG2082X.
Thanks for your feedback too.  :-+

No worries.  I was just trying to let others now and wasn’t trying to argue with you.  My mistake if taken that way.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: TWMIV on March 20, 2019, 03:21:54 am
Is there a way to save the accumulated data from the counter, export a csv of the data or something?
I cant find anything in the manual, from a google search or poking around on the device.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on March 20, 2019, 04:11:24 am
Is there a way to save the accumulated data from the counter, export a csv of the data or something?
I cant find anything in the manual, from a google search or poking around on the device.
Maybe use a command string with the SCPI command set.
http://www.siglentamerica.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2017/10/SDG_Programming_Guide.pdf (http://www.siglentamerica.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2017/10/SDG_Programming_Guide.pdf)

Check P36/68
3.17 Frequency Counter Command
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: TWMIV on March 20, 2019, 04:29:11 am
That will work for the future, FCTN? will return the current information.
Looks like it just can not export counter data that it has been taking other than the statistical information.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on March 20, 2019, 04:37:55 am
That will work for the future, FCTN? will return the current information.
Looks like it just can not export counter data that it has been taking other than the statistical information.
I'm no expert on SCPI but as I see it FCTN FRQ should just return the frequency then all you need is to run this in a loop for whatever logging time you need.
Dunno how to do that but someone smarter than me will chime in lets hope.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: TWMIV on March 20, 2019, 04:39:49 am
That is what I am planning on doing. If I have time tomorrow I will see if I can put together a small python program to handle that with pyvisa. I got it working in Keysight connection expert, so it will work.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: k8943 on April 07, 2019, 06:39:41 pm
I keep wanting to get this machine.... then keep thinking won't use it enough.

Anyone give some clues or encouragement?!   :scared:
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: ebastler on April 07, 2019, 06:46:51 pm
I keep wanting to get this machine.... then keep thinking won't use it enough.
Anyone give some clues or encouragement?!   :scared:

You can hack it for free, to give you features which you will use even less!  8)

Does that count as "encouragement"?
The argument worked for me...  ;)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: k8943 on April 07, 2019, 06:50:20 pm
That summarises some of the temptation and most of the fear quite well.

It would be as expensive as anything else on the bench but will I start finding uses in proportion?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: BillB on April 07, 2019, 07:33:03 pm
It would be as expensive as anything else on the bench but will I start finding uses in proportion?
Like any tool, an AWG has its uses and comes in very handy when you need it.  However, it's unlikely that you'll use it even a fraction of the time of your DMM or scope.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: k8943 on April 07, 2019, 07:39:42 pm
Yes those things - and in the most literal sense the decent Stereo Microscope - are literally the eyes with which one can see.... Was sort of hoping the the AWG could be a part of that in ways that might surprise one that doesn't have one.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on April 07, 2019, 08:17:23 pm
Yes those things - and in the most literal sense the decent Stereo Microscope - are literally the eyes with which one can see.... Was sort of hoping the the AWG could be a part of that in ways that might surprise one that doesn't have one.
Does the cheaper SDG1032X interest you then ?
No touch screen, lower sampling rate and less mem depth but otherwise can do everything 2042X can do.
It also can be 'improved' to 1062X model.  ;)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: k8943 on April 08, 2019, 05:59:00 am
16bit DAC and better navigation seem "must haves" and the price is not off putting. Just try to follow the discipline of being sure am going to use something before actually getting it. We live in a materialist world but do not have to agree with it. In this case am aware that, never having had an AWG have limited awareness of the possibilities so it's a hard one to evaluate.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: ebastler on April 08, 2019, 06:25:35 am
16bit DAC and better navigation seem "must haves" and the price is not off putting.

As much as I like the SDG2000 series (I did buy one!), there are some not-so-obvious limitations:

The stated maximum frequency (40 to 120 MHz) applies to sine waves only. Square wave output is limited to 25 MHz, and with 9 ns rise/fall times does not look very square at that frequency. The SDG1000 series actually has better square wave output, with 4ns rise time and 60 MHz maximum frequency. (But it's worse in pulse mode.) Also, the 1.2 GSa/s sample rate does not apply in Arb mode. It's worthwhile to study the datasheets carefully!

The 16 bit DAC and improved harmonic distortion specs vs. a 14 bit device are "real" and apply in all operating modes, it seems. But I have not yet encountered an application where I need that low distortion. For audio measurements, I use a sound card anyway, with 24 bit DAC and ADC.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: McBryce on April 08, 2019, 06:36:04 am
I keep wanting to get this machine.... then keep thinking won't use it enough.

Anyone give some clues or encouragement?!   :scared:

Even if you don't do projects that would required an AWG, they can still be quite useful for testing all sorts of equipment and they are also a great tool to get yourself accustomed to a new scope and it's features.

(was that a circular argument endorsing a new scope too??)

McBryce.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: k8943 on April 08, 2019, 12:37:34 pm
There is a bit of circular argument with scopes: my scope maxes at 100Mhz....

I guess one can get quite a bit done by using reference designs as building blocks that in turn eliminate a lot of the fundamental questions.

Interesting point about the specs on the 1000 series... Now thinking about that as well!
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Plasmateur on April 12, 2019, 01:06:38 am
Hello. Could anyone point me to someone on these forums who might now how to hack into this on a deeper level.

I don't want to unlock this device. I just want to program it so it can be remotely controlled to trigger both channels at the same time as well as sending out an AUX trigger.

I'm wondering if this is possible.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: pigrew on April 12, 2019, 01:17:44 am
Hello. Could anyone point me to someone on these forums who might now how to hack into this on a deeper level.

I don't want to unlock this device. I just want to program it so it can be remotely controlled to trigger both channels at the same time as well as sending out an AUX trigger.

I'm wondering if this is possible.
It's perfectly possible, but would likely require revision of the FPGA logic, and maybe sacrificing one unit in order to reverse-engineer the PCB. It would take quite a lot of time without having the original source files as most/all of the software would need to be rewritten (ASAIK disassembling a FPGA binary is generally not done). I don't have the available time or desire to do this, but could give you some pointers on how to proceed. I may even be able to XRay the analog PCB for you.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: ebastler on April 12, 2019, 04:25:00 am
I just want to program it so it can be remotely controlled to trigger both channels at the same time as well as sending out an AUX trigger.

I'm wondering if this is possible.

I'm not sure which aspect you can't achieve via standard setup of the SDG2042. Could you provide a bit more detail?

What would you want to use as the trigger input? There is a single AUX connector, which can either be the trigger input or an output. Or did you mean to trigger via the MTRIG SCPI command, which is equivalent to a manual trigger? If it is the latter, that should work without special trickery, I think (but have not tried).

Which leaves the "trigger both channels at the same time" part. I just had a quick look at my SDG2042X, and it seems possible to e.g. set up both channels in burst mode with a manual trigger, at the same time. Could you elaborate please? What do you want each channel to do, and could not convince the SDG to provide?

Finally, the trigger output you mentioned. Maybe that is where you run into a limitation? You should be able to get a sync output on the AUX jack, but with limitations (chapter 2.13.7 of the user manual). Again, could you please explain which signals you need on the main outputs, and on the AUX output?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Plasmateur on April 12, 2019, 05:32:51 am
It's perfectly possible, but would likely require revision of the FPGA logic, and maybe sacrificing one unit in order to reverse-engineer the PCB. It would take quite a lot of time without having the original source files as most/all of the software would need to be rewritten (ASAIK disassembling a FPGA binary is generally not done). I don't have the available time or desire to do this, but could give you some pointers on how to proceed. I may even be able to XRay the analog PCB for you.

Xray? Seriously? Wow. Well, to be honest I had no idea there would be that big of a learning curve. Is it possible to telenet into this thing and....I don't know if I'm using the right terminology here... image it? I thought this thing ran off of linux. I thought maybe it would be possible to set up a virtual machine on my computer and take a look at the code to see if I could understand it. It appear there is alot more to this than I thought. I don't want to take up too much of your time, but I am a little curious about learning how I might start to attempt this.




I'm not sure which aspect you can't achieve via standard setup of the SDG2042. Could you provide a bit more detail?

What would you want to use as the trigger input? There is a single AUX connector, which can either be the trigger input or an output. Or did you mean to trigger via the MTRIG SCPI command, which is equivalent to a manual trigger? If it is the latter, that should work without special trickery, I think (but have not tried).

Which leaves the "trigger both channels at the same time" part. I just had a quick look at my SDG2042X, and it seems possible to e.g. set up both channels in burst mode with a manual trigger, at the same time. Could you elaborate please? What do you want each channel to do, and could not convince the SDG to provide?

Finally, the trigger output you mentioned. Maybe that is where you run into a limitation? You should be able to get a sync output on the AUX jack, but with limitations (chapter 2.13.7 of the user manual). Again, could you please explain which signals you need on the main outputs, and on the AUX output?

The trigger input is being send via software.

I send it a command using SCPI code via pyvisa. The problem is, you can't trigger both ch.1 and ch.2 simultaneously unless channel coupling is enabled. Well, that's a problem because all you can do with that is vary the phase of each channel. The frequency, mode, delay, amplitude, cycles - all that stays the same. I would like to independently set each one of these, and then send a software trigger that would trigger both ch.1 and ch.2 simultaneously, Aux out would also send its trigger signal as well. - This is shown in the attached picture, but I had to do it using CH Copy Coupling. Only the phase is different.

Now, if you simply trigger the SDG2042X via external AUX, then you can trigger both ch.1 and ch.2 with all the independent features. The problem is, I don't have an expensive two output pulse delay generator with a 10MHz clock snyc at my house, which is what I would need in order to make time of flight measurements for an experiment I would like to try....as cheap as possible.

Edit: Try to trigger both channels at the same time with a manual trigger without using CH Copy Coupling. Not possible. Or attempt to program it. Wish it could unless the new firmware allows this. It didn't make any mention of it in the notes.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: jtruc34 on April 12, 2019, 06:05:41 am
The 1032X also can be 'improved' to 1062X model.  ;)

Since I own an SDG1032X, I'm curious to know how I could do that. There may be the answer in this thread, but it is very hard to find it through more than a thousand replies.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: ebastler on April 12, 2019, 06:13:51 am
Edit: Try to trigger both channels at the same time with a manual trigger without using CH Copy Coupling. Not possible. Or attempt to program it.

I just gave this a quick try: Both channels in burst mode with manual trigger, no channel coupling. Selected different amplitudes, frequencies, cycle counts on the two channels. I can use the "trigger" softkey in either channel 1 or 2, and it will trigger a burst in both channels. I can also enable the "Trig Out" option for either channel 1 or 2, and it will provide a rising or falling edge trigger on the AUX output.

My hardware version is 02-02-00-35-00, and firmware 2.01.01.23R8.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Plasmateur on April 12, 2019, 06:41:44 am
Edit: Try to trigger both channels at the same time with a manual trigger without using CH Copy Coupling. Not possible. Or attempt to program it.

I just gave this a quick try: Both channels in burst mode with manual trigger, no channel coupling. Selected different amplitudes, frequencies, cycle counts on the two channels. I can use the "trigger" softkey in either channel 1 or 2, and it will trigger a burst in both channels. I can also enable the "Trig Out" option for either channel 1 or 2, and it will provide a rising or falling edge trigger on the AUX output.

My hardware version is 02-02-00-35-00, and firmware 2.01.01.23R8.

I can confirm. I can also do this. I went into Utilities, System, Set to default. Attempted again and was able to produce the same results.

The problem still remains. Why can't this be done through a SCPI command? The manual -> http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Documents/Program_Material/SDG_ProgrammingGuide_PG_E03B.pdf (http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Documents/Program_Material/SDG_ProgrammingGuide_PG_E03B.pdf)

states only CH1 or CH2 can be sent a trigger. But not both at the same time.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Plasmateur on April 12, 2019, 07:00:05 am
Edit: Try to trigger both channels at the same time with a manual trigger without using CH Copy Coupling. Not possible. Or attempt to program it.

I just gave this a quick try: Both channels in burst mode with manual trigger, no channel coupling. Selected different amplitudes, frequencies, cycle counts on the two channels. I can use the "trigger" softkey in either channel 1 or 2, and it will trigger a burst in both channels. I can also enable the "Trig Out" option for either channel 1 or 2, and it will provide a rising or falling edge trigger on the AUX output.

My hardware version is 02-02-00-35-00, and firmware 2.01.01.23R8.

EDIT: I can do it with SCPI command.

Whenever I had attempted to do this in the past. I must have had something wrong in the code. Thanks for pushing me to double check. This is great!

Now I just need to be able to do burst and sweep at the same time without having to use a high pass filter.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on April 12, 2019, 07:14:21 am
The 1032X also can be 'improved' to 1062X model.  ;)

Since I own an SDG1032X, I'm curious to know how I could do that. There may be the answer in this thread, but it is very hard to find it through more than a thousand replies.
SDG1000X models have their own thread and the info you seek is there:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1000x-waveform-generators/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1000x-waveform-generators/)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: ebastler on April 13, 2019, 06:38:40 am
Now I just need to be able to do burst and sweep at the same time without having to use a high pass filter.

You have piqued my curiosity there, and with your earlier mention of time-of-flight measurements. Would you mind describing what experiment you have in mind? Thanks!
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Plasmateur on April 13, 2019, 07:23:26 pm
Now I just need to be able to do burst and sweep at the same time without having to use a high pass filter.

You have piqued my curiosity there, and with your earlier mention of time-of-flight measurements. Would you mind describing what experiment you have in mind? Thanks!

Sure.

Let's say you have some gas-like medium with a really high index of refraction with respect to an electromagnetic wave with a particular frequency propagating though this medium. Well, then it's fairly easy to map out the propagating electromagnetic field topology, and play it as a movie.

Why? 30MHz has a freespace wavelength of around 10meters. But in a medium with a high index of refraction, that wavelength can shrink down to centimeters as the speed of propagation is slowed down to some percentage of the speed of light.

Sweet. So how do we go about mapping out this time varying electric/magnetic field within the gas-like medium?

Have one antenna as your exciter which is connected to a SDG2042X and another one that is connected to an oscilloscope and mounted to a 2D or 3D movable stage. The SDG2042X will send a sinwave with some amount of cycles to the exciting antenna.

Everytime you trigger your SDG2042X via a software trigger, the AUX out will trigger the oscilloscope, while the other channel on the scope will capture the electric/magnetic field seen by the receiving antenna. As you begin to move the receiving antenna away from the exciter, you will notice an increasing distance between the AUX trigger and the beginning of the sinwave pulse seen on your scope.

You can then use all the data collected, which is a function of position and time, to reconstructed the electromagnetic field topology, and watch it evolve in time.

If you have a few horn antennas, this is pretty easy to do in free space with a high enough frequency. But the equipment will cost you a fortune.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: ebastler on April 14, 2019, 04:18:37 pm
Let's say you have some gas-like medium with a really high index of refraction with respect to an electromagnetic wave with a particular frequency propagating though this medium. Well, then it's fairly easy to map out the propagating electromagnetic field topology, and play it as a movie.

Why? 30MHz has a freespace wavelength of around 10meters. But in a medium with a high index of refraction, that wavelength can shrink down to centimeters as the speed of propagation is slowed down to some percentage of the speed of light.

Ah, thank you! And I assume the gas-ike medium, true to your user name and prior project, is a plasma?  :)

I have no experience with that branch of physics at all. What dielectric constants, and hence wavelengths, do you obtain? If you get the wavelength down to centimeters, doesn't that still imply a rather sizeable plasma (for a homebuilt system?) if you want to obtain a meaningful spatial map of the propagation?

Back to the SDG2042X, what capability is missing which you need for your measurements? Are you looking for an envelope to modulate your burst amplitude, for a soft start and decay? (Maybe using a modulated continuous sine wave would work better?) Or you could store a modulated wavetrain, with the desired number of cycles, in AWG memory and play it just once?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: panman on April 15, 2019, 02:03:54 pm
Looking to capture frequency counter statistics via SCPI in either graphical form (screen capture) or numerical form (individual frequencies). Per the programming manual, FCNT? provides some information including the current frequency readings. It does not provide statistical info like the min/max frequencies and the standard deviation. It also appears as there is no SCPI command that can be used to capture the screen display which could also be used to snapshot the data.

Anyone had any luck capturing this data via SCPI? Failing that there is always the cell phone camera :-DD

Thanks, Ron
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Plasmateur on April 16, 2019, 03:50:54 am

Ah, thank you! And I assume the gas-ike medium, true to your user name and prior project, is a plasma?  :)

I have no experience with that branch of physics at all. What dielectric constants, and hence wavelengths, do you obtain? If you get the wavelength down to centimeters, doesn't that still imply a rather sizeable plasma (for a homebuilt system?) if you want to obtain a meaningful spatial map of the propagation?

Back to the SDG2042X, what capability is missing which you need for your measurements? Are you looking for an envelope to modulate your burst amplitude, for a soft start and decay? (Maybe using a modulated continuous sine wave would work better?) Or you could store a modulated wavetrain, with the desired number of cycles, in AWG memory and play it just once?

Yep. It would be a plasma. And some wavelengths (depending on the type of plasma wave) can be on to order of micrometers, so you need a pretty high resolution positioning system, and precision diagnostics to map those out. My homebrew system is still missing some components I can't find for cheap - turbo molecular pump. But I have about a cubic centimeter to work with in the lab if a static magnetic field isn't applied.

I've already done the experiments in the lab a few years ago (using a SDG2042X triggered off a DG535), but I'd like to be able to repeat some of them at home with some modification to them. As of now, I can pretty much do everything now that I figured out what was wrong with my code and knowing I can just add a high pass filter to the SDG2042X when I want to do a "burst sweep".

Sure, the sweep can be triggered on the SDG2042X, but before the trigger, a sinusoid is still output from the device. I can't have that before the experiments start. As you said, I could store a modulate wave train, but that would take some time to program each one. Also, when I attempted to generate a two frequency sinusoid with the Easywave, the intermod products, or the sidebands that I observed on a spectrum analyzer appeared to much much higher than when just combining two channels.

On other short coming is that the sweep time cannot be lower than 1ms. Again, this can be remedied with a high pass filter, but you also don't get the full peak at the start of the sweep wavetrain. No biggie considering this device is just so much better and so much cheaper than the 33250A (keysight/agilent) signal generator for almost a tenth of the cost.

.....As for my DS1054Z oscilloscope, I really wish there was a trigger channel that could be used so my sampling rate wouldn't halve when making this measurement.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: k8943 on April 16, 2019, 07:36:10 am
.....As for my DS1054Z oscilloscope, I really wish there was a trigger channel that could be used so my sampling rate wouldn't halve when making this measurement.

Might it be possible to send the trigger signal to the same channel of the scope that is used for the measurement? If the pulse duration from AUX out is too long then maybe a pulse waveform from the second channel of the AWG?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: voltsandjolts on April 16, 2019, 08:29:07 am
Also, when I attempted to generate a two frequency sinusoid with the Easywave, the intermod products, or the sidebands that I observed on a spectrum analyzer appeared to much much higher than when just combining two channels.

Just in case Easywave was causing issues there, you could double check by creating the two-tone wave in another way.
I wrote a simple script for GNU Octave to create arb waves in Siglent CSV format. The included example is a two tone sine.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1000-arbitrary-csv-file-format/msg1973726/#msg1973726 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1000-arbitrary-csv-file-format/msg1973726/#msg1973726)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: ebastler on April 16, 2019, 09:29:22 am
...

Just in case Easywave was causing issues there, you could double check by creating the two-tone wave in another way.
I wrote a simple script for GNU Octave to create arb waves in Siglent CSV format. The included example is a two tone sine.

You got the quote attribution mixed up, it was plasmateur who ran into problems with the Easywave-generated waveform. But I second your recommendation to use a different tool to generate the samples. I have not become friends with EasyWave, and have simply used Excel to generate wave samples and export them as CSV.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: voltsandjolts on April 16, 2019, 09:46:16 am
Oops, fixed, thanks.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Rerouter on April 16, 2019, 11:13:49 am
For the burst and sweep mode you can set each channel up to use the external trigger, now I don't own that model to test that it works, but by using an external AUX trigger you may be able to accomplish what your trying to do
You tee off that aux trigger to the scope and I think that would meet your requirements.

I should point out you can use this to both burst and sweep arbitary waveforms,
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: colorado.rob on April 16, 2019, 02:58:46 pm
It also appears as there is no SCPI command that can be used to capture the screen display which could also be used to snapshot the data.

Anyone had any luck capturing this data via SCPI? Failing that there is always the cell phone camera :-DD

The SDG2000X uses the same screen dump command as all Siglent gear.  I have screen dumps via SCPI from SDS, SDG, SDM and SSA devices.

https://gist.github.com/mobilinkd/8a07cc124946c87715c6a1458118411e

Just point it at your AWG and give it a shot.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: 2N3055 on April 16, 2019, 03:03:03 pm
For the burst and sweep mode you can set each channel up to use the external trigger, now I don't own that model to test that it works, but by using an external AUX trigger you may be able to accomplish what your trying to do
You tee off that aux trigger to the scope and I think that would meet your requirements.

I should point out you can use this to both burst and sweep arbitary waveforms,

Problem is that you cannot burst and sweep at the same time. He needs to go from no signal to sweep to zero signal.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Plasmateur on April 17, 2019, 05:32:14 am
Also, when I attempted to generate a two frequency sinusoid with the Easywave, the intermod products, or the sidebands that I observed on a spectrum analyzer appeared to much much higher than when just combining two channels.

Just in case Easywave was causing issues there, you could double check by creating the two-tone wave in another way.
I wrote a simple script for GNU Octave to create arb waves in Siglent CSV format. The included example is a two tone sine.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1000-arbitrary-csv-file-format/msg1973726/#msg1973726 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1000-arbitrary-csv-file-format/msg1973726/#msg1973726)

I'll give your code a shot.

I also tried to generate a CSV with Matlab, and found the sidebands to be higher than just combining two channels.

I'll probably end up running your code and finding out I was bad at generating a CSV. Thanks!
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bicycleguy on May 08, 2019, 04:31:52 pm
Anyone having problems with the PowerOn Last feature?

Supposed to startup up with last used settings.  Sometimes does, usually not and many times comes up with defective waveforms as attached, that can only be fixed by toggling Utility/Mode/Phase Locked and Independent.

Settings that don't seem to be saved are random, frequency, phase lock, waveform ect.  The defective waveforms don't seem to correspond with what's in channel 2.

ver 2.01.01.23R8
hw 02-02-00-35-00

Here's a 40Mz sine wave:

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=729738)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: gammaburst on May 25, 2019, 11:02:54 am
Bricking alert!

My unit was running perfectly fine until did the following:

1) Firmware upgrade 22R5 => 23R3 (http://www.siglent.com/ENs/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=1880&tid=15), after successful upgrade just continued to use and did following:
2) Used EasyWave to send 8pts wfm, played around with DDS/TrueArb setting etc. Turned unit off while custom wfm was loaded.

Next day unit now shows blank screen after logo. Controls non-responsive. Parameter button is lit. Not recognized as USB device. But LAN shows functional login screen. Do not know user/pass.

:-// Since did 2 things first time (not used EW before) cannot be sure which activity bricked it. My first idea would be delete custom wfm. Maybe loading it at boot bricks it. But cannot get in....

Ordered online from siglent.eu quite a hassle sending it back etc... Since LAN is working maybe there is some trick to resurrect it? Can firmware be upgraded / downgraded over LAN? Reset procedure? Telnet user / pass?

I realize MrW0lf's message is 2 years old, but I'd like to share my somewhat similar bricking experience and solution.

A couple hours ago I bricked my SDG2042X (modified long ago to SDG2122X by using patched 23R7 firmware and modified XML file). Today I was trying to upload a waveform into the instrument by using low-level SCPI over TCP without needing any NI or Siglent software. I accidentally fumbled my code, resulting in a zero-length waveform stored in the instrument, and then I power-cycled the instrument to clear its stuck TCP state. Bricked! During power-up it displayed the logo for about 25 seconds, then several LED flash briefly, then the LCD goes blank forever.

I unbricked the instrument by connecting via telnet (thanks to the patched firmware), moved into /usr/bin/siglent/usr/usr, deleted my bogus zero-length waveform, power-cycled the instrument, and now it boots fine. Whew!

Maybe that will be helpful to someone else.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on May 25, 2019, 11:13:12 am
@ gammaburst
 :phew:
Thanks for sharing your recovery method. :clap: 
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bicycleguy on May 25, 2019, 04:05:44 pm
@ gammaburst
I guess that only works for 23R7 since password required  for 23R8 and usual USB boot wouldn't work?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: helge on June 13, 2019, 12:01:36 pm
This seems to be the right thread for the  :wtf: I'm having with my new SDG2082X running FW 2.01.01.23R8

I got it to replace the trusty SDG1050 with its limited output voltage and pulse width, but the "invert" behaves substantially different in the SDG2000 series:

Attached are two "pulse" waveforms when invert is switched with active output.

I'm observing the following behavior:
SDG1050 "invert output" == invert waveform pattern, respecting low and high voltage values as definitive
SDG2082X "invert output" == invert analog output voltage, treating "high voltage" only as an amplitude

is there a way to get the "invert pattern" separately from "invert output"?

I'm definitely running into changed paradigms here and not feeling the love for calculating the complementary pulse width each time.

ps. tested 10µs inverted pulses by period:40ms, pulse width 39.99ms, but then the signal is low for a couple of seconds in burst mode (also differing from the previous interpretation.

pps. the logical solution would have been to define LOW 3V and HIGH as 0V, but for no reason whatsoever the firmware enforces HIGH level > LOW level.

ppps. with the new output stage design, the DC bias option is also gone, so I cannot just set it to +5V and have 0V / -5V pulses. Come on, Siglent :/

Someone please explain.



Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: helge on June 13, 2019, 02:01:10 pm
turns out the new way to invert a pattern with
low level == 0V, high level == 3V

is to set
low level == -3V, high level == 0V, output invert == on




... still looks funny with the "-3V" on there while the output is >= 0V at all times. I'm not sure this is the best way to implement pattern inversion.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: colorado.rob on June 13, 2019, 02:09:56 pm
I have to say that is surprising.  When I press "invert output" I expect it to behave as if the low/high values are swapped.  That's it.  I understand there is a work-around, but outputing voltages outside the limits specified is -- IMO -- wrong.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: exe on June 14, 2019, 02:15:51 pm
Interesting, for me "invert" is how SDG20xxX do it: mirror the signal on X axis.

What was not OK for me is that the waveform on the display remained the same, there was no indication on the display about invertion. So, I once fed in the circuit with negative voltage without even knowing it until I measured the output. I spent a lot of time to figure what the problem was, as well phantom "output overloaded" errors. Fortunately, both DUT and the signal gen survived it.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on June 15, 2019, 09:02:03 am
This is how it looks from my SDG1032X......much as I would expect.

Default outputs are of + amplitudes.
Following screenshots captured with Single shot trigger.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=763317)
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=763335)
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=763323)

Outputs set to 0V as low level:

0V low level inverted:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=763341)
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=763329)

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: rf-loop on June 15, 2019, 10:24:47 am
It is extremely simple.
 
Inverting -1V is +1V.


Function is NOT waveform invert between its top and bottom. Function is OUTPUT invert.
It also works with DC.  Set output for +1Vdc and after you select output invert result is -1V.

If user have example pulses: from -5V upwards to -4V and then he invert instrument output he must get - and he get - narrow pulses from +5V downward to +4v.
This is why also this INVERT is in OUTPUT menu.

If user waveform is symmetric related to 0V then it is special case and output invert = waveform invert.

If there is special waveform invert  imho its right place is in waveform or wfm parameter menu. Then this kind of invert works so that in prev example original is so that from -5V narrow up pulses to -4V  and then result is narrow down pulses from -4V to -5V. And there is not at all this selection.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: helge on June 15, 2019, 11:14:48 am
If there is special waveform invert  imho its right place is in waveform or wfm parameter menu. Then this kind of invert works so that in prev example original is so that from -5V narrow up pulses to -4V  and then result is narrow down pulses from -4V to -5V. And there is not at all this selection.

Yes - this is the invert feature SDG1050 provides, though it mixes up the two, and this is the feature I would have wanted to use to produce a complementary waveform. They could even call it "complementary waveform" to avoid any confusion with "invert output".

Besides that, there should be an indicator showing the output states (ON/OFF, NORM/INV).
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: rf-loop on June 15, 2019, 11:53:27 am
If there is special waveform invert  imho its right place is in waveform or wfm parameter menu. Then this kind of invert works so that in prev example original is so that from -5V narrow up pulses to -4V  and then result is narrow down pulses from -4V to -5V. And there is not at all this selection.

Yes - this is the invert feature SDG1050 provides, though it mixes up the two, and this is the feature I would have wanted to use to produce a complementary waveform. They could even call it "complementary waveform" to avoid any confusion with "invert output".

Besides that, there should be an indicator showing the output states (ON/OFF, NORM/INV).

Only need add this to Siglent FW development team wishlist.
Keep OUTPUT invert as it is.
ADD  waveform invert function (Invert between its top and bottom value).
 
Add some clear information to display what tell to user about wfm invert on/off  and output invert on/off independent of what selection/setup menu is visible.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: exe on June 15, 2019, 12:24:46 pm
Add some clear information to display what tell to user about wfm invert on/off  and output invert on/off independent of what selection/setup menu is visible.

I'd say just showing the actual waveform would be enough, if that's possible.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: colorado.rob on July 04, 2019, 07:56:46 pm
I am trying to automate the modulation of a sinusoidal carrier with a custom waveform.  According to the programming manual, this is possible.

This command sets up a modulated DSB-AM carrier with an arbitrary (ARB) modulating wave shape (MDSP)
Code: [Select]
C1:MDWV DSBAM,MDSP,ARB
However, nowhere in the programming manual does it explain how to set the arbitrary waveform used for modulation.

The obvious command only sets the arbitrary waveform for the carrier, and has no impact on the modulating waveform.

Code: [Select]
C1:ARWV NAME,custom
And the specific modulating waveform being used is not reported when querying the state of the channel.

Code: [Select]
C1:MDWV?
C1:MDWV STATE,ON,DSBAM,MDSP,ARB,SRC,INT,FRQ,0.1610824742HZ,CARR,WVTP,SINE,FRQ,28121000HZ,AMP,0.1V,AMPVRMS,0.03535Vrms,AMPDBM,-16.0219dBm,OFST,0V,PHSE,0

Does anyone know how one would, via SCPI, set the waveform used for modulating a carrier on the SDG2000X?

Is there a "complete" list of commands used by Siglent's AWG (including the undocumented ones) floating around?  I have found the one for their 'scopes to be a necessity when doing any sort of automation.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tv84 on July 04, 2019, 08:00:13 pm
rerouter is the specialist in that field.  (Siglent's SCPI commands)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Rerouter on July 05, 2019, 08:52:11 am
You command seems a little corrupted, have not looked into exactly why but it is interpriting DSBAM as AM for unclear reasons

The best reference going for the normal waveform commands is here,
http://www.siglent.com/2014EnglishWebsite/Documents/others/SDG800_RemoteControlManual_RC02008-E02A.pdf (http://www.siglent.com/2014EnglishWebsite/Documents/others/SDG800_RemoteControlManual_RC02008-E02A.pdf)

Also my own reference sheet is attached, Its a little hard to parse at times, So I prefer mine to remind you what you need to give for each.


For Reference this is what your command returns as
C1:MDWV

STATE,ON,

AM,
   MDSP,ARB,INDEX,0,
   SRC,INT,
   FRQ,0.1610824742HZ,
   DEPTH,100,
CARR,
   WVTP,SINE,
   FRQ,0.1610824742HZ,
   AMP,0.1V,
   AMPVRMS,0.03535Vrms,
   OFST,0V,
   PHSE,0
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Rerouter on July 05, 2019, 09:06:41 am
Ok, so you can set the Carrier via

C1:MDWV CARR, WVTP, ARB

However It is not clear how to select which arb waveform as it does not return an index or a name

C1:MDWV DSBAM, MDSP, ARB, INDEX, 2

This I thought should work, however It also does not appear to let you select the arbwave index,

Edit 1:
OK, you can set the ARBwave, of the carrier, but it looks like you need to use the UI to accomplish it for whatever reason,
Utilitiy Page 4 - AWG - Wave - Arb Type

Edit 2:
For whatever reason the Arb wave of the carrier can be read off, (and probably set before hand) using the ARWV command
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: colorado.rob on July 05, 2019, 05:47:32 pm
You command seems a little corrupted, have not looked into exactly why but it is interpriting DSBAM as AM for unclear reasons

I am not sure what you mean by that.  It works on the SDG2122X with firmware V2.01.01.23R3.

Quote
The best reference going for the normal waveform commands is here,
http://www.siglent.com/2014EnglishWebsite/Documents/others/SDG800_RemoteControlManual_RC02008-E02A.pdf (http://www.siglent.com/2014EnglishWebsite/Documents/others/SDG800_RemoteControlManual_RC02008-E02A.pdf)

Also my own reference sheet is attached, Its a little hard to parse at times, So I prefer mine to remind you what you need to give for each.

Both of these seem horribly out of date.  The reference is for the SDG-800 and doesn't cover the capabilities of the X-series AWGs.

Quote
For Reference this is what your command returns as
C1:MDWV

STATE,ON,

AM,
   MDSP,ARB,INDEX,0,
   SRC,INT,
   FRQ,0.1610824742HZ,
   DEPTH,100,
CARR,
   WVTP,SINE,
   FRQ,0.1610824742HZ,
   AMP,0.1V,
   AMPVRMS,0.03535Vrms,
   OFST,0V,
   PHSE,0

What device and firmware version are you running?  The output I reported is formatted the way that the programming manual describes.  The reference I am using is http://www.siglentamerica.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2017/11/SDG_ProgrammingGuide_PG_E03B.pdf. (http://www.siglentamerica.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2017/11/SDG_ProgrammingGuide_PG_E03B.pdf.)  The format of the output I see matches page 23 of that document.  There is no ARB INDEX reported.  And for custom waveforms, they can only be referred to by name on the 2000X.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: colorado.rob on July 05, 2019, 06:08:24 pm
Ok, so you can set the Carrier via

C1:MDWV CARR, WVTP, ARB

However It is not clear how to select which arb waveform as it does not return an index or a name

C1:MDWV DSBAM, MDSP, ARB, INDEX, 2

This I thought should work, however It also does not appear to let you select the arbwave index,

Edit 1:
OK, you can set the ARBwave, of the carrier, but it looks like you need to use the UI to accomplish it for whatever reason,
Utilitiy Page 4 - AWG - Wave - Arb Type

Edit 2:
For whatever reason the Arb wave of the carrier can be read off, (and probably set before hand) using the ARWV command

It sounds like you ended up in the same spot that I did.  I can hack through it by using the VKEY commands, but that's just horrible.  It is way too slow to meet my needs.

The first thing I tried was:

Code: [Select]
C1:MDWV DSBAM,MDSP,ARB,NAME,custom
Which is what I would hope would work.  As you found, there's no clearly documented way to do this.  I have a support email in to Siglent USA, but it's likely they are away for a long holiday weekend.

I may try upgrading my firmware to see if Siglent managed to sneak in a few new undocumented SCPI features since R3.  I will likely use the hacked firmware so I can scan the installed binaries for SCPI hints.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: ebastler on July 05, 2019, 06:50:47 pm
Have you tried selecting an unmodulated Arb waveform first, via the ARWV command, then setting a modulated mode with the parameter-less ARB as the modulation source? Maybe the SDG remembers the last used Arb waveform and uses that for modulation?

Just a wild guess -- I don't have my SDG2042X here at the moment. And you might have said in your first post on this topic that you tried this without effect; not sure I understood that part right.

Edit: A related question: When you set the MDWV mode via "C1:MDWV DSBAM,MDSP,ARB", which Arb waveform does the generator use as the modulation source?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: colorado.rob on July 05, 2019, 07:57:32 pm
Have you tried selecting an unmodulated Arb waveform first, via the ARWV command, then setting a modulated mode with the parameter-less ARB as the modulation source? Maybe the SDG remembers the last used Arb waveform and uses that for modulation?

Yes, of course.

Code: [Select]
>>C1:ARWV?
C1:ARWV NAME,custom.bin
>>>>C1:MDWV?
C1:MDWV STATE,ON,DSBAM,MDSP,ARB,SRC,INT,FRQ,0.1610824742HZ,CARR,WVTP,SINE,FRQ,28121000HZ,AMP,0.005V,AMPVRMS,0.0017675Vrms,OFST,0V,PHSE,0

Quote
Just a wild guess -- I don't have my SDG2042X here at the moment. And you might have said in your first post on this topic that you tried this without effect; not sure I understood that part right.

I thought that I mentioned that I tried this.

Quote
Edit: A related question: When you set the MDWV mode via "C1:MDWV DSBAM,MDSP,ARB", which Arb waveform does the generator use as the modulation source?

The first one in its list of internal waveforms: StairUp.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=778098)

Or the last one selected manually by going into "arb:arb:..." from the modulation screen.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: colorado.rob on July 05, 2019, 08:39:37 pm
I was just trolling through the SDG2000X firmware and noticed the name "BK Precsion" [sic].  I had not seen that mentioned here in relation to the Siglent AWGs.  A quick look a the BK Precision website shows a number of AWGs that look a lot like our Siglent here.  Judging by the specs, they are not 2000X models (500MSps/14-bit).  But there is little doubt Siglent made a bunch of their current models.

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on July 05, 2019, 08:57:47 pm
I was just trolling through the SDG2000X firmware and noticed the name "BK Precsion" [sic].  I had not seen that mentioned here in relation to the Siglent AWGs.  A quick look a the BK Precision website shows a number of AWGs that look a lot like our Siglent here.  Judging by the specs, they are not 2000X models (500MSps/14-bit).  But there is little doubt Siglent made a bunch of their current models.
SDG1000X models.
A few other Siglent rebrands listed in this thread:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/remember-when-siglents-logo-wasnt-ugly/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/remember-when-siglents-logo-wasnt-ugly/)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: avp1 on July 08, 2019, 03:30:33 am
I tried to search, but could not find an answer: is it possible to use one channel of SDG2042X as a modulation source for other channel without running a cable from its output to AUX input? If it is - what are the appropriate menu options to configure that?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bdunham7 on July 08, 2019, 03:40:52 am
I was just trolling through the SDG2000X firmware and noticed the name "BK Precsion" [sic].  I had not seen that mentioned here in relation to the Siglent AWGs.  A quick look a the BK Precision website shows a number of AWGs that look a lot like our Siglent here.  Judging by the specs, they are not 2000X models (500MSps/14-bit).  But there is little doubt Siglent made a bunch of their current models.

BK sells some nice stuff, but I don't think they make any of it anymore.  Some of their very old legacy products are their orginal design but manufactured for them by somebody in Taiwan.  The rest of their line comes from wherever.  The one I haven't figured out yet is their 1856D counter from South Korea.  Anyone know who makes it?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: jjoonathan on July 08, 2019, 04:31:36 am
What about their AC power supplies? I've wanted something like this for a while:

https://www.bkprecision.com/products/power-supplies/9801-programmable-ac-power-source.html (https://www.bkprecision.com/products/power-supplies/9801-programmable-ac-power-source.html)

but the price was a bit hard to justify. If it's just a rebrand and is available somewhere else for cheaper, I'd be delighted!  ;D
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: McBryce on July 08, 2019, 06:51:18 am
What about their AC power supplies? I've wanted something like this for a while:

https://www.bkprecision.com/products/power-supplies/9801-programmable-ac-power-source.html (https://www.bkprecision.com/products/power-supplies/9801-programmable-ac-power-source.html)

but the price was a bit hard to justify. If it's just a rebrand and is available somewhere else for cheaper, I'd be delighted!  ;D


Hmmm, looks suspiciously like an iTech IT7321 :)

https://www.itechcanada.ca/products/ac-source/it7300-series/it7321/ (https://www.itechcanada.ca/products/ac-source/it7300-series/it7321/)

Usually Maynuo do clones with the same family of labels, but they don't seem to have released one yet.

McBryce.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Performa01 on July 08, 2019, 08:11:53 am
I tried to search, but could not find an answer: is it possible to use one channel of SDG2042X as a modulation source for other channel without running a cable from its output to AUX input? If it is - what are the appropriate menu options to configure that?
No, it's not possible to use one channel as the modulation source for another without an external connection, nor is it required.

Whenever using modulation, you have a separate internal DDS modulation source for each channel, which provides all the standard waveforms including noise and arbitrary. So you have effectively two independent modulated channels, each with its own internal fully fledged modulation source.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: n3mmr on July 13, 2019, 10:39:16 am
Can an sdg2000x use a sinewave as an external clock source?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: rf-loop on July 13, 2019, 01:11:22 pm
Can an sdg2000x use a sinewave as an external clock source?

Yes.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: n3mmr on July 13, 2019, 05:02:45 pm
Can an sdg2000x use a sinewave as an external clock source?

Yes.

Is there any advantage or disadvantage to using sine or square wave?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Performa01 on July 13, 2019, 05:19:45 pm
Is there any advantage or disadvantage to using sine or square wave?
The answer depends on the internal architecture.

I haven't tried it on the Siglent SDG yet, but in most other cases (AWGs and RF-signal generators) high spectral purity and low phase noise of the output signal could only be achieved with a pure sine wave as reference signal in my experience. So my general rule is using the purest possible sinewave as reference for any form of signal generators, whereas a squarewave is fine for digital gear like frequency counters.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: n3mmr on July 13, 2019, 05:54:51 pm
Is there any advantage or disadvantage to using sine or square wave?
The answer depends on the internal architecture.

I haven't tried it on the Siglent SDG yet, but in most other cases (AWGs and RF-signal generators) high spectral purity and low phase noise of the output signal could only be achieved with a pure sine wave as reference signal in my experience. So my general rule is using the purest possible sinewave as reference for any form of signal generators, whereas a squarewave is fine for digital gear like frequency counters.

Clear as Vodka!
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bson on July 13, 2019, 06:36:51 pm
Is there any advantage or disadvantage to using sine or square wave?
Square waves don't go well with transmission lines.  A single frequency sinusoidal is much easier to transmit cleanly.  The receiver can then schmitt trigger it and do whatever it needs to to phase lock a VCO to it.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bdunham7 on July 14, 2019, 09:54:03 pm
I have a simple question that I can't find answer to in the manual--how do you turn the modulation function OFF???  It seems that once on it stays on....
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: JDubU on July 15, 2019, 12:50:23 am
I have a simple question that I can't find answer to in the manual--how do you turn the modulation function OFF???  It seems that once on it stays on....

Push the modulation button again.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bdunham7 on July 15, 2019, 02:55:23 am
I have a simple question that I can't find answer to in the manual--how do you turn the modulation function OFF???  It seems that once on it stays on....

Push the modulation button again.

OK, I swear that wasn't working when I tried it.  But it does now!  I'll have to try and reproduce the issue and see if there's a bug.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: ebastler on July 15, 2019, 05:26:58 am
I haven't tried it on the Siglent SDG yet, but in most other cases (AWGs and RF-signal generators) high spectral purity and low phase noise of the output signal could only be achieved with a pure sine wave as reference signal in my experience. So my general rule is using the purest possible sinewave as reference for any form of signal generators, whereas a squarewave is fine for digital gear like frequency counters.

Is that really so? Today's function generators and AWGs are "digital gear" too. Do they really care about the harmonics in a square trigger signal, as long as the edges are well-defined?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Performa01 on July 15, 2019, 10:00:36 am
I haven't tried it on the Siglent SDG yet, but in most other cases (AWGs and RF-signal generators) high spectral purity and low phase noise of the output signal could only be achieved with a pure sine wave as reference signal in my experience. So my general rule is using the purest possible sinewave as reference for any form of signal generators, whereas a squarewave is fine for digital gear like frequency counters.

Is that really so? Today's function generators and AWGs are "digital gear" too. Do they really care about the harmonics in a square trigger signal, as long as the edges are well-defined?
You are right, it sounds odd and you would think it should not matter for a digital PLL.

The problem with square wave signals is that they usually come from some digital circuitry, where the propagation delay and switching times are not absolutely constant due to crosstalk and noise. This is why pure signals with low phase noise require a continuous (sine) wave reference rather than a switched (digital) signal with its unavoidable jitter components.

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: radiolistener on July 15, 2019, 04:00:09 pm
The problem with square wave signals is that they usually come from some digital circuitry, where the propagation delay and switching times are not absolutely constant due to crosstalk and noise. This is why pure signals with low phase noise require a continuous (sine) wave reference rather than a switched (digital) signal with its unavoidable jitter components.

sine wave has slow slope, it means that slope will move through zero level very slowly and if there is any small amplitude noise, it will leads to jitter. Square wave has fast slope, so it moving through zero level very fast and small amplitude noise doesn't affects it much. Isn't it?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Performa01 on July 17, 2019, 01:39:09 pm
sine wave has slow slope, it means that slope will move through zero level very slowly and if there is any small amplitude noise, it will leads to jitter. Square wave has fast slope, so it moving through zero level very fast and small amplitude noise doesn't affects it much. Isn't it?
That’s a valid objection for PLL systems using a digital phase detector (XOR gate or flipflop). But with analog phase detectors (double balanced mixer), a sine wave is certainly more suitable. That’s why I've initially stated that it depends on the architecture.

Devices for which phase noise isn't much of a concern, like DSOs or frequency counters, often have nothing more than a simple TTL level digital input for the reference clock.

Apart from that, the sine wave always has the advantage of avoiding RFI. A fast risetime square wave might leak into the instrument and even radiate through (lower cost) shielded cables, hence polluting not only the instrument it's connected to but the entire lab.

The only way to find the ultimate answer to what provides the cleaner output for a particular instrument is to try it out…
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: n3mmr on July 18, 2019, 09:11:29 am
The only way to find the ultimate answer to what provides the cleaner output for a particular instrument is to try it out…

Would you consider trying it out on an sdg2000x series unit?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: TurboTom on July 18, 2019, 01:58:43 pm
I can offer some measurements for the SDG6000X AWG.

To cut a long story short, for virtually all practical applications, the shape of the reference signal makes no difference.

For those who are interested in the boring details  ;), here's some more information on what I did:

I used my Rb frequency standard (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/made-a-nice-_home_-for-my-efratom-lpro-101/msg1250122/#msg1250122) based on a LPRO101 oscillator that provides a very good sine, and my homebrewn buffer / square trigger circuitry, as a reference.

It provides a sine output level of +7dBm. Alternatively, I used the 5V TTL square output. Both outputs have an impedance of approx. 50 ohms.

This signal was fed directly to the REF input of the SDG6000X via an RG58 cable of approx. 90cm length without additional termination at the SDG end.

The SDG6000X was configured to provide a 10.1MHz sine on channel 1 to an SSA3000X spectrum analyzer which was running on its internal reference. I always did three measurements:

- Trace A external sine reference
- Trace B external square reference
- Trace C internal reference

The attached screenshots of the SSA are self-explanatory by the file names though not really interesting. No intermodulation or the like could be observed, the worst that happens is a slight coupling of the harmonics of the REF signal to the output in the frequency ranges of 50~250MHz and then a little stronger around 1GHz. Considering the "forest" of peaks the SDG6000X produces when running on the internal reference, and the absolute amplitude of this noise which is close to -90dBm (except the clock feedthrough at 2.4GHz which is more like -70dBm), it's not worth worrying about.

FYI, I also recorded a set of traces with the output disabled which almost didn't change a thing. In this screenshot, I also added a fourth trace (D) with the generator completely powered down.

A test with the modulation domain analyzer (sorry for the crappy photos...) revealed a very slight improvement of the jitter / phase noise (standard deviation) if a square wave is used as a reference signal. An external sine ref signal and the internal reference are on par to each other once the instument has reached thermal equilibrium (except for the absolute frequency accuracy of course).

If all this information is also valid for the SDG2000X series is something that I cannot answer. So maybe someone who owns this AWG and the additional required gear may want to repeat the tests?

Cheers,
Thomas


Edit: Messed up one of the MDA photos...
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Performa01 on July 18, 2019, 03:25:50 pm
The only way to find the ultimate answer to what provides the cleaner output for a particular instrument is to try it out…

Would you consider trying it out on an sdg2000x series unit?
Sorry, I don't have an SDG2000X, but I'm pretty confident that the basic circuit architecture is the same as for the SDG6000X, hence Turbo Tom's results will be valid for the entire SDG-X product range, even for SDG1000X.

If I interpret the test results correctly, then the square wave exhibits sligthly more peak to peak jitter, a slightly tighter (better) phase noise spectrum and a few additional spurious signals, especially at higher frequencies - so for all practical purposes these instruments work well with both reference signal shapes.

I personally still prefer the clean sine for two reasons:
1. Even though the SDG-X don't care, some instruments might show nasty output spectra with a square reference.
2. Highly sensitive low noise instruments might actually be compromised by the harmonics/spurs of the square wave.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: DIPLover on July 26, 2019, 07:38:42 pm
I like the stats on the counter page in the SDS2042X but for when I want to monitor the count and don't care about stats, is there a way to have the current count displayed in a less TINY font ?

I don't know, maybe squarely in the middle of the display in as large a font as will fit the 8 digits?

Why so tiny?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on July 27, 2019, 08:08:21 am
I like the stats on the counter page in the SDS2042X but for when I want to monitor the count and don't care about stats, is there a way to have the current count displayed in a less TINY font ?

I don't know, maybe squarely in the middle of the display in as large a font as will fit the 8 digits?

Why so tiny?
Maybe we'll ask for this as a feature request if there's enough support for it.


On that topic of feature requests ..........
I got asked by a customer if a HiZ-50 Ohm toggle could be implemented by using a long press for the channel enable button.
I didn't know if SDG2000X models could and tech support informed me all X series AWG's already support this feature. There's a few mentions of it in the manual in wording that's not plainly apparent and could also be highlighted.....but who like reading manuals !

Continue pressing the corresponding output key for two seconds to switch between High Impedance and 50Ω.

Translation: A Long press of any Output button toggles between HiZ and 50 Ohm settings.

Hope that speeds up SDG****X usage for some of you.  :)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Svuppe on July 27, 2019, 09:10:40 am
I got asked by a customer if a HiZ-50 Ohm toggle could be implemented by using a long press for the channel enable button.
I didn't know if SDG2000X models could and tech support informed me all X series AWG's already support this feature.

I believe that feature was introduced in one of the firmware updates, so if a customer can't get it to work, he may have an older version.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on July 27, 2019, 09:50:02 am
I got asked by a customer if a HiZ-50 Ohm toggle could be implemented by using a long press for the channel enable button.
I didn't know if SDG2000X models could and tech support informed me all X series AWG's already support this feature.

I believe that feature was introduced in one of the firmware updates, so if a customer can't get it to work, he may have an older version.
Nope. I sold it to him a week before.
Anyways, you knew about it.......I didn’t.  :palm:
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: TurboTom on July 27, 2019, 10:56:17 am
I like the stats on the counter page in the SDS2042X but for when I want to monitor the count and don't care about stats, is there a way to have the current count displayed in a less TINY font ?

I don't know, maybe squarely in the middle of the display in as large a font as will fit the 8 digits?

Why so tiny?

Even though not on a Siglent instrument, but maybe interesting anyway: The Counter function is the one feature that the Rigol DG4000 series excels all Siglent gear by far. Maybe a hint to the Siglent engineers to get some inspiration there ?  ;)

See the screenshots of an FM modulated 1MHz signal, different modulation waveforms, following sequence:
- simple counter in the background
- simple counter
- counter with numerical statistics
- counter with graphical statistics.

Cheers,
Thomas
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: ebastler on July 27, 2019, 11:50:21 am
The Counter function is the one feature that the Rigol DG4000 series excels all Siglent gear by far. [...]
See the screenshots of an FM modulated 1MHz signal, different modulation waveforms [...]

Nice screen layout and choice of fonts indeed.

But I find the comma separators used within the decimal digits (to the right of the decimal point!) extremely irritating. I don't think I have noticed that anywhere before. Is that an "allowed" notation, say in the scientifc literature? Are other instrument manufacturers using it?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: 2N3055 on July 27, 2019, 12:06:18 pm
The Counter function is the one feature that the Rigol DG4000 series excels all Siglent gear by far. [...]
See the screenshots of an FM modulated 1MHz signal, different modulation waveforms [...]

Nice screen layout and choice of fonts indeed.

But I find the comma separators used within the decimal digits (to the right of the decimal point!) extremely irritating. I don't think I have noticed that anywhere before. Is that an "allowed" notation, say in the scientifc literature? Are other instrument manufacturers using it?

By default it is
Decimal Point: Dot
Thousand Separator: Comma

It is user configurable on DM3068 and DG1000Z.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: ebastler on July 27, 2019, 12:15:32 pm
[By default it is
Decimal Point: Dot
Thousand Separator: Comma

Thanks, but it is not the "dot vs. comma" thing I'm concerned about. While Germany indeed uses the opposite convention, I have had plenty of opportunity to get used to the anglo-saxon style.

It's the use of "thousands" seprarators to the right of the decimal point which gets me. Use spaces every three digits if you have to, but extra commas I find totally distracting. Is that an official notation??
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: 2N3055 on July 27, 2019, 02:50:29 pm
[By default it is
Decimal Point: Dot
Thousand Separator: Comma

Thanks, but it is not the "dot vs. comma" thing I'm concerned about. While Germany indeed uses the opposite convention, I have had plenty of opportunity to get used to the anglo-saxon style.

It's the use of "thousands" seprarators to the right of the decimal point which gets me. Use spaces every three digits if you have to, but extra commas I find totally distracting. Is that an official notation??

You misunderstood. BOTH are configurable.
We also use coma as decimal separator and nothing or space for digit grouping.
Digit grouping is called "Thousand Separator" in Rigol parlance. It can be set to coma, space or none
Regards
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: ebastler on July 27, 2019, 03:04:07 pm
You misunderstood. BOTH are configurable.
We also use coma as decimal separator and nothing or space for digit grouping.
Digit grouping is called "Thousand Separator" in Rigol parlance. It can be set to coma, space or none
Regards

Ah, thanks. If "space" is also an option for the thousand separator, I can live with that.  ;)

I still believe that, even if you select the point or comma as the thousand separator, correct use would be to show it to the left of the decimal point only, not for the fractional digits. But that may be nitpicking...
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: 2N3055 on July 27, 2019, 03:20:29 pm
You misunderstood. BOTH are configurable.
We also use coma as decimal separator and nothing or space for digit grouping.
Digit grouping is called "Thousand Separator" in Rigol parlance. It can be set to coma, space or none
Regards

Ah, thanks. If "space" is also an option for the thousand separator, I can live with that.  ;)

I still believe that, even if you select the point or comma as the thousand separator, correct use would be to show it to the left of the decimal point only, not for the fractional digits. But that may be nitpicking...

No, you're right, but I just use space and all is well.
regards,
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: 2N3055 on July 27, 2019, 03:35:17 pm
I just checked with SDG6000X, it has same settings, for comma delimiter and digit grouping separator.

While we are talking about counter improvement in SDG series, SDG6000X has capability to show deviation from reference frequency. But you have to type it in every time, it would be nice to have a button to copy reference frequency from current mean frequency, as a shortcut.  So you start measuring, copy reference from current mean freq, and let it simmer a little and after a while you get nice stats.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: ci11 on July 29, 2019, 05:33:38 am
To the Guru's:

A simple question about amplitude adjustments on both the SDG2000X and SDG1000X models: can either or both of these vary the amplitude with 1µV resolution using the encoder when outputting a sine wave? If not, what is the lowest unit of adjustment possible on both moel ranges? With the SDG2000X's 16-bit DAC, it may be possible if Siglent chose to implement it. Much less likely on the SDG1000X with its 14-bit DAC but should ask just in case Siglent has tricks up its sleeve.

Thanks.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on July 29, 2019, 06:06:35 am
To the Guru's:

A simple question about amplitude adjustments on both the SDG2000X and SDG1000X models: can either or both of these vary the amplitude with 1µV resolution using the encoder when outputting a sine wave? If not, what is the lowest unit of adjustment possible on both moel ranges? With the SDG2000X's 16-bit DAC, it may be possible if Siglent chose to implement it. Much less likely on the SDG1000X with its 14-bit DAC but should ask just in case Siglent has tricks up its sleeve.

Thanks.
SDG1032X 1mV.
SDG2042X sorry out of stock but I think it's the same.

In the programming manual under some settings there's mention of 1uV however if the specified output accuracy is ±(1%+1 mVpp) I don't see how that could be achieved.
I'll hook a SDG1032X to the PC a bit later (dinner time) and see what the min is from within the EasyWave SW.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on July 29, 2019, 08:29:14 am
To the Guru's:

A simple question about amplitude adjustments on both the SDG2000X and SDG1000X models: can either or both of these vary the amplitude with 1µV resolution using the encoder when outputting a sine wave? If not, what is the lowest unit of adjustment possible on both moel ranges? With the SDG2000X's 16-bit DAC, it may be possible if Siglent chose to implement it. Much less likely on the SDG1000X with its 14-bit DAC but should ask just in case Siglent has tricks up its sleeve.

Thanks.
SDG1032X 1mV.
SDG2042X sorry out of stock but I think it's the same.

In the programming manual under some settings there's mention of 1uV however if the specified output accuracy is ±(1%+1 mVpp) I don't see how that could be achieved.
I'll hook a SDG1032X to the PC a bit later (dinner time) and see what the min is from within the EasyWave SW.
Within the EasyWave software the graphing shows 1uV resolution.  :o
How to measure that signal with absolute accurately with an 8 bit DSO coming from a 14 bit AWG is entirely another matter.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: ci11 on July 29, 2019, 11:17:20 am
Thank you for the clarifications.

The amplitude resolution is to be used for maintaining specific voltage levels in instrumentation which resolves down to 0.1mV, and there is no room for a PC or a soundcard FG might have been an alternative. If anyone has a SDG2000X on hand would not mind checking the amplitude setting resolution at 1V and higher for sine - from the datasheet, it looks to be 4 digits only which means 1mV at 1V or higher. It would be delightful if it is at 0.1mV or better.

Thanks in advance.


To the Guru's:

A simple question about amplitude adjustments on both the SDG2000X and SDG1000X models: can either or both of these vary the amplitude with 1µV resolution using the encoder when outputting a sine wave? If not, what is the lowest unit of adjustment possible on both moel ranges? With the SDG2000X's 16-bit DAC, it may be possible if Siglent chose to implement it. Much less likely on the SDG1000X with its 14-bit DAC but should ask just in case Siglent has tricks up its sleeve.

Thanks.
SDG1032X 1mV.
SDG2042X sorry out of stock but I think it's the same.

In the programming manual under some settings there's mention of 1uV however if the specified output accuracy is ±(1%+1 mVpp) I don't see how that could be achieved.
I'll hook a SDG1032X to the PC a bit later (dinner time) and see what the min is from within the EasyWave SW.
Within the EasyWave software the graphing shows 1uV resolution.  :o
How to measure that signal with absolute accurately with an 8 bit DSO coming from a 14 bit AWG is entirely another matter.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Svuppe on July 29, 2019, 02:47:56 pm
If anyone has a SDG2000X on hand would not mind checking the amplitude setting resolution at 1V and higher for sine - from the datasheet, it looks to be 4 digits only which means 1mV at 1V or higher. It would be delightful if it is at 0.1mV or better.
I'm afraid I am about to disappoint you. I just tested a little on my 2042X. 1V and above is just 1mV steps.
But it gets worse: I went just below 1V to get the 0.1mV steps, and the last digit doesn't do much good at all.

At a setting of 998.4 mV PP, I read (on a Fluke 187) an actual output of 352.59 mV RMS. With calibration age and so on, this is reasonable.
I then stepped up 0.1 mV to 998.5 mV PP, and the Fluke read 352.99 mV RMS. Now as I increased further, the Fluke didn't move at all. All the way from 998.5 to 999.6 mV PP (not a typo, the difference was 1.1 mV PP) and the output sat still at 352.99 mV RMS.
The next step to 999.7 mV PP made the Fluke jump to 353.39 mV RMS.

At much lower values (around 100 mV PP), the 0.1 mV digit did change the output at every step.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: ebastler on July 29, 2019, 03:12:57 pm
The amplitude resolution is to be used for maintaining specific voltage levels in instrumentation which resolves down to 0.1mV, and there is no room for a PC or a soundcard FG might have been an alternative.

What input impedance does your "instrumentation" have, and what absolute amplitude do you need? Could you simply use a passive 10:1 (or higher ratio) voltage divider at the function generator's output? Or add an op-amp buffer if you can't get away with the higher impedance?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: ci11 on July 29, 2019, 08:59:13 pm
Gentlemen,

Thank you for your replies.

@Svuppe - I called Siglent here in the US and talked through the process with the very nice gentleman on the other end of the phone. He reported the same anomalies - no 0.1mV steps at 1V and above, and even at less than 1V, the 0.1mV steps did not do much until 0.7mV or higher. Which says to me - it's not there, find something else.

@ebastler - the instrumentation has a 4-digit voltmeter which needs to be maintained at 1.000V as much as possible. "Topping up and bleeding" a 4-digit readout requires an effective 5-digit adjustment. Since it is a voltmeter tap, a voltage divider would require downstream changes that are not easier than a cheap FG with 5-digit resolution.

In any case, a solution is right under my nose that can be used - it is a 16-bit NI PXI AWG, the PXI-5421. I have one here and it is surprisingly usable with the NI InstrumentStudio UI. A lot more money than a SDG2000X and no knobs but its amplitude control is effective to 0.01mV or 10µV. And the values in the amplitude field can even be "scrolled thorugh" with the mouse wheel in .05 increments.

So no Siglent this time but lots of good help and insights. Thank you gentlemen again.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: radiolistener on July 30, 2019, 05:47:13 pm
But I find the comma separators used within the decimal digits (to the right of the decimal point!) extremely irritating.

that's terrible. I hate all devices and software which uses "," or "." to split groups of decimal digits. It's just impossible to understand which separator is used to split integer and fractional part. So, you cannot understand what value is displayed exactly, even when you know that "," is used to split integer part from fractional part and "." is used to split groups of decimal digits.

I just don't understand why they using so confusing group separator?! "'" is much better, for example "1'000'000.003'125"
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: 2N3055 on July 30, 2019, 07:46:15 pm
But I find the comma separators used within the decimal digits (to the right of the decimal point!) extremely irritating.

that's terrible. I hate all devices and software which uses "," or "." to split groups of decimal digits. It's just impossible to understand which separator is used to split integer and fractional part. So, you cannot understand what value is displayed exactly, even when you know that "," is used to split integer part from fractional part and "." is used to split groups of decimal digits.

I just don't understand why they using so confusing group separator?! "'" is much better, for example "1'000'000.003'125"

As I said, I agree the default is questionable, but you can configure it. I just set it to space.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: jjoonathan on August 08, 2019, 05:13:04 am
Does anyone happen to know if there's a way to get more digits in the frequency entry? It looks like it always shows six digits to the right of the decimal point. If you're in Hz, that gives you uHz resolution. If you're in MHz, that only gives you Hz resolution. I'm looking for beat frequencies and Hz resolution is proving restrictive...
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: ebastler on August 08, 2019, 06:11:27 am
Does anyone happen to know if there's a way to get more digits in the frequency entry? It looks like it always shows six digits to the right of the decimal point. If you're in Hz, that gives you uHz resolution. If you're in MHz, that only gives you Hz resolution. I'm looking for beat frequencies and Hz resolution is proving restrictive...

I would have thought that the limited resolution of the frequency setting is not imposed by the user interface, but by the internal architecture of the signal generator? I imagine a prescaler followed by a PLL with a divider that has a finite number of bits, which defines the frequency resolution (frequency steps). I might be mistaken though -- maybe someone has a block diagram of the SDG2000X, or of a typical digital generator?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: jjoonathan on August 08, 2019, 05:57:33 pm
I thought it was DDS?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: TurboTom on August 08, 2019, 06:44:42 pm
Anyway, a fractional-N-PLL can achieve very small increments, even with quite high reference frequencies.
Title: SDG2042X bug? Glitch on other channel when switching a channel on/off
Post by: ebastler on August 11, 2019, 04:42:43 pm
I ran into an annoying behavior of my SDG2042X. I believe it's a bug:

When I switch the output of channel 1 ON, while channel 2 is already ON, there is a 6 ms interruption of the channel 2 output. See the attached screenshot, showing channel 1 on top and channel 2 below.

The blackout seems to always last approx. 6 ms, independent of the frequency settings. The same glitch happens on channel 1 when channel 2 is switched ON. On the other hand, switching a channel OFF does not have this side effect. [Edit: It does, see below.] When I first observed this, I had channel coupling activated (fixed frequency ratio), but the glitch also occurs without the coupling.

Is this a known behavior? Is there a workaround? (Yes, plugging/unplugging the BNC instead of switching the channel does help...  ;)) My firmware version is 2.01.01.23R8, hardware version 02-02-00-35-00. The SDG has been "upgraded" to SDG2122X specs.

Thanks for any hints!

EDIT: Hang on, there is also a problem when switching a channel OFF! It's just different from what I had expected, hence I did not set up the scope trigger right to see what is going on. See the second attachment: Even more annoying, since channel 1 goes into an undefined state for 6ms before it actually switches OFF, and there is a brief dropout on channel 2.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: ebastler on August 14, 2019, 11:59:02 am
There's a lot of traffic in the TE section, and topics drop back to page two pretty quickly... So may I give this one a little bump? (Just once, promised!)

Have others observed the glitch upon channel switching which I describe in the post above? Is there a fix or workaround?
Thanks!
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: JDubU on August 14, 2019, 01:44:42 pm
I've confirmed your results.  Seems like it would need a firmware fix from Siglent to correct it.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: TurboTom on August 15, 2019, 02:34:09 pm
I could also replicate this behavior with my SDG6000X. Channel-switching appears to affect the non-switched channel only in phase coupled mode, if the channels run independently, I couldn't find any distortion / dropouts on the non-switched channel. From a logical point of view, this pausing shouldn't be necessary, neither when disable nor when enabling the other channel.

Enabling and disabling channels, especially if the waveform has a DC offset, is quite ugly since the AWG appears to be programmed to output a (Vmax + Vmin)/2 DC signal while the output disconnection relay is toggled. Especially while switching on, this will produce some ugly bouncing.

In case of switching off, I think the better solution would be to simply toggle the output relay to disconnect the output. It shouldn't be necessary to output a DC signal before.

Switching on is more troublesome due to the relay bounce. Definitely the best way would be to measure the (idle) voltage on the output BNC, adjust the AWG to output exactly this measured DC voltage, enable the relay, wait for the bounce to pass and then enable the signal. This would ensure that no current is flowing while the relay is closed. But I'm not sure if the generators are equipped with an ADC on the outputs.

Otherwise, the switch-on potential should be made configurable by the user to be at least either (Vmax + Vmin)/2 or 0V.

Cheers,
Thomas
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: NoisyBoy on August 17, 2019, 06:40:02 am
I tried a few of the links for the 1.17R5 firmware, it appears that this version is no longer available for download from Siglent's website.  Will someone kindly share a copy of the firmware?  It is much appreciated.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on August 17, 2019, 08:35:59 am
I tried a few of the links for the 1.17R5 firmware, it appears that this version is no longer available for download from Siglent's website.  Will someone kindly share a copy of the firmware?  It is much appreciated.
:-//
Current Version: V2.01.01.23R8 http://old.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDG2000X_2.01.01.23R8_EN.zip (http://old.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDG2000X_2.01.01.23R8_EN.zip)

Version 1.17R5 from 2016
http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDG2000X-P17R5.rar (http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDG2000X-P17R5.rar)

FYI all firmware versions from the beginning of time:
http://www.siglent.com/ENs/gjjrj.aspx?id=15 (http://www.siglent.com/ENs/gjjrj.aspx?id=15)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: NoisyBoy on August 17, 2019, 02:09:46 pm
Hi Tautech, thanks for your quick reply.  I tried those links already, unfortunately when you actually click on the download button on those pages, it comes back with “Sorry, but the page you were trying to view does not exist.”

I hope someone has a saved copy that he/she can share.  Thanks in advance.

I tried a few of the links for the 1.17R5 firmware, it appears that this version is no longer available for download from Siglent's website.  Will someone kindly share a copy of the firmware?  It is much appreciated.
:-//
Current Version: V2.01.01.23R8 http://old.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDG2000X_2.01.01.23R8_EN.zip (http://old.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDG2000X_2.01.01.23R8_EN.zip)

Version 1.17R5 from 2016
http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDG2000X-P17R5.rar (http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDG2000X-P17R5.rar)

FYI all firmware versions from the beginning of time:
http://www.siglent.com/ENs/gjjrj.aspx?id=15 (http://www.siglent.com/ENs/gjjrj.aspx?id=15)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on August 17, 2019, 08:13:07 pm
Hi Tautech, thanks for your quick reply.  I tried those links already, unfortunately when you actually click on the download button on those pages, it comes back with “Sorry, but the page you were trying to view does not exist.”

I hope someone has a saved copy that he/she can share.  Thanks in advance.

I tried a few of the links for the 1.17R5 firmware, it appears that this version is no longer available for download from Siglent's website.  Will someone kindly share a copy of the firmware?  It is much appreciated.
:-//
Current Version: V2.01.01.23R8 http://old.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDG2000X_2.01.01.23R8_EN.zip (http://old.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDG2000X_2.01.01.23R8_EN.zip)

Version 1.17R5 from 2016
http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDG2000X-P17R5.rar (http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDG2000X-P17R5.rar)

FYI all firmware versions from the beginning of time:
http://www.siglent.com/ENs/gjjrj.aspx?id=15 (http://www.siglent.com/ENs/gjjrj.aspx?id=15)
OK, first time I've experienced a busted link from the Siglent FW homepage.  >:(
I'll report it !

I have 17R5 and can email it to you so PM your email to me.
It's 12.6 MB.

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tv84 on August 17, 2019, 08:22:08 pm
Here:

http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=06236461452182036623 (http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=06236461452182036623)

What's so special with this version??
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: NoisyBoy on August 18, 2019, 12:39:17 am
Hi tautech and tv84,

First of all, thank you so much for your kind assistance, I was able to download the firmware from the link tv84 provided.

tv84, this release is required in order for the bandwidth "patch" as it allows SSH to work in order to do the vi edit. 

Again, your gracious helping hands are much appreciated.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tv84 on August 18, 2019, 12:37:11 pm
this release is required in order for the bandwidth "patch" as it allows SSH to work in order to do the vi edit. 

It looks like you don't know this:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ads-firmware-file-format/msg1870091/#msg1870091 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ads-firmware-file-format/msg1870091/#msg1870091)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: NoisyBoy on August 18, 2019, 04:32:26 pm
Hey tv84,

No, I have not read that topic before, very helpful.  Now I have another tool in my toolbelt, thank you again for all the information you and others have shared, you folks rock!


this release is required in order for the bandwidth "patch" as it allows SSH to work in order to do the vi edit. 

It looks like you don't know this:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ads-firmware-file-format/msg1870091/#msg1870091 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ads-firmware-file-format/msg1870091/#msg1870091)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on September 11, 2019, 07:39:44 pm
Dropping this here from another thread:

SDG2000X Firmware - 2.01.01.35R3B1
14.7 MB

I noticed Siglent just released a new firmware update to their website today, there is a significant list of changes with the latest version:
https://siglentna.com/service-and-support/firmware-software/waveform-generators/#sdg2000x-series

1. Changed the amplitude strategy of AM modulation: The carrier stays fixed at the amplitude, regardless of the modulation setting.
2. Increased the upper limit of Harmonics number from 10 to 16.
3. Supported Multi-Device Synchronization.
4. Supported Up followed by Down Sweep mode in Linear sweep (no change for Log sweep).
5. Added an icon to indicate clock source is internal or external.
Internal: External: External and the clock is lost:
6. Changed the clock switch strategy: When the clock source is set to External and no actual external clock signal is being received, the clock source will not switch to Internal automatically but the clock icon will indicate that external clock is lost
7. Supported specifying Arb type by remote control when the modulating waveform is Arb.
8. Optimized the UI of selecting built-in arbs
9. Supported changing the unit of amplitude without any amplitude change by long pressing the "Amplitude" softkey.
10. Added "User" option under "PowerOn Setting".
11. Added "Normal" as a new UI color style.
12. Added memory space information in Store/Recall UI.
13. Optimized response of the universal knob
14. Added indicator for double function of the soft keys =>
15. Removed the warning message when parameter is set to a value beyond the limit
16. Fixed several bugs
a) [2017/04/07-92573] Digit changes when setting delay of Pulse by the knob
b) Amplitude unit “dBm” is not remembered after a reboot

I found item 10 to be very useful, it let you pick whichever profile you want instead of defaulting to Default or Last. 
Item 12 gives you an idea of internal storage usage before you run out of space.
Item 14 gives the item selected a much clearer indication.
I drove the unit with a GPSDO, so item 5 and 6 are welcoming additions.

Lastly, update process is painless, it preserves the enhancements you made to the SDG. 
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: rf-loop on September 12, 2019, 04:52:50 am
FW: 2.01.01.35R3B1
Quote
1. Changed the amplitude strategy of AM modulation: The carrier stays fixed at the amplitude, regardless of the modulation setting.

Finally, after many years,  this small but important improvement.
No more confusion between using the conventional RF generator and sometimes using the SDG2000X for similar things with  carrier alone (CW) or AM mod carrier.

Carrier level is now what you set and it keep this carrier level when user turn AM mod on/off and independent of modulation depth. Now it works just like conventional RF generator  :-+

(SDG1000X get this improvement around year ago)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: colorado.rob on September 13, 2019, 02:59:37 am
Awesome.  Just confirmed that #7 works as expected.  That was my request.

Code: [Select]
C1:MDWV DSBAM,MDSP,ARB,NAME,arbfile

That does the right thing now.  I stayed up past my bedtime to make sure that works.

Also really happy about the external clock handling.  Don't have time to test that out.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: flash2b on September 13, 2019, 09:07:39 am
this release is required in order for the bandwidth "patch" as it allows SSH to work in order to do the vi edit. 

It looks like you don't know this:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ads-firmware-file-format/msg1870091/#msg1870091 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ads-firmware-file-format/msg1870091/#msg1870091)

I like to understand how this works. Will the password be reset after applying this ADS towards the SDG ? Or will the password be set standard 'known'  :D value ?

Can you apply the ADS to any version of the SDG firmware (including patched ones) ?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tv84 on September 13, 2019, 10:58:44 am
Will the password be reset after applying this ADS towards the SDG ? Or will the password be set standard 'known'  :D value ?

Can you apply the ADS to any version of the SDG firmware (including patched ones) ?

No. No. Yes.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: janekivi on September 13, 2019, 03:25:20 pm
Quote
15. Removed the warning message when parameter is set to a value beyond the limit
This is good to see, no more hacking. Next we hope to have that password set by factory.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: ebastler on September 13, 2019, 03:48:00 pm
Quote
15. Removed the warning message when parameter is set to a value beyond the limit
This is good to see, no more hacking. Next we hope to have that password set by factory.

Umm, could you elaborate please? Not sure I understand your point. Did you previously hack the generator to remove the annoying error message? Or does Siglent's removal of the error message now disable hacking? (But why would that be "good to see"?) And what do you mean by "have that password set by factory"?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tv84 on September 13, 2019, 07:31:24 pm
Umm, could you elaborate please?

@janekivi,  :D

@eblaster,
yes, janekivi has in the past removed that msg. He's also suggesting that Rigol starts including the "forum's password" to spare everyone from the troubles of using other telnet methods.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: janekivi on September 13, 2019, 09:01:44 pm
Quote
15. Removed the warning message when parameter is set to a value beyond the limit
This is good to see, no more hacking (needed here). Next we hope to have that password set by factory
(then no more hacking needed here too).
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: janekivi on September 13, 2019, 09:27:58 pm
I can make new file but probably they have disabled telnet.
There is possible to use older firmware with telnet or telnet opening files
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ads-firmware-file-format/msg1870091/#msg1870091 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ads-firmware-file-format/msg1870091/#msg1870091)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bson on September 14, 2019, 02:27:29 am
Quote
6. Changed the clock switch strategy: When the clock source is set to External and no actual external clock signal is being received, the clock source will not switch to Internal automatically but the clock icon will indicate that external clock is lost
:-+ :-+ :-+

Super!!!
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Gixy on September 15, 2019, 04:01:39 pm
FW: 2.01.01.35R3B1
Quote
1. Changed the amplitude strategy of AM modulation: The carrier stays fixed at the amplitude, regardless of the modulation setting.

Finally, after many years,  this small but important improvement.
No more confusion between using the conventional RF generator and sometimes using the SDG2000X for similar things with  carrier alone (CW) or AM mod carrier.

Carrier level is now what you set and it keep this carrier level when user turn AM mod on/off and independent of modulation depth. Now it works just like conventional RF generator  :-+

(SDG1000X get this improvement around year ago)

Sorry, but I don't understand: AM means Amplitude Modulation, right? How can it be kept at a given level?
I've downloaded the new release and the output signal amplitude is varying as expected with the modulation depth, from the initial level up to 120% of this level (eg. from 1Vpp to 2.4Vpp). Can you please explain what is the difference between the previous strategy and the new one? Thanks 
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: TurboTom on September 15, 2019, 08:42:55 pm
The average output power / RMS amplitude stays constant. I.e. if you connect the AWG to an (RF) power meter, the displayed level stays constant, regardless if you enable or disable AM or change the modulation depth. That's how a "proper" RF signal generator is supposed to work.

Cheers,
Thomas
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: JDubU on September 15, 2019, 09:29:14 pm
Is that also true of AM radio transmission?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: rf-loop on September 15, 2019, 09:32:27 pm
FW: 2.01.01.35R3B1
Quote
1. Changed the amplitude strategy of AM modulation: The carrier stays fixed at the amplitude, regardless of the modulation setting.

Finally, after many years,  this small but important improvement.
No more confusion between using the conventional RF generator and sometimes using the SDG2000X for similar things with  carrier alone (CW) or AM mod carrier.

Carrier level is now what you set and it keep this carrier level when user turn AM mod on/off and independent of modulation depth. Now it works just like conventional RF generator  :-+

(SDG1000X get this improvement around year ago)

Sorry, but I don't understand: AM means Amplitude Modulation, right? How can it be kept at a given level?
I've downloaded the new release and the output signal amplitude is varying as expected with the modulation depth, from the initial level up to 120% of this level (eg. from 1Vpp to 2.4Vpp). Can you please explain what is the difference between the previous strategy and the new one? Thanks

If you look AM in frequency domain, using example spectrum analyzer you see this meaning of course.

Lets take example.

We set generator to produce 1MHz carrier without AM modulation, just pure sine. We set this carrier level say example 0dBm (50ohm system)  and we can see level is 0dBm if we look it with frequency domain - spectrum analyzer. (or time domain - oscilloscope we can see constant 0dBm level sinewave)

Then we turn AM modulation on without touching level:

Old FW, When turn AM on carrier drop 6dB (independent of modualtion depth)

Try with conventinal RF generator. Turn AM on and off. Carrier level stay constant.

New FirmWare (works now like conventional RF generator):
Turn AM on and off, carrier level stay constant and just as level was set..

Say example 1MHz carrier AM modulated with 1kHz sinewave and modulation depth 100%.
In real world there is now 0dBm 1MHz carrier and -6dBm 999kHz LSB tone and -6dBm 1001kHz USB tone.
If look with spectrum analyzer it is just what is show.

In old FW when select AM modulation, output peak level what was displayed/adjusted using SDG level setting.  It was right only for signal peaks when mod depth was 100%. With all other modulation depths level setting was wrong. It was not peak level and not carrier level and not sidetones level (zero true).
In new FW level set have one true. It is always carrier level. As it is also when AM is on or off.



Ok, now we drop modulation depth. Say example to 10%. Now we can see 1MHz carrier, level 0dBm and these sidetones levels dropped to -26dBm.

Then turn AM on and off. Spectrum analyzer show carrier stay always 0dBm and AM on there is sidetones and AM off, only carrier.
When look time domain, oscilloscope, AM on, there is bit over carrier peaks and bit under carrier lows and AM off, constant level carrier)

This may help for understand AM modulation (levels). http://hpmemoryproject.org/an/pdf/an_150-1a.pdf (http://hpmemoryproject.org/an/pdf/an_150-1a.pdf)  and there chapter 2.




Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: rf-loop on September 15, 2019, 09:40:19 pm
Is that also true of AM radio transmission?

This AM modulation math is same inside wire transmission and (radio) wireless transmission.  ;)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bicycleguy on September 17, 2019, 10:03:52 pm
Was anyone else notified of this update?  I thought I filled out all the warranty stuff ect. but never get notices of firmware updates.

Looks like a great update tho
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: NoisyBoy on September 17, 2019, 11:57:32 pm
There is no notification, in fact, I don't even believe there's a warranty registration.  At least I have never seen one on the website.

In reviewing the update date for the prior versions, and the recent update on the SDG1000X firmware, I figured something must be on the way.  So I was checking the firmware page periodically, that's how I came across the update a week ago.  The first thing I did was to share it with the community, so we can all benefit from the updates. 

That's one difference between the Chinese brands and the top tier brands, you get what you pay for.  I can log onto Infoline on Keysight to see every piece of equipment I bought from them, the warranty, warranty period, cal certificates, repair records/status, service and safety notes, and all software/firmware/documentation specific to my unit.  It is very nice for a hobby lab like mine, and I can understand the value for a large professional lab with hundreds or thousands of pieces of equipment. 
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on September 18, 2019, 12:58:51 am
There is no notification, in fact, I don't even believe there's a warranty registration.  At least I have never seen one on the website.

In reviewing the update date for the prior versions, and the recent update on the SDG1000X firmware, I figured something must be on the way.  So I was checking the firmware page periodically, that's how I came across the update a week ago.  The first thing I did was to share it with the community, so we can all benefit from the updates. 

That's one difference between the Chinese brands and the top tier brands, you get what you pay for.  I can log onto Infoline on Keysight to see every piece of equipment I bought from them, the warranty, warranty period, cal certificates, repair records/status, service and safety notes, and all software/firmware/documentation specific to my unit.  It is very nice for a hobby lab like mine, and I can understand the value for a large professional lab with hundreds or thousands of pieces of equipment.
Things are a changing !
https://int.siglent.com/support/
Create an account and register your products.

Did once in the early days and all the spam I ever get is a mail when a new product guide is released.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: n3mmr on September 18, 2019, 09:17:34 am
There is no notification, in fact, I don't even believe there's a warranty registration.  At least I have never seen one on the website.

In reviewing the update date for the prior versions, and the recent update on the SDG1000X firmware, I figured something must be on the way.  So I was checking the firmware page periodically, that's how I came across the update a week ago.  The first thing I did was to share it with the community, so we can all benefit from the updates. 

That's one difference between the Chinese brands and the top tier brands, you get what you pay for.  I can log onto Infoline on Keysight to see every piece of equipment I bought from them, the warranty, warranty period, cal certificates, repair records/status, service and safety notes, and all software/firmware/documentation specific to my unit.  It is very nice for a hobby lab like mine, and I can understand the value for a large professional lab with hundreds or thousands of pieces of equipment.
Things are a changing !
https://int.siglent.com/support/ (https://int.siglent.com/support/)
Create an account and register your products.

Did once in the early days and all the spam I ever get is a mail when a new product guide is released.

Just tried that: no luck!
I registered, logged in and started by attempting to register my sds1104x-e.

Had the following error return:

"Fatal error: Uncaught SoapFault exception: [WSDL] SOAP-ERROR: Parsing WSDL: Couldn't load from 'http://219.133.80.90:8090/DYWebServer/DYWebServer.asmx?wsdl' (http://219.133.80.90:8090/DYWebServer/DYWebServer.asmx?wsdl') : failed to load external entity "http://219.133.80.90:8090/DYWebServer/DYWebServer.asmx?wsdl" in /home/intsiglent/public_html/member/module/product-registration.php:32 Stack trace: #0 /home/intsiglent/public_html/member/module/product-registration.php(32): SoapClient->SoapClient('http://219.133 (http://219.133)....') #1 /home/intsiglent/public_html/member/index.php(26): include('/home/intsiglen...') #2 /home/intsiglent/public_html/account.php(3): include('/home/intsiglen...') #3 {main} thrown in /home/intsiglent/public_html/member/module/product-registration.php on line 32"

I'm in Sweden, if that could be part of the problem.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: n3mmr on September 18, 2019, 11:17:55 am
There is no notification, in fact, I don't even believe there's a warranty registration.  At least I have never seen one on the website.

In reviewing the update date for the prior versions, and the recent update on the SDG1000X firmware, I figured something must be on the way.  So I was checking the firmware page periodically, that's how I came across the update a week ago.  The first thing I did was to share it with the community, so we can all benefit from the updates. 

That's one difference between the Chinese brands and the top tier brands, you get what you pay for.  I can log onto Infoline on Keysight to see every piece of equipment I bought from them, the warranty, warranty period, cal certificates, repair records/status, service and safety notes, and all software/firmware/documentation specific to my unit.  It is very nice for a hobby lab like mine, and I can understand the value for a large professional lab with hundreds or thousands of pieces of equipment.
Things are a changing !
https://int.siglent.com/support/ (https://int.siglent.com/support/)
Create an account and register your products.

Did once in the early days and all the spam I ever get is a mail when a new product guide is released.

Just tried that: no luck!
I registered, logged in and started by attempting to register my sds1104x-e.

Had the following error return:

"Fatal error: Uncaught SoapFault exception: [WSDL] SOAP-ERROR: Parsing WSDL: Couldn't load from 'http://219.133.80.90:8090/DYWebServer/DYWebServer.asmx?wsdl' (http://219.133.80.90:8090/DYWebServer/DYWebServer.asmx?wsdl') : failed to load external entity "http://219.133.80.90:8090/DYWebServer/DYWebServer.asmx?wsdl" in /home/intsiglent/public_html/member/module/product-registration.php:32 Stack trace: #0 /home/intsiglent/public_html/member/module/product-registration.php(32): SoapClient->SoapClient('http://219.133 (http://219.133)....') #1 /home/intsiglent/public_html/member/index.php(26): include('/home/intsiglen...') #2 /home/intsiglent/public_html/account.php(3): include('/home/intsiglen...') #3 {main} thrown in /home/intsiglent/public_html/member/module/product-registration.php on line 32"

I'm in Sweden, if that could be part of the problem.

And when i tried adding my SDM3045X i get the response, your model doesn't exist...
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Siglent America on September 18, 2019, 12:27:46 pm
There is no notification, in fact, I don't even believe there's a warranty registration.  At least I have never seen one on the website.

In reviewing the update date for the prior versions, and the recent update on the SDG1000X firmware, I figured something must be on the way.  So I was checking the firmware page periodically, that's how I came across the update a week ago.  The first thing I did was to share it with the community, so we can all benefit from the updates. 

That's one difference between the Chinese brands and the top tier brands, you get what you pay for.  I can log onto Infoline on Keysight to see every piece of equipment I bought from them, the warranty, warranty period, cal certificates, repair records/status, service and safety notes, and all software/firmware/documentation specific to my unit.  It is very nice for a hobby lab like mine, and I can understand the value for a large professional lab with hundreds or thousands of pieces of equipment.
Things are a changing !
https://int.siglent.com/support/
Create an account and register your products.

Did once in the early days and all the spam I ever get is a mail when a new product guide is released.

Good morning.
Siglent warranties the product itself, not the owner. So there is actually no real need to try and register it. We have recently made some changes to the SiglentNA.com website and we are trying to clear out old things that are still showing up. If you would like to sign up for the Siglent NA newsletter than please just email us at info@siglent.com and tell us you wish to be added. The newsletter does list all FW updates in the past month as well as videos, application notes, operating tips, new product releases, etc.

With recent changes in privacy laws, especially in Europe, companies are more conscious about adding people to their mail lists than in the past. Siglent is working to keep up with those new laws.

BTW, if you are in North America then you might want to stick with SiglentNA.com. The international site (INT) was designed for English speaking people outside of NA and the EU but it is maintained in Asia, not by us here in Cleveland.

Thanks
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on September 18, 2019, 08:14:40 pm
Good morning.
Siglent warranties the product itself, not the owner. So there is actually no real need to try and register it. We have recently made some changes to the SiglentNA.com website and we are trying to clear out old things that are still showing up. If you would like to sign up for the Siglent NA newsletter than please just email us at info@siglent.com and tell us you wish to be added. The newsletter does list all FW updates in the past month as well as videos, application notes, operating tips, new product releases, etc.

With recent changes in privacy laws, especially in Europe, companies are more conscious about adding people to their mail lists than in the past. Siglent is working to keep up with those new laws.

BTW, if you are in North America then you might want to stick with SiglentNA.com. The international site (INT) was designed for English speaking people outside of NA and the EU but it is maintained in Asia, not by us here in Cleveland.

Thanks
Point is the product registration on the Siglent INT site is broken and needs fixing.
Reported to them yesterday for the webmaster to get working as it should.

Yes each of our regions have different ways to handle warranty and customer support however if our customers wish to register themselves and their products with the factory then it should be available and work.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: ebastler on September 18, 2019, 08:21:45 pm
With recent changes in privacy laws, especially in Europe, companies are more conscious about adding people to their mail lists than in the past. Siglent is working to keep up with those new laws.

You mean, Siglent intentionally broke the registration option on their website, so they don't get in danger of processing customer data?  ;)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: n3mmr on October 17, 2019, 02:27:04 pm
I noticed the 2042X Ref Clock input has an inpiut impedance of 5kOhm.

The waveform from my Leo Bodnar GPSDO at 10MHz looksrather unruly, when looking with an oscilloscope in parallell with the 2042 clock input.

Shouldn't that clock input have a 50 Ohm impedance??

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Gixy on October 18, 2019, 06:09:00 am
Hi,
I have a GPSDO connected to my 2042X and I inserted a 50 Ohm load. The output of the GPSDO is also directly sent to an ITT frequency counter with a "T" BNC and everything work well.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Performa01 on October 18, 2019, 07:17:18 am
There is usually little point using a 50 ohm terminator for the reference clock, even less so if it's distributed by a simple BNC-T.

Up to at least 3 meter cable length the line impedance mismatch will not pose any problem at 10MHz.

On the other hand, a BNC-T will ruin the impedance match and cause reflections anyway, no matter how many terminators and where they are fitted.

A properly matched clock distribution would require a 50 ohm power splitter with all cable ends terminated, but this would significantly attenuate the clock signal.

A large clock signal on the other hand is essential for low jitter and phase noise, which would not really be important for a frequency counter, but it certainly is for any signal generator - at least if output signal quality is of any concern.

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: ebastler on October 18, 2019, 08:06:40 am
Shouldn't that clock input have a 50 Ohm impedance??

Then you would only be able to connect a single receiver to your reference clock source; that's probably not desirable.  More likely than not, you will have multiple devices daisy-chained (via BNC T's); then add a terminator at the last one if needed.

(Yes, the luxury version would be an inout which is switchable betwee2n high-Z or 50 Ohm ...)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: n3mmr on October 18, 2019, 03:27:50 pm
Shouldn't that clock input have a 50 Ohm impedance??

Then you would only be able to connect a single receiver to your reference clock source; that's probably not desirable.  More likely than not, you will have multiple devices daisy-chained (via BNC T's); then add a terminator at the last one if needed.

(Yes, the luxury version would be an inout which is switchable betwee2n high-Z or 50 Ohm ...)

And this is probably a good reason to use sine wave, i e single frequency, clock signals.

Or use a distribution amplifier.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: DPA31 on October 19, 2019, 04:06:36 pm
Only have 2042X sorry and previous were at 40 (max) and 20 MHz.
I mucked around for quite a while to try and show more than 2 harmonics so more than those displayed are right down in the noise floor.

Thanks a lot.
Now it will be interesting to compare it with SDG2082X, SDG2122X and with Rigol DG4102 in the same condition. 
Any chance you can do it in the future? ::)

Also, it will be great if you will test SDG2042X for this modulation issue: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlUUyydTXeY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlUUyydTXeY)

Hi to all,
Great Forum here as usually on EEVBlog!
Being influenced by your work guys here  :-+,
I got an SDG2082X. It's worth its money ! :clap:
Great work from Siglent, and good support to their customers with the firmware evolution.
Find attached the spectrum analysis as per Tautech's one on SDG2042X.
Cheers.
Dom.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: DPA31 on October 19, 2019, 08:01:43 pm


It looks like you don't know this:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ads-firmware-file-format/msg1870091/#msg1870091 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ads-firmware-file-format/msg1870091/#msg1870091)
[/quote]

Hi tv84
i am facing difficulties...
I PM you.
Cheers.
Dom.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: n3mmr on October 25, 2019, 08:29:42 am
Just realised the 2122x Burst mode lacks one possibility that the Tektronix and HP generators in my sophomore physics labs had, a two level burst.

I e the burst could be set as a sharp finite level change rather than on/off.

Can't remember if that was really useful, normally, but I do have a real use case now, where I would like to switch an audio sine wave between full-scale, 0db, and like -60-120 db.

This would be for characterising multi-adc-stage wide dynamic range audio digitizers. Such as those used in the Zoom F6 and the Sound Devices Mixpre II recorders. Such arrangements are common in some digital i/o microphones, too.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: McBryce on October 25, 2019, 09:06:44 am
You can: Create a two level arb. waveform and use that in burst mode.

McBryce.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: n3mmr on October 25, 2019, 10:57:33 am
You can: Create a two level arb. waveform and use that in burst mode.

McBryce.

Why in burst mode? An arb waveform could be the burst, and then just sent out continually.

Also, I'm not sure if I could very easily design such a waveform that didn't have audible DAC  related artefacts.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: McBryce on October 25, 2019, 11:22:27 am
Well you could do it that way too, I just thought you wanted it to be using the Siglent burst mode.
If it's a continuous non-zero value that then has a burst to another non-zero level, you could possibly use burst mode with a DC offset?


McBryce.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: ebastler on October 25, 2019, 01:16:51 pm
I would like to switch an audio sine wave between full-scale, 0db, and like -60-120 db.

Couldn't you also use a continuous sine wave on one channel, then amplitude-modulate via a rectangular signal from the second channel? Or is the dynamic range of amplitude modulation too limited? I haven't tried this. And it would, of course, use both channels, which may be undesirable.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Performa01 on October 25, 2019, 06:45:03 pm
Just realised the 2122x Burst mode lacks one possibility that the Tektronix and HP generators in my sophomore physics labs had, a two level burst.

I e the burst could be set as a sharp finite level change rather than on/off.

Can't remember if that was really useful, normally, but I do have a real use case now, where I would like to switch an audio sine wave between full-scale, 0db, and like -60-120 db.

This would be for characterising multi-adc-stage wide dynamic range audio digitizers. Such as those used in the Zoom F6 and the Sound Devices Mixpre II recorders. Such arrangements are common in some digital i/o microphones, too.
A two level burst is manageable with the SDG-X series when using both channels together – and I think this is the only viable way for your use case. You still want a high quality signal even at very low levels after all.

Here’s the setup

[attachimg=2]
Dual_Level_Setup

You get the idea: Set channel 1 for the 0dB reference signal, and channel 2 for the alternative low level signal. Since the SDG will not go below 1mVpp, you’ll need an external step attenuator to get even lower levels. Even better, the step attenuator should cover the entire range of e.g. 100dB, so you can have the SDG running at a high output level and need not rely on its internal attenuators, with the benefit of only operating one device for different level tests and also minimize intermodulation distortions.

The Picture above shows the proper setup for wideband (high frequency) measurements. For audio, the resistive splitter can be as simple as just a direct connection between the two outputs (a BNC-T) and no 50 ohm input at the DUT either. But in this case I would strongly recommend an external step attenuator that can cover the entire range in order to avoid heavy loading of the generator outputs as well as the corresponding intermodulation distortions that are to be expected if there isn’t any isolation between the channels. This attenuator should then not be operated with less than 10dB, or even better yet, place some fixed attenuator between SDG output and step attenuator to ensure a minimum attenuation (and channel isolation).

Setting up a burst for both channels with the appropriate relative delay of half the burst period will then do the trick:

[attachimg=1]
Dual_Level_Result

In this example, there is a 60dB ratio between the two signal levels, consequently I needed a 16bit DSO to illustrate that.The overview window shows the gated reference signal and only the zoom reveals that there is a weak 2nd signal level present.

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: n3mmr on October 26, 2019, 09:42:26 am
Performa01:

Thanks for the analysis and test run!

I hadn't really thought through what a 16bit awg could actually do in respect of maintaining a good waveform at widely differing levels.
I had hoped the 2122 would use vga;s or vary the ref voltage in the dac for some part of the output level setting process but I haven't tried to determine that yet.
My burst question popped up in my mind while shopping wine and I wrote the post on my phone then and there.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Performa01 on October 26, 2019, 10:30:24 am
I did the test with the SDG6052X; it has indeed some continuous variable output level (probably by variable DAC reference), but only for a amplitude range of about 1:2.4. Everything else is accomplished by attenuators activated by relays.

Quite obviously, we cannot switch the relays very fast and even at slow burst periods the permanent relay operations would be annoying, cause glitches and vastly reduce the lifetime of the instrument. ;)

Finally, I've found that quite unsurprisingly the wideband output amplifier is not a high-end audio class A design, so it produces noticable crossover distortions at very low signal levels. You normally never see this, but you can force it with a sine amplitude modulated by a square and then watching the lower level with a high resolution DSO. Otherwise, the amplitude modulation as described could be a substitute for the dual level burst. Modulation depth can be set in 0.1% steps, so in theory up to 60dB ratio would be possible. But in practice, at -60dB there are only 6 bits left for the lower signal at best and the class B oputput amplifier isn't really up to the task either.

As stated before, I really think that my setup is the only option for quality dual signals and the fancy dual level burst of any generator would not be the solution for your problem either.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: n3mmr on October 26, 2019, 11:32:08 am
I really think I should do this measurement using pcsoftware and a good sound card.

And not the 2042.

The output amp being class B with noticeable xover dist is really unacceptable in a serious function generator.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Performa01 on October 26, 2019, 12:09:56 pm

The output amp being class B with noticeable xover dist is really unacceptable in a serious function generator.
Well, blame Texas Instruments or Analog Devices - whoever make them.

And I haven't seen any integrated wideband OpAmp that is not class B in a long time.

If you need an ultra low distortion audio oscillator, there are dedicated devices for that, although with very limited frequency range.

We always had that distinction: Audio Oscillator vs. Function Generator.

Analog function generators had distortion figures up to 1% THD at any output level, so crossover distortions certainly have been a minor concern there.

Like any function (or signal) generator, modern digital AWGs operate at high output levels and use attenuators to get the signal down to the desired levels, so once again crossover distortions are a non-issue, even though the THD figures are much lower than on their analog counterparts.

For the setup I've described in my earlier posting, no crossover distortion will be noticable either, since both output amplifiers operate at reasonable levels. The THD for the SDG is specified as <-65dBc up to 1MHz, I've measured some -80dBc at 20kHz, not as good as a 16bit system could ideally be, but still very good for a function generator.

Of course a good soundcard in conjunction with an external step attenuator will be much better for high-end audio.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: n3mmr on October 26, 2019, 12:27:25 pm
You're possibly right about wideband amplifiers and class B, but in my experience, with discrete semiconductor wideband amps, class B xover can be designed with very little distortion but the added problem of adjustment in deployment.

120MHz is rather wider than what I worked with, I must admit.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Performa01 on October 26, 2019, 01:04:53 pm
Right, properly adjusted class B has the lowest distortion figure (if we exclude true class A). It is certainly lower than class C (= underbiased class B), but also lower than class AB (= overbiased class B), because of the gain doubling in the class A region.

Class AB is much more benign though, because the global feedback reduces the gain error (at lower frequencies at least), whereas global feedback cannot be effective in the class C region where there is no gain at all. But AB output stages usually operate with significant idle current.

The problem is that there is no solution for an automatic adjustment for the optimum bias, so this has to be trimmed manually. And the next challende is to make the adjustment temperature independent - even in an integrated circuit it might not be that easy to compensate the huge temperature differences between idle and full load for the output stage which has to drive 100 ohms from +/-15V supply rails, with 100mA peak current.

In case of my SDG6052X, which is a 500MHz device btw, the output amp is just slightly underbiased. Since idle current consumption is a major concern nowadays, this might be deliberate, but it might well be that the bias is correct for lowest distortion by design, but inevitable manufacturing tolerances throw it off a little.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: n3mmr on October 26, 2019, 03:27:27 pm
It ought to be quite simple to set up an automatic process to adjust biasing.

Never mind, I gjve up, I take it all back...
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: blurpy on October 26, 2019, 05:09:29 pm
I'm playing around with servos using the SDG2042X to generate PWM, and wondering if there is some way of sweeping the duty cycle? I'm trying to make the servo move back and forth automatically without having to change the duty cycle by turning the knob by hand.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: JDubU on October 26, 2019, 06:05:28 pm
blurpy:

PWM Modulation.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Performa01 on October 26, 2019, 06:24:51 pm
I'm playing around with servos using the SDG2042X to generate PWM, and wondering if there is some way of sweeping the duty cycle? I'm trying to make the servo move back and forth automatically without having to change the duty cycle by turning the knob by hand.
That should be easy (my settings are in parenthesis):

Waveform: Pulse.
Pulse Frequency: as you like (100kHz)
Amplitude: as you like (500mVpp)
Rise and Fall times: reasonably fast (2ns)
Pulse Width: half the pulse period (5µs)

Modulation, type = PWM.
Waveform: internal (triangle)
PWM Frequency: slow (100mHz)
Width Deviation: maximum (4.996µs)

For the result see attachment (mp4 video in 7z archive).

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: blurpy on October 26, 2019, 06:49:42 pm
Thanks JDubU and Performa01!

I was able to get modulation setup so that the servo went back and forth all the way, and control the speed using PWM Freq.
The speed was linear, but I guess I can make it behave differently with the shape option? I'll continue experimenting tomorrow.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Performa01 on October 26, 2019, 06:59:26 pm
Thanks JDubU and Performa01!

I was able to get modulation setup so that the servo went back and forth all the way, and control the speed using PWM Freq.
The speed was linear, but I guess I can make it behave differently with the shape option? I'll continue experimenting tomorrow.
Yes, of course you can use whatever waveform you like, including an arbitrary one.
You could even select an external signal (Source/External) to modulate the pulse width.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: blurpy on October 26, 2019, 07:15:09 pm
Ah, that sounds really nice!
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: blurpy on October 27, 2019, 02:36:41 pm
Btw, Performa01, how did you make a video from your Siglent scope? I've got a SDS1204X-E and wondering if I can do the same.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: SteveRosenlund on October 27, 2019, 11:02:18 pm
Hey guys. My sdg2042 has a bit of an issue. There is a delayed response between when I press any button and the resultant action. Up to 5 seconds delay. For example, I press the output button or the utility button and have to wait up to 5 seconds for the machine to respond. I’m on a 2017 firmware 23r3 I believe. And I am hacked to 100mhz. Do I need to update firmware?

Steve
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on October 27, 2019, 11:07:05 pm
Hey guys. My sdg2042 has a bit of an issue. There is a delayed response between when I press any button and the resultant action. Up to 5 seconds delay. For example, I press the output button or the utility button and have to wait up to 5 seconds for the machine to respond. I’m on a 2017 firmware 23r3 I believe. And I am hacked to 100mhz. Do I need to update firmware?

Steve
Update it anyway as there's been a heap of improvements:
https://siglentna.com/service-and-support/firmware-software/waveform-generators/#sdg2000x-series

Study the release notes for any intermediate updates you must do before installing the latest version.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: SteveRosenlund on October 28, 2019, 03:02:27 am
Weird sequence of events following my last post on this.  I updated firmware, one at a time, gradually getting to the latest version, and it wasn't until i upgraded to the latest version that the delay i was experiencing went away.  Now it's fine.  Weird to me.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on October 28, 2019, 05:10:54 am
Weird sequence of events following my last post on this.  I updated firmware, one at a time, gradually getting to the latest version, and it wasn't until i upgraded to the latest version that the delay i was experiencing went away.  Now it's fine.  Weird to me.
Great.  :-+

Early on there were some issues with boot freezes (even Dave had his SDG2122X freeze) and some FW versions are to address this plus make it possible for USB boot freeze recovery so you didn't have to open the unit.
I suspect yours had a similar SW issue and updating to the latest firmware version has fixed it.

Anyways, you're now sorted it seems.  :-+
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Performa01 on October 28, 2019, 12:29:23 pm
Btw, Performa01, how did you make a video from your Siglent scope? I've got a SDS1204X-E and wondering if I can do the same.
I just used the integrated webserver of the DSO and a screen recorder program to capture the content of the browser window on the PC.

The frame rate is limited to some 10fps with an SDS1004X-E, so it's not as smooth as on the real device, but certainly acceptable for many applications.

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: blurpy on October 28, 2019, 06:09:29 pm
Btw, Performa01, how did you make a video from your Siglent scope? I've got a SDS1204X-E and wondering if I can do the same.
I just used the integrated webserver of the DSO and a screen recorder program to capture the content of the browser window on the PC.

The frame rate is limited to some 10fps with an SDS1004X-E, so it's not as smooth as on the real device, but certainly acceptable for many applications.

Thanks, that's clever!
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: trojanrabbit on November 03, 2019, 08:43:54 pm
Good afternoon everyone.

Have had an SDG2042X for a while, combining new technology with old.  I use it primarily when I'm restoring an antique radio or TV as an IF / RF generator, checking IF strips by sweeping the appropriate range (around 455kHz for AM, 10.7MHz for FM and 21MHz for very early TVs) and use the trigger output to trigger my scope.  For that it works great.

Wanted to play with LabVIEW and noticed that Siglent's VI for setting sweep frequencies doesn't work that well, most of the time it doesn't program the "Start" frequency.

Since I'm still running the original 2.01.01.12R1 firmware, I decided to try to upgrade to the latest 2.01.01.35R3B1

For the last 3 hours the display has remained at 0% progress.  Yeah, I can keep the power on in the hope that something happens, but I've seen nothing in this 40 something page thread that suggests I should wait that long.

For the moment, I sent a message to Siglent to see if they have anything to try.

Just a little bummed out.  In the middle of restoring a 1953 Revere reel-to-reel tape recorder and trying to align the AM receiver section, it's a bit off.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on November 03, 2019, 09:15:01 pm
Turn it OFF.
Any issues, I have the recovery files to help you.
Reboot and check the Sys info to see if the update was successful.

I just checked the FW release notes and there's no mention of intermediate FW versions to install before installing the latest.  :-//
https://siglentna.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2019/09/SDG2000X-Firmware-Revise-History-Update-Instructions.pdf
There's a note for 2.01.01.17R5 so that's the version I would upgrade to first before installing the latest.

Come back and report how things went.  :popcorn:

Edit
SDG2000X last four FW versions:
https://siglentna.com/service-and-support/firmware-software/waveform-generators/#sdg2000x-series

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: trojanrabbit on November 03, 2019, 09:42:04 pm
Turn it OFF.
Any issues, I have the recovery files to help you.
Reboot and check the Sys info to see if the update was successful.

I just checked the FW release notes and there's no mention of intermediate FW versions to install before installing the latest.  :-//
https://siglentna.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2019/09/SDG2000X-Firmware-Revise-History-Update-Instructions.pdf
There's a note for 2.01.01.17R5 so that's the version I would upgrade to first before installing the latest.

Come back and report how things went.  :popcorn:

Edit
SDG2000X last four FW versions:
https://siglentna.com/service-and-support/firmware-software/waveform-generators/#sdg2000x-series

Turned it off, waited a few seconds and turned back on.  Still at 2.01.01.12R1

I'll take your advice and try 2.01.01.17R5

Thanks
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: trojanrabbit on November 03, 2019, 10:11:07 pm
Two step process got me to 2.01.0135R3B1

Interesting that the hardware version stayed at 01-07-00-40-00. I thought I had seen some responses where the Hardware version tracked the Software version

Thanks again!  Now to see if it behaves better in LabVIEW
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: trojanrabbit on November 04, 2019, 03:26:11 pm
Which it does not.  Actually it’s pretty non-responsive to LabVIEW, at least the sweep-setting commands.  The Siglent-supplied VI just sends a massively long string setting all the parameters at once.  Maybe that’s too much for the generator to handle.  Not the first time I’ve had to fix manufacturer-supplied VIs.

One thing I did like to see added is a “TV signal” as part of the internal arbitrary waveform library.  I dreaded having to define one myself.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: ahope on November 09, 2019, 10:51:04 am
I jsut got the 2042X, and discovered the Labview drivers that are available for download are too new for my labview 2014 home edition.
Anyone got labview 2014 drivers for 2042X? I see I have the same problem with my siglent  3045s and 1202X-e, those labview drivers are also too new for 2014.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: JDubU on November 09, 2019, 03:55:26 pm
ahope:

Have you tried this one?

https://siglentna.com/service-and-support/firmware-software/waveform-generators/#sdg2000x-series

    SDGX Labview Driver 1.0.1 (Saved for 2014 version) (Release Date 05.14.19 )    https://siglentna.com/download/8860/
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: ahope on November 10, 2019, 03:17:08 pm
ahope:

Have you tried this one?

https://siglentna.com/service-and-support/firmware-software/waveform-generators/#sdg2000x-series

    SDGX Labview Driver 1.0.1 (Saved for 2014 version) (Release Date 05.14.19 )    https://siglentna.com/download/8860/

Thanks JDubU! that solved the labview 2014 for the 2042X. I was looking at Siglent´s eu website (siglenteu.com), and it was not there. But it was on the na site.

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: 1001 on November 21, 2019, 09:29:34 pm
I plan to buy the Siglent SDG2042X, the last firmware version is 2.01.01.35R3B1, so I'd like to know which is the best way to hack it, downgrade->hack->upgrade or using this way:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg2042x-hack-door-closed/msg2409867/#msg2409867 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg2042x-hack-door-closed/msg2409867/#msg2409867)
whitout dowgrade and upgrade?
 :-BROKE
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: hansibull on November 27, 2019, 08:06:25 pm
I plan to buy the Siglent SDG2042X, the last firmware version is 2.01.01.35R3B1, so I'd like to know which is the best way to hack it, downgrade->hack->upgrade or using this way:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg2042x-hack-door-closed/msg2409867/#msg2409867 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg2042x-hack-door-closed/msg2409867/#msg2409867)
whitout dowgrade and upgrade?
 :-BROKE

I just turned my SDG2042X into the 120 MHz model three weeks ago; see this thread (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/need-help-choosing-a-sub-$500-signal-generator/msg2775294/#msg2775294).
I started by hacking the firmware the generator came with. Then a user pointed out that a new firmware version was available. I upgraded to this firmware, and the "hack" still worked like a charm. The new FW is definitly recommended, since it fixes some small, annoying GUI quirks.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: khutch004 on December 02, 2019, 02:18:37 pm
I plan to buy the Siglent SDG2042X, the last firmware version is 2.01.01.35R3B1, so I'd like to know which is the best way to hack it, downgrade->hack->upgrade or using this way:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg2042x-hack-door-closed/msg2409867/#msg2409867 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg2042x-hack-door-closed/msg2409867/#msg2409867)
whitout dowgrade and upgrade?
 :-BROKE

The second method works well and is easier, in my opinion. In step 10) you have to remember that the command "wq" needs to be typed ":wq". The colon is necessary to let vi know that the wq is an ex command. My generator came with the previous SW version so I cannot guarantee that the method works with the latest version.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on December 17, 2019, 08:56:10 am
New firmware update for SDG2000X models to address possible front panel button debounce issues.

Version 2.01.01.35R3B2
https://int.siglent.com/upload_file/zip/firmware/Signal_generator/SDG2000X_2.01.01.35R3B2_EN.zip
14.7 MB

Release notes
Optimized debounce of the front panel buttons.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: McBryce on December 17, 2019, 09:05:31 am
Any news about the SHS806 firmware?

McBryce.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: NoisyBoy on December 17, 2019, 06:18:32 pm
Hey tautech, thanks for the info.  Updated my unit, nice to see how Siglent keeps up with the firmware update on a regular basis, the update was easy and effortless.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: ebastler on December 17, 2019, 06:39:36 pm
Release notes
Optimized debounce of the front panel buttons.

Only one change, but a much-appreciated one! The way the function buttons below the screen also serve to toggle between modes (e.g. amplitude/offset vs. low/high level), it is really annoying when they bounce and register extra keypresses. Despite my attempts with various techniques -- gentle pushing, resolute pushing, pecking, ... -- some of the function buttons on my unit have driven me nuts!

Will try that update tonight. Thank you for the heads-up, tautech!
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on December 17, 2019, 06:54:49 pm
Release notes
Optimized debounce of the front panel buttons.

Only one change, but a much-appreciated one! The way the function buttons below the screen also serve to toggle between modes (e.g. amplitude/offset vs. low/high level), it is really annoying when they bounce and register extra keypresses. Despite my attempts with various techniques -- gentle pushing, resolute pushing, pecking, ... -- some of the function buttons on my unit have driven me nuts!

Will try that update tonight. Thank you for the heads-up, tautech!
I saw this debounce issue in the very first SDG I owned, a SDG1010 and yes it's a right PITA if you get one that does it. Not seen it again in any the # of demo SDG's I've had.

It's pleasing Siglent may have found a SW solution but please do keep us posted to the success of this SW patch.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: ebastler on December 17, 2019, 08:06:23 pm
I am pleased to report that the software debouncing is working very nicely indeed! I have not experienced any unintended double-presses since I installed the update. Some very light, sloppy touches (which I believe the previous firmware would have detected, once or as multiple presses) now remain undetected. But that is not a problem; as long as I fully press the button, it registers safely.

Turns out I had missed the previous update, so I got some nice new features too. Usability-wise, the little indicator arrows to show the current mode of the function knobs are nice (I indeed wasn't always sure whether white or gray background indicates the current selection). And the "parameter limit" error message is gone for good; hooray!

Thanks again from a happy user!
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: xzswq21 on January 02, 2020, 07:26:44 pm
Last year I wanted to buy a Siglent signal generator. I remember they offered 30~50 % discount! I couldn’t believed it. But I couldn’t buy it!
This year I saved my money to buy a Siglent signal generator but today  I checked Amazon but there is no special discount! I have forgotten the date Siglent had offered the discount.
Do you know When Siglent is gonna offer Special discount?

Thanks
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on January 02, 2020, 09:48:58 pm
Last year I wanted to buy a Siglent signal generator. I remember they offered 30~50 % discount! I couldn’t believed it. But I couldn’t buy it!
This year I saved my money to buy a Siglent signal generator but today  I checked Amazon but there is no special discount! I have forgotten the date Siglent had offered the discount.
Do you know When Siglent is gonna offer Special discount?

Thanks
If you're in the UK this SH one is available for 330 Pounds:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/buysellwanted/fs-uk-siglent-sdg2042x-signal-generator/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/buysellwanted/fs-uk-siglent-sdg2042x-signal-generator/)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: level6 on January 15, 2020, 04:49:06 pm
So I just received my SDG2042x and I went to download the latest firmware and EasyWave from Siglent's website. Windows Defender SmartScreen is blocking these files, declaring it might malicious content.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: JDubU on January 15, 2020, 05:57:07 pm
From:
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/security/threat-protection/windows-defender-smartscreen/windows-defender-smartscreen-overview


"Windows Defender SmartScreen determines whether a downloaded app or app installer is potentially malicious by:
...
"Checking downloaded files against a list of files that are well known and downloaded by many Windows users. If the file isn't on that list, Windows Defender SmartScreen shows a warning, advising caution."

Files from Siglent's download page would most likely not be on that list.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on January 15, 2020, 05:58:40 pm
So I just received my SDG2042x and I went to download the latest firmware and EasyWave from Siglent's website. Windows Defender SmartScreen is blocking these files, declaring it might malicious content.
No such issues here on a W10 PC running Chrome.
All 3 sites look fine.
US:
https://siglentna.com/service-and-support/firmware-software/waveform-generators/#sdg2000x-series
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: level6 on January 15, 2020, 06:09:23 pm
So I just received my SDG2042x and I went to download the latest firmware and EasyWave from Siglent's website. Windows Defender SmartScreen is blocking these files, declaring it might malicious content.
No such issues here on a W10 PC running Chrome.
All 3 sites look fine.
US:
https://siglentna.com/service-and-support/firmware-software/waveform-generators/#sdg2000x-series

Chrome seems to work. I'm having the problem when using Edge, which is the browser I normally use.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: JDubU on January 15, 2020, 06:21:46 pm
Windows Defender SmartScreen is an optional add in extension for Chrome:

https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/windows-defender-browser/bkbeeeffjjeopflfhgeknacdieedcoml?hl=en-US

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: level6 on January 18, 2020, 10:07:49 pm
Is there a known issue on the maximum length for a file name you can send to the SDG2042? I created a wave form and saved it to a file with a name that was 20 characters long. When I try to load it into a channel the entire device locks up. I shortened the name to 16 characters and it loaded just fine.

I'm running the latest firmware.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: vr2whf on January 22, 2020, 07:13:57 pm
I have my SDG2042X "improved" to 120MHz bandwidth successfully. The product type shown on system info now becomes "SDG2122X" and I am able to select the sine wave frequency up to 120MHz.

When I put the signal to oscilloscope for verification, the output waveform looks very good until 118MHz (for Channel 1) and 117MHz (for Channel 2) respectively. When I set the frequency higher than that, the frequency reads by oscilloscope doesn't increase much.

Not sure what really happens.  Do I need a full calibration after hack to SDG2122X? Any hints?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on January 22, 2020, 07:30:19 pm
I have my SDG2042X "improved" to 120MHz bandwidth successfully. The product type shown on system info now becomes "SDG2122X" and I am able to select the sine wave frequency up to 120MHz.

When I put the signal to oscilloscope for verification, the output waveform looks very good until 118MHz (for Channel 1) and 117MHz (for Channel 2) respectively. When I set the frequency higher than that, the frequency reads by oscilloscope doesn't increase much.

Not sure what really happens.  Do I need a full calibration after hack to SDG2122X? Any hints?
What oscilloscope ?
What BW ?
What connection type is used ?
Are both units 10 MHz referenced ?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: vr2whf on January 22, 2020, 07:45:37 pm
I have my SDG2042X "improved" to 120MHz bandwidth successfully. The product type shown on system info now becomes "SDG2122X" and I am able to select the sine wave frequency up to 120MHz.

When I put the signal to oscilloscope for verification, the output waveform looks very good until 118MHz (for Channel 1) and 117MHz (for Channel 2) respectively. When I set the frequency higher than that, the frequency reads by oscilloscope doesn't increase much.

Not sure what really happens.  Do I need a full calibration after hack to SDG2122X? Any hints?
What oscilloscope ?
What BW ?
What connection type is used ?
Are both units 10 MHz referenced ?

Oh my bad. You remind me. :) I am using an "improved" Rigol DS1054Z that supposed to have reliable BW up to 100MHz only... Let me check the SDG2042X output frequency with the HP53132A counter later.

BTW, anyone has done a calibration/adjustment on SDG2042X? I notice a service manual for SDG2042X and it mentions the Python script for the adjustment but I am not able to find it from the Internet.

http://www.lapanthera.hu/userfiles/webshop/products/attachments/Generator-SDG2042X-Service-Manual.pdf (http://www.lapanthera.hu/userfiles/webshop/products/attachments/Generator-SDG2042X-Service-Manual.pdf)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on January 22, 2020, 07:52:37 pm

BTW, anyone has done a calibration/adjustment on SDG2042X?
Run the internal self cal and enjoy your 40 120 MHz AWG.   ;)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: petert on January 23, 2020, 04:32:56 am
I only found options under utility to calibrate the touch screen. Where is the internal self calibration?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: vr2whf on January 23, 2020, 08:41:16 am
I only found options under utility to calibrate the touch screen. Where is the internal self calibration?

On page 54 of service manual.

Channel Self Adjustment
This adjustment is for internal control channel and signal channel. Through
feedback circuits of the feedback channel and signal channel, this adjustment
helps to obtain the actual working performance for components from signal
channels.
1. After the feedback channel adjustment completed, disconnect the two
BNC cables on CH1 and CH2.
2. Input the password “123654” under the system info interface to show the
SelfCal menu and perform the self adjustment.
3. Once the “Self Adjust” begins, the generator turns to adjustment interface
and the progress bar displays on the screen. In about 20 seconds it will
reach 100%, which indicates completing of the self-adjust. The progress
bar will disappear automatically after 2 seconds.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: vr2whf on January 23, 2020, 08:42:06 am

BTW, anyone has done a calibration/adjustment on SDG2042X?
Run the internal self cal and enjoy your 40 120 MHz AWG.   ;)

Do you experience any improvement after doing the "self cal"?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: ebastler on January 23, 2020, 08:49:01 am
The service manual says that one should only run self-cal after having done a calibration of the internal feedback channel. But that latter calibration requires Python scripts which, I believe, are unavailable to end users. So, can we run a meaningful calibration?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on January 23, 2020, 08:54:27 am

BTW, anyone has done a calibration/adjustment on SDG2042X?
Run the internal self cal and enjoy your 40 120 MHz AWG.   ;)

Do you experience any improvement after doing the "self cal"?
If the AWG meets the Accuracy and Output Flatness specs listed under Output Characteristics on P8 of the datasheet I leave it alone.
https://int.siglent.com/products-document/5.html?DId=25/
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Qw3rtzuiop on January 23, 2020, 09:21:43 am
The scripts were available to download from the north american website but Siglent removed them.
Fortunately they are still linked on the chinese site.

Here is the link:
https://www.siglent.com/u_file/download/19_07_18/3b2a90b8a2.rar (https://www.siglent.com/u_file/download/19_07_18/3b2a90b8a2.rar)

Download and save them in case they get deleted.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: danielbriggs on January 23, 2020, 12:22:39 pm
Just a note to say, took delivery of an SDG2042X, *cough* followed everything in John95's 14-step process *cough* and all worked very well. This was done on FW: 2.01.01.23R8 factory supplied version.
Then verified the performance with a scope = 120MHz goodness.

Then today I did a plain old regular firmware upgade to 2.01.01.35R3B2 and all went smoothly + 120MHz performance still remains.

Posting should anyone find this useful if, like me thought there was a chance of going from a liberated 23R8 to 35R3B2 would reverse the mod... it doesn't appear to.

All the best,
Dan
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: petert on January 23, 2020, 01:34:16 pm
I had the same experience as you as mentioned in the hack thread (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg2042x-hack-door-closed/msg2883290/#msg2883290). However I found that the peak-to-peak voltage decreases with frequency, soon after 40 MHz.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: nctnico on January 29, 2020, 12:24:30 pm
I've found a bug in FM modulation. With an external 10MHz reference clock, 10MHz output signal, FM frequency of 10mHz, triangle modulation waveform and a frequency deviation of 5mHz the output signal will slowly (a few ns per hours) phase shift in respect to the external reference.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Sensei on March 13, 2020, 04:44:23 pm
Hi guys

I have SDG2042x hacked to SDG2122x, firmware: 2.01.01.35R3B2, hardware 02-02-00-40-00.
Does your SDG2000x copy have the front panel knob working intermittently? I spin for a few seconds and it's ok, then it stops working for a second. The knob doesn't respond at all when turning faster. If this is a software error, it definitely needs to be corrected.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: MathWizard on March 17, 2020, 03:02:17 pm
Hi so I just upgraded my spd3303x-e with the FW I found on page 9 from tv84
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ads-firmware-file-format/200/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ads-firmware-file-format/200/)

In 2 weeks I'm getting the SDG2042X. What page should I go to, for the main procedure people have been using, so I can study up ?


As for really learning how this stuff works, and getting into hardware hacking, (I have a BusPirate on the way), what should I do, learn python or some C language ?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: MathWizard on March 20, 2020, 12:13:14 am
I'm buying 1 of these in 15 days if people go to work in Ontario

I can't wait, then I'll try and upgrade it. I could just afford the 2082, but thank Siglent for making either near   my budget.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: ebastler on March 20, 2020, 06:34:45 am
In 2 weeks I'm getting the SDG2042X. What page should I go to, for the main procedure people have been using, so I can study up ?

Assuming you refer to the "upgrade" procedure, this step-by-step list is still current, I believe:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg2042x-hack-door-closed/msg2409867/#msg2409867 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg2042x-hack-door-closed/msg2409867/#msg2409867)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: colorado.rob on March 29, 2020, 01:38:58 am
It seems that with the last firmware update I applied, the undocumented LXI SCDP (screendump) command stopped working.  Can anyone else confirm?  I know this used to work because I have lots of screendumps from my SDG2000X.  I use the same program to do screen capture from all of my Siglent devices.

It's not documented in https://siglentna.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2019/12/SDG_Programming-Guide_PG02-E04A.pdf

Can someone confirm whether this was explicitly removed?  There's nothing in the release notes about it.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Bad_Driver on July 14, 2020, 03:19:45 pm
I‘m new in the SDG2xxx owners club for a week . After dealing for month with the weaknesses of
the cheap (but for the money not that bad) Feeltec 6900 I decided to stop all efforts for further improvements
and ordered a SDG2042x with Welectron in Germany.
It came with the latest firmware and with a little service and a prepared thumb drive it improved itself into
a SDG2122x  :-+
It‘s worth mentioning that the telnet access with Putty didn‘d work but with Debian in the new Windows Linux system environment.

It‘s childish but the first thing I tried was to set up my own FM station(for some minutes).
Searching for a empty frequency around 100 MHz, deviation of 75kHz and modulation extern by my iPod
with „Stairway to heaven“. Antenna 75 cm wire. And it works! That was a thing I wanna do for 50 years  ^-^

Don‘t bash me for that but it was a thing that has to be done....

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: pascal_sweden on July 14, 2020, 03:25:06 pm
Great experiment!

This made me think of the Mr. Microphone toy that was sold in the US back in the Eighties :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lF4ny7KivzA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lF4ny7KivzA)

It‘s childish but the first thing I tried was to set up my own FM station(for some minutes).
Searching for a empty frequency around 100 MHz, deviation of 75kHz and modulation extern by my iPod
with „Stairway to heaven“. Antenna 75 cm wire. And it works! That was a thing I wanna do for 50 years  ^-^
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Bad_Driver on July 14, 2020, 05:06:59 pm
Shit! Much smaller and so much cheaper than the SDG  |O
And battery powered as well  >:(

Thanks for this funny commercial! But I think you got it  :-DD
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: dropkick on July 14, 2020, 08:23:41 pm
Please...
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Bad_Driver on July 14, 2020, 09:23:14 pm
Waynes World, Waynes world, party time excellent!!!
I like this movie! Especially the Bohemian Rhapsody performance  :-+

And this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAWJdXJvngU&feature=share (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAWJdXJvngU&feature=share)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: fourfathom on July 14, 2020, 10:21:22 pm
I've found a bug in FM modulation. With an external 10MHz reference clock, 10MHz output signal, FM frequency of 10mHz, triangle modulation waveform and a frequency deviation of 5mHz the output signal will slowly (a few ns per hours) phase shift in respect to the external reference.
I recently got a Siglent 2042X (I'm using it to test a Time Interval Counter that I'm building), and I noticed that the 1Hz output isn't exactly 1Hz (referenced to the 10MHz clock output).  I don't have my notes handy, but it was off a few tenths of a uHz (micro Hertz).  The minimum frequency steps seemed to come in two sizes, one 2x the other.  The frequency generated was always within the specified 1uHz, but wasn't exact.

This is the behavior I would expect from a binary DDS (Direct Digital Synthesis) / NCO (Numerically Controlled Oscillator), where no matter how large the numerator, the power-of-two denominator doesn't allow certain ratios to be generated.  It's not a problem or a bug, since the unit does meet its specs, but it is interesting to note.  It's also nice to see that the 10ns resolution of my Time Interval Counter lets me quickly measure these frequency relationships -- with a typical gated frequency counter I would have had to wait about twelve days for even a clue that the frequencies weren't exact.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: dropkick on July 19, 2020, 07:07:45 am
External 10Mhz reference

My SDG2042X doesn't seem to remember the External setting for the reference Clock upon power-on.  Is there a way to make it stick between reboots? Works fine otherwise, detecting signal presence/loss but it's rather annoying when it pukes out its own clock on the line.

Running latest firmware ver.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on July 19, 2020, 09:55:10 am
External 10Mhz reference

My SDG2042X doesn't seem to remember the External setting for the reference Clock upon power-on.  Is there a way to make it stick between reboots? Works fine otherwise, detecting signal presence/loss but it's rather annoying when it pukes out its own clock on the line.

Running latest firmware ver.
Check the last firmware release notes and ensure you meet the conditions for external 10 MHz reference.
https://siglentna.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2019/12/SDG2000X-Firmware-Revise-History-Update-Instructions.pdf
These are for version 2.01.01.35R3B1:
5. Added an icon to indicate clock source is internal or external.
Internal: (icon) External: (icon)
External and the clock is lost: (icon)
6. Changed the clock switch strategy: When the clock source is set to External and no actual external clock signal is being received, the clock source will not switch to Internal automatically but the clock icon will indicate that external clock is lost.

Also, check you have the Power ON setting to Last (used settings).
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Hexley on July 19, 2020, 05:01:28 pm
I recently got a Siglent 2042X (I'm using it to test a Time Interval Counter that I'm building), and I noticed that the 1Hz output isn't exactly 1Hz....

Another manifestation of that: set channel 1 to 1.000000 Hz, and channel 2 to 10.0000 Mhz, then measure their ratio. It reads exactly 9 999 999:1 on my HP 53131A counter, rather than the ideal 10 000 000:1. (Test done with an SDG1062X).

Again, each channel is within spec. But this experiments highlights a side effect of "1 uHz" accuracy when generating two signals with a frequency ratio > 106 -- and it did have me chasing a phantom "bug" in a phase detector design before realizing what was going on :-)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: thinkfat on July 19, 2020, 07:37:55 pm
I recently got a Siglent 2042X (I'm using it to test a Time Interval Counter that I'm building), and I noticed that the 1Hz output isn't exactly 1Hz....

Another manifestation of that: set channel 1 to 1.000000 Hz, and channel 2 to 10.0000 Mhz, then measure their ratio. It reads exactly 9 999 999:1 on my HP 53131A counter, rather than the ideal 10 000 000:1. (Test done with an SDG1062X).

Again, each channel is within spec. But this experiments highlights a side effect of "1 uHz" accuracy when generating two signals with a frequency ratio > 106 -- and it did have me chasing a phantom "bug" in a phase detector design before realizing what was going on :-)

I fell into the exact same trap. I was trying to qualify a time interval counter and wondered why there was a 90° phase shift every second. I went through the code at least a dozen times, checked for numerical stability, changed the whole integer math to "double" only to realize eventually that it was the generator that was acting up.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: TurboTom on July 19, 2020, 09:26:43 pm
Same crap with SDG6000. Tested other generators that I've got; Rigol DG4000 is doing it correctly, same with MSO2000S integrated generator (though phase alignment isn't working accurately). DG800/900 is failing all the way, no stable phase coupling possible in current firmware version above frequency ratios of 1:3 :o (at lest at low frequencies), continuous drift observable. Could it be that difficult to get the math right??
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: fourfathom on July 19, 2020, 10:04:19 pm
I recently got a Siglent 2042X (I'm using it to test a Time Interval Counter that I'm building), and I noticed that the 1Hz output isn't exactly 1Hz....

Another manifestation of that: set channel 1 to 1.000000 Hz, and channel 2 to 10.0000 Mhz, then measure their ratio. It reads exactly 9 999 999:1 on my HP 53131A counter, rather than the ideal 10 000 000:1. (Test done with an SDG1062X).

Again, each channel is within spec. But this experiments highlights a side effect of "1 uHz" accuracy when generating two signals with a frequency ratio > 106 -- and it did have me chasing a phantom "bug" in a phase detector design before realizing what was going on :-)

I fell into the exact same trap. I was trying to qualify a time interval counter and wondered why there was a 90° phase shift every second. I went through the code at least a dozen times, checked for numerical stability, changed the whole integer math to "double" only to realize eventually that it was the generator that was acting up.

The only reason that I located this "bug" is that I had already been using a mash-up three-output clock generator for testing my Time Interval Counter design.  My little clock gen uses the Silicon Labs Si5351 (on a breakout board) and an Adafruit "Trinket M0" controller, all stuffed into an Altoids tin and USB powered.  The clocks are all locked to a common reference xtal, and extremely programmable with fractional PLL feedback dividers and fractional output dividers.  The frequency accuracy isn't great, but the ratios are spot-on.  I've also tested my design with the 10MHz and 1Hz outputs of a Trimble "Thunderbolt" GPDSO, so I knew what I was seeing was due to the Siglent, and not my design.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: dropkick on July 20, 2020, 05:50:39 pm
" Also, check you have the Power ON setting to Last (used settings). "


That was the trick! Thanks!
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Bad_Driver on July 30, 2020, 08:12:41 am
During reading this board I noticed in the earlier posts that there is a way to set output level units to "dBm".
I scrolled thru every menu and thru the whole manual but I couldn't find how to do that.  |O
Help needed!

I also read in the other board that the cheaper SDG1000X series can calculate the right output voltage with dBm for any load (50 to 100kohms) but the SDG2000x not. But there is also nothing
in the SDG1000X manual (I thought I could use this for the SDG2000X)

To have that would be a big advantage for me (600 ohms dBm units output for audio). With newer/upcoming firmware???

How to set units to dBm? Sorry for that dumb question.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on July 30, 2020, 08:16:44 am
During reading this board I noticed in the earlier posts that there is a way to set output level units to "dBm".
I scrolled thru every menu and thru the whole manual but I couldn't find how to do that.  |O
Help needed!

I also read in the other board that the cheaper SDG1000X series can calculate the right output voltage with dBm for any load (50 to 100kohms) but the SDG2000x not. But there is also nothing
in the SDG1000X manual (I thought I could use this for the SDG2000X)

To have that would be a big advantage for me (600 ohms dBm units output for audio). With newer/upcoming firmware???

How to set units to dBm? Sorry for that dumb question.
Is there a change
Set the output to 50 ohm impedance then dBm units become available to select.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Bad_Driver on July 30, 2020, 08:43:01 am
Thanks Tautech, I use 50ohms output, but how do I the unit change?
I can’t find it. Have you any further advice or picture of the screen?

Sorry to come up with such an question but a hint in the manual would be helpful.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Bad_Driver on July 30, 2020, 08:48:36 am
I found the answer in the SDG6000 manual.
With numeric keyboard ....

Thanks again!
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on July 30, 2020, 08:56:29 am
I found the answer in the SDG6000 manual.
With numeric keyboard ....

Thanks again!
;D
Wondered how long it might take you. These things are best remembered when you find it for yourself.  ;)

Yes just set a value with the keypad and then set the unit type from the selection available.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Messtechniker on August 08, 2020, 06:21:03 am
Got myself a Siglent SDG2042X 8)
Has the latest firmware. No need for me to pimp this thing to 120 MHz.
Got it from Meilhaus via UPS with a 6% discount. :-+
28 hours and 16 minutes elapsed from the ordering click
to hitting the power button. :-+
Currently just messing looking around. All seems to be well. :clap:

Software version is 2.01.01.35R3B2
Hardware version is 02-02-00-40-00
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Messtechniker on August 10, 2020, 02:02:58 pm
So there it is now sitting on my bench.  8) The latest embodiment of the famous Siglent SDG 2042X. Put it through its paces over the last 3 days. :blah: All is well, doing its thing. But I did note a few things which might be added or improved.

1.) There is no means of dumping the screen to a locally connected USB stick. Yes, I have found the python script to do a screen dump on a PC over the network.

On the topic of SI Units compliance:
2.) To assign names to stored data files no lower case characters are available.
3.) Inconsistent use of the space character in the GUI. Just checked R&S and Keysight. They are in the same club. :palm:

Just to quote Wikipedia:

General rules
General rules for writing SI units and quantities apply to text that is either handwritten or produced using an automated process:
The value of a quantity is written as a number followed by a space (representing a multiplication sign) and a unit symbol; e.g., 2.21 kg, 7.3×102 m2, 22 K. This rule explicitly includes the percent sign (%) and the symbol for degrees Celsius (°C).[Exceptions are the symbols for plane angular degrees, minutes, and seconds (°, ′, and ″, respectively), which are placed immediately after the number with no intervening space.


4.) System Info gives the number of boot cycles. Giving the number of operating hours would be more useful. Probably impossible because there is no RTC.

5.) In sweep mode there is no means of outputting a signal corresponding to the momentary frequency.  I.e. a 0 to 5 V ramp, for example at a connector on the rear or through channel 2. Same applies to many even more expensive generators from R&S or Keysight for that matter.
Moreover, there is no SCPI command to query the frequency while sweeping.
Such a signal would be used for the X-axis when doing frequency response plots.

6.) Fat NI-Visa thing.  :-- Does not matter much to me because I’ll probably never have to use it.

7.) Fan noise is probably normal. It’s audible and I don’t like it.  :-- I know I am oversensitive to fan noise, so forget it. :blah: :horse:


Even so, I am a happy camper. :phew:

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: jhenderson0107 on August 10, 2020, 07:49:00 pm
... . Yes, I have found the python script to do a screen dump on a PC over the network.
Please provide a link to that script. 
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Messtechniker on August 10, 2020, 08:33:01 pm
Here:

https://gist.github.com/mobilinkd/8a07cc124946c87715c6a1458118411e
 (https://gist.github.com/mobilinkd/8a07cc124946c87715c6a1458118411e)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: jhenderson0107 on August 10, 2020, 09:18:17 pm
That's for the Siglent Scope, not the generator.  I haven't been able to find a means of retrieving the generator's screen. 
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: adamgreig on August 10, 2020, 10:57:32 pm
My script for screenshotting an SDG2042X is attached, but it looks the same as the previously posted script, i.e. uses the SCDP command. Definitely works on the SDG.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: jhenderson0107 on August 10, 2020, 11:56:31 pm
Thanks to you both.  I'll give it a try. 

Update: Tried it - works like a champ. 

Here's a link to a minimal control program for the SDG2042, SDG5162 and Rigol DG800/900:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/it3yiq9v2m4ppj8/Arb.7z?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/it3yiq9v2m4ppj8/Arb.7z?dl=0)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Thebrakshow on September 16, 2020, 03:59:56 am
I seem to be facing an interesting issue automating my SDG2042X via USB/Python and wanted to see if anyone could offer some insight since this is my first time automating lab equipment. My goal for this project is to set the ABW to either the Cardiac waveform or the ECG1 waveform (M24 and M85... both of the programming manual reference these built in waveform incorrectly BTW. that's off topic though). I want to vary the frequency every 1 second (1Hz to 3Hz with 16.6667mHz steps). The exact time interval is not crucial, what is crucial is that when the AWG receives a command to switch freq that it does so at the beginning of a cycle (or the end). What I'm noticing is that the AWG is switching immediately (no regard to current position of waveform cycle) so its leaving me with runt cycles. This is causing a lot of erroneous data since my circuit is reading the time R/R time intervals of the cardiac waveform (simply put, the time between the large spikes in a cardiac wave form).

my python script uses the ARWV command to set the gen on the correct wave form
Code: [Select]
dev.write('C1:ARWV INDEX,24')Then I use a simple while loop to increment and decrement the frequency with the basic wave command BSWV
Code: [Select]
dev.write('C1:BSWV FRQ,xxxx')where xxxx is a float variable

Does anyone know how I could avoid this issue? or maybe there is a command that I'm overlooking that would queue the command and execute them on the beginning of a wave's cycle?

Also I'd like to note that, yes I could just use the ramp function and set the symmetry to 50% (this works perfectly without the issue i'm facing) however, the goal for the future is to vary the frequencies in a particular/pseudo random way.
Thanks for any help!
-Brak
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: TurboTom on September 16, 2020, 10:08:34 am
Instead of using the sweep function to ramp the signal frequency, could you possibly frequency modulate the signal and use a very slow noise signal (random) for that? Or even use the other channel as a modulation source (maybe in DC mode) and program this externally to provide your required ECG frequency? Just a few ideas that may be more complex but might lead to the functionality that you need.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Messtechniker on November 02, 2020, 08:12:25 am
Been extensively using my SDG 2042X over the past weeks to repair a well damaged R&S UPGR Phsophometer. Some repair details on the Wellenkino site in German only. Thus some remarks on the SDG 2042X:

1.) The button lights are not bright enough in slightly elevated lighting conditions. Thus it is not easily possible to see if the Output button has inadvertently been turned off, for example. Briefly caused a bit of panic confusion.
2.) Amplitude unit is dBm. For Audio we prefer dBu.
3.) Max. unbalanced output is +19 dBu in the audio range. + 20 dBu would have been more convenient. Of course with Channel 2 phase inverted one gets 6 dB more balanced. But this is a workaround.
4.) Glad that I don't necessarily need to use the touchscreen. I for my part prefer the buttons.
5.) Frequency and amplitude accuracy is good enough for audio work. Distortion performance is not. But that was clearly stated in the published specs. So no surprises in this area.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: rf-loop on November 05, 2020, 04:58:57 am
Been extensively using my SDG 2042X over the past weeks to repair a well damaged R&S UPGR Phsophometer. Some repair details on the Wellenkino site in German only. Thus some remarks on the SDG 2042X:


2.) Amplitude unit is dBm. For Audio we prefer dBu.


Amplitude unit dBm  is  power. 0 dBm = 1mW
Universal dBm do not define what is impedance, it only tell power related to 1mW.
"Normally" it is used in 50 ohm RF systems.

dBu is Voltage level and its u come from "u = unloaded"  and why 0dBu is around 0.775Vrms all can find these audio explanations, internet is full of these.

There is one case when SDG2000X can use as it have dBu when you read dBm as dBu but only tightly in one case.

SDG2000X internal output impedance is fixed 50 ohm as usually all this kind of generators.
When user select SDG for HiZ load then level (voltage) is displayed for no load situation in output terminal. In this case user can not select dBm because impossible (infinite R).

When there is some load example 1Mohm scope input or Probe tip load effect is so low it do not need correct.
If there is some other load example 50ohm now, as ohm's law, output is half... inside 50 ohm series with outside 50ohm and Voltage over outside load is half what is displayed. But if you tell to SDG that load is 50ohm then it can correct numbers and display right.  SDG menu can select Hi-Z or Load. DEFAULT is that Load if 50 ohm. But user can also select this load value. If  load is 60 ohm then select 60 ohm and again voltage is displayed ok and also power is displayed ok. Just set true used load and all is displayed ok.


But then this audio levels mess. How world have gone to this mess I do not know and I do not want know. But this is where we need live. 
http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-db-volt.htm (http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-db-volt.htm)


dBu as far as I remember is somehow defined for 600ohm. There is a lot of history behind the 600 Ohm audio transmission standard. Today sometimes looks like no one anymore care this golden "standard" 600 Ohm.

0 dBu = 0.775Vrms volts and in 600ohm system is power is just 1mW, same as 0 dBm is 1mW without specified voltage or load so its voltage is different in 50, 60, 75, 120, 300, 600, 1kohm and so on...

If one work with audio 600ohm impedance system SDG2000X have solution.
Do not use default 50ohm Load setup, adjust it to 600ohm.
Now if you set 0dBm  level is 0dBu and you see  0.7746Vrms (1.095V pk) and if you set level for -10dBu your level is 0.2448Vrms (0.346Vpk or double Vp-p)

So as long as user work with  600 Ohm audio "standard" impedance(load)  and  have set 600 ohm load in SDG2000X menu  then dBu == dBm

Siglent or who ever can not add simply dBu if think it is just universally Voltage based to 0dBu 0.7746Vrms (roughly 2.190 Vpeak-peak) independent of load or this mysterious dB"unloaded" when it still in practice is loaded and generator do not have leveled or zero output impedance.
I do not know any serious audio equipment what have signal input without load. I have also not seen many cheap generators what have zero output impedance or leveled output. Perhaps they exist in world of audio. But example my normal audio amplifier do not even tell input impedance.
If user know his load is 4700 ohm he can set SDG for 4700 load and now he adjust 1V out he get 1V to this load. After then when he can use simple slide rule he know what is dBu. Or he use his slide rule and look how much voltage he need set for -5dBu and he set this voltage and all is ok... until he plug his output to input what have 1200 ohm load... now all is wrong until he tell this load value to generator and then set wanted level.
As far we do not have leveled output or zero(very low)  impedance output  we need know Load for set voltage independent of if we use dBV, dBv, dBu or V or what ever based to voltage.


Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Messtechniker on November 05, 2020, 06:27:47 am

If one work with audio 600ohm impedance system SDG2000X have solution.
Do not use default 50ohm Load setup, adjust it to 600ohm.
Now if you set 0dBm level is 0dBu and you see  0.7746Vrms (1.095V pk) and if you set level for -10dBu your level is 0.2448Vrms (0.346Vpk or double Vp-p)

:palm: Thanks for reminding me of this which I should have known. While making the measurements using the SDG 2042X by brain was occupied with troubleshooting the difficult target. This well-broken R&S UPGR Psophometer. But all is well now.

When setting the SDG to 600 Ohms and 0.0 dB amplitude is off by +0.7 dB. Faking the load to 495 Ohms gives the correct output of 0.7746 V as measured with the equipment given below.
 Being off by +0.7 dB seems to me a bit much. Could any other SDG 2042X (or similar) owners verify this?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: rf-loop on November 06, 2020, 07:01:41 am

If one work with audio 600ohm impedance system SDG2000X have solution.
Do not use default 50ohm Load setup, adjust it to 600ohm.
Now if you set 0dBm level is 0dBu and you see  0.7746Vrms (1.095V pk) and if you set level for -10dBu your level is 0.2448Vrms (0.346Vpk or double Vp-p)

:palm: Thanks for reminding me of this which I should have known. While making the measurements using the SDG 2042X by brain was occupied with troubleshooting the difficult target. This well-broken R&S UPGR Psophometer. But all is well now.

When setting the SDG to 600 Ohms and 0.0 dB amplitude is off by +0.7 dB. Faking the load to 495 Ohms gives the correct output of 0.7746 V as measured with the equipment given below.
 Being off by +0.7 dB seems to me a bit much. Could any other SDG 2042X (or similar) owners verify this?

Bit high: Error is 0.7dB too high.
Data sheet tell +/- 0.3dB flatness with 50 Ohm system in 0 - 100MHz range and 2.5Vpp level @10kHz
Accuracy  +/- (1% +1mV) @10kHz Sine 0V offset
Internal output impedance 49.5 - 50.5 Ohm @10kHz Sine

Then output set for 0dBm (not 0dB) for 600ohm what need give 0.7746Vrms  but voltage is too high and you change load to 495ohm and then voltage level is 0,7746Vrms.   
When I try to calculate it looks like something is weird or least I can not get match this Load change... except if there is bug in SDG math or some kind of calibration issue  or some other thing is wrong.

Using 0dBm on 600Ohm system level is 0.7746 Vrms
If it is 0.7dB high it is 0.8395 Vrms  there is roughly 65mVrms difference. What all separate errors it include.
Next measurements may give more result and also there is used frequency what are used in specifications.

So please can you do these measurements.
Set generator first fully to factory defaults for avoid any "oops" mistakes..

1.
-Set Load Hi-Z and keep it until said other set value
-Set Sine and set 10 kHz. Set output level 0.775 Vrms  and keep until sais other value.
-Set/check DC offset 0 and check it do not have any residue, if have fine adjust for real Zero DC offset and keep this in all next.

-Measure open circuit voltage level Vrms (AC True Rms or AC+DC True Rms) Result =______  (default = 0.775 Vrms)
-Connect 600 ohm load and measure loaded voltage level Vrms, Result =______   (default = 0.7154 Vrms)
-Connect 100 ohm load and measure loaded voltage level Vrms, Result =______   (default = 0.5167 Vrms)

2.
-Set Load 50 Ohm and keep it
-Output level set  for 0.775 Vrms
-Measure Open circuit voltage level Vrms, Result =______   (default 1.550 Vrms)
-Connect 50 Ohm Load and measure loaded voltage level Vrms, Result =______  (default 0.775 Vrms)
-Set output level for 0dBm and measure loaded voltage level Vrms, Result =______  (default 0.2236 Vrms)
-Set output level for 6dBm and measure loaded voltage level Vrms, Result =______  (default 0.4462 Vrms)
-Set output level back for 0dBm
-Disconnect 50 ohm load and measure open circuit voltage level Vrms, Result =______  (default 0.4472 Vrms)

3.
-Set Load 600 Ohm and keep it
-Set Output level for 0.775 Vrms
-Measure open circuit voltage level Vrms, Result =______    (default 0.8396 Vrms)
-Connect 600 Ohm Load and measure loaded voltage level Vrms, Result =______  (default 0.775 Vrms)
-Set output level for 0dBm and measure loaded voltage level Vrms, Result =______ (default 0.775 Vrms (ideal 0.7746 Vrms))
-Set output level for 6dBm and measure loaded voltage level Vrms, Result =______  (default 1.546 Vrms)
-Disconnect 600 Ohm load and measure open circuit voltage level Vrms, Result =______  (default 1.675 Vrms)

Sorry if there is some inaccuracies (I hope not real mistakes) in values, I use slide rule.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Messtechniker on November 06, 2020, 11:12:18 am
Did the measurements as given above. Got the expected values in each case.

When applying real load resistances to the generator I get the following:

Load setting on the generator = 600 Ohm
Real load / dB reading on the 34465A
600 Ohm / 0.00 dB
1 k Ohm / +0.2 dB
1.5 kOhm / + 0.43 dB
3 kOhm / +0.55 dB
5 k Ohm / + 0.6 dB
10 k Ohm / +0.66 dB
1 M Ohm and over / + 0,70 dB



Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: rf-loop on November 06, 2020, 01:22:11 pm
Quote from: rf-loop
So please can you do these measurements.
Set generator first fully to factory defaults for avoid any "oops" mistakes..

1.
-Set Load Hi-Z and keep it until said other set value
-Set Sine and set 10 kHz. Set output level 0.775 Vrms  and keep until sais other value.
-Set/check DC offset 0 and check it do not have any residue, if have fine adjust for real Zero DC offset and keep this in all next.

-Measure open circuit voltage level Vrms (AC True Rms or AC+DC True Rms) Result =______  (default = 0.775 Vrms)
-Connect 600 ohm load and measure loaded voltage level Vrms, Result =______   (default = 0.7154 Vrms)
-Connect 100 ohm load and measure loaded voltage level Vrms, Result =______   (default = 0.5167 Vrms)

2.
-Set Load 50 Ohm and keep it
-Output level set  for 0.775 Vrms
-Measure Open circuit voltage level Vrms, Result =______   (default 1.550 Vrms)
-Connect 50 Ohm Load and measure loaded voltage level Vrms, Result =______  (default 0.775 Vrms)
-Set output level for 0dBm and measure loaded voltage level Vrms, Result =______  (default 0.2236 Vrms)
-Set output level for 6dBm and measure loaded voltage level Vrms, Result =______  (default 0.4462 Vrms)
-Set output level back for 0dBm
-Disconnect 50 ohm load and measure open circuit voltage level Vrms, Result =______  (default 0.4472 Vrms)

3.
-Set Load 600 Ohm and keep it
-Set Output level for 0.775 Vrms
-Measure open circuit voltage level Vrms, Result =______    (default 0.8396 Vrms)
-Connect 600 Ohm Load and measure loaded voltage level Vrms, Result =______  (default 0.775 Vrms)
-Set output level for 0dBm and measure loaded voltage level Vrms, Result =______ (default 0.775 Vrms (ideal 0.7746 Vrms))
-Set output level for 6dBm and measure loaded voltage level Vrms, Result =______  (default 1.546 Vrms)
-Disconnect 600 Ohm load and measure open circuit voltage level Vrms, Result =______  (default 1.675 Vrms)




Did the measurements as given above. Got the expected values in each case.

So it works just right as designed.

When applying real load resistances to the generator I get the following:

Load setting on the generator = 600 Ohm
Real load / dB reading on the 34465A
600 Ohm / 0.00 dB
1 k Ohm / +0.2 dB
1.5 kOhm / + 0.43 dB
3 kOhm / +0.55 dB
5 k Ohm / + 0.6 dB
10 k Ohm / +0.66 dB
1 M Ohm and over / + 0,70 dB

"600 Ohm / 0.00 dB"  Just as it need be  when looks Voltage levels when all is ok.
Open load voltage  0.8396 Vrms is 0.7dB higher (dBu) higher than  600 Ohm loaded voltage 0dBu (0dBm 600 Ohm) what is 0.7746 Vrms. So it works ok and internal math is just ok.


Quote from: Messtechniker
When setting the SDG to 600 Ohms and 0.0 dB amplitude is off by +0.7 dB. Faking the load to 495 Ohms gives the correct output of 0.7746 V as measured with the equipment given below.
Being off by +0.7 dB seems to me a bit much. Could any other SDG 2042X (or similar) owners verify this?

So,  what was this all about 0.7dB error with 600 ohm and then 495 ohm Load what give correct output. Some mistake in measurement?

As said previously
With SDG  dBu == dBm IF real load impedance  is 600 ohm AND IF user have set SDG Load setting for 600 Ohm.
If real load impedance is then higher than 600 there is level error*) 0 - up to 0.7dB (your data also proof it works) + other errors as told in data sheet.
*) "error" is based to 50 Ohm internal impedance.

With 0dBm level voltage for 600 Ohm load is 0.775 Vrms (generator have only 1mV steps)
GND -- Generator(Z0)  -- 50 ohm -- OUT Terminal -- external Load 600 ohm -- GND  Total signal pathway have 650 Ohm so generator Z0 output need be 0.83958 Vrms.

Now if just change true load to 1,5k total is 1.55k then there is  0.8125Vrms over this 1.5k load and it is 0.415dBu and you measure 0.42dB(u).
But true power level is of course NOT 0.42dBm what display still show, because we have told 600ohm Load but true Load is 1.5k because dBm is power and now there is Load 1.5k so it is -3.564dBm !!
With these and with real life various load values in different cases there is BIG danger to go error.

So, if use SDG  dBm units here for set levels as dBu unit,  load set and true load both need be 600 Ohm. Only then dBm unit can use as dBu unit with SDG2000X.

Open load voltage 0.8396 Vrms is 0.7dB higher (dBu) higher than  600 Ohm loaded voltage 0dBu (0dBm 600 Ohm) what is 0.7746 Vrms. It works ok and internal math is just ok.

 
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: mawyatt on November 06, 2020, 02:03:09 pm
I can confirm that the SDG2042X AWG output does work as expected when understanding that the output impedance is always 50 ohms regardless of what the load impedance is set to in the Load Setting. The AWG always has a fixed 50 ohm output impedance, then the actual generator voltage at the generator source is:

VG = [(RG+RL)/RL]* Sqrt(RL*P), where P is the power, RL is load and RG is generator (50 ohms for SDG2042X). Reading an Open Circuit output is then reading VG, and reading a loaded output includes RG and is VG*(RL/(RL +RG), so with a setting of 50 ohms the OC is twice the loaded voltage.

For example with a 0dBm (0.001W) at 1KHz reference:

Set to 50 ohms Open Circuit =~ 0.447 Vrms (correct value)
100 ohms OC ~ 0.474 Vrms (correct value)
600 ohms OC ~ 0.839 Vrms (correct value)
1K ohm OC ~ 1.049 Vrms (correct value)
10K ohm OC ~ 3.177 Vrms (correct value)

These readings were taken with a new Keysight 34465A DMM.

Best,

Edit to correct typo.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Messtechniker on November 06, 2020, 03:29:56 pm
Thanks for getting me up to date.
Just wandering.
Do other generators work in the same way?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: mawyatt on November 06, 2020, 03:47:40 pm
Don't know regarding how others work as this is the only AWG I have available at the moment. If the design decision is not to allow variable or settable generator output impedance then the approach Siglent has taken with a constant 50 ohms output and calculating the required voltage at the load to achieve a given power seems a good decision given the design constraint.

It can be confusing at first, especially when you think the unloaded output voltage should be twice the loaded and find this is only true at 50 ohm load, but then realize what's going on and it seems logical.

Anyway, these are just my thoughts on why this route was taken.

Best,
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: radiolistener on November 06, 2020, 04:30:09 pm
impedance setting is used just to display voltage for specific load. Actual output impedance is always 50 Ohm
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Blue on March 25, 2021, 03:31:41 am
Bricking alert!

My unit was running perfectly fine until did the following:

1) Firmware upgrade 22R5 => 23R3 (http://www.siglent.com/ENs/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=1880&tid=15), after successful upgrade just continued to use and did following:
2) Used EasyWave to send 8pts wfm, played around with DDS/TrueArb setting etc. Turned unit off while custom wfm was loaded.

Next day unit now shows blank screen after logo. Controls non-responsive. Parameter button is lit. Not recognized as USB device. But LAN shows functional login screen. Do not know user/pass.

:-// Since did 2 things first time (not used EW before) cannot be sure which activity bricked it. My first idea would be delete custom wfm. Maybe loading it at boot bricks it. But cannot get in....

Ordered online from siglent.eu quite a hassle sending it back etc... Since LAN is working maybe there is some trick to resurrect it? Can firmware be upgraded / downgraded over LAN? Reset procedure? Telnet user / pass?

I realize MrW0lf's message is 2 years old, but I'd like to share my somewhat similar bricking experience and solution.

A couple hours ago I bricked my SDG2042X (modified long ago to SDG2122X by using patched 23R7 firmware and modified XML file). Today I was trying to upload a waveform into the instrument by using low-level SCPI over TCP without needing any NI or Siglent software. I accidentally fumbled my code, resulting in a zero-length waveform stored in the instrument, and then I power-cycled the instrument to clear its stuck TCP state. Bricked! During power-up it displayed the logo for about 25 seconds, then several LED flash briefly, then the LCD goes blank forever.

I unbricked the instrument by connecting via telnet (thanks to the patched firmware), moved into /usr/bin/siglent/usr/usr, deleted my bogus zero-length waveform, power-cycled the instrument, and now it boots fine. Whew!

Maybe that will be helpful to someone else.

I liberated my SDG2042x with the telnet_SDG200x.ads trick and changing the configuration file. I have the lastest firmware 35R3B2 (as of march 2021) firmware installed.

Question Is this firmware also vulnerable to the bug/error described above? Could I brick the instrument?
Apparantly I can not telnet into root. Is there a solution allowing me to telnet into root in this latest firmware?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on March 25, 2021, 04:25:38 am
Very rare for these to give problems and if/when they do we have recovery packages for them now.

Here's the FW history:
https://siglentna.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2019/12/SDG2000X-Firmware-Revise-History-Update-Instructions.pdf
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Blue on March 26, 2021, 08:25:39 pm
I have a SDG2042x liberated to a SDG2122x.

There is a bug regarding the phase between the two channels:
Using a sine wave on both channels @ 120MHz @4Vpp there is a difference between the phase of around 12deg or 3.8ns as shown on my scope (Bandwidth 200MHz).
i used two cables with exact the same length to my scope.

Is this normal for this instrument? Can you check it on your instrument and report back here.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: exe on March 26, 2021, 09:02:53 pm
I have a SDG2042x liberated to a SDG2122x.

There is a bug regarding the phase between the two channels:
Using a sine wave on both channels @ 120MHz @4Vpp there is a difference between the phase of around 12deg or 3.8ns as shown on my scope (Bandwidth 200MHz).
i used two cables with exact the same length to my scope.

Can you post a picture of your setup? What happens if you move wires around? If you swap inputs, is it still the same lag (checking if there is a problem with oscilloscope)?

PS I wonder if scew can be calibrated. May be the siggen was not calibrated at such high freq.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Blue on March 26, 2021, 09:11:48 pm
I swapped the cables to different channels on my scope to no avail.

There exists a calibration procedure using python. I have not done that yet. I'll try to do that if others report better results than I have.

Here is a picture of the setup:
Oh, If you wonder about the cables. I use Lemo 00 the NIM / CAMAC standard.

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on March 26, 2021, 10:00:47 pm
Please spend some time in the Utility menu and learn how to phase lock channels etc.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: nez on March 26, 2021, 10:38:41 pm
I think you've got the skew calculation backwards (reverse to be CH 1-2), so the real skew measurement is about 257 ps.

Edit:  Also, I'm not sure if I'm reading the Keysight scope screenshot correctly, but should you change the channels in the skew (Delay) measurement to be both rising or both falling edge?

Regardless of the way of calculating, my unlocked SDG2042 has a similar phase deviation between it's outputs as yours (@120 MHz with channel locking on).

I'll have to look into that phase calibration procedure you mentioned too.

I'm not sure what the spec is (or if one exists) for output phase alignment between channels on the AWG...
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Blue on March 27, 2021, 06:41:34 am
Please spend some time in the Utility menu and learn how to phase lock channels etc.

You mean track on in the Channel coupling? Well channels are coupled with track on and zero phasedev.
It still gives the same result. (About the resolution, one can enter 0.1 mdeg and is a bit way too optimistic.)

If I set the phasedev to -12 degegree, the two sine outputs are completely in phase. Note that this is at 120MHz.
When I go down in frequency e.g. to 50MHz, the outputs do not stay lined up. The phase difference is -5 deg @50 MHz.
In other words, phase difference between the two channels is frequency dependant.

I think you've got the skew calculation backwards (reverse to be CH 1-2), so the real skew measurement is about 257 ps.

Edit:  Also, I'm not sure if I'm reading the Keysight scope screenshot correctly, but should you change the channels in the skew (Delay) measurement to be both rising or both falling edge?

You are right, trap for young players I presume  |O
See figure :[attach=1]

Regardless of the way of calculating, my unlocked SDG2042 has a similar phase deviation between it's outputs as yours (@120 MHz with channel locking on).

Thanks, so at least two instruments have this problem reported. Would be nice if more people test their equipment. Better yet, with way better scopes. Mine is only 200MHz bandwidth with only 30 ps time resolution. (Perhaps I will liberate it into a 500MHz scope in the future. It involves some component changes on the frontend.)


I'll have to look into that phase calibration procedure you mentioned too.

Perhaps Tautech could elaborate on this....
What does it exactly, does it need to be performed after a firmware update etc.

I'm not sure what the spec is (or if one exists) for output phase alignment between channels on the AWG...

I've been looking at the spec sheet. I cannot find anything about this. Perhaps I do not quite know the correct definition of this discrepancy.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: ebastler on March 27, 2021, 06:55:32 am
If I set the phasedev to -12 degegree, the two sine outputs are completely in phase. Note that this is at 120MHz.
When I go down in frequency e.g. to 50MHz, the outputs do not stay lined up. The phase difference is -5 deg @50 MHz.
In other words, phase difference between the two channels is frequency dependant.

Sounds like the phase difference is a fixed time (0.28 ns), which of course translates into varying phase angles at the different frequencies. But the generator's channel coupling menu only lets you specify a phase deviation, not an absolute time difference between the channels. So I see that it is a bit inconvenient to correct the deviation on this level.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Blue on March 27, 2021, 07:09:37 am
Sounds like the phase difference is a fixed time (0.28 ns), which of course translates into varying phase angles at the different frequencies. But the generator's channel coupling menu only lets you specify a phase deviation, not an absolute time difference between the channels. So I see that it is a bit inconvenient to correct the deviation on this level.

I think you are right.
Oh, stupid me, how did you calculate that number?

Could this be an option for a improved firmware?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: ebastler on March 27, 2021, 07:40:58 am
how did you calculate that number?

1/(12 MHz) * 12°/360° = 1/(5 MHz) * 5°/360° = 2.8 ns.

Oops, seems that I was off by a factor of 10 when doing that in my head...
Thanks for asking!


1/(120 MHz) * 12°/360° = 1/(50 MHz) * 5°/360° = 0.28 ns.

Sorry, I got the frequencies wrong in this post. I need more coffee!
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Blue on March 27, 2021, 07:56:21 am
Thanks.

Did you mean?

absolute timing difference at 120MHz : 1/(120MHz) *  12°/360° = 277.8 ps

computes to a phase difference at 50 MHz:  (360 * 2.77.8E-12) / (1/50E6) = 5 deg

Same as I have measured.


I think that it can be solved using a firmware update:

either changing a parameter in the hardware DAC (I have to look into this)
or using a (interpolated) lookup table and setting the phase angle according to the requested frequency.

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: ebastler on March 27, 2021, 08:13:20 am
Yes indeed. Posting before my second cup of coffee is no good...  ::)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on March 27, 2021, 08:16:42 am
Thanks.

Did you mean?

absolute timing difference at 120MHz : 1/(120MHz) *  12°/360° = 277.8 ps

computes to a phase difference at 50 MHz:  (360 * 2.77.8E-12) / (1/50E6) = 5 deg

Same as I have measured.


I think that it can be solved using a firmware update:

either changing a parameter in the hardware DAC (I have to look into this)
or using a (interpolated) lookup table and setting the phase angle according to the requested frequency.
Only with a lookup table as the phase deviation varies with frequency.
SDG1032X @ 30 MHz and 2 identical channels into SDS5104X = 9o (1ns) phase difference that is much less at lower frequency.

I thought maybe FreqCoup in the Channel Coupling menu might null the channel phase difference but no only Phase Coupling> PhaseMode>Deviation seems to work as required however haven't played with PhaseMode>Ratio as yet....getting late now.  :=\

P123 Channel Coupling
https://int.siglent.com/upload_file/user/SDG2000X/SDG2000X_UserManual_UM0202X-E02C.pdf

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: ebastler on March 27, 2021, 11:40:36 am
Only with a lookup table as the phase deviation varies with frequency.
[...]
I thought maybe FreqCoup in the Channel Coupling menu might null the channel phase difference but no only Phase Coupling> PhaseMode>Deviation seems to work as required however haven't played with PhaseMode>Ratio as yet....getting late now.  :=\

Seems to me that it would need a third phase coupling mode, where you specify the deviation as absolute time rather than degrees of phase. (Assuming that the timing offset indeed stays constant across all frequencies.)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Blue on March 28, 2021, 12:12:24 am
Problem solved:

There is a around 278 ps timing difference at 120 MHz measured. When corrected by this amount, the phase difference seen and measured is zero.
This 278 ps influence on the phase difference deminishes with decreasing frequency.

So I created a time delay of 278 ps (approx) by using two additional lemo connectors. The cable length increased by 36mm. It is not ideal since it used up two connectors.

I've checked the phase difference between all the frequecies in the range of 1..120 MHz. No errors are seen.

It would be nice if Siglent came up with a solution. Perhaps a programmable delay line in the asic?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: nctnico on March 28, 2021, 12:21:58 am
Only with a lookup table as the phase deviation varies with frequency.
[...]
I thought maybe FreqCoup in the Channel Coupling menu might null the channel phase difference but no only Phase Coupling> PhaseMode>Deviation seems to work as required however haven't played with PhaseMode>Ratio as yet....getting late now.  :=\

Seems to me that it would need a third phase coupling mode, where you specify the deviation as absolute time rather than degrees of phase. (Assuming that the timing offset indeed stays constant across all frequencies.)
'Channel skew adjustment' you mean
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Blue on March 28, 2021, 12:25:46 am
'Channel skew adjustment' you mean

Yes, if that's the term.
I did not find a menu item for that.
Perhaps a fixed delay line timing in a calibration menu would be useful. Then one can still use a phase of zero in the main display.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: hpw on March 28, 2021, 03:37:41 pm
Have the SDG2082X since some days as: FW 2.01.01.35R3B2, HW 02-02-00-40-00

and run into a Square Wave & FM modulation bug....

Settings:

- 1MHz or 10Mhz square wave
- 2Vpp or on 50E 1Vpp
- 50%
- FM 1kHz
- Freq. Dev 1Hz
- FM shape sine or square, equal behavior

After may 1 minutes running, the modulation terminates greyly = dead  :-- :--

Sine wave is OK, but square wave is the issue. Checked with a SSA as seen on my pictures


Nice would be:

- to have TTL/HCMOS/AHC output level in one snap, than dealing with the output levels & offset, as on pulse too

- also better precision on 0.010 Hz deviation, as none symmetric side peaks or lower  is may a limitation on 16bit DAC, but lower is even possible and hard to check as on SSA

- 25MHz is really a poor mans limitation so higher than 25 MHz please

- use always last settings after boot

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Roger Need on March 29, 2021, 12:00:35 am
Just purchased a Siglent 2042x.  It works quite well and I was able to calibrate it to a GPSDO to well under 1 Hz. at 10 MHz using the service menu.  Very impressive AWG for the price.

One thing that is disappointing is the level of fan noise when working near the unit. .  Not an annoying whine but just much louder than my Siglent 1202X-E scope.  Maybe I have a bad fan or that is just the way it is.   

Can anyone else comment on the noise level they have experience especially if you have a 1202X-E to compare it to.  Hopefully Tautech will comment since he seems to know a lot about this product..

Thanks Roger
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on March 29, 2021, 12:37:30 am
Just purchased a Siglent 2042x.  It works quite well and I was able to calibrate it to a GPSDO to well under 1 Hz. at 10 MHz using the service menu.  Very impressive AWG for the price.

One thing that is disappointing is the level of fan noise when working near the unit. .  Not an annoying whine but just much louder than my Siglent 1202X-E scope.  Maybe I have a bad fan or that is just the way it is.   

Can anyone else comment on the noise level they have experience especially if you have a 1202X-E to compare it to.  Hopefully Tautech will comment since he seems to know a lot about this product..

Thanks Roger
SDS1202X-E is the quietest fan cooled Siglent product other than those that use smart fans (PSU's and SDL E-load) and SDG products are ~ 2x (my guess) the noise level of SDS1202X-E.
So yes SDG are noisier than SDS1202X-E by some amount and what you hear is normal.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Blue on March 29, 2021, 06:03:07 am
I bought a SDG and it has a very noisy fan.

have a look here:

I installed the Noctua NF-A6x25 FLX  and it has two working fan settings. I used the lowest one and it works great!

Nailig many thanks.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: hpw on March 29, 2021, 06:41:15 am

regarding: SDS1202X-E is the quietest fan cooled Siglent product other than those that use smart fans (PSU's and SDL E-load) and SDG products are ~ 2x (my guess) the noise level of SDS1202X-E.

OK, all is now shoe boxed alike and needs cooling! Shaking fan's is not the best for crystal oscillators, so we have free PN or jitter added. may will not see much of them, while performance may not that state of the art, this means enough for home workers :D

Having a Siglent SDG2082x, SSA 3000X Plus & DSO 2000x Plus on the table and one will but some beans in the ear so you can accept those noise. While world went into fan modding as noise less at it get's. Even with a SSD HD, noise level is reduced..

Also, having a Rigol PSU DP832... fan noise with all to gather, loader than inside a car  :-DD

Otherwise Tinnitus will your next friend  |O
but all likes it cheap, factory to collect each saved penny  :phew:

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Blue on March 29, 2021, 06:49:51 am
Hi HPW,

I tried to do the same with your waveform modulation test. I do not have a spectrum analyser but a handy fft in my scope.
I have no problems with the modulation yet. However, more testing needs to be done.
Perhaps you could show it with a more faster modulation? 1 Hz is quite slow you know and superimposed on a square wave is hard for me to visualise on a scope.
Can you modulate a sine wave properly?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: hpw on March 29, 2021, 06:59:30 am
Can you modulate a sine wave properly?

Just read: Sine wave is OK, but square wave is the issue

Cheers

Hp
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on March 29, 2021, 07:09:32 am

regarding: SDS1202X-E is the quietest fan cooled Siglent product other than those that use smart fans (PSU's and SDL E-load) and SDG products are ~ 2x (my guess) the noise level of SDS1202X-E.

OK, all is now shoe boxed alike and needs cooling! Shaking fan's is not the best for crystal oscillators, so we have free PN or jitter added. may will not see much of them, while performance may not that state of the art, this means enough for home workers :D

Having a Siglent SDG2082x, SSA 3000X Plus & DSO 2000x Plus on the table and one will but some beans in the ear so you can accept those noise. While world went into fan modding as noise less at it get's. Even with a SSD HD, noise level is reduced..

Also, having a Rigol PSU DP832... fan noise with all to gather, loader than inside a car  :-DD

Otherwise Tinnitus will your next friend  |O
but all likes it cheap, factory to collect each saved penny  :phew:
Well you may say that but these instruments require sufficient cooling for stability and long life....a customer needed to quieten his SDS1104X-E and I cut out the grille in my unit.....no change. He fitted a Noctua fan to his unit....no change. We concluded the fans Siglent use are perfectly fit for purpose and the only option to quieten them further was to slow them down....I don't advise this without detailed analysis of the changes to airflow and its effects on instrument thermals and reliability.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: DL2XY on March 29, 2021, 07:46:35 am
...
Perhaps you could show it with a more faster modulation? 1 Hz is quite slow you know and superimposed on a square wave is hard for me to visualise on a scope.
...

The spectrum clearly shows 1kHz modulation so i think 1Hz is a typo.
Have run this on a SDG 6052 for about an hour - no probs.

 
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: hpw on March 29, 2021, 07:59:09 am
...
Perhaps you could show it with a more faster modulation? 1 Hz is quite slow you know and superimposed on a square wave is hard for me to visualise on a scope.
...

The spectrum clearly shows 1kHz modulation so i think 1Hz is a typo.
Have run this on a SDG 6052 for about an hour - no probs.

just read as posted:

- FM 1kHz = modulation
- Freq. Dev 1Hz


and than wait about 1 minute, sometimes the mod button has to be pressed twice, so the modulation starts again
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Blue on March 29, 2021, 07:54:06 pm
As I have changed the fan to a quiter version, I wanted to analyse the temperature of the components using my flir camera.

Quite shocking is the extreme heat produced by some resistors.

For example in the power supply:
[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Blue on March 29, 2021, 07:56:51 pm
The DAC area


[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Blue on March 29, 2021, 07:57:55 pm
another very small resistor:
[attachurl=1]
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Blue on March 29, 2021, 08:01:27 pm
[attachimg=1]

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Blue on March 29, 2021, 08:04:19 pm
some more
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Blue on March 29, 2021, 08:17:32 pm
The main problems are in the powersupply:

D18 (Shottkey?) diode @ 102 °C
Three 2002 Resistors R29,  R25, R44 @ 170 °C

I have an input of 230.4 V AC right now!

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Blue on March 29, 2021, 08:24:59 pm
[attachimg=1][attachimg=2]
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Blue on March 29, 2021, 08:28:23 pm
What do you think of these findings?

Is there anyone who had a failing powersupply?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: TurboTom on March 29, 2021, 08:32:22 pm
...
Perhaps you could show it with a more faster modulation? 1 Hz is quite slow you know and superimposed on a square wave is hard for me to visualise on a scope.
...

The spectrum clearly shows 1kHz modulation so i think 1Hz is a typo.
Have run this on a SDG 6052 for about an hour - no probs.

The SDG6000X has got its own share of problems under these condintions as well. See here. (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg6000-series-awg_s/msg3535302/#msg3535302)


@Blue: The temps are okay except for the 160C resistor... That's smoking hot, it will tan the PCB in no time, make the copper clad adhesive brittle and even foul the solder eventually. I guess these are the startup resistors of the PSU that get that hot. If your in the Netherlands as shown in your avatar (?) -- high five to our neighbours  ;) --, your SDG will run on 230VAC, causing these dropper resistors to dissipate a considerable amount (four times as much) of power in comparison to countries that run a 115VAC mains (but that's less than half as much fun "to the touch"  8)). I may check temps in my SDG6000X that's probably equipped with the same PSU, and maybe replace the resistors with such of twice the resistance. My SDG will probably never run off 115V...
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on March 29, 2021, 09:09:08 pm
What do you think of these findings?

Is there anyone who had a failing powersupply?
Not here in NZ or anywhere else that I can recall.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Blue on March 29, 2021, 09:14:28 pm

@Blue: The temps are okay except for the 160C resistor... That's smoking hot, it will tan the PCB in no time, make the copper clad adhesive brittle and even foul the solder eventually. I guess these are the startup resistors of the PSU that get that hot. If your in the Netherlands as shown in your avatar (?) -- high five to our neighbours  ;) --, your SDG will run on 230VAC, causing these dropper resistors to dissipate a considerable amount (four times as much) of power in comparison to countries that run a 115VAC mains (but that's less than half as much fun "to the touch"  8)). I may check temps in my SDG6000X that's probably equipped with the same PSU, and maybe replace the resistors with such of twice the resistance. My SDG will probably never run off 115V...

Do you think that these resistors were designed for a powersupply running at 110V?
Would replacing these 20K Ohm to e.g. 40 Kohm still work?

I bought them at Batronix, will they complain about me opening the SDG?
What shall I do?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: TurboTom on March 29, 2021, 09:22:43 pm
Use it as it is. The resistors will run at this temerature, no problem, but the PCB will suffer. Nevertheless, I haven't heard of any of these suppies fail. So probably, just "don't worry, be happy" and deal with the problems if they should arise. Still, IMO, it's not a good design practice by the manufacturer to allow components to run that hot in some parts of the woods...
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Blue on March 29, 2021, 11:10:35 pm
Apparantly my powersupply in the SDG is different than show in Dave's teardown https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ijb_SzJ9Fs0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ijb_SzJ9Fs0)

They have changed things and botched up
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on March 29, 2021, 11:32:26 pm
Apparantly my powersupply in the SDG is different than show in Dave's teardown

They have changed things and botched up
The complete lack of PSU warranty claims suggests otherwise.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Roger Need on March 30, 2021, 05:15:49 pm
As I have changed the fan to a quieter version,


Blue, 

What fan make/model # did you use for the replacement?  Did it reduce the noise level much?

Roger
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: exe on March 30, 2021, 05:18:31 pm
@Blue: The temps are okay except for the 160C resistor...

From the picture it's not obvious to me if it's a peak temperature on the image, or it's just a range indicator. I'd expect central marker to show the peak temperature.

So... what model of thermal camera is that?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Blue on March 30, 2021, 05:32:42 pm
In the left upper corner you weill see two numbers with an arrow (solid triangle). They correspond to the temperatures of the triangles in the picture.
They are also min and max of the whole picture when the temperature range is not locked (see left lower corner while using the instrument - is not recorded in these pictures).

In addition, there is a centre cross with it's own temperature.

I'm using a Therm-App made by Ogal.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: blurpy on March 30, 2021, 05:42:38 pm
So... what model of thermal camera is that?
Wondering that as well, looking into one and the pictures looked pretty good.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: exe on March 30, 2021, 07:03:05 pm
In the left upper corner you weill see two numbers with an arrow (solid triangle). They correspond to the temperatures of the triangles in the picture.

Ah, missed triangles on the picture. Oh shi~, that's bad. The temperature here is during the spring, and with open enclosure. I can imagine during the summer it'll be significantly hotter.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Blue on March 30, 2021, 08:25:02 pm
I checked the readings from the flir with a ultra small thermocouple made from GG-KI-36-SLE and an AD595 / 9V battery
It is a bit difficult to get a 0.3 mm thermocouple attached but I managed.
The readings from the thermocouple attached to the resistor with Kapton tape was around 120C. Was not perfectly connected. Still way too high.

[attachimg=1]

Few uncertainties remain. Emissivity used in the flir was 0.95. Are the components being measured correctly?
Thermocouple was not calibrated above 100C.

Anyway, I remain confident that the resistors and diode are being overstressed.
And for those who think it is ok, it would be nice if you power your Siglent on for at least 3 months, 24/7. And then report back here what happened. Would be nice if you could take pictures.

Does anyone dare?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: JohnG on March 31, 2021, 01:34:36 am
I would consider the following possibility:

If you are doing thermal images, that implies the cover is off. This is likely to affect the airflow substantially, and often makes the cooling worse because the air can take the easy path out the open box, rather than the harder path along the circuit board and components.

When you use the thermocouple, you can put the cover on and see if it makes any difference.

Cheers,
John
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Blue on March 31, 2021, 06:37:20 am
Hi JohnG,

No difference measured with or without plastic cover (Its not possible to slide the metal cover back without slicing the thermocouple)
Hardly any airflow over the components due to their location and shielding.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on March 31, 2021, 06:44:16 am
Hi JohnG,

No difference measured with or without plastic cover (Its not possible to slide the metal cover back without slicing the thermocouple)
Hardly any airflow over the components due to their location and shielding.
Yes well if you have changed the fan and run it on low speed as you reported here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/msg3535016/#msg3535016 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/msg3535016/#msg3535016)

I'm sorry Blue but we can't take your reports seriously when you're not running the OEM fan.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Blue on March 31, 2021, 06:55:41 am
Hi Tautech,

Due to the location of the components and their shielding against airflow, there is hardly any airflow over these components to make their temperature go down substantially.
Their surface area is extremely small (no cooling block on them).

Why don't you switch one SDG2000X on permanently for a minimum of 3 months to test for any degradation?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: rf-loop on March 31, 2021, 08:03:07 am
Hi Tautech,

Due to the location of the components and their shielding against airflow, there is hardly any airflow over these components to make their temperature go down substantially.
Their surface area is extremely small (no cooling block on them).

Why don't you switch one SDG2000X on permanently for a minimum of 3 months to test for any degradation?

You can switch it on after it arrived and keep 3 years continuously on, only care that room temp stay uder 30 ºC <90% humidity and up to 40 ºC  < 50% humidity, naturally with original fan. If it fails  there is 3 year warranty.

Who can guess how much Siglent have warranty cases if it fails due to thermal design. It is designed in south China where is quite hot (and humid), subtropic climate. This model is sold years around of world and this model have been quite popular.
If there is really some thermal design problem what leads to extra failures we have heard bout it and lot.




Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Blue on March 31, 2021, 08:57:06 am
@rf-loop

Perhaps you are right - time will tell.
But I think most hobbyists are buying this device and do not have them on 24/7. So there will be hardly any reports. And the amount of instruments being sold is I quess in my country of 17M inhabitants around 2-3 per month. Weibull analysis is due to the low amount of instruments in the field questionable.

Therefore I ask others - who have this instrument - to check if they also have these components at 170 Celcius. Do you have this instrument rf-loop?

And if you are a enigneer, you will be aware that most components have rating of 1000h @85C. In other words you have to design in such a way that components do not fail due to thermal issues.

And in respect to the ambient temperature, there is hardly any difference between (170-20) = 150C or (170-30) = 140C. Besides, in China they use a lot of airco's removing water vapour from the atmosphere and reducing the ambient temps to 'normal' levels.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: exe on March 31, 2021, 10:40:29 am
And in respect to the ambient temperature, there is hardly any difference between (170-20) = 150C or (170-30) = 140C.

Idk, for electrolytics every 10C shortens life twice. Also, I'm not sure about the pcb. But I do know that my board house (jlcpcb) offers several pcb materials with different glass transition temperature. What is the max temp for "normal" fr-4?

Anyway, I agree I didn't hear much about failures of this model.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: 2N3055 on March 31, 2021, 11:47:54 am
And in respect to the ambient temperature, there is hardly any difference between (170-20) = 150C or (170-30) = 140C.

Idk, for electrolytics every 10C shortens life twice. Also, I'm not sure about the pcb. But I do know that my board house (jlcpcb) offers several pcb materials with different glass transition temperature. What is the max temp for "normal" fr-4?

Anyway, I agree I didn't hear much about failures of this model.

Glass transition temp is not important. Like Thomas rightly said, temps over 120-130 °C will contribute to epoxy oxidation and cause yellowing. Also there is a greater chance of delamination of copper from FR4. I personally don't like SMD power resistors for that reason, a nice TH power resistor mounted off the board is better choice for long term.
Although, there is no need for such high dissipation.  If it's a bleeder circuit, it is drawing too much power for nothing.
If it's a standby, same, or should be replaced with physical power button. I personally like physical power switches, and am willing to trade for few more seconds of boot time...
Most of the time, it is not even that device is in some kind of standby, just someone thought that  soft power switch is cool because it enables stupid blinking power switch. Of course, blue light and too damn strong one...
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Qw3rtzuiop on March 31, 2021, 01:03:39 pm
I have an unmodified unit. I measured 105° at the 20k Resistors with a cheap IR Thermometer. Considering that i wasnt able to get the thermometer at the correct distance the actual value is higher because i also measured parts of the colder pcb.

My unit is from mid 2017. There are no discolorations so far.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: JohnG on March 31, 2021, 01:57:20 pm
No difference measured with or without plastic cover (Its not possible to slide the metal cover back without slicing the thermocouple)
Hardly any airflow over the components due to their location and shielding.

I've worked on a number of projects where thermal management using airflow was an essential part of the design. Removal of a cover has a dramatic affect on airflow in every case I have ever seen. The cover forces the air to go where it normally would not. Under such circumstances, the air will usually form eddies that can cool areas without direct airflow. Can you see the airflow, or have otherwise measured it? That's what thermal engineers do, with a smoke generators. If they work for a rich company, they use a lidar to measure particle velocity, even. If you don't measure it with the cover on, it is a pure guess as to what is actually going on.

If you have changed the fan or otherwise lowered the airflow, stuff will get hotter. If the parts get that hot with the original fan and the cover on, you have a case for a design flaw. Otherwise, you have no case.

For some points of reference, a lot of hi-rel stuff limits temps to 100-105C for most parts that are rated to operate at 150C. It's usually the semiconductors and the resistors that can get this hot. Consumer stuff will often run around 110-120C worst case, i.e. wall-warts and such.

John

Cheers,
John

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: TurboTom on March 31, 2021, 06:15:19 pm
So these resistors are probably built-in smoke generators to identify the eddies...  >:D
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Blue on March 31, 2021, 07:07:23 pm
Hahaha,

More seriously, do you know which notified body accepted the CE mark?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: 2N3055 on March 31, 2021, 07:24:11 pm
So these resistors are probably built-in smoke generators to identify the eddies...  >:D
LOL!!
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: ebastler on March 31, 2021, 07:29:37 pm
More seriously, do you know which notified body accepted the CE mark?
Why would a notified body have to accept a CE mark?  ???
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Blue on March 31, 2021, 07:38:59 pm
have a look here:
https://wpo-altertechnology.com/notified-body-for-ce-marking/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CE_marking
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: nctnico on March 31, 2021, 07:43:47 pm
More seriously, do you know which notified body accepted the CE mark?
Doesn't matter. Has been debunked a long time ago.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Blue on March 31, 2021, 07:46:56 pm
Doesn't matter. Has been debunked a long time ago.

I do not understand, can you elaborate....
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: ebastler on March 31, 2021, 08:07:02 pm
have a look here:
https://wpo-altertechnology.com/notified-body-for-ce-marking/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CE_marking

So, in your opinion, which of the special product categories which require the involvement of a notified body does the SDG2042X fall into? Implantable medical devices maybe?  ::)

https://ec.europa.eu/growth/single-market/ce-marking/manufacturers_en
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Blue on March 31, 2021, 08:17:37 pm
Measuring Instruments

I'll figure it out.
Power resistors in the powersupply @ 170C is a fire harzard. Siglent put a CE mark on the instrument.
Something is gonna be smelly....
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on March 31, 2021, 08:25:15 pm
Measuring Instruments

I'll figure it out.
Power resistors in the powersupply @ 170C is a fire harzard. Siglent put a CE mark on the instrument.
Something is gonna be smelly....
A data point a few posts earlier:
I have an unmodified unit. I measured 105° at the 20k Resistors with a cheap IR Thermometer. Considering that i wasnt able to get the thermometer at the correct distance the actual value is higher because i also measured parts of the colder pcb.

My unit is from mid 2017. There are no discolorations so far.
Maybe you should have your IR camera checked for accuracy ?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Blue on March 31, 2021, 08:30:26 pm
Upto now, there have been 3 measurements of reporting of extremely hot resistors. By using a thermal camera, thermo couple and IR thermometer.
Humm, seems to be a systematic issue. No need to question these results.

If you have one of these instruments, please check the Siglent with it and report back here. Many thanks.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on March 31, 2021, 08:39:28 pm
Upto now, there have been 3 measurements of reporting of extremely hot resistors. By using a thermal camera, thermo couple and IR thermometer.
Humm, seems to be a systematic issue. No need to question these results.

If you have one of these instruments, please check the Siglent with it and report back here. Many thanks.
I beg to differ....a 70C variance in reported results is not insignificant coupled with rf-loop's and my knowledge of zero SDG2kX PSU failures.

If there was a problem with these units he and I would know about it.....I'll leave the exercise for you to establish who rf-loop really is and why he might have considerable knowledge of SDG AWG's.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Blue on March 31, 2021, 09:16:07 pm
Perhaps you or rf-loop could post some flir images showing temperatures that are not regarded as a fire hazard? ie way less than 85C.
I have no clue who rf-loop really is apart from that he writes in proper English and has a Chinese flag in his posts. Maybe the CEO of Siglent?

I really like the instrument, it has lots of capabilities. The fan just made a hell of a noise and therefore I opened it and found out that something is not good.

Great respect will be shown to those who are able to make the instrument better. Perilous defending or nullifying the flaws could backfire.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: JohnG on March 31, 2021, 10:19:03 pm
Great respect will be shown to those who are able to make the instrument better. Perilous defending or nullifying the flaws could backfire.

Even if there was a real problem, you have not shown that it occurs under normal operating conditions on an unmodified unit. Having the cover off counts as modified. Changing the fan counts as modified. Note that I am not defending anything. I am only pointing out improper technique. If you do the measurement properly on an original system, and you still measure a temperature that is excessive either safety-wise, exceeding component ratings, or from a reliability analysis (not opinion about what's too hot), you have a solid case.

To do this, you can feed the thermocouple or other temperature sensor through the vent holes in the side of the case, leaving enough excess so that you can attach the tip of the thermocouple to the point of interest, and still have enough slack to put the cover back on. Before putting the cover back on, replace the original fan. Then do the measurement. Be careful, because the thermocouple may be at or near line voltage.

You may go to any knowledgeable certification body that you wish. If you take the temperature measurement with the case off, it will be discounted. If you have modified the device in any way, you will be discounted.

But don't take my word for it. Try it yourself!

As an aside, an 85C temperature hardly counts as a fire hazard. Some electronics have parts that routinely operate at 120C or higher. Go look inside some old CFLs if you want to see scary charred PCBs with crystallized solder joints, still operating. Heck, I worked on an electronic cooktop controller in a prior job that had to work in an ambient environment of 85C because some customers would install it in a cabinet right over the oven. The coolest parts were 85C. This was UL certified, and UL is strict and they don't take your word for it.

Cheers,
John
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Blue on March 31, 2021, 10:35:39 pm
Dear John,

You are absolutely right.


I did measure it with the thermocouple in place with a plastic sheet over the box and without plastic sheet.  I still got a temperature above 120C in both cases. Unfortunately, the thermocouple was not affixed perfectly to the resistor - there was a small airgap between the resistor and the thermocouple.
This was due to the lack of stickeyness of the kapton tape (old tape). Therefore the reported temperature was too low! I deem the flir readings of 170C more accurate. Perhaps the closed lid will drop the real temperature a bit (5-10C?), but the that's impossible to measure with a flir camera since it does not look through metal. Because the resistors have a very small surface area, most of the energy will be radiated instead of being removed by air convection.

No difference in temperature was observed with or without this plastic cover with the thermocouple. That was expected since the airflow is not directed over these resistors. If you have one of these units, you can confirm it for yourself. Or just study the video by Dave. He also made a remark about the airflow.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: TurboTom on April 01, 2021, 12:06:50 am
Took some thermographs on my SDG6000X and could to some extent verify Blue's findings (~150°C at the resistors with an open casing). Yet, I doubt that it's so severe when the machine is closed. These temperatures would cause some discoloration of the PCB in relatively short time, and there's just nothing like that to be found in my instrument.

But I noticed another peculiarity: there's a hot MLCC in my PSU! I guess that's a candidate for a replacement really soon... See attached report for more information.

Edit: Some more testing on that issue over in the SDG6000X thread (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg6000-series-awg_s/msg3545116/#msg3545116).
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: nez on April 01, 2021, 12:20:19 am
I think that even with the proper setup as JohnG described, taping a thermocouple on would affect the temperatures negatively as well.  It would likely directly block the airflow on the area of the component hidden under the tape like a miniature tent (or like wearing a wind-breaker outside in a breeze), degrading cooling ability.

This way of testing also assumes that the part of the tape that's flush on the component (rather than the 'tent' portion) has perfect thermal conductivity and doesn't insulate the part. There is a lot of variation between heatsink thermal pastes' qualities, for example, that makes a difference with cooling hot parts.

Maybe I'm wrong.

That said, I don't know a great way to get a true reading on the temp without a professional setup that avoids these pitfalls (calibrated thermal camera built into the side/top of a custom case?).



At a different level, important aspects to analyze are the airflow and static pressure specs of the stock fan vs. replacement fan (Edit:  Assuming case completely closed, of course, since any additional gaps between panels would affect airflow).

I installed the Noctua NF-A6x25 FLX  and it has two working fan settings. I used the lowest one and it works great!

I very much share your desire for low noise! However, we must still take care to compare the noise-lowering solution to the original design specs for cooling ability.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=1206728)
https://noctua.at/en/nf-a6x25-flx/specification (https://noctua.at/en/nf-a6x25-flx/specification)

Using the medium or low Noctua fan speeds using one of the adapters, the airflow and static pressure might be too low compared to the stock fan.

My understanding is that in tight spaces with lots of air resistance, static pressure can be particularly important.

@Blue
Can you share a pic of the stock fan to see its model number?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: adamgreig on April 01, 2021, 12:35:58 am
For another data point, I measured my SDG2042X. With the lid open I get the same thermal camera readings as everyone else, around 150C on that resistor. I also note very minimal discoloration around it - some oxidation on the solder joint compared to other components but no discoloration to the resistor or PCB despite regular (albeit not continuous) operation since 2017.

I then attached a thermocouple to the resistor with a bunch of kapton tape and took measurements in the lid on and lid off position, in both cases waiting about 10min by which time readings had equilibrated. As has already been commented it's very tricky to get a good contact between the thermocouple and the resistor, and in the lid-off position I read around 98C instead of the 150C reported by the IR camera. Could be a mix of IR calibration and poor thermocouple contact. In any event I was able to close the lid without disturbing the thermocouple and the temperature dropped to and remained at around 78C over the next five minutes or so.

So, while it's definitely running hot, and I can't say exactly how hot, it seems to me that closing the lid does have a significant impact on the temperature.

Quote
But I noticed another peculiarity: there's a hot MLCC in my PSU! I guess that's a candidate for a replacement really soon...

I didn't measure it specifically but didn't notice this MLCC being hot on my unit.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on April 01, 2021, 01:39:12 am
@nez
AFAIK the same fan is used in SDS X-E models and I suspect this as noise levels are very similar to SDG and Siglent would obviously simplify their inventory by using a single fan for as many models as possible.

Back in 2018 in another thread about DSO fan noise the then spec for the fan was:
CD-Fan: Sleeve bearing, 60mm DFM6025S, 0.11A, 3300RPM, 17.41CFM, 2.56mH2O, 24.64dBm

http://www.szdosense.com/eng/products-detail.asp?cpid=177 (http://www.szdosense.com/eng/products-detail.asp?cpid=177)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: nctnico on April 01, 2021, 08:16:13 am
Using the medium or low Noctua fan speeds using one of the adapters, the airflow and static pressure might be too low compared to the stock fan.

My understanding is that in tight spaces with lots of air resistance, static pressure can be particularly important.
The latter is true. You have to compare static pressures because airflow alone says nothing. Personally I like to have a pressure versus airflow graph of the original and replacement fan to compare the pressure at half the airflow rating. IMHO that gives a better ballpark figure on how the fans compare when they are pushing air through a device (and whether a potential replacement fan is good enough or not).
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Ghislain on April 01, 2021, 03:11:17 pm
Using the medium or low Noctua fan speeds using one of the adapters, the airflow and static pressure might be too low compared to the stock fan.

My understanding is that in tight spaces with lots of air resistance, static pressure can be particularly important.
The latter is true. You have to compare static pressures because airflow alone says nothing. Personally I like to have a pressure versus airflow graph of the original and replacement fan to compare the pressure at half the airflow rating. IMHO that gives a better ballpark figure on how the fans compare when they are pushing air through a device (and whether a potential replacement fan is good enough or not).

Absolutely! No idea what the original Siglent fan's ratings look like but these are the ones for the potential Noctua replacement....
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on April 01, 2021, 06:57:31 pm
Using the medium or low Noctua fan speeds using one of the adapters, the airflow and static pressure might be too low compared to the stock fan.

My understanding is that in tight spaces with lots of air resistance, static pressure can be particularly important.
The latter is true. You have to compare static pressures because airflow alone says nothing. Personally I like to have a pressure versus airflow graph of the original and replacement fan to compare the pressure at half the airflow rating. IMHO that gives a better ballpark figure on how the fans compare when they are pushing air through a device (and whether a potential replacement fan is good enough or not).

Absolutely! No idea what the original Siglent fan's ratings look like but these are the ones for the potential Noctua replacement....
Link to fan graphs provided 2 posts ago and here again:
http://www.szdosense.com/eng/products-detail.asp?cpid=177 (http://www.szdosense.com/eng/products-detail.asp?cpid=177)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Blue on April 01, 2021, 08:37:07 pm
originial installed: PAAD16025SL
and googling around: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-1202x-e-noise-issues/25/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-1202x-e-noise-issues/25/)
[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on April 01, 2021, 08:57:51 pm
and googling around: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-1202x-e-noise-issues/25/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-1202x-e-noise-issues/25/)
FYI SDS1202X-E fans have been changed or run at much lower RPM than early units so these now are somewhat quieter than SDG's or Siglent's other small form factor SDS DSO's.
Siglent's large DSO's run an 80mm fan at lower speeds and some models also use temp sensing fan speed control.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: nez on April 02, 2021, 01:31:15 am
originial installed: PAAD16025SL

For the stock fan vs Noctua one (Edit: with lowest speed adapter), looks like the airflow is similar but the difference in static pressure is pretty large.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=1207354;image)

If the layout in the AWG permits, maybe adding a second quiet fan to have one as intake and one as exhaust would be suitable. That's up to your personal amount of interest and budget.

Actually I was in the same boat with the same 60mm Noctua fan for something else -- I bought the Noctua fan but was kind of dissapointed at its noise level at full speed.  In the end, I picked the middle speed-adapter on the single Noctua as a compromise at my own risk.  I can still hear the fan with the middle speed, but I got rid of some kind of resonance/tonality that was driving me crazy with the stock fan on the other equipment!

So now it's a soft white noise I can put up with ok.  However, I still logically know it may be running hotter on some components due to lower static pressure compared to the original fan -- I don't have a thermal camera (not that using one with case off tells me the real in-use temps) or the inclination to otherwise try to check the temps.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: hpw on April 02, 2021, 12:01:28 pm

I am currently voting for some Accessories given from Rigol & Siglent to get ride of...  :-DD

While protect your hearings as a tinnitus will be after years your next friend  :horse:
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: JohnG on April 02, 2021, 01:33:47 pm
I just turn on my HP6030A or Lecroy SDA 6020 and then I don't hear anything else...

More seriously, there are people whose hearing is particular sensitive to certain types of sounds even at relatively low to moderate volumes. I personally am not especially bothered by fans, unless they are loud (I wear hearing protection when using the above for any length of time, for example). But, there are particular sounds, like intermittent chirps, or very high frequency tones that change as you move about, that can get on my nerves.

But I've spent many years in labs, and most new equipment is so much quieter that older equipment that it hardly bothers me. On the other hand, bright blue LEDs and anything that blinks at more than a few Hz, I find really bad and headache-inducing.

John
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: ebastler on April 02, 2021, 02:43:44 pm
While protect your hearings as a tinnitus will be after years your next friend  :horse:

You already chose the right icon there, beating that dead horse. You keep ranting about tinnitus, but you know that fan noise on the level we are discussing here has nothing to do with that, right? You may, of course, still be annoyed by the fan noise; that's very subjective. But please keep it real here.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: 2N3055 on April 02, 2021, 05:42:22 pm
Hearing damage occurs when SPL is more than 85 dB continuously. That is a freight train at 30 meters..
Everything else is just how much it bothers you on perception level.
And white noise is actually sometimes used to mask tinnitus, also using perception tricks.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Roger Need on April 02, 2021, 10:00:34 pm
The SDG2042X permits frequency entry to fractions of a Hz. like 1.000 000 05 MHz. and the generator will output correctly at this frequency.  However the display will only read 1.000 000MHz.  Is there any way to see the other digits? It would also be nice to be able to change the fractional Hz. with the spinner knob like all the other digits.

If this is not possible maybe Siglent will consider this in a future firmware upgrade. 

Roger
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Bad_Driver on April 03, 2021, 11:13:37 am
It’s the same with the signal generator in the SDS2000X + scope. It accepts more valid digits than shown in the display.
Good to know that it works with the SDG as well! Some fine tuning for the UI will be appreceated!
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Dwaine on April 03, 2021, 02:23:39 pm
It's been a while since the last firmware update.  I'm still hoping they add a graph screen for the frequency counter.

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Johnny B Good on April 11, 2021, 02:25:16 am
The SDG2042X permits frequency entry to fractions of a Hz. like 1.000 000 05 MHz. and the generator will output correctly at this frequency.  However the display will only read 1.000 000MHz.  Is there any way to see the other digits? It would also be nice to be able to change the fractional Hz. with the spinner knob like all the other digits.

If this is not possible maybe Siglent will consider this in a future firmware upgrade. 

Roger


 I too was similarly optimistic of seeing such 4 or 5 year old UI issues being addressed, especially after exchanging a few emails with Siglent's European Sales manager last October. Quite frankly, I've been using mine these past 5 months or so only as a plinth to park my FY6600-60M AWG on when I was working on a temperature regulated LPRO-101 Rubidium frequency reference project where I used it as a proxy for the RFS to dial in uHz offsets (usually no tighter than 10uHz, more typically 30 to 50uHz step adjustments - the 1uHz resolution is, quite frankly overkill... for the time being).

 It grieves me to see an AWG, capable of being locked to an external 10MHz 'Atomic Standard' so crippled by its woefully inadequate UI as to render it less useful than a cheap toy AWG such as an FY6600-60M cured of of its original frequency instability with a relatively cheap OCXO upgrade with an external 10MHz reference input socket by which to lock the OCXO's phase (typically with a PLL but, in my case, using a frequency injection circuit - don't ask!).

 Rather than work my way up to yet another rant, I'll simply paste the bulk of what proved to be my penultimate response in that email exchange over a faulty SDG1032X I'd returned as "unfit for purpose" by way of an extremely jittery internal clock.

=============================================================================================
[Quote from an email reply to Siglent's European Sales manager last October]

  The answer is yes, your understanding of the test setup is absolutely correct. Although the trigger source is the sine wave output from a cheap FY6600-60M, it has been modified with an OCXO which is injection locked to my GPSDO 10MHz lab reference. The RFS on CH3 provides a 'sanity check' on both its stability and its low jitter by virtue of its complete independence of any of the other signal sources (no correlated behaviour to mask jitter of any sort in any of those other traces).

  I've since run similar tests on the SDG2042X to verify that its internal clock reference is only showing the low rate of frequency drift to be expected of any reasonable quality XO whether it's a VCXO or just a common or garden type XO. The one in the 2042 doesn't appear to be a VCTCXO as other users have assumed. In my opinion, it seems to suffer too much warm up drift and variation in frequency with temperature compared to a cheap 50MHz TCXO I'd been able to trim to within 30ppb of accuracy and stability for it to be a temperature compensated VCXO.

  However, the fact that my 50MHz TCXO board was used inside my FY6600 as an airflow deflector immediately above the small fan I'd installed into the base of the case to overcome the non-existent ventilation may have helped by reducing temperature variations to essentially just that of the room air, may have given it an unfair advantage over the one used in the 2042X. Do you know whether the 10MHz VCXO used in the SDG2000X series is actually a temperature compensated one or not?

 I've been rather preoccupied of late digging around for answers as to why my much modified FY6600-60M should seemingly outperform the SDG2042X in regard of the Sinc pulse waveform. I've had that question quite nicely answered by an EEVBlog member, posting under the pseudonym of "rf-loop" and now have a better understanding of why this should be so.

 Even so, Feeltech seem to reached a better compromise between the actual mathematical description of the Sinc pulse and a practical version that can be generated up to a useful maximum frequency than that chosen by Siglent (10 ripples versus the 20 used by Siglent). In effect, you don't hit the Nyquist limit with the Sinc pulse until Feeltech's version reaches a 12.5MHz fundamental whilst Siglent hits that limit at just 7.5MHz when thereafter they start falling apart when aliasing products start to intrude. Incidentally, the Feeltech one isn't really usable at 20MHz as I'd previously stated since, at this extreme, the 4ns clock jitter finally puts in an appearance. In the Siglent's case, you can't see any of the 3.333ns jitter since it has degenerated into a horrible mess long before reaching its own arbitrarily imposed 20MHz limit.

 The main reason why I concentrated on the Sinc pulse performance was simply because it was the only pulse waveform that the FY6600 could generate which was free of this 4ns jitter around the 10MHz frequency I was using to compare against other 10MHz sources. It stood out nicely against other sine waveform traces and it was easy to spot which way it or the test waveform was drifting - when both are the same sine wave shape, it's all too easy to lose track at the very slow drift rates I was monitoring (1mHz or less frequency difference - circa a 17 minute period).

 The SDG2042X pulse waveform being low jitter means I'm no longer reliant on the Sinc pulse as I had been with the Feeltech AWG so this has become just a matter of academic interest to me now. However, that still leaves the issue of what I (and other users) have noted about just how user hostile the front panel UI is in all of the Siglent range of AWG function generators. I'm sure that if Siglent put their mind to it and look to how Feeltech implemented their keypadless front panel UI, they could gain a considerable marketing advantage over their A and B brand rivals, never mind Rigol.

 For a start, picking on the easy target, they could enhance the frequency entry system into a less user hostile interface by shortening "Frequency" and "Amplitude" into their industry standard abbreviations of "Freq" and "Ampl" to make space for another 6 digits of resolution to allow 1uHz offsets to be applied throughout the whole frequency range DC to 120MHz in the case of the SDG2122X models and above, by using the "Universal Knob" to fine tune previously entered values by virtue of making the digit cursor sticky in between setting other parameters or performing other side tasks.

  Also, the under utilised push button on the Universal Knob could provide a "remember current user settings" function with a long (1.5s) press similar to the long press function of the channel enable buttons to toggle the output impedance settings between Hi-Z and 50 ohms which I only came across when I read through the whole firmware revision history. As for the rest of the front panel UI features and functions, quite frankly I just don't know where to begin since my day job was not, and still isn't, a UI developer but I feel certain, tricky a task as this undoubtedly is, that there's considerable scope for improvement here.

 If they do nothing else, just sorting out the frequency settings interface along the lines I've suggested will go a considerable way to improving their AWG product line's usability in my humble opinion.
=============================================================================================
[End Quote]

[EDIT] I just spotted the figure of "6 extra digits" in the third from last paragraph (which is fine for DC to 100MHz) but I must have meant to say 7 extra digits for the 120MHz and higher frequency models. I know abbreviating to Freq and Ampl only eliminates 5 characters but being a graphical rather than a character based display panel, there's sufficient room to modify the format to accommodate the extra 1 or 2 digits required to match or exceed the digit count in the humble FY6xxx's frequency display. ::)

 A major concern which I hadn't wanted to go into detail regarding the "Other Issues" with the UI was with regard to the nonsensical way control of the bi-directional external reference port had been implemented. Basically, when running off its internal reference, by default it outputs this low grade reference out of the external reference socket to pollute a daisy chained 10MHz distribution setup or back feed into an amplifier in a star based distribution setup - both are rather nasty situations.

 Since you can't get it to accept an external reference source before plugging said source into this socket beforehand, you're forced to connect first and then tell it to use the external reference. There's simply no option to disable outputting its own reference in order to comply with the need for a suitable 10MHz to be pre-connected without this pollution hazard - None! :wtf:

 If you think, after having successfully negotiated this annoyance, you're troubles are over, think again. The obvious act of just unplugging the external reference when you no longer need such precision for any of many good reasons to free up the 10MHz feed, results in a disabling of output to the DUT and an error message about the loss of the external reference, requiring you to manually tell it to go back to its internal reference (and resume outputting it onto the external reference socket -Gahh!). The error message warning is fair enough but the nonsense of disabling its output until you actually take some form of remedial action is totally unacceptable.

 As you can see from the above, I had good reason not to go into detail about the "Other Issues" in the UI. ::)

 I've attached an image of one of my screen shots that he'd edited to annotate it with his understanding of my description to which my response is in the very first paragraph of the quoted text of the email above.

[EDIT] I've just noticed that he'd erroneously linked the gpsdo to the LPRO-101. That wasn't the case, only the FY6600 was locked to the GPSDO - the LPRO-101 was running completely independently of any other interference.

 He did say he was passing on the information to the relevant managers in Siglent's organisation for them to consider but, as far as I'm aware, there's been no sign of any firmware updates addressing these non-trivial issues so I've lost my initial optimism in this regard.

 It's a great pity that high profile tech kit reviewers like Dave Jones fail to spot such glaring deficiencies. They have an excellent opportunity to shame Siglent into getting their act together by making comparisons with, of all things, those much despised (even reviled) FY6xxx series of AWGs that Feeltech / FeelElec have sprung upon the hobbyist market these past few years. They could have contributed so much more towards the development of improved UIs on these Siglent AWGs if they had dared to make such comparisons but, as things stand, we have to put up with a quite frankly user hostile UI. :(

 For now, I'm experiencing the rather unexpected situation where the expensive AWG is reserved for the "Less Demanding" work whilst that cheap 'toy' FY6600 is my go to AWG for the more demanding tasks.  ::) &  :wtf:
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: ebastler on April 11, 2021, 06:34:37 am
You are expecting a lot from that poor European Sales Manager. ::)

Frankly I could not follow. Are you complaining about a "woefully inadequate UI", about lack of stability of the built-in XO, or something else? While there is value in a detailed description, I would recommend that you try and describe the core issue in two paragraphs at most if you want to be heard by Siglent.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: 2N3055 on April 11, 2021, 07:35:50 am
You are expecting a lot from that poor European Sales Manager. ::)

Frankly I could not follow. Are you complaining about a "woefully inadequate UI", about lack of stability of the built-in XO, or something else? While there is value in a detailed description, I would recommend that you try and describe the core issue in two paragraphs at most if you want to be heard by Siglent.

I must agree I'm a bit lost too.. It resembles a bit "The musings on generators of signals whimsical Siglentian" by William Shakespeare.  :-DD
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: nctnico on April 11, 2021, 11:07:03 am
You are expecting a lot from that poor European Sales Manager. ::)

Frankly I could not follow. Are you complaining about a "woefully inadequate UI", about lack of stability of the built-in XO, or something else? While there is value in a detailed description, I would recommend that you try and describe the core issue in two paragraphs at most if you want to be heard by Siglent.
UI is a matter of taste but the general message is that the SDG2000X series is not very useful for use in time & frequency transfer (which requires stable operation with uHz frequency offsets) testing for various reasons. I already reached the same conclusion a long time ago. In order to fix this, Siglent will basically have to go over all the math again, check the implementation and get rid of accumulating rounding errors.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: ebastler on April 11, 2021, 01:21:59 pm
... the SDG2000X series is not very useful for use in time & frequency transfer (which requires stable operation with uHz frequency offsets) testing for various reasons. I already reached the same conclusion a long time ago. In order to fix this, Siglent will basically have to go over all the math again, check the implementation and get rid of accumulating rounding errors.

That may or may not be what Johnny B Good is talking about...
I read him discussing, in a single email to Siglent,

- unhealty jitter on the Siglent,
- something to do with temperature drift, where he has modified the Feeltech,
- bad choice of Sinc parameters by Siglent,
- not caring about the bad choice of Since parameters since he has low-enough jitter on the Siglent,
- various UI complaints which seem quite unrelated to any of the above.

If I were the Siglent sales manager at the receiving end of this, my conclusion would be: "Probably a knowledgeable guy, but with way too much time on his hands. I don't have the time to try and understand all of this, and I don't trust his judgement whether all or any of this is really important to people who do not have too much time on their hands." Hence my recommendation to shorten the message and focus on the key complaints.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Johnny B Good on April 11, 2021, 04:04:01 pm
@ebastler
@2N3055

 I'm afraid I have to agree with you both on that point (excessive Shakespearian like ramblings)  :palm: I only posted that extract from my penultimate reply to demonstrate that I had made some attempt at providing feedback to Siglent when I was given an opportunity to communicate directly with their head of European sales as a result of their difficulties in understanding a jitter issue with the internal reference oscillator in the SDG1032X I'd purchased and ultimately returned to Telonic for a refund so I could take my business elsewhere to purchase that underused SDG2042X now doing a sterling job as a plinth for my much modded but ageing FY6600.

 I've no real complaint against Telonic since they had expedited my return and request for a full refund in a timely fashion once I'd decided to take that route to resolve the deadlock created by Siglent themselves. Telonic seems to have been as much stuck in the middle as I had been. We were both victims of this weeks' long process created by Siglent's "technical staff"'s lack of experience of what now appears to be (thankfully!) an extremely rare jitter/phase noise fault in the SMD (VC?)XO used in the SDG1000X series.

 The fault in this case being jitter/phase noise with a frequency in the tens of Hz (flicker noise modulation) which can only be demonstrated either by use of an extended timebase delay in hundreds of ms which can be zoomed to the 10ns/div resolution at a point some 50 to 500ms after the trigger event on a 'scope with an excellent timebase stability (which the SDS2104X Plus possesses in abundance) or else, utilise "The bleedin' obvious" strategy of syntonising another oscillator source to the DUT for comparison using any old 'scope you happen to have on hand, capable of displaying such frequency sources (even if they happen to be a little beyond the official upper bandwidth limit of said 'scope) where the issue becomes blindingly obvious.

 I had spotted this problem straight away when I'd tried to compare the 10,000,000Hz sine wave output against my GPSDO and LPRO-101 sources to quantify the accuracy and stability of the SDG1042X's frequency output as one does (doesn't everyone play this game of "Chase Will o' the Whisp" when checking out a newly acquired signal generator?). Anyway, this was when I discovered the shameful shortcomings in the frequency settings UI which I soon realised also afflicted every single model of Siglent's AWG product line.

 You might wonder why I chose to spend yet more of my hard earned on the equally crippled SDG2042X in the full knowledge of this shortcoming. The answer is quite simply that I knew this could readily be fixed with a timely (if radical) firmware update. Unless Siglent had managed to paint themselves into a corner, the underlying hardware could hardly be inferior to that used in the FY6xxx range of AWGs from Feeltech, could it?. All the indications suggest this is just a matter of incompetence in the UI development team rather than one of hardware limitations.

 In short, I was optimistic that such a long overdue firmware upgrade must be be 'just round the corner' and this "Sow's Ear" would finally be given its long overdue "Silk Purse" makeover. Unless Siglent are about to prove me wrong, this doesn't appear to be the case. >:(

 I've been meaning to gather my thoughts on the UI defficiencies and put together a calm and concise list of the issues that need addressing to forward to Siglent's technical director but, like everyone else it would seem who also have reason to complain, I've been putting this off since it's hard to avoid a level of "Rantiness" creeping into such a list (there's just so much that is insanely wrong with the UI and its features, such "Rantiness" seems almost inevitable).

 I may eventually get 'a round tuit' and actually present such a complaints list but don't rely on my efforts alone when you've all got reason to complain and make some contribution to the "Squeeky Wheel Effect" that seems the only way we're gonna get this particular wheel oiled.

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Johnny B Good on April 11, 2021, 07:53:27 pm
You are expecting a lot from that poor European Sales Manager. ::)

Frankly I could not follow. Are you complaining about a "woefully inadequate UI", about lack of stability of the built-in XO, or something else? While there is value in a detailed description, I would recommend that you try and describe the core issue in two paragraphs at most if you want to be heard by Siglent.
UI is a matter of taste but the general message is that the SDG2000X series is not very useful for use in time & frequency transfer (which requires stable operation with uHz frequency offsets) testing for various reasons. I already reached the same conclusion a long time ago. In order to fix this, Siglent will basically have to go over all the math again, check the implementation and get rid of accumulating rounding errors.

 I was unloading all of the original SDG1032X's woes upon 'that poor European Sales Manager" simply because I'd been given an opportunity to communicate with him and he was, at least, in a position to forward all the evidence (screenshots and, I think, a few short movie clips) and my conclusions to the appropriate department.

 The original issue had been the outrageous flicker like phase noise in the internal reference of the SDG1032X which I'd returned for a refund by that point in time. The SDG2042X was only mentioned to indicate that its own internal reference was entirely free of the issue that had plagued the SDG1032X I'd returned, observing that it merely exhibited the usual behaviour expected of a good quality SMD VCXO (not in the same league as an OCXO, or even a TCXO of course) and that it was well within its given spec.

 I'm not sure about the existence of "rounding errors" but  do recall seeing a posting about an issue with FM which looked like the result of a rounding error. As far as setting a specific carrier frequency was concerned, what rounding errors to be had were, like the Feeltech, vanishingly small.

 When I finally added an external reference socket to injection lock the OCXO I'd installed into the Feeltech unit, one of the tests I did was to compare its 10,000,000,000,000uHz output to the GPSDO's 10MHz reference to see how accurately it could synthesise this "non-magical" frequency. It took a day's run time to detect with reasonable certainty that this amounted to a 1 second error's worth of phase shift in 1.8 million years ::)

 One of the other tests I did, believing it could only be done using the same technique, was to answer the question as to whether making a 1uHz adjustment had any validity. After struggling with the 200ps or so pk-pk jitter to discern a 1ns drift, I hit upon the zero jitter technique of setting both channels to 10MHz and dialling the 1uHz into either of the channels to look for a 100ps of drift now so clear to observe in just a matter of 16 or 17 minutes. There was a slight discrepancy in the timings between a positive and a negative 1uHz offset, hinting at the first signs of rounding error creeping in.

 I was so impressed by these findings it never occurred to me to try and figure out a way repeat these tests at the 'magical frequencies', namely 12.5, 25 or 50MHz by way of a 'sanity check'. I've since come to realise that I could have simply used the 'scope's hold off feature to trigger every fifth pulse of a 50MHz sine wave test signal to compare against the 10MHz reference. I'll give this a try later on to confirm whether this would be a reliable work around to making such a 'sanity check'.

 Anyway, that was all about how good the Feeltech unit had proved to be. It says nothing about the Siglent kit but one would reasonably hope this would be at least as good as, if not better than a cheap toy AWG :-//

 Incidentally, it has now occurred to me that this limitation on the frequency setting UI might just simply be an inheritance from earlier AWG models that lacked any external reference socket where even the 8 digit resolution would have been considered 'overkill' for the needs of even a 5ppm rated XO.

 I may be wrong (ICBA to check right now) but it would neatly explain this issue as simply an oversight in revamping the UI to match the improved capabilities of the hardware. The cack handed implementation of the function of a bi-directional reference input/output socket would suggest a lack of experience on the part of the UI developer(s?) in such matters.

 These models were released to market over 5 years ago. In view of their firmware updating record on their other kit, you'd think Siglent would have gotten off their backsides long since to address these issues. It would appear that Siglent's AWG division are seriously lacking software development talent or even minimal support. The hardware is obviously capable of a lot more than the UI firmware allows (most probably by a very wide margin) and one just has to wonder why Siglent has allowed such an egregious situation to carry on for so long without any redress.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: fourfathom on May 11, 2021, 02:36:05 am
There was a slight discrepancy in the timings between a positive and a negative 1uHz offset, hinting at the first signs of rounding error creeping in.

Is this a rounding error, or just the intrinsic behavior of a power-of-two Numerically Controlled Oscillator?  No matter how wide the control word is, there are some frequencies that just can't be generated.  10.000... MHz may be one of those, and the two closest achievable values aren't necessarily equidistant from 10 MHz.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: colorado.rob on May 11, 2021, 03:33:47 am
I seem to have an issue with the counter statistics when running a long-term clock stability test.  After a while, the Sdev goes from showing mHz (which I assume to be correct) to showing Hz, with a value that is not really possible given the absolute range (min/max) of the counter statistics.

In the attached screenshot you can see that the SDev value is 3.86... Hz.  But the maximum deviation (min to max) is less than 3Hz.  This only happens only when the counter has been running for a while.  I don't know when it happens exactly.  My hunch is that some bug causes it to jump by an order of magnitude at some point because a little while after it starts it levels out to around 300-400mHz.

I am running firmware 2.01.01.35R3B1 -- it's not the absolute latest, but the only change in the newer firmware is a change to the key debounce.  I have absolutely no problems with key bounce now, so I don't necessarily want that update.[attach=1]
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Johnny B Good on May 13, 2021, 02:56:11 am
There was a slight discrepancy in the timings between a positive and a negative 1uHz offset, hinting at the first signs of rounding error creeping in.

Is this a rounding error, or just the intrinsic behavior of a power-of-two Numerically Controlled Oscillator?  No matter how wide the control word is, there are some frequencies that just can't be generated.  10.000... MHz may be one of those, and the two closest achievable values aren't necessarily equidistant from 10 MHz.

 I think in this case, "rounding error" is an appropriate description. :)  I was working to the limits of the FY6600's frequency resolution (1μHz) and that of the SDS1202X-E's timebase (5ns/ setting) to time a 1ns phase shift against the 10MHz reference I'd set on the other channel.

 I'd observed a small deviation from the expected 16m 40s timing by something like 15 seconds longer in one case and some 15 seconds shorter in the other case (about a +/- 1.5% error, depending on whether I was applying a negative or positive 1μHz offset).

 Since I was verifying that the 1μHz adjustment  steps weren't simply a cosmetic fiction  to prop up an exaggerated frequency resolution claim, that minor error between positive and negative 1μHz frequency offsets was to my mind,  small enough as not to warrant any deeper investigation to quantify it by another order of magnitude of precision with yet another six hours worth of test runs.

 I'd already run an earlier 24 hour test run to compare the external 10MHz reference input frequency against its 10MHz output frequency, calculating a 1 second phase shift error between the two in 1.8 million years ::) I've already triple checked my calculations on that last test so, if you like, you can work out this 10MHz setting "rounding error" for yourself. ;)  Please note, this is a completely different metric to that of the previous 1μHz offset test against the other channel's fixed 10MHz setting.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: fourfathom on May 13, 2021, 05:49:06 am
I think in this case, "rounding error" is an appropriate description. :)

I ran into this issue with my AWG when I had it generate a "1 Hz" output, giving the AWG and my Time Interval Counter the same 10 MHz reference clock.  I could get close to 1 Hz, but there was always some measurable difference (still in-spec), due to the way the AWG works.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Roger Need on May 13, 2021, 06:57:09 pm


Roger

In the attached screenshot you can see that the SDev value is 3.86... Hz.

How do you get the 2042X to save a screenshot to the USB flash drive?  I have not found anything in the User manual.

Roger
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bicycleguy on May 25, 2021, 10:26:45 pm
Any idea when Siglent will update the Python examples to Python3 as 2 is soon to be deprecated and I don't want to spend any more time with it.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on May 25, 2021, 10:35:15 pm
Any idea when Siglent will update the Python examples to Python3 as 2 is soon to be deprecated and I don't want to spend any more time with it.
This one ?
https://siglentna.com/application-note/programming-example-create-a-stair-step-waveform-using-python-and-pyvisa-using-lan-sdg1000x-sdg2000x-sdg6000x/
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bicycleguy on May 25, 2021, 10:56:12 pm
tautech,
Thanks !   That was fast!

I haven't got it working yet, but close.  Got it working from my mac, awesome!
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: exe on May 26, 2021, 09:00:36 am
Any idea when Siglent will update the Python examples to Python3 as 2 is soon to be deprecated and I don't want to spend any more time with it.
This one ?
https://siglentna.com/application-note/programming-example-create-a-stair-step-waveform-using-python-and-pyvisa-using-lan-sdg1000x-sdg2000x-sdg6000x/

On my screen the formatting is corrupted: indentation seems to be lost. (identation is essential for python scripts to work)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: ebastler on May 26, 2021, 03:43:33 pm
https://siglentna.com/application-note/programming-example-create-a-stair-step-waveform-using-python-and-pyvisa-using-lan-sdg1000x-sdg2000x-sdg6000x/

On my screen the formatting is corrupted: indentation seems to be lost. (identation is essential for python scripts to work)

The copy of the source code in the downloadable ZIP file is fine though.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: colorado.rob on May 27, 2021, 12:52:15 pm


Roger

In the attached screenshot you can see that the SDev value is 3.86... Hz.
How do you get the 2042X to save a screenshot to the USB flash drive?  I have not found anything in the User manual.

Roger

I grab screenshots via SCPI over the network.

https://gist.github.com/mobilinkd/8a07cc124946c87715c6a1458118411e
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Timpert on June 03, 2021, 08:18:35 am
A couple of days ago I had a power supply failure on my SDG2042X. The whole unit just went dead after it had been powered on continuously for a couple of days. Of course I dove right into it, and I found that one of the Schottky rectifier diodes for the +18V supply had shorted out. It was diode D21 in this picture (from member Blue): https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=1205132;image (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=1205132;image). I removed that diode and the unit happily started up, running the 18V on one diode only. The diode that was still working barely heated up. Also, the voltage across the diodes is fine (no reverse voltage peaks can be seen on a 200 MHz bandwidth scope) and the current drawn from +18 V is not more than 0.5 A. So D21 did not have any reason to fail, but it did nonetheless. I replaced both D20 and D21 with BR36 diodes (rated for 3 A instead of 2) and everything seems to work fine again. The diodes remain cool as far as I can tell with my IR thermometer and finger test.

I also noticed that I have an old version of the power supply. Mine uses an NXP TEA1610T controller which is now listed as obsolete on the NXP website. The one from Blue uses an ST controller (L6599AD) and has a different layout at the primary side, but at the secondary side it looks the same as mine. The startup resistors on mine are warm but not alarmingly hot. Still puzzled about the cause of that diode failure though. It really shouldn't have died.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Timpert on June 06, 2021, 06:56:54 pm
The generator has been powered up continuously for four days since the repair without issues. So I guess I did fix it 8).

Just out of curiosity I took the failed diode and measured it. Sure enough, my bench DMM saw it as a short in both directions. So then I connected it to my lab PSU and cranked up the current in what would normally be blocking direction. All of a sudden, it became a diode again! It read perfectly normal as a Schottky diode after the treatment, so I guess the die was OK, but somehow (whisker?) a parallel short circuit had developed.

Another thing I noticed: I was running firmware 2.01.01.23R8. After the repair, I updated it to 2.01.01.35R3B2. After the update, the power consumption increased by one Watt. So apparently, the new firmware makes the FPGA work a bit harder. At first I was planning to put in a somewhat quieter fan, but I guess it would be better to just keep the original fan. Perhaps interesting to do a bit of research on this, but for now I'll just go back to using it.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: blurpy on July 13, 2021, 04:54:23 pm
I've done some measurements of the THD of the SDG2042X using a QA401 audio analyzer to see how it stacks up to the datasheet:

Quote
Total Harmonic Distortion: 0.075% @ 0 dBm, 10 Hz ~ 20 kHz

These are the raw numbers from my measurements:

[attachimg=1]

And in a graph to see the trend more easily:

[attachimg=2]

Here's what the spectrum looks like for 20Hz @ 1V RMS:

[attachimg=3]

And for 1kHz @ 0dBm/0.224V RMS:

[attachimg=4]

And 1kHz @ 7V RMS:

[attachimg=5]

And lastly 20kHz @ 3.6V RMS:

[attachimg=6]

You can see 2 channels on these images, and the left (yellow) channel is the SDG2042X, and the right (red) channel is the signal coming from the built in generator of the QA401, for comparison. The SDG can go up to 7V RMS, while the built in generator will go almost to 2V RMS, so in some of the screenshots the voltage levels between the channels will be different.

The SDG does better than the datasheet specifies in all cases. It does quite well across the audio frequency range, with 20Hz being slightly worse than other frequencies. Above 20Hz you get around 0.004% and 0.005% THD up to about 3.5V RMS before it steeply climbs to around 0.03% and 0.04%.

I found it fun looking into this. I didn't think it would do so well, since I've been hearing how it's useless for audio. It's useless for measuring modern DACs and preamps of course, but it will be good enough for many power amplifiers. Low distortion, but not ultra low distortion.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: mawyatt on July 14, 2021, 12:05:00 am
Thx for the effort, results are better than I expected ::)

Best,
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Calvin on July 14, 2021, 05:03:24 am
Hi,

the QA401´s ADC own optimum Level-vers-THD range is around -16dBV.
When measuring the Analyzer in loopback one can see the HD2 breaking through the noisefloor from -16dBV on up.
The THD curve @20Hz/0dB probabely shows more of the ADC´s own distortion than the actual DUT´s distortion.

regards
Calvin
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: blurpy on July 14, 2021, 05:04:32 pm
Hi,

the QA401´s ADC own optimum Level-vers-THD range is around -16dBV.
When measuring the Analyzer in loopback one can see the HD2 breaking through the noisefloor from -16dBV on up.
The THD curve @20Hz/0dB probabely shows more of the ADC´s own distortion than the actual DUT´s distortion.

regards
Calvin

Here is one at 20Hz -13dBV for comparison:

[attachimg=1]

If we compare them we can see that HD2 for the loopback is lower than on the 0dBV graph, while HD2 for the SDG is more or less the same. So it could be that at -13dBV it's the SDG that is the limiting factor, and at 0dBV it's the ADC. I am not sure. Interesting comment.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: yaybee on August 19, 2021, 09:27:37 am
Hi,

Anyone tried the SCPI mode command?
I can get it from PHASE-LOCKED to INDEPENDENT, but MODE PHASE-LOCKED does not work to go back.
Can we report this somewhere?

From programming guide:
3.30 Mode Select Command
DESCRIPTION
This command sets or gets the phase mode.
COMMAND SYNTAX
MODE <parameter>
<parameter>:= {PHASE-LOCKED, INDEPENDENT}.
QUERY SYNTAX
MODE?
RESPONSE FORMAT
MODE <parameter>
EXAMPLE
Set the phase mode to INDEPENDENT:
MODE INDEPENDENT
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Hexley on August 19, 2021, 06:03:59 pm
Could not reproduce the issue on an SDG1032X. The MODE command switches from PHASE-LOCKED to INDEPENDENT and back to PHASE-LOCKED as expected.

Any chance of a typo in your SCPI command string?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: yaybee on August 21, 2021, 06:38:20 am
Thx,

I am using the Testcontroller of HKJ and it shows the right command being send. However this is the only command with a dash in it I use.
Need to make a line trace to see what is actually transmitted.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Hexley on August 21, 2021, 04:56:51 pm
FWIW, I also used HKJ's software. Here is a screen dump for reference. Hope it helps.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: yaybee on August 26, 2021, 06:37:51 pm
Thx again,

I made a trace with WireShark and I cannot see any errors on the input, but still no mode switch.

Trace from INDEPENDENT to PHASE-LOCKED , this does not work:
Code: [Select]
234 126.942140 192.168.1.101 192.168.1.11 VXI-11 Core 126 V1 DEVICE_WRITE Call (Reply In 235) LID=0 mode?\n
235 126.943784 192.168.1.11 192.168.1.101 VXI-11 Core 90 V1 DEVICE_WRITE Reply (Call In 234) No Error
236 126.961020 192.168.1.101 192.168.1.11 VXI-11 Core 122 V1 DEVICE_READ Call (Reply In 237) LID=0
237 126.962630 192.168.1.11 192.168.1.101 VXI-11 Core 114 V1 DEVICE_READ Reply (Call In 236) No Error MODE INDEPENDENT\n
395 253.518632 192.168.1.101 192.168.1.11 VXI-11 Core 138 V1 DEVICE_WRITE Call LID=0 MODE PHASE-LOCKED\n
396 253.520265 192.168.1.11 192.168.1.101 VXI-11 Core 90 V1 DEVICE_WRITE Reply (Call In 395) No Error
407 257.349581 192.168.1.101 192.168.1.11 VXI-11 Core 126 V1 DEVICE_WRITE Call (Reply In 408) LID=0 mode?\n
408 257.351193 192.168.1.11 192.168.1.101 VXI-11 Core 90 V1 DEVICE_WRITE Reply (Call In 407) No Error
409 257.362494 192.168.1.101 192.168.1.11 VXI-11 Core 122 V1 DEVICE_READ Call (Reply In 410) LID=0
410 257.364713 192.168.1.11 192.168.1.101 VXI-11 Core 114 V1 DEVICE_READ Reply (Call In 409) No Error MODE INDEPENDENT\n

Trace from PHASE-LOCKED to INDEPENDENT, this works:
Code: [Select]
21 10.449654 192.168.1.101 192.168.1.11 VXI-11 Core 126 V1 DEVICE_WRITE Call (Reply In 22) LID=0 mode?\n
22 10.451537 192.168.1.11 192.168.1.101 VXI-11 Core 90 V1 DEVICE_WRITE Reply (Call In 21) No Error
23 10.461278 192.168.1.101 192.168.1.11 VXI-11 Core 122 V1 DEVICE_READ Call (Reply In 24) LID=0
24 10.463151 192.168.1.11 192.168.1.101 VXI-11 Core 114 V1 DEVICE_READ Reply (Call In 23) No Error MODE PHASE-LOCKED\n
74 29.456721 192.168.1.101 192.168.1.11 VXI-11 Core 138 V1 DEVICE_WRITE Call LID=0 MODE INDEPENDENT\n
75 29.458428 192.168.1.11 192.168.1.101 VXI-11 Core 90 V1 DEVICE_WRITE Reply (Call In 74) No Error
79 35.880618 192.168.1.101 192.168.1.11 VXI-11 Core 126 V1 DEVICE_WRITE Call LID=0 mode?\n
80 35.882400 192.168.1.11 192.168.1.101 VXI-11 Core 90 V1 DEVICE_WRITE Reply (Call In 79) No Error
81 35.897741 192.168.1.101 192.168.1.11 VXI-11 Core 122 V1 DEVICE_READ Call (Reply In 82) LID=0
82 35.899510 192.168.1.11 192.168.1.101 VXI-11 Core 114 V1 DEVICE_READ Reply (Call In 81) No Error MODE INDEPENDENT\n

So I hope someone will test this on the SDG2042X/SDG2122X with firmware 2.01.01.35R3B2, just to be sure.

Later this week I will publish my latest version of the SDG Testcontroller config. I hope you have a look at it.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Orange on August 26, 2021, 07:04:01 pm
Yep, this is a bug in firmware 2.01.01.35R3B2

Python code
-generator is in phase locked mode when issued-
Code: [Select]
inst.write('*IDN?')
print(inst.read())
inst.write('MODE?')
print(inst.read())

inst.write('MODE INDEPENDENT')
inst.write('MODE?')
print(inst.read())

inst.write('MODE PHASE-LOCKED')
inst.write('MODE?')
print(inst.read())

Output

Code: [Select]
Siglent Technologies,SDG2122X,SDG2XCAC5RXXXX,2.01.01.35R3B2

MODE PHASE-LOCKED

MODE INDEPENDENT

MODE INDEPENDENT
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Hexley on August 27, 2021, 12:02:16 am
So I hope someone will test this on the SDG2042X/SDG2122X with firmware 2.01.01.35R3B2, just to be sure.

Later this week I will publish my latest version of the SDG Testcontroller config. I hope you have a look at it.
It is interesting that the firmware levels for 1000X and 2000X have diverged. The 1000x is still on  V1.01.01.33R1B6. I thought they were kept in sync, but perhaps not. Not sure that I would be in a hurry to upgrade to 35R3B2, even if it is released for the 1000X family. :-)

Looking forward to trying your new config file for TC.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: yaybee on August 28, 2021, 06:36:26 pm
@Orange, thanks for confirming the error.

@Hexley, the new Testcontroller version is available, see https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/program-that-can-log-from-many-multimeters/msg3652198/#msg3652198 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/program-that-can-log-from-many-multimeters/msg3652198/#msg3652198)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Hexley on August 28, 2021, 06:57:31 pm
@Hexley, the new Testcontroller version is available, see https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/program-that-can-log-from-many-multimeters/msg3652198/#msg3652198 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/program-that-can-log-from-many-multimeters/msg3652198/#msg3652198)
Got it and loaded it. Will report any feedback in HKJ's thread.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Messtechniker on September 03, 2021, 06:30:26 am
My SDG2042X produces a bit of 50 Hz noise thus affecting
any THD + Noise measurements :scared:
See PICs. This noise is definitely from the generator,
since is disappears upon switching the generator output off.
Are any mods known for this?

[attachimg=1]

[attachimg=2]
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: hpw on September 03, 2021, 08:48:05 am
A simple ground loop issue... use star connections :D

Or use symmetric setup one as + the other phase inverted.

Also for Audio measurement not the yellow one the egg... as first harmonics at -90 dB
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: ebastler on September 03, 2021, 12:34:16 pm
A simple ground loop issue... use star connections :D
Or use symmetric setup one as + the other phase inverted.
Or, since the spectrum was apparently acquired by AudioTester PC software: If it is running on a notebook, just run it on batteries for the duratrion of the measurement.

Quote
Also for Audio measurement not the yellow one the egg... as first harmonics at -90 dB
Well, it's a 16 bit generator. Not too bad, is it?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Messtechniker on September 03, 2021, 03:35:55 pm
I don't think its a ground loop issue. Why should the 50 Hz noise
disappear when switching the generator output signal off via its output button?
Disconnecting the BNC cable from the generator output also makes the 50 Hz noise disappear.
Same result as depicted for the SDG 2042X in the OFF state.
This excludes the possibility of a ground loop on the measurement side.
Maybe someone would like to do the same measurements on his SDG 2042X unit.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: blurpy on September 03, 2021, 04:49:56 pm
Maybe someone would like to do the same measurements on his SDG 2042X unit.
Did you see my tests just a few posts back?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: TurboTom on September 03, 2021, 06:26:56 pm
@Messtechniker:

You may want to perform the same experiment with a 50 Ohms through-terminator connected directly to the AWG's output BNC. This way, even if powered off, there's always a (fairly) low impedance link of the signal conductor to ground close to the source. If you now notice the 50Hz hum all the time the AWG is connected to the power line (regardless wether turned on or off), it's clearly a ground loop. If it's only there while the output is active, it's the AWG's fault.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Messtechniker on September 04, 2021, 06:25:38 am
Solved: Its a ground loop because the 0V
reference potential at the SDG output is internally connected to
the protective ground conductor. As the PC 0V is also 
connected to protective ground --->perfect ground loop >:D
Only (safe) way out. Use a balanced input. :palm:

Thanks TurboTom for putting me on the right track :-+
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Johnny B Good on September 05, 2021, 03:43:48 am
Solved: Its a ground loop because the 0V
reference potential at the SDG output is internally connected to
the protective ground conductor. As the PC 0V is also 
connected to protective ground --->perfect ground loop >:D
Only (safe) way out. Use a balanced input. :palm:

Thanks TurboTom for putting me on the right track :-+

 Apologies for the seemingly off-topic contribution that follows but in view of the fact that many of the members following this thread will have owned or still own one of these Feeltech AWGs or its many clones and copycats, I think it will still provide an interesting insight into this issue of unwanted mains earth ground loops arising out of misguided attempts by both users and manufacturer alike to eliminate the half live mains ESD issue in what is essentially a class II electrical appliance. Yes! It is a bit of a rant against Feeltech in particular but considering the circumstances, this can't really be avoided.

 This discussion over the effect of mains earth ground loops in such test configurations reminds me of the singular charm of FeelTech's FY6600 "Toy AWG" lack of a safety earth connection which neatly disposed of this particular pitfall. :) Admittedly, this did present a half live mains ESD issue if you forgot the mantra "Connect ground return first and disconnect it last" when connecting up to an ESD vulnerable part of an otherwise normally ESD proof device.

 Unfortunately, Feeltech had taken note of the many complaints about this half mains touch voltage issue and the resulting ESD hazard made in the long running EEVBlog FY6600 topic thread so when they decided to release a revamped FY6600 in the form of the FY6800, the chief bean counter bastard in charge of the whole Feeltech operation must have insisted that the C13 socket upgrade be wired up at the lowest possible cost regardless of the consequences.

 In this case, the consequences were the creation of an earth loop issue where none had previously existed, an increased noise ripple level in the psu's zero volt return rail and a reduction in electrical safety since they'd simply stolen one the two zero volt return wires in the 6 way ribbon cable connection between the psu and main board so as to divert it directly to the PE tag on the C13 socket as cheaply as possible.

 Not only did this wilful act of vandalism introduce an earth loop issue that had never previously existed in the FY6600 and its predecessors, it had actually made it less safe than before since the stolen wire lacked sufficient surge current rating to handle the hefty currents that could arise from a live to ground contact fault!

 Incredibly, the FY6900 has also had this earthing bodge inflicted upon it. You'd have thought by then, that they would have at least come up with a safer way to connect the BNC ground rail to the C14 socket's PE tag seeing as how the component parts had all been reassembled into a completely rejigged plastic enclosure. What made this bodge even worse than the one used in the FY6800 was the routing of this wire against components on the smpsu board carrying mains voltage due to its orientation having been rotated 90 degrees with respect to the original layout.

 Since all of these AWGs still use class II smpsu boards inside of a plastic enclosure, they still conform to the requirements of a class II mains appliance, allowing it to be powered with a twin core mains lead absent a safety earth wire. In this case, the best way to make use of a C14 or C6 three pole mains connection upgrade is to wire a 'static drain' resistor from the PE tag to the zero volt rail using a lowish value resistor in the range 1K to 10KR to attenuate the half live mains touch / ESD hazard down to just 50mV to 500mV rms respectively on 240v mains supplies and assuming a worst case BNC shield interconnect resistance as high as one ohm (which condition also attenuates unwanted ingress of noise and random DC voltage offsets from the mains earth wiring by some 60 to 80dB).

 None of these Feeltech AWGs actually require a safety ground connection other than as a means of providing a safe and convenient connection for a 1 to 10 kR static drain / half live mains leakage shunt path to ground. And, of course this also applies to its many clones and copycats built into cheap plastic enclosures demanding no bigger a power requirement than what a 10W rated smpsu (whether internal or from a cheap wallwart) can supply.

 These typically employ a 1nF Y cap to shunt the switching noise that is capacitively coupled via the interwinding capacitance of the transformer onto the dc output back to its source in the mains rectified HT supply powering the switching circuit in order to satisfy EMC requirements. The use of direct rectification of the incoming mains supply creates a half mains voltage ripple with respect to the neutral and ground which this Y cap passes onto the DC output terminals as a high impedance voltage source.

 At 50 Hz the capacitor has a reactance of just over 3M ohms limiting the touch current to a maximum of 37μA on a 240v supply. Higher rated class II smpsus (20 to 30 watt range?) typically use a 2.2nF Y cap which has a reactance of just under 1.5M ohms resulting in a maximum leakage current in the region of 80μA on 240v supplies. ISTR a figure of 85μA being the maximum allowed for class II certified psus which limits the maximum power rating of a cheap 'n'cheerful class II smpsu using a transformer not equipped with an inter winding shield foil layer to screen the secondary winding(s) from the high energy switching noise on the primary.

 Anyway, for those interested in eliminating half live leakage/ESD issues or the manufacturers' misguided grounding measures to eliminate such issues which cause mysterious random DC offsets and unwanted ingress of hum and noise from the mains earth wiring, that's pretty much all you need to know to cure your bargain basement Chinese AWG of its maladies. >:D
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: McBryce on September 05, 2021, 07:39:44 am
Hi Johnny,
      you are aware that the Siglent SDG2042 isn't in any way based on the design of the Feeltech device. It also isn't in a plastic case, based on the same design or even follow any of the same design decisions? It's a €600 device that you are comparing to an €80 toy? I would expect that any issues Siglent need to remedy will be approached at a whole different level than the guys at Feeltech would.

McBryce.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Johnny B Good on September 05, 2021, 10:20:30 pm
Hi Johnny,
      you are aware that the Siglent SDG2042 isn't in any way based on the design of the Feeltech device. It also isn't in a plastic case, based on the same design or even follow any of the same design decisions? It's a €600 device that you are comparing to an €80 toy? I would expect that any issues Siglent need to remedy will be approached at a whole different level than the guys at Feeltech would.

McBryce.

 Damn right!  >:( Oh, and BTW, thanks for giving me the opportunity to explain my (justifiably) jaundiced view of Siglent's AWG/function generator product line.

 Quite frankly imo, Siglent should be hanging their collective heads in utter shame over the shambles of a UI that's been imposed on their whole AWG range. I can't believe that the DDS technology is any less capable than that used in the Feeltech models from the FY6600 series onwards in regard of the 1μHz resolution across a 14 digit range (DC through to 60 or the 100MHz maximum of the latest FY6900-100M).

 It's a complete and utter mystery to me as to why they should have deemed a maximum of 11 digits via the keypad (with a mere 8 digits displayed maximum if using the rotary encoder) should be sufficient in a function generator that can be locked to an external atomic reference that can provide the required level of stability and accuracy to justify a 1μHz step size at least up to and around the 10MHz region of interest.

 It's not as if the display lacks room for the additional six digits required to allow 1μHz steps up to the 100MHz region to be displayed if they abbreviate "Frequency" to the industry standard form, "Freq". If these AWG models had lacked an external reference socket, these limitations wouldn't have been an issue.

 I can only guess that the external reference socket (unfortunately cursed with a b-directional function to allow it to export its internal +/-1ppm 10MHz clock by default to create mayhem on an existing linear bus section of a lab reference distribution system) had been a late addition in its development program wherein the additional 6 digits' worth of resolution had failed to make it into the original firmware design brief, leaving only the matter of this add-on feature as a last minute hack job to add an ill considered set of user options into the UI.

 As you can see, this is the other major fail in these Siglent AWGs. If they'd invested a few more cents into adding a separate reference output socket to eliminate this bi-directional clash scenario, there would not have been any such risk of polluting a lab reference distribution with such a low grade 10MHz source.

 I'm well aware of the benefit of synchronising to a single master clock even when it falls far short of the accuracy expected of a dedicated lab standard 10MHz reference but when you're cost cutting on sockets, you should at least put a little more thought into the management of your bi-directional reference socket's functionality than has been demonstrated here. ::)

 I'm sure there are a few more shortcomings in the UI but these two are the most egregious imo considering it's now some five six! years and counting. I'll leave the lesser shortcomings to be reported by others for the time being.

 I've already had numerous email discussions just over 11 months ago with Thomas Rottach, head of Siglent's European sales division, involving an SDG1032X I'd just purchased from Telonic which had a faulty VCXO (it looked like a flicker noise ripple effect on its EFC pin) as a result of Telonic's own "technicians" and the supposed technicians they'd consulted with at Siglent EU failing to understand my very clear sequence of DSO screengrabs and video evidence of the problem. In the end, I gave up on getting a price adjusted exchange for an SDG2042X out of Telonic and insisted on a refund on the basis of it being unfit for purpose.

 To be fair, Telonic had been as much a victim of this muddle as I had and obliged my request with alacrity, even to the extent of collecting the ailing SDG1032X at their own expense. I'd have preferred to upgrade my spending with them but the process had dragged on for several weeks by then, so I ordered the SDS2042X from Labtronics from whom I'd purchased my SDS1202X-E two years earlier.

 Within a week of placing the order, I had a brand new SDG2042X in my hands. As per usual, I had picked the worst day of the week, possibly a bank holiday weekend, to place my order and expect a 3 day delivery schedule. Anyhow, the first thing I did was to repeat my "Frequency accuracy and stability tests" to verify that it was completely devoid of the 'jitter issue' I'd discovered in the SDG1032X following this up by confirming that this shared exactly the same UI defects I'd mentioned to Thomas Rottach (head of Siglent's European Sales Division) in no uncertain terms during my many email exchanges.

 He had told me that he would pass on my UI related concerns  to the Siglent factory technicians for consideration in the next firmware update. I've just checked for the latest firmware update but I see it's the same one that had been released almost two years ago which I'd downloaded back in November last year.  So much for Mr. Rottach's assurances. :(

 There did happen to be an external/internal reference clock related fix in this last update but it related to disabling the automatic reversion to its internal clock reference on detection of the loss of the external reference, with an icon to signify this state and a pop up message whenever you try to turn a channel on.

 This is far from the solution I'd hoped to see and strongly suggests that the hardware involved is incapable of using its internal reference without polluting the connection to the external reference network with a duplicate of its own clock. IOW, an issue that can't be properly fixed with a firmware update, hence the kludge solution used in this last (final?) update.

 Fortunately, this is not the end of the world since the problem can be worked around by giving it a dedicated feed from a 10MHz distribution amp that can provide the necessary isolation between its ports. It's the strangely crippled frequency entry UI that's the most egregious shortcoming of these function generators and that's a fix that does look amenable to a firmware update.

 Who knows! Perhaps one day soon, we may get to see the full frequency setting capabilities of Siglent's AWG range finally released from its prison of incompetent firmware coding to match the reach of that of the Feeltech FY6600 and its successors. Despite the lack of a numeric entry keypad (or possibly because of this lack) Feeltech's solution to providing the means to adjust the frequency in 1μHz steps all the way from DC to 60 or even 100 MHz looks like an act of genius compared to Siglent's rather lackadaisical effort.

 Yes, as supplied, the last 8 digits were a complete waste of space until it had been upgraded to an OCXO clock reference with an external 10MHz clock reference socket. It seems to me that Feeltech had designed the FY6600 to the highest standard and then proceeded to apply their cost cutting compromises only to those components that could be readily upgraded by the keen cash starved hobbyist (Feeltech's target demographic) to polish this rough diamond into something of a gem that could ultimately outshine the SDG1042X and its contemporaries. A numeric keypad is a nice luxury but, at the end of the day in this class of test gear, that's all it is, a non-essential 'luxury'.

 Don't get me wrong, I'd retire the FY6600 in a heartbeat as soon as Siglent fix their crippled frequency setting UI. Until that happy day arrives, the FY6600 will remain my 'go to' function generator and my SDG2042X can continue its usefulness as a plinth for the FY6600.

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: nike75 on September 11, 2021, 01:09:23 pm
Hi,
now I have a totally bricked device.

Monts ago I found troubles with power supply on my SDG2042X. After long working and try to power cycle (power off and power on again) PS enter in starting loops, voltages is rised but not to nominal values and restart. Fan also on and of every second. If device is switched off, relax few minutes and power on again - all is OK.

Currently I found problem and fix. I will send separately post for this patch.

But many times before after these power loops, my device lose config values, even more - startup counter is zeroed few times.
For safety reasons I make backups on all mtd's. During nandump I found several ECC corected bitflips.

Today I decided to do some NAND test and after check all mtd's with nandtest, ls command go to return invalid argument, and SDG become unresponsibled via buttons.
These were the last moments of his life - after power cycle only fan working, no LCD, nothing.

All voltages are OK, CPU led light in green, 25MHz is OK

At the moment I'm not sure where to start  :(



Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: thinkfat on September 11, 2021, 03:00:01 pm
"nandtest" does destructive tests. If you didn't use the "-k" option, your NAND content is now "gonsky".
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: nike75 on September 11, 2021, 03:03:21 pm
Yes, I actually use nandtest without any option   |O

Now my nanddump files can help me?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: thinkfat on September 11, 2021, 03:24:52 pm
Yes, I actually use nandtest without any option   |O

Now my nanddump files can help me?

I'm not super familiar with raw nand handling, potentially they might help, if you are still able to get to a console prompt with access to the dump files. If they're raw binaries, you might be able to restore the NAND devices using the "nandwrite" command or "dd" (whatever you have access to).

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: MathWizard on September 11, 2021, 05:09:46 pm
Ok why was I thinking this was safe to do ?? I wanted to test a transformer, to find the output voltages. So I put my sdg2042 on 20Vpp, on default HiZ , and hooked it directly to the transformer primary, without using any DC blocking, or a resistor to limit current.

I've done it a few times, it still seems to work fine, but what kind of current was I putting through the low winding resistance of the trans ??? I don't want to operate it on the edge or put it into some hard current limiting.......is that what I was doing ? What current does the highZ output really do when near shorted?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: mawyatt on September 11, 2021, 05:37:04 pm
If you are working where you need more current or voltage try using an external Amp like the Juntek DPA-1698 or DPA-2698. For even higher levels, we designed a couple external amps for HV outputs ~(+-90V) and Higher Currents, although we haven't built the High Current version yet (no immediate need although the PCBs have been designed and fabricated and parts are here), the HV version has been built and used.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/awg-buffer-amp/msg3368650/#msg3368650 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/awg-buffer-amp/msg3368650/#msg3368650)

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/cheap-diy-high-powervoltage-awg-buffer-amp/msg3449784/#msg3449784 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/cheap-diy-high-powervoltage-awg-buffer-amp/msg3449784/#msg3449784)

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hv-buffer-amp-for-awg/msg3623953/#msg3623953 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hv-buffer-amp-for-awg/msg3623953/#msg3623953)



Best,
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bdunham7 on September 11, 2021, 06:28:52 pm
I've done it a few times, it still seems to work fine, but what kind of current was I putting through the low winding resistance of the trans ??? I don't want to operate it on the edge or put it into some hard current limiting.......is that what I was doing ? What current does the highZ output really do when near shorted?

It doesn't matter what the output impedance 'setting' is, it just has a 50 ohm impedance.  So 20Vp-p through a 50 ohm resistor is what you get.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: 2N3055 on September 11, 2021, 07:07:33 pm
I've done it a few times, it still seems to work fine, but what kind of current was I putting through the low winding resistance of the trans ??? I don't want to operate it on the edge or put it into some hard current limiting.......is that what I was doing ? What current does the highZ output really do when near shorted?

It doesn't matter what the output impedance 'setting' is, it just has a 50 ohm impedance.  So 20Vp-p through a 50 ohm resistor is what you get.


This..

But thing to worry is not that, but fact that highly inductive load on the generator output can create kickback voltages and currents high enough to maybe damage output of the generator.. So depending on trafo used a snubber and/or clamp might be in order. Not to mention what happens when you get something in resonance and voltage starts climbing through the roof...

So safe practice would be to start with smaller amplitude and check with a scope how output from gen/input to the trafo looks like.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on September 11, 2021, 08:33:34 pm
Yes, I actually use nandtest without any option   |O

Now my nanddump files can help me?
Check your PM's.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bdunham7 on December 18, 2021, 10:35:05 pm
I apologize if this issue has been raised, and perhaps dealt with, but I could find no specific mention of it elsewhere.

The subject came up about 'frequency coherence', meaning if you selected, for example, 10Hz pulse on CH1 and 10MHz sine on CH2, would the CH2 output frequency be an exact 106 multiple of CH1.  So I had to try it, of course.

The answer, to my surprise, was 'maybe'.  When I first selected the two and set up a scope triggering on the 10Hz pulse, they were coherent and had no drift.  Fiddling with the higher frequency, I was able to get it to show some drift at 10.000010 Hz at certain times, and then once at exactly 10MHz.  I can't reliably replicate those, so I'll move on for now.  What I eventually found is that if I pressed the MOD button, even with 0% AM modulation, the 10MHz signal would start to drift relative to the 10Hz signal, by about 1/3 cycles per second or 0.3ppm.  Hmmm.

I decided to check the frequencies against the clock and I discovered that in the normal startup configuration, a 10MHz selected output was ~0.3ppm low compared to the 10MHz clock.  The 10Hz pulse was also off by the same amount, so that the two outputs were synced, but the clock drifted relative to them or vice-versa.  An external clock made no difference.  However, when I press the MOD button, again with no modulation, the 10MHz CH2 output and the clock would then coincide perfectly, but would drift 0.3ppm relative to the pulse output. 

I recalibrated the SDG2042X clock to my OXCO in my counter and it only took a slight correction, less than 1ppm.  Th original DAC code was 18022 and I ended up with 17865.  I tried different DAC codes from 1 to 20,000 and while it changed the clock frequency, it made no difference to the observed behavior.  So this behaviour seems to be baked in.

Can anyone confirm that this is normal?  Any ideas why it is set up this way?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: nctnico on December 19, 2021, 07:14:57 pm
I can give it a try somewhere in the next couple of days.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bicycleguy on December 19, 2021, 09:09:48 pm
...
I can't reliably replicate those, so I'll move on for now.  ...   Can anyone confirm that this is normal?
Normal for SDGxxxxxx for last ~ 6 years.  Stems from the lack of displaying the actual precision.  See Johny B Good summary below a few quotes.  Any time you touch the rotary knob the digits stored but not displayed are in doubt.  The only way to be sure is to punch in the frequency on the keypad to the desired resolution using the keypad.  I can't find my notes but I think 10,000,000.01 can be shown to be different than 10,000,000.02 but the display only shows 10,000,000 after you input.  This easily shows up on an oscilloscope comparing output to an OCXO.
Any ideas why it is set up this way?
To confound and frustrate the user to no end, especially when trying to debug a home grown GPSD OCXO.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bdunham7 on December 19, 2021, 09:13:09 pm
Normal for SDGxxxxxx for last ~ 6 years.  Stems from the lack of displaying the actual precision.

Perhaps that happens in some cases, but in this case I can enter 1-0-MHz with the keypad and my clock and output will be off 0.3ppm, but if I press MOD, they align--but the slower 10Hz pulse that I got by pressing 1-0-Hz will not.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Hexley on December 19, 2021, 11:47:21 pm
I can reproduce this with an SDG1032X.: confirmed stable phase of 10 MHz sine and 10 Hz pulse with MOD turned off, then a steady phase shift between those two signals with MOD set to AM 0%.

Another interesting test: Change channel 2 to 100 Hz. Change the modulation from channel 1 to channel 2. Set the modulation to AM 50%, 1 Hz. Trigger the scope on channel 2, and observe two things: (1) the 10 MHz channel appears to jump from one phase offset to the next to the next, with 15 steps before it covers 360 degrees, and (2) those discrete phase offsets have a small 1 Hz phase modulation of their own. The attached photo shows both phenomena.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: nctnico on December 21, 2021, 07:18:38 pm
I apologize if this issue has been raised, and perhaps dealt with, but I could find no specific mention of it elsewhere.

The subject came up about 'frequency coherence', meaning if you selected, for example, 10Hz pulse on CH1 and 10MHz sine on CH2, would the CH2 output frequency be an exact 106 multiple of CH1.  So I had to try it, of course.

The answer, to my surprise, was 'maybe'.  When I first selected the two and set up a scope triggering on the 10Hz pulse, they were coherent and had no drift.  Fiddling with the higher frequency, I was able to get it to show some drift at 10.000010 Hz at certain times, and then once at exactly 10MHz.  I can't reliably replicate those, so I'll move on for now.  What I eventually found is that if I pressed the MOD button, even with 0% AM modulation, the 10MHz signal would start to drift relative to the 10Hz signal, by about 1/3 cycles per second or 0.3ppm.  Hmmm.

I decided to check the frequencies against the clock and I discovered that in the normal startup configuration, a 10MHz selected output was ~0.3ppm low compared to the 10MHz clock.  The 10Hz pulse was also off by the same amount, so that the two outputs were synced, but the clock drifted relative to them or vice-versa.  An external clock made no difference.  However, when I press the MOD button, again with no modulation, the 10MHz CH2 output and the clock would then coincide perfectly, but would drift 0.3ppm relative to the pulse output. 

I recalibrated the SDG2042X clock to my OXCO in my counter and it only took a slight correction, less than 1ppm.  Th original DAC code was 18022 and I ended up with 17865.  I tried different DAC codes from 1 to 20,000 and while it changed the clock frequency, it made no difference to the observed behavior.  So this behaviour seems to be baked in.

Can anyone confirm that this is normal?  Any ideas why it is set up this way?
Today I have done test at a customer who has a SDG2024X and a Cesium clock. I compared the Cesium clock output and a 10MHz output from the SDG2024X (which using the Cesium clock as a reference) using an oscilloscope but these are locked together just fine. A difference of .3ppm would show up as a continuously moving signal on an oscilloscope. I'm not sure what is happening exactly in your SDG2024X; maybe the amplitude you are feeding into the external input is too low, the OCXO has a problem or your SDG2024X is faulty. The SDG2024X I used runs firmware version 2.01.01.23R8
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bdunham7 on December 21, 2021, 08:06:19 pm
Today I have done test at a customer who has a SDG2024X and a Cesium clock. I compared the Cesium clock output and a 10MHz output from the SDG2024X (which using the Cesium clock as a reference) using an oscilloscope but these are locked together just fine. A difference of .3ppm would show up as a continuously moving signal on an oscilloscope. I'm not sure what is happening exactly in your SDG2024X; maybe the amplitude you are feeding into the external input is too low, the OCXO has a problem or your SDG2024X is faulty. The SDG2024X I used runs firmware version 2.01.01.23R8

Thanks for checking. So, Cs clock connected to clock input of SDG2042X, external clock selected, oscilloscope monitors the Cs clock signal and the 10MHz selected out and they are perfectly synced.   Hmmmmm.  I have version 2.01.01.35R3B2, which unlike the earlier version in yours will not revert to the internal clock if the external clock signal is inadequate.  And I still have the exact same issue with both the internal and external clock.  Maybe when I get a chance I'll roll back the firmware.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Blue on December 22, 2021, 08:12:35 am
I run 2.01.01.35R3B3.
The older ones have a problem with Labview.

Ask Tautech for an update. Perhaps there is even a newer one.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: blurpy on January 09, 2022, 12:57:31 pm
I'm going to build the Elenco AMFM108CK radio kit, and in the manual we can see several figures like this:

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=1374488;image)

There is a capacitor between the function generator and the DUT.
So guess this is to block DC entering the generator when sending a signal into the middle of a circuit. Is this common, and a good way to protect the generator?

Full manual available here: https://www.elenco.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/AMFM-108CK_low-res-2.pdf (https://www.elenco.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/AMFM-108CK_low-res-2.pdf)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: McBryce on January 09, 2022, 05:35:32 pm
I'm going to build the Elenco AMFM108CK radio kit, and in the manual we can see several figures like this:

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=1374488;image)

There is a capacitor between the function generator and the DUT.
So guess this is to block DC entering the generator when sending a signal into the middle of a circuit. Is this common, and a good way to protect the generator?

Full manual available here: https://www.elenco.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/AMFM-108CK_low-res-2.pdf (https://www.elenco.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/AMFM-108CK_low-res-2.pdf)

I think they just want show "best practice". As they don't know what sig-gen you are using or the quality thereof, they just want to ensure that you are not injecting DC into the circuit. If you are using a high-end sig-gen, where you are sure that the signal has no DC component you could leave the capacitor out.

McBryce.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Performa01 on January 09, 2022, 06:54:37 pm
If you are using a high-end sig-gen, where you are sure that the signal has no DC component you could leave the capacitor out.
Signal-, Function- and Arbitrary Wave- Generators in general have DC-coupled 50 ohms outputs. High-end devices might have optical ports on top of that or exclusively.
Audio generators on the other hand, especially older ones, usually have 600 ohms outputs, still DC coupled, but often without the option to add an arbitrary DC offset.

That does not mean that some special (mostly DIY) signal sources with AC coupling cannot exist, but these are certainly not "high end".

So, having a DC blocking capacitor between generator output and circuit does two things:
If fiddling with your own circuit, you might still use the DC offset feature of an AWG like the SDG2042X as a variable, remote controlable bias voltage for an amplifier stage. Especially handy for class B and C amplifiers, like they are common in narrowband HF applications.

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Johnny B Good on January 10, 2022, 12:43:51 am
 Attaching a 'scope probe to any part of an amplifier circuit is usually no problem (aside from the possibility of connecting to high voltage points in valved (tubed) kit), so the normal practice is to feed your test signal into its input socket where there are normally no pesky dc bias voltages to ruin your day.

 For the really paranoid (those of us all too familiar with "Sod's Law"), you might take the precaution of testing for the presence of day ruining dc voltages on the input before connecting your precious signal generator. :) You would then work backwards with the 'scope probe to look for the missing or an undistorted test signal rather than try working forwards injecting generator test signals.

 If you feel the need to work forwards with a test signal, that only makes sense if you're familiar with the (in this example) amplifier circuit and the various dc bias voltages you expect to encounter. For audio work in relatively lo-Z BJT based amplifier designs as per the example shown, that 1nF coupling cap seems a little on the low side imo. It seems to me that a 1uF cap with a 1K ESD limiting resistor in series would be a better choice here.

 In short, this working forward with a test signal requires some familiarity (experience, or else an actual circuit diagram to hand) of what you're working on to reduce the risk of damage to the signal generator and/or amplifier.

 Injecting test signals into a circuit should be the last resort to tracking down a fault. A better strategy would be to probe with a voltmeter and verify that the bias voltages are close to where they should be before blindly diving in with a sig generator. As with using a 'scope probe, you're merely measuring voltages rather than introducing a disturbing influence on the circuit's operation.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: blurpy on January 10, 2022, 06:20:38 pm
Thanks for the feedback!

The reason for injecting a signal in this case is because the radio kit has very defined and somewhat isolated sections, like you can see from the image. First and second IF amplifier, AM detector, audio amplifier and several more. The sections are built starting at the "end", so you make the audio amplifier first. Need to inject a regular audio signal into that to test it. Then the AM detector. Need to inject some signal to test that as well, and so on. Finishing with the antenna, where you can finally test the complete circuit.

Looking forward to playing with modulation for a realistic use case on the SDG2042X. :)

Any best practice on how to hook onto a pcb with a cap on the generator probe? Looks a bit awkward.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Johnny B Good on January 11, 2022, 03:18:34 am
@blurpy

 I was answering from a general usage case point of view, not having followed the link to the construction manual beforehand, hence my remark over the what seemed an unusually low capacitor value. When I did look at that instruction manual a day later, I realised that in this case, the choice had been entirely reasonable for the particular test in hand. However, for general fault finding on kit you're not actually constructing, the advice to use a larger cap value with a current limiting resistor (1 to 10K being a good starting value) still stands.

 Regarding probing around with a test signal, I'd be inclined to use a 'scope probe for this. You generally only need micro to milli volts of test signal anyway in most cases with audio and IF or RF stages so even if you have to set the probe's attenuation factor to x10 to inject vhf test signals, this will still prove effective, after all, it's not as if you don't have several volts peak to peak's worth of test signal available from that SDG2042X to play with.  :)

 The only issue being the need to connect the ground fly lead to a grounding point as close to the injection point as is conveniently practicable. If required, you can even use the grounding spring attachment to minimise leakage to other parts of the circuit to minimise any confusing results that could arise. However, not bothering with a ground clip connection and just applying the probe tip to the injection point will usually suffice in most cases. You can save resorting to the ground wire clip or probe spring attachment to help reduce confusion between two or more test points that may be giving similar responses.

 If you're working with audio frequencies, you can just use a cheap BNC to croc clip ended cable and attach a cap with a small series resistor onto the hot end croc clip as a makeshift probe and connect the other croc clip to the DUT's ground.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: jhormilla on January 25, 2022, 05:08:38 am
Hi all, I'm considering buying a SDG2042X any way of getting a copy of 17R5? Any help would be appreciated.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on January 25, 2022, 09:55:05 am
Hi all, I'm considering buying a SDG2042X any way of getting a copy of 17R5? Any help would be appreciated.
Welcome to the forum.

All the old FW versions are available here:
https://int.siglent.com/download/firmwares/?ProId=5
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: rf-loop on January 26, 2022, 04:20:44 am
Hi all, I'm considering buying a SDG2042X any way of getting a copy of 17R5? Any help would be appreciated.
Welcome to the forum.

All the old FW versions are available here:
https://int.siglent.com/download/firmwares/?ProId=5



Quote
source version  object version
2.01.01.35R3B1 2.01.01.35R3B2 Tested.
2.01.01.23R8 2.01.01.35R3B1 Tested.
2.01.01.23R7 2.01.01.35R3B1 Tested.
2.01.01.23R7 2.01.01.23R8 Tested.
2.01.01.23R5 2.01.01.23R8 Tested.
2.01.01.23R3 2.01.01.23R8 Tested.
2.01.01.22R5 2.01.01.23R8 Tested.
2.01.01.21R2 2.01.01.23R8 Tested.
2.01.01.17R5 2.01.01.23R8 Tested.
2.01.01.16R2 2.01.01.23R8 Not compatible. Please update to 2.01.01.17R5 at first
2.01.01.15R2 2.01.01.23R8 Not compatible. Please update to 2.01.01.17R5 at first
2.01.01.12R1 2.01.01.23R8 Not compatible. Please update to 2.01.01.17R5 at first

Available in Siglent web side 2.01.01.23R3 is most old.


I believe  it is so that if someone have SDG with version what is below 2.01.01.17R5 then he need first update to 2.01.01.17R5
2.01.01.16R2 
2.01.01.15R2 
2.01.01.12R1

And as we know, after  2.01.01.17R5 or later then can not anymore go back to older versions than 2.01.01.17R5.

I have some of these old versions. Btw, these older versions are not packaged to .ZIP, they are .RAR
(I will send  I have sent 2.01.01.17R5 to @tautech )
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: jhormilla on January 26, 2022, 04:25:14 am
Hi all, I'm considering buying a SDG2042X any way of getting a copy of 17R5? Any help would be appreciated.
Welcome to the forum.

All the old FW versions are available here:
https://int.siglent.com/download/firmwares/?ProId=5


Thank you


Quote
source version  object version
2.01.01.35R3B1 2.01.01.35R3B2 Tested.
2.01.01.23R8 2.01.01.35R3B1 Tested.
2.01.01.23R7 2.01.01.35R3B1 Tested.
2.01.01.23R7 2.01.01.23R8 Tested.
2.01.01.23R5 2.01.01.23R8 Tested.
2.01.01.23R3 2.01.01.23R8 Tested.
2.01.01.22R5 2.01.01.23R8 Tested.
2.01.01.21R2 2.01.01.23R8 Tested.
2.01.01.17R5 2.01.01.23R8 Tested.
2.01.01.16R2 2.01.01.23R8 Not compatible. Please update to 2.01.01.17R5 at first
2.01.01.15R2 2.01.01.23R8 Not compatible. Please update to 2.01.01.17R5 at first
2.01.01.12R1 2.01.01.23R8 Not compatible. Please update to 2.01.01.17R5 at first

Available in Siglent web side 2.01.01.23R3 is most old.


I believe  it is so that if someone have SDG with version what is below 2.01.01.17R5 then he need first update to 2.01.01.17R5
2.01.01.16R2 
2.01.01.15R2 
2.01.01.12R1

And as we know, after  2.01.01.17R5 or later then can not anymore go back to older versions than 2.01.01.17R5.

I have these old versions. Btw, these older versions are not packaged to .ZIP, they are .RAR
(I will send 2.01.01.17R5 to @tautech )
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on January 26, 2022, 06:27:43 am
Hi all, I'm considering buying a SDG2042X any way of getting a copy of 17R5? Any help would be appreciated.
PM sent.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: ebastler on January 26, 2022, 07:34:17 am
Hi all, I'm considering buying a SDG2042X any way of getting a copy of 17R5? Any help would be appreciated.

Just wondering -- why is that firmware version required? Are you buying an old SDG2042X with very old firmware on board, so you need 17R5 as an interim step to get to the current firmware?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: RoadRunner on January 29, 2022, 12:15:54 am
Hallo,

I own a SDG2042X from quite a few years, but some how today is the first time I needed to AM modulate with an external Signal. I just can't get it work. I have plugged External signal to Aux BNC with level of 12Vpp. But AM, FM or another modulation that may use analog external modulation signal does not work.

If i try to use FSK or ASK external modulation works, I suppose as for these modulation external modulation signal need to be a digital input?
But AM, FM, PWM modulation does not work with external modulation, I guess because they will an analog input?

Can anyone with SDG2000X please take your time for me and verify if external modulation work for AM or FM for them?
I have firmware version 2.01.01.35R3B2

Regards


Here is the solution

Found the issue to be U41 which is 3.0 Regulator AF7230M to be faulty. U41 supply 3.0V to external modulation ADC. Regulator has been replaced with alternative and issue is solved.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Caliaxy on January 29, 2022, 12:51:27 am
I own a SDG2042X from quite a few years, but some how today is the first time I needed to AM modulate with an external Signal. I just can't get it work. I have plugged External signal to Aux BNC with level of 12Vpp.

Have you tried modulating with a lower amplitude? According to the manual, an external modulation of +/-6Vpp corresponds to a depth of modulation of 100% (the maximum 120%).
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: RoadRunner on January 29, 2022, 09:06:07 am
I own a SDG2042X from quite a few years, but some how today is the first time I needed to AM modulate with an external Signal. I just can't get it work. I have plugged External signal to Aux BNC with level of 12Vpp.

Have you tried modulating with a lower amplitude? According to the manual, an external modulation of +/-6Vpp corresponds to a depth of modulation of 100% (the maximum 120%).

Thank you for pointing out, I think i misunderstood, but from datasheet "The output amplitude will be the maximum when the modulating signal is +6V and the minimum when the modulating signal is -6V" does this mean 6Vpp or 12Vpp?

I had started initially with really low voltage around 2Vpp (+1V to -1V) it didn't work, once manual was read then i set voltage to 12Vpp (+6v to -6V) but it still didn't work.

All the digital modulation works always though.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: thinkfat on January 29, 2022, 09:49:27 am
+6V to -6V is 12Vpp, but also specifies that the expected modulation signal must not have DC offset. Thats something else to check. 0V - 12V would also be 12Vpp but violate the given constraint.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: rf-loop on January 29, 2022, 12:47:27 pm
+6V to -6V is 12Vpp, but also specifies that the expected modulation signal must not have DC offset. Thats something else to check. 0V - 12V would also be 12Vpp but violate the given constraint.

I can not now test using SDG2kX.
But this is how it is with SDS1kX and for Ext modulation specs are same if look both datasheets.

External modulation is DC coupled. Signal nominal/typical range is +6V to -6V and input impedance is 10k
These are typical values. (limits are min 11Vpp and max 13Vpp for full 100% mod depth)
Maximum modulation frequency is 50kHz
Modulation input is Aux In/Out BNC in rear panel,  later I use ExtMod name for it.




Modulated signal output voltage level is roughly 0 when ExtMod input is -6V
Modulated signal output voltage level is "full" when ExtMod input is +6V
When signal to ExtMod input is 0V  modulated signal level is half way from max.

If it works or not it can test just using suitable DC and oscilloscope.
SDG1000X: (apparently the SDG2000X works in the same way in this particular case - least I believe)

Very first set SDG for factory defaults.
Set SDG output for Hi-Z and connect it to iscilloscope 1Mohm input.
Set SDG for example 1MHz sinewave 1Vpp
Turn modulation ON, Type AM and Source External.



Adjust ExtMod DC voltage to 0V (BNC center to 0V or just do not connect anything to ExtMod so its level is around 0V)
Oscilloscope should now display around 1Vpp signal.

Next
Adjust ExtMod DC voltage to +6.0V  (BNC center to +6V  BNC GND is GND aka 0)
Now oscilloscope should display around 2Vpp signal.  (with 3V around 1.5pp)

Adjust ExtMod DC voltage to -6.0V  (BNC center to -6V  BNC GND is GND aka 0)
Now oscilloscope should display around 0Vpp signal. (with -3V around 0.5V)

Most simple  "go/no go" style test can do using just onew battery.

Also of course SDG other output can use as adjustable voltage source also for playing this...just connect it using coaxial to rear panel ExtMod only remember adjust this channel for HiZ Load (or 10kohm load) because ExtMod impedance is 10k. If adjust it for HiZ level error is irrelevant in this case.

If you have now example -6V to +6V 1kHz sinewave signal you have then 1MHz signal AM modulated with 1kHz and modulation depth 100%.

Note that ExtMod input true levels/mod depths may have some differeences between individual units and manufacturing lots.

If it do not at all works like this, then there is some problem on your cables or other things OR  SDG  ExtMod is broken.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: RoadRunner on January 29, 2022, 06:01:35 pm
Just tried one more time. Reset everything setup once again. All digital modulations works so cable and setup works, but no analog modulation works regardless of input or level.

It would be really great help if anyone could try with instrument with current firmware.

Regards
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: RoadRunner on January 29, 2022, 06:42:29 pm
Found the issue to be U41 which is 3.0 Regulator AF7230M to be faulty. U41 supply 3.0V to external modulation ADC. Regulator has been replaced with alternative and issue is solved.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on January 29, 2022, 06:56:09 pm
Found the issue to be U41 which is 3.0 Regulator AF7230M to be faulty. U41 supply 3.0V to external modulation ADC. Regulator has been replaced with alternative and issue is solved.
Wow, good detective work.  :-+

Would you mind going back to your first post and adding: Solved, it was a HW fault.

Do you have any idea why U41 may have failed ?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: RoadRunner on January 29, 2022, 07:11:07 pm
Found the issue to be U41 which is 3.0 Regulator AF7230M to be faulty. U41 supply 3.0V to external modulation ADC. Regulator has been replaced with alternative and issue is solved.
Wow, good detective work.  :-+

Would you mind going back to your first post and adding: Solved, it was a HW fault.

Do you have any idea why U41 may have failed ?

I really have no idea, I have been looking for quit some time. Scratching my head, is it a software issue or hardware issue.

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on January 29, 2022, 07:19:01 pm
Found the issue to be U41 which is 3.0 Regulator AF7230M to be faulty. U41 supply 3.0V to external modulation ADC. Regulator has been replaced with alternative and issue is solved.
Wow, good detective work.  :-+

Would you mind going back to your first post and adding: Solved, it was a HW fault.

Do you have any idea why U41 may have failed ?

I really have no idea, I have been looking for quit some time. Scratching my head, is it a software issue or hardware issue ?
Faults in these are pretty rare other than output stage damage from reverse voltages so it would seem your U41 failure is very unusual.
I've never had one apart but the more info you can give us can maybe help others that have a similar problem.
Even some pictures and external tests of U41 showing it faulty would be great to have so to help anyone else.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: RoadRunner on January 29, 2022, 07:21:57 pm
I tried to follow modulation signal path through relay,  than into ADC found that U41 not generating 3.0 needed. I removed U41 and first supplied power with my power supply,  only consumed 1mA and everything just worked.

Somewhat strange is that marking suggest with part is AF7230M  also matches in voltage and function being regulator. but AF7230M  datasheet shows input and output pins swapped.

Input on U41 is around 6.4V with that there are not many regulators in the market that are in same pinout and accept >6V at input.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: RoadRunner on January 29, 2022, 07:42:19 pm
I would highly appreciate, If anyone could suggest a regulator with 3.0V out 100mA >6V Vin with SOT-23-3 package and pin 1 being input ,2 output and 3 GND.
I have tried looking around found none that meets all expectation. AP7313 meets all but not max input voltage.

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: jeraymond on February 09, 2022, 12:00:28 am
Anyone come across an issue where the frequency drifts when burst is enabled?

I have my SDG2042X connected to an external 10MHz reference. I set a 10 MHz sine wave on CH1 and enabled the output. Feeding both the reference and SDG CH1 output to my oscilloscope I see the signal phases are stable relative to each other. Next, I switch to CH2 and enable burst (output not yet enabled on CH2). On the oscilloscope I see CH1 now drifting from the input reference. The CH1 keeps drifting until I disable burst on CH2 and toggle the output of CH1 on/off (or change freq on CH1).

I'm running the latest firmware I see v 2.01.01.35R3B2.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Hexley on February 09, 2022, 01:52:38 am
Anyone come across an issue where the frequency drifts when burst is enabled?
That behavior can be reproduced on an SDG1000X box. Drift starts when the other channel's burst is engaged, just as you reported.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: hpw on February 09, 2022, 08:51:52 am
Anyone come across an issue where the frequency drifts when burst is enabled?

I have my SDG2042X connected to an external 10MHz reference. I set a 10 MHz sine wave on CH1 and enabled the output. Feeding both the reference and SDG CH1 output to my oscilloscope I see the signal phases are stable relative to each other. Next, I switch to CH2 and enable burst (output not yet enabled on CH2). On the oscilloscope I see CH1 now drifting from the input reference. The CH1 keeps drifting until I disable burst on CH2 and toggle the output of CH1 on/off (or change freq on CH1).

I'm running the latest firmware I see v 2.01.01.35R3B2.

I looks like that the burst freq. alters the coherent behavior against the reference. May check whether using ARB it gets any better, while IMHO to control the coherent behavior.

I am waiting on Siglent now about one year to fix the square wave & low deviation FM/PM modulation bug....

so far as FPGA gets on the limit:

a) offered to send back for refund
b) trial FW so only one channel possible

from the face looser, nothing happens so far as  :-- :-- :--  :palm:
 
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: TurboTom on February 09, 2022, 12:39:09 pm
Due to the similarities of Siglent's AWG series, I checked for the reported problems on my SDG6000X. And I guess nobody's surprised I found them... I posted the details in the '6000 thread (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg6000-series-awg_s/msg3996263/#msg3996263).
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: jeraymond on February 09, 2022, 08:27:01 pm
Due to the similarities of Siglent's AWG series, I checked for the reported problems on my SDG6000X. And I guess nobody's surprised I found them... I posted the details in the '6000 thread (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg6000-series-awg_s/msg3996263/#msg3996263).

Looking more closely, the signal actually drifts from the external reference even without enabling Burst on the second channel. The drift is much, much slower but still there. Do you see that too on your device?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: TurboTom on February 09, 2022, 08:57:39 pm
No, in case of the SDG6000X, the drift only seems to depend on the burst period, it doesn't change at all if burst mode is enabled or disabled. And as reported in the '6000 thread, I only found this effect if the AWG is configured in "Phase Locked Mode". So, regarding this issue, there appear to be some differences in the way these two instruments behave after all...
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: dorkshoei on February 10, 2022, 01:24:28 am
Is there a cheap soft storage case that the SDG2042X will fit into.   Cheap == $40 or less.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: nike75 on February 10, 2022, 07:16:57 am
I use this one

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32835074432.html?spm=a2g0o.9042311.0.0.27424c4dvjXYyp (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32835074432.html?spm=a2g0o.9042311.0.0.27424c4dvjXYyp)

produced for photo gears, but very usable for SDG2042X

I ordered 3 years ago and price was $25, now is much more, but may be found from other store.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: jeraymond on February 10, 2022, 01:52:58 pm
No, in case of the SDG6000X, the drift only seems to depend on the burst period, it doesn't change at all if burst mode is enabled or disabled. And as reported in the '6000 thread, I only found this effect if the AWG is configured in "Phase Locked Mode". So, regarding this issue, there appear to be some differences in the way these two instruments behave after all...

Change the Phase Mode to Independent also fixed the drift issue with Burst enabled on the second channel. Siglent has a App Note about it here: https://siglentna.com/USA_website_2014/FAQ/SDG/SmoothSDGOutputs_01172016.pdf

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: SignalArray on February 10, 2022, 03:36:24 pm

try this one from HD:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/RIDGID-22-in-Pro-Organizer-Black-221735/205440492 (https://www.homedepot.com/p/RIDGID-22-in-Pro-Organizer-Black-221735/205440492)

remove those bins and if needed modify inside of lid with dremel a little.  It should fit.

if not try next size:
https://www.homedepot.com/p/RIDGID-22-in-Pro-Tool-Box-Black-221733/205440481#overlay (https://www.homedepot.com/p/RIDGID-22-in-Pro-Tool-Box-Black-221733/205440481#overlay)

this one fits 2 instruments of similar size.(with foam)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: dorkshoei on February 10, 2022, 11:44:07 pm

try this one from HD:
"Is there a cheap soft storage case that the SDG2042X will fit into."

I use this one

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32835074432.html?spm=a2g0o.9042311.0.0.27424c4dvjXYyp (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32835074432.html?spm=a2g0o.9042311.0.0.27424c4dvjXYyp)
Thanks.  Right kind of material.  I'd prefer something without straps.   Yes I realize I can cut them off.

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: nike75 on February 11, 2022, 05:54:18 am
When I search for bag, my important point was fit and drop protection. Not so easy to find bag with right sizes if not designed exactly for this gear.
Actually materials is not so bad, this case are padded of all sizes with shockproof pads (it is still designed for photographic equipment)
I have photographic equipment, have branded bags, also bought Chinese - this is completely satisfactory for storing and carrying sensitive equipment.

Its disadvantages are:
- the back straps as well as the hand handle feel a little weaker and unreliable.
- the position of the hand handle is placed at one end and when carried in the hand slightly tilts the case.

As for the back straps - I sewed mine for the back so they wouldn't get in the way, but you can cut them.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: n3mmr on February 15, 2022, 12:50:43 pm
Is there a repository of downloadable arbitrary waveforms somewhere for this generator?

All I want for X-mas, or possibly my Easter Egg, is a set of waveforms to emulate/simulate UART rs232 or ttl  or so style character strings, at different baud rates.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on February 15, 2022, 01:07:19 pm
Is there a repository of downloadable arbitrary waveforms somewhere for this generator?
You might find something useful in this thread:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1025-matlab-programming-arb-waveform/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1025-matlab-programming-arb-waveform/)

Dunno if they work with the later X model arbs but they all I got.  :-[
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: n3mmr on February 16, 2022, 06:25:52 am
Is there a repository of downloadable arbitrary waveforms somewhere for this generator?
You might find something useful in this thread:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1025-matlab-programming-arb-waveform/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1025-matlab-programming-arb-waveform/)

Dunno if they work with the later X model arbs but they all I got.  :-[

I couldn't find any ready-made waveform descriptions, just files stating the uart properties for something to be done in Matlab. It might even just be serial interface descriptions for connecting the instrument control toolbox to a siglent generator.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on February 16, 2022, 07:03:13 am
Is there a repository of downloadable arbitrary waveforms somewhere for this generator?
You might find something useful in this thread:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1025-matlab-programming-arb-waveform/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1025-matlab-programming-arb-waveform/)

Dunno if they work with the later X model arbs but they all I got.  :-[

I couldn't find any ready-made waveform descriptions, just files stating the uart properties for something to be done in Matlab. It might even just be serial interface descriptions for connecting the instrument control toolbox to a siglent generator.
Nothing in the inbuilt waveforms that are of use ?
Have you experimented using EasyWaveX ?

I'll ask Siglent if they have anything novel they can share.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: SignalArray on February 16, 2022, 03:46:32 pm
will re-flashing to older version and then "converting " to SDG2122 (as per procedure outlined on this thread)  work for recently purchased SDG2042?

i'm planning to buy SDG2042.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Martin.M on February 16, 2022, 06:01:57 pm
I am the next one,
SDG2082X is on the way  :)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: dorkshoei on February 16, 2022, 07:00:04 pm
will re-flashing to older version and then "converting " to SDG2122 (as per procedure outlined on this thread)  work for recently purchased SDG2042?

i'm planning to buy SDG2042.

Read the hack thread.   This is from Feb 9.   Seven days ago.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg2042x-hack-door-closed/msg3996982/#msg3996982 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg2042x-hack-door-closed/msg3996982/#msg3996982)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on March 18, 2022, 05:20:45 pm
Is there a repository of downloadable arbitrary waveforms somewhere for this generator?
You might find something useful in this thread:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1025-matlab-programming-arb-waveform/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1025-matlab-programming-arb-waveform/)

Dunno if they work with the later X model arbs but they all I got.  :-[

I couldn't find any ready-made waveform descriptions, just files stating the uart properties for something to be done in Matlab. It might even just be serial interface descriptions for connecting the instrument control toolbox to a siglent generator.
Nothing in the inbuilt waveforms that are of use ?
Have you experimented using EasyWaveX ?

I'll ask Siglent if they have anything novel they can share.
Had these for a bit but sorry been too busy to fully test them.
CAN and I2C BIN files that you can import directly into 2ch SDG models.
NOTE, remove txt file extension required to upload here before uploading to SDG.

Another project for the adventurous; Hearts
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/a-valentine_s-day-activity-for-your-scope-and-function-generator/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/a-valentine_s-day-activity-for-your-scope-and-function-generator/)
Reply #4 has a doc file with the required AWG settings.

Further project; enter these settings into you SDG and save them then download the BIN files and post them here.
TIA
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: MorpTester on April 25, 2022, 07:10:00 am
Sorry in case this was discussed and I missed it - how to do a screenshot with the SDG2042X onto the front USB drive? There is nothing mentioned about it in the manual.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: ebastler on April 25, 2022, 11:34:12 am
Sorry in case this was discussed and I missed it - how to do a screenshot with the SDG2042X onto the front USB drive? There is nothing mentioned about it in the manual.

I am not aware of a direct "screenshot to USB" function; but a solution for "screenshot via SCPI" was mentioned in this thread a while ago: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/msg3577567/#msg3577567 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/msg3577567/#msg3577567).

Disclaimer: I have not tried this myself.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: MorpTester on April 25, 2022, 01:51:18 pm
Thanks.

Edit: The command in the next post does indeed work, but it's quite complicated to finally receive and store a valid graphics file. This screenshot has been taken measuring a GPS diciplined source, after performing the Timebase Calibration of the Siglent with that source.

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on April 25, 2022, 08:07:42 pm
Yes it's a bit annoying the lack of consistency across the Siglent websites  ::)
 https://siglentna.com/operating-tip/sdg-remote-scpi-command-to-request-a-screen-image-2/

SCPI command: SCDP
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Kanbus on May 01, 2022, 02:23:17 pm
Hi
I have for hours tried upgrading the bandwith on my sdg2042x to no avail since the info seems scattered about and there is no guide for the sdg2042x

I take from one post that the telnet route dont work anymore and you could use the pyton script also used for the scopes.

I used this to unlock my sds1104x-e but i'm really confused now.

what do you use for scope id and how to get it?
should you type the model number since its not one of the listed ones?
which one of the keys in the script is for the 120Mhz bandwith?


Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: blurpy on May 01, 2022, 03:50:13 pm
Hi
I have for hours tried upgrading the bandwith on my sdg2042x to no avail since the info seems scattered about and there is no guide for the sdg2042x
There is a link to the last page of the hack thread just a few posts up, which describes the process step by step.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Kanbus on May 01, 2022, 08:19:02 pm
Thanks. next problem is it will not show the usb stick, i beeps and says usb stick removed when removing it thoug - i've tried several. It worked fine earlier.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Kanbus on May 01, 2022, 08:30:44 pm
Yay. now it says over voltage when booting :-BROKE

Is it really possible to destroy it by just doing a firmware update? shit I hate this thing
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: BmaxTom on May 02, 2022, 02:22:23 pm
You don't need a firmware downgrade or a USB stick!

Use this -> https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg2042x-hack-door-closed/msg4018144/#msg4018144 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg2042x-hack-door-closed/msg4018144/#msg4018144)

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Kanbus on May 02, 2022, 04:31:18 pm
No I need a firmware update wich I cant do now because won't reconize any USB disc
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tv84 on May 02, 2022, 04:48:59 pm
Try different sticks formatted in Linux. Good luck.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Kanbus on May 02, 2022, 07:41:41 pm
No way in hell I'm installing linux on any computer. nothing against linux, but enough things has broken down this weekend. Its not just the AWG now. My Windows computer broke while trying to update to win 10. Why was i updating you ask? So i could install NI-MAX to control the AWG.
The weekend has brought nothing but disappointments. And the apartment smells like sewer again.

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Kanbus on May 03, 2022, 06:41:58 pm
Sorry to all Siglent users. The AWG is working fine, which is not the case for three of my USB-sticks. I bought a new one and it recognized it. Then i updated the firmware without a problem. I've done the updates as described in the usermanual, so what makes the USB-sticks go bad I have no idea.

Telnet can't connect though, it says connection refused.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Kanbus on May 04, 2022, 09:04:36 pm
It worked out today. Thanks for the free bandwith :-+

Some things for others to try if telnet connection fails.
Get both the computer and AWG connected via cable. I tried with my computer over WIFI, but failed.
I couldn't connect via putty, so I used the telnet client in windows10 and port 5024.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread (error queue)
Post by: pigrew on May 04, 2022, 11:03:26 pm
I'm being confused about instrument control of my SDG2042X.

I found that the SDG implements an (undocumented) error queue, readable with "SYSTem:ERRor?".

If I send the (documented) command "C1:OUTP LOAD,50", the error queue contains the error '-108,"Parameter not allowed"'. The load impedance is changed.

Is there a way to determine what caused the parameter error? Or is it my mistake to check for errors since checking for errors is undocumented?

(firmware 2.01.01.35R3B2)

ADDED LATER: Is there a listing of all the undocumented commands somewhere?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: mjgillen on May 19, 2022, 02:20:06 am
Got my new toy today the Siglent SDG2042X

Software version 2.10.01.35R3B2

Hardware version 02-02-00-40-00

I got this to align an old 1946 AM tube radio. Now I need to figure out how to use it, which wave to use, parameters, etc. UI is kind of clunky. It's smaller than I thought it would be. Should be fun!

Michael
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: mjgillen on May 19, 2022, 09:18:00 pm
The "telnet upgrade" was easy peasy. Thank you!
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Tjuurko on July 08, 2022, 05:55:37 am
It was decided to check the veracity of the 16-bit exit.
A special test signal was created:
[attachurl=1]

In the "EasyWaveX ver. 1.1.0.13" he looks like this:
[attachimg=2]

This test signal was loaded in the SDG2042X, the SDM3065X (DCV, Range: Auto, Aperture: 10PLC, Auto Zero: Off, Rel: Off). was connected to the generator.
A very large displacement of "0" at the ARB-signal was discovered. Pictures for "DC Offset 0.000 V" and ARB (Period: 500.000000 s, Amplitude: 20.000 Vpp, Offset: 0.000 Vdc, Phase: 0.0000°):

Channel 1
[attachimg=3]

Channel 2
[attachimg=4]

What is the reason for such a large displacement of "0"?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Tjuurko on July 14, 2022, 04:20:40 am
Continuation of experiments with "0" signal:
[attachurl=1]

There was a check of the dependence of the output voltage on the displayed amplitude.
[attachimg=2]

It is quite strange to observe such a large displacement for a 16-bit output.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: switchabl on July 14, 2022, 11:11:08 am
It is quite strange to observe such a large displacement for a 16-bit output.

Well, it is a function generator and not a precision DC voltage source. 16 bit is not about DC accuracy on an instrument like this, it is about spurious free dynamic range (SFDR), i.e. the spectral purity of the signal. You would usually verify this by looking at single/multi-tone signals on a spectrum analyzer.

DC accuracy doesn't even seem to be sepcified properly in the datasheet. There is a section labelled "DC Characteristics" but I believe that applies to the DC output mode specifically (± (1% + 2mV)). As a point of reference, on the higher-end Keysight 33500B/33600A series, offset error is "± (1% of Offset setting) ± (0.25% of amplitude in Vpp) ± (2 mV)", so zero offset at 20Vpp amplitude could be ±52mV.

As you vary the amplitude setting, the generator will switch between different output ranges (you can probably hear a relay click) and that will change the offset. E.g. if it would switch in a 10x attenuator at some point in the signal path, the (absolute) offset error contributed by any circuitry before the attenuator would be reduced by a factor of 10.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: nike75 on August 23, 2022, 08:04:34 am
As other forum members have said, i also found a phase difference between the two channels on my SDG2042X.
May be PCB layout of two cahnnels are not equalized or have another case but phase skew between channels on my gear is ~310ps.

I'm not sure if Siglent will ever make some kind of calibration menu in the software but a user option to set the phase both in degrees and absolute (seconds) doesn't seem complicated at all.

It would also be very useful because apart from fix the factory asymmetry, it can also be used to equalize different cable lengths as well as different type of cables with different propagation speeds.

For now, I have to make a BNC adapter with a length of about 40 mm to compensate the channel skew.

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on August 23, 2022, 09:23:23 am
As other forum members have said, i also found a phase difference between the two channels on my SDG2042X.
May be PCB layout of two cahnnels are not equalized or have another case but phase skew between channels on my gear is ~310ps.

I'm not sure if Siglent will ever make some kind of calibration menu in the software but a user option to set the phase both in degrees and absolute (seconds) doesn't seem complicated at all.

It would also be very useful because apart from fix the factory asymmetry, it can also be used to equalize different cable lengths as well as different type of cables with different propagation speeds.

For now, I have to make a BNC adapter with a length of about 40 mm to compensate the channel skew.
Yes it's a known issue however Siglent provided the tools to null any channel disparities in the original design.

Utility P2> Phase Mode used with Parameter> Phase can apply the adjustments to minimize any channel Skew when/if/as required.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Blue on August 23, 2022, 10:18:12 am
Hi Tautech,

A while ago (march 2021) you send me  :-+ an updated firmware 2.01.01.35RB3 to solve a labview connection problem.
Has there been newer firmwares that solves other problems? And why is Siglent still not showing that version on their website or shipping it in their newer produced instruments?

Cheers,

Nick
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on August 23, 2022, 10:38:05 am
Hi Tautech,

A while ago (march 2021) you send me  :-+ an updated firmware 2.01.01.35RB3 to solve a labview connection problem.
Has there been newer firmwares that solves other problems? And why is Siglent still not showing that version on their website or shipping it in their newer produced instruments?
Cheers,
Nick
V2.01.01.35R3B2 is still the current shipped version.
B3 I must have in emails from Siglent as it's not in our 2kX FW folder so I need find it for anyone that might need it.
TBH Nick I don't remember our messages so need to hunt them out to refresh these old brain cells.  :)
TTYL
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Blue on August 23, 2022, 11:43:46 am
I just forwarded your email back to you with your firmware.

Nick
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: ebastler on August 23, 2022, 11:52:47 am
A bit disappointing that the latest released firmware dates from 2019. Well, that must mean that the SDG2042X is now perfect, and has been for nearly three years...
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: luciof on August 23, 2022, 01:15:39 pm
Yes it's a known issue however Siglent provided the tools to null any channel disparities in the original design.

Utility P2> Phase Mode used with Parameter> Phase can apply the adjustments to minimize any channel Skew when/if/as required.

The phase adjustment between channels is not the same as skew compensation.

For example, the coupled outputs at 100 MHz show a phase shift of about -11.54 deg. (that's a 320 ps skew). At 50 MHz, phase shift is -6.44 deg (355 ps). The actual phase (which should ideally be 0) has changed, and the skew is [more or less] constant.

The generator outputs are connected to the scope via 1 m RG316 cables (delay checked: no change if swapped) and 50 ohm terminators.
In this quick test I didn't found significant differences changing "Utility p.2 | Phase Mode" between "Phase Locked" and "Independent".

Applying a -11.54 degree phase compensation (Utility | CH Copy Coupling | Phase Dev), the 100 MHz output is quite fully compensated (now the waveforms are in phase), but at 50 MHz the phase shift is about +5.11 degrees.

In conclusion, the actual phase between coupled channels is quite different from the value set in Utility, and it changes with frequency (tolerable at low frequency, too large at higher frequencies).
To make things right, there should be a skew compensation in addition to Phase Dev, so that when Phase Dev is set to 0 the coupled waveforms are actually in phase at whatever frequency.

Because of hardware limits, there would still be an error, albeit significantly less.

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: nike75 on August 23, 2022, 02:37:05 pm
I think that "Phase dev" value in "Utility|CH copy" and "params|phase(CH1 and CH2)" are lead to the same result. Just the three values are simply added together and as result provided target phase shift value.

Skew compensation represent as absolute time is another thing and from my point of view is good workaround. Can be easily recalculated to a phase angle depending on the selected frequency.

Maybe Tautech is talking about functionality that I not found in last official rev 35R3B2:
... Utility P2> Phase Mode used with Parameter> Phase can apply the adjustments to minimize any channel Skew when/if/as required....

In Utility I found only "Phase Locked" and "Independent" but this settings is not related to current case.

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Johnny B Good on August 23, 2022, 09:58:36 pm
A bit disappointing that the latest released firmware dates from 2019. Well, that must mean that the SDG2042X is now perfect, and has been for nearly three years...

 I can only assume your statement to be a well deserved biting criticism of the way Siglent have crippled the full potential and usability  of every model of AWG they've ever produced over the past 6 or 7 years with a kakamaimee UI that has never changed for the better since day one. >:(

 The UI is so execrable that my "Go To" signal generator still remains to this day my FeelTech FY6600-60M "toy" AWG which I had hoped would soon become relegated to that of an "emergency spare" safely stored away in my "emergency spares cupboard".

 I had envisioned that Siglent's AWG division would poach one of the skilled and experienced software engineers from the DSO division to remedy the shame of remaining second best to a cheapskate company like FeelTech but it seems my former optimism has been well and truly misplaced. :( >:( :palm:
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on August 23, 2022, 10:03:52 pm
A bit disappointing that the latest released firmware dates from 2019. Well, that must mean that the SDG2042X is now perfect, and has been for nearly three years...

 I can only assume your statement to be a well deserved biting criticism of the way Siglent have crippled the full potential and usability  of every model of AWG they've ever produced over the past 6 or 7 years with a kakamaimee UI that has never changed for the better since day one. >:(

 The UI is so execrable that my "Go To" signal generator still remains to this day my FeelTech FY6600-60M "toy" AWG which I had hoped would soon become relegated to that of an "emergency spare" safely stored away in my "emergency spares cupboard".

 I had envisioned that Siglent's AWG division would poach one of the skilled and experienced software engineers from the DSO division to remedy the shame of remaining second best to a cheapskate company like FeelTech but it seems my former optimism has been well and truly misplaced. :( >:( :palm:
::)
Do you really think a rewrite of the UI, GUI and the documentation of 4 model series comprising of 11 models is really going to happen ?
How might that impact on the existing owners of the 1000's of these units already in use ?

Please come back down to earth JBG.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Johnny B Good on August 23, 2022, 11:15:22 pm
A bit disappointing that the latest released firmware dates from 2019. Well, that must mean that the SDG2042X is now perfect, and has been for nearly three years...

 I can only assume your statement to be a well deserved biting criticism of the way Siglent have crippled the full potential and usability  of every model of AWG they've ever produced over the past 6 or 7 years with a kakamaimee UI that has never changed for the better since day one. >:(

 The UI is so execrable that my "Go To" signal generator still remains to this day my FeelTech FY6600-60M "toy" AWG which I had hoped would soon become relegated to that of an "emergency spare" safely stored away in my "emergency spares cupboard".

 I had envisioned that Siglent's AWG division would poach one of the skilled and experienced software engineers from the DSO division to remedy the shame of remaining second best to a cheapskate company like FeelTech but it seems my former optimism has been well and truly misplaced. :( >:( :palm:
::)
Do you really think a rewrite of the UI, GUI and the documentation of 4 model series comprising of 11 models is really going to happen ?

 I don't really see why not. After all, the GUI is largely common to all of the above with minor variations to cater for the features specific to each model and variants. However, if even your good self feels this exercise in restoring Siglent's self esteem is beyond their abilities, then I guess not. :(

How might that impact on the existing owners of the 1000's of these units already in use ?

 Rather positively I'd have thought. A rather welcome firmware update and a download of the latest user guide isn't an out of the ordinary exercise for any AWG owner, regardless of make or model.

Please come back down to earth JBG.

 Aw, must I?  :( After all, these AWGs have been waiting for a rewrite since before they were ever inflicted upon the unsuspecting hobbyist. What I can't understand is how Siglent seem content to remain in fourth place behind FeelTech despite the use of first class hardware. Their AWG division, imo, seem totally shameless in failing to put this glaring and crippling deficiency right.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: hpw on August 24, 2022, 07:24:39 am
Hi Tautech,

A while ago (march 2021) you send me  :-+ an updated firmware 2.01.01.35RB3 to solve a labview connection problem.
Has there been newer firmwares that solves other problems? And why is Siglent still not showing that version on their website or shipping it in their newer produced instruments?
Cheers,
Nick
V2.01.01.35R3B2 is still the current shipped version.
B3 I must have in emails from Siglent as it's not in our 2kX FW folder so I need find it for anyone that might need it.
TBH Nick I don't remember our messages so need to hunt them out to refresh these old brain cells.  :)
TTYL

As I reported about low FM deviation BUG, reported to support, claimed first not possible to fix while FPGA memory limitation so only on one channel for that matter, than about a year later did get SDG2000X_P37R2 to test, issue still exists but on lower deviations.
Compare FM/PM modulation with an 14 bit model as higher-end Keysight 33500B/33600A series.

Than asked what else has been fixed on SDG2000X_P37R2.... silents at it gets, but the revision shows since V2.01.01.35R3B2, they are working on it but even slower than slow without any priority.

Will once check on the PC Tool whether FM/PM modulation is possible and may whether this tool allows to add dither.

Good 16 bit DAC's gets signals down to -120dB even with proper dithering.

Remark: SDG2000X_P37R2 or any newer ask the support..

hp

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Bad_Driver on August 27, 2022, 09:44:56 am
Some UI house keeping would be nice. I’m now a owner of 5 (edit: 6!!) Siglent devices and there is not much in common in their user interfaces. And as shown in another thread every device software looks different on the PC and behaves different as well.
Come on Siglent, that can be done much better!

If someone can provide this last RB3 firmware I‘ll be very grateful  :clap: !
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Johnny B Good on August 27, 2022, 11:43:44 am
Some UI house keeping would be nice. I’m now a owner of 5 Siglent devices and there is not much in common in their user interfaces. And as shown in another thread every device software looks different on the PC and behaves different as well.
Come on Siglent, that can be done much better!

If someone can provide this last RB3 firmware I‘ll be very grateful  :clap: !

 Here's my copy, downloaded October last year.

Just remove the .txt off the end of the file name.

 Drat! I forgot about the 4000KB limit. >:(

 Try this link instead:

https://www.siglenteu.com/download/8700/ (https://www.siglenteu.com/download/8700/)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Blue on August 27, 2022, 01:52:38 pm
For those who want the B3 firmware get it now. Ik think the wetransfer link expires in 7 days.
If that happens, email me directly.

https://we.tl/t-Y5yZ7vQgFO

Nick
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Blue on August 27, 2022, 01:56:29 pm
I got that B3 firmware after emails with Tautech. He contacted Siglent after my bug report and they fixed it with this B3 firmware.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: ebastler on August 27, 2022, 03:50:58 pm
Try this link instead:
https://www.siglenteu.com/download/8700/ (https://www.siglenteu.com/download/8700/)

That's the B2 firmware, right? Your PDF history file also describes up to revision B2 only.  B3 had not been officially released by Siglent, I believe.

I got that B3 firmware after emails with Tautech. He contacted Siglent after my bug report and they fixed it with this B3 firmware.

I am lost in the long thread. Could you please remind me which bug B3 fixes? Thanks!
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Blue on August 27, 2022, 03:59:32 pm
Look at fig 1 in the bug report pdf: Labview error using Siglents own example. That error has been solved with the B3 firmware.
Additional error still exist in the Siglents own example and has been solved by changing something in the labview schematic - see fig 2.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Johnny B Good on August 27, 2022, 10:39:23 pm
Try this link instead:
https://www.siglenteu.com/download/8700/ (https://www.siglenteu.com/download/8700/)

That's the B2 firmware, right? Your PDF history file also describes up to revision B2 only.  B3 had not been officially released by Siglent, I believe.


 Sorry! My bad. :-[ I'm afraid I got the 3B mixed up with the B2 part of the version number.:palm:
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on September 18, 2022, 12:36:58 am
FYI
Ad Hoc Curve tracer project using SDS2000X Plus in XY mode and both channels from the SDG2042X AWG.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/fooln-around-with-dso-awg/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/fooln-around-with-dso-awg/)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bnz on September 30, 2022, 09:15:02 am
I measured the phase noise of the SDG2042X with the internal and an external reference. The plot with the external reference  (2. picture) looks like the plot with the internal reference at high frequencies, like the external OCXO below 2Hz and has strange spurs at multiples of 2.5Hz.

As the internal reference is 2.5Hz off the external reference, this looks like mixing products from the internal and external reference. Has my SDG2042X a problem, or is the insufficient offnes of the internal reference a "feature"?

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Blue on September 30, 2022, 10:23:00 am
Dear bnz,

Can you elaborate on how you measured the phase noise.

Thanks
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bnz on September 30, 2022, 10:37:27 am
Dear bnz,

Can you elaborate on how you measured the phase noise.

Thanks

With Andrew Holmes direct digital phase noise measurement setup, see
http://www.aholme.co.uk/PhaseNoise/Main.htm (http://www.aholme.co.uk/PhaseNoise/Main.htm)

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: hpw on September 30, 2022, 11:29:20 am
Interesting,

how long does a single PN measurement in min/hours required.

While did some minutes ago some Jitter measurements using a LeCroy SDA.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bnz on September 30, 2022, 12:18:17 pm
Interesting,

how long does a single PN measurement in min/hours required.

While did some minutes ago some Jitter measurements using a LeCroy SDA.

It depends  ;)
1.) on the FFT size, which is responsible for the resolution.
2.) on how low frequencies in the PN graph you need.
3.) how good your reference oscillators are compared to the DUT (i.e. how much averaging/crosscorrelation is needed to get your curve above the noice floor).

The above graphs were made  with FFT size 4k and took about half an hour measurent time to get sub Hz readings.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: hpw on September 30, 2022, 01:44:42 pm
Interesting,

how long does a single PN measurement in min/hours required.

While did some minutes ago some Jitter measurements using a LeCroy SDA.

It depends  ;)
1.) on the FFT size, which is responsible for the resolution.
2.) on how low frequencies in the PN graph you need.
3.) how good your reference oscillators are compared to the DUT (i.e. how much averaging/crosscorrelation is needed to get your curve above the noice floor).

The above graphs were made  with FFT size 4k and took about half an hour measurent time to get sub Hz readings.

Anyway, the figures are IMHO too low...

Please tell, used feq. on SDG as sine or square and levels (asymmetric symmetric). Also used OXCO brand & figures sine or square/levels.

Measure also the Square output of the siglent as this should have Jitter (plenty off) and also the used OXCO against the PN OXCO.

In addition, you do not know how the siglent uses the OXCO signal: Direct or by PLL. May also use the FM / sine modulation with a freq. of 500Hz or 1kHz and with 1Hz deviation.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bnz on September 30, 2022, 02:13:56 pm
Interesting,

how long does a single PN measurement in min/hours required.

While did some minutes ago some Jitter measurements using a LeCroy SDA.

It depends  ;)
1.) on the FFT size, which is responsible for the resolution.
2.) on how low frequencies in the PN graph you need.
3.) how good your reference oscillators are compared to the DUT (i.e. how much averaging/crosscorrelation is needed to get your curve above the noice floor).

The above graphs were made  with FFT size 4k and took about half an hour measurent time to get sub Hz readings.

Anyway, the figures are IMHO too low...

Please tell, used feq. on SDG as sine or square and levels (asymmetric symmetric). Also used OXCO brand & figures sine or square/levels.

Measure also the Square output of the siglent as this should have Jitter (plenty off) and also the used OXCO against the PN OXCO.

In addition, you do not know how the siglent uses the OXCO signal: Direct or by PLL. May also use the FM / sine modulation with a freq. of 500Hz or 1kHz and with 1Hz deviation.

The Holme-phase-noise system seems to be accurate. See the cross checks with professional equipment on his web site. Also I was able to reproduce the specs of some of my OCXOs. Moreover If I turn PM-modulaion on I get a spike of expected magnitude in the plot.

The Siglent was set on 10MHz Sine 4Vpp (HiZ). I also did a test with 11.1MHz, it looked alike (for the external-reference measurement). The OCXOs were C-MAC CFPO-2, measurement below.

No I have no idea how Siglent uses the OXCO signal, but heavy oscillation with multiples of OCXO to internal ref frequency difference does look wrong.

P.S. the dark blue trace is the measurement of the DUT. The light blue the estimated noise floor.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bnz on October 01, 2022, 08:22:05 am
I measured the reference in/output of the SDG2042X with a scope in the external-reference setting. There are indeed remains of the internal clock:  10MHz spikes of about 10mVpp (in 50 Ohm).

So is my SDG2042X defect or is that a feature, i.e. can somebody reproduce this measurement?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: luciof on October 01, 2022, 10:43:22 am
Connected the SDG2042X's 10 MHz In/Out BNC to the scope via a 50 ohm pass-thru terminator.
The first shot is in Internal Clock mode, and the second picture is in External Clock mode (like in your test); in this case it is an input, so I think it's quite normal to see some noise from the generator's circuitry.

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bnz on October 01, 2022, 11:46:32 am
Thanks for testing it  :)

Well it may be "normal", but it prevents to make use of the better phase noise performance of the external clock, to some extend. It's annoying as it is unnecessary that the internal clock is powered up at all, the latest as soon the external is connected.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: hpw on October 01, 2022, 12:08:33 pm
Well,

using some 20Gs scope... as 50E input

A) signal as internal looks equal, not nice square wave

B) signal as externsl looks like a 1GHz sine at 10mV

So turtles stuff at HF limited..

Cheers

hp
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bnz on October 01, 2022, 02:10:07 pm
OK, I fired up the big scope ... for my SDG it looks alike my picture with its little brother.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on December 10, 2022, 06:13:15 am
New firmware for SDG2000X models, as reported by NoisyBoy in this thread:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg2000x-firmware-hardware-software-versions/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg2000x-firmware-hardware-software-versions/)

Version: V2.01.01.37R3
39MB
https://int.siglent.com/upload_file/zip/firmware/Signal_generator/SDG2000X_V2.01.01.37R3_EN.zip (https://int.siglent.com/upload_file/zip/firmware/Signal_generator/SDG2000X_V2.01.01.37R3_EN.zip)

Release notes
Compatible with Rev.F hardware; if the hardware version is “05-xx-xx-xx-xx”, it will not support to roll back previous firmware version
Supported trig dual channel separated when use manual trigger.
Supported using another channel as the modulation source
Supported setting the output frequency after the completion of sweep
Counter add fast measurement mode
Changed the square waveform data used in square FM modulation
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: SimpleXP on December 10, 2022, 08:38:14 pm
Hi everybody,

I got a problem similar to the one here: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/help-fixing-siglent-sdg805/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/help-fixing-siglent-sdg805/), but with an SDG2042X. At some day, it just stopped booting up further the logo screen.

I already saved the boot log ouput via UART but I don't really know what the error at the end is telling me exactly...

Code: [Select]
U-Boot SPL 2013.01.01-svn72327 (Nov 06 2019 - 11:19:35)
config ddr_pll_config()++
config ddr_pll_config()--
nand_init+++++
nand_init-----
Lcd_Init()++
SetUpLCD()++
SetUpLCD()--
len=522292, height=272, width=480
Logo from nandflash: base=0x81000000; end=0x8107f81f; end-base=0x7f81f; rwsize=0x7f820; r=0x0
Lcd_Init()--


U-Boot 2013.01.01-svn72327 (Nov 06 2019 - 11:19:35)

I2C:   ready
DRAM:  128 MiB
NAND:  256 MiB
MMC:   OMAP SD/MMC: 0, OMAP SD/MMC: 1
Using default environment

set_default_env::8123
musb-hdrc: ConfigData=0xde (UTMI-8, dyn FIFOs, bulk combine, bulk split, HB-ISO Rx, HB-ISO Tx, SoftConn)
musb-hdrc: MHDRC RTL version 2.0
musb-hdrc: setup fifo_mode 4
musb-hdrc: 28/31 max ep, 16384/16384 memory
USB Peripheral mode controller at 47401000 using PIO, IRQ 0
musb-hdrc: ConfigData=0xde (UTMI-8, dyn FIFOs, bulk combine, bulk split, HB-ISO Rx, HB-ISO Tx, SoftConn)
musb-hdrc: MHDRC RTL version 2.0
musb-hdrc: setup fifo_mode 4
musb-hdrc: 28/31 max ep, 16384/16384 memory
USB Host mode controller at 47401800 using PIO, IRQ 0
Net:   <ethaddr> not set. Validating first E-fuse MAC
cpsw
Hit any key to stop autoboot
mmc_send_cmd : timeout: No status update
Card did not respond to voltage select!
(Re)start USB...
USB0:   lowlevel init failed
USB error: all controllers failed lowlevel init
Download Linux from USB to Nandflash...
** Bad device usb 0 **
** Bad device usb 0 **
** Bad device usb 0 **
** Bad device usb 0 **
** Bad device usb 0 **
Booting from nand ...

NAND read: device 0 offset 0x3080000, size 0x300000
 3145728 bytes read: OK
## Booting kernel from Legacy Image at 80200000 ...
   Image Name:   Linux-3.2.0-svn223263
   Image Type:   ARM Linux Kernel Image (uncompressed)
   Data Size:    2812168 Bytes = 2.7 MiB
   Load Address: 80008000
   Entry Point:  80008000
   Verifying Checksum ... OK
   Loading Kernel Image ... OK
OK

Starting kernel ...

Uncompressing Linux... done, booting the kernel.
[    0.000000] Linux version 3.2.0-svn223263 (david@david-virtual-machine) (gcc version 4.5.3 20110311 (prerelease) (GCC) ) #42 Wed Nov 6 11:19:32 CST 2019
[    0.000000] CPU: ARMv7 Processor [413fc082] revision 2 (ARMv7), cr=10c53c7d
[    0.000000] CPU: PIPT / VIPT nonaliasing data cache, VIPT aliasing instruction cache
[    0.000000] Machine: am335xevm
[    0.000000] Ignoring tag cmdline (using the default kernel command line)
[    0.000000] Memory policy: ECC disabled, Data cache writeback
[    0.000000] AM335X ES1.0 (neon )
[    0.000000] Built 1 zonelists in Zone order, mobility grouping on.  Total pages: 32512
[    0.000000] Kernel command line: console=ttyO0,115200n8 root=ubi0:rootfs ro ubi.mtd=7,2048 rootfstype=ubifs rootwait=1t ip=none
[    0.000000] PID hash table entries: 512 (order: -1, 2048 bytes)
[    0.000000] Dentry cache hash table entries: 16384 (order: 4, 65536 bytes)
[    0.000000] Inode-cache hash table entries: 8192 (order: 3, 32768 bytes)
[    0.000000] Memory: 128MB = 128MB total
[    0.000000] Memory: 123756k/123756k available, 7316k reserved, 0K highmem
[    0.000000] Virtual kernel memory layout:
[    0.000000]     vector  : 0xffff0000 - 0xffff1000   (   4 kB)
[    0.000000]     fixmap  : 0xfff00000 - 0xfffe0000   ( 896 kB)
[    0.000000]     vmalloc : 0xc8800000 - 0xff000000   ( 872 MB)
[    0.000000]     lowmem  : 0xc0000000 - 0xc8000000   ( 128 MB)
[    0.000000]     modules : 0xbf000000 - 0xc0000000   (  16 MB)
[    0.000000]       .text : 0xc0008000 - 0xc0529364   (5253 kB)
[    0.000000]       .init : 0xc052a000 - 0xc056c000   ( 264 kB)
[    0.000000]       .data : 0xc056c000 - 0xc05bd350   ( 325 kB)
[    0.000000]        .bss : 0xc05bd374 - 0xc060103c   ( 272 kB)
[    0.000000] NR_IRQS:396
[    0.000000] IRQ: Found an INTC at 0xfa200000 (revision 5.0) with 128 interrupts
[    0.000000] Total of 128 interrupts on 1 active controller
[    0.000000] OMAP clockevent source: GPTIMER2 at 25000000 Hz
[    0.000000] omap_dm_timer_switch_src: Switching to HW default clocksource(sys_clkin_ck) for timer1, this may impact timekeeping in low power state
[    0.000000] OMAP clocksource: GPTIMER1 at 25000000 Hz
[    0.000000] sched_clock: 32 bits at 25MHz, resolution 40ns, wraps every 171798ms
[    0.000000] Console: colour dummy device 80x30
[    0.000212] Calibrating delay loop... 718.02 BogoMIPS (lpj=3590144)
[    0.057101] pid_max: default: 32768 minimum: 301
[    0.057280] Mount-cache hash table entries: 512
[    0.057669] CPU: Testing write buffer coherency: ok
[    0.057746] ftrace: allocating 14556 entries in 43 pages
[    0.109567] omap_hwmod: gfx: failed to hardreset
[    0.125622] omap_hwmod: pruss: failed to hardreset
[    0.126786] print_constraints: dummy:
[    0.127072] NET: Registered protocol family 16
[    0.129315] OMAP GPIO hardware version 0.1
[    0.131577] am335x_evm_init()++
[    0.131803] omap_mux_init: Add partition: #1: core, flags: 0
[    0.134029] am335x_evm_i2c_init()++
[    0.134267]  omap_i2c.1: alias fck already exists
[    0.134471] am335x_evm_i2c_init()--
[    0.134599] da8xx_panel_power_ctrl()++
[    0.134638] back light switch = 1
[    0.134660] da8xx_panel_power_ctrl()--
[    0.134975] am335x_evm_init()--
[    0.135278]  omap2_mcspi.1: alias fck already exists
[    0.135496]  omap2_mcspi.2: alias fck already exists
[    0.135765]  edma.0: alias fck already exists
[    0.135787]  edma.0: alias fck already exists
[    0.135806]  edma.0: alias fck already exists
[    0.152705] bio: create slab <bio-0> at 0
[    0.154858] SCSI subsystem initialized
[    0.156661] usbcore: registered new interface driver usbfs
[    0.156986] usbcore: registered new interface driver hub
[    0.157240] usbcore: registered new device driver usb
[    0.157858] omap_i2c omap_i2c.1: bus 1 rev2.4.0 at 100 kHz
[    0.159660] tps65910 1-002d: JTAGREVNUM 0x0
[    0.162048] print_constraints: VRTC:
[    0.163492] print_constraints: VIO: at 1500 mV
[    0.165793] print_constraints: VDD1: 600 <--> 1500 mV at 1262 mV normal
[    0.168094] print_constraints: VDD2: 600 <--> 1500 mV at 1137 mV normal
[    0.169117] print_constraints: VDD3: 5000 mV
[    0.170517] print_constraints: VDIG1: at 1800 mV
[    0.171932] print_constraints: VDIG2: at 1800 mV
[    0.173346] print_constraints: VPLL: at 1800 mV
[    0.174760] print_constraints: VDAC: at 1800 mV
[    0.176191] print_constraints: VAUX1: at 1800 mV
[    0.177598] print_constraints: VAUX2: at 3300 mV
[    0.179024] print_constraints: VAUX33: at 3300 mV
[    0.180441] print_constraints: VMMC: at 3300 mV
[    0.180937] tps65910 1-002d: No interrupt support, no core IRQ
[    0.182569] cfg80211: Calling CRDA to update world regulatory domain
[    0.183214] Switching to clocksource gp timer
[    0.204195] NET: Registered protocol family 2
[    0.204406] IP route cache hash table entries: 1024 (order: 0, 4096 bytes)
[    0.204705] TCP established hash table entries: 4096 (order: 3, 32768 bytes)
[    0.204795] TCP bind hash table entries: 4096 (order: 2, 16384 bytes)
[    0.204851] TCP: Hash tables configured (established 4096 bind 4096)
[    0.204864] TCP reno registered
[    0.204877] UDP hash table entries: 256 (order: 0, 4096 bytes)
[    0.204901] UDP-Lite hash table entries: 256 (order: 0, 4096 bytes)
[    0.205077] NET: Registered protocol family 1
[    0.205362] RPC: Registered named UNIX socket transport module.
[    0.205376] RPC: Registered udp transport module.
[    0.205386] RPC: Registered tcp transport module.
[    0.205396] RPC: Registered tcp NFSv4.1 backchannel transport module.
[    0.206136] cpuidle-am33xx cpuidle-am33xx.0: failed to register driver
[    0.213469] Installing knfsd (copyright (C) 1996 okir@monad.swb.de).
[    0.213809] msgmni has been set to 241
[    0.214473] io scheduler noop registered
[    0.214488] io scheduler deadline registered
[    0.214570] io scheduler cfq registered (default)
[    0.215716] omap_uart.0: ttyO0 at MMIO 0x44e09000 (irq = 72) is a OMAP UART0
[    0.767017] console [ttyO0] enabled
[    0.771158] omap_uart.1: ttyO1 at MMIO 0x48022000 (irq = 73) is a OMAP UART1
[    0.778949] omap_uart.2: ttyO2 at MMIO 0x48024000 (irq = 74) is a OMAP UART2
[    0.786706] omap_uart.3: ttyO3 at MMIO 0x481a6000 (irq = 44) is a OMAP UART3
[    0.794442] omap_uart.4: ttyO4 at MMIO 0x481a8000 (irq = 45) is a OMAP UART4
[    0.802129] omap_uart.5: ttyO5 at MMIO 0x481aa000 (irq = 46) is a OMAP UART5
[    0.819361] brd: module loaded
[    0.827648] loop: module loaded
[    0.831012] at24 1-0051: 32768 byte 24c256 EEPROM, writable, 64 bytes/write
[    0.893256] No daughter card found
[    0.896847] at24 1-0050: 32768 byte 24c256 EEPROM, writable, 64 bytes/write
[    0.904115] am335x_evm_setup()++
[    0.963256] AM335X: EVM Config read fail: -110
[    0.967884] No board detected, using GPBoard 1.1A as default
[    0.973931] The board is general purpose EVM in profile 0
[    0.979555] Found invalid GP EVM revision, falling back to Rev1.1A
[    0.986008] -------siglent_fpga_init++
[    0.990013] -------siglent_fpga_init--
[    0.994721]  da8xx_lcdc.0: alias fck already exists
[    1.000246] evm_nand_init()++
[    1.003981] omap-gpmc omap-gpmc: GPMC revision 6.0
[    1.008984] Registering NAND on CS0
[    1.013219] evm_nand_init()--
[    1.017759] haptics_init()++
[    1.021729] haptics_init()--
[    1.024777] out_triger_gpio_init()++
[    1.028540] out_triger_gpio_init()--
[    1.032735] am335x_evm_setup()--
[    1.037646] mtdoops: mtd device (mtddev=name/number) must be supplied
[    1.044787] omap2-nand driver initializing
[    1.049377] ONFI flash detected
[    1.052781] ONFI param page 0 valid
[    1.056454] NAND device: Manufacturer ID: 0x2c, Chip ID: 0xda (Micron MT29F2G08ABAEAWP)
[    1.065146] Creating 12 MTD partitions on "omap2-nand.0":
[    1.070789] 0x000000000000-0x000000020000 : "SPL"
[    1.077156] 0x000000020000-0x000000040000 : "SPL.backup1"
[    1.084097] 0x000000040000-0x000000060000 : "SPL.backup2"
[    1.091000] 0x000000060000-0x000000080000 : "SPL.backup3"
[    1.097951] 0x000000080000-0x000000260000 : "U-Boot"
[    1.105182] 0x000000260000-0x000000280000 : "U-Boot Env"
[    1.111985] 0x000000280000-0x000000580000 : "Manufacturedata"
[    1.120528] 0x000000580000-0x000003080000 : "rootfs"
[    1.144868] 0x000003080000-0x000003680000 : "kerneldata"
[    1.154113] 0x000003680000-0x000006880000 : "firmdata0"
[    1.181550] 0x000006880000-0x000009a80000 : "firmdata1"
[    1.208981] 0x000009a80000-0x000010000000 : "datafs"
[    1.257708] OneNAND driver initializing
[    1.262405] UBI: attaching mtd7 to ubi0
[    1.266461] UBI: physical eraseblock size:   131072 bytes (128 KiB)
[    1.272992] UBI: logical eraseblock size:    126976 bytes
[    1.278626] UBI: smallest flash I/O unit:    2048
[    1.283535] UBI: sub-page size:              512
[    1.288344] UBI: VID header offset:          2048 (aligned 2048)
[    1.294610] UBI: data offset:                4096
[    1.709969] UBI: max. sequence number:       577
[    1.728487] UBI warning: print_rsvd_warning: cannot reserve enough PEBs for bad PEB handling, reserved 9, need 12
[    1.740175] UBI: attached mtd7 to ubi0
[    1.744120] UBI: MTD device name:            "rootfs"
[    1.749382] UBI: MTD device size:            43 MiB
[    1.754473] UBI: number of good PEBs:        344
[    1.759281] UBI: number of bad PEBs:         0
[    1.763917] UBI: number of corrupted PEBs:   0
[    1.768544] UBI: max. allowed volumes:       128
[    1.773360] UBI: wear-leveling threshold:    4096
[    1.778258] UBI: number of internal volumes: 1
[    1.782884] UBI: number of user volumes:     1
[    1.787519] UBI: available PEBs:             0
[    1.792146] UBI: total number of reserved PEBs: 344
[    1.797235] UBI: number of PEBs reserved for bad PEB handling: 9
[    1.803501] UBI: max/mean erase counter: 7/2
[    1.807947] UBI: image sequence number:  1632968070
[    1.813096] UBI: background thread "ubi_bgt0d" started, PID 485
[    1.863298] davinci_mdio davinci_mdio.0: davinci mdio revision 1.6
[    1.869748] davinci_mdio davinci_mdio.0: detected phy mask bfffffff
[    1.876541] bus->id = 0, addr= 30
[    1.880188] 11--
[    1.882314] davinci_mdio.0: probed
[    1.885899] davinci_mdio davinci_mdio.0: phy[30]: device 0:1e, driver unknown
[    1.893714] usbcore: registered new interface driver rt2800usb
[    1.899795] Initializing USB Mass Storage driver...
[    1.905092] usbcore: registered new interface driver usb-storage
[    1.911352] USB Mass Storage support registered.
[    1.916635] mousedev: PS/2 mouse device common for all mice
[    1.922444] i2c /dev entries driver
[    1.927234] OMAP Watchdog Timer Rev 0x01: initial timeout 60 sec
[    1.934268] TCP cubic registered
[    1.937636] NET: Registered protocol family 17
[    1.942400] NET: Registered protocol family 33
[    1.947082] lib80211: common routines for IEEE802.11 drivers
[    1.953025] Registering the dns_resolver key type
[    1.958005] VFP support v0.3: implementor 41 architecture 3 part 30 variant c rev 3
[    1.966010] ThumbEE CPU extension supported.
[    1.970519] mux: Failed to setup hwmod io irq -22
[    1.976038] Power Management for AM33XX family
[    1.980727] clock: disabling unused clocks to save power
[    1.987955] Detected MACID=68:9e:19:5c:3a:88
[    2.067101] UBIFS: recovery needed
[    2.270801] UBIFS: recovery deferred
[    2.274562] UBIFS: mounted UBI device 0, volume 0, name "rootfs"
[    2.280819] UBIFS: mounted read-only
[    2.284555] UBIFS: file system size:   40632320 bytes (39680 KiB, 38 MiB, 320 LEBs)
[    2.292537] UBIFS: journal size:       9023488 bytes (8812 KiB, 8 MiB, 72 LEBs)
[    2.300163] UBIFS: media format:       w4/r0 (latest is w4/r0)
[    2.306248] UBIFS: default compressor: lzo
[    2.310514] UBIFS: reserved for root:  0 bytes (0 KiB)
[    2.318288] VFS: Mounted root (ubifs filesystem) readonly on device 0:12.
[    2.325784] Freeing init memory: 264K

init started: BusyBox v1.13.2 (2012-04-08 17:28:57 CDT)

starting pid 520, tty '': '/etc/init.d/rcS'
rS in
/etc/init.d/rcS: line 14: setterm: not found
Current direction is :"/usr/bin/siglent"

starting pid 534, tty '/dev/ttyO0': '-/bin/sh'

Processing /etc/profile... Done

/ # [1B][34m[INFO]:[1B][0mcalibrate_t():line=81:calibrate_t::calibrate_t()
check_and_upgrade:starting...
mount_fs: rw,ubi1_0,/usr/bin/siglent/usr
ubi1_0unattached
attach_ubi:datafs
attach_ubi:11
[    5.069235] UBI: attaching mtd11 to ubi1
[    5.073406] UBI: physical eraseblock size:   131072 bytes (128 KiB)
[    5.079936] UBI: logical eraseblock size:    126976 bytes
[    5.085571] UBI: smallest flash I/O unit:    2048
[    5.090470] UBI: sub-page size:              512
[    5.095289] UBI: VID header offset:          2048 (aligned 2048)
[    5.101545] UBI: data offset:                4096
[    6.074508] UBI: max. sequence number:       31102
[    6.103391] UBI: attached mtd11 to ubi1
[    6.107407] UBI: MTD device name:            "datafs"
[    6.112669] UBI: MTD device size:            101 MiB
[    6.117858] UBI: number of good PEBs:        812
[    6.122666] UBI: number of bad PEBs:         0
[    6.127303] UBI: number of corrupted PEBs:   0
[    6.131930] UBI: max. allowed volumes:       128
[    6.136747] UBI: wear-leveling threshold:    4096
[    6.141645] UBI: number of internal volumes: 1
[    6.146281] UBI: number of user volumes:     1
[    6.150907] UBI: available PEBs:             0
[    6.155544] UBI: total number of reserved PEBs: 812
[    6.160623] UBI: number of PEBs reserved for bad PEB handling: 32
[    6.166980] UBI: max/mean erase counter: 58/38
[    6.171608] UBI: image sequence number:  79843063
[    6.176537] UBI: background thread "ubi_bgt1d" started, PID 554
UBI device number 1, total 812 LEBs (103104512 bytes, 98.3 MiB), available 0 LEBs (0 bytes), LEB size 126976 bytes (124.0 KiB)
MOUNT_DIR_NAME = /usr/bin/siglent/usr
TEST_RESTURN =
is_fs_mounted 0 ---
[    6.289626] UBIFS: recovery needed
[    6.445662] UBIFS: recovery completed
[    6.449504] UBIFS: mounted UBI device 1, volume 0, name "rootfs"
[    6.455785] UBIFS: file system size:   97136640 bytes (94860 KiB, 92 MiB, 765 LEBs)
[    6.463778] UBIFS: journal size:       9023488 bytes (8812 KiB, 8 MiB, 72 LEBs)
[    6.471395] UBIFS: media format:       w4/r0 (latest is w4/r0)
[    6.477480] UBIFS: default compressor: lzo
[    6.481746] UBIFS: reserved for root:  0 bytes (0 KiB)
is_need_upgrade
is_need_upgrade:not need upgrade
check_and_upgrade:end...
++mount_check_copy_appdata: starting
mount_fs: ro,ubi2_0,/usr/bin/siglent/firmdata0
ubi2_0unattached
attach_ubi:firmdata0
attach_ubi:9
[    6.551622] UBI: attaching mtd9 to ubi2
[    6.555718] UBI: physical eraseblock size:   131072 bytes (128 KiB)
[    6.562249] UBI: logical eraseblock size:    126976 bytes
[    6.567885] UBI: smallest flash I/O unit:    2048
[    6.572784] UBI: sub-page size:              512
[    6.577603] UBI: VID header offset:          2048 (aligned 2048)
[    6.583869] UBI: data offset:                4096
[    7.065982] UBI: max. sequence number:       34
[    7.093376] UBI: attached mtd9 to ubi2
[    7.097301] UBI: MTD device name:            "firmdata0"
[    7.102834] UBI: MTD device size:            50 MiB
[    7.107936] UBI: number of good PEBs:        400
[    7.112743] UBI: number of bad PEBs:         0
[    7.117392] UBI: number of corrupted PEBs:   0
[    7.122019] UBI: max. allowed volumes:       128
[    7.126837] UBI: wear-leveling threshold:    4096
[    7.131735] UBI: number of internal volumes: 1
[    7.136371] UBI: number of user volumes:     1
[    7.140997] UBI: available PEBs:             0
[    7.145633] UBI: total number of reserved PEBs: 400
[    7.150713] UBI: number of PEBs reserved for bad PEB handling: 16
[    7.157069] UBI: max/mean erase counter: 2/1
[    7.161515] UBI: image sequence number:  1976655378
[    7.166626] UBI: background thread "ubi_bgt2d" started, PID 579
UBI device number 2, total 400 LEBs (50790400 bytes, 48.4 MiB), available 0 LEBs (0 bytes), LEB size 126976 bytes (124.0 KiB)
MOUNT_DIR_NAME = /usr/bin/siglent/firmdata0
TEST_RESTURN =
is_fs_mounted 0 ---
[    7.359768] UBIFS: mounted UBI device 2, volume 0, name "firmdata0"
[    7.366338] UBIFS: mounted read-only
[    7.370065] UBIFS: file system size:   46854144 bytes (45756 KiB, 44 MiB, 369 LEBs)
[    7.378059] UBIFS: journal size:       9023488 bytes (8812 KiB, 8 MiB, 72 LEBs)
[    7.385687] UBIFS: media format:       w4/r0 (latest is w4/r0)
[    7.391763] UBIFS: default compressor: lzo
[    7.396038] UBIFS: reserved for root:  0 bytes (0 KiB)
--mount_check_copy_appdata: ending

                                                       $Task start:: SCPI
 example_thread++
[    7.683648]
[    7.683659] CPSW phy found : id is : 0x20005c90
[    7.690666] PHY 0:01 not found
[    7.762294] gpib_usb_init
 $Task start:: Devce
 vxi11_main = 7890.12
$Task start:: Udisk&Lan
 drv_instance_manage_t: produce_id: 10600
(DRV_PRODUCT_SDG2000)
_drv_product=0
[    8.963270] sched: RT throttling activated
[    9.023988] usbcore: registered new interface driver usb-gpib
init_spi:: name = /dev/spidev1.0
init_spi:: handle = 17
_init_load_fpga_file_to_fpga()::str_path = /usr/bin/siglent/config/fpga/fpga.bin
[1B][34m[INFO]:[1B][0mload_cali_data():line=1544:sdg2000 load from usr cali data OK
Config module error:lib_xml_t::set_content = iq:max_amp:
Config module error:lib_xml_t::set_content = iq:min_amp:
Config module error:lib_xml_t::set_content = iq:max_sample_rate:
Config module error:lib_xml_t::set_content = iq:min_symbol_rate:
Config module error:lib_xml_t::set_content = iq:max_center_frq:
Config module error:lib_xml_t::set_content = iq:min_center_frq:
Config module error:lib_xml_t::set_content = iq:max_gain_balance:
Config module error:lib_xml_t::set_content = iq:min_gain_balance:
Config module error:lib_xml_t::set_content = iq:max_Q_Angle:
Config module error:lib_xml_t::set_content = iq:min_Q_Angle:
Config module error:lib_xml_t::set_content = iq:max_offset:
Config module error:lib_xml_t::set_content = iq:min_offset:
I/O error : Read-only file system
I/O error : Read-only file system
Config module error:lib_xml_t::set_content = device:Support_IQ_Flag:
I/O error : Read-only file system
I/O error : Read-only file system
mod_if_exit_handler:signal=11
Clean Up Ready!
Clean Up - Example
Clean Up - SCPI
Clean Up - dev_thread
Clean Up - dev_interpreter_main
Clean Up - USBTMC
Clean Up - ui_task
Clean Up - touch_task
Clean Up - key
Clean Up - Config
Clean Up - Config assistant
Clean Up - Config_assistant_voltage_overload
Clean Up - VXI_11
Clean Up - telnet_scpi
Clean Up - socket
Clean Up - GPIB
Clean Up - Timer
Clean Up Over!


I measured all hardware voltages, they are all as expected and the FPGA and Linux Heartbeat LEDs are blinking like they should.

I tried starting the sdg2000.app manually per nonsole but this ends in the same error, some configuration seems to be bricked.

I would like to try reflashing the firmware but I don't know how to do this via UART.

I would be really happy if I can restore this unit!
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on December 10, 2022, 08:44:39 pm
Hi everybody,

I got a problem similar to the one here: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/help-fixing-siglent-sdg805/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/help-fixing-siglent-sdg805/), but with an SDG2042X. At some day, it just stopped booting up further the logo screen.


I would be really happy if I can restore this unit!
Welcome to the forum.

We have recovery files to fix these.
Send us a PM with your email and we'll get this sorted for you.

In the meanwhile find a USB stick of 8GB max formatted in FAT32 with 4k clusters.

..........
And he got it fixed. :)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: markone on December 10, 2022, 10:56:53 pm
New firmware for SDG2000X models, as reported by NoisyBoy in this thread:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg2000x-firmware-hardware-software-versions/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg2000x-firmware-hardware-software-versions/)

Version: V2.01.01.37R3
39MB
https://int.siglent.com/upload_file/zip/firmware/Signal_generator/SDG2000X_V2.01.01.37R3_EN.zip (https://int.siglent.com/upload_file/zip/firmware/Signal_generator/SDG2000X_V2.01.01.37R3_EN.zip)

Release notes
Compatible with Rev.F hardware; if the hardware version is “05-xx-xx-xx-xx”, it will not support to roll back previous firmware version

My SDG2042x shows HW version "02-07-00-40-00", where should be the letter 'F' ?

I guess it's not compatible.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on December 10, 2022, 11:00:46 pm
New firmware for SDG2000X models, as reported by NoisyBoy in this thread:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg2000x-firmware-hardware-software-versions/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg2000x-firmware-hardware-software-versions/)

Version: V2.01.01.37R3
39MB
https://int.siglent.com/upload_file/zip/firmware/Signal_generator/SDG2000X_V2.01.01.37R3_EN.zip (https://int.siglent.com/upload_file/zip/firmware/Signal_generator/SDG2000X_V2.01.01.37R3_EN.zip)

Release notes
Compatible with Rev.F hardware; if the hardware version is “05-xx-xx-xx-xx”, it will not support to roll back previous firmware version

My SDG2042x shows HW version "02-07-00-40-00", where should be the letter 'F' ?

I guess it's not compatible.
I'm guessing it's in the SN# coding.
Should have more idea after a reply from Tech support and after getting more stock of these in a week or so.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: hpw on December 11, 2022, 08:07:14 am
New firmware for SDG2000X models, as reported by NoisyBoy in this thread:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg2000x-firmware-hardware-software-versions/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg2000x-firmware-hardware-software-versions/)

Version: V2.01.01.37R3
39MB
https://int.siglent.com/upload_file/zip/firmware/Signal_generator/SDG2000X_V2.01.01.37R3_EN.zip (https://int.siglent.com/upload_file/zip/firmware/Signal_generator/SDG2000X_V2.01.01.37R3_EN.zip)

Release notes
Compatible with Rev.F hardware; if the hardware version is “05-xx-xx-xx-xx”, it will not support to roll back previous firmware version

My SDG2042x shows HW version "02-07-00-40-00", where should be the letter 'F' ?

I guess it's not compatible.

My HW SDG2082x as 02-02-00-40-00 as using 37R3.

Just look the results compared to Keysight &  :palm: SDG

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg2000x-firmware-hardware-software-versions/msg4574527/#msg4574527 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg2000x-firmware-hardware-software-versions/msg4574527/#msg4574527)

Cheers

Hp
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tv84 on December 11, 2022, 12:33:26 pm
My understanding is that:

Rev.F hardware is hardware version “05-xx-xx-xx-xx”


(A-0, B-1, C-2, D-3, E-4, F-5, ...)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: markone on December 11, 2022, 12:40:37 pm
My understanding is that:

Rev.F hardware is hardware version “05-xx-xx-xx-xx”


(A-0, B-1, C-2, D-3, E-4, F-5, ...)

Ok, if this is confirmed, mine instrument is a "Rev.C" HW : "02-07-00-40-00"

So i'm out this release, a pity because the feature to use the second channel as modulation source it would have been very useful for me.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: BmaxTom on December 11, 2022, 12:52:19 pm
Quote

Ok, if this is confirmed, mine instrument is a "Rev.C" HW : "02-07-00-40-00"

So i'm out this release, a pity because the feature to use the second channel as modulation source it would have been very useful for me.
Why? It says it's compatible with hardware rev. F and you can't downgrade with that rev. F. It doesn't say it's incompatible with other hardware revs.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tv84 on December 11, 2022, 12:59:00 pm
As I've said here (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg2000x-firmware-hardware-software-versions/msg4574860/#msg4574860) the FW can be flashed in any HW version because it contains a package for the different HW's.

Don't know if that new capability is only present with the new MCU.

Also, can't understand how a FW that was packaged in August 31st takes 4 months to release publicly...
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: markone on December 11, 2022, 01:16:53 pm
Why? It says it's compatible with hardware rev. F and you can't downgrade with that rev. F. It doesn't say it's incompatible with other hardware revs.

How do you read this statement ?

-snip
Release notes
Compatible with Rev.F hardware; if the hardware version is “05-xx-xx-xx-xx”, it will not support to roll back previous firmware version

I read "Compatible with Rev.F hardware", in my book  is equal to "not compatible with HW Revisions different from F".

Now the subsequent question : where the **** or what the **** is the HW Rev. ?

System info reports a sequence of 5 numbers, no letters ...  :palm:
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: djadeski on December 11, 2022, 01:21:27 pm
I flashed the new firmware to my improved SDG2042x and managed to then go back to the previous version without apparent issue.

I have hw: 02-01-00-40-00 and went from 2.01.01.35R3B2 to 2.01.01.37.R3 and back to 2.01.01.35R3B2.

It seemed to go both ways no issue - screenshots attached.

(edit - second pic didn't take)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: markone on December 11, 2022, 01:44:51 pm
I flashed the new firmware to my improved SDG2042x and managed to then go back to the previous version without apparent issue.

I have hw: 02-01-00-40-00 and went from 2.01.01.35R3B2 to 2.01.01.37.R3 and back to 2.01.01.35R3B2.

It seemed to go both ways no issue - screenshots attached.

(edit - second pic didn't take)

So the mystery deepens  :D

Sorry if I appear a dumb, but ... the modulation defect is for all HW versions or what  ... :-//
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on December 12, 2022, 07:49:06 am
New firmware for SDG2000X models, as reported by NoisyBoy in this thread:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg2000x-firmware-hardware-software-versions/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg2000x-firmware-hardware-software-versions/)

Version: V2.01.01.37R3
39MB
https://int.siglent.com/upload_file/zip/firmware/Signal_generator/SDG2000X_V2.01.01.37R3_EN.zip (https://int.siglent.com/upload_file/zip/firmware/Signal_generator/SDG2000X_V2.01.01.37R3_EN.zip)

Release notes (edited)
Also compatible with Rev.F hardware; if the hardware version is “05-xx-xx-xx-xx”, it will not support to roll back previous firmware version
Supported trig dual channel separated when use manual trigger.
Supported using another channel as the modulation source
Supported setting the output frequency after the completion of sweep
Counter add fast measurement mode
Changed the square waveform data used in square FM modulation
Some clarification arrived from Tech support.

All HW versions accept this new V2.01.01.37R3 firmware and it is only Rev.F hardware; if the hardware version is “05-xx-xx-xx-xx”, it will not support to roll back previous firmware version.

So V2.01.01.37R3 can be installed into any SDG2000X instrument.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: 2N3055 on December 12, 2022, 08:59:51 am
I flashed the new firmware to my improved SDG2042x and managed to then go back to the previous version without apparent issue.

I have hw: 02-01-00-40-00 and went from 2.01.01.35R3B2 to 2.01.01.37.R3 and back to 2.01.01.35R3B2.

It seemed to go both ways no issue - screenshots attached.

(edit - second pic didn't take)

So the mystery deepens  :D

Sorry if I appear a dumb, but ... the modulation defect is for all HW versions or what  ... :-//

It is not clear if it exists at all. The person in question has a bit of trouble communicating details and while there is certainly something going on, it is not clear to me what is wrong.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg2000x-firmware-hardware-software-versions/msg4574527/#msg4574527 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg2000x-firmware-hardware-software-versions/msg4574527/#msg4574527)

Look at my post later for 6000 and 7000 AWGs... They look better than that Keysight.
There is also post from Mike from his 2000 that looks a lot like mine.

So I'm not sure...
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: maxspb69 on December 12, 2022, 09:14:50 am
My HW version is 02-01-00-40-00, but the new firmware is not installed. The process starts: "10%-20%-90%" and right after that "Update failed" message.
I tried from different flash drives and copying the firmware to the internal memory - the result is invariably the same. What could be the problem?

upd: I solved the problem by resetting all the settings to default. After that, the firmware installed normally.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tomeo.gonzales on December 12, 2022, 10:44:57 pm
My HW version is also 02-01-00-40-00.
I try to reset all settings to default but the new firmware fails to install.
Can you please detail how you reset all settings?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: maxspb69 on December 13, 2022, 07:18:37 pm
Utils-System-Default. Then immediately launch the firmware update from the flash drive.

The SDG2000X is generally very capricious when updating firmware, and in the past often refused to accept new firmware. In all other cases, it works flawlessly.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Roger Need on December 13, 2022, 09:19:07 pm
Latest firmware for SDG2000X has the following updates:

Release notes
Compatible with Rev.F hardware; if the hardware version is “05-xx-xx-xx-xx”, it will not support to roll back previous firmware version
Supported trig dual channel separated when use manual trigger.
Supported using another channel as the modulation source
Supported setting the output frequency after the completion of sweep
Counter add fast measurement mode
Changed the square waveform data used in square FM modulation


Has anyone tried the Counter add fast measurement mode ?  What does it do?

A real shame they didn't add more digits to frequency setting...

Roger
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: markone on December 13, 2022, 09:28:33 pm
I just applied the last firmware and now my SDG2042X's encoder response has deeply improved  :-+
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: pope on December 13, 2022, 10:13:55 pm
I just applied the last firmware and now my SDG2042X's encoder response has deeply improved  :-+

That's great to hear. I thought it was a hardware problem (i.e crappy encoder).

I have an sdg1032x and the encoder really bugs me. Hopefully, they'll release an update for the sdg1000x seriers too.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: djadeski on December 13, 2022, 10:41:13 pm

A real shame they didn't add more digits to frequency setting...

Roger

Looks like they did add a couple of digits to Frequency ...

(edit: not sure why the pic is upside down - try again)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on December 13, 2022, 10:50:47 pm
Anyone notice the small change in display font ?  :)
Not sure what that's about.  :-//
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bicycleguy on December 14, 2022, 12:46:39 am
@tautech
Maybe the font is  smaller to accommodate more digits as @djadeski noted?  I have to find where this was causing a problem for
me, but looks like its better.

The SCPI command 'MODE INDEPENDENT' and 'MODE PHASE-LOCKED' seem to work now.  Don't know if I checked it for 35R3B2.

Haven't played with the modulation yet.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: markone on December 14, 2022, 03:57:12 pm
Anyone notice the small change in display font ?  :)
Not sure what that's about.  :-//

I can confirm, the new font would be nice but size it's too small...
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Johnny B Good on December 14, 2022, 06:01:11 pm
@tautech
Maybe the font is  smaller to accommodate more digits as @djadeski noted?  I have to find where this was causing a problem for
me, but looks like its better.


 One can only hope! However, if the surplus characters, "itude", are dropped, this leaves sufficient space to accommodate the full complement of 14 digits to show the frequency to the claimed 1uHz resolution right up to 100MHz without the need to reduce the font size, just like my cheap FeelTech FY6600-60M 'toy' function generator does (only meaningful of course when modded with an OXCO that can be locked to a high grade external reference  >:D).
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Roger Need on December 15, 2022, 05:37:05 pm
Anyone notice the small change in display font ?  :)
Not sure what that's about.  :-//

Yes the font size is reduced and there is lots of space on the screen for a bigger font.  Hard to read especially digits like 3.   As a distributor you have contacts at Siglent tech support.  Could you ask them to increase font size back to what it used to be?  Should be an easy fix.

Thanks - Roger
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: nike75 on January 08, 2023, 02:52:18 pm
I also confirm that the font has been reduced and is quite a bit harder to read. I am going back to the previous 35R3B2 and will wait for a new update.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Cavhat on January 11, 2023, 09:09:18 pm
Latest firmware for SDG2000X has the following updates:

Release notes
Compatible with Rev.F hardware; if the hardware version is “05-xx-xx-xx-xx”, it will not support to roll back previous firmware version
Supported trig dual channel separated when use manual trigger.
Supported using another channel as the modulation source
Supported setting the output frequency after the completion of sweep
Counter add fast measurement mode
Changed the square waveform data used in square FM modulation


Has anyone tried the Counter add fast measurement mode ?  What does it do?

A real shame they didn't add more digits to frequency setting...

Roger

I’ve found that this firmware update improves the frequency counter’s measurement update speed at the cost of making the counter unusable.  I’ll explain.

The upside:  The frequency counter now has two settings: “slow” and “fast”.  The “slow” setting updates the counter’s screen at about 1 Hz, and the “fast” setting updates at around 4 Hz.  This is a definite improvement over the previous, non-configurable update speed of about 0.5 Hz.

The downside: This firmware update has introduced a bug in which the longer the counter is both enabled and actively displayed on the screen, the less responsive the device’s user interface becomes (in terms of the latency between a key press and its effect).  Eventually, the device becomes completely unresponsive and requires its power to be cycled in order to restore responsiveness.  The degradation in responsiveness is directly proportional to the counter’s update speed setting—setting the counter to “fast” will degrade responsiveness faster than setting the counter to “slow”, to the point where one can observe key press latency increasing with each passing second.

This bug makes the frequency counter feature of this device nearly useless.  Note that I have a “liberated” SDG2042X with Rev. C hardware (hardware version 02-02-00-40-00).  Has anyone else encountered this pathological behavior?

Side note: the new ability to use the other channel as a modulation source is glorious!  (Or, at least, appears to be so during my limited testing so far.)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: jpep on January 12, 2023, 02:46:01 pm
I’ve found that this firmware update improves the frequency counter’s measurement update speed at the cost of making the counter unusable.  I’ll explain.

The upside:  The frequency counter now has two settings: “slow” and “fast”.  The “slow” setting updates the counter’s screen at about 1 Hz, and the “fast” setting updates at around 4 Hz.  This is a definite improvement over the previous, non-configurable update speed of about 0.5 Hz.

The downside: This firmware update has introduced a bug in which the longer the counter is both enabled and actively displayed on the screen, the less responsive the device’s user interface becomes (in terms of the latency between a key press and its effect).  Eventually, the device becomes completely unresponsive and requires its power to be cycled in order to restore responsiveness.  The degradation in responsiveness is directly proportional to the counter’s update speed setting—setting the counter to “fast” will degrade responsiveness faster than setting the counter to “slow”, to the point where one can observe key press latency increasing with each passing second.

This bug makes the frequency counter feature of this device nearly useless.  Note that I have a “liberated” SDG2042X with Rev. C hardware (hardware version 02-02-00-40-00).  Has anyone else encountered this pathological behavior?

Side note: the new ability to use the other channel as a modulation source is glorious!  (Or, at least, appears to be so during my limited testing so far.)

I'm having exactly the same issue and I was wondering if nobody else had experienced this problem with the latest firmware. When using the frequency counter, first the device starts to feel unresponsive/laggy and at the end the user interface freezes... My hardware is 02-01-00-40-00.

I contacted with support a couple of days ago and they asked me to send my device as it might be a faulty device, but I pointed out that if I downgrade the firmware to previous version everything worked fine, so it should be a software problem. Hopefully they are trying the reproduce the issue with the latest firmware version and fix it on a future firmware. I will send them your post also for reference.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: jpep on January 12, 2023, 07:38:29 pm
It would be nice if others running the latest firmware version (V2.01.01.37R3 released past month) could check for the frequency counter bug and post their hardware version and results, so we can report it to siglent for them to fix it.

To check for the bug, just run the frequency counter:
Code: [Select]
Utility -> Counter -> State "ON"
The device should start to feel laggy/unresponsive as the time passes and once "num" reaches between 700-1200 counts the device freezes.

To speed up the process you can enable fast counting under setup:
Code: [Select]
Utility -> Counter -> Setup -> Type "Fast"
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: djadeski on January 12, 2023, 10:30:59 pm
Just checked on my enhanced 2042 with hardware 02-01-00-40-00 and I experienced the same thing - the counter starts out as not being very responsive to key presses and by 1200 or so samples it continues counting but is completely unresponsive to any keyboard input and requires a power cycle to recover.



Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bicycleguy on January 13, 2023, 01:31:45 am
02-02-00-40-00     V2.01.01.37R3 enhanced
Definitely some kind of bug but:
Laggy at first but after a 5 to 6 presses of say the < or > buttons it seems to get more responsive.
Pressing Waveforms then Utility and Counter gets back to startup lag or better.
With counter running in background the generator functions seem to work with normal response.

(http://[attachimg=1])

After posting this it froze at 11,472 counts
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bicycleguy on January 13, 2023, 01:42:39 am
In it's frozen state SCPI can still do a screen dump.  Note the counts in the bottom row don't match as normally.

(http://[attach=1])
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: thinkfat on January 13, 2023, 07:10:54 am
Someone with telnet access to the instrument might want to check memory stats - things getting laggy over time and then eventually freezing sounds like a memory leak to me :)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: jpep on January 13, 2023, 03:23:15 pm
Thanks for the testing guys. Support told me they have also managed to reproduce the bug, and now they are forwarding it to the HQ. Hopefully we will get a firmware update with a fix.

Someone with telnet access to the instrument might want to check memory stats - things getting laggy over time and then eventually freezing sounds like a memory leak to me :)

I thought the same at first, then I took a quick look and iirc the ui app was stuck on a futex syscall. So now my guess is that it is a synchronization/locking problem in their app or their kernel code.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Neepa on January 21, 2023, 05:29:43 pm
Ok after now a year of owning the SDG2042X I tried the firmware hack and immediately encountered a problem.

DHCP doesn't work. Initially I reverted back to the oldest available formware version 17R5 and there DHCP turned on but the IP, Subnet and Gateway all turned to zeroes upon turning it on.

The Default IP adress being a weird 10.11.9.230.

At this stage at least DHCP was ostensibly still turning on....

However upon reverting to the old firmware 35R3B2 DHCP doesn't even turn on anymore. Tried the newest one 37R3 and no luck here also. The cursor jumps into the DHCP field but pressing it doesn't do anything at all. No IP change nothing.

Could this be a problem on the PC side?
Hardware is 02-02-00-40-00.

So what do?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bson on January 21, 2023, 09:39:02 pm
Can you check the DHCP server to see if it actually got a lease, or an error of some sort was logged?  Can you check if the DHCP client is running on the instrument?  It may have crashed due to a memory hardware problem, or it's out of memory or there's a bug or something.

It can also be something more complex, like it gets a lease for an address it already has an ARP entry for, meaning it thinks it's already in use by something else, so it's rejected.  It then asks the server for another one, but some DHCP servers will never return a new lease and will just keep repeating the one they already have.

You may have more than one DHCP server active, both trying to hand out leases on a default 192.168.0.0 net.  (Some super basic routers can't even be configured to use anything else.)  So the address might already be in use.  I've used the 10-net since time immemorial, with subnets for static addresses, DHCP, and VPN; if I ever see a 192.168 address I know immediately it's a configuration problem (something isn't set up correctly).
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Martin72 on January 21, 2023, 10:02:24 pm
Hi,

I´ve bought a 2042X (now 2122X..) since last month.

Firmware untouched so far, 2.01.01.37R2 , Hardware the same as you(02-02-00-40-00).

On my way to hack this thing, I didn´t have any problems with DHCP.
BUT:
It allows any changes only when LAN is active AND a network was found.
Tried it a few minutes ago without having a connection everything fails, DHCP couldn´t be activated.

Hope that helps.
Martin
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Neepa on January 21, 2023, 10:49:31 pm
Yup that helps.

You having similar symptomps means it's not entirely the fault of the instrument but something in conjunction with my PC and the ethernet connection.

HAHA!
Connected the generator to my router and there DHCP works now. The Python hack should be doable over this indirect network connection right?

Something to try out tomorrow!
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Martin72 on January 21, 2023, 11:03:44 pm
Hi,

Quote
Connected the generator to my router and there DHCP works now.

My meters are always connected via the router.

Quote
The Python hack should be doable over this indirect network connection right?

The script doesn't care. ;)
It is only to generate, not to transfer anything.


Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Performa01 on January 22, 2023, 09:02:02 am
Yup that helps.

You having similar symptomps means it's not entirely the fault of the instrument but something in conjunction with my PC and the ethernet connection.
So it's not "entirely the fault of the instrument" - how generous! Could it be that it's also a teeny-weeny bit the fault of a clueless user?

HAHA!
Connected the generator to my router and there DHCP works now.
That's what routers are made for. Guess where the DHCP server sits?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Neepa on January 22, 2023, 09:48:41 am
I dunno honestly.

It's just that all the instructions for performing the hack simply state "connect via Ethernet"; "turn DHCP on" followed by basically "it's go time".

So reading this my basic thought was connect PC directly to generator and it should work. :-//
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Performa01 on January 22, 2023, 10:29:03 am
Connecting a device directly to the PC is a very special case and cannot be considered as a network - it's only a point to point connection after all. For a network, we need at least a hub (went out of fashion a long time ago) or a router. Only the latter contains a DHCP server, which of course is the prerequisite for DHCP to work.

A direct PC connection can be made to work with manual IP settings.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tv84 on January 22, 2023, 10:55:02 am
Only the latter contains a DHCP server, which of course is the prerequisite for DHCP to work.

Don't want to nitpick but you can configure a DHCP server in the PC. ;)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: 2N3055 on January 22, 2023, 01:08:39 pm
I dunno honestly.

It's just that all the instructions for performing the hack simply state "connect via Ethernet"; "turn DHCP on" followed by basically "it's go time".

So reading this my basic thought was connect PC directly to generator and it should work. :-//

Unlike Performa, I will nitpick..

Siglent is hardly responsible for the fact that instructions how to hack instruments are not friendly to users that don't know much about networking....

And also Siglent in it's manual explains it all:

Note:
⚫ If the generator is connected to the PC directly, set the IP addresses,
subnet masks and gateways for both of the PC and generator. The subnet
masks and gateways of PC and generator must be the same and the IP
addresses of them must be within the same network segment.
⚫ If the generator is connected to the LAN of your PC, please contact with
your network administrator to get an available IP address. For details,
refer to the TCP/IP protocol.

4) DHCP Configuration Mode
In DHCP mode, the DHCP server in the current network assigns LAN
parameters, e.g. IP address, for the generator. Press DHCP to select “On” or
“Off” to turn DHCP mode on or off. The default is “Off”.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Performa01 on January 22, 2023, 04:42:02 pm
Only the latter contains a DHCP server, which of course is the prerequisite for DHCP to work.

Don't want to nitpick but you can configure a DHCP server in the PC. ;)
Right. I was talking about the default conditions though. It's hard to believe that in this particular case anything other than the default would be of any significance ;)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: JOFlaherty on January 28, 2023, 04:43:58 pm
About the frequency counter bug in the SDG2042X - it seems to be something associated with displaying the data, or the repeated calculations needed to do that.

If you start the frequency counter, and then press the waveform key, going back to that screen, the FC continues to run. I tested it last night, and when I went back to the counter screen (UTIL,COUNTER), it showed N = 115,450. 
Then leaving it on the FC screen, the instrument had frozen up by N = 116,409.

So, it's possible to collect counter statistics for a long time, as long as you're staying on another screen.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Vit G on February 11, 2023, 11:08:09 am
Hello! I have a 2042x after trying to downgrade the firmware (16R2) stopped loading. On the screen only a Logo presents. how to bring it back to life now? Help please!
I saw on Dave's video how to restore 2122x using sd card. Where can I get the files for it for the 2042x model? perhaps this would help me.

UPD
My 2042X is 05-00-00-46-00 hw version. Dont have SD slot on board. it seems i need USB recover stick ?

UPD2
After about 10 minutes, a message appeared on the screen:  "No external clock source!".
 I connected an external 10MHz from my HP8920A and repeated the power-up procedure again. It did not help. The message reappeared after 10 min.

 The HL1 LED near CPU does not light up.

UPD3
 Thanks  for Siglent support. I make restore USB stick but this not helped .  I see some numerous errors in the bootlog. I am attaching it here.
 Need opinion from more experienced people  :'(
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: mvlc on February 12, 2023, 05:07:52 pm
As far as I remember, at least firmware version 23R7 need to be installed to be able to use system recovery from U-disk.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on February 12, 2023, 07:20:20 pm
Hello! I have a 2042x after trying to downgrade the firmware (16R2) stopped loading. On the screen only a Logo presents. how to bring it back to life now? Help please!
I saw on Dave's video how to restore 2122x using sd card. Where can I get the files for it for the 2042x model? perhaps this would help me.

UPD
My 2042X is 05-00-00-46-00 hw version. Dont have SD slot on board. it seems i need USB recover stick ?

UPD2
After about 10 minutes, a message appeared on the screen:  "No external clock source!".
 I connected an external 10MHz from my HP8920A and repeated the power-up procedure again. It did not help. The message reappeared after 10 min.

 The HL1 LED near CPU does not light up.

UPD3
 Thanks  for Siglent support. I make restore USB stick but this not helped .  I see some numerous errors in the bootlog. I am attaching it here.
Need opinion from more experienced people  :'(
You do as your actions broke this working AWG.

Member mvic is quite correct in that attempting to install 16R2 took the OS back to before 23R7 when USB recovery was introduced.
You report your later unit has no SD card slot which results from a time when the firmware was so stable it was removed as any boot freeze could be recovered with the USB tool.

Any further progress relies on you installing a SD card holder and when done contact me again for the SD recovery package.
BTW, also get an 8GB SD card for it in readiness.

BTW, I am not Siglent support but I give my time freely to help owners even if they have done darn silly things with their instruments.
FYI Firmware revision history attached.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Vit G on February 12, 2023, 07:40:18 pm
Yes, I know it's my own fault. =( I did not think that the hardware had changed so much and did not even look inside the device to find that the SD slot was missing.
  I would install it, but is it technically possible? on this board there is not even a wiring for a slot and, of course, I do not have circuits from these devices.
  On the board, I see one connector that is possibly used for booting, but I don’t know. Is it possible to connect an SD card to it in SPI mode?

 UPD.
 No. It's most likely configuration of power management. tps65400
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on February 12, 2023, 08:09:43 pm
From the SD card recovery instructions, please see below pic with the location of the SD card holder.
It is likely the footprint is still there to be populated with a new SD card holder.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: thinkfat on February 12, 2023, 08:19:47 pm
Nobody finds it weird how it's even possible to install a firmware that is too old to support the hardware? Preventing this must be trivial.  :palm:
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Vit G on February 12, 2023, 08:31:51 pm
At the end of the firmware installation there was a message about a failed to upload firmware, so I did not expect that something was loaded there. Is it possible that there is some kind of backup before overwriting?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Vit G on February 12, 2023, 08:35:26 pm
From the SD card recovery instructions, please see below pic with the location of the SD card holder.
It is likely the footprint is still there to be populated with a new SD card holder.
Hi!
 No. 05-00-xx-xx-xx hardware fundamentally different from the previous one. everything is done differently there.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on February 12, 2023, 08:54:01 pm
Nobody finds it weird how it's even possible to install a firmware that is too old to support the hardware? Preventing this must be trivial.  :palm:
No but I do find it weird someone would fuck with roll back firmware to the earliest public release and not read the 2.01.01.17R5 release notes that say this:
NOTE: After being updated to this release, the generator cannot be backward to previous releases any more

 |O
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: rf-loop on February 12, 2023, 09:40:32 pm
Hello! I have a 2042x after trying to downgrade the firmware (16R2) stopped loading. On the screen only a Logo presents. how to bring it back to life now? Help please!
I saw on Dave's video how to restore 2122x using sd card. Where can I get the files for it for the 2042x model? perhaps this would help me.

UPD
My 2042X is 05-00-00-46-00 hw version. Dont have SD slot on board. it seems i need USB recover stick ?

UPD2
After about 10 minutes, a message appeared on the screen:  "No external clock source!".
 I connected an external 10MHz from my HP8920A and repeated the power-up procedure again. It did not help. The message reappeared after 10 min.

 The HL1 LED near CPU does not light up.

UPD3
 Thanks  for Siglent support. I make restore USB stick but this not helped .  I see some numerous errors in the bootlog. I am attaching it here.
 Need opinion from more experienced people  :'(


Can you tell where from you get this FW version 16R2 and why. Least Siglent do not share this version anymore.  Oldest shared is 17R5. Because can not downgrade more backwards from this or more new versions.

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on February 12, 2023, 10:19:46 pm
Can you tell where from you get this FW version 16R2 and why. Least Siglent do not share this version anymore.  Oldest shared is 17R5. Because can not downgrade more backwards from this or more new versions.
Older are available on HQ website:
https://int.siglent.com/download/firmwares/?ProId=5
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: thinkfat on February 13, 2023, 11:03:12 am
Nobody finds it weird how it's even possible to install a firmware that is too old to support the hardware? Preventing this must be trivial.  :palm:
No but I do find it weird someone would fuck with roll back firmware to the earliest public release and not read the 2.01.01.17R5 release notes that say this:
NOTE: After being updated to this release, the generator cannot be backward to previous releases any more

 |O

I would read (and implement) that as "After you have installed 2.01.01.17R5, you CAN NOT downgrade any more". I would not assume "You MUST NOT downgrade any more or you will brick your device".
Quite honestly, Siglent have eff'd up here big time. The way out is not to tell the customer that he's stupid.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Vit G on February 13, 2023, 05:51:42 pm
Hi!
I found something interesting while reading UART. Here is a snippet of the USB initialization dump. With the USB stick inserted, I see this:
Code: [Select]
======RESET USB======
(Re)start USB...
USB0:   USB EHCI 1.00
scanning bus 0 for devices... 2 USB Device(s) found
USB1:   ULPI request timed out
zynq ULPI viewport init failed
lowlevel init failed
       scanning usb for storage devices... 1 Storage Device(s) found
Copying Linux from USB to RAM...


reading boot_uImage
** Unable to read file boot_uImage **
** Unrecognized filesystem type **
reading
.txt
** Unable to read file sdg6000x_udiskEnv.txt **
** Invalid partition 2 **
** Bad device usb 1 **
** Bad device usb 1 **
** Bad device usb 1 **
** Bad device usb 2 **
** Bad device usb 2 **
** Bad device usb 2 **
** Bad device usb 3 **
** Bad device usb 3 **
** Bad device usb 3 **
Copying Linux from NAND flash to RAM...

It's a mystery to me why the device starts looking for download files from the sdg6000? This is apparently some kind of rudiment in the firmware remaining in it.

I have a 2042x recovery file from the SD card. it has a file uEnv.txt. I just for the sake of interest changed its name to what the device asks for : sdg6000x_udiskEnv.txt. And now I see it:
Code: [Select]
======RESET USB======
(Re)start USB...
USB0:   USB EHCI 1.00
scanning bus 0 for devices... 2 USB Device(s) found
USB1:   ULPI request timed out
zynq ULPI viewport init failed
lowlevel init failed
       scanning usb for storage devices... 1 Storage Device(s) found
Copying Linux from USB to RAM...
reading boot_uImage
** Unable to read file boot_uImage **
** Unrecognized filesystem type **
reading sdg6000x_udiskEnv.txt
2292 bytes read in 22 ms (101.6 KiB/s)
Loaded environment from sdg6000x_udiskEnv.txt
Importing environment from SD or UDISK ...
Running uenvcmd ...

But the download apparently stops there. nothing else happens.
I have an idea that a properly prepared usb media with the right files can bring the device to life. but I don't know what he wants.
1.The important thing is that usb port still works!
2. which of the files on the usb stick should be renamed to boot_uImage?

 UPD:   UART keyboard is also working!

 result of help command:
Code: [Select]
zynq-uboot> Hit any key to stop autoboot:  0
Unknown command 'Hit' - try 'help'
zynq-uboot> zynq-uboot>
Unknown command 'zynq-uboot>' - try 'help'
zynq-uboot> nknown command 'ry 'help'
> zynq-uboot> help
> ?       - alias for 'help'
> base    - print or set address offset
> bdinfo  - print Board Info structure
> boot    - boot default, i.e., run 'bootcmd'
> bootd   - boot default, i.e., run 'bootcmd'
> bootelf - Boot from an ELF image in memory
> bootm   - boot application image from memory
> bootp   - boot image via network using BOOTP/TFTP protocol
> bootvx  - Boot vxWorks from an ELF image
> bootz   - boot Linux zImage image from memory
> clk     - CLK sub-system
> cmp     - memory compare
> coninfo - print console devices and information
> cp      - memorycopy
> crc32   - checksum calculation
> dcache  - enle or disable data cae
> dfu     - Device Firmware Upgde
> dhcp    - boot image via networksing DHCP/TFTP protocol
> echo    echo args to console
> editenv - edit environment variableenv     - environment handlincommands
> exit    - exit script
> ext2load- load binary file from a Ext2 filsystem
> ext2ls  - list les in a directory (default /)
> ext4load- load binry file from a Ext4 filesystem
> ext4ls  - list les in a directory (default /)
> ext4write- create  file in the root directory
> false   - do nothi, unsuccessfully
> fatinfo - print information aut filesystem
> fatload - load binaryfile from a dos filesystem
> fatls   - list fes in a directory (default /)
> fatwrite- write fie into a dos filesystem
> fdt     - flattened dece tree utility commands
> fpga    - loadablFPGA image support
> go      - start application t address 'addr'
> help    - print comnd description/usage
> i2c     - I2C sub-systemcache  - enable or disable instruction cche
> iminfo  - print header information for application image
> imxtrac- extract a part of a multi-image
> itest   - return true/flse on integer compare
> loadb   - load biny file over serial line (kermit mode)
> loads   load S-Record file over serial line
> loadx   - load binar file over serial line (xmodem mode)
> loady  - load binary file over serial line (ymodem mode)
> loop    infinite loop on address range
> md      - memory display
> d5check- check MD5 message digest
> mdio  - MDIO utility commands
> i     - MII utility commands
> mm    - memory modify (auto-incremeing address)
> mmc     - MMC susystem
> mmcinfo - display MMC info
> mw      - memoy write (fill)
> nand    NAND sub-system
> nboot   - b from NAND device
> nfs     - bt image via network usinNFS protocol
> nm      - memoryodify (constant address)
> ping    - send ICMP ECH_REQUEST to network host
> printenv- print vironment variables
> reset   - Perform RESET of t CPU
> resetusb- reset usb
> run     - rn commands in an environment varile
> saveenv - save enonment variables to persistent storage
> setenv   set environment variables
> showup  - turn on led to showthat update has finishd
> showvar - pnt local hushshell variables
> sleep   - delay executiofor some time
> source  - run script from emory
> spl     - SPL configuration
> test  - minimal test like /bin/sh
> tfboot- boot image via networksing TFTP protocol
> tftpput - TFTP t command, for uploading files to a server
> thordon- TIZEN "THOR" downloader
> true    - do nothing, successfuy
> usb     - USB sub-system
> usbboo - boot from USB device
> version -rint monitor, compiler anlinker version
> zynq-uboot>
 


 UPD2

 Wow. i can switch on DHCP!

Code: [Select]
zynq-uboot> dhcp
Gem.e000b000:30 is connected to Gem.e000b000.  Reconnecting to Gem.e000b000
Gem.e000b000 Waiting for PHY auto negotiation to complete.... done
BOOTP broadcast 1
DHCP client bound to address 192.168.1.176
*** Warning: no boot file name; using 'C0A801B0.img'
Using Gem.e000b000 device
TFTP from server 10.11.0.30; our IP address is 192.168.1.176; sending through gateway 192.168.1.1
Filename 'C0A801B0.img'.
Load address: 0x0
Loading: T T T T T T T T T T
Retry count exceeded; starting again

i think i have chance!  need help!
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: thinkfat on February 13, 2023, 08:31:07 pm
It if you extracted the "uImage" from a more recent firmware update file, this could be used as boot file for TFTP. But this will only get you the linux kernel and maybe an initial RAM root filesystem (aka "initrd". However, with all other options exhausted, this is what might get you a step further.

Maybe you can use some of content of the USB recovery image?

BTW - the reason this thing believes it is "SDG6000x" - they might share the same application processor platform. I have looked around but didn't find a tear down of the SDG6000x that looked under the heatsink. Shariar from The Signal Path also only glossed over it. But as far as I understood, Siglent seems to consolidate their hardware platforms and we have seen the Zynq-7000 SoC pop up in quite a number of devices from them. Like, the 05-xxx SDG2000X, the SDS2000X scopes, and possibly the SDG6000X also meanwhile got a hardware "facelift" to use this platform.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Vit G on February 13, 2023, 09:45:37 pm
  Yes.  I also came to this idea. And now I would like to know if it is possible that the recovery disk for HW version 05-xx-xx-xx should contain other files that are not compatible with the old recovery disk. in other words, my bootloader actually works, but I don't give it the files it needs to recover. Is it possible to ask the support service to clarify this case? There is an opinion that the recovery disk for version 05-00 should be different, not the same as for older HW versions?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: TimLamborn on February 15, 2023, 08:14:55 am
Hey - has anyone had any success with sending waveforms via SCPI?

Your supposed to send the waveform file using binary bytes.
Given the following points: [0x0000, 0x0000, 0x4000, 0x4000]
You send the following command:"C1:WVDT WVNM,wave_name,WAVEDATA,\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x40\x00\x40\x00" (I am using python notation to describe literal bytes).

However - when sending the following wave: [0x0000, 0x0000, 0x400a, 0x4000] - the resulting binary string has a newline character in it (0x0A)!
This does exactly what you'd expect - ends the command causing the waveform to be truncated.

Usually this is solved by specifying the length, using an escape sequence, or encoding the bytes into something like hex pairs.
Does anyone know how this is supposed to work for the SGD2000X?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bicycleguy on February 15, 2023, 04:15:07 pm
You have to encode it.  See these examples:
https://siglentna.com/application-notes/sdg2000x-series/ (https://siglentna.com/application-notes/sdg2000x-series/)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: TimLamborn on February 15, 2023, 09:40:04 pm
I'm following their example here:
https://siglentna.com/application-note/programming-example-sdg-waveform-creation-with-python-and-sockets-no-visa/

Running this example directly seems to have the same problem.
I get the expected output initially, but as soon as I introduce a 0x0A anywhere in wave_points, then the written wave gets truncated.

For example:
wave_points = [0x0000, 0x0000, 0x0000, 0x0000, 0x0a40, 0x0040, 0x0040, 0x0040]
wave1.bin then contains (hex): 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 0a40 00 40 00 40 00 40

data.decode('latin1') on line 75 doesn't actually do much here - merely transform the bytes into a string. The 0x0a just becomes a '\n'.

Have I missed something obvious?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bicycleguy on February 15, 2023, 10:29:13 pm
Don't remember where I googled this but to work with Python3:
replace   binascii.a2b_hex(b)  with:  binascii.unhexlify(b)

and maybe your issue is in the example add:  ,encoding='latin1'
like this:
SocketSend(s,"C1:WVDT WVNM,wave1,FREQ,2000.0,AMPL,3.0,OFST,0.0,PHASE,0.0,WAVEDATA,%s"%(data),encoding='latin1')       
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on February 15, 2023, 10:34:15 pm
I'm following their example here:
https://siglentna.com/application-note/programming-example-sdg-waveform-creation-with-python-and-sockets-no-visa/

Running this example directly seems to have the same problem.
I get the expected output initially, but as soon as I introduce a 0x0A anywhere in wave_points, then the written wave gets truncated.

For example:
wave_points = [0x0000, 0x0000, 0x0000, 0x0000, 0x0a40, 0x0040, 0x0040, 0x0040]
wave1.bin then contains (hex): 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 0a40 00 40 00 40 00 40

data.decode('latin1') on line 75 doesn't actually do much here - merely transform the bytes into a string. The 0x0a just becomes a '\n'.

Have I missed something obvious?
Tim, I'll make contact by email with some stuff.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: JDubU on February 16, 2023, 04:41:35 pm
I have hardware version 02-01-00-40-00.
I am not able to update firmware to 2.01.01.37R3.  Gets mostly through the update and then briefly shows "Update Failed" before going back to file browser.
Flash drive is recognized properly and I can reliably upgrade/downgrade from it, without problem, between firmware versions 2.01.01.35R3B2, 2.01.01.35R3B1 and 2.01.01.23R8.

I notice that the new 2.01.01.37R3 file is more than twice the size of the earlier ones (~39MB vs ~15MB).  I deleted all user files from the C: drive and the file manager shows it's capacity as 397B/85M.  Also tried upgrading from the various older firmware versions directly to 37R3 without success.

Any ideas?

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Vit G on February 16, 2023, 04:54:25 pm
Most likely, firmware 37R3 was made for the 05-xx-xx-xx-xx board and will not work on others, just like earlier firmware will not work on 05-xx... It was necessary to give this device a new index so that there would be no confusion. Also I can't use the recovery disk because it doesn't fit 05-xx HW and I can't explain it to the support team. I will have to wait a while until they guess to make a new recovery disk and explain to users that these are completely different devices with the same name  |O
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tv84 on February 16, 2023, 05:32:38 pm
I notice that the new 2.01.01.37R3 file is more than twice the size of the earlier ones (~39MB vs ~15MB).  I deleted all user files from the C: drive and the file manager shows it's capacity as 397B/85M.  Also tried upgrading from the various older firmware versions directly to 37R3 without success.

The new FW has twice the size because the same file contains the necessary files to both HW configurations now in use.

It was necessary to give this device a new index so that there would be no confusion.

They could have done that but it would make people think that the device is "totally different". They decide which files to flash in the update script, depending on the device's HW.

It should work OK.

Maybe, as you say, tautech doesnt yet have the recovery disk for the new HW.

See also here (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg2000x-firmware-hardware-software-versions/msg4574860/#msg4574860).
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Vit G on February 16, 2023, 05:53:14 pm
I hope that the problem with the recovery disk will be resolved soon. However, I was alarmed why JDubU could not update the FW ?
Quote
See also here (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg2000x-firmware-hardware-software-versions/msg4574860/#msg4574860).
To: tv84
 Thanks! This is very interesting info.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Vit G on February 17, 2023, 01:30:34 pm
 Good news!
 Siglent support finally figured out my problem and sent a recovery disk with 37R3 firmware. My SDG came to life!  :D
 And the bad news: the methods of hacking described on the forum do not work with this hardware  :(
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: blurpy on February 17, 2023, 05:08:15 pm
Good news!
 Siglent support finally figured out my problem and sent a recovery disk with 37R3 firmware. My SDG came to life!  :D
 And the bad news: the methods of hacking described on the forum do not work with this hardware  :(
Excellent!

Which guide did you follow?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Vit G on February 17, 2023, 05:13:39 pm
It didn't need guidance. I just connected the usb stick with restore files to the SDG and turned it on. It did it all by itself :D
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: blurpy on February 17, 2023, 05:16:03 pm
Sorry, I was unspecific. I meant which guide did not work for hacking the new hardware?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Vit G on February 17, 2023, 05:30:56 pm
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg2042x-hack-door-closed/msg4018144/#msg4018144 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg2042x-hack-door-closed/msg4018144/#msg4018144)
and
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg2042x-hack-door-closed/msg4112236/#msg4112236 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg2042x-hack-door-closed/msg4112236/#msg4112236)

Because access via SCPI is now impossible to get even using hack by   telnet_SDG2000X.ADS file   
I did everything according to the instructions but SDG does not accept commands
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: blurpy on February 17, 2023, 05:39:49 pm
I would be extremely surprised if Siglent disabled SCPI support on the new hardware. I'm guessing you made a mistake somewhere in following the guide. The ADS should not be necessary.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Vit G on February 17, 2023, 05:42:09 pm
No, the normal SCPI control commands are most likely available. Commands that interfere with the file system are not available, I think.
I'm not familiar with SCPI. SDG accepted the *IDN? command, but the MD5 and MCBD commands remained without reaction. May be I was doing something wrong.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: blurpy on February 17, 2023, 05:44:43 pm
You do not need to interfere with the file system. Just follow the guide you linked to where you generate a license code :)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Vit G on February 17, 2023, 07:23:53 pm
Wow! I take back my words. Now I used Putty instead of the Windows telnet console and I managed to enter the code!
I apologize for giving incorrect information earlier!  :-//
At  120 MHz, SDG shows excellent accuracy. (500mV Vpp signal). I see a slight phase shift (the length of the cables is identical). In the Rigol generator there is a phase synchronization button, but in the SDG I don’t see this?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Martin72 on February 19, 2023, 12:59:19 am
Hi,

Use "phase coupling", default setting is OFF...
(Page 111 (121 on my pdf viewer))of the user manual)

https://www.batronix.com/files/Siglent/Funktionsgeneratoren/SDG2000X/SDG2000X_UserManual_EN.pdf (https://www.batronix.com/files/Siglent/Funktionsgeneratoren/SDG2000X/SDG2000X_UserManual_EN.pdf)

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=1719998;image)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Vit G on February 19, 2023, 07:33:03 am
 Hi, Martin72!
 This is a little different from what I was expecting. I also found an EqPhase button, an analogue of which is in the Rigol (and it works in Rigol).
 All that the shifting function does is adjust the phase of the second channel but does not calibrate it in any way.
 That`s what happens: https://youtu.be/m08x7QHvA24

 Manual says that EqPhase should eliminate phase mismatch.
 Maybe need some kind of calibration in the service menu?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Martin72 on February 19, 2023, 09:53:02 am
Hi,

Test it a few minutes ago, I took the phase mode to "deviation" and adjust it, see pic.




Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Vit G on February 19, 2023, 10:51:43 am
 But then you see the same value of phase shifting in the main window. What's the point of walking so far when it can be done here?
 This problem definitely had to be solved by the EqPhase button.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: fkoran on February 22, 2023, 08:31:44 pm
I'm following their example here:
https://siglentna.com/application-note/programming-example-sdg-waveform-creation-with-python-and-sockets-no-visa/

Running this example directly seems to have the same problem.
I get the expected output initially, but as soon as I introduce a 0x0A anywhere in wave_points, then the written wave gets truncated.

For example:
wave_points = [0x0000, 0x0000, 0x0000, 0x0000, 0x0a40, 0x0040, 0x0040, 0x0040]
wave1.bin then contains (hex): 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 0a40 00 40 00 40 00 40

data.decode('latin1') on line 75 doesn't actually do much here - merely transform the bytes into a string. The 0x0a just becomes a '\n'.

Have I missed something obvious?
Tim, I'll make contact by email with some stuff.

I'm having the same issue with arbitrary waveforms including 0x0a ("\n") over the TCP socket interface. Let's get in touch?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on February 22, 2023, 10:05:56 pm
I'm following their example here:
https://siglentna.com/application-note/programming-example-sdg-waveform-creation-with-python-and-sockets-no-visa/

Running this example directly seems to have the same problem.
I get the expected output initially, but as soon as I introduce a 0x0A anywhere in wave_points, then the written wave gets truncated.

For example:
wave_points = [0x0000, 0x0000, 0x0000, 0x0000, 0x0a40, 0x0040, 0x0040, 0x0040]
wave1.bin then contains (hex): 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 0a40 00 40 00 40 00 40

data.decode('latin1') on line 75 doesn't actually do much here - merely transform the bytes into a string. The 0x0a just becomes a '\n'.

Have I missed something obvious?
Tim, I'll make contact by email with some stuff.

I'm having the same issue with arbitrary waveforms including 0x0a ("\n") over the TCP socket interface. Let's get in touch?
This was the feedback from HQ Tech support:
I think the customer uses the Socket communication. Is it right?

The '0A' is the terminating symbol. When the data inlcude '0A', it will stop the transmission.
I advise to use the usbtmc or tcpip by visa at the moment.

We will try to solve this problem.

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: fkoran on February 24, 2023, 05:28:33 pm
I'm following their example here:
https://siglentna.com/application-note/programming-example-sdg-waveform-creation-with-python-and-sockets-no-visa/

Running this example directly seems to have the same problem.
I get the expected output initially, but as soon as I introduce a 0x0A anywhere in wave_points, then the written wave gets truncated.

For example:
wave_points = [0x0000, 0x0000, 0x0000, 0x0000, 0x0a40, 0x0040, 0x0040, 0x0040]
wave1.bin then contains (hex): 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 0a40 00 40 00 40 00 40

data.decode('latin1') on line 75 doesn't actually do much here - merely transform the bytes into a string. The 0x0a just becomes a '\n'.

Have I missed something obvious?
Tim, I'll make contact by email with some stuff.

I'm having the same issue with arbitrary waveforms including 0x0a ("\n") over the TCP socket interface. Let's get in touch?
This was the feedback from HQ Tech support:
I think the customer uses the Socket communication. Is it right?

The '0A' is the terminating symbol. When the data inlcude '0A', it will stop the transmission.
I advise to use the usbtmc or tcpip by visa at the moment.

We will try to solve this problem.


Thanks! Has anyone had success using usbtmc mode in pyvisa? If so, what version and configuration are you using? I see that binary writes to a USB:INST session never terminate as though pyvisa isn't asserting termination correctly
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on February 24, 2023, 07:15:12 pm
Has anyone had success using usbtmc mode in pyvisa? If so, what version and configuration are you using? I see that binary writes to a USB:INST session never terminate as though pyvisa isn't asserting termination correctly
Have you looked at the resources on the US website ?
https://siglentna.com/application-note/16-bit-step-arb-sdgx/
Title: Issue with the SDG at high frequencies
Post by: adacsaba on March 28, 2023, 03:37:53 pm
Hello guys. Not sure if this issue was raised before, if so, sorry about duplicate. If not, can someone throw an opinion , please ?

Just acquired a "matching" pair of SDS1104X-E -- SDG 2042X specifically, for the Bode plot feature and the ease of hackability, didn't go for the higher end models, for this kind of equipment in general is like 50-100% pricier in this country than the advertised price by manufacturer. And obviously didn't want to wait 50 days for direct order from China ( but even if i did, the difference would be marginal, killer customs taxes, darn EU is so fckd up...).

Unlocked successfully the SDG to 120 MHz, works, but the signal level starts to drop from 80 MHz, falling to half at 120 MHz. I have the HW revision 02-xxxx, not the 05-xxxx, brand new, under warranty, etc., freshly imported through the Netherlands trade point. Not sure why it isn't the 05 version though.

I did verify the signal levels using different cables, one that should work up to the GHz ranges. Tested with the unlocked SDS and an older analog Hitachi scope. May not be mV accurate, but still the same proportianal decrease in signal level, from 80 to 120 MHz, the signal gradually drops to half.

Not sure how to proceed. Is this something eligible for Siglent support, or do you guys have any suggestion ? Maybe need to solder in or replace some components at output stage, if so, does anyone have some isntructions for ? It feels very much like a low pass filter , maybe a hardware bug in this model ?

Thanks in advance.

PS. great forum with great people all around. Practically i've made my choice on the purchase solely based on this forum and Dave's videos, the alternatives would have been models from Rigol, Hantek and Owon. Siglent had the best price-performance report (that includes the unlocking factor) and fastest shipment.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: JDubU on March 28, 2023, 04:20:44 pm
What happens if you set the output voltage to 1V peak to peak?
Title: Re: Issue with the SDG at high frequencies
Post by: Roger Need on March 28, 2023, 05:53:53 pm
Hello guys. Not sure if this issue was raised before, if so, sorry about duplicate. If not, can someone throw an opinion , please ?


Unlocked successfully the SDG to 120 MHz, works, but the signal level starts to drop from 80 MHz, falling to half at 120 MHz. I have the HW revision 02-xxxx, not the 05-xxxx, brand new, under warranty, etc., freshly imported through the Netherlands trade point. Not sure why it isn't the 05 version though.

I did verify the signal levels using different cables, one that should work up to the GHz ranges. Tested with the unlocked SDS and an older analog Hitachi scope. May not be mV accurate, but still the same proportianal decrease in signal level, from 80 to 120 MHz, the signal gradually drops to half.


I have a 2042X unlocked and it works fine up to 120 MHz. when measured using a 200 MHz. scope.

You are using a  SDS1104X-E which is a 100 MHz. scope so it is not surprising that you are 3 db down at 120 MHz.

Quote from Siglent..... https://siglentna.com/operating-tip/determine-bandwidth-scope-require-application/ (https://siglentna.com/operating-tip/determine-bandwidth-scope-require-application/)
Quote
Oscilloscope bandwidth is defined as the frequency at which the amplitude of the observed signal drops by -3 dB (or drops to 70.7% of its actual value) as we increase the test signal’s frequency as plotted on the amplitude-frequency characteristic curve (Figure 1).

Roger
Title: Re: Issue with the SDG at high frequencies
Post by: JeremyC on March 28, 2023, 07:08:40 pm
I did verify the signal levels using different cables, one that should work up to the GHz ranges. Tested with the unlocked SDS and an older analog Hitachi scope. May not be mV accurate, but still the same proportianal decrease in signal level, from 80 to 120 MHz, the signal gradually drops to half.

If you use Hi-Z output, you should use scope probes and not a coaxial cable. If you want to use coaxial cable, then you should set generator output to 50 Ohm and have 50 Ohm pass trough terminator in the scope input.

Check this link:
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_jxh0Qe_FY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_jxh0Qe_FY)

I'm guessing your generator and scope are fine.

Title: Re: Issue with the SDG at high frequencies
Post by: tautech on March 28, 2023, 07:39:23 pm
Hello guys.
Welcome to the forum.

Quote
Unlocked successfully the SDG to 120 MHz, works, but the signal level starts to drop from 80 MHz, falling to half at 120 MHz. I have the HW revision 02-xxxx, not the 05-xxxx, brand new, under warranty, etc., freshly imported through the Netherlands trade point. Not sure why it isn't the 05 version though.

I did verify the signal levels using different cables, one that should work up to the GHz ranges. Tested with the unlocked SDS and an older analog Hitachi scope. May not be mV accurate, but still the same proportianal decrease in signal level, from 80 to 120 MHz, the signal gradually drops to half.

You can't check amplitude flatness for a 120 MHz AWG with a 100 MHz scope.

Please also check the datasheet for the output spec which is:
+ 0.4 dB 100~120 MHz (Included), 50Ω load, 2.5Vpp, compare to 10kHz Sine
Meaning, it can only be tested to meet spec in that manner. ^^^
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: adacsaba on March 28, 2023, 09:33:16 pm
Thank you gentlemen, that was quite quick...

Acknowledged, and will follow both your advice. Don't have yet the no advanced cabling stuff, i will purchase a few terminators, splitters, wtf anyways. The default probe's 100 MHz only, so likely need to get a batch of higher frequency ones, saw some 300 MHz probes recently.

That being said. On this very forum there are claims and claims the SDS1104X-E does unlock to true 200 MHZ SDS1204X-E (or possibly the unreleased 1254X-E) . It's claimed the limit is all soft, no fiddling needed with the input circuitry. I know there is a different forum to that, but maybe it doesn't unlock after all.

Are you absolutely adamant on the fact SDG2042X does indeed unlock to 120 MHz fully, even with this version of the hardware ? Unfortunately i do have two variables here :) plus the cabling. Plus the somewhat non-existing experience with this specific hardware set.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: adacsaba on March 28, 2023, 09:44:22 pm
What happens if you set the output voltage to 1V peak to peak?

It behaves same regardless of the peak voltage set. In case of 1V p2p i get around 400 and a wee bit of mV. It's basically a 3dB attenuation ( half ), as the other gentleman pointed it out. I did also a more thorough scan and there is a zone where actually i get higher voltage, looks like a resonance area.

Will need to delve into this more, RF has it's own magic, credits go to Tesla  :) :) :)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Martin72 on March 28, 2023, 09:45:20 pm
Quote
Are you absolutely adamant on the fact SDG2042X does indeed unlock to 120 MHz fully

Yepp...

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=1749305;image)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: adacsaba on March 28, 2023, 11:39:31 pm
Just for our fun, can you please do a set of measurements, at 2.5Vpp , say 10, 20,40,50,80 and 100 MHz ?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: adacsaba on March 29, 2023, 01:17:10 am
First, thank you all so very much for the quick and most helpful advices. Most pleasant experience on a tech forum, especially when the smartest people are on.

Actually, i've found what the issue was. Unrelated to the SDG, which actually turns out perfect :) 2.64 Vpp@1kHZ, 2.56Vpp@60MHz, 2.52Vpp@120Mhz, that's like less than a dB. At the very least i have my doubts settled.

As for the issue, it's more of an FYI, for it's off topic actually. I think there were some engineering models in the SDS 1xx4X-E series, ultimately un-released by Siglent. So it happens i had, and forgotten, the SDS unlocked to 1254X-E. This model doesn't seem to exist in their catalog, hence i assume it was some engineering sample, 250 MHz BW with different input circuit. In 1254X-E mode the input filter, attenuator, wtf logic gets all screwed up. Sorry about that, please give me some amnesty here :) :) :) Turned it back to an 1204X-E, works like a charm.

The handmade "terminated transmission line" from a 1.2m piece of token ring cable, soldered BNC from a decommisioned balun and 2x100 Ohm 1% metal film resistors in parallel, turned out quite well actually.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Vit G on April 09, 2023, 11:59:12 am
but.. 50 0hm resistor +50 ohm cable is 25 ohm ? Can it be more correct to put a resistor at the end of the cable and not at the beginning?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Roger Need on April 13, 2023, 10:27:26 pm
It would be nice if others running the latest firmware version (V2.01.01.37R3 released past month) could check for the frequency counter bug and post their hardware version and results, so we can report it to siglent for them to fix it.

To check for the bug, just run the frequency counter:
Code: [Select]
Utility -> Counter -> State "ON"
The device should start to feel laggy/unresponsive as the time passes and once "num" reaches between 700-1200 counts the device freezes.

To speed up the process you can enable fast counting under setup:
Code: [Select]
Utility -> Counter -> Setup -> Type "Fast"

A firmware update (V2.01.01.37R6) to correct the counter bug was released by Siglent on April 11, 2023

https://siglentna.com/service-and-support/firmware-software/waveform-generators/#sdg2000x-series (https://siglentna.com/service-and-support/firmware-software/waveform-generators/#sdg2000x-series)

Release notes below....

(http://)

I installed it today on an 2042X that had been upgraded to a 2122X and it went smoothly.  Initial testing showed teh bug is fixed and other functions work as before.

Roger
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: JOFlaherty on April 14, 2023, 06:46:11 am
Thanks for the pointer to the fix. I installed it tonight, and have been playing with the counter for a while, and it has never become unresponsive or even slowed down.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: JDubU on April 14, 2023, 02:23:33 pm
Just like firmware V2.01.01.37R3, V2.01.01.37R6 fails to install on my SDG2042X (hardware version 02-01-00-40-00).
Are they only for the newest hardware versions?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on April 14, 2023, 08:05:06 pm
Just like firmware V2.01.01.37R3, V2.01.01.37R6 fails to install on my SDG2042X (hardware version 02-01-00-40-00).
Are they only for the newest hardware versions?
The release notes don't indicate such:
https://siglentna.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2023/04/SDG2000X-Firmware-Revise-History-Update-Instructions.pdf

Me thinks your most likely problem is with your USB stick, it's too large and/or incorrectly formatted.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: CustomEngineerer on April 14, 2023, 09:14:02 pm
Both V2.01.01.37R3, V2.01.01.37R6 installed fine on my SDG2042X hardware version 01-07-00-40-00 (hardware version was 01-07-00-35-00 when I was on 37R3, it bumped up to the new one on installing 37R6).
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: JDubU on April 15, 2023, 02:41:18 am
The flash drives that I've used can reliably upgrade and downgrade versions of firmware prior to 37R3.  They are 64MB and 128MB FAT formatted. I've also tried ExFAT formatted 4GB, 8GB and 16GB flash drives without success.  They all identify, select the file properly and start the update, but then fail part way through.

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on April 15, 2023, 03:55:45 am
Try FAT32 with 4k clusters. Max size = 8GB
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: JDubU on April 15, 2023, 05:22:50 am
Just tried:
4GB Flash drive. Deleted existing volume.  Added new simple volume.  (Full) formatted FAT32, 4k clusters.  Copied 37r6 firmware file to it.
Drive inserted in SDG2042X USB port (detected).  System --> Firmware Update.  Selected firmware file.  Recall. 
Shows progress bar:  ...10% ...20%...Update Failed.
Returns to file browser screen.

What am I missing?

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on April 15, 2023, 07:14:58 am
Just tried:
4GB Flash drive. Deleted existing volume.  Added new simple volume.  (Full) formatted FAT32, 4k clusters.  Copied 37r6 firmware file to it.
Drive inserted in SDG2042X USB port (detected).  System --> Firmware Update.  Selected firmware file.  Recall. 
Shows progress bar:  ...10% ...20%...Update Failed.
Returns to file browser screen.

What am I missing?
Have you another under 8GB to try ?

With the recoveries I help with often something with what should be a suitable drive won't let the process complete, don't ask me why but too many times I have seen it with owners not able to proceed when they should be able to.

All I can suggest is to format again, even just a quick format should work and add the 37r6 firmware .ADS file into the root.
Should that fail try a new USB stick....sometimes purchasing a new one fixes these issues....don't ask me why.  :-//
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Svuppe on April 15, 2023, 11:06:23 am
Just like firmware V2.01.01.37R3, V2.01.01.37R6 fails to install on my SDG2042X (hardware version 02-01-00-40-00).
I have just updated my SDG2042X with the exact same hardware version. No problems whatsoever.
I used an old 32GB USB stick I just had nearby. It happens to be FAT32 formatted with 512 byte cluster size.

Even though it is many years since I last heard of it, could it be that you have a bad download of the firmware file?
The SHA256 sum of the ADS file here (that worked) is:
e492c7d22dc251f2d3a8243db0d6bdeaf7c8cc88ba7ee572f06a65195514d5d1
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: JDubU on April 15, 2023, 02:09:37 pm
The SHA256 checksum is correct.  Thanks for that info.

I don't think it's a flash drive issue. 
I just used the same flash drive to successfully go back from 2.01.01.35R3B2 to 2.01.01.23R8 and then tried to go up to 2.01.01.37R6 which failed. Going back up to 2.01.01.35R3B2 from 2.01.01.23R8 succeeded.  It just won't go later than 2.01.01.35R3B2.

I wonder if there is some internal file that is corrupted or read only that the latest firmware updates are trying to modify?  Is there a log file that can be accessed to see where the firmware update is failing?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Vit G on April 15, 2023, 02:14:55 pm
My 2042X (up to 2122) with version 05.xx was updated without problems. I used noname stick 8GB with 4KB cluster.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: St66666 on June 05, 2023, 04:39:49 pm
I don't know when this started and I'm pretty sure everything was fine before, but now if I select 1KHz 1 volt peak to peak signal on the SDG2042X I confirmed it with 2 scopes that I indeed have 2V peak to peak coming out of the generator.

The software version is 2.01.01.37R3

hardware version 02-02-00-40-00

It is changed to be a SDG2122X a while back, but I don't recall seeing higher voltages earlier.
There is a possibility that I missed it after the firmware update, but I think I would have noticed it sooner.

Anybody had issues with the amplitude being double what it should be?

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Performa01 on June 05, 2023, 04:44:32 pm
I don't know when this started and I'm pretty sure everything was fine before, but now if I select 1KHz 1 volt peak to peak signal on the SDG2042X I confirmed it with 2 scopes that I indeed have 2V peak to peak coming out of the generator.

The software version is 2.01.01.37R3

hardware version 02-02-00-40-00

It is changed to be a SDG2122X a while back, but I don't recall seeing higher voltages earlier.
There is a possibility that I missed it after the firmware update, but I think I would have noticed it sooner.

Anybody had issues with the amplitude being double what it should be?

Set the output impedance to High-Z when high-Z probing is applied.
 
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Martin72 on June 05, 2023, 04:55:54 pm
A classic... 8)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: St66666 on June 05, 2023, 05:05:27 pm
I don't know when this started and I'm pretty sure everything was fine before, but now if I select 1KHz 1 volt peak to peak signal on the SDG2042X I confirmed it with 2 scopes that I indeed have 2V peak to peak coming out of the generator.

The software version is 2.01.01.37R3

hardware version 02-02-00-40-00

It is changed to be a SDG2122X a while back, but I don't recall seeing higher voltages earlier.
There is a possibility that I missed it after the firmware update, but I think I would have noticed it sooner.

Anybody had issues with the amplitude being double what it should be?

Set the output impedance to High-Z when high-Z probing is applied.

Damn ...
How on earth I did not noticed it before or did I forget all about it?
Thanks
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Twollis on July 07, 2023, 09:27:59 am
Hello  i just bought a brand new Siglent SDG2042X  and found that i can upgrade it to 120Mhz but i saw that there is 2 hardware versions can u upgrade to 120mhz the newer version and how easy and safe is it? This is first time doing something like this so i am completle clueless.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: MathWizard on July 08, 2023, 01:42:13 am
To use the Bode plot on my sds1204x-e, with my sdg2042, can you do it with just the regular high impedance scope probes, measuring just the input and output of a circuit ? Or do you always have to have the AWG tied to the scope, and all with 50ohm coax and terminators and all that stuff ? Like in this video.

I still don't have any of that stuff, I might have a M-M 50ohm cable if 1 came with the 2042x. Besides that, I only have the cables that they sell with $20 scopes, with BNC on 1 end, and aligator clips on the other, and I think they are just sub 1 ohm wires.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbuuTxHicOI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbuuTxHicOI)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Performa01 on July 08, 2023, 05:58:23 am
To use the Bode plot on my sds1204x-e, with my sdg2042, can you do it with just the regular high impedance scope probes, measuring just the input and output of a circuit ?
Of course you can use whatever probing fits the bill. There are settings to tell the Bode Plot about the impedance of the DUT interfaces. In 99% of the practical cases this will either be High-Z (passive high impedance probes) or 50 ohms (laboratory standard).

Or do you always have to have the AWG tied to the scope, and all with 50ohm coax and terminators and all that stuff ?
You always have the AWG "tied to the scope", either via ethernet or USB.

I still don't have any of that stuff, I might have a M-M 50ohm cable if 1 came with the 2042x. Besides that, I only have the cables that they sell with $20 scopes, with BNC on 1 end, and aligator clips on the other, and I think they are just sub 1 ohm wires.
You seem to have a misconception with the 50 ohms standard, I'm afraid. It's not so that you can measure 50 ohms with your multimeter, because this is not a wire resistance, but the characteristic impedance, which in turn has to do with the dimensions and geometry of the center wire and its shielding - and the dielectricum between them.

The cables with crocodile clips on one end are usually 50 ohms as well, albeit mostly inferior quality. This is less of a concern at low frequencies, but especially the Bode Plotter could suffer from high crosstalk, caused by cheap cables with inefficient shielding.

However the most important prerequisite for using the 50 ohms technique in any test setup is to make sure you have 50 ohms interfaces on your DUT. This will be the case for lab gear and professional RF modules, but neither for audio circuits nor passive RC-structures thrown together on a breadboard. Use high impedance probes (maybe together with suitable termination resistors to satisfy the needs of the DUT ports) in all these cases - and tell the Bode Plotter the correct value of the termination resistors whenever you want to measure power (dBm). This setting is meaningless for voltage measurements (dBV).

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: gustavo61 on July 09, 2023, 06:47:18 pm
Hello people, I am from Argentina, I have the sdg2042x a couple of years ago, I never updated it, it has the version 2.01.01.21r2 and I tried to do the trick, but when I get there, activate the dhcp, it does nothing, it puts everything at 0.0.0.0, I connect it to a lenovo 480, install it putty and nothing I'm doing wrong I need help thanks in advance :scared:
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on July 09, 2023, 06:52:21 pm
Hello people, I am from Argentina, I have the sdg2042x a couple of years ago, I never updated it, it has the version 2.01.01.21r2 and I tried to do the trick, but when I get there, activate the dhcp, it does nothing, it puts everything at 0.0.0.0, I connect it to a lenovo 480, install it putty and nothing I'm doing wrong I need help thanks in advance :scared:
Welcome to the forum.

You need connect to a LAN for DHCP to assign the SDG a valid IP.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: gustavo61 on July 09, 2023, 07:41:54 pm
hello the port of the notebook is not lan so I could use a router and connect both in the
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on July 09, 2023, 08:29:34 pm
hello the port of the notebook is not lan so I could use a router and connect both in the
You don't require a connection to SDG to update the firmware.

Download and unpack from here:
https://int.siglent.com/download/firmwares/?ProId=5

Transfer the ADS file onto a USB stick and select the file with the UI to install the firmware.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: gustavo61 on July 09, 2023, 10:46:04 pm
I don't want to update until I do the trick. I managed to connect but when I copy the first line and hit enter, the putty closes :palm:
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Martin72 on July 09, 2023, 11:18:38 pm
Hi,

Have a look at this:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg2042x-hack-door-closed/msg4599439/#msg4599439 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg2042x-hack-door-closed/msg4599439/#msg4599439)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: phecap on July 19, 2023, 01:58:48 pm
The SHA256 checksum is correct.  Thanks for that info.

I don't think it's a flash drive issue. 
I just used the same flash drive to successfully go back from 2.01.01.35R3B2 to 2.01.01.23R8 and then tried to go up to 2.01.01.37R6 which failed. Going back up to 2.01.01.35R3B2 from 2.01.01.23R8 succeeded.  It just won't go later than 2.01.01.35R3B2.

I wonder if there is some internal file that is corrupted or read only that the latest firmware updates are trying to modify?  Is there a log file that can be accessed to see where the firmware update is failing?

I don't know if you already solved the problem but I also was unable to update firmware version 37R3. Up to and including version 35R3B2 it went flawlessly.
After 20% I got the message update failed.
What struck me is that the version 37R3 is much larger (40MB) than the previous version 35R3B2 (15MB).
While logged in with root access using telnet on port 10101, I updated 37R3 and queried disk usage several times during the update.
 
disk use before update
/ # df -h
Filesystem                Size      Used Available Use% Mounted on
ubi0:rootfs              35.2M     20.2M     14.9M  58% /
none                     60.6M      4.0K     60.6M   0% /tmp
mdev                     60.6M         0     60.6M   0% /dev
ubi1_0                   85.0M     12.6M     72.4M  15% /usr/bin/siglent/usr
ubi2_0                   40.7M     24.0K     40.6M   0% /usr/bin/siglent/firmdata0
/dev/sda1               117.6M     38.6M     79.0M  33% /usr/bin/siglent/usr/mass_storage/U-disk0

disk use ubi1_0 increases during update
ubi1_0                   85.0M     29.5M     55.5M  35% /usr/bin/siglent/usr
ubi1_0                   85.0M     51.3M     33.7M  60% /usr/bin/siglent/usr
ubi1_0                   85.0M     82.7M      2.3M  97% /usr/bin/siglent/usr


firmware update failed at 100%
ubi1_0                   85.0M     85.0M     16.0K 100% /usr/bin/siglent/usr

disk use ubi1_0 after failing update
ubi1_0                   85.0M     12.6M     72.4M  15% /usr/bin/siglent/usr

Then in the folder /usr/bin/siglent/usr I discovered a file SIGLENT.ADS which I don't think should be there.

/usr/bin/siglent/usr # ls -l
-rwxr-xr-x    1 root     root     13486792 Jan  1 00:01 SIGLENT.ADS
drwxr-xr-x    2 1000     ding          616 Jan  1 00:00 config
drwxr-xr-x    2 root     root         1960 Jan  1 00:00 log
drwxr-xr-x    2 root     root          160 Jan  1 00:20 mass_storagel
drwxr-xr-x    2 1000     ding          600 Jan  1 00:19 usr
-rwxr-xr-x    1 1000     ding           74 Sep 27  2016 version.txt


Removed the SIGLENT.ADS file and then updating 37R3 and then 37R6 went without a hitch.
So there was not enough space for the larger firmware files.


Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: JDubU on July 19, 2023, 02:33:26 pm
I had not solved it.  I'm still using 2.01.01.35R3B2 and unable to upgrade to later firmware versions
Do you know what Siglent.ADS is?  Is it truly safe to remove?



Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tv84 on July 19, 2023, 02:56:16 pm
Do you know what Siglent.ADS is?  Is it truly safe to remove?

It's the FW update file. Sure you can remove it.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: phecap on July 19, 2023, 03:04:37 pm
I had not solved it.  I'm still using 2.01.01.35R3B2 and unable to upgrade to later firmware versions
Do you know what Siglent.ADS is?  Is it truly safe to remove?

I discovered that SIGLENT.ADS is exactly the same size as an old firmware file namely 23R3.ADS. So it stayed after that update.
I removed it and everything works.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: JDubU on July 19, 2023, 04:41:07 pm
Removed SIGLENT.ADS from /usr/bin/siglent/usr and successfully updated firmware to V2.01.01.37R6.

Thank you for finding the solution!
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: mastershake on July 20, 2023, 05:19:21 am
so i am having zero luck here. i have now modded 5 other siglent models without any issues at all this is the first one bring a pain in the neck. what am i missing here.

just got the 2 in today i ordered price was just to good to pass on (250 each brand new) and i def want the 120 but are there other things that can be enabled safely and that are useable i.e. accurate?? i appreciate the help i got the scops both done easy with your all help. now i need to do these waveform gen's

i use putty all the time def know how to use it (in IT and web design) got the ethernet hooked up. tried multiple firmwares even ones people above said they had it work with just to be sure. turn on dhcp. got ip. run putty get to the scpi screen where it lists the siglent scpi and the correct model number. run the commands, input them into the script (same one i used for the previos sig's ive upgraded so i am to assume this script works?) tried without the scope id, tried to put the mc# intp the scope id just to try it. did change the 150m to 120m before running the script, put the resulting mcbd into putty for 120m and re started unit. still stuck at 40. tried this more then 20 times now and for the life of me i must be missing something. i did just get eye shots in both eyes so im a bit foggy but i had my daughter verify the numbers for me to make sure i was putting them in right she said all was good. using this script which worked perfect for the other models https://pastebin.com/fygAJy6y

any thoughts or ideas on what i could be doing wrong. i see the message in putty showing the connection to the siglent 2024 so it appears to be connecting right. currently on firmware 2.01.01.35R3B2 because previous poster said they had it work fine with that one. so i figured why not.

this is driving me insane. i ALMOST bought hantek's instead but when he offered these to me for less money and i knew they could do 120 i said ill def take those over the hanteks. but im stuck at 40 now and the hanteks at least stock are 100. can someone help me out. so much appreciated. one of these is going to a younger student who had cancer like i do and i wanted to do something nice to brighten his day up (im teaching him what i know and we connect because we both are dealing with terminal cancer) so i really want to get it working for him. you would def be helping make him smile a ton. this is one of the last pieces he needed. i gave him my old scope and one of my microscopes so he is over the moon and this would just top it off.

thank you so much in advance if you can help me out. i just cant figure this out and watch its prob something really dumb and im going to be like omg duh. sometimes all the cancer meds dont help my thinking they have me on actinium now which is def causing some brain fog.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: mastershake on July 20, 2023, 06:57:05 am
i know i also posted this in the other 2024 hack thread but i thought it may be able to help someone and honestly im not sure which is really the current thread to follow lol prob this one

"okay so i dont know if this was mentioned and i missed it or it was me being dumb tonight with my chemo brain as we call it but when running the script for the keygen you have to put the serial number in the scope id line NOT in the serial number line. once i did that worked like a charm.


now can i upgrade to the newest firmware or will that wipe out the 120m. these seem to be more basic then i thought but the hantek quality scared me and their comparable unit did go to 150 BUT the square for example only went to 10 and triangle only to 1 etc. the only wave that was "better" was the sine. but it did have a ton more overall features then these.

i also asked tautech but ill ask here also in case it may help someone else can any of the other features on the kegen list be unlocked on the 2024 units?"
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: KungFuJosh on July 22, 2023, 08:15:41 pm
Yes it's a bit annoying the lack of consistency across the Siglent websites  ::)
 https://siglentna.com/operating-tip/sdg-remote-scpi-command-to-request-a-screen-image-2/

SCPI command: SCDP

I did a search, and nothing else came up... Is there still no better way to get a screenshot?

I tried SCDP on telnet in putty and tera term, and in both cases it put garbage on the screen rather than capturing a screenshot file. Is there something else I need to setup to make it work?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on July 22, 2023, 08:23:13 pm
Yes it's a bit annoying the lack of consistency across the Siglent websites  ::)
 https://siglentna.com/operating-tip/sdg-remote-scpi-command-to-request-a-screen-image-2/

SCPI command: SCDP

I did a search, and nothing else came up... Is there still no better way to get a screenshot?

I tried SCDP on telnet in putty and tera term, and in both cases it put garbage on the screen rather than capturing a screenshot file. Is there something else I need to setup to make it work?
For SDG (all models) and SDM (all models) a 'one button press' screenshot feature has recently been requested.  ;)
Like all worthy suggestions it needs time to soak but will be following it up in the near future.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: KungFuJosh on July 22, 2023, 08:32:40 pm
For SDG (all models) and SDM (all models) a 'one button press' screenshot feature has recently been requested.  ;)
Like all worthy suggestions it needs time to soak but will be following it up in the near future.

Noice, I'm not surprised SDG was included in that request. So, in the meantime be patient? 😉
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: gjvdheiden on July 23, 2023, 11:58:15 am
Yes it's a bit annoying the lack of consistency across the Siglent websites  ::)
 https://siglentna.com/operating-tip/sdg-remote-scpi-command-to-request-a-screen-image-2/

SCPI command: SCDP

I did a search, and nothing else came up... Is there still no better way to get a screenshot?

I tried SCDP on telnet in putty and tera term, and in both cases it put garbage on the screen rather than capturing a screenshot file. Is there something else I need to setup to make it work?

The garbage is the image in binary format and your client (putty, tera term whatever) is diplaying it as characters using the character encoding. You might be able to use a command line option to redirect the data to a file. Using > won't work, because the character encoding is in the way, you need binary.

I used the python script with the same skippy command ('SCDP') and it works fine. That Python script just opens a binary stream and reads the image. I can't find the original script. I crippled the script, you can't use command line arguments. You also need the pyvisa stuff.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: KungFuJosh on July 23, 2023, 01:43:03 pm
The garbage is the image in binary format and your client (putty, tera term whatever) is diplaying it as characters using the character encoding. You might be able to use a command line option to redirect the data to a file. Using > won't work, because the character encoding is in the way, you need binary.

I used the python script with the same skippy command ('SCDP') and it works fine. That Python script just opens a binary stream and reads the image. I can't find the original script. I crippled the script, you can't use command line arguments. You also need the pyvisa stuff.

Thanks, that's what I assumed. I don't plan on reinstalling pyvisa, so I'll be patient and wait for a screenshot button to work.

It would be nice if they made a web interface like the scopes have.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: hfleming on July 24, 2023, 01:15:08 pm
This simple project might show you how to roll out your own web-interface.

 https://stupid-projects.com/posts/write-python-scripts-for-your-siglent-sdg1025/ (https://stupid-projects.com/posts/write-python-scripts-for-your-siglent-sdg1025/)

The garbage is the image in binary format and your client (putty, tera term whatever) is diplaying it as characters using the character encoding. You might be able to use a command line option to redirect the data to a file. Using > won't work, because the character encoding is in the way, you need binary.

I used the python script with the same skippy command ('SCDP') and it works fine. That Python script just opens a binary stream and reads the image. I can't find the original script. I crippled the script, you can't use command line arguments. You also need the pyvisa stuff.

Thanks, that's what I assumed. I don't plan on reinstalling pyvisa, so I'll be patient and wait for a screenshot button to work.

It would be nice if they made a web interface like the scopes have.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: KungFuJosh on July 24, 2023, 03:49:05 pm
This simple project might show you how to roll out your own web-interface.

Thank you, but no. I'm not employed by Siglent. 😉
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: DaleWentz on July 30, 2023, 12:07:41 am
I could not find it in the manuals, but does anyone know if there is an option to set the output reading in dBm instead of volts PP?
I will probably use this more as an RF signal generator and am used to dealing in dBm. I know I can do the conversion but that just slows things down.

Thanks
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on July 30, 2023, 12:12:45 am
I could not find it in the manuals, but does anyone know if there is an option to set the output reading in dBm instead of volts PP?
Yep when you engage 50 Ohm output dB units become available.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: DaleWentz on July 30, 2023, 01:08:03 am
Thank you, that is what I was wanting! You just cost me $500.00 LOL
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: KG7AMV on August 20, 2023, 08:34:12 am
Anyone suddenly have low or no output form the SDG2042X, Chan 2 is intermittent. I May have to test the siglent warranty! I'll call the siglentna on monday.

It may have overheated powerd it back on this morning and has output odd?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Tjuurko on August 28, 2023, 10:32:00 am
In new firmware (V2.01.01.37R*), button "SWEEP" increases the amplitude of the output signal: CH1 +25%, CH2 +5%.
Without cables connected, the output overvoltage protection is activated.
Tested for SDG2042X (SV: 2.01.01.35R3B2, HV: 02-01-00-40-00).
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: LogicalDave on September 03, 2023, 11:13:52 pm
I'm sorry if I missed it (I've searched for a while), but is there a way to convince the SDG2042X to retain the external clock source setting?  I have the generator slaved to an external 10MHz standard, but the clock source setting always reverts to internal when the generator is turned on again. 
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on September 04, 2023, 01:12:53 am
I'm sorry if I missed it (I've searched for a while), but is there a way to convince the SDG2042X to retain the external clock source setting?  I have the generator slaved to an external 10MHz standard, but the clock source setting always reverts to internal when the generator is turned on again.
In the firmware release notes this was fixed:
6/16/2016 2.01.01.21R2
l) Can not remember the clock source setting

This is the latest:
https://int.siglent.com/upload_file/zip/firmware/Signal_generator/SDG2000X_V2.01.01.37R6_EN.zip

Please confirm if it works as expected with the latest version.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bicycleguy on September 04, 2023, 05:08:55 am
I'm sorry if I missed it (I've searched for a while), but is there a way to convince the SDG2042X to retain the external clock source setting?  I have the generator slaved to an external 10MHz standard, but the clock source setting always reverts to internal when the generator is turned on again.
After setting the source make sure 'Utility/System/PowerOn Setting' is set to last or make a new user state file and set to that.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: LogicalDave on September 04, 2023, 11:08:31 pm
Thank you @bicycleguy and @tautech, that did the trick (saves the external clock source setting persistently)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Mortymore on September 05, 2023, 12:03:04 am
I believe there's a search for a reasonable way to take a screenshot from the SDG2000X

I use this ConnectionManager for my SDG1000X, and I think that it may work for the SDG2000X as well

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/visa-scanscreen-capture-utility/msg3947497/#msg3947497 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/visa-scanscreen-capture-utility/msg3947497/#msg3947497)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: KungFuJosh on September 05, 2023, 01:18:01 am
I use this ConnectionManager for my SDG1000X, and I think that it may work for the SDG2000X as well

How are you connecting to make it work?

I installed the required ni-visa runtime, and the app runs now, but it can't find my SDG on port 5024 or 5025 when trying to use it over the network (tcpip).

EDIT: I wonder if it's because the default command it sends is *INSTR which doesn't prompt a response when I try it connected with Putty.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on September 05, 2023, 02:34:20 am
I use this ConnectionManager for my SDG1000X, and I think that it may work for the SDG2000X as well

How are you connecting to make it work?

I installed the required ni-visa runtime, and the app runs now, but it can't find my SDG on port 5024 or 5025 when trying to use it over the network (tcpip).
See P6; open xxx xxx xxx xxx 5024
https://int.siglent.com/u_file/document/SDG_Programming%20Guide_PG02-E05B.pdf
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: KungFuJosh on September 05, 2023, 01:36:27 pm
See P6; open xxx xxx xxx xxx 5024
https://int.siglent.com/u_file/document/SDG_Programming%20Guide_PG02-E05B.pdf

Yes, I've RTFM. 😉😉

If you read further in my post, I mentioned I was able to test in Putty fine (as I have in the past, I have a connection preset for it).

The issue is connecting from the "ConnectionsManager" app linked above. I've tried both ports 5024 and 5025, with the IP and port separated by a colon, and again separated by just a space. Neither works. I've also tried without specifying a port.

The app by default sends *INSTR as the query when searching for devices. The SDG doesn't give a response to that query, and my current assumption is that is why it can't find the device.

I will post in the linked thread and see if I can get a response.

Thanks,
Josh
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tv84 on September 05, 2023, 01:57:29 pm
When you say *INSTR, don't you mean *IDN?  ?

I don't recognize *INSTR as a valid query and, even if it were, it would require the question mark in order to be a query.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: KungFuJosh on September 05, 2023, 02:06:29 pm
When you say *INSTR, don't you mean *IDN?  ?

I don't recognize *INSTR as a valid query and, even if it were, it would require the question mark in order to be a query.

I don't know, I don't recognize the command either, but I do know what *IDN? is. 😉

this is what the log says:
Quote
Scanning xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx:5025 on visa://xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx:5025/(TCPIP|GPIB)?*INSTR
No instruments detected!

Same thing if I use 5024, or a space instead of a colon.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: gjvdheiden on September 06, 2023, 09:13:35 am
When you say *INSTR, don't you mean *IDN?  ?

I don't recognize *INSTR as a valid query and, even if it were, it would require the question mark in order to be a query.

In some Python scripts I saw TCPIP::x.x.x.x::INSTR (x.x.x.x is the ip address) to connect via the visa driver. So that may be something. Can't test it now.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: jhenderson0107 on September 06, 2023, 02:51:19 pm
When you say *INSTR, don't you mean *IDN?  ?

I don't recognize *INSTR as a valid query and, even if it were, it would require the question mark in order to be a query.
*INSTR is used as a parameter to the Visa FindRsrc command.  See Chapter 5 of the NI Visa Programmer's Guide. 

An excerpt:  The viFindRsrc() operation matches the value specified in the expr parameter with the
resources available for a particular interface. A regular expression is a string consisting of
ordinary characters as well as special characters. You use a regular expression to specify
patterns to match in a given string; in other words, it is a search criterion. The viFindRsrc()
operation uses a case-insensitive compare feature when matching resource names against the
regular expression specified in expr. For example, calling viFindRsrc() with
“VXI?*INSTR” would return the same resources as invoking it with “vxi?*instr”.


Use this function within instrument control applications to scan for GPIB, LAN, RS232 or USB devices. 
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on September 11, 2023, 11:05:39 am
New firmware for SDG2000X models.

Version: V2.01.01.37R8
38.6 MB
https://int.siglent.com/upload_file/zip/firmware/Signal_generator/SDG2000X_V2.01.01.37R8_EN.zip

Release notes
1. Solve the problem of slow USB drive detection during startup
2. Solve the problem of outputting abnormal pulses during burst mode
3. Add instructions for saving and reading status(XML)files
4. Add the instruction to clear the statistics of the counter
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: NoisyBoy on September 13, 2023, 03:04:03 am
Thanks Tautech,

I upgraded mine, absolutely straight forward update.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Vit G on September 18, 2023, 06:15:54 am
Hi, Tautech!

    Can I hope that you will someday correct the phase shift between channels that cannot be eliminated by the EqPhase button?
-9 Degrees error on 100MHz (abt 0.25nS)
    Phase Coupling procedure is not a solution that should be used. it is only needed to compensate for the length of the cables if it is different. with the same length there should be enough EqPhase button!
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on September 18, 2023, 07:57:24 am
Hi, Tautech!

    Can I hope that you will someday correct the phase shift between channels that cannot be eliminated by the EqPhase button?
-9 Degrees error on 100MHz (abt 0.25nS)
    Phase Coupling procedure is not a solution that should be used. it is only needed to compensate for the length of the cables if it is different. with the same length there should be enough EqPhase button!
Do you have the latest firmware installed ?

I have seen this before with identical cables but with EqPhase it is much reduced then to add some small Phase adjustment can be nulled completely out. However as you change frequencies phase can move slightly and you need make further adjustments.

Attached from a SDG6022X, 20 MHz, 500mV and identical cables with EqPhase and channel copy applied where any phase difference is tiny then have added 5o to show a difference between channels.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Vit G on September 19, 2023, 06:57:44 am
Nothing changed after the last update. The same difference of 250 pS between channels. If the EqPhase button still doesn't work, then replace it with something more useful =) The cables I use are identical in length. I even swapped them, nothing changed. Look how Rigol did it. when you press the EqPhase button, their device very accurately phases the outputs
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: MathWizard on October 23, 2023, 06:29:51 am
How much better is the SDG6022X than a SDG2142X ? (which I own , but I would like closer to 0.5-1GHz)

What else is on par with the 6022X ? I'm sort of locked into Siglent tho, since my scopes are Siglent, and they can work together with the AWG.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on October 23, 2023, 07:19:28 am
How much better is the SDG6022X than a SDG2142X ? (which I own , ...)
SDG6000X is a 500 MHz capable design and they are both all but identical to operate.

Quote
but I would like closer to 0.5-1GHz
SDG7000A models within budget ?

Would an RF gen like the 2.1 GHz SSG3021X meet your HF needs ?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: coromonadalix on October 23, 2023, 07:31:27 am
and the SSG3021X  can be more ....
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on October 23, 2023, 07:35:57 am
and the SSG3021X  can be more ....
Correct, more economical than SDG7000A series when you only need higher BW sinewaves.

SSG3021X has been my choice for such needs.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on October 23, 2023, 08:43:30 am
and the SSG3021X  can be more ....
Yes mine is SSG3032X now......
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: RoV on October 25, 2023, 08:39:16 pm
My SDG2042X is updated with FW V2.01.01.37R8. Today I have discovered a weird behaviour in sweep mode: output amplitude shows a step around ~293 kHz, being correct at >293 kHz and something like 10% higher than normal below that frequency. See attachments. This happens regardless of waveform, sweep time, log/lin sweep, channel 1 or 2. At the same frequencies, in normal (non sweep) mode, the instrument works fine.
By searching in this same eevblog topic, I have discovered this msg from Tjuurko that claims a different anomaly:

In new firmware (V2.01.01.37R*), button "SWEEP" increases the amplitude of the output signal: CH1 +25%, CH2 +5%.
Without cables connected, the output overvoltage protection is activated.
Tested for SDG2042X (SV: 2.01.01.35R3B2, HV: 02-01-00-40-00).

At this point my suspect is that there is a bug and calibration is bypassed in sweep mode, so the instrument works in uncalibrated mode and different things can happen to different machines.
Can you try on yours?

I annex a few photos of the SDG sweeping, connected to my scope. Last photo is on a reduced interval around 293 kHz, with a zoom on the sinusoid showing the abrubt amplitude change.

EDIT: I don't understand why, but I see the images rotated by 90° after publication. Original images are correct.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: RoV on October 30, 2023, 08:10:05 am
My SDG2042X is updated with FW V2.01.01.37R8. Today I have discovered a weird behaviour in sweep mode: output amplitude shows a step around ~293 kHz, being correct at >293 kHz and something like 10% higher than normal below that frequency. See attachments. This happens regardless of waveform, sweep time, log/lin sweep, channel 1 or 2. At the same frequencies, in normal (non sweep) mode, the instrument works fine.

I have solved the problem by downgrading the FW:
SDG2000X_V2.01.01.37R8_EN    NO (the most recent one discussed in the original post)
SDG2000X_V2.01.01.37R6_EN    NO
SDG2000X_V2.01.01.37R3_EN    NO
SDG2000X_2.01.01.35R3B2_EN  OK
From 37R3 onwards they support new HW versions, they likely messed with backwards compatibility (I forgot to say that my unit is dated 2017, HW revision 02-01-00-41-00).  |O returning to the 35R3 loses several improvements.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on October 30, 2023, 08:58:05 am
Thanks much for your investigations RoV...... now reported.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: phecap on October 30, 2023, 10:28:20 am
My SDG2042X also has the same problem.
The hardware revision is also 02-01-00-41-00.
I also installed the latest firmware version (SDG2000X_V2.01.01.37R8_EN).
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: maksim36 on November 14, 2023, 03:21:04 am
Does anyone know what display model is used in the sdg2042x generator? My display is broken.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Roger Need on November 15, 2023, 01:16:25 am
My SDG2042X also has the same problem.
The hardware revision is also 02-01-00-41-00.
I also installed the latest firmware version (SDG2000X_V2.01.01.37R8_EN).

I have the same problem too with older firmware

Hardware version 02-02-00-40-00
Software version 2.01.01.37R6
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: TheDefpom on November 15, 2023, 08:58:26 am
Argh... this bug explains something I saw recently when I was doing a review on Micsigs new 150MHz differential probe... I noticed some steps on the bode plot and thought it was the probe doing it, looks like it was the sig gen.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: ozkarah on November 17, 2023, 04:52:08 pm
Same problem here.

An amplitude increase around 110-120MHz:

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: RoV on November 17, 2023, 05:08:57 pm
This is not the same problem (not a step in the response) and, according to me, is probably not a problem at all. The instrument specs give +/-0.4 dB in the 100-120 MHz range which is already close to your results. You didn't say anything about cable, connectors, kind of termination, scope used, so there is a potential margin to justify some deviation on the highest frequencies.
You should check behavior below 1 MHz, where the problem is commonly seen. Please also report HW and FW versions.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Martin72 on November 18, 2023, 09:06:34 pm
Hi,

Output 2 is active at every (re)start, I always have to switch it off manually.
Power on state is last.
How can this be?

(SDG2122X (formerly 2042X), latest firmware)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bicycleguy on November 19, 2023, 12:09:49 am
@Martin72,
That's funny, I can't get mine to start up with either channel on, no matter the power setting.  Maybe this is as it should be.

At least once in the past the internal files got messed up with firmware revisions.  The fix was setting the to powerOn to default, cycle power and then back to user.

Good luck!
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: bicycleguy on November 19, 2023, 12:16:52 am
@Martin72,

Figured it out.  For each channel, Utility/Output Setup/Page2/PowerOn State/Off  return.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Martin72 on November 19, 2023, 12:17:15 am
Quote
I can't get mine to start up with either channel on

I could understand that for "security reasons".
But as soon as the generator has started up, I don't understand that a channel is "online" straight away - I think that's a bug.

EDIT:

Quote
For each channel, Utility/Output Setup/Page2/PowerOn State/Off  return.

Ahh...
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: mawyatt on November 21, 2023, 02:35:30 pm
Interesting feature within that allows one to construct waveforms based upon fundamental sinewave and harmonics. Here's a result showing the much discussed "Gibbs Ears" on another thread and created by summing odd harmonics up to AWG limit of 15.

Best,
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on November 22, 2023, 07:30:08 am
Another little play with harmonics and phasing with a 2ch AWG is in this old thread:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/a-valentine_s-day-activity-for-your-scope-and-function-generator/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/a-valentine_s-day-activity-for-your-scope-and-function-generator/)

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/a-valentine_s-day-activity-for-your-scope-and-function-generator/?action=dlattach;attach=292693)
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: blurpy on November 23, 2023, 07:17:44 pm
That was fun :D

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: KungFuJosh on November 23, 2023, 07:22:39 pm
That was fun :D

(Attachment Link)

Now flip it and make it look like a butt. 🤣
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: JoeRoy on January 07, 2024, 05:45:32 am
Siglent SDG1032X 30MHz vs SDG2042X 40MHz Function Generator comparising

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=et5bSpZuF1s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=et5bSpZuF1s)
Title: Siglent SDG2042X web interface
Post by: penfold42 on January 16, 2024, 05:01:59 am
Gday,

is anyone interested in a web UI for the SDG2000x ?
Here's my work in progress...
[attach=1]

All the buttons work, screen refresh is automatic.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: pope on January 16, 2024, 11:31:19 am
Looking good!
Title: Re: Siglent SDG2042X web interface
Post by: Roger Need on January 16, 2024, 11:35:14 pm
Gday,

is anyone interested in a web UI for the SDG2000x ?
Here's my work in progress...
(Attachment Link)

All the buttons work, screen refresh is automatic.

Looks very nice.  Are you planning to sell it or make it available for free?  Source code or executable available?

Roger
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Kanbus on January 17, 2024, 04:54:32 pm
My 2042X  exhibits the same behaviour as RoV's.

SW: 2.01.01.37R8
HW: 02-02-00-41-00

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: penfold42 on January 18, 2024, 11:50:42 am
[attach=2]
Gday,

is anyone interested in a web UI for the SDG2000x ?

Looks very nice.  Are you planning to sell it or make it available for free?  Source code or executable available?

Roger

Thanks!

Probably free but with a high level of guilt to encourage donations :)

I should have a build available in a few days.

its basically feature complete with a couple more buttons to implement on the frequency counter view and a smattering of layout issues to kill. I much prefer burning my fingers on a hakko than fighting html, css, js!

It's a handful of files that need to live on a webserver BUT right now it also needs to support a cgi-bin perl script to act as the proxy/gateway cos browsers can't make naked TCP connections.
One upside of this is that the proxy/gateway component could just as easily use serial rather than TCP/IP for the devices that dont do ethernet

Another preview (/tease)


 
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Martin72 on January 18, 2024, 01:13:50 pm
My 2042X  exhibits the same behaviour as RoV's.

SW: 2.01.01.37R8
HW: 02-02-00-41-00

Same HW/SW, same settings, same behaviour.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: Martin72 on January 18, 2024, 02:21:23 pm
That was with the SDS1104X-E, but I still have my SDS2504X HD... ;)

I used him to resolve this further.
Interesting:
The sweep ends as expected at 10Mhz - But then there is nothing at first, the first frequency is not the start frequency of 1kHz as expected, but something around 10.8kHz and then with the increased level.
This continues until about 290kHz, then the level drops and remains constant until the sweep ends at 10Mhz.
If you increase the start frequency to 10kHz, there is no longer a "pause", but the increased level remains the same for the time being.

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: profanum429 on January 22, 2024, 04:05:58 am
(Attachment Link)
Gday,

is anyone interested in a web UI for the SDG2000x ?

Looks very nice.  Are you planning to sell it or make it available for free?  Source code or executable available?

Roger

Thanks!

Probably free but with a high level of guilt to encourage donations :)

I should have a build available in a few days.

its basically feature complete with a couple more buttons to implement on the frequency counter view and a smattering of layout issues to kill. I much prefer burning my fingers on a hakko than fighting html, css, js!

It's a handful of files that need to live on a webserver BUT right now it also needs to support a cgi-bin perl script to act as the proxy/gateway cos browsers can't make naked TCP connections.
One upside of this is that the proxy/gateway component could just as easily use serial rather than TCP/IP for the devices that dont do ethernet

Another preview (/tease)

That looks great, I'd love to get a hold of this :) Would definitely be nicer to use than my macros for SCPI commands in a text terminal.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: penfold42 on January 23, 2024, 01:10:02 pm

That looks great, I'd love to get a hold of this :) Would definitely be nicer to use than my macros for SCPI commands in a text terminal.

Then you'll hopefully like my latest work
- scpi command history (cursor up/down), t
- macros can use C?: instead of C1 or C2 and you can use a dropdown to set the channel it gets replaced with
- able view where i split on commas
- both the plaintext and table areas are scrollable
- the height of the scpi are is configurable so if you want standalone use, go nuts and use more screen realestate.

[attach=1]

I'm super happy so far with the front end - the backend is a horrible cgi-bin perl script (for now).

got a linux box with a webserver and perl handy?
I've just been using a pi4 but a pi0 or a crappy old laptop would do fine too.


Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: profanum429 on January 24, 2024, 02:43:59 am

That looks great, I'd love to get a hold of this :) Would definitely be nicer to use than my macros for SCPI commands in a text terminal.

Then you'll hopefully like my latest work
- scpi command history (cursor up/down), t
- macros can use C?: instead of C1 or C2 and you can use a dropdown to set the channel it gets replaced with
- able view where i split on commas
- both the plaintext and table areas are scrollable
- the height of the scpi are is configurable so if you want standalone use, go nuts and use more screen realestate.

(Attachment Link)

I'm super happy so far with the front end - the backend is a horrible cgi-bin perl script (for now).

got a linux box with a webserver and perl handy?
I've just been using a pi4 but a pi0 or a crappy old laptop would do fine too.

Yep :) Got a small Optiplex Micro sitting on my desk that is my VM machine.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: penfold42 on January 27, 2024, 07:01:25 am
Finally got it up on github https://github.com/penfold42/SDGRemote/ (https://github.com/penfold42/SDGRemote/)

Documentation very much a work in progress, but would love your early feedback and questions.

If github's actions complete, there should be a "live" demo instance running at
https://penfold42.github.io/SDGRemote/ (https://penfold42.github.io/SDGRemote/)

[attach=1]
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: penfold42 on February 07, 2024, 08:33:32 am

Updated version posted today.
- Now uses a python websockets listener that leverages PyVISA to talk to the device.
- It also serves up the html content so you dont need a separate web server
- Much improved README.md and INSTALL.md
- Added [Copy] buttons to the SCPI results

"Live" demo here https://penfold42.github.io/SDGRemote/ (https://penfold42.github.io/SDGRemote/)

Would love to get any and all feedback here or on github.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: profanum429 on February 08, 2024, 02:42:21 am

Updated version posted today.
- Now uses a python websockets listener that leverages PyVISA to talk to the device.
- It also serves up the html content so you dont need a separate web server
- Much improved README.md and INSTALL.md
- Added [Copy] buttons to the SCPI results

"Live" demo here https://penfold42.github.io/SDGRemote/ (https://penfold42.github.io/SDGRemote/)

Would love to get any and all feedback here or on github.

I've been using the websockets version for a few hours now and it works great. Thanks for this so much!
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: St66666 on February 23, 2024, 10:56:58 pm
Just now on my SDG2042X when it turned on I see

DAC:           failed(chip id)
EEPROM:     failed()
FPGA:         failed()

Please press any function key to exit!

Anybody seen this before?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on February 23, 2024, 11:39:32 pm
Just now on my SDG2042X when it turned on I see

DAC:           failed(chip id)
EEPROM:     failed()
FPGA:         failed()

Please press any function key to exit!

Anybody seen this before?
Then does it boot as it should ?
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: St66666 on February 23, 2024, 11:51:35 pm
Just now on my SDG2042X when it turned on I see

DAC:           failed(chip id)
EEPROM:     failed()
FPGA:         failed()

Please press any function key to exit!

Anybody seen this before?
Then does it boot as it should ?


It does, but there is no signal on any of the outputs.
Otherwise everything looks ok and normal.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on February 23, 2024, 11:53:21 pm
Just now on my SDG2042X when it turned on I see

DAC:           failed(chip id)
EEPROM:     failed()
FPGA:         failed()

Please press any function key to exit!

Anybody seen this before?
Then does it boot as it should ?


It does, but there is no signal on any of the outputs.
Otherwise everything looks ok and normal.
Firmware version installed ?
Try installing the latest:
https://int.siglent.com/upload_file/zip/firmware/Signal_generator/SDG2000X_V2.01.01.37R8_EN.zip
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: St66666 on February 23, 2024, 11:59:36 pm
Just now on my SDG2042X when it turned on I see

DAC:           failed(chip id)
EEPROM:     failed()
FPGA:         failed()

Please press any function key to exit!

Anybody seen this before?
Then does it boot as it should ?


It does, but there is no signal on any of the outputs.
Otherwise everything looks ok and normal.
Firmware version installed ?
Try installing the latest:
https://int.siglent.com/upload_file/zip/firmware/Signal_generator/SDG2000X_V2.01.01.37R8_EN.zip

Thanks, will check what I have in it shortly. I think I was updating it recently....

Yes, that is what I have in there. Have the latest firmware.

Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: St66666 on February 24, 2024, 12:29:04 am
All the voltages according to page 68 of the service manual are there, including the 10MHz signal.

FPGA LED is flashing HL1 is flashing. HL2 is on.
HL1 LED beside the flash chip U4 on the other board is flashing in a pattern.

I have a suspicion that it might be the DAC what failed.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on February 24, 2024, 12:39:49 am
Yes, that is what I have in there. Have the latest firmware.
Okay message me via PM with your email address and we'll run a recovery package.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: St66666 on February 24, 2024, 12:47:57 am
Yes, that is what I have in there. Have the latest firmware.
Okay message me via PM with your email address and we'll run a recovery package.

Do you think it will make a difference?
It boots up to a "normal" looking state, so the software should not be an issue. It just has no signal on the output BNCs.
This is going to be a hardware problem
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: tautech on February 24, 2024, 12:52:28 am
Yes, that is what I have in there. Have the latest firmware.
Okay message me via PM with your email address and we'll run a recovery package.

Do you think it will make a difference?
It boots up to a "normal" looking state, so the software should not be an issue. It just has no signal on the output BNCs.
This is going to be a hardware problem
We cannot know until we try which then narrows what might be the issue.

You could also try reinstalling the latest firmware.
Also try a default reset, it's somewhere in the Utility menu.
Title: Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
Post by: St66666 on February 24, 2024, 09:04:09 pm
Yes, that is what I have in there. Have the latest firmware.
Okay message me via PM with your email address and we'll run a recovery package.

Do you think it will make a difference?
It boots up to a "normal" looking state, so the software should not be an issue. It just has no signal on the output BNCs.
This is going to be a hardware problem
We cannot know until we try which then narrows what might be the issue.

You could also try reinstalling the latest firmware.
Also try a default reset, it's somewhere in the Utility menu.

Without doing anything to it. After it was sitting unplugged overnight it booted up normally in the morning.
If it fails again I will update this conversation.
Thank you