Author Topic: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread  (Read 319747 times)

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Offline JDubU

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Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
« Reply #1175 on: September 15, 2019, 09:29:14 pm »
Is that also true of AM radio transmission?
 

Offline rf-loop

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Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
« Reply #1176 on: September 15, 2019, 09:32:27 pm »
FW: 2.01.01.35R3B1
Quote
1. Changed the amplitude strategy of AM modulation: The carrier stays fixed at the amplitude, regardless of the modulation setting.

Finally, after many years,  this small but important improvement.
No more confusion between using the conventional RF generator and sometimes using the SDG2000X for similar things with  carrier alone (CW) or AM mod carrier.

Carrier level is now what you set and it keep this carrier level when user turn AM mod on/off and independent of modulation depth. Now it works just like conventional RF generator  :-+

(SDG1000X get this improvement around year ago)

Sorry, but I don't understand: AM means Amplitude Modulation, right? How can it be kept at a given level?
I've downloaded the new release and the output signal amplitude is varying as expected with the modulation depth, from the initial level up to 120% of this level (eg. from 1Vpp to 2.4Vpp). Can you please explain what is the difference between the previous strategy and the new one? Thanks

If you look AM in frequency domain, using example spectrum analyzer you see this meaning of course.

Lets take example.

We set generator to produce 1MHz carrier without AM modulation, just pure sine. We set this carrier level say example 0dBm (50ohm system)  and we can see level is 0dBm if we look it with frequency domain - spectrum analyzer. (or time domain - oscilloscope we can see constant 0dBm level sinewave)

Then we turn AM modulation on without touching level:

Old FW, When turn AM on carrier drop 6dB (independent of modualtion depth)

Try with conventinal RF generator. Turn AM on and off. Carrier level stay constant.

New FirmWare (works now like conventional RF generator):
Turn AM on and off, carrier level stay constant and just as level was set..

Say example 1MHz carrier AM modulated with 1kHz sinewave and modulation depth 100%.
In real world there is now 0dBm 1MHz carrier and -6dBm 999kHz LSB tone and -6dBm 1001kHz USB tone.
If look with spectrum analyzer it is just what is show.

In old FW when select AM modulation, output peak level what was displayed/adjusted using SDG level setting.  It was right only for signal peaks when mod depth was 100%. With all other modulation depths level setting was wrong. It was not peak level and not carrier level and not sidetones level (zero true).
In new FW level set have one true. It is always carrier level. As it is also when AM is on or off.



Ok, now we drop modulation depth. Say example to 10%. Now we can see 1MHz carrier, level 0dBm and these sidetones levels dropped to -26dBm.

Then turn AM on and off. Spectrum analyzer show carrier stay always 0dBm and AM on there is sidetones and AM off, only carrier.
When look time domain, oscilloscope, AM on, there is bit over carrier peaks and bit under carrier lows and AM off, constant level carrier)

This may help for understand AM modulation (levels). http://hpmemoryproject.org/an/pdf/an_150-1a.pdf  and there chapter 2.




If practice and theory is not equal it tells that used application of theory is wrong or the theory itself is wrong.
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Offline rf-loop

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Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
« Reply #1177 on: September 15, 2019, 09:40:19 pm »
Is that also true of AM radio transmission?

This AM modulation math is same inside wire transmission and (radio) wireless transmission.  ;)
If practice and theory is not equal it tells that used application of theory is wrong or the theory itself is wrong.
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Offline bicycleguy

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Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
« Reply #1178 on: September 17, 2019, 10:03:52 pm »
Was anyone else notified of this update?  I thought I filled out all the warranty stuff ect. but never get notices of firmware updates.

Looks like a great update tho
 

Offline NoisyBoy

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Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
« Reply #1179 on: September 17, 2019, 11:57:32 pm »
There is no notification, in fact, I don't even believe there's a warranty registration.  At least I have never seen one on the website.

In reviewing the update date for the prior versions, and the recent update on the SDG1000X firmware, I figured something must be on the way.  So I was checking the firmware page periodically, that's how I came across the update a week ago.  The first thing I did was to share it with the community, so we can all benefit from the updates. 

That's one difference between the Chinese brands and the top tier brands, you get what you pay for.  I can log onto Infoline on Keysight to see every piece of equipment I bought from them, the warranty, warranty period, cal certificates, repair records/status, service and safety notes, and all software/firmware/documentation specific to my unit.  It is very nice for a hobby lab like mine, and I can understand the value for a large professional lab with hundreds or thousands of pieces of equipment. 
 

Online tautech

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Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
« Reply #1180 on: September 18, 2019, 12:58:51 am »
There is no notification, in fact, I don't even believe there's a warranty registration.  At least I have never seen one on the website.

In reviewing the update date for the prior versions, and the recent update on the SDG1000X firmware, I figured something must be on the way.  So I was checking the firmware page periodically, that's how I came across the update a week ago.  The first thing I did was to share it with the community, so we can all benefit from the updates. 

That's one difference between the Chinese brands and the top tier brands, you get what you pay for.  I can log onto Infoline on Keysight to see every piece of equipment I bought from them, the warranty, warranty period, cal certificates, repair records/status, service and safety notes, and all software/firmware/documentation specific to my unit.  It is very nice for a hobby lab like mine, and I can understand the value for a large professional lab with hundreds or thousands of pieces of equipment.
Things are a changing !
https://int.siglent.com/support/
Create an account and register your products.

Did once in the early days and all the spam I ever get is a mail when a new product guide is released.
Avid Rabid Hobbyist
 

Offline n3mmr

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Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
« Reply #1181 on: September 18, 2019, 09:17:34 am »
There is no notification, in fact, I don't even believe there's a warranty registration.  At least I have never seen one on the website.

In reviewing the update date for the prior versions, and the recent update on the SDG1000X firmware, I figured something must be on the way.  So I was checking the firmware page periodically, that's how I came across the update a week ago.  The first thing I did was to share it with the community, so we can all benefit from the updates. 

That's one difference between the Chinese brands and the top tier brands, you get what you pay for.  I can log onto Infoline on Keysight to see every piece of equipment I bought from them, the warranty, warranty period, cal certificates, repair records/status, service and safety notes, and all software/firmware/documentation specific to my unit.  It is very nice for a hobby lab like mine, and I can understand the value for a large professional lab with hundreds or thousands of pieces of equipment.
Things are a changing !
https://int.siglent.com/support/
Create an account and register your products.

Did once in the early days and all the spam I ever get is a mail when a new product guide is released.

Just tried that: no luck!
I registered, logged in and started by attempting to register my sds1104x-e.

Had the following error return:

"Fatal error: Uncaught SoapFault exception: [WSDL] SOAP-ERROR: Parsing WSDL: Couldn't load from 'http://219.133.80.90:8090/DYWebServer/DYWebServer.asmx?wsdl' : failed to load external entity "http://219.133.80.90:8090/DYWebServer/DYWebServer.asmx?wsdl" in /home/intsiglent/public_html/member/module/product-registration.php:32 Stack trace: #0 /home/intsiglent/public_html/member/module/product-registration.php(32): SoapClient->SoapClient('http://219.133....') #1 /home/intsiglent/public_html/member/index.php(26): include('/home/intsiglen...') #2 /home/intsiglent/public_html/account.php(3): include('/home/intsiglen...') #3 {main} thrown in /home/intsiglent/public_html/member/module/product-registration.php on line 32"

I'm in Sweden, if that could be part of the problem.
 
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Offline n3mmr

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Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
« Reply #1182 on: September 18, 2019, 11:17:55 am »
There is no notification, in fact, I don't even believe there's a warranty registration.  At least I have never seen one on the website.

In reviewing the update date for the prior versions, and the recent update on the SDG1000X firmware, I figured something must be on the way.  So I was checking the firmware page periodically, that's how I came across the update a week ago.  The first thing I did was to share it with the community, so we can all benefit from the updates. 

That's one difference between the Chinese brands and the top tier brands, you get what you pay for.  I can log onto Infoline on Keysight to see every piece of equipment I bought from them, the warranty, warranty period, cal certificates, repair records/status, service and safety notes, and all software/firmware/documentation specific to my unit.  It is very nice for a hobby lab like mine, and I can understand the value for a large professional lab with hundreds or thousands of pieces of equipment.
Things are a changing !
https://int.siglent.com/support/
Create an account and register your products.

Did once in the early days and all the spam I ever get is a mail when a new product guide is released.

Just tried that: no luck!
I registered, logged in and started by attempting to register my sds1104x-e.

Had the following error return:

"Fatal error: Uncaught SoapFault exception: [WSDL] SOAP-ERROR: Parsing WSDL: Couldn't load from 'http://219.133.80.90:8090/DYWebServer/DYWebServer.asmx?wsdl' : failed to load external entity "http://219.133.80.90:8090/DYWebServer/DYWebServer.asmx?wsdl" in /home/intsiglent/public_html/member/module/product-registration.php:32 Stack trace: #0 /home/intsiglent/public_html/member/module/product-registration.php(32): SoapClient->SoapClient('http://219.133....') #1 /home/intsiglent/public_html/member/index.php(26): include('/home/intsiglen...') #2 /home/intsiglent/public_html/account.php(3): include('/home/intsiglen...') #3 {main} thrown in /home/intsiglent/public_html/member/module/product-registration.php on line 32"

I'm in Sweden, if that could be part of the problem.

And when i tried adding my SDM3045X i get the response, your model doesn't exist...
 

Offline Siglent America

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Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
« Reply #1183 on: September 18, 2019, 12:27:46 pm »
There is no notification, in fact, I don't even believe there's a warranty registration.  At least I have never seen one on the website.

In reviewing the update date for the prior versions, and the recent update on the SDG1000X firmware, I figured something must be on the way.  So I was checking the firmware page periodically, that's how I came across the update a week ago.  The first thing I did was to share it with the community, so we can all benefit from the updates. 

That's one difference between the Chinese brands and the top tier brands, you get what you pay for.  I can log onto Infoline on Keysight to see every piece of equipment I bought from them, the warranty, warranty period, cal certificates, repair records/status, service and safety notes, and all software/firmware/documentation specific to my unit.  It is very nice for a hobby lab like mine, and I can understand the value for a large professional lab with hundreds or thousands of pieces of equipment.
Things are a changing !
https://int.siglent.com/support/
Create an account and register your products.

Did once in the early days and all the spam I ever get is a mail when a new product guide is released.

Good morning.
Siglent warranties the product itself, not the owner. So there is actually no real need to try and register it. We have recently made some changes to the SiglentNA.com website and we are trying to clear out old things that are still showing up. If you would like to sign up for the Siglent NA newsletter than please just email us at info@siglent.com and tell us you wish to be added. The newsletter does list all FW updates in the past month as well as videos, application notes, operating tips, new product releases, etc.

With recent changes in privacy laws, especially in Europe, companies are more conscious about adding people to their mail lists than in the past. Siglent is working to keep up with those new laws.

BTW, if you are in North America then you might want to stick with SiglentNA.com. The international site (INT) was designed for English speaking people outside of NA and the EU but it is maintained in Asia, not by us here in Cleveland.

Thanks
« Last Edit: September 18, 2019, 12:31:23 pm by Siglent America »
 

Online tautech

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Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
« Reply #1184 on: September 18, 2019, 08:14:40 pm »
Good morning.
Siglent warranties the product itself, not the owner. So there is actually no real need to try and register it. We have recently made some changes to the SiglentNA.com website and we are trying to clear out old things that are still showing up. If you would like to sign up for the Siglent NA newsletter than please just email us at info@siglent.com and tell us you wish to be added. The newsletter does list all FW updates in the past month as well as videos, application notes, operating tips, new product releases, etc.

With recent changes in privacy laws, especially in Europe, companies are more conscious about adding people to their mail lists than in the past. Siglent is working to keep up with those new laws.

BTW, if you are in North America then you might want to stick with SiglentNA.com. The international site (INT) was designed for English speaking people outside of NA and the EU but it is maintained in Asia, not by us here in Cleveland.

Thanks
Point is the product registration on the Siglent INT site is broken and needs fixing.
Reported to them yesterday for the webmaster to get working as it should.

Yes each of our regions have different ways to handle warranty and customer support however if our customers wish to register themselves and their products with the factory then it should be available and work.
Avid Rabid Hobbyist
 

Offline ebastler

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Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
« Reply #1185 on: September 18, 2019, 08:21:45 pm »
With recent changes in privacy laws, especially in Europe, companies are more conscious about adding people to their mail lists than in the past. Siglent is working to keep up with those new laws.

You mean, Siglent intentionally broke the registration option on their website, so they don't get in danger of processing customer data?  ;)
 

Offline n3mmr

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Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
« Reply #1186 on: October 17, 2019, 02:27:04 pm »
I noticed the 2042X Ref Clock input has an inpiut impedance of 5kOhm.

The waveform from my Leo Bodnar GPSDO at 10MHz looksrather unruly, when looking with an oscilloscope in parallell with the 2042 clock input.

Shouldn't that clock input have a 50 Ohm impedance??

 

Offline Gixy

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Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
« Reply #1187 on: October 18, 2019, 06:09:00 am »
Hi,
I have a GPSDO connected to my 2042X and I inserted a 50 Ohm load. The output of the GPSDO is also directly sent to an ITT frequency counter with a "T" BNC and everything work well.
 

Online Performa01

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Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
« Reply #1188 on: October 18, 2019, 07:17:18 am »
There is usually little point using a 50 ohm terminator for the reference clock, even less so if it's distributed by a simple BNC-T.

Up to at least 3 meter cable length the line impedance mismatch will not pose any problem at 10MHz.

On the other hand, a BNC-T will ruin the impedance match and cause reflections anyway, no matter how many terminators and where they are fitted.

A properly matched clock distribution would require a 50 ohm power splitter with all cable ends terminated, but this would significantly attenuate the clock signal.

A large clock signal on the other hand is essential for low jitter and phase noise, which would not really be important for a frequency counter, but it certainly is for any signal generator - at least if output signal quality is of any concern.

 

Offline ebastler

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Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
« Reply #1189 on: October 18, 2019, 08:06:40 am »
Shouldn't that clock input have a 50 Ohm impedance??

Then you would only be able to connect a single receiver to your reference clock source; that's probably not desirable.  More likely than not, you will have multiple devices daisy-chained (via BNC T's); then add a terminator at the last one if needed.

(Yes, the luxury version would be an inout which is switchable betwee2n high-Z or 50 Ohm ...)
 

Offline n3mmr

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Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
« Reply #1190 on: October 18, 2019, 03:27:50 pm »
Shouldn't that clock input have a 50 Ohm impedance??

Then you would only be able to connect a single receiver to your reference clock source; that's probably not desirable.  More likely than not, you will have multiple devices daisy-chained (via BNC T's); then add a terminator at the last one if needed.

(Yes, the luxury version would be an inout which is switchable betwee2n high-Z or 50 Ohm ...)

And this is probably a good reason to use sine wave, i e single frequency, clock signals.

Or use a distribution amplifier.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2019, 03:29:42 pm by n3mmr »
 

Offline DPA31

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Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
« Reply #1191 on: October 19, 2019, 04:06:36 pm »
Only have 2042X sorry and previous were at 40 (max) and 20 MHz.
I mucked around for quite a while to try and show more than 2 harmonics so more than those displayed are right down in the noise floor.

Thanks a lot.
Now it will be interesting to compare it with SDG2082X, SDG2122X and with Rigol DG4102 in the same condition. 
Any chance you can do it in the future? ::)

Also, it will be great if you will test SDG2042X for this modulation issue:

Hi to all,
Great Forum here as usually on EEVBlog!
Being influenced by your work guys here  :-+,
I got an SDG2082X. It's worth its money ! :clap:
Great work from Siglent, and good support to their customers with the firmware evolution.
Find attached the spectrum analysis as per Tautech's one on SDG2042X.
Cheers.
Dom.
 

Offline DPA31

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Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
« Reply #1192 on: October 19, 2019, 08:01:43 pm »


It looks like you don't know this:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ads-firmware-file-format/msg1870091/#msg1870091
[/quote]

Hi tv84
i am facing difficulties...
I PM you.
Cheers.
Dom.
 

Offline n3mmr

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Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
« Reply #1193 on: October 25, 2019, 08:29:42 am »
Just realised the 2122x Burst mode lacks one possibility that the Tektronix and HP generators in my sophomore physics labs had, a two level burst.

I e the burst could be set as a sharp finite level change rather than on/off.

Can't remember if that was really useful, normally, but I do have a real use case now, where I would like to switch an audio sine wave between full-scale, 0db, and like -60-120 db.

This would be for characterising multi-adc-stage wide dynamic range audio digitizers. Such as those used in the Zoom F6 and the Sound Devices Mixpre II recorders. Such arrangements are common in some digital i/o microphones, too.
 

Online McBryce

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Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
« Reply #1194 on: October 25, 2019, 09:06:44 am »
You can: Create a two level arb. waveform and use that in burst mode.

McBryce.
 

Offline n3mmr

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Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
« Reply #1195 on: October 25, 2019, 10:57:33 am »
You can: Create a two level arb. waveform and use that in burst mode.

McBryce.

Why in burst mode? An arb waveform could be the burst, and then just sent out continually.

Also, I'm not sure if I could very easily design such a waveform that didn't have audible DAC  related artefacts.
 

Online McBryce

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Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
« Reply #1196 on: October 25, 2019, 11:22:27 am »
Well you could do it that way too, I just thought you wanted it to be using the Siglent burst mode.
If it's a continuous non-zero value that then has a burst to another non-zero level, you could possibly use burst mode with a DC offset?


McBryce.
 

Offline ebastler

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Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
« Reply #1197 on: October 25, 2019, 01:16:51 pm »
I would like to switch an audio sine wave between full-scale, 0db, and like -60-120 db.

Couldn't you also use a continuous sine wave on one channel, then amplitude-modulate via a rectangular signal from the second channel? Or is the dynamic range of amplitude modulation too limited? I haven't tried this. And it would, of course, use both channels, which may be undesirable.
 

Online Performa01

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Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
« Reply #1198 on: October 25, 2019, 06:45:03 pm »
Just realised the 2122x Burst mode lacks one possibility that the Tektronix and HP generators in my sophomore physics labs had, a two level burst.

I e the burst could be set as a sharp finite level change rather than on/off.

Can't remember if that was really useful, normally, but I do have a real use case now, where I would like to switch an audio sine wave between full-scale, 0db, and like -60-120 db.

This would be for characterising multi-adc-stage wide dynamic range audio digitizers. Such as those used in the Zoom F6 and the Sound Devices Mixpre II recorders. Such arrangements are common in some digital i/o microphones, too.
A two level burst is manageable with the SDG-X series when using both channels together – and I think this is the only viable way for your use case. You still want a high quality signal even at very low levels after all.

Here’s the setup

[attachimg=2]
Dual_Level_Setup

You get the idea: Set channel 1 for the 0dB reference signal, and channel 2 for the alternative low level signal. Since the SDG will not go below 1mVpp, you’ll need an external step attenuator to get even lower levels. Even better, the step attenuator should cover the entire range of e.g. 100dB, so you can have the SDG running at a high output level and need not rely on its internal attenuators, with the benefit of only operating one device for different level tests and also minimize intermodulation distortions.

The Picture above shows the proper setup for wideband (high frequency) measurements. For audio, the resistive splitter can be as simple as just a direct connection between the two outputs (a BNC-T) and no 50 ohm input at the DUT either. But in this case I would strongly recommend an external step attenuator that can cover the entire range in order to avoid heavy loading of the generator outputs as well as the corresponding intermodulation distortions that are to be expected if there isn’t any isolation between the channels. This attenuator should then not be operated with less than 10dB, or even better yet, place some fixed attenuator between SDG output and step attenuator to ensure a minimum attenuation (and channel isolation).

Setting up a burst for both channels with the appropriate relative delay of half the burst period will then do the trick:

[attachimg=1]
Dual_Level_Result

In this example, there is a 60dB ratio between the two signal levels, consequently I needed a 16bit DSO to illustrate that.The overview window shows the gated reference signal and only the zoom reveals that there is a weak 2nd signal level present.

 
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Offline n3mmr

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Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
« Reply #1199 on: October 26, 2019, 09:42:26 am »
Performa01:

Thanks for the analysis and test run!

I hadn't really thought through what a 16bit awg could actually do in respect of maintaining a good waveform at widely differing levels.
I had hoped the 2122 would use vga;s or vary the ref voltage in the dac for some part of the output level setting process but I haven't tried to determine that yet.
My burst question popped up in my mind while shopping wine and I wrote the post on my phone then and there.
 


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