Author Topic: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread  (Read 258016 times)

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Online TheSteve

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Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
« Reply #425 on: June 18, 2016, 05:39:42 pm »
Can the firmware be unpacked manually so we can see the passwd and shadow files? Would be fun to see how long a password cracker would take.
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Offline CustomEngineerer

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Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
« Reply #426 on: June 18, 2016, 07:11:35 pm »
I had a similar thought earlier and grabbed the passwd and shadow files from the previous firmware and tried running John the Ripper against them but its been so long since I have used John or anything like it that I'm probably not really doing it the correct way. The couple of ways I tried it produced no results.
 

Online tautech

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Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
« Reply #427 on: June 18, 2016, 08:48:46 pm »
Rob, have you heard anything about Siglent every actually selling the bandwidth upgrades? I currently have no use for >40MHz, but if I ever get to that point that was something I was hoping would finally be available. And it seems like with each new firmware Siglent attempts to close the hacking hole, at least partially, so hacking may not be an option at that time. Though I would be perfectly happy paying for the extra bandwidth, just not a completely new generator to get it.
Nothing at all, not even a mention in my pricelists. All I have been told is BW upgrade functionality had slowly been added to all ranges in case it was prudent to offer it as a saleable option in the future.
My guess is when there's enough units in the field and enough inquiry/demand for upgrades they'll enable/offer them.
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Offline gby

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Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
« Reply #428 on: June 18, 2016, 09:31:23 pm »
I have given this update a workout for a few hours.  So far the new functions, bug fixes are great and I have not noticed any new issues.  This version fixed a number of issues for us when using the two channels at the same frequency.  Nice smooth output waveforms when changing frequency now!

Overall a great update.  Thank you Siglent.
 

Offline CustomEngineerer

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Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
« Reply #429 on: June 19, 2016, 03:29:04 am »
Nothing at all, not even a mention in my pricelists. All I have been told is BW upgrade functionality had slowly been added to all ranges in case it was prudent to offer it as a saleable option in the future.
My guess is when there's enough units in the field and enough inquiry/demand for upgrades they'll enable/offer them.

Thanks for the info. Just seems odd that they have the capability but don't seem interested in making any money off of it. Not that I needed it now anyway, so definitely not complaining.

As far as adding a username/password to the telnet login, of course it would appear that they are trying to prevent the free upgrades, though it could just be Siglent trying to make the generators more secure. Its not a good idea to have a completely open way to remote into a machine. Most people would know that you shouldn't have your test equipment hooked up to a public facing network, but I'm sure with how many people are buying these that not everybody takes those precautions, so whatever you can to do make it harder for someone else to take over your generator, the better.
 

Offline CustomEngineerer

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Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
« Reply #430 on: June 19, 2016, 04:55:23 pm »
I figured that since there is no guarantee that the bandwidth upgrades will ever be for sell, and since Siglent is almost certainly trying to close up the holes that allow the free bandwidth upgrades (moving license file to a read only mounted drive with the previous firmware update, and adding telnet username/password with the current firmware update), that it was probably a good idea to go ahead and perform the hack now. I can confirm that updating to the new firmware with the hack already in place does work. I followed the guide from ghulands, though one issue I noticed after I had done the hack. Step 7 & 8 say

7. Use the down arrow to navigate to the line which has '<license><bandwidth_update_license>xxxx</bandwidth_update_license></license>'
8. Press dd to delete the line. Press ESC. Type :wq then hit enter (write quit)

Everyone else's file may not be like mine (though probably is). The line in my file looked like

<license><bandwidth_update_license>xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx</bandwidth_update_license></license></system_information>

So when I deleted this line, I was also deleting the closing </system_information> tag, causing the generator to report my serial number as the default serial number instead of the correct serial number. I ended up restoring my original file, then deleted the whole line up to but not including the system_information closing tag, so that line in my NSP_system_info.xml ended up just being

</system_information>

Then when I checked my serial number in the Utilitly->System Info the correct serial number showed for my generator.
 

Offline CustomEngineerer

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Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
« Reply #431 on: June 19, 2016, 05:35:43 pm »
Found another bug.  Set the output to a 5dBm sine wave.  Use the dial to reduce it in 1dBm steps.  It won't go negative.
Set the output to -5dBm.  Turn the dial to go positive.  It won't let you turn it back down to -5dBm again.  Once negative you can go up and down, but it refuses to cross 0dBm going downwards.

I never tested this one before the update (have no reason to doubt you), but just tried it after updating to the new firmware and it is fixed.
 

Online tautech

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Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
« Reply #432 on: June 19, 2016, 05:44:23 pm »
Found another bug.  Set the output to a 5dBm sine wave.  Use the dial to reduce it in 1dBm steps.  It won't go negative.
Set the output to -5dBm.  Turn the dial to go positive.  It won't let you turn it back down to -5dBm again.  Once negative you can go up and down, but it refuses to cross 0dBm going downwards.

I never tested this one before the update (have no reason to doubt you), but just tried it after updating to the new firmware and it is fixed.
Holy hell.  O0
I only reported it on the 2nd of June after I confirmed for myself there was indeed a problem.  :clap:


Any outstanding bug fixes needed guys?
Sorry can't promise any fixes that fast again, they must've been in the middle of this new FW or it'd been reported from elsewhere.
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Offline CustomEngineerer

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Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
« Reply #433 on: June 19, 2016, 06:08:29 pm »
Thats probably the case, this firmware has been in development for a while, but still great that they were able to get this fix in that quickly.
 

Offline MasterTech

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Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
« Reply #434 on: June 20, 2016, 12:56:12 am »
Update done, no problems. Really useful "Wave Combine" menu is available now
 

Online bson

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Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
« Reply #435 on: June 20, 2016, 08:40:46 am »
Update done, no problems. Really useful "Wave Combine" menu is available now
Yeah, that's really neat!
 

Offline billfernandez

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Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
« Reply #436 on: June 20, 2016, 08:59:08 am »
That Wave Combine feature looks pretty neat.

I thin that if I didn't follow this thread I'd never learn about all the new things Siglent sneaks into each firmware update.
 

Offline Siglent America

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Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
« Reply #437 on: June 20, 2016, 10:38:59 pm »
Installed new firmware, no problems so far.

Thanks very much for keeping this up to date. The output sync and the bug fixes are very helpful to me, much appreciated. Based on my experience and this kind of support, my employer now has 4 of these generators, and is has purchased some additional equipment as well. Please pass this along to the powers that be at Siglent, because I would like this kind of support to continue.

John


Hi John.
We appreciate your comments. I forwarded them to the product manager and VP of Engineering at the factory.
Steve
 

Offline CustomEngineerer

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Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
« Reply #438 on: June 21, 2016, 02:37:27 pm »
Had a little time to play around with the new Wave Combine functionality. Very nice touch, if you have one channel output the combined waveform of CH1 + CH2, the other channel can put out its original uncombined waveform or the combined waveform like the first channel.

For the following screenshots, channel 1 is set up as a 1MHz, 1Vpp square wave, channel 2 is 1MHz, 1Vpp sine wave.

CH1 Switch = CH1 + CH2

DS2_QuickPrint1.png - Wave Combine turned off
CH1 Switch = CH1
CH2 Switch = CH2


DS2_QuickPrint2.png - Channel 1 outputting combined waveform, channel 2 outputting original
CH1 Switch = CH1 + CH2
CH2 Switch = CH2


DS2_QuickPrint3.png - Channel 1 outputting original waveform, channel 2 outputting combined
CH1 Switch = CH1
CH2 Switch = CH1 + CH2


DS2_QuickPrint4.png - Both channel 1 and channel 2 outputting combined waveform
CH1 Switch = CH1 + CH2
CH2 Switch = CH1 + CH2
« Last Edit: June 21, 2016, 02:39:18 pm by CustomEngineerer »
 

Offline buyman

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Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
« Reply #439 on: June 24, 2016, 04:04:23 am »
Just a quick question: basically the hack is working until P21R2 from one week ago?

I do not really need a signal generator, but if I buy one know I'd rather stick with one which is "upgradable" and the ones available know, e.g. at Batronix should still have the old firmware(s).
 

Online tautech

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Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
« Reply #440 on: June 24, 2016, 06:09:10 am »
Welcome to the forum.

Any dealers that have existing stock more than likely they will have older FW so you should be able to buy with confidence, this thread will get updates to your hack question in the next week or so, best you keep an eye on it.  ;)

Edit
Some analysis of the new FW is happening.  ;)
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ads-firmware-file-format/msg968465/#msg968465
« Last Edit: June 24, 2016, 06:43:08 am by tautech »
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Offline highwayman

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Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
« Reply #441 on: June 24, 2016, 12:12:30 pm »
Just a quick question: basically the hack is working until P21R2 from one week ago?

I think that most others mileage may vary, but I cannot telnet thru PuTTY or Linux after upgrading to P17R5 months ago.  I have a username/password at the PuTTY telnet login.  Or no viable connection in Linux.  Good luck!
 

Offline kmike

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Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
« Reply #442 on: June 24, 2016, 10:00:19 pm »
Just a quick question: basically the hack is working until P21R2 from one week ago?

I think that most others mileage may vary, but I cannot telnet thru PuTTY or Linux after upgrading to P17R5 months ago.  I have a username/password at the PuTTY telnet login.  Or no viable connection in Linux.  Good luck!

If You dont mind taking the generator apart, the upgrade is still possible using the serial port header on the processor board.
Look in the other thread mentioned above, I have posted the pinout there.

br,
mike
 
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Offline janekivi

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Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
« Reply #443 on: June 25, 2016, 02:37:17 am »
SDG2042X has open telnet port with no user name or password required. 

I just connected with Putty.exe to the network IP address on port 23 and got right in with no request for a user name or password.
So, I had a look around to see how the system was configured.  No surprise it is Linux based running on an ARM 7 CPU.
It was a bit of a surprise to see the log on message say "SDG800 project" which tells me that the SDG2000 FW is based on the
SDG800 FW in some way. 

Turns out they all based on SDG800
 

Offline Timpert

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Isolated outputs update
« Reply #444 on: June 25, 2016, 09:02:48 pm »
Hi all,

Here's an update on my attempts to isolate the generator's outputs from ground. The basic idea is to make an add-on board that contains signal isolators between CPU and generator board, and to float the power supply by adding a DC DC converter to power the CPU board. The generator board can then be floated. I have finished the feasibility research (I told you the progress was going to be slow), but before I share the conclusion, here are the criteria that I had written down for myself before I started.

  • The mod must result in outputs that are no longer connected to safety earth, with as little capacitance to earth as feasible.
  • There may be no performance or functionality penalty: apart from the outputs becoming floating, the instrument must keep on functioning exactly like it did before the mod
  • The safety and EMI performance of the generator may not be compromised
  • The mod must be reversible
  • No hacks or botches, it must be a neat mod that is easy to carry out

I have probed all the signals on the little flat flex that connects the CPU board to the signal generator board, and here's what I found:

  • All data is exchanged between CPU and GEN board via a single four wire SPI interface. During normal operation, it is clocked at 24 Mhz and it operates bidirectionally. The FPGA is also configured over this interface, the CPU supplies the bitstream. During FPGA configuration it runs at the maximum speed of 48 MHz but no data is sent back from the FPGA to the CPU. So a quick isolator such as the MAX14931C should do the job, although a typical device  having no more than 6 ns propagation delay will be needed, or otherwise the propagation delay on the return data will be too much.
  • Next to the SPI interface there are four FPGA contol lines, three to control the configuration process (ARM_PROG, ARM_INIT and ARM_DONE), and one to reset the FPGA after configuration is complete (ARM_RESET). These are slow signals and should present no problems to isolate. On the GEN board there is a small 25P40 flash device, but that is not addressed until after FPGA configuration has completed. It is accessed by the FPGA through a dedicated interface, not through the board-to-board SPI interface on the FFC. I wonder why it's there. EDIT: probably contains calibration data.
  • The AD_CS line signal is an active low signal from GEN to CPU, causing an overvoltage error to be displayed. Why they called this "AD_CS" is a mystery to me.
  • The P_ON line has a 10 kOhms resistor to ground on the GEN board, and that seems to be all. The CPU board seems to contain the upper half resistor of a voltage divider with the P_ON signal being the tie point. It looks to me like some sort of board detect and identification feature, so that the CPU can tell in which device it lives by looking at the value of this resistor.
  • There are two signals called TP11 and TP13, but I could not detect any activity on these in any stage of operation of the generator. They are pulled down on the CPU board, and seemingly unused on the GEN board. To check, I took a compatible piece of flat flex (source: ebay) of which I cut the conductors of TP_11 and TP_13 away. The generator worked normally with this FFC between CPU and GEN. So these signals do not need to cross the isolation barrier.
  • The remaining four wires are two 3.3V supplies (which are not connected ad the GEN side, since it has it's own supply) and two grounds, so all the thingamabobs that go from CPU to GEN and back are now identified.

Miscellaneous things I needed to find out:

  • The CPU board works from the +6.5 V supply, it also powers the front panel and the display. The combination of CPU board + display + front panel draws about 3 Watts during peaks, so a small DC DC converter is sufficient to isolate its power supply from the GEN board's.
  • The EMI suppression cap across the transformer in the power supply causes a leakage current of about 80 uA RMS @ 50 Hz to flow from the primary side to the secondary side. With the output hard grounded, this is not an issue, but it has to be dealt with when the outputs must float. The SDG5000 has the same issue with the PSU due to the same EMI suppression scheme being used, in this generator the leakage current is shunted away by a 3 uF capacitance to ground. Without extensive modifications to the power supply (yes, I have researched that option too in order to be able to use a low capacitance to ground, but it would involve making an entirely new double shielded transformer), this is the way to go here too.
  • The GEN board has its ground connected to all mounting holes, so these need to be isolated. The screws on the GEN board have an accurate fit with the chassis studs, and the holes in the board are only very slightly oversized with respect to the screw diameter. TO220 isolating washers are not going to work here. In order for the EMI suppression scheme to remain effective, each stud needs to be capacitively coupled to the corresponding mounting hole. However, there is no room for the GEN board to be raised by about 1.5 mm. So this would require something like two lug washers on top of each other, connected together via a small capacitor, and separated by a nylon washer. This would then go underneath the GEN board at every mounting stud, and be tied down with a nylon screw. In order to compensate for the height increase, the studs would have to be milled or filed down.

Making a neat board containing the signal isolators and CPU power isolated dc/dc converter appears entirely doable to me. The BNCs can be isolated from chassis by replacing them with plastic ones (there should be drop-in replacements for them) or by using washers. The last point in this list is a potential deal breaker, because it requires an irreversible mod to the chassis though, and one that has the potential to end up ugly. Strictly speaking, it can not be done in a way that satisfies my criteria. If anyone has an alternative idea, please share.

At the moment, the project is on hold, because the CPU died right after a firmware upgrade. I don't know how it happened, it looks like a nasty ESD event, but I use all the usual precautions against that. The firmware upgrade went according to the book, I played around with the neat new features for a while after the upgrade was finished, but when I pulled out the USB stick, the generator crashed. After power cycling it remained dead. The CPU's power supply IC gets rather hot, and the CPU seems to be completely dead. None of the I/O lines show any activity, including the lines that control access to the onboard flash. So the failure to boot is not due to flash corruption, it already comes before that. The LCD backlight supply stays off due to this, because the CPU must turn it on. I bought the generator from Elektor (it was on offer a while ago), so I am awaiting their response before attempting a repair myself. I know that I probably have voided all my warranty rights by opening the generator and probing around in it, but let's wait and see.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2016, 06:02:04 am by Timpert »
 

Online tautech

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Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
« Reply #445 on: June 25, 2016, 09:19:13 pm »
@Timpert
Nice analysis.  :-+

Sorry to hear of your mishap, all I can for you say is bugger.

WRT your isolation mod, did you consider a plugin module with BNC bulkhead females spaced to connect directly to the generators outputs, be powered from the USB and provide isolation to BNC males on the other side of the module.

Much in the same way the Siglent ISFE is constructed, although it uses F-F BNC adapters.



http://www.siglentamerica.com/prodcut-fjxx.aspx?fjid=404&id=4688&tid=1&T=2
These are for DSO input isolation and have 200:1 attenuation therefore not suitable for AWG outputs.
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Offline Timpert

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Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
« Reply #446 on: June 25, 2016, 10:04:06 pm »
@ Tautech,

Yes, I did consider making an external add-on to provide analog isolation. But it would probably be more expensive than adding isolation between CPU and GEN boards, and it would also degrade signal quality. 40 MHz is quite a tall order for such a thing... It seems to me as counterproductive to buy a generator for its good signal quality, and then degrade it with an add-on.

Quote
all I can for you say is bugger

Thanks for the comforting words.  ;)

I actually expect Elektor to deny me any warranty rights, I would have done the same in their position. Fair enough, that's a risk I took when pulling off the shiny Siglent sticker. But I won't know for sure until I have asked, maybe they're cool...

When I get a "njet" from them, I think I'll first try to replace the CPU as an exciting BGA replacement exercise, and if that doesn't work, I'll just have to swap the entire CPU board for a new one. Any idea where I could get one?
 

Offline 11Bravo49417

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Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
« Reply #447 on: June 26, 2016, 02:15:53 am »
I wish to purchase one of the older "hackable" versions of this unit from Saelig (or other distributor).  How do I ensure the firmware is old enough on the unit I am purchasing?  Also, how do I get the distributors EEVBlog discount code? 
 

Offline MasterTech

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Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
« Reply #448 on: June 26, 2016, 02:25:58 am »
I wish to purchase one of the older "hackable" versions of this unit from Saelig (or other distributor).  How do I ensure the firmware is old enough on the unit I am purchasing?  Also, how do I get the distributors EEVBlog discount code?
I dont see wheres the problem, since version 21R2 is downgradable to 17R5 which has the open ethernet port, at least mine did
 

Offline CustomEngineerer

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Re: The Siglent SDG2042X Thread
« Reply #449 on: June 26, 2016, 02:50:05 am »
I have also been able to upgrade to 21R2 and downgrade back to 17R5 at will. But since the new 21R2 firmware just came out last week, I seriously doubt many suppliers are even shipping them with 21R2 yet.

For the discounts, if you want to buy from Saelig, they have a thread on this forum where they first announced they would honor the eevblog discount, its usually never more than a page or two back. Just post in it that you are looking to purchase something from them and someone will PM you the discount code. Tequipment also has a similar thread if you are looking at ordering from them.

Edit: You could also just ask them what version firmware is on the ones they are selling before you place your order. Though again, version shouldn't really matter.

Edit2: Tequipment no longer carries Siglent gear (thanks for reminder Tautech). Though they do still offer an eevblog discount for the things they actually sell.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2016, 07:13:35 am by CustomEngineerer »
 


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