Time to split up the T&M categories?

[EEVblog]

I just noticed the Test Equipment section has over 300,000 posts, the one with more posts is general chat.
And given that I'm always promoting this as "the biggest T&M forum on the interwebs" (and it is), have just one big category for everything now seems kinda dumb.
I know that has been debated several time before, maybe time to ask the question again?

Test Equipment would get its own top level category and then sub categories for different types of gear.
Oscilloscopes
Multimeters
Power Suppplies
etc

Let me know what categories you'd like to see.
And I can seed the new sections with old threads moved across, but with 13,000 threads I won't be able to move them all.

I would keep the Products section (and maybe expand that if anyone has any ideas?)

What say you all...

[H.O]

I think it's fine as it is (and my vote reflects that).
If you have a child-category for scopes, then I can see fanboys/vendors for manufacturer xyz wanting a grandchild-category for "their" brand and then...?

I can certainly see something like a Wiki being divided up like that because you go there to look up something specific but this is mainly a discussion forum. Yes, crucial information (like how to calibrate a specific multimeter or where to find the latest hack for whatever) can sometimes be buried deep in some thread but I don't think having dozens of categories makes finding it any easier.

Have a look at the CNCZone forum for a good (bad) example of how it can go.

Well, that's my 2 eurocents.

[JPortici]

I think that may be good, esp. for more obscure/less popular types of equipment
but not too many sub sections please! Too many can be too dispersive.. And it won't be followed by noobs/illiterate/oblivious people that don't know what netiquette is, how to post on forums and such things... you know the kind that will post on most active section because they think that their thread will be seen first

At least THIS forum is moderated so the thread can be moved or deleted..

Anyway, i'm with the "Yes, but just a couple of major categories" crowd.
Maybe something like
-Oscilloscopes/Generators
-SA/RF (Also RF Meters?)
-Power Supply/DC Load (Also Meters?)
-Multimeters
-Vintage equipment (why not?)

But one thing for sure: DON'T do a sub category for every manufacturer. Every mfg in the same category will promote confront

[dzseki]

-Oscilloscopes/Generators
-SA/RF (Also RF Meters?)
-Power Supply/DC Load (Also Meters?)
-Multimeters
-Vintage equipment (why not?)

I would not suggest separate category for vintage gear because a.) it would eventually fit in to any of the categories anyway b.) there is no clear mark from what point something counts as vintage.

[Fungus]

No need. There's not really many new threads created here, if there's a lot of posts it's usually in very few threads.

Number of threads is much more relevant than number of posts.

[Fungus]

I would not suggest separate category for vintage gear because a.) it would eventually fit in to any of the categories anyway b.) there is no clear mark from what point something counts as vintage.

It's "vintage" when it smells vintage, not before.

[BravoV]

I think, prioritize at improving the forum's search capabilities is much more important, than splitting the forum into finer sub-sections.

Besides, still numbers of people, even regulars, love to post "randomly" at different section, see how General Area section filled by threads on technical matters like multi-meter, oscilloscope etc that already have their own section.

My 2 cents.

[joeqsmith]

Was going to say, you almost need a age to define vintage.   

Maybe something like
-Oscilloscopes/Generators
-SA/RF (Also RF Meters?)
-Power Supply/DC Load (Also Meters?)
-Multimeters
-Vintage equipment (why not?)

If you are going to break it up, please make it clear.  For example,   I have a 1970's vintage RF generator I am working on.   Does it go in Generators, RF or vintage?  Perhaps Repair....

- Multimeters
- Oscilloscopes/Logic Analyzers
- Power Supply/DC Load
- Generators
- Spectrum/Network Analyzers

Still, I have a scopemeter.  Does it go under Multimeters or Oscilloscopes....  My vote is for a few major categories, or keep it the same.   

[tv84]

@Dave,

Sometimes I think about it but quickly forget the idea. One big advantage is that people can quickly see other themes that we would not search. And many brand problems, questions, etc tend to sweep the whole range of equipments of that specific brand.

I think, prioritize at improving the forum's search capabilities is much more important, than splitting the forum into finer sub-sections.

Besides, still numbers of people, even regulars, love to post "randomly" at different section, see how General Area section filled by threads on technical matters like multi-meter, oscilloscope etc that already have their own section.

My 2 cents.

Agree 100% with BravoV ! I would love a better search. Most times google is better in searching things inside the forum.

[tautech]

Er well, there are 5 DMM sticky threads that could then go into their own child board. 

Otherwise leave things be.

[beanflying]

T&M gear is to diverse and has some crossovers even from the possible major categories let alone what does or doesn't go into Metrology that is also T&M.

Leave it alone and add a better option for site search instead of the stock clunky one that defaults to searching from the layer you are viewing only. This will help threads getting found.

This is the mod I used to use for search improvement https://custom.simplemachines.org/mods/index.php?mod=1634 It may be out of date with the current version of SMF but it does look ok for 2.0.15.

[Fludo]

How would you categorize something like a NI Virtual bench? It is an oscilloscope, function generator, power supply, and multimeter.  The device could be placed in any one of the sub categories, and it would be harder to find information on it. I prefer broad categories by function to individual listings by instrument.
For example:

• Data Acquisition - Oscilloscopes, SMUs, multi-meters, system controllers, power/spectrum analyzers.
• Sources- Function generators, power supplies, synthesizers, current/voltage standards
• Sensors- Current and voltage transducers, pressure, flow, temperature, etc.
• Uncategorized- Questions about what something is, brand discussions, antique equipment, etc.

[Fungus]

I think, prioritize at improving the forum's search capabilities is much more important, than splitting the forum into finer sub-sections.

Simple fix: Remove the search box, tell people to use google.

Agree 100% with BravoV ! I would love a better search. Most times google is better in searching things inside the forum.

See above.

[Tomorokoshi]

As for a new category, I would like one that is something like, "Standards, Approval Agencies, EMC, etc.". This could collect up topics that are randomly distributed across General, Test, and Projects.

[Fungus]

Er well, there are 5 DMM sticky threads that could then go into their own child board. 

Otherwise leave things be.

I only count 3.

[Mr. Scram]

I don't disagree with dividing the section up a bit more, but I haven't quite decided what would be a good way of doing it. Making categories for each type of device makes sense, but I worry many stagnant sections would be the result. There's also the risk of creating bubbles. I like being confronted with things I'm not familiar with yet.

[Specmaster]

Personally I think the best option is to enhance the search function. It would seem to me that would bring benefits to every user regardless of their interests so its a win situation all round. Often you get replys from other members because they can see your post while reading others, that might not happen if you sub divide it and that would be a sad thing if that happened.

Sent from my POT-LX1 using Tapatalk

[Mr. Scram]

Personally I think the best option is to enhance the search function. It would seem to me that would bring benefits to every user regardless of their interests so its a win situation all round. Often you get replys from other members because they can see your post while reading others, that might not happen if you sub divide it and that would be a sad thing if that happened.

Sent from my POT-LX1 using Tapatalk

Just use Google and specify that it should only look at this forum. There's no way a third party search function can compete. Doing a good search is hard.

[Fungus]

Personally I think the best option is to enhance the search function. It would seem to me that would bring benefits to every user regardless of their interests so its a win situation all round.

Maybe the search box could simply redirect to google instead of using the internal functions. All you need to do is add "site:eevblog.com" to the search terms to restrict results to this site.

[beanflying]

The SMF mod link I posted above includes a Google site search as part of it.

[EEVblog]

Have a look at the CNCZone forum for a good (bad) example of how it can go.

 

[Muttley Snickers]

I think, prioritize at improving the forum's search capabilities is much more important, than splitting the forum into finer sub-sections.

I agree and often use Google search slash EEVblog to find stuff but people and in particular newbies need to be reminded to do a proper search of the forum before creating new threads otherwise we end up with numerous threads with the same content and conversation.

Er well, there are 5 DMM sticky threads that could then go into their own child board. 

Definitely Dave's call on this subject, perhaps we could have a dedicated EEVblog Products & Support board with individual sub-sections for each EEVblog product, all together in the one place.

[wilfred]

I don't disagree with dividing the section up a bit more, but I haven't quite decided what would be a good way of doing it. Making categories for each type of device makes sense, but I worry many stagnant sections would be the result. There's also the risk of creating bubbles. I like being confronted with things I'm not familiar with yet.

I do too. But I enter the forum via the show new posts option which keeps new posts visible regardless of how the categories fall.. I suspect a lot of members do. Not guests tho.

10% of the posts are in just one thread and I wouldn't be surprised if half the posts are in less than 100 threads. If you look at the titles of the 100 most popular threads what categories would you use?

Where would the ESR meter thread go? The TEA thread? Half of that one should be in general chat. It functions as a community gathering place. Pretty well too.

Is there an actual problem with it as it is that will be solved? If we knew that it might help.

An improved search facility would help find things more than adjusting categories.

[EEVblog]

This is the mod I used to use for search improvement https://custom.simplemachines.org/mods/index.php?mod=1634 It may be out of date with the current version of SMF but it does look ok for 2.0.15.

Installed, try it!

[Eric_S]

My vote is to leave it as is.

This forum subcategory isn't that fast, and honestly the forum is a bit too split up for my taste as is.

But, your call Dave.

[joeqsmith]

Er well, there are 5 DMM sticky threads that could then go into their own child board. 

Otherwise leave things be.

I only count 3.

3 for the 121GW alone.   Maybe the 121 needs it's own special category.

[tv84]

Installed, try it!

Much better! I can live with this.

[Muttley Snickers]

Installed, try it!

Much better! I can live with this.

I just tested the search feature again and it's still buggered, using "politicians" as the search word it returned thirteen pages with fifty results per page, the first two pages display as expected but the third page was blank, further searches do not show any results at all.

[beanflying]

This is the mod I used to use for search improvement https://custom.simplemachines.org/mods/index.php?mod=1634 It may be out of date with the current version of SMF but it does look ok for 2.0.15.

Installed, try it!

  Works like it did on earlier versions. I did also play with the menu system to put it back into there but a potential PITA when a new SMF version comes along.

[tv84]

You could also correct the search to accept the "between quotes" and do the exact search of what is quoted.

Example: "black scope" should retrieve only the pages that have "black scope" and not "black" + "scope".

[DaJMasta]

I think if you're going to split off from the main T&M category, it would be best to put them into another existing category, or to reform them with existing categories, so that you're not splitting up traffic too much.

While this forum gets a lot of posts, it also means posting things here get a lot of views, so if the topic is sort of on the fence with other categories, putting it here almost always results in more frequent replies, and for people who have some experience with something specific but don't visit the forum specific to it as often, it will probably even get good replies from people who wouldn't have otherwise found it.  Splitting things up too much in forums seems to just reduce the view count for threads sometimes, so it's not always that helpful.

That being said, if you split off specific kinds of the test equipment into other forums (Metrology does this well with almost all the calibrator and 7.5 digit+ meter threads ending up there, as does thermal imaging), you may be able to reduce the focus on this one forum to help keep other ones going.  Something like moving spectrum analyzer threads to the RF forum, or maybe moving precision timing threads over to Metrology (some already go there) could be useful for categorization and help spread the traffic to other forums more evenly.

Maybe making another for a specific subset of equipment is still valuable, though I don't know what would be best, but too many divisions I think wouldn't be worthwhile.

[SparkyFX]

I have not many questions to ask or answers to give on the EEVBlog Forum, so i usually visit single categories and check the first page for new content to see if something interesting is in for me, so if there is not enough activity per category, i would stay away. If too many other users do that too, topics would not get answered.

So imho the rate of posts per day is more important than absolute post count. I mean it is the active users that make the forum work, things should be oriented toward their use case (survey appreciated). And of course newbies need to be able to navigate to the right place, so regular users and new users need to be able to keep it working. A lot depends on the category description.

Other options to adding categories would be to generally increase quality of content (not saying it is bad..., it is another method to escape the clutter), by implementing a second order information upcycling like FAQ-Lists (!!) or a Wiki (imho horrible to moderate and organize). The search is of course very important and topics that do not name the subject or the right keywords are a lost case in whatever category they are in... never gonna find that old thread with the important information without the keywords stated in it. Not all threads require naming a make and model, but well, this is the Products->Test Equipment category, most probably do and good threads contain that information and are therefore found more often.

I usually favor these over other methods, because people that complain about others cluttering the forum can be sent that way to ... maintain an FAQ or do a good writeup on a subject that can be pinned or linked in a fixed place.

Category, age or absolute post count would not matter as long as the search can find it, but the content needs to be filled in by active users that visit these areas.
Another effect to consider: the more context is provided by a category a certain content is in, the more of this context is left out in the actual thread by whoever writes it, making this context unavailable as keywords.

Forums are complicated... and complaining is easy. I´d wait till there are new posts to fill the first page within a day before splitting into subcategories.

[genghisnico13]

One possibility to keep everyone happy could be to add the categories but keep the T&M landing page as it is, with all the post from all it's sub-categories, this wouldn't bother the people that would like to keep it as it is (me included) but would also allow a better way to classify and find old threads without the need to search. And if we go even further, nesting this concept we could have sub-categories for example the category scopes could have a sub-category for each manufacturer, probably making reps jobs easier.
Maybe something similar could be done with tags, so a thread can be part of several sub-categories, for example #scope #analog #tek or something like that, from a predefined list of available tags.

[tkamiya]

I'd like to see a split along manufacturers.

HP/Agilent/whatever
Tektronix
Fluke
Rigol/Siglent/etc
all else

[tggzzz]

I'll note in passing and without comment that 10% of the posts in the Test Equipment subforum are in one thread.

Anyway, you are suggesting an enhanced taxonomy of test equipment. The disadvantages are well known.

Any taxonomy (that doesn't allow a thread to be in more than one branch) can only indicate where threads aren't - not where they are. For example, in one taxonomy an HP Oscilloscope thread wouldn't be in the Tektronix or PSU branch, but could be in the "HP" branch or the "Oscilloscope" branch.

Hence, the more branches, the more places it might be and the more places it isn't.

For me a worse problem than not having enough sub-forums is that there are too many posts that are buried in deep in a thread, when future readers would benefit from them being spun out into separate thread. The ginormous 2465 thread contains many of those.

[wilfred]

I have not many questions to ask or answers to give on the EEVBlog Forum, so i usually visit single categories and check the first page for new content to see if something interesting is in for me, so if there is not enough activity per category, i would stay away. If too many other users do that too, topics would not get answered.

I think you make a good point. I sorted the T&M category in reverse order of replies and 1500 threads have no replies.

[nctnico]

I have not many questions to ask or answers to give on the EEVBlog Forum, so i usually visit single categories and check the first page for new content to see if something interesting is in for me, so if there is not enough activity per category, i would stay away. If too many other users do that too, topics would not get answered.

I agree with that. Previous category splits have made me visit a smaller part of the forum. Potentially missing interesting stuff but out of sheer lazyness I'm not going through every category even though it may be of interest. IMHO a forum should be like a magazine you flip through so you also get to see the stuff you are normally not interested in but may be useful. Lead you away from your own beaten path.

[The Soulman]

Only a couple sub forums should suffice to de-clutter things.

Test equipment
--> News (new products and speculating)
--> Product (purchasing) advice (what chinese cro is less bad discussions are also driveling on in here)
--> Hacking/modding
--> Test equipment repair (is currently divided between "repair" and "test equipment" sections)
--> Tear-downs and general bragging
--> ?

Dividing by brands or vintage or operating voltage or whatever will end up in a huge mess. imho

[nctnico]

Perhaps the repair of test equipment should be brought back into the test equipment section.

[EEVblog]

Poll is almost split down the middle again, not really an overwhelming majority for it...

[EEVblog]

Only a couple sub forums should suffice to de-clutter things.
Test equipment
--> News (new products and speculating)
--> Product (purchasing) advice (what chinese cro is less bad discussions are also driveling on in here)
--> Hacking/modding
--> Test equipment repair (is currently divided between "repair" and "test equipment" sections)
--> Tear-downs and general bragging

The problem with a News section I see is that new scopes get added there and then we end up with a 100 page forum thread in the news section for a particular bit of kit.
I guess maybe you could later move it from News to Scopes but then that's extra work to maintain and the old URL remains.

[EEVblog]

Hence, the more branches, the more places it might be and the more places it isn't.

True.

[xrunner]

Test Equipment would get its own top level category and then sub categories for different types of gear.
Oscilloscopes
Multimeters
Power Suppplies
etc

Well I don't see anything wrong with the idea. Put the obvious major categories in. Are you going to get volunteers to sort out the old threads and move them to new categories or just let the new posts go where they are supposed to be?

I'd volunteer to help but it might take several months.

[beanflying]

Test Equipment would get its own top level category and then sub categories for different types of gear.
Oscilloscopes
Multimeters
Power Suppplies
etc

Well I don't see anything wrong with the idea. Put the obvious major categories in. Are you going to get volunteers to sort out the old threads and move them to new categories or just let the new posts go where they are supposed to be?

I'd volunteer to help but it might take several months.

The other issue and while it may not worry Dave to much is the major hit to built up search index results over time if you start shoving threads around. I have forgotten how friendly url's react to moved threads but I am fairly certain the category will change from memory.

We already have three principal categories where T&M threads exist adding more is more dilution and I suspect less views of those threads as people don't go in for a look.

Until the last week or so for example I simply didn't follow the Thermal Imaging section as I haven't owned or felt the need for one (playing catch up bigtime). The renewables thread is of zero interest to me currently and I can't think of the last time I crossed into it. In both cases I have missed scanning the thread titles minimum which is the first reason to read if it sounds interesting.

[Housedad]

Re-arranging or minor splits may be needed, but look at this dilemma I have found on other  technical forums like welding, bullet casting, or a physics group.  For the well educated enthusiast or pro,  they  can be very happy with a narrowly defined area of interest.  But for the novice or like me, still striving to learn, those restricted areas limit exposure to ideas, concepts and equipment that I would normally never see.  Having the interests intermixed has exposed me to many concepts that I have followed and learned, that I may not have incidentally run into, from just seeing a question or something in a thread title.

[bitseeker]

Having well-defined content structure is good when it's professionally maintained. It's not so good in a public forum where most people are focused on what they're writing, not the forum's taxonomy.

Broad categories can already be problematic (fixing a DMM = Repair, Test Equipment, both?). Having more granularity and depth just increases the cognitive load and potential confusion for posters.

A more flexible way to organize and discover content is by applying tags to posts since they're not limited by a rigid taxonomy. However, most people are focused on what they're writing, not figuring out how best to maintain the forum and its content.

So, although I like organization, I think simpler is better for the forum.

---

As for the size of the TEA thread, I hadn't realized it was 10% of the TE forum. It's a good thing TE lovers are friendly.

[EEVblog]

Re-arranging or minor splits may be needed, but look at this dilemma I have found on other  technical forums like welding, bullet casting, or a physics group.  For the well educated enthusiast or pro,  they  can be very happy with a narrowly defined area of interest.

That could be the trick here.
I'd hazard a guess that if you like test equipment then you are going to have an interest in most types of test equipment, so one section covers it well. Unlike things like the Metrology and Rf sections that really do have their own narrow focused groups.

[tggzzz]

Having well-defined content structure is good when it's professionally maintained. It's not so good in a public forum where most people are focused on what they're writing, not the forum's taxonomy.

Yes indeed.

Potentially more sub-forums -> more postings in the "wrong" place -> more work for moderators moving them.

[Plasmateur]

Would it be possible to add some kind of quick filter functionality? It would be like a drop down menu right above the top sticky posts.

The drop down menu would have the options
- All (default)
- Oscope
- Signal Analysers
- Function Generators
- Power Supplies
- Etc Etc Etc

I think this would require something like adding "flair" to a post, kind of like reddit?

Sometimes I come to eevblog test equipment forums looking to research one type of test equipment. 

Other times it's more for like a news site for me, where I want to see all the posts in the test equipment section, in this case it would be the default.

Alternatively each user could have their interface in one of two modes. One more would be the old eevblogs. The new mode would parse out the test equipment sections. This would have to be specified in user settings.

[tv84]

I just noticed the Test Equipment section has over 300,000 posts, the one with more posts is general chat.
And given that I'm always promoting this as "the biggest T&M forum on the interwebs" (and it is), have just one big category for everything now seems kinda dumb.

Don't break this into sub-cats!

If the section has such success with everything in the same categories, then it's the other places that are wrong.

[BravoV]

Potentially more sub-forums -> more postings in the "wrong" place -> more work for moderators moving them.

Not sure if this SMF capable of assigning "limited" power moderator ?

C'mon Dave, looking on how this forum grows, don't you think its time to add more hands ? Yourself, Simon and sometimes once in a while Gnif popped out to help, imo, is not enough.

As usual, latest forum statistic since 2010 -> Forum statistic - 18 May 2019

I'm not saying more mods for moderating, like putting ban hammer, editing out nasty post made by members or deleting spammer's thread/post made, or judging posts made.

But more like non destructive administrating works like moving newly created thread to more suitable section, just look how crowded General Area with technical subjects that supposed to be placed correctly, again, not sure if SMF supports this limited ability moderator. 

Or nominate and offer few well known trusted members, ask specifically they are not allowed to do any destructive/moderating works, only help tidying up the cluttered threads, especially once the forum is expanded into more sections as your plan.

[MadTux]

Better split would be IMO between new  and vintage instruments.

[Mr. Scram]

Better split would be IMO between new  and vintage instruments.

I can only imagine the endless whining that would cause about what is and isn't vintage.

[beanflying]

Not to mention why would you split 'vintage' gear off from the often inferior 'new' rubbish available   

[0culus]

Leave it alone is my vote. I detest forums that make a subforum for every little thing. It segments off the discussion too much.

As for vintage vs modern...here's the thing. With some TLC, great vintage gear is every bit as useful (especially for the hobbyist) as anything modern, disregarding things that did get better with time such as DSOs. Especially if you don't have the biggest budget...you can buy and fix up a lot of HP and Tek gear for the price of one of one of these new tricked out Tek 3 and 4 series scopes. It's just Test Equipment. Heck, I was reading a physics paper from just a few years ago recently where the authors used an HP 8510C VNA system for their work.

[MadTux]

Not to mention why would you split 'vintage' gear off from the often inferior 'new' rubbish available   

So I don't have to look a Chinesium rubbish when looking for old equipment teardown/repair/updates?

[beanflying]

The correct answer is TEA it's all good and doesn't discriminate

[bd139]

TEA thread could do with its own subforum 

[xrunner]

TEA thread could do with its own subforum 

Sub-TEA categories? 

Not sure if this SMF capable of assigning "limited" power moderator ?

It can definitely do that.

C'mon Dave, looking on how this forum grows, don't you think its time to add more hands ? Yourself, Simon and sometimes once in a while Gnif popped out to help, imo, is not enough.

But more like non destructive administrating works like moving newly created thread to more suitable section, just look how crowded General Area with technical subjects that supposed to be placed correctly, again, not sure if SMF supports this limited ability moderator. 

Or nominate and offer few well known trusted members, ask specifically they are not allowed to do any destructive/moderating works, only help tidying up the cluttered threads, especially once the forum is expanded into more sections as your plan.

I completely agree. I mean by this time I'm sure he can find - say - 5 or 10 trusted members out of (at this time) 50672 members. 

IMHO, the requirement that making a few more major test equipment boards is a non-issue as far as "workload" is concerned. The forum will continue to grow. Is it going to stay organized this way forever? C'mon - things need to change over time.

If you think that requires more work - it does. But that's not an excuse, again IMHO because you have FREE help that will organize any mis-posted topics. As I said, I put my money where my mouth is - I will volunteer to help do this AND to move all the topics to the proper places if new boards are created. He knows I have installed, setup, and run SMF forums so I am "qualified" (but maybe he doesn't trust me  ). But, I guarantee that you can get at least 10 trusted members to do this job. All for no cost and it will be done reliably and efficiently. I mean we can fix test equipment - don't you think we can move a topic to where it's supposed to go? 

[precaud]

I'd like to see time- and frequency-domain instruments as separate categories. Or just give scopes a separate category. That would clean things up a lot.

[bd139]

TEA thread could do with its own subforum 

Sub-TEA categories? 

Underpants, aeroplanes, 3d printing, Italian meats, delivery company complaints subforums 

[xrunner]

I was just looking at all the boards on the main forum page. Somebody mentioned having a vintage test equipment board which was kindof shot down.

But ... on a test equipment forum we get a vintage computer board, on mainly a test equipment site. But we can't have a vintage test equipment board? Doesn't make any sense to me. 

[Mr. Scram]

I was just looking at all the boards on the main forum page. Somebody mentioned having a vintage test equipment board which was kindof shot down.

But ... on a test equipment forum we get a vintage computer board, on mainly a test equipment site. But we can't have a vintage test equipment board? Doesn't make any sense to me. 

It's going to be controversial no matter what. As a matter of fact it already is controversial.

[0culus]

*snip*

Underpants, *snip*

Make this one protected like the supporters lounge. 

[tggzzz]

I'd like to see time- and frequency-domain instruments as separate categories. Or just give scopes a separate category. That would clean things up a lot.

And where would you put modulation domain analysers? They show frequency as a function of time, and I want to get one.

(Yes, I already have power-vs-time and power-vs-frequency analysers, so frequency-vs-time would complete the triumvirate)

[tggzzz]

TEA thread could do with its own subforum 

Sub-TEA categories? 

Underpants, aeroplanes, 3d printing, Italian meats, delivery company complaints subforums 

Smirk.

The only relevant one there is the last!

[Fungus]

But ... on a test equipment forum we get a vintage computer board, on mainly a test equipment site. But we can't have a vintage test equipment board? Doesn't make any sense to me. 

It does to me. Computers aren't a continuum, test gear is. A multimeter of any vintage would still be useful on my workbench, I couldn't use a vintage computer to do my job though.

PS: It's not a "test equipment forum" or "test equipment site". Only a small percentage of Dave's videos are about test gear.

[xrunner]

It does to me. Computers aren't a continuum, test gear is. A multimeter of any vintage would still be useful on my workbench, I couldn't use a vintage computer to do my job though.

Well that's for each person to decide isn't it?  Not everyone is using these items for a "job"; for example, I'm retired so I may very well have all sorts of equipment that wouldn't be used in a job. Nowhere does it say we have to talk about electronics that is used in a job.

PS: It's not a "test equipment forum" or "test equipment site". Only a small percentage of Dave's videos are about test gear.

That may be true but most topics are NOT about his videos. We're talking about the forum here not his videos. The forum is not a topic-by-topic reflection of the videos. But what is the top topic on the forum?

Well let's check the stats for an objective look see -

Top Ten Boards

#1 General Chat   345523
#2 Test Equipment    304402

Top 10 Topics (by Replies)

#1 Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

So, #2 board behind the off-topic "General Chat" is about test equipment.
#1 topic by replies is about test equipment.

Need I say more? 

But if you disagree with all that, let's decide what the forum is about"? Electronics in general and all categories of it? So what's the most logical way to divide it up (if it's about all electronics in general). If it's about all categories of electronics then why does vintage computers get a board and not vintage test equipment? Still doesn't make sense to me. But I'm going for a walk and I'll probably just move on because this sort of thing is like herding cats - nothing will be decided. 

[Fungus]

It does to me. Computers aren't a continuum, test gear is. A multimeter of any vintage would still be useful on my workbench, I couldn't use a vintage computer to do my job though.

Well that's for each person to decide isn't it?  Not everyone is using these items for a "job"; for example, I'm retired so I may very well have all sorts of equipment that wouldn't be used in a job. Nowhere does it say we have to talk about electronics that is used in a job.

Where exactly would you draw the line for "vintage" test gear? That's a huge can of worms, methinks.

[bd139]

Anything not made in China

[xrunner]

Where exactly would you draw the line for "vintage" test gear? That's a huge can of worms, methinks.

Back from walk. 

I normally don't like answering questions with questions but to prove a point ... Using your basic thought we have this -

Where exactly would you draw the line for "vintage" computers? That's a huge can of worms, methinks.

If that line can be drawn, then why not the other? 

But yet, we have that line drawn by the users as they wish. All the title says is this -

Vintage Computers
Vintage Computers and related projects

And ... what if somebody posts something about their new Ryzen 7 system on the vintage computer board? It's NOT vintage, so where would a moderator move it? To the {non} vintage computer board? Nope, because that board does not exist on the forum.

Anyway, we're all intelligent people here. It's all valid opinions. The only person that can decide what to do is Dave. I'm here no matter what happens. 

[tv84]

Anything not made in China

Good idea. More 2 categories: Made in China, Not made in China

We should do a PoC. We should split this thread in several categories: those in favor, those against, etc...

[coppercone2]

I post RF stuff to the RF forum just because it has more expertise and you need to be more  careful repairing that stuff compared to a power supply or soldering iron.

[0culus]

Another possible line to draw between vintage and non vintage: whether it's component level repairable or not. The 1990s brought a swift death to component repairable anything.

[Tomorokoshi]

Look at it as each forum topic has a type, as in datatype. I'm limiting the number of types to some arbitrary and capricious set consisting of "Applications", "Discussion", and "Engineering".

From there, we have the top 4 main categories:

Category	Type
Electronics	Engineering
Products	Applications
General	Discussion
EEVblog	Discussion

So right from the beginning there is a partial type mismatch in the main topics. Now let's look at the Electronics and Products categories in more detail:

Electronics

Forum	Type
Beginners	Discussion
Projects, Designs, and Technical Stuff	Engineering
Repair	Discussion
Microcontrollers & FPGAs	Engineering
RF, Microwave, Ham Radio	Discussion
Metrology	Engineering
Renewable Energy	Applications
Open Source Hardware	Applications
Manufacturing & Assembly	Engineering
Crowd Funded Projects	Applications
General PCB/EDA/CAD Discussions	Engineering

Products

Forum	Type
Test Equipment	Engineering
Thermal Imaging	Applications
Other Equipment & Products	Discussion
Vintage Computing	Discussion

With that, would there be a better way to make the various forums and sub-forums the same type, such that categories were more identifiable? Clearly there are topics that can fall equally under Electronics->Repair and Products->Test Equipment.

One of the drivers for splitting a forum is whether there is too much volume in that forum that falls into distinct enough categories. The complement is if there are multiple forum areas that have equal relevance to a topic.

With this as guidance, one way to organize is consider an alternate structure such as:

Engineering

Forum	Type
Projects, Designs, and Technical Stuff	Engineering
Test Equipment	Engineering
Microcontrollers & FPGAs	Engineering
Metrology	Engineering
Manufacturing & Assembly	Engineering
General PCB/EDA/CAD Discussions	Engineering

Discussion

Forum	Type
Beginners	Discussion
Repair	Discussion
RF, Microwave, Ham Radio	Discussion
Other Equipment & Products	Discussion
Vintage Computing	Discussion

Applications

Forum	Type
Thermal Imaging	Applications
Renewable Energy	Applications
Open Source Hardware	Applications
Crowd Funded Projects	Applications

Now figure out which sub-forums within each category can be split or combined to be unique enough to be the clear option when the case gets to be ambiguous.

[EEVblog]

Look at it as each forum topic has a type, as in datatype. I'm limiting the number of types to some arbitrary and capricious set consisting of "Applications", "Discussion", and "Engineering".

From there, we have the top 4 main categories:

Category	Type
Electronics	Engineering
Products	Applications
General	Discussion
EEVblog	Discussion

So right from the beginning there is a partial type mismatch in the main topics. Now let's look at the Electronics and Products categories in more detail:

Electronics

Forum	Type
Beginners	Discussion
Projects, Designs, and Technical Stuff	Engineering
Repair	Discussion
Microcontrollers & FPGAs	Engineering
RF, Microwave, Ham Radio	Discussion
Metrology	Engineering
Renewable Energy	Applications
Open Source Hardware	Applications
Manufacturing & Assembly	Engineering
Crowd Funded Projects	Applications
General PCB/EDA/CAD Discussions	Engineering

Products

Forum	Type
Test Equipment	Engineering
Thermal Imaging	Applications
Other Equipment & Products	Discussion
Vintage Computing	Discussion

With that, would there be a better way to make the various forums and sub-forums the same type, such that categories were more identifiable? Clearly there are topics that can fall equally under Electronics->Repair and Products->Test Equipment.

One of the drivers for splitting a forum is whether there is too much volume in that forum that falls into distinct enough categories. The complement is if there are multiple forum areas that have equal relevance to a topic.

With this as guidance, one way to organize is consider an alternate structure such as:

Engineering

Forum	Type
Projects, Designs, and Technical Stuff	Engineering
Test Equipment	Engineering
Microcontrollers & FPGAs	Engineering
Metrology	Engineering
Manufacturing & Assembly	Engineering
General PCB/EDA/CAD Discussions	Engineering

Discussion

Forum	Type
Beginners	Discussion
Repair	Discussion
RF, Microwave, Ham Radio	Discussion
Other Equipment & Products	Discussion
Vintage Computing	Discussion

Applications

Forum	Type
Thermal Imaging	Applications
Renewable Energy	Applications
Open Source Hardware	Applications
Crowd Funded Projects	Applications

Now figure out which sub-forums within each category can be split or combined to be unique enough to be the clear option when the case gets to be ambiguous.

Interesting idea, have not thought about it like that before.

[EEVblog]

It's kinda looking like the No's still have it on this subject...

[tggzzz]

It's kinda looking like the No's still have it on this subject...

Personally I think that is right. It doesn't preclude splitting individual topics out in the future, with metrology being a good example.

[tv84]

Engineering

Forum	Type
Projects, Designs, and Technical Stuff	Engineering
Test Equipment	Engineering
Microcontrollers & FPGAs	Engineering
Metrology	Engineering
Manufacturing & Assembly	Engineering
General PCB/EDA/CAD Discussions	Engineering

Discussion

Forum	Type
Beginners	Discussion
Repair	Discussion
RF, Microwave, Ham Radio	Discussion
Other Equipment & Products	Discussion
Vintage Computing	Discussion

With this in mind where would we discuss Test Equipments ?

[xrunner]

Personally I think that is right. It doesn't preclude splitting individual topics out in the future, with metrology being a good example.

Can I be allowed to point out something please? I don't think it's "right" based on what you see there at all. 

That poll is almost meaningless because it doesn't reflect the membership as a whole. There are over 50,000 members. How do 66 members voting no against the majority voting yes + "Meh, whatever" + the other category make it "right"? The majority voted to CHANGE or don't care. I'm at a loss as to how you make an important decision like this based on that data.

The amount of people that voted that say Yes or don't care beat the No votes at 75, not counting the votes for category for everything. But even then, what does it mean? Nothing.

That poll in my mind doesn't mean much of anything. The thing to do is what is needed for the future based on an objective look at the situation, like some people have taken the time to point out, like Tomorokoshi, not what a very, very, VERY small amount of people "feel" like you should do. You should know as I do that any change will cause members to complain, even if it's based on an objective analysis of the requirements. As the site owner Dave has to be prepared to push back until they "get over it". This is only responding to the vocal few (the VERY VERY few)  and settling for the status quo.

66 members out of 50,000 voted No?

Meaningless.

Changing the situation based on an objective analysis of what's needed for the future?

Meaninful.

*** sigh *** back to Ebay I guess 

[taydin]

Non-trivial topics usually fit into multiple categories. For example, multimeter repair (T&M, Repair). Or measuring high frequency signals with an oscilloscope (Oscilloscopes, Metrology). The ideal way to deal with this is the use of tags, but of course this requires the cooperation of the OP to provide useful tags. But it is also possible to allow people to add tags to a post (maybe with a criteria of having a certain post count). That way, the topics of lazy members that didn't add tags can be made useful by the community.

[tv84]

66 members out of 50,000 voted No?

Meaningless.

Very good point!

Now, just imagine if this had been sub-categorized and Dave putted the poll in one of those sub-categories.

How much votes there would be? 1, 2... 3 ?   

The voting in the poll is a very good representation of how people deal with the threads/forum. As such, the 66 members are as representative as any other number regarding the people that have opened this thread.

[GregDunn]

 see that most of the tiny percentage of people who voted either want change or don't care.  The rest... don't care at all.   

The voting in the poll is a very good representation of how people deal with the threads/forum. As such, the 66 members are as representative as any other number regarding the people that have opened this thread.

No, they're only the ones who care enough to voice an opinion.  Obviously, the way most people deal with this forum is to use what's there and adjust to changes quietly.

[tggzzz]

Personally I think that is right. It doesn't preclude splitting individual topics out in the future, with metrology being a good example.

Can I be allowed to point out something please? I don't think it's "right" based on what you see there at all. 

Sigh. I think a "no" decision is the right decision, for the reason I gave.

I have zero interest in the merits or otherwise of various voting mechanisms. Decisions are made by those that turn up.

[xrunner]

Sigh. I think a "no" decision is the right decision, for the reason I gave.

I have zero interest in the merits or otherwise of various voting mechanisms. Decisions are made by those that turn up.

Sigh.  I think a "yes" decision is the right decision, for the reason I gave. Decisions are made by those that use objective reasoning and make the required changes.

No, they're only the ones who care enough to voice an opinion.  Obviously, the way most people deal with this forum is to use what's there and adjust to changes quietly.

Exactly.

The poll is skewed by human nature reactions regarding change, and vocalizing about things that people deem "bad". Have you ever looked at the complaints vs. kudos regarding any product or service (this forum is a service) on various sites on the internet? The complaints always are vastly larger than any kudos for most any products or services. Even products that you have experience with that you know are good designs. The good products that always have problems in a large sample size are the ones you see complaints about. If the service or product is OK - people are mostly quiet. But if it's a bad experience people will complain loudly.

Same for this situation. The people who dislike change will speak up, and the people who don't care won't. I'd bet a DS1054Z that if all that data could have been captured including people that read the poll and decided to go on about their business, you'd see that most people don't really care. What you are seeing is the vocal minority that do not want change. I've run forums and it's always like that. Always. It's just human nature.

These changes should be done after an objective analysis of the situation and careful consideration of the needs of the forum for the future. If, after that analysis, the forum needs a change, then you make the change for the objective reasoning you employed. You tell people the reason, and do it. They suck it up and after the complainers are done (by the vocal minority) we move on.

I just don't get making a decision for 50,000 members on a no vote of 69. It's no 69 and yes 59 out of 50,000 members. That difference is meaningless. That makes no sense at all.

Speaking of moving on ...

[bitseeker]

Ultimately, this is a decision by 1, not 1000 nor even 10. We, the minority of the membership who are participating in this thread, simply provide a variety of perspectives (both for and against) for Dave to potentially consider when coming to a decision.

The majority who don't participate nor provide feedback, well, that's kind of normal. There are a lot of single-digit and zero-posters in the member list, too.

Perhaps more importantly, it may not be simply a yes/no decision. There have been some interesting alternative solutions mentioned thus far.

[tv84]

see that most of the tiny percentage of people who voted either want change or don't care.  The rest... don't care at all.   

The voting in the poll is a very good representation of how people deal with the threads/forum. As such, the 66 members are as representative as any other number regarding the people that have opened this thread.

No, they're only the ones who care enough to voice an opinion.  Obviously, the way most people deal with this forum is to use what's there and adjust to changes quietly.

Greg,

The majority of the people that voted so far, don't want change.  One cannot add the indifferent to the group that we prefer!

IMO the poll result is secondary to the suggestions and arguments that are being written. Those should be the main driver for any final decision.

[xrunner]

Greg,

The majority of the people that voted so far, don't want change.

That's just flat-out wrong.

Voting no - 69

Voting "Yes" (under two conditions) and "don't care" all told - 85

So no, the majority voting are OK with change.

But as I said, It's a meaningless thing because close to 50,000 people didn't vote. It boggles my mind how anyone can use that data to keep from making objective changes for the good of the forum.

But, my mind is easily boggled I suppose. 

[tv84]

Voting "Yes" (under two conditions) and "don't care" all told - 85

So no, the majority voting are OK with change.

 

Why isn't 69 + 21 ? ? ? ? ? ? 

[xrunner]

Voting "Yes" (under two conditions) and "don't care" all told - 85

So no, the majority voting are OK with change.

 

Why isn't 69 + 21 ? ? ? ? ? ?

I give up - Scotty please beam me up now.

[Housedad]

Dave,  this site is your baby.  If you think it would make more sense to change it up, then think it through and just do it.  We who enjoy this forum are not going to run away for some small or even large changes.  The only way for anything to improve is to try it differently and see if it works.  Change it back and try something else later if it doesn't work out.  As for the ones that complain,  too bad.  They will get used to it.

As in everything in life, Go For It.

[EEVblog]

Perhaps more importantly, it may not be simply a yes/no decision. There have been some interesting alternative solutions mentioned thus far.

Correct, it's not a simple yes/no answer. if it was obvious better in respects than I'd just change it, but there are downsides.

[EEVblog]

It's kinda looking like the No's still have it on this subject...

Personally I think that is right. It doesn't preclude splitting individual topics out in the future, with metrology being a good example.

Yes, Metrology, RF and vintage computers etc were obvious ones to split out as they had essentially formed their own little enthusiast communities and were actually actively asking for their own section.

I don't really see the same with various different types of test gear. i.e. there are very few that just want to talk about scopes and no other test gear.

As I said in my OP, it's not because many people have been asking for it, it's more for outside appearances. e.g people hear about the EEVblog forum being THE place for test gear, and you come in and there is only one area for all test gear.

[tggzzz]

It's kinda looking like the No's still have it on this subject...

Personally I think that is right. It doesn't preclude splitting individual topics out in the future, with metrology being a good example.

Yes, Metrology, RF and vintage computers etc were obvious ones to split out as they had essentially formed their own little enthusiast communities

The infamous TEA thread is effectively that. Maybe split that out into a new subforum containing only that thread 

and were actually actively asking for their own section.

I don't really see the same with various different types of test gear. i.e. there are very few that just want to talk about scopes and no other test gear.

Yes, that's my view as well.

Key points are

• not to impede browsing, i.e. the Show unread posts since last visit,  Show new replies to your posts)
• not to impede search by on-site and external search engines; while possible, I find it a bit of a pain to do keyword searches for messages I've made)
• not to foul up bookmaks, i.e. to specific posts in threads with >1000 replies

As I said in my OP, it's not because many people have been asking for it, it's more for outside appearances. e.g people hear about the EEVblog forum being THE place for test gear, and you come in and there is only one area for all test gear.

Interesting viewpoint.

Is there some easy way the "landing page" could ease the intro with something like "known not only as the place for test gear, but also much more".

[bitseeker]

Yes, Metrology, RF and vintage computers etc were obvious ones to split out as they had essentially formed their own little enthusiast communities

The infamous TEA thread is effectively that. Maybe split that out into a new subforum containing only that thread 

and were actually actively asking for their own section.

Yes, TEA. Ever since it started making the top-10 lists, I've been contemplating its future and brought it up amongst the members a couple of times within the thread. There are certainly pros and cons to making it a sub-forum of Test Equipment or its own forum. However, the benefit of being able to have threads for different topics would certainly be welcome. It may be better to exist as a sub-forum of TE rather than a separate forum since it's TE-oriented.

Dave, what are your thoughts on how best to house the largest thread in EEVblog forum history?

I don't really see the same with various different types of test gear. i.e. there are very few that just want to talk about scopes and no other test gear.

Yes, that's my view as well.

Key points are

• not to impede browsing, i.e. the Show unread posts since last visit,  Show new replies to your posts)
• not to impede search by on-site and external search engines; while possible, I find it a bit of a pain to do keyword searches for messages I've made)
• not to foul up bookmaks, i.e. to specific posts in threads with >1000 replies

Having 301 redirects in place for that last point is also important for SEO. You don't want Google to get a 404 or end up on the forum home page when it crawls for threads that have moved.

As I said in my OP, it's not because many people have been asking for it, it's more for outside appearances. e.g people hear about the EEVblog forum being THE place for test gear, and you come in and there is only one area for all test gear.

Interesting viewpoint.

Is there some easy way the "landing page" could ease the intro with something like "known not only as the place for test gear, but also much more".

It would be nice to have tags for threads. To minimize chaos, they could be predefined rather than user-generated so thread starters could just pick the appropriate one(s). Then, if the different TE tags could be listed and clickable in the forum description or under it (like child boards are today), that would help with appearance and flexible organization without disturbing any thread URLs or "hiding" the variety of discussions in sub-forums.

A related, but somewhat different, approach can be seen in the VoIP forum on DSLReports. There, all VoIP discussions are in one forum. However, a thread can have a "Group" assigned to it. Doing so doesn't move the thread away from the main forum, however someone can click a group to see only the threads with that "tag" assigned.

Using real tags would have the additional benefit of being able to classify a thread with more than one.

[tggzzz]

Yes, Metrology, RF and vintage computers etc were obvious ones to split out as they had essentially formed their own little enthusiast communities

The infamous TEA thread is effectively that. Maybe split that out into a new subforum containing only that thread 

and were actually actively asking for their own section.

Yes, TEA. Ever since it started making the top-10 lists, I've been contemplating its future and brought it up amongst the members a couple of times within the thread. There are certainly pros and cons to making it a sub-forum of Test Equipment or its own forum. However, the benefit of being able to have threads for different topics would certainly be welcome. It may be better to exist as a sub-forum of TE rather than a separate forum since it's TE-oriented.

I've wondered that (as you can see above), but it is a self-contained ghetto of people chatting amongst themselves on thing that are usually related to electronics.

I haven't seen a decent reason, so I'm skeptical that splitting it out would benefit the wider EEVBlog Forum.

[bitseeker]

Hence the reason I haven't mentioned it beyond the thread before.

[SparkyFX]

It would be nice to have tags for threads.

That is a nice way to qualify content, give it more context and such - other than the subforum/category it is in. Helps with search too and are a good way to prepare or replace forum splits. So you could slowly introduce tags, at some point in time retag old threads and at some point in time move them all at once - or not move them. It has many benefits, as long as the tagging is applied, the amount of work stays the same to move to a different category, but in the case of tags the energy put in is conserved.

A related, but somewhat different, approach can be seen in the VoIP forum on DSLReports. There, all VoIP discussions are in one forum. However, a thread can have a "Group" assigned to it.

I know group tags from a different forum, they even lead to not index them in the search, so their content does not end up in the search results. This might sound harsh, but either content is important enough for a "question -> answer(s)" form and deserves its own thread/blog/faq/wiki article or it is "discuss!" kind of content. Under the assumption that people search for answers, the discussion might not be that valuable - forum internal search that is, google still finds it all, listing posts of users still works.

Another real problem was people answering by referring to use the search function (no results, no links). This means search results contain keywords (in the question) and the only answer is a reference to the search function. This is short of trolling  - on a big scale - it might not be ill intended, but becomes a problem. Next to it not being helpful at all.

Using real tags would have the additional benefit of being able to classify a thread with more than one.

It gives it additional context, allows filtering the view - in case you are a viewer and just want to look which topics there are or are overwhelmed by the variety. The worst thing that can happen is missing tags or wrong tags, but that is the same risk as with topic titles anyway.

I used to spend some time automatically qualifying ten+ years of threads (i think several 10k), meaning to automatically tag and sort them based on some regex-based threshold method (checking the first post only), but still needed to look over and hand sort and then automatically move them. I mean once exported to csv/excel that goes quick and it worked well, but that took a database with qualifiers in them (that in itself was crowd sourced and later curated, spiced up with external data). It was needed because category splits happened after several years of existence, but moving was too much hassle back then (the mod interface was slow and deep - per thread). So having a well fed database of qualifiers (here: test equipment) enables this kind of use.

[beanflying]

There is a simple addon for SMF for TAGS but getting users to add the information is always the issue 

http://custom.simplemachines.org/mods/index.php?mod=579

It would allow permissions to be set to allow others to suggest tags and the OP to edit them along with current or specialist moderators. Personally it goes against the KISS layout of the forum currently and may create an issue when they finally release 2.1.X (not sure if the Vion will be delivered first )

[Specmaster]

The way I view this is, its like an election, those with a view point either way, will if they hold strong views will vote one way or the other and the fact that 66 say no and is the winning vote so far might just reflect the fact that although this thread is very active, it just does not that many of the 50,000 or so members who are that interested in test equipment.

I think it should be treat just the same as any election, give the poll so long to remain open and on the point of closing it down, the option with the most votes wins and it really is my opinion that simple. If people cannot be bothered to vote then they don't have the right to complain either way.

[jklasdf]

What about labels/tags instead of separate subforums? Does the forum have the ability to support these?

[beanflying]

What about labels/tags instead of separate subforums? Does the forum have the ability to support these?

Read my last post only two back

[EEVblog]

Yes, Metrology, RF and vintage computers etc were obvious ones to split out as they had essentially formed their own little enthusiast communities

The infamous TEA thread is effectively that. Maybe split that out into a new subforum containing only that thread 

and were actually actively asking for their own section.

Yes, TEA. Ever since it started making the top-10 lists, I've been contemplating its future and brought it up amongst the members a couple of times within the thread. There are certainly pros and cons to making it a sub-forum of Test Equipment or its own forum. However, the benefit of being able to have threads for different topics would certainly be welcome. It may be better to exist as a sub-forum of TE rather than a separate forum since it's TE-oriented.

I've wondered that (as you can see above), but it is a self-contained ghetto of people chatting amongst themselves on thing that are usually related to electronics.

I haven't seen a decent reason, so I'm skeptical that splitting it out would benefit the wider EEVBlog Forum.

You can't really convert a thread into a forum section, they are different things.
Sure we could have a TEA forum section, and then does it have the one thread again?, or does it have multiple theads?
If it has multiple threads, how is it any different to the general test equipment discussion section already?

[tggzzz]

Yes, Metrology, RF and vintage computers etc were obvious ones to split out as they had essentially formed their own little enthusiast communities

The infamous TEA thread is effectively that. Maybe split that out into a new subforum containing only that thread 

and were actually actively asking for their own section.

Yes, TEA. Ever since it started making the top-10 lists, I've been contemplating its future and brought it up amongst the members a couple of times within the thread. There are certainly pros and cons to making it a sub-forum of Test Equipment or its own forum. However, the benefit of being able to have threads for different topics would certainly be welcome. It may be better to exist as a sub-forum of TE rather than a separate forum since it's TE-oriented.

I've wondered that (as you can see above), but it is a self-contained ghetto of people chatting amongst themselves on thing that are usually related to electronics.

I haven't seen a decent reason, so I'm skeptical that splitting it out would benefit the wider EEVBlog Forum.

You can't really convert a thread into a forum section, they are different things.
Sure we could have a TEA forum section, and then does it have the one thread again?, or does it have multiple theads?
If it has multiple threads, how is it any different to the general test equipment discussion section already?

Yes, yes, and yes.

Apart from those points, I see no benefit to splitting it out.

[colorado.rob]

I voted "leave it as is" but my preference would be be: move TEA to another category, combine all the EEVBlog DMM stickied threads into one thread or move them to a separate category, actively move all of the repair threads (e.g. "Replacing OLED screen on an Agilent U1253A Multimeter") to the Repair category.

Some of this can be fixed with just some active moderation.

[bitseeker]

Sure we could have a TEA forum section, and then does it have the one thread again?, or does it have multiple theads?
If it has multiple threads, how is it any different to the general test equipment discussion section already?

Exactly. Questions such as these are why I haven't mentioned it to you previously. It's a community within the forum, but still mostly about TE with some General Chat mixed in. So, we just continued with the mega-thread.

If there is more clarity one day, I'll officially bring it up.

[med6753]

Sure we could have a TEA forum section, and then does it have the one thread again?, or does it have multiple theads?
If it has multiple threads, how is it any different to the general test equipment discussion section already?

Exactly. Questions such as these are why I haven't mentioned it to you previously. It's a community within the forum, but still mostly about TE with some General Chat mixed in. So, we just continued with the mega-thread.

If there is more clarity one day, I'll officially bring it up.

I think it should be pointed out that the TEA thread is not a closed community. We encourage new folks to join the discussion. Yes, we talk test equipment from A to Z and at times venture off subject but we always discipline ourselves. What I like about it is that the regular contributors get to know a little about each other beyond the screen name. And as a group we are truly spread across the map. But as others have mentioned it's almost like meeting in a pub and talking our common hobby and having fun doing it. And yes, at times it leads to busting each other's chops and good natured ribbing. But that's what keeps me coming back everyday and checking in.       

[EEVblog]

I think it should be pointed out that the TEA thread is not a closed community. We encourage new folks to join the discussion. Yes, we talk test equipment from A to Z and at times venture off subject but we always discipline ourselves. What I like about it is that the regular contributors get to know a little about each other beyond the screen name. And as a group we are truly spread across the map. But as others have mentioned it's almost like meeting in a pub and talking our common hobby and having fun doing it. And yes, at times it leads to busting each other's chops and good natured ribbing. But that's what keeps me coming back everyday and checking in.       

I've rarely ventured into that thread, and wasn't really aware of how big it had gotten, or that it seems to have become a sort of chat room?

[tggzzz]

 

I think it should be pointed out that the TEA thread is not a closed community. We encourage new folks to join the discussion. Yes, we talk test equipment from A to Z and at times venture off subject but we always discipline ourselves. What I like about it is that the regular contributors get to know a little about each other beyond the screen name. And as a group we are truly spread across the map. But as others have mentioned it's almost like meeting in a pub and talking our common hobby and having fun doing it. And yes, at times it leads to busting each other's chops and good natured ribbing. But that's what keeps me coming back everyday and checking in.       

I've rarely ventured into that thread, and wasn't really aware of how big it had gotten, or that it seems to have become a sort of chat room?

med6753's characterisation is correct.

It is actively self-disciplined and mostly, but not entirely, related to test equipment. I haven't seen anything that leads me to believe that it will bring this forum into disrepute - quite the contrary in fact. I can't say that about some other threads elsewhere in the forum.

The frequent contributors to that thread are active in other parts of this forum, and are well aware of what makes this this forum tick.

My judgement is that you can rest easy

[bitseeker]

I think it should be pointed out that the TEA thread is not a closed community. We encourage new folks to join the discussion. Yes, we talk test equipment from A to Z and at times venture off subject but we always discipline ourselves. What I like about it is that the regular contributors get to know a little about each other beyond the screen name. And as a group we are truly spread across the map. But as others have mentioned it's almost like meeting in a pub and talking our common hobby and having fun doing it. And yes, at times it leads to busting each other's chops and good natured ribbing. But that's what keeps me coming back everyday and checking in.       

I've rarely ventured into that thread, and wasn't really aware of how big it had gotten, or that it seems to have become a sort of chat room?

Thanks, med, for contributing additional color to the picture!

Dave, TEA is more that just a chat room. It's a test equipment enthusiast community for EEVblog members who enjoy all aspects of TE including acquiring, collecting, restoring, modding, re-homing, chatting about, and of course, using them. Oh, and infecting others with inviting others to TEA.

There are a dozen or so regular members, several dozen part-timers, and lots of observers. I often see 30-50+ "guests" in the thread. We love test equipment and EEVblog is the place to be for TEA.

Here's a quick tour of the TEA House, the thread-that-acts-like-a-forum:

Original thread post

• Starts with a short description of TEA
• The Points of Interest section is maintained by me with deep links to posts in the thread about specific TE and teardowns as well as other topics. It serves as a substitute for a sub-forum so that the information isn't completely buried. Having TEA as a sub-forum would help me most with this aspect.
• Additional sections include the TEA Anthem, the Laws of TEA, the TEA Mascot, etc.
• Toward the end is the TEA Glossary of Terms, Conditions, Causes, and Effects. Those who are addicted to test equipment usually identify with many of them (and discover more as they participate in the thread ).

History

• For a short synopsis of how TEA started, check out this post: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/msg2199750/#msg2199750

[bd139]

I'd say it keeps us regular posters off the streets and out of trouble

I think it's mostly a celebration of the joy of getting hold of something none of us could afford when it was new for virtually nothing because it's old, broken or mangled and making it good again, with some diversions occasionally usually whining about the broken thing we've bought being broken some more by the carrier. All with photos of the gubbins.

Oh and some bizarre stuff occasionally.

[worsthorse]

I think it should be pointed out that the TEA thread is not a closed community. We encourage new folks to join the discussion. Yes, we talk test equipment from A to Z and at times venture off subject but we always discipline ourselves. What I like about it is that the regular contributors get to know a little about each other beyond the screen name. And as a group we are truly spread across the map. But as others have mentioned it's almost like meeting in a pub and talking our common hobby and having fun doing it. And yes, at times it leads to busting each other's chops and good natured ribbing. But that's what keeps me coming back everyday and checking in.       

I've rarely ventured into that thread, and wasn't really aware of how big it had gotten, or that it seems to have become a sort of chat room?

As a relatively new arrival to the TEA thread, I want to extend med's comment... of all the places I have interacted with others on the forums, the regulars on TEA have been the most welcoming. It is great to wander in and out of the conversations that happen there, get my questions answered, share the deals I find, and commiserate when the broke-ness of any particular treasure exceeds my capabilities. Where else would I find someone to be as jazzed as I am that I scored two working 8640Bs for a hundred bucks?   

One more thing... The discussions there have led me to follow and contribute to other threads much more often than I would otherwise; I am a lurker by nature.  Without a doubt, TEA is the reason I am so frequently on eevblog.

[0culus]

I think it should be pointed out that the TEA thread is not a closed community. We encourage new folks to join the discussion. Yes, we talk test equipment from A to Z and at times venture off subject but we always discipline ourselves. What I like about it is that the regular contributors get to know a little about each other beyond the screen name. And as a group we are truly spread across the map. But as others have mentioned it's almost like meeting in a pub and talking our common hobby and having fun doing it. And yes, at times it leads to busting each other's chops and good natured ribbing. But that's what keeps me coming back everyday and checking in.       

I've rarely ventured into that thread, and wasn't really aware of how big it had gotten, or that it seems to have become a sort of chat room?

It's way more than a chatroom. I'm a relative newcomer, but besides my electronics hobby I am a test equipment enthusiast. Nowhere else have I found a group of people who are as excited as I am about test equipment. Maybe the HPAK and TekScopes mailing lists, but they aren't as conversational as the TEA thread. It's a unique community within a community where all bitten by the TEA bug are welcome (and if you aren't bitten, you will be!!!  )

[xrunner]

I have been posting in the TEA thread almost since the inception. I like it because it allows me to be an enabler for members on the edge of pressing the Ebay "But it Now" button. I've always wanted to be an enabler.

Thank you bitseeker. 

[Cubdriver]

I'd say it keeps us regular posters off the streets and out of trouble

Alas, it causes my credit card no end of trouble...  (I don't think the floor joists in my house hold it in high esteem, either)

I think it's mostly a celebration of the joy of getting hold of something none of us could afford when it was new for virtually nothing because it's old, broken or mangled and making it good again, with some diversions occasionally usually whining about the broken thing we've bought being broken some more by the carrier. All with photos of the gubbins.

Oh and some bizarre stuff occasionally.

And let's not forget the occasional whining when what we bought turned out NOT to be broken, thus denying us the opportunity to repair it.  We're an odd lot, but we like us and always welcome fresh meat newbies to join us in our addicting enjoyable little corner of the forum Dave graciously provides.

-Pat

[Kosmic]

What make eevblog forum interesting (and popular I think) is mostly the peoples. This is particularly true for the TEA thread that kind of became its own thing with 32k posts and almost 1.4 million views.

Now for the question on How it should be organised, I don’t think that creating a lot of subcategories is necessarily going to help everybody keeping track of everything going on the forum. Might look well organized for a newcomer or someone looking for a specific information on a specific subject, but for the regulars I think it will make our life harder.

Going back to the TEA thread, might be interesting to see if the format of the forum could be modified or extended with something more dynamic? I’m thinking of something like Slack (but I’m not proposing to use Slack).

[worsthorse]

So I read through most of these posts and I still have to ask,  what is broke? 

Or if nothing is broken, maybe, what are we trying to improve? 

[bitseeker]

wch, the main issue that spawned this thread is the case where a visitor, who hears that EEVblog has the Internet's largest test equipment forum, arrives for the first time and sees that the TE section is just one forum of so many other electronics and other subforums. Granted, TE has 300K+ posts, which is huge. But one must look at that detail to notice.

The concept that was proposed inquired whether it would look better, work better, or otherwise be better if the TE forum was separated into sections by instrument type. Subsequent posts elaborated on pros, cons, alternatives, etc.

[beanflying]

Looking at where the current poll numbers are any changes made based on them would be the Test Gear equivalent of Brexit  The thing Dave has going for him is he is a benevolent Dictator 

Unless something is fundamentally and badly flawed in the layout of the Forum Categories the best option is always leave it alone or you will find out any gain will be minimal if any and the hit to the SEO and work needed to sort this Category out into the new ones overwhelming.

[worsthorse]

wch, the main issue that spawned this thread is the case where a visitor, who hears that EEVblog has the Internet's largest test equipment forum, arrives for the first time and sees that the TE section is just one forum of so many other electronics and other subforums. Granted, TE has 300K+ posts, which is huge. But one must look at that detail to notice.

The concept that was proposed inquired whether it would look better, work better, or otherwise be better if the TE forum was separated into sections by instrument type. Subsequent posts elaborated on pros, cons, alternatives, etc.

okay, got it. i won't wade into this one, though i think that are far more interesting improvements or feature additions that warrant more consideration. glad this is dave's decision. 

[SparkyFX]

I've rarely ventured into that thread, and wasn't really aware of how big it had gotten, or that it seems to have become a sort of chat room?

I know forums with these large threads as well, as long as there is no definite answer they simply grow.

Wouldn´t be a problem, but i also saw forum software that was not able to split parts off over a certain amount of posts, because the DB query took too long and therefore ran into timeout (point of view if this is a bug or if it needs to be solved). Which means any off-topic or spam can not be split off, just made invisible (whatever SMF allows) - viewing and posting was not impaired.
This sort of problem comes with a growing forum - next to access times and caching.

[Specmaster]

Dave, I think that TEA is fine just as it is, as many of my fellow members have already pointed out, it keeps us off the streets and out of trouble, and especially true for us oldies  . I belong to many forums and to be honest, I cannot even remember my username or login passwords for them as I use them that much, honestly but here I have zero problem remembering and can seen logging in many times daily. Since joining this forum, which I only discovered through watching your video blog, I have never felt such a warm and friendly welcome on any of the other forums as I did here. It took me a while to discover the TEA thread, infact I was invited to join in here because of my addiction to test equipment in general and as soon as I had a sniff around the TEA thread, I have become hooked on it and have made many friends as well. It is a thriving community in its own right and as has been said already, its like a clubhouse to us, we discuss all things here from the obvious test equipment and relative items right through to politics on the odd occasion and we never allow it to get to far out of hand, self regulating if you will.

We do all kinds of product tear downs and repairs and if we think its good enough that it might help others, we often start a new thread in the repairs section so that in it self gets stored in its own sub section / heading and other-times, Bitseeker will add it into his POI section.

Other forums are much more rigid in their approach and as such they don't tend to be much used as the EEVBLOG and TEA especially, I think of it like a family were care about each others problems and tales of woe and offer each support and advice if required etc. I agree with all the comments others have already made and say, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". 

[Echo88]

Test Equipment has about 340 pages. And due to the massive amount of posts per day, one would need to search a few pages each day to see discussions about devices one is interested in. Why bother to scan through 1 million scopes-posts, when youre only interested in high quality bench DMMs, vintage stuff or interesting specialized stuff from the 70ies. In the end i mostly dont bother to visit TM-Section because of its fast pace and the necessary combing to get interesting stuff and thats sad because theres gold buried somewhere in between.

[xrunner]

I really don't want to be a bother to anyone, and I realize I'm not the smartest person here by any stretch of the imagination. So please trust me when I say I don't understand when I say I don't understand something..

Why, on a general electronics for, do we now have seven separate computing categories?

General Computing
Embedded Computing
Programming
Security
Cloud Computing + IoT
Networking & Wireless
Vintage Computing

If that's deemed to be OK why then, can't we have separate test equipment categories like this -

Oscilloscopes
DMMs
Spectrum Analyzers
Frequency counters
RF Generators
Network Analyzers
Handheld test equipment
etc.

This is not even a mostly computing forum, and there are about a gazillion computing forums already out there. I truly do not understand the logic behind this. Here's the proclamation from the forum -

"This is the leading forum for test equipment reviews and teardowns ..."

If I'm shown the reason, and I still don't understand, I'll go quietly back to the TEA thread and keep my mouth shut.

But believe me when I state this: I do not understand. 

[wilfred]

Dave, TEA is more that just a chat room. It's a test equipment enthusiast community for EEVblog members who enjoy all aspects of TE including acquiring, collecting, restoring, modding, re-homing, chatting about, and of course, using them. Oh, and infecting others with inviting others to TEA.

If you say inviting others to TEA too often, I'll start calling you collectively TEApots. 

[tggzzz]

Test Equipment has about 340 pages. And due to the massive amount of posts per day, one would need to search a few pages each day to see discussions about devices one is interested in. Why bother to scan through 1 million scopes-posts, when youre only interested in high quality bench DMMs, vintage stuff or interesting specialized stuff from the 70ies. In the end i mostly dont bother to visit TM-Section because of its fast pace and the necessary combing to get interesting stuff and thats sad because theres gold buried somewhere in between.

Unlike when I was young, the key skill nowadays is quickly determining what to ignore.

Splitting into curated categories was the USP of Yahoo! when it started.

Searching uncurated content was the USP of Google when it started.

There are good reasons why the Yahoo! concept failed and the Google concept succeeded, and they are valid in this case too.

Consider: having many categories can only help you define where stuff isn't: most interesting stuff could be equally well be placed into many categories. Example: if you have a problem with a graphing 6.5digit DVM, which single category would you put it in? Repair, metrology, DMM, etc.

[Specmaster]

Test Equipment has about 340 pages. And due to the massive amount of posts per day, one would need to search a few pages each day to see discussions about devices one is interested in. Why bother to scan through 1 million scopes-posts, when youre only interested in high quality bench DMMs, vintage stuff or interesting specialized stuff from the 70ies. In the end i mostly dont bother to visit TM-Section because of its fast pace and the necessary combing to get interesting stuff and thats sad because theres gold buried somewhere in between.

Unlike when I was young, the key skill nowadays is quickly determining what to ignore.

Splitting into curated categories was the USP of Yahoo! when it started.

Searching uncurated content was the USP of Google when it started.

There are good reasons why the Yahoo! concept failed and the Google concept succeeded, and they are valid in this case too.

Consider: having many categories can only help you define where stuff isn't: most interesting stuff could be equally well be placed into many categories. Example: if you have a problem with a graphing 6.5digit DVM, which single category would you put it in? Repair, metrology, DMM, etc.

Quite right and as Dave told me in a reply, Google is your friend as it searches through our forum and finds key words, so the best way of locating anything within our forum is to use Google and restrict Google to just look at our forum (quite how to do that, I'm not sure, but there must be a way hence Daves reply).

If anyone knows how to do that perhaps they might share it here for all to see and if it is made a "sticky" everyone can see it and then there is zero need to do anything, but leave the forum exactly as it is. If it isn't broken, leave it alone.

[Fungus]

the best way of locating anything within our forum is to use Google and restrict Google to just look at our forum (quite how to do that, I'm not sure, but there must be a way hence Daves reply).

Just add "site:eevblog.com" to the query.

(without quotes, obviously)

[beanflying]

the best way of locating anything within our forum is to use Google and restrict Google to just look at our forum (quite how to do that, I'm not sure, but there must be a way hence Daves reply).

Just add "site:eevblog.com" to the query.

(without quotes, obviously)

Just be lazy and have the new search box in the top right type that for you 

[xrunner]

If the best way is to use Google then why were all the extra computing boards just added? I'm still confused ... 

[Specmaster]

If the best way is to use Google then why were all the extra computing boards just added? I'm still confused ... 

Maybe I misunderstood what Dave actually meant then because I suggested that we just needed a better search facility, and he replied the best way is to use Google and tell it to just search the forum 

[bitseeker]

If the best way is to use Google then why were all the extra computing boards just added? I'm still confused ... 

I don't know. When were all those added? Recently? I usually start from the "new replies" page, so I rarely look at the forum home page.

I concur that for "the largest test equipment forum on the internet," the forum home page doesn't represent it well.

[xrunner]

I don't know. When were all those added? Recently? I usually start from the "new replies" page, so I rarely look at the forum home page.

Only yesterday as far as I can tell. 

I concur that for "the largest test equipment forum on the internet," the forum home page doesn't represent it well.

I guess I'll quit while I'm ahead. I just do not understand all of this. If Googling is the answer why add more forum boards. And if we are adding more forum boards, then why not more categories for Test Equipment?

Or - why not both? Just because there are more boards doesn't mean people can't still search for topics.

Like I said, Greater Minds than mine are at work on this, I will defer to their wisdom and go back to where I belong. 

[bitseeker]

It may be better to wait for the dust to settle as speculating during construction may not be optimum for understanding.

[Specmaster]

the best way of locating anything within our forum is to use Google and restrict Google to just look at our forum (quite how to do that, I'm not sure, but there must be a way hence Daves reply).

Just add "site:eevblog.com" to the query.

(without quotes, obviously)

Just be lazy and have the new search box in the top right type that for you 

Oops I hadn't noticed that, good tip, thanks bean.

[joeqsmith]

There are basically only five areas I use on this forum.  T&M, Projects, Repairs, once in a while the Beginners and General.     

I used to pan to the bottom and select General.  Being a creature of habit, I now end up in some other General area.