TinySA Ultra launched

[Bicurico]

Hi,

Erik has (finally) launched the TinySA Ultra, which features a bigger 4" screen and increased frequency range.

More info on his webpage: https://www.tinysa.org/wiki/

And Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@ErikKaashoek

The device can be ordered, but will only be available for shipping on the first december week.

Ordered one to be my xmas present...

Regrads,
Vitor

[Mechatrommer]

is this it? https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004934403303.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.main.5.8f4d534bS6Xbjo&algo_pvid=3af05e74-5c62-40fd-8dfa-11a24b2764d7&algo_exp_id=3af05e74-5c62-40fd-8dfa-11a24b2764d7-2&pdp_ext_f=%7B%22sku_id%22%3A%2212000031071230923%22%7D&pdp_npi=2%40dis%21USD%21119.0%21119.0%21%21%21%21%21%40211bea6216687696035216601d0746%2112000031071230923%21sea&curPageLogUid=WmPUnfd3PeIY

[Bicurico]

Yes, seems correct.

On the TinySA Wiki you get directl links to official resellers. This is important because there are tons of clones, at least of the first TinySA model. These have inferior filters.

[BillyO]

Does anyone have an experienced opinion on this unit?

My needs are such that I cannot justify spending $1,400+++ for an SA, but I can justify the price of this.

[Bicurico]

It works according to specs.
If it is useful for you depends on your use case.

[shakalnokturn]

Do I really need it?
No, but now I know it exists I'm going to want it enough to need it...

[BillyO]

Did you read my mind?

[aristarchus]

Just received a TinySA Ultra from Eleshop.

To me it looks amazing what it does considering its size and cost.

Got a DSA815-TG and did not consider buying the previous TinySA.
Now with the Ultra, appart from a SA up to 5.34G it has also a signal generator to those frequencies and I could not resist   
And it can go beyond 5.34G up to 20G by using harmonics.
Its firmware looks pretty polished and it has also an external windows application if you want to control it via a PC, it gives more screen resolution and measure points this way.
It came with an included 32G microSD for data storage/screen captures.

So far so good.

[Bicurico]

Again, read the specs. The precision varies according to the higher bandwidth being enabled. This is why Eric, the developer, choose to have it activated via a password, to make sure people understand the pros and cons of higher bandwidth. It does use harmonics to feed the mixer.

But no doubt it is the SA with the best price/function relation.

[pascal_sweden]

Honestly, I can not find any reference to a reseller on the official TinySA Wiki website.

Or do I miss out on something?

On the TinySA Wiki you get directl links to official resellers. This is important because there are tons of clones, at least of the first TinySA model. These have inferior filters.

[aristarchus]

Honestly, I can not find any reference to a reseller on the official TinySA Wiki website.

Or do I miss out on something?

On the TinySA Wiki you get directl links to official resellers. This is important because there are tons of clones, at least of the first TinySA model. These have inferior filters.

https://tinysa.org/wiki/pmwiki.php?n=Main.Buying

[4thDoctorWhoFan]

Honestly, I can not find any reference to a reseller on the official TinySA Wiki website.

Or do I miss out on something?

I just received my Ultra from the Zeenko store on AliExpress. Got it in about 2 weeks.  The price was cheapest around.

[13hm13]

Got mine. Seems to work fine. But very slow performer all around.

[13hm13]

The TinySA-Ultra is being fed a 1k sine wave.
Span is 0hz to 10khz, with start 0hz, center of 5k. stop 10k.

Why does the trace begin with that HUGE spike at 0hz at the Left hand margin ? (If I chose another Start freq,, say 200 hz, same spike at that Left hand margin)

[gf]

According to the specs, maximum input level is 10 dBm. If I can see that correctly in the photo you feed a 5V amplitude into the spectrum analyzer Do not destroy your tinySA!

[baldurn]

Why does the trace begin with that HUGE spike at 0hz at the Left hand margin ? (If I chose another Start freq,, say 200 hz, same spike at that Left hand margin)

You are operating outside the range of the device. It does not go lower than 100 kHz and is not ment for audio frequencies.

It is normal for many spectrum analyzers to show a spike near DC frequencies. This is an artifact and not true measurement.

Beware you are at the limit of input power. Max is +18 dBm peak to peak which equals 5V or 1.7V rms. I would stay below 1V.

[13hm13]

3.3v - 5v is std TTL logic voltage on my devices.
Maybe input current is the more worrisome factor?

It's a bit strange that a mass-market device like NanoSA would not allow 5v input. Or have built-in protection (or warning messages) if ran into such limits. Yes?

If not, how does one "safely" probe IC pins that are at 5v TTL? Use a probe with resistor?

BTW: The 5v amplitude is default on many Signal Gens like the budget Kollertron in my photo.

[gf]

See https://tinysa.org/wiki/pmwiki.php?n=Main.HomePage

...
Max input level +10dBm. Do not destroy your tinySA
...

Use an attenuator, say 20dB.

[13hm13]

The dB value should also incorporate current somehow, yes?
I measured the output of the Koolertron sig-gen directly measuring current into my Fluke 87 dmm.
At 5.0v amplitude , 1k (similar to my photo) , I read 211 uA. Micro amps. How can 211 micro-amps fry the TinySA?

[switchabl]

The TinySA is an unconventional design that makes quite a few compromises compared to a "proper" one. That is what makes it possible to have a useful SA at all at this price point and in this form factor. The maximum input level is one of them (high minimum RBW and lack of proper image rejection in the high band are others).

If you want to look at larger signals, you need to add an attenuator (for 50 ohm sources) or you could try making your own 10x or 20x low-Z probe from some coax and a 450/950 ohms resistor. I think this has been discussed a few times on the forum.

[13hm13]

I have the TinySA ULTRA which has different specs:
https://tinysa.org/wiki/pmwiki.php?n=TinySA4.Specification
Note +/- 5v input.

I am not planning on using TinySA Ultra for anything other than a sig gen or ttl voltage (IC pins).
I'm not into HAM or radio/wireless applications.
The Ultra was supplied with some accessory cables and adapters but no attenuator.
I don't think Tiny  would have put out a device that is not robust enough to handle a std. signal gen. The warnings are for higher power applications (HAM, wireless, etc).

I also own a NanoVNA, all used w/o attenuator.

All that said,   10-30 attenuator(s) would be a good addition to any SA kit.

[Slh]

My understanding of RF equipment is based on the last 4 months with a nanovna and tinysa so some of this might be wrong...

The spec short term peak +20dBm with 30dB attenuator implies that when you have the internal attenuator enabled then you can put up to 100mW into the tinySA ultra. If you don't have the attenuator enabled then it has a separate +6dB which is more like 5mW.

The tiny sa ultra has an input impedance in it's working specified range of 50 ohms.

I expect that it has an AC coupled input which is how it can support the max DC +/-5V.

You're supplying a peak  sine wave of +/-5V which would give around 200mW  of power into a 50 ohm load like the tinysa ultra. So double the peak short term rated power.

If it's undamaged the I expect that you've got away with it because the high pass filter on the input is >10kHz so, if the capacitor is first, it attenuated everything for you.

Spectrum analysers are designed to measure very low signals over a very wide bandwidth. Unfortunately, this is incompatible with a very robust input so users are expected understand the specifications before they use them. Fortunately, the great thing about the tinySA and tiny SA ultra is that they are cheap enough to make mistakes with. Expensive spectrum analysers are also not robust and you would not be feeling good if you blew up a £20k one...

The warnings are for any source. If you set your signal generator to 100kHz, +/-5V then I expect that you would definitely have damaged it.

[rteodor]

I don't think Tiny  would have put out a device that is not robust enough to handle a std. signal gen.

An SA has to operate with very very small signals like -110 dBm. Combine this with a very large frequency spectrum and you get a huge operating area where the performance is critical.
Just about any protection device on the input would severely reduce that performance in the small signal area and nobody wants that. It is just simpler and much cheaper for every user to understand that spectrum analyzers and attenuators goes hand in hand.

All that said,   10-30 attenuator(s) would be a good addition to any SA kit.

What attenuator a user would need is a wild guess. What power ? What frequency range ? What quality and price ? Not a bad idea but there are so many options.

[aristarchus]

The TinySA-Ultra is being fed a 1k sine wave.
Span is 0hz to 10khz, with start 0hz, center of 5k. stop 10k.
...

Some of the specs of TinySA Ultra (from https://tinysa.org/wiki/pmwiki.php?n=TinySA4.Specification )

======
Spectrum Analyzer spec:

    Input frequency range from 100kHz to 800MHz in normal mode and up to 6GHz with ULTRA mode enabled
    Input impedance 50 ohm when input attenuation set to 10dB or more.
    Selectable manual and automatic input attenuation between 0dB and 31dB in 1 dB steps when LNA not active
    Maximum +/-5V DC input
    Absolute maximum input level of +6dBm with 0dB internal attenuation
    Absolute maximum short term peak input power of +20dBm with 30dB internal attenuation
    Suggested maximum input power of +5dBm with internal attenuation in automatic mode
    For best measurements keep input power below -25dBm
...
======


1KHz is outside the 100KHz to 800MHz-5GHz spec, that means the instrument cannot show valid measurements in that frequency.  (even my Rigol DSA815-TG cannot work there, it has 9 kHz as lowest limit)
5Vpp in 50 Ohm is +18dBm.
Note the "short term peak input power" and that means you should not keep that measurement beyond a few seconds.

Also and most importantly, all the maximum ratings (V, dBm, etc) are for use with the internal attenuators enabled, that means you should always use it in AUTO or put the attenuation on manually, if you (just because you are curious) set the internal attenuation to 0 or enable the LNA and decrease attenuator, then the chances are you will damage your instrument.

[baldurn]

The dB value should also incorporate current somehow, yes?
I measured the output of the Koolertron sig-gen directly measuring current into my Fluke 87 dmm.
At 5.0v amplitude , 1k (similar to my photo) , I read 211 uA. Micro amps. How can 211 micro-amps fry the TinySA?

The dBm value is measured in milliwatts and can be converted to current or voltage is using Ohms Law. The input of the TinySA is 50 ohm.

Also you can not probe TTL input directly because 50 ohm will look like a short to most chips. Even if the instrument survives the circuit gets fried.

Spectrum Analysers are not usually used to probe TTL like that. The usual case for checking digital circuits with a SA is for EMI compliance. This is done with a contactless probe. Basically just a coil of wire that is brought near the chip. This picks up enough signal that you can view it on the SA.